November 11, 2025 • 36 mins
Jason and Rosie come together to discuss Apple TV's new sci-fi series Pluribus, from prolific creator Vince Gilligan. They recap the fascinating two-episode premiere and then discuss the themes and big questions the show poses, as well as some predictions for where this unexpected show might lead as the season continues. Won't you join us?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for the new Vince Gilligan
sci fi show on Apple TV, plus Pluribus episodes one
and two.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You won't Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
My name is Jason Kntepsion.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Hello, I'm Rosy night, and welcome back to.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Extra Vision of the podcast where we dive you but to
your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Coming to you from My Heart Podcast. We'll bring you
three episodes a weeks listeners.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
In today's episode, we talked about it with former Rolling
Stone critic Alan Sepenwall. We tease that a little bit,
but now we're able to dig fully into the absolutely
wild Pluribus episodes one and two on Apple TV. Now, guys,
just before we jump into that super crazy, unexpected pilot,
(00:59):
a quick production this holiday season, we are going to
be sharing some short stocking stuff for episodes with you.
With so many great shows and movies coming out these
next few months, these episodes will help us cover some
extra content we wouldn't usually be able to get onto
on our normal episodes, So stay tuned for our stocking
stuff as starting the week of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
But first, Glory of bus I'm one too. The pilot
opens with a counter showing that it is some four
hundred and fifty plus days before the beginning of the
actual show, so over a year before the events that
we will see. Scientists discover that there's a message that's
(01:44):
been beamed in the direction of Earth, and it's been
going for an unknown amount of time. It's coming from
six hundred light years away, and it certainly seems intelligent
in origin, and everybody's very interested in this. When they
discover it, one thing leads to another. It turns out
(02:04):
that this message is divided into four parts, and each part,
a guy figures out, is a representative of one of
the protein ingredients for DNA, So it turns out to
be a recipe for like an RNA strand, a strand
of protein. Fast forward about a year later after this,
(02:27):
but approximately fifty days or something like that before the
events of the show. Military doctors at the United States
Army Military Research Intelligence Division, I think that's correct, you,
sam Rid, which I know about because of Stephen King's
the stand have succeeded in creating this recipe which infectious
(02:49):
diseases to get United States Army Military Research infectious diseases
something and thank you. Ian super producer ian. So they
make this protein, which is.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
That a good idea?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
But they make it.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I feel like it's not a good idea, Like, let's
be real happen.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, they would definitely make it, and they're trying to
be I guess as safe as possible. They're making it.
They've been trying it out on animals, but they don't
see like any.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Effects at all. Like you.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
They're injecting into different species, but nothing's happening. And they
have this big bank of like rats, and there's these
two doctors in there doing the day's tasks with you know,
injecting this protein and seeing what happens. And they notice
that one of the rats is dead, and so they
take it out and they're looking at it and it's
like the heart is pumping really strong, but it's just
(03:41):
like stunned. And this doctor takes off their gloves so
they can feel the pulse of the rat, which I
feel like, there's got to be a better way to
do it. But whatever, take off the gloves, I fail.
Never take off the glove. The rat bites the person
and the virus has entered the human population. This doctor
quickly goes about infecting the doctor that she is in
(04:04):
the lab with and infecting, and they both go about
infecting people throughout the facility, and very very quickly the
facility falls like within a night or so easily easily,
and all the people who have been infected are now
like working together part of a hive mind, we will discover,
so sharing a kind of consciousness, and they begin working
(04:27):
together happily to like box up the samples of this
protein and begin mailing it to different labs across the
military labs we will later find out an episode two,
and also like licking the doughnuts down in the lobby
so that everybody who comes in and you know, including
people who were at work today, will eventually become infected.
(04:51):
And as this is going on, we meet author Carol
Stirka in the midst of a book tour. She's kind
of like like a down market Diana Galbadon.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, I was gonna say, it's it's big like Apple
book energy kind of.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
But not the top shelf.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
As no, no, no, this is this is the low
If you sold out a fourth wing, this is what
you pick up next.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Right, she is like below Diana Galbadon below Sarah J.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Moss. Oh, definitely she's like, you know, like thirtieth on
the Chops.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Right, Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Carol's fans are very ardent, and they're mostly like these
kind of you know, like white, very romance centric white ladies,
with a few like very very very dedicated like nerds.
And Carol's feelings about her work are clearly very complex.
(05:53):
She doesn't think it's very artful or very like authentic
to who she is as a creator, as an artist,
but you know, it's work, and she's successful, and she's
in a relationship with her manager, Helen, who is on
tour with her, but also she is keeping that part
(06:15):
of her life like deeply under wraps in order to
keep selling books. Like the main romance in the books
is it's a very it's a hetero romance with this
kind of sexy figure known as Rabond. All these white
women Rabon who all these ladies like love RoboN. But
(06:37):
we're going to find out that originally Carol wanted Rabond
to be a woman because that would be again more
authentic to her, but then she decided not to and
she feels like she's sold.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Out because of this.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
About a week later, Carolyn Helen are returning from tour,
Helen clearly has many dwi's on her record. Because she
needs a breathalyzer to start her car. They stop at
a bar.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I had no idea this was the thing.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
By the way, until the show, it is a thing.
It's a real thing. I like, it's a real thing.
So they stop at a bar. They're discussing Carol's career,
which again she's kind of like dissatisfied with. They notice
outside that there's these planes flying overhead in perfect like
parallel lines. Probably I'm guessing military planes that are dropping
(07:18):
the virus like in aerosol form, like from the air,
And very soon everybody begins falling sick, just like everybody
in the Samurid facility.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
They like go into.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
This convulsion and then they come out as part of
the hot mind. Helen, when she's becoming infected, falls and
hits her head like really hard. She eventually dies of
brain bleed. Carol is like trying to get her to
the hospital, and every time she's trying to get to
it's like a problem, one problem after another. She can't
start the car because the breathalyser. She has to take
(07:49):
another guy's car. She struggles Helen into the pickup truck.
She gets there at the hospital, everybody's infected. A doctor
tries to infect her by kissing her and very clearly
doesn't work. Carol eventually ends up back home and has
to leave Helen's body outside, and she turns on the
TV is relieved to see a government emergency broadcast hosted
(08:10):
by a guy who turns out as the under Secretary
of Agriculture, like fifteenth down the bay whatever everyone else
is somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
As soon as I saw that, I was like, it's
giving you know, designated leader or whatever that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So she's Carol is relieved that the government appears to
be going, but then she's disturbed when she notices like
all the graphics on the screen are addressing her by name,
Like Caroll just calls everything that's gonna be okay.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
She calls the number.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
This guy, his name is Davis Tafler, the Undersecretary of
agg and he addresses her like in the broadcast, addresses
her phone call like he's listening to her, and he's like, listen,
sorry about everything that's happening, So sorry about Helen, Sorry about.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Everybody that's died.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Long story short, like this alien broadcast, you know, was
a recipe for a virus, and we're all infected with
the virus and now we're very happy because we're all
like this unified hive mind. And by the way, anything
you need like food, medicine, whatever, Like we want this
to be as comfortable and peacefullow transition transition for you
(09:20):
as possible, Like don't whatever you want to do, you
can do, but like we suggest you don't wander around
too much because we're cleaning up all the dead bodies.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
In the streets.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And we're so sorry about this, but like everything's gonna
be fine after this, peace on Earth, the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And where's the president.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
The president unfortunately passed away during the transition, along with
many other high ranking members of your government. But you
are immune for some reason. We're studying it, and there's
twelve other people that are immune just like you, and
we're going to figure that out.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And Carol like flips out and hangs up, as Davis
is like on the TV being like Carol.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Carol'll pick up.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
We just want to talk to you, Carroll pick up.
