May 10, 2021 • 32 mins
Ever feel like there is something wrong with you because you can't figure out that one great passion that lights your soul on fire? Or do you find yourself feeling directionless and purposeless as you walk in and out of work each day? Well, this week, Kat, (@kat.defatta) is taking us down a road that many drive around in circles inside our heads. She is talking about passion and purpose and how we can confuse them sometimes and also put too much emphasis on one or the other. She also shares her take aways from one of the very best podcasts she has ever listened to. It was an Oprah Super Soul Conversation with Elizabeth Gilbert and she brings in a third contender to the passion & purpose conversation... curiosity. Listen this week to find out why this may just be the secret we have all been looking for in our lives.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of You
Need Therapy. My name is Cat. I'm so glad you're here.
As always if you're new, I am a therapist, a
licensed therapist. I live in Nashville and have a private
practice and started this little podcast to just, you know,
start some conversations about some some tough things that we
(00:30):
don't usually talk about and to encourage people to dig
deep into their lives. And with that, I always like
to remind you guys that this here today, right now,
me talking to you is not therapy. I'm a big
proponent of therapy and champion of therapy obviously because I'm
a therapist, but this isn't therapy. This is just therapist
(00:50):
talking to you about some things that I care about.
And with that, today or this month, May is mental
health Awareness month, and of course I found myself thinking
to myself, what am I going to do in order
to highlight this? How can I do a special episode
dedicated to mental health awareness? Then I remembered that's literally
(01:14):
just what I do all the time, like every week,
And so I'm so grateful for all of the people
in the world who are putting out some mental health
specific content to highlight this month and what it stands
for and bring light to, you know, a big part
of our world and our lives. But I realized that
(01:35):
I don't really have to do anything special because we
just that's just what we do here. So I'm glad
to be able to always be doing that. And I
do have some specific things that I'm excited to talk
about this month today being one of those things. But
I don't know. I could have done this at any
any month, which I think is pretty cool regardless, Happy
Mental Health Awareness Month. Also, I would just like to
(01:56):
say I really, really, honestly have love taking a little
break from not that I don't like having guests on
the show. I obviously I love it. I love talking
to people about this stuff. But it's been nice to
take a little break from from the more interviews with
guests and spend someone on one time with you guys.
There are so many things I always want to talk about.
(02:16):
I have a running list of episodes, and sometimes I
wish I could put out four episodes in a week. Actually,
I just get really excited about the episodes. I don't
really want to put out four in a week because
that is a lot of work and that might overload
you guys. But like I said, I have a list
of conversations I'm trying to have with myself for the podcast,
and definitely the one I'm about to dive into has
been really trying to make its debut for a long
(02:39):
time and doing episodes like this. It's really fun and
I love it. It's also very scary because it allows
a lot more space for me, my own personal thoughts
and sometimes some of my story to show and come through,
which I love. But it's also like, ah, you know,
doing the whole vulnerability thing is hard, So I'm in
(03:00):
that with you guys. So today I keep saying, like,
what we're gonna talk about? What we're gonna talk about,
which I guess you know because you've probably have read
the title, But today we're going to talk about something
that is kind of it is it's hard to talk
about for multiple reasons. One because it's a little intangible
and it is scary. And what we're going to talk
about is passion and purpose. So without any more of
(03:22):
me just talking in circles, let's get into it. So
what a topic? What a freaking topic? And just so
we're clear from the very beginning. This is gonna be
in no way, shape or form a how to guide um.
That's not my goal today. I'm not a motivational speaker.
I am just a human who likes to talk about
(03:44):
hard things. I do love motivational speakers. More on that
end a bit, though, But just wanted to be clear
that my goal is not to teach you how to
find your purpose and passion. We're just going to start
to talk about what that is. So I really do
talk about purpose and finding passion in my office with
clients a lot, which tells me that it is something
(04:05):
that tons of people struggle and and grapple with day
to day. It seems like we're all out here just
trying to figure out what our passion is so it
will lead us to our purpose so we can do
the thing that we're supposed to be doing and then
feel satisfied. At least that's the story that I hear
over and over and over and over again, Like that's
the path. I need to find a nail down my
passion so that I can lean into my purpose and
(04:27):
then I'll feel fulfilled. And that is the way for
a lot of people. But I don't agree with this
all the time for everybody, and I'm going to tell
you why. So there's the whole argument situation when it
comes to passion and purpose. And when I talk about
this with clients, they're usually talking about in the realm
of careers and jobs and figuring out what I need
(04:48):
to do and what I'm going to do with my life.
Side note, sometimes I really hate that our jobs are
so much what we categorize what we do with our
lives as. But that's another story for another day. But
your job to that have to be what you do
with your life. Your job can just be a job,
and we're going to talk more about that as I go.
So I think generationally there is a big gap in
(05:09):
this realm. And I am a millennial. Um, I'm in
my thirties. So I think where I am in age
has to do with the bias that I'm about to
talk about, Because hear me when I say this. What
I'm about to say is not based on research, It's
based on my own bias. It's not factual, it's just
my observation. So I mean, you we've all heard stories
(05:31):
about how things used to be, and in earlier generations,
it seems as though there is less of an opportunity
or expectation that work would be a passion driven thing. Right,
So work was just work, and there was less emphasis
on it being something we love and that we wake
up and are excited to go out and do every
(05:51):
single day. It was more of like a means to
an end. And as a world progressed, the idea that
doing what you love became bigger and said, we're talking
about motivational speakers here, we are motivational speakers became a thing,
and in that they told us to follow our dreams.
And then if you if you do what you love,
you will never work a day in your life. That's
not true. If you do what you love, you're going
(06:13):
to be working doing what you love. But I digress.
They also told us that we could be anything we
want to be. I hate this, and I also don't
think this is true. And I'm not trying to be
a Debbie Downer, UM, not trying to be like UM,
just a realist. It just is not true. I cannot
be anything I want to be. Let's say I want
to be a professional basketball player. I would not succeed
(06:34):
in that I could work so hard every single day
years and years and years, but I can only control
so much, and my makeup of who I am within
my body and my athletic ability most likely would not
allow me to be a professional basketball player. I'm also
five three, and I know sure people can play basketball,
but you know, I just thought, but I don't like that,
(06:56):
because we can't be anything we want to be because
it's not just up to us. There's too many variables.
And when that's the message that's sent, it basically says
you can be anything that you want to be. If
you are not successful at what you want to do,
it's your fault, which for some people it can be
on us, but it's not always the case, Like sometimes
(07:17):
you just don't have the resources, or sometimes you can
work as hard as anybody's ever worked and it just
won't work out for you, and that's not always our fault.
And so I just really hate that. And these eyes
ideas are great, like the Saints, do whatever you love
and you'll never work a day in your life, and
you can be anything you want to be. Like the
ideas are great, but they just I think screw with
(07:38):
us more than they help us sometimes, and they put
a false narrative in our heads, I think, and it
makes us feel like something's wrong with us when we
can't live up to the false narrative. And I bring
this up because the reality is, though I wish it
would be different, not everyone gets to have their one
big and true passion to be their job. First of all,
not everybody has one big in true passion. Not everybody
(08:01):
gets to love their job, and everybody gets still like
their job. And I really think that that's a privilege.
