May 12, 2025 • 43 mins
Ellie and Dina are out and about in Seattle, looking for trouble! Meanwhile the W.L.F and Seraphites duke it out and the hospital is on top of a giant mushroom breeding ground!! Why is no one talking about this!?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for episode five, season two
of the.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Last of Us, So watch that and then listen to
this or just listen to this.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello, my name is Jason, gets up to your own
heo on Wedsday Night and welcome back to x Ray
Vision of the podcast Where We Dive. They your favorite shows, movies,
comics of pop culture coming to you from my podcast
Where We Are You three episodes week every Tuesday, Wednesday,
and Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Plus in today's episode, guys, can you almost believe it?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Only three episodes left of this season.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Of the Last of Us and we are at that
third episode to the end episode five, we are going
to be breaking it down.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What's going on in Seattle?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
How does everywhere everyone get every were so fast? Is
this holding up to the game?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Is it too close to the game? Is it far
away from the game. We're all that and more so
let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
But first the Last of Us Episode five. You know,
I think that they're going to stop before they get
to Abby. I think they're going to break this into
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Right they There's no way they can get to her
right now, I.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Don't think so. Okay, here we go. We'll talk about
that later, Okay. We open up in one of the
WLF buildings where apparently barricades have been put up for
reasons that we're about to discover. Hand Rahan alna Ubach,
the Wonderful a lot of you Bach usually a comedic actor,
(01:35):
but very which is you know, a wonderful thing, is
inspecting these and she is interviewing a wolf named Park,
who is a leader of like this section, it's interesting
because we get the idea through this that the Wolves
(01:56):
are kind of like a federation of various war lords
where it seems like there's like a block leader or
a regional leader who is in control of a certain area,
and while Hanrahan is kind of like a higher up leader,
(02:16):
everybody's kind of like independently running their own little fifes,
it seems. And apparently Park ordered or caused the deaths
of some of her people, and so Hanrahan is asking
about that. It's due to some kind of orders that
(02:36):
Hanrahan had given Park. And this is an issue because
the Wolves and the Seraphyites are apparently getting ready to
go to war if they're not currently at war. We
saw last episode, like that battle that was going on
in the distance, and they're going to need their full strength.
Park her people were ordered to clear the hospital, which
(03:00):
is obviously a necessary building for the WLF, and they
sent a squad down to like one of the sub levels,
including one of Park's best people, Leon, who we will
find out is Park's Sun, And there was cordy steps
down there. There's in the air, but no one was
(03:20):
infected above, So like everybody feels pretty good that it's
the cordy SEPs infection, the spores that are contained in
the sub level but haven't seeped up to the upper
levels yet. And Leon breathed some of this in and
that is apparently why Park had to have her people killed,
because Leon and some other people got infected. It's in
(03:42):
the air, the Park says, and that's why the barricades
have been put up to seal the infection down there,
and some of the Wolf soldiers were trapped down there.
Nothing else has gotten out thus far, no one else
has gotten sick. So we're feeling the w life is
feeling reasonably confident.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Reasonably confident, probably too confident.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Hanrahan is like, we're not gonna tell anybody about this
We're gonna keep this quiet. We're gonna keep so people
don't panic. We need she's talking about how much they
need the hospital. Obviously that's an important building for them,
and so they're gonna keep using the hospital and not
tell anybody about this little incident. And also, I'm sorry
about your son, she says. It is Seattle day two
(04:27):
for Ellie and Dina. Dina is working up a plan
using her maps and her apparently talent for triangulating paths.
She's been listening to the radio a lot, so she's
getting a lot of information from the wolves themselves. Ellie
goes down to the base. When she gets the lights on,
there's like a natural gas generator there. You get the
(04:49):
feeling like and now this is one of those first
things where it's like in the game, this makes sense
in the show. I'm like, what the wolves see this? Like,
won't this straw tend anyway? They get the rights on.
Ellie explores the performance hall where there's amps and guitars.
It seems like like a performance was about to take place.
(05:10):
It always maybe wonder like do the wolves use this area?
Because everything looked really fresh that was ready to.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Go overgrowth, the green overgrowth, like somebody was strumming that
guitar before, Ellie, But I get it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
They love the guitar.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Dina comes in and she has figured out the best
route to take toward the position where they know one
of Abby's people is at Nora. They know she's at
the hospital because they hear her on the radio, and
they have to cut through this like weird long building
that the patrols seem to avoid, and Ellie's like, well,
(05:48):
there must be infected in that building, because why else
are they avoiding, like why they would patrol that area.
If they get through, though, Dina says, they'll come up
right behind the wolf patrol, so this is kind of
like a perfect route. Nora should be on the first floor.
Dina knows this because again the radio, they're just saying
everything they're saying over the open air name.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're doing it. It's very walking dead.
They're very comfortable in that situation.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
At WLF, Dina thinks that she has a theory about
the Seraphytes who the Wolf called the Scars, and thinks
there must be like some sort of anti technology group
no radios, no tech, because why else would the WLF
be saying all this stuff over the open air and
(06:36):
they must be like kind of like the Amish were
in the before times. Ellie is like, great, so let's go.
Speaking of going, let's take a quick break and we'll
be right back after word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Now we're back, We're back.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
They talk about Ellie and Dina talk about the baby.
What's the plans for the baby? What are we going
to do about the baby? What are your plans for
the baby? How are you going to raise the baby?
All this stuff. As they are talking about this and
going along, you know, walking the route that Dina had
planned out, they come across some executed Serahphyts against the
wall with some Sarahphite graffiti and then some wolf graffiti
(07:26):
over it, and it is a it's a brutal scene.
Ellie immediately is like, I'm so sorry I brought you here.
This is crazy. You're pregnant, Like, how are we doing?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
First sensible Ellie moment we've had in a while, Like,
thank goodness, yes, this is correct.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Dina then says, well, I'm going to continue with you,
and here's why, Like, let me tell you about the
first person I killed because I didn't get to tell
you about that earlier, and she talks about a raider
who killed her family in front of her when she
was eight, and she had a gun at eight, but
she wasn't able to be quick enough with her because she.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Was she and she'd also left the house, which was
she left the She blames herself for that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So there's a lot of complex feelings there.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, And Dina thinks that for she knows, in other words,
what it's like to witness something as horrible as what
Ellie witnessed, and so she wants revenge for Ellie and
she wants to help her get it. And whatever Joel did,
she says he didn't deserve to die the way that
he was murdered, which is, you know, true, I think
(08:34):
in a larger sense. And also yeah, yeah, yeah, in
the in the in the granular sense of this world,
clearly not the way things work.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, anyway, exactly, we love we love her world to forgiveness,
and you know, I love Joel so well.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I just think, you know, Dina and Ellie are going
about avenging a thing by doing the thing that't done.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yes, not sensible, not going to solve any problems.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So Dina says, listen. Anything that happens to me, It's
not your fault if I die out here. If I
die and my baby dies out here, like, don't worry
about it. And so they go forward. There's some spotlights
as they come up to this the building that they
need to sneak into, and Dina cuts the fence. She
brought the bowl cutter. Dina thought of everything, where were Ellie.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
B She might be in nowhere, Like, come on, Dina
is a legend.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
She is killing it. She would have. I think Ellie
would have had to turn back like several days ago
for lack of food.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Oh, no question.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So they get inside this building and it's some kind
of factory and Ellie's like sensible Ellie moment, She's like,
let me go scout because I'm immute in hey, finally.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Good good job, good job probably.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So she goes to take a look, and Dina is
hopeful that you know that there'll be a few infected.
They think there'll be some infected in here, right, but
no hordes hopefully, And but like, let's do things quietly,
no shooting, she says to Ellie. And Ellie's like yeah, yeah, yeah,
And Adina's like, hey, hey, I mean zero, like, we're
(10:18):
not gonna shoo shooting, not a single shot please. And
if it's run or shoot, what do we do?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
We run run, run, run run.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And also big moment here because Dina admits that she
loves Ellie even though she's like a crazy, violent killer.
It's very warm.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, we get warm little moment here. I will say
I love both these actors. I think they're really brilliant.
