RBG: What She Did And What Can Be Done

The team has an honest talk about RBG and what to expect in the weeks to come.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Worst Year Ever, A production of I Heart
Radio to Get Everything. So don't don't welcome back to

(00:22):
the Worst Year Ever. My name is Katie Stole. My
name isn't Katie Stole, so there it could be Katie.
I'm gonna file a complaint in a portal law. Yeah,
fighting already. Cheez heck, guys, Cheeze's Cody Cody, and I'm

(00:44):
Robert talking to you all from the anarchist jurisdiction of
Port Oregon, not to be confused with the anarchist jurisdiction
of Seattle, Washington, No Or New York City. Very exciting
week for the anarchist movement. UM. Honestly, decades of struggle.
They did it. They did it in region of some
twenty six million people. UM, and the federal government has surrendered.

(01:06):
So very exciting times to be an anarchist. Completely different
world that we live in every single week. Yeah. Frustrating
that there's still all of these police officers on the street.
I didn't expect that in my anarchist jurisdiction. Confusing, I
didn't expect there to be jurisdictions in my anarchist any right.
Inherently a bit of an oxymoron. Yeah. Yeah, anarchists don't

(01:31):
believe in jurists as a as a general rule, not
a whole lot in addiction either. Um. Not a hierarchical ideology, no,
um no not not not one where you tend to
have borders. In fact, that's kind of one of the
things you're not allowed to You're not supposed to do,
I mean not allowed. Like if there's at about like

(01:55):
like the police spying on people's phone calls in Portland
during protests to find out of the anarchists, maybe that's like, okay,
well is there one? Yeah, see, Cody, this is why
when the protests were at their height, I would call
you every week and just talk about crimes. Yeah, it
was throw them off, etcetera. Yeah, Um, that's the call.

(02:24):
Just just chatting about felonies with my buddy. Cody's possible felonies,
not like probable felons, theoretical fellows. Trying exactly desperately to
figure out how to pivot this conversation into the topic
that we're discussing this week. You know who liked felonies,

(02:44):
Vader Ginsburg. Oh God, jurisdiction. The word jurisdiction. I feel
like all of this ties into Ruth Theader Ginsburg, famed anarchist,
famed anarchist RBG, the resistance hero um spying on Robert
and my phone calls. Guys, maybe that was too far.

(03:10):
I mean, I don't know. We're on very different wavelengths,
but I'm into it. Um, yeah, I know we we are.
We are here today to talk about Ruth Bader Ginsburg,
her passing, the implications, what this means, the fight that
we have ahead, all of that really jolly stuff. You

(03:31):
guys are ready for this, No, in no way ready
for I don't think anybody is, or was or can be.
But here we go. On Friday. That's right, Sophie, that
size exactly right. On Friday, every American UH with a
conscious collectively tweeted fuck I was gonna say, yelled fuck,

(03:51):
I wrote yelled. We all yelled fuck or tweeted it
or texted it whatever on the timeline. Just an instant,
instantaneous reverberation across the country when we all saw that
headline pop up on our phones. UM. Yes, RBG has
passed away from complications of metastic pancreatic cancer at the

(04:12):
age of eighty seven. Um, this is yeah, it's hard.
I I don't need to explain what the potential implications Sorry,
hold on, um, I don't think we need to explain
what the potential implications of this loss means for reproductive rights,

(04:35):
for voting rights, for our future. It's all very daunting
and dire. Um. And it's messy. I'm gonna be a
little personal here. It's messy for me. My emotions surrounding
her death. It really hit me hard. It still is
hitting me hard. I feel emotional even right now talking
about it. Um. And this is a generalization, I'm sure, definitely,

(04:57):
but at least in my circle, I'm seeing that women
in particular are really feeling this loss, like down into
our core. There's a lot of fear and grief. Um.
You know what, what she's done for women is undeniable. Um.
What we all stand to lose is undeniable. Uh. And
it's very deep, uh feeling for me. Um And I

(05:21):
don't mean to suggest that other that men aren't also
feeling this kind of fear and pain. But she represented
so much for women. She was a if when you
when you thought of RBG, you thought of hope, you
thought of strength, you thought of you thought of possibility.
You know, you thought of like she she got her

(05:41):
set at the table, and she wanted she wanted to
give yours. She showed us that it's possible. She you know,
she she changed things for a lot of women, for
all women. But at the same time, grief is messy.
Even with how sad I am, at the same time,
I'm also feeling a lot of fresh traction and anger

(06:02):
towards her. Yeah, if I'm being honest, you know, not
or who you can be mad at people who have
a lot of power over society and the choices that
they make. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's the it is.
It is going back to anarchism. One of the things,

(06:25):
one of the reasons that I think there's a lot
of wisdom and anarchism is that when you when you
start building these horizontal systems, the people on top of
them get addicted to being in that position, and even
if they're there don't want to do good things, it's
very hard for those people to step back and maybe
take a decision that is right for everyone else them

(06:47):
not being in that position anymore, because being in those
positions is addictive, which is why they're bad. Yeah, I mean,
I might look I do, and I agree with you.
I see other sides of this conversation, but at my core,
I agree with you. I mean, if she had chosen
to step down during Obama's first term, uh definitely would

(07:08):
have been safe. He so, he definitely would have been safe. Um.
You know, And and it's tricky, you know. Within my
circle of friends, I've brought this up, and at first
there was a lot of resistance. Like one of my
friends was like, please don't do that right now, and
I was like, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to, you know, um,
diminish your grief. I'm feeling that too. I I just

