October 9, 2023 • 37 mins
This week’s episode is one that Kat tried to avoid making… but eventually she had to join the conversation. For about the past year, drugs containing semiglutide (like ozempic) have been gaining popularity in doctor’s offices and in the media. So, is this what we have all been looking for? Did someone finally discover the cure for the “so called” disease that doctors are labeling as “Obesity.”
In this episode, Kat invites her long time friend and colleague, Jamison Worley, to the show to talk about what semiglutide is, how it works, and what the current research actually says. Jamison is the founder of Worley Nutrition Group and is a licensed and registered dietitian that specializes in eating disorders, diabetes, and sports nutrition. This conversation is meant to offer more accurate information to listeners— not to tell them what to do— but to give them the opportunity to make accurate and informed decisions for themselves.
Work with Jamison: Worley Nutrition Group (https://worleynutritiongroup.com/)
Follow Worley Nutrition Group: @worleynutritiongroup
Follow Kat on Instagram: @Kat.Defatta
Follow the podcast Instagram: @YouNeedTherapyPodcast
Have a question, concern, guest idea, something else? Reach Kat at: Kathryn@youneedtherapyodcast.com
Heard about Three Cords Therapy but don’t know what it is? Click here!
Produced by: @HoustonTilley
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Coming up on you need therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I see it time and time again of clients coming
in wanting to take it, thinking that I'm going to
take this medication and I'm going to lose fat cells
where I want to lose fat cells. And it's like that,
that's not how this works, right. It's more of a
it's mimicking a process in your body to delay our
stomach emptying because it's releasing more insulin, and in turn,
it's just messing up or interfering with other hormones in
(00:25):
our body, the like our grellin and our leptin, which
is our hunger and fullness like hormones, and so we're.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Just we're not feeling hunger cues, we're not eating.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I started to realize that not being an expert isn't
a liability, it's a real gift.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
If we don't know something about ourselves at this point
in our life.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
If you can die before you die, then you can
really live. There's a wisdom at death's door.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I thought I was insane, yeah, and I didn't know
what to do because there was no internet.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I don't know, and I'm like, I feel like everything
is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a
human first and a licensed therapist second, and right now
I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you
to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,
(01:19):
and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You
Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat and I am
the host. If you are new to the podcast, I
like to give a little disclaimer at the top of
every episode that just reminds everybody that I although this
(01:39):
podcast is called You Need Therapy and it's hosted by
a licensed therapist, it is not a substitute or a
replacement for any actual mental health services. And today we
are talking about a very controversial topic that has a
lot to do with things that I am actually not
(02:01):
It is not my wheelhouse. So I have brought in
one of my oldest friends I think I've known you
since sixth or seventh grade to talk about this from
her perspective, because she actually does have the education in
the background to be able to speak on the things
that we're talking about. And I know you're on the
edge of your toes. What is it that you're going
to be talking about? And who is it that is
(02:22):
sitting there with you ready to talk about this? Because
you probably haven't read the title, which I like to
keep people waiting. I'm like, they know what I'm about
to talk about because the title says it. Anyway, we're
talking about ozepic today, a topic that I actually have
tried to stay a little away from when it comes
to this podcast, specifically because what I just said, I'm
(02:43):
not the expert on this and I can't be the
expert because this is not where my education lies. But
I do know people that are credible sources to talk
about this, one being Jamison Whorley, who I always want
to call you, Jamison Stewart. Still you're still on my phone,
is Jamison Stewart.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's cool you're.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Let's say yes, but like you don't.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Just it's hard to change.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
All of our little high school friends are like that
for me.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So Jameson is a dietitian. She's a registered dietitian and
a license dietitian in Tennessee, and she is going to
talk us through some of the hot topics that have
to do with this very popular drug right now called ozempic.
(03:29):
You might not totally understand some of these words, and
it almost is like I have to go look up
the definition to understand the definition of another definition. That's
how I feel sometimes with this. So we're going to
try to make this easy for you to digest. I'm
going to say this again later, but if you do
have any questions, if any questions come up while we're
talking about this, send them to me Katherine at UNIU
(03:51):
Therapy podcast dot com and we will try to answer
those as best we can on possibly a couch Talks episode.
One more thing before where we get into the juice
of this is we are here to offer you information
from a place of total non judgment. And most of
you guys know this from listening to past episodes. My
(04:13):
goal is to help people make more informed decisions for themselves.
My goal is never to make a decision for somebody else.
It is to help somebody figure out what they need
versus me tell them. And this is one of those spaces.
And I really want you to hear that because I
don't want anybody to ever feel shamed by any of
the information we talk about on here and as you
(04:35):
guys know, everything is nuanced, so there is not a
blanket answer that there's one thing that's right for everybody
and one thing that's wrong. We are just talking about
what we know about a drug that is very popular
right now. Now, I do realize that I have not
let Jamison say hi, so hello and welcome. Hi. Is
(04:59):
there any the thing you want people to know as
well from your perspective before we get into some of this.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, I mean I'm in the same space one. I'm
so pumped to be here today. Like Catherine said, I
have known this girl since middle school, back in the
day of limited to and dealing. Yes, so I'm really
excited and it's fun to be in the same space,
you know, at least, you know, graduate to the space
where we both are. I think a big thing is
is like she asked me to, you know, talk about
(05:26):
this and be on this podcast, and pumped to talk
about it because I see it so much in my practice.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Am I an expert?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But is my job to help educate clients? Yes, So
I'm hoping that that's what today is. And like Catherine said,
I'm hoping that like today, as I mentioned that, we're
just giving you, guys, education so that you can make
informed choices for your bodies and not feel judgment by
any of it. You know, to each their own your body,
your body, and that's why I always preached my clients.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And one thing that I've heard and seen from some
of the stuff on the internet right now is is
and this is what if you're pro this drug or
what's the opposite of pro con con this drug against.
I'm not encouraging anybody to take what we're saying and
then solely make a medical decision based off of that.
(06:16):
This is parts of the puzzle. And because we don't
know you specifically in your story and all that, I
do want you to again take that nuance into consideration
as we go. Take the pieces that fit and make
sense to you, talk to people, your providers about them,
ask the questions to them, and then do what you
(06:36):
need to do. Okay, Okay, so we're going to get
into it. If you are not aware of what ozempic is,
then one that is crazy at this point because I
feel like, and maybe it's because I'm in this field,
I feel like every time I turn I'm seeing an
article or a podcast or something talking about this drug
(06:58):
or the drugs in the cagory that we're going to
talk about. So can you tell us what ozempic is,
what semi glue tide is, and all the things that
are in that.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So start by beginning. I kind of got introduced to
this drug a couple of years ago. One of the
things that I see a lot is diabetes, and so
I ozempic started coming up in my practice a lot,
you know, with people who were type two diabetic who
needed it, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And I'll get into what that means.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So the ones that you've heard, so that we have
semaglue tides and we have ter zeppeitide.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So semaglue tide.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Is our withgov and our ozempic, so a zimpic has
been FDA approved for diabetes diabetes only and per research
and everything. Basically, providers started to see that the way
that these drugs were working weight loss was also happening.
So basically you have semaglue tides, which is with govy
and ozempic and both of those are from Novodortis, which
(07:49):
is a pharmaceutical company. And then you have tterzepetides, which
is Manjaro, and that's from Eli Lilly.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
What is Eli Lilly. It's a pharmaceutical company.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So these drugs are geop one agonis, so they mimic
the action of a hormone called glucagon like peptid one,
which is the gop one. When blood sugar levels rise
in our body. Right, So when we eat something or
we naturally produce blood sugars, then our body releases insulin.
