October 23, 2023 • 28 mins
This week, Kat talks about the power of our most painful moments. Inspired by her Spotify playlist: This is For Crying, Kat breaks down why and how sad songs (written by others) have been healing agents in her own life. When we feel connected versus isolated on our darkest days- we gain the opportunity to find hope. And when we heal from from our wounds we enter a cycle to be able to help others through similar moments in their lives. If you're in a storm right now. we hope this episode allows you to be present while knowing you don’t have to be there alone. And always remember: Our experiences are unique to us and also connected to others.
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Have a question, concern, guest idea, something else? Reach Kat at: Kathryn@youneedtherapyodcast.com
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Produced by: @HoustonTilley
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I started to realize that not being an expert isn't
a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know
something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's
probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die
before you die, then you can really live. There's a
wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah,
(00:31):
and I didn't know what to do because there was
no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel
like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat.
I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And
right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope
encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,
(00:54):
and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Therapy Podcast.
My name is Kat, I am the host, and quick
reminder before we get into the episode today that although
this podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's called
You Need Therapy, it does not serve as a replacement
(01:16):
or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However,
we always hope that it can be helpful in some
way to you guys. Now, today's episode is a solo episode,
and the idea for it started while I was singing
a song that I realized I didn't actually know the
words to. And I feel like I said that confusingly,
(01:39):
because what I mean is like, have you ever sang
a song or learned a song or memorized the words
for a song and then you realized that you actually
don't even know what the song was, even saying like,
you know the words, but you don't even know what
they mean when shrunk together, and I am hoping that
you guys are saying, oh, yes, I do that, because
(01:59):
I I do that all the time. And I actually
started laughing thinking about, like what other songs I do
or I have done this with. And there are a
lot of songs that I would sang back in let's
say middle school, early ages, maybe even like elementary school
that I had no business singing along too, but I
(02:19):
didn't really know what I was saying. So that still
happens to me as an adult. And I realized it
was happening last week. And I recently became obsessed with
this song called Call Your Mom by Noah Kahan, and
if you don't know who he is. I just did
you a huge favor because he's amazing, and I'm so
(02:41):
jealous that you get to listen to all of his
music for the first time. But I recently became obsessed
with this song called Your Mom and I was listening
on repeat, and I do that a lot with songs,
and then I usually get annoyed with them, so I'm
trying to take it slow with this one. But I
didn't really know why I was obsessed with this song
other than I really liked I don't know the beat
(03:03):
or the mood of the song, and if you don't
know me, I am known to love sad music and
won't get to that later. But anyway, the song eventually
came and made its way into my TikTok algorithm, and
the lyrics were on the video that I was watching,
(03:25):
so I was reading them as I was watching the video,
and I just had this moment of oh my gosh,
I get more why I'm obsessed with this song. And
then I proceeded to put it on my phone and
play it and listen to it over and over because
it almost took on this whole new meaning. And this
is a song that, in my opinion, just opens up
(03:46):
your feelings. And as I was both listening to it
and reading the lyrics, it almost was as if like
this rolodex of my own experiences relating to his words
up and my mind was sifting through them. I could
see I actually am like as I'm saying this and
thinking back on the certain images that popped up as
(04:08):
I was relating to this, and it felt very warm
and cozy, even though a lot of these images that
were popping up were images from a time in my
life that was not my favorite time. And this song
is actually about a friend of his that died by suicide,
and the song talks about showing up and supporting somebody
(04:30):
who's going through really deep, extreme, excruciating pain. And one
of my favorite lines in the song is don't let
this darkness fool you. All the lights turned off can
be turned on. And as I was reading that and
listening to it over and over again, I had this
moment of clarity where I could finally answer this question
(04:54):
that I feel like I've asked myself, and therapist says
have also asked me multiple times, and I've given them
answers I'd given myself answers. But I had this moment
of clarity where I actually know the answer to the question,
what would you go back and tell your younger self
if you got the chance to go back and speak
to them, And it would be that it would just
be that lyric, that sentence right there. Don't let this
(05:17):
darkness fool you. All lights turned off can be turned on. Now.
I've never experienced suicidal ideation myself when I am thinking
about the moments that pop in my head that I
would go back and say those two That's not exactly
what I was going through. But I have been in
places that have felt somewhat like black holes, and I
have had seasons in my life where I thought I
(05:40):
would never feel joy again. And I've had seasons where
I felt sad and I had been tearful and anxious
with no available explanation, which is something that is really
scary to just be tearful and sad all the time
when there isn't anything you can pinpoint or understand or explain. Therefore,
(06:01):
you can't really do certain things to change how you're
feeling because you don't even know what got you there.
And I have learned a lot through those experiences. I'm
not currently going through one of those, however, I know
that that can happen again. But I have learned so
much through those moments of my life. And one of
(06:22):
the most valuable things that I have learned in those
moments is that things change. They can change for the
bad sometimes, but also they get better and they can
change for the good. And if there is one thing
that we can count on, and that I know that
I can count on, is that life will continue to change.