(07:29):
also feel like both of these things can be true.
And then a few days later, other friends in this
text chain were like, you know what, I've been thinking
about it, and I agree with you, and I think
that that's a really important thing that we need to
allow for ourselves. Like our heroes aren't infallible. They make mistakes.
I I read a New York Times piece about why

(07:51):
she chose not to retire, and it's definitely in her defense,
but there's some truth to it, you know. It tries
to shed some light on this decision. And you know,
they point out how the thrust of her work hasn't
been women deserve this chance more than men. It's that
women deserve equality. And after Sandra Day O'Connor left for
a long time, she you know, she was the only

(08:13):
woman on the court, and you know, there still isn't
enough aren't enough women on the court. And so there's
something I understand how there yes power and all of
that stuff is wrapped up in that she has things
that she wanted to see done and and our lifetimes
are so short in the grand scheme of things, and

(08:33):
you want to make every every last moment out of it.
That's also kind of a criticism about like American work
ethic and capitalism in general, that we feel that people
have to change the world, that all of this burden
is on you know, your lifetime and that's all you
for life. And and I want to talk about that
in a second, but you know, you know, Sandra Day

(08:55):
O'Connor also talked about how much she regretted her choice
to leave when she did um and then you look
at her peers, Ginsburg's peers, you know, old men that
aren't retiring, you know, so there there is an element
of that, but then, like you said, Robert, there's also
just let's not discount the fact that people in power

(09:16):
like to stay in power. Um, right, And it wasn't
just her at the time, to like, even like when
people were bringing up like she's had cancer a couple
of times, she falls, she's like getting old, she falls
asleep during court sometimes, like during that period, they were
calling for others to do the same thing. It was,
it wasn't just her. It was just this general uh
feeling of like, maybe we should deal with this now

(09:39):
before well, I mean, maybe Logan's run was kind of right,
and at thirty five, we should just put people on
an island instead of let them be president. But we
should also force all people over thirty five onto an island.

(10:02):
Therefore no presidents, but we don't have to change the constitution,
which is a real pain. Yeah. And then there's this
other country that's only presidents. Yeah. Um. That speaks to
my next point that I was going to make, which
is my frustration with her decision to continue to serve
is there. But I also feel just this huge anger

(10:23):
about this fucking system that appoints justices for lifetime. You know,
it just does not make any sense. Elderly people. Many
elderly people have their licenses taken away because it's no
longer safe for them to drive. But what we have
allow for the fact that this person is going to
age in a you know, and develop any number of

(10:45):
different problems that can affect their ability to serve, not
to mention just the fact that you're old and you
you know, you deserve a chance to stop. Um, she
never should have been in this position. Yeah, I just
want to make a point to what you were saying, though,
Like she doesn't get to she didn't get to pick
her replacement. She won't get done, she doesn't have any

(11:06):
sort of say in it. Um, even if it was
Barack Obama picking it, you're still putting your trust into
somebody else to replace you and then hope that you know,
a bunch of other people go yes. So I mean,
the control from reasons like oh, I just canna. I

(11:28):
I can understand emotionally the decision to want to stay.
In many ways, that doesn't change the fact that I
also think she should have retired when she had the chance.
That I also think that I would have retired, you know,
and like infusing stuff like that in politics and systems. Uh,
emotion doesn't belong there. Uh, that's not where it's supposed

(11:51):
to go and what it's supposed to fuel. Um, So
yeahs and positions of power from now on, that'll that'll
battle thing. Well, you know, yeah, I think that's a
good call. Um. I mean, I have a lot of
issues with with Ruth Bader ginsburg Um, both with kind
of some of her final decisions, one of which involved

(12:13):
letting a pipeline get constructed on indigenous land. But more
than anything, my issue is like this is is the
issue that keeps coming up. It's the same issue we
have with the electoral College, the same issue we have
with a lot of the powers of the presidency. This
was a system, like lifetime appointments for justices, was a
was an attempt to solve a problem by a bunch

(12:36):
of men who existed in a time period where all
of the lights were candles and all travel was either
on foot or horseback, and they were doing the best
they could to develop a system that had a balance
of powers. And it was it was a Yeah, it
was an impressive attempt two hundreds something years ago. Uh,

(12:57):
it's not two hundreds something years ago, and it's stupid
to do it this way. It's just stupid and we
shouldn't and I hate that that doesn't matter and never will. Yeah, yeah, um,
I mean, wild idea, but maybe the best idea for
a nation ever wasn't thought up by these goons a
few hundred years ago, we keep and that wasn't thought

(13:20):
up by a group of men of whom shaped themselves
to death. Statistically, Yeah, I mean, I agree with everything
that you guys are saying for sure. Um, I'm just
still of course, she's not every decision she made. There's
plenty of things that can be broken down and and

(13:40):
you know, criticized. Um, but she did do an undeniable
it's a huge loss. It's a huge loss. She's done
so much, so much for women, for equality, um, all
of that. Um. And I'm sure most of you know this,
But her dying request was that my most fervent wish
is that I will not be replaced until a new

(14:01):
president is installed. And yet within hours, hours, hours, Mitch McConnell, Yeah,
he's announcing that it will happen. I've got mixed feelings
about that, and we're going to talk about that. Cody's
prepared a whole section. Oh, no, I or pieces of

(14:22):
a section. I don't know what he's prepared were we're
going to talk about, um, what happens next? Um? But
I do I do think that I'm gonna um seeing
a couple of Ruth praises here now in memorium. You know,
she fought tirelessly for gender equality under the law. She
battled sexism in her own life and career. She juggled
motherhood and caring for her cancer stricken husband while he

