October 10, 2023 • 46 mins
These days, when Congress is so often paralyzed by in-fighting between the extreme and the more extreme wings of the Republican Party, it’s often up to states to fend for themselves. That puts a lot of responsibility in the hands of our governors - responsibility that some use for good, and others use for ill.
On today’s episode, Hillary talks with two newly-minted governors who are doing everything they can to improve the lives and future prospects of the people whom they serve.
Before taking office as the first woman and first LGBTQ+ governor of Massachusetts, Maura Healey had already proved her mettle—first as a college and pro-basketball player, later as the Chief of the Civil Rights Division of the Attorney General’s Office, and then as the first openly gay Attorney General in the country. She shares her priorities with Hillary, from making life in Massachusetts more affordable, to tackling climate change, easing the migrant crisis, and encouraging young people to see themselves as future leaders.
The first public office Maryland Governor Wes Moore ever ran for is the one he now holds. But his experiences as the child of a single immigrant mother, a U.S. Army Captain, and CEO of the Robin Hood Foundation gave him his “why”—to lift families out of poverty, promote economic growth, and lead young people to public service. He won in a landslide, making him the first Black governor of Maryland, and only the third elected Black governor anywhere in the country. He and Hillary talk about how he’s settling into the job, what he’s been able to accomplish, and why you’ve got to celebrate the wins even when they come with compromises.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me both.
You know, with our federal government so often paralyzed these
days by infighting between the extreme and the more extreme
wings of the Republican Party, more than ever, it's up
to our state and local leaders to get things done,
and that puts a lot of responsibility in the hands
(00:23):
of our governors.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Some use that power in cruel and.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Destructive ways, by implementing abortion bands, taking away voting rights,
or treating migrants not as human beings but as political pawns.
But meanwhile, others are using that power for good. Today,
I'm talking to two recently minted governors who are doing
everything they can to improve the lives and future prospects
(00:52):
of the citizens whom they serve. Both of my guests
have broken through all kinds of barriers to get to
where they are today. Later we'll be hearing from Governor
Wes Moore of Maryland, But first I want to introduce
you to Maura Healy, Governor of Massachusetts. Before taking office
(01:14):
as the first woman and first openly gay governor of Massachusetts,
Maura had already accomplished a lot. She'd played professional basketball,
Despite it has to be said, her kind of small stature.
She'd served as the chief of the Civil Rights Division
of the Attorney General's Office in Massachusetts and then been
(01:36):
elected as the first openly gay attorney general. Now, Maura
is an unabashed progressive, but first and foremost, she is
dedicated to getting things done, bringing the people of Massachusetts
together to deal with everything from the climate crisis to
the opioid epidemic, to housing shortages, poverty, to civil and
(02:01):
human rights. She's off to a great start, and I'm
thrilled to welcome her to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
There she is the governor.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Good morning, time I see you, and every time I
get to say that, I get a big thrill.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Secondary It is always so great to see Thanks for
having me on.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I want to start with your athletic career because one
of the things that is very clearly connected among many
women in public life is that they did have some
kind of sports background. And I want to know how
you decided to compete in basketball, because you know, our
(02:43):
listeners can't see you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean, you're a mighty person, but you're not six
feet tall.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Well that that is true.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I am five four and probably shrinking every day, so
obviously I was a point guard when it came to basketball,
But for me as a young kid, it's sort of
found me. I was athletic, and I loved playing sports,
and probably about the time I was ten years old,
really serious about basketball. I kept playing other sports, soccer
and tennis, but basketball I really loved and it.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Also provided a real release to me.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
When I was about ten, that's when my parents split up,
and I think as the oldest of five, I sort
of threw myself into school, threw myself into athletics right
and it provided a really healthy outlet for me. You know.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I grew up in a little.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Town in New Hampshire, as you know, and so going
to Roanoak, Virginia, or down to Oxford, Mississippi to play
in junior Olympic tournaments when you're thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years
old also opened up my eyes and my worldview. That
continued through college, where I had the chance to captain
the team at Harvard, and then I played professionally overseas
(03:55):
for a couple of years in Europe because at the
time there were no women's pro leagues here in the States.
So that's what you did. I carry the experiences of
athletics with me every day. And I think this gets
to your comment about women in leadership. You learn a
lot about how to build confidence self esteem. Literally, when
(04:15):
you're out there on a court at the foul line
shooting a one on one, people are watching, so you
sort of get used to having to perform. Sometimes you
fail and you don't make the shot, and you learn
to get up and go forward and move on. I
think also you learn a lot about discipline. And when
I ran as a very unlikely politician, I treated every
(04:40):
day of the campaign just like a season. Every day
was practice, get up, get after it. You don't just
show up and play in the files, right, So you
learn a lot about discipline. You learn a lot about
hard work, really, and I think something women are particularly
good at teamwork.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Right. I think that's a terrific explanation.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And as someone who has you know, been on the
front lines of athletics, and then through your service and
the Attorney General's office, then becoming Attorney General yourself, and
now governor, you've been able to see how getting that
sense of commitment every day makes a difference. Because if
(05:20):
you get knocked down, which we all do, you got
to get back up.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah, you do. And you know, along the way it's
important to have fun.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So you know, I do continue to get out and
play basketball with kids and youth programs and do that
while you know, doing work that can be really grueling.
And you know, I think that's just part of what
it means to be in government, particularly these days.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
But you know, I have to say I do this job.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And people can evaluate how well or how poorly I
do it. I do it with a view that I'm
here for as long as I'm here, I want to
make the most of every day.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
It's why I probably operate with a heightened level of urgent.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
See that is probably too much sometimes for people to
take around me as we're trying to you know, execute
and move on a lot of fronts. But you know,
I don't really pay attention to the critics. You sort
of follow you and you do what you think is
right and just keep moving forward. And you know, part
of the discipline I guess of athletics is you literally
(06:20):
learn to block out the crowd.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, right, you have to. You're at the foul line.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You have to block out the booze and the jeers
and all that and just focus on the shot.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, boy, does that resonate with me, because yeah, you
and I have both been the.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Subject of more than a few jeers and razzing during
our political careers. Well, I want to talk about the
state that you are now privileged to be governor of,
because you know, people think of Massachusetts as, you know,
this blue state that is so liberal. And you know,
I've spent enough time in Massachusetts, went to college in Massachusetts,
(06:59):
campaign for my self and others, and I love your state.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
But it's a tough political environment.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I mean it is lots of sharp elbows, lots of
you know, really tough battles. And you actually flipped that
governor's seat from your predecessor, who was a Republican. So
tell us a little bit about the politics and the
political landscape of Massachusetts that people outside might not understand.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, let me just say I think Massachusetts it's the
greatest state in the country, right, I just you know,
aren't you.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Running billboards and places like Florida?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
I am, and my message has come here.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
You know what, We'll make sure you have access to healthcare,
We'll protect voting rights and civil rights.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
We stand up for LGBTQ.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Plus you know, members of our community we make sure
that women have access to the reproductive health care that
they need, and we really value and invest in education
and workforce. So you know, that's my stump on Massachusetts politically.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
You're absolutely right. It's a state.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Where you know, for many, many years, the majority of
governors have been Republican see Mitt Romney, Bill Weld, Charlie Baker.
So yes, I happen to be the first woman ever
elected governor, first gaye person elected governor in our state.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And you know, I ran.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
As a proud Democrat with a progressive record, and now
have the opportunity to serve and to serve a state
that really is in many ways a microcosm of this country.
We have very blue areas, particularly in our cities, we
have red areas, and we have purple areas. It really
(08:37):
is truly a microcosm. And I think that's something that
sometimes is missed in how Massachusetts is talked about or perceived.
It's why, you know, nothing's a layup nothing.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You take nothing for granted.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
If you're running a race and campaigning here, if you're
looking to push forward your agenda, you have to get
out and earn every vote and earn every opportunity for
support for your agenda. You know, my job as governor
is to make sure that everybody, no matter what their
zip code is, right in Massachusetts, has a shot, has opportunity. Right,
(09:12):
We're really really focused on an economic growth agenda here.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, And do you think that was the political message
that most resonated with voters as you were campaigning?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, I think we ran a really positive campaign, positive
in the sense of like, let's go, you know, let's
get it done, Let's make the investments in our people.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
You know, coming out of COVID.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Where I think there was a lot of I wouldn't
say malaise, but depression, just people down, a lot of dislocation,
tremendous disruption, people needing to sort of see a sense
of purpose, opportunity like this is where we're going, this
is what we can make happen. And I think that
really resonated with people. And I definitely was offering up
(09:54):
an agenda of making life in Massachusetts more affordable by
cutting tac by increasing housing because we've got a challenge
with housing costs here, making life more equitable and fair,
more opportunity for more people, and making our state more competitive,
which is why I'm leaning in on a package of
(10:15):
tax cuts and some other measures to make Massachusetts attractive
not only to residents, I also want employers coming to Massachusetts,
where you know, I think there is this incredible amount
of human talent, intellectual talent, innovation, entrepreneurship.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
My job as governor is to help support and seed that.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Well, that's a great campaign outline because it certainly caught
the imagination of your voters, and you won overwhelmingly. But
as you know, the late great Mario Cuomo once famously said,
you campaign and poetry and your government prose. And so
now you've been governor and you've had to translate those
(10:56):
really important aspirations into policies.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So give us a quick update where you.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Are, as you're now into that hard but essential task
of governing your state.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
It is, It is hard, and some days you're making
more progress than other days. But I have to say,
eight months in, I am really pleased with what we've accomplished.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
We've been able to.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Do universal free school meals for students across Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
That's a big deal to me.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Too many dealing with food and security, Now they don't
have to worry about that. We got that done. We
made community college free for everyone twenty five years and older.