They'll continue to be moments in my life that I
(06:43):
want to savor, and they there will continue to be
moments in my life that I don't want to exist.
Not me wanting to exist, but I don't want those
moments to exist. And this knowing of change and learning
that's inevitable. It has really led me to be able
to be more present in my joyful moments and it
(07:05):
has also, at the same time led me to be
able to curate and grab onto more hope in the
bleak moments. So I used to teach indoor cycling, and
this was a long time ago. I mean, I guess
I quit a year and a half maybe two years ago,
but I taught for like six or seven years and
(07:27):
a long time ago, probably in the first two or
three years of that, I got a review on class Pass,
which is a app and like a membership that you
can buy so you can go to a bunch of
different classes and not just be at one studio or gym.
And at the end of every class, the app prompts
you to review the class and rate the class. And
(07:48):
I got a review one time that said something along
the lines of, she's been playing a lot of sad
music lately. And I think that I actually said, I
love Kat's class, but she's been playing a lot of
sad music lately. And I wish I could have responded
to that review directly, because I would have said, well,
I'm doing that because I'm sad and the music and
(08:11):
the songs that are the most interesting to me right
now are songs that I can connect to and the
ones that I understand, and these are the ones that
I understand right now. And then it turned out I
got kind of a reputation for playing sad, moody music,
and that kind of was what I was known for.
And it's not all I played, obviously, but it was
(08:32):
a staple that you were bound to get if you
came to one of my cycling classes, which I did
not hate that that was what I was known for.
I really liked it. And granted my classes aren't or
weren't because I don't teach anymore, but they weren't for everyone,
just like anyone's class isn't going to be for everyone.
But what I think they did for a lot of
(08:53):
people is it gave them permission to feel the weight
of the human experience, knowing that they weren't doing it
by themselves. And I said earlier, I really do like
listening to sad music, and it's because this weird thing
happens when I listen to those kinds of songs. It
doesn't make me more sad necessarily. It actually feels very
(09:18):
soothing because I'm experiencing this me not being alone in
the moments of pain that I've had when I listen
to those songs. And what I do know is that
it is really difficult to grieve alone, and it kind
of just adds insult to injury. Like I'm already in
this screening process and I'm doing it by myself, and
(09:39):
I feel kind of just like I'm out here on
an island, and what I have experienced. What I have
with the thoughts that have been going on in my
head when I listen to that music, is that if
I'm connecting with what these people are saying or writing,
and they are writing these songs from experiences they have had,
(10:00):
the only way they can put these words together is
because it's something that has happened to them or somebody else,
then that means that other people have been where I am,
and that means that they most likely made it through
some of these times to be able to write this
music or go out and play this music. Or maybe
they are sharing this music from a different moment in
(10:20):
their life. And if they once felt like this and
their life still isn't in that deep hole, then I
have some data that shows that my life will not
always be in this deep hole. I believe that connection
is by far one of the greatest healers and also
(10:42):
one of the greatest soothing agents that we have. It's
why the same songs that I listened to on repeat
while I was crying for hours in my bed thinking
my life would never feel normal again, are also the
same songs that I can listen to in my car
on the way to work and feel refreshed after listening
to and listening to Call Your Mom, which is like,
(11:05):
it's a funny title, but listening to that song didn't
shove me into a pit of depression. It allowed me
to offer myself self compassion, and it allowed me to
offer myself so much gratitude and allowed myself to be
proud of myself and to have perspective. It was so helpful.
But it's not just songs that do that, right. One
(11:30):
of my most memorable therapy sessions ever was one where
a therapist that I was seeing told me a story
that related to what I was going through at the
time and what I walked into her office wanting to
work through. And I kept asking myself if I would
always feel this way? And I probably asked her that
(11:50):
a million times, because I think I blacked out a
lot of our sessions because I was in such an
emotional warfare with myself. However, I remember her telling me
that story. I remember how I was sitting, I remember
I can see her face as she's telling it to me,
and like how she was positioned in her chair, and
(12:12):
her story showed me that there was a possibility that
I wouldn't always feel that way and to be honest.
When she told me her story, I was like, oh, shoot,
like that's worse than the situation I'm in. And she's
sitting here having hope, and she's sitting here living a
life that she's enjoying, and she's sitting here able to
smile and laugh and get through an hour of the
(12:34):
day without crying. Okay. That gives me something to kind
of hold on to, some proof, some data. And there
are a lot of memes or videos just like posts
or things on the internet and social media that have
created a huge fear around sharing our stories of redemption
(12:55):
to those who are struggling. Essentially, these types of I
think you guys will understand what I'm talking about, But
these types of videos are basically posturing that when you
share something about yourself in the midst of someone else's pain,
you're invalidating them in one way or another. And I
like to assume that this comes from a good place,
But what's happened I've seen is that we've somewhat created
(13:18):
barriers to hope and connection through those good intentions, I
believe there is value in allowing somebody to say what
they need to say and vent and have space to
do that. That is theirs to hold and uninterrupted. I
believe in all that, and there's a difference in making
(13:38):
someone else's pain about you and letting someone know they're
not alone. And letting someone know they are not alone
is very powerful. I do think there are some instances
when maybe you don't need to say anything about yourself.
