November 21, 2025 • 44 mins
New York’s Governor Kathy Hochul leads like a mom who’s had enough — protective, outspoken, and unwilling to watch her people get pushed aside.
She opens up about the loving anger that drives her, the urgency of defending families, and what it takes to lead with both empathy and backbone. She also has a message for critics of newly-elected NYC Mayor Zohran Mamdani, because she believes New York is at its best when we all work together.
It's a candid, clear-eyed look at how she’s fighting for New Yorkers when it matters most.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome
back to work in progress. Friends. All eyes seem to
be on New York right now, and I happen to
(00:22):
be in New York and wanted to get to the
bottom of that feeling. We know that what is unfolding
here is going to reverberate far beyond state lines. And
at the heart of this moment are our New York
elected officials. And so who better to talk about this
very moment with the New York's very owned Governor Kathy Hokeel.
(00:45):
She's navigating a pivotal juncture where city, state, and federal
fault lines converge. We have a freshly elected mayor in
New York City who's promising bold change. We've got ongoing
federal pressure on state institutions as the White House is
weaponizing New York's power. We've got battles over our very
(01:05):
social fabric right down to our food security safety nets
and the integrity of our democratic processes. And all of
that means that Governor Hokel is really facing intense scrutiny.
Her leadership is being measured not just by what she does,
and all of the incredible things that she has done,
but how she chooses to respond in every moment. It's
(01:27):
an awful lot of pressure, and I want to ask her,
not just as one of our incredible female governors here
in America, but as a human, as a woman, how
does she define her role in safeguarding democracy and delivering
for the more than twenty million people in the state
who count on her. It's a lot of pressure. I
(01:49):
want to know how she does it, and I want
to know if she's okay. So let's dive in and
talk about all things Snap and state policy, smartphone band
for schools, and why someone would want to run for
public office in the first place. Let's dive in with
Governor Holkel. Governor, We're sitting in New York City together.
(02:21):
I'm obviously very geeked. I feel like you can see
me blush him. Thank you for your patience and your
incredible decorum before we jump into all of the things
happening as we begin to close twenty twenty five, many
of them in this city, in your great state. I
actually would love to go backwards with you.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Sure, let's do it, because.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So many people that I sit with have an incredible
job or an incredible track record or promoting some incredible project.
Yours is democracy, I think the most important project of all.
And I think people forget that you have a story
before you were a public figure. And I know you
grew up in Western New York, and I'm curious if
(03:06):
you can paint a picture for me about not Governor
Kathy Hochel, but just Kathy as a kid at nine
or ten years old. What was your life like, what
was your community like, what was your family like? What
was New York like?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, I appreciate that because a lot of people think
that we sort of morphed into our jobs right now
and we don't actually real people. Yeah, they think you
were born in a pantsuit. That's right, that's right. I
came to the pantsuits later in life, but too. Yeah,
Western New York, Buffalo is kind of always was a
gritty steel town. And my dad and grandfather and his brothers,
(03:42):
they all worked at the steel plant making steal. It's
it's difficult work, you know. Dad would come home at
the end of the day just kind of like all
this stowdown them because they were in the ovens, coke ovens.
And my parents, you know, before I was born before
I was born, they lived in a trailer park and
they struck, and then I came along. There was a
(04:03):
little tiny apartment and you know, through time they progressed
to bigger homes. We had bigger family, Irish Catholic family,
six kids. I think my mom wanted even more. So
we didn't have a lot of money. We really did.
We used to buy our clothes that use clothing stores,
or you could lay them away. Like I'd always feel
a little funny when my mom would take us shopping
for like our Easter dress, and all the other kids
(04:26):
are getting in line with their parents at the checkout,
and we went over to the layaway counter because I
didn't have the money right then to put in. You know,
we could take it home, we had to take it
home months later or even you know, we'd go to
the day old bread store and I would fill up
a freezer with day old bread and you know, stale
twinkies and things like that. So we thought that was
(04:46):
the norm. I just wanted to say, as I look back,
that was a struggle. But we were never hungry, you know.
We always had clothes to wear, and my parents instilled
in us a really strong sense of responsibility to others,
even though they didn't have much. They were social justice Catholics.
It took us marching and the anti war demonstrations. We
(05:08):
were at the marches for civil rights when we were early,
you know, young children, and you know, my parents were
trying to integrate, you know, a working class white neighborhood,
and you know, took a lot of criticism from people
for those efforts. And I saw my parents sort of
on the front of civil rights and human rights movements,
and that really left an impression on me. And I decided,
(05:33):
after visiting Washington as a child, I wanted to someday
work in the Capitol. But the ambition of women back
then was so limited. Most it was back in that era,
like you're going to be a teacher, secretary, or nurse,
and how's your typing?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know those questions.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it sucks. That's why I couldn't make it, as
they couldn't make it as a typeist. She's still seen
me trying to type. You just had to become the governor.
I love that, So there was another career path. I
just wasn't good for that. But I wanted to be
a staffer, to top staffer, to a senator someday. That
was my highest ambition when I was thirteen or fourteen,
(06:10):
because I had seen the capital. I knew about politics
from just from eighth grade social studies. I really love
social studies and never dreamed of public office. And that's
what I found so limiting when I look back that far.
You know a little you know, nine or ten year
old you asked about it. I was just I was
babysitting everybody. I was ten years old, watching all my
younger siblings. I babysat you, the oldest, oldest girl, oldest daughter, Yeah,
(06:33):
oldest daughter, And so I was always babysitting. Even in
high school. I'd have a job after school to bring
home money for the family. I worked at a pizzeria,
so I never could do the cool kids stuff. I
wasn't I didn't go out for cheerleading, I wasn't in sports,
I wasn't in clubs because I would leave almost every
day after school to go to this pizzerier. I worked
(06:54):
until eleven or twelve at night, and so I could
help bring home some cash, which is good, but kind
of stunted my social life. So it's a little bit
of a nerdy kid I'd get home very late at
night and have to do my homework and shared a
bedroom in the attict with two brothers, and it wasn't
In the winter time it was cold and the summertime
it was hot. We didn't but that's you know, I'm
close to those brothers. You know, I grew up in
(07:15):
that kind of environment. That's we had a lot of love.
I'll just say that I grew up in a lot
of love in the sense that no matter what we have,
somebody else has less than us. Yeah, and I still
have that serial of my brain right now. As governor,
I'm always aware I need to do more to help
people that are struggling.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Well, it strikes me, you know, the story that you tell,
the steel mill that was so central to your family,
the trailer park that they were in, what it was
like to move up but still be held back by
circumstance in certain ways. That's that's in every man's story,
(07:55):
you know. I think about my grandfather who was in
the Navy and afterwards made mannequin by hand in New
Jersey the wolf at the Wolf Form Company, and he
bent these you know beautiful Now they're in like all
the Sheik stores you know the vintage linen mannequins with
the metal toppers that say wolf on the neck, and
he made those. He'd bend the steel by hand and
(08:15):
stretched the linen by hand and be on this factory line.
And I know my mom and her brother's stories. You know,
I know about the housing project in the Bronx and
about the eventual home in New Jersey that you know,
was the first house my grandfather ever bought in, the
house that he died in. And everywhere I've ever had
(08:37):
the privilege to live, you know, whether it's here in
New York or home in California or small town North Carolina,
or New Mexico or Texas or Canada. People's stories of
where they come from, how they've struggled, how they've succeeded,
what they've built, how they've dreamed, what they still dream of.
Those are so central for me to advocacy, to thinking
(09:01):
about how we build a better world for all of us.
And so much of what I believe in and why
I'm so excited you're here is issues that you lead on.
You know, whether it's better access to care for people,
you know, more affordability, fighting for pay leave, you know,
(09:24):
for women and their families, and these things that seem
so obvious but seem like such hard fights. I feel
like it would be impossible for you to work as
hard for all these people for as long as you
have if you weren't always walking into rooms with those
stories fresh in your mind.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Right, You've hit on something pretty profound that I can't
leave those stories behind me when I'm out there fighting,
you know, in Harlem or the Bronx, as I was
last week to have snap benefits restored. You know the
embarrassment that already exists when you you're a kid and
you know your parents have to go use food stamps.
(10:03):
My husband's family use food stamps when he was growing up.
He had tough circumstances as well. His father got very
sick when he was young and didn't bring home the
paycheck as a as a person who used to make
cabinets at a factory, And so families suffer. But I
also know that they need a champion. They need someone
(10:24):
who has had that lived experience, but also with the
heartfull of gratitude to know that I broke out of
those circumstances. My dad got an education, he could leave
the trailer park and get a better job, and eventually
the houses got bigger and nicer. But not everybody has
that same shot. And so when you take away food
from families, and I remember back my mom would try
(10:46):
to stretch a can of spam. That's disgusting. You open
up a canna spans all this jelly crap on it,
and I think they used to use it in the
military and they'd slice it up, but you'd fry it
and put it between stale bread and call it dinner.
