November 10, 2025 • 56 mins
Strange things have been happening in Derry, for a long time it seems! And has all that garbage in the sewers never caused a problem before? Jason and Rosie are recapping IT: Welcome To Derry “Now You See It”, then they bring in the Scream Queens, Carmen and Joelle for a discussion and analysis.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Worrying.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contains spoilers for it. Welcome to Darry Episode three,
You warn't.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
My name is Jason Gettepsion and I'm Mersday Nike, and
welcome back to x ray Vision of the podcast where
we dive. Do you be to your favorite shows, movies,
comics of pop culture? Coming to you from my heart.
We'll bring you three episodes a week las days.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
In today's episode, we are going back to Darry, Maine
and we are going to recap the episode before we
introduce the scream, Queen's comment and Joel to talk about
this law expanding episode.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Is it better? Is it worse?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Is it keeping up the consistency of the show. We
will be talking about it, but first let's recap.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to Darry Episode three. We open in the past
sometime there's a carnival on the outskirts of Darry, a
Barker carnival. Barker steers a young boy named Francis towards
a certain tent he says is filled with terrors and
it's like normal carnival stuff in there Siamese twins, you
(01:21):
know that kind of thing with a gross connecting flap.
He goes into a darker room of the tent and
he gets like really scared by a man with one eye.
He flees the tent. His dad is like, you're a
sissy because you're scared, but I bought you a sling
shot anyway. It's a really cool slingshot with like a
rubber one of those like thick rubber band.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Looks like you could really shoot some stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Right, like a like a tie off for a heroin
shot type thickness shot medical. A young girl clown in
the classic Pennywise look is watching from nearby, and one wonders,
is this penny Wise or is this where penny Wise.
I think this is where penny Wise got the idea.
(02:06):
This isn't Pennywise exactly. Yeah, And the dad and the son, Francis,
they leave. They're in their little drop top ford going
home and the car breaks down because it overheats. So
Dad's like, go over there to that roadside stand and
buy me some water for the car. So they go
(02:29):
over there and it's a Native run stand. The clerk
is a young girl about the same age as Francis,
and but the boy doesn't have enough money. The dad
didn't give enough money. He gave him like four cents
and it's like a nickel.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah, I'm like, you got money?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, what's going on? So the kid has to barter
his slingshot to get it, and but he does get it,
and the car is running again, and the dad gets
pissed when he knows slingshot's missic. Soon enough, Francis and
these native kids are great friends. And it seems like
him and the girl there's his name is Rose, there's
like a little little something. It's a little summer, summer
(03:10):
of love for these zoo But so they running around
in the woods. One day, Francis runs into this certain
cops of trees. It's like it's a perfect opening into
this darker part of the woods and Rose is like, no, no, no, no,
no no no, which, by the way, you should have
told him, by the way we're gonna play out here,
don't go in there.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But now it's like a gate right there.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, don't go in that very inviting. Don't go in.
He goes in. It immediately turns spooky. The one eyed
guy is there stalking him from behind trees. He turns
into a monster that is chasing him, and the girl
manages to like plink the guy in the face with
the slingshot and then leads Francis to safety. Then we
(03:56):
go to the credits, which Joelle has a wonderful theory
that the credits song is sung from the perspective of Pennywise.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Love that, and we.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Open on Juniper Hill, the state run sanitarium where Lily
has been. It's now I guess it's been like a
couple of weeks, like two weeks or something, or a
week and Lily, Lily's Mom's coming to pick her up,
and the doctor tells Lily's mom like, we've been heavily, heavily,
heavily drugging her, and she seems to be getting better. Also,
(04:27):
she seems to have struck up a very close relationship
with a member of the staff who I will refer
to by her government named Madeline Stowe, the actor, because
we don't really have her name in this episode. So
it's back the beautiful, the gorgeous Madeline Stowe, big star
in the eighties, late eighties and nineties. And it's very
(04:51):
clear I think that Madeline Stowe has been through some
Pennywise battles herself exactly right, definitely, and because she's like yo,
I believe you, Lily, I believe you, no question, I
believe it. And then she gives her like a reference
to the Losers Club. The book version of the Loser's
(05:13):
Club gives Lily a little friendship charm bracelet, which is
a big thing in the book. We go to jail.
The chief of police goes to jail visits Hank Hatchet.
Hank in there. It's like he want a cigarette, and
then of course it's like not a friendly visit. The
chief immediately is like, hey, you know what they do
(05:34):
to child murders in prison, Well, you better confess because
maybe we'll like what is It's like it's all stick
and no carrot, Like, what is what's the upside to confessing?
Speaker 5 (05:46):
They're just saying you're gonna get killed if you don't confess.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It's very you're getting killed anyway. Yeah, I mean it's
killed anyway, Like there's nothing. Denny kind of reveals that
they allegedly found a sick gret packet.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Like Hank, you know, smokes at the cinema at the
crime scene.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Is like, yeah, he's the projectionist. Everybody's smiles there all
the time. They street, they just smoke all the time
back then.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Come on, Ronnie is back at school getting bullied by
Patty and the mean girls. Will is feeling bad for her,
and we'll find out that Will actually has a has
a big old crush on her. Lily meanwhile, I was
trying to make amends with Ronnie, but of course Ronnie
just want to hear it, and Lily's like, listen, I'll
do anything to clear your dad's name. I came up
(06:31):
with an idea, what about this. We take a picture
of the shit when it's happening, like the demon shit,
the octopus in the grocery store, or the baby with
the little wings like whatever from it takes. We take
a picture. But the problem is where do we get
the pictures developed? And Ronnie is like, oh, I just
(06:53):
talked to this kid who like knows a lot about chemistry,
So I got an idea.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Also, I yes, I do just want to quickly say,
nice to see kids having a good plan in a
horror movie, because.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
This is the kind of thing where when you're watching it,
you gotta do that.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
You're like, you gotta try it, like even if you're
even if an adult is going to be like you
fake these or they don't you gotta do it?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Like this is the kind of stuff that.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
You yell at the screen when you're watching a horror movie,
like take a picture, take off the guy's mask when
you knock him over.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
So I'm proud of them for this plan, even this
is more in danger.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Right when this happened, I'm like, oh, we're going this
is the most in the footsteps of it, both the book,
the original miniseries, and the movies. This is this whole episode.
It's starting with this where the kids begin to fight back.
We go to the base. The colonel briefs the General
(07:48):
on the car find and they're like, hey, it was
a good, good find, but we didn't. They're looking for
something and whatever it is, it's not in the car.
The car just has skeletons and bullet holes and it's
part of gang war that happened back in the day.
And the General is like, yeah, that's not it. Whatever
they're looking for, it came from three hundred years earlier.
(08:10):
So the general. You're getting the picture that the general
knows a lot about the thing they're looking for, and
the question is how so the general is on a
clock for some reason. He's like we're running at a time.
So this leads me to believe that the General knows
about the twenty cycle, the penny Wise cycle, but also
(08:31):
that the cycle and the Cuban missile crisis are kind
of like there's a there's a dual clock here, because
I guess the here's my theory. The General is worried
that Pennywise will disappear at the end of the cycle
and they will miss their window to stop the Cubans
and the Soviets from putting the missiles in or from
them deploying the penny Wise weapon against the Soviet. So
(08:58):
then the General is like goes into his top drawer.
He pulls out of Philly's blunt cigar box. Listen, yeah,
I mean listen for for a person like me. When
I see that Phillies cigar box, I'm thinking one thing,
who's rolling up the stuff? Who's got it?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I was like, oh, time to relax, God.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Break it up.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Honestly, they could all deal with with a little stuffy,
could use this, use last no stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So there's something important in there, but he doesn't open
it at that time. Then we go to uh the
Airman tent where we see hallerin and the buddy's talking,
talking tall tales. The airmen still are not sure what
to make of of Dick Hallarin's tall tales, but they
do know he has pulling because it's raining and they're
in this really shitty almost like a cargo.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's a really bad last tent.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's bad. They're like, well, use your juice to like
fix the roof in this tent. As we're gonna rained on,
let's take a quick break and let's continue with the
recap wake up box and we're back. Okay, So we're
(10:27):
still on base, Major handling Captain Russo they're walking over
to their helicopter to do some sort of overflight of
the town training mission whatever it is, whatever it was
gonna be it It changes when the colonel comes over
bringing Hallarin and is like, you two are going to
take this guy up in the air wherever. He says,
(10:47):
fly to, you fly to, and Hallarin is clutching that
Phillies blunt box and you're wondering, like, are they just
gonna hot box.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
It's a big helicopter with just the three of them,
and I'm like, they could really.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Get away with it, dude. This is pre camera age.
They could be smoking out in there.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
So they go up and we see that the slingshot
is in the box and Hallarn is telling them every
which way to go. Turn east, he says, and then
we flash back again. Frances and the girl have made
it out of the woods and she tells him that
that thing is it stays in there, it doesn't come out,
but as long as you don't go in there, you're fine.
(11:27):
And she is like, listen, I'll tell you everything I
know about it, but it's a secret, and just don't
tell anybody else. And then we flash forward. We realize
that the girl Rose is now Rose, the owner of
the antique store in town, and roses in the middle
of a local a meeting of the local native community.
They're all upset that the military is digging around in
(11:49):
their sacred areas and they're like and they're coming at
you know, they're pitching ideas. They're like, okay, well we
can we already did a cease and desist, but let's
see at least if they can. You know, there's different
ideas being thrown around, like can we get at least
some money, like so we can fix up the community,
Like if they're going to be doing this, they should
at least be paying like some sort of rent or
at lease or something. The young man from the observation
(12:12):
party from earlier, who is spying on the military comes
over to Rose Anti Rose, they call her, and it
is like, listen, we got to do something. What that
is we don't know, but roses like no, no, no, no, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
So you know she actually does cool for a season
to desist after this, and that's how the general remembers that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, they but I think they already. I think they
already put the paper. I think they already did.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
They already put it in.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But she is like in of the season right, she's
very much in support of this season desist, but she's
not the The young man is like, we got to
do something else, like he wants to. There's some other
thing that he has in mind that clearly they've talked
about that we don't know what it is. And Rose
is like, no, we're not going to do that. Whatever
that is, we're not going to do that yet. Because
she doesn't necessarily want to stop them, she wants to
(12:59):
know what they're looking for, so she needs to find
that information first before she decides, like what path they're
gonna choose. Meanwhile, up in the air, Hallarin feeling the
penny vibes Anywise vibes, which I call Penny vibes, and
he's like having a fit. You know, Handling is looking
back there, Russell's looking back there. They're like Jesus, great,
(13:20):
what the fuck's going on? And you know they calling in.