And again, like I said earlier, in earlier generations, jobs
were more of a means to end, and for some
people that's still the truth. The job is more of
a means to end, and that I want people to
know that, Like that's okay, because this idea, this goes
back to how it's frustrating that like sometimes we make
(08:23):
our jobs as the most important thing in the world,
and like that's what we do with our lives, but
our lives are so much bigger than our work, so
much bigger other than making us feel bad about ourselves,
but this also does is it creates a sense of
entitlement that I don't really love either, and we can
sometimes feel like we shouldn't have to work jobs that
aren't fun a hundred percent of the time, or do
(08:44):
things that we don't love, because like I said, we
were told a lot of cool ideas that sounded good
in a TED talk. But those cool ideas that sounded
good in a Ted talk don't always translate to real life.
And I think they can be really helpful for some people,
but they're not applicable to everybody. And sometimes we need
(09:04):
life experience before we get to have the job we like.
Sometimes the world is just full of disappointments and we
can't help it. And sometimes we can't just always have
and get what we want. And like I said, the
sense of entitlement, but just a lot of confusion. And
you know, the argument either do you want to live
to work or do you want to work to live?
I see this differently at times, And right now I'm
(09:26):
looking at this as I see live to work, as
you live to work like you love your job, you
can't get enough of it. And it's your, it's you,
it is your one big passion. And and the other
the work to live is the means to the end part,
and you work so you can live your life. You
can eat, you can support your family, you can have
health insurance, maybe so you can go on certain kinds
(09:48):
of vacations or just basically enjoy your life outside of
your job. And I think that either side is okay.
Like I think both of those sides are okay, but
I think a lot of times it's position that one
is better than the other. And I think both of
them can be wonderful, depending on if you're living into
that side of the argument or that side of the street.
(10:11):
Because it's what you feel like you have to do,
it's what you feel like you need to do, or
if it's what you feel like you want to do,
or if it's a combination, it's the why behind the
what right. So always going back to that, I have
so many conversations with humans in my office about feeling
lost and confused, purposeless, passionless, and feeling like they have
(10:31):
no direction. And I believe that the idea that the
world presents these days about following your dreams and creating
the life you want is so amazing. What I don't
want you to you guys to hear is that, like
I'm this person who's looking at the world, it's like
a dark, scary, disappointed place. Like I love the motivational speaking.
I love being pumped up and and and getting some
(10:52):
like pep in my step. I love that stuff. The
problem just is it it doesn't translate to everybody. That
leaves a lot of people somewhat days and confused used.
A lot of times it's spoken in black and white
terms or all or nothing terms everybody or nobody, and
no advice or no belief system or no way of
thinking can apply to every single human in the world.
(11:13):
That like literally can never make sense. But we don't
always realize that when we're listening to stuff. So when
it comes to these people feeling dazed and confused, what
I mean by that is sometimes people can think something's
wrong with me because let's say that person knew what
they were going to do since they were about eight
years old, and I still can't figure it out. Or
maybe I want to do forty five things and I
(11:34):
can't choose what I want to do, and so that
I can't figure out where to make my first step,
and then I'm in this like analysis paralysis, and you know,
or the things that I'm passionate about, yeah, I can't
figure out how to make those into a job that
supports myself though, or I can support my family with.
And this is where like hustle culture really turns me red?
(11:54):
Would you guys probably already know that about me, But
oh it gets me going because again, I love hard work,
I really do. I myself, I'm a hard worker. I
believe in making sacrifices. But not everyone has the ability
to hustle their way to success in the same way.
Because what even is success? We can't define success as
(12:14):
one thing because success to different people is going to
mean something different. And I think a lot of times
when it comes to careers, it's like money, and is
it money? Is success? Money? Because if I have to
work six jobs to support my passion projects so I
can eventually make money off of my passion project and
struggle and suffering and and fight and grind and all
(12:35):
of that, well, I don't know if I want to
do that. When I say I am not speaking of myself,
I'm speaking for general other people. But does that make
me a bad person or a lazy person? And for
some people, there isn't a thing that they like doing
enough to make those kinds of vague, huge sacrifices and
they are okay punching a clock to get a paycheck.
(12:57):
But because of this big push to follow your ashen,
it can bring up the opportunity for people who otherwise
wouldn't care to feel bad about this. And what I'm
really saying is like, there's nothing to feel bad about.
It's just you're different than the other people that do
enjoy that hustle. But it doesn't make either person better.
What I want you to hear is that it's okay
(13:17):
if it's not worth it, and it's also okay if
it is. What I'm saying is that your your hustle
or anyone else's hustle doesn't make you or them more worthy,
and it definitely doesn't make you less. If it makes
you more happy and satisfied, and if that's how you're wired,
that's great, do that. If it sucks your soul, don't
(13:38):
do it, because it's not going to fill up your
worthiness tank. Worthiness is something that we're born with. And
I think this is a hard thing to understand, but
you just get a big old tank of worthiness when
you are born. Everybody gets the same size one. It's
really great, and there's nothing you can do to fill
(13:58):
it up more. You can't overflow it, you can't you
can't have more worthiness than you you started with, and
you can't drain it out. There is no hole in it,
there's no It's like it's like magic gasoline, right, Like
it's like magic fuel. Like it's like if you never
had to fill your car with gas. Like that's your worthiness.
You don't ever have to do anything. You just get
it and you get to own it. You get to
(14:19):
have it. Everybody does. I don't care who you are,
where you came from, how much money you have, what
you look like, any of that stuff. We all have
the same. Man, if we really all believe that our
world would be so different, and I would love to
live in that world. But back to the live to
work or work to live idea, whether on one side
or the other, or maybe you have both, maybe you
(14:40):
do both. The real reality is that not everybody gets
to choose what category they lie. And that's the other
part which I think that I'm like almost contradicting myself,
but like, not everybody gets to choose. So when I
said earlier than why behind your what, it's also a
privilege to get to pick that. And there are a
lot of factors that influence this kind of thing, and
as much as I would like to just be a
(15:00):
ball of inspiration that kicks you into gear and motivates
you and helps you follow your dreams, I am not
a motivational speaker. And as much as I love that
kind of stuff, it doesn't take into account the complexities
of mental health. For sure. It's not that easy for everyone,
and I acknowledge that, and and want to take a
second for all of us to acknowledge that. And I
(15:20):
feel like this is one of the areas where I
kind of lucked out, And you know, I have that
feeling of survivor's guilt, even though this isn't a survival thing,
but it's the same idea. Don't get me wrong. There
are parts of my life that I really don't like
and I'm unsatisfied with and angry and disappointed it with,
and I have those, but I do feel immensely grateful
(15:41):
that my work is a passion of mine and I
love my job a lot. And I want you guys
to also know that in that I struggle with staying
the course. Sometimes I didn't know what I wanted to
be when I grew up, and I kind of fell
into therapy by honestly the grace and movement of on
in my life, and I feel like I've been lucky
(16:03):
that I loved it so much. But along the way,
I've definitely thought about quitting and starting something else about
sixty seven times, and I've had to balance my life
with following passions and also listening to what the difference
between passion and purpose is, and and also being responsible adults,
and also paying attention to my own mental health and
(16:25):
what I do when it gets out of whack and
how I feel when it's in line, and what certain
ways of leaning in this argument do for me. And
also I have to balance it with being able to
enjoy my life and not thinking that I get worthiness
from my job. So I say that because I'm somebody
who's coming from a place where I do feel like
I have privilege in this area, and so it's somewhat
(16:48):
hard to talk about. I don't really know if I
have anything else to say about that. I just needed
to say it for me. I think that one of
the points I'm trying to make here in this conversation,
though I don't know if I'm doing a good job,
is that you don't need to dial in and find
the one thing that makes your heart beat fast in
order to live a fulfilling life. And you can work
(17:08):
a job that you don't love and isn't a passion
of yours and still live a full and fulfilling, purposeful life.
