February 9, 2022 • 34 mins
In this bonus episode, Jessica continues her conversation with creators and showrunners Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage. They remember how the doors of New York City opened up to the Gossip Girl cast and crew (and the streets of Paris as well), discuss all the great music from the show, and reflect on re-making it for a new generation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
And I'm Stephanie Savage. You're the creators and executive producers
of Welcome Girl. Welcome back listeners, do your one and
only source into all things gossip grow. You know you
love it. X O x O. Here we are again,
(00:29):
Welcome back to x O x O. I'm Jessica's or
and the weight is over. People. Today you're going to
hear the second half of my conversation with Josh Swartz
and Stephanie Savage, the co creators of Gossip Girl. I
am so happy that you all love the first part
of our conversation and it makes me so excited to
share the second part with you all. So last time
we talked about how the show got adapted, the casting process,
(00:50):
and the early reviews and reactions to it. Well, today
we're going to dive into more aspects of the show.
Why we filmed in Paris, use movies for episode titles,
and so much more. It's incredible in film and television
how every little thing you see on screen is a
specific decision. Someone has to make the music, the script,
the locations, but also every hair clip, the cup someone
(01:12):
drinks out of the food they eat, the flower arrangement
in the back of the shot, literally everything, and these
two were the final say on all of those decisions
on Gossip Girl. It's so much work being a showrunner
and senior vision come to life. But they did it
also beautifully. Now once again, let's jump back into this
conversation with Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage. Did you always
(01:48):
know you were going to shoot New York? I know
that's a silly question because New York is also a
character in the show. Not a silly question. Not a
silly question. They wanted us to shoot a Warner Brothers.
They took us on a tour of the of the
Warner Brothers lot, which you do well as two Stars Hollow,
you know where they shot Gilmore Girls, And they were like, great,
this will be Central Park and there were some New
(02:09):
York streets and we were like, that can't make the
show if it's not set in New York. That's crazy.
And then Steph being the brilliant producer, figured out how
to do it. Well, it wasn't that hard. There was
like a big tax incentive in New York at the time,
and I think everyone at Warners was just nervous about
doing a show in New York because they hadn't done it,
(02:30):
so it just seemed very like, well, how are we
going to do that, Like who's going to produce it?
Like who's going to be the prop master? And you're like,
people will work it who live in more in New York,
We'll find them. Um. And then once once we started
putting that crew together, we had an amazing crew. I
will say we had Rock Orginado, who was an incredible
cinematographer who shot the Basque yapp movie. We had on
(02:53):
the pilot Joe Ready as our a D who was
Martin Scorsese's a D. Like he's thanked at the Accademy Awards.
Because people were just in New York and there was
not that much shooting that wasn't Law and Order. So
even though they were like, I don't really get it,
like a show about spoiled kids, like write mean stuff
about them on the internet, But I'll do it. It's creative.
(03:15):
It's interesting. You know, we're shooting on location. We got
a lot of crew from the Sopranos and Sex in
the City, and it was really imprompate, know, and it
was like, you know, coming off of the O C
and getting the gospel col books. It was like another
teen drama. I don't know, I feel like we just
did this, but it's said in New York and that
(03:36):
is cool, and that's a whole other vibe in a
different world. And that was for us, was like the
selling point. This idea, or one of the key selling points,
was the idea of like, but it's the New York
version and you haven't really seen that, and so it
was just it had it had to happen. Yeah, it's
the world of Catcher in the Rye, like it goes
all the way back, and that had never been on TV.
(03:57):
That like wealthy New or Upper east Side high school experience.
It was also cool whenever you came to saturay're in
the Silver Cup offices because we shared offices. It was
Gossip Girl, Sopranos, and thirty Rock. Yeah, got some rad companies. Yeah.
We also were talking about how much like we lived
it up in New York and how good the city
(04:18):
was to everyone. The city basically like every venue or
art gallery or restaurant or club, everyone wanted to be
some part of the show. So they literally it didn't
matter if it was Madonna at Madison Square Garden or
art exhibit and Chelsea. Everything was just always like here here, here, here, here,
And we were like, yeah, you guys are asked. You
guys are real assholes. You had a whole thing. It
(04:42):
was awesome and was like can you believe everything we did?
I'm like no. I remember we went to a rap
party at the Box one night that you know that club,
and Ed walked up to the doorman was like, this
is my club because it was actually where we shot
his club you on the show, his fake club, Vitrol. Yeah.
Dorman was like, what are you talking about? This is
but let him in. But we were making the pilot.
(05:04):
Nobody knew who we were, nobody knew what the show was.
We could shoot in like Grand Central Station, you know,
like that was an actual New York location, but everybody
else was like no. And Pete Homeburg managed the Palace Hotel. Okay,
I was like, I know, I know that name. Yeah,
so he was the guy who was like in charge
of saying yes you could shoot there or not. Literally,
(05:26):
no one would let us shoot anywhere. They didn't know
what the show was. They were turned off by the
idea of teenagers drinking at the bar whatever it was.
She was like, I read the script and I think
it's fabulous, and he was like he was, so he
was so in on the show. So that's why we're
at the palace. And from the palace everything kind of
built from there too. Then people were, you know, knocking
(05:48):
down the door being like can we shoot here? I
was gonna say, I felt like everyone wanted to be
So it was like season one people didn't know, and
then it trickled from there, and then it grew and
then actually it was funny. So for um Lily's wedding,
which was the end of season one, I'm like cooking
up like what this wedding should be, which is like
literally a million dollar wedding, Like it's gonna cost a
(06:09):
million dollar to shoot it. It's gonna be outside in
the garden at the Frick, and she needs a Vera
Wang dress and like at the time, Sylvia Weinstock probably
still makes these cakes, but she made this cake that
was like matched the bride's dress, which I just thought
was like the most elegant thing, and like, we've got
to do that, and then uh, our line producers looking
at me Amy Kapman going like, we cannot afford this
(06:31):
like this is this is a real event that you've
planned that we do not have the money to make.
So it was like, well, will Vera Wang give us
a dress if you know, we say Vera Wang, And
will Sylvia Weinstock give us a cake if she comes
on the show and like plays herself. And that was
kind of the beginning of doing that, and then it
(06:53):
really grew to you know, everybody in town wanting a
cameo and wanting to come beyond the show. And I
don't know that anybody ever said no to us, and
we had a mayor in Everyone wanted to embrace what
the show was, whether it was a musical performer or
whether it was a socialite or yeah, Lady Gaga making
(07:15):
an early early performance. Yeah, yeah, I did a scene
with Layton and I Floren St Vincent and incredible. I
was talking about Stephanie as a writer, but Stephane as
a producer equally as brilliant and figured out how to
get so much money on the screen and product integrations,
and was like, I mean, obviously we shot in the
Hampton's the season two premiere, which is very expensive and
(07:36):
hard to do. There may have been a pyramid of
vitamin water in the background, but like I remember, paid
for it, and Stephanie figured that out. And Stephanie's seventies
dream was to shoot an episode in Paris. And everybody's like,
you're insane. There's literally no way you'll ever be able
to afford shooting in Paris, and Stephanie's like, well, I'm
going to show you. We're doing it. Figured it out
(07:57):
when you guys got there. I remember, I don't know
if it was utterly telling me when they when they
got back, like how crazy it was the fans there
in Paris. Oh yeah. We were told be prepared, like
you're not gonna get the same crowds you get in
New York in Paris when you're shooting there because the
show is on but people don't really watch it or whatever.