Those are things that are true that there are those things,
but there are also few worse things to hear or
(14:00):
to think because of certain silences. Then I can't relate
to you when you're already feeling alone and lost. And
there are a few things I can think of for
myself at least better to hear or to feel. Then
I get it, and it could be a version of that.
(14:22):
But I have been so thankful for moments in my
life where I have either been told directly or I
have heard through a song or a story or something
a podcast, where a book where I've heard some version
of I get it. And their experience might be different,
but they have felt deep pain and they can show
(14:45):
me that there is possibility for it to get better.
We can validate and relate at the same time, and
that is important that to acknowledge we can validate and
relate to somebody at the same time. They don't have
to be separate experiences, and I think they're possibly more
powerful when they are together. I don't think that there
(15:08):
is just like one phrase or action that can completely
move us out of the darkness of our lives. There
are things that can help. Yes, I don't think that
there is one thing that we can do that takes
us out of the dark parts of our lives. If
there was, I think that we would all be using
that by now, and I would not be having this
conversation with you guys. I do believe they are experiences
(15:31):
that we walk through that allow us to keep seeing
hope up ahead, and that give us enough strength to
take one more step forward until we need the more
strength to take the next step forward. And those experiences
that I'm talking about are the ones where we relate
to someone or someone relates to us, where we feel
understood by someone or where we feel like we understand
(15:53):
someone else. It's the essence of being connected rather than lost,
where our jagged corners we could look at as shattered
and useless pieces, actually becomes spaces that allow someone else's
piece to fit and those experiences that prove that my
ridges and bumps actually make it possible for me to connect,
and my ridges and bumps help other people heal unless
(16:17):
I hide them. Of course. Now this doesn't mean I'm
glorifying the thing that gave me that bump, but it
gives me a way to see meaning in life after
the bump happens. Anyone who listens to this podcast regularly
knows that I have an ever evolving, complicated relationship with
how we share our lives on social media and the
way in which we divulge our insides with random people's outsides.
(16:39):
And while I don't think everything has to be public information,
I also know that when we open up parts of
our stories in healthy ways, so much good comes. It's
the whole idea of where we can see the phoenix
rising from the ashes, right, like something being born new
and beautiful out of something dying, something icky happening or
(17:03):
undesirable happening. I get to see a lot of the
lows of people's lives in my office, which is a
unique experience, and I acknowledge that, and I know that
I have a different view of the human experience because
of that. Now, when I meet people and they ask
me what I do. A very common response is often
one I get are you analyzing me? Or are you
(17:25):
judging me? Oh gosh, don't talk to her. I get
some version of that, and then I get oh, my gosh,
I don't know how you do that. It must be
so hard, like oh my god, are you okay? Like
some version of oh, my goodness, gracious, you have the
hardest job in the world. And while I believe that
our job has its challenges and some days are harder
than others, I actually feel extremely grateful to see the
(17:51):
lows that I see. And this is not because I
like when people are in pain. That's not like a
comfortable experience that I have. It's not it's not warm.
But what I get to do is I get to
watch transformation after transformation. I get to see so many
real stories unfold. I get to see the darkness turned
(18:11):
to light. I get to see the lights turned off
getting turned back on, And that is something that I
think is also very unique and not normal. I have
so many stories outside of the experiences I have from
listening to the music or connecting with friends or connecting
with my own therapist. I have so many stories that
(18:32):
prove to me that we don't always stay in the
dark pits. I have a lot of proof, and I
get to witness a lot of proof that will circle
back and help someone else believe that things get better.
And as I sit across from these people, I come
across a lot of people that I see parts of
me in. And as I sit across from these people,
(18:58):
I come across a lot of people that I see
parts of me in. I see a lot of the
part of me that wanted to know how to make
the pain that I was feeling go away. People looking
for tools, for a protocol, for something tangible to do,
thinking there has to be some kind of recipe, like
(19:18):
you tell, give me the list of the thing I'll
do the things. There has to be some kind of
recipe that cures this ailment I'm feeling, essentially, and I
tend to get both confused and disappointed looks when I
tell them that there is no recipe. It doesn't exist.
But if if one did, it would include being with
(19:40):
your pain, not avoiding it. And there is so much
fruitfulness in being in that pain. That is, without a doubt,
ninety nine point nine percent of the time I get
a cross eyed look after saying something like that to somebody.
And there are things you can do to soothe yourself
as you were in the pain, but there are not
any full per strategies that I've discovered or heard of
(20:03):
that functionally allow you to heal and process your experiences
unless you stay engaged with your experience and in that.
There are certain things that I have to say in
my work that honestly annoy me, and sometimes I'll preface
them with I know this is annoying to hear, and
I'm annoyed with myself for even having to say it.
