December 12, 2022 • 37 mins
Hilaria and Michelle sit down with Maria Prudente, one of the journalists that broke the Chris Noth story. She shares the immense pressure they felt knowing they were changing the face of Mr. Big, one of the most beloved TV characters of all time. But how ultimately the importance of taking a step forward on behalf of women everywhere, was something she needed to see through. Her story is a major step of the mission statement of the Witches Anonymous podcast and one you need to hear.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Which is anonymous with the Laria Baldwin and Michelle Campbell
Mason and I heart radio podcast, Hey, which is welcome back.
I'm Michelle and I'm Laria. Today we have Maria Prudente,
who's a writer, she's an actor, she's a poet, she's
a journalist for The Daily Beast, and she is a
me too advocate. You guys are going to hear that
(00:23):
she broke a very high profile me to story. She
is the epitome of a woman supporting other women. UM. Hi,
my name is Maria Prudente. I am a writer and
I live in New York City. I am also a
journalist and my most recent work is reporting the sexual
assault claims against Sex and the City actor Christnof. And
(00:44):
I'm so happy to be here. We're so We're so
pleased to have you on. I've I've had the the
pleasure of meeting you many times throughout the years, but
only recently have we started, you know, really like delving in.
So UM, I want to get into it sort of
immediately with what I was told right away from David
(01:05):
and Marcus, which is you were one of the journalists
who revealed the christ note story. I was yes. So
the first story broke in the Hollywood Record. Um, I
think December sixteenth, so we're coming up on a year
now actually when it when actually came out. Um. And
then we saw the story and my friend who I
(01:27):
reported on, said, you know, I think I want to
come forward with my story and I said, well, I'm
happy to write it. And so what we got to,
you know, writing, and a couple of hours later we
had a story ready for the Daily Beast. And she
was the third woman who came forward with claims against
Chris Nolf and so it was it was a wild ride,
but it was it was important because it was able
were then able to validate the claims to the woman
(01:49):
who came before her. So that was what was important
to me, and I think we did we did just that. Um.
So yeah, Maria, can you tell us a little bit
about your story and yourself before this happened? What what
you were doing? I know you worked a lot in
the poetry space, and just a little bit about yourself. Yeah.
So I was I'm a former actress, a struggling actress
(02:11):
in New York trying to make it. Um. I am
from Virginia and then I graduated high school and I
moved immediately to New York to study musical theater, and
uh I then I started working immediately, at like nineteen
years old. I was touring the country and shows and
that I was doing film and TV, and I really,
I really loved it until you know, I didn't anymore.
(02:31):
And I was making like three hundred dollars doing you know,
a play for three months, and I was like, Okay,
this is gonna be really hard to make a living.
So um, Eventually I decided to go back to school
and get my bachelor's degree. And I went to Columbia
and got my bachelor's in creative writing, and uh yeah,
I started doing some poetry. I was able to speak
(02:51):
at the New York City Poetry Festival back in one
which was a huge honor. And have published some you know,
short stories, personal essays, and now I'm about to graduate.
Weirdly enough, I can't believe I'm saying that in two
weeks from n y U from the journalism school. So
congratulate us. Have some n y U and us went there.
(03:16):
I finished my last two college courses there. Yeah. One
thing that you said about Chris's story is that it
gave validation to the women who came before. And one
thing I've learned from the Me Too movement is how
we are stronger in numbers. And that's one thing that
(03:36):
we try to do on this podcast is we're getting
more and more people to come forward and talk about
the themes of women in our relationships with each other,
where we get it right, where we get it very wrong,
and how we can do better and realize that we're
all on the same team. And then little by little
I started having gratitude and awe for the bravery of
these women and the end the that my daughters and
(04:02):
sons will grow up in a world that we talk
about consent and we have our boundaries and we respect
each other's yeses and nos and and you know, and
don't push things. Yeah, absolutely, UM, I think I think
consent is really important. Actually writing a story right now
about consent in UM the theater education space UM and
(04:25):
how young actors coming to New York, especially mine's focused
on actors they don't understand, you know, what consent really
is at eighteen nineteen years old, UM, and how that's
really important and how in retrospect many years later, again
like during Me Too, it took a movement for us
to realize about things from our past. Oh, maybe I
agree to doing something that I wasn't, you know, entirely
(04:45):
wanting to participate in. UM. And I think that's really important.
And I think going back to the note story, I
mean a situation like that. UM. You know, it's it's
it's interesting how you said the women that were so
courageous about coming forward. UM. You know, the number one
thing that people always love to ask after a sexual
assault story breaks is why why now? Why did the
(05:06):
women come forward? UM? And of course if you read
the Hollywood Reporter article, you would know that the women
came forward because they were triggered by the promo and
the press for the new show and just like that,
which was the Sex and the City sequel. UM. And
then of course able the woman that I wrote about
my article, she came forward because she was wanting to
validate the claims to the woman who came for her.
And so when I say that, I say that there
(05:28):
is no good timing to do this, you know, there
really isn't. And it just I think the fact that
the women were going to get a lot of black
in the press anyways, because it was coming. They were
coming out with their stories around the same time as
the TV show was premiering. Didn't matter. What they were
doing was really brave and courageous. And it gave Aba,
the woman that I spoke about in my piece, a
chance to come forward and tell her story. And then
the woman that came after her with Coria Alred, who
(05:51):
shared her story. And so it's just a it's a
crazy domino effect that you see, And that's what we
saw with the Me Too movement. Well that's what's interesting
is now we're getting to a place we went we
stared with always believed the victim, and now we're starting
to get well how do you know? Like how how?
And and that's a question I'm gonna ask you. How
did you know that you could believe this victim? Well,
(06:13):
I have a unique experience and that she was a
friend of mine, um and so I knew her the
day after it happened to her in two thousand and ten,
we spoke about it, So I had this insight. Usually
journalists won't have that. UM. So even if I didn't
have that, because right again, like I said, I'm I'm
doing a lot of reporting on sexual assault victims. Now,
what it requires is a lot of you know, I
(06:34):
take you at your word, but I also have to
further corroborate your reports and what you're saying, which means
talking to other friends, looking at emails, text messages. UM.
So in this in the in the case of Eva
in an off story, she you know, she presented a
lot of information. I spoke to other people, but I
also still to do my due diligence. I had to
speak to knowlves camp um, and I had to try
(06:57):
to present, you know, a really fair it's fair story, um,
because that's a really big claim to bring against somebody.
You don't just and I think people don't realize that.
The more and more I've talked to other people, it's
it's and like you know, journalists have to do a
lot too before they could just put something to the press.
You can't just say anything. You have to really do
a lot of reporting and corroboration. So I have a
(07:18):
question for both of you because I think you know,
obviously Chris not played Mr Big on Sex in the
City and this this and was in the first episode
of the sequel, and Mr Big was our as the
young women and the archetype of the ideal man, the
one you want, the one that you cannot quit, the
one you marry. Like if he's such an amazing idyllic character,
(07:44):
and um, for the ideal man to be the one
perpetrating this, I mean, there's just so there's so much
to it. And I just remember as like someone who
was a fan of the show, and you know that
I frankly moved to New York and met my own
Mr Big and thought that was, you know the thing
as I'm sure we can all, like you know, brought
(08:04):
those lines in our lives. Like seeing that character fall,
I think there's there's almost as more visceral for our
whole generation. Uh did you too feel that way as well?
I found it to be. It's all jarring, but in
a different aspect. I guess I knew I was gonna
break a lot of women's hearts with this one, because, um,
(08:24):
even though I wasn't, I wasn't as a former actor.
It was kind of an open secret about notes behavior,
so we kind of knew already, um, but no one
had said anything. But I knew that audiences around the world,
We're going to be devastated to learn that this person,
especially because he was so beloved and that was evident
when he dies in the first episode. Sorry spoiler alert,
but everyone kind of already died in the first episode
(08:48):
of and just like that, and then he's like, you know,
revived in this peloton ad. I mean people were so devastated. Um.