And then it turned out that they don't. They didn't
watch it on whatever television station was on, but everybody
(08:20):
got it on satellite or I forget what other way
that they were illegally streaming the show in France, and
it was I have pictures from that shoot. The biggest
crowds the show ever got were the streets of Paris
lined out outside of the hotel, so That was another
instance of like, more people are watching this show than
we are aware of, they're just not watching it via
(08:41):
the conventional means. But I don't think the cast could
really go anywhere in Paris. I think they actually ended
up just like staying in their hotel. Now Ed couldn't
leave his hotel. Fortunately it was I think World Cups
and he just sat in his room and watched soccer,
but he couldn't leave his hotel. They were like girls
camped out on the sidewalk. And the friends produced is
that we worked with. They did the Sopranos, they did
(09:02):
Sex in the City, they did the Tourists with Johnny
Depp and Angelina Jolie, and they were like, We've never
seen crowds like this, that's crazy. I think that's a
real testament to know you guys knew your vision so
much and believed in what you wanted to bring from
the page to real life. And that's really amazing because
in the industry we're in, there's a lot of talented people,
and there's a lot of shows out there now, but
(09:24):
there's not a lot that hit and that are special
in the way. And even though the ratings weren't hitting,
which I don't think everyone really knows that it was
still so special in such a hit everywhere that it
still ended up going on for so many years, even
if the numbers weren't through the roof. The numbers of
that audience stuff was talking about like women eighteen and
thirty four. That's where it really started to pop and
(09:45):
do a really big number, and that was incredibly appealing
to advertisers, you know, So the network was happy with that,
and then I think the show just got a whole
rocket booster on it when it went to Netflix for
a whole other generation because it is so binge worthy
and if you didn't grow up in that time, it's
a perfect way of experiencing the mid two thousand's in
New York. Yeah, but then it also was like timeless,
(10:06):
even the fashion like the other days, Like if you
watched it and they didn't have a sidekick, you could
still see the fashion today. No. Eric Gammon was such
a Eric Gammon, who did you know as a costume designer,
he's doing the new Gossip Girl. I mean, he's such
a visionary. He was so ahead of the trends that,
as you said, it's it's it feels like contemporary or
we've caught or those trends have come back around so
(10:27):
long it's come background. So when you guys were did
you take a bunch of meetings with stylists or did
you know Eric? Was it from Jump? Well, Eric actually
came from Amy Kaufman, our line producer. She'd worked on
an Indian movie with him, and she was like, I
just think he's really special and you should meet with them.
And I'm someone who when we do a show, I
do like my own book of terrors for all the characters,
(10:47):
which a lot of producers do not do. And I'm
sure a lot of costume designers do not appreciate that
you're meeting and you've brought your own book book and
like that's kind of their job. Um. But Eric had
also done tears, and we had such similar tears, like
literally some of the same images that we were both
(11:08):
just like oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
Like just Ali McGraw love story references for Blair and Nate. Um,
we both had the idea of dressing coatian Is as
not twins, but always echoing each other, which I was
I thought that was a very special out their idea
and he had exactly the same idea. So we left
(11:29):
that initial meeting just completely in love with each other
and on the same page. And then for really season
one of the show, my job just became protecting Eric
so that he could do what he wanted to do,
and a lot of the ideas that he were pitching
were not mainstream ideas, like Serena has a look in
the you know exactly what I'm gonna say, Serena has
(11:50):
a look in the pilot where she's wearing shorts with tights,
and I got so much pushback, why is she wearing
shorts with tights? Can't she just wear a skirt? And
then every time that happened, I would just write an
essay about why shorts with the new minister and then
like put links into like magazine articles show pictures of
like people wearing shorts, and they just be like, okay, fine,
(12:13):
we have to say yeah, yeah. And then eventually, once
it took off, they backed off and they understood that
Eric knew what he was doing because fashion was a
character in the show itself, so that was super important
to kind of like stay on that. So again doing
that with Eric and staying on the network or pushing
them back to like fight for That is also why
people fell in love with the fashion of it. I
(12:35):
remember going to be shocked, this fashion is not really
my thing. And I remember saying to Stephanie wants fingerless gloves, Really,
I don't understand it. Are you wearing gloves if they
have no fingers? And she's like, just trust me, okay,
let me do my thing. It work so and even
that I was like, I have to say, I don't
totally get fingerless gloves. It was a Jenny outfit when
(12:56):
she had her fashion show. She was wearing a fascinator.
She was wearing a really really short dressed with a
Peplin skirt, and I was just like, I know, it's
Isabella blow like UK reference. We're just gonna We're not
gonna like micromanage it. If Eric says finger those clouds
were doing to those clubs. Yeah, a certain point, you
hire people you believe in and you trust them to
do their best work and you try to get out
(13:16):
of the way. With Eric, you would never disappoint for sure.
He's just amazing. And it's funny because some of the
storyboard that you brought Stephanie that we're the same as
him lived in the wardrobe room for the whole show,
which is like so cute and cool. And also shout
out to Jenn and Amy hair and makeup for sure,
I mean incredible, you guys, Really the whole puzzle was
(13:37):
just epic. Everyone really brought it, brought different colors and
and it was just great. And I was just gonna
say shout out to Mark Pisnowski, who directed the pilot
and some other key episodes along the way, including the
Paris episode Thanksgiving Season one, the Paris episodes, and Mark
Pisnowski the Piz was someone who Dawn had a lot
of confidence in and a lot of faith in because
(13:57):
he had done Vroonica, Mars and some other shows for them,
and and so his involvement also gave us a lot
of support the network in the studio side as well.
So shout out to the pist I was watching. I
(14:19):
also told David Rappaport at the time, I like didn't
even realize how much you guys were touching on real
major like addiction, coming out to your parents, UM, a
lot of things, eating disorders, partying, drugs, divorces, heartbreak. Um,
can you guys play Clip three don't let some stupid
(14:40):
scandal make you run away like it did me, like
it does everyone in our worlds. Everything's horrible. My whole
life is falling apart. So rebuild it, Earl Waldorf. Remember, okay, well,
don't tell you where you are, you tell them staying fine,
(15:07):
I'll fight with you. Basically, when I was watching that,
I felt like Blair wanted to get away because Gossip Girl,
they they're living under like a magnifying glass, which is
basically kind of what life is now for a lot
of not just teenagers for people, but no one lives
in a glasshouse. People make mistakes, and Blair is so
worried about making a mistake that she wants to get
(15:28):
away because she's so worried what's going to go on
Gossip Girl, what people are going to think and judge,
And the way those two were in Serena being there
for her and saying it's okay and you guys just
I just felt like really hit that one. Serena's telling
her like just stay rebuild. Learned from it? Yeah, I mean,
for of all, I've like cousins who are in high
school who like watching goss Girl on Netflix because it's
vintage um, but I do think a lot of the
(15:52):
themes still hold up. You know that that there is
a timelessness to a lot of the fanatics, which is
why it continues to resonating. See now it's on HBO
Max and hopefully to just give you. But one of
the other things I wanted to mention that Stephanie really
so brilliantly brought to the show and a total credit
to her, is the complexity of female friendships and that
(16:13):
idea of the front of me and that your best
friend could also be your worst enemy. And I think
that's something that also really resonated for a lot of
women who were watching the show. And that was so
part of Blair and Serena's relationship that one minute they arrivals,
in the next minute their sisters, you know. And I
think that was something that infused so much of Stephanie
writing those characters. Well, thank you, Josh, but I do
(16:35):
think that was like something that was under represented on television.