Sometimes we had a lot of pancakes for dinner because
you could feed a family of eight with a lot
of pancakes. I'm thinking about that when I'm thinking about
how are families today when that pancake mix costs so
(11:08):
much more than didn't even my mom had to buy it. Yes,
they're struggling. So when people think about affordability as just
a sort of a branding word, these are real people's lives.
It's all about struggle, and they need to know that
there's someone who will fight like hell for them. We
will stand up to Donald Trump and the Republicans who
unleashed this pain all across America just to score political points.
(11:32):
And I believe they lost that war because it looks
so cruel and so depraved to say, the first time
in American history when there's been a government shutdown that
they didn't keep the nutrition programs flowing. They're sitting on
six billion dollars in reserves to do that, and they
went to court to stop that from happening. That is
a new low in our history. And we turn our
(11:54):
backs on hungry families and senior citizens. And so that
just motivates me to get out there and call it
out for what it is. Yeah, stand up for these
people and know that their stories resign within me as well.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I don't want to glaze over you know how
your career began serving in local positions and then going
to Congress and them being the lieutenant.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Governor and then the governor. But this is exactly the.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Thing that has been the top of mind for me,
is knowing how you carry your own story, your own family,
and all of your constituents stories and families into rooms
when you advocate the snap Thing's making me crazy because
not only not only is there this really insidious idea
(12:41):
and we all know, you know, my lovely listeners at
home care about being engaged and being educated on where
we come from. We know what the myth of the
welfare queen is. We know that it came from attacking
black women, particularly in this country. That the largest beneficiaries
of quote welfare SNAP benefits in America are white families.
(13:02):
We also know that nobody who's getting these benefits is
like live and large on them. You're not abusing a
system by having the difference between a starvation meal and
a meal that actually will let you and your kids
sleep through the night. The people abusing the system are
the corporations that pay their workers so little that gainfully
(13:24):
employed Americans have to get food stamps to make up
the difference. You know this, and I'm going to say
this for the folks at home who might have missed
the statistic. But when you look at the increase in
CEO wages c suite wages, and then you look at
minimum wage stagnating, if minimum wage had kept up with
CEO pay and also inflation, it wouldn't be seven to
(13:47):
twenty five an hour, it would be twenty six dollars
an hour. And then none of these people, all the
Walmart and Amazon employees that are on SNAP wouldn't need it.
People need it because they're being paid unlivable wages by
incredibly greedy and increasingly greedy corporations that are bragging about
their earnings on their shareholder calls and then turning around
(14:09):
and saying they can't afford to pay the people who've
made them all billionaires in the first place. Makes me
just a tad infuriated and messed off.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And I'm pissed off as well. But let me just
get you the more pissed off. It's not on just
the nutrition programs where they have to use stamp benefits.
So many of those workers at the big box stores
and the Amazons and the walmarts, they're only having them
work thirty or thirty five hours a week instead of forty,
so they don't have to pay them full time health case,
(14:36):
your healthcare. So guess who's paying for that? Many of
them are on Medicaid paid for by state tax payers, Yes,
when it's supposally paid by the corporation that's benefiting from
their sweat and their labor. Yes, And that to me
is the next fight.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And so oh, I'm just so angry, but like in
a good way.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Sometimes I think people look at women who are politically engaged,
and I'm like, oh, you're so angry. I'm like, no,
I'm sacredly angry. I'm angry like a mom is angry
when her kid gets hurts.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
What are you talking about? It's and so.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
When I think about this stuff, and you know the
ins and outs, and I think the more we can
give those details to our audiences, to our constituencies, the
more informed they can be when they have those dinner
table conversations with their families or they walk into a
voting booth. How do you when to your earlier point,
(15:29):
you see the federal government, for the first time in
American history, go to court to fight for the right
to starve its own citizens. I mean, the GOP is
literally on the floor going, let us take away your
health care or we'll starve you. This is barbaric. How
do you, as a state leader fight back? Because yes,
(15:52):
you've got the power of New York, but you're.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Also not the president.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
So like, how do you get on the chess board
with moves like this with a Donald Trump and a
speaker Johnson? How do you defend your state?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
A lot of it goes right to the courts. We
won on snap benefits in two courts, right, and we
are feeling good. I already because this had gone on
for so long and the snap benefits were literally running
out and had been running out. I had to put
one hundred million dollars into food banks around the state
to fortify them. And I had to enlist my Volunteer Corps,
(16:27):
my States Civic Engagement Teams, hundreds of young people to
come down and work at the food base. I had
to figure out a plan quickly to do this. But
at the same time, we're in court, and we won
it in court, which is so maddening that to take
it all the way to the Supreme Court, and how
the Supreme Court did not side with us, I will
never know and let historians figure that one out. But
(16:47):
this was a moment in our history when we turned
our backs as a nation on struggling people. So I
will use all the tools at my dispose of what
part of it is also just doing the press conferences
and calling so it's in the public's mind who did
this to them, and so they take that with them
when they go vote the next time and who they
decide who's on their side. A lot of people fell
(17:10):
for Donald Trump talking about affordability in the election just
one year ago, and then this week he says, I
don't know why everybody talks about affordability. There's so many
other things. Do they not view that as a blatant
betrayal of the trust that the voters put in him.
They just don't give a damn And that's what's so troubling.
So I'm out there using this. I was actually saw
(17:33):
a social media post that our mayor electro Mondani was
sitting with a veteran on Veterans Day and the veteran
was saying, I'm also happy Kathy Hokeel helped keep the
snap benefits and put money out there for us, because
so that means it's sinking into the psychology of who
was fighting for them against those who were trying to
hurt them. That's what has to happen for the electorate
(17:55):
to start shifting their attitude about who's the best fighter
for them. It's always been the Democrats, There's always will
be the Democrats, and we can't lose our way and
let Republicans take what is our narrative that we are
the ones who actually care about people and to lift
them up and help struggling families and seniors and veterans.
(18:16):
So we just and your messaging here today and your
storytelling and getting this is all part of the ecosystem
that needs to exist from people who are different than
the Republicans that are running everything in Washington. There's actually
people who have a heart.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
really enjoy and I think you will too. I'm so
curious what your thoughts are because you've you know, you
hate to use the phrase game. It's not a game.
This is really life or death. But like as the
(18:54):
adage goes, you've been in the game for a minute.
You know what they say versus what they do. You know,
we knew Donald Trump was saying he was going to
lower the price of groceries, but we all read Project
twenty twenty five and knew that wasn't going to happen.
We know they're trying to create a true mass poverty
class and an oligarchy for them and their friends. But
(19:17):
for some reason, the facts didn't get through, even the
fact that you know jd Vance is allegedly invested in
that company that's buying up bankrupt farms for pennies on
the dollar and selling them to international firms, like and
now our farmers are going bankrupt and we're giving forty
billion dollars to Argentina when it would only cost thirty
six billion to extend the medicaid subsidies.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Like I feel like I'm in the upside down?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And so why do you think the truth of our
message doesn't connect in the way their lies do, or
did at least during the election, Like in hindsight, what
do you think we need to do differently? And how
can I and everyone listening to how can we help?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I a lot of fronts on this, and I give
it a great deal of thought about First of all,
people talk about messaging, they're better at messaging, Well, what
does that mean? What does that mean? Because I've been
saying that since I was young staffer on Capitol Hill,
first senator, way back, Like why is there messaging? Does it?
Why is there fit out a bumper sticker? And we
feel like we have to explain a twenty point plan
(20:23):
and walk people through as if we professors as opposed
to real people, ourselves, And in one sense it's viewed
as condescending to people that you think you're no more
than me, and you're not down here in the trenches
where I am, And that's part of our problem in
our communication skills. Like I love walking to a diner
(20:44):
any day of the week. I do it in New
York City constantly. I just I like to just walk
people to the tables, like, hey, what's going on. Oh
you're a cute little kid or a senior citizen. You're
talking about your family, and that seems more to me
it's real, But to others they want that relatability, and
their elected officials is a who is someone who's speaking
behind a podium and telling them how it has to be.
(21:04):
So we just have to get out there with people
and stop being on this you know this in this
ivory tower of being know it alls. That's that's a
real problem we have. The other part is they are
so much better in the social media influencer space. They
are just they have been. We've got a lot of
catch up to do. I've seen some studies on this
(21:24):
where people, you know, Republicans have far more programs and
sort of the echo chamber where they keep saying the
same thing over and over, it gets out of there
and it blasts out to the rest of the world.
Ours may stay in this chamber where we're sitting here
having these smart conversations and we have some really good answers,
But how does it then blast out to regular people?