So I yeah, I mean I had convicted of emotions
about it as well. You know it. Um, I've again,
I've also had many bigs of my lifetime here in
New York as well. I'm gonna get more into um,
you know, the releasing a story that you know is
(09:12):
going to have a tremendous impact on multiple people's lives.
What's the feeling of that pressing send and putting it
out there that moment? Well, as a reporter, and my
my number one concern is the person that I'm reporting on,
the person who is in this case, Eva, who was
(09:32):
the the survivor of assault and so making sure that
she was doing okay. Um. But also I could not
have predicted that there would be as much interest as
there was. I It's like I forget I write so
must I didn't realize that he was as famous as
he was, and so when good Morning America and the
Today Show and Dateline and ABC News, all these people
are contacting me. I was really overwhelmed, thinking, Okay, I
(09:54):
don't know what I've got myself into it. And then
it just sort of blew up onto the television and
then the next thing, the mail and all these other
news places are showing how his you know, his personal
life is you know, actively imploding in front of us. Um,
he's losing business deals. I think he was dropped from
a TV show that he was on. He Um. The
Sex and the City cast came out um supporting the
(10:17):
women um relatively soon after the story broke. And so
as a reporter, I don't I don't enjoy seeing the
person that, you know, the celebrity for example, I don't
enjoy seeing their life fall apart. That's not why we
write these stories, but it is. It is a side
effect of of what happens. If that's what the if
that's what the public is doing to sort of help
triage this issue, then that's what they're doing. Um My,
(10:40):
my main, my main thing is to say, hey, there's
this we we think that there's this pattern of behavior,
and our goal here, you know, when journalism is to
bring this to light and sort of stop this behavior
from continuing on. And if that's what we were able
to do, you know, I hope that that's what we
were able to do. Did you get hate for it? Um?
(11:01):
You know I didn't. If I did, I didn't. I
didn't find it. I didn't. I certainly didn't go looking comments. Um.
That was Yeah, that was my advice to Ava. I said,
please don't make the comments because everyone's going to try
to poke holes in your story. And the weird thing is,
after you break a story, other news sites then take
your story and then they sort of regurgitate it and
(11:22):
they'll sort of reword things, so that's not like plagiarism,
and so that's sometimes how things can kind of get misconstrued.
That was really weird to read that's something I'd written
and then have them say like what I wrote again? Um,
but I noticed that that was that was a source
of worry for um, for Eva and I could I
could understand that, But you mean that that the it
was kind of like playing telephone where people were yeah, yeah,
(11:45):
because the news cycle, they have to tell the story
all over again, but they have to reword things, so
it's you know, and I just said, but just remember
that the story that we wrote is the story that's
the truth. And the new cycles so fast. To this
new cycle moves so fast, so they're rushing to write
rewrite these things. Um. And it's just again, it's it's hard.
The technology has really changed the way that we've received
(12:06):
the news, and it's and it's it has I think
added to this mistrust. Yeah, for sure. I think back
to my early twenties when I had more of my
experiences that would fall into the me too um category
and how I dealt with them and I, UM, I
didn't talk about it, and I blamed myself and I
(12:31):
would UM, I'd say, Okay, you put yourself in that position.
Next time, I'm not going to do that. I'm gonna
be smarter next time, only smarter, and I'm not gonna
do that. And I'm not gonna put myself in that
position again. You are so stupid to put yourself in
that position, and You're not going to do that again,
you know. And I think oftentimes, just women, we feel
like we owe things to people, and I would be
(12:52):
less standing up for myself. And when I met my husband, UM,
I put my debit card down at every single meal
because I didn't want to owe him anything, and that
was my fear. And part of it was like the
paying for dinner thing that was for some reason, I
was so hung up on it, and I just had
this like urge to be like, hey, I'm here because
I want to be here, not because I owe you anything.
I just want that to be very clear. This is
(13:13):
not a transaction, and not that he would even go there,
but that was all the stuff that I had from before,
and I just think it would be interesting to to use,
you know, go through those years now with with you know,
with the me too movement, and how I could have
looked at things where I blamed myself and it maybe
wasn't me. Definitely wasn't you. But that question we can answer. Yeah. Absolutely.
(13:39):
I've been having experiences like that recently with a friend
of mine. We both worked for the same person, and
he was telling me again in retrospect, hey, did you
understand you know that there were some weird things going
on with this with you know, our boss for example,
And I said, yeah, I know, I was. I experienced
those things um with him, but I but I even now,
(13:59):
even and I've been grappling it with for a long time.
I keep thinking, I don't think I think I was.
I think I decided to participate in that. So it's still,
even though you can read as many stories as you
want with me too, and you still when it comes
to yourself, you're still tied to these ideas. And it's
I still think about it all the time. I just think,
about three years old, what was I doing? You know,
(14:23):
I would do things very differently though now ten years later,
it is interesting how are how how we deal with
it as we get older. And I think that's what's
so unfortunate with so many of these people that are attacked.
They're very young, you know, categorically, and when you're young,
you don't you don't see it in the same way
I was recently, actually, and I don't know how I
(14:44):
categorized this, but a very famous man who has been
me too, d and canceled. I met at a restaurant.
We had some friends in common, and he's perfectly nice,
but came up behind me and started rubbing my shoulders publicly.
And I, you know, I own two businesses. I'm in
my thirties, are very confident with who I am, and
(15:05):
where where I stand in the world. If I had
been twenty two and like, you know, just like trying
to feel my way through life, I don't know if
I would have been able to handle it the way
I handle it was like okay, ha ha you and
then you walk away. But it's so interesting the bravado
and these people too to have been accused, canceled and
continue to do it. So it's so much more than
(15:25):
just like it's endemic in these in these in the
in society and these people that feel untouchable. But that
was a trip. But going back to just being young
and how you think, oh, well, I just deserve this
because I'm a I'm a body and this is this
is how like we're so commodified, right, especially if it's
someone who's in a position of power like your boss
(15:47):
or in the situation of Eva from the nove article
Chris note, is this here's big with you in a
in a restaurant that you're working with your she was
a lounge singer trying to just trying to scrape by
and make money, and of course he's giving you attention.
So you think, okay, well this feels nice, but then
it suddenly doesn't turn up. You know, it turns the
other direction. It can be very very confusing. Um So
(16:11):
I think, yeah, and again, it's something you kind of
learn over time, but I want women who are younger
to kind of learn this much sooner, like in eighteen nineteen. Hey,
you're about to enter the real world. Just so you know,
this might make you feel special. But well as as
a mom, these are conversations that I start having with
my kids. So I'm parenting very differently because of the
(16:33):
me too movement, which doesn't mean we went right into
the whole sex conversation. I literally just started having the
sex conversation with my nine year old and my seven
year old and it, I mean, for those of you
guys who have been following my parents journey for many years,
you guys know that was like the squeamish thing that
I like. I was so afraid, I mean everything, and
most people are just afraid to talk about it. But
(16:53):
um I knew I had to, like mommy up and
do it. But before that, even when they're younger, I
teach them to hear no, which doesn't mean that they
necessarily do it, but I know that it's planted in there.
This person said stop. This person said no, or you
said no, so I'm going to stop. You said stop,
(17:13):
so I stopped. And planting these seeds of just behavior
and learning to respect another human being as a whole
person over there, That's something I hope, I hope. I mean,
I don't know what I'm doing. I'm only have a
nine year old and below. I don't know the years
of you know, beyond, but I hope that that's going
to both educate them how to treat other people, because
(17:36):
that's a part of it as well. We're not talking
about this just as the victim. I mean, I want
to make sure that we're also not hurting people as well.
We have to look at it from both sides of
the possible you know, um spectrum. But you know, and
I want so I want to make sure that they're
not hurting people and that they're not hurt and then,
you know, a little by little, the conversation can go
(17:56):
into sex. But I was even thinking before this, the
sex that at least I had growing up was like
you learned how to put a condom on a banana.