(08:19):
So this gop one mimics insulin in our body, which
essentially helps to lower the blood sugar levels in our body.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We need insulin, right, Okay, So these medications are creating
or mimicking or increasing the production of insulin, yes okay.
And that is pulling sugar out of our blood, yes okay,
so and putting it where it's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yes, So think of it as our body is run
by hormones, right. Insulin's a hormone, Grellin's a hormone, leptins
a hormone.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Those are our hunger fullness cues for our brain.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So when you're adding in something that's mimicking a hormone
or our hormonal balance.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Gets a little wonky.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Right, And so with these it's mimicking that insulin response
by increasing more insulin in our body that's triggering. If
we're not diabetic or have too much blood sugar in
our system, then it's going to turn to weight loss.
And that's like that starvation mode piece that comes with
that too.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Doesn't make more sense.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So I want to clarify. If you have type two
diabetes or maybe type one ors are just type two okay, okay,
type two diabetes, this can actually be very very helpful
and necessary because your body doesn't naturally produce enough of
something that it needs to actually survive. Okay. If you
don't have that, then you are adding in something that
(09:51):
you don't actually need, and that is going to create
an imbalance in how your body produces and regulates its hormones. Right,
And a side effect of this drug not its intent,
but the side effect of this drug is weight loss.
So now this drug is being prescribed for its side effect, right, Okay.
(10:14):
And my question would be this might not be a
question you can really answer, is if I am taking
a drug that creates some kind of imbalance in my
system that I don't actually need, would there be side
effects in other parts of my body? Like, yeah, I
might lose weight, but am I going to be affected
in other areas? If I am taking a drug that
(10:44):
creates some kind of imbalance in my system that I
don't actually need, would there be side effects in other
parts of my body? Like, yeah, I might lose weight,
but am I going to be affected in other areas? Yes?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So that goes down to kind of the over response
of starvation mode.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Right, So I tell my clients.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
A lot that is starvation mode for people that don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So, starvation mode essentially is when our bodies naturally need
a baseline amount of energy to survive. So that's if
you were sleeping in the middle of the night, right,
you're not doing much but breathing whatever, So you're burning
energy just to keep your body alive. So if we're
not reaching that baseline amount of energy calthories, fuel, you
call it whatever you want, then our body gets into
(11:27):
starvation mode, which in turn is fight or flight mode.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So it's the same response if a bear is chasing
you down the street, right, You're not going to be
you can't make rational decisions. Your only thing is trying
to get away. The first thing that your body does
in that or The first two things is it holds
on too fat, no matter how little or how much
we have of it, because fat in our body is
the one macronutrient that our body deems is essential. Right,
It's not going to be like, oh, okay, I'm getting
(11:54):
chased down the street from a bear, so I'm going
to lose a bunch of fat in my love handle,
my thigh, my arm, you name it right, Like it's
it's essentially holding on to all of that because it
needs it. Right, fat is like the one cushion for
all of our organs, our bodies responses. It's our secondary
fuel source.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Wait, I just want to stop you there, because I
think that could be very really helpful for people to
hear that it is something that our body recognizes as essential.
Yet we are taught and told over and over it's
bad and wrong and gross and icky and get it
away totally, and people don't understand that the fat in
your body has a very large job to do. So, okay,
(12:36):
that's very helpful. So in starvation mode, it's going to
hold onto fat and then what else?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, And the second thing is it releases cortisol, which
is our stress hormone, and so that's something that's supposed
to be really quick, right, it's a fleeting response. We're
supposed to feel stressed or that you know that piece
because it's like we're in fight or flight. We need
to make those like whatever rational decision or irrational decision
in that mode to get out of fight or flight.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Because and your in starvation mode. Your body's number one
goal is to stay alive totally, okay, So if my
number one goal is to stay alive, what am I
not paying attention.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
To everything else going on everybody?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And that's why I think when we're talking about restriction
when it comes to eating disorders, it's so interesting the
conversations I get to have with clients about, Okay, you
think that you're out here just like living your life
and doing everything you need do the way you need
to do it. But you don't realize is your body
is making decisions based on necessity without you even knowing it.
(13:34):
So that's why things happen like oh, your hair's falling out,
or you have brain fog and you can't recall words,
or you can't remember things, because it's not trying to
listen to that lecture that you're sitting in in the
middle of your college whatever. It's trying to make sure
that you can still breathe, and you can your organs
(13:54):
are still working, that your heart is pumping. So that's
what it's focused on versus all of these other things.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, And I think to preface too, right, like, we
see it because we work with this population, or we
work with a population that has a very you know,
conshrewd sense of body and self right and food habits
or exercise or you know, body image, all the things,
and so it's sad and we grieve what our clients
are going through. So we see something like this come
(14:21):
on the market that's essentially another diet, it's just it's
hard to see.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I feel like we've kind of glazed over this. It's
a diet in the sense that what's happening when you're
taking this drug, especially when you are not being prescribed
for this for diabetes, is this drug is suppressing your appetite,
which I was very surprised to find out when I
first heard about it. I assumed, I'm like, what is
(14:47):
this doing to rev up people's metabolism? Like how is this?
I was so curious and to hear it was just
an appetite suppressant. That's why we're talking about starvation mode.
Is what is happening is you're taking this drug and
then you're not getting hungry, or you're not getting hungry,
or you're, like you said earlier, like your fullness and
(15:07):
your satiety cues, you're hunger. All that's getting jumbled up.