I do think in this episode some of the more
intimate moments we're missing a bit of chemistry for me,
But I think it's also because the nature of their
journey here, being about the two of them choosing to go,
(10:58):
it makes it more of like a revenge hu raw
angry journey.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
This.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I don't know if I buy the.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Romance as much, but I like how casual Dina was
with it. It was very teenage, that kind of like, yeah,
I love you, so I'm not gonna let that happen
to you.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
You know that. That felt very real.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
But yeah, I'm starting, like we talked about this with
the last episode, I'm definitely starting to get pushed out
of the show's logic a little bit by how much
they're going back to the game after making some different
choices from the game, and now we're kind of having
to get back into the game for efficiency's sake, and
I think we are about to talk about one of
them right now. But there's a couple of things that
(11:37):
kind of I knocked up against this episode, because I.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Do think that there is a now, Listen, people who
love the game and were clamoring, have been clamoring through
season one and from now for it to be more
like the game are gonna love this. That's great, and
that's great. I do think that there is for me,
a little bit of a shalonness of emotional depiction here,
and but that's you know, your mileage may vary anyway.
(12:03):
They move through the factory, they see a body torn
in half, so they know that there must be infected
in here. And they start seeing them like their little
eyes glimmering in the darkness, very very creepily, and Ellie's like, fuck,
it's the smart ones shit, because they're making that weird,
almost human kind of sound and they're not immediately rushing it,
(12:27):
and they're like kind of like looking at them and
like hiding away, and and so Ellie's like, listen, here's
how it's gonna work. Did you play the Last of
Us two? Okay, because here here's how it's gonna work.
These ones aren't gonna run at us like the other ones.
They're gonna flank.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So like the messer raptives. Basically, it's very clever.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
So let's flank the flankers. Okay, whoever senses the flank
coming the other one will come up and take that
one from.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The side press triangle to learn more.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Right, The only thing is, as soon as they come
up with this plan, they realize there's a lot of them.
It's not just like one or two. There's a lot
of them, and so we have to come up with
a new plan. Ellie sees like a cage, a kind
of cage that houses electrical equipment, and she's like, okay,
(13:20):
do you know lock yourself in that cage. I will
draw them away, And all of a sudden, there's you know,
this is happening. They're shooting, Ellie is running, Ellie is
getting bit a lot. She's trapped now under this under
this crush of the smart ones, and it seems like
it's a wrap. But then gunshots ring out and they
(13:44):
are saved by Jesse, who arrives just at the right
moment to preserve the plot. Armory yes, and felt and
I see this is one of those things where, yeah,
we had a sty for me. I felt like we'd
established a kind of reality last season where you really
felt like, oh my god, they could die at anymore.
(14:06):
Anyone could die, anyone could die. It feels very dangerous
and less of course, you know you're suspending your disbelief
right because you understand that they're like who the main
characters are. At the same time, this felt, this is
this is a very fortunate disf Makina moment for Jesse
to arrive at the right place at the right time exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And I do think this is a bit of the
issue that I'm coming from episode four, episode five now,
which is we made some big swings away from the
source material, which I think has worked throughout this series,
so I am pro But if you have it in
the game, it's you know, Tommy and Jesse they leave,
(14:48):
and then Allie and Dina follow them up, So there's
a reason to think that you might see either and
or of them when you.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Get to Seattle.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Here.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah, I do believe that Jesse would have followed them
specifically for Dina, and I do believe Tommy would go
because he doesn't want Ellie to be in that same role.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I love that, but this, yeh, a little bit too neat,
little bit too clean.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Was definitely feeling a little bit walking dead here, like
a little bit more of that you know, you get, yeah,
you kind of roll your eyes when somebody shows up,
And that I think is the moment here where for
me the show shifts gears or like a little bit
of quality for me, because there is rarely a choice.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That they make in this show that I question, and.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It's usually much more of a situation of oh wow,
I didn't expect him to go that route, or oh yeah,
that really works for me, or that adds this layer,
and now I feel like they're kind of struggling to
balance the two. And from this moment out, I definitely
was kind of outside of the emotional kind of world
(15:54):
they wanted me to be in, I think, and you
know what, I love to see Jesse. It's like, I
love Jesse, so I'm happy that he's here. I'm excited
to see this kind of journey continue. But there was
a true moment when when the infected appealing Yeah, the
the wiring away from Dina and Ellie is just being
absolutely yammed on.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I was like, oh my god, are they gonna kill
one of them? And I don't love it.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I don't want them to kill a gay. I hate
to kill a gay. We know, it's like we always
burying our gaze, but that's that danger in fear that
the show can make you feel. And then when it
was just Jesse who showed up rather than say, like
WLF and then you have to escape from them too,
that was a little bit. It was a little bit
neat for me, and I think it's a rainy They
start trying to wrap stuff up a little quickly as
(16:41):
we head into these final two episodes after this.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yes, so they flee this building now without time to
care about like the spotlights and stuff, and the wolves
are shooting at them. And again here's like the wolves
are missing from what I would have It's like an
easy shot for them.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
They are doing Stormtrooper level misses at this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Point, raying all over the place.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And I will say there was also a moment here
when they run through the spotlight where Jesse and Ellie
and Dina are kind of running through and the spotlight
just happens to fall on one of the kind of
fences covered with plants, and it's so clear that the
plants are plastic, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Oh, I was like, no, not like this so expensive show.
I could see that it's.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Fake, which obviously, like, we know the show is fake,
but this was impacting me personally. Yeah, that was an
interesting and interesting moment that didn't necessarily assuage my my worries.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I will listen. I think the action is very well done,
but it is a different mode of show. There is
a different it was previously. So they they're running from
these gunshots and they end up hiding in the park
and the park is extremely overgrown after you know, decades
of the fall of civilization. The wolves, it's clear, will
(18:01):
not come in here, because they're saying, okay, just post
up a guard and if they come out, we'll get them.
But we don't go in there. And Jesse tells them
that I followed you by using the map which you
left at the theater.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
By the way, yes, I came with Tommy. We came
without counsel. Okay, so that's a big deal. Ellie is
trying to act like a fucking badass until Jesse is like,
didn't I just save your life? Like you were like,
how is it going? How is it going? You were
getting absolutely dunke dawn out there, and Dino was was
(18:39):
like I love that, waiting to get like what opened up.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Infected lunchables in a nice little packet.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And Jesse says, listen, let's just get the fuck out
of here, link up with Tommy and go fucking home. Correct,
what's going on?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Correct? Listen to this man?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
But then we start hearing the whistles and we see
seraphits moving through the trees with the torches.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Now you're like one foot away from it.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I don't I don't want to. I don't want to listen.
People may love this, and that's fine. This if you
loved the game, if you wanted the game on screen,
you're getting it this season.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Yeah, me.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
It is a little bit like, yeah, they're fifty feet
into the park, and fifty feet into the park is
apparently like completely controlled by the services, so you can't
the Wolves have no ability with all their hardware to
clear out the park.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I was gonna say, couldn't you just like shooting now
with the sniper rifle, but obviously not if you're as
missing as many shots as they missed. Jesse and Dry
some artillery in there and just like clear them out anyway.
So the surfights are in there, they've got to capture
a wolf in there, and we watch them, you know,
slice this guy's belly open, this ritual murder that is
(20:01):
very disgusting. And Ellie is very shocked by this, which
I thought was interesting because I feel like usually she's
she's a little hard and she's seen some gross stuff,
but this is this is pretty scary, and it's happening
right there, right next to her, and I guess for
the first time, this is really on her.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
This is her quest.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Jack was looking pretty good Jack's I will say I did.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
One thing I did love about this episode is I
do feel we get a lot of Dina and Ellie
moments of them being like, oh fuck, I should have
just stayed in Jackson, Like yeah, Dina, like why are
we not still there? Like eating our delicious food and
eating to prom or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Dina flat out is like what the fuck is happening
in Seattle? Like like what is wrong with these people?
So it's very gross and all of a sudden arrow
whistles through the darkness and it hits Dina right in
the leg.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And what do we do?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You know, I'd say Dina's a legend though, because she
does not like scream and let out the place. She
is like tough as nails. She's like tough, Can I
just say something wasted arrow?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Zip?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I discuise as well, you're just shooting those randomly and
like not going to pick them up.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I guess I thought about this. I think they must
be in the trees or something, because how could they
possibly have seen her? Anyway, Ellie is like, get Dina
out of here, I'll lead them away. So Jesse picks
up Dina and carries her away from there, and Ellie
goes running, you know, with the scars chasing her. She
hides inside of a tree to evade the seraphytes, and
(21:40):
when she pokes her head out, she sees like a path.
