December 26, 2024 • 60 mins
Christmas! Get the fireplace ready, pour the hot cocoa, and prepare to succumb to the darkness. We travel to the Carpathian Mountains with Jason, Rosie, and producer Joelle Monique to visit Count Drac…I mean Orlok? The hosts give us their impressions of the fourth and latest Robert Eggers output, Nosferatu. To wrap things up, they each rate the Eggers Movies.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Worrying.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Today's episode contains spoilers for twenty twenty four's Nus far
to a film.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Bye the fuck is his name, Robert?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I guess a film, but I always want to call
him David. I would always want to call him David Edgar,
David Energy. So if you have not seen nus Feritu,
you are completely unaware of the over century year old
story of Dracula by Bram Stoker, then please go watch
(00:35):
any one of those films and including this one, and
then come back, because you're gonna be one.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
My name's Jascons Epsion and.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I'm droasday Night, and.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Welcome back to the extra remage of.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
The podcast where we've dove deep into your rear and
shows those comics of pop culture.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We're coming to you from my Art podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Where we're bringing you one two three episodes a week.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Every Tuesday and Thursday, and an extra episode every Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
In today's episode, we are concluding our Eggs retrospective by
talking about his latest.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Film, her Nospheratu.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
A remake of the nineteen twenty to f Man Now
movie kind of and a remake of every other Dracula
movie definitely, And so we're gonna be breaking down the
creature design. Is it scary? Is the cost good? Is
it sexist?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And a lack of atmosphere that kind of plagues Egger's
latest work. And then in the Omnibus, we're going to
be taking a little journey through our favorite versions of
Dracula and the more classic Dracula origin stories over the years.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But first.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
The Children of the Night, The Child of the Night,
The Children of the Night.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
All right, twenty twenty fours Christmas film for the ages,
Bring the whole family.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
What a year it's going to be at the Where's
your Cinema?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
With this?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And Baby Girl, Baby Who I told you? What was happening?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
The musical sing along on top of it.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I will be there on the first day. I will
be there on Christmas singing along to the Wizard and
I don't come to my screening.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I can't sing.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
We are here, of course, to discuss Robert Erger's newest film,
his latest film that's fair to a universal production, universal
of the Monster Verse?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Where is it? Is it?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Is it coming back like any time?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Is this the soft launch to the Monster Verse? Is
this the way?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Stay tuned, Stay tuned. Okay, we have seen the film, Rosie,
you have recently seen the film. I did see a
film in foggy London town. I did see it there
where this story is sometimes told, Yes, what do we
think of this movie?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Let's talk about it? Should we recap it? Bit? It
feels like if okay.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Let's do like, let's do a speed one where we
can just both interject, because really, if you've seen any
Dracula movie, you have seen this story. Actually, you know
what we should start with, no Sperratu. The nineteen twenty
two original version of Nosperati now s Manow's version, was
a bootleg version of Bramstokers Dracula because they could not
get the rights to make the movie, so they made
(03:49):
a silent film where they changed all the names, filed
the serial numbers off, but it is Dracula. They redesigned
the character. His name was Count Dracula, change to count
or Locke, and they made the movie and then they got,
you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
The nineteen twenties version of Seas.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And Desisted was, and all of the versions of the
movie were bun and one miraculously survived, and the silent
film became the kind of scene as the masterpiece. It
is today through that one reel that survived. So that
is the origin of Nosferatu, which you may be confused
about if you didn't know that when you go and
see this movie and realize it is just Dracula but
(04:27):
by any other name.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So the years eighteen thirty eight were in Germany. A
gentleman who named Thomas, who has just got a job
at a real estate agency and is recently newly married
to his wonderful wife Ellen, has been given the task
of going to Transylvania and meeting with this mysterious Count Orlock,
(04:55):
of an ancient royal lineage excent count. He's an exten
trick man. He would like to retire. He's he's sick
of the Carpathian Mountains in Transylvania, in this whole area,
and he wants to spend his sunset years in sunny Vienna.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Or somewhere in Germany.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, Germany, I have Germany, but they say Germany right.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Unbeknownced to Thomas, his wife but not his boss at
the real estate industy, Count Orlock is a demonic vampire.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Who has been.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Seducing women at long range for a long time using
some sort of magical mystical ability to sense these people
who are sensitive themselves to the occult.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, he's like Charles Xavier of seduction correct sensing a sexy.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Woman who has second science.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And that's right.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
He uses his like vampire cereubros to reach out to
these women and seduce them. And he's found Thomas's wife Ellen,
played by Lilly Rose Depp. And so that's why he
wants to move into their town, into some dilapidated old
mansion whereby he can at close range seduce Ellen, suck
(06:15):
her blood and the cycle continues.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, and kill everyone in the town with the plague.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
He can't wait to do that. Thomas goes out there.
He eventually gets to the castle, where he has a
series of very very troubling encounters, like terrifying encounters with
count Orlock. Meanwhile, his wife back in Ursberg is having
a series of of terrifying nightmares, waking nightmares, night seizures
(06:47):
for which the medical professionals of the day can find no.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Reason. And she's ysthetical class and it fix it.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, too much blot, here's a leech, too much blood
in her system.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Mind, heir, we must bleed her.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
That will you will have that line many times, when
many times Mistame watched this movie.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So count Orlock seals the deal with Thomas, signs the deed. Thomas,
in a fit of the waking fright, realizing that he
is face to face with something he doesn't understand, flees
the castle and washes up somewhere in Transylvania, Romania wherever. Meanwhile,
Orlock boards the ship a Russian ship sails for Germany.
(07:38):
In his pride that because that's how true, because at
some point he escapes the casket of dirt when he
sends his danger around him. The ship washes up in Germany.
Plague spreads through the town. People start dying, and this
sets up the final confrontation between the ancient doctor van Helsing,
(07:59):
who is to consult.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Who in this is called doctor van Franz.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Excuse me, doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Van Franz played by William Dafoe. He comes to consult
with Thomas and his family through his former student, doctor
Wilhelm Savor, who runs the local asylum, and they have
this confrontation and Ellen lures count Orlock in. They Meanwhile,
(08:26):
her husband and doctor von Frantz are destroying his coffin
so he cannot return magically to the dirt of his homeland.
The sun rises, and count Orlock just turns into desiccated,
disgusting bones while getting busy atop young Ellen, who then perishes.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Because of because she has that.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
She sacrificed herself in order to save Germany in the
world from the ravagers of count Orlock.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
And there it is your movie, do we feel you know?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I just want to start by saying right yes, that
I hate that ending so deeply because it is the
biggest diversion from basically every Dracula law where Mina always
survives and Jonathan Harker always dies aka Ellen or Thomas.
I don't have some aversion to women always dying, but
(09:22):
Mina is one of the most fantastic, storied, brilliant final
girls essentially. And I did realize while watching this version
of the movie, how many early tropes for horror this
story does set up, like that feeling of wanting to
yell at Thomas and say, hey, don't go in there.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, like this is I was sitting in.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
This cinema is like a three hundred people's cinema in
Piccadilly Circus in England, where definitely everyone was taking the
movie really seriously, and I was just dying to be
at like Burbank AMC, where I feel like there would
have just been a lot more people who were willing
to be like, bro, what the fuck are you doing
or at least like do like a some kind of
voice reaction. Like I was sitting there the whole time,
(10:07):
just like, oh my god, Thomas, please and yeah. I
just the ending of this movie is really at the
crux of what I think it doesn't understand about Dracula
and Nosferatu and also like the nature of vampirism and
women and sexuality, which is something that even like Bella
Lagosi understood in the thirties when he's talking about you
(10:29):
know his really famous quote where he's like, horror is
for women, like they are the ones who like live
with blood and violence. And I'm paraphrasing, but like that
is so missing from this story. And it's just like
that ending that was when I knew. I was just like,
this isn't for me, even though generally beautiful gowns, beautiful
(10:49):
production design, like it look, it does look nice. Like
I thought that Nicholas Holt was really really fantastic. I
loved Willem Dafoe. He knew he was essentially an howm
a horror movie and did what you should.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Do in a movie like this.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I always love Aaron Taylor Johnson. He always shows up
in a weird role, and in this role he literally
is a necrophiliac, So like, good for him, Like you
got your weird role. But just yeah, that ending, I
feel like, no, it's that that's wrong. I just I don't.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I don't vibe on that ending. And what did you
guys think?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Oh man, I'm really with you. I think okay to
expand on what you were so beautifully laying out about
the ending and a lack of understanding of what makes
the story special, Like if you think about his only
change being like the woman sacrifices herself to save everybody,
it's really a daunting experience. And then have to turn
(11:46):
around to be like, how do I break down and
talk about this movie in a way that sort of
honors the intent? Like I can't understand why this story
is being told this way?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Now, I will just say like in twenty twenty two,
in nineteen twenty two, when they made the original version
of Nos Fratu, it does have an ending where Ellen
essentially like gives her blood to Orlac he dies and
then she kind of like faints and seemingly dies, but
she also doesn't have to like have sex with like
(12:24):
a rotten monster. There's like a lot more dignity in
that sacrifice and a lot more agency than what I.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Feel like we see thing.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
But in this version.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
That thought, like the idea of like what is a
sacrifice and why even is Again, if you're sacrificing, then
there should be like all of this love left behind.
Everybody's pretty much dead at this point, so you're like,
what are we? Who are we doing this? That's a
great points. Like if you think about the original Dracula,
the book comes out like it's talking about a plague
(12:55):
that has hit England and people are literally wasting away
and they are so young, and it's very tragic, and
what if in all of this horror there was some
way to preserve this person and they actually lived on forever.
It would be horrifying, horrible, But you could also understand
the seduction too, Like that back and forth. An element
of reflection on society is sort of an essential element
(13:16):
of Jacula, and all of it is gone here, and
then on top of that, you have a if Mina
is your main character, and the opening scene certainly seems
to set that up. You completely abandon her for about
a third of the movie and then come back and
there is no arc for this is a flatline story
for this girl. She starts aw seduced. She ends maybe
(13:37):
not fully under the spell, maybe sort of recognizing that
she has a choice. But the choice is awful. It's
not well thought out, it's not discussed with anybody, so
you kind of feel like she just took the first
like this is what yees to do. She's like, oh, yeah,
that is what I have to do, and then she
and then she dies and you're like, why am I
watching this movie?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
I would also say as well, like the nineteen twenty.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Two, Like we said, it was a bootleg, right, so
there's a lot of really funny, like just really brief,
unthought out stuff that they were doing because A it
was like an hour long silent movie, and b it
was being done to avoid copyright. So like in that movie,
the reason that she decides that she's gonna do that
is because like somebody's like if a pure hearted woman,
(14:17):
like if he drinks from the neck of a pure
hearted woman, like he will die and all this that
stuff is so outdated. I'm like Robert Eggers, like, could
you not have considered new way? I like, I like
this notion of Ellen as like somebody with a second sight.
But if you're gonna I think that oftentimes with this movie,
there are moments when it could be subversive, and instead
(14:38):
it just leans on already established tropes like the hysterical woman. Yeah,
or there was no exploration of the notion of a
hysterical woman or mental health in that time or anything.
And really, and I will say this was my letterbox review,
and I do think this is the big takeaway head
from this movie. This is just more proof that the
most influential movie of twenty twenty four is Possession, movie
(15:00):
from like thirty years ago that they once again, you know,
we saw it with the first omen, we saw it
in multiple like religious horror, the Sidney Sweety movie, Immacula
and now here where it's very clear that they're showing
these actresses Isabella Johnny's performance, especially when she's you know,
(15:20):
going through the funnel and Possession and they're saying to
them like can you recreate this and honestly, I will
say Lily Rose Depp does insane hysteria, Well, she's me.