That is a pilot.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I wassilarly Bunker's pilot so well, mockted. I've had so
many messages about this pilot.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Quite intriguing. My wife, who's not a sci fi person,
was into it. Let's go to a quick break. We'll
come back recap episode two and then talk about our
thoughts about this show so much. Pluribus Episode two, The
(10:36):
Hive and the Body. We open in Tangiers, over in
the North Africa, and you know, it's the same issue everywhere,
not going great. You know, stuff's on fire, but the
Hive Mind people are putting you know, putting out the
fires and collecting the dead bodies, of which there are
(10:57):
a lot. We see this woman who we will eventually
learned his named Zosia, although does that really matter in
this time when they all have the High Mind.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Is helping clear corpses.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And then she hops on a plane to go to Albuquerque,
where Vince Gillian loves to set all his shows, and
she goes basically to meet Carol. Carol is at home
in New Mexico, and she's like burying Helen, trying to bury,
digging grave, trying to bury Helen in the backyard. Very
earth is very hard. It's a very difficult go of it.
(11:28):
And in the middle of all this, Zosha appears cleaned up,
you know, she having taken a shower at the airport,
basically saying, hey, I'm from the Hive Mind. How are
you and do you need any water? We're worried about
your about your hydration. I am every medical doctor on earth,
(11:49):
and I can look at you and I can tell
you're dehydrated.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Also, you've been watching.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You from a from a reaper drone high above, high
above your house, just to make sure if you're okay.
Carol throws away the water bottle, believing I, you know,
I get it, believing that perhaps it's poisoned.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Or never have found.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
She. Carol notices something about Zosha, and that is that
clearly the Hive Mind selected her because she very much
resembles She goes inside and gets a copy of her
latest book from inside, brings it out, holds it up
to Zosha, and it's very clear that Zosha was selected
because she looks very much like a female version of Rabond.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Something only Carol knew.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Wickero novels right, only Carol, only Helen. Only Carol knows currently.
But Helen knew before she died, of course, that Carol
wanted Rabond to be a woman and struggled with that
for a while, and here is you know, the visual
representation of female rabond Zsha is like, by the way,
(13:00):
Helen is very happy with us. She was only alive
for a few moments during the transition, but in those moments,
and if you recall in the pilot, you see her
smile in these final as she's passing away, and in
the moment I read it as she sees Carol and
(13:21):
is able to pass away peacefully because she's seen the
person she loves. But what probably happened is she was
finding peace and satisfaction as a member of the Hive
Mind collective. And Carol is so mad at this. She
tells Zoshita fuck off, and she's so angry. And you aliens,
you motherfucker? Is this that and the other? And her anger,
(13:45):
we discover in this moment, has the ability to short
circuit people infected with the virus, and not just like
one of them, the entire biomass of infected humans on
the planet, the Hive Mind, that's like four We find
out that they've about a billion let's round it up
(14:05):
to a billion people have died, but like eight hundred
million died in the initial transition. So there's like four
whatever it is, five billion people like on Earth, and
they all collapse because Carol's never frozen. Yes, Carol realizes
that she had some kind of hand in this, and
as she's driving across town, realizes that like all the
people that she sees are having this convulsion. She's trying
(14:29):
to save people's lives. She trying to get a guy
down from like a cherry picker, and it's just it's
just stressful and exhausting. But when they come back, it's fine,
everything's fine. They're not mad at her. They just go
about their peaceful, weird, hive mind lives. Zosha is gone,
and Carol, exhausted, calls the numbers she saw on TV,
(14:51):
which you know, basically gives the High Mind permission for
them to retrieve her. Zosha comes back and is like, listen,
you accidentally killed a few a few people, maybe how many,
I don't know, like a couple of million, millions, Like
we find out I think the number is eleven. Yeah,
in this episode, So that's really troubling. That's very disturbing.
(15:14):
Carol is horrified, but also chastened now kind of realizing
like I need to get at this is all so
stressful and traumatic, but I got to get a grip.
She wants to finish Helen's grave by herself, but Sosha's like,
let us help you, and she brings in like this
fucking earth mover to dig up the soil and try
and like, and they bring in by helicopter. It's incredible.
(15:37):
All the resources of earth basically are at Carol's disposal
if she should so want it. That night, Carol is like, well,
I heard that there's the other uninfected. I would like
to speak to them, the twelve of them. Zosha flies
Carol to bill Bao in Spain, and Carol meets four
of them there, each from a different country, along with
(16:00):
their families, each traveling with you know, their love. Their
loved ones are now part of the collective, but like
they clearly it makes the uninfected happy to have them around.
And then the fifth survivor shows up, Diabate from Mauritania,
and mister Diabate, a very elegant French speaking man, comes
onboard Air Force one and he's late because he was like, well,
(16:22):
I'm gonna make the trip, but I'm going to make
the trip in Air Force one and he's there with
this harem of beautiful women and he's drinking champagne and
he's very, very happy with the way things have turned.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Out lately on Earth.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They have lunch and they basically talk about like what's
going on. Diabate is like Carol is clearly stridently against
all of this, and she even says multiple times like
we've seen this movie right, Invasion of the Body Snatchers,
like bad, on and on and on, like this can't stand,
(16:54):
Like this is whatever's going on here, it must be wrong.
