October 25, 2023 • 20 mins
Couch Talks is the bonus episode of You Need Therapy where Kat answers questions listeners send to kathryn@youneedtherapypodcast.com. This week Kat responds to a e-mail about a listener who is feeling low after riding the high of her engagement and wedding season.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch
Talks on You Need Therapy podcast. If you are new
and don't know what couch Talks is, it is the
bonus episode of You Need Therapy that comes out every
single Wednesday, where I answer questions that listeners you guys,
send to me and you can send those to Catherine
(00:33):
at therapy podcast dot com. And before we get into
today's question, quick reminder.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
As always, even.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Though we're answering your questions and you are getting not
just one but two therapists today, this podcast does not
serve as actual therapy or any replacement for actual mental
health services or substitute for those. However, it's still allowed
to help and we hope that it does. We try
(01:02):
to do one question a week and that's what we're
gonna do, and I always keep them anonymous. You don't
have to worry about your name being out there, or
your email address or where you're from or any of that.
The only thing that I would caution you guys too,
when you're sending in your emails, if there is a
lot of personal information in there, I do try to
read them just how you write them, so don't put
(01:24):
anything in there that you wouldn't want me to read
on here. And if you do want to give me background,
just make a note to let me know what not
to read. I want to say on air. But this
isn't on air. This is read on the podcast, on
the record, on the record that you wouldn't you wouldn't
want on the record. Okay, And you also just heard
(01:45):
another person's voice. We have a not one, not two,
not three, but fourth. Is this your fourth time?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
We have the famous Julia from three Quarters Therapy here,
So if you guys are not familiar with who's she is,
she is another one of the therapists at the practice
that I own, and she was here originally to talk
about religious trauma. And then you've been on a couple
couch talks, and then you did a recent Monday episode
(02:16):
about what it's like to go to therapy for the
first time. So highly recommend those ones. You're always great.
Julia has the voice of a therapist, you do. You've
gotten that multiple times, haven't you.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I have gotten that a couple of times, I.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Will admit, And that's just so nice, because I don't
think I have that voice. I think maybe my voice
has changed as I have become a therapist a little bit,
but I definitely wasn't born with that voice, and you know,
like the soothing calm, like you just want to listen
to it.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You could do meditations.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Wow, thank you. I almost went into business, so I
think my voice is better suited for this.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah. When I think of business, I think of like
the boardroom. Yeah, no, which you could do that too, well,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah. The reason I asked really to be on this
episode is because the question we got one it's a
little triggering for me because I'm, uh, this is kind
of one of my biggest fears. And we'll talk more
about that as we get through the email. But Julia
got married in March. March, okay, and so we have
not just a therapist, but somebody has also had the
(03:26):
experience of going through we're talking about a wedding today,
but going through planning a wedding, getting married, and then
what it's like after. And while her experience I think
is going to be a little different than our listener
that wrote this, I just thought it would be nice
to have somebody who has been in that position in
case there is anything that she would want to add.
(03:47):
Or say just about that personally. Now, this email is
a little longer than most, so I'm going to read
it and hope I can get through this without Actually,
I'm gonna challenge myself. Usually I have to restart these
emails four or five times because I get a little
tongue tied.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm going to challenge myself. I'm going to get through
this in one shot.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I'm working on my public speaking, so remember attend this
is public speaking. Okay, So here is the email to day. Hey,
kat I just got married about three weeks ago, and
it really was the best day of my life. We
went on our honeymoon right away, so we've been transitioning
back to in quote normal life over the past week
(04:27):
or so. I've been a little surprised with how it's
been affecting me. I've been feeling down slash depressed, and
it's nothing to do with the marriage itself. My husband
is great and super supportive, but I felt a big
coming down from the high of being the center of
such a big day and our amazing trip afterwards, which
(04:49):
I'm this is me talking. I kind of want to
know where you went. Back to the email, I find
myself just lounging around the house on my off days,
not motivated to do anything. At first, I thought it
was my body and mind just needing to arrest since
the last one to two months were so crazy with
the last minute wedding planning. But now I'm starting to
think it's more than just needing rest. I find myself
(05:10):
spiraling out of control by looking at social media and
everyone else's beautiful weddings or other big news in their lives.