It wasn't just about even though obviously Serena and Blair
have a conflict over Serena having slept with Nate, there
was still this feeling that, like female friendships are going
to be as important on this show as romantic relationships
and written with as much depth and complexity, and that
(16:57):
at the end of the day, it's the Serena. Our
relationship is really what you're watching. There's lots of other
super fun stuff, but they were the backbone of that world. Yeah,
and you do throughout the things you're like, oh, I
wish you know, you want a friend like that, or
you want someone to handle a situation the way they
do with each other, even if they're trying to kill
each other on the field hockey. But the way that
is so good, so good. But by the way, by
(17:19):
the end, you know, when Georgina shows up in town,
like the people can you know, realign and they like
work together. There's that sense of the non judging breakfast
club that was established to go back to what you
were saying about vulnerability and like everyone makes mistakes. Hopefully
the show, even though obviously it you know, told a
lot of stories about people getting their secrets, supposed that
(17:41):
the reality was if you had good friends, they really
didn't care and they loved you for you, and they
had also made mistakes and screwed up, and like everyone
could just hold each other and get through anything that
was thrown. Oh my god, that just gave me like
all these fields because it's so true. The other thing
that I remember blowing people's mind in the pilot between
Blair and Serena is when they go to have drinks
(18:03):
at the Palace Hotel and they're sitting at the bar,
and the idea that like two high schoolers were sitting
like they were, you know, women in their thirties at
the bar at the Palace Hotel and like teenagers do that,
and so many New York kids were like, yeah, that's
what we do. Yeah, yeah, that's what happened. What we do.
There's one more clip I just want to play on
(18:24):
talking about the friendship because this was wild to me
and I forgot that this happened. And you can't real
part of this. What are you talking about? You're starting
to scare me. Hey, hey, hey, where sisters? You're my family?
What is you as me? There's nothing that you could
ever say to make me let go? I love you?
(18:49):
What is it? I killed someone? You guys? That's like
why old? And she and she goes to Blair and
tells her, But it's just on that of like just
how deep their friendship is and you guys just always
kept everyone at the edge of their seat. It's literally
the last thing I thought she was going to say.
(19:10):
And I was a part of the show and watched
it years ago, and I still was like, what killed someone? No,
And that was all that was, Like, I mean, we
had to look each other, but I who are really
doing this? Because it was also at the end of
the episode. So if someone says that and you go
away and you have a commercial and you come back
and you explain what really happened, people can be like, oh, right, right,
(19:32):
But then we're going to give people a whole week
talk about that was could be good or like could
really make people bad? Um, I know you both obviously
have six sick taste of music. Did you guys bond
on that initially or did that come out from producing shows?
Because you guys like when I go back and listen,
you should see my spot my um to Sam, it's
(19:54):
like I made playlist from rewatching the show because it's
so good. And it wasn't always these like major justin
Timberlake Beyonce. It would be like rocker bands that people
didn't know, like Florence and the Machine was big in Europe,
but when she was coming on the show, she wasn't
really big here yet even and I was a huge
fan like Ed and I used to always trip on
like who you guys would have come on? Even Kings
of Leon were really big over there, But until Sex
(20:16):
on Fire hit in the States, people didn't even know
who they were here, So you guys were always like
ahead of the game, like, yeah, we love music music.
Josh is definitely like a big music head. I loved
music growing up, but I had kind of like given
up on music. I was like, I have Sonic, Youth, Pavement,
sebadohe like I have my Hands nineties, but I'm just
(20:37):
gonna roll with and I don't need any more music
because I just wasn't responding to anything. And then when
we did the o C, Josh and Alex pasavas our
music supervisor, really kind of like brought me back to
life of liking indie music and recognizing that that stuff
was out there. You just had to dig a little.
And then the o C was such a great platform
that we could dig a little, and then we could
(20:58):
bring it to a larger audience and that was actually
really powerful. So then when we were coming to do
Gossip Girl. It was just about thinking of what is
that musical palette that maybe it's not exactly the same
as d O C because the O C is like,
you know, a lot of wide shots of beaches and oceans,
and it's very sort of more like strummy and emo
(21:20):
and New York City shots can like take a different
you know, musical sensibility. So figuring out what that was
and how to make that work. Yeah, we talked a
lot about pop music and or you know, and pop
music was having a great moment when we were doing
the pilot, and that stuff that we wouldn't have played
on the OC because it didn't fit the the palette
(21:40):
of the show or it wasn't indie enough or whatever,
actually worked for gospel because there's something about New York
that just leans into that sort of pop music. Just
super what's coming out of people's car windows, what you're
walking into a club, what you're hearing like, it's just
such a melting pot of so many different sounds totally
so um it became an opportunity, and there was one
(22:02):
moment where we didn't get a song cleared and we
the last minute we put in a death Cap song
and we love death Cap and obviously, but that was
such a big part of the o C that we
felt like, yeah, don't mix the peanut butter and the chocolate,
you know a little bit right, right, So we we
tried not to go back to the well of our
OC bands with Gossip Girl and kind of forged a
new a new sound and that was super exciting and
(22:23):
we had like I remember we played um Lady Gaga
the Paparazzi in like the Hampton's episode that was the
very beginning of season two. I don't think anyone knew
her at all, but she remembered that well, which is
part of why she came on the show in season
whatever that was four or five and did a performance
for us, which was like she did that when she
(22:45):
was in New York doing her Saturday Night Live, so
that was like a huge deal. We played Florence before
she was on the show. Yeah. It's funny though, because
when you watched we actually sent us Florence. I think
she had seen her in London or something. When you
watched The Island, there's so much music in the pilot.
It's kind of it was like the record for most
(23:05):
amount of money that they had ever spent on music,
and they just wanted it to be this. It was
more even than we were comfortable with at times, but
it was just like all these it's pretty wall to
wall at times and it all worked, but it was
it was very expensive and we're like, how are you
guys going to pay for all of this music? And
you know, and they were willing to. They were willing
to step and spend the money. Yeah, amazing. How did
(23:28):
it come about that you guys would use like titles
of movies for the titles of the episodes, like The Departed,
the Wild Brunch. Yeah. I think it started a little
bit as laziness of like just puns or it's just
so creative, but then they got really good. They started
like The Wild Brunch and The Blair Project. Yes, so
(23:54):
good that they started making posters. Yeah, and then the
art department would make posters for a thin Line between
Chuck and Nate Death are script supervisor came up with
that because that was episode we shot during the writers strike.
It didn't have a title, and I was very like,
I wanted the episodes to be produced, but I wasn't
(24:14):
going to write anything for them because it was supposed
to be pencils down. So I was like, I can't
come up with an episode title that the crew has
to come up with the title, and he came out,
that's one of my favorite titles, and he came up
with how it's awesome? Was it bitter sweet when the
(24:40):
show was coming to an end? Or were you ready
for the next job? Or how how was that? Um?
I think it was a really nice arc because for me,
the most important thing was getting to a hundred episodes.
When you do add yeah, they throw you what used
to be a thing they probably don't do anymore. They
throw you a party and mate and you get a
(25:00):
big cake. The O C went to what Josh nine
so close? Um, and Chuck went to, oh my god,
like just give me a hundred. I'm like, I'm getting
my cake. That I want my cake. So the cake
was like halfway through season five, Blair's wedding to the
(25:23):
Prince was a hundredth episode. So for me that was like,
we did it. And then they wanted half of the
season six and we were a little like, okay, but
we don't want to push our luck. But then season
six was really beautiful because everyone kind of knew the
show was ending, and we were only doing ten episodes.