They're like, I don't know. Like Halarin's like flipping out,
and then.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
He's having a wine shots like they should have given
him a bit I feel like they should have given
these two guys.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
A bit more some Yeah, I completely agree, give him
something like.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Could have helped you turn this into like a disaster situation. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But they're like, but whoever is on the radios is
like no, no, no, like whatever happens on the road. Hallarin
gets up. He's really feeling the penny vibes and boom,
he's down in that sewer. Oh, he's down there, and
he sees like an old wagon like from the carnival
advertising Pennywise the Clown, and it pops open it into
his stage. Here's a voice that's like he asks like
(14:03):
who are you? And he has like a vision of
war and it looks like World War One and the
trenches and explosions, and then and then he sees the
kids who have been captured and put in the sewer,
all floating up into the air with all their stuff
and all their like toys and their bikes and all
that kind of shit. And then he sees his Grandma's
(14:24):
one of these people floating around in there, and she
tells him get out of here now, Dicky. And meanwhile,
in real life in the helicopter, Dick is like pulling
the release on the back hatch of the helicopter and
is trying to escape. He thinks in his mind escape
the sewer, but in real life trying to jump out
(14:44):
of the helicopter and annyways trying to kill him, absolutely
trying to kill him. So Handlan like manages to grab
him and is like keeps him in the helicopter. Later,
Handlan is like telling the general all the shit, like,
oh my god, like he tried to jump out and
it was fucking insane. I had to grab his guy,
what like what's going on over there? And Dick is
in the General's office shaken, telling him like, hey, here's
(15:08):
all the ship I saw. And he's like, I'm worried
about this thing because this that thing shouldn't have known
that we were there, like I wasn't. I wasn't actually
in the area, like I was high above it. So
I don't know. This is very concerning, like are we
going to unleash whatever this thing is? And the general
doesn't give a shit. We go to the diner, local diner,
(15:31):
Will and Rich Will Handlan and his little pencil buddy
Rich are hanging out talking about them titties. They love titties.
Kids in this town love tits.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Rich just loves any crush like he's crush on the
diner lady he's got. I think he's kind of got
a crush on Well, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I like, I am getting other vibes.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Equal opportunities.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I feel like he talks about the groups so much,
so maybe people I don't realize he doesn't love it.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
That's kind of where I'm feeling because but maybe that's
a subtext that I'm bringing to it. Anyway, Rich loves
titties so much. You're talking about him, but he's also
like it. He's like, I love titties, but also like
Marge's face is another thing that I love, and there's
(16:22):
a knock on the window outside. Ronnie and Lily are
there and they're like, Will, what do you know about
film developing? He's like, I know, film developing. What do
you mean? He's like, well, listen, we need some film
developed and we'll tell you why eventually. Okay. Meanwhile, Rich
then accuses Will of liking Ronnie, which kind of comes
(16:43):
out of nowhere, but you get it, and we buy.
Yeah antique store, the general comes in and has like
got anything for a nicol to rose, and holy shit,
you realize he is Franks the young boy. Did you
see this coming?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Because I did?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Generated did oh at fust maybe Francis was gonna become Pennywise.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I didn't know he had that little hat on.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
I wasn't sure what was going on.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You know, Yeah, me neither.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
So yeah, no, I didn't see that coming.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Also, I do want to say, ari willam modge having
a crush on like the nudy girl with glosses and
a bad hack, very gay, just saying, just saying.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I just you know everything about rich just I wonder anyway,
so even the way she's like riding the bike and
running for petty like anyway, Yeah, that's we're fast worded.
So the General comes in and is like, oh, it's
so good to see you. And just so you know,
(17:40):
like I didn't actually remember you until kind of today,
and a bunch of things have been going, like I'm
working on stuff, and it's like the memories came back
and and and and I realized like we were kind
of boyfriend girlfriend for a summer, Like we had a
thing and I didn't remember it until I got your
cammunity season desist letter that had your name on it
(18:02):
that said stop digging around. And just so you know,
we're digging around for the water supply.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Yeah, famous thing the community.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We want to Yeah, it's like the base needs were
water and uh, we're looking for a way to you know,
get the reroot some of the local streams into the
into the basest.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Trustworthy American government.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And she's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then sensing
her suspicion, and I gotta say, this is a good
one from Francis. I.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
This is a really good one because it also it
also gives her what she is looking for, So I
think we can see this happening.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
This is a good one. He goes, you know, you
don't have to. Maybe you could tell us, you know,
areas to stay away from, respectful you see of your
of your community and their sacred areas, and you could
just you know, be like, yeah that you could go
over there and dig grin over there, but like this
one don't and you could trust me. We go to
(19:06):
a flashback Francis his dad is getting redeployed. So Francis
is telling Rose as they hang out very boyfriend girlfriend
like near a stream, that he's gonna have to move soon.
And Rose is like, well, in that case, here, I'm
gonna give you this back. Here's your slingshot black and
he and Francis m is clearly very much crushing on Roses, like,
(19:31):
make me a promise that you'll never forget about me,
never forget about the summer that we had in all
the warm times and the demon that you saved me
from and all of that stuff. And Rose is like, well, listen,
you do. Something you need to know about this town
is when you leave here, you kind of forget almost immediately,
(19:51):
like things will just become very foggy and you're gonna
forget about me. And I'm sorry to hear that, but
that's what's gonna happen. We go to the present, Lily,
Ronnie take Will and Rich to the boys hang out
the disappeared boys hang out, which Rich is like, holy shit,
like what and they tell them about the mission. We're
(20:11):
seeing demons, ghosts and we need to take a picture
of them and then get the picture develops so we
can prove to everybody that Lily's not crazy when she
tells the truth, and that my dad is innocent of
the crimes of killing numerous kids. Rich is immediately like, oh,
that's an evil spirit. What the other guy? Yeah, yeah,
(20:33):
my t O was big in the Santa Ria scene
in Cuba, and like knows all about like the candles,
Like you get the ceremonial candles, you set it up
at a graveyard, you chant the thing, and then the
demon shows up and they're like, oh shit, well Rich,
you're in charge of that now.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Why this is like a tradition throughout horror movies real life.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Why are people always like, oh, it's just summon a demon.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Don't do it, don't play with don't do it, don't
go to the graveyard.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Bad idea.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I do, I will say in this episode's favor I
do think that Ronnie's dad being in prison and Lily
being you know, deemed as crazy are really really great
and goffins for why they would do this, But I
was still like yelling at the TV.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I think they actually need that stuff, right, because they do.
As we're going to talk about later when I talk
about my slight notes on slight concerns about things that
might emerge beating penny Wise kind of can't they need
other goals such as, you know, Lily being cleared and
Hank Hatchet Hank being cleared because I think there's a
(21:47):
little bit of danger to beating Pennywise.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yeah, because also as well, we can never truly beat
him because he knows, we know he's coming back, yes,
and so that is so I think you're right, it's
good to give them other goal for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Dicky Hallarin comes over to the Handling House and gets
to know everybody, and Dick is you can tell Charlotte's
not a huge fan of Derry. He can tell this
because he's reading everybody's minds. He doesn't. And we learned
that Charlotte was a school teacher. She's involved in the
(22:22):
civil rights movement or it certainly wants to be more
involved here in town. But if the major is worried
about rocking the boat and this kind of thing, Dick
backs the major up and is like, yeah, he's right
to be worried about that, Like it's a little sensitive
around here. And Charlotte is like, you fucking cowards.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, I'm gonna make this.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Meanwhile, Dick is you know, they're they're hanging out with
Will in a private moments like where's your son?
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Well, weird question, not subtle, and I'm a big fan
of the Major's response.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Why He's just kind of like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So in this, in this moment, he's like with friends, okay.
And then we go to see where they're at. They're
in the cemetery. They got the candles, they got them
all set up in the circle. Rich meanwhile is burning film.
There's only like twenty four or thirty six shots pictures.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He's just like.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
He's just like Britge very funny joke.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So Ronnie's like stop doing that, like okay and get
to work, like we got look, we got the candles.
Do the thing. So they he does the thing. Meanwhile,
Dick and the Major they're on the porch now drinking beers,
and the major is like, how do you know I
have a son. I didn't mention him. There's no pictures
of him, I guess in the house, And and Dick
is kind of like, you know, like I think on
(23:44):
the base maybe people were talking about him or something.
And the Major then goes to, okay, so what happened
up in the air. It felt like some I don't know,
like some sort of psychic shit or something. And then
the says, by the way, I think you can read minds,
(24:05):
and I think I have. And here's how I know,
because I think you were part of the attack on
me that night. I think you were not the guy
attacking me, but I think you were standing off the
side because I.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Felt he could feel the same feeling which I thought
that i'm having now.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yes, that someone is in my mind or you know,
rummaging around in there, and I felt it from that
guy that night I was attacking. I'm feeling it from
you now, So stay out of my head, buddy. And
Dick is like, listen, I will, I'm not gonna fuck
with you. And here's why. Because when you had a
gun to your head and people were beating the shit
out of you, and they were saying, like one hundred percent,
(24:42):
we're going to kill you. I sensed no fear from you,
only like analytical.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Didn't think of his family, didn't think of his why
that was.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
No fear And he was like, the kind of people
they sent me to fuck with, they have fea I
thought that was a gratified with you.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
So very clearly this is going to play a role
in whatever happens with Pennywise later because he's this is
the guy who's immune to pennyone.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I like that they built this relationship between the two
of them as well, because there's this great moment during
this conversation early on where Hamlin's kind of like, well,
you won't believe me if I tell you I can
do and then May just like nah, He's like every
where I lived because they were in I think New
Orleans before, He's like, everyone knew someone who could do that.
So I like that even though this guy is the sensible,
(25:27):
logical guy, he's also going to be a believer, which
means that when Will and the kids inevitably tell him,
he will likely be the adult ally, which is nice
and rare to have a sensible adult ally in horror movie.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
We go to the graveyard where nothing is happening, and
it turns out Rich was probably lying, like a lot,
a lot of stuff, and so sure Jed definitely like
inflating these stories, these tall tales about his te o
and all that stuff. So everybody gets mad at them,
(26:01):
and recriminations flying back and forth, and you know, it
kind of emerges that maybe the boys didn't believe any
of this. They're just hanging out because mainly because Will
has a crush on Ronnie, and so that gets thrown around.
Ronnie storms off, Lily takes the camera and follows, and
(26:21):
I was wondering, now if some of the early shots,
if there's going to be film, if there's gonna be
something on there. Rich and Will follow the girls on
their bikes, because the girls, you know, it took their bikes.
They're just like fuck this, We're leaving. They're peddling towards
the gate, but the gate is never getting closer, it's
getting farther away. And now the shit is popping off right.
(26:45):
The ground is opening up. The ghosts of the slain kid,
the disappeared kids are coming out of the ground and
saying something, and the girls are like snapping pictures like
as these ghosts are flying through the ears, it gets
very like Chase for the Infinity Gauntlet at the end
of End Game, where the camera keeps getting hung up
on a brunch and then another person has everyone has
(27:05):
to grab the camera.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
The camera.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, so all these things are happening. Meanwhile, Will gets
trapped in a crypt and a scary part of the
graveyard and it's kind of the Chase goes by this crypt.
As Will is in there, the camera gets dropped on
the ground riches like pick up the camera. Will then
(27:29):
picks up the camera and is like he sensed somebody
behind him in the crypt, and he's like, I'm gonna
go back and try and really get this a good shot,
which you're screaming, no, don't do this, but he goes
in there, he snaps a picture and doesn't emerge for
a second, but then he does manages to get to
(27:49):
his friends who are standing outside the gates. They all
embrace huge moment. They go back to develop the film
at the school and when the shots come out, they
get the shot, you know, they see the ghosts of
the kids and it's this is great. And then the
last one that Will took in the crypt. Is this
very blurred out clown, very scary clown. It is Pennywise. Yeah,
(28:12):
and great moment.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
There he is and they go, what's that? Boom boom.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Let's take a quick break and when we come back,
we will be joined by the Scream Queens. Carmen, Joel
talk about.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
This episode.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And we're back. Welcome to the Scream Queens. Thank you
for joining us at Ladies. How are you I. We'd
love to get your takes on this episode, Joel, let's
start with you your thought.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I really like this one, guys, Like I text the
screen Queen's group chat that I was like, I'm glad
the show keeps getting better. Well, we'll get into the
scares and sort of where they rank. I do think
these scares not as scary as one in two. However,
I think the application of the scares and their impact
on characters remains strong enough that it keeps my interest.