I have to say, I was not expecting that. I
I to.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Branch off what y'all have said.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I agree, and I think part of the problem of
the len character for me is that Joelle put her
finger on it. It's a straight line arc. Not only
is it a straight line arc at a certain point
in the story, to me, it feels like a straight
line from before you even meet her, because as you
(16:00):
eventually find out that this she's got, this sensitivity to
the occlultiness has been going on a while, maybe since
she's been a kid, and the fact that she has
I'm fine with her sacrificing herself behind. My issue is
that throughout the film it felt as if she had
no agency, did nothing.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
She always knew she was gonna die.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, had had almost no impact on events. Is just
kind of hearing what her husband and the men are
plotting to do, and hearing what he's planning to do
and just decides, Okay, here's my part to play, and she.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Just accepts it. And I felt, and that was along
with the.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Pacing, is she's just really made for a very frustrating
second half of the movie. I thought, like, listen, Edgar's
visually stunning. I've been calling him desaturated. Terrence Malick, I
love looking at his pictures. I think the first I
think everything from the beginning to the Castle is amazing.
I really liked it. I love the journey of it.
(17:04):
The scope right so well, it's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Terrifying to be in the castle before you really get
to see the monster, and it's that fear of the
imagined and and that stuff is really good.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And it felt like the color palette really worked in
that section of it.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And then it just.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Becomes a slog ping ponging back between scenes that are
just way too long. And unfortunately that part of the movie,
as you mentioned, Rosie, the horror tropes begin emerging, and
when they're happening at that pace good. The thing about
a good horror trope is that you got to slide
(17:47):
it by me, you.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Know, you gotta fasten it by.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Me so hard that, yeah, you're making a statement because
we all love genre film, so this is more like
trying to present them as original when there is no
twist and there is nothing new.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And when the trope is unfolding over the course of
a fifteen minute scene or something there it becomes a song.
And so I think this movie's fine, but like Joelle,
I'm a bit confused as to why it exists.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
That was my biggest that was I actually put that
in our group chat when I got out of it.
Like the movie's fine, I actually didn't hate it.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's I it.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, It's higher up for me than some of his
other movies because just visually I kind of enjoy a
gothic story, So this like hit a bit harder for
me than say The Northman. But I did come out
and I did text you guys and just go why
did he make it? Like I've seen not only have
I seen the nineteen twenty two on and this is
so similar. He did not really make many different choices
(18:46):
apart from this kind of interesting twist of the occult,
which I did enjoy, and Willem Dafoe does a great
job with that version of Van Helsing or Van Franz.
But I've seen the Bernerherzog noos Ferrari, which is one
of my all time favorite movies that I'll talk about later.
But like, I didn't understand the need to remake this
other than just it being something he wanted to do,
(19:08):
I don't necessarily know if it has a reason for existing.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And also, I will say one of the biggest issues I.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Think here, and one of the reasons why there was
ping ponging back between the two spaces doesn't appeal in
the same way as other movies is in the original Dracula,
you have the Carpathian Mountains and Transylvania, which is this
very wild, very incredible or inspiring space that many people
had never really seen before, and then you have Whitby,
which is like a cozy British seaside town. I think
(19:36):
the problem here is Whisper and then Transylvania. They don't
look very different, Like there is not a huge scale
of difference between where Thomas went, but.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
She was able to get really easily.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
On horse in like a couple of days or something,
and then where we are, So there isn't this kind
of dichotomy or juxtaposition of esthetic or even really vibe
like visperg fucking sucks and the Kapathian Mountains fucking suck,
like if you live there, not visually visually. I love
a little wintry space, but yeah, it was definitely in
(20:10):
that kind of like beautiful gowns kind of space, like, oh,
it looks nice, but am I feeling anything like I did?
And also I did see a really good meme that
somebody had made where they were like, I'm sorry, Robert Eggers,
but this casting doesn't work for me, referring to Lily
Rose depth because they were like, I know those eyes
(20:30):
have seen an air.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
On and I was like, you know what, They're not wrong.
Like every time I saw the one.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Thing I do I love something, I will say that
I loved about the way they dressed her and did
her costuming and her wig. She has a very high
forehead and when they would shoot her from the side,
she kind of has this peeking forehead with this very
severe black hair. And there were moments where I was like, Okay,
I get it, like this is kind of new Gothic,
like you're leaning into the tropes but showing more. But
(21:00):
in the end it did feel to me like more
of a kind of an experiment for him that didn't
have anything to say, and also like didn't really reposition itself.
In the case of how Ellen was treated in the
original Nosferatu or in the context of how women understand
Dracula now and how like a movie even for example,
(21:21):
like nineteen ninety two is another movie I'll talk about
Bram Stokers Dracula Francis for cople of picture, but like
also as well, like yeah, that is a movie that
deeply innately understood the relationship between like vampires and sex.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
The subduction, Yeah, the seduction. We'll be right back after
a quick break and we're back.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
What did you guys think of that? Because I felt like, here,
there's no seduction.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I thought that there was a cool early in the film.
I thought there was this really cool dynamic that was
emerging that was like almost this was almost a class story.
This is a story about a working class guy who
needs money. He's borrowed money from his rich friend. He
desperately takes this job where he encounters this rich lord
(22:19):
who wants to fuck his wife, and he's gunnap no
matter what, no matter what.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
This guy's really interesting read.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I like that indecent proposal gothic site.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And so there was a there was a an hour
or so where I'm like, oh, this is actually kind
of interesting, like that take, and then that just kind
of goes away, and it does become this really ham
fisted seduction story that feels as if it just didn't
it didn't work because one, there's there's none of the
(22:51):
sexiness or the sensuality to your shooting overlock in shadow
the whole time in the side of frames, out of
the corners of.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Characters get detail.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
He is like rotting.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So it's like, what is the thing? What is this?
Where is what is the thing? Obviously he's got a
magical power, I get it, but like, take me into
that what is that?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
What is that? What is that thing?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And I and it's and it's completely not there are.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Supposed to be. Okay, let's let's hybrid Rosy's point with
Jason's point. There should be a dichotomy between the men.
If you're if you're our main female lead, you got
two choices. I mean, let's let's be real. Okay, Listen,
the romanticy is here where it's in full effect, and
to not tap into it at all in this storyline
(23:42):
is like bananas, Like she is so in love with her,
Like Jason, your point, the opening is so like their
relationship is so cute. Immediately, like I root for this couple.
I really want them to win.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
He is so supportive of her troubles and want to
know their new root for them. And there's also the
one thing I do think is interesting is there are
these moments of impropriety, whether it's between Thomas and Ellen
or whether it's between the harding that Aaron Taylor Johnson's
character and his wife played by Emma Correy, who we
(24:15):
recently saw as a As soon as I saw her,
I was like, oh, it's Cassandra Nova Paul Wolverine. But
they have these moments of great impropriety where they're they're
lust sort of. They're out in public and they're not
supposed to kiss and they go, oh, but I can't
resist you. And her and Thomas we get these moments where.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
They are actually she's sexually attracted to him. She pulls
him back into bed like there isn't that I feel
like usually like Jonathan Harker is this safe, sensible choice
and he will victory for Victorian era man obviously played
by Keanu Reeves very repressed.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
The longing, the no touching, the propriety in society, all
necessary element missing.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Dracula repris sense this man who will go to the
end of the Earth for you? Who is this who
is exciting? He's Heath Clip exactly. And this movie sets
up the Thomas and Ellen relationship really well. But then,
like you say, Joelle does not have that dichotomy, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Thought, for and like I knew, to be fair, I
knew we were sort of in trouble from the get
go because I was like, if this is a story,
if you're modernizing the story, I thought, for a second,
we'd be like, there's this old, creepy dude grooming this
young woman and offering what looks like liberation, but there's
really a trap to live under his thumb that gets
(25:37):
abandoned so fast, and it's it's not presented in maybe
the best way or like in reality, like this is
a real thing that happens to a lot of people.
There's a lot of stories out there about it that
you could tap into, and none of that sort of happens.
And so because there's not that dichonomy between your two
leading dudes, and because it's all sort of just like,
(25:57):
there's no element of you that is like, oh nos,
forrat too is a space that I want to be in.
I would want to live internal life like that, like
he's rotting, engrossed as opposed to like Regal and Swab.
But even that rounding grossness could have effect, like this
is a monster movie. It could have been like so
creepy and like Ghoulie and stuff. But really it's just
kind of gross, And I don't really for somebody who's
(26:18):
so tapped into the history of these narratives and how
they impacted people in the day, like it seems like
that's a huge thing to like a swing and a
miss on, like how this movie is going to connect
to audiences and it it didn't really work for me.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
If it's a ninety minute movie, I think, I think
it's a much better movie.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I agree, I think I think if you shorten it,
I think it's a lot punchier.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
I also think that the creature design for.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
All Lock needed a few more it was. It did
not work for me, especially because I think we've seen
Bill Scarsgard do such incredible creature work prosthetics work in it,
you know, and to see him here, he's almost he's
lost under the prosthetics. There's not a lot of facial expression.
The best prosthetic at creature work is all on his back.
Which is when we kind of see that he's rotting
(27:12):
and gross and maggot filled. And the truth is, I look,
there are a huge contingent of monster fuckers, right, and
there are people who want to fuck every kind of monster.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And I am inspired and think it.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Is a cool idea to do a truly horrific monster
fucker where the monster is really monstrous. But there is
nothing here that shows us any reason why she would
want to be with him. There's a moment early on,
again like talking about that good first hour, there's a
moment early on where she tells Thomas about a dream
she had where she gets to the altar. She thinks
(27:48):
they're going to get married, but it's not him, it's
death and she should be horrified and she turns around
and everyone she knows is dead, but instead of being horrified,
she is so excited and happy than she's ever been.
I thought that was really interesting. I'm like, is this
an exploration of depression? Is this about the freedom of
wanting to not be in this world where she is
(28:09):
not understood in her powers, as seen as a cuss
and she is always being thrown with institutionalization. I thought
that was so many interesting threads, but I did feel
like by the end of the movie they were more
of a fluke than anything intentional.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Something definitely was missing because the lass romantic interaction we
have between husband and wife is so bizarre, Like I
was really trying to understand, like it's somewhat violent, it's
like they're missing each other emotionally. You're just like, why
what has led to this interaction between these two characters.
(28:46):
And I think that maybe there was something they we're
trying to say that just got lost in the translation,
because I don't think that there's a sexual repression around her,
like we see that she's sort of allowed to just
be who she wants to be and run around. I agree,
I hear's the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Here's the thing I think it was Joelle to your point,
and Rosie you mentioned that really rose up as a
face that's seen in Arowon. I think that to me
what they were I've picked up on that as well.
And to me, the thing that Eggers I think was
trying to show was that these people in the past,
(29:21):
they're as smart as us, they have the same emotions
as us, they have the same problems. Here is this
couple that would have been right at home in Silver Lake,
going to Arowon but here in eighteen thirties Germany. And
they relate to each other in the same way that
a modern communicative couple that is a partnership would relate
(29:42):
to each other, only in this context.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And see how different it is.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And I thought that was kind of where it was going, because, yeah,
the way they communicate, the way he listens to her
and her troubles and is concerned and is trying to find.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
A solution with her, not like outside of her, like.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's very modern in that that relationship is extremely modern,
especially when contrasted with Aaron Taylor Johnson's marriage, which is
just like keep having the kids.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I'm going to go to work and.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Call your hair up for four hours.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I'll call on you when I need sex, and that's
about it, you know. And so and then that was
that part of it was very interesting and kind of
worked for me before they kind of went away from that.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, it's interesting because now we're talking about it, there's
all these different threads, Like you were talking about Jason,
like the class aspect and then Joelle the grooming aspect
and these kind of explorations. But it was almost like
the ideas were all there and then eventually it kind
of went away.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
And I look, I get it.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Some people are going to say, well, why does it
need to be about anything other than a vampire who
is like killing people because this story has been told
five thousand Actually, like, I love a thoughtless horror movie.
I watched so many slashes. I watch so many bad movies.