We're going to be finished by Thanksgiving. So it was
(25:44):
like senior year of high school where everyone could be
in a good mood and be happy to be there
because they could kind of they were starting to get
nostalgic and starting to realize that this was actually gonna
be over, which some people were looking forward to. But
even those people were like, oh, there's actually the things
that all miss right for sure? Uh um? And are
(26:04):
you guys having so much fun with the new one?
We are? I mean, you know, Josh Saffren, who obviously
was a writer and uh and eventually executive producer on
the original show, is really the guy who is running
that show and boots on the ground there. But the
cast is amazing and beautiful. Well yeah, but also she
really lovely and they had a real tall order of
(26:26):
being like the first thing to shoot in New York
post COVID or not even post COVID during COVID, and
so they had a real um trial by fire in
that way where they kind of became their own pod,
you know, the only thing they were allowed to hang
out with, and it forged really beautiful bond and not
being able to go home for holidays. You know, if
they have an intimate scene with someone, they have to
(26:48):
have a isolate over the weekend. Like it's it's a lot, wow, definitely,
just definitely. I just roll into town and we're like,
let let us tell you about the mid Auks in
New York Cities. Know you about a sidekick telephone lady?
I know what had ever heard of her? Were like
those people and they like those stories for sure? And
(27:12):
is the is everyone like are their crowds outside and stuff?
Is it different now? COVID has definitely changed the game
a little bit, you know in terms of like large
hordes of people waiting. Um. But it's definitely starting to
draw attention and catch on and hopefully everybody stays you know, grounded,
and and the shorter seasons now they only do like
ten episodes, so they have more time off. You know.
(27:34):
It's it's not quite the same schedule that you guys
were were put through. They were working ten hour days
because we did I don't think we knew that. Yeah
that was called then that was the morning. That was
the morning for you guys. Yeah, one other thing I
wanted to say, you know how you you were talking
about like the age group like women was it, would
(27:55):
you say thirty five or well, I think the medium
age of the show is actually older than you. The
average age of the show was like thirty two. Okay,
because now too, I feel like Brad plays hockey and
I meet all these hockey guys that are like, it's
my favorite show. I'll go over to Europe and it's like,
oh the women, oh their men, people in high school.
So I feel like it really hit everyone outside of
(28:16):
that which you guys were going for. Sometimes when people
come up and I'm like, oh do I know this person,
They're like, were you Vanessa? And I'm like, you watched it?
It's like not not the demographic at all, which is
just really cool that so many different people and ages
just really got into it. And I think that's just
so cool. In the beginning, a lot of guys would
be like, it's my girlfriends the background watching it. But
(28:38):
I really like, Chuck, you know you watched the show
just to make you watch the show. It's fun. Just
say it. Yeah, And now I think, yeah, now people
have no problem saying it. But I feel like more
now is like these athletes are men even more than ever.
So I just think it's cool because it just really
hit everybody. Well, I'm so pumped and happy for everything
(29:01):
you guys have going on. This has been such a
fun walk down memory natural. Thank you. That's very nice.
Um it just like you guys just brought so much
joy to so many people, a lot of moments where
people learned and we're growing and laughed, cried. We personally
all went through a lot. We professionally all went through
(29:23):
a lot. And to be able to be a part
of all these viewers and fans that like change their
life watching the show is so special. Yeah, that's so sweet.
And we are just curators. You know. You guys are
all amazing at what you do and all special and
your chemistry will never be recreated again. We were just
hopefully wise enough to like put you all in the
(29:45):
same room and like give you some stories to tell
where you could all be on screen together. We had
so much fun. And I also like want to bring
on some of the new ones and talk about all that,
because it's just awesome and beautiful what you guys are
now doing again. One of the nice things too is
how much they love the original show and for them
to be able to like walk the same halls at
(30:06):
the same school that you guys walked is like it's
an honor, you know, that's something they're excited about. They
look up to the work that you guys all did. Oh,
that's like so nice to hear because I know what
you guys are doing is just amazing and people are
loving it. And again, like being part of Gossip Girl,
you look at it in a different lens being a
part of it and all the things that came with it,
and even watching it back it was like watching a
different show kind of in a way. And also that
(30:28):
might be because I'm a mom now you know you
look at things differently that way. But it's so crazy
and then now you know there's different I don't want
issues or different things that kids go through. Um, and
you guys just always did a really good job on
shining light and trying to keep it grounded and real
but also flashy and edgy. You guys, just the mix
that you put into this bowl and put out is
(30:50):
just like can't be done by anyone else and it's
just super super rad. Thank you. You do look at
it differently as a parent because my oldest is going
to turn ten next month, and she's like, I want
to watch Gossip Girl. And I'm like, oh god, this
is the big karmic you know, like my kids are
watching gossip Girl and I'm not okay with it. Before
I had kids, I was like relaxed, and now I'm like,
(31:11):
oh god, yeah, well and kind of like some of
the things in ours, like on the c W, you
could only push it so far. Like I remember the
threesome with Hillary Duff and you know, Dan Vanessa and
like we we didn't show anything and we kissed and
it was like the worst thing. And now like if
on HBO, you know, we had to cut it into
two parts so that one part of it was in
(31:33):
one episode and part of it was in another episode,
because it was just it was, yeah, people saw it
all over one piece. I just love a sentence begins.
When I was doing My three Son with Hillary Duff,
there was not like you we couldn't show very much
or do that, and we you know, pushed it however
far and people were like tripping over it. And now
(31:53):
on TV anything you turn on and you're like, okay,
that was a conversation. That was a big conversation with
the new one that we have with Saffron quite a bit,
and you know, and he was always saying like, it's
not just because we can get away with it doesn't
mean we should. It doesn't have it doesn't have to
be euphoria, you know, which is a great joy but
obviously extremely provocative. You know, we can obviously more swearing
(32:16):
on scirl and there's more. It's kind of gender fluidity
or sexual issues that are getting brought to the forefront
a little bit more boldly than pause than we were
allowed to do back then. But we're not just doing whatever.
We're still respectful it exactly. But I also definitely don't
want my kid watching that version. It is a different
(32:36):
way when you look. It's it's so crazy. But thanks
for coming on, you guys look awesome. Well thanks for
thanks for coming to my pool party all those years ago.
I mean it changed my life. And it's so funny
you guys that you both knew that the whole time
I was there and didn't bring it up. That's very
gangster of you guys. By the way, on a weekend,
(32:57):
we want people to have a nice time, you know. Yeah,
you want to feel like, yeah, everyone who walks through
the front door needs to audition, and right, I had
no idea. I was just like going about it. It
was it was, yeah, that's awesome. Well, it's great to
see you. Thank you for having us you too. Al Right, guys,
we'll talk soon for sure. Okay, bye, Okay. I know
(33:19):
I already said it one hundred times, but I am
so thankful that they created this show, not just for
what it did for me, but for the people around
the world who connected with it and really enjoyed it.
Josh and Stephanie, you are truly amazing at what you
do and I just couldn't be happier that I had
an opportunity to work with both of you. Thank you
everyone for listening, and be sure to check out my
(33:39):
conversation with the amazing Kelly Rutherford also known as Lily
vander Woodson, which is also released today and like, comment
and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time.
Xl xl x O XO is produced by Propagate Content
and Meat Jessica's or Our show is executive produced by Langley.
(34:02):
Our producers are Diego Teppia, Emily Carr, and Hannah Harris.