(29:20):
And I also I love the goofy little blue floating
kids like it really it worked for me. I was
like this, if I wat seance in the cemetery, I
would be really moved by this. I also Corey Jefferson
is a co producer on this if you're unfamiliar with
the name. He worked on Watchman. He wrote the sixth episode,
(29:40):
which was the flashback with the Police. A depo who
is in this show playing the Major played the police
officer in there. He based that the character here in
it on his father. And I was listening to the
it Welcome to Dairy Official podcast hosted by friend of
the pod Mark Barnarden and Prince Weeks, and on it,
(30:02):
Andy Muschietti was talking about how like when they brought Cordon,
he was really responsible for really nailing the tone of
everything that's going on in the Major's house and developing
those characters. And I just think like in sci fi specifically,
when you're dealing with like racist issues, it's rare that
we get two black characters talking to each other not
(30:23):
about race issues and not sort of lamenting, and they're
both really fleshed out and like feel like real human characters.
And I was like, the scene on the porch really
for me was a sweet spot. I had a lot
of fun with this episode.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I was gonna say, Joe, could you talk a little
bit more to that, because I do feel like we're
coming out of what my my very talented friend and
cartoonist Bianca Eunice was calling for a while the Jordan
Peel industrial complex, not a critique on Jordan, but a
critique on studios trying to replicate that through basically just
doing black trauma right them these stories that were very
(30:59):
much about like, yeah, being black is horrible, but it's
also like we have to show that through violence, violence
violence against black people constantly, that there is a you know,
a limit there of how effective that can be when
it comes to making like a radical statement. This feels
like an evolution of that to telling like a historically
(31:20):
accurate story about America within like a genre space. Could
you talk a little bit about how this kind of
grows on those shows that we've had over the last
few years.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, it's been a really interesting time. We're seeing a
lot of reports on like a downswing and hiring people
of color and women behind the camera. We're seeing a
lot of studios step away from these kinds of projects
which were really pushed after the George Floyd incident as
well as the success of get Out. A lot of
(31:51):
the wrong lessons were learned from get Out. Get Out
is not an extremely violent film. It's an extremely psychological
film that really seeks to explore like the eternal headspace
of black people as they deal with racism. And so
I think for me anyway, like this is a thing,
especially as we look at like sci fi and horror.
You know, often those are used as lenses to explore
(32:14):
and critique the other. So, whether that's black culture, queer culture,
you name it, and that's a good thing. Someone I
wish I could remember who wrote someone wrote a really
good article recently about it, talking about just this subject,
and they were saying something really interesting to me, which
is like, if you want to place a movie in
(32:34):
a time or racism exists, you cannot have people of
color and not have it be impacting them. Like it's impossible. Yeah,
But at the same time, like how much of that
do we want? But I also don't want to be
a race from history. I also really respect my ancestors
and what they went through. I also know they have
lives outside of that, and so I think it's a
really hard needle to thread, to be like, we want
to address the issues as they were occurring in time,
(32:57):
but we want to make sure we have full human
beings outside of these like defined limits. So I think
what's really interesting to me is, like the Mushi Eddies
are coming. You know, they were born and raised in
Columbia under fascism. They've talked a lot about its impact
on this story. Specifically they've put you know, aditionous folks
(33:17):
and black people that I think they've really put together
a well rounded room so that we could get characters
like this, so that you could do all of it,
so that you could both critique the culture at the
time and have like these really deeply interesting characters. I
want to hear Carmen's thoughts, but we should definitely circle
back to the ideas.
Speaker 7 (33:33):
I was gonna say, yeah, I felt like this episode.
Of course, it's definitely not a scariest episode one or two,
but I did enjoy the lore expansion that we're doing here.
I really love to get to know the character Declarin
a little bit more. He is one of my favorite
characters from The Shining getting to know how his like
powers work a little bit more too. I just have
(33:55):
to say though, I do love how the series continually
keeps you on edge. You know, like when you enter
a new scene, if you can trust what you're seeing,
you know, you're like because they've established that in episode
one or two. Even though I wasn't as scared in
episode three, I was still just as on edge because
I wasn't necessarily trusting everything that I was seeing right away.
(34:17):
And I think they do a great job of that
in the first two episodes, kind of setting you up
for it. I you know, I I don't know how
I felt so much about I'm gonna have to watch
it again. I don't know how I felt about the
blue ghosts flying around that was that was a bit.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Very for me. It was a it was a very
like Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
It's very haunted.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Let me ask you, guys, then, is that because that's
how like a kid would perceive a ghost And you know,
I buy it. I wonder like that all different obviously,
we get that really scary.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We're also seeing like the errors of horror and how
they impact like so you know, like when we're looking
at like in our flashback scene, you know, it's very
like hate grotesque y freak shows exactly. Yeah, And so
like these like nineteen fifties I kind of just hang, like,
have guys seen Halloween costumes from like the fifties and sixties?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Terrifying?
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, very very coded to like house on horned hill
style fifties movie ghosts.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
That's really great pull, Joel. I like that, that's true, Joelle.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Explain also a little bit more about your theory regarding
the theme song, because I do think we get it.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Girl wearing the red ribbons, so talk, talk talk.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I have so many questions about that girl clown. I
hope she comes up again. They spent way too much
time lingering on her. Please. I was immediately interested in
this theme song. It's so weird and goofy, so I
had to look into it. So the theme song is
called a Smile and a Ribbon. It's by Patients and Prudence,
their sisters. If you are on TikTok, you probably know
(35:56):
their song. I know you be too, so body. It's creepy.
Who asked them to sing about being the other woman.
It's bizarre. They're children. But what it resonated was the
final verse of the song, which goes sorry make yourself,
which goes something like this, So I'll have that extra
(36:18):
something because I'll know what to wear. So I'll be
special and i'll be rare. I'll be something beyond compare.
I'll be noticed because I'll wear a smile and a
ribbon in my hair. I think that is the entity
known as it. I think that is the alien, the
high pitched voice, the big tooth thing, big toothy grin,
a lot of stuff about I'll be noticed and I'll
be rare, and I'm going to be right in your
(36:39):
face about it. And it's sickly sweet and charming, but
there's something sinister and weird underneath it. Again, I don't
know what was going on with Patients and Prudence or
the team behind them, but creepy songs, guys, And I
was like, go ahead, Bard.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
The imagery we see are all basically different, historical like
chaotic things that Penny is cars throughout the.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Town, which okay, I also so something I did think
is interesting that I would love to hear you guys
thoughts on. So we were kind of wondering, you know, off, Mike,
where did this new iteration of pennywise, this kind of tall, creepy,
hybrid thin man version. So that which which was really
scary that we saw at the beginning. Now there is
(37:23):
a Native American like story about the tall man, right,
and the description of the toll man is very similar.
It's this kind of notion of this tall, thin, long
armed man.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
So I do think this is them playing on that.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
What I think is most interesting is that the tall
man has been associated throughout history with terrible events like
the Wounded Knee massacre, and then also just seen as
like the way that America has kind of treated indigenous
people has come to that the notion. So I'm interested
because that seems to be what that also setting up
(38:02):
with Pennywise.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I want to because we have critiqued Stephen King's to
be Native Americans, I also want to say that we're
letting this show off the hook in that regard. Yeah,
talk man, first of all, is a plane is a
plane's native. So I have no particular critique. I think
(38:28):
like Stephen King's, I get the criticism, but I also
feel like even this show, which is doing it in
a more positive way, is still playing in the positive
tropes of Native Americans. They're wiser, they have the wisdom
of the woods and the nature, and they know more
(38:50):
about nature than we do. Which listen, sure, but if
that's all you know about them, which is the case
for the show, then are we still not doing it?
That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Can I say, really interesting to me about the indigenous representation.
Here was the council meeting later, which I really snagged
on and again really kind of hyper focusing on the
fact that like fascism has impacted their viewpoints as of
the story, and this idea of like, Okay, here's like
a collective group of people calling together to have a conversation.
One person clearly knows more than everybody else in the
(39:26):
room has a big impact on Like when she's when
Rose stands up to leave, everyone turns to look at her,
but she's not guiding them, and like it's not like
an altruistic like, oh, like what's best for the tribe
or really she's like I'm curious, I want to know
what's going on, and maybe her her ideas are going
to be the best thing for the But this point
in time, I think that to me feels like a
deviation of like the stereotypical way we would depict like
(39:49):
an occasion.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I think in the sense that they are showing her
as like a fool character. Yes, a complex character who's
not just like in habited by various tropes. But all
I'm saying is like we are still this show is
still kind of doing it. It's that's that's my critique
is in the same way that we I think, as
(40:13):
non native consumers of storytelling in various forms, I think
we underrate our own like how much we are programmed
by these tropes over time, and that what we're responding
to is, oh, this is the pot this is oh cool,
(40:34):
Like they're not, uh, you know, savage killers. But what
we are still responding to is this kind of mythical
connection to like, I guess what I'm saying is what
you know, what are these characters like when they are
just like having dinner, not communing with right, not like
(40:58):
in the same way that we saw dinner at the hand,
you know, or kids just talking not like shot through
with whatever this show's version of their belief system.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Now, I will say one, we have some really incredible
Indigenous and Native listeners, So if anyone feels like really
strong about this, like come on and tell us.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Your feelings, because it will be great to have a voice.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
But I will also I just want to say quickly,
ro the woman who plays Rose Kimberly Noris Guerrero. She
did say at New York Comic Con she was basically like,
it's a Stephen King universe. It's a family, but it's
a family that we've been left out of. And she
was like, the natives have been there, we've been able,
but we've never been able to join you at the table.
(41:42):
And now we have stories, and boy, what a story.
So I'm interested to see if there is an expansion
on this because she also feels like she's very happy
with this role and kind of the way it's broadened out.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
So I'm excited to see what.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Want to be clear that I feel very positively about
the show, and you make a great point. You want
to say, much like as when I say like in
the same way that when I see like a martial
arts show or martial arts movie and it's like, of
course the Asians are going to be there, Like like,
of course we're going to be there.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Could you see an agent? Just like playing a PlayStation with.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That friend, I at least want to see like but
when I see it, I at least want to see
us like being cool and not depicted. Chittaly, Yeah, the
same way, like, Okay, this is a magical story about
the fucking woods, about a ghost in the woods, like
and the Native Americans are there, Okay, you like, but
at least it's a good version of that. Like, I
(42:40):
just want to acknowledge that it is a ghost story
about the about the woods. Again.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
I like that you pulled that into because something I'm
interested in with this particular conversation is like the Toll
Mound mythology is like so key to what they're doing,
especially now they've brought him into the text, and this
idea of it now being kind of the Western or
you know, colonizer version of that.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I'm I want. I don't want them.
