October 20, 2023 • 45 mins
Surprise! We’re back to share our extended interview with Alison Arngrim, aka everyone’s favorite mean girl: Nellie Oleson. She’s a powerhouse when it comes to keeping the Little House legacy alive, from her marathon re-read of the books on Facebook Live during the pandemic, to attending events at the Laura Ingalls Wilder homes and fan conventions across the country, to using her celebrity for meaningful activism. Beyond all that, she’s simply a delight and we hope you enjoy the interview!
Read Alison Arngrim’s memoir, Confessions of a Prairie Bitch
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, Emily, Hello Glennis.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We're back. We're back.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Happy fall.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Yeah, it's funny to be talking for Wilder in the
Fall because it's not a road trip season anymore. It's like,
but it is sit in your room, listen to podcasts,
and I'll then maybe watch Little House on the Prairie
on your TV season.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's definitely cozy season.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I was just thinking, it's a little over a year
ago that we drove to Mansfield, Missouri for the Wilder
Days Festival.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
That's true. A year since you heard pause Fiddle and
your life was changed.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
A year since I heard pause Fiddle, and we then
subsequently went to Graceland.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Made our pilgrimages. So we're dropping a.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Surprise bonus episode because someone in the comments somewhere, maybe
more than one person actually, in various forms of request,
asked us to all cap release all the interviews, which
I think is a solid request because we did so
many amazing interviews for the podcast that we have like
(01:06):
a wealth of bonus material. And this interview we did
with Alison Arngrim, who is the actress obviously who played
Nellie Olsen in the television show, was I think one
of our first interviews wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It was.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It was kind of right after we got back from
that Mansfield road trip, which was our last trip, and
we were starting to put all of our tape together
and start collecting all the extra interviews we needed, and we.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Started thinking about the TV show.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Allison's name had come up at so many of the
sites that we knew that she was the first person
we had to talk to.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
People loved her at every one of the houses.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Everyone who'd worked with her, everyone who'd met her raved
about her, which I'm not surprised by. But she was
just a delightful interview. We could have talked to her forever.
I would just say, when we conducted these interviews, it
wasn't with the idea that the full interview would be aired.
So they are, while wonderful, you're getting a rough You're
(02:05):
getting a rough, behind the scenes cut, which does not
diminish from the intelligence or charm or insight that Allison
brings to.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
This And something audience should also know going into this
is most of the cast of Little House. I've written memoirs,
Allison's memoir Confessions of a Prairie Bitch. Is am I
going to offend everyone by saying it's the best one.
It's very very good. It's very good about her and
about her time on Little House and tells you a
lot of things you wouldn't otherwise know.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
No, absolutely, it's so personal, it's so gripping, it's so funny,
and it's really intense. She talks about the sexual abuse
she suffered from a family member, and so keep that
in mind if you're listening to this. We do touch
on that in the interview, and if you haven't read
Confessions of a Prairie Bitch, I would highly recommend listening
(02:58):
to the audiobook because she reads it and it really
is I think, I say at the beginning of this interview,
and when we first spoke to her, I had just
finished listening to it and felt like I'd been with her,
Like it's so wonderfully done, and she's so wonderful and
had so much to say, not just about the television show,
but also about lour Ingles Wilder and her legacy and
(03:19):
the real life version, which if you've listened to the
podcast you've heard some of her insights on that.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
But again, this is the full deep cut.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, we hope you enjoy it, and we've gotten a
lot of messages from all of you about who you'd
want to hear from, so maybe we'll do more of this.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Everyone has gone off to new projects, but hopefully we'll
be able to keep releasing these every month or so
because we definitely have plenty of amazing material from so
many amazing, generous people.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So thanks for.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Listening, and thank you everyone for your feedback and the
reviews you're leaving on Apple's. We're very grateful and continue
to be very proud of this podcast.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So proud, so happy with it, excited to bring you
guys more, and we hope you entrew the episode.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
Okay, Alison, I'm Glynnis.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Hey Glennis.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
I'm so it thrills that you're hearing over the Moon.
I was re listening to your book. I was listening
to the audio version, so I feel like I've been
living with you.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Oh do you like it?
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
My god, because it's like when I wrote it, people
read it and said like, wow, it's like I can
hear you in my head.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
God.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I hope you're doing the audiobook. I know I did
the audio book the way. Yep, that's exactly what I
thought it would sound.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
I'm sure you hear this all the time. It was
like tapped into some childhood part of my brain that
had such a strong relationship with the show that it
was both like eight year old me was listening to
it and present day me was listening to it at
the same time, and it was really powerful. I am
fascinated by so much about you, and also obviously about
your relationship to the show. But just to start, can
(05:01):
you briefly walk through your origin backstory and how you
came to acting and how you came to Little House.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, I am a crazy ex child star. My whole
family were in show business. I mean literally even my
aunt and uncle. My aunt was a soprano, my uncle
played the violin. My mother was the voice of Gasper
the Friendly Ghost. My father was managing Liberaci. It was crazy.
So everyone's in show business. So I started working when
I was about five six years old, commercials, little shows.
(05:33):
I did a movie when I was ten, And the
funny part is after I did the movie, I wasn't
working a lot, and my father's a manager, sat me
down and said, you know, you may never work again,
or you may not work to you're an adult, or
you might never work again at all. We don't know.
And then like six months later I got little huse
than pre I read for the part of Laura. I
read for the part of Mary. Laura Ingles was like
(05:53):
the search for Scarlett O'Hara for eight year olds. I
mean everyone the world, right, But of course Melissa go
nailed it. So I come back and there's this part
of Nellioles. I had not read the books. I did
not read the books till after I got the show,
so I was clueless. And I come in and I
see this Nelliolson character and I start reading this and
that's when I turned to my father. It's like this girl,
(06:14):
said total then and I read it for him and
he started laughing. He said, don't change it. Please put
the pages down, don't look at him. Go in and
read it exactly like that. And I did. And there
was Michael Landon, Kat mcgrae and the producers and I
read it and they laughed hysterically, and then they said
to do that one part again and a goodly child actor.
I said, yes, what do you want me to change
(06:36):
and they said nothing. Has read the thing about the
house again because the my home speech from the episode
Country Girls, and I read it again, and they laughed
their heads off and I was hired immediately. Which is
that a compliment to my acting or does that say
something about my personality? I have no idea.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
It's amazing to me when you said the my Home speech.
I haven't seen that episode in years, and I know
precisely what you were talking about, right.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's in your head, yeah, because it's like the best thing.
There's this one joke in my Home Speech. I do
not know that every eleven year old got the joke.
Maybe that's because I got the joke and I played
it for that. We have three sets of dishes, one
for every day, one for Sunday, and one for when
someone very special and important comes to visit, which we
(07:19):
have never even used yet. Hi, you live in Walda Grove,
The Queen ain't coming. You don't know.
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Anybody Aspirational dishes in Walnut Grove, Minnesota. And this leads into,
I think a much broader question. I'm sure you get
asked a lot, but why do you think the show
still resonates? I mean, it's on television right now. I
think it keeps the Hallmark Channel in business. It's on
TV around the world. Why is that.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, you have to say. I mean I literally wake
up in the middle of the night and go, somebody
somewhere is watching us the very right now. It's literally
because it's in every country on Earth. It's been dubbed
into every language. There's DVDs in every language. It's bananas,
and I've met people from like every country on Earth
who are like, oh, yeah, I've seen every episode. Was
that the guy near Sri Lanka they only got little
(08:09):
house in the prairie and lost in space. I said,
how confused about America? Were you? I've been asked this
about a million times that we've tried to figure it out,
and all of us from the show like why why.
I think that the problems of the Ingles are universal.
The majority of people on Earth don't actually have very
much money, and the Ingles live in like a two
(08:32):
room house with a whole bunch of kids and worry
if they're going to make it through the week. That's
really how probably eighty ninety percent of humans on the
planet are living in a tidy place with a lot
of children, wondering if they'll have enough to eat. And
this is how people, real people are living. And there's
a rich family in town at the store who give
(08:53):
them a hard time, and there's always a crop failure
or a blizzard or locusts, and they cling together and
make it through. That's reality. Did Dallas, The Dynasty, the
Fabulous shows were was it friends? With these people like
have no jobs and have three bedroom apartments in New York?
That doesn't really happen for maybe a tiny segment of humanity,
(09:14):
whereas little house people tune in and go, yeah, that's
pretty much it. When you look at the fact that
the books got published at the height of the Great Depression,
so people were like, oh, it was worse for the Ingles.
No matter how bad things are the Depression, the Ingles
have it worse and they're muddling through because there was
a recession in the eighteen seventies when that took place,
America was having recession and people were having a terrible time.
(09:37):
So then the books come out in the nineteen thirties,
and when does the show come out seventy four? Remember
whip inflation now in gas rationing, and you could buy
meat like every other day, whatever the heck that it
was a mess. We were having a terrible recession and
suddenly here's Charles Ingles saying the slate pencils up to
two pennies? Oh man, what are we going to do? Genius?
(09:59):
And here we are get When did the show like
explode in popularity again for the eight thousandth time? The pandemic.
We have an episode called plague, and an episode called
quarantine the anthrax, and all of us in the show
we're hearing from people on Facebook and email. It going.
I had no idea it was a huge connection with
the pandemic because people were home and they were frightened,
(10:21):
and they said, I need something familiar, and here it was,
and here were the Kles dealing with terrible and curable diseases.
So I think it's that these are the problems that
people really deal with. And it's a very emotional show.
So I always joke about how the French love it
because Charles' Ingkles he cries beautiful. It's an emotional show.
(10:41):
It taps right into that and people act like it's real.
It's really intense.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
I was really struck by your anecdote in the book
about being at a school function with Catherine McGregor and
someone coming up behind you and kicking you and then
you're opening anecdote about being at a fanfare and someone
walking up who it sounded like they're about my agent
saying I forgive you, and the intensity of it. Guess
the intensity of that connection must be overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It's it's mind blowing. I mean, we get the people
who come for autographs and sometimes they cry because it's
so intense to meet the person that you've grown up watching.