Instead of just being happy for them, I feel sad
because the attention isn't on me, which is crazy to
me because I'm never one to want to be the
center of attention. Now, my question is, in times like these,
(05:30):
how do you know when you should listen to your
body slash mind and take a rest, versus when it's
something more than that, like depression and something that would
require some action to work your way out of, instead
of spiraling more into it. Sorry if that's really long
and wordy and doesn't make sense, but I just thought
maybe the whole overarching idea could spark a conversation and
(05:51):
get you super excited to get married.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Haha.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
She wrote that No, really, it's been great. I just
want to get back to feeling more myself on a
day basis. Okay, So for those of you listening and
we're like, good job, Catherine, you got through it perfectly.
I messed up like three or four times, but we
cut it out, so I'm gonna try again next time,
maybe on a shorter email. So when I initially read this,
(06:15):
there are two things that stuck out that are different
and also can be connected. One is this whole idea
that I think a lot of people can relate to
and gain something from, is how do I know the
difference between just needing to rest and needing a little break.
And also when something really is not going right and
(06:37):
I need some extra attention, this might border into depression
and anxiety that needs maybe help from a therapist or
a psychiatrist, versus just feeling sad or scared. Right, So
we can feel sad or scared, we can also feel
depressed and anxious. Those are not always the same, but
they can be connected. And then the other thing I'm
hearing is the struggle to find normalcy after writing such
(07:01):
a long period of being in this state of relatedness
and essentially a high. So it's the come down that's
a very normal thing that most people will understand what
those two words mean. When we have a really high
moment in our lives and we come back down into normalcy.
Normalcy now can feel like it's under the line, like
(07:22):
going into the darkness, when really that's a baseline for you.
But you have been so far away from your baseline
that the high starts to feel like the baseline. So
I'm going to throw this to you. What do you
think as a therapist coming from your therapy brain, what
(07:44):
do you see our big markers or indications that somebody
is not just sad and there might be some depression
that needs attention. And what happens if we are just sad?
Do we have to be depressed to need that extra attention?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So we know sadness, like you said, can be a
part of depression, But depression has a lot more layers
to that tube besides just sadness. It can come up
as anger and irritability and even like a restlessness, and
so depression can take on so many other forms than
(08:22):
just sadness. And I'm also thinking about the difference between
when we lose something and we're feeling grief or bereavement
versus depression ooh, and how we often as therapists are
kind of like waiting out that period of bereavement to
see or is this just part of the normal grieving
that you're feeling, or is this becoming something deeper, like
(08:47):
a depression that's going to stick around.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I think that is so important to take pause and
focus on that. The fact that one getting married is
usually such a exciting, fun, happy time for the most part,
so we don't think about grief being involved. But there
(09:09):
are so many things that you grieve moving into this
new life phase. So just you changing your life and
your lifestyle and maybe I don't know, maybe you don't
live with your partner. There's just so many things that change,
and so there is grief in that. But also the
planning of a wedding and the events that lead up
(09:29):
to a wedding and all of that, you also are
a grieving that that's over and the event itself is over.
And so bringing grief into this conversation I think is
very very important and something that I don't know if
people feel allowed or permission to talk about, which is
funny because when I made a joke earlier about this
(09:50):
is one of my biggest fears.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
This emails a little triggering to me.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I don't mean that seriously, but at the same time
seriously something that I know about myself in general and
a seven on the enneagram. And I get more joy
sometimes looking forward to events than the actual events, because
when the events come, I like start the graving process
because I'm like, oh, it's going to be over. And
I was sharing with Julia earlier that something that was
(10:16):
very helpful for me in my periods of singleness and
even after. I use some of this when I was
dating my current fiance, but I always would tell myself, Oh,
I still have to look forward to meeting my future partner.
I still have all these things to look forward to,
and that was very exciting to me and helped me
(10:37):
conjure up some of the hope that I needed to,
you know, keep fighting the good fight of dating. And
the other part is as I was going to all
these weddings too, and I was single and I didn't
know it was I still get to look forward to
my wedding. My wedding hasn't happened yet, so now I'm
sitting in the space of, well, my wedding's getting pretty
freaking close.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
And I can only look.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Forward to it for about four more and that there's
a loss in that there's a loss of excitement and
there's an over like something is going to be over.