Sometimes I don't, but sometimes I say that because it
(20:24):
is just that annoying. They feel cheesy, they feel like
they're cliches. They're just like baseline annoying. One of those
things happens to be time helps. It's annoying because from
my experience, it's like, okay, cool, that's not helpful, Like
you telling me that is not helpful. I can't manipulate time.
I can't speed it up, I can't slow it down.
I have no control over that. And it's usually not
(20:47):
something that somebody wants to hear in the midst of pain.
But often what they recalled being an enormous part of
their recovery. Hannah Bruncher, who is a writer and also
has been a guest on the wrote a blog post
a while ago where she talked about something that was
kind of annoying in the same way to her. I'm
(21:09):
going to read what she wrote. She said, I used
to hate when people would liken in quotes going through
a hard time or in quotes transforming to the process
of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. I thought it
was the stupidest, most overused metaphor out there. I read
somewhere that caterpillars go through something called diapause. Diapause is
(21:34):
the spot in the transformation process where some caterpillars tried
desperately to cling to their larva life. They don't want
to change, they try to resist it. I think that's
probably because they have no idea what's coming up ahead.
They have no idea that there could actually be something
better at the end of themselves. They hate the fact
(21:57):
that darkness could be good for them now. This actually
reminds me of a Mary Oliver quote that someone shared
with me when I was going through a time in
my life where my emotional pain felt unwavering, like it
felt the most excruciating. And the quote is someone I
(22:18):
loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It
took me years to understand that this too was a gift.
And honestly, when they told me that quote, I didn't
get it. I didn't understand it. It didn't make sense to
me until it actually started making sense. And it's what
Hannah wrote. We hate the fact that darkness can be
(22:40):
good for us. And what I am not saying here
is that your trauma or abuse was good for you.
That is a separate, more nuanced conversation where we can
separate the experience from creating meaning and life after the experience.
But I do believe that darkness and struggle and the
time we spend in that space can be fruitful for us,
can be helpful. And this is in part why you
(23:03):
can't bypass pain by finding meaning, because it is in
the pain that creates the space to find the meaning.
Hiding or running away from your feelings, finding a way
to avoid them or to get rid of them, doesn't
make things better. It actually just turns our pain into suffering.
And we are in charge of that. We actually control that,
(23:25):
which makes me think of something else that I heard
from Hannah Brncher. I heard it first years ago, and
I don't remember if I heard it she wrote about
it in one of her books, or if it was
in one of her talks that I watched a video
on YouTube of, or if it was in her newsletter.
I don't remember where it was from, but I remember
I first heard the story from her and it stuck
(23:47):
with me. And Amy Brown actually shared this somewhat recently
on her podcast for Things with Amy Brown, so it's
making its way around the world. But what I'm talking
about is the metaphor regarding buffalos, and if you haven't
heard of it, Apparently, when Cal's sends a storm is coming,
they tend to run away from the storm, and they
(24:09):
continue to attempt to outrun the storm, which then results
in them running with the storm, which to my knowledge,
cows are slow, So it's funny to think that they
think that this tactic would be helpful. In reality, what
happens is that by doing this they multiply the time
and the energy that is being spent by them trying
to get away. They actually stay in it longer, and
(24:32):
the pain is larger. But that's also human nature. We
sense pain and we say, hey, how do I run
from this? How do I make this go away? And
our avoidance of our pain and discomfort is the very
thing that makes our experience worse. Our attempt to flee
is what actually creates deeper wounds. So then there are
(24:52):
the buffalo. And apparently what buffalo do is that they
wait for the storm to come and then they charge
directly into the storm. And by doing that, they run
straight through it. They don't run behind it, they don't
run beside it, they don't run with it. They run
straight through it, which actually minimizes their pain, and it
(25:15):
minimizes the time experiencing the pain. They don't turn on happy,
upbeat music to drown out the noise of their reality.
They listen to the sad song. They listen to it
until the lights turned off get turned back on, and
then they can share that song with someone else one day,
who is in the spot that they were once in,
(25:37):
who is sensing the storm, or who is experiencing the storm.
And again, I'm not one who thinks that everyone should
be broadcasting their intimate, private moments on the internet. If
that is what you like to do and it works
for you. It works for you, and that is wonderful.
I am not advocating for us to all do that.
I am not one that generally will do that. But
(26:00):
there are so many ways throughout our days and weeks
and months that we can let our experiences of pain
be a beacon of hope. And my encouragement to those
who have seen the storm pass is to remember that
a conversation you have with a friend can be the
playlist I listened to on repeat for months. And being
(26:21):
vulnerable doesn't just offer you the ability to experience love
and connection, it opens up space for someone else to
experience that too, And if you were the person that's
in the storm, my encouragement to you would be to
be there, but be there knowing that you don't have
to be there alone, and you aren't alone, even if
(26:42):
it feels that way. Our experiences are unique to us,
and they also are always without a doubt in some
way connected to others, and I really want us to
remember that. And that is the glaring message that I
received after actually realizing the lyrics of the song that
(27:04):
I was so drawn to, that we are without a
doubt in our joyful moments and especially in our dark
moments connected to others in some way. But in order
to really really feel that, and to acknowledge that, and
to know that, and to gain the hope that comes
with that, we have to be willing to share parts
(27:28):
of ourselves with people, and we have to be willing
to hear people's stories. So, like I said, if you
are not in the storm right now, know that your
past storms are not in vain. And if you're in
the storm, know that there are people all around you
who have been where you have been. Maybe not exactly
(27:50):
to a tee, but our feelings are all connected. I
hope this was helpful in some way. Like I said
at the beginning of the episode, like I say, every week,
and if you have any thoughts, comments, feelings, questions, feel
free to send those to me Katherine at younedthapy podcast
dot com. Just a reminder that I do a episode
(28:12):
each Wednesday where I answer questions that listeners send to me.