And Diabate is like, I don't know, like Earth at peace,
no racism, I have Air Force one, I.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Got horm beautiful, I got a hair all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, that love presumably to do whatever it is, like
I'm asking for creepy, very very creepy. Carol pushes back,
but it's not going well.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Zosia says to Carol, listen, this is not this is
not a violent It wasn't a violent takeover. It's just
everybody is following a kind of biological protocol and everybody's
like very happy the assimilation. We get more information about
the assimilation. It turns out that the military kind of
figured out somewhat sometime during the process like what was
(17:44):
going on, which meant that the hive mind like had
to escalate and go quickly and make sure that you know,
the people in bunkers like underground and in space, like
all those people were infected like in their early phases,
so they wouldn't have any like wars or anything. And
we get the number eight hundred and eighty six million
(18:05):
dead in the transition and an eleven million gone after
Carol's freaked out the first time, and unfortunately, Carol freaks
out again because all the survivors are at best just
kind of like rolling with it, and at worst either
like diabaatee, like fully on board with it or kind
(18:30):
of blinding themselves to what really is. And so Carol
screams in the midst of dinner she's drinking like mad,
like she needs to get that out very clearly. She's
an alcoholic, right and this is not helping. But she flipped,
she falls, and when the hive mind tries to like
help her, she flips out like get away from me,
(18:51):
don't touch me, and they all collapse. The entire high
mind collapses once again, killing untold millions. By morning, it's
it's only Diabate and Zosha. And Zosha's like, listen with
your permission. Excuse me, Diabate says to Carol, listen with
(19:12):
your permission. I would like to take Zosha with me.
I've been talking to her all night, by the way,
and I find her to be charming and beautiful, and
I would love to add her to my harem. You
don't even know her name. You've been calling her I
forget what he she was calling her.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Like she doesn't know what's going on. She's not doing
like a good job connecting, and she wants to go.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And then so Carol's like, well, let me talk to Zosha.
And Zusha comes over and is like yeah, like I'm
I'm happy to accompany him if you say it's okay,
I don't want you. And then Carol is like, this
is a very I thought this was very important. Carol's like,
you decide. Susha's like, I can't decide because deciding would
put you to in conflict. I would be disappointing one
(19:52):
of you. And we learn through this that the hive
mind really really cannot It's a lot like chat GPT.
I tell you, it can't tell you like no or
I don't like that it's always gonna be very It
wants to please and.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
To use it more and to be more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yes, So Carol's disgusted with this, and she's like, fly
me home.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I'm leaving.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You can go with him. But she she locks eyes
like through her plane window, like as she's leaving, she
sees Zosha like boarding her first one. She locks eyes
with her and decides, I'm stopping this. She runs in
front of Air Force one, stops the plane and that's
the end of episode two. Seek a quick break and
come back. This fascinating show. Yeah, we're back. I love
(20:54):
how mysterious Apple TV kept this because.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
They did the right thing. So many people of the
meled me about this pilot because they had no idea.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I think that was the right move because I think
kind of allah severance. The more you would tell people,
because there's so many tropes involved in this, right like
the way that you would log line elevator pitch, this
would basically reduce it to tropes. You know, there's an
(21:23):
alien virus and people. Yeah I've mind and but but
you know there's some people who are immune, and it
would reduce the show to its parts in a way
that I think would not do well to sell, like
how interesting it is, and it really is a fascinating
I was, I'm all in, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, I love this idea because something I think is
so interesting is the essential kind of bass pitch is
like what if the worst, most angriest person in the
world had to save everyone from being happy?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Right?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
But I love one Recijorn. She's a genius, so I
love that. Vince was like, I'm definitely getting her the Emmy.
But also there's just so much complexity in these first
two episodes, this kind of wrinkle that he adds in,
this insane, bombastic wrinkle of like, well, she can't be
angry because that will kill people, So then that starts
(22:20):
to become about her having to immediately change her behaviors.
I also love something I've thought for a long time
that had not been done properly in a kind of
dystopian space is like, you know, we've gotten the comedy
version of say a zombie land, where it's like I'm
eating twinkies, I'm driving in a tank. But I've always
felt like there's gonna be people in a situation like
(22:42):
that who are flying Air Force one who are taking
dates to the Eiffel empty Eiffel Tower and stuff like that.
So I love that Vince and Apple went big enough
that within the first two episodes you're in multiple countries
and you feel like, Okay, well, yeah, this is what
it would be like. You're not a bystander. You are
essentially now the focus of the hive mind. Because there's
(23:04):
only eleven of years. So the hive mind's job is
to make you happy no matter what and make you
ignore what's going on. AKA. When I was watching this
this morning, rewatching it, it was I realized how much
of a statement it obviously is on like social media
and algorithms and stuff, and this kind of notion of
like you can always be happy, there's something to distract
(23:26):
you when even when the most horrific thing, like aside
from obviously the infection around the world and the Hive mind,
she lost the woman she loved in that moment, or
at least the only woman she'd been close to, you know,
and that to me getting to see her having to
like deal with that anger and then now that kind
of moral choice at the end of episode two of
(23:49):
like I'm not letting them leave like, whatever happens, this
is going to be my turning point. How do we
work it out? And obviously it's also because they want,
you know, the three of them to be together for
the next episode, which I'm very excited to see because
this is a great trio. I think one of the
craziest things about this show is it is very impossible
(24:11):
to see where it's going next. And I love this
because that's absolutely what the first two were. Kind of
the first episodes set you up in that way if
you're never going to know what's happening. But oftentimes even
with a surprise drop or a surprise pilot, let you know,
for example, Yellowjackets, right once they're there, you know they're
not getting out of the forest. You know something spooky's
(24:33):
going to happen. Blah blah blah. This show could end
up in space within like the next episode, and you
have no idea. I'm so excited to see where else
Vince goes with this because he's been so you know,
virulently anti AI as a creative response and to call
it a plagiarism machine. He's talked a lot about his
(24:53):
feelings about social media and stuff, so I just feel
like this is a really interesting take on all of that. Well,
are you most excited to see going forward.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Just where it's going to go?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
To your point, I don't. I've of course, I like
empathize with Carol's desire to like end all this, I think,
And I think on just kind of a base level,
she's right, like this you keep you can't suddenly have
a harem and think exactly fine, right, And I don't
(25:31):
care what the hive mind says like this is. And
I think Carol makes a good point when I didn't
catch the woman's name who who she was mainly kind
of arguing with the woman who is there with her
mom and her.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Son, who were actually in the hive mind, right, which
is really.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And and the woman was like, this is my son,
this is my son. This is my son. And she's like, oh, yeah,
it's your son. And she begins asking him. I'm like, oh,
how would you do a pelvic exam, like as a gynecologist,
since you're every gnecologist that was alive. And he begins
answering these questions and it really disturbs this woman. And
(26:12):
you know, when you it's clear that there's something beyond
just like human morality going on, Like at some point,
like that compass has to kick in, It still must
kick in despite what this.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Is the hive mind? How do you exist when you
are part of the hive mind? Is are we going
to get a glimpse of the kind of existential terra
of being controlled by them?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And I'm left wondering again, I think that I get
Carol's mission to like stop this or cure everybody. I
have no idea how it's possible that she could do it,
like if that's where the show goes eventually, however many
seasons downlined it she she cures it. I can't even
(27:00):
imagine right now how it would be possible.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And I think that there's also like a lot of
really fascinating like different threads to pull out, so I
can I can't wait to see where this shows. For instance,
you know, if you if you're one of these, if
you're this guy from Mauritania and Diavante, Like why can't
(27:26):
we have fun with it? Like what is exactly the problem?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Now?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I'm not making excuses.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
For him, no, but that like be mindsets like that,
especially if you were already somebody who had a lot
of access to stuff. You're like, well, now there's no
one else. Essentially, I was living eleven survivors.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
You would love to put things back the way it
was because you were, you know, one of the privileged drivative. Yeah,
in the in the in the days before this, but
now you know, like I would like to enjoy this.