I watch so many movies that have a straight down
the line plot, but you know what, they don't proclaim
(31:14):
to be any kind of artistic achievement. And also, even
though sometimes they definitely are, also like often they do
have a twist or something different, something they're trying to do.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
And I think that with this, I don't feel like it.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Achieves a new reading that makes it that proves its
reason for existence when there are literally, like so many
other remakes of both Dracula and Nosferartu. Yeah, so I
think that it's interesting because there are so many cool
ideas that are seeded in that first hour, but by
the time you get to the second hour, I don't
(31:51):
think they pay off.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I was gonna ask if this is Egger's worst cast film.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I actually don't know. I think this is actually I
think this is a well cast film, and I like
the cast I like.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I just think for me, I felt like.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Everyone was in a different movie. That was the issue
I have.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
But I felt like most of them they were pretty good.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, they'll be a directing issue if you cast not harmonious. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Willem Dafoe, he's in like a campy hammer horror movie
and I love that film. Aaron Taylor Johnson, he's in
like a Jane Austin Pride.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
And he's a villain, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And you know, Thomas and Nicholas Holt and Liley rose
Deep are in this more kind of progressive modern reading
of like what would it really be like to exist
in these times? And are these people just the same
as us? But I don't necessarily found that it gelled
well together. My biggest casting issue I think that Renfield or.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
In this who is the they make him the kind.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Of real estate her not.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, that for me was a miscasting just in or
a misdirection. There was something about it that didn't hit
when usually that, to me, is such a powerful and
terrifying character.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Stories, Joe al tell us, what was wrong with the
cost in your mind?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Okay, so a lot of people really love what Lily
Rose dep did. I think that she is giving her
all to these moments, but that does not a performance
make maybe this she's a very young actress. This is
not a well written part. But just from a choices perspective,
I think she doesn't lend a lot of opportunity to
(33:26):
give like a second layer of just performance, and that
to me is difficult when ostensibly she's the lead. Although
you could argue this is actually Nicholas Holt's movie.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I would say he is the lead, like honestly, because
we leave her behind for so.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Long, and we do spend a great deal of time
with him, but to be fair, then we leave him
behind for a long time, and so it's just it's
kind of a hot mess all over the place with
just whose story is this and who are we following?
I also think as good a job as Aaron Taylor
Johnson does, this poor costume designer was working her ass
off trying to hide that body. She was like, this
body does not belong in Victoria Times Giant.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
This man's been he's walking on the MCU diet. Baby,
he's been lifting five hundred pounds a day. Like it
is so huge.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's huge in this movie, Like you do not look
like the I mean you work at the shipyard, but
you're not the one lifting the crates to own it,
like what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
The truth is I did. I did really like the performance,
and I thought him and emmacuren was an interesting counterpoint.
But if we're talking about that ninety minute movie, you could.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Have just caught them out.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
They actually really needed in any way shape.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Or for especially if you're not going to dive into
the redive into the class aspect, because you know that
has some juice. The fact that that Thomas owed Aaron
Taylor Johnson's character so much money I thought was interesting.
I will say that all of to me, I could
I think that Lily Rose Up was good, and she
(34:50):
oppressed me a little bit. I will just say that
I think for somebody who's maybe not there's not a
lot of story here for people to bite into. And
I think that to me is like a lot of
the Eggers. Thing is great vibes, incredible visuals, but always always,
always just a little thin on story. Obviously, I think
(35:10):
the Lighthouse is.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Like on like hot, not hot, like oh it has
to be nice, but like layers, like there's there's a
complexity that is missing in most of these films.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
The which nothing happens. Some people like it.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I'm saying it, Jason.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Disagree, hard disagree, but respect. I'm that's okay. Nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
The Lighthouse Good The Northman adapted from Hamlet nos Feritu
adapted from one hundred and two year old movie, which
is in itself adapted from a novel. I'm not sure
story is really his strong point. And Joelle like he
has said things to that regard, where it's just like
you get got a cool idea and just shoot it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Up pretty much. He was like, you're your sound should
be passable. You're you know, He's like, other than that,
as long as you have a haltycent story, you're pretty
much ready to go. So that's that's sort of like
where he's at in his bag. Wise and listen, I
think that's okay. I really I have a theory. Okay.
So Egress has this idea of a dollhouse, which he
(36:11):
talks about in The Witch. He builds this really intense cabin.
They spend a lot of time just looking at the
cabin and making it feel like really impressive and and
sort of showcasing how these people are out castking. Okay,
lighthouse is self explanatory. That's the dollhouse. It's the lighthouse.
It's all kind of set up. You get the full
of the for opening, like two minutes of that shot
in the Northman, suddenly no dollhouse. You're just open in wilderness.
(36:33):
There's a couple of different stage sets here, but it's
so open, so nebulous, so many additional people. And that's
I think where he starts to lose his footing. I
think he's in his bag and knows s Faratu in
that freaking castle. And we mentioned it a lot, but
what makes that castle scene so good is maddeningly disorienting,
like you're going up the stairs or following somebody and
(36:55):
then somewhere completely different. He can't get out. Well, the
angles are strange.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
The lights are only firelight. But he is always in shadow.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Another thing I will say that I loved, and obviously
this is taken from that very famous moment in the
original Nosferatu, but he does this thing with shadow where
like at the beginning especially he shows well act like
it's like he's the shadow behind the curtain, but when
the curtain blows away, he's there. So it's like you said, Joel,
I think you're right. The intimacy of a scene or
(37:28):
a space can really work in his favor with that
dollhouse technique. But when he spreads it out and you're
suddenly in five six different locations, you don't necessarily get
that magic all the time. It becomes very spread out.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
There's a layer of creating an atmosphere that's just gone.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah, okay, so let's do it because we've already had
the disagreements have already begun, Joel, what are you rank
Robert Eggers movies?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Okay, and give them a letter grade? Okay, okay, okay,
including uh no to me, the Witch is in a
I disagree that nothing happens. I think you're watching a
family completely turn on an individual member, and it's haunting
and horrifying and I love it. Okay. My next favorite
is The Northman. I'm gonna give it a C plus.
(38:12):
Here's why I like The Northman better than The Lighthouse.
Lighthouse is so disgusting. It's really a challenge it. It's
so disturbing to watch. It's very disgusting. Also, watching people
fight gives me anxiety belly, and I'm like, I just
don't know if I can do this. I will say
The Lighthouse is a better film than The Northmen. I
would give it a B plus maybe actually maybe like
a low A like the cinematography that movies off the chain.
(38:35):
And then yeah, my least favorite is No Saratu. I
just found it really challenging to connect with the story.
I don't like the creature design work at all, complete
waste of Bill Scar's guard icon and makeup total total,
and I just don't think it works on the horror
or romance or a creepy seduction factor or stylistically, We're
(38:59):
gonna talk about our favorite jacque Is coming up, but
all of them have such an intense visual style that
I really think that if your style is I'm want
to be grounded in reality, doesn't it work for this story?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah? Also as well, like a style that has also
been done in the past by having like this just
replicate kind of old movie aesthetics.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's that's my ranking. What about you, Rosie?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Okay, So Lighthouse for me, that's an A plus movie.
I think it's like a masterpiece.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I love it. I saw it on the big screen.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
It's fantastic, unbelievable performance is incredibly strange.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Just nothing else like it.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
A cosmic horror that isn't from Lovecraft, which is so rare.
It's an A plus movie for me. This is going
to be very controversial, but honestly, I actually think like
the drop off is so big for me after the Lighthouse,
the next three are probably like interchangeable. I would say
currently probably recently biased because I do think it looks nice.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Nosferatu is like a B minus for me.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yes, so nos too is probably actually currently my second
preferred Eggles movie, though I do think the Droppers that
I think the drop off for me is just too big.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
I really disliked The Northman.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
It just didn't work for me at all. But I
did enjoy this movie to a point. Then I would
say The Witch, which I love the last thirty minutes
of the Witch, but I don't love the Witch. I
don't disagree with Jason that the Witch has issues with pacing.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
I think the best part.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Of the Witch is Black Philip. I also have a
fantastic friend. Black Philip's incredible, and I obviously ANNIEA. Taylor
Joy is also incredible. I love that line. I am
that Witch. But I also have a really brilliant friend
who's a cultural critic who I worked and a comic
book historian who I worked in Orbital Comics within London
called Adam Karena and the Sheriff. And when The Witch
(40:57):
came out, Adam was like, there an inherent misogyny in
making a movie about a time when women were persecuted
for made up crimes, essentially being witches. And they were
across the globe which just like wiped out, like they're
being tortured, they're being burnt at the steak. And then
(41:18):
nowadays men make movies and they're like, oh, actually they
were witches. And I was like, I was like that ship,
it's so fucking deep.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
That's a really poignant thought. My counter to that is
you drive us to madness, like these crazy things drive
people to do insane shit. But I also hear, I
hear that.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
No, No, I agree with that, and so yeah, The
Witch for me is probably like a C plus, and
then The Northman for me is a D. Even though
I love I love Nicole Kidman and I love Mother
Alex Scott's God, but it just did not work for me.
I've seen Conan the Barbarian before, guys, like I've read Ambler.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
It just it just wasn't enough for me. Jason, how
about you?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I am going to go the Lighthouse, which I think
is in a minus. I think, you know, my biases
are going to show here. But it's the one Eggers
movie that's funny and and I like that. I think
it's two wonderful performances in like an all hander for
the Age is visually so crazy and weird. I feel
(42:22):
like Eggers should consider more black and white work, since
he seems to hate colors so so much. Think about
it like this was the grayscale. The richness of the
black and white was absolutely compelling. Then I am going
to go, and I agree with Rosie. I feel the
same in that after the Lighthouse it drops off pretty
(42:43):
precipitously for me. I am going to go. Uh Nos
fair too as a C minus. First half of the
movie I enjoyed. I think there are some interesting ideas
here that just ultimately don't that it needed to stay
in the oven for like another hour and a half
and come together more. Then I am going to go.
(43:06):
You know, I've slagged it a lot, but I'm gonna say,
I'm going to say The Witch as a again, he
hasn't really made a bad movie. It's just also like
a C minus, but like somehow a C minus below
the C minus of The Northman. You know, Anya Taylor
Jory gives a mesmerizing performance.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
She's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
There is.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
There is real value to be had in creepiness, and
I think this is a movie, along with like The
Baba Duck and other movies from that era, that brought
creepiness back.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
And I think that an atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Atmosphere and creepiness is really important in horror movies. And
to capture that, even though to me the pacing was
not there, Like there is that creepiness and I think
that was cool.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Then I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Go The Northmen. It's like a D plus C minus.
Great performances again, and I was troubled by the decision.
You know, it's like weird to me. White supremacists love
this movie.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Also historically inaccurate to actually have a movie with the
white vikings.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Just saying.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I have also seen Conan the Barbarian. You know, I've
seen many adaptations of Hamlet, and.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
It was one of those movies that left me feeling
like what are we trying to say here?
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Which is often the thing I'm trying to figure out
with Beggars, like well, okay, what's.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Going to that? Like other than like Vibe and Alexanderscard's
cards looked hot fighting on the side of a volcano
of hot correct, his lats were fucking incredible.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
When he's like doing the opening shot when he's like
half naked with the acts, ye.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Throws it back. Yeah, And that was a movie too.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Where like similarly to some of my critiques about Out
That's fair too, I think that there was like a
really interesting thing about cycles of trauma in this movie.
Here is this young man who is traumatized, and in
so doing his tormentors have created the next generation of
traumatizers and tormentors. You know, this cycle continues again in
(45:20):
an idea that's there and seed form and then is
kind of abandoned. And so you know, I would give
I would give the Viking like a D plus. D
D plus is like a passing price, right, like a
D Yeah, excuse me, the Northman, So I would give
that like a D plus. But the but the Lighthouse,
to me, his best movie.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
I just think it's it's like a masterpiece. I think
you're right. I think the humor actually, I'm glad you
brought that out, because the humor in the Lighthouse I love.
I quote it all the time. I'm always talking about
people eating the lobsters and like and all that kind
of funny ship. But also it's not in this movie.
So often I was just like, is there no jokes?