And if you have a question, you can send that
to that email address. Make sure you don't put anything
in that email that you wouldn't want me to share
on the podcast. I won't read your name. I won't
share email address obviously, so we can keep those anonymous.
I will be back with you guys on Wednesday for
(28:33):
couch talks, and until then, I hope you guys are
having the day you need to have
I started to realize that not being an expert isn't
a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know
something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's
probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die
before you die, then you can really live. There's a
wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah,
(00:31):
and I didn't know what to do because there was
no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel
like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat.
I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And
right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope
encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,
(00:54):
and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.
Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of Therapy Podcast.
My name is Kat, I am the host, and quick
reminder before we get into the episode today that although
this podcast is hosted by a therapist and it's called
You Need Therapy, it does not serve as a replacement
(01:16):
or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However,
we always hope that it can be helpful in some
way to you guys. Now, today's episode is a solo episode,
and the idea for it started while I was singing
a song that I realized I didn't actually know the
words to. And I feel like I said that confusingly,
(01:39):
because what I mean is like, have you ever sang
a song or learned a song or memorized the words
for a song and then you realized that you actually
don't even know what the song was, even saying like,
you know the words, but you don't even know what
they mean when shrunk together, and I am hoping that
you guys are saying, oh, yes, I do that, because
(01:59):
I I do that all the time. And I actually
started laughing thinking about, like what other songs I do
or I have done this with. And there are a
lot of songs that I would sang back in let's
say middle school, early ages, maybe even like elementary school
that I had no business singing along too, but I
(02:19):
didn't really know what I was saying. So that still
happens to me as an adult. And I realized it
was happening last week. And I recently became obsessed with
this song called Call Your Mom by Noah Kahan, and
if you don't know who he is. I just did
you a huge favor because he's amazing, and I'm so
(02:41):
jealous that you get to listen to all of his
music for the first time. But I recently became obsessed
with this song called Your Mom and I was listening
on repeat, and I do that a lot with songs,
and then I usually get annoyed with them, so I'm
trying to take it slow with this one. But I
didn't really know why I was obsessed with this song
other than I really liked I don't know the beat
(03:03):
or the mood of the song, and if you don't
know me, I am known to love sad music and
won't get to that later. But anyway, the song eventually
came and made its way into my TikTok algorithm, and
the lyrics were on the video that I was watching,
(03:25):
so I was reading them as I was watching the video,
and I just had this moment of oh my gosh,
I get more why I'm obsessed with this song. And
then I proceeded to put it on my phone and
play it and listen to it over and over because
it almost took on this whole new meaning. And this
is a song that, in my opinion, just opens up
(03:46):
your feelings. And as I was both listening to it
and reading the lyrics, it almost was as if like
this rolodex of my own experiences relating to his words
up and my mind was sifting through them. I could
see I actually am like as I'm saying this and
thinking back on the certain images that popped up as
(04:08):
I was relating to this, and it felt very warm
and cozy, even though a lot of these images that
were popping up were images from a time in my
life that was not my favorite time. And this song
is actually about a friend of his that died by suicide,
and the song talks about showing up and supporting somebody
(04:30):
who's going through really deep, extreme, excruciating pain. And one
of my favorite lines in the song is don't let
this darkness fool you. All the lights turned off can
be turned on. And as I was reading that and
listening to it over and over again, I had this
moment of clarity where I could finally answer this question
(04:54):
that I feel like I've asked myself, and therapist says
have also asked me multiple times, and I've given them
answers I'd given myself answers. But I had this moment
of clarity where I actually know the answer to the question,
what would you go back and tell your younger self
if you got the chance to go back and speak
to them, And it would be that it would just
be that lyric, that sentence right there. Don't let this
(05:17):
darkness fool you. All lights turned off can be turned on. Now.
I've never experienced suicidal ideation myself when I am thinking
about the moments that pop in my head that I
would go back and say those two That's not exactly
what I was going through. But I have been in
places that have felt somewhat like black holes, and I
have had seasons in my life where I thought I
(05:40):
would never feel joy again. And I've had seasons where
I felt sad and I had been tearful and anxious
with no available explanation, which is something that is really
scary to just be tearful and sad all the time
when there isn't anything you can pinpoint or understand or explain. Therefore,
(06:01):
you can't really do certain things to change how you're
feeling because you don't even know what got you there.