You know, this is formerly the municipal park, right, and
there's a path sign there and it says hospital this way. Wonderful,
So she sneaks over.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Oh, I feel like I'm also like, when was the
last time you're in a hospital, babe?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
How did that go?
Speaker 1 (21:56):
For?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You like, I.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Feel like I feel like just.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Like a little maybe not maybe not, but you know what,
maybe yes. And I guess you gotta do what you
got to do when the sarifies after you.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
More game moments here. As Ellie sneaks over, it's heavily
guarded by w l F. She hides in the tall grass,
which is you know in the video game world that
you cannot be seen if you are in grass taller
than two feet. A dog is barking at her though
another video game moment, but she manages to escape the
(22:26):
wolf with the dog thinks that it must have been
some rat or some sort of critter or something. In
the hospital, Nora is tending to the wounded and sick,
and Ellie manages to locate her, and she's like, hey, bitch,
you remember me?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Also again, can we tell? I just want to say, like,
I'm not gonna lie. It's feeling a little bit easy
to me, Like it's definitely feeling like the universe just
keeps handing up. The wolf's on a plat, you know,
like the hospital is huge, and she manages to just
find Nora, but you know what she finds, Uh, we
get that and I do feel like in this moment,
(23:02):
you kind of you could read it as Ellie being
like so suddenly flung back into her trauma in that
moment that she immediately clicks back onto the revenge mission
though I feel like her and Dina with Jesse being there,
I feel like, emotionally I wouldn't expect this from her,
but we kind of click right back into that game
mode and it's like boom.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I will say, here's here's the I've seen a criticism
I should say that before this, like what unfolds here
is like beat for beat, the video so beat the
video game. Everything about Ellie killing Nor. I've seen some
criticism like people who are like game game game centric,
people who have hated the Gail character because they thought
(23:45):
it was like, how dumb do you think we are?
That we need the interior life of characters explained to us.
We know Ellie wants revenge because we played the game
and they hated this. I personally loved it. I think
you loved it as well.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I think I love Gail. I think it makes so
much more.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I think you need that balance of like here's the
alternate version of life through what it right and so
that to me, it was less about explaining like what
characters are doing are feeling internally and more about, hey,
here's another way of living. So that said, I am
(24:21):
with you in that I kind of need Ellie to
be more filled with rage all throughout this mission, for
this to like kind of going back and forth between
like now I love Dina and and the warmth of
that relationship and the vulnerability of that relationship and the
recognition of the danger she put Dina. Yes, yes, get yeah.
(24:45):
I almost feel like it to go this route. It
would have made more sense to me if Ellie was
just like a bloodthirsty like.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Drum do you not at risk multiple times throughout this
thoughtlessly senselessly like I need revenge anyway?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
That would have But again, your mileage may vary. I
just feel like it feels inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Anyways it does.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
It feel like it feels like a little bit of
a shortcut when we do throw back into this this moment,
and also as well, I just need to for face
this the same way Jason did about this being all game.
I am like a Tatti Gabrielle, like Superstan.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
If you haven't just watched her.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
In the latest season of You, you bet if you
haven't just watched her in all of Chilling a Benches
of Sabrina, where she is incredible. So I think as well,
partially my feelings around nor that Nora's death hair and
the way it is is kind of brought to life
is also probably because I love this actress who plays Nora,
and I think she's incredibly talented.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So this is the beat for beat scene Ellie chases
Nora through the hospital. Security catches them, you know, sees
them running by. It takes a couple of shots at
Ellie as normals like intruder, intruder, intruder. They end up
falling down into those sub levels where the Cordy Steps
were at you know, the spores are active, and Nora's
(26:05):
wolf backup is not going to go down there because
they know that it's very dangerous down there. Cordy Steps
is down there, but Ali doesn't care because she can
breathe a shit, right, and it's all mushrooms and stuff
already down there. Really there's there's people walled up like
alien alien style, like in the wall.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I thought this is a cool I couldn't immediately remember
my law from the game, so I thought this added
if you're a if you're a non video game player,
I like the kind of implication here that maybe the
smart ones are coming from the places where the people
are like still alive, you know, so like they have
so many smart ones because the people that they're breathing
(26:48):
through and breeding off of kind of still have some
brain capacity, which is really creepy.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I thought those moments were really viscerally horrible, really great
horror ship that we haven't gotten a lot of season
in the same way, it's been a lot more about
the human horror, like you know, the Walking Dead kind
of realized early on. But this is, yeah, very interesting
to see it go back there and I thought that
this and you could see Leon was one of the
(27:14):
people that was down there, her son at Park's son,
and I thought that was really horrible to see. And yeah,
that stuff worked the best for me out of this
sequence was kind of seeing how the quarter STPs spread
and remembering that that real horror that's at the center
of the Last of Us.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, So they get down there and Ellie eventually corners Nora,
and again this is beat for beat the scene from
the game corners Nora against like a dead end down
there and Nora is coughing, and she sees that Ellie's
like unbothered by the air down there, like it's like,
(27:51):
oh my god, you're her, You're real. You were the
unit that they.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Were talking about.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And she says, like, don't you understand, like what Joel did.
They were going to save the world. They were going
to stop all of this, and Joel like shot doctors
in the head. Ellie is like flat out like I
don't care.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
She and she.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Knows and she knew, which is something we called and
she says.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
She suspired, like did you know? And she's like I know, yea, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
She knew. I That is a thing that is like
an emotional strand that I really loved from this from
the adaptation from season two, the fact that you could
tell in the performance that Ellie never really bought it
all the way that Joel just like, oh yeah, the
(28:45):
raiders came and then also they decided they were going
to do the experiments anymore. And I got you out
of there, like, yeah, she didn't. She never bought it,
which I liked, And here she basically confirms it. It's like, no,
I knew, I knew what was going on. Nora uses
to give up Abby's information, so Ellie takes like a
pipe and just beats the shit out of Nora trying
(29:09):
to get that information, and we're left feeling like she
didn't give it up.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, we are even that, and that would be a
small change from the game, but we don't really get
to see it. And then they do well, I think
they do very interestingly here. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
pose a question to you, Jason, because what we do
is it it goes to black, cuts to black, and
then it goes to a sequence of Ellie waking up
(29:37):
in her bedroom and Joel being there and then being
on good terms. So do you think that episode six
is going to be a flashback like they did in
the game, where they kind of show that Ellie did
her own investigation into what happened at Salt Lake City
(29:57):
and was aware, or do you think we're just gonna
and that's kind of what we're seeing there is maybe
that's the last.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Time her and Joe were on good terms.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Or do you think we're gonna see it kind of
go to a different route because we know we still
need to find out about Eugene and Gail where do
we end.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
This season with only two episodes left?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Well, first of all, I don't with seven episodes. I
think there's no way they finish the game. I think
that they don't get all the way there. There's no
it's impossible that they get all the way there.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Season two could basically just be like and again put
sore spoiler as on. But I do think like they
could basically have season to end with Abby leaving Seattle
and then have season three basically be Ellie and Dina
on the farm raising the kid, and then.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Kind of like looking doing more of an emotional.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Story about where that route goes and whether or not
she gets that revenge that she wants, because we know
season three has been approved now approved point, I do
think that we get that flashback here where we find
out that Ellie didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Just suspect, she knows for a fact that what Joel
did and that was part of the tension between them
in Jackson. I think that we do get that, and
let's take a quick break and then come back and
discuss this episode and we're about okay, let's talk about here.
(31:40):
I think this is one of those things where you know, again,
like I think this is a very well made show,
and I like it. I do think that for me,
it's this there are right now on YouTube. Many like
you can watch The Last of Us two as a
movie with all the creeping around and player initiated stuff
(32:05):
cut out, so it's just the cutscenes and you can
watch that. And for me, if I wanted to watch that,
I would just watch that. I feel, at least these
last two episodes, it's so close to the territory that
the game expertly laid out for us that I find
(32:26):
myself being like, what else, Like where's the other stuff?
