Ep. 913: My Son's First Turkey, Public Land Controversy, and 2025 Deer Plans

This week on the show Tony and I are getting together for a fun discussion to kick off the summer by recapping our spring turkey hunts, our top 2025 deer plans, and the latest public land news/controversies.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven
versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,
Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
the show, Tony and I are kicking off the summer
with a very fun conversation around this past season's turkey hunts,
our biggest plans and projects for deer hunting this coming fall,
and some important public land issues and updates. All right,

(00:40):
welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast. In this
week it is Mark and Tony's epic kickoff to summer
adventure extravaganza, outdoor Rama podcast fest.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
How does that sound, Tony?

Speaker 4 (00:55):
That sounds amazing, amazing, Buddy, It's good to have you
back on the show man. Yeah, thanks for having me
buddy today.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
I just wanted to have, like, I just want to
have a little bit a lighter conversation, a little bit
of fun Wired to Hunt. Over the last couple of months,
we've had a lot of habitat stuff, We've had a
lot of conservation stuff. It's been like kind of deep
and heavy content So as we're kicking off summer here
with June finally arrived, feared, we should, you know, just
get the crew back together, talk deer, talk upcoming plans,

(01:30):
Talk Turkey season, because you and I haven't got to
talk about our Turkey seasons yet. And I've got a
great story that I haven't got to tell anyone on
the podcast about yet.

Speaker 3 (01:38):
Talk a little bit current events.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
There's been a lot in like the public land conservation
world that we haven't explicitly talked about on the podcast yet,
So I want to give some updates there and then
you know, see if there's anything exciting going on for
you or E as we head into this season. Because
what's crazy is it feels like we're going to blink
and all of a sudden, it's going to be late
August and we're gonna be racing round to go hunting.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
So I don't know how it happened. It feels like
it was.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
I swear to god, it was just January first, and
my wife and I were like planning our year, and
all of a sudden, half it's gone.

Speaker 3 (02:09):
How does this happen every year?

Speaker 4 (02:10):
I don't know, buddy, It goes time, just freaking flies
now just flies.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Is it getting worse for you with the older kids
and everything?

Speaker 4 (02:21):
It just accelerates When you have kids. It's like your
whole life is spoken for it, like activities and stuff.
So like you said, I mean, you're sitting there planning
out months ahead of time what you're going to do,
and it's always like, well, I got to be here
to pick them up, here, got to drop them off here,
they have this choir thing, they have this softball thing, whatever,
and it's just like your life is just gone. And

(02:42):
then I mean I was thinking about this this morning.
I left the gym and I was like, oh, man,
I got to go get my blinds out of the
woods now because Turkey season's over. And next week I'm
going to drop cameras off in Wisconsin and cut some
trails and do some work over there, and it'll be
right into deer mode.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
And it's like, yeah, crazy, Yeah, I'm actually going out
to put my, uh or some of my summer cameras
out right when we get done with this, which is
just wild how it shifts and flies. And one of
the things I always thought early on with kids was that, oh,
when they get older, I'll have more time and I'm
not sure if that's true or not, because I'm in

(03:21):
a window right now where it's it's sort of true.
But I see like the future that you're talking about
with sports and all those things all of a sudden
taking away the little bit of extra independence I've gotten out.
The kids are a little bit hands off compared to
what they used to be. I don't know if that's
what you're saying you're experiencing there, but so it's a
little scary. Your freedom changes.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
So having when you have little ones, you know, like
obviously you can't leave them home alone. They'll kill each other,
burn the house down, whatever, So you're like always there
for them, or they're with you, or you have to
arrange for them to have somebody. When they get older
and you can leave, it's it's like they get into
more activities. So like your weekends and your days are

(04:04):
tied up more, but your individual time like go for
a run in the evening or go do you know,
go buy the groceries or whatever changes, so you get
these little bits of time that open up for you
where you're like, Okay, now I don't need to worry
about that, Like I'm gonna go get my haircut. I
don't have to think about what I'm doing with my kids,
you know, but you trade that for them being in

(04:28):
you know, five months of basketball where there's tournaments all
over the state for you know, literally months at a time,
and then you get out of that and it's right
into another activity and you're like, well every Tuesday and
Thursday night is softball and there's four tournaments over the summer,
and you're like, so that you lose those big blocks
of time more. Yeah, So it's tough, like planning. I mean,

(04:49):
I'm you know, you talk about planning your year with
your wife, Like I'm sitting here looking at opening dates
in Minnesota and Wisconsin and where I kind of want
to travel this year, and like when can I get
my daughters out hunting for a couple weekends next season?
And it's already like, well, I can't do that. One
can't do that. One can't do that. One you better
make this one count. I mean, it's just it's a lot, buddy.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
So we just wrapped a Turkey season, or at least
I don't know when yours ended, but our season ended
two days ago. Turkey Season of Michigan just did so
speaking of taking the kids out and everything. Did you
guys have a good Turkey season? How was it for
you and the girls?

Speaker 4 (05:29):
We had good, good season, buddy. Minnesota went really well
for us. My daughters killed both killed good toms early
in the season. I killed one. I rowed a good
bird here, so we had a good Minnesota season. I
killed a bird on public in Nebraska, bird on public
in Kansas. And then we did one weekend in southwestern

(05:53):
Wisconsin and one of my daughters killed a really good
tom down there. So we ended up killing six for
our family, which is a good spring. So yeah, I'm
the kid thing. Dude. It's like my daughters are. They're
kind of obsessed with stats, like they're at that stage,
you know, and so they've never had neither one of

(06:14):
them has ever had a up until last year, a
two deer year or a two state deer year, right,
So that's how spoiled they are. They're like, well, I've
killed two deer, but we were in the same state,
Like I want to kill one. You know, how old
are they again? They're thirteen thirteen, okay, and then they'd
never even though we've hunted Wisconsin and Minnesota every year

(06:34):
they've either missed or it just hasn't worked out, so
they've for that. My one daughter to kill a bird
in Minnesota a good time and then go to Wisconsin
and kill one. She's she's flying pretty high. Plus she's
the one who killed the barrel last year, so she's
she thinks she's pretty special. She's probably sending in applications
to meat eater right now.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Well, hey, there's there's precedent for some nepotism at our company,
so I.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Might work out for how dare you a kid? A kid?

Speaker 4 (07:01):
But do you.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
I would love to see the Peterson girls get a
gig at a meeted or why not come on with.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
No shit start making some money girls?

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Mm hmm, Yeah, I gotta pay their own way.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Did A were any of those any of those hunts
like particularly unique or memorable?

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Were they?

Speaker 4 (07:19):
Were?

Speaker 3 (07:20):
They pretty standard? Tony Peterson, Turkey Fair.

Speaker 4 (07:23):
You know with the girls, it's like the blinds, the
scouted out thing like it's it's mostly a matter of
time on those spots. You know, we had we had
good hunts. My one daughter. The one thing that was
really fun about my one daughter, not the one who
killed the bear in the two turkeys, but she has
struggled the most with shooting, so she's just she's she

(07:46):
rushes her shots a lot, deer, turkeys, whatever she like,
wants to get it over with. And so last season
she killed a little velvet spike in Wisconsin the first
night we hunted over there, and she made a good shot.
He died right in front of us, so she was
happy about that. And then she killed a late season
deer in dough in Minnesota, made a good shot that
deer died in front of us. And then this spring

(08:08):
turkey hunting, we had two gobblers come in that hung
up at like forty yards, you know, wide open, you
know it was it was anybody else, you'd be like,
you just kill them, right, But with her, I'm like,
that's like right, kind of at the line. But finally
one of them finally posed up and stood there forever,
and I was like, honey, if you think you can
dump him, just dump him. And she did. And so

(08:31):
her confidence has gotten way higher. And seeing that, because
that's been a real challenge with her, and seeing her
just stringing together multi weapon good shots on different species
has helped a lot. So But yeah, like I mean,
you know how this is dude. I had a ton
of fun hunting with him. You know. I kind of