Speaker 5 (43:06):
To end up connecting these two things together and take.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Like I want to know where that is going, because
as if you, if anyone watched Reservation Dogs, there's some
really interesting stuff in there about the Tall Man and
his relations to like suicide rates.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
So I think there's ways to do this that are
like really thoughtful.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I don't want this to not be that.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
But I think this episode with Rose and kind of
expanding on that and seeing life on the res like
you said, Joel, let's hope that that keeps growing. And
like you said, Jason, we don't just only see them
in the context of it, you know, we get to
see them exist outside of it?
Speaker 7 (43:43):
Can we talk about how incompetent the American government seems
to be hot that I mean, listen that they're not
even anywhere near where pennywise is.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
It seems no, k they're getting hits. Like to be
fair to them, they're spending a tremendous amount of money.
Speaker 7 (44:00):
Underation of all those ships on the sewers. It's got
to be causing some water management issues.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
No, well, that's a good point. It left me wondering,
like when were the sewers built? Like that're so cute?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm huge sorry are we in England?
Speaker 5 (44:17):
These three hundred year old sewers?
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Like come on, guys, they can't be.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Older than like the New York subway system, right.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Like it like it's got to be like eighteen late
eighteen hundreds is what it can't be.
Speaker 7 (44:29):
And nobody has checked them out since it was built.
Apparently like nobody has gone.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
So the thing they're looking for was buried in like
the fifteen eighties.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
So that Joel wants your biggest bet for what they're
looking for.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
I'm so lost. Is it the spaceship that when Penny
when it came.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yes, yes, the way he crashed a million years ago though,
so that would be any longer.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Than crashed Yaw three and sixty five.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Crash hillions of years ago. But they only buried the
spaceship three hundred years ago, right, I don't know. I
don't know. What do you guys think? What do you
think we're looking for?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
I think we're going to be looking for whatever. I
think this is going to be. Like penny Wise was
trapped in something m he escaped it, Okay, I think
I think it's going to be something like I think
it's gonna be that. Like listen, there's no there's no
version of this story from what we've seen so far
(45:34):
right where the native community doesn't know a lot more about.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
That, so does the trapped him before. Maybe that's why
I think they trapped it.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I think they managed to trap it because why couldn't
leave the woods? Why couldn't he leave the woods?
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
So I think they managed to trap him in an
area and whatever that object or thing is, that's what
the government is looking for, and that's the secret. I
think that Rose told the general about it, and I.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Think that might be true also because why could he
not follow them out of the graveyard?
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Exactly.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
And the graveyards the forest, right, it's the graveyard.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because whenever I'm thinking back to
the films and like when we see Pennywise stop and action,
it's usually because there's a group of people. Now like
more people have shown up and you're safe.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
But yeah, I'm very interested in this. I really like
that read on it.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
I have a I have a concern slight concern, Okay, okay.
I think it's really important that two of the big
goals that our characters have are when clear Hank's name
and make sure that the town knows that Lily well,
make sure, at least from a legal perspective, Lily cannot
be put back into a mental institution, right, yes, clear
(46:54):
her name. I think that's very important because I here's
my worry. This was the most IT like episode we got.
The kids. The kids are beginning to fight back. The kids.
They're on buy in, they're on bikes, they're doing the thing,
running around confronting uh this force penny Wise directly right
and kind of getting away with it. I worry if
(47:17):
we continue this way and the kids, with Major Hallern's
help or whoever beat penny Wise, that it will like
I think Pennywise is less scary. If he gets beat
by kids multiple times.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
You've got.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
You've got it. You've got to come up with different
like he can't be like he can't get to the
eighties and be like, oh, the kids are plotting against
me again. I've learned nothing from the time they beat
me in the sixties, And that is my one little concern.
Is anybody else concerned about that?
Speaker 3 (47:47):
No, I don't think anyone gets out all. I think
the only people who get alive are the ones we
know get out alive, like the people that are set
up in stories later. I think everybody else is marked
for death. Given the amount of children we've seen on
Missing Posters and Darry both in the movies and here,
and given the fact that we both its early. Yeah,
(48:10):
first of all, yes, can I tell you that it's
so eerie watching the kids be in the hangout and
like like them completely consuming and taking over the spaces
if those other kids had never ever been here? And I.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
Because also have you noticed how they don't really talk
about them anymore? Like before that was the driving factor,
but now it's like they're kind of forgetting that they
ever existed, which does also feel.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Like, how we're gonna I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
I think any Machete, Andy and Barbara, they have done
stuff before that I haven't, you know, enjoyed choices.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
I felt quite brute all and stuff. But I could imagine.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
Them ending this show with Lily in the institute and
no one believing her and everyone else like forgotten about
apart from you know, Will and Handlon and the people who.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
It seems evidently I don't trust the nurse at the top.
I know she was being friendly, but I'm like, I
think this is good.
Speaker 7 (49:02):
She's got even less control than hers. She's just a custodian,
like she's a oh yeah, she's like a janet.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, oh yeah, I uh okay. So Stephen King loves
the janitor, love loves the janitor, and they're usually altruistic,
so maybe I'm on this cross base here. I just
never trust an adult and a Stephen King film either,
and so Mike consent, Yeah, exactly. So I'm worried about
the nurse. I do think that we're going to end
(49:27):
up with a lot of dead kids and we'll see
like how many wise like becomes even stronger at the end,
especially because we're going backwards, like, well, you really want
to see this in like bust out at the end
of this and then figure out like what was he
tinkering with twenty seven years before that? So I'm okay,
the painting and timing is off, but I think it
works in the show's favor.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Is there a version of this show where it ends
with the Cuba missing missile crisis and then we just
skip backwards.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
The what if? Wait?
Speaker 2 (50:01):
What if they do have an what if the Cuban
missile crisis is a global Pennywise hallucination. I'm never it
never historical happened. It's just like a band of syndrome.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Ya wait, guys, well we're talking about timing. How long
was Lucille in Juniper Hill.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
It feels like two weeks of a week to two weeks.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
She doesn't look too deeply fucked up, and at the
beginning I was really watching those credits when I rewatched
it this morning, and they have like a boy in
an institute getting like labotomized by a bunch of women.
So I think we can assume that if you're there
for a while, you're probably not coming out.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Oh, we didn't even talk about the Madeline Stow character.
Let's talk about the Madeline so character who seems like
a pre loser or like the proto loser like character,
because I do think that this bracelet is whether it's
the same bracelet or it's clearly the inspiration for the
losers later, whether they know it or not.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
Is she somebody who twenty six years ago.
Speaker 5 (51:10):
Had to fight?
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I think yes, she is a survivor of a previous
IT encounter.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
My one believes she has to work as a custodian
in the mental asylum, like they don't really respect at.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
She did keep the brain with the turtle on it,
so that sort of kind of in the loop.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Okay, So I believe so she must have vital like
information about how you can survive this. And my question is,
I guess has she been Have we missed a reference
to her previously? Just a conversation and we like, there's
(51:50):
no way where we don't get a flashback to who
she is she went through.
Speaker 4 (51:54):
Right, like we have to My guess, as I guess
lost time where I really's dad? Yeah, I think there's
gonna be there's gonna be something to do with Lily Dad,
because she seems she still remembers that even though a
lot of the stuff they kind of seem to forget
in the town. I would also say as well, like
I just think that with Madeline and with after the
(52:19):
flashback that began this episode, which I thought was perfectly timed,
and I was like, I think it's gonna draw in
it people.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
I think we could get a flashback per episode.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
Now, like they established them as these kind of like
a cold open basically, and we're starting to see the
way that for example, the car that they found that
was obviously the car that we saw the kid get
kidnapped into, that was a car that was left over
from when a bunch of bank robbers tried to rob
a bank in Derry and everyone just killed them.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
So I think that it can control.
Speaker 5 (52:48):
The people of Derry and make them behave badly too.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah, yeah, maybe it made wonder like the the kid
fight that Charlotte sees and we see them on episode two,
is that like is that an echo through time? Did
she really see that? Did that really happen then everybody
looking at her really weird right? Or or did she
(53:14):
see something that happened a while ago. That's part of
like I do wonder how much of what we are
seeing is unreliable narrator anywise, calluci.
Speaker 7 (53:25):
And I love that, That's what I'm saying. I love
that they established that. You know, it makes it so fun.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
This show's fun. It's fun. It is so fun to
talk about any other hanging, predictions, concerns, final thoughts.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Yeah, I'm really interested in Taylor Page character ms Anlin.
She's married to the major. The more I think, like,
first of all, I think there's levels of brilliance to
this show. Not calling it perfect, not say it's great
show of all time, but like levels of.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Brilliance as happening here. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
Yeah, we we commented on Leroy in episode one and
I said, oh, if he's kind of like naive because
he's got this idea of like, hey, if you follow
all the rules, like America can fix itself. But now
I know Leroy doesn't have a fear response. And then
he's brought his wife and child to a clearly racist
neighborhood where he cannot experience the fear of racism, and
(54:21):
it's constantly denying it.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
And there is.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Something like just as a loud and proud member of
the black community, this is an active thing that happens
frequently is something that's actually happened in my family where
we've integrated spaces, like way early, there's no community and
they're like, this is good. This is like upward movement
and mobility, and you should be grateful to be here.
But that lack of community and support, the ostracization, the
(54:47):
way you already see poor Will in school being ganged up. Immediately,
they're like, do you understand the concept of time? Like
he's an idiot when he's a truly brilliant child, Like
I am so fascinated to see where this story goes,
and I think what Taylor's doing with this ca character. Again,
listen to the podcast Guys official podcast Really Good gives
you a lot of insight. They were talking about how
like her character though written on the page, so much
(55:08):
was discovered when Taylor showed up on set, like the
fact that the Annie said she really came alive during
the dinner scene where she pops up and she measures
her kid after talking about being worried about what's going
on in the South, She's like, you know, boys should
do this, This boy should be measured by She's scattered
and she's all over the place, but she's got this
like great big energy and all this joy and love,
and I'm like, this is a really unique character. I
(55:30):
love her. I can't watch her die. Please don't kill
her off.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
But I do want them to explore this thread of like,
you know what, what is fear for black people in America?
What are you without it? Like that is a fascinating threat,
and I'm excited to see them pull at it more.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
Good point.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Well, we'll be covering this show. Very excited to keep
covering it. I have no idea where we're going.
Speaker 4 (55:51):
No, this episode felt so different to me in a
good way, and I'm excited to keep seeing where it
surprises us like that.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
On the next episodes of Extra Vision, we're diving into
Stranger Things to get you ready for the final season
of Stranger Things, starting your starring your favorite thirty five
year old cast members of Stranger Things. That's it for
this episode.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Thanks for listening, Bye bye back x.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Knight
and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 4 (56:23):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 4 (56:30):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and bay Wag.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (56:38):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi.
Speaker 5 (56:42):
Our disc called moderate though
Worrying.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Today's episode contains spoilers for it. Welcome to Darry Episode three,
You warn't.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
My name is Jason Gettepsion and I'm Mersday Nike, and
welcome back to x ray Vision of the podcast where
we dive. Do you be to your favorite shows, movies,
comics of pop culture? Coming to you from my heart.
We'll bring you three episodes a week las days.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
In today's episode, we are going back to Darry, Maine
and we are going to recap the episode before we
introduce the scream, Queen's comment and Joel to talk about
this law expanding episode.
Speaker 5 (00:51):
Is it better? Is it worse?