And so I'm very aware of this. Therefore I can
do some things to preemptively take care of myself, and
(11:19):
we can't pre grave things. So I know there's going
to be some sadness after and that's okay, and that
can be very normal. And so I want to offer
the listener that wrote this and anybody who's experiencing it
doesn't have to be your wedding. But even when something
is very happy and exciting and you said, like the
(11:41):
marriage is great, you love your husband, your honeymoon was
so wonderful, you still are sitting in a loss. The
loss of that thing probably isn't happening again, right, And
it's something that in our culture we start dreaming of
a lot of times when we are little, like four,
five six, you play like wedding, you know, you try
(12:04):
I know that we would try on my mom's like
prom dresses and pretend they are they were wedding dresses.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And so there is a loss there and that is.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Normal, is what I'm saying, and with what you're also saying, Julia,
I hear is sometimes we have to sit in the
waves of the grief for a period of time before
we label something as depression, because grief is not depression
and depression is not grief.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
But they share some of the same attributes.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So my other part of the question that I asked was, Okay,
well let's say this isn't depression. When do we know
or are what are we looking for in terms of
deciding if the feelings we are having are worthy of
more attention or if I just need to sit in it.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
So I'm a believer that obviously we need to sit
in our feelings and feel them and feel through them,
and we don't want to get stuck there. And so
I think that it's a balance of, like you said,
grieving the loss or feeling whatever it is that you're feeling,
(13:18):
and then taking note of what happens next, what do
you need to do next? Not rushing out of that,
but I'm thinking, what was it about that time in
your life, or the wedding, or the feeling of being
the center of attention that was really joyful for you,
that that gave you so much life outside and you
(13:39):
know what's obvious, that's like the happiest time ever. It's
meant to be the best day. But what parts of
that can you reflect on and take into what your
life is now? And is that maybe an area of
reflection you can kind of move into after you you
are feeling the feelings of the loss of it being
over all of that.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, because the listener said that she's usually not the
center of attention and doesn't like look to be that.
And as I read this email, I thought, well.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Okay, that can be true.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I believe you when you say that, And could it
also be true that maybe you have never experienced something
like this before and it actually was nice and it
was nice to focus on yourself and it was nice
to have attention. It was nice to be able to
put so much energy into something. I mean, there could
be a million reasons why you liked that experience, and
(14:33):
so maybe it's something that pre wedding you didn't know,
because we can't know what we don't know, and I
can't like know that I love that. I don't know
chicken parmesan if I've never had it before, you know,
I don't know why that's the food that came to
my mind. But I can't know that I love that
if I've never had it. And so maybe that's something
(14:53):
similar for you, which is I think some of what
you're saying, and I believe that feel your fear feelings.
You guys have heard me say that one bajillion times,
and our feelings are we don't get to decide when
those are ready to change, but they are guides and
so we have to feel them in order to ask
(15:14):
those questions like what is it that I need? And
going to therapy does not then take those feelings away either,
and so I don't think there has to be a difference. Really,
I think this part of why this might be a
trick question is I don't know that there is a
definitive line of when you should and when you need
(15:35):
to just wait it out and you don't really need it,
because therapy can always be helpful and it can always
give you tools, or even in this conversation, there might
be things that you hear, Oh, I wouldn't have thought
to ask myself that question, So that is always available.
Now there are moments when okay, there needs to be
some intervention. Yes, I think that that's true, that we
(15:58):
need to take action, and this is necessary, but I
don't think we have to be at that moment to
take action.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So if this is something that it feels.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Like something you want to explore, then like I would
encourage you to go talk to somebody about this. It
doesn't have to be a therapist. Maybe it is a friend,
Maybe it is a therapist. It sounds like you're having
some human emotions that are attached to a very human
experience and part of that experience that people don't talk
about a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And just to add some hope here at the end,
I think that, like you were saying, Kat, we can
have this like scarcy mindset around this is the one
wedding maybe that I'll have and the one time I
get to like experience this, which could be true, But
then that also creates this kind of scarcy mindset of
like this is the only time I'll feel this joy,
(16:47):
this is the only time I'll have this like elation
that I'm feeling. And I don't think that necessarily has
to be true. There will be times in your life
that will reflect pieces of that joy or that closeness.