(08:52):
knew we were going to kill birds in Minnesota because
where we're hunting, but I went and kind of took
a flyer. I hunted Nebraska and Kansas in probably planned
less for those hunts than I ever have in my life,
just kind of like just go into an area, find
a place to camp, find a place to hunt, figure
it out. And I had so much fun. Yeah, like

(09:16):
so much fun. And I know we're gonna get into
this later on the public land thing, but that is
just like to me, being able to go do that, right,
It's a gift, no question. But while I'm down there
in Nebraska, I found a spot where I'm like, I
think I can't do it this year because we're filming
a project, so I got to save my tag. But

(09:37):
I found a place where I'm like, I think I
can kill a big one early when it's super hot,
and I'm like, that's that's cool. That's a part of it.
You know. The turkey thing was really fun, but that
was cool too. And then in Kansas where I killed
my bird, there were pheasants and bob white quail all
over and you know the quail thing. People talk about

(10:00):
this all the time, like there's no quail left, there's
no Bob Whites on public and I've you know, like
I've found them in a few states and hunted them,
and you know, it's been a few years now, but
I'm like, I'm probably gonna have to wait till January.
But I'm like, I'm going down to Kansas with my
lab and I'm gonna go shoot quail on public land.
Somehow I'm gonna figure it out. And it's like I'm

(10:21):
actually really excited about that. And I always think about
that because you know how this goes. You go for
a reason, right You're like, I'm gonna go kill a
buck on public land in Ohio, or I'm gonna go
take a flyer on some state, and inevitably when you're there,
when you're driving there, or you're driving back and forth
from camp to where you're hunting, you see some kind
of critter, you see something where you're like, I'm gonna

(10:41):
fish here, I'm gonna hunt here, I'm coming back, and
it's like this thing that never ends. And you know,
public land is like this hot topic right now, but
I'm like it's so valuable for that reason, Like you
you might not use it, like you might not have
any interest to ever go hunt public gland white tails.
And that's great, but that's not the only thing going on,

(11:05):
you know. And I can promise you I'm I'm going
to go kill Simbob white quail on public land. And
people will be like, you can't do that. I'm gonna
be like, I'm doing what you say you can't because
there's public land available with quail on it, you know,
And I think that shit's amazing.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, man, it's so it's so amazing that we have
just the opportunity to dream about that, like to sit
here and be able talk about, Okay, this is a possibility.
We're not rich, we don't have some huge private preserve.
We don't have millions of dollars or millions of acres
of all this kind of stuff like you might need
to have over in Europe, gonna have high dollars, a

(11:43):
serious bank account to be able to do some of
these things over there. But any Tom Dick or Harry
over here can go off and have these kinds of adventures.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
It's it's so funny. Growing up you it just was
like the way it was.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
I never thought twice about it, never thought about how
it was that we get at these places, or how
special this was, or how unique that is. But man,
I'm gonna I'm taking off tomorrow afternoon, heading out towards
our place out in Idaho, and you know, for the
next two months, any random day, any weekend, We've got

(12:17):
free places we can camp, and free places I can
hike and go fishing, or scout for a future hunting trip,
or you know, go rafting down a river. I mean,
absolute bucket list stuff I can do for basically the
cost of a tank of gas and feeding myself. We
can do that for weeks on end if we wanted to.

(12:39):
It's it's the most unbelievable thing that we've got going here.
It's it's pretty special. It's badass. Yeah, man, Well you
know what what else is badass? What For the first
time ever, the Kenyan family killed two turkeys in the
state of Michigan this year. And it's not because I

(13:03):
poached and killed two myself. It's because we're only allowed
to kill one turkey per person in Michigan. So that
means I killed my turkey and my son killed his
first turkey.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Ever. How old is he he's seven?

Speaker 4 (13:20):
Oh man, Yeah, so he's been.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
No, he didn't, he was. I mean, he was really excited,
but it wasn't like crazy. It was like just very excited,
very proud, just like a huge smile on his face.
And then like the kids say dude and bro all
the time now, so he's like, dude, bro, dude, I
can't believe that just happened.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Dude. That was so amazing. Dude.

Speaker 2 (13:50):
But uh, but it's so cool because you know, you know,
like you with your girls. He's been out there with
me every year since he's been born, Like when he
was four months old, wrapped him to my chest and
we'd walk around the woods and I'd try to strike
up gobblers and so he was hearing gobbles when he
was four months old. And then the next year when
he was able to toddle out there with me, he
was sitting down there and I would do these practice

(14:12):
turkey hunts. We've talked about this in the past, where
I would just take the boys out and try to
call in birds, you know, without even a gun. We're
just like trying to get birds in there close and
get am used to that and have fun with it,
and you know, year after a year, we've had more
and more of those experiences, and then you know, I
don't remember how long ago it was, but maybe four
years ago he started coming out with me for like

(14:32):
real hunts, and then last year we had our first
successful hunt together where my oldest was with me when
I killed a bird and that was really cool. He
was like, we struck up a gobbler and the spot
we weren't expecting, so we had like belly crawling prone.
This wasn't like in the blind kind of thing. I
think I told you this story last year, but the

(14:53):
broad stroke, so that we were laying prone, he was
laying on my back, had a bird like come into
this field in front of us, kind of did a
one to eighty around us. We had to like continue
belly crawling through the woods to get to an open
position and finally got a shot this bird and that
was so cool. So this year, you know, he's been
asking to go hunting forever. He's been like, of my
two boys, they're both into the outdoors, but Everett has

(15:15):
always been like really obsessed, like pretending to be hunting
since he was like two years old with a pretend
bo or gun and just really into everything. Shooting is
bb gun, then shooting at seventeen and at twenty two,
and we got him a calm, humble last year when
of those like little Mini, I think it's a diamond
or whatever the botech offshoot is. Yeah, and he's been

(15:39):
shooting that good. So he's just been he's been ready
and wanting to hunt deer, but I'm not going to
do that yet. But I thought like turkeys would be
something I think he's really ready for. He's been doing
it with me for a really long time. So the
question was just like, all right, if we can get
him comfortable with a four to ten, I think he's
like mentally ready. He's done all the hunt stuff with

(16:01):
me a thousand times. He's been on a lot of
deer hunts. Now he can he can handle himself in
the woods well, so if I could, if he'd be
comfortable with the four to ten, then then we're gonna
do it. And so, long story short, my wife's dad
gave him an old four ten of his and this
winter and spring he was practicing with that and very
comfortable with it, and so we were gonna go for it,

(16:25):
and had a lot of fun hunts to spring with
him kind of prioritize, like getting him a bird before
me of course. So I mean, just like you've had,
we just such such great memories, so much fun. We
don't do it the way you do it, as I
understand the way you do it with like sitting in
a blind for long periods of time. I'm a d

(16:45):
D when I turkey hunt, so I'm like the we
call it walking squawk, So just kind of walk around,
you know, like call try to strike something up, and
if you do, you know, make a move on him
and just kind of running gun it. And so we
had like some really fun hunts that way that didn't
quite come together but close. Like one time both of
the boys want to go out, so I had my

(17:07):
seven year old and my five year old and we
struck up a bird. We actually were hiking into a spot,
came over hill and saw some toms in a low
spot in the fields trotting around. So then we backed up,
circled into this timber, got set up on a tree,
tried to call him in. They gobbled back, So I
thought that was on. But then I looked behind me

(17:27):
and on the other side of this little woodlot word
and I'll cross another field. We got another gobbler that
came in like on a string. This bird comes barreling
in and gets to fifty forty five fifty yards kind
of circles around us, but too far away. So a
bunch of cool stuff like that happened. But this is
a long winded way of getting to the final ultimate hunt.

(17:50):
I decided to do like a turkey weekend with my dad.
I invited my dad down to come and turkey hunt
with me and ever see if we could get him
a bird and my son a bird.