And I have learned a lot through those experiences. I'm
not currently going through one of those, however, I know
that that can happen again. But I have learned so
much through those moments of my life. And one of
(06:22):
the most valuable things that I have learned in those
moments is that things change. They can change for the
bad sometimes, but also they get better and they can
change for the good. And if there is one thing
that we can count on, and that I know that
I can count on, is that life will continue to change.
They'll continue to be moments in my life that I
(06:43):
want to savor, and they there will continue to be
moments in my life that I don't want to exist.
Not me wanting to exist, but I don't want those
moments to exist. And this knowing of change and learning
that's inevitable. It has really led me to be able
to be more present in my joyful moments and it
(07:05):
has also, at the same time led me to be
able to curate and grab onto more hope in the
bleak moments. So I used to teach indoor cycling, and
this was a long time ago. I mean, I guess
I quit a year and a half maybe two years ago,
but I taught for like six or seven years and
(07:27):
a long time ago, probably in the first two or
three years of that, I got a review on class Pass,
which is a app and like a membership that you
can buy so you can go to a bunch of
different classes and not just be at one studio or gym.
And at the end of every class, the app prompts
you to review the class and rate the class. And
(07:48):
I got a review one time that said something along
the lines of, she's been playing a lot of sad
music lately. And I think that I actually said, I
love Kat's class, but she's been playing a lot of
sad music lately. And I wish I could have responded
to that review directly, because I would have said, well,
I'm doing that because I'm sad and the music and
(08:11):
the songs that are the most interesting to me right
now are songs that I can connect to and the
ones that I understand, and these are the ones that
I understand right now. And then it turned out I
got kind of a reputation for playing sad, moody music,
and that kind of was what I was known for.
And it's not all I played, obviously, but it was
(08:32):
a staple that you were bound to get if you
came to one of my cycling classes, which I did
not hate that that was what I was known for.
I really liked it. And granted my classes aren't or
weren't because I don't teach anymore, but they weren't for everyone,
just like anyone's class isn't going to be for everyone.
But what I think they did for a lot of
(08:53):
people is it gave them permission to feel the weight
of the human experience, knowing that they weren't doing it
by themselves. And I said earlier, I really do like
listening to sad music, and it's because this weird thing
happens when I listen to those kinds of songs. It
doesn't make me more sad necessarily. It actually feels very
(09:18):
soothing because I'm experiencing this me not being alone in
the moments of pain that I've had when I listen
to those songs. And what I do know is that
it is really difficult to grieve alone, and it kind
of just adds insult to injury. Like I'm already in
this screening process and I'm doing it by myself, and
(09:39):
I feel kind of just like I'm out here on
an island, and what I have experienced. What I have
with the thoughts that have been going on in my
head when I listen to that music, is that if
I'm connecting with what these people are saying or writing,
and they are writing these songs from experiences they have had,
(10:00):
the only way they can put these words together is
because it's something that has happened to them or somebody else,
then that means that other people have been where I am,
and that means that they most likely made it through
some of these times to be able to write this
music or go out and play this music. Or maybe
they are sharing this music from a different moment in
(10:20):
their life. And if they once felt like this and
their life still isn't in that deep hole, then I
have some data that shows that my life will not
always be in this deep hole. I believe that connection
is by far one of the greatest healers and also
(10:42):
one of the greatest soothing agents that we have. It's
why the same songs that I listened to on repeat
while I was crying for hours in my bed thinking
my life would never feel normal again, are also the
same songs that I can listen to in my car
on the way to work and feel refreshed after listening
to and listening to Call Your Mom, which is like,
(11:05):
it's a funny title, but listening to that song didn't
shove me into a pit of depression. It allowed me
to offer myself self compassion, and it allowed me to
offer myself so much gratitude and allowed myself to be
proud of myself and to have perspective. It was so helpful.
But it's not just songs that do that, right. One
(11:30):
of my most memorable therapy sessions ever was one where
a therapist that I was seeing told me a story
that related to what I was going through at the
time and what I walked into her office wanting to
work through. And I kept asking myself if I would
always feel this way? And I probably asked her that
(11:50):
a million times, because I think I blacked out a
lot of our sessions because I was in such an
emotional warfare with myself. However, I remember her telling me
that story. I remember how I was sitting, I remember
I can see her face as she's telling it to me,
and like how she was positioned in her chair, and
(12:12):
her story showed me that there was a possibility that
I wouldn't always feel that way and to be honest.
When she told me her story, I was like, oh, shoot,
like that's worse than the situation I'm in. And she's
sitting here having hope, and she's sitting here living a
life that she's enjoying, and she's sitting here able to
smile and laugh and get through an hour of the
(12:34):
day without crying. Okay. That gives me something to kind
of hold on to, some proof, some data. And there
are a lot of memes or videos just like posts
or things on the internet and social media that have
created a huge fear around sharing our stories of redemption
(12:55):
to those who are struggling. Essentially, these types of I
think you guys will understand what I'm talking about, But
these types of videos are basically posturing that when you
share something about yourself in the midst of someone else's pain,
you're invalidating them in one way or another. And I
like to assume that this comes from a good place,
But what's happened I've seen is that we've somewhat created
(13:18):
barriers to hope and connection through those good intentions, I
believe there is value in allowing somebody to say what
they need to say and vent and have space to
do that. That is theirs to hold and uninterrupted. I
believe in all that, and there's a difference in making
(13:38):
someone else's pain about you and letting someone know they're
not alone. And letting someone know they are not alone
is very powerful. I do think there are some instances
when maybe you don't need to say anything about yourself.