(21:46):
And that's when someone figures that out. That will be
enormously helpful in the twenty twenty six elections for our congressionals,
you know, ivor race, our Senate races. There's a lot
on the line in twenty six. But also, you know,
we have new leaders like Zorn Mandani who figured out
how to connect with people in a very human, funny way.
(22:06):
We got to keep it. You can never get up
your sense of humor in this business. You just can't,
because then you're less. You're not human if you can't
talk about this and just you know, be a little
more self deprecating about life. You know, we're just regular
people who happen to have a different job title than most.
I'll never change that perspective. And I think with the
new energy that came here in New York City, what
(22:28):
I said is I don't need that for the twenty
twenty six elections for Congress in New York City. Probably
going to be a Democrat, I'm pretty sure. Can you
go out to Long Island. Can you go up to
the Hudson Valley. Can you help me over in Syracuse?
How about the North Country where at least a phonic
is giving up her seat that she actually gave up
a long time ago, just been sitting in it. And
(22:51):
can we harness that energy all around the state and
also not have our people just go around to other
states that seem more fun to go to. I know
this always happens around election time. Stay in your own state.
I lead the Democratic Party. I wanted to be a
deep bench. We trained the young people who are going
to be running the next time, but also giving them
political experience, you know, help on campaigns, working in an office.
(23:12):
Do what I did when I was growing up, where
I was cutting my teeth in politics, the youngest and
the only girl in a room in high school. But
I was surrounded by smart older guys, like college age
guys and college graduates. We're all running the campaigns for
governor and for president and for senator. I was sitting
there absorbing it all, and I loved it, and I've
(23:35):
never lost that love. Because that's how you'll elect people
who will be out there fighting for others. Yeah, and
so I think we can harness the energy that we
just saw this past election here in New York City
and spread it all over well, I sure hope.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
So it's a little frustrating. I feel like our balloon
was really getting inflated. You know, we had so many
great wins that we needed to push back against this
authoritarian regime, and then the Democrats caved, and it really
feels like it takes the wind out of our sales.
Why why do you think after forty five days of
(24:15):
holding the line, eight people defected?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Like, what's the what's the deal?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And I don't want to be such a cynic to
believe you know some of the things I've seen online
which are like, well a bunch of them. Their biggest
donors are the airlines, and they threatened the airports and
now they're caving. It's got to be there's got to
be a bigger picture, right, Can can you help us understand?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I can't speak to why eight people, nine people, whatever
the number was, defected, But you look at their states,
their battleground states. They have to worry about both sides
because and I will tell you I'm one Democrat, it's
it's fun and easy to be a purist like it's
got this is, this is I believe in all these things,
and if you don't believe in every one of them,
(24:56):
that I'm not with you. And we do that to ourselves.
We have too often we are the circular firing squad
among other Democrats. And guess what, that's how Republicans win
because they don't do that. They're more disciplined than that.
So I would say, if we could find the common
ground that hey, we're Democrats and they're Democrats, they're Republicans,
(25:17):
let's stick together. So I don't want to go second.
Guests with the politics are in their home state. But
some of them, some Democrats, in some parts of our country,
they may have to do things that we might as
pure ASTs, say is wrong. But if it's not them,
it's going to be a Republican city that seat. And
that's when you're in the city, you don't realize that
Republicans are New York State is now a purple state.
(25:39):
That is hard for me to accept as someone who's
been involved in politics my whole life. But the reality
is we've lost a lot of ground and Republicans are
enrolling people. Why aren't we doing more to roll Democrats
to believe in us, and we have to give them
the story, the narrative to tell. So on that issue,
I don't have an answer on why they did what
(26:01):
they did, But all I know is that Republicans, when
they put this up for a vote, if they really
are on extending the healthcare premiums, because right now, someone
paying two thousand dollars a month for health insurance has
just been told it's now four thousand, not a year
a month, and how is that sustainable? So Republicans are
letting that happen. And I'm telling you as much as
(26:23):
I want that to not happen to the extent it's
going to and that gets weaponized against every one of them.
So there is also a way to turn this bad
dynamic into something that can least change the narrative and
the election next year and in twenty twenty seven, which
seems like an eternity away. We have Democrats at least
(26:43):
in the House representatives, we can have a firewall to
stop what they're doing to the American people.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And now, for our sponsors, it's hard to stomach that
we're in a position where we've got leadership that is
so focused on making money for itself, and I mean,
in the case of the White House, billions of dollars,
the Trump family's making billions at the expense of everyone else,
(27:14):
you know, And I think for me, you know, my
dad's from Canada. He moved here in the seventies to
go to college and became a citizen when I was thirteen.
So when people say do it the right way, I'm like,
you don't know what that means, because my dad was
like a you know, doing great middle class white guy
(27:34):
from Canada, and it was still hard. And I think
a lot about my exposure to another place and to
family and another place, and the fact that you know,
here in America we spend more per capita on healthcare
than any other pure nation, and we don't have We're
the only ones with a for profit healthcare system instead
(27:57):
of healthcare being seen as a public good, healthcare as
a human right.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And it makes me feel.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Crazy because not only are we talking about, to your point,
this Republican party that chooses the abject suffering of people
that aren't in the billionaire class, but also profits from it.
And it's like, we haven't we haven't voted all these
people out yet, but here we are and we're still
(28:25):
We're still in the fight. And I know, for me
and clearly for you and for so many people we
spend our time with, we're not going to give it up.
We're not giving up the fight. We're not going anywhere.
Why do you think then, that there has been so
much of a of a fear or a freak out
around our mayor elect here in New York? You know, Mom,
(28:48):
Donnie's talking about fixing some of the wealth inequity, shoring
up the kinds of programs that would allow for access
that you know, not to like live in a rom com,
But I remember how New York felt to me as
a kid in the nineties. I'm like, I miss that
(29:10):
in New York. What if it could come back a
little bit, Like what if more people got to live
here and experience this place, in this great diversity that
we used to have more of. Do you think maybe
some of the rhetoric about him coming from the right
is really just because they're scared that we're poking holes
in the fact that trickle down economics doesn't work and
(29:31):
a billionaire oligarchy isn't what we want in America.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I think it's simple than that. I think they're always
looking for an enemy. They're always looking for someone to demonize,
someone to get people to turn on, you know, the other,
and that has been the secret of their success. From
the president, I'm down, damn. And so he hits the
profile like, oh my gosh, she's born from some another
country and he practiced religion that I don't practice. They're
(29:57):
thinking he has different beliefs. But what he touched was
a nerve that was so real and so visceral to people.
It's like, you said, I'm just not getting ahead, and
he articulated that sense. We've been talking about affordability for
a number of years, but really focused on it last
January and whether it's every child in the state of
(30:20):
New York now gets free breakfast and lunch in schools,
so it's an affordability issue. It puts about thirty two
hundred dollars back in a family's pocket if you have
two kids. I mean that's huge. Plus time the people
quote me on the streets of New York say thank
God at the pack of the lunches and make the breakfast. Yeah,
so I'm a mom, you know. It's that's that's like
(30:41):
something that was criticized wildly by the Republicans. What do
you mean you're giving free stuff to kids because I
don't think little kids should enter tummy's growling in a
classroom because they were too embarrassed to show that they
were getting subsidized lunches, had to go in a different
line or be notifed. People know it's them, and so
they skip their lunches. This is real. They skip their
(31:02):
lunches because they don't want to be stigmatized. I can't
live in a state that has that. How we're feeding
our kids, or the money that we did with the
middle class tax cut, the biggest tax rate cut, so
the middle class knows where you haven't forgotten them too.
And for moms with kids, their parents with kids under
the age of one, one thousand dollars check to help
you cover the diapers, the formula, the little outfits they
(31:25):
keep out growing all the time. So I've added up
it's about five thousand dollars and plus the inflation rebate,
which a lot of people just got four hundred dollars
in their pockets. I had a guy coaching on the shiels.
My god, someone stole my laptop. I could buy a
new one with the money just sent me. That made
a difference to Its a big deal. So that's how
I'm making a difference by putting money backs pockets and
(31:48):
focusing on prioritizing families and their needs, and even something
that didn't cost money, but banning cell phones in schools,
Like I'm telling you, why did we even go a
decade saying it's okay for children to be sitting there
watching TikTok dance videos instead of listening to the math
teacher crazy and being surprised that the outcomes aren't Why
(32:08):
aren't they showed better results on tests because we let
them have this toy, this distraction that is also can
be pretty detrimental to their mental health, and that's why
we're seeing a real increase in young, truly teenage girls
having mental health challenges. So we're ending that in New
York and every other state ow to do the same thing. Yeah,
never again.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
That's a huge win.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And they're making friends again. I know they're talking to
each other, they're bringing cards and games to lunch together.