And our purposes all look so different. I think sometimes
mine can look pretty straightforward, like I was saying, like
I'm a therapist, so you could say my purpose is
to help people, but also everybody's purpose could be to
help people, and there literally can be purpose and helping
(17:29):
people and everything we do. Therefore, I don't believe you
need to identify your passion to fulfill your purpose. Your
passion and your purpose don't necessarily have to be aligned.
When they are, that's amazing and such a bounus in life,
but it isn't necessary. You can have passion about bird watching.
You can have passion about playing golf or painting or gardening,
(17:51):
or spending time with your friends or building shelves. I mean,
I could go on and on and on. This doesn't
have to be your purpose. They don't have to be
the same thing. They can be, but it's not one
or the other. There is purpose in so much more
than we realize the world. When you think about it
is so wild. It is so crazy to me how
(18:11):
things work and move together without us even knowing. Like,
not to be too cheesy, but I think there's great
purpose and basically everybody stops right, including the humans who
do things like work at the post office or a bank,
who sometimes feel like they just clock in and out
and their job doesn't have meaning. They're facilitating something that
goes beyond what they see and what they're doing. And
(18:34):
purpose isn't just this thing that counts. When we're actively
saving someone's life through a crazy surgery or changing someone's
life through a song they write or a performance, it
goes beyond what we can see and understand. I believe
we were all created on purpose, with purpose for a purpose,
and I honestly think that a lot of us will
never know what that is in this lifetime. And that's
(18:56):
where we have to pull in some trust and hope
and faith, whatever kind of faith do you want to
have now. Again, my hope is that the ideas that
I'm talking about are not defeating, but but are motivating
in a different way, especially for those who struggle deeply
with identifying passion and nailing one down. If we take
the pressure off of matching our passion and our purpose
and work up. Maybe we would all feel a little
(19:19):
lighter and maybe less stressed and less direction less. I
hate when I hear people talk about their jobs as
if they don't mean anything, because if one job was gone,
somebody would have to move or make a change in
their life to to fill in that gap. Everybody. And
it's just such a cycle. I I get like confused
(19:39):
in my head when I talk about it because it's
so crazy how everything is interwoven but we can't see it.
Oh God, Like I could sit here and ramble about
this forever. But anyway, all of this stuff brings me
back to it. Probably was the best podcast I've ever
listened to in my life. And it actually was a
super soul conversation Oprah super Soul. We all know that
(19:59):
we Oprah. We love Oprah. Oprah is you know, She's it.
But it was probably the best super soul conversation besides,
I let me know this was a super soul conversation
or just an Oprah interview, But Megan Markle, that who
that had my attention like no other. However, in a
different way, this conversation was with a woman named Elizabeth Gilbert,
(20:22):
and if you are not familiar with her, she is
the author of Eat, Pray, Love, which is a book
that was then turned into a movie Julia Roberts starting
it about somebody she got divorced, she quit her job,
and she went on this trek, this journey to find
the meaning of life, all of the things. I can't
speak too much about it because I've tried to watch
(20:42):
the movie like four times and I never get through
the whole thing. But that's the gist of it anyway.
So that book was huge. Obviously, it turned into this
huge movie, and and she used to travel the world
giving talks about finding and cultivating passion. Like I said earlier,
these days it feels very much like you have to
be passionate about your job. And also everybody has the
opportunity to do that. And this leads us to the
(21:04):
space where we are all on this quest to find
what we are most passionate about so we can go
do the thing and then finally love the great, wonderful,
perfect life that is sold to us through this, like
I said in the very beginning. But again, it doesn't
work for everybody, and because of that, people question what's
wrong with them, And the thought really isn't I'm i'm
wired different and that's okay. It's I'm i'm wired different
(21:24):
and that's wrong, or I'm wired wrong, or I'm doing
something wrong. So I want to tell you about this
talk that Elizabeth gave on this podcast, which I tried
to pull it because I kind of wanted to play
audio from it, but I can't find it. And I
think you have to like pay for a subscription of
something now to listen to it, else I would link
it for you guys. So, like I said, she used
(21:45):
to go around the world giving like career advice and
motivational talk centered around follow your passion right and if
you're familiar with a book, this will be of no
surprise to you, like obviously she was doing that. And
one specific talk she gave I think she was in
a conference in Australia, I believe, but don't quote me
on that. It was somewhere in the world. Um, And
(22:06):
after it, she went back to her hotel room and
I believe it was an email she opened up and
got from a woman who was at the talk that
she had just given, and she literally said in this email,
you just made me feel like the biggest loser in
the world. This woman talked about how awful she felt
sitting in this talk about following your passion and how
(22:29):
to follow your passion, because she said, I don't have one.
I don't have a passion. So if you're telling me
the secret to life is to follow my passion, that
makes me feel like again the biggest loser in the world.
And the woman went on to write, it's not for
a lack of searching. I have not been lazy in
my life. I have been tearing my stuff apart for years,
trying to find that thing that you people keep talking about.
(22:50):
Then she sent said, also, it's not that I don't
have a lack of interests, but she just doesn't know
what to commit to, and this has contributed to a
great deal of stress and anxiety for her. So just
imagine getting that email after you think you just have
given this awesome talk about motivating people and making people
feel good and excited about life. And so let's have said.
She sat with us for a bit and eventually she
(23:11):
agreed with the woman that her inspirational talk maybe wasn't
so inspirational, and this catapulted her to reevaluate. The end
quotes advice in ways of thinking that had been kind
of like the pillars that her life had been standing on,
which I really have to say, the amount of strength
that this woman has to really take in the feedback
(23:32):
that she was given is really so inspiring to me.
And it brings up a point that honestly I wasn't
intending to totally talk about today, but here we are.
It's the idea that we are allowed to change our minds,
and that comes with the idea that we can also
allow other people to change their minds. And I guess
this kind of ties back to the Cancel Culture podcast,
(23:52):
which I'm not going to go into. You can listen
to that one um if you haven't already. But humans
have space to change and not say the same in
so many ways, and in one of those ways is
how we think, in view and do our lives and
our belief system and which is like a very large idea,
but I mean, as we grow and and learn more,
(24:12):
we have the ability to not think and stay the same.
And instead of shaming ourselves or shaming other people for
past versions of us, what if we became grateful for
the ability to not have to stay the same. I mean,
that would just be a wild concept, wouldn't it. And
this is essentially like that. Right here, she's really sinking
into that stuff and she's allowing herself to shift and change.