And so this is just a way for people to
restrict easier. It's a it's almost like a potion to
restrict easier because you don't have to fight against that
urge to eat when our urge to eat is a
(15:31):
thing that we need to keep this alive.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I don't know if we clarified this, but semi glue
tide is the active drug that's in these other medication
that's in mogov and ozempic. Correct, So that's why you're
hearing all of those different things. So a zempic is
approved for type two diabetes and then wegov is FDA
proved for weight loss. I find this very interesting. So
(15:58):
in my opinion, this is an opinion. My thoughts on
drugs being approved for weight loss comes from the determination
that obesity is a disease. And what I was also
very surprised and sad to find out is that obesity
was decided to be a disease based on a vote,
(16:22):
not actual hard evidence that was found. And we learned
this in the episode that I did with Leslie's Shilling
a couple of weeks ago. If you haven't listened to that,
I highly recommend it. She talks a lot about diet
culture and how it's everywhere, even in the safe places,
and when something can be defined as a disease, what
happens is we can code that when we are filling
(16:47):
out paperwork for insurance companies, So I mean I have
codes that I use for mental health disorders, and by
being able to diagnose a client, they are more likely
to be able to get the chants to pay for
the services that they need, and that is going to
impact the same thing in the medical world. What then
(17:10):
looks like we can do is we can now prescribe
medications to then cure this disease that we've decided as
a disease, and then we can sell these drugs more
effectively and I guess easier. It's really one of the
only ways you can sell these drugs is that they
(17:33):
are proved for this disease. I can now code this
as a disease, then I can prescribe this medication to
cure this disease. And I am not a doctor, so
I'm not going to sit here and go into the
intricacies of all this. But what I do want to say,
and I feel like a lot of you guys have
heard me say this before, is that when we do that,
we sometimes are solving a problem in the here and now,
(18:00):
while at the same time creating a lot more issues
and problems for our future. And side note, one of
the ways people diagnose somebody with obesity is with the BMI,
so we also know that's actual crap, like there's we
shouldn't be it's It is so wild to me that
that is a diagnostic tool because it means nothing. And
(18:23):
I feel fine saying this. I could be diagnosed with
obesity and I can be prescribed this medication at the
same time. Why, Like, I don't have health issues that
are directly related to my actual weight. And I would
hate if a doctor looked at me and said, oh,
you're having this problem or this is going on or
(18:44):
de da da oh, lose weight here, take this drug
and never addresses the actual issue that I'm having just
because we're looking at this thing and we have seen
over and over and over that you can both be
healthy and outside of the normal weight range that BMI
has decided for us. So I did want to go
on that tangent just to talk about why some of
(19:07):
this is so scary to me that we are blanketly
able to say, oh, you have this disease, we're going
to give you this drug. We have to look at
the underpinnings of why people might be pushing that when
we have so much research that says, I don't know
if this actually makes sense.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And also when you look at BMI, to go back
to that, it's just I tell my clients is over
and over again, of it's a grievance of diet culture
in our society. Right, So, yes, BMI came out, it's
a faulty tool. In nineteen ninety eight, the NIH even
lowered like the BMI threshold, like the categories overnight, So
(19:47):
someone went to bed that night essentially as like normal
body weight and woke up overweight right or OBEs according
to b and I all the things.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So it's just it's it's sad.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And then because you have these diagnoses, it's like, let's
fix the problem, when in reality, I see clients all
the time who are completely healthy right, meaning their lab
work is fine, they have nothing wrong with them. But
this system is always trying to find something wrong right,
and it's that's a sad piece. That's why, you know,
we talked to clients about you're literally grieving the way
that diet culture other people perceive your body. So it's
(20:19):
coming back to you know, today's talk or going through
this with you of your body, your body. Let's educate
you on this drug, the implications of everything that's come
out since, side effects, all the things.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
That could actually create more of an issue. So I'm
so glad you said that the grieving of the diet culture,
because if I was me at twenty years old, I
would not have this stance because I didn't have the
information that I had, and the information that I had
about what was wrong and right with my body was
very much rooted in diet culture. So I would say,
(20:52):
oh my gosh, I could take this drug and or
heal me from not being able to lose the weight
that my body is supposed to be at. I would
probably fall into that because the world is telling me
there's something wrong with me, when in the reality, we
have so much information that the world has not caught
up on. And I get it. I do very much
get that it's hard to change our minds when we've
(21:14):
thought something for so long. So I don't fault anybody
for having a hard time being able to change the
way they look at the way we perceive our bodies
and what is a good body and what is a
not good body, and the reality there is that doesn't exist.
But one of the reasons that I see this as
(21:35):
such a now issue and more of an issue for
our future is that it is perpetuating and creating space
for more people to develop the physical stuff I don't
even know, like the diseases and all of that, the implications,
but I just foresee this being future. We're just handing
(21:57):
out eating disorders to people. So let's get back into
just some information. Can you talk to us about what
we know about these drugs right now, what they do,
and if we know about any of their implications based
on research. Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So, currently there's two published trials that are out now.
One is only for sixty eight weeks and another is
for two years, and so that's the longest long term
outcomes we've seen, which is not a long time. So
according to both of those, you know, encircling back right,
so you have your semaglue tides which is your GOOV
and your ozempic, and then you have your Trizeppatite, which
(22:38):
is your manjero WGOV is the only one that's FDA
approved for weight loss, and then ozempic is FDA approved
for diabetes. If you're taking the weight loss dose instead
of the diabetic dose, it's actually higher than that.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Of what they give to those with diabetes.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So according to these sixty eight week into your Outcomes
side effects that have come from those in these trials,
seventeen percent of those that were taking the medications were
found to either have partially digested or not fully digested
foods in their GI tracks. It would cause essentially GI
(23:15):
pain like GI disorders, you know, essentially.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, GI pain.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
The mean weight loss with these was fifteen percent of
body weight, and so what this means is essentially most
of the weight loss occurred within one year of the
majority of these people taking or in these studies, and
then from there, when you look at the trend chart
after a year at plateaus, so say that they lost
fifteen percent of their body weight whoever is on the trial, right,
(23:42):
and then once they got to that year mark, even
for the two year long come, their weight stayed the same.
So I always tell clients if they walk into my
office and they start asking about it or they're wanting
to get on it, I always just provide the education.
This is what we know per the research, And I
always tell them, hey, per research, weight loss is about
fifteen percent, right, so that should be all that's it's expected,
(24:06):
all that's expected, yes, and then essentially such after that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay, So the things that I just heard from that
is seventy percent of if people have gi issues from
taking this drug. That seems high to me. Is that high? Okay? Yeah,
it seems very high. Then what I heard is the
average is fifteen percent of your body weights. That's how
much weight I'm going to lose. And that stops after
one year. And then what happens after two years?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So after one and a half year, per the study,
they said that they would either if they stopped taking it.
Those that stopped taking it regained started to regain the
weight back, and those that kept taking it kept off
of the fifteen percent, but didn't go much deeper. There
were a few that that slid down more, but essentially
that was the average.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, So that gives us information about how much people
can actually expect to lose on this drug. And what
I'm hearing that's even more glaring is if you do
not continue to take this drug, you will more likely
than not gain the weight back, possibly more. This sounds
exactly like what we know about diets, which is again,
(25:10):
this is just another way for people to restrict. This
is an easier way for people to restrict. However, this
is a prescribed, duh, prescribed way to restrict, So we
are prescribing people disordered eating and eating disorders at this point.
That's what it sounds like to me from my perspective,
and that again is very scary for the reasons that
(25:31):
I named already. So if you are not on this
drug for the rest of your life, you will gain
that weight back, if not more. So this is a
short term solution or long term I have to take
this drug.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, and this is what we know, right, So the
study is nearly two years. They could come out with studies,
you know, six years, ten years down the road, but
again who knows. I mean a good example from like
the whole thing with finnermin right, finfinn right. We remember
that where it came out and it was like, oh,
it's this weight loss drug. People started taking it, they
lost weight, and it took about ten years for that
drug to be on the market. For all of a sudden,
(26:05):
people started dying of cardiac arrest or had heart conditions,
you know, you name it, and then they had to
take it off of the market.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Which poses this other question. That's a huge risk, right,
So that drug was killing people. It's not on the
market anymore so much it was so dangerous. So this
is a huge risk. This is the part that I
want people to hear very loudly that there is such
(26:32):
limited information on this that I want people to know
and be aware. You can take that risk if that
feels worth it to you, Okay, process that with somebody
and take that risk. But this is a huge risk
because who's to say that we're not going to have
a similar story in ten years. It might not be
cardiac arrest, but we don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well and because of it, so not to necessarily cut
you off. So what ended up happening. Is FDA approve this,
but because in studies with rats. Now I will preface
and say we humans are not rats. But just with
the studies with rats, there was a lot of thyroid
issues and thyroid cancer that showed up, and so the
FDA because of that put a black box warning on
(27:17):
these medications because of that, and I didn't know that, Yes,
so there's a black box warning on these medications. And
to just go back to the fin Fin example, there
was no black box warning fin Fin. So black box
warning is essentially the biggest warning to put on medications
of like a oh, by the way.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
This is really dangerous. So that's their way of skirting
around that issue. It's like, well, now we're warning you
that it's at least we're warning you that it's that
could be very dangerous. See, and I will say, depending
on how a doctor is prescribing this or talking about
this with you, or what you've learned about it, that
warning might not be that important to you. Because of
(27:57):
my fear is that people are saying you you are
diagnosed with obesity and you're going to die if you
don't take this drug, when that might necessarily not be true.