So I love the stories. And we just did this
in September, and I'm going to say this is one
of the most non partisan you know, Initius we ever launched,
didn't cost us any money, and it's had a profound
(32:52):
effect on families and individuals, and those are the wins
we should be talking about, because anybody could have done
it before me. Nobody wanted to stand to all the
entrench interests that told me no, which is so crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
And you know, when you think about it, there's you know,
this was the year of Jonathan Haates, the Anxious Generation,
phenomenal book to explain some of this. I think about
how anxious my own phone makes me. And I'm an adult,
you know, I grew up without a cell phone like this,
and then in high school had like, you know, a
little Nokia you know, T nine, You're like one, two three,
(33:26):
T got it. And to think about what these kids
are facing, you know, and then to go a layer deeper.
Another book I read, which if you haven't read, I
will send to you because it's fabulous tiny. It's called
How to Break Up with Your Phone, and it actually
talks about all the research that went into designing smartphones.
And it's the same research they use to design slot machines.
They're made to be.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Addictive, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And it's wild, right, and so when I think about
wins like this, whether it's fiscal policy or social policy,
you're talking about prioritizing people wellness, about ensuring community. You know,
when I hear you talk about even those four hundred
dollars checks that just went out, the average American is
one four hundred dollars unexpected medical bill away from bankruptcy.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
It doesn't have to be like that.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
And you know, we've got leadership in Washington that wants
billionaires to be able to write off private jets, but
doesn't think teachers should be able to write off construction paper.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
It's like, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So when you think about these things, you know, even
the way you talk about Mom Donnie's election and how
the point is to bring more voices from our party
to the table to find solutions.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
For everybody, how do you take what a lot of.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Folks in the city view as a win and what
you know some of your more rural voters might be
a little afraid of because of what you said, the
messaging about the other Oh, you're supposed to be scared.
You really, you kind of get to be like the
mom of our state. You know, you get to talk
to the kids and be like, settle down.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Everybody talk to folks about I'll say that all the time,
and there was you know, I feel like I've been
the therapist in chief for a lot of people. Oh
my god, you know I'm leaving now. I'm selling my
penthouse because you know, I'm not going to make the
invest I said, everybody has calm down, you know, calm down.
We're going to be fine. You know, I will work
(35:27):
with him to help him be successful, because no one
who's smart is ever going to root against New York City.
Want our mayors to be successful, and so you know
we speak regularly, you know, very friendly relationship. And I
don't need to have this epic power struggle that my
predecessors and others would have between the governor and the
mayor of New York because it's like it's a clash
(35:48):
of Titan egos, like who gets more credit? Who gets
did the press conference first on the same topic, where
I'm like, let's do a press conference together. We're both
fighting crime in the subways, we're both dealing with the
homelessness crisis, we're bothocusing on building more housing. Why aren't
we doing this together? And I'll give money to help
support the mayor's initiatives. I did that under Eric Adams,
you know, the City of Yes to build more housing.
(36:10):
It was dead until I camp with money to get
over the finish line, and so we can do those things.
So everybody should just doalt all back you, Yeah, I
think to the rural anywhere else. It's not just rural areas.
There's a lot of people in New York City who
are very anxious. Let him have a chance to prove
he can govern and surround himself with talented people who
(36:32):
know what to do. Also know it's a four year
term and possibly longer. Everything can't possibly happen in the
first six months. Even the first year you start planning
the seeds to my cell phone policy. I had to
spend a year going around the state persuading people that
this was a good idea, and then we got it done.
(36:52):
My housing policy I started the first year, didn't win
second year, came back at it. So I just want
everybody to think about the fact that there's so many
other issues that a mayor has to worry about too. Yep,
he's got to focus on public safety number one. If
he keeps Jessica Tish, I think that'll calm a lot
of people down. And I say, he said he would.
Let's keep working on homelessness in the subways, in the streets.
(37:14):
Let's make sure the garbage gets picked up so they
can't blame you for that. You know, Let's get rid
of the rats. Keep killing rats, get rid of the scaffolding.
I walk around the city. I don't see the sun
for ten blocks I walk every day. So there's just
the nuts and bolts of governing the city. If he
can demonstrate then he's doing all that and people aren't like, oh,
my life really hasn't changed. I guess I'm gonna be okay.
(37:37):
Time will bear that out. And also his major initiatives.
We're having conversations about them. What's in the realm of possibility?
How we get to yes, what time frame and so so, No,
we're going to be like I feel like we're gonna
be fine Everyboddy.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I'm excited. And I think particularly the grit of New
York and the way this place stands as this beacon
for the country, but also at current stands up against
the administration. You know, whether it's Letitia James refusing to
back down, and I mean that's ridiculously bogus charged despite
what was in her mortgage contract, Like, what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Donald Trump?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You know, to even you, you know you're about to
go into a battle with Alis Stefanik, who I just
think has betrayed people left, right and center. And I'm
excited to see you take her on. You count me
in for any campaign events you've got as you think
about these things ahead, you know, the progress you want
to make here in the city and around the state,
and the fights that are coming, and also the wins
(38:37):
you know, snap and cell phones and so much more
for people who live here in New York. When you
look toward twenty twenty six, what feels like you're working progress.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
My work in progress is truly childcare. Well, that is
something that I had to leave a job I love
John capitol Hill because it was no childcare I could afford. Yeah,
when I was a young mom, and my kids have
grown up, they still struggle with that as well. Yeah,
and so that to me. I just sat down with
some business leaders today. I said, this used to be
(39:10):
a problem for a family as vis like, well, you
chose to have kids, you figured out, I said, this
is a problem for society but also for our economy.
If we don't have everyone functioning at high levels and
be able to go to the jobs that are helping
make you profitable, you should be concerned about that. Yes,
or missus business person like this should be a solution
(39:35):
we all want to have because every likely woman, but
every parent who wants to work can work, then we
are more productive as a society. So let's just continue
what I've been talking about for years. And I've already
invested seven billion dollars in childcare since I double and
part of it was opening up new spaces, training people,
(39:56):
getting the infrastructure in place, because you can't promise everybody
childcare and then not have a place for them to
go right or an instructor there to take care of them.
So that's the ground building I've been doing for years.
I've said I want to get universal childcare, and this
is a big priority for the mayor elect. But we
(40:16):
also just step back and say, okay, what else is missing?
If we promise something and someone calls it, I'm ready
for my universal child because say, oh, we still have
to open up, you know, twenty more buildings and have
hundreds of more slots to be able to do that.
I don't want to pull a rug out from people.
We have to have a realistic path to get there.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, and that kind of infrastructure takes time, but it's
thrilling to watch you continue to invest in it, especially
in a time in our society where everyone wants the
quickest turnover, the quickest win, the quickest own on social media.
You are doing the building so that we can look
back in five, ten, fifteen years and say.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Look what we did. I want to get it done tomorrow.
You know, I'm impatient, Oh, of course, but we lost
a lot of ground with the pandemic. A lot of
childcare centers literally closed up, which is why so many
parents were staying home. We have people that are finding
that they can make more money because minimum wage in
our fast food store is just twenty dollars an hour. Yes,
(41:18):
and they make less if they're working at a daycare
center or child care facility. And so there has to
be a resetting of those values, so to speak. So
I want know we'll get there. Yeah, but the system
isn't ready right now. But we need to have the
grace to be able to work together figure out what's
(41:39):
missing to get us to that place. You're building the
plane as you find. It's impressive, but it's good. It's
a priority.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
It makes me think of something something that Kamala Harris said,
and I think back to the wonderful event you all
did with all the female governors at the DNC.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
It was so special.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I was so thrilled to be in the room. And
her pushback on this idea that you know, universal childcare
is somehow a socialist policy, she was like, no, no,
it's capitalism with a good ROI because parents who have
childcare go and make more money, and then their companies
make more money. It actually is a relatively low cost
investment when you look at it against what it creates
(42:18):
in profit. And so I love that that is I
love that. That's that's your bone. You're never going to
wut down because we need it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
No, I tell CEOs, one of your big problems is retention.
You train someone, they're great, they're awesome, they're producing, and
then they want to have a family if you don't
support them during that time. Again, the time from when
before they hit you know, if it's three year old
pre K or four yel pre Yeah, it's just a
few years. If you help them through that you have
(42:50):
a childcare center on site. Yes, and that's what we're
doing with this big Micron company. That's where we brought
It's the largest private sector investment in American history building
semiconductors in Syracuse.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Casual.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
They had to build a childcare center as a condition
of getting our money. Yes, So the bigger guys have
the space build a childcare center. Smaller ones can have Consourtius.
I think while we're working on our piece of it,
let the private sector realize you should do this too.
It's in your interest and that employee will stay with
you for life if you get them through those early years.
(43:24):
That's it. So we can help solve some problems.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
And it's how you build community and a great economy.
Thank you so much, Governor. I know you've got to run.