(46:04):
I was like, is there not a single joke in Nosferatu? Like,
is there not snuck in a couple of he comes
in at the end. Then suddenly they're like, Okay, this
is the kind of ship that I'm looking for. Like
I'm a horror lover, I'm a bram Stokers Dracula lover.
There could be moments of levity, doesn't have to be
full on camp, but this was like so stone called
(46:27):
severe that I think when Williem Defoe came on, he
just like bright and the screen. I just I couldn't
the version of this where it's one France.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
You know that interesting house in space is more interesting
visually than almost everything else we get in the film.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Very short backstory where we learn he was essentially pushed
out of scientific circles because he was seen as an occultist,
Like that is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Even when in the visual details like when we first
see him like strange I was coat and there's like
a puff of dust rises off of it. You're like,
oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
And also he's like literally they walk in and he's
trying to do alchemy, like he's literally trying to make gold.
That is so interesting and complex and strange. And I
think that is where Eggers is so strong. And I
think also that's that moments of Thomas in the Castle
with Orlac, Like there is that strangeness, that scariness, that horror,
(47:27):
that weirdness. He's so great in those moments, and I
think some of the other period aspects they just don't
hit for me in the same way that they hit.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
For other people, like with the Witch or with with this.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Because i'ms my gut says, this is probably going to
be another kind of scene as a return to form
after The Northman, which didn't necessarily perform in the way
that studios were expecting.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, okay, well, let's take a break to you know,
send out our magic sensory feelers to any of the
sensitive magic sensitives out there so that we can suck
their blood and their life essences and steal everything from them.
When we come back, we are going to talk about
(48:12):
our favorite Draculas, favorite Tracula stories, favorite Dracula films.
Speaker 5 (48:16):
You're right back after this, and we are back.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
We're back.
Speaker 5 (48:31):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Dracula.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Yes, Dracla.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
We're talking Dracula origins. No, you know, no son of Dracula,
no bride of Dracula.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
And none of that Twilight like centric.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
This is Dracula specific, based on the Dracula book by
Bram Stokers Dracula.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Here are our favorites, Joel, would you like to go first?
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, I'm gonna say one. That's probably all of ours.
Bram Stoker's Dracula nineteen eighty version isational. I remember seeing
this in production design, I mean productions. Off the chain.
There is a shot where there's like the chain train
in the foreground and like the map of London in
the back and the hand outstretching and oh my gosh.
(49:16):
But then when you get to Jacco's cats, it's all
red velvet and sensual women. The bisexual energy is off the.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Charting, the costume, the uh, the armor that he wears
that looks like it is the inside of his muscle.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
It's so good, so red, Oh my god, so good.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Everything about this movie slaps in his you know, in
his old form where he's looking like a like a
regal like vampire mister burns, like yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
They never forget that, the instantly unforgettable bot hair where
it's like yeah, still talk. My nephew was literally talking
about the other day because we watched the episode of
How Simpsons you know Treehouse that's so so good.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
And prime Keanu reeves classic right and went on a writer,
this is wonderful.
Speaker 4 (50:10):
You want to go one for one or just do
all of the miner row.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Let's do all of them in a row. Okay, yeah, okay,
three three three, just three controversial opinion. I'm going okay
two thousand and four Van healthing Hell.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
You know what, people come here for the unexpected takes.
They look Jason might be a classic. They know they
know that if I'm on the show, there's gonna be
some weird picks, So don't absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
I will say that, I will say that I love it.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I will say that I think before I before you
continue that I think this is one of the ugliest
films ever made.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
But I can go.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Like Nightmarriage Zero's horror Estate.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
But us, why tell us? Why I speak to you? Okay,
if you haven't seen Van Heusing, imagine Hugh Jackman in
a cowboy slash musical esque variety show chaos an inscription
it is Jacula from Van Housing's POV. So you're getting
like we're unting the vampires. It feels like a set,
(51:22):
like like a time not in the classic way of
like the nineteen thirties style movies where you're like, Wow,
this is beautiful. It feels like those are some extra
sets at the MGM lot and they made it work.
But it's so funny and I really like part of
it is absolutely nostalgia. But there's just a part of
me that in two thousand and four was like, how
was I then? I would been fifteen. Yeah, I was
(51:45):
just very into this movie. I was like, the vibes
are immaculate. It's kind of creepy, it's kind of goffey,
it's kind of romantic. There's a lot of hot people here.
It's fun, but it's also kind of true to the narrative.
They don't take that many liberties with the story. So
if you're about it, like maybe their weaponry is a
little more advanced, you get like bow shoes. It's very dark.
It's very dark. Soul's in fluence.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Yeah. I feel like there's gonna be a Van heusing
like recon reconsideration soon because I feel like, aesthetically this
looks like what Universal used as the inspiration for that
new park they're doing. That's like dark yeah us, and
it's very like you're on a film set of eighteen
(52:28):
hundreds Germany, but it's a little bit modern and there's
a little bit of like a little bit more edge
and a little bit more like cool design. And I
really feel like immediately when I started to see the
designs coming out of Dark Universe, which is going to
be part of the Epic Universe parks, I was like, Oh,
I feel like somebody watched Van Housing, so I love
that picture.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
Oh that was incredible.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
What's your last ing?
Speaker 1 (52:50):
I'll just go with the classic Nosperrato. If you haven't
seen it, it's man, it extremely holds up lighting wise,
you're just gonna be It's like watching Cabin of Calgary,
where you're just like, yeah, this is uh, I can't
believe someone made this so long ago, while filmmaking must
really be inherent in our blood, Like what could I
be doing with this level of just like basic skills
(53:13):
in filmmaking to make something this tightens and this artistic,
in this beautiful and truly like I wasn't sure how
I was going to receive silent fills. My dad found
like ripped a copy of the Internet when I was
thirteen because I was like, I have to see this
movie everyone's talking about, and I was blown away by
it remained blown away by it. So I would highly
recommend watching the original Astrauato. What about Rosie? You want
(53:36):
to go next?
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, well, so one of mine was going to be
Brown Stoker is Dracula. I just I totally agree with you.
I think it's fantastic. I rewatch it all the time.
It's way too long in the best way. The costume
designs are like impeccable, the Oscar winning costume designs, and
I mean I even have a hat that celebrates the
costume designs winning an Oscar. So I have a hat
(54:00):
from Superachi that says and the winner of best costume
design is Eco Ishioca for Bramstoga's Dracula. And I have
actually visited her Oscar that is in the Academy Museum
because I just think they're so perennial.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
I didn't commit to buying the three hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Full size armor bag that I saw a place made
recently that was super cool, So that was gonna be
one of my I'm also gonna go for Dracula nineteen
thirty one, but not the bell Lagosi version, which I
do love, but because the secret of the nineteen thirty
one Dracula made by Universal is that at night they
(54:39):
filmed a Spanish language version, same script, completely different casts,
same sets or Spanish language.
Speaker 4 (54:46):
It was very hard to find for a very long.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
Time, but now it just plays constantly on the Universal
Monsters channel. They have a great rip of it. And
I've just been completely obsessed with this kind of duel
movie making history that they chose to do there to
just you know, appeal to a wider audience, something they're
not even doing now, you know. And they were doing
that in nineteen thirty one. So that movie is incredible.
(55:09):
The guy who plays Dracula is like, so not Bela Lagosi.
It's incredible. That's definitely worth checking out. I love that version.
I love the bel Lagosi version too, I'm a big
bell Lagosi stan But my favorite version probably no surprise,
as it's well known that I love Verna Herzog, but
the nineteen seventy nine Verna Hazog version of Nosferatu, which
(55:31):
I do think is the best version of Dracula or
nos Faratu, with klaus Kinski as Nosferatu and Isabella Johnny
actually in the Mina Harker role, and that sticks to
the more classic Dracula ending where it's about Jonathan dying
and Mina surviving, and I just think it's such a
beautifully rendered movie.
Speaker 4 (55:48):
It's so tragic.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
Even though the design of klaus Kinski's Nosparatu is very
similar to the classic design, very ugly, very horrifying, not
the suave bel Lagosi version, he still is sensual and tragic.
He emost so hard. There are even just photographs from
that film where you can feel this kind of wrenching
(56:09):
sadness and heartbreak. And also something that came to me
a lot during watching nos Ferratu twenty twenty four was
like there's no color, There was no It was this
idea of like bleached out everything, which can work in
certain ways. We talked about Sleepy Hollow, the Timberton movie.
There are ways you can use gradients of gray and
white and blacks that can be very affecting, and obviously
(56:30):
just shooting black and white is one of those options,
like Eggs did.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
With the Lighthouse.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
But Herzogs Nosferatu is actually incredibly colorful, and I feel
like that adds to that kind of the surreal nature
of when Nosferatu arrives and the difference between daytime and
night time. Egg's Nosferratu is like, when she's out in
the daytime, it's horrible and bleak, and when it's nighttime
it's horrible and bleak. I think there's a duality and
(56:56):
that kind of juxtaposition with Herzog's Nosphratu that is just
so fantastic, And obviously every time him and Kinski wack together,
it's a masterpiece because they were like the ultimate for enemies.
So those of mind Jason wore about.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yours mine are.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
I'm gonna go first with Dracula nineteen seventy nine. Dracula,
I'm so glad you love the story so starring Frank
Langella as the extremely suave handsome and charming Count Dracula,
incredible cast, Lawrence Olivier is how crazy, aging Van helsing,
Donald pleasants doing this now now Donald Pleasant's thing, and
(57:36):
just a operatic romantic like you feel like Dracula kind
of falls in love in this movie and he is
a monster, but like you, it's this depiction of Dracula
as like this basically less love bomb monster who really
does fall in love with his victims. Tremendously, such a
(57:56):
stylistically pleasing movie too, Like every time you watch it
you just want to be that, you want to.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
Be Yea, it looks great.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
The castle is creepy but looks great, and just a
wonderful movie with wonderful performances.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
Then I'm gonna go I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Echo Joel here the original nus Fair two nineteen twenty two.
F Now, I mean, like it's just stunning.
Speaker 3 (58:18):
Still best boot like ever made. So proud of him.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
It is incredible. You can't believe. It's not like a
technical achievement on the level of like you know, Citizen
Kane or anything. But you can't believe that they created
these effects, They created this atmosphere. There is no sound
like it is immensely, immensely creepy and a wonderful achievement.
(58:46):
And then next TI, I'm gonna go this is we
all got one cheat version, and this is my cheat version,
two thousand, Shadow of the Vampires. Love William Defoe, legend Williams.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
So this movie, which is super super fun.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
It's like a it's like a behind the scenes of
the nineteen twenty.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
Two nos Feratu.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
You're watching FW Murnau create this movie and all the
issues and troubles he's got trying to wrangle the actors
and get everything to work.
Speaker 1 (59:20):
And he's got this star who.
Speaker 2 (59:23):
Played by Willem Dafoe, who is very mysterious and is
maybe a real vampire, like it's unclear, And it's such
a fun take on it.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
John Malkovich plays the director.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Did John Malcavinci as like an absolute terror of a director.
Is a wonderful film and a really cool twist on
the Dracula origin story. A great movie that's worth your time.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
Such a good great list, guys.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
So yeah, wonderful lists all around.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
We're gonna be back again this week Tuesday for a
recap of Skeleton Crew one oh five, and then Thursday
We're looking ahead at the films, the TV shows, the
video games we're most excited for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
That's it for this episode, Thanks.
Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
For good bye.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kenseepsion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer
is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurn and
Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi on Discoll Moderata
Worrying.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Today's episode contains spoilers for twenty twenty four's Nus far
to a film.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Bye the fuck is his name, Robert?
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I guess a film, but I always want to call
him David. I would always want to call him David Edgar,
David Energy. So if you have not seen nus Feritu,
you are completely unaware of the over century year old
story of Dracula by Bram Stoker, then please go watch
(00:35):
any one of those films and including this one, and
then come back, because you're gonna be one.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
My name's Jascons Epsion and.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
I'm droasday Night, and.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Welcome back to the extra remage of.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
The podcast where we've dove deep into your rear and
shows those comics of pop culture.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
We're coming to you from my Art podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Where we're bringing you one two three episodes a week.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Every Tuesday and Thursday, and an extra episode every Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
In today's episode, we are concluding our Eggs retrospective by
talking about his latest.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
Film, her Nospheratu.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
A remake of the nineteen twenty to f Man Now
movie kind of and a remake of every other Dracula
movie definitely, And so we're gonna be breaking down the
creature design. Is it scary? Is the cost good? Is
it sexist?