So you get where he's coming from. I'm I just
can't imagine to your point, I can't imagine where this is.
(28:02):
That's why I think is so amazing.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
And also, guys, I'm just gonna tell you this. I
know this is crazy. Jason mentioned his wife not a
fan of sci fi. This is if you were given
the chance to go back and watch Breaking Bad when
it first debuted on AMC, would you want to be
in from the beginning, Yes, you would. This is your
chance to be in on that next show. Like Apple
is going to commit to this. This is an incredible
looking show, such a high concept idea, and Vince is
(28:27):
obviously like a killer TV maker, So yeah, very fun.
It's going to be really great to keep extening.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
What I think is cool is like Vince mining his
X Files experience, you know, like it was a big
time writer, producer, on The X Files. Yeah, responsible for
many episodes, and the thing that for me, at least
his work on Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. The
thing that is to me his kind of stylistic signature
(28:58):
is putting characters into situations where they have to make
some insane painting them into a corner and they have
to make some insane choice that you can't even imagine
how they got out of it Breaking Bad. What I
loved about it was Walt was in that corner, painted
in time and time and time and time again, and
all the ways he got out of it never, not
(29:20):
a single one of them ever felt like disx makna.
It always felt like he earned his way out of it.
And it was a surprise. If Gilligan can like recapture
that kind of thing in this show, I can't I
can't wait to see me Like I what are you? Do?
You have anybody I have? Like?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
You know me? I'm a theory guy. But I think
the way that they pitched this show, the way they
market it, and the surprise of what it's truly about,
makes me think like he's not just this is not
going to be predictable. Also, this is something he's been
working on for ten years, and I just want to
say as well, Ari Breaking Bad, Right, I was watching
an episode of it last night randomly on the AMC
(30:02):
like kind of Stories channel, which is like a fast
channel they have now, and they randomly were showing at
season two episode thirteen, Right, dude, I was watching that,
and I was just thinking, like, Skyla was so young
and so beautiful in that show. When you're our age
and you watch it now, you're like, oh my god,
she was like incredible and he didn't understand. And it's
(30:23):
so funny because so much of the conversation of that
show was like, oh, Skylar was such a bomb, she's
such a downer, Like let him just like do his thing, man.
And I feel like Vince has always had this much
more complicated insight into the human kind of condition that
even at the time, maybe people weren't taking from Breaking Bad,
(30:45):
you know, when it was kind of seen as a
badass kind of indie movie show. But by the end,
then when you get that reveal with you know, I
am the one who knocks and everything, then you realize, like,
oh no, if you were picking up on the fact
that Skyla was right, she was right, like at every point,
and that's why I'm most excited to see is like
what happens with Carol? What is she right about? What
(31:06):
is wrong about? How does this happen? Because also as well,
I love that this is Vince going very comic Bookie
in its own way, because like the eleven immune Individuals
is very umbrella academy. No. Nine kids born all around
the world at the same time, and this kind of
how do these people connect, what do they do? My
(31:27):
most thing I'm most excited about probably is meeting the
other survivors who don't speak English.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
What I'm excited by is Gillian has painted himself into
a corner in this show in an interesting way in
that like listen Breaking Down and saw incredible suspense thrillers.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
That leaned heavily on.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
The feeling like an like a violent explosion was coming.
This conflict, whether it's a conflict between you know, great
Way Alamarca and and Walter or you know whoever and Walter,
like you could feel like trains. It was so towards
each other at old times in this show. The hive
(32:11):
mind cannot be violent towards you could like Diabat could
not be like you know what Carol's going to be
a problem. Go hey, Hive Mind, kill her. They won't
do it. They will only do things that are peaceful.
In fact, they go so far as to not want
to disappoint anyone, even like hurt their feelings.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
How do.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
So?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
How will conflict happen? And how can that be resolved?
If not violently?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
What are the other workarounds?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Like? You know, listen, here's there's a world in which
if Carol wanted to take out Diabate And I don't
think this is gonna happen. This is to you, this
is I'm not a Vince Gilligan. Is Vince Gilligan a genie?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But you know, Diabate gets on our first one. He
flies away, and Carol decides, okay, now let me go
scream at Zosha. She fritzes out the Hive Mind and
his plane crashes exactly But how because I must? I
feel like there will be conflict within the survivors. There
has to be. How do you resolve it without them
(33:16):
being able to even really yell at each other? It's
gonna be interesting. That part of it is going to
be real. I can't wait to see how that happens.
Because that's kind of I mean, talk about putting yourself
in handcuffs.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
That is like, I got wait, it's gonna be so
interesting to see how he navigates that exact.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Thing, and as ian Is is saying in the group chat,
season two already greenlit, and yeah, I can't wait like it.
It just brings up a lot of interesting questions about
free will, like is this free will? They the hive
mind will tell you that it's doing everything that it
(33:58):
wants to do. At the same time, as Carol points out,
they didn't ask permission to infect everybody. They just did it.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
They didn't come down and pose it. You know what's that?
It's like, you know, extinction hive mind is just extinction
with better pr or something. You know, no consent kind
of peace without consent is a hive mind with better
pr like.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
And so one wonders, and one wonders also like what
is the why do this? Like what That's what I
want to is the point? Like why did whoever? Why
did the beings beings that built the signal and built
the infrastructure to send the signal?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Why did they do it?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And why did they do it this way where it's
making everyone happy instead of making everyone just like kill themselves.
My guess is, like you need workers. That's kind of
you need some if you have a hive mind. The
implication is there's usually some kind of worker situation. Now,
I'm going to put out a crazy theory. I do
not think this is it, but I'm just saying we're
talking about hive mind. The entire show is like colored.
(35:00):
It's yellow coded. Maybe there's some kind of be analogy
or some kind of alien hive that's a bit more
like textual, but I don't know, and that is rare
for us. So Vince Gilligan, thank you for giving us
a show that we don't know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, we don't know where it's gonna go. Can't wait
to keep following this show, and it's gonna be a
fun one. On the next episode of Xtra Vision, we're
diving into Stranger Things to get you ready for the
final season of Stranger Things. Whether you've seen every episode
or just need a refresher, you've never seen a single episode,
We're gonna get you to the point where you're ready
(35:34):
for this final season.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. By X
ray Vision is hosted by.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Jason Concepcion and Rosie Night and is a production of
iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dian Jonathan A Bee Wag.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator.
Warning. Today's episode contains spoilers for the new Vince Gilligan
sci fi show on Apple TV, plus Pluribus episodes one
and two.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You won't Hello.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
My name is Jason Kntepsion.