(24:34):
She's not saying, oh no, she's wrong, she heard it wrong.
She she's really listening to that and processing it and saying, wow,
maybe I'm missing something. This is a perfect example right here.
She learned more about the things she believed. She took
in that information, she formed a new opinion and I
want to share what that new opinion is. And it
kind of turned into a theory. So this is the
(24:56):
theory she came up with, she said eventually, and this
is what this talk was about. She said, the world
is divided into two types of people. She said, there
are hummingbirds and then there are these like jackhammer like people.
She talked about how she identifies as someone as a
jackhammer type person. She's somebody who knew she wanted to
be a writer her whole life. And Elima said, these
(25:16):
are the people who become consumed by their passion. And
she said, we don't look up and we don't veer,
and we're just focused on that until the end of time.
She said, it's sufficient. You get a lot done. However,
we tend, being the jackhammer people to be obsessive and
fundamentalist and sometimes a little difficult and very loud. And
then she went on to talk about the hummingbirds. And
(25:39):
she said, then there's the hummingbirds. You know that, these
beautiful color, colorful birds that float around from thing to thing,
eyes wide open, you know, And and she said, hummingbirds
spend their lives doing it very differently. They moved from
tree to tree, from flower to flower, to feel to field,
trying this and then trying that. And then she said, well,
(26:00):
hummingbirds may feel anxious about not immediately finding their passion,
they shouldn't feel pressured to change that. And this is why,
and I'm quoting her a little bit in this as
I speak. She said, they create incredibly rich, complex lives
for themselves. And then they also end up cross pollinating.
That is the service you do if you're a hummingbird person.
(26:20):
She said, the best thing about those who identify as
hummingbirds is their diversity of experience. This is another direct quote.
She said, you bring an idea from here two over there,
where you learn something else. And then you weave it
in and you take it here to the next thing
you do, in your perspective ends up keeping the entire
culture aerated and mixed up and open to the new.
(26:43):
And if that's how you're constructed by your divine maker,
then that's how we need you to be. I get
chills every time I read these quotes from her, And
I know sometimes we get in these spots where we
wish we could change the way we were made, right, like, yeah,
that's great, that's me, But I want to be a jackhammer.
But I Eve and Elizabeth said this in our talk
that those who recognize themselves as hummingbirds will eventually be
(27:06):
much happier with themselves if they allow themselves to follow
their actual hummingbird path. She said, if you do that,
if you are willing to just release yourself from the
pressure and the anxieties surrounded by passion, and you just
humbly and faithfully continue to follow the trail of the
hummingbird path, and you just trust it that one of
these days you might just look up and realize, oh,
(27:26):
my word, I am exactly where I am supposed to be.
In other words, if you can let go of the
idea of passion and if you can follow your curiosity,
your curiosity just might lead you right to your passion.
Again that every time I read it. So instead of
searching for our passion, if you're somebody who feels closely
(27:46):
related to this hummingbird idea, which our old way of
thinking and doing things would say, our passion would lead
us to our purpose and then find the jobs that
we're supposed to work and then pure happiness blah blah
blah blah. If we let go of that idea and
instead of searching for passion, you listen to the question
that Elizabeth postures, which is what would show up if
you took the word passion off the table and just
(28:08):
started to follow your curiosity. She then goes on to
describe that curiosity is more humane and more accessible than passion,
and passion is something that can be demanding ingredient takes
everything out of you. It can also be dangerous and impulsive.
And in contrast to the demands and mania associated with passion,
curiosity doesn't do that. It doesn't strip your life bearer,
(28:28):
take anything away from you. All curiosity does is give
and give and give. This is for everybody, If every day,
you can find something that you are a teeny tiny
bit interested in even right now, that is leaning in
and following your curiosity. And I want to encourage you
guys to stop searching for the huge transformation you are
telling yourself you have to curate or find or have,
(28:52):
because when you follow curiosity and when you just lean
into that, those will end up being the little Elizabeth
calls them the trail of breadcrumbs on the scavenger hunt
to your specific life. Yours, not anybody else, is your
specific life. And the only thing that curiosity will ever
ask of you is that you maybe turn your head
(29:12):
a quarter of an inch this way or a quarter
of an inch that way, or take a step forward.
That's what your curiosity will ask of you. To follow
little clues. That's it. And I mean the truth is
some breadcrumbs might not lead you somewhere. And maybe your
little steps that you take and that you become curious about,
maybe they don't. They don't lead you to the exact
thing it's going to lead you to. But some of
(29:34):
those breadcrumbs will lead you somewhere. They will not knowing
your passion doesn't mean you aren't going anywhere all you
have to do to be able to go somewhere is
stay open to being curious that, my friends, is going
to lead you to the fulfilling life that we've previously
thought passion to purpose to job to fulfilling life was.
(29:54):
I really believe if you follow this, one day you
will wake up and you'll realize you're exactly where you
need be, like she said, and and you'll be wearing
the glasses that you've been looking for this whole time,
you know. And I mean that by like, sometimes we're
like searching, searching, searching, searching, and we're going, we're doing
all this stuff, and we're trying to make these big
we're throwing pillows and we're running through the room looking
(30:16):
for our glasses, and then we reach up and they're
on our head. You know, it's like these tiny little
I just had to reach up. I didn't need to
throw all the couch cushions. I just need to reach up.
I just need to follow that one bread crumb. So
what I'm asking today is is trust one trust that
no matter what you're doing, this purpose in it and
just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean
it's not there. And the world wouldn't move the same
(30:39):
without you. It wouldn't no matter what it is that
you're doing. The other thing I want to encourage you
is to just stay curious. And that's the key, that
really is the key. I mean, as somebody who probably
leans more on the jackhammer side, I want to stay curious,
like I want to open up my eyes and I
want to look up and I want to go from
here that they're passion is great and feels good, and
(31:00):
passions exciting, But the truth is curiosity. I think that's
what keeps us really moving in the loving and kind
and beautiful directions that that we really need to move in.
So with that being said, I encourage you to do
a Google search and maybe listen to Elizabeth's conversation or
talk on your own. It was so good I'll never
(31:21):
forget it. And I encourage you to, you know, get
out and be curious, no matter who you are. I
am so grateful that you guys spent some time listening
to me talk about this stuff. I feel not I
wish I had a different word to use, but I
feel passionate about talking about passion and purpose and all
of this and curiosity, and so I'm grateful to have
a space that you guys have helped me create um
to talk about that. And while we're there, I do
(31:42):
want to say I've been getting a lot of really
awesome emails from you guys that have meant a lot
to me, and I don't think I can say this enough.
I did not think this podcast would be what it
is when I started it, and it is just so
cool to hear that you guys are leaning into some
of these bicks. And every time one of you tells
(32:02):
me I started therapy because I listened to your podcast,
I mean I do like a little dance inside my head,
like it's so amazing to me. And I say all
this to say, this podcast wouldn't be what it is
if it wasn't you guys, and if it wasn't you
guys really listening with a listening ear and open heart,
and then you sharing it because I know you do,
so keep sharing it. And if there is an episode
(32:24):
or something I say that touches a part of you,
share it. And I would love for you to tag
me in it, so you can follow me at on
Instagram at at cat dot de fata and the podcast
at at You Need Therapy podcast and and tag us
and the things that mean something to you, that really
does it. Today, Happy Mental Health Awareness Month. Let's be
(32:44):
aware of our mental health and um I love you guys,
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of You
Need Therapy. My name is Cat. I'm so glad you're here.