I see everybody starting to look at their watches. I
just so appreciate you being here today. And yeah, you
tell us where to be for this next election, We're ready.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
I appreciate it very much. Thank you for having your
voice help lead the fight.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Thank you
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome
back to work in progress. Friends. All eyes seem to
be on New York right now, and I happen to
(00:22):
be in New York and wanted to get to the
bottom of that feeling. We know that what is unfolding
here is going to reverberate far beyond state lines. And
at the heart of this moment are our New York
elected officials. And so who better to talk about this
very moment with the New York's very owned Governor Kathy Hokeel.
(00:45):
She's navigating a pivotal juncture where city, state, and federal
fault lines converge. We have a freshly elected mayor in
New York City who's promising bold change. We've got ongoing
federal pressure on state institutions as the White House is
weaponizing New York's power. We've got battles over our very
(01:05):
social fabric right down to our food security safety nets
and the integrity of our democratic processes. And all of
that means that Governor Hokel is really facing intense scrutiny.
Her leadership is being measured not just by what she does,
and all of the incredible things that she has done,
but how she chooses to respond in every moment. It's
(01:27):
an awful lot of pressure, and I want to ask her,
not just as one of our incredible female governors here
in America, but as a human, as a woman, how
does she define her role in safeguarding democracy and delivering
for the more than twenty million people in the state
who count on her. It's a lot of pressure. I
(01:49):
want to know how she does it, and I want
to know if she's okay. So let's dive in and
talk about all things Snap and state policy, smartphone band
for schools, and why someone would want to run for
public office in the first place. Let's dive in with
Governor Holkel. Governor, We're sitting in New York City together.
(02:21):
I'm obviously very geeked. I feel like you can see
me blush him. Thank you for your patience and your
incredible decorum before we jump into all of the things
happening as we begin to close twenty twenty five, many
of them in this city, in your great state. I
actually would love to go backwards with you.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Sure, let's do it, because.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
So many people that I sit with have an incredible
job or an incredible track record or promoting some incredible project.
Yours is democracy, I think the most important project of all.
And I think people forget that you have a story
before you were a public figure. And I know you
grew up in Western New York, and I'm curious if
(03:06):
you can paint a picture for me about not Governor
Kathy Hochel, but just Kathy as a kid at nine
or ten years old. What was your life like, what
was your community like, what was your family like? What
was New York like?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Well, I appreciate that because a lot of people think
that we sort of morphed into our jobs right now
and we don't actually real people. Yeah, they think you
were born in a pantsuit. That's right, that's right. I
came to the pantsuits later in life, but too. Yeah,
Western New York, Buffalo is kind of always was a
gritty steel town. And my dad and grandfather and his brothers,
(03:42):
they all worked at the steel plant making steal. It's
it's difficult work, you know. Dad would come home at
the end of the day just kind of like all
this stowdown them because they were in the ovens, coke ovens.
And my parents, you know, before I was born before
I was born, they lived in a trailer park and
they struck, and then I came along. There was a
(04:03):
little tiny apartment and you know, through time they progressed
to bigger homes. We had bigger family, Irish Catholic family,
six kids. I think my mom wanted even more. So
we didn't have a lot of money. We really did.
We used to buy our clothes that use clothing stores,
or you could lay them away. Like I'd always feel
a little funny when my mom would take us shopping
for like our Easter dress, and all the other kids
(04:26):
are getting in line with their parents at the checkout,
and we went over to the layaway counter because I
didn't have the money right then to put in. You know,
we could take it home, we had to take it
home months later or even you know, we'd go to
the day old bread store and I would fill up
a freezer with day old bread and you know, stale
twinkies and things like that. So we thought that was
(04:46):
the norm. I just wanted to say, as I look back,
that was a struggle. But we were never hungry, you know.
We always had clothes to wear, and my parents instilled
in us a really strong sense of responsibility to others,
even though they didn't have much. They were social justice Catholics.
It took us marching and the anti war demonstrations. We
(05:08):
were at the marches for civil rights when we were early,
you know, young children, and you know, my parents were
trying to integrate, you know, a working class white neighborhood,
and you know, took a lot of criticism from people
for those efforts. And I saw my parents sort of
on the front of civil rights and human rights movements,
and that really left an impression on me. And I decided,
(05:33):
after visiting Washington as a child, I wanted to someday
work in the Capitol. But the ambition of women back
then was so limited. Most it was back in that era,
like you're going to be a teacher, secretary, or nurse,
and how's your typing?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
You know those questions.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it sucks. That's why I couldn't make it, as
they couldn't make it as a typeist. She's still seen
me trying to type. You just had to become the governor.
I love that, So there was another career path. I
just wasn't good for that. But I wanted to be
a staffer, to top staffer, to a senator someday. That
was my highest ambition when I was thirteen or fourteen,
(06:10):
because I had seen the capital. I knew about politics
from just from eighth grade social studies. I really love
social studies and never dreamed of public office. And that's
what I found so limiting when I look back that far.
You know a little you know, nine or ten year
old you asked about it. I was just I was
babysitting everybody. I was ten years old, watching all my
younger siblings. I babysat you, the oldest, oldest girl, oldest daughter, Yeah,
(06:33):
oldest daughter, And so I was always babysitting. Even in
high school. I'd have a job after school to bring
home money for the family. I worked at a pizzeria,
so I never could do the cool kids stuff. I
wasn't I didn't go out for cheerleading, I wasn't in sports,
I wasn't in clubs because I would leave almost every
day after school to go to this pizzerier. I worked
(06:54):
until eleven or twelve at night, and so I could
help bring home some cash, which is good, but kind
of stunted my social life. So it's a little bit
of a nerdy kid I'd get home very late at
night and have to do my homework and shared a
bedroom in the attict with two brothers, and it wasn't
In the winter time it was cold and the summertime
it was hot. We didn't but that's you know, I'm
close to those brothers. You know, I grew up in
(07:15):
that kind of environment. That's we had a lot of love.
I'll just say that I grew up in a lot
of love in the sense that no matter what we have,
somebody else has less than us. Yeah, and I still
have that serial of my brain right now. As governor,
I'm always aware I need to do more to help
people that are struggling.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Well, it strikes me, you know, the story that you tell,
the steel mill that was so central to your family,
the trailer park that they were in, what it was
like to move up but still be held back by
circumstance in certain ways. That's that's in every man's story,
(07:55):
you know. I think about my grandfather who was in
the Navy and afterwards made mannequin by hand in New
Jersey the wolf at the Wolf Form Company, and he
bent these you know beautiful Now they're in like all
the Sheik stores you know the vintage linen mannequins with
the metal toppers that say wolf on the neck, and
he made those. He'd bend the steel by hand and
(08:15):
stretched the linen by hand and be on this factory line.
And I know my mom and her brother's stories. You know,
I know about the housing project in the Bronx and
about the eventual home in New Jersey that you know,
was the first house my grandfather ever bought in, the
house that he died in. And everywhere I've ever had
(08:37):
the privilege to live, you know, whether it's here in
New York or home in California or small town North Carolina,
or New Mexico or Texas or Canada. People's stories of
where they come from, how they've struggled, how they've succeeded,
what they've built, how they've dreamed, what they still dream of.
Those are so central for me to advocacy, to thinking
(09:01):
about how we build a better world for all of us.
And so much of what I believe in and why
I'm so excited you're here is issues that you lead on.
You know, whether it's better access to care for people,
you know, more affordability, fighting for pay leave, you know,
(09:24):
for women and their families, and these things that seem
so obvious but seem like such hard fights. I feel
like it would be impossible for you to work as
hard for all these people for as long as you
have if you weren't always walking into rooms with those
stories fresh in your mind.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Right, You've hit on something pretty profound that I can't
leave those stories behind me when I'm out there fighting,
you know, in Harlem or the Bronx, as I was
last week to have snap benefits restored. You know the
embarrassment that already exists when you you're a kid and
you know your parents have to go use food stamps.
(10:03):
My husband's family use food stamps when he was growing up.
He had tough circumstances as well. His father got very
sick when he was young and didn't bring home the
paycheck as a as a person who used to make
cabinets at a factory, And so families suffer. But I
also know that they need a champion. They need someone
(10:24):
who has had that lived experience, but also with the
heartfull of gratitude to know that I broke out of
those circumstances. My dad got an education, he could leave
the trailer park and get a better job, and eventually
the houses got bigger and nicer. But not everybody has
that same shot. And so when you take away food
from families, and I remember back my mom would try
(10:46):
to stretch a can of spam. That's disgusting. You open
up a canna spans all this jelly crap on it,
and I think they used to use it in the
military and they'd slice it up, but you'd fry it
and put it between stale bread and call it dinner.