You know. It's like literally, I would like, we didn't
talk about consent. We didn't know about these things. And
so even before eighteen years old, of whoa, this is
what you're going to get into before that, what does
it mean to have intimacy with somebody? You know? What
(18:19):
is that consent? And is this person really consenting? Are
we really in it together? Or is this something that
I'm pushing you know? Or am I you know? They
are they afraid if they don't do this, then I'm gonna,
you know, go and do that or take this away
from them if it's like a job or something like that.
M hmm. Wonderful kids. Um, because like there's this idea
(18:44):
when I of asking another about asking a little kid,
can I hug you? Or like, I don't know if
it's not something that you talk about with your kids
to know, I mean, it's really it's really hard because
you know, I grew up with the handshaking culture of
here and the kissing culture of Europe. And it's, um,
(19:07):
like I was, I was taught you you go around
little kids asking you little kids, book if two kisses
to and give two kiss to over and give two
kisses to everyone, and um, and there is a warmth.
I'm somebody, I'm a hugger, I'm gonna see you, I'm
gonna be like, let me give you a hug. It
out with the person is like, you know, handshake person.
I'm hopefully, I hope I will make sure they don't
give you a hug when you want to handshake, but
(19:28):
it is I want to make sure that we don't
lose the warmth through fear. That's a fine line, but
able to fine line at the same time, you know,
it's hopefully the way that we're hugging each other is
not you know, violating anyone too. So there's definitely there's
definitely you know, a line of that, you know in
(19:48):
in the media as well. I wonder what it's like
for people going through reliving a trauma. I mean that's
not like these people. I mean people sometimes paying victims
have come forward as like, oh, they just want attention,
and it's like if this is a real trauma, which
I think nine times another ten it is, is this
(20:10):
a real trauma, then they don't want to relive it.
I've had, you know, going back to my my experiences
of you know, my my early twenties and bad experiences
that I've had the media who seems to knock on
my door for a lot of things has has UM
(20:30):
tried to I don't want to say, although I've heard
that the word with my publicist when we sort of
fight back with it's called victim shame. And they've they've
tried to, UM, you know, open up things that that bad,
things that have happened to me that you know, other
people knew and it's not their story to tell my story.
And I think my you know, one of the fears.
(20:53):
As much as I'm you know, I want to be
applauding women who are coming forward, and I want to
use this platform and my you know, my social media
to to promote UM me too in a way that
feels supportive to to everybody who comes forward. For me,
I'm I'm afraid of it in terms of for myself
because I just don't know, you know, triggering, how how
(21:15):
that would feel coming forward. And I think, you know,
in my therapy sessions, the one thing I'm not missing
is the photographer outside of my house deciding he wants
to be in the therapy session with me by taking
a photo and then putting in the news. And I
know that even for people who are not famous who've
come forward and used their identity that is something that
they experienced that you know. I had one woman she said,
(21:35):
oh my god, the's photographers at my door. And I'm like, yeah,
that's that's what happens. This is a fact. Actually it's
not you know what you're saying and experiencing and talking
about what the trauma like. It is a scientific fact
that is, you know, it's it's addressed by therapists, meditation
coaches that I work with everyone in the healing space
(21:56):
that you every time you say it, no matter, you know,
we heal and we can tell our story. But chemically,
your cortisol in your body changes, it brings up the
trauma response, and so you're actually putting yourself into the
cycle of feeling the pain over and over again. And
I've done a lot of therapy and a lot of
work in meditation in which he worked to rewire your
(22:17):
neural pathways to heal trauma so you don't keep re
experiencing the same pain. Um but the tenet of learning
that and executing that and being able to release trauma.
And I am not a doctor, I'm but I am
telling you what I've been taught over and overthrew Joe
to spends amazing therapists and fantastic coaches in in the
(22:37):
healing space that every time you go there, you you
do harm yourself in a way. So finding a way
to a you know, really have that conversation or be
able to get to a point in which you're not
bringing up every point or saying it over and over,
because it's really hard for you to heal and move
forward and change how you how you look at things.
(22:57):
So it's it's a very very real thing. And I
think when exacerbated and like kind of put out in
the media in a way that isn't conscious, these people
just keep reliving the pain. Yeah, that's a really good point.
When I was reporting on the nose story, um, I
think because we were friends, there was already this trust
(23:19):
that existed, which probably I think helped, but I still
was really painful to have to ask for these explicit details.
What happened, How did you get into the office? Was
the door? Like? What happened? Um? Because we need to
figure out should we call this rape, should we call
this assault? Should we call this? What should we call this?
And it required all these specifics and and doing so
(23:41):
you are actively aware that you are possibly triggering re
triggering this person reliving their their trauma. Um. And I'm
even doing the same thing and reporting now having people
you're you're trying to take a trauma informed approach in
my reporting, saying you know, look, if you need to
take a you know, a break and and talking to me,
please do. And some of them will just stop and
(24:02):
say like, I'm sorry, I'm having a moment. I'm I'm
living this thing. They'll cry, um, and or oh, this
thing just came up. A lot of times I'll be
talking to someone and something brandy will just come up
for them, um, which they haven't thought about in years,
which is really interesting. UM. And the good the good
news is, I think for me, a lot of times
when I walk away from it, a lot of them
(24:22):
feel like a relief and they released something and talking
to me um if they haven't already done that in therapy.
But it really is interesting how that isn't there is
that there is that that challenge is sometimes it can
be really good what they're doing, but they can also
be you know, re re traumatizing themselves process. Absolutely, what
(24:43):
do you think is next with me too? After you've
moderated such a big part of this conversation so so
recently because it had been going on for quite a
long time before that, Or do you see a shift
in how people are communicating coming forward, or how maybe
the media is bring it in a different way. So,
I I think my answer is kind of be biased
(25:05):
if I'm being totally honest. Um, I don't know what
the future looks like for me to UM. I think, uh, look,
we've I think everything's kind of gone to the other
extreme where now we we we disbelieve everybody. Um. So
I hope that we can get back to believing women
again as they feel like we've kind of gone to
the other side, which is sort of I think we
(25:26):
all thought would happen eventually. Um. But so that's a
good question. I just recently had a conversation with someone
about the note article and they completely said, you know, wow,
you you you blew up guy's career twenty plus years.
Why why why did she have to talk, you know,
and how did you believe her? So I'm feeling a
(25:46):
little myself, a little disillusioned because I thought, Okay, well,
how much progress have we made? But she's only one person,
But there are other people out there that are like her.
Who disbelieve women and who have such distressed and so
I I don't know. I think I would encourage women
to keep coming forward. Um. And then you know, I
(26:06):
think what we've probably seen the future too. I mean,
especially if if the things I'm working, the projects that
I'm working on, get out there too, we'll start to
see more not just women, but men as well coming
forward and sharing their stories. Um. You know, something that
we haven't even discussed. I think in the cultural zeite
geist really is like same sex, you know, predation and assault. Um,
that's something that we have to we haven't even touched
(26:29):
on yet. So I think there's there's other iterations of
me too. It's not just going to be about women. Um.
But I think we should continue to believe women. Um.
And I think that we should, you know, as journalists,
we should always try to corroborate our stories as much
as possible and try to be as fair as possible
because if if there there's going to be a story
where you didn't get it right, and that does ruin
(26:49):
it for for for the others who just do decide
to come forward. UM. But yeah, so I'm not sure.