I mean, we talked about like the fact that Dina
just kind of all of a sudden, it's like not
curious about Ellie's immunity, just after spending the entire ride
out to Seattle asking her every nook and like, you know,
(32:46):
like poking into every nook and cranny of her life
before she met her. And so you know, like, if
you love the game, you probably love this.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
The immediate way that she just lies to Jesse too,
and she just like, I'm like, come on, I feel
like that's.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
More complexity between the three of them.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I agree. I I the game, you're probably loving it,
and I love this, I just find myself wishing that
there was a little more depth. And I feel like,
you know, in adapting for the screen, you're given that
opportunity to do more stuff that isn't just driven by
(33:27):
the need to put the player in the driver's seat
all the time. And it feels like we left a
little bit of that emotional landscape that we saw in
season one and the different characters that came in in
these wonderful high point moments that like didn't didn't have
anything to do with a mission of revenge or being
(33:47):
so Elier Joel centric, and I guess I'm just like
missing that a little bit. And part of it is
also that The Last of Us won came out. You know,
The Last Us two is a pretty recent game, what
is it three to four years now?
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Five?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
It came out in twenty at the beginning of twenty twenty,
I think.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
And so and the Last of Us too is at
this point like a ten eleven year old game, and
so it felt newer and fresher to look at that
territory in that way, whereas this feels a little bit like, God,
I just did this, I kind of just did this.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Also I think you touched on something really smart there too,
because in that you know, there has also been a
lot of zombie stories and a lot of zombie storytelling.
There has also been lots of stories about a cranky
man actually sometimes played by Pedro Pascal as well.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I'm a sweet baby going on an adventure.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
So I do think this is The last two episodes
were the first points where I was starting to feel
a little bit like we've seen this before. We've been
there before, not just as people who've played the game,
but also as people who watch zombie shows, who deal
with horror media. And I do think that there is
something inherently interesting about Ellie and about her journey here.
(35:08):
I don't know if I feel it as much as
I felt it when I first played the game. And also,
like you say, times have moved on. It's twenty twenty five.
Things are different to us now. The things that horrify
us are different, the things that we experience a different.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
But yeah, I'm interested to see what the.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Last two episodes have to hold because it would be
really interesting if they could kind of pull out one
of those big emotional moments like the franken Bill episode
or kind of one of those quiet unexpected I was
really expecting the theater to be this huge thing for
me because for myself in real life, movie theaters have
always been that. For me, they've always been that kind
(35:44):
of space. Theaters have always been that kind of magical
liminal space, and in the game that worked really well
as a haven. I haven't had that same feeling yet,
but I would love to see, you know, with the
next two episodes kind of where we go, where we land,
and also how far we're going to get into it,
because I do feel like it feels like episode six.
(36:04):
I think everyone has kind of talked about that being
a bottle episode, so it feels unlikely that we're necessarily
gonna be able to deal with that and getting abby
in a way that feels kind of emotionally interesting. Also,
I will just say, WLF, you are flopping, Like the
amount of missed shots that you guys are getting this
(36:28):
is another thing, is like, is it this terrifying military
militia that we're supposed to be horrified when we see,
you know, one hundred people walking behind those tanks in
episode three or is it like a hot mess of
teenagers who when somebody's shouting intruder. None of them can
like get up fast enough to shoot a bullet. The
(36:48):
inconsistencies there are not working for me. And also we
kind of touched on this last episode. But I also think,
like this is not an issue with Isabella McCoy or
Tati Gabrielle or Bella Ramsey. I think the issue here
is that maybe the creative team behind the show is
better equipped to make Joel a really interesting, nuanced, in
(37:11):
depth kind of character we want to follow, and maybe
doesn't necessarily have the same ability to do that when
your main cast is kind of like three younger teenage girls.
Because I don't I feel like, you know, I was
thinking about, like you said, the duex marketer of Jesse.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I usually can react really well. I've watched Shadow and Boone.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I've watched all these shows where in the last moment
somebody reaches out and they save you, you know, the
Hunger Games moment, the Twilight moment, whatever you want to
call it. But to me, that didn't kind of translate
here in the same euphoric way that it can when
we're talking about YA shows. So I also wonder if
the transition to a different type of lead is part
(37:52):
of why it's not speaking to me as much.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
It could be that that said just lightly push. I
feel like this is a show where in season one
we would have done more work to humanize the scars
or to humanize the like the truth. Even the scene
with you know, with Isaac and Hanrahan, you know, Isaac
(38:16):
talking about his life before. It's affecting and horrendous, but
there was so much more work to like bring in
these human moments.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And everyone was fucked up in season one.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yet the survices feel like video game opponents. Like they
feel like video game enemies. They disappear and they're there
and they're whistling, and that's how you know they're there.
And then like, yeah, and the WLF, for the most part,
feel kind of like video game opponents too, And and
there isn't I like, when Ellie kills the kid in
(38:55):
Oklahoma City, that's a horrible moment because you under stand
that while it was necessary, it was self defense, all
these things, that you were killing a person who was
just a scat. However, they however they found themselves there.
It's it's it was a tragedy. And while they gave
you this little moment with the Seraphytes on the trail
(39:18):
where they set up the conflict between the wolves and
the and the Seraphites. I don't feel them humanized in
the same way that. Yeah, that that that season one
took the you know, the time and the effort to
humanize the various characters who came across the screen, and
(39:39):
it's that, you know, I don't even mind. I don't
even mind if you go beat for beat of plotting
out like a scene like the video game. And but
I want to feel like these aren't just like video
game opponents set up to be killed in dozens and
dozens because that's what the game is for, you know,
(40:02):
Like that, really, I think that's the kind of thing
that I'm missing, you know, take a big swing and
show me what what what it's why these people have
arranged themselves in this cult, why the wolves have arranged
themselves like this? What it is exactly that made Isaac?
(40:26):
I think the Isaac scene is another one where we
see him take his squad. Why did he sees control
of the wolf with with hand Rahan, Like, what was
it about the way that that it was being run
previously that made them feel like we need to take
control Yeah, I just feel like that emotional depth is
(40:49):
kind of missing a little bit for me and and
I'm really feeling the lack of it and it and
to me, it's less about it. May be that that,
you know, the creative team just doesn't have a great
feel for Ellian Dina, but to me, it's like across
the board when I look, we're not getting that emotional depth.
(41:09):
And listen again, your mileage may very people who love
the game are like, this is great, I love this,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, I don't need to know why.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I don't need to know because I know, but I'd
be interested to know what show watchers only feel about this.
And maybe we should have somebody on who's game interesting.
We should definitely do that because also I'm even just thinking.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
About what we learn about the Seraphyite and like where
they were formed and their leader was in the game
is actually a lot more than we have learned so.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Far right now.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
So even in that way, some of that space and
time that we do get from the narrative moments and
the cut scenes of the game, and also the you know,
the little secrets you can find around, like the tapes
and the kind of lockets and the fireflight name tags
and everything, which I think as well, like we did
get a little bit more of in season one. You
(42:04):
make a great point like, actually we're kind of lacking
even though the action of the game and some of
the narrative beats are there, some of the storytelling motifs
that may have gotten expanded on in season one, we're
actually kind of lacking some of that context. I'll be
very interested to see what they do with episode six,
because it could be a great tying together of loose
(42:25):
ends and maybe answering some of these questions, or we
could see it go in a different route. So yeah,
I'm definitely intrigued, and I think it would be great
to have somebody on who has only watched.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, that would be interesting, because again, I don't think
this is a I don't think the show is bad.
I just think that the mark that season one set
is not necessarily being reached by m hmm season two.
In the next few episodes of xtuy Vision, we're diving
into the last batch of our episodes in our end
our recap plus, of course, are Star Wars Jedi Roundtable
(42:59):
on Wednesday and Friday, respectively, and as always used on Saturday.
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai wag.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator.
Warning, today's episode contains spoilers for episode five, season two
of the.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Last of Us, So watch that and then listen to
this or just listen to this.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Hello, my name is Jason, gets up to your own
heo on Wedsday Night and welcome back to x Ray
Vision of the podcast Where We Dive. They your favorite shows, movies,
comics of pop culture coming to you from my podcast
Where We Are You three episodes week every Tuesday, Wednesday,
and Thursday.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Plus in today's episode, guys, can you almost believe it?