Sometimes we had a lot of pancakes for dinner because
you could feed a family of eight with a lot
of pancakes. I'm thinking about that when I'm thinking about
how are families today when that pancake mix costs so
(11:08):
much more than didn't even my mom had to buy it. Yes,
they're struggling. So when people think about affordability as just
a sort of a branding word, these are real people's lives.
It's all about struggle, and they need to know that
there's someone who will fight like hell for them. We
will stand up to Donald Trump and the Republicans who
unleashed this pain all across America just to score political points.
(11:32):
And I believe they lost that war because it looks
so cruel and so depraved to say, the first time
in American history when there's been a government shutdown that
they didn't keep the nutrition programs flowing. They're sitting on
six billion dollars in reserves to do that, and they
went to court to stop that from happening. That is
a new low in our history. And we turn our
(11:54):
backs on hungry families and senior citizens. And so that
just motivates me to get out there and call it
out for what it is. Yeah, stand up for these
people and know that their stories resign within me as well.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I don't want to glaze over you know how
your career began serving in local positions and then going
to Congress and them being the lieutenant.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Governor and then the governor. But this is exactly the.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Thing that has been the top of mind for me,
is knowing how you carry your own story, your own family,
and all of your constituents stories and families into rooms
when you advocate the snap Thing's making me crazy because
not only not only is there this really insidious idea
(12:41):
and we all know, you know, my lovely listeners at
home care about being engaged and being educated on where
we come from. We know what the myth of the
welfare queen is. We know that it came from attacking
black women, particularly in this country. That the largest beneficiaries
of quote welfare SNAP benefits in America are white families.
(13:02):
We also know that nobody who's getting these benefits is
like live and large on them. You're not abusing a
system by having the difference between a starvation meal and
a meal that actually will let you and your kids
sleep through the night. The people abusing the system are
the corporations that pay their workers so little that gainfully
(13:24):
employed Americans have to get food stamps to make up
the difference. You know this, and I'm going to say
this for the folks at home who might have missed
the statistic. But when you look at the increase in
CEO wages c suite wages, and then you look at
minimum wage stagnating, if minimum wage had kept up with
CEO pay and also inflation, it wouldn't be seven to
(13:47):
twenty five an hour, it would be twenty six dollars
an hour. And then none of these people, all the
Walmart and Amazon employees that are on SNAP wouldn't need it.
People need it because they're being paid unlivable wages by
incredibly greedy and increasingly greedy corporations that are bragging about
their earnings on their shareholder calls and then turning around
(14:09):
and saying they can't afford to pay the people who've
made them all billionaires in the first place. Makes me
just a tad infuriated and messed off.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
And I'm pissed off as well. But let me just
get you the more pissed off. It's not on just
the nutrition programs where they have to use stamp benefits.
So many of those workers at the big box stores
and the Amazons and the walmarts, they're only having them
work thirty or thirty five hours a week instead of forty,
so they don't have to pay them full time health case,
(14:36):
your healthcare. So guess who's paying for that? Many of
them are on Medicaid paid for by state tax payers, Yes,
when it's supposally paid by the corporation that's benefiting from
their sweat and their labor. Yes, And that to me
is the next fight.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
And so oh, I'm just so angry, but like in
a good way.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Sometimes I think people look at women who are politically engaged,
and I'm like, oh, you're so angry. I'm like, no,
I'm sacredly angry. I'm angry like a mom is angry
when her kid gets hurts.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
What are you talking about? It's and so.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
When I think about this stuff, and you know the
ins and outs, and I think the more we can
give those details to our audiences, to our constituencies, the
more informed they can be when they have those dinner
table conversations with their families or they walk into a
voting booth. How do you when to your earlier point,
(15:29):
you see the federal government, for the first time in
American history, go to court to fight for the right
to starve its own citizens. I mean, the GOP is
literally on the floor going, let us take away your
health care or we'll starve you. This is barbaric. How
do you, as a state leader fight back? Because yes,
(15:52):
you've got the power of New York, but you're.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Also not the president.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
So like, how do you get on the chess board
with moves like this with a Donald Trump and a
speaker Johnson? How do you defend your state?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
A lot of it goes right to the courts. We
won on snap benefits in two courts, right, and we
are feeling good. I already because this had gone on
for so long and the snap benefits were literally running
out and had been running out. I had to put
one hundred million dollars into food banks around the state
to fortify them. And I had to enlist my Volunteer Corps,
(16:27):
my States Civic Engagement Teams, hundreds of young people to
come down and work at the food base. I had
to figure out a plan quickly to do this. But
at the same time, we're in court, and we won
it in court, which is so maddening that to take
it all the way to the Supreme Court, and how
the Supreme Court did not side with us, I will
never know and let historians figure that one out. But
(16:47):
this was a moment in our history when we turned
our backs as a nation on struggling people. So I
will use all the tools at my dispose of what
part of it is also just doing the press conferences
and calling so it's in the public's mind who did
this to them, and so they take that with them
when they go vote the next time and who they
decide who's on their side. A lot of people fell
(17:10):
for Donald Trump talking about affordability in the election just
one year ago, and then this week he says, I
don't know why everybody talks about affordability. There's so many
other things. Do they not view that as a blatant
betrayal of the trust that the voters put in him.
They just don't give a damn And that's what's so troubling.
So I'm out there using this. I was actually saw
(17:33):
a social media post that our mayor electro Mondani was
sitting with a veteran on Veterans Day and the veteran
was saying, I'm also happy Kathy Hokeel helped keep the
snap benefits and put money out there for us, because
so that means it's sinking into the psychology of who
was fighting for them against those who were trying to
hurt them. That's what has to happen for the electorate
(17:55):
to start shifting their attitude about who's the best fighter
for them. It's always been the Democrats, There's always will
be the Democrats, and we can't lose our way and
let Republicans take what is our narrative that we are
the ones who actually care about people and to lift
them up and help struggling families and seniors and veterans.
(18:16):
So we just and your messaging here today and your
storytelling and getting this is all part of the ecosystem
that needs to exist from people who are different than
the Republicans that are running everything in Washington. There's actually
people who have a heart.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
really enjoy and I think you will too. I'm so
curious what your thoughts are because you've you know, you
hate to use the phrase game. It's not a game.
This is really life or death. But like as the
(18:54):
adage goes, you've been in the game for a minute.
You know what they say versus what they do. You know,
we knew Donald Trump was saying he was going to
lower the price of groceries, but we all read Project
twenty twenty five and knew that wasn't going to happen.
We know they're trying to create a true mass poverty
class and an oligarchy for them and their friends. But
(19:17):
for some reason, the facts didn't get through, even the
fact that you know jd Vance is allegedly invested in
that company that's buying up bankrupt farms for pennies on
the dollar and selling them to international firms, like and
now our farmers are going bankrupt and we're giving forty
billion dollars to Argentina when it would only cost thirty
six billion to extend the medicaid subsidies.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Like I feel like I'm in the upside down?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
And so why do you think the truth of our
message doesn't connect in the way their lies do, or
did at least during the election, Like in hindsight, what
do you think we need to do differently? And how
can I and everyone listening to how can we help?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
I a lot of fronts on this, and I give
it a great deal of thought about First of all,
people talk about messaging, they're better at messaging, Well, what
does that mean? What does that mean? Because I've been
saying that since I was young staffer on Capitol Hill,
first senator, way back, Like why is there messaging? Does it?
Why is there fit out a bumper sticker? And we
feel like we have to explain a twenty point plan
(20:23):
and walk people through as if we professors as opposed
to real people, ourselves, And in one sense it's viewed
as condescending to people that you think you're no more
than me, and you're not down here in the trenches
where I am, And that's part of our problem in
our communication skills. Like I love walking to a diner
(20:44):
any day of the week. I do it in New
York City constantly. I just I like to just walk
people to the tables, like, hey, what's going on. Oh
you're a cute little kid or a senior citizen. You're
talking about your family, and that seems more to me
it's real, But to others they want that relatability, and
their elected officials is a who is someone who's speaking
behind a podium and telling them how it has to be.
(21:04):
So we just have to get out there with people
and stop being on this you know this in this
ivory tower of being know it alls. That's that's a
real problem we have. The other part is they are
so much better in the social media influencer space. They
are just they have been. We've got a lot of
catch up to do. I've seen some studies on this
(21:24):
where people, you know, Republicans have far more programs and
sort of the echo chamber where they keep saying the
same thing over and over, it gets out of there
and it blasts out to the rest of the world.
Ours may stay in this chamber where we're sitting here
having these smart conversations and we have some really good answers,
But how does it then blast out to regular people?
(21:46):
And that's when someone figures that out. That will be
enormously helpful in the twenty twenty six elections for our congressionals,
you know, ivor race, our Senate races. There's a lot
on the line in twenty six. But also, you know,
we have new leaders like Zorn Mandani who figured out
how to connect with people in a very human, funny way.