Speaker 4 (00:26):
Hello, I'm Rosy night, and welcome back to.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Extra Vision of the podcast where we dive you but to
your favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Coming to you from My Heart Podcast. We'll bring you
three episodes a weeks listeners.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
In today's episode, we talked about it with former Rolling
Stone critic Alan Sepenwall. We tease that a little bit,
but now we're able to dig fully into the absolutely
wild Pluribus episodes one and two on Apple TV. Now, guys,
just before we jump into that super crazy, unexpected pilot,
(00:59):
a quick production this holiday season, we are going to
be sharing some short stocking stuff for episodes with you.
With so many great shows and movies coming out these
next few months, these episodes will help us cover some
extra content we wouldn't usually be able to get onto
on our normal episodes, So stay tuned for our stocking
stuff as starting the week of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
But first, Glory of bus I'm one too. The pilot
opens with a counter showing that it is some four
hundred and fifty plus days before the beginning of the
actual show, so over a year before the events that
we will see. Scientists discover that there's a message that's
(01:44):
been beamed in the direction of Earth, and it's been
going for an unknown amount of time. It's coming from
six hundred light years away, and it certainly seems intelligent
in origin, and everybody's very interested in this. When they
discover it, one thing leads to another. It turns out
(02:04):
that this message is divided into four parts, and each part,
a guy figures out, is a representative of one of
the protein ingredients for DNA, So it turns out to
be a recipe for like an RNA strand, a strand
of protein. Fast forward about a year later after this,
(02:27):
but approximately fifty days or something like that before the
events of the show. Military doctors at the United States
Army Military Research Intelligence Division, I think that's correct, you,
sam Rid, which I know about because of Stephen King's
the stand have succeeded in creating this recipe which infectious
(02:49):
diseases to get United States Army Military Research infectious diseases
something and thank you. Ian super producer ian. So they
make this protein, which is.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
That a good idea?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
But they make it.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
I feel like it's not a good idea, Like, let's
be real happen.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Yeah, they would definitely make it, and they're trying to
be I guess as safe as possible. They're making it.
They've been trying it out on animals, but they don't
see like any.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Effects at all. Like you.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
They're injecting into different species, but nothing's happening. And they
have this big bank of like rats, and there's these
two doctors in there doing the day's tasks with you know,
injecting this protein and seeing what happens. And they notice
that one of the rats is dead, and so they
take it out and they're looking at it and it's
like the heart is pumping really strong, but it's just
(03:41):
like stunned. And this doctor takes off their gloves so
they can feel the pulse of the rat, which I
feel like, there's got to be a better way to
do it. But whatever, take off the gloves, I fail.
Never take off the glove. The rat bites the person
and the virus has entered the human population. This doctor
quickly goes about infecting the doctor that she is in
(04:04):
the lab with and infecting, and they both go about
infecting people throughout the facility, and very very quickly the
facility falls like within a night or so easily easily,
and all the people who have been infected are now
like working together part of a hive mind, we will discover,
so sharing a kind of consciousness, and they begin working
(04:27):
together happily to like box up the samples of this
protein and begin mailing it to different labs across the
military labs we will later find out an episode two,
and also like licking the doughnuts down in the lobby
so that everybody who comes in and you know, including
people who were at work today, will eventually become infected.
(04:51):
And as this is going on, we meet author Carol
Stirka in the midst of a book tour. She's kind
of like like a down market Diana Galbadon.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, I was gonna say, it's it's big like Apple
book energy kind of.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
But not the top shelf.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
As no, no, no, this is this is the low
If you sold out a fourth wing, this is what
you pick up next.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Right, she is like below Diana Galbadon below Sarah J.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Moss. Oh, definitely she's like, you know, like thirtieth on
the Chops.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Right, Yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Carol's fans are very ardent, and they're mostly like these
kind of you know, like white, very romance centric white ladies,
with a few like very very very dedicated like nerds.
And Carol's feelings about her work are clearly very complex.
(05:53):
She doesn't think it's very artful or very like authentic
to who she is as a creator, as an artist,
but you know, it's work, and she's successful, and she's
in a relationship with her manager, Helen, who is on
tour with her, but also she is keeping that part
(06:15):
of her life like deeply under wraps in order to
keep selling books. Like the main romance in the books
is it's a very it's a hetero romance with this
kind of sexy figure known as Rabond. All these white
women Rabon who all these ladies like love RoboN. But
(06:37):
we're going to find out that originally Carol wanted Rabond
to be a woman because that would be again more
authentic to her, but then she decided not to and
she feels like she's sold.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Out because of this.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
About a week later, Carolyn Helen are returning from tour,
Helen clearly has many dwi's on her record. Because she
needs a breathalyzer to start her car. They stop at
a bar.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
I had no idea this was the thing.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
By the way, until the show, it is a thing.
It's a real thing. I like, it's a real thing.
So they stop at a bar. They're discussing Carol's career,
which again she's kind of like dissatisfied with. They notice
outside that there's these planes flying overhead in perfect like
parallel lines. Probably I'm guessing military planes that are dropping
(07:18):
the virus like in aerosol form, like from the air,
And very soon everybody begins falling sick, just like everybody
in the Samurid facility.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
They like go into.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
This convulsion and then they come out as part of
the hot mind. Helen, when she's becoming infected, falls and
hits her head like really hard. She eventually dies of
brain bleed. Carol is like trying to get her to
the hospital, and every time she's trying to get to
it's like a problem, one problem after another. She can't
start the car because the breathalyser. She has to take
(07:49):
another guy's car. She struggles Helen into the pickup truck.
She gets there at the hospital, everybody's infected. A doctor
tries to infect her by kissing her and very clearly
doesn't work. Carol eventually ends up back home and has
to leave Helen's body outside, and she turns on the
TV is relieved to see a government emergency broadcast hosted
(08:10):
by a guy who turns out as the under Secretary
of Agriculture, like fifteenth down the bay whatever everyone else
is somewhere else.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
As soon as I saw that, I was like, it's
giving you know, designated leader or whatever that.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
So she's Carol is relieved that the government appears to
be going, but then she's disturbed when she notices like
all the graphics on the screen are addressing her by name,
Like Caroll just calls everything that's gonna be okay.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
She calls the number.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
This guy, his name is Davis Tafler, the Undersecretary of
agg and he addresses her like in the broadcast, addresses
her phone call like he's listening to her, and he's like, listen,
sorry about everything that's happening, So sorry about Helen, Sorry about.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Everybody that's died.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Long story short, like this alien broadcast, you know, was
a recipe for a virus, and we're all infected with
the virus and now we're very happy because we're all
like this unified hive mind. And by the way, anything
you need like food, medicine, whatever, Like we want this
to be as comfortable and peacefullow transition transition for you
(09:20):
as possible, Like don't whatever you want to do, you
can do, but like we suggest you don't wander around
too much because we're cleaning up all the dead bodies.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
In the streets.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
And we're so sorry about this, but like everything's gonna
be fine after this, peace on Earth, the whole thing.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
And where's the president.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
The president unfortunately passed away during the transition, along with
many other high ranking members of your government. But you
are immune for some reason. We're studying it, and there's
twelve other people that are immune just like you, and
we're going to figure that out.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And Carol like flips out and hangs up, as Davis
is like on the TV being like Carol.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
Carol'll pick up.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
We just want to talk to you, Carroll pick up.