Speaker 3 (18:00):
So for that, I was like, all right, I'm gonna
set up a blind in like.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
This best spot I know of, and we'll actually do
some sitting and waiting in this spot because it it'd
be hard to do the running gun with my dad
and Everett. But so set up a blind back in
this location where historically there's been birds roosted pretty close
in the past. Usually sometime in the late morning, something
will circle through here. It's actually right in the same
plot where my son and I killed one last year,

(18:25):
and long story, shorts struck them up off the roost.
They're goblin like crazy, really exciting. This is our second morning.
First day, it didn't happen. Second day, this is when
this all happened. And they're goblined like crazy off the roost.
But then they went quiet filed some hens off. It
seemed like maybe an hour later, here comes some birds
into this little opening, little plot, and it was six jakes.

(18:50):
And I told, you know, ever, like, hey, if you
want to take a jake, awesome. If you want to
wait for a tom, that's great too. It's this is
really your hunt, whatever you want. And so he was
kind of like, I'm going to see what at how
I feel in the moment. And these birds get to
the edge of the plot and then hang up, and
they just don't want to come in. They're just like
looking around, and some deer had spooked. A deer got
down window of us. Deer had spooked not too long

(19:11):
or not too long before that, so this.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
Deer had been there.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
They're kind ofly edgy and they hang up, look around.
I call, They start walking my way and then they
walk away from us.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
I call again.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
They come back to the edge, poke around, and then
turn and go back the other way.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
And this would literally have.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
I had two of our Dave Smith's a jake and
a feeding hen like ja, yeah, the corset jake and
the feeding hen and and yeah, they just didn't want
to commit to it for whatever reason. And they stood
there right on the edge of this plot. It was
about twenty to thirty minute interaction. And this whole time,
like as soon as they showed up, my son had

(19:51):
to get ready. So he was ready gun out the window,
holding still, and then he can't move, so he's, you know,
try and hold still, and he's getting tired, and so
I I have to like kind of slowly reach over
and give them some support to hold the gun for
a while. And and finally they look that they're gonna leave,
and so that I just kind of went cram like, well,
hell mayor with the calls, they're just like kikiki run

(20:13):
run around, like just just going cutting and cutting and cutting,
just like annoying, just you know, nothing to lose.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
And then that turn them around.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
They came barreling into the decoys finally, and uh, problem
is they all stayed in one big cluster ball, so
all six of them were doing you know what those
birds do, Like have you ever seen one of those?
There's a clip from like a plane earth show or
something where there's all these flamingos all marching together in
line in formation, like they're in a huge cluster, and

(20:40):
all their heads are pointing went and they all are
moving like this, and they all move together on the
right as if like they're like like an army parade,
you know how they're all like strutting together.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
It was like that with these six jakes. They would
not separate.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
So like every time a bird kind of separate, everyone's like, okay,
can I take that one to the left, and like yeah,
like no, no, no, no no, And then like what about
that one, Like okay, yeah, take him?

Speaker 3 (21:01):
Then no, no, no no. So that went on for
four and a half.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Minutes because I filmed this whole part, and finally, what
looked like probably the biggest of the jakes finally like
kind of half strutted and puff puffed up next to
the Deeks and the other five were just far enough away.
I'm like, that's the one, and uh, and he dropped it.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
It was super exciting. He was excited, and like I said,
he was saying.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Dude and bro a lot and uh and it was
a really nice, you know, just good big Jake, and
it was awesome, awesome experience. He handled like a pro.
He was very very proud, very excited to be able
to m Yeah. I helped him a little, but he
carried it mostly himself and just just great to see

(21:47):
like that next step taken for him. He's been you know,
following along with me for seven years now, and uh,
I mean it's I can see why you've been, you know,
loving all his years.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
The way you have this is so fun.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
I mean, pretty are special.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
That situation where when you have a kid it happens
with Newby just any Newbye Turkey Hunter two when they
come in all wadded up is like intense. A couple
of years ago, after my daughter's had that just melt
on where they shot nine times and we got one Jake.
The next night, I took my daughter back out and
I'm like, you gotta get back on this horse, buddy,

(22:25):
because that was a that was a bad performance. The
day before I called in fourteen. So there's five or
five Toms and nine Jakes came into the decoy and
it was just like holy shit, like we gotta like
do not touch one off until we get one that's separate.
Because we could kill like six at one time.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
You can get your nine shots back all in one dude.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
Yeah, But so that's that situation is intense. But that's awesome, man.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah it was cool. And uh and yeah, now he
wants to you know, of course, he's like, now I
got a turkey, then I can shoot a deer too.

Speaker 3 (22:59):
You know I can't. But no, we're gonna We're gonna
wait a lot. How old were your girls when they
took their first year?

Speaker 4 (23:07):
I think I took him hunting when they were eight.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
But like they were on the trigger, yep, okay.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
Because I had taken them hunting before that. I think
the first time they actually did hunt was when they
were eight, but they didn't kill anything until they were nine.
And the time that I took them first was one
weekend in the whole season and it was just a
short deal. They didn't really get after it till they
were nine. But they both killed deer when they were nine.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
Okay, So yeah, that's gonna be. I gotta figure that
out when when I want that to be. I know
he can handle himself. I know he can do it.
He can he can you know, he can shoot a
rifle really well, he's shooting a seventeen rifles, not shot
a three fifty or anything yet. But he can handle
himself on a rifle really well, Like he's physically able.

(23:55):
For me, I just want to more still figure out
when he's mentally mature enough, you know.

Speaker 4 (24:00):
Yeah, I mean the deer things different than Turkey's man.
Like if I were if I were you, I would
get one of those death grip bog pods and make
sure that the SHOT's going to be like fifteen yards
kind of thing, like just you know, And we haven't
had this happen yet. We've been pretty lucky so far.
But my girls haven't spined one. We haven't had a

(24:21):
really ugly death yet, which was my big fear. And
I think now you know, they've been through it enough,
I you know, And it might be different with boys too,
like your your son might shake off. You just don't
want to risk it, you know, like you want to
keep away from that spine. You want to make sure
that it's a yeah, it rides away seventy yards and
tips over.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Were you on the podcast when I was talking about
what happened with me and my son last year on
a dough I shot and it charged us. Tell you
that story, dude, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
The very like the thirty second version is that I
shot a dough.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
It was like snow and a ton.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
So I wanted to pick up the blood trail fast
or sooner than I would usually, just because I don't
want to lose that blood. And we walked up on
her when she was still alive, and so I took
a second shot to finish her off, and she stood
up and charged right at us, and literally like I had,
I had to step in front, I pull my son
behind me, stand up with my arms up and screaming

(25:31):
at her, yelling to try to stop it. And then
it collapsed like within five yards of us. It was
crazy and so and so you think she intentionally was
charging you, I don't think. I don't think she was
intentionally charging me. Like she never even looked at me.
She was just like it just happened to jump up.
And he was like running like head down almost, you know,

(25:53):
just we just happened to be right there. So he
saw some crazy stuff at that time around right.