(22:06):
We got to keep it. You can never get up
your sense of humor in this business. You just can't,
because then you're less. You're not human if you can't
talk about this and just you know, be a little
more self deprecating about life. You know, we're just regular
people who happen to have a different job title than most.
I'll never change that perspective. And I think with the
new energy that came here in New York City, what
(22:28):
I said is I don't need that for the twenty
twenty six elections for Congress in New York City. Probably
going to be a Democrat, I'm pretty sure. Can you
go out to Long Island. Can you go up to
the Hudson Valley. Can you help me over in Syracuse?
How about the North Country where at least a phonic
is giving up her seat that she actually gave up
a long time ago, just been sitting in it. And
(22:51):
can we harness that energy all around the state and
also not have our people just go around to other
states that seem more fun to go to. I know
this always happens around election time. Stay in your own state.
I lead the Democratic Party. I wanted to be a
deep bench. We trained the young people who are going
to be running the next time, but also giving them
political experience, you know, help on campaigns, working in an office.
(23:12):
Do what I did when I was growing up, where
I was cutting my teeth in politics, the youngest and
the only girl in a room in high school. But
I was surrounded by smart older guys, like college age
guys and college graduates. We're all running the campaigns for
governor and for president and for senator. I was sitting
there absorbing it all, and I loved it, and I've
(23:35):
never lost that love. Because that's how you'll elect people
who will be out there fighting for others. Yeah, and
so I think we can harness the energy that we
just saw this past election here in New York City
and spread it all over well, I sure hope.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
So it's a little frustrating. I feel like our balloon
was really getting inflated. You know, we had so many
great wins that we needed to push back against this
authoritarian regime, and then the Democrats caved, and it really
feels like it takes the wind out of our sales.
Why why do you think after forty five days of
(24:15):
holding the line, eight people defected?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Like, what's the what's the deal?
Speaker 1 (24:21):
And I don't want to be such a cynic to
believe you know some of the things I've seen online
which are like, well a bunch of them. Their biggest
donors are the airlines, and they threatened the airports and
now they're caving. It's got to be there's got to
be a bigger picture, right, Can can you help us understand?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I can't speak to why eight people, nine people, whatever
the number was, defected, But you look at their states,
their battleground states. They have to worry about both sides
because and I will tell you I'm one Democrat, it's
it's fun and easy to be a purist like it's
got this is, this is I believe in all these things,
and if you don't believe in every one of them,
(24:56):
that I'm not with you. And we do that to ourselves.
We have too often we are the circular firing squad
among other Democrats. And guess what, that's how Republicans win
because they don't do that. They're more disciplined than that.
So I would say, if we could find the common
ground that hey, we're Democrats and they're Democrats, they're Republicans,
(25:17):
let's stick together. So I don't want to go second.
Guests with the politics are in their home state. But
some of them, some Democrats, in some parts of our country,
they may have to do things that we might as
pure ASTs, say is wrong. But if it's not them,
it's going to be a Republican city that seat. And
that's when you're in the city, you don't realize that
Republicans are New York State is now a purple state.
(25:39):
That is hard for me to accept as someone who's
been involved in politics my whole life. But the reality
is we've lost a lot of ground and Republicans are
enrolling people. Why aren't we doing more to roll Democrats
to believe in us, and we have to give them
the story, the narrative to tell. So on that issue,
I don't have an answer on why they did what
(26:01):
they did, But all I know is that Republicans, when
they put this up for a vote, if they really
are on extending the healthcare premiums, because right now, someone
paying two thousand dollars a month for health insurance has
just been told it's now four thousand, not a year
a month, and how is that sustainable? So Republicans are
letting that happen. And I'm telling you as much as
(26:23):
I want that to not happen to the extent it's
going to and that gets weaponized against every one of them.
So there is also a way to turn this bad
dynamic into something that can least change the narrative and
the election next year and in twenty twenty seven, which
seems like an eternity away. We have Democrats at least
(26:43):
in the House representatives, we can have a firewall to
stop what they're doing to the American people.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
And now, for our sponsors, it's hard to stomach that
we're in a position where we've got leadership that is
so focused on making money for itself, and I mean,
in the case of the White House, billions of dollars,
the Trump family's making billions at the expense of everyone else,
(27:14):
you know, And I think for me, you know, my
dad's from Canada. He moved here in the seventies to
go to college and became a citizen when I was thirteen.
So when people say do it the right way, I'm like,
you don't know what that means, because my dad was
like a you know, doing great middle class white guy
(27:34):
from Canada, and it was still hard. And I think
a lot about my exposure to another place and to
family and another place, and the fact that you know,
here in America we spend more per capita on healthcare
than any other pure nation, and we don't have We're
the only ones with a for profit healthcare system instead
(27:57):
of healthcare being seen as a public good, healthcare as
a human right.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
And it makes me feel.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Crazy because not only are we talking about, to your point,
this Republican party that chooses the abject suffering of people
that aren't in the billionaire class, but also profits from it.
And it's like, we haven't we haven't voted all these
people out yet, but here we are and we're still
(28:25):
We're still in the fight. And I know, for me
and clearly for you and for so many people we
spend our time with, we're not going to give it up.
We're not giving up the fight. We're not going anywhere.
Why do you think then, that there has been so
much of a of a fear or a freak out
around our mayor elect here in New York? You know, Mom,
(28:48):
Donnie's talking about fixing some of the wealth inequity, shoring
up the kinds of programs that would allow for access
that you know, not to like live in a rom com,
But I remember how New York felt to me as
a kid in the nineties. I'm like, I miss that
(29:10):
in New York. What if it could come back a
little bit, Like what if more people got to live
here and experience this place, in this great diversity that
we used to have more of. Do you think maybe
some of the rhetoric about him coming from the right
is really just because they're scared that we're poking holes
in the fact that trickle down economics doesn't work and
(29:31):
a billionaire oligarchy isn't what we want in America.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I think it's simple than that. I think they're always
looking for an enemy. They're always looking for someone to demonize,
someone to get people to turn on, you know, the other,
and that has been the secret of their success. From
the president, I'm down, damn. And so he hits the
profile like, oh my gosh, she's born from some another
country and he practiced religion that I don't practice. They're
(29:57):
thinking he has different beliefs. But what he touched was
a nerve that was so real and so visceral to people.
It's like, you said, I'm just not getting ahead, and
he articulated that sense. We've been talking about affordability for
a number of years, but really focused on it last
January and whether it's every child in the state of
(30:20):
New York now gets free breakfast and lunch in schools,
so it's an affordability issue. It puts about thirty two
hundred dollars back in a family's pocket if you have
two kids. I mean that's huge. Plus time the people
quote me on the streets of New York say thank
God at the pack of the lunches and make the breakfast. Yeah,
so I'm a mom, you know. It's that's that's like
(30:41):
something that was criticized wildly by the Republicans. What do
you mean you're giving free stuff to kids because I
don't think little kids should enter tummy's growling in a
classroom because they were too embarrassed to show that they
were getting subsidized lunches, had to go in a different
line or be notifed. People know it's them, and so
they skip their lunches. This is real. They skip their
(31:02):
lunches because they don't want to be stigmatized. I can't
live in a state that has that. How we're feeding
our kids, or the money that we did with the
middle class tax cut, the biggest tax rate cut, so
the middle class knows where you haven't forgotten them too.
And for moms with kids, their parents with kids under
the age of one, one thousand dollars check to help
you cover the diapers, the formula, the little outfits they
(31:25):
keep out growing all the time. So I've added up
it's about five thousand dollars and plus the inflation rebate,
which a lot of people just got four hundred dollars
in their pockets. I had a guy coaching on the shiels.
My god, someone stole my laptop. I could buy a
new one with the money just sent me. That made
a difference to Its a big deal. So that's how
I'm making a difference by putting money backs pockets and
(31:48):
focusing on prioritizing families and their needs, and even something
that didn't cost money, but banning cell phones in schools,
Like I'm telling you, why did we even go a
decade saying it's okay for children to be sitting there
watching TikTok dance videos instead of listening to the math
teacher crazy and being surprised that the outcomes aren't Why
(32:08):
aren't they showed better results on tests because we let
them have this toy, this distraction that is also can
be pretty detrimental to their mental health, and that's why
we're seeing a real increase in young, truly teenage girls
having mental health challenges. So we're ending that in New
York and every other state ow to do the same thing. Yeah,
never again.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
That's a huge win.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
And they're making friends again. I know they're talking to
each other, they're bringing cards and games to lunch together.
So I love the stories. And we just did this
in September, and I'm going to say this is one
of the most non partisan you know, Initius we ever launched,
didn't cost us any money, and it's had a profound
(32:52):
effect on families and individuals, and those are the wins
we should be talking about, because anybody could have done
it before me. Nobody wanted to stand to all the
entrench interests that told me no, which is so crazy.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
And you know, when you think about it, there's you know,
this was the year of Jonathan Haates, the Anxious Generation,
phenomenal book to explain some of this. I think about
how anxious my own phone makes me. And I'm an adult,
you know, I grew up without a cell phone like this,
and then in high school had like, you know, a
little Nokia you know, T nine, You're like one, two three,
(33:26):
T got it. And to think about what these kids
are facing, you know, and then to go a layer deeper.