Maybe you're feeling a family or friends, so to kind
of flip it into an abundance mindset, like there's gonna
(17:08):
be more of this in my life. This isn't the
last time I will feel this way. But let me
take stock of what it is that was so important
to me about this and made me feel, you know,
so joyful in this, so that I can look out
for that in the future or move more towards that
in the future.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, that is helpful even for me to hear.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Now, if there is a loss, it's important to allot
yourself to grieve that, and that grief doesn't mean that
there isn't anything else in your future. There isn't anything
else forward, and our lives don't end after we get married.
But I think that also speaks to there's a whole
different conversation that I won't go totally down this rabbit hole,
but it does speak to our culture. And I feel
(17:52):
this deep in my bones, and it's there's been a
lot of attempting to undo this, but our culture, just
like I said, we start pretending in place marriage and
wedding when we're so young. It does kind of shove
down our throats that this is the pinnacle. This is
just like there's the toxics messaging around there's no love
(18:12):
like the love of a child, and like you won't
know true love until you have a child. It's very
similar in the sense that this is the happiest day
of your life. Like that can be true for people,
and also that can be really scary if that is
true for people. So I think I would encourage you
to maybe just challenge. I don't know what the challenge
(18:35):
is going to bring, but challenge some of what you're
really feeling because it feels true and real to you,
and what you're feeling because of the messaging we're told
about what our lives should and will be like and
what is important and what is not important. Just some
food for thought for you anyway, Thanks Joya. Yeah, if
(18:55):
you would like to find Julia on Instagram, where can
these people go?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
They can find me at the Self Compassion counselor on
Instagram and that's the only place you can find me.
I don't know how to use TikTok or Facebook is
just for you know, my family.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Okay, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Where you can find the podcast at you need therapy
podcasts on Instagram and me at Kat dot Defada and
then also you can find.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Both of us over at three Quarts Therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Those all are interconnected, and also a reminder that if
you have a question or feedback or anything you would
like to share with us, you can send that to
Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Katherine is
spelled with the K and R y N because my
mom wanted my life to be difficult. Also, I really
(19:52):
do like the spelling of my name, but I don't
know if I like it because like it's mine and
it's like different, or if I really if my name
was spelled hey, t R, I N E. What I
like that, I don't know. We'll never know, and it's
actually not important. So I hope you guys are having
the day you need to have and I will be
back with you on Monday. Bye.
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Couch
Talks on You Need Therapy podcast. If you are new
and don't know what couch Talks is, it is the
bonus episode of You Need Therapy that comes out every
single Wednesday, where I answer questions that listeners you guys,
send to me and you can send those to Catherine
(00:33):
at therapy podcast dot com. And before we get into
today's question, quick reminder.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
As always, even.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Though we're answering your questions and you are getting not
just one but two therapists today, this podcast does not
serve as actual therapy or any replacement for actual mental
health services or substitute for those. However, it's still allowed
to help and we hope that it does. We try
(01:02):
to do one question a week and that's what we're
gonna do, and I always keep them anonymous. You don't
have to worry about your name being out there, or
your email address or where you're from or any of that.
The only thing that I would caution you guys too,
when you're sending in your emails, if there is a
lot of personal information in there, I do try to
read them just how you write them, so don't put
(01:24):
anything in there that you wouldn't want me to read
on here. And if you do want to give me background,
just make a note to let me know what not
to read. I want to say on air. But this
isn't on air. This is read on the podcast, on
the record, on the record that you wouldn't you wouldn't
want on the record. Okay, And you also just heard
(01:45):
another person's voice. We have a not one, not two,
not three, but fourth. Is this your fourth time?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
I think so.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
We have the famous Julia from three Quarters Therapy here,
So if you guys are not familiar with who's she is,
she is another one of the therapists at the practice
that I own, and she was here originally to talk
about religious trauma. And then you've been on a couple
couch talks, and then you did a recent Monday episode
(02:16):
about what it's like to go to therapy for the
first time. So highly recommend those ones. You're always great.