As always if you're new, I am a therapist, a
licensed therapist. I live in Nashville and have a private
practice and started this little podcast to just, you know,
start some conversations about some some tough things that we
(00:30):
don't usually talk about and to encourage people to dig
deep into their lives. And with that, I always like
to remind you guys that this here today, right now,
me talking to you is not therapy. I'm a big
proponent of therapy and champion of therapy obviously because I'm
a therapist, but this isn't therapy. This is just therapist
(00:50):
talking to you about some things that I care about.
And with that, today or this month, May is mental
health Awareness month, and of course I found myself thinking
to myself, what am I going to do in order
to highlight this? How can I do a special episode
dedicated to mental health awareness? Then I remembered that's literally
(01:14):
just what I do all the time, like every week,
And so I'm so grateful for all of the people
in the world who are putting out some mental health
specific content to highlight this month and what it stands
for and bring light to, you know, a big part
of our world and our lives. But I realized that
(01:35):
I don't really have to do anything special because we
just that's just what we do here. So I'm glad
to be able to always be doing that. And I
do have some specific things that I'm excited to talk
about this month today being one of those things. But
I don't know. I could have done this at any
any month, which I think is pretty cool regardless, Happy
Mental Health Awareness Month. Also, I would just like to
(01:56):
say I really, really, honestly have love taking a little
break from not that I don't like having guests on
the show. I obviously I love it. I love talking
to people about this stuff. But it's been nice to
take a little break from from the more interviews with
guests and spend someone on one time with you guys.
There are so many things I always want to talk about.
(02:16):
I have a running list of episodes, and sometimes I
wish I could put out four episodes in a week. Actually,
I just get really excited about the episodes. I don't
really want to put out four in a week because
that is a lot of work and that might overload
you guys. But like I said, I have a list
of conversations I'm trying to have with myself for the podcast,
and definitely the one I'm about to dive into has
been really trying to make its debut for a long
(02:39):
time and doing episodes like this. It's really fun and
I love it. It's also very scary because it allows
a lot more space for me, my own personal thoughts
and sometimes some of my story to show and come through,
which I love. But it's also like, ah, you know,
doing the whole vulnerability thing is hard, So I'm in
(03:00):
that with you guys. So today I keep saying, like,
what we're gonna talk about? What we're gonna talk about,
which I guess you know because you've probably have read
the title, But today we're going to talk about something
that is kind of it is it's hard to talk
about for multiple reasons. One because it's a little intangible
and it is scary. And what we're going to talk
about is passion and purpose. So without any more of
(03:22):
me just talking in circles, let's get into it. So
what a topic? What a freaking topic? And just so
we're clear from the very beginning. This is gonna be
in no way, shape or form a how to guide um.
That's not my goal today. I'm not a motivational speaker.
I am just a human who likes to talk about
(03:44):
hard things. I do love motivational speakers. More on that
end a bit, though, But just wanted to be clear
that my goal is not to teach you how to
find your purpose and passion. We're just going to start
to talk about what that is. So I really do
talk about purpose and finding passion in my office with
clients a lot, which tells me that it is something
(04:05):
that tons of people struggle and and grapple with day
to day. It seems like we're all out here just
trying to figure out what our passion is so it
will lead us to our purpose so we can do
the thing that we're supposed to be doing and then
feel satisfied. At least that's the story that I hear
over and over and over and over again, Like that's
the path. I need to find a nail down my
passion so that I can lean into my purpose and
(04:27):
then I'll feel fulfilled. And that is the way for
a lot of people. But I don't agree with this
all the time for everybody, and I'm going to tell
you why. So there's the whole argument situation when it
comes to passion and purpose. And when I talk about
this with clients, they're usually talking about in the realm
of careers and jobs and figuring out what I need
(04:48):
to do and what I'm going to do with my life.
Side note, sometimes I really hate that our jobs are
so much what we categorize what we do with our
lives as. But that's another story for another day. But
your job to that have to be what you do
with your life. Your job can just be a job,
and we're going to talk more about that as I go.
So I think generationally there is a big gap in
(05:09):
this realm. And I am a millennial. Um, I'm in
my thirties. So I think where I am in age
has to do with the bias that I'm about to
talk about, Because hear me when I say this. What
I'm about to say is not based on research, It's
based on my own bias. It's not factual, it's just
my observation. So I mean, you we've all heard stories
(05:31):
about how things used to be, and in earlier generations,
it seems as though there is less of an opportunity
or expectation that work would be a passion driven thing. Right,
So work was just work, and there was less emphasis
on it being something we love and that we wake
up and are excited to go out and do every
(05:51):
single day. It was more of like a means to
an end. And as a world progressed, the idea that
doing what you love became bigger and said, we're talking
about motivational speakers here, we are motivational speakers became a thing,
and in that they told us to follow our dreams.
And then if you if you do what you love,
you will never work a day in your life. That's
not true. If you do what you love, you're going
(06:13):
to be working doing what you love. But I digress.
They also told us that we could be anything we
want to be. I hate this, and I also don't
think this is true. And I'm not trying to be
a Debbie Downer, UM, not trying to be like UM,
just a realist. It just is not true. I cannot
be anything I want to be. Let's say I want
to be a professional basketball player. I would not succeed
(06:34):
in that I could work so hard every single day
years and years and years, but I can only control
so much, and my makeup of who I am within
my body and my athletic ability most likely would not
allow me to be a professional basketball player. I'm also
five three, and I know sure people can play basketball,
but you know, I just thought, but I don't like that,
(06:56):
because we can't be anything we want to be because
it's not just up to us. There's too many variables.
And when that's the message that's sent, it basically says
you can be anything that you want to be. If
you are not successful at what you want to do,
it's your fault, which for some people it can be
on us, but it's not always the case, Like sometimes
(07:17):
you just don't have the resources, or sometimes you can
work as hard as anybody's ever worked and it just
won't work out for you, and that's not always our fault.
And so I just really hate that. And these eyes
ideas are great, like the Saints, do whatever you love
and you'll never work a day in your life, and
you can be anything you want to be. Like the
ideas are great, but they just I think screw with
(07:38):
us more than they help us sometimes, and they put
a false narrative in our heads, I think, and it
makes us feel like something's wrong with us when we
can't live up to the false narrative. And I bring
this up because the reality is, though I wish it
would be different, not everyone gets to have their one
big and true passion to be their job. First of all,
not everybody has one big in true passion. Not everybody
(08:01):
gets to love their job, and everybody gets still like
their job. And I really think that that's a privilege.