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Is it keeping up the consistency of the show. We
will be talking about it, but first let's recap.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to Darry Episode three. We open in the past
sometime there's a carnival on the outskirts of Darry, a
Barker carnival. Barker steers a young boy named Francis towards
a certain tent he says is filled with terrors and
it's like normal carnival stuff in there Siamese twins, you
(01:21):
know that kind of thing with a gross connecting flap.
He goes into a darker room of the tent and
he gets like really scared by a man with one eye.
He flees the tent. His dad is like, you're a
sissy because you're scared, but I bought you a sling
shot anyway. It's a really cool slingshot with like a
rubber one of those like thick rubber band.
Speaker 5 (01:42):
Looks like you could really shoot some stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Right, like a like a tie off for a heroin
shot type thickness shot medical. A young girl clown in
the classic Pennywise look is watching from nearby, and one wonders,
is this penny Wise or is this where penny Wise.
I think this is where penny Wise got the idea.
(02:06):
This isn't Pennywise exactly. Yeah, And the dad and the son, Francis,
they leave. They're in their little drop top ford going
home and the car breaks down because it overheats. So
Dad's like, go over there to that roadside stand and
buy me some water for the car. So they go
(02:29):
over there and it's a Native run stand. The clerk
is a young girl about the same age as Francis,
and but the boy doesn't have enough money. The dad
didn't give enough money. He gave him like four cents
and it's like a nickel.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Yeah, I'm like, you got money?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah, what's going on? So the kid has to barter
his slingshot to get it, and but he does get it,
and the car is running again, and the dad gets
pissed when he knows slingshot's missic. Soon enough, Francis and
these native kids are great friends. And it seems like
him and the girl there's his name is Rose, there's
like a little little something. It's a little summer, summer
(03:10):
of love for these zoo But so they running around
in the woods. One day, Francis runs into this certain
cops of trees. It's like it's a perfect opening into
this darker part of the woods and Rose is like, no, no, no, no,
no no no, which, by the way, you should have
told him, by the way we're gonna play out here,
don't go in there.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But now it's like a gate right there.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, don't go in that very inviting. Don't go in.
He goes in. It immediately turns spooky. The one eyed
guy is there stalking him from behind trees. He turns
into a monster that is chasing him, and the girl
manages to like plink the guy in the face with
the slingshot and then leads Francis to safety. Then we
(03:56):
go to the credits, which Joelle has a wonderful theory
that the credits song is sung from the perspective of Pennywise.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
Love that, and we.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Open on Juniper Hill, the state run sanitarium where Lily
has been. It's now I guess it's been like a
couple of weeks, like two weeks or something, or a
week and Lily, Lily's Mom's coming to pick her up,
and the doctor tells Lily's mom like, we've been heavily, heavily,
heavily drugging her, and she seems to be getting better. Also,
(04:27):
she seems to have struck up a very close relationship
with a member of the staff who I will refer
to by her government named Madeline Stowe, the actor, because
we don't really have her name in this episode. So
it's back the beautiful, the gorgeous Madeline Stowe, big star
in the eighties, late eighties and nineties. And it's very
(04:51):
clear I think that Madeline Stowe has been through some
Pennywise battles herself exactly right, definitely, and because she's like yo,
I believe you, Lily, I believe you, no question, I
believe it. And then she gives her like a reference
to the Losers Club. The book version of the Loser's
(05:13):
Club gives Lily a little friendship charm bracelet, which is
a big thing in the book. We go to jail.
The chief of police goes to jail visits Hank Hatchet.
Hank in there. It's like he want a cigarette, and
then of course it's like not a friendly visit. The
chief immediately is like, hey, you know what they do
(05:34):
to child murders in prison, Well, you better confess because
maybe we'll like what is It's like it's all stick
and no carrot, Like, what is what's the upside to confessing?
Speaker 5 (05:46):
They're just saying you're gonna get killed if you don't confess.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
It's very you're getting killed anyway. Yeah, I mean it's
killed anyway, Like there's nothing. Denny kind of reveals that
they allegedly found a sick gret packet.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Like Hank, you know, smokes at the cinema at the
crime scene.
Speaker 4 (06:04):
Is like, yeah, he's the projectionist. Everybody's smiles there all
the time. They street, they just smoke all the time
back then.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Come on, Ronnie is back at school getting bullied by
Patty and the mean girls. Will is feeling bad for her,
and we'll find out that Will actually has a has
a big old crush on her. Lily meanwhile, I was
trying to make amends with Ronnie, but of course Ronnie
just want to hear it, and Lily's like, listen, I'll
do anything to clear your dad's name. I came up
(06:31):
with an idea, what about this. We take a picture
of the shit when it's happening, like the demon shit,
the octopus in the grocery store, or the baby with
the little wings like whatever from it takes. We take
a picture. But the problem is where do we get
the pictures developed? And Ronnie is like, oh, I just
(06:53):
talked to this kid who like knows a lot about chemistry,
So I got an idea.
Speaker 4 (06:57):
Also, I yes, I do just want to quickly say,
nice to see kids having a good plan in a
horror movie, because.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
This is the kind of thing where when you're watching it,
you gotta do that.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
You're like, you gotta try it, like even if you're
even if an adult is going to be like you
fake these or they don't you gotta do it?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Like this is the kind of stuff that.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
You yell at the screen when you're watching a horror movie,
like take a picture, take off the guy's mask when
you knock him over.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
So I'm proud of them for this plan, even this
is more in danger.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Right when this happened, I'm like, oh, we're going this
is the most in the footsteps of it, both the book,
the original miniseries, and the movies. This is this whole episode.
It's starting with this where the kids begin to fight back.
We go to the base. The colonel briefs the General
(07:48):
on the car find and they're like, hey, it was
a good, good find, but we didn't. They're looking for
something and whatever it is, it's not in the car.
The car just has skeletons and bullet holes and it's
part of gang war that happened back in the day.
And the General is like, yeah, that's not it. Whatever
they're looking for, it came from three hundred years earlier.
(08:10):
So the general. You're getting the picture that the general
knows a lot about the thing they're looking for, and
the question is how so the general is on a
clock for some reason. He's like we're running at a time.
So this leads me to believe that the General knows
about the twenty cycle, the penny Wise cycle, but also
(08:31):
that the cycle and the Cuban missile crisis are kind
of like there's a there's a dual clock here, because
I guess the here's my theory. The General is worried
that Pennywise will disappear at the end of the cycle
and they will miss their window to stop the Cubans
and the Soviets from putting the missiles in or from
them deploying the penny Wise weapon against the Soviet. So
(08:58):
then the General is like goes into his top drawer.
He pulls out of Philly's blunt cigar box. Listen, yeah,
I mean listen for for a person like me. When
I see that Phillies cigar box, I'm thinking one thing,
who's rolling up the stuff? Who's got it?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
I was like, oh, time to relax, God.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Break it up.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Honestly, they could all deal with with a little stuffy,
could use this, use last no stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So there's something important in there, but he doesn't open
it at that time. Then we go to uh the
Airman tent where we see hallerin and the buddy's talking,
talking tall tales. The airmen still are not sure what
to make of of Dick Hallarin's tall tales, but they
do know he has pulling because it's raining and they're
in this really shitty almost like a cargo.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
It's a really bad last tent.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's bad. They're like, well, use your juice to like
fix the roof in this tent. As we're gonna rained on,
let's take a quick break and let's continue with the
recap wake up box and we're back. Okay, So we're
(10:27):
still on base, Major handling Captain Russo they're walking over
to their helicopter to do some sort of overflight of
the town training mission whatever it is, whatever it was
gonna be it It changes when the colonel comes over
bringing Hallarin and is like, you two are going to
take this guy up in the air wherever. He says,
(10:47):
fly to, you fly to, and Hallarin is clutching that
Phillies blunt box and you're wondering, like, are they just
gonna hot box.
Speaker 4 (10:56):
It's a big helicopter with just the three of them,
and I'm like, they could really.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
Get away with it, dude. This is pre camera age.
They could be smoking out in there.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
So they go up and we see that the slingshot
is in the box and Hallarn is telling them every
which way to go. Turn east, he says, and then
we flash back again. Frances and the girl have made
it out of the woods and she tells him that
that thing is it stays in there, it doesn't come out,
but as long as you don't go in there, you're fine.
(11:27):
And she is like, listen, I'll tell you everything I
know about it, but it's a secret, and just don't
tell anybody else. And then we flash forward. We realize
that the girl Rose is now Rose, the owner of
the antique store in town, and roses in the middle
of a local a meeting of the local native community.
They're all upset that the military is digging around in
(11:49):
their sacred areas and they're like and they're coming at
you know, they're pitching ideas. They're like, okay, well we
can we already did a cease and desist, but let's
see at least if they can. You know, there's different
ideas being thrown around, like can we get at least
some money, like so we can fix up the community,
Like if they're going to be doing this, they should
at least be paying like some sort of rent or
at lease or something. The young man from the observation
(12:12):
party from earlier, who is spying on the military comes
over to Rose Anti Rose, they call her, and it
is like, listen, we got to do something. What that
is we don't know, but roses like no, no, no, no, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
So you know she actually does cool for a season
to desist after this, and that's how the general remembers that.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
No, they but I think they already. I think they
already put the paper. I think they already did.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
They already put it in.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
But she is like in of the season right, she's
very much in support of this season desist, but she's
not the The young man is like, we got to
do something else, like he wants to. There's some other
thing that he has in mind that clearly they've talked
about that we don't know what it is. And Rose
is like, no, we're not going to do that. Whatever
that is, we're not going to do that yet. Because
she doesn't necessarily want to stop them, she wants to
(12:59):
know what they're looking for, so she needs to find
that information first before she decides, like what path they're
gonna choose. Meanwhile, up in the air, Hallarin feeling the
penny vibes Anywise vibes, which I call Penny vibes, and
he's like having a fit. You know, Handling is looking
back there, Russell's looking back there. They're like Jesus, great,
(13:20):
what the fuck's going on? And you know they calling in.
They're like, I don't know. Like Halarin's like flipping out,
and then.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
He's having a wine shots like they should have given
him a bit I feel like they should have given
these two guys.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
A bit more some Yeah, I completely agree, give him
something like.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
Could have helped you turn this into like a disaster situation. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
But they're like, but whoever is on the radios is
like no, no, no, like whatever happens on the road. Hallarin
gets up. He's really feeling the penny vibes and boom,
he's down in that sewer. Oh, he's down there, and
he sees like an old wagon like from the carnival
advertising Pennywise the Clown, and it pops open it into
his stage. Here's a voice that's like he asks like
(14:03):
who are you? And he has like a vision of
war and it looks like World War One and the
trenches and explosions, and then and then he sees the
kids who have been captured and put in the sewer,
all floating up into the air with all their stuff
and all their like toys and their bikes and all
that kind of shit. And then he sees his Grandma's
(14:24):
one of these people floating around in there, and she
tells him get out of here now, Dicky. And meanwhile,
in real life in the helicopter, Dick is like pulling
the release on the back hatch of the helicopter and
is trying to escape. He thinks in his mind escape
the sewer, but in real life trying to jump out
(14:44):
of the helicopter and annyways trying to kill him, absolutely
trying to kill him. So Handlan like manages to grab
him and is like keeps him in the helicopter. Later,
Handlan is like telling the general all the shit, like,
oh my god, like he tried to jump out and
it was fucking insane. I had to grab his guy,
what like what's going on over there? And Dick is
in the General's office shaken, telling him like, hey, here's
(15:08):
all the ship I saw. And he's like, I'm worried
about this thing because this that thing shouldn't have known
that we were there, like I wasn't. I wasn't actually
in the area, like I was high above it. So
I don't know. This is very concerning, like are we
going to unleash whatever this thing is? And the general
doesn't give a shit. We go to the diner, local diner,
(15:31):
Will and Rich Will Handlan and his little pencil buddy
Rich are hanging out talking about them titties. They love titties.