That might be a fear that I'm making up just
because I'm scared of these things. But the other thing
that I'm I'm wondering is what about the people that
are just getting prescribed this drug or taking it. I
(28:17):
assume there's a way to get this drug without the
diagnosis of in quotes obesity and just paying out of
pocket for this.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yes, I do remember reading that in the US, the
average cost is about thirteen hundred a month for these medications.
And I didn't go to say this. So with some
of glue tides or the trazapatie, what it is is
essentially it's a once a week shot and that you
have to take. And so people will go in and
they'll pay for it monthly, they'll pay for it weekly,
they'll pay for it per shot, just kind of depending,
(28:47):
and that's about thirteen hundred a month for these out
of pocket. A lot of places called compound pharmacies will
do these where essentially they're putting in, you know, extra
things like electrolytes or something like that that you know,
you can get these off market or off brand or.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
And that's not FDA approved. The compound drugs aren't correct. Okay,
what's also scary. Second side note is the people that
are just going just to lose weight just for body
image reasons. It's actually not even because a doctor said
you have this disease and da da da da. It's
because diet culture has told us that there's something wrong
(29:24):
with you and you can fix it. That's really scary
that we would take this big of a risk, and
it actually that's the grieving where I feel really sad
that we're at a place. And again, at twenty years old,
I would have been there as well, so I get
it and I understand how we got there. But it
is a call I think for all of us listening.
(29:47):
Maybe we aren't struggling with this, but we have friends
that are, and we're in conversations and we see I
don't know how many TikTok videos I've seen about ozempic,
And I mean, I was listening to an episode of
My Guilty Pleasures Caller Daddy listen to an episode a
while ago with Chelsea Handler, and she made a joke
about I guess she got prescribed a zempic and she's like,
(30:07):
I don't use it, so I just give it out
to my friends, which I don't even know if that's
I don't know if she was joking, but like also
like that's not funny. And what you're going to give
somebody a drug that has a black box warning on it.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It is crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Like it it's grieving with our clients of just diet culture,
like the idea that BMI was made for a very
obscure reason and then we've changed the boundaries of BMI
and then that's the main thing that insurance looks at,
you know, whenever we do anything. And so then you're
prescribed quote unquote obesity overweight and then because of that,
(30:45):
medical providers were told, oh, that's an issue with health.
So here's these medications finn finn ozempic will go you know,
you name it, and we just don't know the implications
of these. I mean, it's been on the market for
two plus years and we've got all these you know,
research articles out, but there's lots of more there's more
side effects negatively than there are positive and you essentially,
(31:08):
at the end of the day, like a diet, you
have to stay on it long term. Again, no judgment
for those that want to take it, it's just giving
people the research. I mean, I've got clients now who
are on it because that's their decision, but it's coming
from a place of me educating them and saying, Okay,
what it's doing is it's just causing you less hunger
cues or not feeling hunger, But it doesn't mean that
(31:29):
your body doesn't still need food, which is a lot of.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Times what I preach.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So it's like we're I'm I'm educating you to eat
consistently throughout the day and eat what your body needs.
But it's literally going against the medication because we've got
to listen to our body, and our body needs to
be fed and fueled to function. The majority of our
hormones are made in our gut, which then triggers to
a brain function. So if we're not feeding our body,
we're not feeding our brain, we're not feeding our gut.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Then we can't make those decisions that you're if. It's
almost like they can't take the information in that you're saying, okay,
if you let's take this medication but know that you
still need to eat, well, we can't even use our
brains fully to comprehend that and remind ourselves that because
we are functioning at a lower level because we are
already not eating because of this medication. It's a cycle,
(32:15):
and then the cycle continues if you do come off
of this medication. And I've seen this with clients, and
this is where a lot of my sadness comes from,
is when they do come off of these medications, they
in quotes fixed this problem, and then the anxiety and
the fear and the emotion that is built in, the
stress that is built around having to maintain that when
(32:37):
actually that medication works against you. If you don't take it,
you're not built to be able to maintain that because
you lost the weight by eating less than you're supposed
to be eating. That is just a recipe for a
continued struggle with our physical health, our mental health, our
spiritual health, our relationships. I mean, it is a rest
(33:00):
for the development of a full fledged eating disorder. Again,
I know we're saying. I'm saying you get to make
whatever decision you want. I just want people to know
the risks and then compare that to the benefit. You
get to choose if that benefit is worth all those risks,
because we've all done that in our lives. I've made
pro con lists for things and been like well, there's
(33:22):
a lot of shitty things that could happen from this,
but there's one thing that I think is really cool
that could happen. So I'm going to take this risk.
We've all done that. I just want us to actually
be prepared and aware enough to be able to make
the lists accurately.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Absolutely, and yeah, and to piggyback that right, your body,
your body, like it's not mine or Cat's decision to
understand or to tell you what to do with your
decisions on your body.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
It's just again the education piece.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And like like I said, I see it time and
time again of clients coming in wanting to take it,
thinking that I'm going to take this medication and I'm
going to lose fat cells where I want to lose
fat cells, and it's like that, that's not how this works, right,
It's more of a it's mimicking a process in your
body to delay your stomach emptying because it's releasing more insulin,
and in turn, it's just messing up or interfering with
(34:14):
other hormones in our body, the like our grellin and
our leptin which is our hunger and fullness like hormones.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
And so we're just we're not feeling hunger cues.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
We're not eating right when in reality, like your body
still needs to be fed even if you don't feel
those cues.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Well, I could keep going, but I think we've covered
what I what I wanted to cover. Again, if you
guys have questions, if anything was unclear to you, you
can reach out to us and we can answer one
of those questions on a couch talks. I also would
highly highly encourage you to reach out to your own providers,
(34:49):
whether that is a therapist that you have or if
you have a dietician or your own doctor, and ask
the questions. Ask all of the questions, because I know
that I've been in places where I'm I feel so
uneducated that I feel dumb even asking a question. And
in the reality, when it's something that you're taking that's
(35:10):
going to affect your body, when the rally is anything
but especially this, there's no dumb question. And the general
population we don't go through the education to understand all
of this stuff. And so if we want more clarification
on something that's going to affect our health, it is
our right and our prerogative to ask those questions. So ask, ask, Ask, ask,
(35:34):
ask until you understand, and if you don't understand, that
means there's more questions to ask. Love it. Okay, Well,
thank you for being here. Jamison. Is there any way
if people want to get in touch with you, how
do you want them to do that?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, so they can also email me as well or
email my business. So it's info Atworly Nutritiongroup dot com.