And again, like I said earlier, in earlier generations, jobs
were more of a means to end, and for some
people that's still the truth. The job is more of
a means to end, and that I want people to
know that, Like that's okay, because this idea, this goes
back to how it's frustrating that like sometimes we make
(08:23):
our jobs as the most important thing in the world,
and like that's what we do with our lives, but
our lives are so much bigger than our work, so
much bigger other than making us feel bad about ourselves,
but this also does is it creates a sense of
entitlement that I don't really love either, and we can
sometimes feel like we shouldn't have to work jobs that
aren't fun a hundred percent of the time, or do
(08:44):
things that we don't love, because like I said, we
were told a lot of cool ideas that sounded good
in a TED talk. But those cool ideas that sounded
good in a Ted talk don't always translate to real life.
And I think they can be really helpful for some people,
but they're not applicable to everybody. And sometimes we need
(09:04):
life experience before we get to have the job we like.
Sometimes the world is just full of disappointments and we
can't help it. And sometimes we can't just always have
and get what we want. And like I said, the
sense of entitlement, but just a lot of confusion. And
you know, the argument either do you want to live
to work or do you want to work to live?
I see this differently at times, And right now I'm
(09:26):
looking at this as I see live to work, as
you live to work like you love your job, you
can't get enough of it. And it's your, it's you,
it is your one big passion. And and the other
the work to live is the means to the end part,
and you work so you can live your life. You
can eat, you can support your family, you can have
health insurance, maybe so you can go on certain kinds
(09:48):
of vacations or just basically enjoy your life outside of
your job. And I think that either side is okay.
Like I think both of those sides are okay, but
I think a lot of times it's position that one
is better than the other. And I think both of
them can be wonderful, depending on if you're living into
that side of the argument or that side of the street.
(10:11):
Because it's what you feel like you have to do,
it's what you feel like you need to do, or
if it's what you feel like you want to do,
or if it's a combination, it's the why behind the
what right. So always going back to that, I have
so many conversations with humans in my office about feeling
lost and confused, purposeless, passionless, and feeling like they have
(10:31):
no direction. And I believe that the idea that the
world presents these days about following your dreams and creating
the life you want is so amazing. What I don't
want you to you guys to hear is that, like
I'm this person who's looking at the world, it's like
a dark, scary, disappointed place. Like I love the motivational speaking.
I love being pumped up and and and getting some
(10:52):
like pep in my step. I love that stuff. The
problem just is it it doesn't translate to everybody. That
leaves a lot of people somewhat days and confused used.
A lot of times it's spoken in black and white
terms or all or nothing terms everybody or nobody, and
no advice or no belief system or no way of
thinking can apply to every single human in the world.
(11:13):
That like literally can never make sense. But we don't
always realize that when we're listening to stuff. So when
it comes to these people feeling dazed and confused, what
I mean by that is sometimes people can think something's
wrong with me because let's say that person knew what
they were going to do since they were about eight
years old, and I still can't figure it out. Or
maybe I want to do forty five things and I
(11:34):
can't choose what I want to do, and so that
I can't figure out where to make my first step,
and then I'm in this like analysis paralysis, and you know,
or the things that I'm passionate about, yeah, I can't
figure out how to make those into a job that
supports myself though, or I can support my family with.
And this is where like hustle culture really turns me red?
(11:54):
Would you guys probably already know that about me, But
oh it gets me going because again, I love hard work,
I really do. I myself, I'm a hard worker. I
believe in making sacrifices. But not everyone has the ability
to hustle their way to success in the same way.
Because what even is success? We can't define success as
(12:14):
one thing because success to different people is going to
mean something different. And I think a lot of times
when it comes to careers, it's like money, and is
it money? Is success? Money? Because if I have to
work six jobs to support my passion projects so I
can eventually make money off of my passion project and
struggle and suffering and and fight and grind and all
(12:35):
of that, well, I don't know if I want to
do that. When I say I am not speaking of myself,
I'm speaking for general other people. But does that make
me a bad person or a lazy person? And for
some people, there isn't a thing that they like doing
enough to make those kinds of vague, huge sacrifices and
they are okay punching a clock to get a paycheck.
(12:57):
But because of this big push to follow your ashen,
it can bring up the opportunity for people who otherwise
wouldn't care to feel bad about this. And what I'm
really saying is like, there's nothing to feel bad about.
It's just you're different than the other people that do
enjoy that hustle. But it doesn't make either person better.
What I want you to hear is that it's okay
(13:17):
if it's not worth it, and it's also okay if
it is. What I'm saying is that your your hustle
or anyone else's hustle doesn't make you or them more worthy,
and it definitely doesn't make you less. If it makes
you more happy and satisfied, and if that's how you're wired,
that's great, do that. If it sucks your soul, don't
(13:38):
do it, because it's not going to fill up your
worthiness tank. Worthiness is something that we're born with. And
I think this is a hard thing to understand, but
you just get a big old tank of worthiness when
you are born. Everybody gets the same size one. It's
really great, and there's nothing you can do to fill
(13:58):
it up more. You can't overflow it, you can't you
can't have more worthiness than you you started with, and
you can't drain it out. There is no hole in it,
there's no It's like it's like magic gasoline, right, Like
it's like magic fuel. Like it's like if you never
had to fill your car with gas. Like that's your worthiness.
You don't ever have to do anything. You just get
it and you get to own it. You get to
(14:19):
have it. Everybody does. I don't care who you are,
where you came from, how much money you have, what
you look like, any of that stuff. We all have
the same. Man, if we really all believe that our
world would be so different, and I would love to
live in that world. But back to the live to
work or work to live idea, whether on one side
or the other, or maybe you have both, maybe you
(14:40):
do both. The real reality is that not everybody gets
to choose what category they lie. And that's the other
part which I think that I'm like almost contradicting myself,
but like, not everybody gets to choose. So when I
said earlier than why behind your what, it's also a
privilege to get to pick that. And there are a
lot of factors that influence this kind of thing, and
as much as I would like to just be a
(15:00):
ball of inspiration that kicks you into gear and motivates
you and helps you follow your dreams, I am not
a motivational speaker. And as much as I love that
kind of stuff, it doesn't take into account the complexities
of mental health. For sure. It's not that easy for everyone,
and I acknowledge that, and and want to take a
second for all of us to acknowledge that. And I
(15:20):
feel like this is one of the areas where I
kind of lucked out, And you know, I have that
feeling of survivor's guilt, even though this isn't a survival thing,
but it's the same idea. Don't get me wrong. There
are parts of my life that I really don't like
and I'm unsatisfied with and angry and disappointed it with,
and I have those, but I do feel immensely grateful
(15:41):
that my work is a passion of mine and I
love my job a lot. And I want you guys
to also know that in that I struggle with staying
the course. Sometimes I didn't know what I wanted to
be when I grew up, and I kind of fell
into therapy by honestly the grace and movement of on
in my life, and I feel like I've been lucky
(16:03):
that I loved it so much. But along the way,
I've definitely thought about quitting and starting something else about
sixty seven times, and I've had to balance my life
with following passions and also listening to what the difference
between passion and purpose is, and and also being responsible adults,
and also paying attention to my own mental health and
(16:25):
what I do when it gets out of whack and
how I feel when it's in line, and what certain
ways of leaning in this argument do for me. And
also I have to balance it with being able to
enjoy my life and not thinking that I get worthiness
from my job. So I say that because I'm somebody
who's coming from a place where I do feel like
I have privilege in this area, and so it's somewhat
(16:48):
hard to talk about. I don't really know if I
have anything else to say about that. I just needed
to say it for me. I think that one of
the points I'm trying to make here in this conversation,
though I don't know if I'm doing a good job,
is that you don't need to dial in and find
the one thing that makes your heart beat fast in
order to live a fulfilling life. And you can work
(17:08):
a job that you don't love and isn't a passion
of yours and still live a full and fulfilling, purposeful life.