It turned out we had seven hundred thousand people in
Massachusetts who had some credits towards a degree, but then
life got in the way and they could no longer
afford it. Now we're bringing them in back off the
(11:48):
sidelines free community college, which is absolutely essential to our workforce.
I appointed the country's first climate chief. She sits atop
all my secretariats and drives a climate agenda on transportation,
on healthcare, on workforce and labor, you name it, it's
happening there. I just went out another accomplishment. I just
(12:09):
went out with the largest bid for offshore wind great
and I'm really excited about what that's going to mean
for our move from fossil fuels to renewables. It's also
a huge economic engine and driver, and Biden Harris administration
came through with some funding to support us because they
see what we're trying to do in a space where
(12:30):
we're going to address climate, we're going to grow great
paying jobs and healthier communities. So that's just a little
snapshot of a day in a life. We've got an
issue that is not unfamiliar to you where we have
migrants coming to Massachusetts. I have been leaning hard on
the Biden administration. These folks need to work, they want
(12:50):
to work, and we have a workforce challenge when it
comes to so many industries out there. These are folks
who could be working tomorrow in construction and hospitality at
our hospitals and nursing homes, and so you know, my
goal is to get expedited work permits and authorizations for them.
But those are just some of the things that we're
working on.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
There is so much work. And for somebody like you
who loves to roll your sleeves.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Up and get into that nitty gritty, you are blessed
to be governor at a time when there are federal resources.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
But there are also federal problems. And you mentioned one,
which is immigration and the failure to move more quickly
to enable people to work who want to work. And
early on you mentioned reproductive health, and you and I
are both reading how some states are trying to literally
criminalize leaving your state to get the reproductive health care
(13:43):
that you need and deserve. But I think on immigration,
on reproductive health, you're going to be you know, having
to join forces with other like minded governors, because this
is a battle that unfortunately is not easily solved, because
the other party wants a problem with immigration, not a solution,
(14:04):
and the other party is driven by the most extreme
views about abortion.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
I think that governors really sit at this point where
you know, we can act for good or we can
act for ill. And I think you've seen that play
out across the country where frankly, you've seen governors take
actions that are about stripping voting rights, stripping civil rights,
demonizing and dehumanizing members of the LGBTQ plus community, going
(14:30):
after and attacking migrants and those who are simply coming
to this country looking for a better way of life
and wanting to contribute. Those who will deny, you know, science,
and deny what's happening with our climate, even though storms
and floods and hurricanes. I had nine tornadoes, Hillary, I
had nine tornadoes in Massachusetts this summer.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I talked to my friend Governor Kelly and Kansas. I said,
what am I supposed to do with the tornado? She's like, what,
just you get under a desk? I mean, we never
had to talk about these things before. So it's just
to say there are these forces out there, right, governors
who are out there just furthering, perpetuating misinformation, disinformation, harming
their own people, right exactly, I guess further into some
(15:18):
perceived political gain. And we have an opportunity, and I
have an opportunity to offer up something different.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
We're taking a quick break. Stay with us.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know one other thing I wanted to mention because
this struck me when I was looking at the accomplishments
in the record you've already acquired, and that is, you know,
lots of governors, In fact, I'd say probably most governors
don't grant pardons until the ends of their term.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
But you've made headlines for granting more pardons than your
recent predecessors, and you've said justice can't weight. How do
you make those decisions, and why are you doing it?
And what do you hope the results will be?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Well, this is.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
One of the most important powers that you have as governor,
the power of clemency. And my backstory is that I
was a business lawyer for many years, a big law firm,
and then I sort of did a one to eighty
left to become chief of the Civil Rights Division in
the Massachusetts Attorney General's office. I bring a civil rights
lens to the work that I do, and as somebody
(16:30):
who's been both a civil rights lawyer and a prosecutor,
I have seen up close the real disparities and failures
in a criminal justice system, and also seeing so many
of the things that lead people unfortunately into the criminal
justice system. We talk a lot about the social determinants
of health, there are the social determinants of justice, right,
(16:52):
And you know, being presented with the profiles of these
individuals who are considered for pardons is very clear to me.
You know, people should not be held back in many instances,
serve their time. They've done everything that they were supposed
to do, and they did the work, and all they
want now that they're out is a fair shot at
a job, right that's going to provide for.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Them or their families.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And isn't that what we're supposed to insent in our
criminal justice system. You know, it's about accountability, it's about reform,
it's about rehabilitation, and that too often gets lost in
tough talk and the conversation around criminal justice and its purpose.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Well, I'm thrilled that you're taking that on as well,
because it's really important you know we're about to have
a big election again in twenty twenty four, and I've
bet a lot of young people ask you what it's
like being in politics, and you know, whether you'd recommend
that they maybe think about going into politics or going
into government, what advice do you give them?
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Go for it?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Now?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You and I know, I mean running isn't for everyone, right,
and there are some of us who would probably prefer
to be behind the scenes, and there are so many
ways to be involved in politics without having to be
the actual candidate.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
But I can tell.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
You now more than ever, we need young people to serve.
It's why I've set up a Youth Advisory Council, It's
why I incorporate young people into all the work that
we do across my office, because they are the energy.
They bring a focus, they bring a drive, and frankly,
who has a more vested interest in what's going to happen,
(18:32):
in what our laws and policies are going to be
than are young people. We need them really engaged. We
need them voting, We need them not to be turned off.
We need them to see that their government is here
for them, right here for them. I'm looking up, I'm
in my office here. One of the things that every
governor in Massachusetts gets to do when they're elected is
(18:55):
by tradition, they're supposed to hang a portrait of a
former governor, and that is to hang in their office
to provide inspiration. Well, I did something a little different.
I opened it up and I asked school children across
Massachusetts to submit essays with recommendations for whose portrait I
should hang. I received one essay and I read it
(19:17):
and I just knew this is it. It was from
a group of high school students and they said, you
should hang just a frame. You should look forward for inspiration,
not backwards. Every time you walk into your office governor
in the morning, you should look up at that empty
frame and think about those who are voiceless, those who
(19:39):
aren't walking the halls of power, and make sure you
bring it every day for them.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
And I just thought the combination and what that message
evoked for me. It was like so clear.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So when you come you'll see in my office there's
an empty gold frame, but it does to me represent
what our young people are all about. And you know
what's cool. You've had the kids in right, I mean,
the kids come in their school field trips, and you know,
they come into your office and they ask you questions
and then they take pictures. Now, they take pictures and
(20:10):
they superimpose their pictures inside that empty frame and they
send me the text and it's like, cool, That's exactly
what I want them to see. I want them to
see themselves in government, and I want to see that
they can be anything they want to be.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Oh, you're giving me goosebumps tomorrow. I love that. Okay.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
What keeps you up at night, you know, just wondering
if you've done enough, you know, because I think about
the kids who are going to bed hungry. I think
about the families who are you know, making calls to
police because one of their loved ones is in the
throes of an overdose.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I think about those moments and what am I doing
or not doing as governor. That's what keeps me up
at night, you know, apart from from thinking about just
the vulnerability of seven million people for whom I have
some measure of responsibility. Apart from that, the thing that
I worry about most is democracy. You know, what we
(21:10):
saw in twenty sixteen, what we saw in twenty twenty,
none of that's gone away, and we have to be
vigilant and fight back, fight back at these efforts to
undermine and erode democracy and fundamental tenants principles that build
this country. We need leaders, and you know, I will
work with anyone in any party if they're about some
(21:31):
fundamental principles and truths, and one of them has to be.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
We believe in democracy.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
We're going to protect the freedom to vote, and we're
going to fight for and ensure accountability at every level.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
That's what keeps me up at late yep.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Well, I join you in that insomnia, my friend. But
at the end of the day, you've got such a
tough job. What do you do to recharge, to rest,
to relax, to you know, find some time to you know,
just take a deep exhale.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Well, you do need to do that.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I'm grateful when I get to come home at
night to my partner and you know, her kids and
the dog and take a walk. I love to get
to the beach or any anywhere near water or the woods.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I find walking in those places really calming and restorative.