Speaker 4 (25:59):
I know Tom Doc and the dog trainer. He was
shed hunting a couple of years ago. In one of
his I think it was a standing corn food plot
he had, and his dog bumped up a buck and
it came through that food plot and hit him, just
barreling out of there and knocked him assive her apple cart.
But I was hunting one time in college. I had

(26:20):
gotten permission on this We'd been trout fishing this stream,
and I kept finding all these crossings on there. So
I just went up and knocked on the door and
they let me hunt this place. And it was down
in the you know, bluff country along the river. I
was down in Winona, and so you're in all these
big valleys. And I walked into this valley one time
and just sat on the ground in this place to
kind of cross through once in a while, sitting there,

(26:42):
and I had a little buck coming in bed behind me,
and I had already filled my buck tag, and so
I just watching him. He came in, and you know,
he was like fifteen yards away, and he got up
to leave, and I bleeded at him just for the
hell of it, just like for something to do. And
when I did, I heard another deer start just barreling
down the hillside like above me, you know how it is,
And like a you're like in an amphitheater almost yeah,

(27:05):
And so I looked and there was a dough coming
like full bore, and so I drew and she came
around the tree at like as fast as a deer
can go and hit the brakes and I could have
just reached out and touched her, and she kind of
like recoiled when she figured out I was standing there,
and she hopped like ten yards and I laced her
and she ran and tipped over, and I was like,

(27:27):
that was crazy, Like she came she heard me make
that bleat, and she came down so hard, and I
was thinking about it, and I had found it was
a long highway fourteen this farm was, and I had
found a like a yearling doe dead in the ditch
like that day coming in, and I'm like, oh, I

(27:47):
wonder if that deer's fawn got hit And she hadn't
like pieced it together, because that you know, I've bleeded
at a billion deer and I've never had a response
that was like she was like, holy shit, there's what
I'm going to now, and it was like a crazy response.
It was the only time I've ever had that, So
it could be maybe that wasn't it, but I was like,

(28:07):
maybe she had lost her fallen like a day before,
and thought maybe, you know.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
Yeah, I've I've had really good success with like that
kind of fawn and distress.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Blate that that will. They will come tearing into it,
They really will.

Speaker 4 (28:23):
Yeah, it was wild.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
So speaking of deer though, let's I'd love to hear
you know, what's like the big thing you're most looking
forward to coming up this year when it comes to
deer hunting. What's your big exciting trip or priority or
thing you're working on this summer or looking forward to.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
You know, honestly, this is gonna be so boring other
than with the girls. And I should say this too.
I got permission to hunt a badass place for bears
here in Minnesota, which I am like a little torn
on because I don't like the thirty second version of this.
I ran into a guy used to fish a lot

(29:05):
of tournaments against earlier this spring, and he sold his
business quite a while ago for a lot of money,
like walk away and never do anything again. So he
owns thirteen hundred acres in one spot an hour north
of me A in the no quota zone in Minnesota.
So essentially you can buy an over the counter bear
tag every year because they don't want bears south of

(29:27):
a certain point. Gotcha. So he was like, he killed
like the number five biggest non typical in Minnesota ever
a few years ago, giant like it was something it
was in the one eighties, net one of those deer
that's just like a you know, mass for days kind
of thing. Anyway, talking to him, you know, we were
talking about deer, and then he said, you know, my

(29:48):
only problem is I'm covered in bears there and nobody
will shoot him. And I'm like, hey, buddy, I've got
two thirteen year old girls who will shoot all the
bears that we can, and so we have that. So
I'm actually like, we're excited about that because I'll be
able to do real like bear work, Like I'll be
able to set things up and bait it and it
won't be like i won't be driving several hours at

(30:09):
a time and not there for many days at a time,
like all my bear hunting has been like very kind
of piecemeal because nothing's close to me. And so I'm
actually kind of excited for that, other than potentially having
dead bears to deal with, which I'm not that excited about.
But we'll make it work. We'll eat them, they'll get
their bear rugs or whatever. So I'm excited for that

(30:31):
and just hunting with them in general, because we're starting
to do you know, you talked about like put your
back to a tree with your son versus sitting in
a blind. Last year, we started doing natural blinds deer hunting.
This year, I'm setting up tree stands for my girls
so we can sit together. So we're like expanding that
thing because I'm sick of sitting in blinds and so
are they. And after they both killed deer out of

(30:53):
natural blinds last year, they're like, Dad, this is how
we're going to do it, you know. So that process,
that's kind of what I'm going to be working on
next week. I'm excited for that. But like personally, you know,
I've talked about that that big wood stuff that I
hunt over in Wisconsin a lot, and you know my
struggles on the public land over there. Last year, I
found a concentration of good bucks, you know, almost almost

(31:16):
got one, like a one point thirty with my daughter
sitting on the ground in there, just super freaking cool.
I went back there to hunt, Uh, had a great hunt,
almost killed a nice eight point in my first morning,
hit a deer that night, wrecked my truck over didn't
I didn't get to do what I wanted to. But
I went back there this winter and this spring and

(31:37):
I scouted and I put way more time into that area,
and I'm like, my focus is get the girl some
deer early, and then I just want to go have
like a good like give that area a good effort
because it's just that fun, big wood stuff. And last
year it was like, I mean, I hunted Iowa. Last year.

(32:00):
When I left Iowa, I went over to Wisconsin in
the Northwoods, where the deer concentration is like ten percent
of what you're going to run into where I was
at Iowa. Like literally, I'm not even really being facetious.
And the sign that I found in the concentration of
bucks that I found was better than what I found
in Iowa. That's crazy. I just I have a few

(32:21):
theories on it. I don't know if I'm right or not.
But the easy access died a couple of years ago
when we had this crazy heavy snow that just weighed
everything down. And it's like to get to these deer
now even though they're not very far away from a road.
Is just a different thing than going down a very
clear two track with a four wheeler or just walking

(32:43):
in and I think that was the difference maker. And
so that's part of the reason I did a lot
of walking in there this year, because I'm like, are
there people even hunting in here anymore? And every tree
stand I found, which there's supposed to be none, every
one of them is a stand I've seen for years,
So I'm like, I didn't see anything new, and I'm like,
I think people are just staying out of here, and
that's why those bucks moved in here and were concentrated.

(33:06):
And so I don't know how long that'll hold up,
because it'll get open again, but that that little challenge
is like my most exciting thing right now.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
Yeah, are you gonna run cameras out there?

Speaker 4 (33:19):
Can't? You can't on this. So this is private land
open to the public. Wisconsin has a great program for that,
and so I think I should check this, but I
think technically you have to get permission from the landowner
whoever owns it, to run cameras. So I just don't,

(33:40):
which is weird, right, because you're like showing up and
you're like, there's sign, there's everything. But every deer that
shows up is like a kind of a mystery deer.
But I don't mind it, you know what I mean,
Like it's just kind of like you just whatever, you
play by that rule now, you know, but it's it.

(34:00):
And also, I'll tell you this, not being able to
do that has forced me to just walk in scout
a lot, you know, because you can't go in and
be like, well, I'm just gonna monitor this trail for
a month and if this doesn't work, so I'll move
my cameras. And so it's like a different thing, you know.
But that that just that area just got under my

(34:23):
skin and I'm still dealing with it and I can't
get past it. I got to figure it out.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
So that's fun, those those new little challenges, I mean
to what you saw with the camera thing. I love
my cameras. I'm gonna keep running cameras, of course, but
I do find myself more and more interested in just
some places, not doing them on purpose, right, just to
keep that mystery in some spots, you know, because last year,

(34:50):
like on my main Michigan area, you know, in any bucks,
I was interested in shooting disappeared early on, and then
I just found myself like increasingly less and less excited,
less and less interested. Like I'm going out there, I'm
like not even feeling like there's a chance. I'm kind
of going through the motions because I haven't got pictures
of a deer in seven weeks. I would shoot, But

(35:11):
here I am. While if I had just gone into it,
you know, with a different set of expectations and just
been out there for the fun and the mystery of it,
you know, probably would have enjoyed those hunts a lot more.

Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
I mean, there's there's pros and cons to everything, but
that mystery is nice sometimes.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
I like ha them both. Man. You know, I'm going
to go drop a shitload of moultries off on private
land over there next week, and you know, for the girls.
You know, I if obviously, if I found a giant
or something that I could work with, I'd probably pay
attention to it. I just don't anticipate that, but I
like that, man, Like I like, you know, I'm going

(35:50):
to go down probably probably sometime after the fourth Steve
and I are going to spend some time in Nebraska,
this pole on a private place, and I'm really excited
to run cameras there because I think it's going to
be really good. And there's a you know, a river
running through this place, and so I look at that,
I'm like, I'm so jacked to start getting pictures from there.