I was just a Knoxville, Tennessee use Fanboy convention and
it was Melissa Gilbert, Karen Grassley, and me, So you
can imagine how bananas people went and these were up
(11:31):
on these huge things and the line comes up today
and so people come on and they say, yes, you
come around, get a picture. And we've had this before,
Like I remember my husband Bob was with me during
one thing where we'd have people start shaking and I'd
go put my armor on from the photo and they
burst into tears. We'd have to get them together, like
wait a minute for them. So we had criers and
they all cried. Of course when they saw maw Karen.
They all cried at Karen's table. I had Kleenex at
(11:53):
my table because we're getting criers and I of course
could tease them and make to get them laughing, because
they'd come up and I go, uh uh, what's how
many is this? You are a number four? You are
the fourth crier of the morning.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I was like, how well we got Kleenex?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Come on?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Do you think? And so yeah, we talked about how
many criers we got in to day.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Who gets the strongest reaction from the fans? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I know Melissa Gilbert. Obviously it's Laura. She'd people just
go into a coma at the site. He's like, oh
my god, Laura. They just like flip out completely. A
lot of people don't think they're gonna be emotional. Then
they meet Ma and that voice and she sounds the same,
and she's so sweet. It's her. I've seen people really
lose it over Charlotte Stewart, Miss Beatle. We were at
(12:37):
an event and they're getting autographed. Charlotte's practically doing therapy.
I'm signing autographs. They turn around and she's holding this
guy's hand, going yes, I understand. He's like sobbing, hysterical.
I'm like, what is going on over there? She's like
it's like out of control. And then it's weird because
you know, she was in David Lynch's eraser Head and
on Twin Peaks and she was in Trimmers. So we
(13:00):
had all the horror people and like the Twin Peaks
people coming and the Little House people. It was like crazy.
I get obviously an extremely strong reaction. I get a
very different reaction. We all have our own like different ones.
And the women who are still in love with Almonzo,
poor Dean Butler, he blushes, you know, he blushes. The
women come up and go he's still so handsome and
(13:20):
he's like like going breat red. So they're still in
love with him. So that's the whole world.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
That kind of ties into something I found really powerful
about the book. And you're writing about your upbringing and
the abuse at the hands of your brother, and I
was born in seventy four, the year Little House came out,
and so when you were writing about how in your
childhood the absent sort of ABC after school specials or
a language around traumatic experiences with children, I was really
(13:49):
struck by how in the show you were doing some
of the craziest storylines in Little House that I think
people mock about. You know, it really goes what feels
like a little off the rails in terms of narrative
from time to time. But I was listening to your book,
I thought, oh, but in those episodes, it is really providing,
you know, an experience for kids who might not have
(14:09):
seen those experiences anywhere else on TV. Did that ever
strike you as sort of an amazing thing that you're
participating in a show that was sort of providing a
language or an experience for kids that wouldn't have otherwise
had access to it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, we did cover everything. Remember, it was so weird because, okay,
we're doing the eighteen hundreds, we're doing law, but it's
the nineteen seventies and the Norman Leer shows are on,
and there's all this cutting edge television talking about racism, sexism,
the women's movement, the drug problem, all this stuff is happening.
So we're actually technically doing it, but because it's the
(14:45):
eighteen seventies, it's going like whoosh over the heads of
anyone who would object, and other people are going, yes,
thank god they're covering. Is the Civil War soldier who
comes back and he has PTSD or shell shock should
be there and he's a to morphine This is the
same year when Vietnam veterans were coming home addicted to heroin,
(15:06):
and here we have a Civil War soldier with the morphine.
They did like, hello, how many people were living that episode?
The poor, the mother. So we were doing these episodes,
the women want the right to own property. We did
all these episodes. We had episodes about alcoholism, about drugs.
Even Albert, the teenage on morphine became a drug. The
(15:28):
good boy from the Good family going out on drugs.
This is what people were experiencing. We were showing all
of these things. We had child abuse, we had special abuse,
and of course the Sylvia episode, or as people do
refer to it, clown rape.
Speaker 6 (15:42):
I'm not laughing because it's funny, but that is the
way people refer to it.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's horrified. It's a very very disturbing episode, but again
a real thing that happens, and happened in the eighteen hundreds.
Because people will say, oh, back in those days, well
back in those days, all the same things happened and
things were terrible too. People dealt with it. And that's
why when you read like Pioneer Girl Laura's real autobiography
and see the little stories that they said, maybe not
(16:08):
put that in banks a Plump Creek. The things that
didn't make it into the children's books, you go, whoa, yikes.
And of course she was dealing with the same kind
of harassment and the threat of molestation and terrible things
happening around her. And so that's real life. We did
work all those things out, and a lot of things
that were covered on nineteen seventy shows like Family or
(16:30):
All in the Family or Maud we were sneaking them
in too, but everybody was in bonnets, so it was
somehow safe and okay, And of course Paul and ma
were there to help you deal with it.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Yeah, the line you said, I think something along lines
of Michael Lannon fleshed out characters that Laura only implied
in the book when you read Prairie Frizer, as you say,
pioneer Girl, this idea that she couldn't look some of
her traumatic experiences in the face, and the show was
able to depict them.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
The books, the Engles don't have a son, and there's
no baby who dies. That doesn't happen in the books.
It happens in the show, but it happened in real life.
But the family was so traumatized by the death of
the little boy that they did not talk about it.
So all this stuff in the books is like whoa.
So then when they complain on the show, like, well,
(17:21):
on the show, will you change this? Have you read
the books? The timelines are different, and then when you
read the real timelines and the stuff she really went
through the ad sor but yeah, they could not bring
themselves to talk about the poor child, so she didn't
do that in the books, never spoke of it. And
then in the TV show, of course Michael said, what,
that's like the greatest episode ever. Of course we're going
(17:42):
to do that. And then of course Laura runs away
to a mountain. How she found a mountain in Minnesota?
I always say she ran across four states to like
Colorado or something. I don't know. She finds a big
mountain at that and then at the top of the
mountain is Ernest bourg Dye, who is apparently gone. And
(18:03):
that was my And it's one of the greatest episodes
ever made. It's one of the favorite episodes. It's Melissa's
favorite apps. It is one of the best episodes ever
of like Anything, and it is genius, and it totally works.
Speaker 6 (18:15):
That is always been my favorite episode. I watched it
not long ago, so remind me of my shepherd, the
Lord's Ice Shepherd. I would pay for a Little House
series of you doing the voiceover of like verbally annotating
the entire series as we go. Speaking of the books,
which you clearly you know are very knowledgeable about. When
did you come to the book?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, all of a sudden, show did the I guess
i'd better get the book where Charlotte said she got
a book at a rummage sale and I think it
was like The Long Winter, one of the really hard ones.
She said, I started reading this book and like, by
page three, Mary is blind and the dog dies. I said,
I said, what am I reading? This is awful? But
what yes, what happened? And then like years later, I
(18:58):
remember going back and rereading Plumb Creek in the first
onood Little House in the Big Woods, going oh, okay,
these are pretty good. And then of course the pandemic
hit and I said, I haven't read those things in years,
and I thought, well, I'm hab at home. Everything I
was doing was canceled, like, okay, I'm here for the duration.
Clearly I need to do something interesting and I thought, well,
(19:18):
go back, I have time. I'll go read the Little
House Books. And I had just taken a workshop where
this great acting teacher said, you know, people don't read
aloud enough at home. It's really good diction and training,
he said, But as an actor, he said, next thing,
you're sitting around the house, read a magazine out loud,
read to the cat. It's really good for you. And
then I went, everyone else is bored out of their minds.
(19:41):
I'll go on Facebook live and we'll all read them.
So I put on a bonnet, gone on Facebook and say, okay, guys,
the woman wrote nine books, and I will read them all,
starting with book one page for we can keep this
going as long as it takes. And I read the
Little House Books every freaking day. I read all nine books.
(20:01):
I read books about Laura, other books by Laura books,
all of Roses stuff, all the Bill Anderson stuff about Laura,
the history. I actually read Pioneer Girl with the footnotes live.
That took a while. I did Little House in the
Ozarks Laura Ingles articles that she wrote for like the
Missouri Rules the Papers. That was really fascinating because it's
(20:23):
nineteen sixteen through like nineteen twenty one. So she's talking about, oh,
the Spanish flu pandemic and World War One and women
getting the vote. It's like, what that mind blowed? So
we're reading that. A few cast members read stepped in
and read Dean Butler Corset. I got to do The
Long Winter. It's like Almonzo saves the town. It's my book.
So he read The Long Winter. And I completed six
(20:46):
hundred readings, and then I read the Little Books again.
So I read them twice, you know, And we just
finished recently six hundred, six hundred readings, and I said, guys,
I'm taking a break at six hundred. I'll be back,
but I think six hundred we can have a stop point.
But a lot of people said it really got them
through the pandemic. I got a commemorative thing from my
local senator for raising morale during the pandemic. Exploring the
(21:10):
works of lower Ingle's Wilder, increasing literacy rates, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Was it intense for you to be reading these books
by a woman who's act of her writing her life
down has such a huge impact on your life. I mean,
you are part of her legacy, and she is so
much of your history. It's I wonder what that experience
was like or if that occurred to you while you
were doing it.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, it always tas. I mean, well, you know, I've
been to Nelly's grave because you know, there were three
different people that made up Nellie Olsen. There's Nelly Owens
who's buried in Tillamookork, and I say, I've been to
my grave. It's Nellie Owen's curry. It's like, really weird.
I was like, thank you, thank you for being a
bitch so I could have a career. Oh so that
was so weird. But then Genevieve's Masters and Stella Gilbert
(21:56):
later were all kind of It took three people to
be as mean as me. So it's very bizarre. And
the pressure, I mean, it's something Melissa's talked about. We've
talked about the massive psychic weight and pressure that Melissa
Gilbert has had to live with being Laura Ingalls that
her brains have not just run out her ears. I
don't know how she stood it to these in and
(22:17):
it was very hard for she didn't visit the sites
for a really long time. So yeah, it's been really
heavy for and it is weird for me to read
these books and then especially then reading like the stuff
with the real stories, the behind the scenes stories, that
this really happened to this woman and she wrote this
stuff and then it blew up, which she couldn't believe.