The other thing I do is I clean.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I don't know about you. I feel like if whatever
has happened to me in the course of the day.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's probably like you know why I like laundry right,
like I did it. It's done same with cleaning. Two
nights ago, I was cleaning out the freezer, right. I
think it's this where there is so much chaos and
disorder and things coming at you. It's like, what can
I find at the end of the day that will
give me some semblance of like okay, peace? So sometimes
(22:54):
it's the freezer.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh do I relate to that? Do you totally?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I mean, just get me a drawer to clean out,
a closet to declutter.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I'm a happy person.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
But I'm especially happy that I got to talk with you,
my friend, and I can't wait to come up and
get my picture taken in front of the empty frame.
I'm not going to shoot hoops with you, and I
played half court basketball. That was what we did in
my day. But maybe I'll help you clean out your basement.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Well.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
I welcome any and all of that. It is so
great to be with you. Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Thank you, my dear.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Keep an eye on Maura Heally, and keep an eye
on Massachusetts. My next guest is someone I've had an
eye on for quite a while now.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Full disclosure.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
We first met about twenty years ago when he and
Chelsea became friends at Oxford University, where he was serving
as a Rhodes scholar. Later, he caught my attention for
his excellent work as CEO of the Robin Hood Foundation,
a not for profit organization dedicated to fighting poverty in
(24:07):
New York City. Wes Moore is an Army veteran and
a dad to two children. He's done so much in
his life, but one thing he'd never done before recently
was actually run for elected office.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
But that's just what he did.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
In twenty twenty two. He ran and he won, making
him the first black governor of Maryland and only the
third elected black governor of any state. Since taking office
in January, Wes's administration has been busy passing bills to
alleviate child poverty and creating a ground breaking public service
(24:47):
program for high school graduates, among many other things. I
am so delighted to welcome him to the podcast. Hello,
Governor Wes Moore, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh are you in your office in Annapolis?
Speaker 5 (25:03):
I'm in the office in Annapolis and it's still a
bit surreal, uh, you know, being here and you know,
knowing that this is my everyday office and I live
across the street. Now, I mean it is Uh, it's
quite fascinating.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
How's your family getting settled in? How's everybody doing?
Speaker 5 (25:18):
You know, they're they're doing great. The kids have really
done well. And you know, and I tell you, I
think a lot of it was a lot of counsel
we got from friends. I had to be very honest
with the council that we got from Chelsea, you know,
and I was asking her about, you know, like how
should I be thinking about this, and some great advices
she gave was just keep their schedule and their lives
(25:38):
as consistent and normal as it was before, because the
number one goal is that you want them to be
as unaffected as possible in all this. And uh, and
so what we've been we've been very fortunate that we've
been able to do it so far.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I am lucky enough to have known you because you
and Chelsea have been friends for a number of years,
and she, I think has a pretty clear idea of
what will work and what doesn't work. I was especially touched,
Wes that you were sworn in using two Bibles, one
of which belonged to one of our great Americans, the abolitionists,
(26:14):
the newspaper publisher and so much else, Frederick Douglas. What
was that moment like that you put your hand on
that Bible, knowing that Frederick Douglas had been there before.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
It was? It was breathtaking because I said it to
the team almost as a wouldn't it be cool? Thing?
And my team heard me and actually then reached out
to the National Archives, which is where that Bible is.
And you know, once they said that we're going to have,
you know, only the third African American ever inaugurated as
(26:48):
governor in this country, they contacted the Douglas family and
they gave permission for the Bible to be released for
that day. And it was amazing because they literally had,
you know, an armed escort that took the Bible to Annapolis.
It was inside of a case and even when dawn,
when my wife is holding a Bible, she had to
(27:09):
hold the case. They were very clear in their instructions
the case would open up and the only hand that
could touch the Bible was mine. Interesting, I then said
the oath with my hand on the Bible as soon
as I completed the oath, they closed the case and
they brought it back to the archives. It was onspiring,
and it was also just a really important reminder of
(27:32):
this journey. I mean, I'm a student of Frederick Douglass,
and you know, I'm proud of the fact that he's
a Marylander, but I'm also horrified by so much of
his treatment that happened by Marylanders, and so much of
the life that he lived, so many the changes that
he fought for the impact that he made. It was
(27:52):
trying to unearth a system that was very much entrenched
in this state that we call home. And so I'm
not just really humble by it. And there's actually a
picture that I have of Frederick Douglass that sits in
my office, and I I strategically positioned it where it
almost looks like he's looking at the desk, so every
time I make a decision, I can look up and
(28:13):
look at him like he's looking at and he's saying,
you know, make the right choice here, man, because because
you know, you're standing on some pretty broad shoulders right now.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well that's pretty dauntic.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Got I heard that, Frederick Douglass and looking over your shoulder,
But I do want to congratulate you on the recent
passage of the Family Prosperity Act. I love the title,
which makes the child tax credit permanent in Maryland. Now,
you have written a lot and spoken a lot about
(28:45):
the differences that a child's circumstances make on their future,
and you yourself had some challenges as a child after
your father passed away. How did your upbringing shape your
thinking on this program and lead you to make the
decision to try to ease some of the financial burden
(29:06):
on families.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
When I thought about my why as to why I
wanted to run for governor, why I wanted to go
this path, the issue of child poverty is at the
very top of that list.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You know.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
I ran one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in
the country before I decided to run for governor, and
I realized quickly into that job that if we are
not actually fixing some of these systems that continue to
allow people to fall into poverty and make it so
complicated for people to be able to come out of them,
then we will just find ourselves cleaning up the debris
(29:40):
that comes from broken systems. And so, you know, I
was clear when we came on board from both my
inaugural address to my first State of the State, where
I said, this was the time that Maryland was going
to make the most aggressive and full frontal assault on
child poverty and bipartisan assault on child poverty that this
state has ever seen. And we're out of the fact
(30:00):
that in our first months we were able to do that.
And that included things like the Family Prosperity Act, which
was able to make the child tax Credit permanent, be
able to raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars in
our state, because gone should be the days when we
have people who are working jobs, in some cases multiple jobs,
and still living at or below a poverty line, and
creating real pathways for children to be able to have
(30:23):
a different type of conclusion than their origin might might
have inspired. And the thing that we're able to see is,
you know, not just that that bill alone was able
to lift over one hundred and fifty six thousand children
up a rung on the economic ladder in the stroke
of a pen. But the argument was this helps the
economy because since we passed this bill, Maryland now has
(30:45):
the lowest unemployment rate in the entire country. You know,
so supporting our children and supporting the most vulnerable and
having a growing economy is not a choice. These two
things actually happen simultaneously. And the thing we're really proud
of as well is we're able to not just get
these bills past or we're able to get passed bipartisan,
which I'm really proud of.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, you should be.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Well, it is so clear that what you're doing is
an economic boost, and you're already beginning to see results.
But take me back, just for our listeners, give us
a short overview of your own life and how you
know what happened to you your family. Your challenge is
really connected to not just an intellectual understanding of looking
(31:28):
at the data and figuring out what will work, but
really visceral, emotional you know.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
I always say I'm probably the most improbable governor in
the country because there was nothing about either life trajectory
or professional background that kind of made this make sense.
And I say it improbable because I'm the son of
an immigrant single mother. She immigrated to this country from
Jamaica when she was young, and when I was only
(31:54):
three years old, my father died in front of me
because he didn't get the healthcare that he needed or
that he deserved. And so then my mother became a
single mother who was going to then raise three children
on her own. And she didn't get her first job
that gave her benefits until I was fourteen, you know,
her first job that gave her reliable hours, her first
job that allowed her to work one job instead of
(32:15):
multiple jobs. You know, this is not an academic exercise
when we're talking about inequitable pay between men and women.
You know, I don't need a white paper to explain
inequitable pay between people of color and non like I've
seen this. I grew up in this, and you know,
I got into quite a bit of challenge and trouble
where you know, I had handcuffs on my wrist by
the time I was eleven, I was sent to a
(32:35):
military school for some behavior issues by the time I
was thirteen. I joined the Army at seventeen, coming right
out of high school. You know, so I went through
a lot of pathways that were non traditional, and so
I knew from an early age that I wanted to
focus on public service because I wanted to fight for
people like my mom.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yes, and you know, you've had a varied career before
you made the decison to run for governor. You know,
in addition to being the first black Rhodes scholar at
Johns Hopkins University and working in investment banking, and as
you said, being the CEO of a very well regarded
anti poverty nonprofit, you served on active duty in Afghanistan.