I think I think I want to be I want
to be positive. We love the positivity. There's enough negativity
out there. No, I mean, look, can I say I
think the majority again, the majority of the stuff that
has come out, we all know it's true. We all
(27:11):
know it's true. And I think that most of us
can think right now back to a time when we
could have had an example of saying that's not okay,
you know, And I think if we can get to
a place where yeah, sure, we want to make sure,
we want to keep it clean. We always want to
go in and not just say all right, we're gonna
(27:33):
just go destroy this person's life without listening. But we
gotta listen. And that's what me too is about. It's
not just making accusations and then you know, going and
you know, burning, burning that one. You know, it's literally
about going saying okay, let's talk about it, come in,
let's let's you know, let's let's create a safe space
for you to speak what what happened, and and then
(27:56):
we can help you and we can educate the next generation,
educate oursels else and the next generation so that hopefully
they can do better. Well, that's the perfect history lesson, right,
because if we're not heard if we don't listen to
the stories of before, we can't of course correct and
teach the younger generations. So like we have to have
this positivity and openness now, otherwise it'll just continue to
(28:18):
happen over and over time in a perfect world. In
a perfect world, you know, after after the NOE article
came out, what could have happened is there could have
been a bigger conversation of okay, here, what you're saying,
what let's talk about like what happened? And then the
culture could have been a part of that conversation. But instead,
you know, he was sort of exiled and excommunicated from
(28:41):
you know, the cultural conversation and nothing and sort of
went away, and then no conversations ends up happening. So
I think that maybe the future, at least, what I'd
like to see from you too, is that there is
sort of like an exchange between the people in the
public and the people who are making accusations or you know,
just coming to the press and saying something, and then
the journalists needed to sort of mediate that, I think
in their work. Um, So that's what I hope to
(29:04):
see so that we can we can prevent, Like you said,
prevented from happening. I'd like to put some like frosting
on that goal of yours too and say like, also,
let's make it. You know, we have all gone through
so much, and Hillary has shared a lot today and
I've shared a little bit about so many people I
know that have been assaulted. But you know that we
are so much more than our trauma, and these women
(29:27):
that get the spotlight put on them in these situations
are often now just like which is only remembered for
the trauma, and we are whole people with the whole story.
So let's hope that journalists like you that are so
accountable and do work so hard to tell, to bring
a full picture to light, helps create that that we
(29:47):
are not just victims. Just like I really had a
hard time with that movie Blonde Um, even though it's
based on a novel that's a very sensationalized version of
Maryland's life. Yes, we know she was assaulted and very
abused and had a very hard time the studio system,
but I thought it was so sad that this powerful, amazing,
talented person was just kind of put into this box
(30:08):
of a victim. And I think just the movie I
couldn't stop crying the whole time, and it was so
much of the story, but so much of that that
she had just been made so small and and just
you know, a vessel for trauma when she represents so
much positivity to so many people. You're so right, and
that's have been some of the best advice given to
(30:28):
me is you are not the bad things that happened
to you. I am not the bad things that happened
to me in my twenties that I have yet to
speak about. I am not the trolls, the abuser's, the bullies,
their negativity. That is not who I am. That is
something that they do to me that is not who
I am. And the same thing for everybody out there.
(30:50):
You are a whole, positive person with so much potential
and so worth it. Don't let the negativity start to
consume your entire identity. Hell yes, hell yeah, hell um. Okay.
On that note, what are we covering in the Coven Ladies?
So I'm going real which this week? So I think
(31:10):
I'm gonna leave this one off to bring Maria into it.
You know, like we've talked about it. Every week, we
have something that we're coverting and I'm going to start
with witches and us being more than our than our story.
And this is Which Oracle Cards an anatomy of a
witch cards per mind, body, and spirit, and you can
you pick a card and it kind of tells you,
(31:32):
like what you need in that moment or encourages you
to kind of explore one path or another in your
in your decision making it that day. And it's always
positive and a little mystical, and you know, it's just
it's also a very pretty box. Anatomy of the Which
Oracle Cards available probably on Amazon. I love that. When
I was when I was at the correction facility where
(31:55):
I'm I'm starting to teach you. Then I was connecting
with the people there. Um this one woman she she
ran back to her bunk and she said, they have
um yoga sometimes it's gonna be a little different, but
they have yoga sometimes. And they're like she brings as
these cards that are kind of like that that have
sayings and you know, sort of sort of spiritual meaning
(32:17):
on them, and she had saved three. She gets she
gets so excited she gets to save them and she says,
I read them over and over again to bring positivity
into my mind and to think this is somebody who
is in the same room for most of the day
and this gives her such hope and such you know,
connectedness into the kind of person that she wants to
evolve into being. Oh, it's the little things, like the
(32:40):
little affirmation that can get us through the hardest times.
And I think that all the like we've talked about
trauma victims today, what these tools are, and I think
that's something we should all will be putting on the
platform after today too. You know, many ways that we
can cope and find fun light in the world. Mariah,
what's yours? So this is this looks silly but kind
(33:00):
of kind of whatchy. This is a base, um, and
I believe it or not. And um, I think that
one of the things that brings me a lot of
joy where I find the peace. It sounds a little silly,
but I do like arranging flowers, cutting flowers and arranging them,
and I think, um, I think doing something something simple
like that is really good for you. And I want,
(33:21):
especially just talking about women who've been gone through so
much trauma, like taking some time for yourself, making, like
making something beautiful, like find some flowers, cut them, arrange them,
put them around your house and I don't know, put
them in like silly looking plases like these. Um. That's that,
and that really is it, when you're having a really
bad moment, bringing its beauty into your life for good
(33:44):
people support. It's what it comes your nervous system, which
is really what this comes down to, you know, is
my nervous system out of whack because I have been abused,
you know, and whether that is in person online, you know,
if something coming up from the past, some fear from
the future, but that can still you know, mess with
your nervous system and to settle yourself into the present.
(34:06):
That's that's such a good one. Mine today is a
book that changed my life in my twenties. UM. It's
a book called Waking the Tigerup by Peter Levine, and
it's about somatic experiencing. And I don't know if you
guys have heard it. It's become much more common than
it was, UM back back then. And I read it.
I read it again, I underlined it, and it's all
(34:28):
about UM dealing with trauma and trying to release it
from the body. Understanding that trauma is held in the
body and I can talk and talk and talk about things,
but my mind is going places and my body is
actually going with that trauma there. So how do you
talk about it and sent to yourself and teach your
(34:49):
body and teach your nervous system that you're not in
that trauma anymore? And that was a life changing book
for me and really has helped me through the years
process trauma. So whenever you know some of the stuff
that I talked about today, it every single bit brings
up trauma for me. So after this session, I'm going
(35:09):
to go and I'm gonna go do some you know,
somatic experiencing stuff that I that I learned and UM
and hopefully get my my body back into a present
state where I can be both happy and a good
human of the universe. Oh, You're always a good human
of the universe. Thanks UM, Thank you so much for
taking the time and being with us. And it was
(35:32):
just a very interesting conversation. I learned quite a lot
from you, and I really have never gotten into a
place where I talked so so deeply with about the
Me Too movement, and especially not with a reporter who
has been as close to it as you have. Thank
you so much for having me. This was really interesting
conversation and uh yeah, I'm just really grateful, thank you,
(35:54):
thank you. I feel like we covered so much and
I feel so much more kind of aware of your
side of things and how and how much I respect
journalists that think in the way you do, and that
there's so much we should be hopeful and have more
trust because there are people out you telling stories the
right way. So thank you, and now tell us how
(36:16):
everyone can find you and your work. You can find
me and my work on my website, which is Maria
Prudente dot com, and I have an Instagram page which
is Maria A Prudente. All right, thanks Mario. We look
forward to continuing this conversation with you. Thank you. Yeah,
you know what, Michelle, that was an amazing conversation. You know,
for me, who's usually on the other side of the story,
(36:38):
it's really nice to hear from journalist who is really
doing her homework and really being very thoughtful as she's
investigating a very big story that affects a lot of people,
aside from being extremely smart, and I think she really
opened up our perspective on the amount of work and
credibility it takes to responsibly talk about abuse and how
(37:03):
how to convey that and how to do it in
a way that's safe for the victim, and you know,
very clear, and I think too, you know, she she's
a reminder that there are so many amazing journalists and
people in the press that do everything they can to
make sure they're telling the best story possible. And in
a world where we hear people mistrusting the media a lot,
I think Marie is such a breath of fresh air,
(37:26):
and I think we're very lucky to have her on
for this amazing conversation which I feel that you and
I both opened up and learned so much today. Absolutely,
such a breath of fresh air. All Right, ladies, that's
it for today. Don't forget to rate reviews, subscribe, share
with your friends. We love that our coven is growing.