Original music by Moxie and Lune, and the episode was
mixed by stathol Lansky
And I'm Stephanie Savage. You're the creators and executive producers
of Welcome Girl. Welcome back listeners, do your one and
only source into all things gossip grow. You know you
love it. X O x O. Here we are again,
(00:29):
Welcome back to x O x O. I'm Jessica's or
and the weight is over. People. Today you're going to
hear the second half of my conversation with Josh Swartz
and Stephanie Savage, the co creators of Gossip Girl. I
am so happy that you all love the first part
of our conversation and it makes me so excited to
share the second part with you all. So last time
we talked about how the show got adapted, the casting process,
(00:50):
and the early reviews and reactions to it. Well, today
we're going to dive into more aspects of the show.
Why we filmed in Paris, use movies for episode titles,
and so much more. It's incredible in film and television
how every little thing you see on screen is a
specific decision. Someone has to make the music, the script,
the locations, but also every hair clip, the cup someone
(01:12):
drinks out of the food they eat, the flower arrangement
in the back of the shot, literally everything, and these
two were the final say on all of those decisions
on Gossip Girl. It's so much work being a showrunner
and senior vision come to life. But they did it
also beautifully. Now once again, let's jump back into this
conversation with Josh Schwartz and Stephanie Savage. Did you always
(01:48):
know you were going to shoot New York? I know
that's a silly question because New York is also a
character in the show. Not a silly question. Not a
silly question. They wanted us to shoot a Warner Brothers.
They took us on a tour of the of the
Warner Brothers lot, which you do well as two Stars Hollow,
you know where they shot Gilmore Girls, And they were like, great,
this will be Central Park and there were some New
(02:09):
York streets and we were like, that can't make the
show if it's not set in New York. That's crazy.
And then Steph being the brilliant producer, figured out how
to do it. Well, it wasn't that hard. There was
like a big tax incentive in New York at the time,
and I think everyone at Warners was just nervous about
doing a show in New York because they hadn't done it,
(02:30):
so it just seemed very like, well, how are we
going to do that, Like who's going to produce it?
Like who's going to be the prop master? And you're like,
people will work it who live in more in New York,
We'll find them. Um. And then once once we started
putting that crew together, we had an amazing crew. I
will say we had Rock Orginado, who was an incredible
cinematographer who shot the Basque yapp movie. We had on
(02:53):
the pilot Joe Ready as our a D who was
Martin Scorsese's a D. Like he's thanked at the Accademy Awards.
Because people were just in New York and there was
not that much shooting that wasn't Law and Order. So
even though they were like, I don't really get it,
like a show about spoiled kids, like write mean stuff
about them on the internet, But I'll do it. It's creative.
(03:15):
It's interesting. You know, we're shooting on location. We got
a lot of crew from the Sopranos and Sex in
the City, and it was really imprompate, know, and it
was like, you know, coming off of the O C
and getting the gospel col books. It was like another
teen drama. I don't know, I feel like we just
did this, but it's said in New York and that
(03:36):
is cool, and that's a whole other vibe in a
different world. And that was for us, was like the
selling point. This idea, or one of the key selling points,
was the idea of like, but it's the New York
version and you haven't really seen that, and so it
was just it had it had to happen. Yeah, it's
the world of Catcher in the Rye, like it goes
all the way back, and that had never been on TV.
(03:57):
That like wealthy New or Upper east Side high school experience.
It was also cool whenever you came to saturay're in
the Silver Cup offices because we shared offices. It was
Gossip Girl, Sopranos, and thirty Rock. Yeah, got some rad companies. Yeah.
We also were talking about how much like we lived
it up in New York and how good the city
(04:18):
was to everyone. The city basically like every venue or
art gallery or restaurant or club, everyone wanted to be
some part of the show. So they literally it didn't
matter if it was Madonna at Madison Square Garden or
art exhibit and Chelsea. Everything was just always like here here, here, here, here,
And we were like, yeah, you guys are asked. You
guys are real assholes. You had a whole thing. It
(04:42):
was awesome and was like can you believe everything we did?
I'm like no. I remember we went to a rap
party at the Box one night that you know that club,
and Ed walked up to the doorman was like, this
is my club because it was actually where we shot
his club you on the show, his fake club, Vitrol. Yeah.
Dorman was like, what are you talking about? This is
but let him in. But we were making the pilot.
(05:04):
Nobody knew who we were, nobody knew what the show was.
We could shoot in like Grand Central Station, you know,
like that was an actual New York location, but everybody
else was like no. And Pete Homeburg managed the Palace Hotel. Okay,
I was like, I know, I know that name. Yeah,
so he was the guy who was like in charge
of saying yes you could shoot there or not. Literally,
(05:26):
no one would let us shoot anywhere. They didn't know
what the show was. They were turned off by the
idea of teenagers drinking at the bar whatever it was.
She was like, I read the script and I think
it's fabulous, and he was like he was, so he
was so in on the show. So that's why we're
at the palace. And from the palace everything kind of
built from there too. Then people were, you know, knocking
(05:48):
down the door being like can we shoot here? I
was gonna say, I felt like everyone wanted to be
So it was like season one people didn't know, and
then it trickled from there, and then it grew and
then actually it was funny. So for um Lily's wedding,
which was the end of season one, I'm like cooking
up like what this wedding should be, which is like
literally a million dollar wedding, Like it's gonna cost a
(06:09):
million dollar to shoot it. It's gonna be outside in
the garden at the Frick, and she needs a Vera
Wang dress and like at the time, Sylvia Weinstock probably
still makes these cakes, but she made this cake that
was like matched the bride's dress, which I just thought
was like the most elegant thing, and like, we've got
to do that, and then uh, our line producers looking
at me Amy Kapman going like, we cannot afford this
(06:31):
like this is this is a real event that you've
planned that we do not have the money to make.
So it was like, well, will Vera Wang give us
a dress if you know, we say Vera Wang, And
will Sylvia Weinstock give us a cake if she comes
on the show and like plays herself. And that was
kind of the beginning of doing that, and then it
(06:53):
really grew to you know, everybody in town wanting a
cameo and wanting to come beyond the show. And I
don't know that anybody ever said no to us, and
we had a mayor in Everyone wanted to embrace what
the show was, whether it was a musical performer or
whether it was a socialite or yeah, Lady Gaga making
(07:15):
an early early performance. Yeah, yeah, I did a scene
with Layton and I Floren St Vincent and incredible. I
was talking about Stephanie as a writer, but Stephane as
a producer equally as brilliant and figured out how to
get so much money on the screen and product integrations,
and was like, I mean, obviously we shot in the
Hampton's the season two premiere, which is very expensive and
(07:36):
hard to do. There may have been a pyramid of
vitamin water in the background, but like I remember, paid
for it, and Stephanie figured that out. And Stephanie's seventies
dream was to shoot an episode in Paris. And everybody's like,
you're insane. There's literally no way you'll ever be able
to afford shooting in Paris, and Stephanie's like, well, I'm
going to show you. We're doing it. Figured it out
(07:57):
when you guys got there. I remember, I don't know
if it was utterly telling me when they when they
got back, like how crazy it was the fans there
in Paris. Oh yeah. We were told be prepared, like
you're not gonna get the same crowds you get in
New York in Paris when you're shooting there because the
show is on but people don't really watch it or whatever.