Those are things that are true that there are those things,
but there are also few worse things to hear or
(14:00):
to think because of certain silences. Then I can't relate
to you when you're already feeling alone and lost. And
there are a few things I can think of for
myself at least better to hear or to feel. Then
I get it, and it could be a version of that.
(14:22):
But I have been so thankful for moments in my
life where I have either been told directly or I
have heard through a song or a story or something
a podcast, where a book where I've heard some version
of I get it. And their experience might be different,
but they have felt deep pain and they can show
(14:45):
me that there is possibility for it to get better.
We can validate and relate at the same time, and
that is important that to acknowledge we can validate and
relate to somebody at the same time. They don't have
to be separate experiences, and I think they're possibly more
powerful when they are together. I don't think that there
(15:08):
is just like one phrase or action that can completely
move us out of the darkness of our lives. There
are things that can help. Yes, I don't think that
there is one thing that we can do that takes
us out of the dark parts of our lives. If
there was, I think that we would all be using
that by now, and I would not be having this
conversation with you guys. I do believe they are experiences
(15:31):
that we walk through that allow us to keep seeing
hope up ahead, and that give us enough strength to
take one more step forward until we need the more
strength to take the next step forward. And those experiences
that I'm talking about are the ones where we relate
to someone or someone relates to us, where we feel
understood by someone or where we feel like we understand
(15:53):
someone else. It's the essence of being connected rather than lost,
where our jagged corners we could look at as shattered
and useless pieces, actually becomes spaces that allow someone else's
piece to fit and those experiences that prove that my
ridges and bumps actually make it possible for me to connect,
and my ridges and bumps help other people heal unless
(16:17):
I hide them. Of course. Now this doesn't mean I'm
glorifying the thing that gave me that bump, but it
gives me a way to see meaning in life after
the bump happens. Anyone who listens to this podcast regularly
knows that I have an ever evolving, complicated relationship with
how we share our lives on social media and the
way in which we divulge our insides with random people's outsides.
(16:39):
And while I don't think everything has to be public information,
I also know that when we open up parts of
our stories in healthy ways, so much good comes. It's
the whole idea of where we can see the phoenix
rising from the ashes, right, like something being born new
and beautiful out of something dying, something icky happening or
(17:03):
undesirable happening. I get to see a lot of the
lows of people's lives in my office, which is a
unique experience, and I acknowledge that, and I know that
I have a different view of the human experience because
of that. Now, when I meet people and they ask
me what I do. A very common response is often
one I get are you analyzing me? Or are you
(17:25):
judging me? Oh gosh, don't talk to her. I get
some version of that, and then I get oh, my gosh,
I don't know how you do that. It must be
so hard, like oh my god, are you okay? Like
some version of oh, my goodness, gracious, you have the
hardest job in the world. And while I believe that
our job has its challenges and some days are harder
than others, I actually feel extremely grateful to see the
(17:51):
lows that I see. And this is not because I
like when people are in pain. That's not like a
comfortable experience that I have. It's not it's not warm.
But what I get to do is I get to
watch transformation after transformation. I get to see so many
real stories unfold. I get to see the darkness turned
(18:11):
to light. I get to see the lights turned off
getting turned back on, And that is something that I
think is also very unique and not normal. I have
so many stories outside of the experiences I have from
listening to the music or connecting with friends or connecting
with my own therapist. I have so many stories that
(18:32):
prove to me that we don't always stay in the
dark pits. I have a lot of proof, and I
get to witness a lot of proof that will circle
back and help someone else believe that things get better.
And as I sit across from these people, I come
across a lot of people that I see parts of
me in. And as I sit across from these people,
(18:58):
I come across a lot of people that I see
parts of me in. I see a lot of the
part of me that wanted to know how to make
the pain that I was feeling go away. People looking
for tools, for a protocol, for something tangible to do,
thinking there has to be some kind of recipe, like
(19:18):
you tell, give me the list of the thing I'll
do the things. There has to be some kind of
recipe that cures this ailment I'm feeling, essentially, and I
tend to get both confused and disappointed looks when I
tell them that there is no recipe. It doesn't exist.
But if if one did, it would include being with
(19:40):
your pain, not avoiding it. And there is so much
fruitfulness in being in that pain. That is, without a doubt,
ninety nine point nine percent of the time I get
a cross eyed look after saying something like that to somebody.
And there are things you can do to soothe yourself
as you were in the pain, but there are not
any full per strategies that I've discovered or heard of
(20:03):
that functionally allow you to heal and process your experiences
unless you stay engaged with your experience and in that.