And then that's a TV show she never anticipated, and
(22:39):
that and that the TV show Blake. You know, a
lot of shows came out in nineteen seventy four. There
was a lot of things on TV actually in the
nineteen seventies that were really huge. That aren't she reruns
her out on DVD and people are not watching now
that were huge at the time, and now it's like, oh, yeah,
that was on, but Little House in the Prairie is
(22:59):
what in the heck? So it's really weird for all
of us. But yes, that's why when I read the
k and then now having read them aloud twice, it
was surreal. But yeah, there is this whole weird connection,
that's why. And I've always been I like history. I've
always been fasctated with history. So then to be tied
into history in this really weird way and learn everything
(23:22):
I could learn about the real Nelly and genevieven Stella.
So for all of a sudden, she'd know we were
playing people who lived.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
I imagine you get this from fans. It's this nice
comforting thing to know that many of you are still
in touch with each other and reading about you, in
particular describing the set, which at least felt to me
like it became a safe space for you and your
friendship with Melissa Gilbert, and your impression of her was wonderful.
(23:51):
I mean, your impressions are wonderful. They're really you can
hear it.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So she told me when she, I said, her early
copy of the book, because she gave me a blurb,
but everything she said when she read, what would I say,
she could fit in my person sure way out or
she had to. She said she had to put the
book down because she went. She said she'd like completely
lost in gafad like almost peg. She was like, guess that, Yeah,
that was just like accurate.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
The thing I have to say I loved the most
was and I know you get asked all the time
about Michael Landon, who I obviously want to talk about
in a minute, but I thought it was really wonderful
when you said you didn't know if he loved you,
but he respected you Oh my god, yeah, yeah, you
say that, you know, none of you are in jail
or convicted. And even when you talk now about the
(24:36):
psychic weight of carrying these characters and the success of
this show attributing it that and how you shared dressing rooms,
but everyone shared dressing rooms and you were expected to
be on time, the manner with which you described this
whole experience feels that it was not just positive but
sort of strengthening.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, god, yeah, it was incredible, because okay, when when
you're a teenager, things like getting up early in the
morning and having dis linna not so much. And when
you're a teenager you have all this angst and anger
and you don't want to be told what to do.
And then in my case, having lived through abuse and bullying,
there's all this rage. I mean, that's the biggest problem
(25:14):
for people who are traumatized where physically or sexually abused,
is what do you do with all this anger is
just sitting there eating you up, and you got to
dump it somewhere. And so here I am on this
show where people quite nice to me, and I feel
quite safe, and I have this character who can scream
and go ye hey, and like let stuff out, which
is like, oh my god, that felt so good. So
(25:36):
that was incredible. But whatever was going on in my
life at the time as a crazy teenager, and whereas
other crazy teenagers might have on the weekend said hey,
let's do drugs or you know, because you know, I
was really into punk rock and going to the bands
and everything, I probably would have cut my hair short
dye of green and gotten at least one piercing somewhere
(25:56):
in my face. But I was like, ah, I gotta
be worked on money day. So there was always like,
gotta go to work, man, whatever insane ideas I might
have had or crazy things are going on, yes, but
we're going to work on Monday. I gotta be at
the SID so I gotta go to bed. Now, you
guys party, I gotta go because I gotta go to
bed because I gotta get up at like four in
(26:17):
the morning. And there was a structure and I knew
I was going to see these people, and I knew
what was going to happen, and I knew there's going
to be there and I had a job, and it
was like, yes, you are performing a function that is
needed that people need you to do. And you have responsibility.
It was an enormous amount of responsibility. And I said,
poor Melissa, she's like, you know, nine, carrying the show.
(26:40):
She's responsible for the employment of like four hundred people.
That was kind of a lot of pressure. But we
were all held responsible that we needed to do our job.
And I also had the marvelous advantage of you know,
I got paid, which is like, yeah, of course, But
a lot of teenage, a lot of child actors the money.
(27:01):
They never saw their money. There were even a few
kids on the show where the parents were whovered that money.
You're supposed to have a trust fund, so I had
a checking account at thirteen, So I was responsible. I
had a job. I got paid to do my job.
I saw the money from the job, and I also
saw all the expenses related to the job. So there
was a level of adult responsibility and learning about money
(27:23):
and business, and learning about show business and learning about
what goes on on a set and how to deal
with office politics.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
Yeah, and a lot of adult behavior. I mean, you
describe a complicated world in which you both feel very
safe but are exposed to a lot of adult behavior,
and that you write and have spoken about how close
you and Alyssa Gilbert are and yet you're playing foes
on screen. Was that ever confusing as a kid or
was it fun?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Oh? It was so much fun. Well, I said the books.
At one point it was like, you know, therapy with
Pataca bats, you know, you get out all the hostilities.
We thought it was so funny because you bonded right away.
And then the idea that regularly every few episodes we'd
hit each other in the face was like, it's like awesome,
And it was funny because like the very first fight scene,
they were very careful and there was a stunt girl
(28:10):
to do one of the falls so I wouldn't hit
my head. But like after that they went and we
pretty much were choreographing our own fights and they just
didn't need stunts for that. The mud fight's all us.
They're stunk of that, the famous mud fight. They're like, yeah,
you guys got this whatever, and they're just like, do
do what every the hell you want to do? And
(28:30):
we did, and we had so much fun, and we
thought it was so funny to play these mortal enemies
and do all this terrible stuff. But it was weird
because these scenes, right me saying things, and she's crying.
We're going out for sloopees later at seven eleven. It's like,
so weird.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
How did you carry the negative response to Nelly in
real life? It feels like it must have been overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It was really bizarre. But I'm weird. I have a
very warped sense of humor, as you may have noticed
having read my book, and I find it's a great
survival mechanism. Way you one of my therapists once we're
talking about that, I said, well, isn't humor just a
defense mechanism? And she said, yeah, who the hell ever
said you're not allowed to defend yourself. So it's like, yeah,
(29:32):
it's a good defense mechanism. Great, go with that. See yeah, No,
having a warped sense of humor is good. So I
have a very peculiar sense of humor. And I also
always liked villains. I talked about that I would watch
the movies as a kid. It's like Captain Hook Yeah,
cool man. And I liked villains. Oh God, I love
Vincent Price, my hero Vincent Price, and even now, Sir
(29:53):
Anthony Hawkins, I adore villains and things. So being a villain,
I had a different attitude of I was like, hey,
the villain, so that was a badge of honor. That
was cool.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Did you ever go through a period I mean you do.
I want to in a minute talk about all of
your advocacy work, but just before we get to that,
did you ever try and distance yourself from Nelly with
Did you go through a period of time where you're like,
I want nothing to do with the idea of Nellie Olsen,
I'm my own person. Because you seem now to have
such a close relationship with the fan base, we heard
on our trip over and over again how much people
(30:25):
adore you. You personally heard them pretty much, yes, But Alison,
we heard pretty consistent like of you. This is obviously
a competition, but we heard about you consistently over and
over again from everyone at all of the sites. So
I'm but I wonder, like, was there to be a
child star so strongly associated with one character. Did you
go through a period where you're like, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Bad, you get me away from brief It was like
it was right after the show in the eighties. So
I talked about the book in the eighties, we were
all supposed to beautiful and sexy. It was all like
the sex comedies and the porkies and the as I said,
every part I would offered in my early twenties was
a cheerleader, naked or dead or a combination of all three,
(31:07):
and it just didn't work for me. So there was apps,
and there's a million bikini photos and posters and swimsuit
photos out there and the fans are all finding them.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Somebody in Facebook just the other day went what the
heck is this and put up like all my swimsuit
pictures are like huh. So there was this whole campaign
with my management and everyone Deverd's management. We are young, beautiful,
modern sexy women. We are not children anymore. We've all
grown up. We're off the show. We don't live in
the eighteen hundreds, we don't wear bustles. We can be
on Dynasty in a hotel and Fantasy Island look at us,
(31:39):
and so get out that swimsuit girls and take those pictures.
So yeah, we're doing that, which was like fun, you know, sorta,
But yeah, there was a period it was like, how
do we make this stop? Because I want to work
and be play different parts. And then there were times
where it was just kind of like because it was
so never ending. It was every single day, and it
(31:59):
was like, God, it's like gonna stop anytime soon, maybe
no escape. And it's also Little House gets mentioned in
other books and TV shows and movies, so there's like
no escape and to the point where you can't okay,
the movie network in the movie Network faint down a way.
So that was I was like fifteen sixty and I
(32:20):
went with friends and we went to see Network and
I'm thinking, la la, la, la la, I am not
doing anything to do with the Lastnabry. Today. I'm out
with my friends as a normal person, and there's a
scene where the woman is complaining about their reality show
about the Revolutionary group, and she said, the opposite the
Monday night football another channel and Little House on the
damn Prairie, and my friends will go anything like slumping
(32:45):
down on my train. It's just like no wonder. I
was reading a book the other night and it was
like just something that well, you know, like the Mellie
Olsen curls, and I'm like, God, there's just just never,
just no escape. I can't go anywhere where it's not there.
And so at some point in the late eighties and
especially early nineties, because there was a big another wave
because we had the VH I think it was the
(33:05):
DVDs came out in the nineties and all Hellborough clothes
and we had more cable, had more nickelodeon and stuff.
At some point it was they can't beat him, join
them thing finally kicked in. It's like, what the hell,
what am I going to do? And I realized also
because I look kind of weirdly the same, it's the
bone structure. I never got a nose job, and this
(33:25):
is kind of still it's the and a lot of
people say, well, you look the same, and I go, oh,
thank you. And at some point it was like, can't
beat them, join them, and I also said it was
I said, well, okay, I would have to literally have
massive plastic surgery, dye my hair, and move to a
country where the show isn't shown. And I don't know
what country that is because I'm getting mailed from Russia
(33:46):
and China now, so I don't know where they're not
showing this where someone isn't good to going. Then you
know what it said, it's good for that least, So it's
there's no getting around it. So it's like, well, what
are you gonna do? You can spend your whole And
I also saw all the interviews would many, many, many
celebrities who try to get away from their old show,
so they have to spend a portion of the interview
(34:09):
saying no, I don't want to talk about the show
that I was onor that character. Now, how many minutes?