(14:45):
was they were both still in law school. I mean,
this one is amazing. She was raising kids, she was
doing her own coursework, she was typing up his papers
all while he was sick. As a Supreme Court justice,
you know, she became a role model for female identifying people.
I should say, um. She was the first new class
at Columbia Law School. She was the first person in

(15:07):
both the Columbia and Harvard Law Reviews. She was the
second female professor at Rutger's and champion equal pay. While
she was there, she co founded the first law journal
and women's rights. She co founded the Women's Rights Project
at a c l U. Before she was a justice,
she argued six cases before the Supreme Court and won
five of them. During this time, she solidified what became

(15:30):
as her like signature approach um of of combating sexism
by bringing lawsuits on behalf of men who are being
untreated unequally because of their sex. Basically, the thinking here
was that male judges would appreciate the injustice in a
case where men were the victims, but then she would

(15:50):
like set the precedent for addressing the sexism that women suffered,
which is well, yeah, I mean sexism is as it
affects everybody, and that's the point, but like it's wild.
I mean before anybody was thinking of these things. She's
one of only four Supreme Court justices in history, but

(16:11):
the first one that was Jewish um and and just
the the the impact of her work in the cases
that you know she's she's done is seen in many
facets of her life. For I'm sure a lot of
you have seen this is floating around, but I've compiled
them just in case you've missed them. For example, she
helped women earn the right to sign a mortgage without

(16:32):
a man, the right for a woman to have a
bank account without a male co signer, you're right to
have a job without being discriminated based on your gender.
The right for women to be pregnant and have kids
and work. See I'm getting emotional again. That's this year
for you. The right to a pension equal to her

(16:53):
male counterparts. The right for men to receive a widowers
social security benefits. The right for a woman to put
her husband on her health insurance if if if the
employer covered workers male workers wives, um, which is yet
another equal rights victory. Uh. And that's just a small
list of some of the stuff that she's done. I

(17:18):
I know that some of you are feeling the way
I'm feeling. I see Sophia's UM, and you're feeling pretty
disheartened um by this and this moment in time. UM.
And I know you're exhausted. I'm exhausted to Uh. People
keep pointing to how Ruth Bader Ginsburg fought all her

(17:38):
life and you know, all of the seemingly insurmountable obstacles
that she overcame, and like, okay, that's unhelpful, Like what
what am I supposed to do? But there is an
inspiration I think that you can find for your own
personal life, you know, because the answer is that you
just you do what you can, and you keep showing up, um,

(17:58):
for your family, for yourself, you donate, you do mutual aid,
Call your fucking senators. I guess I don't know. He's
going to talk more about what happens next. And and
I'm not trying to be overly corny here right now,
but at least a percentage of our listeners is having
a hard time with this, So I just wanted to

(18:18):
put that in there that of course. Yeah, yeah, and Ruth.
Ruth is an example of somebody who with so much
strength that as one person you can make such an
impact for so many different people. It's just wild the

(18:42):
number the types of things she had to fight about.
Like I've known for a while, there was a period
of time where women couldn't have checking accounts on their own, um,
and it was like the seventies. Yeah. Um, It's just
it's just fucking wild. How recently all that started to change.
Um yeah, the fact that somebody, uh that she got

(19:07):
very old and died um and was alive for those
fights too. Yeah yeah, and that we've had to, you know,
rely on one almost nine year old woman as are
like last big hope for for it kills me. It

(19:29):
kills me to think of somebody who knows that they're
dying and she just also knows that you can't dying.
It's like every everybody's going, oh, yeah, we'll be we'll
be fine as long as our I mean well and
I hate we'll be fine. We'll be fine as long
as RB to hold on. But it'll be fine. It

(19:49):
always makes me well, at least she's still kicking it.
It's like, yeah, I have not been, like I've been
fucking scared as hell because she's pancreatic. Can't. Yeah, I
hated this, this threat well wedding photo for officiating that
wedding without the mask. It's like, don't do that either.
I mean I know it didn't not do but but

(20:11):
still don't always make decisions. I approve of it. I
mean this is good because it comes full circle back
to all of my feelings remain true and like my
gratitude and my grief, I'm also angry about the situation
and at her for the choices that she made. And
again it speaks to what you were talking about with

(20:33):
your text friends and stuff of like it is going
to be an emotional reaction obviously, like this person who
has had this impact. Um is now gone. We have
to deal with all this stuff. Um, and we definitely live.
You know, we're in like our political culture is very
like hero worship and stuff, and uh, it's not necessarily
always a healthy thing to do, but that's how it is.

(20:53):
And it does affect people's lives, and of course you're
gonna have that reaction. Um. And then a little while
later you said, like a lot of those people were like, actually, yeah,
it sucks that she didn't do this and this and this,
and it's kind of waking people up to those kinds
of problems. Like even this the past few days, I've
seen people who are like, well, what up do this?
Like do this? Do this? It's like, well, yeah, exactly.

(21:15):
We fell and we felt safe in Ruth's hands. We
did didn't feel safe, but safe, felt like I had
someone with that had in my back. Yeah, you felt supported.
Safe is the wrong word. You're right, felt supported. And
now it's like fucking Trump is going to get a
third pick fucking Trump and maybe second second. Of the

(21:40):
past the past three presidents, two of them did not
win the popular vote, and the most recent one gets
to pick three lifetime appointments on the Supreme Court because
we live in a democracy. Is the deal we've made
that to have a fair Supreme Court in eight seven
year old woman who beaten cancer wasn't allowed to die.