That is a pilot.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
I wassilarly Bunker's pilot so well, mockted. I've had so
many messages about this pilot.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Quite intriguing. My wife, who's not a sci fi person,
was into it. Let's go to a quick break. We'll
come back recap episode two and then talk about our
thoughts about this show so much. Pluribus Episode two, The
(10:36):
Hive and the Body. We open in Tangiers, over in
the North Africa, and you know, it's the same issue everywhere,
not going great. You know, stuff's on fire, but the
Hive Mind people are putting you know, putting out the
fires and collecting the dead bodies, of which there are
(10:57):
a lot. We see this woman who we will eventually
learned his named Zosia, although does that really matter in
this time when they all have the High Mind.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Is helping clear corpses.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And then she hops on a plane to go to Albuquerque,
where Vince Gillian loves to set all his shows, and
she goes basically to meet Carol. Carol is at home
in New Mexico, and she's like burying Helen, trying to bury,
digging grave, trying to bury Helen in the backyard. Very
earth is very hard. It's a very difficult go of it.
(11:28):
And in the middle of all this, Zosha appears cleaned up,
you know, she having taken a shower at the airport,
basically saying, hey, I'm from the Hive Mind. How are
you and do you need any water? We're worried about
your about your hydration. I am every medical doctor on earth,
(11:49):
and I can look at you and I can tell
you're dehydrated.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Also, you've been watching.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
You from a from a reaper drone high above, high
above your house, just to make sure if you're okay.
Carol throws away the water bottle, believing I, you know,
I get it, believing that perhaps it's poisoned.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
Or never have found.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
She. Carol notices something about Zosha, and that is that
clearly the Hive Mind selected her because she very much
resembles She goes inside and gets a copy of her
latest book from inside, brings it out, holds it up
to Zosha, and it's very clear that Zosha was selected
because she looks very much like a female version of Rabond.
Speaker 4 (12:37):
Something only Carol knew.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Wickero novels right, only Carol, only Helen. Only Carol knows currently.
But Helen knew before she died, of course, that Carol
wanted Rabond to be a woman and struggled with that
for a while, and here is you know, the visual
representation of female rabond Zsha is like, by the way,
(13:00):
Helen is very happy with us. She was only alive
for a few moments during the transition, but in those moments,
and if you recall in the pilot, you see her
smile in these final as she's passing away, and in
the moment I read it as she sees Carol and
(13:21):
is able to pass away peacefully because she's seen the
person she loves. But what probably happened is she was
finding peace and satisfaction as a member of the Hive
Mind collective. And Carol is so mad at this. She
tells Zoshita fuck off, and she's so angry. And you aliens,
you motherfucker? Is this that and the other? And her anger,
(13:45):
we discover in this moment, has the ability to short
circuit people infected with the virus, and not just like
one of them, the entire biomass of infected humans on
the planet, the Hive Mind, that's like four We find
out that they've about a billion let's round it up
(14:05):
to a billion people have died, but like eight hundred
million died in the initial transition. So there's like four
whatever it is, five billion people like on Earth, and
they all collapse because Carol's never frozen. Yes, Carol realizes
that she had some kind of hand in this, and
as she's driving across town, realizes that like all the
people that she sees are having this convulsion. She's trying
(14:29):
to save people's lives. She trying to get a guy
down from like a cherry picker, and it's just it's
just stressful and exhausting. But when they come back, it's fine,
everything's fine. They're not mad at her. They just go
about their peaceful, weird, hive mind lives. Zosha is gone,
and Carol, exhausted, calls the numbers she saw on TV,
(14:51):
which you know, basically gives the High Mind permission for
them to retrieve her. Zosha comes back and is like, listen,
you accidentally killed a few a few people, maybe how many,
I don't know, like a couple of million, millions, Like
we find out I think the number is eleven. Yeah,
in this episode, So that's really troubling. That's very disturbing.
(15:14):
Carol is horrified, but also chastened now kind of realizing
like I need to get at this is all so
stressful and traumatic, but I got to get a grip.
She wants to finish Helen's grave by herself, but Sosha's like,
let us help you, and she brings in like this
fucking earth mover to dig up the soil and try
and like, and they bring in by helicopter. It's incredible.
(15:37):
All the resources of earth basically are at Carol's disposal
if she should so want it. That night, Carol is like, well,
I heard that there's the other uninfected. I would like
to speak to them, the twelve of them. Zosha flies
Carol to bill Bao in Spain, and Carol meets four
of them there, each from a different country, along with
(16:00):
their families, each traveling with you know, their love. Their
loved ones are now part of the collective, but like
they clearly it makes the uninfected happy to have them around.
And then the fifth survivor shows up, Diabate from Mauritania,
and mister Diabate, a very elegant French speaking man, comes
onboard Air Force one and he's late because he was like, well,
(16:22):
I'm gonna make the trip, but I'm going to make
the trip in Air Force one and he's there with
this harem of beautiful women and he's drinking champagne and
he's very, very happy with the way things have turned.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Out lately on Earth.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They have lunch and they basically talk about like what's
going on. Diabate is like Carol is clearly stridently against
all of this, and she even says multiple times like
we've seen this movie right, Invasion of the Body Snatchers,
like bad, on and on and on, like this can't stand,
(16:54):
Like this is whatever's going on here, it must be wrong.
And Diabate is like, I don't know, like Earth at peace,
no racism, I have Air Force one, I.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Got horm beautiful, I got a hair all the time.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, that love presumably to do whatever it is, like
I'm asking for creepy, very very creepy. Carol pushes back,
but it's not going well.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Zosia says to Carol, listen, this is not this is
not a violent It wasn't a violent takeover. It's just
everybody is following a kind of biological protocol and everybody's
like very happy the assimilation. We get more information about
the assimilation. It turns out that the military kind of
figured out somewhat sometime during the process like what was
(17:44):
going on, which meant that the hive mind like had
to escalate and go quickly and make sure that you know,
the people in bunkers like underground and in space, like
all those people were infected like in their early phases,
so they wouldn't have any like wars or anything. And
we get the number eight hundred and eighty six million
(18:05):
dead in the transition and an eleven million gone after
Carol's freaked out the first time, and unfortunately, Carol freaks
out again because all the survivors are at best just
kind of like rolling with it, and at worst either
like diabaatee, like fully on board with it or kind
(18:30):
of blinding themselves to what really is. And so Carol
screams in the midst of dinner she's drinking like mad,
like she needs to get that out very clearly. She's
an alcoholic, right and this is not helping. But she flipped,
she falls, and when the hive mind tries to like
help her, she flips out like get away from me,
(18:51):
don't touch me, and they all collapse. The entire high
mind collapses once again, killing untold millions. By morning, it's
it's only Diabate and Zosha. And Zosha's like, listen with
your permission. Excuse me, Diabate says to Carol, listen with
(19:12):
your permission. I would like to take Zosha with me.