We've got a website really Nutrition Group ww dot Worly
Nutrition Group dot com and I'm happy to answer any questions. Again,
I'm not an expert on drugs, medications, anything like that,
but at least to go through the data of what's
recently been out and I see it all the time
(36:08):
in my office. I'm really glad that you asked me
to be here today to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Of course, and if you want to follow along the podcast,
you can on Instagram at you Need Therapy Podcasts and
I am at Kat dot Defada. Again, questions you can
send to Jamison. You can also send a Catherine at
Unied Therapy podcast. I will link all of the things
that Jamison just said in our show notes and if
there's anything that Jamison recommends that's good information, along with
(36:36):
articles that might help explain some of this stuff. I
can put those in there as well, so you have
access to more information that we can trust. That's going
to do it for today until Wednesday for couch talks.
I hope you guys have the day you need to
have and see you later fight MM
Coming up on you need therapy.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
I see it time and time again of clients coming
in wanting to take it, thinking that I'm going to
take this medication and I'm going to lose fat cells
where I want to lose fat cells. And it's like that,
that's not how this works, right. It's more of a
it's mimicking a process in your body to delay our
stomach emptying because it's releasing more insulin, and in turn,
it's just messing up or interfering with other hormones in
(00:25):
our body, the like our grellin and our leptin, which
is our hunger and fullness like hormones, and so we're.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Just we're not feeling hunger cues, we're not eating.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I started to realize that not being an expert isn't
a liability, it's a real gift.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
If we don't know something about ourselves at this point
in our life.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
It's probably because it's uncomfortable to know.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
If you can die before you die, then you can
really live. There's a wisdom at death's door.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I thought I was insane, yeah, and I didn't know
what to do because there was no internet.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I don't know, and I'm like, I feel like everything
is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat. I'm a
human first and a licensed therapist second, and right now
I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope encourage you
to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,
(01:19):
and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of You
Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat and I am
the host. If you are new to the podcast, I
like to give a little disclaimer at the top of
every episode that just reminds everybody that I although this
(01:39):
podcast is called You Need Therapy and it's hosted by
a licensed therapist, it is not a substitute or a
replacement for any actual mental health services. And today we
are talking about a very controversial topic that has a
lot to do with things that I am actually not
(02:01):
It is not my wheelhouse. So I have brought in
one of my oldest friends I think I've known you
since sixth or seventh grade to talk about this from
her perspective, because she actually does have the education in
the background to be able to speak on the things
that we're talking about. And I know you're on the
edge of your toes. What is it that you're going
to be talking about? And who is it that is
(02:22):
sitting there with you ready to talk about this? Because
you probably haven't read the title, which I like to
keep people waiting. I'm like, they know what I'm about
to talk about because the title says it. Anyway, we're
talking about ozepic today, a topic that I actually have
tried to stay a little away from when it comes
to this podcast, specifically because what I just said, I'm
(02:43):
not the expert on this and I can't be the
expert because this is not where my education lies. But
I do know people that are credible sources to talk
about this, one being Jamison Whorley, who I always want
to call you, Jamison Stewart. Still you're still on my phone,
is Jamison Stewart.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
It's cool you're.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Let's say yes, but like you don't.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Just it's hard to change.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
All of our little high school friends are like that
for me.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So Jameson is a dietitian. She's a registered dietitian and
a license dietitian in Tennessee, and she is going to
talk us through some of the hot topics that have
to do with this very popular drug right now called ozempic.
(03:29):
You might not totally understand some of these words, and
it almost is like I have to go look up
the definition to understand the definition of another definition. That's
how I feel sometimes with this. So we're going to
try to make this easy for you to digest. I'm
going to say this again later, but if you do
have any questions, if any questions come up while we're
talking about this, send them to me Katherine at UNIU
(03:51):
Therapy podcast dot com and we will try to answer
those as best we can on possibly a couch Talks episode.
One more thing before where we get into the juice
of this is we are here to offer you information
from a place of total non judgment. And most of
you guys know this from listening to past episodes. My
(04:13):
goal is to help people make more informed decisions for themselves.
My goal is never to make a decision for somebody else.
It is to help somebody figure out what they need
versus me tell them. And this is one of those spaces.
And I really want you to hear that because I
don't want anybody to ever feel shamed by any of
the information we talk about on here and as you
(04:35):
guys know, everything is nuanced, so there is not a
blanket answer that there's one thing that's right for everybody
and one thing that's wrong. We are just talking about
what we know about a drug that is very popular
right now. Now, I do realize that I have not
let Jamison say hi, so hello and welcome. Hi. Is
(04:59):
there any the thing you want people to know as
well from your perspective before we get into some of this.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, I mean I'm in the same space one. I'm
so pumped to be here today. Like Catherine said, I
have known this girl since middle school, back in the
day of limited to and dealing. Yes, so I'm really
excited and it's fun to be in the same space,
you know, at least, you know, graduate to the space
where we both are. I think a big thing is
is like she asked me to, you know, talk about
(05:26):
this and be on this podcast, and pumped to talk
about it because I see it so much in my practice.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Am I an expert?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
No?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
But is my job to help educate clients? Yes, So
I'm hoping that that's what today is. And like Catherine said,
I'm hoping that like today, as I mentioned that, we're
just giving you, guys, education so that you can make
informed choices for your bodies and not feel judgment by
any of it. You know, to each their own your body,
your body, and that's why I always preached my clients.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
And one thing that I've heard and seen from some
of the stuff on the internet right now is is
and this is what if you're pro this drug or
what's the opposite of pro con con this drug against.
I'm not encouraging anybody to take what we're saying and
then solely make a medical decision based off of that.
(06:16):
This is parts of the puzzle. And because we don't
know you specifically in your story and all that, I
do want you to again take that nuance into consideration
as we go. Take the pieces that fit and make
sense to you, talk to people, your providers about them,
ask the questions to them, and then do what you
(06:36):
need to do. Okay, Okay, so we're going to get
into it. If you are not aware of what ozempic is,
then one that is crazy at this point because I
feel like, and maybe it's because I'm in this field,
I feel like every time I turn I'm seeing an
article or a podcast or something talking about this drug
(06:58):
or the drugs in the cagory that we're going to
talk about. So can you tell us what ozempic is,
what semi glue tide is, and all the things that
are in that.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So start by beginning. I kind of got introduced to
this drug a couple of years ago. One of the
things that I see a lot is diabetes, and so
I ozempic started coming up in my practice a lot,
you know, with people who were type two diabetic who
needed it, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
And I'll get into what that means.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
So the ones that you've heard, so that we have
semaglue tides and we have ter zeppeitide.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
So semaglue tide.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Is our withgov and our ozempic, so a zimpic has
been FDA approved for diabetes diabetes only and per research
and everything. Basically, providers started to see that the way
that these drugs were working weight loss was also happening.
So basically you have semaglue tides, which is with govy
and ozempic and both of those are from Novodortis, which
(07:49):
is a pharmaceutical company. And then you have tterzepetides, which
is Manjaro, and that's from Eli Lilly.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
What is Eli Lilly. It's a pharmaceutical company.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So these drugs are geop one agonis, so they mimic
the action of a hormone called glucagon like peptid one,
which is the gop one. When blood sugar levels rise
in our body. Right, So when we eat something or
we naturally produce blood sugars, then our body releases insulin.
(08:19):
So this gop one mimics insulin in our body, which
essentially helps to lower the blood sugar levels in our body.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
We need insulin, right, Okay, So these medications are creating
or mimicking or increasing the production of insulin, yes okay.