Another book I read, which if you haven't read, I
will send to you because it's fabulous tiny. It's called
How to Break Up with Your Phone, and it actually
talks about all the research that went into designing smartphones.
And it's the same research they use to design slot machines.
They're made to be.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Addictive, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
And it's wild, right, and so when I think about
wins like this, whether it's fiscal policy or social policy,
you're talking about prioritizing people wellness, about ensuring community. You know,
when I hear you talk about even those four hundred
dollars checks that just went out, the average American is
one four hundred dollars unexpected medical bill away from bankruptcy.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
It doesn't have to be like that.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
And you know, we've got leadership in Washington that wants
billionaires to be able to write off private jets, but
doesn't think teachers should be able to write off construction paper.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
It's like, what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So when you think about these things, you know, even
the way you talk about Mom Donnie's election and how
the point is to bring more voices from our party
to the table to find solutions.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
For everybody, how do you take what a lot of.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Folks in the city view as a win and what
you know some of your more rural voters might be
a little afraid of because of what you said, the
messaging about the other Oh, you're supposed to be scared.
You really, you kind of get to be like the
mom of our state. You know, you get to talk
to the kids and be like, settle down.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Everybody talk to folks about I'll say that all the time,
and there was you know, I feel like I've been
the therapist in chief for a lot of people. Oh
my god, you know I'm leaving now. I'm selling my
penthouse because you know, I'm not going to make the
invest I said, everybody has calm down, you know, calm down.
We're going to be fine. You know, I will work
(35:27):
with him to help him be successful, because no one
who's smart is ever going to root against New York City.
Want our mayors to be successful, and so you know
we speak regularly, you know, very friendly relationship. And I
don't need to have this epic power struggle that my
predecessors and others would have between the governor and the
mayor of New York because it's like it's a clash
(35:48):
of Titan egos, like who gets more credit? Who gets
did the press conference first on the same topic, where
I'm like, let's do a press conference together. We're both
fighting crime in the subways, we're both dealing with the
homelessness crisis, we're bothocusing on building more housing. Why aren't
we doing this together? And I'll give money to help
support the mayor's initiatives. I did that under Eric Adams,
you know, the City of Yes to build more housing.
(36:10):
It was dead until I camp with money to get
over the finish line, and so we can do those things.
So everybody should just doalt all back you, Yeah, I
think to the rural anywhere else. It's not just rural areas.
There's a lot of people in New York City who
are very anxious. Let him have a chance to prove
he can govern and surround himself with talented people who
(36:32):
know what to do. Also know it's a four year
term and possibly longer. Everything can't possibly happen in the
first six months. Even the first year you start planning
the seeds to my cell phone policy. I had to
spend a year going around the state persuading people that
this was a good idea, and then we got it done.
(36:52):
My housing policy I started the first year, didn't win
second year, came back at it. So I just want
everybody to think about the fact that there's so many
other issues that a mayor has to worry about too. Yep,
he's got to focus on public safety number one. If
he keeps Jessica Tish, I think that'll calm a lot
of people down. And I say, he said he would.
Let's keep working on homelessness in the subways, in the streets.
(37:14):
Let's make sure the garbage gets picked up so they
can't blame you for that. You know, Let's get rid
of the rats. Keep killing rats, get rid of the scaffolding.
I walk around the city. I don't see the sun
for ten blocks I walk every day. So there's just
the nuts and bolts of governing the city. If he
can demonstrate then he's doing all that and people aren't like, oh,
my life really hasn't changed. I guess I'm gonna be okay.
(37:37):
Time will bear that out. And also his major initiatives.
We're having conversations about them. What's in the realm of possibility?
How we get to yes, what time frame and so so, No,
we're going to be like I feel like we're gonna
be fine Everyboddy.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
I'm excited. And I think particularly the grit of New
York and the way this place stands as this beacon
for the country, but also at current stands up against
the administration. You know, whether it's Letitia James refusing to
back down, and I mean that's ridiculously bogus charged despite
what was in her mortgage contract, Like, what are we doing?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Donald Trump?
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You know, to even you, you know you're about to
go into a battle with Alis Stefanik, who I just
think has betrayed people left, right and center. And I'm
excited to see you take her on. You count me
in for any campaign events you've got as you think
about these things ahead, you know, the progress you want
to make here in the city and around the state,
and the fights that are coming, and also the wins
(38:37):
you know, snap and cell phones and so much more
for people who live here in New York. When you
look toward twenty twenty six, what feels like you're working progress.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
My work in progress is truly childcare. Well, that is
something that I had to leave a job I love
John capitol Hill because it was no childcare I could afford. Yeah,
when I was a young mom, and my kids have
grown up, they still struggle with that as well. Yeah,
and so that to me. I just sat down with
some business leaders today. I said, this used to be
(39:10):
a problem for a family as vis like, well, you
chose to have kids, you figured out, I said, this
is a problem for society but also for our economy.
If we don't have everyone functioning at high levels and
be able to go to the jobs that are helping
make you profitable, you should be concerned about that. Yes,
or missus business person like this should be a solution
(39:35):
we all want to have because every likely woman, but
every parent who wants to work can work, then we
are more productive as a society. So let's just continue
what I've been talking about for years. And I've already
invested seven billion dollars in childcare since I double and
part of it was opening up new spaces, training people,
(39:56):
getting the infrastructure in place, because you can't promise everybody
childcare and then not have a place for them to
go right or an instructor there to take care of them.
So that's the ground building I've been doing for years.
I've said I want to get universal childcare, and this
is a big priority for the mayor elect. But we
(40:16):
also just step back and say, okay, what else is missing?
If we promise something and someone calls it, I'm ready
for my universal child because say, oh, we still have
to open up, you know, twenty more buildings and have
hundreds of more slots to be able to do that.
I don't want to pull a rug out from people.
We have to have a realistic path to get there.
Speaker 1 (40:35):
Yeah, and that kind of infrastructure takes time, but it's
thrilling to watch you continue to invest in it, especially
in a time in our society where everyone wants the
quickest turnover, the quickest win, the quickest own on social media.
You are doing the building so that we can look
back in five, ten, fifteen years and say.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Look what we did. I want to get it done tomorrow.
You know, I'm impatient, Oh, of course, but we lost
a lot of ground with the pandemic. A lot of
childcare centers literally closed up, which is why so many
parents were staying home. We have people that are finding
that they can make more money because minimum wage in
our fast food store is just twenty dollars an hour. Yes,
(41:18):
and they make less if they're working at a daycare
center or child care facility. And so there has to
be a resetting of those values, so to speak. So
I want know we'll get there. Yeah, but the system
isn't ready right now. But we need to have the
grace to be able to work together figure out what's
(41:39):
missing to get us to that place. You're building the
plane as you find. It's impressive, but it's good. It's
a priority.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
It makes me think of something something that Kamala Harris said,
and I think back to the wonderful event you all
did with all the female governors at the DNC.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
It was so special.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
I was so thrilled to be in the room. And
her pushback on this idea that you know, universal childcare
is somehow a socialist policy, she was like, no, no,
it's capitalism with a good ROI because parents who have
childcare go and make more money, and then their companies
make more money. It actually is a relatively low cost
investment when you look at it against what it creates
(42:18):
in profit. And so I love that that is I
love that. That's that's your bone. You're never going to
wut down because we need it.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
No, I tell CEOs, one of your big problems is retention.
You train someone, they're great, they're awesome, they're producing, and
then they want to have a family if you don't
support them during that time. Again, the time from when
before they hit you know, if it's three year old
pre K or four yel pre Yeah, it's just a
few years. If you help them through that you have
(42:50):
a childcare center on site. Yes, and that's what we're
doing with this big Micron company. That's where we brought
It's the largest private sector investment in American history building
semiconductors in Syracuse.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Casual.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
They had to build a childcare center as a condition
of getting our money. Yes, So the bigger guys have
the space build a childcare center. Smaller ones can have Consourtius.
I think while we're working on our piece of it,
let the private sector realize you should do this too.
It's in your interest and that employee will stay with
you for life if you get them through those early years.
(43:24):
That's it. So we can help solve some problems.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
And it's how you build community and a great economy.
Thank you so much, Governor. I know you've got to run.
I see everybody starting to look at their watches. I
just so appreciate you being here today. And yeah, you
tell us where to be for this next election, We're ready.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
I appreciate it very much. Thank you for having your
voice help lead the fight.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
Thank you
Host
Sophia Bush
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.