And our purposes all look so different. I think sometimes
mine can look pretty straightforward, like I was saying, like
I'm a therapist, so you could say my purpose is
to help people, but also everybody's purpose could be to
help people, and there literally can be purpose and helping
(17:29):
people and everything we do. Therefore, I don't believe you
need to identify your passion to fulfill your purpose. Your
passion and your purpose don't necessarily have to be aligned.
When they are, that's amazing and such a bounus in life,
but it isn't necessary. You can have passion about bird watching.
You can have passion about playing golf or painting or gardening,
(17:51):
or spending time with your friends or building shelves. I mean,
I could go on and on and on. This doesn't
have to be your purpose. They don't have to be
the same thing. They can be, but it's not one
or the other. There is purpose in so much more
than we realize the world. When you think about it
is so wild. It is so crazy to me how
(18:11):
things work and move together without us even knowing. Like,
not to be too cheesy, but I think there's great
purpose and basically everybody stops right, including the humans who
do things like work at the post office or a bank,
who sometimes feel like they just clock in and out
and their job doesn't have meaning. They're facilitating something that
goes beyond what they see and what they're doing. And
(18:34):
purpose isn't just this thing that counts. When we're actively
saving someone's life through a crazy surgery or changing someone's
life through a song they write or a performance, it
goes beyond what we can see and understand. I believe
we were all created on purpose, with purpose for a purpose,
and I honestly think that a lot of us will
never know what that is in this lifetime. And that's
(18:56):
where we have to pull in some trust and hope
and faith, whatever kind of faith do you want to
have now. Again, my hope is that the ideas that
I'm talking about are not defeating, but but are motivating
in a different way, especially for those who struggle deeply
with identifying passion and nailing one down. If we take
the pressure off of matching our passion and our purpose
and work up. Maybe we would all feel a little
(19:19):
lighter and maybe less stressed and less direction less. I
hate when I hear people talk about their jobs as
if they don't mean anything, because if one job was gone,
somebody would have to move or make a change in
their life to to fill in that gap. Everybody. And
it's just such a cycle. I I get like confused
(19:39):
in my head when I talk about it because it's
so crazy how everything is interwoven but we can't see it.
Oh God, Like I could sit here and ramble about
this forever. But anyway, all of this stuff brings me
back to it. Probably was the best podcast I've ever
listened to in my life. And it actually was a
super soul conversation Oprah super Soul. We all know that
(19:59):
we Oprah. We love Oprah. Oprah is you know, She's it.
But it was probably the best super soul conversation besides,
I let me know this was a super soul conversation
or just an Oprah interview, But Megan Markle, that who
that had my attention like no other. However, in a
different way, this conversation was with a woman named Elizabeth Gilbert,
(20:22):
and if you are not familiar with her, she is
the author of Eat, Pray, Love, which is a book
that was then turned into a movie Julia Roberts starting
it about somebody she got divorced, she quit her job,
and she went on this trek, this journey to find
the meaning of life, all of the things. I can't
speak too much about it because I've tried to watch
(20:42):
the movie like four times and I never get through
the whole thing. But that's the gist of it anyway.
So that book was huge. Obviously, it turned into this
huge movie, and and she used to travel the world
giving talks about finding and cultivating passion. Like I said earlier,
these days it feels very much like you have to
be passionate about your job. And also everybody has the
opportunity to do that. And this leads us to the
(21:04):
space where we are all on this quest to find
what we are most passionate about so we can go
do the thing and then finally love the great, wonderful,
perfect life that is sold to us through this, like
I said in the very beginning. But again, it doesn't
work for everybody, and because of that, people question what's
wrong with them, And the thought really isn't I'm i'm
wired different and that's okay. It's I'm i'm wired different
(21:24):
and that's wrong, or I'm wired wrong, or I'm doing
something wrong. So I want to tell you about this
talk that Elizabeth gave on this podcast, which I tried
to pull it because I kind of wanted to play
audio from it, but I can't find it. And I
think you have to like pay for a subscription of
something now to listen to it, else I would link
it for you guys. So, like I said, she used
(21:45):
to go around the world giving like career advice and
motivational talk centered around follow your passion right and if
you're familiar with a book, this will be of no
surprise to you, like obviously she was doing that. And
one specific talk she gave I think she was in
a conference in Australia, I believe, but don't quote me
on that. It was somewhere in the world. Um, And
(22:06):
after it, she went back to her hotel room and
I believe it was an email she opened up and
got from a woman who was at the talk that
she had just given, and she literally said in this email,
you just made me feel like the biggest loser in
the world. This woman talked about how awful she felt
sitting in this talk about following your passion and how
(22:29):
to follow your passion, because she said, I don't have one.
I don't have a passion. So if you're telling me
the secret to life is to follow my passion, that
makes me feel like again the biggest loser in the world.
And the woman went on to write, it's not for
a lack of searching. I have not been lazy in
my life. I have been tearing my stuff apart for years,
trying to find that thing that you people keep talking about.
(22:50):
Then she sent said, also, it's not that I don't
have a lack of interests, but she just doesn't know
what to commit to, and this has contributed to a
great deal of stress and anxiety for her. So just
imagine getting that email after you think you just have
given this awesome talk about motivating people and making people
feel good and excited about life. And so let's have said.
She sat with us for a bit and eventually she
(23:11):
agreed with the woman that her inspirational talk maybe wasn't
so inspirational, and this catapulted her to reevaluate. The end
quotes advice in ways of thinking that had been kind
of like the pillars that her life had been standing on,
which I really have to say, the amount of strength
that this woman has to really take in the feedback
(23:32):
that she was given is really so inspiring to me.
And it brings up a point that honestly I wasn't
intending to totally talk about today, but here we are.
It's the idea that we are allowed to change our minds,
and that comes with the idea that we can also
allow other people to change their minds. And I guess
this kind of ties back to the Cancel Culture podcast,
(23:52):
which I'm not going to go into. You can listen
to that one um if you haven't already. But humans
have space to change and not say the same in
so many ways, and in one of those ways is
how we think, in view and do our lives and
our belief system and which is like a very large idea,
but I mean, as we grow and and learn more,
(24:12):
we have the ability to not think and stay the same.
And instead of shaming ourselves or shaming other people for
past versions of us, what if we became grateful for
the ability to not have to stay the same. I mean,
that would just be a wild concept, wouldn't it. And
this is essentially like that. Right here, she's really sinking
into that stuff and she's allowing herself to shift and change.
(24:34):
She's not saying, oh no, she's wrong, she heard it wrong.
She she's really listening to that and processing it and saying, wow,
maybe I'm missing something. This is a perfect example right here.