And that is pulling sugar out of our blood, yes okay,
so and putting it where it's supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Yes, So think of it as our body is run
by hormones, right. Insulin's a hormone, Grellin's a hormone, leptins
a hormone.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Those are our hunger fullness cues for our brain.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So when you're adding in something that's mimicking a hormone
or our hormonal balance.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Gets a little wonky.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Right, And so with these it's mimicking that insulin response
by increasing more insulin in our body that's triggering. If
we're not diabetic or have too much blood sugar in
our system, then it's going to turn to weight loss.
And that's like that starvation mode piece that comes with
that too.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Doesn't make more sense.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
So I want to clarify. If you have type two
diabetes or maybe type one ors are just type two okay, okay,
type two diabetes, this can actually be very very helpful
and necessary because your body doesn't naturally produce enough of
something that it needs to actually survive. Okay. If you
don't have that, then you are adding in something that
(09:51):
you don't actually need, and that is going to create
an imbalance in how your body produces and regulates its hormones. Right,
And a side effect of this drug not its intent,
but the side effect of this drug is weight loss.
So now this drug is being prescribed for its side effect, right, Okay.
(10:14):
And my question would be this might not be a
question you can really answer, is if I am taking
a drug that creates some kind of imbalance in my
system that I don't actually need, would there be side
effects in other parts of my body? Like, yeah, I
might lose weight, but am I going to be affected
in other areas? If I am taking a drug that
(10:44):
creates some kind of imbalance in my system that I
don't actually need, would there be side effects in other
parts of my body? Like, yeah, I might lose weight,
but am I going to be affected in other areas? Yes?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So that goes down to kind of the over response
of starvation mode.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Right, So I tell my clients.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
A lot that is starvation mode for people that don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
So, starvation mode essentially is when our bodies naturally need
a baseline amount of energy to survive. So that's if
you were sleeping in the middle of the night, right,
you're not doing much but breathing whatever, So you're burning
energy just to keep your body alive. So if we're
not reaching that baseline amount of energy calthories, fuel, you
call it whatever you want, then our body gets into
(11:27):
starvation mode, which in turn is fight or flight mode.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
So it's the same response if a bear is chasing
you down the street, right, You're not going to be
you can't make rational decisions. Your only thing is trying
to get away. The first thing that your body does
in that or The first two things is it holds
on too fat, no matter how little or how much
we have of it, because fat in our body is
the one macronutrient that our body deems is essential. Right,
It's not going to be like, oh, okay, I'm getting
(11:54):
chased down the street from a bear, so I'm going
to lose a bunch of fat in my love handle,
my thigh, my arm, you name it right, Like it's
it's essentially holding on to all of that because it
needs it. Right, fat is like the one cushion for
all of our organs, our bodies responses. It's our secondary
fuel source.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Wait, I just want to stop you there, because I
think that could be very really helpful for people to
hear that it is something that our body recognizes as essential.
Yet we are taught and told over and over it's
bad and wrong and gross and icky and get it
away totally, and people don't understand that the fat in
your body has a very large job to do. So, okay,
(12:36):
that's very helpful. So in starvation mode, it's going to
hold onto fat and then what else?
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Yeah, And the second thing is it releases cortisol, which
is our stress hormone, and so that's something that's supposed
to be really quick, right, it's a fleeting response. We're
supposed to feel stressed or that you know that piece
because it's like we're in fight or flight. We need
to make those like whatever rational decision or irrational decision
in that mode to get out of fight or flight.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Because and your in starvation mode. Your body's number one
goal is to stay alive totally, okay, So if my
number one goal is to stay alive, what am I
not paying attention.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
To everything else going on everybody?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And that's why I think when we're talking about restriction
when it comes to eating disorders, it's so interesting the
conversations I get to have with clients about, Okay, you
think that you're out here just like living your life
and doing everything you need do the way you need
to do it. But you don't realize is your body
is making decisions based on necessity without you even knowing it.
(13:34):
So that's why things happen like oh, your hair's falling out,
or you have brain fog and you can't recall words,
or you can't remember things, because it's not trying to
listen to that lecture that you're sitting in in the
middle of your college whatever. It's trying to make sure
that you can still breathe, and you can your organs
(13:54):
are still working, that your heart is pumping. So that's
what it's focused on versus all of these other things.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, And I think to preface too, right, like, we
see it because we work with this population, or we
work with a population that has a very you know,
conshrewd sense of body and self right and food habits
or exercise or you know, body image, all the things,
and so it's sad and we grieve what our clients
are going through. So we see something like this come
(14:21):
on the market that's essentially another diet, it's just it's
hard to see.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I feel like we've kind of glazed over this. It's
a diet in the sense that what's happening when you're
taking this drug, especially when you are not being prescribed
for this for diabetes, is this drug is suppressing your appetite,
which I was very surprised to find out when I
first heard about it. I assumed, I'm like, what is
(14:47):
this doing to rev up people's metabolism? Like how is this?
I was so curious and to hear it was just
an appetite suppressant. That's why we're talking about starvation mode.
Is what is happening is you're taking this drug and
then you're not getting hungry, or you're not getting hungry,
or you're, like you said earlier, like your fullness and
(15:07):
your satiety cues, you're hunger. All that's getting jumbled up.
And so this is just a way for people to
restrict easier. It's a it's almost like a potion to
restrict easier because you don't have to fight against that
urge to eat when our urge to eat is a
(15:31):
thing that we need to keep this alive.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I don't know if we clarified this, but semi glue
tide is the active drug that's in these other medication
that's in mogov and ozempic. Correct, So that's why you're
hearing all of those different things. So a zempic is
approved for type two diabetes and then wegov is FDA
proved for weight loss. I find this very interesting. So
(15:58):
in my opinion, this is an opinion. My thoughts on
drugs being approved for weight loss comes from the determination
that obesity is a disease. And what I was also
very surprised and sad to find out is that obesity
was decided to be a disease based on a vote,
(16:22):
not actual hard evidence that was found. And we learned
this in the episode that I did with Leslie's Shilling
a couple of weeks ago. If you haven't listened to that,
I highly recommend it. She talks a lot about diet
culture and how it's everywhere, even in the safe places,
and when something can be defined as a disease, what
happens is we can code that when we are filling
(16:47):
out paperwork for insurance companies, So I mean I have
codes that I use for mental health disorders, and by
being able to diagnose a client, they are more likely
to be able to get the chants to pay for
the services that they need, and that is going to
impact the same thing in the medical world. What then
(17:10):
looks like we can do is we can now prescribe
medications to then cure this disease that we've decided as
a disease, and then we can sell these drugs more
effectively and I guess easier. It's really one of the
only ways you can sell these drugs is that they
(17:33):
are proved for this disease. I can now code this
as a disease, then I can prescribe this medication to
cure this disease. And I am not a doctor, so
I'm not going to sit here and go into the
intricacies of all this. But what I do want to say,
and I feel like a lot of you guys have
heard me say this before, is that when we do that,
we sometimes are solving a problem in the here and now,
(18:00):
while at the same time creating a lot more issues
and problems for our future. And side note, one of
the ways people diagnose somebody with obesity is with the BMI,
so we also know that's actual crap, like there's we
shouldn't be it's It is so wild to me that
that is a diagnostic tool because it means nothing. And
(18:23):
I feel fine saying this. I could be diagnosed with
obesity and I can be prescribed this medication at the
same time. Why, Like, I don't have health issues that
are directly related to my actual weight. And I would
hate if a doctor looked at me and said, oh,