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
And a lack of atmosphere that kind of plagues Egger's
latest work. And then in the Omnibus, we're going to
be taking a little journey through our favorite versions of
Dracula and the more classic Dracula origin stories over the years.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
But first.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
The Children of the Night, The Child of the Night,
The Children of the Night.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
All right, twenty twenty fours Christmas film for the ages,
Bring the whole family.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
What a year it's going to be at the Where's
your Cinema?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
With this?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
And Baby Girl, Baby Who I told you? What was happening?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
The musical sing along on top of it.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I will be there on the first day. I will
be there on Christmas singing along to the Wizard and
I don't come to my screening.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I can't sing.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
We are here, of course, to discuss Robert Erger's newest film,
his latest film that's fair to a universal production, universal
of the Monster Verse?
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Where is it? Is it?
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Is it coming back like any time?
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Is this the soft launch to the Monster Verse? Is
this the way?
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Stay tuned, Stay tuned. Okay, we have seen the film, Rosie,
you have recently seen the film. I did see a
film in foggy London town. I did see it there
where this story is sometimes told, Yes, what do we
think of this movie?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Let's talk about it? Should we recap it? Bit? It
feels like if okay.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Let's do like, let's do a speed one where we
can just both interject, because really, if you've seen any
Dracula movie, you have seen this story. Actually, you know
what we should start with, no Sperratu. The nineteen twenty
two original version of Nosperati now s Manow's version, was
a bootleg version of Bramstokers Dracula because they could not
get the rights to make the movie, so they made
(03:49):
a silent film where they changed all the names, filed
the serial numbers off, but it is Dracula. They redesigned
the character. His name was Count Dracula, change to count
or Locke, and they made the movie and then they got,
you know whatever.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
The nineteen twenties version of Seas.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And Desisted was, and all of the versions of the
movie were bun and one miraculously survived, and the silent
film became the kind of scene as the masterpiece. It
is today through that one reel that survived. So that
is the origin of Nosferatu, which you may be confused
about if you didn't know that when you go and
see this movie and realize it is just Dracula but
(04:27):
by any other name.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
So the years eighteen thirty eight were in Germany. A
gentleman who named Thomas, who has just got a job
at a real estate agency and is recently newly married
to his wonderful wife Ellen, has been given the task
of going to Transylvania and meeting with this mysterious Count Orlock,
(04:55):
of an ancient royal lineage excent count. He's an exten
trick man. He would like to retire. He's he's sick
of the Carpathian Mountains in Transylvania, in this whole area,
and he wants to spend his sunset years in sunny Vienna.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Or somewhere in Germany.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Yes, Germany, I have Germany, but they say Germany right.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Unbeknownced to Thomas, his wife but not his boss at
the real estate industy, Count Orlock is a demonic vampire.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Who has been.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Seducing women at long range for a long time using
some sort of magical mystical ability to sense these people
who are sensitive themselves to the occult.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah, he's like Charles Xavier of seduction correct sensing a sexy.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Woman who has second science.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
And that's right.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
He uses his like vampire cereubros to reach out to
these women and seduce them. And he's found Thomas's wife Ellen,
played by Lilly Rose Depp. And so that's why he
wants to move into their town, into some dilapidated old
mansion whereby he can at close range seduce Ellen, suck
(06:15):
her blood and the cycle continues.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Yeah, and kill everyone in the town with the plague.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
He can't wait to do that. Thomas goes out there.
He eventually gets to the castle, where he has a
series of very very troubling encounters, like terrifying encounters with
count Orlock. Meanwhile, his wife back in Ursberg is having
a series of of terrifying nightmares, waking nightmares, night seizures
(06:47):
for which the medical professionals of the day can find no.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Reason. And she's ysthetical class and it fix it.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Yeah, too much blot, here's a leech, too much blood
in her system.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Mind, heir, we must bleed her.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
That will you will have that line many times, when
many times Mistame watched this movie.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So count Orlock seals the deal with Thomas, signs the deed. Thomas,
in a fit of the waking fright, realizing that he
is face to face with something he doesn't understand, flees
the castle and washes up somewhere in Transylvania, Romania wherever. Meanwhile,
Orlock boards the ship a Russian ship sails for Germany.
(07:38):
In his pride that because that's how true, because at
some point he escapes the casket of dirt when he
sends his danger around him. The ship washes up in Germany.
Plague spreads through the town. People start dying, and this
sets up the final confrontation between the ancient doctor van Helsing,
(07:59):
who is to consult.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Who in this is called doctor van Franz.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Excuse me, doctor.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Van Franz played by William Dafoe. He comes to consult
with Thomas and his family through his former student, doctor
Wilhelm Savor, who runs the local asylum, and they have
this confrontation and Ellen lures count Orlock in. They Meanwhile,
(08:26):
her husband and doctor von Frantz are destroying his coffin
so he cannot return magically to the dirt of his homeland.
The sun rises, and count Orlock just turns into desiccated,
disgusting bones while getting busy atop young Ellen, who then perishes.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Because of because she has that.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
She sacrificed herself in order to save Germany in the
world from the ravagers of count Orlock.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
And there it is your movie, do we feel you know?
Speaker 3 (09:01):
I just want to start by saying right yes, that
I hate that ending so deeply because it is the
biggest diversion from basically every Dracula law where Mina always
survives and Jonathan Harker always dies aka Ellen or Thomas.
I don't have some aversion to women always dying, but
(09:22):
Mina is one of the most fantastic, storied, brilliant final
girls essentially. And I did realize while watching this version
of the movie, how many early tropes for horror this
story does set up, like that feeling of wanting to
yell at Thomas and say, hey, don't go in there.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, like this is I was sitting in.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
This cinema is like a three hundred people's cinema in
Piccadilly Circus in England, where definitely everyone was taking the
movie really seriously, and I was just dying to be
at like Burbank AMC, where I feel like there would
have just been a lot more people who were willing
to be like, bro, what the fuck are you doing
or at least like do like a some kind of
voice reaction. Like I was sitting there the whole time,
(10:07):
just like, oh my god, Thomas, please and yeah. I
just the ending of this movie is really at the
crux of what I think it doesn't understand about Dracula
and Nosferatu and also like the nature of vampirism and
women and sexuality, which is something that even like Bella
Lagosi understood in the thirties when he's talking about you
(10:29):
know his really famous quote where he's like, horror is
for women, like they are the ones who like live
with blood and violence. And I'm paraphrasing, but like that
is so missing from this story. And it's just like
that ending that was when I knew. I was just like,
this isn't for me, even though generally beautiful gowns, beautiful
(10:49):
production design, like it look, it does look nice. Like
I thought that Nicholas Holt was really really fantastic. I
loved Willem Dafoe. He knew he was essentially an howm
a horror movie and did what you should.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Do in a movie like this.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
I always love Aaron Taylor Johnson. He always shows up
in a weird role, and in this role he literally
is a necrophiliac, So like, good for him, Like you
got your weird role. But just yeah, that ending, I
feel like, no, it's that that's wrong. I just I don't.
Speaker 5 (11:22):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I don't vibe on that ending. And what did you
guys think?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Oh man, I'm really with you. I think okay to
expand on what you were so beautifully laying out about
the ending and a lack of understanding of what makes
the story special, Like if you think about his only
change being like the woman sacrifices herself to save everybody,
it's really a daunting experience. And then have to turn
(11:46):
around to be like, how do I break down and
talk about this movie in a way that sort of
honors the intent? Like I can't understand why this story
is being told this way?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Right?
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Now, I will just say like in twenty twenty two,
in nineteen twenty two, when they made the original version
of Nos Fratu, it does have an ending where Ellen
essentially like gives her blood to Orlac he dies and
then she kind of like faints and seemingly dies, but
she also doesn't have to like have sex with like
(12:24):
a rotten monster. There's like a lot more dignity in
that sacrifice and a lot more agency than what I.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Feel like we see thing.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
But in this version.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
That thought, like the idea of like what is a
sacrifice and why even is Again, if you're sacrificing, then
there should be like all of this love left behind.
Everybody's pretty much dead at this point, so you're like,
what are we? Who are we doing this? That's a
great points. Like if you think about the original Dracula,
the book comes out like it's talking about a plague
(12:55):
that has hit England and people are literally wasting away
and they are so young, and it's very tragic, and
what if in all of this horror there was some
way to preserve this person and they actually lived on forever.
It would be horrifying, horrible, But you could also understand
the seduction too, Like that back and forth. An element
of reflection on society is sort of an essential element
(13:16):
of Jacula, and all of it is gone here, and
then on top of that, you have a if Mina
is your main character, and the opening scene certainly seems
to set that up. You completely abandon her for about
a third of the movie and then come back and
there is no arc for this is a flatline story
for this girl. She starts aw seduced. She ends maybe
(13:37):
not fully under the spell, maybe sort of recognizing that
she has a choice. But the choice is awful. It's
not well thought out, it's not discussed with anybody, so
you kind of feel like she just took the first
like this is what yees to do. She's like, oh, yeah,
that is what I have to do, and then she
and then she dies and you're like, why am I
watching this movie?
Speaker 4 (13:54):
I would also say as well, like the nineteen twenty.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Two, Like we said, it was a bootleg, right, so
there's a lot of really funny, like just really brief,
unthought out stuff that they were doing because A it
was like an hour long silent movie, and b it
was being done to avoid copyright. So like in that movie,
the reason that she decides that she's gonna do that
is because like somebody's like if a pure hearted woman,
(14:17):
like if he drinks from the neck of a pure
hearted woman, like he will die and all this that
stuff is so outdated. I'm like Robert Eggers, like, could
you not have considered new way? I like, I like
this notion of Ellen as like somebody with a second sight.
But if you're gonna I think that oftentimes with this movie,
there are moments when it could be subversive, and instead
(14:38):
it just leans on already established tropes like the hysterical woman. Yeah,
or there was no exploration of the notion of a
hysterical woman or mental health in that time or anything.
And really, and I will say this was my letterbox review,
and I do think this is the big takeaway head
from this movie. This is just more proof that the
most influential movie of twenty twenty four is Possession, movie
(15:00):
from like thirty years ago that they once again, you know,
we saw it with the first omen, we saw it
in multiple like religious horror, the Sidney Sweety movie, Immacula
and now here where it's very clear that they're showing
these actresses Isabella Johnny's performance, especially when she's you know,
(15:20):
going through the funnel and Possession and they're saying to
them like can you recreate this and honestly, I will
say Lily Rose Depp does insane hysteria, Well, she's me.
I have to say, I was not expecting that. I
I to.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Branch off what y'all have said.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I agree, and I think part of the problem of
the len character for me is that Joelle put her
finger on it. It's a straight line arc. Not only
is it a straight line arc at a certain point
in the story, to me, it feels like a straight
line from before you even meet her, because as you
(16:00):
eventually find out that this she's got, this sensitivity to
the occlultiness has been going on a while, maybe since
she's been a kid, and the fact that she has
I'm fine with her sacrificing herself behind. My issue is
that throughout the film it felt as if she had
no agency, did nothing.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
She always knew she was gonna die.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yeah, had had almost no impact on events. Is just
kind of hearing what her husband and the men are
plotting to do, and hearing what he's planning to do
and just decides, Okay, here's my part to play, and she.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Just accepts it. And I felt, and that was along
with the.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Pacing, is she's just really made for a very frustrating
second half of the movie. I thought, like, listen, Edgar's
visually stunning. I've been calling him desaturated. Terrence Malick, I
love looking at his pictures. I think the first I
think everything from the beginning to the Castle is amazing.