(22:04):
She should have retired from She's already had cancer a
couple of times at that point, she's beaten in the past.
It just you know, cancer comes back a lot. Anyway,
we got you beat it a couple of times, and
we're like, okay, well maybe let's not tempt this and
I'll go and there are times a charm y'all, but
let's take an take a break, and you know, we

(22:25):
won't give you a cancer cancer because you already thought it. Yeah,
that's accurate. Actually it probably would spread. And we don't
want to shut up. I'm not a doctor, but you
know what will give you candy? Candy, yeah everything, so

(22:58):
don't don't And we are back from that great full
of candy now. I feel. During the break, we had
a brief conversation about whether or not we were too
jokey up top talking about um RBG, and we decided
we're probably not. But Robert, you said it best. I mean,

(23:21):
I'm fine with it. Like there's a couple of things
number one, just as a general rule, UM, you should
never be too reverent about people in power, because that's
not a good idea. But at the end, like, like,
what's sad about this is the political implications of it. Um,
It's sad for her family that she's passed on. But
at the end of the day, we're talking about a
woman who lived an incredibly long and full life, who

(23:42):
died at an age when very that very few people
lived too. So I don't feel like we're not talking
about like a horrible terrorist attack here. I don't think
we need hushed reverence in our tones or anything like. Again,
what's sad is the political consequences of this. People, all
people die, and she got to live a very, very
long and full life. Um, And that's wonderful for her

(24:04):
in her family, and I'm sorry that they're going to
miss her. But like, I'm not gonna pretend like we
have to, you know, I mean, I will say that,
but there are again, there are a lot of people
that are hit by this, and that's okay true, and
that's um. But yeah, I think the main point that
I wanted to convey is that both things can be true.

(24:25):
You can be critical and Um, you know of the
system of her choices of you know, our political leaders,
while also honoring the things that they did that was good,
that were good. But now, Cody, you're going to talk
to us about other things that happened. Now, I mean, yeah,
we just got to talk about what we'll do. What

(24:49):
theory is up? What will we do? Um? And I
think I mean this can be a short section. Um,
vote folks. I mean there's a lot of things you
can also do. Vote, engage in a general strike. But yeah,
I know, so what I think is most immediately likely

(25:10):
to have some effect. Yeah, voting is a thing you
should do well. So here's how about the funniest moments.
I mean, he's not wrong. Go check your vote and
illustration right now. But I mean I'm not wrong technically. Um,
I'm worry about what are we people talk about? There
are options right now. I know what I'm referring to

(25:31):
when I say vote is all the senators online telling
people to vote. Um, people did vote, we voted for you.
Shut the funk up about voting in a month and
a half and maybe do something. So one thing I
don't think that it is going to help is pointing
out Republicans hypocrisy repeatedly, over and over, as if that

(25:52):
is going to matter to anybody. Are you sure you
don't want me to read this Lindsay Graham quote, I
want words against me. If there's a Republican resident in
a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term,
you can say, Lindsay Graham said, let the next Let's
let the next president, whoever it might be, take that omination.
You don't want me to read that quote, Um, you
can read it. We can read a lot of quotes.

(26:13):
We can read Ted Cruz saying that he is open
to keeping a vacancy on the Supreme Court open for
four years under Hillary Clinton. We can do all the quotes. Um,
I'm going to read an Al Franken tweet from a
few days ago. Every GOP senator who refused to give
Garland a vote and now agrees to vote for a
Trump Scotus nominee will forever be remembered as a monumental hypocrite,

(26:33):
and McConnell will live in infamy as the man who
destroyed the Senate in the court through his own lust
for power. This is true, but who cares? Um, it
won't change anybody's mind. It doesn't shame anybody into changing
their behavior. It's just saying this out loud, um, and
not that he's a senator and can do anything about it.
So okay, thanks alf back just a bit because I've
seen somebody say I I agree with you, as we

(26:54):
say on even More News, I agree with you completely
about the futility of such things, except there is, um
there is something about stating the obvious like this that
is a reminder of like, I'm not losing my mind.
I've seen that arguabent being made, so on a personal level,
I get it, but it doesn't change anything. But especially
from leaders, it's unhelpful. Well, right, So that's the thing,

(27:15):
Like I think it's it's it's a little better to like, yeah,
commissery and be like, wow, look at the truth and
reality that we can all agree on. Um. But when
it's you know, Diane Feinstein just like tweeting about how
this cannot stand and this stuff, it's like, well, what
are you going to do about it? Um? There are
some things that can be done. I mean, they know

(27:35):
the people that the hypocrites know that they're hypocrite, right,
they know they don't care We talked about this about
climate change. We talked about this in regards to the
climate change in the last week's episode. Uh, they know
they're lying. They don't care. Again, it's their own list
for power. That's fine. Maybe you could practice this a
little bit and actually exercise the power that you have. Um.
So it's not constantly that line from uh the good Place,

(27:58):
where the good Place people are like, well, we can't
just do something, Michael, we're the good guys. But well, no,
you can't just do something. Um. That's a really good quote.
It's a good line about a lot of things. Um.
But like they can withhold unanimous consent um, which is
like there are a lot of like boring things that
the Senate has in place that they can utilize to

(28:20):
slow it down to a halt. Um and like grind
the gears. One of the things that is technically good
about our system, even though it's actually not good because
its stalls so much. It's very slow. We have a
very slow system in place. By design, things happen very slowly. Um.
So it's actually kind of easy to slow things down. Um.