(36:11):
But I'm also looking at a time window when I
can head out to North Dakota and hunt where I
like to hunt, where I'll have no intel, you know,
I'll show up in glass and so I think, I
don't know, man, you know how this goes? Like it's
really nice to give yourself a few different options like that, because,
like you said, you know, if you're primarily sitting there

(36:32):
and you're like, all my Target bucks are gone and
I know it because I have a lot of cameras out,
then there's like something missing for that part of your season,
like you just don't have the desire to go. But
if you're like, well, I don't have any Target Bucks
right now, but I'm heading out to North Dakota in
a week and I don't know what's going on there,
but I don't care because I'm gonna have to go
find them. In the moment, it just like sort of
balances that stuff out a little bit.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Now we've talked about for years like that having options
or having diversity, just just just having some different things
makes at all, you know, a lot more fun in
many different ways. So I will be running a lot
of cameras in one state this year because I'm my
friend should be drawing Iowa. Yes, So I'm excited to

(37:15):
get back there. I've not hunted Iowa in too long
because I after my last time in Iowa when I
missed a giant eight point on the last day of
one week in November that first year, I was kind
of butt heard about it the next year and forgot
to apply for a point that year. So I've had

(37:36):
to wait longer than usual, but finally got back on it.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
And this year should be the year.

Speaker 4 (37:41):
Knock on wood, Are you gonna hunt back down in
the same area again.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah, same area, So I've got access to a couple
of different spots down there with our mutual friends and
we'll be looking for redemption.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
So about that.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
And also, like you know, that year in one week
in November because of the fact that you know, we
were there for work and we were filming that show,
and you know, things you know, weren't going my way.
So I felt like, you know, there was just zero
room for any fun. It was like, I'm hunting all
day every day. If I'm not in a tree, i'm scouting,
I'm moving, I'm you know, getting back late because you know,

(38:19):
we're in deep and we're sneaking out as quietly and
slowly as possible, and we're in their way before, you know,
just like everything was two thousand percent focused on how
do you kill a good buck here? Right while at
the same time, a couple of my friends from Michigan
were also there in Iowa with our buddies that live
there in Iowa. And so like my whole friend group is,
they're hunting together, and they're going out to eat at night,

(38:42):
and they're meeting up for lunch and hanging out and
having a good time and they're just having a terrific experience. Meanwhile,
I am, you know, killing myself to try to kill
a deer, not doing any of that stuff for them,
and uh and then I didn't even kill it ere
So this time around, I'm going there for the full experience.
I'm gonna, of course, try to fill a tag and

(39:03):
so you're gonna film stuff.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
I'm not gonna film it.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
No.

Speaker 4 (39:06):
Wow, dude, I know that you hear this a lot
about one week in November. I mean that's the one
project people are always like, when are you bringing that back?

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (39:15):
And I mean I would do it again because I
think it was a really good show. But that week
sucks so much. I mean you're yeah, I mean it's
just you know, it's a dumb thing to bitch about.
But I'm gonna anyway, when you when you get into
that week and you're you're dragging a cameraman around and

(39:36):
you have that pressure to kill it's, uh, by the
end of that week, you are like, I am done
with this, like done.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
And it feels like one month in November.

Speaker 4 (39:49):
It's a it's a heavy lift, man, I mean it's
it's so great when you kill one, like it's that
it's really fun when you kill one or you have
a really cool hunt where you're like, that's gonna be
a good show. But man, it's it's just a lot.
And then you know, like when you when you have
a tag, like an Iowa tag, where you're like there's
like an extra pressure to that. I just did a

(40:10):
Foundations episode on this on like the premiere tags and
the you know how you know, Buffalo County used to
be the place in Pike County and you know now
it's like Iwan Kansas and there's a few places you
can go to where it's like still that premiere feeling.
There's like an added level of pressure to that that's
not for everyone, you know, like it's it you know,

(40:34):
like we said, it kind of balances out, but you're
still like, I'm only going to get X amount of
Iowa tags in my life. They're expensive. You want to
put a lot into them, and you want to get
the most out of them. But it's also like just
this weird level of pressure to do just that and
then end up with that grip and grin of something
big to show for your time there. And it's like,

(40:57):
I don't know, man, it's it makes me appreciate some
of those trips to like Oklahoma or wherever where you're
like I'm just shooting anything, I'm just here for the hunt,
versus like this added component of like I kind of
feel like I need to kill a big one otherwise
this is going to be a failure. That stuff's tough.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Yeah, Well, and that's why I'm approaching it different this
year because every other time I've gone there, I've approached
it the way you're describing it, and so this year,
I'm just like, this is where some of my best
hunting buddies live and spend all their time. It's like
a great like deer camp atmosphere. I'm going to go
there for the full thing, you know. I'm not going
to go into it like a military mission like I
do sometimes. I'm going to just enjoy myself, have a

(41:36):
fun hunt, spend time with good buddies, experience what Iowa
has to offer, like not be so worried about having
to kill a big deer, but just watching, seeing, experiencing
all the cool stuff that happens there. And you know,
if you get a buck, awesome. But I want, like,
I want the Iowa experience more than I want the
Iowa buck on the wall, Right. I think with that mindset,

(41:58):
I'll probably have a better chances of bringing some meat
home too.

Speaker 4 (42:02):
So yeah, you'll have fun. I mean when I when
I drew last year, I had a tough hunt down
there in some ways. I mean, it was just a
lot of pressure, just a lot of things going on.
I was on the end of a long run of travel.
But even you know, like how I killed my buck,
like decoy and m and like what we saw the

(42:23):
evening before and that day I was like this is
like Iowa, like this is just like what you want
to be here for. And it wasn't like I was
covered in giants, but it was like you're you're sitting
in a spot once you kind of get a dial
down there where you're like this this little area is
just humming with activity, like somebody's coming down the trail eventually,

(42:44):
and that's just and you know, I know you're you're
hunting a little bit different situation. I was on public
down there, but like I'm like watching all kinds of
animals on public all day long, where you're like this
doesn't feel you know, like some where you're on public,
you're like, I don't I haven't seen a squirrel. It
just feels different, and it is It's good to be

(43:06):
reminded to like appreciate that because you're not just that
I would take. Isn't just a ticket to go kill
a big one and bounce, you know, like you actually
have like really enjoyable sits down there.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
For many reasons, well, And that's like with those types
of hunts, and really any hunt, but especially one of
these that have like a little extra pressure or cost
or you know, rarity of getting them. You know, I
would encourage someone to milk it for everything that's worth.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Like, go do the.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Scouting trips, do the summer visits for cameras and glassing fields.
Go down there multiple times if you can throughout the season. Like,
don't rush it if you have, if you have the
available time, why you know, spend this rare opportunity on
just one week of misery. Why don't you get get
out there, enjoy it. Don't put pressure on yourself. Just

(43:56):
experience everything the place has and the people have and
the animals have.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
And that's that's the good stuff.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Like when I look back on, like many of my
best memories, often it's from like the the summer trips,
putting up cameras and glassing deer with my buddies in
the field, or going in there in the early season
and just like you know, getting to see things progress
throughout the year. Or it's the hunt when I didn't
have a show and I was just like you know,
discovering this new place with my buddies and seeing what happens,

(44:27):
and yeah, just just taking it all in because there's
so much more to it than just filling that tag.
It's so we've been saying this for years and years
and years, right, but every single year, I have to relearn.