I really liked it. I love the journey of it.
(17:04):
The scope right so well, it's wonderful.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
Terrifying to be in the castle before you really get
to see the monster, and it's that fear of the
imagined and and that stuff is really good.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
And it felt like the color palette really worked in
that section of it.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
And then it just.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Becomes a slog ping ponging back between scenes that are
just way too long. And unfortunately that part of the movie,
as you mentioned, Rosie, the horror tropes begin emerging, and
when they're happening at that pace good. The thing about
a good horror trope is that you got to slide
(17:47):
it by me, you.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Know, you gotta fasten it by.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Me so hard that, yeah, you're making a statement because
we all love genre film, so this is more like
trying to present them as original when there is no
twist and there is nothing new.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
And when the trope is unfolding over the course of
a fifteen minute scene or something there it becomes a song.
And so I think this movie's fine, but like Joelle,
I'm a bit confused as to why it exists.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
That was my biggest that was I actually put that
in our group chat when I got out of it.
Like the movie's fine, I actually didn't hate it.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
It's I it.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah, It's higher up for me than some of his
other movies because just visually I kind of enjoy a
gothic story, So this like hit a bit harder for
me than say The Northman. But I did come out
and I did text you guys and just go why
did he make it? Like I've seen not only have
I seen the nineteen twenty two on and this is
so similar. He did not really make many different choices
(18:46):
apart from this kind of interesting twist of the occult,
which I did enjoy, and Willem Dafoe does a great
job with that version of Van Helsing or Van Franz.
But I've seen the Bernerherzog noos Ferrari, which is one
of my all time favorite movies that I'll talk about later.
But like, I didn't understand the need to remake this
other than just it being something he wanted to do,
(19:08):
I don't necessarily know if it has a reason for existing.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
And also, I will say one of the biggest issues I.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Think here, and one of the reasons why there was
ping ponging back between the two spaces doesn't appeal in
the same way as other movies is in the original Dracula,
you have the Carpathian Mountains and Transylvania, which is this
very wild, very incredible or inspiring space that many people
had never really seen before, and then you have Whitby,
which is like a cozy British seaside town. I think
(19:36):
the problem here is Whisper and then Transylvania. They don't
look very different, Like there is not a huge scale
of difference between where Thomas went, but.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
She was able to get really easily.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
On horse in like a couple of days or something,
and then where we are, So there isn't this kind
of dichotomy or juxtaposition of esthetic or even really vibe
like visperg fucking sucks and the Kapathian Mountains fucking suck,
like if you live there, not visually visually. I love
a little wintry space, but yeah, it was definitely in
(20:10):
that kind of like beautiful gowns kind of space, like, oh,
it looks nice, but am I feeling anything like I did?
And also I did see a really good meme that
somebody had made where they were like, I'm sorry, Robert Eggers,
but this casting doesn't work for me, referring to Lily
Rose depth because they were like, I know those eyes
(20:30):
have seen an air.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
On and I was like, you know what, They're not wrong.
Like every time I saw the one.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Thing I do I love something, I will say that
I loved about the way they dressed her and did
her costuming and her wig. She has a very high
forehead and when they would shoot her from the side,
she kind of has this peeking forehead with this very
severe black hair. And there were moments where I was like, Okay,
I get it, like this is kind of new Gothic,
like you're leaning into the tropes but showing more. But
(21:00):
in the end it did feel to me like more
of a kind of an experiment for him that didn't
have anything to say, and also like didn't really reposition itself.
In the case of how Ellen was treated in the
original Nosferatu or in the context of how women understand
Dracula now and how like a movie even for example,
(21:21):
like nineteen ninety two is another movie I'll talk about
Bram Stokers Dracula Francis for cople of picture, but like
also as well, like yeah, that is a movie that
deeply innately understood the relationship between like vampires and sex.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
The subduction, Yeah, the seduction. We'll be right back after
a quick break and we're back.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
What did you guys think of that? Because I felt like, here,
there's no seduction.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I thought that there was a cool early in the film.
I thought there was this really cool dynamic that was
emerging that was like almost this was almost a class story.
This is a story about a working class guy who
needs money. He's borrowed money from his rich friend. He
desperately takes this job where he encounters this rich lord
(22:19):
who wants to fuck his wife, and he's gunnap no
matter what, no matter what.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
This guy's really interesting read.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I like that indecent proposal gothic site.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And so there was a there was a an hour
or so where I'm like, oh, this is actually kind
of interesting, like that take, and then that just kind
of goes away, and it does become this really ham
fisted seduction story that feels as if it just didn't
it didn't work because one, there's there's none of the
(22:51):
sexiness or the sensuality to your shooting overlock in shadow
the whole time in the side of frames, out of
the corners of.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Characters get detail.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
He is like rotting.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So it's like, what is the thing? What is this?
Where is what is the thing? Obviously he's got a
magical power, I get it, but like, take me into
that what is that?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
What is that? What is that thing?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
And I and it's and it's completely not there are.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Supposed to be. Okay, let's let's hybrid Rosy's point with
Jason's point. There should be a dichotomy between the men.
If you're if you're our main female lead, you got
two choices. I mean, let's let's be real. Okay, Listen,
the romanticy is here where it's in full effect, and
to not tap into it at all in this storyline
(23:42):
is like bananas, Like she is so in love with her,
Like Jason, your point, the opening is so like their
relationship is so cute. Immediately, like I root for this couple.
I really want them to win.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
He is so supportive of her troubles and want to
know their new root for them. And there's also the
one thing I do think is interesting is there are
these moments of impropriety, whether it's between Thomas and Ellen
or whether it's between the harding that Aaron Taylor Johnson's
character and his wife played by Emma Correy, who we
(24:15):
recently saw as a As soon as I saw her,
I was like, oh, it's Cassandra Nova Paul Wolverine. But
they have these moments of great impropriety where they're they're
lust sort of. They're out in public and they're not
supposed to kiss and they go, oh, but I can't
resist you. And her and Thomas we get these moments where.
Speaker 4 (24:32):
They are actually she's sexually attracted to him. She pulls
him back into bed like there isn't that I feel
like usually like Jonathan Harker is this safe, sensible choice
and he will victory for Victorian era man obviously played
by Keanu Reeves very repressed.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
The longing, the no touching, the propriety in society, all
necessary element missing.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Dracula repris sense this man who will go to the
end of the Earth for you? Who is this who
is exciting? He's Heath Clip exactly. And this movie sets
up the Thomas and Ellen relationship really well. But then,
like you say, Joelle does not have that dichotomy, and I.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Thought, for and like I knew, to be fair, I
knew we were sort of in trouble from the get
go because I was like, if this is a story,
if you're modernizing the story, I thought, for a second,
we'd be like, there's this old, creepy dude grooming this
young woman and offering what looks like liberation, but there's
really a trap to live under his thumb that gets
(25:37):
abandoned so fast, and it's it's not presented in maybe
the best way or like in reality, like this is
a real thing that happens to a lot of people.
There's a lot of stories out there about it that
you could tap into, and none of that sort of happens.
And so because there's not that dichonomy between your two
leading dudes, and because it's all sort of just like,
(25:57):
there's no element of you that is like, oh nos,
forrat too is a space that I want to be in.
I would want to live internal life like that, like
he's rotting, engrossed as opposed to like Regal and Swab.
But even that rounding grossness could have effect, like this
is a monster movie. It could have been like so
creepy and like Ghoulie and stuff. But really it's just
kind of gross, And I don't really for somebody who's
(26:18):
so tapped into the history of these narratives and how
they impacted people in the day, like it seems like
that's a huge thing to like a swing and a
miss on, like how this movie is going to connect
to audiences and it it didn't really work for me.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
If it's a ninety minute movie, I think, I think
it's a much better movie.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
I agree, I think I think if you shorten it,
I think it's a lot punchier.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
I also think that the creature design for.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
All Lock needed a few more it was. It did
not work for me, especially because I think we've seen
Bill Scarsgard do such incredible creature work prosthetics work in it,
you know, and to see him here, he's almost he's
lost under the prosthetics. There's not a lot of facial expression.
The best prosthetic at creature work is all on his back.
Which is when we kind of see that he's rotting
(27:12):
and gross and maggot filled. And the truth is, I look,
there are a huge contingent of monster fuckers, right, and
there are people who want to fuck every kind of monster.
Speaker 4 (27:22):
And I am inspired and think it.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
Is a cool idea to do a truly horrific monster
fucker where the monster is really monstrous. But there is
nothing here that shows us any reason why she would
want to be with him. There's a moment early on,
again like talking about that good first hour, there's a
moment early on where she tells Thomas about a dream
she had where she gets to the altar. She thinks
(27:48):
they're going to get married, but it's not him, it's
death and she should be horrified and she turns around
and everyone she knows is dead, but instead of being horrified,
she is so excited and happy than she's ever been.
I thought that was really interesting. I'm like, is this
an exploration of depression? Is this about the freedom of
wanting to not be in this world where she is
(28:09):
not understood in her powers, as seen as a cuss
and she is always being thrown with institutionalization. I thought
that was so many interesting threads, but I did feel
like by the end of the movie they were more
of a fluke than anything intentional.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Something definitely was missing because the lass romantic interaction we
have between husband and wife is so bizarre, Like I
was really trying to understand, like it's somewhat violent, it's
like they're missing each other emotionally. You're just like, why
what has led to this interaction between these two characters.
(28:46):
And I think that maybe there was something they we're
trying to say that just got lost in the translation,
because I don't think that there's a sexual repression around her,
like we see that she's sort of allowed to just
be who she wants to be and run around. I agree,
I hear's the thing.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Here's the thing I think it was Joelle to your point,
and Rosie you mentioned that really rose up as a
face that's seen in Arowon. I think that to me
what they were I've picked up on that as well.
And to me, the thing that Eggers I think was
trying to show was that these people in the past,
(29:21):
they're as smart as us, they have the same emotions
as us, they have the same problems. Here is this
couple that would have been right at home in Silver Lake,
going to Arowon but here in eighteen thirties Germany. And
they relate to each other in the same way that
a modern communicative couple that is a partnership would relate
(29:42):
to each other, only in this context.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And see how different it is.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
And I thought that was kind of where it was going, because, yeah,
the way they communicate, the way he listens to her
and her troubles and is concerned and is trying to find.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
A solution with her, not like outside of her, like.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
It's very modern in that that relationship is extremely modern,
especially when contrasted with Aaron Taylor Johnson's marriage, which is
just like keep having the kids.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I'm going to go to work and.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Call your hair up for four hours.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
I'll call on you when I need sex, and that's
about it, you know. And so and then that was
that part of it was very interesting and kind of
worked for me before they kind of went away from that.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Yeah, it's interesting because now we're talking about it, there's
all these different threads, Like you were talking about Jason,
like the class aspect and then Joelle the grooming aspect
and these kind of explorations. But it was almost like
the ideas were all there and then eventually it kind
of went away.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
And I look, I get it.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Some people are going to say, well, why does it
need to be about anything other than a vampire who
is like killing people because this story has been told
five thousand Actually, like, I love a thoughtless horror movie.
I watched so many slashes. I watch so many bad movies.
I watch so many movies that have a straight down
the line plot, but you know what, they don't proclaim
(31:14):
to be any kind of artistic achievement. And also, even
though sometimes they definitely are, also like often they do
have a twist or something different, something they're trying to do.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
And I think that with this, I don't feel like it.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Achieves a new reading that makes it that proves its
reason for existence when there are literally, like so many
other remakes of both Dracula and Nosferartu. Yeah, so I
think that it's interesting because there are so many cool
ideas that are seeded in that first hour, but by
the time you get to the second hour, I don't
(31:51):
think they pay off.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I was gonna ask if this is Egger's worst cast film.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I actually don't know. I think this is actually I
think this is a well cast film, and I like
the cast I like.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
I just think for me, I felt like.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Everyone was in a different movie. That was the issue
I have.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
But I felt like most of them they were pretty good.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah, they'll be a directing issue if you cast not harmonious. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Willem Dafoe, he's in like a campy hammer horror movie
and I love that film. Aaron Taylor Johnson, he's in
like a Jane Austin Pride.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
And he's a villain, you know.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
And you know, Thomas and Nicholas Holt and Liley rose
Deep are in this more kind of progressive modern reading
of like what would it really be like to exist
in these times? And are these people just the same
as us? But I don't necessarily found that it gelled
well together. My biggest casting issue I think that Renfield or.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
In this who is the they make him the kind.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Of real estate her not.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Yeah, that for me was a miscasting just in or
a misdirection. There was something about it that didn't hit
when usually that, to me, is such a powerful and
terrifying character.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
Stories, Joe al tell us, what was wrong with the
cost in your mind?