(28:42):
You can hold up the federal budget and shut down
the government. You can. But like what else is there
to do a lot of like a lot of the
frustrations people Joe Biden is not going to say that
we're going to pack the court, We're gonna do this,
We're gonna do this, and so on, like all the
things that one would want him to do if you
were elected down the line. Some Democrats in office are

(29:05):
saying that we should do that, and that's good to
keep saying, but also that doesn't do anything. Now, it
doesn't stop the actual nomination from happening. Uh, it's about
forty fifty days until the election. I don't know how
any days it is until the election. It's very few days. Um.
So this is gonna have to be a really a
real rush job for the Republicans to to pull off. Um.

(29:25):
And like the advice that we see these days seems
to be like call Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney isn't going
to be convinced by anyone by a phone call or
a letter. And so this, this idea that Republicans are
going to change their mind and we're gonna get the
votes is ludicrous. Um. And what is all like similarly
ludicrous but maybe slightly less Throuocrius, is that the Democrats

(29:48):
are actually gonna do something to stop it. Um. There
are small things they can do. They just evoked some
like it's like a two hour rule for committees, where
like they can't uh, like, you can't stop proceedings to
go have a committee meeting if it exceeds a certain
amount of times. It's like very boring things that the
Senate can do to slow things down that they're going

(30:08):
to try to do. Uh. Pelosi was asked recently about
what we could possibly do about it, and her response, like,
the first part was get out and vote, which is
very frustrating to here. But the next part is that
she's got he's got arrows in the quiver that she's
not going to reveal yet. I've got not a whole
lot of confidence in the power of those arrows and
that quick um. And what ultimately, Robert you alluded to

(30:32):
is that it's going to take direct action from people
to stop this from happening. Because one of the other
things that you can do to stop this, aside from
like the procedural boring ship, is to literally stop people
from being able to go into that building and do
these things. Um. And one of the things that I
think that Um, it's going to take It's not just

(30:55):
the people that need to do that, it's actual senators
need to lead these protests. Like, and that's something we
don't really see. There was a sit in I think
about gun control a few years ago, and that was
like the last time that like an elected official was
like a part of a protest. And I don't mean
like we're I'm marching in the march. I got the
photo Black Lives Matter, Yes, exactly. That's the thing that

(31:17):
is necessary really to stop this is direct action, and
not just direct action, but direct action from people in
power who can lead this kind of Uh, we should
be encouraging our senators to do so. So that's right.
So that's the other thing that I wanted to sort
of get at is that, Um, everyone's like, oh, we're

(31:38):
gonna protest Mitch McConnell's house, We're gonna protest this place.
We're gonna do that. Um. And that's like, that's some
good energy. That's good energy for what is being faced
right now. But Mitch McConnell will not be convinced no
matter how many people are on his front lawn. He
does not care. He does not care. Lindsey Graham is
not going to be convinced by being shouted at or

(32:00):
like getting a bunch of phone calls. There's the photo
of him during Kavanaugh of a woman shouting at him
from behind. He's like smiling, adjusting his tie. It's a meme.
It's it's very frustrating to sy um, but like they
don't care. Um. People that do care that can be
pushed around, kind of our Democrats. Democrats love being pushed around.
It's how they do, it's what they do. And so

(32:23):
what needs to happen I would say is that this
energy that is like we're gonna protest this person. Energy,
protest the Democratic Party to do the things that need
to be done. Push them to do what needs to
be done. That's where I think a lot of this
energy is going to be the most useful. If you
can convince actual Democrats in power who are senators, to

(32:44):
not just be like, well, if we can invoke this rule,
then maybe they'll slow down. No, convince them, Convince them
to block the doors, convince them. Susan Collins and the
Chuck Grassleys, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't
say they're the type of Democrats that I'm referring to.
I mean, but I mean those are the people like

(33:07):
Susan Collins is like, Okay, well I'm not going to
vote for this or whoever. Like we've got, like the
vote count is already happening. I'm talking about maybe some
people on the younger side, uh, who have a lot
of passion still for for what they're doing, um, pushing
them two lead and participate in uh this kind of

(33:30):
action that is necessary. And I don't think they're not
going to You're I'm not sure if you're joking. She
is a Republican and said that she wouldn't feel comfortable. Right,
we've already got like okay, the vote, the vote stuff.
I mean just that, but I do think of her
Rison when that might be more susceptible than a Lindsay Graham. Right,
but like but again it's like not focusing on the

(33:51):
vote aspect, like who's got the vote, He's got this vote.
There's a lot of like, well, is Romney gonna do it?
Maybe Rubio will say like whatever, Uh, let's not focus
on getting the vote down right now, focus on like
stopping it from happening. Yeah, stopping Oh I hear you. Yeah,
I'm not telling you stop it. I'm just saying, like
every general generally, that should be the goal. Um, and

(34:14):
that's where this energy should go. Um. I I would
say that that's what I like in just in reading like,
here's what democrats say they're they're gonna do, Here's what
are possible possibilities. I don't know, I'm sorry, I've I've
like rambled on a lot about like about this that
when you urge people to disrupt the institutions of government

(34:37):
for political that's what it's going to take at this point.
I agree with Republicans don't care. They don't care another
lifetime appointments, say, I mean he's had what two plus? Yeah,
and Republicans. Republicans are power hungry hypocrites who will do
it stop at nothing to continue what they've been continuing.

(34:57):
And Democrats love getting pushed around, So maybe we can
push them around to actually be uh, do a little
bit of what the current powerful party is doing. Cody.
So you're saying, don't be shocked that politicians do stuff
for political gain part one and to burn it down.