Then how many interviews a day do so? How many
minutes of each interview? So times a day multiply by
let's say how many tick ticktac gag? How many hours
or days out of the year do you have to
spend saying please, don't talk about the thing. That's a
(34:33):
lot of time. And it doesn't work because all of
these people where they said I don't want to talk
about the then everybody still did. So I'm like, so
you can waste your breath and your energy futilely begging
people to stop talking about the elephant in the room,
or you can just go yes, it's an elephant and
live your damn life.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
Well speaking, I mean it, going to your advocacy. Now,
it's like you didn't just you can't beat them, join them.
You have leveraged a character with few redeeming qualities until
into a power of good? How did the advocacy begin?
I remember, I mean, as I said, I'm I was
(35:16):
born in the year Little House came out, and I
remember hearing about AIDS through a lot of your conversations around. Yes,
I mean that's very much in my memory of thinking
about you culturally. So I'm wondering how did you move
into that.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
During the show. When I'm still really young, it was
always like toys for tots and telephones and things. You
did Easter Seals in the March of Dimes, but the
phone bank, all the celebrities, you know Jamie Fahr, like
I gotch I cat you different and all the whole
gang is and you'd answered the phones and stuff. During
the show. I started going to Special Olympics, the big
(35:50):
summer games at UCLA, and I loved it. I stayed
the whole weekend. It was like a bless so I
was encouraged to do so, mostly for press. They touched it,
but I liked it. So I did all the charity
things like signed me up. So I went to all
the charity things. And then when Steve Tracyyed Perceval calls him,
It's like I'm sick. What do you mean you're sick?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Sick?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
How?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
And we had to play twenty questions and then he
finally comes out that he has AIDS and this is
eighty five. There's nothing. And he was on an experimental
drug which incidentally involved intermuscular and he had to do
injections himself and to his muscles and his thigh. It
was really bad and it hurt. And I said, well,
is it going to work? And he said no, it's
(36:30):
too late to save me. But I'm thinking they might
develop a cure after I'm dead. So I'm doing this,
like holy crack. So I signed up at Age Project
Los Angeles and in hopes of helping Steve. And then
I also saw he had resources. His family stood by him,
his friends stood by him, he had research other people didn't,
And so I went to APLA to try to help people.
(36:52):
They wound up on the hot line and I really
took to it, and that was the crazy thing. Then
there were all these people who weren't going to read
the brochure, refusing to have people come speak on ads
at their business, at their school. Oh it's the woman
from Little House on the Prairie. That's okay. Then White
You're didn't take medical advice from Nellie Olsen? Yes, And
I went, okay, this is crazy, but they're willing to
(37:14):
listen to me. I guess, I guess I'm doing this
then and then it just escalated. And what I found
is if you're famous, like even this much, you can
do quite a bit. I always shocked when famous people
don't do more. I'm like, seriously, you could just go
on TV and say plant a tree, and like, you know,
people will be planting trees. Really, you have a pulpits
you can use.
Speaker 6 (37:35):
This is very quick and fun. Which is what episode
do you hear about the most and what was your
favorite episode of the show.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I always say it's the favorite episode. I remember Dean
Butler going, no, it's your favorite episode? I go, what
is it? It's a Nelly fan favorite episode because he's like, no,
he said hello, hello the episode. But I marry Laura
what that's people's favorite episode Bunny where I go down
the hill in the wheelchair.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
My mother watched that episode with me and she goes,
Laura ingles ish, mean and awful, and it was the
first time anybody had ever said anything critical about Laura,
and I was like, but no, but Nellie. But that
stands out in my mind because my mother was very
on your side in that episode.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
But I did pretend to be paralyzed and ruin everyone's life.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
Everyone talks about that. I mean, you must know this,
But that's the episode we heard about the most on
the on the Road.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Also, in most episodes, Nellie does things to ruin Laura's
life and make her miserable, but in Bunny's the only episode,
Nellie's insane behavior actually impacts everyone's. Doc Baker's go I
don't know what's wrong with her? Is he cannot fix
her and he's being told he's incompetent. He has failed
because he cannot fix and he doesn't know what the
(38:42):
hell's going on. Charles Ingles has to drop what he's
doing and stop work to go fix up a wheelchair
for her. He has other things to do. Suddenly he's
having to get her a wheelchair. Nell's we saw Richard
bull Mischel's crying in storage room with Laura and Paul
come in to talk to Eli. He's crying. Does he
(39:02):
thinks his daughter is crippled for life? Missus Olsen has
a complete meltdown, complete nervous breakdown. She's never gonna be okay.
That's also why Nels's grice, like, my wife is not
going to recover from this. So now I've hurt both
my parents, I've hurt Doc Baker, I've hurt Charles. This
beadle is having to prepare the lessons for Laura to
take home, and then Laura's homework and whole school career,
(39:22):
and Ma's freaking out and she and Charles are fighting
about Laura coming to take care of me, so it's
now impacted their marriage, impact of her relationship with Ma.
The Reverend Olden has to drop what he's doing to
come over and counsel missus. Olsen the Blacksmith, we don't
even see him, but at one point they say, yes,
the horse that ran back. The blacksmith the door flour
(39:43):
he knows, so he's now complicit in hiding this horse
for missus. The Blacksmith has been dragged into this bullshit
that Nellie Olson is doing, so literally everyone's at the teacher,
the reverend, the doctor, the freaking blacksmith, all of these
people have been dragged unwillingly, unknowingly into Nelly's drama because
(40:07):
she decided that this boy she likes who has absolutely
no interest in her whatsoever, but she's decided that she's
mad that he's paying attention to Laura. So she's just
gonna ruin everyone's life and doesn't care about consequences. All
of these people she's now dragged into it and has
the audacity do to sit there waist poking her with
the needle. Now, I can't feel my eggs and she
(40:28):
and she's like bad. I was like, oh oh wait,
no I felt nothing, and like, oh oh I'm so tired.
Oh let me lie back. Good God. So, yeah, she
has it coming. She hasn't coming.
Speaker 6 (40:39):
Connected to this loosely is why do you think you're
on good terms with so many of your co stars
this many years later. It's striking to me that you
all seem to be still friendly and connected and feel
fondly for each other.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
For the most part, most of the people were Laws
of Prow were really nice people generally, And there was
this kind of, like I said, demilitarized zone, like okay,
look you were at work, whatever the hell are you?
People were fighting about it, We don't care, get getting
on with it. So there was that that's left, and
then over the years we've all kind of gone, well,
I guess this is it. We did this thing, and
(41:16):
I guess we're all in this boat here. Somebody asked
me this said, how many people from Little House do
you have on speed dial on your phone? And it
was like fourteen. So yeah, yeah, we kind of hang out.
And then with all the kookie autograph shows and events,
and you know, the fiftieth, the fiftieth An of Us
is coming. Ah, that's gonna be chaos. Wallet GROW's having
(41:38):
a thing, seem Valley's having a thing. Everybody's having a thing.
So some of these autograph shows and things have gotten
to be kind of good, some of these events. Oddly,
it was Kevin Hagen and Dab's Greer, Doctor Baker and
the Reverence who were going out to Wallet Grove in
places quite early on in the eighties, so I sort
of followed like them. Really I enjoyed going to these things,
(42:00):
and then other people start going what now, it's at
the point I did this, got signed up for this
crazy event in Macon, Missouri, that suddenly I have Charlotta
and Pat Laberteau, Miss b Landygark Colling. It's just good
I don't know. I haven't been there yet, and they're like,
Allison's doing it. They're all calling, you said a good gig,
Let's call Allison. So I'm like it, don't look at me, man,
But I ensured that it was a really good gig.
(42:21):
So yeah, we're all going back. And now the Waltons.
The Waltons are all doing the Macon, Missouri pickers Mart.
We're doing me and oh gosh, I think a bundle
hoo forgets what's going Dean Pat Charlotte. We're all going
to the Fall Pickers Mart now in Lincoln, Illinois. But
the entire Walton's cast are doing the Fall Pickers Market
(42:42):
in Macon because I did it and they it was fun.
So now the whole Walton's are going. They're playing copycat now,
so everyone's kind of like now calling each other, Hey
have you heard about this thing? Is that fun? Should
I know? Should I go? And then the fiftieth is coming,
so we're all getting on the bandwagon for that.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
Does it ever make you sad that Michael Lindon is
not around who witnessed the longevity or a would he
have enjoyed it?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And oh yeah, yeah, because he as I've talked about
I was the only one who knew. Dean Butler has
talked about this, Melissa Gilbert has talked about this. Every
has talked about this. That at some point or another,
he said, you know, everyone's going to be watching these
shows long after we're all gone, he said, long after
I'm dead. It was like this prophetic thing that these
(43:24):
shows are, and everyone he said it to it. Yeah right,
oh man, and like didn't believe him when that's a
nice idea, but he's crazy, and here we all are.
He knew. Nobody else the network certainly did. NBC was like,
what that has happened? They didn't get. People did not know.
I mean, we were actors. We're like, well, this is
a good job, and then you know, we'll get another job.
(43:46):
La la la, la la la. We didn't get. Michael got.
He said, no, this thing is just gonna go on forever.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
They're going to be read forever.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
And he was ready.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
He's right, He's always ready.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
First of all, this was such a joy. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Phew.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
I mean truly, this was such a pleasure.
Speaker 7 (44:09):
This episode was produced by me Emily Meronoff, as well
as Mary Do and Shina Ozaki. Sound design and mixing
was done by Amanda Rose Smith. Our Wonderful theme and
additional music was composed by Elise McCoy. We are executive
produced by Glennis McNichol, Joe Piazza, Nikki Etre and Ali Perry.
(44:32):
If you haven't been following us on social media, can
you even call yourself a Wilder fan?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Get on there.
Speaker 7 (44:38):
People follow us on Instagram at Wilder Underscore Podcast and
on TikTok at Wilder Podcast
Hello, Emily, Hello Glennis.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
We're back. We're back.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Happy fall.