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Okay, so a lot of people really love what Lily
Rose dep did. I think that she is giving her
all to these moments, but that does not a performance
make maybe this she's a very young actress. This is
not a well written part. But just from a choices perspective,
I think she doesn't lend a lot of opportunity to
(33:26):
give like a second layer of just performance, and that
to me is difficult when ostensibly she's the lead. Although
you could argue this is actually Nicholas Holt's movie.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
I would say he is the lead, like honestly, because
we leave her behind for so.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
Long, and we do spend a great deal of time
with him, but to be fair, then we leave him
behind for a long time, and so it's just it's
kind of a hot mess all over the place with
just whose story is this and who are we following?
I also think as good a job as Aaron Taylor
Johnson does, this poor costume designer was working her ass
off trying to hide that body. She was like, this
body does not belong in Victoria Times Giant.
Speaker 3 (33:59):
This man's been he's walking on the MCU diet. Baby,
he's been lifting five hundred pounds a day. Like it
is so huge.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
It's huge in this movie, Like you do not look
like the I mean you work at the shipyard, but
you're not the one lifting the crates to own it,
like what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (34:16):
The truth is I did. I did really like the performance,
and I thought him and emmacuren was an interesting counterpoint.
But if we're talking about that ninety minute movie, you could.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Have just caught them out.
Speaker 4 (34:25):
They actually really needed in any way shape.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Or for especially if you're not going to dive into
the redive into the class aspect, because you know that
has some juice. The fact that that Thomas owed Aaron
Taylor Johnson's character so much money I thought was interesting.
I will say that all of to me, I could
I think that Lily Rose Up was good, and she
(34:50):
oppressed me a little bit. I will just say that
I think for somebody who's maybe not there's not a
lot of story here for people to bite into. And
I think that to me is like a lot of
the Eggers. Thing is great vibes, incredible visuals, but always always,
always just a little thin on story. Obviously, I think
(35:10):
the Lighthouse is.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Like on like hot, not hot, like oh it has
to be nice, but like layers, like there's there's a
complexity that is missing in most of these films.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
The which nothing happens. Some people like it.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
I'm saying it, Jason.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Disagree, hard disagree, but respect. I'm that's okay. Nothing happens.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
The Lighthouse Good The Northman adapted from Hamlet nos Feritu
adapted from one hundred and two year old movie, which
is in itself adapted from a novel. I'm not sure
story is really his strong point. And Joelle like he
has said things to that regard, where it's just like
you get got a cool idea and just shoot it.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Up pretty much. He was like, you're your sound should
be passable. You're you know, He's like, other than that,
as long as you have a haltycent story, you're pretty
much ready to go. So that's that's sort of like
where he's at in his bag. Wise and listen, I
think that's okay. I really I have a theory. Okay.
So Egress has this idea of a dollhouse, which he
(36:11):
talks about in The Witch. He builds this really intense cabin.
They spend a lot of time just looking at the
cabin and making it feel like really impressive and and
sort of showcasing how these people are out castking. Okay,
lighthouse is self explanatory. That's the dollhouse. It's the lighthouse.
It's all kind of set up. You get the full
of the for opening, like two minutes of that shot
in the Northman, suddenly no dollhouse. You're just open in wilderness.
(36:33):
There's a couple of different stage sets here, but it's
so open, so nebulous, so many additional people. And that's
I think where he starts to lose his footing. I
think he's in his bag and knows s Faratu in
that freaking castle. And we mentioned it a lot, but
what makes that castle scene so good is maddeningly disorienting,
like you're going up the stairs or following somebody and
(36:55):
then somewhere completely different. He can't get out. Well, the
angles are strange.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
The lights are only firelight. But he is always in shadow.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (37:06):
Another thing I will say that I loved, and obviously
this is taken from that very famous moment in the
original Nosferatu, but he does this thing with shadow where
like at the beginning especially he shows well act like
it's like he's the shadow behind the curtain, but when
the curtain blows away, he's there. So it's like you said, Joel,
I think you're right. The intimacy of a scene or
(37:28):
a space can really work in his favor with that
dollhouse technique. But when he spreads it out and you're
suddenly in five six different locations, you don't necessarily get
that magic all the time. It becomes very spread out.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
There's a layer of creating an atmosphere that's just gone.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Yeah, okay, so let's do it because we've already had
the disagreements have already begun, Joel, what are you rank
Robert Eggers movies?
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Okay, and give them a letter grade? Okay, okay, okay,
including uh no to me, the Witch is in a
I disagree that nothing happens. I think you're watching a
family completely turn on an individual member, and it's haunting
and horrifying and I love it. Okay. My next favorite
is The Northman. I'm gonna give it a C plus.
(38:12):
Here's why I like The Northman better than The Lighthouse.
Lighthouse is so disgusting. It's really a challenge it. It's
so disturbing to watch. It's very disgusting. Also, watching people
fight gives me anxiety belly, and I'm like, I just
don't know if I can do this. I will say
The Lighthouse is a better film than The Northmen. I
would give it a B plus maybe actually maybe like
a low A like the cinematography that movies off the chain.
(38:35):
And then yeah, my least favorite is No Saratu. I
just found it really challenging to connect with the story.
I don't like the creature design work at all, complete
waste of Bill Scar's guard icon and makeup total total,
and I just don't think it works on the horror
or romance or a creepy seduction factor or stylistically, We're
(38:59):
gonna talk about our favorite jacque Is coming up, but
all of them have such an intense visual style that
I really think that if your style is I'm want
to be grounded in reality, doesn't it work for this story?
Speaker 3 (39:12):
Yeah? Also as well, like a style that has also
been done in the past by having like this just
replicate kind of old movie aesthetics.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah. Yeah, So that's that's my ranking. What about you, Rosie?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Okay, So Lighthouse for me, that's an A plus movie.
I think it's like a masterpiece.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
I love it. I saw it on the big screen.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
It's fantastic, unbelievable performance is incredibly strange.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Just nothing else like it.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
A cosmic horror that isn't from Lovecraft, which is so rare.
It's an A plus movie for me. This is going
to be very controversial, but honestly, I actually think like
the drop off is so big for me after the Lighthouse,
the next three are probably like interchangeable. I would say
currently probably recently biased because I do think it looks nice.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Nosferatu is like a B minus for me.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yes, so nos too is probably actually currently my second
preferred Eggles movie, though I do think the Droppers that
I think the drop off for me is just too big.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
I really disliked The Northman.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
It just didn't work for me at all. But I
did enjoy this movie to a point. Then I would
say The Witch, which I love the last thirty minutes
of the Witch, but I don't love the Witch. I
don't disagree with Jason that the Witch has issues with pacing.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
I think the best part.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
Of the Witch is Black Philip. I also have a
fantastic friend. Black Philip's incredible, and I obviously ANNIEA. Taylor
Joy is also incredible. I love that line. I am
that Witch. But I also have a really brilliant friend
who's a cultural critic who I worked and a comic
book historian who I worked in Orbital Comics within London
called Adam Karena and the Sheriff. And when The Witch
(40:57):
came out, Adam was like, there an inherent misogyny in
making a movie about a time when women were persecuted
for made up crimes, essentially being witches. And they were
across the globe which just like wiped out, like they're
being tortured, they're being burnt at the steak. And then
(41:18):
nowadays men make movies and they're like, oh, actually they
were witches. And I was like, I was like that ship,
it's so fucking deep.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
That's a really poignant thought. My counter to that is
you drive us to madness, like these crazy things drive
people to do insane shit. But I also hear, I
hear that.
Speaker 3 (41:40):
No, No, I agree with that, and so yeah, The
Witch for me is probably like a C plus, and
then The Northman for me is a D. Even though
I love I love Nicole Kidman and I love Mother
Alex Scott's God, but it just did not work for me.
I've seen Conan the Barbarian before, guys, like I've read Ambler.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
It just it just wasn't enough for me. Jason, how
about you?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
I am going to go the Lighthouse, which I think
is in a minus. I think, you know, my biases
are going to show here. But it's the one Eggers
movie that's funny and and I like that. I think
it's two wonderful performances in like an all hander for
the Age is visually so crazy and weird. I feel
(42:22):
like Eggers should consider more black and white work, since
he seems to hate colors so so much. Think about
it like this was the grayscale. The richness of the
black and white was absolutely compelling. Then I am going
to go, and I agree with Rosie. I feel the
same in that after the Lighthouse it drops off pretty
(42:43):
precipitously for me. I am going to go. Uh Nos
fair too as a C minus. First half of the
movie I enjoyed. I think there are some interesting ideas
here that just ultimately don't that it needed to stay
in the oven for like another hour and a half
and come together more. Then I am going to go.
(43:06):
You know, I've slagged it a lot, but I'm gonna say,
I'm going to say The Witch as a again, he
hasn't really made a bad movie. It's just also like
a C minus, but like somehow a C minus below
the C minus of The Northman. You know, Anya Taylor
Jory gives a mesmerizing performance.
Speaker 4 (43:24):
She's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
There is.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
There is real value to be had in creepiness, and
I think this is a movie, along with like The
Baba Duck and other movies from that era, that brought
creepiness back.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
And I think that an atmosphere.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Atmosphere and creepiness is really important in horror movies. And
to capture that, even though to me the pacing was
not there, Like there is that creepiness and I think
that was cool.
Speaker 1 (43:53):
Then I'm going to.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Go The Northmen. It's like a D plus C minus.
Great performances again, and I was troubled by the decision.
You know, it's like weird to me. White supremacists love
this movie.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Also historically inaccurate to actually have a movie with the
white vikings.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Just saying.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
I have also seen Conan the Barbarian. You know, I've
seen many adaptations of Hamlet, and.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
It was one of those movies that left me feeling
like what are we trying to say here?
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Which is often the thing I'm trying to figure out
with Beggars, like well, okay, what's.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Going to that? Like other than like Vibe and Alexanderscard's
cards looked hot fighting on the side of a volcano
of hot correct, his lats were fucking incredible.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
When he's like doing the opening shot when he's like
half naked with the acts, ye.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
Throws it back. Yeah, And that was a movie too.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Where like similarly to some of my critiques about Out
That's fair too, I think that there was like a
really interesting thing about cycles of trauma in this movie.
Here is this young man who is traumatized, and in
so doing his tormentors have created the next generation of
traumatizers and tormentors. You know, this cycle continues again in
(45:20):
an idea that's there and seed form and then is
kind of abandoned. And so you know, I would give
I would give the Viking like a D plus. D
D plus is like a passing price, right, like a
D Yeah, excuse me, the Northman, So I would give
that like a D plus. But the but the Lighthouse,
to me, his best movie.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
I just think it's it's like a masterpiece. I think
you're right. I think the humor actually, I'm glad you
brought that out, because the humor in the Lighthouse I love.
I quote it all the time. I'm always talking about
people eating the lobsters and like and all that kind
of funny ship. But also it's not in this movie.
So often I was just like, is there no jokes?
(46:04):
I was like, is there not a single joke in Nosferatu? Like,
is there not snuck in a couple of he comes
in at the end. Then suddenly they're like, Okay, this
is the kind of ship that I'm looking for. Like
I'm a horror lover, I'm a bram Stokers Dracula lover.