(35:17):
That's about it. That's a good um and encouraged, encouraged
the you know and vote, the the the and vote
and vote and vote, but encourage, encourage, use, use a
lot of your like Lyndsey Graham, how dare you energy
on the people who can actually do something about it? Um?
Which also is the people uh not are like the officials.

(35:39):
So it's hard to find um positive hopeful paths that
are short of just doing something drastic like you're suggesting
in what you're saying. I want to say, yes, call
your senators. I want to give people tangible things that
they can do. But I don't believe in petitions working. Yeah.
I believe in the fact that it's feels good to

(36:03):
put even the fact that there's a long list of
people that say no to this and yes to this,
and we sign and put our stamp on it. But
it's also very it's sentivizing of actually doing something tangible.
It's been years of this ship. Um, it's weeks before

(36:24):
the election. Maybe like petitions and and calling uh Lindsey
Graham and leaving him a message isn't actually what's gonna
do it? Yeah? Um, I think people are coming around
to that this sort of radicalization like you were talking about,
Katie with like people are grieving in this text chain.
But then eventually they're like, yeah, it kind of sucks
that this didn't happen. Wow, our system kind of sucks. Um.

(36:46):
My good friend of mine whose dad has been a
lifelong Republican, like like very like Republican, uh conservative guy,
um is now sending again, maybe not the most effective thing,
but very I think hopeful sending letters uh to his
elected officials complaining about how they're like bowing to fascists

(37:06):
and Jim Jordan's like all this kind of stuff, and
it's like and like knowing that person, Um, that's wild
that they've gotten to that point. Yeah. Um, I'll say this.
I'm gonna I don't know if this this is even
in the realm of possibility, but one thing that I've
seen floated around that people talk about is, you know,

(37:27):
expanding the Supreme Court or changing going in and doing
something to change term limits, expanding the number of justices
on the Supreme Court. Curious to hear what your guys
thoughts on on those, Um, whether it's realistic, whether you
think that helps oh, I mean all all for these
kinds of moves. I think it's Yeah, it's frustrating to

(37:50):
see a lot of people like like an Ed Markey
or Elizabeth Warren calling for those kinds of things, and
then Biden on the other side is like frustrated them
saying it's like we're not going to do that, and
like earlier to like last night, he like bragged about
beating the socialist um, which is kind of frustrating to
see that you can't say that and also say you

(38:10):
have the most progressive platform ever those are you can't
brag about it after saying it's very frustrating. I'm not
going to get into that, but anyway, but anyway, Uh,
those kinds of moves like for sure, um, say that
you're gonna do those things and like fire people up
for those things. But again, what now, Like this is
all stuff later. This is all stuff to say, like

(38:32):
if you get the Senate, if we get the presidency,
we're gonna do this and this and this and this.
Great say that say that you're gonna do those things
and actually like make it seem like you're going to
commit to those things instead of this weird like uh
conflict thing going on. But that's for later. The important
things are like what to do now to stop it
from happening? On a personal level. That does feel like

(38:54):
something that me that our listeners, that anybody can can
start adopting into their their way of talking about this
on a level. That's something that we can do to
move the needle continuously towards achieving these things talk about
that normalize these ideas, put them out there, because when

(39:17):
they gain popularity, then they start to hold sway over
politicians actually doing something right. Yeah, that isn't a great
feeling right now, Like it's not comforting, but it is
something that we can work towards. It's it's something. Yeah,
it's like there, you know, it is one of it's
one of the things. It's one of the parts of it. Um. Again,

(39:37):
I keep coming back to this just because it's exactly
what you're talking about, like people coming around to like
vow the Supreme Court's kind of flawed system. Wow, electoral
college kind of sucks. Like all these things have been
happening that seem in direct conflict with the idea of
democracy and that has radicalized people. Um and in the

(39:59):
same way of like, well maybe we should do this
and think about doing this down the line, think about
doing this down the line and uh, convincing the party
two not only say them, but like try to convince
people of itum to mean them like I I I
come back a lot to like Biden saying like health
care is a human right while at the same time
like not working to guarantee health care to every human

(40:22):
being in the country, um, which means it's not really
a human right in your eyes. Like if you think
voting is a human right, you're not gonna be like
I think, should you should have a public option to
pay for your vote? Like, well, no, you make sure
everybody gets to vote, and that's what your plan is.
But um, in that kind of way, just sort of
pushing people to like, well say it, but also convince
people of it because if you if you work to

(40:43):
convince people of it, then they will. That's part of leadership.
Leadership is convincing people that good things are good and possible.
We have to take another quick break. Cool, then we're
gonna come back and talk about more things that are
not this but related to this. Fill up on candy

(41:08):
together everything, and we are back. Cool. Cool cool. We've
talked about Ruth Bader Ginsburg, We've talked about what happens next,
what we do next. Um, we haven't talked about Trump's

(41:33):
potential picks. It's a very big deal what this means.
It's a very big deal how many picks people that
Trump has has appointed, not just to the Supreme Court,
but just to the benches in general. So I'm gonna
start off this section with a little quote from a
Vox article. In less than four years as president, Trump

(41:55):
has appointed two hundred and one lawyers to lifetime appointments
on the federal bench, including fifty three too powerful seats
on the United States Courts of a bill. By contrast,
President Obama appointed only fifty five appellate judges during his
eight years as president. One reason for this disparity is
that Senate Republicans, led by Mitch maccaudell, imposed in near
total blockade on appeals court confirmations during Obama's final two