And then it turned out that they don't. They didn't
watch it on whatever television station was on, but everybody
(08:20):
got it on satellite or I forget what other way
that they were illegally streaming the show in France, and
it was I have pictures from that shoot. The biggest
crowds the show ever got were the streets of Paris
lined out outside of the hotel, so That was another
instance of like, more people are watching this show than
we are aware of, they're just not watching it via
(08:41):
the conventional means. But I don't think the cast could
really go anywhere in Paris. I think they actually ended
up just like staying in their hotel. Now Ed couldn't
leave his hotel. Fortunately it was I think World Cups
and he just sat in his room and watched soccer,
but he couldn't leave his hotel. They were like girls
camped out on the sidewalk. And the friends produced is
that we worked with. They did the Sopranos, they did
(09:02):
Sex in the City, they did the Tourists with Johnny
Depp and Angelina Jolie, and they were like, We've never
seen crowds like this, that's crazy. I think that's a
real testament to know you guys knew your vision so
much and believed in what you wanted to bring from
the page to real life. And that's really amazing because
in the industry we're in, there's a lot of talented people,
and there's a lot of shows out there now, but
(09:24):
there's not a lot that hit and that are special
in the way. And even though the ratings weren't hitting,
which I don't think everyone really knows that it was
still so special in such a hit everywhere that it
still ended up going on for so many years, even
if the numbers weren't through the roof. The numbers of
that audience stuff was talking about like women eighteen and
thirty four. That's where it really started to pop and
(09:45):
do a really big number, and that was incredibly appealing
to advertisers, you know, So the network was happy with that,
and then I think the show just got a whole
rocket booster on it when it went to Netflix for
a whole other generation because it is so binge worthy
and if you didn't grow up in that time, it's
a perfect way of experiencing the mid two thousand's in
New York. Yeah, but then it also was like timeless,
(10:06):
even the fashion like the other days, Like if you
watched it and they didn't have a sidekick, you could
still see the fashion today. No. Eric Gammon was such
a Eric Gammon, who did you know as a costume designer,
he's doing the new Gossip Girl. I mean, he's such
a visionary. He was so ahead of the trends that,
as you said, it's it's it feels like contemporary or
we've caught or those trends have come back around so
(10:27):
long it's come background. So when you guys were did
you take a bunch of meetings with stylists or did
you know Eric? Was it from Jump? Well, Eric actually
came from Amy Kaufman, our line producer. She'd worked on
an Indian movie with him, and she was like, I
just think he's really special and you should meet with them.
And I'm someone who when we do a show, I
do like my own book of terrors for all the characters,
(10:47):
which a lot of producers do not do. And I'm
sure a lot of costume designers do not appreciate that
you're meeting and you've brought your own book book and
like that's kind of their job. Um. But Eric had
also done tears, and we had such similar tears, like
literally some of the same images that we were both
(11:08):
just like oh my god, oh my god, oh my god.
Like just Ali McGraw love story references for Blair and Nate. Um,
we both had the idea of dressing coatian Is as
not twins, but always echoing each other, which I was
I thought that was a very special out their idea
and he had exactly the same idea. So we left
(11:29):
that initial meeting just completely in love with each other
and on the same page. And then for really season
one of the show, my job just became protecting Eric
so that he could do what he wanted to do,
and a lot of the ideas that he were pitching
were not mainstream ideas, like Serena has a look in
the you know exactly what I'm gonna say, Serena has
(11:50):
a look in the pilot where she's wearing shorts with tights,
and I got so much pushback, why is she wearing
shorts with tights? Can't she just wear a skirt? And
then every time that happened, I would just write an
essay about why shorts with the new minister and then
like put links into like magazine articles show pictures of
like people wearing shorts, and they just be like, okay, fine,
(12:13):
we have to say yeah, yeah. And then eventually, once
it took off, they backed off and they understood that
Eric knew what he was doing because fashion was a
character in the show itself, so that was super important
to kind of like stay on that. So again doing
that with Eric and staying on the network or pushing
them back to like fight for That is also why
people fell in love with the fashion of it. I
(12:35):
remember going to be shocked, this fashion is not really
my thing. And I remember saying to Stephanie wants fingerless gloves, Really,
I don't understand it. Are you wearing gloves if they
have no fingers? And she's like, just trust me, okay,
let me do my thing. It work so and even
that I was like, I have to say, I don't
totally get fingerless gloves. It was a Jenny outfit when
(12:56):
she had her fashion show. She was wearing a fascinator.
She was wearing a really really short dressed with a
Peplin skirt, and I was just like, I know, it's
Isabella blow like UK reference. We're just gonna We're not
gonna like micromanage it. If Eric says finger those clouds
were doing to those clubs. Yeah, a certain point, you
hire people you believe in and you trust them to
do their best work and you try to get out
(13:16):
of the way. With Eric, you would never disappoint for sure.
He's just amazing. And it's funny because some of the
storyboard that you brought Stephanie that we're the same as
him lived in the wardrobe room for the whole show,
which is like so cute and cool. And also shout
out to Jenn and Amy hair and makeup for sure,
I mean incredible, you guys, Really the whole puzzle was
(13:37):
just epic. Everyone really brought it, brought different colors and
and it was just great. And I was just gonna
say shout out to Mark Pisnowski, who directed the pilot
and some other key episodes along the way, including the
Paris episode Thanksgiving Season one, the Paris episodes, and Mark
Pisnowski the Piz was someone who Dawn had a lot
of confidence in and a lot of faith in because
(13:57):
he had done Vroonica, Mars and some other shows for them,
and and so his involvement also gave us a lot
of support the network in the studio side as well.
So shout out to the pist I was watching. I
(14:19):
also told David Rappaport at the time, I like didn't
even realize how much you guys were touching on real
major like addiction, coming out to your parents, UM, a
lot of things, eating disorders, partying, drugs, divorces, heartbreak. Um,
can you guys play Clip three don't let some stupid
(14:40):
scandal make you run away like it did me, like
it does everyone in our worlds. Everything's horrible. My whole
life is falling apart. So rebuild it, Earl Waldorf. Remember, okay, well,
don't tell you where you are, you tell them staying fine,
(15:07):
I'll fight with you. Basically, when I was watching that,
I felt like Blair wanted to get away because Gossip Girl,
they they're living under like a magnifying glass, which is
basically kind of what life is now for a lot
of not just teenagers for people, but no one lives
in a glasshouse. People make mistakes, and Blair is so
worried about making a mistake that she wants to get
(15:28):
away because she's so worried what's going to go on
Gossip Girl, what people are going to think and judge,
And the way those two were in Serena being there
for her and saying it's okay and you guys just
I just felt like really hit that one. Serena's telling
her like just stay rebuild. Learned from it? Yeah, I mean,
for of all, I've like cousins who are in high
school who like watching goss Girl on Netflix because it's
vintage um, but I do think a lot of the
(15:52):
themes still hold up. You know that that there is
a timelessness to a lot of the fanatics, which is
why it continues to resonating. See now it's on HBO
Max and hopefully to just give you. But one of
the other things I wanted to mention that Stephanie really
so brilliantly brought to the show and a total credit
to her, is the complexity of female friendships and that
(16:13):
idea of the front of me and that your best
friend could also be your worst enemy. And I think
that's something that also really resonated for a lot of
women who were watching the show. And that was so
part of Blair and Serena's relationship that one minute they arrivals,
in the next minute their sisters, you know. And I
think that was something that infused so much of Stephanie
writing those characters. Well, thank you, Josh, but I do
(16:35):
think that was like something that was under represented on television.