(33:19):
How did you find that experience influencing your decision to
run for governor.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
You know, I think about, you know, when people said, well,
you know, how did those things prepare you? It's funny
amount of secretary. I didn't realize they were when I
was doing them.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yes, you were living your life.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
You living your life right. And there was no point
when I'm you know, leading paratroopers in Afghanistan and thinking
to myself, this is gonna be really good one day
when I run for governor. But the thing was amazing
was it is actually true. They were all preparing you,
whether you realized it or not. Right, And I think
about the work of the military, and one of the
things that I've really taken from my time there was
(34:03):
how nonpartisan service really is. And part of the reason
that I've said that I want Maryland to be the
state that serves because service will save us that in
this time of this political divisiveness and vitriol, that it's
it's it's service that's going to bring us together, because
that's the best way for people to get to know
(34:24):
each other, right, It's the best way for people to
get out of their comfort zones. And you know, I
have people who I serve with in Afghanistan who came
and campaigned for me. Many of them were not Marylanders,
and many of them were not Democrats.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Right I can imagine, but.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
They literally came to my state and were door knocking
on my behalf and just simply saying, let me tell
you about the guy that I served with. And so
I really took from that experience of leading and serving
with the best and some of the most amazing people
that I, you know, will ever have the opportunity to
(34:59):
be a around, that there was a there's a common
bond that we all now have that is unbreakable. That
there is no political conversation, that there is no financial
that there is no family lineage that breaks that apart.
That bond is unbreakable. And it's the reason that I'm
so encouraged by the idea of asking people to serve
(35:22):
because service will save us.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Well, I love that, and I'm going to underscore what
you said about, you know, being in the military and
seeing it as nonpartisan, may it ever be. So I
want to pick up on this emphasis on service because
I think you have really zeroed in on something that
is even more important today than it was when my
husband created you know, the National Service Corporation, and service
(35:49):
has always been something that I certainly believe in, but
we now have what our Surgeon General of the United
States has called an epidemic of loneliness in this country.
People are isolated and it doesn't just affect them personally,
but it has increased polarization that actually threatens our democracy.
(36:10):
So I was really excited to hear about the one
year civil service program that you announced for graduating high
school seniors, you know, because it's not only that there
is so much we could be doing if we focused
on service, but it does make people feel like they belong,
It creates community. How is that actually going to work?
(36:30):
Wes in practice for young people.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
Well, we're really excited about this, and you know, Maryland
is now the first state in the country that has
a service year option for our high school graduates, and
so when a person graduates from high school, there are
many different things they can do. But now in the
state of Maryland, we have another option. You can serve
your state and you can choose however you want to
do it. You know, we're very clear that you know
(36:55):
with the service year option, you can choose to serve
in the environment, you can choose to serve returning citizens,
you can choose to serve veterans, you can choose to
serve older adults, young people. It is completely your choice.
But the thing that is going to provide is I'm
a big believer in experiential learning and giving young people
a pathway to find out what makes your heart be
(37:16):
a little bit faster and then go after it. And
the way it's basically going to work is for people
that sign up, they're going to have a chance to
choose which error they want to go into. We will
then help them to find the right partner. And we
have been so fortunate that we are three times subscribed
with young people signing up. We have hundreds of employers
(37:37):
and that includes nonprofit organizations, social enterprises, and businesses, government
agencies who are saying we'll take people because we think
this is a strong pipeline developer. And then not only
will the person who's doing the year receive a living
wage while they're doing it, they'll also receive things like
financial education and financial literacy, open up bank accounts, and
(37:59):
also at the end of it, they'll receive a six
thousand dollars stipend and they can use that towards their
higher education, they can use that towards a down payment
on the house, they can use it on whenever they
want to. But it's important that they know that they
are going to have a long term benefit from this,
that we can democratize it by making sure that there's
(38:19):
financial supports for it, and that you're going to get
more than just that experience. You're going to have a
chance to really build a cohort and a connection. And
part of the reason that I'm so excited and I
know we can do it is is, as as you mentioned,
Manim Secretary, it's been done before. We are standing on
the shoulders of a Mara corps. The fact that we're
now the first state to say a state can do this,
(38:40):
we think and we feel very comfortable and confident to
say that while Maryland is going to be the first
state in the country to do this. We will not
be the last. We think the service movement is now.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Amen. I love that. We'll be right back. You know,
for our.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Listeners, you've been governor now for almost a year, actually
about three quarters of a year. Looking back, what's been
the hardest choice you've had to make thus far?
Speaker 5 (39:21):
You know, I tell you an interesting example where, you know,
when we were pushing for the for the Fair Wage Act,
which is lifting the minimum wage to fifteen dollars, there
was a component to it that I thought was a
really important component to it, and that was indexing. And basically,
you know, for the listeners, amoight of indexing. Basically, this
means that you can have that minimum wage that's then
(39:42):
pegged to how inflation works. Because if you're raising a
minimum wage but inflation keeps rising at a faster clip,
that a it means less purchase power for the person
who's benefiting from it, but b it lacks predictability for businesses,
and so businesses have a really tough time being able
to adjust or adapt when there is not inde And
I knew that was going to be a real fight
(40:02):
to be able to get that through our chamber, and
I remember having a conversation with one of the chairs
of one of the committees. I won't say her name
in case she doesn't want me to share private conversations,
but she told me, she said, listen on the policy.
You're absolutely right, and I agree with you. She said,
I just don't know if you're gonna get the votes.
But the fact that you can get folks to even
get to a fifteen dollars minimum wage, and knowing that
(40:25):
you know what, you'll get up tomorrow and you'll keep
fighting the fight to get to the next level. Now
I know you want more. I know you do. And
she said, but don't confuse quitting with quitting while you're ahead.
And that was a really important lesson. I think when
we think about the policy making, thing is you're not.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Going to get everything absolutely.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
She gave you really good advice, because you know, sometimes
we do make it really difficult to both make incremental
progress and then claim credit for it because it doesn't
meet our highest aspirations. And that's a problem in politics
because in a democracy, you know, now having been governor
and been involved in these legislative battles, you have to
(41:09):
find common ground and then you know, you take your
stand on it, you build a little higher, and you
keep going. And it is important to convey that to
people who get discouraged by the state of politics. And
we need more people to step up and dare to
compete by running, whether it's for school board, congress, governor
(41:30):
whatever it might be. What do you tell people when
they say to you, gee, you know, I've kind of
thought about running, but it's so messy, it's so mean.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I don't know if I want to do that. How
do you respond?
Speaker 5 (41:44):
I tell people, tell me what you want to do
before you tell me what you want to run for.
What's the issue? Yeah, and I think about it. Where
for me, I'm clear. I mean child poverty is my issue, yes,
I just I don't understand why we continue to do
(42:04):
this to children before they even have a say right.
And I remember having a when I was running Robinhood.
We were working for six months to get a former
governor to actually to introduce the child tax credit into
their budget and showing why this made the most sense
and literally gave them all the data behind it, told
him he should include in the state of the state.
(42:25):
And I got an advanced copy of the State of
the State, and there was nothing in there about the
child tax credit and nothing in there about child poverty
as a whole. And so I'm a little bit frustrated.
I call up my head of public policy and I
go on this rant, and I think finally when I
took a breath, he said to me, you know, we've
worked for six months to try to get them to
include a line in the speech. Well, what if you
(42:47):
could write the whole speech? And that was the point, Yeah,
what if you could write the whole speech. And so
that's why our first State of the State it was
all about child poverty, because I knew that that was
the place that we could have a unique impact on
addressing this issue that is so barbaric, and then we
actually have a chance to fix. And so the thing
(43:09):
that I would tell people, whether you want to run
for you know, school board or PTA or congress or
mayor or whatever role you want to run for, what
is your issue, Build the credibility on that issue, build
your coalition with that issue, and then think about, okay, now,
what is the right seat to be able to impact
(43:30):
the kind of change that I would make. Because the
work and trying to get into these offices. It is
too hard, Yes, it is too challenging and damaging. If
you don't have your why, and if you aren't able
to hold onto that every single day, this thing can
break you. So you got to know your why and
(43:51):
then you'll have which you need to go after it
and you get up every morning, if you suit up
and you get back on the field, that's right.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, I literally could talk to you, my friends, because
you know, I feel like the mission that you have
set for yourself in your state is really the most
American of all missions. I mean, give people the chance
to make the most out of their own God given potential.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Governor Wes Moore, thank you, Thank you for talking to me,
Thank you for demonstrating just extraordinary leadership and as we say,
just keep going.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Thank you for all you do for all of us
and the example that you set in for the friendship.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I wish we had time to bring on all the
great governors and mayors and city council members, you name it,
who are out there actually doing the hard work to
make our communities thrive. The serious leaders who are interested
in results, not just rhetoric. Well, I can't talk to everyone,
you will find some great conversations with folks like Michigan
(44:57):
Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Pennsylvania State Representative Malcolm Kenyata, and Boston
Mayor Michelle Wou. If you go to You and Me
Both on iHeart Podcasts and look through our archive, You
and Me Both is brought to you by iHeart Podcasts.