(42:17):
years in the White House. That meant Trump has effectively
been able to fill all the appeals court vacancies that
arose during his presidency, plus nearly all the vacancies that
should have been filled in Obama's last two years in office.
I guess that could have gone in the last section. Um,
but it is um great, daunting, great. I'll go with
great to see that kind of um laid out all

(42:41):
in front of us like that terrifying. And it's just
this is another quote from a different Fox article written
by Ian Millheiser. In an age of legislative dysfunction, whoever
controls the courts controls the country. In the past decade
or so or more percie, since Republicans took over the

(43:01):
House in two thousand eleven, Congress has been barely functional.
You can count on one hand, and possibly on just
two on a few fingers, the major legislation that has enacted. Judges,
by contrast, have become the most consequential policymakers in the nation.
They have gutted America's campaign finance law and dismantled much
of the Voting Rights Act. They've allowed states to deny
health coverage to millions of Americans. They've held that religion

(43:24):
can be wielded as a sword to cut away the
rights of others. They've drastically watered down the federal ban
on sexual harassment, and that barely scratches the surface. So
I say all this just to further underscore how important
the role the court that judges UM hold in our
country right now now more than ever, probably because our Senate,

(43:47):
our Congress sucks. Yeah, nobody likes Congress, I mean, and
that's what that's how this stuff happens and crumbles, and
you deteriorate faith in institutions and by actually doing that, um,
and you get to a point where there's political gridlock
and it seems like nothing can get done, and so

(44:09):
people gravitate towards like a strongman type who says he's
going to solve all the background of fascism with you.
I mean, yeah, it's one of those that always um
and all things in there. But like, I mean, that's
what like if you know Republicans stopping all stopping X
and Y and and all this stuff while also now

(44:31):
getting these judges and you stop progress, and then you
have Trump lifting them up while claiming like Congress doesn't
get anything done and I'll do it. But he's the
he's of the party that stopped things from being done. Um.
It's just a it's a big power con um and
they've been doing it for a long time. So let's
talk about who this pointee might be. We don't really

(44:54):
know yet. Um. Obviously, Trump floated a list a couple
of weeks of that included Tom Cotton and Ted Cruz.
I don't actually think that they are in contention here
were I'm pretty sure at this point that it's going
to be a woman, he said. He said he's going
to pick a woman. I say, we're pretty sure because

(45:16):
I don't know. Um, the summary of it all is
he has several women on his shortlist and they're all
terrible and an insult to the legacy of Ruth Vader
Ginsburg and it's depressing. The top person on his shortlist

(45:36):
was also mentioned when I like Beer was appointed. Amy
Coney Barrett would be terrifying and horrible. Yeah, that's who
they That's who they're probably gonna push the most because
they think, well, aside from like what she believes and
would help them do. Uh, they know that she would
be the one that makes the left angry or it

(45:59):
triggers the left them post political choice. Yeah, they're they're
half of Uh. Their whole approach to politics is owning
the Libs. And that's the one that would do with
the most. And so they can laugh because they're cruel.
She's also the youngest, she's which should be the youngest
Supreme Court justice. Yeah, but well yeah, I mean fake.

(46:23):
It's yeah, the fake woke thing is very funny. Um, because, yeah,
let's get a woman in there who will not defend
women's rights. I think we all know that just because
someone's a woman doesn't mean that they're good. I hope. So. Um, yeah,
it's it's pretty terrifying, the whole thing she's quoted. She's

(46:44):
quoted to say the fundamental element that the woman has
a right to choose abortion will probably stand. She added,
The controversy right now is about funding. It's a question
of whether abortions will be publicly or privately funded. Yeah,
I'm sure that's it. I'm sure that's the only thing. Yeah.
She also led a three woman panel of judges that

(47:04):
said Purdue University may have discriminate against a male student
accused of sexual assault when he was suspended for a year,
a punishment that yeah, she so, she she she sided
with him because he he was suspended for a year,
which made him ineligible from getting a spot in the navy. Ah,
And she said is plausible that university officials chose to

(47:25):
believe Jane because she is a woman, and to believe
John because he is a man, and disbelieve John because
he's a man trader. She's a goddamn trader. I know.
She's terrifying. Um uh you know, I mean the way
they talk about I mean, yeah, they've they want to
overturn Roe v. Way. That's what they want to do. Um,

(47:47):
that is their plan. They want to overturn the separation
of church and state. Yeah. Well, yeah, there it is. Yeah,
feels like we're kind of running out of steam about talking.
I'm very that. Well, it's yeah, it's one of those
things where it's like here's a list of all the
people and you don't even have to go through the
list to be like, well, it's not good. Um, and

(48:10):
no one has been officially picked yet and again it's
like it's not even right, and like it's again it's like,
well it's not. The important thing is just to stop
the nomination process. And it doesn't really even matter who
it is that he puts forward. We know what they're
going to stand for, we know that what they're going

(48:31):
to try it to do. Not that I believe that
Trump cares about these things, but he knows that's how
he gets elected. And like, I mean even and Ted
Cruz has already given up some of the game too,
and talking about how like we need them because you know,
if the contested election, we're gonna need a full full
court to decide that. Trump had a quote UM that

(48:51):
I'm going to pull up to his rally about, UM,
we're gonna have a victory on November three, the likes
of which you've never seen. Now, we're counting on the
federal court system to make it so that we can
actually have an evening where we know who wins, not
where the votes are going to be counted a week
later or two weeks later, or and so on. So
it's very clear, like that's that's it's all part of it.