you're having this problem or this is going on or
(18:44):
de da da oh, lose weight here, take this drug
and never addresses the actual issue that I'm having just
because we're looking at this thing and we have seen
over and over and over that you can both be
healthy and outside of the normal weight range that BMI
has decided for us. So I did want to go
on that tangent just to talk about why some of
(19:07):
this is so scary to me that we are blanketly
able to say, oh, you have this disease, we're going
to give you this drug. We have to look at
the underpinnings of why people might be pushing that when
we have so much research that says, I don't know
if this actually makes sense.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
I absolutely agree.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
And also when you look at BMI, to go back
to that, it's just I tell my clients is over
and over again, of it's a grievance of diet culture
in our society. Right, So, yes, BMI came out, it's
a faulty tool. In nineteen ninety eight, the NIH even
lowered like the BMI threshold, like the categories overnight, So
(19:47):
someone went to bed that night essentially as like normal
body weight and woke up overweight right or OBEs according
to b and I all the things.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
So it's just it's it's sad.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
And then because you have these diagnoses, it's like, let's
fix the problem, when in reality, I see clients all
the time who are completely healthy right, meaning their lab
work is fine, they have nothing wrong with them. But
this system is always trying to find something wrong right,
and it's that's a sad piece. That's why, you know,
we talked to clients about you're literally grieving the way
that diet culture other people perceive your body. So it's
(20:19):
coming back to you know, today's talk or going through
this with you of your body, your body. Let's educate
you on this drug, the implications of everything that's come
out since, side effects, all the things.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
That could actually create more of an issue. So I'm
so glad you said that the grieving of the diet culture,
because if I was me at twenty years old, I
would not have this stance because I didn't have the
information that I had, and the information that I had
about what was wrong and right with my body was
very much rooted in diet culture. So I would say,
(20:52):
oh my gosh, I could take this drug and or
heal me from not being able to lose the weight
that my body is supposed to be at. I would
probably fall into that because the world is telling me
there's something wrong with me, when in the reality, we
have so much information that the world has not caught
up on. And I get it. I do very much
get that it's hard to change our minds when we've
(21:14):
thought something for so long. So I don't fault anybody
for having a hard time being able to change the
way they look at the way we perceive our bodies
and what is a good body and what is a
not good body, and the reality there is that doesn't exist.
But one of the reasons that I see this as
(21:35):
such a now issue and more of an issue for
our future is that it is perpetuating and creating space
for more people to develop the physical stuff I don't
even know, like the diseases and all of that, the implications,
but I just foresee this being future. We're just handing
(21:57):
out eating disorders to people. So let's get back into
just some information. Can you talk to us about what
we know about these drugs right now, what they do,
and if we know about any of their implications based
on research. Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
So, currently there's two published trials that are out now.
One is only for sixty eight weeks and another is
for two years, and so that's the longest long term
outcomes we've seen, which is not a long time. So
according to both of those, you know, encircling back right,
so you have your semaglue tides which is your GOOV
and your ozempic, and then you have your Trizeppatite, which
(22:38):
is your manjero WGOV is the only one that's FDA
approved for weight loss, and then ozempic is FDA approved
for diabetes. If you're taking the weight loss dose instead
of the diabetic dose, it's actually higher than that.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Of what they give to those with diabetes.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
So according to these sixty eight week into your Outcomes
side effects that have come from those in these trials,
seventeen percent of those that were taking the medications were
found to either have partially digested or not fully digested
foods in their GI tracks. It would cause essentially GI
(23:15):
pain like GI disorders, you know, essentially.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Yeah, GI pain.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
The mean weight loss with these was fifteen percent of
body weight, and so what this means is essentially most
of the weight loss occurred within one year of the
majority of these people taking or in these studies, and
then from there, when you look at the trend chart
after a year at plateaus, so say that they lost
fifteen percent of their body weight whoever is on the trial, right,
(23:42):
and then once they got to that year mark, even
for the two year long come, their weight stayed the same.
So I always tell clients if they walk into my
office and they start asking about it or they're wanting
to get on it, I always just provide the education.
This is what we know per the research, And I
always tell them, hey, per research, weight loss is about
fifteen percent, right, so that should be all that's it's expected,
(24:06):
all that's expected, yes, and then essentially such after that.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Okay, So the things that I just heard from that
is seventy percent of if people have gi issues from
taking this drug. That seems high to me. Is that high? Okay? Yeah,
it seems very high. Then what I heard is the
average is fifteen percent of your body weights. That's how
much weight I'm going to lose. And that stops after
one year. And then what happens after two years?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
So after one and a half year, per the study,
they said that they would either if they stopped taking it.
Those that stopped taking it regained started to regain the
weight back, and those that kept taking it kept off
of the fifteen percent, but didn't go much deeper. There
were a few that that slid down more, but essentially
that was the average.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, So that gives us information about how much people
can actually expect to lose on this drug. And what
I'm hearing that's even more glaring is if you do
not continue to take this drug, you will more likely
than not gain the weight back, possibly more. This sounds
exactly like what we know about diets, which is again,
(25:10):
this is just another way for people to restrict. This
is an easier way for people to restrict. However, this
is a prescribed, duh, prescribed way to restrict, So we
are prescribing people disordered eating and eating disorders at this point.
That's what it sounds like to me from my perspective,
and that again is very scary for the reasons that
(25:31):
I named already. So if you are not on this
drug for the rest of your life, you will gain
that weight back, if not more. So this is a
short term solution or long term I have to take
this drug.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well, and this is what we know, right, So the
study is nearly two years. They could come out with studies,
you know, six years, ten years down the road, but
again who knows. I mean a good example from like
the whole thing with finnermin right, finfinn right. We remember
that where it came out and it was like, oh,
it's this weight loss drug. People started taking it, they
lost weight, and it took about ten years for that
drug to be on the market. For all of a sudden,
(26:05):
people started dying of cardiac arrest or had heart conditions,
you know, you name it, and then they had to
take it off of the market.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Which poses this other question. That's a huge risk, right,
So that drug was killing people. It's not on the
market anymore so much it was so dangerous. So this
is a huge risk. This is the part that I
want people to hear very loudly that there is such
(26:32):
limited information on this that I want people to know
and be aware. You can take that risk if that
feels worth it to you, Okay, process that with somebody
and take that risk. But this is a huge risk
because who's to say that we're not going to have
a similar story in ten years. It might not be
cardiac arrest, but we don't know.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Well and because of it, so not to necessarily cut
you off. So what ended up happening. Is FDA approve this,
but because in studies with rats. Now I will preface
and say we humans are not rats. But just with
the studies with rats, there was a lot of thyroid
issues and thyroid cancer that showed up, and so the
FDA because of that put a black box warning on
(27:17):
these medications because of that, and I didn't know that, Yes,
so there's a black box warning on these medications. And
to just go back to the fin Fin example, there
was no black box warning fin Fin. So black box
warning is essentially the biggest warning to put on medications
of like a oh, by the way.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
This is really dangerous. So that's their way of skirting
around that issue. It's like, well, now we're warning you
that it's at least we're warning you that it's that
could be very dangerous. See, and I will say, depending
on how a doctor is prescribing this or talking about
this with you, or what you've learned about it, that
warning might not be that important to you. Because of
(27:57):
my fear is that people are saying you you are
diagnosed with obesity and you're going to die if you
don't take this drug, when that might necessarily not be true.