(45:19):
We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo,
with help from Khuma Abadeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsey Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz,
Laura Olin, Lona Valmoorro and the Lily Weber. Our engineer
is Zach McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray.
(45:42):
If you like You and Me Both, tell someone else
about it. And if you're not already a subscriber, what
are you waiting for? You can subscribe to You and
Me Both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening and I'll see
you next week.
I'm Hillary Clinton, and this is you and me both.
You know, with our federal government so often paralyzed these
days by infighting between the extreme and the more extreme
wings of the Republican Party, more than ever, it's up
to our state and local leaders to get things done,
and that puts a lot of responsibility in the hands
(00:23):
of our governors.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Some use that power in cruel and.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Destructive ways, by implementing abortion bands, taking away voting rights,
or treating migrants not as human beings but as political pawns.
But meanwhile, others are using that power for good. Today,
I'm talking to two recently minted governors who are doing
everything they can to improve the lives and future prospects
(00:52):
of the citizens whom they serve. Both of my guests
have broken through all kinds of barriers to get to
where they are today. Later we'll be hearing from Governor
Wes Moore of Maryland, But first I want to introduce
you to Maura Healy, Governor of Massachusetts. Before taking office
(01:14):
as the first woman and first openly gay governor of Massachusetts,
Maura had already accomplished a lot. She'd played professional basketball,
Despite it has to be said, her kind of small stature.
She'd served as the chief of the Civil Rights Division
of the Attorney General's Office in Massachusetts and then been
(01:36):
elected as the first openly gay attorney general. Now, Maura
is an unabashed progressive, but first and foremost, she is
dedicated to getting things done, bringing the people of Massachusetts
together to deal with everything from the climate crisis to
the opioid epidemic, to housing shortages, poverty, to civil and
(02:01):
human rights. She's off to a great start, and I'm
thrilled to welcome her to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
There she is the governor.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Good morning, time I see you, and every time I
get to say that, I get a big thrill.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Secondary It is always so great to see Thanks for
having me on.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I want to start with your athletic career because one
of the things that is very clearly connected among many
women in public life is that they did have some
kind of sports background. And I want to know how
you decided to compete in basketball, because you know, our
(02:43):
listeners can't see you.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I mean, you're a mighty person, but you're not six
feet tall.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Well that that is true.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
I am five four and probably shrinking every day, so
obviously I was a point guard when it came to basketball,
But for me as a young kid, it's sort of
found me. I was athletic, and I loved playing sports,
and probably about the time I was ten years old,
really serious about basketball. I kept playing other sports, soccer
and tennis, but basketball I really loved and it.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
Also provided a real release to me.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
When I was about ten, that's when my parents split up,
and I think as the oldest of five, I sort
of threw myself into school, threw myself into athletics right
and it provided a really healthy outlet for me. You know.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I grew up in a little.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Town in New Hampshire, as you know, and so going
to Roanoak, Virginia, or down to Oxford, Mississippi to play
in junior Olympic tournaments when you're thirteen, fourteen, fifteen years
old also opened up my eyes and my worldview. That
continued through college, where I had the chance to captain
the team at Harvard, and then I played professionally overseas
(03:55):
for a couple of years in Europe because at the
time there were no women's pro leagues here in the States.
So that's what you did. I carry the experiences of
athletics with me every day. And I think this gets
to your comment about women in leadership. You learn a
lot about how to build confidence self esteem. Literally, when
(04:15):
you're out there on a court at the foul line
shooting a one on one, people are watching, so you
sort of get used to having to perform. Sometimes you
fail and you don't make the shot, and you learn
to get up and go forward and move on. I
think also you learn a lot about discipline. And when
I ran as a very unlikely politician, I treated every
(04:40):
day of the campaign just like a season. Every day
was practice, get up, get after it. You don't just
show up and play in the files, right, So you
learn a lot about discipline. You learn a lot about
hard work, really, and I think something women are particularly
good at teamwork.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Right. I think that's a terrific explanation.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
And as someone who has you know, been on the
front lines of athletics, and then through your service and
the Attorney General's office, then becoming Attorney General yourself, and
now governor, you've been able to see how getting that
sense of commitment every day makes a difference. Because if
(05:20):
you get knocked down, which we all do, you got
to get back up.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Yeah, you do. And you know, along the way it's
important to have fun.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
So you know, I do continue to get out and
play basketball with kids and youth programs and do that
while you know, doing work that can be really grueling.
And you know, I think that's just part of what
it means to be in government, particularly these days.
Speaker 4 (05:43):
But you know, I have to say I do this job.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And people can evaluate how well or how poorly I
do it. I do it with a view that I'm
here for as long as I'm here, I want to
make the most of every day.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
It's why I probably operate with a heightened level of urgent.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
See that is probably too much sometimes for people to
take around me as we're trying to you know, execute
and move on a lot of fronts. But you know,
I don't really pay attention to the critics. You sort
of follow you and you do what you think is
right and just keep moving forward. And you know, part
of the discipline I guess of athletics is you literally
(06:20):
learn to block out the crowd.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
Yeah, right, you have to. You're at the foul line.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You have to block out the booze and the jeers
and all that and just focus on the shot.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Well, boy, does that resonate with me, because yeah, you
and I have both been the.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Subject of more than a few jeers and razzing during
our political careers. Well, I want to talk about the
state that you are now privileged to be governor of,
because you know, people think of Massachusetts as, you know,
this blue state that is so liberal. And you know,
I've spent enough time in Massachusetts, went to college in Massachusetts,
(06:59):
campaign for my self and others, and I love your state.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
But it's a tough political environment.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I mean it is lots of sharp elbows, lots of
you know, really tough battles. And you actually flipped that
governor's seat from your predecessor, who was a Republican. So
tell us a little bit about the politics and the
political landscape of Massachusetts that people outside might not understand.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Well, let me just say I think Massachusetts it's the
greatest state in the country, right, I just you know,
aren't you.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Running billboards and places like Florida?
Speaker 4 (07:36):
I am, and my message has come here.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
You know what, We'll make sure you have access to healthcare,
We'll protect voting rights and civil rights.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
We stand up for LGBTQ.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Plus you know, members of our community we make sure
that women have access to the reproductive health care that
they need, and we really value and invest in education
and workforce. So you know, that's my stump on Massachusetts politically.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
You're absolutely right. It's a state.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Where you know, for many, many years, the majority of
governors have been Republican see Mitt Romney, Bill Weld, Charlie Baker.
So yes, I happen to be the first woman ever
elected governor, first gaye person elected governor in our state.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And you know, I ran.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
As a proud Democrat with a progressive record, and now
have the opportunity to serve and to serve a state
that really is in many ways a microcosm of this country.
We have very blue areas, particularly in our cities, we
have red areas, and we have purple areas. It really
(08:37):
is truly a microcosm. And I think that's something that
sometimes is missed in how Massachusetts is talked about or perceived.
It's why, you know, nothing's a layup nothing.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
You take nothing for granted.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
If you're running a race and campaigning here, if you're
looking to push forward your agenda, you have to get
out and earn every vote and earn every opportunity for
support for your agenda. You know, my job as governor
is to make sure that everybody, no matter what their
zip code is, right in Massachusetts, has a shot, has opportunity. Right,
(09:12):
We're really really focused on an economic growth agenda here.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, And do you think that was the political message
that most resonated with voters as you were campaigning?
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Well, I think we ran a really positive campaign, positive
in the sense of like, let's go, you know, let's
get it done, Let's make the investments in our people.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
You know, coming out of COVID.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Where I think there was a lot of I wouldn't
say malaise, but depression, just people down, a lot of dislocation,
tremendous disruption, people needing to sort of see a sense
of purpose, opportunity like this is where we're going, this
is what we can make happen. And I think that
really resonated with people. And I definitely was offering up
(09:54):
an agenda of making life in Massachusetts more affordable by
cutting tac by increasing housing because we've got a challenge
with housing costs here, making life more equitable and fair,
more opportunity for more people, and making our state more competitive,
which is why I'm leaning in on a package of
(10:15):
tax cuts and some other measures to make Massachusetts attractive
not only to residents, I also want employers coming to Massachusetts,
where you know, I think there is this incredible amount
of human talent, intellectual talent, innovation, entrepreneurship.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
My job as governor is to help support and seed that.
Speaker 5 (10:35):
Right.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Well, that's a great campaign outline because it certainly caught
the imagination of your voters, and you won overwhelmingly. But
as you know, the late great Mario Cuomo once famously said,
you campaign and poetry and your government prose. And so
now you've been governor and you've had to translate those
(10:56):
really important aspirations into policies.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So give us a quick update where you.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Are, as you're now into that hard but essential task
of governing your state.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
It is, It is hard, and some days you're making
more progress than other days. But I have to say,
eight months in, I am really pleased with what we've accomplished.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
We've been able to.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Do universal free school meals for students across Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
That's a big deal to me.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Too many dealing with food and security, Now they don't
have to worry about that. We got that done. We
made community college free for everyone twenty five years and older.