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Yeah, it's funny to be talking for Wilder in the
Fall because it's not a road trip season anymore. It's like,
but it is sit in your room, listen to podcasts,
and I'll then maybe watch Little House on the Prairie
on your TV season.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's definitely cozy season.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
I was just thinking, it's a little over a year
ago that we drove to Mansfield, Missouri for the Wilder
Days Festival.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
That's true. A year since you heard pause Fiddle and
your life was changed.
Speaker 4 (00:33):
A year since I heard pause Fiddle, and we then
subsequently went to Graceland.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Made our pilgrimages. So we're dropping a.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
Surprise bonus episode because someone in the comments somewhere, maybe
more than one person actually, in various forms of request,
asked us to all cap release all the interviews, which
I think is a solid request because we did so
many amazing interviews for the podcast that we have like
(01:06):
a wealth of bonus material. And this interview we did
with Alison Arngrim, who is the actress obviously who played
Nellie Olsen in the television show, was I think one
of our first interviews wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It was.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
It was kind of right after we got back from
that Mansfield road trip, which was our last trip, and
we were starting to put all of our tape together
and start collecting all the extra interviews we needed, and we.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Started thinking about the TV show.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Allison's name had come up at so many of the
sites that we knew that she was the first person
we had to talk to.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
People loved her at every one of the houses.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Everyone who'd worked with her, everyone who'd met her raved
about her, which I'm not surprised by. But she was
just a delightful interview. We could have talked to her forever.
I would just say, when we conducted these interviews, it
wasn't with the idea that the full interview would be aired.
So they are, while wonderful, you're getting a rough You're
(02:05):
getting a rough, behind the scenes cut, which does not
diminish from the intelligence or charm or insight that Allison
brings to.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
This And something audience should also know going into this
is most of the cast of Little House. I've written memoirs,
Allison's memoir Confessions of a Prairie Bitch. Is am I
going to offend everyone by saying it's the best one.
It's very very good. It's very good about her and
about her time on Little House and tells you a
lot of things you wouldn't otherwise know.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
No, absolutely, it's so personal, it's so gripping, it's so funny,
and it's really intense. She talks about the sexual abuse
she suffered from a family member, and so keep that
in mind if you're listening to this. We do touch
on that in the interview, and if you haven't read
Confessions of a Prairie Bitch, I would highly recommend listening
(02:58):
to the audiobook because she reads it and it really
is I think, I say at the beginning of this interview,
and when we first spoke to her, I had just
finished listening to it and felt like I'd been with her,
Like it's so wonderfully done, and she's so wonderful and
had so much to say, not just about the television show,
but also about lour Ingles Wilder and her legacy and
(03:19):
the real life version, which if you've listened to the
podcast you've heard some of her insights on that.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
But again, this is the full deep cut.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Yeah, we hope you enjoy it, and we've gotten a
lot of messages from all of you about who you'd
want to hear from, so maybe we'll do more of this.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Everyone has gone off to new projects, but hopefully we'll
be able to keep releasing these every month or so
because we definitely have plenty of amazing material from so
many amazing, generous people.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
So thanks for.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Listening, and thank you everyone for your feedback and the
reviews you're leaving on Apple's. We're very grateful and continue
to be very proud of this podcast.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
So proud, so happy with it, excited to bring you
guys more, and we hope you entrew the episode.
Speaker 6 (04:14):
Okay, Alison, I'm Glynnis.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Hey Glennis.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
I'm so it thrills that you're hearing over the Moon.
I was re listening to your book. I was listening
to the audio version, so I feel like I've been
living with you.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Oh do you like it?
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
My god, because it's like when I wrote it, people
read it and said like, wow, it's like I can
hear you in my head.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
God.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I hope you're doing the audiobook. I know I did
the audio book the way. Yep, that's exactly what I
thought it would sound.
Speaker 6 (04:40):
I'm sure you hear this all the time. It was
like tapped into some childhood part of my brain that
had such a strong relationship with the show that it
was both like eight year old me was listening to
it and present day me was listening to it at
the same time, and it was really powerful. I am
fascinated by so much about you, and also obviously about
your relationship to the show. But just to start, can
(05:01):
you briefly walk through your origin backstory and how you
came to acting and how you came to Little House.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Well, I am a crazy ex child star. My whole
family were in show business. I mean literally even my
aunt and uncle. My aunt was a soprano, my uncle
played the violin. My mother was the voice of Gasper
the Friendly Ghost. My father was managing Liberaci. It was crazy.
So everyone's in show business. So I started working when
I was about five six years old, commercials, little shows.
(05:33):
I did a movie when I was ten, And the
funny part is after I did the movie, I wasn't
working a lot, and my father's a manager, sat me
down and said, you know, you may never work again,
or you may not work to you're an adult, or
you might never work again at all. We don't know.
And then like six months later I got little huse
than pre I read for the part of Laura. I
read for the part of Mary. Laura Ingles was like
(05:53):
the search for Scarlett O'Hara for eight year olds. I
mean everyone the world, right, But of course Melissa go
nailed it. So I come back and there's this part
of Nellioles. I had not read the books. I did
not read the books till after I got the show,
so I was clueless. And I come in and I
see this Nelliolson character and I start reading this and
that's when I turned to my father. It's like this girl,
(06:14):
said total then and I read it for him and
he started laughing. He said, don't change it. Please put
the pages down, don't look at him. Go in and
read it exactly like that. And I did. And there
was Michael Landon, Kat mcgrae and the producers and I
read it and they laughed hysterically, and then they said
to do that one part again and a goodly child actor.
I said, yes, what do you want me to change
(06:36):
and they said nothing. Has read the thing about the
house again because the my home speech from the episode
Country Girls, and I read it again, and they laughed
their heads off and I was hired immediately. Which is
that a compliment to my acting or does that say
something about my personality? I have no idea.
Speaker 6 (06:51):
It's amazing to me when you said the my Home speech.
I haven't seen that episode in years, and I know
precisely what you were talking about, right.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
It's in your head, yeah, because it's like the best thing.
There's this one joke in my Home Speech. I do
not know that every eleven year old got the joke.
Maybe that's because I got the joke and I played
it for that. We have three sets of dishes, one
for every day, one for Sunday, and one for when
someone very special and important comes to visit, which we
(07:19):
have never even used yet. Hi, you live in Walda Grove,
The Queen ain't coming. You don't know.
Speaker 6 (07:25):
Anybody Aspirational dishes in Walnut Grove, Minnesota. And this leads into,
I think a much broader question. I'm sure you get
asked a lot, but why do you think the show
still resonates? I mean, it's on television right now. I
think it keeps the Hallmark Channel in business. It's on
TV around the world. Why is that.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Okay, you have to say. I mean I literally wake
up in the middle of the night and go, somebody
somewhere is watching us the very right now. It's literally
because it's in every country on Earth. It's been dubbed
into every language. There's DVDs in every language. It's bananas,
and I've met people from like every country on Earth
who are like, oh, yeah, I've seen every episode. Was
that the guy near Sri Lanka they only got little
(08:09):
house in the prairie and lost in space. I said,
how confused about America? Were you? I've been asked this
about a million times that we've tried to figure it out,
and all of us from the show like why why.
I think that the problems of the Ingles are universal.
The majority of people on Earth don't actually have very
much money, and the Ingles live in like a two
(08:32):
room house with a whole bunch of kids and worry
if they're going to make it through the week. That's
really how probably eighty ninety percent of humans on the
planet are living in a tidy place with a lot
of children, wondering if they'll have enough to eat. And
this is how people, real people are living. And there's
a rich family in town at the store who give
(08:53):
them a hard time, and there's always a crop failure
or a blizzard or locusts, and they cling together and
make it through. That's reality. Did Dallas, The Dynasty, the
Fabulous shows were was it friends? With these people like
have no jobs and have three bedroom apartments in New York?
That doesn't really happen for maybe a tiny segment of humanity,
(09:14):
whereas little house people tune in and go, yeah, that's
pretty much it. When you look at the fact that
the books got published at the height of the Great Depression,
so people were like, oh, it was worse for the Ingles.
No matter how bad things are the Depression, the Ingles
have it worse and they're muddling through because there was
a recession in the eighteen seventies when that took place,
America was having recession and people were having a terrible time.
(09:37):
So then the books come out in the nineteen thirties,
and when does the show come out seventy four? Remember
whip inflation now in gas rationing, and you could buy
meat like every other day, whatever the heck that it
was a mess. We were having a terrible recession and
suddenly here's Charles Ingles saying the slate pencils up to
two pennies? Oh man, what are we going to do? Genius?
(09:59):
And here we are get When did the show like
explode in popularity again for the eight thousandth time? The pandemic.
We have an episode called plague, and an episode called
quarantine the anthrax, and all of us in the show
we're hearing from people on Facebook and email. It going.
I had no idea it was a huge connection with
the pandemic because people were home and they were frightened,
(10:21):
and they said, I need something familiar, and here it was,
and here were the Kles dealing with terrible and curable diseases.
So I think it's that these are the problems that
people really deal with. And it's a very emotional show.
So I always joke about how the French love it
because Charles' Ingkles he cries beautiful. It's an emotional show.
(10:41):
It taps right into that and people act like it's real.
It's really intense.
Speaker 6 (10:47):
I was really struck by your anecdote in the book
about being at a school function with Catherine McGregor and
someone coming up behind you and kicking you and then
you're opening anecdote about being at a fanfare and someone
walking up who it sounded like they're about my agent
saying I forgive you, and the intensity of it. Guess
the intensity of that connection must be overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
It's it's mind blowing. I mean, we get the people
who come for autographs and sometimes they cry because it's
so intense to meet the person that you've grown up watching.
I was just a Knoxville, Tennessee use Fanboy convention and
it was Melissa Gilbert, Karen Grassley, and me, So you
can imagine how bananas people went and these were up
(11:31):
on these huge things and the line comes up today
and so people come on and they say, yes, you
come around, get a picture. And we've had this before,
Like I remember my husband Bob was with me during
one thing where we'd have people start shaking and I'd
go put my armor on from the photo and they
burst into tears. We'd have to get them together, like
wait a minute for them. So we had criers and
they all cried. Of course when they saw maw Karen.