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Only three episodes left of this season.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Of the Last of Us and we are at that
third episode to the end episode five, we are going
to be breaking it down.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
What's going on in Seattle?
Speaker 3 (00:50):
How does everywhere everyone get every were so fast? Is
this holding up to the game?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Is it too close to the game? Is it far
away from the game. We're all that and more so
let's talk about it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
But first the Last of Us Episode five. You know,
I think that they're going to stop before they get
to Abby. I think they're going to break this into
It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Right they There's no way they can get to her
right now, I.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Don't think so. Okay, here we go. We'll talk about
that later, Okay. We open up in one of the
WLF buildings where apparently barricades have been put up for
reasons that we're about to discover. Hand Rahan alna Ubach,
the Wonderful a lot of you Bach usually a comedic actor,
(01:35):
but very which is you know, a wonderful thing, is
inspecting these and she is interviewing a wolf named Park,
who is a leader of like this section, it's interesting
because we get the idea through this that the Wolves
(01:56):
are kind of like a federation of various war lords
where it seems like there's like a block leader or
a regional leader who is in control of a certain area,
and while Hanrahan is kind of like a higher up leader,
(02:16):
everybody's kind of like independently running their own little fifes,
it seems. And apparently Park ordered or caused the deaths
of some of her people, and so Hanrahan is asking
about that. It's due to some kind of orders that
(02:36):
Hanrahan had given Park. And this is an issue because
the Wolves and the Seraphyites are apparently getting ready to
go to war if they're not currently at war. We
saw last episode, like that battle that was going on
in the distance, and they're going to need their full strength.
Park her people were ordered to clear the hospital, which
(03:00):
is obviously a necessary building for the WLF, and they
sent a squad down to like one of the sub levels,
including one of Park's best people, Leon, who we will
find out is Park's Sun, And there was cordy steps
down there. There's in the air, but no one was
(03:20):
infected above, So like everybody feels pretty good that it's
the cordy SEPs infection, the spores that are contained in
the sub level but haven't seeped up to the upper
levels yet. And Leon breathed some of this in and
that is apparently why Park had to have her people killed,
because Leon and some other people got infected. It's in
(03:42):
the air, the Park says, and that's why the barricades
have been put up to seal the infection down there,
and some of the Wolf soldiers were trapped down there.
Nothing else has gotten out thus far, no one else
has gotten sick. So we're feeling the w life is
feeling reasonably confident.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Reasonably confident, probably too confident.
Speaker 4 (04:05):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Hanrahan is like, we're not gonna tell anybody about this
We're gonna keep this quiet. We're gonna keep so people
don't panic. We need she's talking about how much they
need the hospital. Obviously that's an important building for them,
and so they're gonna keep using the hospital and not
tell anybody about this little incident. And also, I'm sorry
about your son, she says. It is Seattle day two
(04:27):
for Ellie and Dina. Dina is working up a plan
using her maps and her apparently talent for triangulating paths.
She's been listening to the radio a lot, so she's
getting a lot of information from the wolves themselves. Ellie
goes down to the base. When she gets the lights on,
there's like a natural gas generator there. You get the
(04:49):
feeling like and now this is one of those first
things where it's like in the game, this makes sense
in the show. I'm like, what the wolves see this? Like,
won't this straw tend anyway? They get the rights on.
Ellie explores the performance hall where there's amps and guitars.
It seems like like a performance was about to take place.
(05:10):
It always maybe wonder like do the wolves use this area?
Because everything looked really fresh that was ready to.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Go overgrowth, the green overgrowth, like somebody was strumming that
guitar before, Ellie, But I get it.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
They love the guitar.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Dina comes in and she has figured out the best
route to take toward the position where they know one
of Abby's people is at Nora. They know she's at
the hospital because they hear her on the radio, and
they have to cut through this like weird long building
that the patrols seem to avoid, and Ellie's like, well,
(05:48):
there must be infected in that building, because why else
are they avoiding, like why they would patrol that area.
If they get through, though, Dina says, they'll come up
right behind the wolf patrol, so this is kind of
like a perfect route. Nora should be on the first floor.
Dina knows this because again the radio, they're just saying
everything they're saying over the open air name.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're doing it. It's very walking dead.
They're very comfortable in that situation.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
At WLF, Dina thinks that she has a theory about
the Seraphytes who the Wolf called the Scars, and thinks
there must be like some sort of anti technology group
no radios, no tech, because why else would the WLF
be saying all this stuff over the open air and
(06:36):
they must be like kind of like the Amish were
in the before times. Ellie is like, great, so let's go.
Speaking of going, let's take a quick break and we'll
be right back after word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Now we're back, We're back.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
They talk about Ellie and Dina talk about the baby.
What's the plans for the baby? What are we going
to do about the baby? What are your plans for
the baby? How are you going to raise the baby?
All this stuff. As they are talking about this and
going along, you know, walking the route that Dina had
planned out, they come across some executed Serahphyts against the
wall with some Sarahphite graffiti and then some wolf graffiti
(07:26):
over it, and it is a it's a brutal scene.
Ellie immediately is like, I'm so sorry I brought you here.
This is crazy. You're pregnant, Like, how are we doing?
Speaker 3 (07:36):
First sensible Ellie moment we've had in a while, Like,
thank goodness, yes, this is correct.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Dina then says, well, I'm going to continue with you,
and here's why, Like, let me tell you about the
first person I killed because I didn't get to tell
you about that earlier, and she talks about a raider
who killed her family in front of her when she
was eight, and she had a gun at eight, but
she wasn't able to be quick enough with her because she.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
Was she and she'd also left the house, which was
she left the She blames herself for that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
So there's a lot of complex feelings there.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah, And Dina thinks that for she knows, in other words,
what it's like to witness something as horrible as what
Ellie witnessed, and so she wants revenge for Ellie and
she wants to help her get it. And whatever Joel did,
she says he didn't deserve to die the way that
he was murdered, which is, you know, true, I think
(08:34):
in a larger sense. And also yeah, yeah, yeah, in
the in the in the granular sense of this world,
clearly not the way things work.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, anyway, exactly, we love we love her world to forgiveness,
and you know, I love Joel so well.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I just think, you know, Dina and Ellie are going
about avenging a thing by doing the thing that't done.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yes, not sensible, not going to solve any problems.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
So Dina says, listen. Anything that happens to me, It's
not your fault if I die out here. If I
die and my baby dies out here, like, don't worry
about it. And so they go forward. There's some spotlights
as they come up to this the building that they
need to sneak into, and Dina cuts the fence. She
brought the bowl cutter. Dina thought of everything, where were Ellie.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
B She might be in nowhere, Like, come on, Dina
is a legend.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
She is killing it. She would have. I think Ellie
would have had to turn back like several days ago
for lack of food.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Oh, no question.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
So they get inside this building and it's some kind
of factory and Ellie's like sensible Ellie moment, She's like,
let me go scout because I'm immute in hey, finally.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Good good job, good job probably.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
So she goes to take a look, and Dina is
hopeful that you know that there'll be a few infected.
They think there'll be some infected in here, right, but
no hordes hopefully, And but like, let's do things quietly,
no shooting, she says to Ellie. And Ellie's like yeah, yeah, yeah,
And Adina's like, hey, hey, I mean zero, like, we're
(10:18):
not gonna shoo shooting, not a single shot please. And
if it's run or shoot, what do we do?
Speaker 2 (10:26):
We run run, run, run run.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And also big moment here because Dina admits that she
loves Ellie even though she's like a crazy, violent killer.
It's very warm.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yes, we get warm little moment here. I will say
I love both these actors. I think they're really brilliant.