Kids in this town love tits.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Rich just loves any crush like he's crush on the
diner lady he's got. I think he's kind of got
a crush on Well, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I like, I am getting other vibes.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Equal opportunities.
Speaker 4 (15:56):
I feel like he talks about the groups so much,
so maybe people I don't realize he doesn't love it.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
That's kind of where I'm feeling because but maybe that's
a subtext that I'm bringing to it. Anyway, Rich loves
titties so much. You're talking about him, but he's also
like it. He's like, I love titties, but also like
Marge's face is another thing that I love, and there's
(16:22):
a knock on the window outside. Ronnie and Lily are
there and they're like, Will, what do you know about
film developing? He's like, I know, film developing. What do
you mean? He's like, well, listen, we need some film
developed and we'll tell you why eventually. Okay. Meanwhile, Rich
then accuses Will of liking Ronnie, which kind of comes
(16:43):
out of nowhere, but you get it, and we buy.
Yeah antique store, the general comes in and has like
got anything for a nicol to rose, and holy shit,
you realize he is Franks the young boy. Did you
see this coming?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Because I did?
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Generated did oh at fust maybe Francis was gonna become Pennywise.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I didn't know he had that little hat on.
Speaker 5 (17:04):
I wasn't sure what was going on.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
You know, Yeah, me neither.
Speaker 5 (17:07):
So yeah, no, I didn't see that coming.
Speaker 4 (17:09):
Also, I do want to say, ari willam modge having
a crush on like the nudy girl with glosses and
a bad hack, very gay, just saying, just saying.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I just you know everything about rich just I wonder anyway,
so even the way she's like riding the bike and
running for petty like anyway, Yeah, that's we're fast worded.
So the General comes in and is like, oh, it's
so good to see you. And just so you know,
(17:40):
like I didn't actually remember you until kind of today,
and a bunch of things have been going, like I'm
working on stuff, and it's like the memories came back
and and and and I realized like we were kind
of boyfriend girlfriend for a summer, Like we had a
thing and I didn't remember it until I got your
cammunity season desist letter that had your name on it
(18:02):
that said stop digging around. And just so you know,
we're digging around for the water supply.
Speaker 5 (18:09):
Yeah, famous thing the community.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We want to Yeah, it's like the base needs were
water and uh, we're looking for a way to you know,
get the reroot some of the local streams into the
into the basest.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Trustworthy American government.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And she's like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then sensing
her suspicion, and I gotta say, this is a good
one from Francis. I.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
This is a really good one because it also it
also gives her what she is looking for, So I
think we can see this happening.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
This is a good one. He goes, you know, you
don't have to. Maybe you could tell us, you know,
areas to stay away from, respectful you see of your
of your community and their sacred areas, and you could
just you know, be like, yeah that you could go
over there and dig grin over there, but like this
one don't and you could trust me. We go to
(19:06):
a flashback Francis his dad is getting redeployed. So Francis
is telling Rose as they hang out very boyfriend girlfriend
like near a stream, that he's gonna have to move soon.
And Rose is like, well, in that case, here, I'm
gonna give you this back. Here's your slingshot black and
he and Francis m is clearly very much crushing on Roses, like,
(19:31):
make me a promise that you'll never forget about me,
never forget about the summer that we had in all
the warm times and the demon that you saved me
from and all of that stuff. And Rose is like, well, listen,
you do. Something you need to know about this town
is when you leave here, you kind of forget almost immediately,
(19:51):
like things will just become very foggy and you're gonna
forget about me. And I'm sorry to hear that, but
that's what's gonna happen. We go to the present, Lily,
Ronnie take Will and Rich to the boys hang out
the disappeared boys hang out, which Rich is like, holy shit,
like what and they tell them about the mission. We're
(20:11):
seeing demons, ghosts and we need to take a picture
of them and then get the picture develops so we
can prove to everybody that Lily's not crazy when she
tells the truth, and that my dad is innocent of
the crimes of killing numerous kids. Rich is immediately like, oh,
that's an evil spirit. What the other guy? Yeah, yeah,
(20:33):
my t O was big in the Santa Ria scene
in Cuba, and like knows all about like the candles,
Like you get the ceremonial candles, you set it up
at a graveyard, you chant the thing, and then the
demon shows up and they're like, oh shit, well Rich,
you're in charge of that now.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
Why this is like a tradition throughout horror movies real life.
Speaker 5 (21:00):
Why are people always like, oh, it's just summon a demon.
Speaker 4 (21:02):
Don't do it, don't play with don't do it, don't
go to the graveyard.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Bad idea.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I do, I will say in this episode's favor I
do think that Ronnie's dad being in prison and Lily
being you know, deemed as crazy are really really great
and goffins for why they would do this, But I
was still like yelling at the TV.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I think they actually need that stuff, right, because they do.
As we're going to talk about later when I talk
about my slight notes on slight concerns about things that
might emerge beating penny Wise kind of can't they need
other goals such as, you know, Lily being cleared and
Hank Hatchet Hank being cleared because I think there's a
(21:47):
little bit of danger to beating Pennywise.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Yeah, because also as well, we can never truly beat
him because he knows, we know he's coming back, yes,
and so that is so I think you're right, it's
good to give them other goal for sure.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Dicky Hallarin comes over to the Handling House and gets
to know everybody, and Dick is you can tell Charlotte's
not a huge fan of Derry. He can tell this
because he's reading everybody's minds. He doesn't. And we learned
that Charlotte was a school teacher. She's involved in the
(22:22):
civil rights movement or it certainly wants to be more
involved here in town. But if the major is worried
about rocking the boat and this kind of thing, Dick
backs the major up and is like, yeah, he's right
to be worried about that, Like it's a little sensitive
around here. And Charlotte is like, you fucking cowards.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, I'm gonna make this.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Meanwhile, Dick is you know, they're they're hanging out with
Will in a private moments like where's your son?
Speaker 4 (22:47):
Well, weird question, not subtle, and I'm a big fan
of the Major's response.
Speaker 5 (22:55):
Why He's just kind of like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
So in this, in this moment, he's like with friends, okay.
And then we go to see where they're at. They're
in the cemetery. They got the candles, they got them
all set up in the circle. Rich meanwhile is burning film.
There's only like twenty four or thirty six shots pictures.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He's just like.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
He's just like Britge very funny joke.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So Ronnie's like stop doing that, like okay and get
to work, like we got look, we got the candles.
Do the thing. So they he does the thing. Meanwhile,
Dick and the Major they're on the porch now drinking beers,
and the major is like, how do you know I
have a son. I didn't mention him. There's no pictures
of him, I guess in the house, And and Dick
is kind of like, you know, like I think on
(23:44):
the base maybe people were talking about him or something.
And the Major then goes to, okay, so what happened
up in the air. It felt like some I don't know,
like some sort of psychic shit or something. And then
the says, by the way, I think you can read minds,
(24:05):
and I think I have. And here's how I know,
because I think you were part of the attack on
me that night. I think you were not the guy
attacking me, but I think you were standing off the
side because I.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
Felt he could feel the same feeling which I thought
that i'm having now.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yes, that someone is in my mind or you know,
rummaging around in there, and I felt it from that
guy that night I was attacking. I'm feeling it from
you now, So stay out of my head, buddy. And
Dick is like, listen, I will, I'm not gonna fuck
with you. And here's why. Because when you had a
gun to your head and people were beating the shit
out of you, and they were saying, like one hundred percent,
(24:42):
we're going to kill you. I sensed no fear from you,
only like analytical.
Speaker 5 (24:47):
Didn't think of his family, didn't think of his why
that was.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
No fear And he was like, the kind of people
they sent me to fuck with, they have fea I
thought that was a gratified with you.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
So very clearly this is going to play a role
in whatever happens with Pennywise later because he's this is
the guy who's immune to pennyone.
Speaker 4 (25:06):
I like that they built this relationship between the two
of them as well, because there's this great moment during
this conversation early on where Hamlin's kind of like, well,
you won't believe me if I tell you I can
do and then May just like nah, He's like every
where I lived because they were in I think New
Orleans before, He's like, everyone knew someone who could do that.
So I like that even though this guy is the sensible,
(25:27):
logical guy, he's also going to be a believer, which
means that when Will and the kids inevitably tell him,
he will likely be the adult ally, which is nice
and rare to have a sensible adult ally in horror movie.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
We go to the graveyard where nothing is happening, and
it turns out Rich was probably lying, like a lot,
a lot of stuff, and so sure Jed definitely like
inflating these stories, these tall tales about his te o
and all that stuff. So everybody gets mad at them,
(26:01):
and recriminations flying back and forth, and you know, it
kind of emerges that maybe the boys didn't believe any
of this. They're just hanging out because mainly because Will
has a crush on Ronnie, and so that gets thrown around.
Ronnie storms off, Lily takes the camera and follows, and
(26:21):
I was wondering, now if some of the early shots,
if there's going to be film, if there's gonna be
something on there. Rich and Will follow the girls on
their bikes, because the girls, you know, it took their bikes.
They're just like fuck this, We're leaving. They're peddling towards
the gate, but the gate is never getting closer, it's
getting farther away. And now the shit is popping off right.
(26:45):
The ground is opening up. The ghosts of the slain kid,
the disappeared kids are coming out of the ground and
saying something, and the girls are like snapping pictures like
as these ghosts are flying through the ears, it gets
very like Chase for the Infinity Gauntlet at the end
of End Game, where the camera keeps getting hung up
on a brunch and then another person has everyone has
(27:05):
to grab the camera.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
The camera.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Yeah, so all these things are happening. Meanwhile, Will gets
trapped in a crypt and a scary part of the
graveyard and it's kind of the Chase goes by this crypt.
As Will is in there, the camera gets dropped on
the ground riches like pick up the camera. Will then
(27:29):
picks up the camera and is like he sensed somebody
behind him in the crypt, and he's like, I'm gonna
go back and try and really get this a good shot,
which you're screaming, no, don't do this, but he goes
in there, he snaps a picture and doesn't emerge for
a second, but then he does manages to get to
(27:49):
his friends who are standing outside the gates. They all
embrace huge moment. They go back to develop the film
at the school and when the shots come out, they
get the shot, you know, they see the ghosts of
the kids and it's this is great. And then the
last one that Will took in the crypt. Is this
very blurred out clown, very scary clown. It is Pennywise. Yeah,
(28:12):
and great moment.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
There he is and they go, what's that? Boom boom.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Let's take a quick break and when we come back,
we will be joined by the Scream Queens. Carmen, Joel
talk about.
Speaker 6 (28:27):
This episode.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
And we're back. Welcome to the Scream Queens. Thank you
for joining us at Ladies. How are you I. We'd
love to get your takes on this episode, Joel, let's
start with you your thought.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I really like this one, guys, Like I text the
screen Queen's group chat that I was like, I'm glad
the show keeps getting better. Well, we'll get into the
scares and sort of where they rank. I do think
these scares not as scary as one in two. However,
I think the application of the scares and their impact
on characters remains strong enough that it keeps my interest.