They all cried at Karen's table. I had Kleenex at
(11:53):
my table because we're getting criers and I of course
could tease them and make to get them laughing, because
they'd come up and I go, uh uh, what's how
many is this? You are a number four? You are
the fourth crier of the morning.
Speaker 7 (12:06):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I was like, how well we got Kleenex?
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Come on?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Do you think? And so yeah, we talked about how
many criers we got in to day.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Who gets the strongest reaction from the fans? Do you think?
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I know Melissa Gilbert. Obviously it's Laura. She'd people just
go into a coma at the site. He's like, oh
my god, Laura. They just like flip out completely. A
lot of people don't think they're gonna be emotional. Then
they meet Ma and that voice and she sounds the same,
and she's so sweet. It's her. I've seen people really
lose it over Charlotte Stewart, Miss Beatle. We were at
(12:37):
an event and they're getting autographed. Charlotte's practically doing therapy.
I'm signing autographs. They turn around and she's holding this
guy's hand, going yes, I understand. He's like sobbing, hysterical.
I'm like, what is going on over there? She's like
it's like out of control. And then it's weird because
you know, she was in David Lynch's eraser Head and
on Twin Peaks and she was in Trimmers. So we
(13:00):
had all the horror people and like the Twin Peaks
people coming and the Little House people. It was like crazy.
I get obviously an extremely strong reaction. I get a
very different reaction. We all have our own like different ones.
And the women who are still in love with Almonzo,
poor Dean Butler, he blushes, you know, he blushes. The
women come up and go he's still so handsome and
(13:20):
he's like like going breat red. So they're still in
love with him. So that's the whole world.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
That kind of ties into something I found really powerful
about the book. And you're writing about your upbringing and
the abuse at the hands of your brother, and I
was born in seventy four, the year Little House came out,
and so when you were writing about how in your
childhood the absent sort of ABC after school specials or
a language around traumatic experiences with children, I was really
(13:49):
struck by how in the show you were doing some
of the craziest storylines in Little House that I think
people mock about. You know, it really goes what feels
like a little off the rails in terms of narrative
from time to time. But I was listening to your book,
I thought, oh, but in those episodes, it is really providing,
you know, an experience for kids who might not have
(14:09):
seen those experiences anywhere else on TV. Did that ever
strike you as sort of an amazing thing that you're
participating in a show that was sort of providing a
language or an experience for kids that wouldn't have otherwise
had access to it.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Well, we did cover everything. Remember, it was so weird because, okay,
we're doing the eighteen hundreds, we're doing law, but it's
the nineteen seventies and the Norman Leer shows are on,
and there's all this cutting edge television talking about racism, sexism,
the women's movement, the drug problem, all this stuff is happening.
So we're actually technically doing it, but because it's the
(14:45):
eighteen seventies, it's going like whoosh over the heads of
anyone who would object, and other people are going, yes,
thank god they're covering. Is the Civil War soldier who
comes back and he has PTSD or shell shock should
be there and he's a to morphine This is the
same year when Vietnam veterans were coming home addicted to heroin,
(15:06):
and here we have a Civil War soldier with the morphine.
They did like, hello, how many people were living that episode?
The poor, the mother. So we were doing these episodes,
the women want the right to own property. We did
all these episodes. We had episodes about alcoholism, about drugs.
Even Albert, the teenage on morphine became a drug. The
(15:28):
good boy from the Good family going out on drugs.
This is what people were experiencing. We were showing all
of these things. We had child abuse, we had special abuse,
and of course the Sylvia episode, or as people do
refer to it, clown rape.
Speaker 6 (15:42):
I'm not laughing because it's funny, but that is the
way people refer to it.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's horrified. It's a very very disturbing episode, but again
a real thing that happens, and happened in the eighteen hundreds.
Because people will say, oh, back in those days, well
back in those days, all the same things happened and
things were terrible too. People dealt with it. And that's
why when you read like Pioneer Girl Laura's real autobiography
and see the little stories that they said, maybe not
(16:08):
put that in banks a Plump Creek. The things that
didn't make it into the children's books, you go, whoa, yikes.
And of course she was dealing with the same kind
of harassment and the threat of molestation and terrible things
happening around her. And so that's real life. We did
work all those things out, and a lot of things
that were covered on nineteen seventy shows like Family or
(16:30):
All in the Family or Maud we were sneaking them
in too, but everybody was in bonnets, so it was
somehow safe and okay, And of course Paul and ma
were there to help you deal with it.
Speaker 6 (16:41):
Yeah, the line you said, I think something along lines
of Michael Lannon fleshed out characters that Laura only implied
in the book when you read Prairie Frizer, as you say,
pioneer Girl, this idea that she couldn't look some of
her traumatic experiences in the face, and the show was
able to depict them.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
The books, the Engles don't have a son, and there's
no baby who dies. That doesn't happen in the books.
It happens in the show, but it happened in real life.
But the family was so traumatized by the death of
the little boy that they did not talk about it.
So all this stuff in the books is like whoa.
So then when they complain on the show, like, well,
(17:21):
on the show, will you change this? Have you read
the books? The timelines are different, and then when you
read the real timelines and the stuff she really went
through the ad sor but yeah, they could not bring
themselves to talk about the poor child, so she didn't
do that in the books, never spoke of it. And
then in the TV show, of course Michael said, what,
that's like the greatest episode ever. Of course we're going
(17:42):
to do that. And then of course Laura runs away
to a mountain. How she found a mountain in Minnesota?
I always say she ran across four states to like
Colorado or something. I don't know. She finds a big
mountain at that and then at the top of the
mountain is Ernest bourg Dye, who is apparently gone. And
(18:03):
that was my And it's one of the greatest episodes
ever made. It's one of the favorite episodes. It's Melissa's
favorite apps. It is one of the best episodes ever
of like Anything, and it is genius, and it totally works.
Speaker 6 (18:15):
That is always been my favorite episode. I watched it
not long ago, so remind me of my shepherd, the
Lord's Ice Shepherd. I would pay for a Little House
series of you doing the voiceover of like verbally annotating
the entire series as we go. Speaking of the books,
which you clearly you know are very knowledgeable about. When
did you come to the book?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Well, all of a sudden, show did the I guess
i'd better get the book where Charlotte said she got
a book at a rummage sale and I think it
was like The Long Winter, one of the really hard ones.
She said, I started reading this book and like, by
page three, Mary is blind and the dog dies. I said,
I said, what am I reading? This is awful? But
what yes, what happened? And then like years later, I
(18:58):
remember going back and rereading Plumb Creek in the first
onood Little House in the Big Woods, going oh, okay,
these are pretty good. And then of course the pandemic
hit and I said, I haven't read those things in years,
and I thought, well, I'm hab at home. Everything I
was doing was canceled, like, okay, I'm here for the duration.
Clearly I need to do something interesting and I thought, well,
(19:18):
go back, I have time. I'll go read the Little
House Books. And I had just taken a workshop where
this great acting teacher said, you know, people don't read
aloud enough at home. It's really good diction and training,
he said, But as an actor, he said, next thing,
you're sitting around the house, read a magazine out loud,
read to the cat. It's really good for you. And
then I went, everyone else is bored out of their minds.
(19:41):
I'll go on Facebook live and we'll all read them.
So I put on a bonnet, gone on Facebook and say, okay, guys,
the woman wrote nine books, and I will read them all,
starting with book one page for we can keep this
going as long as it takes. And I read the
Little House Books every freaking day. I read all nine books.
(20:01):
I read books about Laura, other books by Laura books,
all of Roses stuff, all the Bill Anderson stuff about Laura,
the history. I actually read Pioneer Girl with the footnotes live.
That took a while. I did Little House in the
Ozarks Laura Ingles articles that she wrote for like the
Missouri Rules the Papers. That was really fascinating because it's
(20:23):
nineteen sixteen through like nineteen twenty one. So she's talking about, oh,
the Spanish flu pandemic and World War One and women
getting the vote. It's like, what that mind blowed? So
we're reading that. A few cast members read stepped in
and read Dean Butler Corset. I got to do The
Long Winter. It's like Almonzo saves the town. It's my book.
So he read The Long Winter. And I completed six
(20:46):
hundred readings, and then I read the Little Books again.
So I read them twice, you know, And we just
finished recently six hundred, six hundred readings, and I said, guys,
I'm taking a break at six hundred. I'll be back,
but I think six hundred we can have a stop point.
But a lot of people said it really got them
through the pandemic. I got a commemorative thing from my
local senator for raising morale during the pandemic. Exploring the
(21:10):
works of lower Ingle's Wilder, increasing literacy rates, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
Was it intense for you to be reading these books
by a woman who's act of her writing her life
down has such a huge impact on your life. I mean,
you are part of her legacy, and she is so
much of your history. It's I wonder what that experience
was like or if that occurred to you while you
were doing it.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yeah, it always tas. I mean, well, you know, I've
been to Nelly's grave because you know, there were three
different people that made up Nellie Olsen. There's Nelly Owens
who's buried in Tillamookork, and I say, I've been to
my grave. It's Nellie Owen's curry. It's like, really weird.
I was like, thank you, thank you for being a
bitch so I could have a career. Oh so that
was so weird. But then Genevieve's Masters and Stella Gilbert
(21:56):
later were all kind of It took three people to
be as mean as me. So it's very bizarre. And
the pressure, I mean, it's something Melissa's talked about. We've
talked about the massive psychic weight and pressure that Melissa
Gilbert has had to live with being Laura Ingalls that
her brains have not just run out her ears. I
don't know how she stood it to these in and
(22:17):
it was very hard for she didn't visit the sites
for a really long time. So yeah, it's been really
heavy for and it is weird for me to read
these books and then especially then reading like the stuff
with the real stories, the behind the scenes stories, that
this really happened to this woman and she wrote this
stuff and then it blew up, which she couldn't believe.