I've been talking to her all night, by the way,
and I find her to be charming and beautiful, and
I would love to add her to my harem. You
don't even know her name. You've been calling her I
forget what he she was calling her.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Like she doesn't know what's going on. She's not doing
like a good job connecting, and she wants to go.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
And then so Carol's like, well, let me talk to Zosha.
And Zusha comes over and is like yeah, like I'm
I'm happy to accompany him if you say it's okay,
I don't want you. And then Carol is like, this
is a very I thought this was very important. Carol's like,
you decide. Susha's like, I can't decide because deciding would
put you to in conflict. I would be disappointing one
(19:52):
of you. And we learn through this that the hive
mind really really cannot It's a lot like chat GPT.
I tell you, it can't tell you like no or
I don't like that it's always gonna be very It
wants to please and.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
To use it more and to be more comfortable.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yes, So Carol's disgusted with this, and she's like, fly
me home.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
I'm leaving.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
You can go with him. But she she locks eyes
like through her plane window, like as she's leaving, she
sees Zosha like boarding her first one. She locks eyes
with her and decides, I'm stopping this. She runs in
front of Air Force one, stops the plane and that's
the end of episode two. Seek a quick break and
come back. This fascinating show. Yeah, we're back. I love
(20:54):
how mysterious Apple TV kept this because.
Speaker 4 (20:57):
They did the right thing. So many people of the
meled me about this pilot because they had no idea.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
I think that was the right move because I think
kind of allah severance. The more you would tell people,
because there's so many tropes involved in this, right like
the way that you would log line elevator pitch, this
would basically reduce it to tropes. You know, there's an
(21:23):
alien virus and people. Yeah I've mind and but but
you know there's some people who are immune, and it
would reduce the show to its parts in a way
that I think would not do well to sell, like
how interesting it is, and it really is a fascinating
I was, I'm all in, what do you think?
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Yeah, I love this idea because something I think is
so interesting is the essential kind of bass pitch is
like what if the worst, most angriest person in the
world had to save everyone from being happy?
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Right?
Speaker 4 (21:59):
But I love one Recijorn. She's a genius, so I
love that. Vince was like, I'm definitely getting her the Emmy.
But also there's just so much complexity in these first
two episodes, this kind of wrinkle that he adds in,
this insane, bombastic wrinkle of like, well, she can't be
angry because that will kill people, So then that starts
(22:20):
to become about her having to immediately change her behaviors.
I also love something I've thought for a long time
that had not been done properly in a kind of
dystopian space is like, you know, we've gotten the comedy
version of say a zombie land, where it's like I'm
eating twinkies, I'm driving in a tank. But I've always
felt like there's gonna be people in a situation like
(22:42):
that who are flying Air Force one who are taking
dates to the Eiffel empty Eiffel Tower and stuff like that.
So I love that Vince and Apple went big enough
that within the first two episodes you're in multiple countries
and you feel like, Okay, well, yeah, this is what
it would be like. You're not a bystander. You are
essentially now the focus of the hive mind. Because there's
(23:04):
only eleven of years. So the hive mind's job is
to make you happy no matter what and make you
ignore what's going on. AKA. When I was watching this
this morning, rewatching it, it was I realized how much
of a statement it obviously is on like social media
and algorithms and stuff, and this kind of notion of
like you can always be happy, there's something to distract
(23:26):
you when even when the most horrific thing, like aside
from obviously the infection around the world and the Hive mind,
she lost the woman she loved in that moment, or
at least the only woman she'd been close to, you know,
and that to me getting to see her having to
like deal with that anger and then now that kind
of moral choice at the end of episode two of
(23:49):
like I'm not letting them leave like, whatever happens, this
is going to be my turning point. How do we
work it out? And obviously it's also because they want,
you know, the three of them to be together for
the next episode, which I'm very excited to see because
this is a great trio. I think one of the
craziest things about this show is it is very impossible
(24:11):
to see where it's going next. And I love this
because that's absolutely what the first two were. Kind of
the first episodes set you up in that way if
you're never going to know what's happening. But oftentimes even
with a surprise drop or a surprise pilot, let you know,
for example, Yellowjackets, right once they're there, you know they're
not getting out of the forest. You know something spooky's
(24:33):
going to happen. Blah blah blah. This show could end
up in space within like the next episode, and you
have no idea. I'm so excited to see where else
Vince goes with this because he's been so you know,
virulently anti AI as a creative response and to call
it a plagiarism machine. He's talked a lot about his
(24:53):
feelings about social media and stuff, so I just feel
like this is a really interesting take on all of that. Well,
are you most excited to see going forward.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Just where it's going to go?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
To your point, I don't. I've of course, I like
empathize with Carol's desire to like end all this, I think,
And I think on just kind of a base level,
she's right, like this you keep you can't suddenly have
a harem and think exactly fine, right, And I don't
(25:31):
care what the hive mind says like this is. And
I think Carol makes a good point when I didn't
catch the woman's name who who she was mainly kind
of arguing with the woman who is there with her
mom and her.
Speaker 4 (25:47):
Son, who were actually in the hive mind, right, which
is really.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
And and the woman was like, this is my son,
this is my son. This is my son. And she's like, oh, yeah,
it's your son. And she begins asking him. I'm like, oh,
how would you do a pelvic exam, like as a gynecologist,
since you're every gnecologist that was alive. And he begins
answering these questions and it really disturbs this woman. And
(26:12):
you know, when you it's clear that there's something beyond
just like human morality going on, Like at some point,
like that compass has to kick in, It still must
kick in despite what this.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Is the hive mind? How do you exist when you
are part of the hive mind? Is are we going
to get a glimpse of the kind of existential terra
of being controlled by them?
Speaker 1 (26:40):
And I'm left wondering again, I think that I get
Carol's mission to like stop this or cure everybody. I
have no idea how it's possible that she could do it,
like if that's where the show goes eventually, however many
seasons downlined it she she cures it. I can't even
(27:00):
imagine right now how it would be possible.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
To do that.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
And I think that there's also like a lot of
really fascinating like different threads to pull out, so I
can I can't wait to see where this shows. For instance,
you know, if you if you're one of these, if
you're this guy from Mauritania and Diavante, Like why can't
(27:26):
we have fun with it? Like what is exactly the problem?