It turned out we had seven hundred thousand people in
Massachusetts who had some credits towards a degree, but then
life got in the way and they could no longer
afford it. Now we're bringing them in back off the
(11:48):
sidelines free community college, which is absolutely essential to our workforce.
I appointed the country's first climate chief. She sits atop
all my secretariats and drives a climate agenda on transportation,
on healthcare, on workforce and labor, you name it, it's
happening there. I just went out another accomplishment. I just
(12:09):
went out with the largest bid for offshore wind great
and I'm really excited about what that's going to mean
for our move from fossil fuels to renewables. It's also
a huge economic engine and driver, and Biden Harris administration
came through with some funding to support us because they
see what we're trying to do in a space where
(12:30):
we're going to address climate, we're going to grow great
paying jobs and healthier communities. So that's just a little
snapshot of a day in a life. We've got an
issue that is not unfamiliar to you where we have
migrants coming to Massachusetts. I have been leaning hard on
the Biden administration. These folks need to work, they want
(12:50):
to work, and we have a workforce challenge when it
comes to so many industries out there. These are folks
who could be working tomorrow in construction and hospitality at
our hospitals and nursing homes, and so you know, my
goal is to get expedited work permits and authorizations for them.
But those are just some of the things that we're
working on.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
There is so much work. And for somebody like you
who loves to roll your sleeves.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Up and get into that nitty gritty, you are blessed
to be governor at a time when there are federal resources.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
But there are also federal problems. And you mentioned one,
which is immigration and the failure to move more quickly
to enable people to work who want to work. And
early on you mentioned reproductive health, and you and I
are both reading how some states are trying to literally
criminalize leaving your state to get the reproductive health care
(13:43):
that you need and deserve. But I think on immigration,
on reproductive health, you're going to be you know, having
to join forces with other like minded governors, because this
is a battle that unfortunately is not easily solved, because
the other party wants a problem with immigration, not a solution,
(14:04):
and the other party is driven by the most extreme
views about abortion.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
I think that governors really sit at this point where
you know, we can act for good or we can
act for ill. And I think you've seen that play
out across the country where frankly, you've seen governors take
actions that are about stripping voting rights, stripping civil rights,
demonizing and dehumanizing members of the LGBTQ plus community, going
(14:30):
after and attacking migrants and those who are simply coming
to this country looking for a better way of life
and wanting to contribute. Those who will deny, you know, science,
and deny what's happening with our climate, even though storms
and floods and hurricanes. I had nine tornadoes, Hillary, I
had nine tornadoes in Massachusetts this summer.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I talked to my friend Governor Kelly and Kansas. I said,
what am I supposed to do with the tornado? She's like, what,
just you get under a desk? I mean, we never
had to talk about these things before. So it's just
to say there are these forces out there, right, governors
who are out there just furthering, perpetuating misinformation, disinformation, harming
their own people, right exactly, I guess further into some
(15:18):
perceived political gain. And we have an opportunity, and I
have an opportunity to offer up something different.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
We're taking a quick break. Stay with us.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know one other thing I wanted to mention because
this struck me when I was looking at the accomplishments
in the record you've already acquired, and that is, you know,
lots of governors, In fact, I'd say probably most governors
don't grant pardons until the ends of their term.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
But you've made headlines for granting more pardons than your
recent predecessors, and you've said justice can't weight. How do
you make those decisions, and why are you doing it?
And what do you hope the results will be?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Well, this is.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
One of the most important powers that you have as governor,
the power of clemency. And my backstory is that I
was a business lawyer for many years, a big law firm,
and then I sort of did a one to eighty
left to become chief of the Civil Rights Division in
the Massachusetts Attorney General's office. I bring a civil rights
lens to the work that I do, and as somebody
(16:30):
who's been both a civil rights lawyer and a prosecutor,
I have seen up close the real disparities and failures
in a criminal justice system, and also seeing so many
of the things that lead people unfortunately into the criminal
justice system. We talk a lot about the social determinants
of health, there are the social determinants of justice, right,
(16:52):
And you know, being presented with the profiles of these
individuals who are considered for pardons is very clear to me.
You know, people should not be held back in many instances,
serve their time. They've done everything that they were supposed
to do, and they did the work, and all they
want now that they're out is a fair shot at
a job, right that's going to provide for.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Them or their families.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And isn't that what we're supposed to insent in our
criminal justice system. You know, it's about accountability, it's about reform,
it's about rehabilitation, and that too often gets lost in
tough talk and the conversation around criminal justice and its purpose.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Well, I'm thrilled that you're taking that on as well,
because it's really important you know we're about to have
a big election again in twenty twenty four, and I've
bet a lot of young people ask you what it's
like being in politics, and you know, whether you'd recommend
that they maybe think about going into politics or going
into government, what advice do you give them?
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Go for it?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Now?
Speaker 3 (17:54):
You and I know, I mean running isn't for everyone, right,
and there are some of us who would probably prefer
to be behind the scenes, and there are so many
ways to be involved in politics without having to be
the actual candidate.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
But I can tell.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
You now more than ever, we need young people to serve.
It's why I've set up a Youth Advisory Council, It's
why I incorporate young people into all the work that
we do across my office, because they are the energy.
They bring a focus, they bring a drive, and frankly,
who has a more vested interest in what's going to happen,
(18:32):
in what our laws and policies are going to be
than are young people. We need them really engaged. We
need them voting, We need them not to be turned off.
We need them to see that their government is here
for them, right here for them. I'm looking up, I'm
in my office here. One of the things that every
governor in Massachusetts gets to do when they're elected is
(18:55):
by tradition, they're supposed to hang a portrait of a
former governor, and that is to hang in their office
to provide inspiration. Well, I did something a little different.
I opened it up and I asked school children across
Massachusetts to submit essays with recommendations for whose portrait I
should hang. I received one essay and I read it
(19:17):
and I just knew this is it. It was from
a group of high school students and they said, you
should hang just a frame. You should look forward for inspiration,
not backwards. Every time you walk into your office governor
in the morning, you should look up at that empty
frame and think about those who are voiceless, those who
(19:39):
aren't walking the halls of power, and make sure you
bring it every day for them.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
And I just thought the combination and what that message
evoked for me. It was like so clear.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
So when you come you'll see in my office there's
an empty gold frame, but it does to me represent
what our young people are all about. And you know
what's cool. You've had the kids in right, I mean,
the kids come in their school field trips, and you know,
they come into your office and they ask you questions
and then they take pictures. Now, they take pictures and
(20:10):
they superimpose their pictures inside that empty frame and they
send me the text and it's like, cool, That's exactly
what I want them to see. I want them to
see themselves in government, and I want to see that
they can be anything they want to be.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Oh, you're giving me goosebumps tomorrow. I love that. Okay.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
What keeps you up at night, you know, just wondering
if you've done enough, you know, because I think about
the kids who are going to bed hungry. I think
about the families who are you know, making calls to
police because one of their loved ones is in the
throes of an overdose.
Speaker 5 (20:48):
You know.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
I think about those moments and what am I doing
or not doing as governor. That's what keeps me up
at night, you know, apart from from thinking about just
the vulnerability of seven million people for whom I have
some measure of responsibility. Apart from that, the thing that
I worry about most is democracy. You know, what we
(21:10):
saw in twenty sixteen, what we saw in twenty twenty,
none of that's gone away, and we have to be
vigilant and fight back, fight back at these efforts to
undermine and erode democracy and fundamental tenants principles that build
this country. We need leaders, and you know, I will
work with anyone in any party if they're about some
(21:31):
fundamental principles and truths, and one of them has to be.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
We believe in democracy.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
We're going to protect the freedom to vote, and we're
going to fight for and ensure accountability at every level.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
That's what keeps me up at late yep.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Well, I join you in that insomnia, my friend. But
at the end of the day, you've got such a
tough job. What do you do to recharge, to rest,
to relax, to you know, find some time to you know,
just take a deep exhale.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
Well, you do need to do that.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
And I'm grateful when I get to come home at
night to my partner and you know, her kids and
the dog and take a walk. I love to get
to the beach or any anywhere near water or the woods.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I find walking in those places really calming and restorative.
The other thing I do is I clean.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
I don't know about you. I feel like if whatever
has happened to me in the course of the day.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
It's probably like you know why I like laundry right,
like I did it. It's done same with cleaning. Two
nights ago, I was cleaning out the freezer, right. I
think it's this where there is so much chaos and
disorder and things coming at you. It's like, what can
I find at the end of the day that will
give me some semblance of like okay, peace? So sometimes
(22:54):
it's the freezer.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Oh do I relate to that? Do you totally?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
I mean, just get me a drawer to clean out,
a closet to declutter.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
And I'm a happy person.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
But I'm especially happy that I got to talk with you,
my friend, and I can't wait to come up and
get my picture taken in front of the empty frame.