Speaker 4 (44:37):
It, you know, dude, It's an easy thing to forget.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, So, speaking of public land, I think that's a
perfect opportunity for us to segue to a quick kind
of pivot here to a like current events update for people.
If you are not on social media, if you are
like Tony Peterson and you are not on social media
too much, you might have missed some big news in

(45:03):
the public land world that I and a bunch of
folks have been talking about lately. So quickly I want
to get folks up to speed and then give people
updates on what's happening. Still, but the Big Brewja over
the last month or so, Tony, and I know you're
aware of this, but the Big Brewja has been around

(45:25):
the most recent iteration of attempts to dispose of public lands.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Right now, Congress.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Has been debating this big budget bill through a process
called reconciliation, and this is basically something that you know,
like every administration comes in, they want to get a
set of budget related priorities passed, and there's this process
that can be used called budget reconciliation, which allows a
bill to pass Congress with only fifty one votes rather

(45:55):
than the typical sixty needed.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
So it's basically a way.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
For something to actually get passed when many times these
bills never get passed. And so what happens is that
everyone throws in their little thing. So Joe and Minnesota says, oh,
I wanted this little thing to get done. I can
never get a bill passed. I'm going to attach it
to this budget bill. And then Bill and Michigan has
wanted to get this funding approved for this project, so

(46:19):
he throws this thing in there. It becomes this big,
huge package of a thousand different things. But because they
have to get the budget passed and they have to
get funding all taken care of, it has to get
passed by whatever party controls Congress, and so these things
typically move forward. So that's what's going on right now,
and a number of different public land related things have

(46:40):
gotten thrown into this budget package. One of those, which
was added in the middle of the night is like
between eleven and midnight within the House Natural Resources Committee.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
This mandated the sale of more than five.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Hundred thousand acres of public land and it'd be done
in this case in Nevada and you So this happened
like three weeks ago when news came out about this.
You know, first we thought it was eleven thousand acres,
and then it was several hundred thousand acres, and then
there was more than five hundred thousand acres. At one
point people thought maybe is more than one million acres.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
But basically what happened.

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Is, like the the representatives from Utah and Nevada didn't specify, oh,
it's this a this these acres. They sent some very
kind of oh what's the word ambiguous language around certain
properties that had been previously approved possibly for this kind
of stuff in the past.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
YadA, YadA, YadA.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
Long story short, there were two things that were very
concerning here and the reason why so many folks across
the conservation and hunting and fishing and outdoor rec worlds
were raising such a stink about this. You know, First
and foremost, this was selling five hundred thousand plus acres
of public lands that you or I or anyone would

(47:57):
have access to, right. So that's that's a huge issue
because we're losing public access. We're losing you know, a
long term sustainable resource that you know, could be used
both for recreation, for wildlife habitat, but then also like
it's used in many other ways that produce revenue for
the for the nation too and provides grazing lease funds

(48:19):
or maybe there's oil extraction or different things like that
going on out there. So this is something that has
produced revenue, produced utility, produced space for activity and recreation
for hundreds of years, decades and decades, and it could
for decades and decades in the future that would all
be forfeit if this is sold off for a short

(48:39):
term revenue game.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
So that's number one.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
The number two, which maybe is even more concerning, was
the process that would be utilized to dispose of these
public lands, because historically there has been a process in
place for appropriate sales of public lands or swaps of
public lands. Occasionally there'll be a situation where maybe there's
like a small piece of public land that's landlocked and

(49:14):
inaccessible by the public, and there's been situations where they say, okay,
well we're going to sell off this twenty or forty
acres or whatever it is. But this process requires a
very careful review process. It requires public review and comment.
And then it also requires that any sale of public lands,
those funds go back towards future public land acquisition or work.

(49:39):
So if we're going to sell a piece of public land,
that revenue will be used for additional better situated public lands,
or to improve public land access, whatever it might be.
So it's it's kind of keeping it in the family, right. Well,
this sale would mandate the sale of all those acres,
and it would jump around that entire process, so there

(50:00):
would be none of the public review, there would be
none of the public comment an opportunity to influence it.
There would be none of the careful kind of red
tape that should be necessary to make sure that if
we have to sell a piece of public land, it
is done for the public's best interest and done in
a careful way. And then finally, the funds in this
case would not go to any future public land effort.

(50:23):
It would just go to the general to the General
Treasury fund and be used for lord knows what else.
So this sale of five hundred thousand or more acres.
We're talking billions of dollars would not go to what
it was supposed to be, which would be future public
access and lands.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
It would go to whatever.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
If this were to happen, this would set a new
precedent for how future public land sales could be conducted.
If this actually went through and got approved, then next
time around, who knows what other politician might jump on
board and say, well, hey, this has been done before.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
Here's my two.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Million acres that I'd like to use to fund this
other project. And someone else comes around the next year
and says, all right, well, we've got this issue in
such and such state. We don't think that, you know,
the federal government should have all these federal public lands here.
We should sell these off and pay for our school
issue or pay for our whatever issue. That kind of
precedent would be really, really dangerous in damaging to our

(51:21):
public land system. So because of all that, there was this,
you know, this huge uproar about it, a lot a
lot of folks talking about a lot of phone calls,
made a lot of emails sent, and fortunately it was
removed right before the House had to put their vote
in for this actual bill. They pulled it out. When

(51:44):
they go through this final kind of review of the bill,
they were able to rescind that part and the House
voted on what was left and that passed the House,
and now the bill is in the Senate where the
Senate will be debating this new version of the bill
now out. The good news that the public land sales out.
The bad news is there was a bunch of other

(52:05):
junk thrown in there that's really bad for public lands
and wildlife and hunting, fishing, and unfortunately, what sucks about
the situation is that there's so much stuff in there
there's no way, like any one of us can you know,
keep track of it all and take action on all
of it. So because they throw like so much spaghetti
at the wall, some of it's going to stick because

(52:26):
you can't you can't address it all. The thing with
the public lands sale, and the reason why you know,
we were able to stop it is because it was
like one thing that was very clear and obvious, like,
this is a problem. The sale of public lands for
these two reasons is bad. And everyone could talk about
this one thing, and everyone could take action and ask
their congressman or woman to vote no on this to

(52:49):
do whatever they could to get this out of the bill.
And because of that, there was like a ton hundreds
of thousands of emails and phone calls were made that
got people's attention. When there's like ten or twelve different
other slightly smaller issues, that gets lost in the noise,
you know. So that's the situation we're in right now.
There's a bunch of stuff that's not great. The question

(53:11):
has been in the discussions right now with a bunch
of organizations is like, Okay, what do we do to
try to get some of these addressed before the Senate votes,
because that's our next opportunities.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
If we can get the Senate to remove a few.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
More things, then when this bill eventually goes to the president,
it's not as dangerous as still right now. So I
want to bring up two specific things real quick, Tony,
thank you for letting me go on my tie right here.
Of the of the many different things still in this bill,
I want to bring to attention to specifics. One of
them is there in your home state, Tony, the Bounder Waters. Yes,

(53:47):
the Bounder Waters are freshly endangered. Longtime listeners of the
podcast have heard me talk about the bound of waters
a lot over the years, I've somehow adopted your home
state's cause. But but you know, go back and listen
to these Bounder of Waters episodes I've done over past
years if you're curious about more details.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
But the short version of the long story.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
Is that there has been a mine proposed, a sulfide
or copper mine proposed right on the border of the
Bounder Waters Canoe Area wilderness, which is a water wilderness.
It is a water logged lake and stream and river
filled incredible, incredible wilderness area. And this mine would be

(54:29):
placed on the upstream edge of that watershed. So if
there's any pollution from this mine, it flows through the
entire system potentially. And no mine of this type has
ever been conducted in the past. So every other mine
across the world that's used this form of mining, none
have avoided pollution issues. Every single one of them have
had some kind of significant issue that impaired the environment

(54:52):
around it. We're putting one of those, hypothetically right on
the edge of the most visited wilderness area in the
lower forty Estates nation.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
So that's problem, and.