Find us on social media, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Thanks,
(37:50):
Which is
Which is anonymous with the Laria Baldwin and Michelle Campbell
Mason and I heart radio podcast, Hey, which is welcome back.
I'm Michelle and I'm Laria. Today we have Maria Prudente,
who's a writer, she's an actor, she's a poet, she's
a journalist for The Daily Beast, and she is a
me too advocate. You guys are going to hear that
(00:23):
she broke a very high profile me to story. She
is the epitome of a woman supporting other women. UM. Hi,
my name is Maria Prudente. I am a writer and
I live in New York City. I am also a
journalist and my most recent work is reporting the sexual
assault claims against Sex and the City actor Christnof. And
(00:44):
I'm so happy to be here. We're so We're so
pleased to have you on. I've I've had the the
pleasure of meeting you many times throughout the years, but
only recently have we started, you know, really like delving in.
So UM, I want to get into it sort of
immediately with what I was told right away from David
(01:05):
and Marcus, which is you were one of the journalists
who revealed the christ note story. I was yes. So
the first story broke in the Hollywood Record. Um, I
think December sixteenth, so we're coming up on a year
now actually when it when actually came out. Um. And
then we saw the story and my friend who I
(01:27):
reported on, said, you know, I think I want to
come forward with my story and I said, well, I'm
happy to write it. And so what we got to,
you know, writing, and a couple of hours later we
had a story ready for the Daily Beast. And she
was the third woman who came forward with claims against
Chris Nolf and so it was it was a wild ride,
but it was it was important because it was able
were then able to validate the claims to the woman
(01:49):
who came before her. So that was what was important
to me, and I think we did we did just that. Um.
So yeah, Maria, can you tell us a little bit
about your story and yourself before this happened? What what
you were doing? I know you worked a lot in
the poetry space, and just a little bit about yourself. Yeah.
So I was I'm a former actress, a struggling actress
(02:11):
in New York trying to make it. Um. I am
from Virginia and then I graduated high school and I
moved immediately to New York to study musical theater, and
uh I then I started working immediately, at like nineteen
years old. I was touring the country and shows and
that I was doing film and TV, and I really,
I really loved it until you know, I didn't anymore.
(02:31):
And I was making like three hundred dollars doing you know,
a play for three months, and I was like, Okay,
this is gonna be really hard to make a living.
So um, Eventually I decided to go back to school
and get my bachelor's degree. And I went to Columbia
and got my bachelor's in creative writing, and uh yeah,
I started doing some poetry. I was able to speak
(02:51):
at the New York City Poetry Festival back in one
which was a huge honor. And have published some you know,
short stories, personal essays, and now I'm about to graduate.
Weirdly enough, I can't believe I'm saying that in two
weeks from n y U from the journalism school. So
congratulate us. Have some n y U and us went there.
(03:16):
I finished my last two college courses there. Yeah. One
thing that you said about Chris's story is that it
gave validation to the women who came before. And one
thing I've learned from the Me Too movement is how
we are stronger in numbers. And that's one thing that
(03:36):
we try to do on this podcast is we're getting
more and more people to come forward and talk about
the themes of women in our relationships with each other,
where we get it right, where we get it very wrong,
and how we can do better and realize that we're
all on the same team. And then little by little
I started having gratitude and awe for the bravery of
these women and the end the that my daughters and
(04:02):
sons will grow up in a world that we talk
about consent and we have our boundaries and we respect
each other's yeses and nos and and you know, and
don't push things. Yeah, absolutely, UM, I think I think
consent is really important. Actually writing a story right now
about consent in UM the theater education space UM and
(04:25):
how young actors coming to New York, especially mine's focused
on actors they don't understand, you know, what consent really
is at eighteen nineteen years old, UM, and how that's
really important and how in retrospect many years later, again
like during Me Too, it took a movement for us
to realize about things from our past. Oh, maybe I
agree to doing something that I wasn't, you know, entirely
(04:45):
wanting to participate in. UM. And I think that's really important.
And I think going back to the note story, I
mean a situation like that. UM. You know, it's it's
it's interesting how you said the women that were so
courageous about coming forward. UM. You know, the number one
thing that people always love to ask after a sexual
assault story breaks is why why now? Why did the
(05:06):
women come forward? UM? And of course if you read
the Hollywood Reporter article, you would know that the women
came forward because they were triggered by the promo and
the press for the new show and just like that,
which was the Sex and the City sequel. UM. And
then of course able the woman that I wrote about
my article, she came forward because she was wanting to
validate the claims to the woman who came for her.
And so when I say that, I say that there
(05:28):
is no good timing to do this, you know, there
really isn't. And it just I think the fact that
the women were going to get a lot of black
in the press anyways, because it was coming. They were
coming out with their stories around the same time as
the TV show was premiering. Didn't matter. What they were
doing was really brave and courageous. And it gave Aba,
the woman that I spoke about in my piece, a
chance to come forward and tell her story. And then
the woman that came after her with Coria Alred, who
(05:51):
shared her story. And so it's just a it's a
crazy domino effect that you see, And that's what we
saw with the Me Too movement. Well that's what's interesting
is now we're getting to a place we went we
stared with always believed the victim, and now we're starting
to get well how do you know? Like how how?
And and that's a question I'm gonna ask you. How
did you know that you could believe this victim? Well,
(06:13):
I have a unique experience and that she was a
friend of mine, um and so I knew her the
day after it happened to her in two thousand and ten,
we spoke about it, So I had this insight. Usually
journalists won't have that. UM. So even if I didn't
have that, because right again, like I said, I'm I'm
doing a lot of reporting on sexual assault victims. Now,
what it requires is a lot of you know, I
(06:34):
take you at your word, but I also have to
further corroborate your reports and what you're saying, which means
talking to other friends, looking at emails, text messages. UM.
So in this in the in the case of Eva
in an off story, she you know, she presented a
lot of information. I spoke to other people, but I
also still to do my due diligence. I had to
speak to knowlves camp um, and I had to try
(06:57):
to present, you know, a really fair it's fair story, um,
because that's a really big claim to bring against somebody.
You don't just and I think people don't realize that.
The more and more I've talked to other people, it's
it's and like you know, journalists have to do a
lot too before they could just put something to the press.
You can't just say anything. You have to really do
a lot of reporting and corroboration. So I have a
(07:18):
question for both of you because I think you know,
obviously Chris not played Mr Big on Sex in the
City and this this and was in the first episode
of the sequel, and Mr Big was our as the
young women and the archetype of the ideal man, the
one you want, the one that you cannot quit, the
one you marry. Like if he's such an amazing idyllic character,
(07:44):
and um, for the ideal man to be the one
perpetrating this, I mean, there's just so there's so much
to it. And I just remember as like someone who
was a fan of the show, and you know that
I frankly moved to New York and met my own
Mr Big and thought that was, you know the thing
as I'm sure we can all, like you know, brought
(08:04):
those lines in our lives. Like seeing that character fall,
I think there's there's almost as more visceral for our
whole generation. Uh did you too feel that way as well?
I found it to be. It's all jarring, but in
a different aspect. I guess I knew I was gonna
break a lot of women's hearts with this one, because, um,
(08:24):
even though I wasn't, I wasn't as a former actor.
It was kind of an open secret about notes behavior,
so we kind of knew already, um, but no one
had said anything. But I knew that audiences around the world,
We're going to be devastated to learn that this person,
especially because he was so beloved and that was evident
when he dies in the first episode. Sorry spoiler alert,
but everyone kind of already died in the first episode
(08:48):
of and just like that, and then he's like, you know,
revived in this peloton ad. I mean people were so devastated. Um.
So I yeah, I mean I had convicted of emotions
about it as well. You know it. Um, I've again,
I've also had many bigs of my lifetime here in
New York as well. I'm gonna get more into um,
you know, the releasing a story that you know is
(09:12):
going to have a tremendous impact on multiple people's lives.