I do think in this episode some of the more
intimate moments we're missing a bit of chemistry for me,
But I think it's also because the nature of their
journey here, being about the two of them choosing to go,
(10:58):
it makes it more of like a revenge hu raw
angry journey.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
This.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
I don't know if I buy the.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Romance as much, but I like how casual Dina was
with it. It was very teenage, that kind of like, yeah,
I love you, so I'm not gonna let that happen
to you.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
You know that. That felt very real.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
But yeah, I'm starting, like we talked about this with
the last episode, I'm definitely starting to get pushed out
of the show's logic a little bit by how much
they're going back to the game after making some different
choices from the game, and now we're kind of having
to get back into the game for efficiency's sake, and
I think we are about to talk about one of
them right now. But there's a couple of things that
(11:37):
kind of I knocked up against this episode, because I.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Do think that there is a now, Listen, people who
love the game and were clamoring, have been clamoring through
season one and from now for it to be more
like the game are gonna love this. That's great, and
that's great. I do think that there is for me,
a little bit of a shalonness of emotional depiction here,
and but that's you know, your mileage may vary anyway.
(12:03):
They move through the factory, they see a body torn
in half, so they know that there must be infected
in here. And they start seeing them like their little
eyes glimmering in the darkness, very very creepily, and Ellie's like, fuck,
it's the smart ones shit, because they're making that weird,
almost human kind of sound and they're not immediately rushing it,
(12:27):
and they're like kind of like looking at them and
like hiding away, and and so Ellie's like, listen, here's
how it's gonna work. Did you play the Last of
Us two? Okay, because here here's how it's gonna work.
These ones aren't gonna run at us like the other ones.
They're gonna flank.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
So like the messer raptives. Basically, it's very clever.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
So let's flank the flankers. Okay, whoever senses the flank
coming the other one will come up and take that
one from.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
The side press triangle to learn more.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Right, The only thing is, as soon as they come
up with this plan, they realize there's a lot of them.
It's not just like one or two. There's a lot
of them, and so we have to come up with
a new plan. Ellie sees like a cage, a kind
of cage that houses electrical equipment, and she's like, okay,
(13:20):
do you know lock yourself in that cage. I will
draw them away, And all of a sudden, there's you know,
this is happening. They're shooting, Ellie is running, Ellie is
getting bit a lot. She's trapped now under this under
this crush of the smart ones, and it seems like
it's a wrap. But then gunshots ring out and they
(13:44):
are saved by Jesse, who arrives just at the right
moment to preserve the plot. Armory yes, and felt and
I see this is one of those things where, yeah,
we had a sty for me. I felt like we'd
established a kind of reality last season where you really
felt like, oh my god, they could die at anymore.
(14:06):
Anyone could die, anyone could die. It feels very dangerous
and less of course, you know you're suspending your disbelief
right because you understand that they're like who the main
characters are. At the same time, this felt, this is
this is a very fortunate disf Makina moment for Jesse
to arrive at the right place at the right time exactly.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And I do think this is a bit of the
issue that I'm coming from episode four, episode five now,
which is we made some big swings away from the
source material, which I think has worked throughout this series,
so I am pro But if you have it in
the game, it's you know, Tommy and Jesse they leave,
(14:48):
and then Allie and Dina follow them up, So there's
a reason to think that you might see either and
or of them when you.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Get to Seattle.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Here.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
Yeah, I do believe that Jesse would have followed them
specifically for Dina, and I do believe Tommy would go
because he doesn't want Ellie to be in that same role.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
I love that, but this, yeh, a little bit too neat,
little bit too clean.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Was definitely feeling a little bit walking dead here, like
a little bit more of that you know, you get, yeah,
you kind of roll your eyes when somebody shows up,
And that I think is the moment here where for
me the show shifts gears or like a little bit
of quality for me, because there is rarely a choice.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
That they make in this show that I question, and.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
It's usually much more of a situation of oh wow,
I didn't expect him to go that route, or oh yeah,
that really works for me, or that adds this layer,
and now I feel like they're kind of struggling to
balance the two. And from this moment out, I definitely
was kind of outside of the emotional kind of world
(15:54):
they wanted me to be in, I think, and you
know what, I love to see Jesse. It's like, I
love Jesse, so I'm happy that he's here. I'm excited
to see this kind of journey continue. But there was
a true moment when when the infected appealing Yeah, the
the wiring away from Dina and Ellie is just being
absolutely yammed on.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
I was like, oh my god, are they gonna kill
one of them? And I don't love it.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
I don't want them to kill a gay. I hate
to kill a gay. We know, it's like we always
burying our gaze, but that's that danger in fear that
the show can make you feel. And then when it
was just Jesse who showed up rather than say, like
WLF and then you have to escape from them too,
that was a little bit. It was a little bit
neat for me, and I think it's a rainy They
start trying to wrap stuff up a little quickly as
(16:41):
we head into these final two episodes after this.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yes, so they flee this building now without time to
care about like the spotlights and stuff, and the wolves
are shooting at them. And again here's like the wolves
are missing from what I would have It's like an
easy shot for them.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
They are doing Stormtrooper level misses at this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Point, raying all over the place.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And I will say there was also a moment here
when they run through the spotlight where Jesse and Ellie
and Dina are kind of running through and the spotlight
just happens to fall on one of the kind of
fences covered with plants, and it's so clear that the
plants are plastic, and I was like.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
Oh, I was like, no, not like this so expensive show.
I could see that it's.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Fake, which obviously, like, we know the show is fake,
but this was impacting me personally. Yeah, that was an
interesting and interesting moment that didn't necessarily assuage my my worries.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I will listen. I think the action is very well done,
but it is a different mode of show. There is
a different it was previously. So they they're running from
these gunshots and they end up hiding in the park
and the park is extremely overgrown after you know, decades
of the fall of civilization. The wolves, it's clear, will
(18:01):
not come in here, because they're saying, okay, just post
up a guard and if they come out, we'll get them.
But we don't go in there. And Jesse tells them
that I followed you by using the map which you
left at the theater.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
By the way.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
By the way, yes, I came with Tommy. We came
without counsel. Okay, so that's a big deal. Ellie is
trying to act like a fucking badass until Jesse is like,
didn't I just save your life? Like you were like,
how is it going? How is it going? You were
getting absolutely dunke dawn out there, and Dino was was
(18:39):
like I love that, waiting to get like what opened up.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
Infected lunchables in a nice little packet.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
And Jesse says, listen, let's just get the fuck out
of here, link up with Tommy and go fucking home. Correct,
what's going on?
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Correct? Listen to this man?
Speaker 1 (19:01):
But then we start hearing the whistles and we see
seraphits moving through the trees with the torches.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Now you're like one foot away from it.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I don't I don't want to. I don't want to listen.
People may love this, and that's fine. This if you
loved the game, if you wanted the game on screen,
you're getting it this season.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
Yeah, me.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
It is a little bit like, yeah, they're fifty feet
into the park, and fifty feet into the park is
apparently like completely controlled by the services, so you can't
the Wolves have no ability with all their hardware to
clear out the park.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
I was gonna say, couldn't you just like shooting now
with the sniper rifle, but obviously not if you're as
missing as many shots as they missed. Jesse and Dry
some artillery in there and just like clear them out anyway.
So the surfights are in there, they've got to capture
a wolf in there, and we watch them, you know,
slice this guy's belly open, this ritual murder that is
(20:01):
very disgusting. And Ellie is very shocked by this, which
I thought was interesting because I feel like usually she's
she's a little hard and she's seen some gross stuff,
but this is this is pretty scary, and it's happening
right there, right next to her, and I guess for
the first time, this is really on her.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
This is her quest.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Jack was looking pretty good Jack's I will say I did.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
One thing I did love about this episode is I
do feel we get a lot of Dina and Ellie
moments of them being like, oh fuck, I should have
just stayed in Jackson, Like yeah, Dina, like why are
we not still there? Like eating our delicious food and
eating to prom or whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Dina flat out is like what the fuck is happening
in Seattle? Like like what is wrong with these people?
So it's very gross and all of a sudden arrow
whistles through the darkness and it hits Dina right in
the leg.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And what do we do?
Speaker 3 (20:59):
You know, I'd say Dina's a legend though, because she
does not like scream and let out the place. She
is like tough as nails. She's like tough, Can I
just say something wasted arrow?
Speaker 4 (21:11):
Zip?