And then that's a TV show she never anticipated, and
(22:39):
that and that the TV show Blake. You know, a
lot of shows came out in nineteen seventy four. There
was a lot of things on TV actually in the
nineteen seventies that were really huge. That aren't she reruns
her out on DVD and people are not watching now
that were huge at the time, and now it's like, oh, yeah,
that was on, but Little House in the Prairie is
(22:59):
what in the heck? So it's really weird for all
of us. But yes, that's why when I read the
k and then now having read them aloud twice, it
was surreal. But yeah, there is this whole weird connection,
that's why. And I've always been I like history. I've
always been fasctated with history. So then to be tied
into history in this really weird way and learn everything
(23:22):
I could learn about the real Nelly and genevieven Stella.
So for all of a sudden, she'd know we were
playing people who lived.
Speaker 6 (23:31):
I imagine you get this from fans. It's this nice
comforting thing to know that many of you are still
in touch with each other and reading about you, in
particular describing the set, which at least felt to me
like it became a safe space for you and your
friendship with Melissa Gilbert, and your impression of her was wonderful.
(23:51):
I mean, your impressions are wonderful. They're really you can
hear it.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
So she told me when she, I said, her early
copy of the book, because she gave me a blurb,
but everything she said when she read, what would I say,
she could fit in my person sure way out or
she had to. She said she had to put the
book down because she went. She said she'd like completely
lost in gafad like almost peg. She was like, guess that, Yeah,
that was just like accurate.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
The thing I have to say I loved the most
was and I know you get asked all the time
about Michael Landon, who I obviously want to talk about
in a minute, but I thought it was really wonderful
when you said you didn't know if he loved you,
but he respected you Oh my god, yeah, yeah, you
say that, you know, none of you are in jail
or convicted. And even when you talk now about the
(24:36):
psychic weight of carrying these characters and the success of
this show attributing it that and how you shared dressing rooms,
but everyone shared dressing rooms and you were expected to
be on time, the manner with which you described this
whole experience feels that it was not just positive but
sort of strengthening.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Well, god, yeah, it was incredible, because okay, when when
you're a teenager, things like getting up early in the
morning and having dis linna not so much. And when
you're a teenager you have all this angst and anger
and you don't want to be told what to do.
And then in my case, having lived through abuse and bullying,
there's all this rage. I mean, that's the biggest problem
(25:14):
for people who are traumatized where physically or sexually abused,
is what do you do with all this anger is
just sitting there eating you up, and you got to
dump it somewhere. And so here I am on this
show where people quite nice to me, and I feel
quite safe, and I have this character who can scream
and go ye hey, and like let stuff out, which
is like, oh my god, that felt so good. So
(25:36):
that was incredible. But whatever was going on in my
life at the time as a crazy teenager, and whereas
other crazy teenagers might have on the weekend said hey,
let's do drugs or you know, because you know, I
was really into punk rock and going to the bands
and everything, I probably would have cut my hair short
dye of green and gotten at least one piercing somewhere
(25:56):
in my face. But I was like, ah, I gotta
be worked on money day. So there was always like,
gotta go to work, man, whatever insane ideas I might
have had or crazy things are going on, yes, but
we're going to work on Monday. I gotta be at
the SID so I gotta go to bed. Now, you
guys party, I gotta go because I gotta go to
bed because I gotta get up at like four in
(26:17):
the morning. And there was a structure and I knew
I was going to see these people, and I knew
what was going to happen, and I knew there's going
to be there and I had a job, and it
was like, yes, you are performing a function that is
needed that people need you to do. And you have responsibility.
It was an enormous amount of responsibility. And I said,
poor Melissa, she's like, you know, nine, carrying the show.
(26:40):
She's responsible for the employment of like four hundred people.
That was kind of a lot of pressure. But we
were all held responsible that we needed to do our job.
And I also had the marvelous advantage of you know,
I got paid, which is like, yeah, of course, But
a lot of teenage, a lot of child actors the money.
(27:01):
They never saw their money. There were even a few
kids on the show where the parents were whovered that money.
You're supposed to have a trust fund, so I had
a checking account at thirteen, So I was responsible. I
had a job. I got paid to do my job.
I saw the money from the job, and I also
saw all the expenses related to the job. So there
was a level of adult responsibility and learning about money
(27:23):
and business, and learning about show business and learning about
what goes on on a set and how to deal
with office politics.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
Yeah, and a lot of adult behavior. I mean, you
describe a complicated world in which you both feel very
safe but are exposed to a lot of adult behavior,
and that you write and have spoken about how close
you and Alyssa Gilbert are and yet you're playing foes
on screen. Was that ever confusing as a kid or
was it fun?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Oh? It was so much fun. Well, I said the books.
At one point it was like, you know, therapy with
Pataca bats, you know, you get out all the hostilities.
We thought it was so funny because you bonded right away.
And then the idea that regularly every few episodes we'd
hit each other in the face was like, it's like awesome,
And it was funny because like the very first fight scene,
they were very careful and there was a stunt girl
(28:10):
to do one of the falls so I wouldn't hit
my head. But like after that they went and we
pretty much were choreographing our own fights and they just
didn't need stunts for that. The mud fight's all us.
They're stunk of that, the famous mud fight. They're like, yeah,
you guys got this whatever, and they're just like, do
do what every the hell you want to do? And
(28:30):
we did, and we had so much fun, and we
thought it was so funny to play these mortal enemies
and do all this terrible stuff. But it was weird
because these scenes, right me saying things, and she's crying.
We're going out for sloopees later at seven eleven. It's like,
so weird.
Speaker 6 (29:02):
How did you carry the negative response to Nelly in
real life? It feels like it must have been overwhelming.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
It was really bizarre. But I'm weird. I have a
very warped sense of humor, as you may have noticed
having read my book, and I find it's a great
survival mechanism. Way you one of my therapists once we're
talking about that, I said, well, isn't humor just a
defense mechanism? And she said, yeah, who the hell ever
said you're not allowed to defend yourself. So it's like, yeah,
(29:32):
it's a good defense mechanism. Great, go with that. See yeah, No,
having a warped sense of humor is good. So I
have a very peculiar sense of humor. And I also
always liked villains. I talked about that I would watch
the movies as a kid. It's like Captain Hook Yeah,
cool man. And I liked villains. Oh God, I love
Vincent Price, my hero Vincent Price, and even now, Sir
(29:53):
Anthony Hawkins, I adore villains and things. So being a villain,
I had a different attitude of I was like, hey,
the villain, so that was a badge of honor. That
was cool.
Speaker 6 (30:03):
Did you ever go through a period I mean you do.
I want to in a minute talk about all of
your advocacy work, but just before we get to that,
did you ever try and distance yourself from Nelly with
Did you go through a period of time where you're like,
I want nothing to do with the idea of Nellie Olsen,
I'm my own person. Because you seem now to have
such a close relationship with the fan base, we heard
on our trip over and over again how much people
(30:25):
adore you. You personally heard them pretty much, yes, But Alison,
we heard pretty consistent like of you. This is obviously
a competition, but we heard about you consistently over and
over again from everyone at all of the sites. So
I'm but I wonder, like, was there to be a
child star so strongly associated with one character. Did you
go through a period where you're like, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Bad, you get me away from brief It was like
it was right after the show in the eighties. So
I talked about the book in the eighties, we were
all supposed to beautiful and sexy. It was all like
the sex comedies and the porkies and the as I said,
every part I would offered in my early twenties was
a cheerleader, naked or dead or a combination of all three,
(31:07):
and it just didn't work for me. So there was apps,
and there's a million bikini photos and posters and swimsuit
photos out there and the fans are all finding them.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Now.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Somebody in Facebook just the other day went what the
heck is this and put up like all my swimsuit
pictures are like huh. So there was this whole campaign
with my management and everyone Deverd's management. We are young, beautiful,
modern sexy women. We are not children anymore. We've all
grown up. We're off the show. We don't live in
the eighteen hundreds, we don't wear bustles. We can be
on Dynasty in a hotel and Fantasy Island look at us,
(31:39):
and so get out that swimsuit girls and take those pictures.
So yeah, we're doing that, which was like fun, you know, sorta,
But yeah, there was a period it was like, how
do we make this stop? Because I want to work
and be play different parts. And then there were times
where it was just kind of like because it was
so never ending. It was every single day, and it
(31:59):
was like, God, it's like gonna stop anytime soon, maybe
no escape. And it's also Little House gets mentioned in
other books and TV shows and movies, so there's like
no escape and to the point where you can't okay,
the movie network in the movie Network faint down a way.
So that was I was like fifteen sixty and I
(32:20):
went with friends and we went to see Network and
I'm thinking, la la, la, la la, I am not
doing anything to do with the Lastnabry. Today. I'm out
with my friends as a normal person, and there's a
scene where the woman is complaining about their reality show
about the Revolutionary group, and she said, the opposite the
Monday night football another channel and Little House on the
damn Prairie, and my friends will go anything like slumping
(32:45):
down on my train. It's just like no wonder. I
was reading a book the other night and it was
like just something that well, you know, like the Mellie
Olsen curls, and I'm like, God, there's just just never,
just no escape. I can't go anywhere where it's not there.
And so at some point in the late eighties and
especially early nineties, because there was a big another wave
because we had the VH I think it was the
(33:05):
DVDs came out in the nineties and all Hellborough clothes
and we had more cable, had more nickelodeon and stuff.
At some point it was they can't beat him, join
them thing finally kicked in. It's like, what the hell,
what am I going to do? And I realized also
because I look kind of weirdly the same, it's the
bone structure. I never got a nose job, and this
(33:25):
is kind of still it's the and a lot of
people say, well, you look the same, and I go, oh,
thank you. And at some point it was like, can't
beat them, join them, and I also said it was
I said, well, okay, I would have to literally have
massive plastic surgery, dye my hair, and move to a
country where the show isn't shown. And I don't know
what country that is because I'm getting mailed from Russia
(33:46):
and China now, so I don't know where they're not
showing this where someone isn't good to going. Then you
know what it said, it's good for that least, So it's
there's no getting around it. So it's like, well, what
are you gonna do? You can spend your whole And
I also saw all the interviews would many, many, many
celebrities who try to get away from their old show,
so they have to spend a portion of the interview
(34:09):
saying no, I don't want to talk about the show
that I was onor that character. Now, how many minutes?