I'm not going to shoot hoops with you, and I
played half court basketball. That was what we did in
my day. But maybe I'll help you clean out your basement.
Speaker 5 (23:21):
Well.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
I welcome any and all of that. It is so
great to be with you. Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Thank you, my dear.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Keep an eye on Maura Heally, and keep an eye
on Massachusetts. My next guest is someone I've had an
eye on for quite a while now.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Full disclosure.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
We first met about twenty years ago when he and
Chelsea became friends at Oxford University, where he was serving
as a Rhodes scholar. Later, he caught my attention for
his excellent work as CEO of the Robin Hood Foundation,
a not for profit organization dedicated to fighting poverty in
(24:07):
New York City. Wes Moore is an Army veteran and
a dad to two children. He's done so much in
his life, but one thing he'd never done before recently
was actually run for elected office.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
But that's just what he did.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
In twenty twenty two. He ran and he won, making
him the first black governor of Maryland and only the
third elected black governor of any state. Since taking office
in January, Wes's administration has been busy passing bills to
alleviate child poverty and creating a ground breaking public service
(24:47):
program for high school graduates, among many other things. I
am so delighted to welcome him to the podcast. Hello,
Governor Wes Moore, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh are you in your office in Annapolis?
Speaker 5 (25:03):
I'm in the office in Annapolis and it's still a
bit surreal, uh, you know, being here and you know,
knowing that this is my everyday office and I live
across the street. Now, I mean it is Uh, it's
quite fascinating.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
How's your family getting settled in? How's everybody doing?
Speaker 5 (25:18):
You know, they're they're doing great. The kids have really
done well. And you know, and I tell you, I
think a lot of it was a lot of counsel
we got from friends. I had to be very honest
with the council that we got from Chelsea, you know,
and I was asking her about, you know, like how
should I be thinking about this, and some great advices
she gave was just keep their schedule and their lives
(25:38):
as consistent and normal as it was before, because the
number one goal is that you want them to be
as unaffected as possible in all this. And uh, and
so what we've been we've been very fortunate that we've
been able to do it so far.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Well.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
I am lucky enough to have known you because you
and Chelsea have been friends for a number of years,
and she, I think has a pretty clear idea of
what will work and what doesn't work. I was especially touched,
Wes that you were sworn in using two Bibles, one
of which belonged to one of our great Americans, the abolitionists,
(26:14):
the newspaper publisher and so much else, Frederick Douglas. What
was that moment like that you put your hand on
that Bible, knowing that Frederick Douglas had been there before.
Speaker 5 (26:27):
It was? It was breathtaking because I said it to
the team almost as a wouldn't it be cool? Thing?
And my team heard me and actually then reached out
to the National Archives, which is where that Bible is.
And you know, once they said that we're going to have,
you know, only the third African American ever inaugurated as
(26:48):
governor in this country, they contacted the Douglas family and
they gave permission for the Bible to be released for
that day. And it was amazing because they literally had,
you know, an armed escort that took the Bible to Annapolis.
It was inside of a case and even when dawn,
when my wife is holding a Bible, she had to
(27:09):
hold the case. They were very clear in their instructions
the case would open up and the only hand that
could touch the Bible was mine. Interesting, I then said
the oath with my hand on the Bible as soon
as I completed the oath, they closed the case and
they brought it back to the archives. It was onspiring,
and it was also just a really important reminder of
(27:32):
this journey. I mean, I'm a student of Frederick Douglass,
and you know, I'm proud of the fact that he's
a Marylander, but I'm also horrified by so much of
his treatment that happened by Marylanders, and so much of
the life that he lived, so many the changes that
he fought for the impact that he made. It was
(27:52):
trying to unearth a system that was very much entrenched
in this state that we call home. And so I'm
not just really humble by it. And there's actually a
picture that I have of Frederick Douglass that sits in
my office, and I I strategically positioned it where it
almost looks like he's looking at the desk, so every
time I make a decision, I can look up and
(28:13):
look at him like he's looking at and he's saying,
you know, make the right choice here, man, because because
you know, you're standing on some pretty broad shoulders right now.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Well that's pretty dauntic.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Got I heard that, Frederick Douglass and looking over your shoulder,
But I do want to congratulate you on the recent
passage of the Family Prosperity Act. I love the title,
which makes the child tax credit permanent in Maryland. Now,
you have written a lot and spoken a lot about
(28:45):
the differences that a child's circumstances make on their future,
and you yourself had some challenges as a child after
your father passed away. How did your upbringing shape your
thinking on this program and lead you to make the
decision to try to ease some of the financial burden
(29:06):
on families.
Speaker 5 (29:08):
When I thought about my why as to why I
wanted to run for governor, why I wanted to go
this path, the issue of child poverty is at the
very top of that list.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You know.
Speaker 5 (29:18):
I ran one of the largest poverty fighting organizations in
the country before I decided to run for governor, and
I realized quickly into that job that if we are
not actually fixing some of these systems that continue to
allow people to fall into poverty and make it so
complicated for people to be able to come out of them,
then we will just find ourselves cleaning up the debris
(29:40):
that comes from broken systems. And so, you know, I
was clear when we came on board from both my
inaugural address to my first State of the State, where
I said, this was the time that Maryland was going
to make the most aggressive and full frontal assault on
child poverty and bipartisan assault on child poverty that this
state has ever seen. And we're out of the fact
(30:00):
that in our first months we were able to do that.
And that included things like the Family Prosperity Act, which
was able to make the child tax Credit permanent, be
able to raise the minimum wage to fifteen dollars in
our state, because gone should be the days when we
have people who are working jobs, in some cases multiple jobs,
and still living at or below a poverty line, and
creating real pathways for children to be able to have
(30:23):
a different type of conclusion than their origin might might
have inspired. And the thing that we're able to see is,
you know, not just that that bill alone was able
to lift over one hundred and fifty six thousand children
up a rung on the economic ladder in the stroke
of a pen. But the argument was this helps the
economy because since we passed this bill, Maryland now has
(30:45):
the lowest unemployment rate in the entire country. You know,
so supporting our children and supporting the most vulnerable and
having a growing economy is not a choice. These two
things actually happen simultaneously. And the thing we're really proud
of as well is we're able to not just get
these bills past or we're able to get passed bipartisan,
which I'm really proud of.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, you should be.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Well, it is so clear that what you're doing is
an economic boost, and you're already beginning to see results.
But take me back, just for our listeners, give us
a short overview of your own life and how you
know what happened to you your family. Your challenge is
really connected to not just an intellectual understanding of looking
(31:28):
at the data and figuring out what will work, but
really visceral, emotional you know.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
I always say I'm probably the most improbable governor in
the country because there was nothing about either life trajectory
or professional background that kind of made this make sense.
And I say it improbable because I'm the son of
an immigrant single mother. She immigrated to this country from
Jamaica when she was young, and when I was only
(31:54):
three years old, my father died in front of me
because he didn't get the healthcare that he needed or
that he deserved. And so then my mother became a
single mother who was going to then raise three children
on her own. And she didn't get her first job
that gave her benefits until I was fourteen, you know,
her first job that gave her reliable hours, her first
job that allowed her to work one job instead of
(32:15):
multiple jobs. You know, this is not an academic exercise
when we're talking about inequitable pay between men and women.
You know, I don't need a white paper to explain
inequitable pay between people of color and non like I've
seen this. I grew up in this, and you know,
I got into quite a bit of challenge and trouble
where you know, I had handcuffs on my wrist by
the time I was eleven, I was sent to a
(32:35):
military school for some behavior issues by the time I
was thirteen. I joined the Army at seventeen, coming right
out of high school. You know, so I went through
a lot of pathways that were non traditional, and so
I knew from an early age that I wanted to
focus on public service because I wanted to fight for
people like my mom.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Yes, and you know, you've had a varied career before
you made the decison to run for governor. You know,
in addition to being the first black Rhodes scholar at
Johns Hopkins University and working in investment banking, and as
you said, being the CEO of a very well regarded
anti poverty nonprofit, you served on active duty in Afghanistan.
(33:19):
How did you find that experience influencing your decision to
run for governor.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
You know, I think about, you know, when people said, well,
you know, how did those things prepare you? It's funny
amount of secretary. I didn't realize they were when I
was doing them.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yes, you were living your life.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
You living your life right. And there was no point
when I'm you know, leading paratroopers in Afghanistan and thinking
to myself, this is gonna be really good one day
when I run for governor. But the thing was amazing
was it is actually true. They were all preparing you,
whether you realized it or not. Right, And I think
about the work of the military, and one of the
things that I've really taken from my time there was
(34:03):
how nonpartisan service really is. And part of the reason
that I've said that I want Maryland to be the
state that serves because service will save us that in
this time of this political divisiveness and vitriol, that it's
it's it's service that's going to bring us together, because
that's the best way for people to get to know
(34:24):
each other, right, It's the best way for people to
get out of their comfort zones. And you know, I
have people who I serve with in Afghanistan who came
and campaigned for me. Many of them were not Marylanders,
and many of them were not Democrats.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Right I can imagine, but.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
They literally came to my state and were door knocking
on my behalf and just simply saying, let me tell
you about the guy that I served with. And so
I really took from that experience of leading and serving
with the best and some of the most amazing people
that I, you know, will ever have the opportunity to
(34:59):
be a around, that there was a there's a common
bond that we all now have that is unbreakable. That
there is no political conversation, that there is no financial
that there is no family lineage that breaks that apart.