Julia has the voice of a therapist, you do. You've
gotten that multiple times, haven't you.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I have gotten that a couple of times, I.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Will admit, And that's just so nice, because I don't
think I have that voice. I think maybe my voice
has changed as I have become a therapist a little bit,
but I definitely wasn't born with that voice, and you know,
like the soothing calm, like you just want to listen
to it.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You could do meditations.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Wow, thank you. I almost went into business, so I
think my voice is better suited for this.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah. When I think of business, I think of like
the boardroom. Yeah, no, which you could do that too, well,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah. The reason I asked really to be on this
episode is because the question we got one it's a
little triggering for me because I'm, uh, this is kind
of one of my biggest fears. And we'll talk more
about that as we get through the email. But Julia
got married in March. March, okay, and so we have
not just a therapist, but somebody has also had the
(03:26):
experience of going through we're talking about a wedding today,
but going through planning a wedding, getting married, and then
what it's like after. And while her experience I think
is going to be a little different than our listener
that wrote this, I just thought it would be nice
to have somebody who has been in that position in
case there is anything that she would want to add.
(03:47):
Or say just about that personally. Now, this email is
a little longer than most, so I'm going to read
it and hope I can get through this without Actually,
I'm gonna challenge myself. Usually I have to restart these
emails four or five times because I get a little
tongue tied.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I'm going to challenge myself. I'm going to get through
this in one shot.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I'm working on my public speaking, so remember attend this
is public speaking. Okay, So here is the email to day. Hey,
kat I just got married about three weeks ago, and
it really was the best day of my life. We
went on our honeymoon right away, so we've been transitioning
back to in quote normal life over the past week
(04:27):
or so. I've been a little surprised with how it's
been affecting me. I've been feeling down slash depressed, and
it's nothing to do with the marriage itself. My husband
is great and super supportive, but I felt a big
coming down from the high of being the center of
such a big day and our amazing trip afterwards, which
(04:49):
I'm this is me talking. I kind of want to
know where you went. Back to the email, I find
myself just lounging around the house on my off days,
not motivated to do anything. At first, I thought it
was my body and mind just needing to arrest since
the last one to two months were so crazy with
the last minute wedding planning. But now I'm starting to
think it's more than just needing rest. I find myself
(05:10):
spiraling out of control by looking at social media and
everyone else's beautiful weddings or other big news in their lives.
Instead of just being happy for them, I feel sad
because the attention isn't on me, which is crazy to
me because I'm never one to want to be the
center of attention. Now, my question is, in times like these,
(05:30):
how do you know when you should listen to your
body slash mind and take a rest, versus when it's
something more than that, like depression and something that would
require some action to work your way out of, instead
of spiraling more into it. Sorry if that's really long
and wordy and doesn't make sense, but I just thought
maybe the whole overarching idea could spark a conversation and
(05:51):
get you super excited to get married.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Haha.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
She wrote that No, really, it's been great. I just
want to get back to feeling more myself on a
day basis. Okay, So for those of you listening and
we're like, good job, Catherine, you got through it perfectly.
I messed up like three or four times, but we
cut it out, so I'm gonna try again next time,
maybe on a shorter email. So when I initially read this,
(06:15):
there are two things that stuck out that are different
and also can be connected. One is this whole idea
that I think a lot of people can relate to
and gain something from, is how do I know the
difference between just needing to rest and needing a little break.
And also when something really is not going right and
(06:37):
I need some extra attention, this might border into depression
and anxiety that needs maybe help from a therapist or
a psychiatrist, versus just feeling sad or scared. Right, So
we can feel sad or scared, we can also feel
depressed and anxious. Those are not always the same, but
they can be connected. And then the other thing I'm
hearing is the struggle to find normalcy after writing such
(07:01):
a long period of being in this state of relatedness
and essentially a high. So it's the come down that's
a very normal thing that most people will understand what
those two words mean. When we have a really high
moment in our lives and we come back down into normalcy.
Normalcy now can feel like it's under the line, like
(07:22):
going into the darkness, when really that's a baseline for you.
But you have been so far away from your baseline
that the high starts to feel like the baseline. So
I'm going to throw this to you. What do you
think as a therapist coming from your therapy brain, what
(07:44):
do you see our big markers or indications that somebody
is not just sad and there might be some depression
that needs attention. And what happens if we are just sad?