It wasn't just about even though obviously Serena and Blair
have a conflict over Serena having slept with Nate, there
was still this feeling that, like female friendships are going
to be as important on this show as romantic relationships
and written with as much depth and complexity, and that
(16:57):
at the end of the day, it's the Serena. Our
relationship is really what you're watching. There's lots of other
super fun stuff, but they were the backbone of that world. Yeah,
and you do throughout the things you're like, oh, I
wish you know, you want a friend like that, or
you want someone to handle a situation the way they
do with each other, even if they're trying to kill
each other on the field hockey. But the way that
is so good, so good. But by the way, by
(17:19):
the end, you know, when Georgina shows up in town,
like the people can you know, realign and they like
work together. There's that sense of the non judging breakfast
club that was established to go back to what you
were saying about vulnerability and like everyone makes mistakes. Hopefully
the show, even though obviously it you know, told a
lot of stories about people getting their secrets, supposed that
(17:41):
the reality was if you had good friends, they really
didn't care and they loved you for you, and they
had also made mistakes and screwed up, and like everyone
could just hold each other and get through anything that
was thrown. Oh my god, that just gave me like
all these fields because it's so true. The other thing
that I remember blowing people's mind in the pilot between
Blair and Serena is when they go to have drinks
(18:03):
at the Palace Hotel and they're sitting at the bar,
and the idea that like two high schoolers were sitting
like they were, you know, women in their thirties at
the bar at the Palace Hotel and like teenagers do that,
and so many New York kids were like, yeah, that's
what we do. Yeah, yeah, that's what happened. What we do.
There's one more clip I just want to play on
(18:24):
talking about the friendship because this was wild to me
and I forgot that this happened. And you can't real
part of this. What are you talking about? You're starting
to scare me. Hey, hey, hey, where sisters? You're my family?
What is you as me? There's nothing that you could
ever say to make me let go? I love you?
(18:49):
What is it? I killed someone? You guys? That's like
why old? And she and she goes to Blair and
tells her, But it's just on that of like just
how deep their friendship is and you guys just always
kept everyone at the edge of their seat. It's literally
the last thing I thought she was going to say.
(19:10):
And I was a part of the show and watched
it years ago, and I still was like, what killed someone? No,
And that was all that was, Like, I mean, we
had to look each other, but I who are really
doing this? Because it was also at the end of
the episode. So if someone says that and you go
away and you have a commercial and you come back
and you explain what really happened, people can be like, oh, right, right,
(19:32):
But then we're going to give people a whole week
talk about that was could be good or like could
really make people bad? Um, I know you both obviously
have six sick taste of music. Did you guys bond
on that initially or did that come out from producing shows?
Because you guys like when I go back and listen,
you should see my spot my um to Sam, it's
(19:54):
like I made playlist from rewatching the show because it's
so good. And it wasn't always these like major justin
Timberlake Beyonce. It would be like rocker bands that people
didn't know, like Florence and the Machine was big in Europe,
but when she was coming on the show, she wasn't
really big here yet even and I was a huge
fan like Ed and I used to always trip on
like who you guys would have come on? Even Kings
of Leon were really big over there, But until Sex
(20:16):
on Fire hit in the States, people didn't even know
who they were here, So you guys were always like
ahead of the game, like, yeah, we love music music.
Josh is definitely like a big music head. I loved
music growing up, but I had kind of like given
up on music. I was like, I have Sonic, Youth, Pavement,
sebadohe like I have my Hands nineties, but I'm just
(20:37):
gonna roll with and I don't need any more music
because I just wasn't responding to anything. And then when
we did the o C, Josh and Alex pasavas our
music supervisor, really kind of like brought me back to
life of liking indie music and recognizing that that stuff
was out there. You just had to dig a little.
And then the o C was such a great platform
that we could dig a little, and then we could
(20:58):
bring it to a larger audience and that was actually
really powerful. So then when we were coming to do
Gossip Girl. It was just about thinking of what is
that musical palette that maybe it's not exactly the same
as d O C because the O C is like,
you know, a lot of wide shots of beaches and oceans,
and it's very sort of more like strummy and emo
(21:20):
and New York City shots can like take a different
you know, musical sensibility. So figuring out what that was
and how to make that work. Yeah, we talked a
lot about pop music and or you know, and pop
music was having a great moment when we were doing
the pilot, and that stuff that we wouldn't have played
on the OC because it didn't fit the the palette
(21:40):
of the show or it wasn't indie enough or whatever,
actually worked for gospel because there's something about New York
that just leans into that sort of pop music. Just
super what's coming out of people's car windows, what you're
walking into a club, what you're hearing like, it's just
such a melting pot of so many different sounds totally
so um it became an opportunity, and there was one
(22:02):
moment where we didn't get a song cleared and we
the last minute we put in a death Cap song
and we love death Cap and obviously, but that was
such a big part of the o C that we
felt like, yeah, don't mix the peanut butter and the chocolate,
you know a little bit right, right, So we we
tried not to go back to the well of our
OC bands with Gossip Girl and kind of forged a
new a new sound and that was super exciting and
(22:23):
we had like I remember we played um Lady Gaga
the Paparazzi in like the Hampton's episode that was the
very beginning of season two. I don't think anyone knew
her at all, but she remembered that well, which is
part of why she came on the show in season
whatever that was four or five and did a performance
for us, which was like she did that when she
(22:45):
was in New York doing her Saturday Night Live, so
that was like a huge deal. We played Florence before
she was on the show. Yeah. It's funny though, because
when you watched we actually sent us Florence. I think
she had seen her in London or something. When you
watched The Island, there's so much music in the pilot.
It's kind of it was like the record for most
(23:05):
amount of money that they had ever spent on music,
and they just wanted it to be this. It was
more even than we were comfortable with at times, but
it was just like all these it's pretty wall to
wall at times and it all worked, but it was
it was very expensive and we're like, how are you
guys going to pay for all of this music? And
you know, and they were willing to. They were willing
to step and spend the money. Yeah, amazing. How did
(23:28):
it come about that you guys would use like titles
of movies for the titles of the episodes, like The Departed,
the Wild Brunch. Yeah. I think it started a little
bit as laziness of like just puns or it's just
so creative, but then they got really good. They started
like The Wild Brunch and The Blair Project. Yes, so
(23:54):
good that they started making posters. Yeah, and then the
art department would make posters for a thin Line between
Chuck and Nate Death are script supervisor came up with
that because that was episode we shot during the writers strike.
It didn't have a title, and I was very like,
I wanted the episodes to be produced, but I wasn't
(24:14):
going to write anything for them because it was supposed
to be pencils down. So I was like, I can't
come up with an episode title that the crew has
to come up with the title, and he came out,
that's one of my favorite titles, and he came up
with how it's awesome? Was it bitter sweet when the
(24:40):
show was coming to an end? Or were you ready
for the next job? Or how how was that? Um?
I think it was a really nice arc because for me,
the most important thing was getting to a hundred episodes.
When you do add yeah, they throw you what used
to be a thing they probably don't do anymore. They
throw you a party and mate and you get a
(25:00):
big cake. The O C went to what Josh nine
so close? Um, and Chuck went to, oh my god,
like just give me a hundred. I'm like, I'm getting
my cake. That I want my cake. So the cake
was like halfway through season five, Blair's wedding to the
(25:23):
Prince was a hundredth episode. So for me that was like,
we did it. And then they wanted half of the
season six and we were a little like, okay, but
we don't want to push our luck. But then season
six was really beautiful because everyone kind of knew the
show was ending, and we were only doing ten episodes.