Speaker 4 (55:05):
This very specific ecosystem that's ripe for that pollution because
of the water.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah, I mean, that's that's why it's an incredible place
to fish for small mouths and pike and trout and
walleye and all.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
Sorts of stuff.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
It's cold, clean, you know, amazing water that could be
threatened here by this thing. So there was this mind
those proposed number of years ago. Hunters and anglers and
outdoor folks had been fighting it for years and years
and years. In twenty twenty three, a mineral withdrawal was
put on the Rainy River Watershed, which is the area

(55:40):
surrounding us that basically said there will be no mineral withdrawals,
no mind like that in this zone for the next
twenty years at least. So that saved the boundary waters
for the time as of twenty twenty three. Well, they're
trying to change that this new bill as is currently
written as the Senate is debating it. If it were
to pay, it would remove that mineral withdrawal, opening up

(56:03):
the entire area again to mining and other things. It
would reinstate the leases for this specific mind, so that
it could be fast tracked and ray go right away.
And it requires future lease sales. Let me make sure
I've got my details on this correct. Yeah, so those
are the two main things. It removes the mineral withdrawal

(56:26):
and reinstates those leases.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
So all of that.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Work that's been done by folks over the last decade
ish would be out the door. And the way things
are going now, they're really trying to move things very quickly,
so there could be you know, real change is coming
to the special place relatively quickly if this happens. So
number one, like, that's a big one that we as

(56:49):
hunters and English could make a difference on. We could
call the Senate thing now, So we're calling our senators
and letting them know, Hey, the boundary waters is two
special places, the wrong it's the wrong mind in the
wrong place.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
Well, and so I know that I know that people
are going to play Devil's advocate on this and say, well,
you're using a lot of electronics with copper in it
every day, so you're a hypocrite for arguing this. But
it's when you dig into this issue specifically, there are
copper deposits in a lot of places that could be
mined where the risk to such a large, sort of

(57:28):
very special ecosystem isn't there. Yeah, So it's not like
we couldn't. It's not like you couldn't advocate for copper
mining someplace else to you know, feed the needs of
all the different electronics and components all that shit. This
is a this is a place where the risk reward

(57:48):
is crazy. And it's just that I mean that that Like,
that's the thing about this specifically, Like this has to
be done. Somebody's got to mind some copper somewhere this place.
Maybe not great idea.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
I think that's the thing is like, we of course
need resources, we need these things. The job will be
for folks like us is to like identify when they're
proposing it in a place like this, this too risky,
too high value of a location for for other reasons,
and advocate as best as we can that that this
kind of development is being done in the places where

(58:22):
it's safest to do so and most appropriate to do so,
not just where it's most convenient or most profitable for
a few foreign owned companies. Right right, this is not
the place for this, and we still have an opportunity
to influence it. So to anyone listening, if you've ever
been there, or if you would like to go there somewhere,
your you know, your attention, your phone calls, your emails,

(58:43):
they're needed right now. If you go to Sportsmen, oh jeez,
I should have had this URL. Just look up Sportsmen
for the Boundary Waters on Google. They've got probably the
best overview of the issue for hunters and anglers to
help understand why this is important and what you can do.
So that's number one. One other example, real quick of

(59:03):
a situation like you're talking about where resource development is
needed generally, but this is a place where they're trying
to do it that's got a really high risk, and
this would be the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
The long story short.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
On this one is that it's basically the absolute crown
gem of our public land system in America. It's the largest, wildest,
most incredible, most undeveloped, last wilderness reservoir we have the nation.
It's right up in the northeast corner of Alaska.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
Right there. The Brooks Range, which is the northernmost kind of.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Appendage of the Rocky Mountains, runs across this refuge. You
have this unbelievable mountain landscape and then the north slope
of it heading into the Arctic Ocean, there is something
called the coastal plane. And this is like when you
see the videos from like Planet Earth or Our Planet
or whatever nature documentary it is, And like when you

(01:00:01):
see the videos of the hundreds of thousands of caribou
all migrating, it's this place or place is very nearby
and similar. This is where these vast aggregations of caribou
are occurring. And caribou are not doing very well across
the world right now. I believe I saw that they
have declined eighty percent in recent decades. The Porcupine cariber

(01:00:25):
herd is the herd there that utilizes the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge. They are actually doing pretty well right now.
They are now the largest remaining caribou herd in the world.
But they are dependent on this area called the coastal
plane that I mentioned earlier. When the Arctic National Wilife
Refuge was created in the like nineteen sixties ish, right

(01:00:49):
around there, it was designated in such a way by
Congress that there was a little slice left that was
not protected as wilderness. And this little lice was like
part of these congressional debates where someone said, well, hey,
we'll help you pass this bill, but we want to
leave this chunk here that's not designated as wilderness and

(01:01:10):
it will be designated to study for future either future
protection or future use for development. Basically, it was open
to maybe it'll be wilderness someday, or maybe it'll be
open to drilling someday, because that has always been the
thing up there's maybe there's oil. And for the fifty
years since or whatever it's been, it has been debated

(01:01:31):
like one of the most hotly debated kind of repeated issues,
bringing up again and again and again, should the coastal
plane of the Arctic Refuge be open for drilling or not?
For decades and decades, the outdoor community, conservationists, hunters and anglers, environmentalists,
the whole nine yards have kind of beaten back repeated
attempts to do this. But in twenty seventeen, during one

(01:01:54):
of these budget debates, just like what we're having right now,
one of these little riders got slipped in that opened
up the coastal plane to drilling for the first time.
In twenty seventeen, that was slipped into one of these
budget bills, It passed, it got approved, but the most
recent administration canceled those leases before anything was done, so

(01:02:15):
right now the Arctic National Wilder Refuge, which is one
of the most incredible places to sheep hunt, to fish
for all sorts of species, to caribou hunt, to have
unbelievable rafting, backpacking, all sorts of incredible trips. Huge, It's
like one of the top places that polar bears are
left in Alaska. Two hundred thousand plus caribou, there's muskos,

(01:02:37):
there's wolves, there's brown bears, wild wild place. It's safe
as of last year. Now riders attached to this new
bill that is wanting to open things back up reinstate
the leases, mandate lease sales of over four hundred thousand acres,

(01:02:58):
and also strangely enough, removing any ability for public input
in judicial review. So somehow, through some interesting language in
this new version of this bill, it would remove the
ability for the public comment periods and for anyone to
have this challenge it in court someday. So not only
is it crazy to force this lease sale that for

(01:03:18):
fifty years people have been saying no, no, no, Now
they're also trying to remove any ability for the public
or people with different perspectives to challenge it at all.
So again sets like a super dangerous precedent for how
public land issues are dealt with in a place that's
like the crown jewel of the dreams of outdoors people.

(01:03:39):
And I know a lot of folks aren't going to
get to go and see this place. It's kind of
like a life list once in a lifetime if you're.

Speaker 3 (01:03:44):
A lucky kind of place.

Speaker 2 (01:03:47):
But man, knowing something like that is there maybe to
someday visit, or just knowing that they're still somewhere that's
truly unbelievably wild and available and that these things are happening,
that is that's worthwhile. Also, I mentioned the cariber herd's
the largest remaining caribou herd. All of the calving that

(01:04:09):
this herd does occurs on the coastal plane. The coastal
plane is where they're trying to open up to drilling.
So if all of a sudden the calving ground, the
place where these creators have to go to have their babies,
if that's all of a sudden turn into an oil field,
what will happen to the last remaining great caribo herd
in the nation? Serious problem. So, if you care about
caribou hunting, if you care about having wild places, if

(01:04:31):
you care about just the kind of structural integrity of
how we deal with public land related issues in this nation,
this is another one to be keeping tabs on and
to let your center to know, Hey, this is not
the right place to do this kind of development.