That might be a fear that I'm making up just
because I'm scared of these things. But the other thing
that I'm I'm wondering is what about the people that
are just getting prescribed this drug or taking it. I
(28:17):
assume there's a way to get this drug without the
diagnosis of in quotes obesity and just paying out of
pocket for this.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yes, I do remember reading that in the US, the
average cost is about thirteen hundred a month for these medications.
And I didn't go to say this. So with some
of glue tides or the trazapatie, what it is is
essentially it's a once a week shot and that you
have to take. And so people will go in and
they'll pay for it monthly, they'll pay for it weekly,
they'll pay for it per shot, just kind of depending,
(28:47):
and that's about thirteen hundred a month for these out
of pocket. A lot of places called compound pharmacies will
do these where essentially they're putting in, you know, extra
things like electrolytes or something like that that you know,
you can get these off market or off brand or.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
And that's not FDA approved. The compound drugs aren't correct. Okay,
what's also scary. Second side note is the people that
are just going just to lose weight just for body
image reasons. It's actually not even because a doctor said
you have this disease and da da da da. It's
because diet culture has told us that there's something wrong
(29:24):
with you and you can fix it. That's really scary
that we would take this big of a risk, and
it actually that's the grieving where I feel really sad
that we're at a place. And again, at twenty years old,
I would have been there as well, so I get
it and I understand how we got there. But it
is a call I think for all of us listening.
(29:47):
Maybe we aren't struggling with this, but we have friends
that are, and we're in conversations and we see I
don't know how many TikTok videos I've seen about ozempic,
And I mean, I was listening to an episode of
My Guilty Pleasures Caller Daddy listen to an episode a
while ago with Chelsea Handler, and she made a joke
about I guess she got prescribed a zempic and she's like,
(30:07):
I don't use it, so I just give it out
to my friends, which I don't even know if that's
I don't know if she was joking, but like also
like that's not funny. And what you're going to give
somebody a drug that has a black box warning on it.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
It's crazy.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
It is crazy.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Like it it's grieving with our clients of just diet culture,
like the idea that BMI was made for a very
obscure reason and then we've changed the boundaries of BMI
and then that's the main thing that insurance looks at,
you know, whenever we do anything. And so then you're
prescribed quote unquote obesity overweight and then because of that,
(30:45):
medical providers were told, oh, that's an issue with health.
So here's these medications finn finn ozempic will go you know,
you name it, and we just don't know the implications
of these. I mean, it's been on the market for
two plus years and we've got all these you know,
research articles out, but there's lots of more there's more
side effects negatively than there are positive and you essentially,
(31:08):
at the end of the day, like a diet, you
have to stay on it long term. Again, no judgment
for those that want to take it, it's just giving
people the research. I mean, I've got clients now who
are on it because that's their decision, but it's coming
from a place of me educating them and saying, Okay,
what it's doing is it's just causing you less hunger
cues or not feeling hunger, But it doesn't mean that
(31:29):
your body doesn't still need food, which is a lot of.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
Times what I preach.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So it's like we're I'm I'm educating you to eat
consistently throughout the day and eat what your body needs.
But it's literally going against the medication because we've got
to listen to our body, and our body needs to
be fed and fueled to function. The majority of our
hormones are made in our gut, which then triggers to
a brain function. So if we're not feeding our body,
we're not feeding our brain, we're not feeding our gut.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Then we can't make those decisions that you're if. It's
almost like they can't take the information in that you're saying, okay,
if you let's take this medication but know that you
still need to eat, well, we can't even use our
brains fully to comprehend that and remind ourselves that because
we are functioning at a lower level because we are
already not eating because of this medication. It's a cycle,
(32:15):
and then the cycle continues if you do come off
of this medication. And I've seen this with clients, and
this is where a lot of my sadness comes from,
is when they do come off of these medications, they
in quotes fixed this problem, and then the anxiety and
the fear and the emotion that is built in, the
stress that is built around having to maintain that when
(32:37):
actually that medication works against you. If you don't take it,
you're not built to be able to maintain that because
you lost the weight by eating less than you're supposed
to be eating. That is just a recipe for a
continued struggle with our physical health, our mental health, our
spiritual health, our relationships. I mean, it is a rest
(33:00):
for the development of a full fledged eating disorder. Again,
I know we're saying. I'm saying you get to make
whatever decision you want. I just want people to know
the risks and then compare that to the benefit. You
get to choose if that benefit is worth all those risks,
because we've all done that in our lives. I've made
pro con lists for things and been like well, there's
(33:22):
a lot of shitty things that could happen from this,
but there's one thing that I think is really cool
that could happen. So I'm going to take this risk.
We've all done that. I just want us to actually
be prepared and aware enough to be able to make
the lists accurately.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Absolutely, and yeah, and to piggyback that right, your body,
your body, like it's not mine or Cat's decision to
understand or to tell you what to do with your
decisions on your body.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
It's just again the education piece.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
And like like I said, I see it time and
time again of clients coming in wanting to take it,
thinking that I'm going to take this medication and I'm
going to lose fat cells where I want to lose
fat cells, and it's like that, that's not how this works, right,
It's more of a it's mimicking a process in your
body to delay your stomach emptying because it's releasing more insulin,
and in turn, it's just messing up or interfering with
(34:14):
other hormones in our body, the like our grellin and
our leptin which is our hunger and fullness like hormones.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
And so we're just we're not feeling hunger cues.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
We're not eating right when in reality, like your body
still needs to be fed even if you don't feel
those cues.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Well, I could keep going, but I think we've covered
what I what I wanted to cover. Again, if you
guys have questions, if anything was unclear to you, you
can reach out to us and we can answer one
of those questions on a couch talks. I also would
highly highly encourage you to reach out to your own providers,
(34:49):
whether that is a therapist that you have or if
you have a dietician or your own doctor, and ask
the questions. Ask all of the questions, because I know
that I've been in places where I'm I feel so
uneducated that I feel dumb even asking a question. And
in the reality, when it's something that you're taking that's
(35:10):
going to affect your body, when the rally is anything
but especially this, there's no dumb question. And the general
population we don't go through the education to understand all
of this stuff. And so if we want more clarification
on something that's going to affect our health, it is
our right and our prerogative to ask those questions. So ask, ask, Ask, ask,
(35:34):
ask until you understand, and if you don't understand, that
means there's more questions to ask. Love it. Okay, Well,
thank you for being here. Jamison. Is there any way
if people want to get in touch with you, how
do you want them to do that?
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, so they can also email me as well or
email my business. So it's info Atworly Nutritiongroup dot com.
We've got a website really Nutrition Group ww dot Worly
Nutrition Group dot com and I'm happy to answer any questions. Again,
I'm not an expert on drugs, medications, anything like that,
but at least to go through the data of what's
recently been out and I see it all the time
(36:08):
in my office. I'm really glad that you asked me
to be here today to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Of course, and if you want to follow along the podcast,
you can on Instagram at you Need Therapy Podcasts and
I am at Kat dot Defada. Again, questions you can
send to Jamison. You can also send a Catherine at
Unied Therapy podcast. I will link all of the things
that Jamison just said in our show notes and if
there's anything that Jamison recommends that's good information, along with
(36:36):
articles that might help explain some of this stuff. I
can put those in there as well, so you have
access to more information that we can trust. That's going
to do it for today until Wednesday for couch talks.
I hope you guys have the day you need to
have and see you later fight MM
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