(29:20):
And I also I love the goofy little blue floating
kids like it really it worked for me. I was
like this, if I wat seance in the cemetery, I
would be really moved by this. I also Corey Jefferson
is a co producer on this if you're unfamiliar with
the name. He worked on Watchman. He wrote the sixth episode,
(29:40):
which was the flashback with the Police. A depo who
is in this show playing the Major played the police
officer in there. He based that the character here in
it on his father. And I was listening to the
it Welcome to Dairy Official podcast hosted by friend of
the pod Mark Barnarden and Prince Weeks, and on it,
(30:02):
Andy Muschietti was talking about how like when they brought Cordon,
he was really responsible for really nailing the tone of
everything that's going on in the Major's house and developing
those characters. And I just think like in sci fi specifically,
when you're dealing with like racist issues, it's rare that
we get two black characters talking to each other not
(30:23):
about race issues and not sort of lamenting, and they're
both really fleshed out and like feel like real human characters.
And I was like, the scene on the porch really
for me was a sweet spot. I had a lot
of fun with this episode.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I was gonna say, Joe, could you talk a little
bit more to that, because I do feel like we're
coming out of what my my very talented friend and
cartoonist Bianca Eunice was calling for a while the Jordan
Peel industrial complex, not a critique on Jordan, but a
critique on studios trying to replicate that through basically just
doing black trauma right them these stories that were very
(30:59):
much about like, yeah, being black is horrible, but it's
also like we have to show that through violence, violence
violence against black people constantly, that there is a you know,
a limit there of how effective that can be when
it comes to making like a radical statement. This feels
like an evolution of that to telling like a historically
(31:20):
accurate story about America within like a genre space. Could
you talk a little bit about how this kind of
grows on those shows that we've had over the last
few years.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Yeah, it's been a really interesting time. We're seeing a
lot of reports on like a downswing and hiring people
of color and women behind the camera. We're seeing a
lot of studios step away from these kinds of projects
which were really pushed after the George Floyd incident as
well as the success of get Out. A lot of
(31:51):
the wrong lessons were learned from get Out. Get Out
is not an extremely violent film. It's an extremely psychological
film that really seeks to explore like the eternal headspace
of black people as they deal with racism. And so
I think for me anyway, like this is a thing,
especially as we look at like sci fi and horror.
You know, often those are used as lenses to explore
(32:14):
and critique the other. So, whether that's black culture, queer culture,
you name it, and that's a good thing. Someone I
wish I could remember who wrote someone wrote a really
good article recently about it, talking about just this subject,
and they were saying something really interesting to me, which
is like, if you want to place a movie in
(32:34):
a time or racism exists, you cannot have people of
color and not have it be impacting them. Like it's impossible. Yeah,
But at the same time, like how much of that
do we want? But I also don't want to be
a race from history. I also really respect my ancestors
and what they went through. I also know they have
lives outside of that, and so I think it's a
really hard needle to thread, to be like, we want
to address the issues as they were occurring in time,
(32:57):
but we want to make sure we have full human
beings outside of these like defined limits. So I think
what's really interesting to me is, like the Mushi Eddies
are coming. You know, they were born and raised in
Columbia under fascism. They've talked a lot about its impact
on this story. Specifically they've put you know, aditionous folks
(33:17):
and black people that I think they've really put together
a well rounded room so that we could get characters
like this, so that you could do all of it,
so that you could both critique the culture at the
time and have like these really deeply interesting characters. I
want to hear Carmen's thoughts, but we should definitely circle
back to the ideas.
Speaker 7 (33:33):
I was gonna say, yeah, I felt like this episode.
Of course, it's definitely not a scariest episode one or two,
but I did enjoy the lore expansion that we're doing here.
I really love to get to know the character Declarin
a little bit more. He is one of my favorite
characters from The Shining getting to know how his like
powers work a little bit more too. I just have
(33:55):
to say though, I do love how the series continually
keeps you on edge. You know, like when you enter
a new scene, if you can trust what you're seeing,
you know, you're like because they've established that in episode
one or two. Even though I wasn't as scared in
episode three, I was still just as on edge because
I wasn't necessarily trusting everything that I was seeing right away.
(34:17):
And I think they do a great job of that
in the first two episodes, kind of setting you up
for it. I you know, I I don't know how
I felt so much about I'm gonna have to watch
it again. I don't know how I felt about the
blue ghosts flying around that was that was a bit.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Very for me. It was a it was a very
like Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
It's very haunted.
Speaker 4 (34:39):
Let me ask you, guys, then, is that because that's
how like a kid would perceive a ghost And you know,
I buy it. I wonder like that all different obviously,
we get that really scary.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
We're also seeing like the errors of horror and how
they impact like so you know, like when we're looking
at like in our flashback scene, you know, it's very
like hate grotesque y freak shows exactly. Yeah, And so
like these like nineteen fifties I kind of just hang, like,
have guys seen Halloween costumes from like the fifties and sixties?
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Terrifying?
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Yeah, very very coded to like house on horned hill
style fifties movie ghosts.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
That's really great pull, Joel. I like that, that's true, Joelle.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
Explain also a little bit more about your theory regarding
the theme song, because I do think we get it.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
Girl wearing the red ribbons, so talk, talk talk.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I have so many questions about that girl clown. I
hope she comes up again. They spent way too much
time lingering on her. Please. I was immediately interested in
this theme song. It's so weird and goofy, so I
had to look into it. So the theme song is
called a Smile and a Ribbon. It's by Patients and Prudence,
their sisters. If you are on TikTok, you probably know
(35:56):
their song. I know you be too, so body. It's creepy.
Who asked them to sing about being the other woman.
It's bizarre. They're children. But what it resonated was the
final verse of the song, which goes sorry make yourself,
which goes something like this, So I'll have that extra
(36:18):
something because I'll know what to wear. So I'll be
special and i'll be rare. I'll be something beyond compare.
I'll be noticed because I'll wear a smile and a
ribbon in my hair. I think that is the entity
known as it. I think that is the alien, the
high pitched voice, the big tooth thing, big toothy grin,
a lot of stuff about I'll be noticed and I'll
be rare, and I'm going to be right in your
(36:39):
face about it. And it's sickly sweet and charming, but
there's something sinister and weird underneath it. Again, I don't
know what was going on with Patients and Prudence or
the team behind them, but creepy songs, guys, And I
was like, go ahead, Bard.
Speaker 7 (36:53):
The imagery we see are all basically different, historical like
chaotic things that Penny is cars throughout the.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Town, which okay, I also so something I did think
is interesting that I would love to hear you guys
thoughts on. So we were kind of wondering, you know, off, Mike,
where did this new iteration of pennywise, this kind of tall, creepy,
hybrid thin man version. So that which which was really
scary that we saw at the beginning. Now there is
(37:23):
a Native American like story about the tall man, right,
and the description of the toll man is very similar.
It's this kind of notion of this tall, thin, long
armed man.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
So I do think this is them playing on that.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
What I think is most interesting is that the tall
man has been associated throughout history with terrible events like
the Wounded Knee massacre, and then also just seen as
like the way that America has kind of treated indigenous
people has come to that the notion. So I'm interested
because that seems to be what that also setting up
(38:02):
with Pennywise.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
I want to because we have critiqued Stephen King's to
be Native Americans, I also want to say that we're
letting this show off the hook in that regard. Yeah,
talk man, first of all, is a plane is a
plane's native. So I have no particular critique. I think
(38:28):
like Stephen King's, I get the criticism, but I also
feel like even this show, which is doing it in
a more positive way, is still playing in the positive
tropes of Native Americans. They're wiser, they have the wisdom
of the woods and the nature, and they know more
(38:50):
about nature than we do. Which listen, sure, but if
that's all you know about them, which is the case
for the show, then are we still not doing it?
That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Can I say, really interesting to me about the indigenous representation.
Here was the council meeting later, which I really snagged
on and again really kind of hyper focusing on the
fact that like fascism has impacted their viewpoints as of
the story, and this idea of like, Okay, here's like
a collective group of people calling together to have a conversation.
One person clearly knows more than everybody else in the
(39:26):
room has a big impact on Like when she's when
Rose stands up to leave, everyone turns to look at her,
but she's not guiding them, and like it's not like
an altruistic like, oh, like what's best for the tribe
or really she's like I'm curious, I want to know
what's going on, and maybe her her ideas are going
to be the best thing for the But this point
in time, I think that to me feels like a
deviation of like the stereotypical way we would depict like
(39:49):
an occasion.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
I think in the sense that they are showing her
as like a fool character. Yes, a complex character who's
not just like in habited by various tropes. But all
I'm saying is like we are still this show is
still kind of doing it. It's that's that's my critique
is in the same way that we I think, as
(40:13):
non native consumers of storytelling in various forms, I think
we underrate our own like how much we are programmed
by these tropes over time, and that what we're responding
to is, oh, this is the pot this is oh cool,
(40:34):
Like they're not, uh, you know, savage killers. But what
we are still responding to is this kind of mythical
connection to like, I guess what I'm saying is what
you know, what are these characters like when they are
just like having dinner, not communing with right, not like
(40:58):
in the same way that we saw dinner at the hand,
you know, or kids just talking not like shot through
with whatever this show's version of their belief system.
Speaker 7 (41:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:09):
Now, I will say one, we have some really incredible
Indigenous and Native listeners, So if anyone feels like really
strong about this, like come on and tell us.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Your feelings, because it will be great to have a voice.
Speaker 4 (41:21):
But I will also I just want to say quickly,
ro the woman who plays Rose Kimberly Noris Guerrero. She
did say at New York Comic Con she was basically like,
it's a Stephen King universe. It's a family, but it's
a family that we've been left out of. And she
was like, the natives have been there, we've been able,
but we've never been able to join you at the table.
(41:42):
And now we have stories, and boy, what a story.
So I'm interested to see if there is an expansion
on this because she also feels like she's very happy
with this role and kind of the way it's broadened out.
Speaker 5 (41:58):
So I'm excited to see what.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Want to be clear that I feel very positively about
the show, and you make a great point. You want
to say, much like as when I say like in
the same way that when I see like a martial
arts show or martial arts movie and it's like, of
course the Asians are going to be there, Like like,
of course we're going to be there.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Could you see an agent? Just like playing a PlayStation with.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
That friend, I at least want to see like but
when I see it, I at least want to see
us like being cool and not depicted. Chittaly, Yeah, the
same way, like, Okay, this is a magical story about
the fucking woods, about a ghost in the woods, like
and the Native Americans are there, Okay, you like, but
at least it's a good version of that. Like, I
(42:40):
just want to acknowledge that it is a ghost story
about the about the woods. Again.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
I like that you pulled that into because something I'm
interested in with this particular conversation is like the Toll
Mound mythology is like so key to what they're doing,
especially now they've brought him into the text, and this
idea of it now being kind of the Western or
you know, colonizer version of that.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
I'm I want. I don't want them.
Speaker 5 (43:06):
To end up connecting these two things together and take.
Speaker 4 (43:10):
Like I want to know where that is going, because
as if you, if anyone watched Reservation Dogs, there's some
really interesting stuff in there about the Tall Man and
his relations to like suicide rates.
Speaker 5 (43:20):
So I think there's ways to do this that are
like really thoughtful.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I don't want this to not be that.