Speaker 3 (01:04:46):
So as far as.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
I'm concerned, I would love folks to say no to
this boundary water's mine, and say no to opening up
the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Let's keep our last best
places healthy and plan and open and accessible. They're not
making any more of them, Tony, So this last couple
we've got go, we gotta stand strong on.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
Yeah, And I would say, you know, you alluded to this, right,
Like most of the people listening to this are never
going to go up d Aanmar. Most of the people
listening this are never going to go with the BDW
in Minnesota and ketching smallies. I don't have any connection
to public land in Utah and Nevada personally, like I
may never hunt either either state. Right, But when you

(01:05:28):
keep mentioning the precedent for these kind of things, and
I always I look at this like I think an
easy way to sort of contextualize this stuff, you know,
like we know when something goes away, it doesn't come
back right, and the outdoors like it just generally doesn't.
And so I've talked about this a lot where it's
like the non resident versus resident thing, and non residents

(01:05:50):
don't have any power in any state that they don't
live in, and so they're an easy target to get
rid of. So residents can have better or easier hunting
for themselves, right, And so that's an easy push to
make and an easy connection for people to make. But
what they can't see is when you say, when you
bitch about how much pressure there is, and those guys

(01:06:10):
are the problem, and those guys go away, the next
step is you guys are the problem because people are
still going to be bitching. So you think that that's
a win, But the precedent is set that you can
use that excuse as like, there's too much pressure on
public land. We need to get rid of people because
the quality of the experience is down. You may have
a very valid gripe there, but you've also once you've

(01:06:33):
taken away one component and you've said, now you guys
who live across state lines, you're very limited or you're
going to pay you know, twenty five times what we
pay or fifty times what we pay. You've set that
precedent that this problem can be remedied by removing pressure.
And the next step is you. And so when you
celebrate that and go, well, now these guys won't be

(01:06:55):
coming in and hunting my stuff, you think that that
problem is going to go away. There's still going to
be a lot to urban sprawl. You know, that's going
to increase pressure on locking up land for the people
who are paying that higher price. Like it's not it'll
be like a temporary reprieve, but that's coming for you.
And that's a precedent. And the same thing like when
you talk about this bill for selling off land that

(01:07:17):
most whitetail hunters don't give a shit about it all
in two states where nobody's going to white tail hunt, right,
it's not. It's easy to sort of be disconnected from
that and go, well, I don't really care if they
sell off some land there. But that's not the point.
The point is that your state could be up next,
and when that happens and it's in your backyard, then

(01:07:38):
it's a different deal. And I know it's like hard.
I know that kind of sounds like pandering or whatever.
But like when these precedents are set, things change and
generally not for the better. And I will say this,
you know, I know people view that one specifically in
the Anmar thing, and b like these are all like
politically muddy, right, Like they're politically muddy. We're very try

(01:08:00):
Bible people want to take a side. But I just
look at some of this stuff and I go like,
some of these issues are just like we just have
to you just have to like look inside and be like,
do you really want uh resource extraction in some of
these places that are just left that like we can
do we can get these resources other ways. And you're
trusting politicians on either side to decide what's best there,

(01:08:25):
or you're trusting politicians to sell off public land. Like
who do you think they're going to sell some of
that stuff to their buddies? Right, Like there's gonna there's
gonna be some bad elements to this on both sides,
and I just it's it's a dangerous game. And so
like like to maybe frame this up the best is

(01:08:45):
like think about that precedent and not what it means
just for the hunters of that state or just for
this one off event that could take half a million
acres off the public goal and put in private. Think
about it in a broader scope, because this stuff's coming
for us, and it's just so frustrating. It's easy to

(01:09:07):
sort of be shortsighted on this, and I get it,
Like we all have a lot of stuff going on
in life, and life is hard, right, like people, life
is hard. But when you look at things like that
and go like, man, that like public land is a gift.
You know, if you allow people elected officials to decide
the fate of it over there, when that comes for
you, you you could be in trouble. And then you know,

(01:09:30):
and if not you, your kids, and that that's a
big risk, man. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
And there's you know, those of us who care about
this stuff who actually had like a real personal connection
to public land or hunting or fishing or whatever it
might be. We're a relatively small group of folks, right,
Or those of us who think that you know, a
place like the Boundary Waters would be better off healthy
and protected versus just being like maximized for the very

(01:09:59):
most dollars per year. Right, Business interests, the momentum of
capitalism and all these kinds of things that of course
we need to live. But like that momentum is constantly
putting pressure on these things, and if you look back
over the last couple hundred years, you can see what's
happened largely has not been good for these things that
we care about. So because of that, if we're ever

(01:10:19):
going to occasionally be able to tap the brakes and
protect some of these spots or these rights or these opportunities,
it's going to require like all of us. I think
that more and more we're going to find, like the
hunting and fishing community kind of has to look like
at any attack at these things as being an attack
on all of us. Like, Okay, mountain lion hunting in Colorado,
maybe I'm never going to go there, but I know that, hey,

(01:10:41):
this is a precedent setting issue that if that gets banned,
they could impact our stuff someday. Just like what you're saying,
if we lose the boundary waters in this kind of way,
if we lose hundreds of thousands of acres sold in
this kind of way, it could.

Speaker 3 (01:10:53):
Impact us someday.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
If it's you know, whatever it is, it's it's going
to require all hunters and anglers. Where As many of
us as we can possibly get to kind of chip
in and do their part every time around, so that
when it's your pet issue or your special place, you
can count on the rest of folks from other places
or with other interests to jump in and do their part.

Speaker 4 (01:11:13):
Two.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
I think that's where we're gonna be heading in the
next five, ten, twenty years. If we're ever going to
be able to keep some of these things that are
important to our way of life, it's going to require
us starting to act like a big family. Even if
we do some different things and we live some different places,
we all kind of need to chip in and do
our part on every one of these issues as much
as we possibly can, right.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
I mean, I'll say this on the public land thing
because people I have this conversation a lot, like specifically
around public land way tales. When I was when I
first started deer hunting in Minnesota when I was twelve,
we had my dad and I had permission on two
pretty huge properties or like big enough where we were

(01:11:55):
not we were doing well right at different areas, so
we could hunt one close to town and one was
more like a weekend thing. But like we were spoiled.
It was awesome. And when I turned fourteen right before
the season, so I had those for two years. Both
of those properties changed hands and we lost them. So
we literally went from like we weren't going to run

(01:12:20):
out of land to hunt that was private and good
to having I sat on opening day. I'll never forget
it in the pouring rain, watching squirrel hunters on public
land and just being like this whole paradigm shift in
my life at that point. And I talk to people
and I know you do too, a lot who are like,
they don't hunt public right They hunt Gramma's farm, they

(01:12:40):
hunt somewhere else. They only hunt deer, maybe turkeys, whatever
whatever's available on that property, and so they don't have
quite the connection to public And I'm like, that public
land that you don't hunt right now, not only is
it a lot of people's only place to hunt, but
it's also a hedge against not hunting. You might find

(01:13:00):
yourself in a situation where all of a sudden you
need that for some reason, and when you do, you
want it there. And I know that's like a there's
like a fear factor to that, but it's like it's
absolutely true. So you you might not utilize it at
all right now, so you see very little value in it,
But there are a lot of people who that's when
they go hunting. They don't have grandma's farm. They can't

(01:13:23):
afford the lease, right, Like, so it's just like, man,
we just need it, like we just need to look
at that like it is our every one of us,
Like it's a hedge against not doing what we love,
because there is a world in which if that goes away,
your private stuff goes away too. And without that, what

(01:13:44):
are you going to do? Golf? No thanks, screw that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Yeah, So I think that's I think that's a good
place for us to, uh, to wrap some of this up.
More on this topic to come in the future. In
a couple of weeks after Actually, me and Cal are
going to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. We got invited
to join a trip up there to kind of see

(01:14:09):
this place and experience it ourselves to be able to
bring those stories and that perspective back to the rest
of the world.

Speaker 4 (01:14:15):
So me and mister Callahan.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Are going to check it out here in mid June
and report back to everyone with what we saw and
experienced and learned.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
So stay tuned on that front.

Speaker 2 (01:14:27):
But in the meantime, let your senators know there's some
places that are not the right place for this stuff.
And we're all a big family. Let's chip in when
we can, So.

Speaker 3 (01:14:38):
Tony, any final thoughts from you before we wrap it up.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
I think we're good, buddy. I think we covered a
lot of stuff, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:45):
Man, it's good catching up and to everyone listening, appreciate
you being here.

Speaker 3 (01:14:50):
Thanks for tuning in.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
It's going to be a fun summer as we ride
this roller coaster that's rising and momentum as we approach
the fall, which unbelievably is knock on our door. So
appreciate you and until next time, stay wired to hunt.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
M