Then how many interviews a day do so? How many
minutes of each interview? So times a day multiply by
let's say how many tick ticktac gag? How many hours
or days out of the year do you have to
spend saying please, don't talk about the thing. That's a
(34:33):
lot of time. And it doesn't work because all of
these people where they said I don't want to talk
about the then everybody still did. So I'm like, so
you can waste your breath and your energy futilely begging
people to stop talking about the elephant in the room,
or you can just go yes, it's an elephant and
live your damn life.
Speaker 6 (34:55):
Well speaking, I mean it, going to your advocacy. Now,
it's like you didn't just you can't beat them, join them.
You have leveraged a character with few redeeming qualities until
into a power of good? How did the advocacy begin?
I remember, I mean, as I said, I'm I was
(35:16):
born in the year Little House came out, and I
remember hearing about AIDS through a lot of your conversations around. Yes,
I mean that's very much in my memory of thinking
about you culturally. So I'm wondering how did you move
into that.
Speaker 2 (35:29):
During the show. When I'm still really young, it was
always like toys for tots and telephones and things. You
did Easter Seals in the March of Dimes, but the
phone bank, all the celebrities, you know Jamie Fahr, like
I gotch I cat you different and all the whole
gang is and you'd answered the phones and stuff. During
the show. I started going to Special Olympics, the big
(35:50):
summer games at UCLA, and I loved it. I stayed
the whole weekend. It was like a bless so I
was encouraged to do so, mostly for press. They touched it,
but I liked it. So I did all the charity
things like signed me up. So I went to all
the charity things. And then when Steve Tracyyed Perceval calls him,
It's like I'm sick. What do you mean you're sick?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Sick?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
How?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
And we had to play twenty questions and then he
finally comes out that he has AIDS and this is
eighty five. There's nothing. And he was on an experimental
drug which incidentally involved intermuscular and he had to do
injections himself and to his muscles and his thigh. It
was really bad and it hurt. And I said, well,
is it going to work? And he said no, it's
(36:30):
too late to save me. But I'm thinking they might
develop a cure after I'm dead. So I'm doing this,
like holy crack. So I signed up at Age Project
Los Angeles and in hopes of helping Steve. And then
I also saw he had resources. His family stood by him,
his friends stood by him, he had research other people didn't,
And so I went to APLA to try to help people.
(36:52):
They wound up on the hot line and I really
took to it, and that was the crazy thing. Then
there were all these people who weren't going to read
the brochure, refusing to have people come speak on ads
at their business, at their school. Oh it's the woman
from Little House on the Prairie. That's okay. Then White
You're didn't take medical advice from Nellie Olsen? Yes, And
I went, okay, this is crazy, but they're willing to
(37:14):
listen to me. I guess, I guess I'm doing this
then and then it just escalated. And what I found
is if you're famous, like even this much, you can
do quite a bit. I always shocked when famous people
don't do more. I'm like, seriously, you could just go
on TV and say plant a tree, and like, you know,
people will be planting trees. Really, you have a pulpits
you can use.
Speaker 6 (37:35):
This is very quick and fun. Which is what episode
do you hear about the most and what was your
favorite episode of the show.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
I always say it's the favorite episode. I remember Dean
Butler going, no, it's your favorite episode? I go, what
is it? It's a Nelly fan favorite episode because he's like, no,
he said hello, hello the episode. But I marry Laura
what that's people's favorite episode Bunny where I go down
the hill in the wheelchair.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
My mother watched that episode with me and she goes,
Laura ingles ish, mean and awful, and it was the
first time anybody had ever said anything critical about Laura,
and I was like, but no, but Nellie. But that
stands out in my mind because my mother was very
on your side in that episode.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
But I did pretend to be paralyzed and ruin everyone's life.
Speaker 6 (38:16):
Everyone talks about that. I mean, you must know this,
But that's the episode we heard about the most on
the on the Road.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Also, in most episodes, Nellie does things to ruin Laura's
life and make her miserable, but in Bunny's the only episode,
Nellie's insane behavior actually impacts everyone's. Doc Baker's go I
don't know what's wrong with her? Is he cannot fix
her and he's being told he's incompetent. He has failed
because he cannot fix and he doesn't know what the
(38:42):
hell's going on. Charles Ingles has to drop what he's
doing and stop work to go fix up a wheelchair
for her. He has other things to do. Suddenly he's
having to get her a wheelchair. Nell's we saw Richard
bull Mischel's crying in storage room with Laura and Paul
come in to talk to Eli. He's crying. Does he
(39:02):
thinks his daughter is crippled for life? Missus Olsen has
a complete meltdown, complete nervous breakdown. She's never gonna be okay.
That's also why Nels's grice, like, my wife is not
going to recover from this. So now I've hurt both
my parents, I've hurt Doc Baker, I've hurt Charles. This
beadle is having to prepare the lessons for Laura to
take home, and then Laura's homework and whole school career,
(39:22):
and Ma's freaking out and she and Charles are fighting
about Laura coming to take care of me, so it's
now impacted their marriage, impact of her relationship with Ma.
The Reverend Olden has to drop what he's doing to
come over and counsel missus. Olsen the Blacksmith, we don't
even see him, but at one point they say, yes,
the horse that ran back. The blacksmith the door flour
(39:43):
he knows, so he's now complicit in hiding this horse
for missus. The Blacksmith has been dragged into this bullshit
that Nellie Olson is doing, so literally everyone's at the teacher,
the reverend, the doctor, the freaking blacksmith, all of these
people have been dragged unwillingly, unknowingly into Nelly's drama because
(40:07):
she decided that this boy she likes who has absolutely
no interest in her whatsoever, but she's decided that she's
mad that he's paying attention to Laura. So she's just
gonna ruin everyone's life and doesn't care about consequences. All
of these people she's now dragged into it and has
the audacity do to sit there waist poking her with
the needle. Now, I can't feel my eggs and she
(40:28):
and she's like bad. I was like, oh oh wait,
no I felt nothing, and like, oh oh I'm so tired.
Oh let me lie back. Good God. So, yeah, she
has it coming. She hasn't coming.
Speaker 6 (40:39):
Connected to this loosely is why do you think you're
on good terms with so many of your co stars
this many years later. It's striking to me that you
all seem to be still friendly and connected and feel
fondly for each other.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
For the most part, most of the people were Laws
of Prow were really nice people generally, And there was
this kind of, like I said, demilitarized zone, like okay,
look you were at work, whatever the hell are you?
People were fighting about it, We don't care, get getting
on with it. So there was that that's left, and
then over the years we've all kind of gone, well,
I guess this is it. We did this thing, and
(41:16):
I guess we're all in this boat here. Somebody asked
me this said, how many people from Little House do
you have on speed dial on your phone? And it
was like fourteen. So yeah, yeah, we kind of hang out.
And then with all the kookie autograph shows and events,
and you know, the fiftieth, the fiftieth An of Us
is coming. Ah, that's gonna be chaos. Wallet GROW's having
(41:38):
a thing, seem Valley's having a thing. Everybody's having a thing.
So some of these autograph shows and things have gotten
to be kind of good, some of these events. Oddly,
it was Kevin Hagen and Dab's Greer, Doctor Baker and
the Reverence who were going out to Wallet Grove in
places quite early on in the eighties, so I sort
of followed like them. Really I enjoyed going to these things,
(42:00):
and then other people start going what now, it's at
the point I did this, got signed up for this
crazy event in Macon, Missouri, that suddenly I have Charlotta
and Pat Laberteau, Miss b Landygark Colling. It's just good
I don't know. I haven't been there yet, and they're like,
Allison's doing it. They're all calling, you said a good gig,
Let's call Allison. So I'm like it, don't look at me, man,
But I ensured that it was a really good gig.
(42:21):
So yeah, we're all going back. And now the Waltons.
The Waltons are all doing the Macon, Missouri pickers Mart.
We're doing me and oh gosh, I think a bundle
hoo forgets what's going Dean Pat Charlotte. We're all going
to the Fall Pickers Mart now in Lincoln, Illinois. But
the entire Walton's cast are doing the Fall Pickers Market
(42:42):
in Macon because I did it and they it was fun.
So now the whole Walton's are going. They're playing copycat now,
so everyone's kind of like now calling each other, Hey
have you heard about this thing? Is that fun? Should
I know? Should I go? And then the fiftieth is coming,
so we're all getting on the bandwagon for that.
Speaker 6 (42:57):
Does it ever make you sad that Michael Lindon is
not around who witnessed the longevity or a would he
have enjoyed it?
Speaker 2 (43:03):
And oh yeah, yeah, because he as I've talked about
I was the only one who knew. Dean Butler has
talked about this, Melissa Gilbert has talked about this. Every
has talked about this. That at some point or another,
he said, you know, everyone's going to be watching these
shows long after we're all gone, he said, long after
I'm dead. It was like this prophetic thing that these
(43:24):
shows are, and everyone he said it to it. Yeah right,
oh man, and like didn't believe him when that's a
nice idea, but he's crazy, and here we all are.
He knew. Nobody else the network certainly did. NBC was like,
what that has happened? They didn't get. People did not know.
I mean, we were actors. We're like, well, this is
a good job, and then you know, we'll get another job.
(43:46):
La la la, la la la. We didn't get. Michael got.
He said, no, this thing is just gonna go on forever.
Speaker 5 (43:51):
They're going to be read forever.
Speaker 6 (43:54):
And he was ready.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
He's right, He's always ready.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
First of all, this was such a joy. Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Phew.
Speaker 6 (44:01):
I mean truly, this was such a pleasure.
Speaker 7 (44:09):
This episode was produced by me Emily Meronoff, as well
as Mary Do and Shina Ozaki. Sound design and mixing
was done by Amanda Rose Smith. Our Wonderful theme and
additional music was composed by Elise McCoy. We are executive
produced by Glennis McNichol, Joe Piazza, Nikki Etre and Ali Perry.
(44:32):
If you haven't been following us on social media, can
you even call yourself a Wilder fan?
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Get on there.
Speaker 7 (44:38):
People follow us on Instagram at Wilder Underscore Podcast and
on TikTok at Wilder Podcast
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