Do we have to be depressed to need that extra attention?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So we know sadness, like you said, can be a
part of depression, But depression has a lot more layers
to that tube besides just sadness. It can come up
as anger and irritability and even like a restlessness, and
so depression can take on so many other forms than
(08:22):
just sadness. And I'm also thinking about the difference between
when we lose something and we're feeling grief or bereavement
versus depression ooh, and how we often as therapists are
kind of like waiting out that period of bereavement to
see or is this just part of the normal grieving
that you're feeling, or is this becoming something deeper, like
(08:47):
a depression that's going to stick around.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
I think that is so important to take pause and
focus on that. The fact that one getting married is
usually such a exciting, fun, happy time for the most part,
so we don't think about grief being involved. But there
(09:09):
are so many things that you grieve moving into this
new life phase. So just you changing your life and
your lifestyle and maybe I don't know, maybe you don't
live with your partner. There's just so many things that change,
and so there is grief in that. But also the
planning of a wedding and the events that lead up
(09:29):
to a wedding and all of that, you also are
a grieving that that's over and the event itself is over.
And so bringing grief into this conversation I think is
very very important and something that I don't know if
people feel allowed or permission to talk about, which is
funny because when I made a joke earlier about this
(09:50):
is one of my biggest fears.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
This emails a little triggering to me.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I don't mean that seriously, but at the same time
seriously something that I know about myself in general and
a seven on the enneagram. And I get more joy
sometimes looking forward to events than the actual events, because
when the events come, I like start the graving process
because I'm like, oh, it's going to be over. And
I was sharing with Julia earlier that something that was
(10:16):
very helpful for me in my periods of singleness and
even after. I use some of this when I was
dating my current fiance, but I always would tell myself, Oh,
I still have to look forward to meeting my future partner.
I still have all these things to look forward to,
and that was very exciting to me and helped me
(10:37):
conjure up some of the hope that I needed to,
you know, keep fighting the good fight of dating. And
the other part is as I was going to all
these weddings too, and I was single and I didn't
know it was I still get to look forward to
my wedding. My wedding hasn't happened yet, so now I'm
sitting in the space of, well, my wedding's getting pretty
freaking close.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
And I can only look.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
Forward to it for about four more and that there's
a loss in that there's a loss of excitement and
there's an over like something is going to be over.
And so I'm very aware of this. Therefore I can
do some things to preemptively take care of myself, and
(11:19):
we can't pre grave things. So I know there's going
to be some sadness after and that's okay, and that
can be very normal. And so I want to offer
the listener that wrote this and anybody who's experiencing it
doesn't have to be your wedding. But even when something
is very happy and exciting and you said, like the
(11:41):
marriage is great, you love your husband, your honeymoon was
so wonderful, you still are sitting in a loss. The
loss of that thing probably isn't happening again, right, And
it's something that in our culture we start dreaming of
a lot of times when we are little, like four,
five six, you play like wedding, you know, you try
(12:04):
I know that we would try on my mom's like
prom dresses and pretend they are they were wedding dresses.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And so there is a loss there and that is.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Normal, is what I'm saying, and with what you're also saying, Julia,
I hear is sometimes we have to sit in the
waves of the grief for a period of time before
we label something as depression, because grief is not depression
and depression is not grief.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
But they share some of the same attributes.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So my other part of the question that I asked was, Okay,
well let's say this isn't depression. When do we know
or are what are we looking for in terms of
deciding if the feelings we are having are worthy of
more attention or if I just need to sit in it.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
So I'm a believer that obviously we need to sit
in our feelings and feel them and feel through them,
and we don't want to get stuck there. And so
I think that it's a balance of, like you said,
grieving the loss or feeling whatever it is that you're feeling,
(13:18):
and then taking note of what happens next, what do
you need to do next? Not rushing out of that,
but I'm thinking, what was it about that time in
your life, or the wedding, or the feeling of being
the center of attention that was really joyful for you,
that that gave you so much life outside and you
(13:39):
know what's obvious, that's like the happiest time ever. It's
meant to be the best day. But what parts of
that can you reflect on and take into what your
life is now? And is that maybe an area of
reflection you can kind of move into after you you
are feeling the feelings of the loss of it being
over all of that.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Yeah, because the listener said that she's usually not the
center of attention and doesn't like look to be that.
And as I read this email, I thought, well.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Okay, that can be true.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I believe you when you say that, And could it
also be true that maybe you have never experienced something
like this before and it actually was nice and it
was nice to focus on yourself and it was nice
to have attention. It was nice to be able to
put so much energy into something. I mean, there could
be a million reasons why you liked that experience, and
(14:33):
so maybe it's something that pre wedding you didn't know,
because we can't know what we don't know, and I
can't like know that I love that. I don't know
chicken parmesan if I've never had it before, you know,
I don't know why that's the food that came to
my mind. But I can't know that I love that
if I've never had it. And so maybe that's something
(14:53):
similar for you, which is I think some of what
you're saying, and I believe that feel your fear feelings.