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I discuise as well, you're just shooting those randomly and
like not going to pick them up.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I guess I thought about this. I think they must
be in the trees or something, because how could they
possibly have seen her? Anyway, Ellie is like, get Dina
out of here, I'll lead them away. So Jesse picks
up Dina and carries her away from there, and Ellie
goes running, you know, with the scars chasing her. She
hides inside of a tree to evade the seraphytes, and
(21:40):
when she pokes her head out, she sees like a path.
You know, this is formerly the municipal park, right, and
there's a path sign there and it says hospital this way. Wonderful,
So she sneaks over.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
Oh, I feel like I'm also like, when was the
last time you're in a hospital, babe?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
How did that go?
Speaker 1 (21:56):
For?
Speaker 2 (21:56):
You like, I.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Feel like I feel like just.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Like a little maybe not maybe not, but you know what,
maybe yes. And I guess you gotta do what you
got to do when the sarifies after you.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
More game moments here. As Ellie sneaks over, it's heavily
guarded by w l F. She hides in the tall grass,
which is you know in the video game world that
you cannot be seen if you are in grass taller
than two feet. A dog is barking at her though
another video game moment, but she manages to escape the
(22:26):
wolf with the dog thinks that it must have been
some rat or some sort of critter or something. In
the hospital, Nora is tending to the wounded and sick,
and Ellie manages to locate her, and she's like, hey, bitch,
you remember me?
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Also again, can we tell? I just want to say, like,
I'm not gonna lie. It's feeling a little bit easy
to me, Like it's definitely feeling like the universe just
keeps handing up. The wolf's on a plat, you know,
like the hospital is huge, and she manages to just
find Nora, but you know what she finds, Uh, we
get that and I do feel like in this moment,
(23:02):
you kind of you could read it as Ellie being
like so suddenly flung back into her trauma in that
moment that she immediately clicks back onto the revenge mission
though I feel like her and Dina with Jesse being there,
I feel like, emotionally I wouldn't expect this from her,
but we kind of click right back into that game
mode and it's like boom.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
I will say, here's here's the I've seen a criticism
I should say that before this, like what unfolds here
is like beat for beat, the video so beat the
video game. Everything about Ellie killing Nor. I've seen some
criticism like people who are like game game game centric,
people who have hated the Gail character because they thought
(23:45):
it was like, how dumb do you think we are?
That we need the interior life of characters explained to us.
We know Ellie wants revenge because we played the game
and they hated this. I personally loved it. I think
you loved it as well.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I think I love Gail. I think it makes so
much more.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I think you need that balance of like here's the
alternate version of life through what it right and so
that to me, it was less about explaining like what
characters are doing are feeling internally and more about, hey,
here's another way of living. So that said, I am
(24:21):
with you in that I kind of need Ellie to
be more filled with rage all throughout this mission, for
this to like kind of going back and forth between
like now I love Dina and and the warmth of
that relationship and the vulnerability of that relationship and the
recognition of the danger she put Dina. Yes, yes, get yeah.
(24:45):
I almost feel like it to go this route. It
would have made more sense to me if Ellie was
just like a bloodthirsty like.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Drum do you not at risk multiple times throughout this
thoughtlessly senselessly like I need revenge anyway?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
That would have But again, your mileage may vary. I
just feel like it feels inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Anyways it does.
Speaker 3 (25:08):
It feel like it feels like a little bit of
a shortcut when we do throw back into this this moment,
and also as well, I just need to for face
this the same way Jason did about this being all game.
I am like a Tatti Gabrielle, like Superstan.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
If you haven't just watched her.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
In the latest season of You, you bet if you
haven't just watched her in all of Chilling a Benches
of Sabrina, where she is incredible. So I think as well,
partially my feelings around nor that Nora's death hair and
the way it is is kind of brought to life
is also probably because I love this actress who plays Nora,
and I think she's incredibly talented.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
So this is the beat for beat scene Ellie chases
Nora through the hospital. Security catches them, you know, sees
them running by. It takes a couple of shots at
Ellie as normals like intruder, intruder, intruder. They end up
falling down into those sub levels where the Cordy Steps
were at you know, the spores are active, and Nora's
(26:05):
wolf backup is not going to go down there because
they know that it's very dangerous down there. Cordy Steps
is down there, but Ali doesn't care because she can
breathe a shit, right, and it's all mushrooms and stuff
already down there. Really there's there's people walled up like
alien alien style, like in the wall.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I thought this is a cool I couldn't immediately remember
my law from the game, so I thought this added
if you're a if you're a non video game player,
I like the kind of implication here that maybe the
smart ones are coming from the places where the people
are like still alive, you know, so like they have
so many smart ones because the people that they're breathing
(26:48):
through and breeding off of kind of still have some
brain capacity, which is really creepy.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
I thought those moments were really viscerally horrible, really great
horror ship that we haven't gotten a lot of season
in the same way, it's been a lot more about
the human horror, like you know, the Walking Dead kind
of realized early on. But this is, yeah, very interesting
to see it go back there and I thought that
this and you could see Leon was one of the
(27:14):
people that was down there, her son at Park's son,
and I thought that was really horrible to see. And yeah,
that stuff worked the best for me out of this
sequence was kind of seeing how the quarter STPs spread
and remembering that that real horror that's at the center
of the Last of Us.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, So they get down there and Ellie eventually corners Nora,
and again this is beat for beat the scene from
the game corners Nora against like a dead end down
there and Nora is coughing, and she sees that Ellie's
like unbothered by the air down there, like it's like,
(27:51):
oh my god, you're her, You're real. You were the
unit that they.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Were talking about.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
And she says, like, don't you understand, like what Joel did.
They were going to save the world. They were going
to stop all of this, and Joel like shot doctors
in the head. Ellie is like flat out like I
don't care.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
She and she.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Knows and she knew, which is something we called and
she says.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
She suspired, like did you know? And she's like I know, yea, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
She knew. I That is a thing that is like
an emotional strand that I really loved from this from
the adaptation from season two, the fact that you could
tell in the performance that Ellie never really bought it
all the way that Joel just like, oh yeah, the
(28:45):
raiders came and then also they decided they were going
to do the experiments anymore. And I got you out
of there, like, yeah, she didn't. She never bought it,
which I liked, And here she basically confirms it. It's like, no,
I knew, I knew what was going on. Nora uses
to give up Abby's information, so Ellie takes like a
pipe and just beats the shit out of Nora trying
(29:09):
to get that information, and we're left feeling like she
didn't give it up.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Yeah, we are even that, and that would be a
small change from the game, but we don't really get
to see it. And then they do well, I think
they do very interestingly here. So I'm gonna I'm gonna
pose a question to you, Jason, because what we do
is it it goes to black, cuts to black, and
then it goes to a sequence of Ellie waking up
(29:37):
in her bedroom and Joel being there and then being
on good terms. So do you think that episode six
is going to be a flashback like they did in
the game, where they kind of show that Ellie did
her own investigation into what happened at Salt Lake City
(29:57):
and was aware, or do you think we're just gonna
and that's kind of what we're seeing there is maybe
that's the last.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Time her and Joe were on good terms.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
Or do you think we're gonna see it kind of
go to a different route because we know we still
need to find out about Eugene and Gail where do
we end.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
This season with only two episodes left?
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Well, first of all, I don't with seven episodes. I
think there's no way they finish the game. I think
that they don't get all the way there. There's no
it's impossible that they get all the way there.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Season two could basically just be like and again put
sore spoiler as on. But I do think like they
could basically have season to end with Abby leaving Seattle
and then have season three basically be Ellie and Dina
on the farm raising the kid, and then.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
Kind of like looking doing more of an emotional.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
Story about where that route goes and whether or not
she gets that revenge that she wants, because we know
season three has been approved now approved point, I do
think that we get that flashback here where we find
out that Ellie didn't.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Just suspect, she knows for a fact that what Joel
did and that was part of the tension between them
in Jackson. I think that we do get that, and
let's take a quick break and then come back and
discuss this episode and we're about okay, let's talk about here.
(31:40):
I think this is one of those things where you know, again,
like I think this is a very well made show,
and I like it. I do think that for me,
it's this there are right now on YouTube. Many like
you can watch The Last of Us two as a
movie with all the creeping around and player initiated stuff
(32:05):
cut out, so it's just the cutscenes and you can
watch that. And for me, if I wanted to watch that,
I would just watch that. I feel, at least these
last two episodes, it's so close to the territory that
the game expertly laid out for us that I find
(32:26):
myself being like, what else, Like where's the other stuff?