Speaker 4 (43:26):
But I think this episode with Rose and kind of
expanding on that and seeing life on the res like
you said, Joel, let's hope that that keeps growing. And
like you said, Jason, we don't just only see them
in the context of it, you know, we get to
see them exist outside of it?
Speaker 7 (43:43):
Can we talk about how incompetent the American government seems
to be hot that I mean, listen that they're not
even anywhere near where pennywise is.
Speaker 2 (43:53):
It seems no, k they're getting hits. Like to be
fair to them, they're spending a tremendous amount of money.
Speaker 7 (44:00):
Underation of all those ships on the sewers. It's got
to be causing some water management issues.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
No, well, that's a good point. It left me wondering,
like when were the sewers built? Like that're so cute?
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I'm huge sorry are we in England?
Speaker 5 (44:17):
These three hundred year old sewers?
Speaker 1 (44:19):
Like come on, guys, they can't be.
Speaker 3 (44:21):
Older than like the New York subway system, right.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Like it like it's got to be like eighteen late
eighteen hundreds is what it can't be.
Speaker 7 (44:29):
And nobody has checked them out since it was built.
Apparently like nobody has gone.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
So the thing they're looking for was buried in like
the fifteen eighties.
Speaker 4 (44:38):
So that Joel wants your biggest bet for what they're
looking for.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
I'm so lost. Is it the spaceship that when Penny
when it came.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yes, yes, the way he crashed a million years ago though,
so that would be any longer.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Than crashed Yaw three and sixty five.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Crash hillions of years ago. But they only buried the
spaceship three hundred years ago, right, I don't know. I
don't know. What do you guys think? What do you
think we're looking for?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
I think we're going to be looking for whatever. I
think this is going to be. Like penny Wise was
trapped in something m he escaped it, Okay, I think
I think it's going to be something like I think
it's gonna be that. Like listen, there's no there's no
version of this story from what we've seen so far
(45:34):
right where the native community doesn't know a lot more about.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
That, so does the trapped him before. Maybe that's why
I think they trapped it.
Speaker 2 (45:44):
I think they managed to trap it because why couldn't
leave the woods? Why couldn't he leave the woods?
Speaker 3 (45:49):
Right?
Speaker 2 (45:50):
So I think they managed to trap him in an
area and whatever that object or thing is, that's what
the government is looking for, and that's the secret. I
think that Rose told the general about it, and I.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Think that might be true also because why could he
not follow them out of the graveyard?
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Exactly.
Speaker 5 (46:10):
And the graveyards the forest, right, it's the graveyard.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because whenever I'm thinking back to
the films and like when we see Pennywise stop and action,
it's usually because there's a group of people. Now like
more people have shown up and you're safe.
Speaker 4 (46:26):
But yeah, I'm very interested in this. I really like
that read on it.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
I have a I have a concern slight concern, Okay, okay.
I think it's really important that two of the big
goals that our characters have are when clear Hank's name
and make sure that the town knows that Lily well,
make sure, at least from a legal perspective, Lily cannot
be put back into a mental institution, right, yes, clear
(46:54):
her name. I think that's very important because I here's
my worry. This was the most IT like episode we got.
The kids. The kids are beginning to fight back. The kids.
They're on buy in, they're on bikes, they're doing the thing,
running around confronting uh this force penny Wise directly right
and kind of getting away with it. I worry if
(47:17):
we continue this way and the kids, with Major Hallern's
help or whoever beat penny Wise, that it will like
I think Pennywise is less scary. If he gets beat
by kids multiple times.
Speaker 4 (47:29):
You've got.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
You've got it. You've got to come up with different
like he can't be like he can't get to the
eighties and be like, oh, the kids are plotting against
me again. I've learned nothing from the time they beat
me in the sixties, And that is my one little concern.
Is anybody else concerned about that?
Speaker 3 (47:47):
No, I don't think anyone gets out all. I think
the only people who get alive are the ones we
know get out alive, like the people that are set
up in stories later. I think everybody else is marked
for death. Given the amount of children we've seen on
Missing Posters and Darry both in the movies and here,
and given the fact that we both its early. Yeah,
(48:10):
first of all, yes, can I tell you that it's
so eerie watching the kids be in the hangout and
like like them completely consuming and taking over the spaces
if those other kids had never ever been here? And I.
Speaker 4 (48:23):
Because also have you noticed how they don't really talk
about them anymore? Like before that was the driving factor,
but now it's like they're kind of forgetting that they
ever existed, which does also feel.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Like, how we're gonna I'm not gonna lie.
Speaker 4 (48:37):
I think any Machete, Andy and Barbara, they have done
stuff before that I haven't, you know, enjoyed choices.
Speaker 5 (48:43):
I felt quite brute all and stuff. But I could imagine.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
Them ending this show with Lily in the institute and
no one believing her and everyone else like forgotten about
apart from you know, Will and Handlon and the people who.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
It seems evidently I don't trust the nurse at the top.
I know she was being friendly, but I'm like, I
think this is good.
Speaker 7 (49:02):
She's got even less control than hers. She's just a custodian,
like she's a oh yeah, she's like a janet.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, oh yeah, I uh okay. So Stephen King loves
the janitor, love loves the janitor, and they're usually altruistic,
so maybe I'm on this cross base here. I just
never trust an adult and a Stephen King film either,
and so Mike consent, Yeah, exactly. So I'm worried about
the nurse. I do think that we're going to end
(49:27):
up with a lot of dead kids and we'll see
like how many wise like becomes even stronger at the end,
especially because we're going backwards, like, well, you really want
to see this in like bust out at the end
of this and then figure out like what was he
tinkering with twenty seven years before that? So I'm okay,
the painting and timing is off, but I think it
works in the show's favor.
Speaker 4 (49:46):
Is there a version of this show where it ends
with the Cuba missing missile crisis and then we just
skip backwards.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
The what if? Wait?
Speaker 2 (50:01):
What if they do have an what if the Cuban
missile crisis is a global Pennywise hallucination. I'm never it
never historical happened. It's just like a band of syndrome.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Ya wait, guys, well we're talking about timing. How long
was Lucille in Juniper Hill.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
It feels like two weeks of a week to two weeks.
Speaker 4 (50:29):
She doesn't look too deeply fucked up, and at the
beginning I was really watching those credits when I rewatched
it this morning, and they have like a boy in
an institute getting like labotomized by a bunch of women.
So I think we can assume that if you're there
for a while, you're probably not coming out.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Oh, we didn't even talk about the Madeline Stow character.
Let's talk about the Madeline so character who seems like
a pre loser or like the proto loser like character,
because I do think that this bracelet is whether it's
the same bracelet or it's clearly the inspiration for the
losers later, whether they know it or not.
Speaker 4 (51:06):
Is she somebody who twenty six years ago.
Speaker 5 (51:10):
Had to fight?
Speaker 2 (51:12):
I think yes, she is a survivor of a previous
IT encounter.
Speaker 4 (51:17):
My one believes she has to work as a custodian
in the mental asylum, like they don't really respect at.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
She did keep the brain with the turtle on it,
so that sort of kind of in the loop.
Speaker 2 (51:29):
Okay, So I believe so she must have vital like
information about how you can survive this. And my question is,
I guess has she been Have we missed a reference
to her previously? Just a conversation and we like, there's
(51:50):
no way where we don't get a flashback to who
she is she went through.
Speaker 4 (51:54):
Right, like we have to My guess, as I guess
lost time where I really's dad? Yeah, I think there's
gonna be there's gonna be something to do with Lily Dad,
because she seems she still remembers that even though a
lot of the stuff they kind of seem to forget
in the town. I would also say as well, like
I just think that with Madeline and with after the
(52:19):
flashback that began this episode, which I thought was perfectly timed,
and I was like, I think it's gonna draw in
it people.
Speaker 5 (52:25):
I think we could get a flashback per episode.
Speaker 4 (52:28):
Now, like they established them as these kind of like
a cold open basically, and we're starting to see the
way that for example, the car that they found that
was obviously the car that we saw the kid get
kidnapped into, that was a car that was left over
from when a bunch of bank robbers tried to rob
a bank in Derry and everyone just killed them.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
So I think that it can control.
Speaker 5 (52:48):
The people of Derry and make them behave badly too.
Speaker 2 (52:52):
Yeah, yeah, maybe it made wonder like the the kid
fight that Charlotte sees and we see them on episode two,
is that like is that an echo through time? Did
she really see that? Did that really happen then everybody
looking at her really weird right? Or or did she
(53:14):
see something that happened a while ago. That's part of
like I do wonder how much of what we are
seeing is unreliable narrator anywise, calluci.
Speaker 7 (53:25):
And I love that, That's what I'm saying. I love
that they established that. You know, it makes it so fun.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
This show's fun. It's fun. It is so fun to
talk about any other hanging, predictions, concerns, final thoughts.
Speaker 3 (53:40):
Yeah, I'm really interested in Taylor Page character ms Anlin.
She's married to the major. The more I think, like,
first of all, I think there's levels of brilliance to
this show. Not calling it perfect, not say it's great
show of all time, but like levels of.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
Brilliance as happening here. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (53:59):
Yeah, we we commented on Leroy in episode one and
I said, oh, if he's kind of like naive because
he's got this idea of like, hey, if you follow
all the rules, like America can fix itself. But now
I know Leroy doesn't have a fear response. And then
he's brought his wife and child to a clearly racist
neighborhood where he cannot experience the fear of racism, and
(54:21):
it's constantly denying it.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
And there is.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Something like just as a loud and proud member of
the black community, this is an active thing that happens
frequently is something that's actually happened in my family where
we've integrated spaces, like way early, there's no community and
they're like, this is good. This is like upward movement
and mobility, and you should be grateful to be here.
But that lack of community and support, the ostracization, the
(54:47):
way you already see poor Will in school being ganged up. Immediately,
they're like, do you understand the concept of time? Like
he's an idiot when he's a truly brilliant child, Like
I am so fascinated to see where this story goes,
and I think what Taylor's doing with this ca character. Again,
listen to the podcast Guys official podcast Really Good gives
you a lot of insight. They were talking about how
like her character though written on the page, so much
(55:08):
was discovered when Taylor showed up on set, like the
fact that the Annie said she really came alive during
the dinner scene where she pops up and she measures
her kid after talking about being worried about what's going
on in the South, She's like, you know, boys should
do this, This boy should be measured by She's scattered
and she's all over the place, but she's got this
like great big energy and all this joy and love,
and I'm like, this is a really unique character. I
(55:30):
love her. I can't watch her die. Please don't kill
her off.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
No, no, no, no no.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
But I do want them to explore this thread of like,
you know what, what is fear for black people in America?
What are you without it? Like that is a fascinating threat,
and I'm excited to see them pull at it more.
Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
Good point.
Speaker 2 (55:46):
Well, we'll be covering this show. Very excited to keep
covering it. I have no idea where we're going.
Speaker 4 (55:51):
No, this episode felt so different to me in a
good way, and I'm excited to keep seeing where it
surprises us like that.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
On the next episodes of Extra Vision, we're diving into
Stranger Things to get you ready for the final season
of Stranger Things, starting your starring your favorite thirty five
year old cast members of Stranger Things. That's it for
this episode.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Thanks for listening, Bye bye back x.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepsion and Rosie Knight
and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 4 (56:23):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Our supervising producer is Abuzafar.
Speaker 4 (56:30):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and bay Wag.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (56:38):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and Heidi.
Speaker 5 (56:42):
Our disc called moderate though
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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