You guys have heard me say that one bajillion times,
and our feelings are we don't get to decide when
those are ready to change, but they are guides and
so we have to feel them in order to ask
(15:14):
those questions like what is it that I need? And
going to therapy does not then take those feelings away either,
and so I don't think there has to be a difference. Really,
I think this part of why this might be a
trick question is I don't know that there is a
definitive line of when you should and when you need
(15:35):
to just wait it out and you don't really need it,
because therapy can always be helpful and it can always
give you tools, or even in this conversation, there might
be things that you hear, Oh, I wouldn't have thought
to ask myself that question, So that is always available.
Now there are moments when okay, there needs to be
some intervention. Yes, I think that that's true, that we
(15:58):
need to take action, and this is necessary, but I
don't think we have to be at that moment to
take action.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
So if this is something that it feels.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Like something you want to explore, then like I would
encourage you to go talk to somebody about this. It
doesn't have to be a therapist. Maybe it is a friend,
Maybe it is a therapist. It sounds like you're having
some human emotions that are attached to a very human
experience and part of that experience that people don't talk
about a lot.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
And just to add some hope here at the end,
I think that, like you were saying, Kat, we can
have this like scarcy mindset around this is the one
wedding maybe that I'll have and the one time I
get to like experience this, which could be true, But
then that also creates this kind of scarcy mindset of
like this is the only time I'll feel this joy,
(16:47):
this is the only time I'll have this like elation
that I'm feeling. And I don't think that necessarily has
to be true. There will be times in your life
that will reflect pieces of that joy or that closeness.
Maybe you're feeling a family or friends, so to kind
of flip it into an abundance mindset, like there's gonna
(17:08):
be more of this in my life. This isn't the
last time I will feel this way. But let me
take stock of what it is that was so important
to me about this and made me feel, you know,
so joyful in this, so that I can look out
for that in the future or move more towards that
in the future.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Yeah, that is helpful even for me to hear.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Now, if there is a loss, it's important to allot
yourself to grieve that, and that grief doesn't mean that
there isn't anything else in your future. There isn't anything
else forward, and our lives don't end after we get married.
But I think that also speaks to there's a whole
different conversation that I won't go totally down this rabbit hole,
but it does speak to our culture. And I feel
(17:52):
this deep in my bones, and it's there's been a
lot of attempting to undo this, but our culture, just
like I said, we start pretending in place marriage and
wedding when we're so young. It does kind of shove
down our throats that this is the pinnacle. This is
just like there's the toxics messaging around there's no love
(18:12):
like the love of a child, and like you won't
know true love until you have a child. It's very
similar in the sense that this is the happiest day
of your life. Like that can be true for people,
and also that can be really scary if that is
true for people. So I think I would encourage you
to maybe just challenge. I don't know what the challenge
(18:35):
is going to bring, but challenge some of what you're
really feeling because it feels true and real to you,
and what you're feeling because of the messaging we're told
about what our lives should and will be like and
what is important and what is not important. Just some
food for thought for you anyway, Thanks Joya. Yeah, if
(18:55):
you would like to find Julia on Instagram, where can
these people go?
Speaker 3 (19:03):
They can find me at the Self Compassion counselor on
Instagram and that's the only place you can find me.
I don't know how to use TikTok or Facebook is
just for you know, my family.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
So.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Okay, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Where you can find the podcast at you need therapy
podcasts on Instagram and me at Kat dot Defada and
then also you can find.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Both of us over at three Quarts Therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Those all are interconnected, and also a reminder that if
you have a question or feedback or anything you would
like to share with us, you can send that to
Katherine at You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Katherine is
spelled with the K and R y N because my
mom wanted my life to be difficult. Also, I really
(19:52):
do like the spelling of my name, but I don't
know if I like it because like it's mine and
it's like different, or if I really if my name
was spelled hey, t R, I N E. What I
like that, I don't know. We'll never know, and it's
actually not important. So I hope you guys are having
the day you need to have and I will be
back with you on Monday. Bye.
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