There could be moments of levity, doesn't have to be
full on camp, but this was like so stone called
(46:27):
severe that I think when Williem Defoe came on, he
just like bright and the screen. I just I couldn't
the version of this where it's one France.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
You know that interesting house in space is more interesting
visually than almost everything else we get in the film.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
Very short backstory where we learn he was essentially pushed
out of scientific circles because he was seen as an occultist,
Like that is so interesting.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Even when in the visual details like when we first
see him like strange I was coat and there's like
a puff of dust rises off of it. You're like,
oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
And also he's like literally they walk in and he's
trying to do alchemy, like he's literally trying to make gold.
That is so interesting and complex and strange. And I
think that is where Eggers is so strong. And I
think also that's that moments of Thomas in the Castle
with Orlac, Like there is that strangeness, that scariness, that horror,
(47:27):
that weirdness. He's so great in those moments, and I
think some of the other period aspects they just don't
hit for me in the same way that they hit.
Speaker 4 (47:35):
For other people, like with the Witch or with with this.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
Because i'ms my gut says, this is probably going to
be another kind of scene as a return to form
after The Northman, which didn't necessarily perform in the way
that studios were expecting.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
Yeah, okay, well, let's take a break to you know,
send out our magic sensory feelers to any of the
sensitive magic sensitives out there so that we can suck
their blood and their life essences and steal everything from them.
When we come back, we are going to talk about
(48:12):
our favorite Draculas, favorite Tracula stories, favorite Dracula films.
Speaker 5 (48:16):
You're right back after this, and we are back.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
We're back.
Speaker 5 (48:31):
Here we go.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Dracula.
Speaker 3 (48:33):
Yes, Dracla.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
We're talking Dracula origins. No, you know, no son of Dracula,
no bride of Dracula.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
And none of that Twilight like centric.
Speaker 3 (48:46):
This is Dracula specific, based on the Dracula book by
Bram Stokers Dracula.
Speaker 2 (48:51):
Here are our favorites, Joel, would you like to go first?
Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, I'm gonna say one. That's probably all of ours.
Bram Stoker's Dracula nineteen eighty version isational. I remember seeing
this in production design, I mean productions. Off the chain.
There is a shot where there's like the chain train
in the foreground and like the map of London in
the back and the hand outstretching and oh my gosh.
(49:16):
But then when you get to Jacco's cats, it's all
red velvet and sensual women. The bisexual energy is off the.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
Charting, the costume, the uh, the armor that he wears
that looks like it is the inside of his muscle.
Speaker 4 (49:30):
It's so good, so red, Oh my god, so good.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
Everything about this movie slaps in his you know, in
his old form where he's looking like a like a
regal like vampire mister burns, like yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
They never forget that, the instantly unforgettable bot hair where
it's like yeah, still talk. My nephew was literally talking
about the other day because we watched the episode of
How Simpsons you know Treehouse that's so so good.
Speaker 1 (50:04):
And prime Keanu reeves classic right and went on a writer,
this is wonderful.
Speaker 4 (50:10):
You want to go one for one or just do
all of the miner row.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
Let's do all of them in a row. Okay, yeah, okay,
three three three, just three controversial opinion. I'm going okay
two thousand and four Van healthing Hell.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
You know what, people come here for the unexpected takes.
They look Jason might be a classic. They know they
know that if I'm on the show, there's gonna be
some weird picks, So don't absolutely.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
I will say that, I will say that I love it.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
I will say that I think before I before you
continue that I think this is one of the ugliest
films ever made.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
But I can go.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Like Nightmarriage Zero's horror Estate.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
But us, why tell us? Why I speak to you? Okay,
if you haven't seen Van Heusing, imagine Hugh Jackman in
a cowboy slash musical esque variety show chaos an inscription
it is Jacula from Van Housing's POV. So you're getting
like we're unting the vampires. It feels like a set,
(51:22):
like like a time not in the classic way of
like the nineteen thirties style movies where you're like, Wow,
this is beautiful. It feels like those are some extra
sets at the MGM lot and they made it work.
But it's so funny and I really like part of
it is absolutely nostalgia. But there's just a part of
me that in two thousand and four was like, how
was I then? I would been fifteen. Yeah, I was
(51:45):
just very into this movie. I was like, the vibes
are immaculate. It's kind of creepy, it's kind of goffey,
it's kind of romantic. There's a lot of hot people here.
It's fun, but it's also kind of true to the narrative.
They don't take that many liberties with the story. So
if you're about it, like maybe their weaponry is a
little more advanced, you get like bow shoes. It's very dark.
It's very dark. Soul's in fluence.
Speaker 3 (52:07):
Yeah. I feel like there's gonna be a Van heusing
like recon reconsideration soon because I feel like, aesthetically this
looks like what Universal used as the inspiration for that
new park they're doing. That's like dark yeah us, and
it's very like you're on a film set of eighteen
(52:28):
hundreds Germany, but it's a little bit modern and there's
a little bit of like a little bit more edge
and a little bit more like cool design. And I
really feel like immediately when I started to see the
designs coming out of Dark Universe, which is going to
be part of the Epic Universe parks, I was like, Oh,
I feel like somebody watched Van Housing, so I love
that picture.
Speaker 4 (52:47):
Oh that was incredible.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
What's your last ing?
Speaker 1 (52:50):
I'll just go with the classic Nosperrato. If you haven't
seen it, it's man, it extremely holds up lighting wise,
you're just gonna be It's like watching Cabin of Calgary,
where you're just like, yeah, this is uh, I can't
believe someone made this so long ago, while filmmaking must
really be inherent in our blood, Like what could I
be doing with this level of just like basic skills
(53:13):
in filmmaking to make something this tightens and this artistic,
in this beautiful and truly like I wasn't sure how
I was going to receive silent fills. My dad found
like ripped a copy of the Internet when I was
thirteen because I was like, I have to see this
movie everyone's talking about, and I was blown away by
it remained blown away by it. So I would highly
recommend watching the original Astrauato. What about Rosie? You want
(53:36):
to go next?
Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, well, so one of mine was going to be
Brown Stoker is Dracula. I just I totally agree with you.
I think it's fantastic. I rewatch it all the time.
It's way too long in the best way. The costume
designs are like impeccable, the Oscar winning costume designs, and
I mean I even have a hat that celebrates the
costume designs winning an Oscar. So I have a hat
(54:00):
from Superachi that says and the winner of best costume
design is Eco Ishioca for Bramstoga's Dracula. And I have
actually visited her Oscar that is in the Academy Museum
because I just think they're so perennial.
Speaker 4 (54:14):
I didn't commit to buying the three hundred dollars.
Speaker 3 (54:18):
Full size armor bag that I saw a place made
recently that was super cool, So that was gonna be
one of my I'm also gonna go for Dracula nineteen
thirty one, but not the bell Lagosi version, which I
do love, but because the secret of the nineteen thirty
one Dracula made by Universal is that at night they
(54:39):
filmed a Spanish language version, same script, completely different casts,
same sets or Spanish language.
Speaker 4 (54:46):
It was very hard to find for a very long.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
Time, but now it just plays constantly on the Universal
Monsters channel. They have a great rip of it. And
I've just been completely obsessed with this kind of duel
movie making history that they chose to do there to
just you know, appeal to a wider audience, something they're
not even doing now, you know. And they were doing
that in nineteen thirty one. So that movie is incredible.
(55:09):
The guy who plays Dracula is like, so not Bela Lagosi.
It's incredible. That's definitely worth checking out. I love that version.
I love the bel Lagosi version too, I'm a big
bell Lagosi stan But my favorite version probably no surprise,
as it's well known that I love Verna Herzog, but
the nineteen seventy nine Verna Hazog version of Nosferatu, which
(55:31):
I do think is the best version of Dracula or
nos Faratu, with klaus Kinski as Nosferatu and Isabella Johnny
actually in the Mina Harker role, and that sticks to
the more classic Dracula ending where it's about Jonathan dying
and Mina surviving, and I just think it's such a
beautifully rendered movie.
Speaker 4 (55:48):
It's so tragic.
Speaker 3 (55:49):
Even though the design of klaus Kinski's Nosparatu is very
similar to the classic design, very ugly, very horrifying, not
the suave bel Lagosi version, he still is sensual and tragic.
He emost so hard. There are even just photographs from
that film where you can feel this kind of wrenching
(56:09):
sadness and heartbreak. And also something that came to me
a lot during watching nos Ferratu twenty twenty four was
like there's no color, There was no It was this
idea of like bleached out everything, which can work in
certain ways. We talked about Sleepy Hollow, the Timberton movie.
There are ways you can use gradients of gray and
white and blacks that can be very affecting, and obviously
(56:30):
just shooting black and white is one of those options,
like Eggs did.
Speaker 1 (56:33):
With the Lighthouse.
Speaker 3 (56:34):
But Herzogs Nosferatu is actually incredibly colorful, and I feel
like that adds to that kind of the surreal nature
of when Nosferatu arrives and the difference between daytime and
night time. Egg's Nosferratu is like, when she's out in
the daytime, it's horrible and bleak, and when it's nighttime
it's horrible and bleak. I think there's a duality and
(56:56):
that kind of juxtaposition with Herzog's Nosphratu that is just
so fantastic, And obviously every time him and Kinski wack together,
it's a masterpiece because they were like the ultimate for enemies.
So those of mind Jason wore about.
Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yours mine are.
Speaker 2 (57:10):
I'm gonna go first with Dracula nineteen seventy nine. Dracula,
I'm so glad you love the story so starring Frank
Langella as the extremely suave handsome and charming Count Dracula,
incredible cast, Lawrence Olivier is how crazy, aging Van helsing,
Donald pleasants doing this now now Donald Pleasant's thing, and
(57:36):
just a operatic romantic like you feel like Dracula kind
of falls in love in this movie and he is
a monster, but like you, it's this depiction of Dracula
as like this basically less love bomb monster who really
does fall in love with his victims. Tremendously, such a
(57:56):
stylistically pleasing movie too, Like every time you watch it
you just want to be that, you want to.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
Be Yea, it looks great.
Speaker 2 (58:03):
The castle is creepy but looks great, and just a
wonderful movie with wonderful performances.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
Then I'm gonna go I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
Echo Joel here the original nus Fair two nineteen twenty two.
F Now, I mean, like it's just stunning.
Speaker 3 (58:18):
Still best boot like ever made. So proud of him.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
It is incredible. You can't believe. It's not like a
technical achievement on the level of like you know, Citizen
Kane or anything. But you can't believe that they created
these effects, They created this atmosphere. There is no sound
like it is immensely, immensely creepy and a wonderful achievement.
(58:46):
And then next TI, I'm gonna go this is we
all got one cheat version, and this is my cheat version,
two thousand, Shadow of the Vampires. Love William Defoe, legend Williams.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
So this movie, which is super super fun.
Speaker 2 (59:04):
It's like a it's like a behind the scenes of
the nineteen twenty.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
Two nos Feratu.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
You're watching FW Murnau create this movie and all the
issues and troubles he's got trying to wrangle the actors
and get everything to work.
Speaker 1 (59:20):
And he's got this star who.
Speaker 2 (59:23):
Played by Willem Dafoe, who is very mysterious and is
maybe a real vampire, like it's unclear, And it's such
a fun take on it.
Speaker 1 (59:37):
John Malkovich plays the director.
Speaker 2 (59:39):
Did John Malcavinci as like an absolute terror of a director.
Is a wonderful film and a really cool twist on
the Dracula origin story. A great movie that's worth your time.
Speaker 1 (59:54):
Such a good great list, guys.
Speaker 2 (59:56):
So yeah, wonderful lists all around.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (59:59):
We're gonna be back again this week Tuesday for a
recap of Skeleton Crew one oh five, and then Thursday
We're looking ahead at the films, the TV shows, the
video games we're most excited for.
Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
That's it for this episode, Thanks.
Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
For good bye.
Speaker 2 (01:00:21):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kenseepsion and Rosie
Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive
producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer
is a Boo Zafar. Our producers are Carmen Laurn and
Mia Taylor. Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.
Speaker 3 (01:00:42):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman
and Heidi on Discoll Moderata
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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