What's the feeling of that pressing send and putting it
out there that moment? Well, as a reporter, and my
my number one concern is the person that I'm reporting on,
the person who is in this case, Eva, who was
(09:32):
the the survivor of assault and so making sure that
she was doing okay. Um. But also I could not
have predicted that there would be as much interest as
there was. I It's like I forget I write so
must I didn't realize that he was as famous as
he was, and so when good Morning America and the
Today Show and Dateline and ABC News, all these people
are contacting me. I was really overwhelmed, thinking, Okay, I
(09:54):
don't know what I've got myself into it. And then
it just sort of blew up onto the television and
then the next thing, the mail and all these other
news places are showing how his you know, his personal
life is you know, actively imploding in front of us. Um,
he's losing business deals. I think he was dropped from
a TV show that he was on. He Um. The
Sex and the City cast came out um supporting the
(10:17):
women um relatively soon after the story broke. And so
as a reporter, I don't I don't enjoy seeing the
person that, you know, the celebrity for example, I don't
enjoy seeing their life fall apart. That's not why we
write these stories, but it is. It is a side
effect of of what happens. If that's what the if
that's what the public is doing to sort of help
triage this issue, then that's what they're doing. Um My,
(10:40):
my main, my main thing is to say, hey, there's
this we we think that there's this pattern of behavior,
and our goal here, you know, when journalism is to
bring this to light and sort of stop this behavior
from continuing on. And if that's what we were able
to do, you know, I hope that that's what we
were able to do. Did you get hate for it? Um?
(11:01):
You know I didn't. If I did, I didn't. I
didn't find it. I didn't. I certainly didn't go looking comments. Um.
That was Yeah, that was my advice to Ava. I said,
please don't make the comments because everyone's going to try
to poke holes in your story. And the weird thing is,
after you break a story, other news sites then take
your story and then they sort of regurgitate it and
(11:22):
they'll sort of reword things, so that's not like plagiarism,
and so that's sometimes how things can kind of get misconstrued.
That was really weird to read that's something I'd written
and then have them say like what I wrote again? Um,
but I noticed that that was that was a source
of worry for um, for Eva and I could I
could understand that, But you mean that that the it
was kind of like playing telephone where people were yeah, yeah,
(11:45):
because the news cycle, they have to tell the story
all over again, but they have to reword things, so
it's you know, and I just said, but just remember
that the story that we wrote is the story that's
the truth. And the new cycles so fast. To this
new cycle moves so fast, so they're rushing to write
rewrite these things. Um. And it's just again, it's it's hard.
The technology has really changed the way that we've received
(12:06):
the news, and it's and it's it has I think
added to this mistrust. Yeah, for sure. I think back
to my early twenties when I had more of my
experiences that would fall into the me too um category
and how I dealt with them and I, UM, I
didn't talk about it, and I blamed myself and I
(12:31):
would UM, I'd say, Okay, you put yourself in that position.
Next time, I'm not going to do that. I'm gonna
be smarter next time, only smarter, and I'm not gonna
do that. And I'm not gonna put myself in that
position again. You are so stupid to put yourself in
that position, and You're not going to do that again,
you know. And I think oftentimes, just women, we feel
like we owe things to people, and I would be
(12:52):
less standing up for myself. And when I met my husband, UM,
I put my debit card down at every single meal
because I didn't want to owe him anything, and that
was my fear. And part of it was like the
paying for dinner thing that was for some reason, I
was so hung up on it, and I just had
this like urge to be like, hey, I'm here because
I want to be here, not because I owe you anything.
I just want that to be very clear. This is
(13:13):
not a transaction, and not that he would even go there,
but that was all the stuff that I had from before,
and I just think it would be interesting to to use,
you know, go through those years now with with you know,
with the me too movement, and how I could have
looked at things where I blamed myself and it maybe
wasn't me. Definitely wasn't you. But that question we can answer. Yeah. Absolutely.
(13:39):
I've been having experiences like that recently with a friend
of mine. We both worked for the same person, and
he was telling me again in retrospect, hey, did you
understand you know that there were some weird things going
on with this with you know, our boss for example,
And I said, yeah, I know, I was. I experienced
those things um with him, but I but I even now,
(13:59):
even and I've been grappling it with for a long time.
I keep thinking, I don't think I think I was.
I think I decided to participate in that. So it's still,
even though you can read as many stories as you
want with me too, and you still when it comes
to yourself, you're still tied to these ideas. And it's
I still think about it all the time. I just think,
about three years old, what was I doing? You know,
(14:23):
I would do things very differently though now ten years later,
it is interesting how are how how we deal with
it as we get older. And I think that's what's
so unfortunate with so many of these people that are attacked.
They're very young, you know, categorically, and when you're young,
you don't you don't see it in the same way
I was recently, actually, and I don't know how I
(14:44):
categorized this, but a very famous man who has been
me too, d and canceled. I met at a restaurant.
We had some friends in common, and he's perfectly nice,
but came up behind me and started rubbing my shoulders publicly.
And I, you know, I own two businesses. I'm in
my thirties, are very confident with who I am, and
(15:05):
where where I stand in the world. If I had
been twenty two and like, you know, just like trying
to feel my way through life, I don't know if
I would have been able to handle it the way
I handle it was like okay, ha ha you and
then you walk away. But it's so interesting the bravado
and these people too to have been accused, canceled and
continue to do it. So it's so much more than
(15:25):
just like it's endemic in these in these in the
in society and these people that feel untouchable. But that
was a trip. But going back to just being young
and how you think, oh, well, I just deserve this
because I'm a I'm a body and this is this
is how like we're so commodified, right, especially if it's
someone who's in a position of power like your boss
(15:47):
or in the situation of Eva from the nove article
Chris note, is this here's big with you in a
in a restaurant that you're working with your she was
a lounge singer trying to just trying to scrape by
and make money, and of course he's giving you attention.
So you think, okay, well this feels nice, but then
it suddenly doesn't turn up. You know, it turns the
other direction. It can be very very confusing. Um So
(16:11):
I think, yeah, and again, it's something you kind of
learn over time, but I want women who are younger
to kind of learn this much sooner, like in eighteen nineteen. Hey,
you're about to enter the real world. Just so you know,
this might make you feel special. But well as as
a mom, these are conversations that I start having with
my kids. So I'm parenting very differently because of the
(16:33):
me too movement, which doesn't mean we went right into
the whole sex conversation. I literally just started having the
sex conversation with my nine year old and my seven
year old and it, I mean, for those of you
guys who have been following my parents journey for many years,
you guys know that was like the squeamish thing that
I like. I was so afraid, I mean everything, and
most people are just afraid to talk about it. But
(16:53):
um I knew I had to, like mommy up and
do it. But before that, even when they're younger, I
teach them to hear no, which doesn't mean that they
necessarily do it, but I know that it's planted in there.
This person said stop. This person said no, or you
said no, so I'm going to stop. You said stop,
(17:13):
so I stopped. And planting these seeds of just behavior
and learning to respect another human being as a whole
person over there, That's something I hope, I hope. I mean,
I don't know what I'm doing. I'm only have a
nine year old and below. I don't know the years
of you know, beyond, but I hope that that's going
to both educate them how to treat other people, because
(17:36):
that's a part of it as well. We're not talking
about this just as the victim. I mean, I want
to make sure that we're also not hurting people as well.
We have to look at it from both sides of
the possible you know, um spectrum. But you know, and
I want so I want to make sure that they're
not hurting people and that they're not hurt and then,
you know, a little by little, the conversation can go
(17:56):
into sex. But I was even thinking before this, the
sex that at least I had growing up was like
you learned how to put a condom on a banana.
You know. It's like literally, I would like, we didn't
talk about consent. We didn't know about these things. And
so even before eighteen years old, of whoa, this is
what you're going to get into before that, what does
it mean to have intimacy with somebody? You know? What
(18:19):
is that consent? And is this person really consenting? Are
we really in it together? Or is this something that
I'm pushing you know? Or am I you know? They
are they afraid if they don't do this, then I'm gonna,
you know, go and do that or take this away
from them if it's like a job or something like that.