(49:12):
It's all part of their goal. Um. And it would
be great if the opposition party opposed and resisted effectively. UM.
I hope they don't do a couple of photo ops
and how dare users and then let it happen anyway,

(49:36):
that point about the election night, Thank you for bringing
that up. I I was thinking about that earlier is
one of the most terrifying about it because, as we
already know, it's terrifying in so many ways because it's
a reminder of what a ship show it is going
to be. UM, the fight of election night, when we
know that so many of these votes are going to

(49:58):
be trickling in that their mail and ballots, we know
that the election will be impossible to call on election
night at this point, um most likely unless everybody's already
sent their ballots in. Well, you're right. That's the other
like in talking about the election. It's the scary part,
the very frustrating thing is that it's going to be

(50:19):
a ship show no matter what. The only scenario where
it's not a complete ship show is if Joe Biden
wins by a landslide. If it's clearly an overwell overwhelming landslide. Uh,
then it's going to be what you're talking about. By
what you're talking about, you mean sweet, right, Yeah, it's
gonna be sweet cool. I just wanted to make sure

(50:42):
you can't wait. It'll be the worst night of the
worst year ever. Oh that two months two months later,
who knows? I mean, guys, let's end this on a
different kind of a vibe. Note, tell me something good,

(51:05):
damn something good? Uh, you know, I my fingers almost healed.
That's really good. That actually is really good news from
when that fascist broke it with a baton and I
have real fun new armored gloves coming in the mail
that I'm excited about. Nse plates very cool like in rust. Yes, yes, Cody,

(51:35):
that's that's That's what I have to do for my
life now. I'm also I'm also in the process of
armoring my raincoat. Um, so you're prepared for everything. Yeah,
I mean the neat thing about life in is that
a sizeable chunk of the things that I thought, like,

(51:56):
wouldn't that be neat when I was a kid reading
cyberpump novels, like a lot of that's happened? Um, it
just turns out that I actually hate it. Yeah. Yeah,
we've been We've been conditioning, you know, by films for
decades and decades to not only expect a dystopia, but
to kind of embrace a dystopia. But it turns out

(52:18):
dystopia suck their dystopic Um, Cody, you share something good.
Robert's fingers getting a lot better. That's amazing. I love
to hear it. Katie. What's something good that happened to
you or is happening? It's something good that's happened or
is happening? Um, you think I would have prepared an

(52:39):
answer since I started this line of questioning, Uh, lots
of good things are happening every day. No, I think
I've convinced my mom to come. We went to an
airbnb for my mom to come stay in and be
near me for a little bit. Um. That's nice. I
have a little bit of reservations about it because she's

(53:00):
in a pretty COVID free area. Um, but we'll just
hang out inside and get tested if she does that.
And you know, that's a really nice and comforting thought
to me right now that I'm looking forward to very much.
At the very least, it's a comforting thought. Yeah, that's
nice too, and it's something to work towards. It is
kind of like how how adjusting to how you have

(53:23):
a family during this time? And it's you know, I
normally wouldn't do that, but I think maybe that's the
best way to sneak in some Collie time. And I
need it. I need my mom. You know, we all
we know, we all need our moms. Whoever your mom
maybe whatever form your mom takes. Oh, I actually so
uh this I'll keep Uh you've got great news. Well,

(53:48):
I've got nice news. I guess. Um, Well, it's it's
less news it's just like, oh, that's a little hopeful.
I got a message today on Twitter from somebody who
talked about how, uh they were raised in the same
sort of indoctrination as Ben Shapiro or Ted Cruz and
their personal distaste for like Trump as a person led me,

(54:09):
led him to watching videos and consuming a lot of
these things and like the news show that we do,
and he's like radicalized. I guess now, I thought you
were going to share. But that's great. No, I mean,
I I mean personal news. I I don't. I try

(54:29):
to not do personal news on online that much. Um,
So I think you're alluding to the actual, really good news.
It was just that I'm an uncle now and the
baby is adorable. Congratulations. Yeah, it's he's got. He's got.
He's a lucky child who's going to have some wonderful
parents to be raised by. Which of my names is

(54:53):
your brother giving to the baby? The Reverend. The Reverend
is his name, the Reverend, Reverend, the Reverend Johnston. His
first name is the his middle name is Reverend. I
look forward to when he's in the d m V
and they call Reverend Comma v. Sophie. I think I

(55:13):
know your news. You're getting a new present tomorrow. Oh,
I was going to say that. My Republican father said
he will not be voting for Donald Trump. That's much better.
I've been working on that for you know since uh,
you know years, Yeah, every four years, every day. Yeah,

(55:33):
and uh he said, I mean he's not going to
vote for him, And that means a lot to me.
I think your news and Cody's message are a really
great way to wrap this up. And yes, I do
get him know tomorrow. Yes she's also getting herself tomorrow.
But our conversations matter on on a personal level. Your

(55:56):
actions matter. They have trickling out effects. People aren't lost people.
If you think they're lost, they're not. You know, I'm
hoping that we've reached enough people, but we clearly are
reaching people, all of us. You guys, the listeners, you know, um,
and I'm proud of you. It's fucking hard, and I

(56:20):
don't know when it's going to get better, but we'll
get through it together. And it doesn't get better. Keep
doing it or not anyway, done being a SAP. We're
going to play us out now. Um. You can follow
Katie on Twitter and Instagram. Edit Katie, still you can
follow Cody on Twitter, Instagram, and dctor Mr Cody. You

(56:40):
can follow Robert on Twitter and I Right Okay, You
can follow us where your pod We have a Tea Everything, Everything,
I Tried, Worst Yer Ever, The production of I Heart Radio.

(57:01):
For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the I
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