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Now?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I'm not making excuses.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
For him, no, but that like be mindsets like that,
especially if you were already somebody who had a lot
of access to stuff. You're like, well, now there's no
one else. Essentially, I was living eleven survivors.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
You would love to put things back the way it
was because you were, you know, one of the privileged drivative. Yeah,
in the in the in the days before this, but
now you know, like I would like to enjoy this.
So you get where he's coming from. I'm I just
can't imagine to your point, I can't imagine where this is.
(28:02):
That's why I think is so amazing.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
And also, guys, I'm just gonna tell you this. I
know this is crazy. Jason mentioned his wife not a
fan of sci fi. This is if you were given
the chance to go back and watch Breaking Bad when
it first debuted on AMC, would you want to be
in from the beginning, Yes, you would. This is your
chance to be in on that next show. Like Apple
is going to commit to this. This is an incredible
looking show, such a high concept idea, and Vince is
(28:27):
obviously like a killer TV maker, So yeah, very fun.
It's going to be really great to keep extening.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
What I think is cool is like Vince mining his
X Files experience, you know, like it was a big
time writer, producer, on The X Files. Yeah, responsible for
many episodes, and the thing that for me, at least
his work on Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. The
thing that is to me his kind of stylistic signature
(28:58):
is putting characters into situations where they have to make
some insane painting them into a corner and they have
to make some insane choice that you can't even imagine
how they got out of it Breaking Bad. What I
loved about it was Walt was in that corner, painted
in time and time and time and time again, and
all the ways he got out of it never, not
(29:20):
a single one of them ever felt like disx makna.
It always felt like he earned his way out of it.
And it was a surprise. If Gilligan can like recapture
that kind of thing in this show, I can't I
can't wait to see me Like I what are you? Do?
You have anybody I have? Like?
Speaker 4 (29:40):
You know me? I'm a theory guy. But I think
the way that they pitched this show, the way they
market it, and the surprise of what it's truly about,
makes me think like he's not just this is not
going to be predictable. Also, this is something he's been
working on for ten years, and I just want to
say as well, Ari Breaking Bad, Right, I was watching
an episode of it last night randomly on the AMC
(30:02):
like kind of Stories channel, which is like a fast
channel they have now, and they randomly were showing at
season two episode thirteen, Right, dude, I was watching that,
and I was just thinking, like, Skyla was so young
and so beautiful in that show. When you're our age
and you watch it now, you're like, oh my god,
she was like incredible and he didn't understand. And it's
(30:23):
so funny because so much of the conversation of that
show was like, oh, Skylar was such a bomb, she's
such a downer, Like let him just like do his thing, man.
And I feel like Vince has always had this much
more complicated insight into the human kind of condition that
even at the time, maybe people weren't taking from Breaking Bad,
(30:45):
you know, when it was kind of seen as a
badass kind of indie movie show. But by the end,
then when you get that reveal with you know, I
am the one who knocks and everything, then you realize, like,
oh no, if you were picking up on the fact
that Skyla was right, she was right, like at every point,
and that's why I'm most excited to see is like
what happens with Carol? What is she right about? What
(31:06):
is wrong about? How does this happen? Because also as well,
I love that this is Vince going very comic Bookie
in its own way, because like the eleven immune Individuals
is very umbrella academy. No. Nine kids born all around
the world at the same time, and this kind of
how do these people connect, what do they do? My
(31:27):
most thing I'm most excited about probably is meeting the
other survivors who don't speak English.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
What I'm excited by is Gillian has painted himself into
a corner in this show in an interesting way in
that like listen Breaking Down and saw incredible suspense thrillers.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
That leaned heavily on.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
The feeling like an like a violent explosion was coming.
This conflict, whether it's a conflict between you know, great
Way Alamarca and and Walter or you know whoever and Walter,
like you could feel like trains. It was so towards
each other at old times in this show. The hive
(32:11):
mind cannot be violent towards you could like Diabat could
not be like you know what Carol's going to be
a problem. Go hey, Hive Mind, kill her. They won't
do it. They will only do things that are peaceful.
In fact, they go so far as to not want
to disappoint anyone, even like hurt their feelings.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
How do.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
So?
Speaker 1 (32:34):
How will conflict happen? And how can that be resolved?
If not violently?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
What are the other workarounds?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Like? You know, listen, here's there's a world in which
if Carol wanted to take out Diabate And I don't
think this is gonna happen. This is to you, this
is I'm not a Vince Gilligan. Is Vince Gilligan a genie?
Speaker 3 (32:53):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:54):
But you know, Diabate gets on our first one. He
flies away, and Carol decides, okay, now let me go
scream at Zosha. She fritzes out the Hive Mind and
his plane crashes exactly But how because I must? I
feel like there will be conflict within the survivors. There
has to be. How do you resolve it without them
(33:16):
being able to even really yell at each other? It's
gonna be interesting. That part of it is going to
be real. I can't wait to see how that happens.
Because that's kind of I mean, talk about putting yourself
in handcuffs.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
That is like, I got wait, it's gonna be so
interesting to see how he navigates that exact.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Thing, and as ian Is is saying in the group chat,
season two already greenlit, and yeah, I can't wait like it.
It just brings up a lot of interesting questions about
free will, like is this free will? They the hive
mind will tell you that it's doing everything that it
(33:58):
wants to do. At the same time, as Carol points out,
they didn't ask permission to infect everybody. They just did it.
Speaker 4 (34:05):
They didn't come down and pose it. You know what's that?
It's like, you know, extinction hive mind is just extinction
with better pr or something. You know, no consent kind
of peace without consent is a hive mind with better
pr like.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
And so one wonders, and one wonders also like what
is the why do this? Like what That's what I
want to is the point? Like why did whoever? Why
did the beings beings that built the signal and built
the infrastructure to send the signal?
Speaker 3 (34:36):
Why did they do it?
Speaker 4 (34:37):
And why did they do it this way where it's
making everyone happy instead of making everyone just like kill themselves.
My guess is, like you need workers. That's kind of
you need some if you have a hive mind. The
implication is there's usually some kind of worker situation. Now,
I'm going to put out a crazy theory. I do
not think this is it, but I'm just saying we're
talking about hive mind. The entire show is like colored.
(35:00):
It's yellow coded. Maybe there's some kind of be analogy
or some kind of alien hive that's a bit more
like textual, but I don't know, and that is rare
for us. So Vince Gilligan, thank you for giving us
a show that we don't know what's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, we don't know where it's gonna go. Can't wait
to keep following this show, and it's gonna be a
fun one. On the next episode of Xtra Vision, we're
diving into Stranger Things to get you ready for the
final season of Stranger Things. Whether you've seen every episode
or just need a refresher, you've never seen a single episode,
We're gonna get you to the point where you're ready
(35:34):
for this final season.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening. By X
ray Vision is hosted by.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Jason Concepcion and Rosie Night and is a production of
iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Korfman.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Our supervising producer is Abusafar.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Our producers are Common Laurent Dian Jonathan A Bee Wag.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator.
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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