M hmm. Wonderful kids. Um, because like there's this idea
(18:44):
when I of asking another about asking a little kid,
can I hug you? Or like, I don't know if
it's not something that you talk about with your kids
to know, I mean, it's really it's really hard because
you know, I grew up with the handshaking culture of
here and the kissing culture of Europe. And it's, um,
(19:07):
like I was, I was taught you you go around
little kids asking you little kids, book if two kisses
to and give two kiss to over and give two
kisses to everyone, and um, and there is a warmth.
I'm somebody, I'm a hugger, I'm gonna see you, I'm
gonna be like, let me give you a hug. It
out with the person is like, you know, handshake person.
I'm hopefully, I hope I will make sure they don't
give you a hug when you want to handshake, but
(19:28):
it is I want to make sure that we don't
lose the warmth through fear. That's a fine line, but
able to fine line at the same time, you know,
it's hopefully the way that we're hugging each other is
not you know, violating anyone too. So there's definitely there's
definitely you know, a line of that, you know in
(19:48):
in the media as well. I wonder what it's like
for people going through reliving a trauma. I mean that's
not like these people. I mean people sometimes paying victims
have come forward as like, oh, they just want attention,
and it's like if this is a real trauma, which
I think nine times another ten it is, is this
(20:10):
a real trauma, then they don't want to relive it.
I've had, you know, going back to my my experiences
of you know, my my early twenties and bad experiences
that I've had the media who seems to knock on
my door for a lot of things has has UM
(20:30):
tried to I don't want to say, although I've heard
that the word with my publicist when we sort of
fight back with it's called victim shame. And they've they've
tried to, UM, you know, open up things that that bad,
things that have happened to me that you know, other
people knew and it's not their story to tell my story.
And I think my you know, one of the fears.
(20:53):
As much as I'm you know, I want to be
applauding women who are coming forward, and I want to
use this platform and my you know, my social media
to to promote UM me too in a way that
feels supportive to to everybody who comes forward. For me,
I'm I'm afraid of it in terms of for myself
because I just don't know, you know, triggering, how how
(21:15):
that would feel coming forward. And I think, you know,
in my therapy sessions, the one thing I'm not missing
is the photographer outside of my house deciding he wants
to be in the therapy session with me by taking
a photo and then putting in the news. And I
know that even for people who are not famous who've
come forward and used their identity that is something that
they experienced that you know. I had one woman she said,
(21:35):
oh my god, the's photographers at my door. And I'm like, yeah,
that's that's what happens. This is a fact. Actually it's
not you know what you're saying and experiencing and talking
about what the trauma like. It is a scientific fact
that is, you know, it's it's addressed by therapists, meditation
coaches that I work with everyone in the healing space
(21:56):
that you every time you say it, no matter, you know,
we heal and we can tell our story. But chemically,
your cortisol in your body changes, it brings up the
trauma response, and so you're actually putting yourself into the
cycle of feeling the pain over and over again. And
I've done a lot of therapy and a lot of
work in meditation in which he worked to rewire your
(22:17):
neural pathways to heal trauma so you don't keep re
experiencing the same pain. Um but the tenet of learning
that and executing that and being able to release trauma.
And I am not a doctor, I'm but I am
telling you what I've been taught over and overthrew Joe
to spends amazing therapists and fantastic coaches in in the
(22:37):
healing space that every time you go there, you you
do harm yourself in a way. So finding a way
to a you know, really have that conversation or be
able to get to a point in which you're not
bringing up every point or saying it over and over,
because it's really hard for you to heal and move
forward and change how you how you look at things.
(22:57):
So it's it's a very very real thing. And I
think when exacerbated and like kind of put out in
the media in a way that isn't conscious, these people
just keep reliving the pain. Yeah, that's a really good point.
When I was reporting on the nose story, um, I
think because we were friends, there was already this trust
(23:19):
that existed, which probably I think helped, but I still
was really painful to have to ask for these explicit details.
What happened, How did you get into the office? Was
the door? Like? What happened? Um? Because we need to
figure out should we call this rape, should we call
this assault? Should we call this? What should we call this?
And it required all these specifics and and doing so
(23:41):
you are actively aware that you are possibly triggering re
triggering this person reliving their their trauma. Um. And I'm
even doing the same thing and reporting now having people
you're you're trying to take a trauma informed approach in
my reporting, saying you know, look, if you need to
take a you know, a break and and talking to me,
please do. And some of them will just stop and
(24:02):
say like, I'm sorry, I'm having a moment. I'm I'm
living this thing. They'll cry, um, and or oh, this
thing just came up. A lot of times I'll be
talking to someone and something brandy will just come up
for them, um, which they haven't thought about in years,
which is really interesting. UM. And the good the good
news is, I think for me, a lot of times
when I walk away from it, a lot of them
(24:22):
feel like a relief and they released something and talking
to me um if they haven't already done that in therapy.
But it really is interesting how that isn't there is
that there is that that challenge is sometimes it can
be really good what they're doing, but they can also
be you know, re re traumatizing themselves process. Absolutely, what
(24:43):
do you think is next with me too? After you've
moderated such a big part of this conversation so so
recently because it had been going on for quite a
long time before that, Or do you see a shift
in how people are communicating coming forward, or how maybe
the media is bring it in a different way. So,
I I think my answer is kind of be biased
(25:05):
if I'm being totally honest. Um, I don't know what
the future looks like for me to UM. I think, uh, look,
we've I think everything's kind of gone to the other
extreme where now we we we disbelieve everybody. Um. So
I hope that we can get back to believing women
again as they feel like we've kind of gone to
the other side, which is sort of I think we
(25:26):
all thought would happen eventually. Um. But so that's a
good question. I just recently had a conversation with someone
about the note article and they completely said, you know, wow,
you you you blew up guy's career twenty plus years.
Why why why did she have to talk, you know,
and how did you believe her? So I'm feeling a
(25:46):
little myself, a little disillusioned because I thought, Okay, well,
how much progress have we made? But she's only one person,
But there are other people out there that are like her.
Who disbelieve women and who have such distressed and so
I I don't know. I think I would encourage women
to keep coming forward. Um. And then you know, I
(26:06):
think what we've probably seen the future too. I mean,
especially if if the things I'm working, the projects that
I'm working on, get out there too, we'll start to
see more not just women, but men as well coming
forward and sharing their stories. Um. You know, something that
we haven't even discussed. I think in the cultural zeite
geist really is like same sex, you know, predation and assault. Um,
that's something that we have to we haven't even touched
(26:29):
on yet. So I think there's there's other iterations of
me too. It's not just going to be about women. Um.
But I think we should continue to believe women. Um.
And I think that we should, you know, as journalists,
we should always try to corroborate our stories as much
as possible and try to be as fair as possible
because if if there there's going to be a story
where you didn't get it right, and that does ruin
(26:49):
it for for for the others who just do decide
to come forward. UM. But yeah, so I'm not sure.