We're going to be finished by Thanksgiving. So it was
(25:44):
like senior year of high school where everyone could be
in a good mood and be happy to be there
because they could kind of they were starting to get
nostalgic and starting to realize that this was actually gonna
be over, which some people were looking forward to. But
even those people were like, oh, there's actually the things
that all miss right for sure? Uh um? And are
(26:04):
you guys having so much fun with the new one?
We are? I mean, you know, Josh Saffren, who obviously
was a writer and uh and eventually executive producer on
the original show, is really the guy who is running
that show and boots on the ground there. But the
cast is amazing and beautiful. Well yeah, but also she
really lovely and they had a real tall order of
(26:26):
being like the first thing to shoot in New York
post COVID or not even post COVID during COVID, and
so they had a real um trial by fire in
that way where they kind of became their own pod,
you know, the only thing they were allowed to hang
out with, and it forged really beautiful bond and not
being able to go home for holidays. You know, if
they have an intimate scene with someone, they have to
(26:48):
have a isolate over the weekend. Like it's it's a lot, wow, definitely,
just definitely. I just roll into town and we're like,
let let us tell you about the mid Auks in
New York Cities. Know you about a sidekick telephone lady?
I know what had ever heard of her? Were like
those people and they like those stories for sure? And
(27:12):
is the is everyone like are their crowds outside and stuff?
Is it different now? COVID has definitely changed the game
a little bit, you know in terms of like large
hordes of people waiting. Um. But it's definitely starting to
draw attention and catch on and hopefully everybody stays you know, grounded,
and and the shorter seasons now they only do like
ten episodes, so they have more time off. You know.
(27:34):
It's it's not quite the same schedule that you guys
were were put through. They were working ten hour days
because we did I don't think we knew that. Yeah
that was called then that was the morning. That was
the morning for you guys. Yeah, one other thing I
wanted to say, you know how you you were talking
about like the age group like women was it, would
(27:55):
you say thirty five or well, I think the medium
age of the show is actually older than you. The
average age of the show was like thirty two. Okay,
because now too, I feel like Brad plays hockey and
I meet all these hockey guys that are like, it's
my favorite show. I'll go over to Europe and it's like,
oh the women, oh their men, people in high school.
So I feel like it really hit everyone outside of
(28:16):
that which you guys were going for. Sometimes when people
come up and I'm like, oh do I know this person,
They're like, were you Vanessa? And I'm like, you watched it?
It's like not not the demographic at all, which is
just really cool that so many different people and ages
just really got into it. And I think that's just
so cool. In the beginning, a lot of guys would
be like, it's my girlfriends the background watching it. But
(28:38):
I really like, Chuck, you know you watched the show
just to make you watch the show. It's fun. Just
say it. Yeah, And now I think, yeah, now people
have no problem saying it. But I feel like more
now is like these athletes are men even more than ever.
So I just think it's cool because it just really
hit everybody. Well, I'm so pumped and happy for everything
(29:01):
you guys have going on. This has been such a
fun walk down memory natural. Thank you. That's very nice.
Um it just like you guys just brought so much
joy to so many people, a lot of moments where
people learned and we're growing and laughed, cried. We personally
all went through a lot. We professionally all went through
(29:23):
a lot. And to be able to be a part
of all these viewers and fans that like change their
life watching the show is so special. Yeah, that's so sweet.
And we are just curators. You know. You guys are
all amazing at what you do and all special and
your chemistry will never be recreated again. We were just
hopefully wise enough to like put you all in the
(29:45):
same room and like give you some stories to tell
where you could all be on screen together. We had
so much fun. And I also like want to bring
on some of the new ones and talk about all that,
because it's just awesome and beautiful what you guys are
now doing again. One of the nice things too is
how much they love the original show and for them
to be able to like walk the same halls at
(30:06):
the same school that you guys walked is like it's
an honor, you know, that's something they're excited about. They
look up to the work that you guys all did. Oh,
that's like so nice to hear because I know what
you guys are doing is just amazing and people are
loving it. And again, like being part of Gossip Girl,
you look at it in a different lens being a
part of it and all the things that came with it,
and even watching it back it was like watching a
different show kind of in a way. And also that
(30:28):
might be because I'm a mom now you know you
look at things differently that way. But it's so crazy
and then now you know there's different I don't want
issues or different things that kids go through. Um, and
you guys just always did a really good job on
shining light and trying to keep it grounded and real
but also flashy and edgy. You guys, just the mix
that you put into this bowl and put out is
(30:50):
just like can't be done by anyone else and it's
just super super rad. Thank you. You do look at
it differently as a parent because my oldest is going
to turn ten next month, and she's like, I want
to watch Gossip Girl. And I'm like, oh god, this
is the big karmic you know, like my kids are
watching gossip Girl and I'm not okay with it. Before
I had kids, I was like relaxed, and now I'm like,
(31:11):
oh god, yeah, well and kind of like some of
the things in ours, like on the c W, you
could only push it so far. Like I remember the
threesome with Hillary Duff and you know, Dan Vanessa and
like we we didn't show anything and we kissed and
it was like the worst thing. And now like if
on HBO, you know, we had to cut it into
two parts so that one part of it was in
(31:33):
one episode and part of it was in another episode,
because it was just it was, yeah, people saw it
all over one piece. I just love a sentence begins.
When I was doing My three Son with Hillary Duff,
there was not like you we couldn't show very much
or do that, and we you know, pushed it however
far and people were like tripping over it. And now
(31:53):
on TV anything you turn on and you're like, okay,
that was a conversation. That was a big conversation with
the new one that we have with Saffron quite a bit,
and you know, and he was always saying like, it's
not just because we can get away with it doesn't
mean we should. It doesn't have it doesn't have to
be euphoria, you know, which is a great joy but
obviously extremely provocative. You know, we can obviously more swearing
(32:16):
on scirl and there's more. It's kind of gender fluidity
or sexual issues that are getting brought to the forefront
a little bit more boldly than pause than we were
allowed to do back then. But we're not just doing whatever.
We're still respectful it exactly. But I also definitely don't
want my kid watching that version. It is a different
(32:36):
way when you look. It's it's so crazy. But thanks
for coming on, you guys look awesome. Well thanks for
thanks for coming to my pool party all those years ago.
I mean it changed my life. And it's so funny
you guys that you both knew that the whole time
I was there and didn't bring it up. That's very
gangster of you guys. By the way, on a weekend,
(32:57):
we want people to have a nice time, you know. Yeah,
you want to feel like, yeah, everyone who walks through
the front door needs to audition, and right, I had
no idea. I was just like going about it. It
was it was, yeah, that's awesome. Well, it's great to
see you. Thank you for having us you too. Al Right, guys,
we'll talk soon for sure. Okay, bye, Okay. I know
(33:19):
I already said it one hundred times, but I am
so thankful that they created this show, not just for
what it did for me, but for the people around
the world who connected with it and really enjoyed it.
Josh and Stephanie, you are truly amazing at what you
do and I just couldn't be happier that I had
an opportunity to work with both of you. Thank you
everyone for listening, and be sure to check out my
(33:39):
conversation with the amazing Kelly Rutherford also known as Lily
vander Woodson, which is also released today and like, comment
and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. Until next time.
Xl xl x O XO is produced by Propagate Content
and Meat Jessica's or Our show is executive produced by Langley.
(34:02):
Our producers are Diego Teppia, Emily Carr, and Hannah Harris.
Original music by Moxie and Lune, and the episode was
mixed by stathol Lansky
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