She learned more about the things she believed. She took
in that information, she formed a new opinion and I
want to share what that new opinion is. And it
kind of turned into a theory. So this is the
(24:56):
theory she came up with, she said eventually, and this
is what this talk was about. She said, the world
is divided into two types of people. She said, there
are hummingbirds and then there are these like jackhammer like people.
She talked about how she identifies as someone as a
jackhammer type person. She's somebody who knew she wanted to
be a writer her whole life. And Elima said, these
(25:16):
are the people who become consumed by their passion. And
she said, we don't look up and we don't veer,
and we're just focused on that until the end of time.
She said, it's sufficient. You get a lot done. However,
we tend, being the jackhammer people to be obsessive and
fundamentalist and sometimes a little difficult and very loud. And
then she went on to talk about the hummingbirds. And
(25:39):
she said, then there's the hummingbirds. You know that, these
beautiful color, colorful birds that float around from thing to thing,
eyes wide open, you know, And and she said, hummingbirds
spend their lives doing it very differently. They moved from
tree to tree, from flower to flower, to feel to field,
trying this and then trying that. And then she said, well,
(26:00):
hummingbirds may feel anxious about not immediately finding their passion,
they shouldn't feel pressured to change that. And this is why,
and I'm quoting her a little bit in this as
I speak. She said, they create incredibly rich, complex lives
for themselves. And then they also end up cross pollinating.
That is the service you do if you're a hummingbird person.
(26:20):
She said, the best thing about those who identify as
hummingbirds is their diversity of experience. This is another direct quote.
She said, you bring an idea from here two over there,
where you learn something else. And then you weave it
in and you take it here to the next thing
you do, in your perspective ends up keeping the entire
culture aerated and mixed up and open to the new.
(26:43):
And if that's how you're constructed by your divine maker,
then that's how we need you to be. I get
chills every time I read these quotes from her, And
I know sometimes we get in these spots where we
wish we could change the way we were made, right, like, yeah,
that's great, that's me, But I want to be a jackhammer.
But I Eve and Elizabeth said this in our talk
that those who recognize themselves as hummingbirds will eventually be
(27:06):
much happier with themselves if they allow themselves to follow
their actual hummingbird path. She said, if you do that,
if you are willing to just release yourself from the
pressure and the anxieties surrounded by passion, and you just
humbly and faithfully continue to follow the trail of the
hummingbird path, and you just trust it that one of
these days you might just look up and realize, oh,
(27:26):
my word, I am exactly where I am supposed to be.
In other words, if you can let go of the
idea of passion and if you can follow your curiosity,
your curiosity just might lead you right to your passion.
Again that every time I read it. So instead of
searching for our passion, if you're somebody who feels closely
(27:46):
related to this hummingbird idea, which our old way of
thinking and doing things would say, our passion would lead
us to our purpose and then find the jobs that
we're supposed to work and then pure happiness blah blah
blah blah. If we let go of that idea and
instead of searching for passion, you listen to the question
that Elizabeth postures, which is what would show up if
you took the word passion off the table and just
(28:08):
started to follow your curiosity. She then goes on to
describe that curiosity is more humane and more accessible than passion,
and passion is something that can be demanding ingredient takes
everything out of you. It can also be dangerous and impulsive.
And in contrast to the demands and mania associated with passion,
curiosity doesn't do that. It doesn't strip your life bearer,
(28:28):
take anything away from you. All curiosity does is give
and give and give. This is for everybody, If every day,
you can find something that you are a teeny tiny
bit interested in even right now, that is leaning in
and following your curiosity. And I want to encourage you
guys to stop searching for the huge transformation you are
telling yourself you have to curate or find or have,
(28:52):
because when you follow curiosity and when you just lean
into that, those will end up being the little Elizabeth
calls them the trail of breadcrumbs on the scavenger hunt
to your specific life. Yours, not anybody else, is your
specific life. And the only thing that curiosity will ever
ask of you is that you maybe turn your head
(29:12):
a quarter of an inch this way or a quarter
of an inch that way, or take a step forward.
That's what your curiosity will ask of you. To follow
little clues. That's it. And I mean the truth is
some breadcrumbs might not lead you somewhere. And maybe your
little steps that you take and that you become curious about,
maybe they don't. They don't lead you to the exact
thing it's going to lead you to. But some of
(29:34):
those breadcrumbs will lead you somewhere. They will not knowing
your passion doesn't mean you aren't going anywhere all you
have to do to be able to go somewhere is
stay open to being curious that, my friends, is going
to lead you to the fulfilling life that we've previously
thought passion to purpose to job to fulfilling life was.
(29:54):
I really believe if you follow this, one day you
will wake up and you'll realize you're exactly where you
need be, like she said, and and you'll be wearing
the glasses that you've been looking for this whole time,
you know. And I mean that by like, sometimes we're
like searching, searching, searching, searching, and we're going, we're doing
all this stuff, and we're trying to make these big
we're throwing pillows and we're running through the room looking
(30:16):
for our glasses, and then we reach up and they're
on our head. You know, it's like these tiny little
I just had to reach up. I didn't need to
throw all the couch cushions. I just need to reach up.
I just need to follow that one bread crumb. So
what I'm asking today is is trust one trust that
no matter what you're doing, this purpose in it and
just because you don't know what it is doesn't mean
it's not there. And the world wouldn't move the same
(30:39):
without you. It wouldn't no matter what it is that
you're doing. The other thing I want to encourage you
is to just stay curious. And that's the key, that
really is the key. I mean, as somebody who probably
leans more on the jackhammer side, I want to stay curious,
like I want to open up my eyes and I
want to look up and I want to go from
here that they're passion is great and feels good, and
(31:00):
passions exciting, But the truth is curiosity. I think that's
what keeps us really moving in the loving and kind
and beautiful directions that that we really need to move in.
So with that being said, I encourage you to do
a Google search and maybe listen to Elizabeth's conversation or
talk on your own. It was so good I'll never
(31:21):
forget it. And I encourage you to, you know, get
out and be curious, no matter who you are. I
am so grateful that you guys spent some time listening
to me talk about this stuff. I feel not I
wish I had a different word to use, but I
feel passionate about talking about passion and purpose and all
of this and curiosity, and so I'm grateful to have
a space that you guys have helped me create um
to talk about that. And while we're there, I do
(31:42):
want to say I've been getting a lot of really
awesome emails from you guys that have meant a lot
to me, and I don't think I can say this enough.
I did not think this podcast would be what it
is when I started it, and it is just so
cool to hear that you guys are leaning into some
of these bicks. And every time one of you tells
(32:02):
me I started therapy because I listened to your podcast,
I mean I do like a little dance inside my head,
like it's so amazing to me. And I say all
this to say, this podcast wouldn't be what it is
if it wasn't you guys, and if it wasn't you
guys really listening with a listening ear and open heart,
and then you sharing it because I know you do,
so keep sharing it. And if there is an episode
(32:24):
or something I say that touches a part of you,
share it. And I would love for you to tag
me in it, so you can follow me at on
Instagram at at cat dot de fata and the podcast
at at You Need Therapy podcast and and tag us
and the things that mean something to you, that really
does it. Today, Happy Mental Health Awareness Month. Let's be
(32:44):
aware of our mental health and um I love you guys,
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