I think I think I want to be I want
to be positive. We love the positivity. There's enough negativity
out there. No, I mean, look, can I say I
think the majority again, the majority of the stuff that
has come out, we all know it's true. We all
(27:11):
know it's true. And I think that most of us
can think right now back to a time when we
could have had an example of saying that's not okay,
you know, And I think if we can get to
a place where yeah, sure, we want to make sure,
we want to keep it clean. We always want to
go in and not just say all right, we're gonna
(27:33):
just go destroy this person's life without listening. But we
gotta listen. And that's what me too is about. It's
not just making accusations and then you know, going and
you know, burning, burning that one. You know, it's literally
about going saying okay, let's talk about it, come in,
let's let's you know, let's let's create a safe space
for you to speak what what happened, and and then
(27:56):
we can help you and we can educate the next generation,
educate oursels else and the next generation so that hopefully
they can do better. Well, that's the perfect history lesson, right,
because if we're not heard if we don't listen to
the stories of before, we can't of course correct and
teach the younger generations. So like we have to have
this positivity and openness now, otherwise it'll just continue to
(28:18):
happen over and over time in a perfect world. In
a perfect world, you know, after after the NOE article
came out, what could have happened is there could have
been a bigger conversation of okay, here, what you're saying,
what let's talk about like what happened? And then the
culture could have been a part of that conversation. But instead,
you know, he was sort of exiled and excommunicated from
(28:41):
you know, the cultural conversation and nothing and sort of
went away, and then no conversations ends up happening. So
I think that maybe the future, at least, what I'd
like to see from you too, is that there is
sort of like an exchange between the people in the
public and the people who are making accusations or you know,
just coming to the press and saying something, and then
the journalists needed to sort of mediate that, I think
in their work. Um, So that's what I hope to
(29:04):
see so that we can we can prevent, Like you said,
prevented from happening. I'd like to put some like frosting
on that goal of yours too and say like, also,
let's make it. You know, we have all gone through
so much, and Hillary has shared a lot today and
I've shared a little bit about so many people I
know that have been assaulted. But you know that we
are so much more than our trauma, and these women
(29:27):
that get the spotlight put on them in these situations
are often now just like which is only remembered for
the trauma, and we are whole people with the whole story.
So let's hope that journalists like you that are so
accountable and do work so hard to tell, to bring
a full picture to light, helps create that that we
(29:47):
are not just victims. Just like I really had a
hard time with that movie Blonde Um, even though it's
based on a novel that's a very sensationalized version of
Maryland's life. Yes, we know she was assaulted and very
abused and had a very hard time the studio system,
but I thought it was so sad that this powerful, amazing,
talented person was just kind of put into this box
(30:08):
of a victim. And I think just the movie I
couldn't stop crying the whole time, and it was so
much of the story, but so much of that that
she had just been made so small and and just
you know, a vessel for trauma when she represents so
much positivity to so many people. You're so right, and
that's have been some of the best advice given to
(30:28):
me is you are not the bad things that happened
to you. I am not the bad things that happened
to me in my twenties that I have yet to
speak about. I am not the trolls, the abuser's, the bullies,
their negativity. That is not who I am. That is
something that they do to me that is not who
I am. And the same thing for everybody out there.
(30:50):
You are a whole, positive person with so much potential
and so worth it. Don't let the negativity start to
consume your entire identity. Hell yes, hell yeah, hell um. Okay.
On that note, what are we covering in the Coven Ladies?
So I'm going real which this week? So I think
(31:10):
I'm gonna leave this one off to bring Maria into it.
You know, like we've talked about it. Every week, we
have something that we're coverting and I'm going to start
with witches and us being more than our than our story.
And this is Which Oracle Cards an anatomy of a
witch cards per mind, body, and spirit, and you can
you pick a card and it kind of tells you,
(31:32):
like what you need in that moment or encourages you
to kind of explore one path or another in your
in your decision making it that day. And it's always
positive and a little mystical, and you know, it's just
it's also a very pretty box. Anatomy of the Which
Oracle Cards available probably on Amazon. I love that. When
I was when I was at the correction facility where
(31:55):
I'm I'm starting to teach you. Then I was connecting
with the people there. Um this one woman she she
ran back to her bunk and she said, they have
um yoga sometimes it's gonna be a little different, but
they have yoga sometimes. And they're like she brings as
these cards that are kind of like that that have
sayings and you know, sort of sort of spiritual meaning
(32:17):
on them, and she had saved three. She gets she
gets so excited she gets to save them and she says,
I read them over and over again to bring positivity
into my mind and to think this is somebody who
is in the same room for most of the day
and this gives her such hope and such you know,
connectedness into the kind of person that she wants to
evolve into being. Oh, it's the little things, like the
(32:40):
little affirmation that can get us through the hardest times.
And I think that all the like we've talked about
trauma victims today, what these tools are, and I think
that's something we should all will be putting on the
platform after today too. You know, many ways that we
can cope and find fun light in the world. Mariah,
what's yours? So this is this looks silly but kind
(33:00):
of kind of whatchy. This is a base, um, and
I believe it or not. And um, I think that
one of the things that brings me a lot of
joy where I find the peace. It sounds a little silly,
but I do like arranging flowers, cutting flowers and arranging them,
and I think, um, I think doing something something simple
like that is really good for you. And I want,
(33:21):
especially just talking about women who've been gone through so
much trauma, like taking some time for yourself, making, like
making something beautiful, like find some flowers, cut them, arrange them,
put them around your house and I don't know, put
them in like silly looking plases like these. Um. That's that,
and that really is it, when you're having a really
bad moment, bringing its beauty into your life for good
(33:44):
people support. It's what it comes your nervous system, which
is really what this comes down to, you know, is
my nervous system out of whack because I have been abused,
you know, and whether that is in person online, you know,
if something coming up from the past, some fear from
the future, but that can still you know, mess with
your nervous system and to settle yourself into the present.
(34:06):
That's that's such a good one. Mine today is a
book that changed my life in my twenties. UM. It's
a book called Waking the Tigerup by Peter Levine, and
it's about somatic experiencing. And I don't know if you
guys have heard it. It's become much more common than
it was, UM back back then. And I read it.
I read it again, I underlined it, and it's all
(34:28):
about UM dealing with trauma and trying to release it
from the body. Understanding that trauma is held in the
body and I can talk and talk and talk about things,
but my mind is going places and my body is
actually going with that trauma there. So how do you
talk about it and sent to yourself and teach your
(34:49):
body and teach your nervous system that you're not in
that trauma anymore? And that was a life changing book
for me and really has helped me through the years
process trauma. So whenever you know some of the stuff
that I talked about today, it every single bit brings
up trauma for me. So after this session, I'm going
(35:09):
to go and I'm gonna go do some you know,
somatic experiencing stuff that I that I learned and UM
and hopefully get my my body back into a present
state where I can be both happy and a good
human of the universe. Oh, You're always a good human
of the universe. Thanks UM, Thank you so much for
taking the time and being with us. And it was
(35:32):
just a very interesting conversation. I learned quite a lot
from you, and I really have never gotten into a
place where I talked so so deeply with about the
Me Too movement, and especially not with a reporter who
has been as close to it as you have. Thank
you so much for having me. This was really interesting
conversation and uh yeah, I'm just really grateful, thank you,
(35:54):
thank you. I feel like we covered so much and
I feel so much more kind of aware of your
side of things and how and how much I respect
journalists that think in the way you do, and that
there's so much we should be hopeful and have more
trust because there are people out you telling stories the
right way. So thank you, and now tell us how
(36:16):
everyone can find you and your work. You can find
me and my work on my website, which is Maria
Prudente dot com, and I have an Instagram page which
is Maria A Prudente. All right, thanks Mario. We look
forward to continuing this conversation with you. Thank you. Yeah,
you know what, Michelle, that was an amazing conversation. You know,
for me, who's usually on the other side of the story,
(36:38):
it's really nice to hear from journalist who is really
doing her homework and really being very thoughtful as she's
investigating a very big story that affects a lot of people,
aside from being extremely smart, and I think she really
opened up our perspective on the amount of work and
credibility it takes to responsibly talk about abuse and how
(37:03):
how to convey that and how to do it in
a way that's safe for the victim, and you know,
very clear, and I think too, you know, she she's
a reminder that there are so many amazing journalists and
people in the press that do everything they can to
make sure they're telling the best story possible. And in
a world where we hear people mistrusting the media a lot,
I think Marie is such a breath of fresh air,
(37:26):
and I think we're very lucky to have her on
for this amazing conversation which I feel that you and
I both opened up and learned so much today. Absolutely,
such a breath of fresh air. All Right, ladies, that's
it for today. Don't forget to rate reviews, subscribe, share
with your friends. We love that our coven is growing.
Find us on social media, and we'll see you next week. Bye. Thanks,
(37:50):
Which is
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