That bond is unbreakable. And it's the reason that I'm
so encouraged by the idea of asking people to serve
(35:22):
because service will save us.
Speaker 1 (35:24):
Well, I love that, and I'm going to underscore what
you said about, you know, being in the military and
seeing it as nonpartisan, may it ever be. So I
want to pick up on this emphasis on service because
I think you have really zeroed in on something that
is even more important today than it was when my
husband created you know, the National Service Corporation, and service
(35:49):
has always been something that I certainly believe in, but
we now have what our Surgeon General of the United
States has called an epidemic of loneliness in this country.
People are isolated and it doesn't just affect them personally,
but it has increased polarization that actually threatens our democracy.
(36:10):
So I was really excited to hear about the one
year civil service program that you announced for graduating high
school seniors, you know, because it's not only that there
is so much we could be doing if we focused
on service, but it does make people feel like they belong,
It creates community. How is that actually going to work?
(36:30):
Wes in practice for young people.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
Well, we're really excited about this, and you know, Maryland
is now the first state in the country that has
a service year option for our high school graduates, and
so when a person graduates from high school, there are
many different things they can do. But now in the
state of Maryland, we have another option. You can serve
your state and you can choose however you want to
do it. You know, we're very clear that you know
(36:55):
with the service year option, you can choose to serve
in the environment, you can choose to serve returning citizens,
you can choose to serve veterans, you can choose to
serve older adults, young people. It is completely your choice.
But the thing that is going to provide is I'm
a big believer in experiential learning and giving young people
a pathway to find out what makes your heart be
(37:16):
a little bit faster and then go after it. And
the way it's basically going to work is for people
that sign up, they're going to have a chance to
choose which error they want to go into. We will
then help them to find the right partner. And we
have been so fortunate that we are three times subscribed
with young people signing up. We have hundreds of employers
(37:37):
and that includes nonprofit organizations, social enterprises, and businesses, government
agencies who are saying we'll take people because we think
this is a strong pipeline developer. And then not only
will the person who's doing the year receive a living
wage while they're doing it, they'll also receive things like
financial education and financial literacy, open up bank accounts, and
(37:59):
also at the end of it, they'll receive a six
thousand dollars stipend and they can use that towards their
higher education, they can use that towards a down payment
on the house, they can use it on whenever they
want to. But it's important that they know that they
are going to have a long term benefit from this,
that we can democratize it by making sure that there's
(38:19):
financial supports for it, and that you're going to get
more than just that experience. You're going to have a
chance to really build a cohort and a connection. And
part of the reason that I'm so excited and I
know we can do it is is, as as you mentioned,
Manim Secretary, it's been done before. We are standing on
the shoulders of a Mara corps. The fact that we're
now the first state to say a state can do this,
(38:40):
we think and we feel very comfortable and confident to
say that while Maryland is going to be the first
state in the country to do this. We will not
be the last. We think the service movement is now.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Amen. I love that. We'll be right back. You know,
for our.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Listeners, you've been governor now for almost a year, actually
about three quarters of a year. Looking back, what's been
the hardest choice you've had to make thus far?
Speaker 5 (39:21):
You know, I tell you an interesting example where, you know,
when we were pushing for the for the Fair Wage Act,
which is lifting the minimum wage to fifteen dollars, there
was a component to it that I thought was a
really important component to it, and that was indexing. And basically,
you know, for the listeners, amoight of indexing. Basically, this
means that you can have that minimum wage that's then
(39:42):
pegged to how inflation works. Because if you're raising a
minimum wage but inflation keeps rising at a faster clip,
that a it means less purchase power for the person
who's benefiting from it, but b it lacks predictability for businesses,
and so businesses have a really tough time being able
to adjust or adapt when there is not inde And
I knew that was going to be a real fight
(40:02):
to be able to get that through our chamber, and
I remember having a conversation with one of the chairs
of one of the committees. I won't say her name
in case she doesn't want me to share private conversations,
but she told me, she said, listen on the policy.
You're absolutely right, and I agree with you. She said,
I just don't know if you're gonna get the votes.
But the fact that you can get folks to even
get to a fifteen dollars minimum wage, and knowing that
(40:25):
you know what, you'll get up tomorrow and you'll keep
fighting the fight to get to the next level. Now
I know you want more. I know you do. And
she said, but don't confuse quitting with quitting while you're ahead.
And that was a really important lesson. I think when
we think about the policy making, thing is you're not.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Going to get everything absolutely.
Speaker 5 (40:44):
That's okay.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
She gave you really good advice, because you know, sometimes
we do make it really difficult to both make incremental
progress and then claim credit for it because it doesn't
meet our highest aspirations. And that's a problem in politics
because in a democracy, you know, now having been governor
and been involved in these legislative battles, you have to
(41:09):
find common ground and then you know, you take your
stand on it, you build a little higher, and you
keep going. And it is important to convey that to
people who get discouraged by the state of politics. And
we need more people to step up and dare to
compete by running, whether it's for school board, congress, governor
(41:30):
whatever it might be. What do you tell people when
they say to you, gee, you know, I've kind of
thought about running, but it's so messy, it's so mean.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
I don't know if I want to do that. How
do you respond?
Speaker 5 (41:44):
I tell people, tell me what you want to do
before you tell me what you want to run for.
What's the issue? Yeah, and I think about it. Where
for me, I'm clear. I mean child poverty is my issue, yes,
I just I don't understand why we continue to do
(42:04):
this to children before they even have a say right.
And I remember having a when I was running Robinhood.
We were working for six months to get a former
governor to actually to introduce the child tax credit into
their budget and showing why this made the most sense
and literally gave them all the data behind it, told
him he should include in the state of the state.
(42:25):
And I got an advanced copy of the State of
the State, and there was nothing in there about the
child tax credit and nothing in there about child poverty
as a whole. And so I'm a little bit frustrated.
I call up my head of public policy and I
go on this rant, and I think finally when I
took a breath, he said to me, you know, we've
worked for six months to try to get them to
include a line in the speech. Well, what if you
(42:47):
could write the whole speech? And that was the point, Yeah,
what if you could write the whole speech. And so
that's why our first State of the State it was
all about child poverty, because I knew that that was
the place that we could have a unique impact on
addressing this issue that is so barbaric, and then we
actually have a chance to fix. And so the thing
(43:09):
that I would tell people, whether you want to run
for you know, school board or PTA or congress or
mayor or whatever role you want to run for, what
is your issue, Build the credibility on that issue, build
your coalition with that issue, and then think about, okay, now,
what is the right seat to be able to impact
(43:30):
the kind of change that I would make. Because the
work and trying to get into these offices. It is
too hard, Yes, it is too challenging and damaging. If
you don't have your why, and if you aren't able
to hold onto that every single day, this thing can
break you. So you got to know your why and
(43:51):
then you'll have which you need to go after it
and you get up every morning, if you suit up
and you get back on the field, that's right.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Well, I literally could talk to you, my friends, because
you know, I feel like the mission that you have
set for yourself in your state is really the most
American of all missions. I mean, give people the chance
to make the most out of their own God given potential.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Governor Wes Moore, thank you, Thank you for talking to me,
Thank you for demonstrating just extraordinary leadership and as we say,
just keep going.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Thank you for all you do for all of us
and the example that you set in for the friendship.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
I wish we had time to bring on all the
great governors and mayors and city council members, you name it,
who are out there actually doing the hard work to
make our communities thrive. The serious leaders who are interested
in results, not just rhetoric. Well, I can't talk to everyone,
you will find some great conversations with folks like Michigan
(44:57):
Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Pennsylvania State Representative Malcolm Kenyata, and Boston
Mayor Michelle Wou. If you go to You and Me
Both on iHeart Podcasts and look through our archive, You
and Me Both is brought to you by iHeart Podcasts.
(45:19):
We're produced by Julie Subren, Kathleen Russo and Rob Russo,
with help from Khuma Abadeen, Oscar Flores, Lindsey Hoffman, Sarah Horowitz,
Laura Olin, Lona Valmoorro and the Lily Weber. Our engineer
is Zach McNeice, and the original music is by Forrest Gray.
(45:42):
If you like You and Me Both, tell someone else
about it. And if you're not already a subscriber, what
are you waiting for? You can subscribe to You and
Me Both on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening and I'll see
you next week.
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