I mean, we talked about like the fact that Dina
just kind of all of a sudden, it's like not
curious about Ellie's immunity, just after spending the entire ride
out to Seattle asking her every nook and like, you know,
(32:46):
like poking into every nook and cranny of her life
before she met her. And so you know, like, if
you love the game, you probably love this.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
The immediate way that she just lies to Jesse too,
and she just like, I'm like, come on, I feel
like that's.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
More complexity between the three of them.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I agree. I I the game, you're probably loving it,
and I love this, I just find myself wishing that
there was a little more depth. And I feel like,
you know, in adapting for the screen, you're given that
opportunity to do more stuff that isn't just driven by
(33:27):
the need to put the player in the driver's seat
all the time. And it feels like we left a
little bit of that emotional landscape that we saw in
season one and the different characters that came in in
these wonderful high point moments that like didn't didn't have
anything to do with a mission of revenge or being
(33:47):
so Elier Joel centric, and I guess I'm just like
missing that a little bit. And part of it is
also that The Last of Us won came out. You know,
The Last Us two is a pretty recent game, what
is it three to four years now?
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Five?
Speaker 3 (34:04):
It came out in twenty at the beginning of twenty twenty,
I think.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
And so and the Last of Us too is at
this point like a ten eleven year old game, and
so it felt newer and fresher to look at that
territory in that way, whereas this feels a little bit like, God,
I just did this, I kind of just did this.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Also I think you touched on something really smart there too,
because in that you know, there has also been a
lot of zombie stories and a lot of zombie storytelling.
There has also been lots of stories about a cranky
man actually sometimes played by Pedro Pascal as well.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
I'm a sweet baby going on an adventure.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
So I do think this is The last two episodes
were the first points where I was starting to feel
a little bit like we've seen this before. We've been
there before, not just as people who've played the game,
but also as people who watch zombie shows, who deal
with horror media. And I do think that there is
something inherently interesting about Ellie and about her journey here.
(35:08):
I don't know if I feel it as much as
I felt it when I first played the game. And also,
like you say, times have moved on. It's twenty twenty five.
Things are different to us now. The things that horrify
us are different, the things that we experience a different.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
But yeah, I'm interested to see what the.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Last two episodes have to hold because it would be
really interesting if they could kind of pull out one
of those big emotional moments like the franken Bill episode
or kind of one of those quiet unexpected I was
really expecting the theater to be this huge thing for
me because for myself in real life, movie theaters have
always been that. For me, they've always been that kind
(35:44):
of space. Theaters have always been that kind of magical
liminal space, and in the game that worked really well
as a haven. I haven't had that same feeling yet,
but I would love to see, you know, with the
next two episodes kind of where we go, where we land,
and also how far we're going to get into it,
because I do feel like it feels like episode six.
(36:04):
I think everyone has kind of talked about that being
a bottle episode, so it feels unlikely that we're necessarily
gonna be able to deal with that and getting abby
in a way that feels kind of emotionally interesting. Also,
I will just say, WLF, you are flopping, Like the
amount of missed shots that you guys are getting this
(36:28):
is another thing, is like, is it this terrifying military
militia that we're supposed to be horrified when we see,
you know, one hundred people walking behind those tanks in
episode three or is it like a hot mess of
teenagers who when somebody's shouting intruder. None of them can
like get up fast enough to shoot a bullet. The
(36:48):
inconsistencies there are not working for me. And also we
kind of touched on this last episode. But I also think,
like this is not an issue with Isabella McCoy or
Tati Gabrielle or Bella Ramsey. I think the issue here
is that maybe the creative team behind the show is
better equipped to make Joel a really interesting, nuanced, in
(37:11):
depth kind of character we want to follow, and maybe
doesn't necessarily have the same ability to do that when
your main cast is kind of like three younger teenage girls.
Because I don't I feel like, you know, I was
thinking about, like you said, the duex marketer of Jesse.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
I usually can react really well. I've watched Shadow and Boone.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I've watched all these shows where in the last moment
somebody reaches out and they save you, you know, the
Hunger Games moment, the Twilight moment, whatever you want to
call it. But to me, that didn't kind of translate
here in the same euphoric way that it can when
we're talking about YA shows. So I also wonder if
the transition to a different type of lead is part
(37:52):
of why it's not speaking to me as much.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
It could be that that said just lightly push. I
feel like this is a show where in season one
we would have done more work to humanize the scars
or to humanize the like the truth. Even the scene
with you know, with Isaac and Hanrahan, you know, Isaac
(38:16):
talking about his life before. It's affecting and horrendous, but
there was so much more work to like bring in
these human moments.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
And everyone was fucked up in season one.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Yet the survices feel like video game opponents. Like they
feel like video game enemies. They disappear and they're there
and they're whistling, and that's how you know they're there.
And then like, yeah, and the WLF, for the most part,
feel kind of like video game opponents too, And and
there isn't I like, when Ellie kills the kid in
(38:55):
Oklahoma City, that's a horrible moment because you under stand
that while it was necessary, it was self defense, all
these things, that you were killing a person who was
just a scat. However, they however they found themselves there.
It's it's it was a tragedy. And while they gave
you this little moment with the Seraphytes on the trail
(39:18):
where they set up the conflict between the wolves and
the and the Seraphites. I don't feel them humanized in
the same way that. Yeah, that that that season one
took the you know, the time and the effort to
humanize the various characters who came across the screen, and
(39:39):
it's that, you know, I don't even mind. I don't
even mind if you go beat for beat of plotting
out like a scene like the video game. And but
I want to feel like these aren't just like video
game opponents set up to be killed in dozens and
dozens because that's what the game is for, you know,
(40:02):
Like that, really, I think that's the kind of thing
that I'm missing, you know, take a big swing and
show me what what what it's why these people have
arranged themselves in this cult, why the wolves have arranged
themselves like this? What it is exactly that made Isaac?
(40:26):
I think the Isaac scene is another one where we
see him take his squad. Why did he sees control
of the wolf with with hand Rahan, Like, what was
it about the way that that it was being run
previously that made them feel like we need to take
control Yeah, I just feel like that emotional depth is
(40:49):
kind of missing a little bit for me and and
I'm really feeling the lack of it and it and
to me, it's less about it. May be that that,
you know, the creative team just doesn't have a great
feel for Ellian Dina, but to me, it's like across
the board when I look, we're not getting that emotional depth.
(41:09):
And listen again, your mileage may very people who love
the game are like, this is great, I love this,
I love that.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, I don't need to know why.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I don't need to know because I know, but I'd
be interested to know what show watchers only feel about this.
And maybe we should have somebody on who's game interesting.
We should definitely do that because also I'm even just thinking.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
About what we learn about the Seraphyite and like where
they were formed and their leader was in the game
is actually a lot more than we have learned so.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Far right now.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
So even in that way, some of that space and
time that we do get from the narrative moments and
the cut scenes of the game, and also the you know,
the little secrets you can find around, like the tapes
and the kind of lockets and the fireflight name tags
and everything, which I think as well, like we did
get a little bit more of in season one. You
(42:04):
make a great point like, actually we're kind of lacking
even though the action of the game and some of
the narrative beats are there, some of the storytelling motifs
that may have gotten expanded on in season one, we're
actually kind of lacking some of that context. I'll be
very interested to see what they do with episode six,
because it could be a great tying together of loose
(42:25):
ends and maybe answering some of these questions, or we
could see it go in a different route. So yeah,
I'm definitely intrigued, and I think it would be great
to have somebody on who has only watched.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, that would be interesting, because again, I don't think
this is a I don't think the show is bad.
I just think that the mark that season one set
is not necessarily being reached by m hmm season two.
In the next few episodes of xtuy Vision, we're diving
into the last batch of our episodes in our end
our recap plus, of course, are Star Wars Jedi Roundtable
(42:59):
on Wednesday and Friday, respectively, and as always used on Saturday.
That's it for this episode. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
Goodbye.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie
Night and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 3 (43:11):
Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
Our producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Bai wag.
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman and
Heidi our discord moderator.
Hosts And Creators
Jason Concepcion
Rosie Knight
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