There are certain things that I have to say in
my work that honestly annoy me, and sometimes I'll preface
them with I know this is annoying to hear, and
I'm annoyed with myself for even having to say it.
Sometimes I don't, but sometimes I say that because it
(20:24):
is just that annoying. They feel cheesy, they feel like
they're cliches. They're just like baseline annoying. One of those
things happens to be time helps. It's annoying because from
my experience, it's like, okay, cool, that's not helpful, Like
you telling me that is not helpful. I can't manipulate time.
I can't speed it up, I can't slow it down.
I have no control over that. And it's usually not
(20:47):
something that somebody wants to hear in the midst of pain.
But often what they recalled being an enormous part of
their recovery. Hannah Bruncher, who is a writer and also
has been a guest on the wrote a blog post
a while ago where she talked about something that was
kind of annoying in the same way to her. I'm
(21:09):
going to read what she wrote. She said, I used
to hate when people would liken in quotes going through
a hard time or in quotes transforming to the process
of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly. I thought it
was the stupidest, most overused metaphor out there. I read
somewhere that caterpillars go through something called diapause. Diapause is
(21:34):
the spot in the transformation process where some caterpillars tried
desperately to cling to their larva life. They don't want
to change, they try to resist it. I think that's
probably because they have no idea what's coming up ahead.
They have no idea that there could actually be something
better at the end of themselves. They hate the fact
(21:57):
that darkness could be good for them now. This actually
reminds me of a Mary Oliver quote that someone shared
with me when I was going through a time in
my life where my emotional pain felt unwavering, like it
felt the most excruciating. And the quote is someone I
(22:18):
loved once gave me a box full of darkness. It
took me years to understand that this too was a gift.
And honestly, when they told me that quote, I didn't
get it. I didn't understand it. It didn't make sense to
me until it actually started making sense. And it's what
Hannah wrote. We hate the fact that darkness can be
(22:40):
good for us. And what I am not saying here
is that your trauma or abuse was good for you.
That is a separate, more nuanced conversation where we can
separate the experience from creating meaning and life after the experience.
But I do believe that darkness and struggle and the
time we spend in that space can be fruitful for us,
can be helpful. And this is in part why you
(23:03):
can't bypass pain by finding meaning, because it is in
the pain that creates the space to find the meaning.
Hiding or running away from your feelings, finding a way
to avoid them or to get rid of them, doesn't
make things better. It actually just turns our pain into suffering.
And we are in charge of that. We actually control that,
(23:25):
which makes me think of something else that I heard
from Hannah Brncher. I heard it first years ago, and
I don't remember if I heard it she wrote about
it in one of her books, or if it was
in one of her talks that I watched a video
on YouTube of, or if it was in her newsletter.
I don't remember where it was from, but I remember
I first heard the story from her and it stuck
(23:47):
with me. And Amy Brown actually shared this somewhat recently
on her podcast for Things with Amy Brown, so it's
making its way around the world. But what I'm talking
about is the metaphor regarding buffalos, and if you haven't
heard of it, Apparently, when Cal's sends a storm is coming,
they tend to run away from the storm, and they
(24:09):
continue to attempt to outrun the storm, which then results
in them running with the storm, which to my knowledge,
cows are slow, So it's funny to think that they
think that this tactic would be helpful. In reality, what
happens is that by doing this they multiply the time
and the energy that is being spent by them trying
to get away. They actually stay in it longer, and
(24:32):
the pain is larger. But that's also human nature. We
sense pain and we say, hey, how do I run
from this? How do I make this go away? And
our avoidance of our pain and discomfort is the very
thing that makes our experience worse. Our attempt to flee
is what actually creates deeper wounds. So then there are
(24:52):
the buffalo. And apparently what buffalo do is that they
wait for the storm to come and then they charge
directly into the storm. And by doing that, they run
straight through it. They don't run behind it, they don't
run beside it, they don't run with it. They run
straight through it, which actually minimizes their pain, and it
(25:15):
minimizes the time experiencing the pain. They don't turn on happy,
upbeat music to drown out the noise of their reality.
They listen to the sad song. They listen to it
until the lights turned off get turned back on, and
then they can share that song with someone else one day,
who is in the spot that they were once in,
(25:37):
who is sensing the storm, or who is experiencing the storm.
And again, I'm not one who thinks that everyone should
be broadcasting their intimate, private moments on the internet. If
that is what you like to do and it works
for you. It works for you, and that is wonderful.
I am not advocating for us to all do that.
I am not one that generally will do that. But
(26:00):
there are so many ways throughout our days and weeks
and months that we can let our experiences of pain
be a beacon of hope. And my encouragement to those
who have seen the storm pass is to remember that
a conversation you have with a friend can be the
playlist I listened to on repeat for months. And being
(26:21):
vulnerable doesn't just offer you the ability to experience love
and connection, it opens up space for someone else to
experience that too, And if you were the person that's
in the storm, my encouragement to you would be to
be there, but be there knowing that you don't have
to be there alone, and you aren't alone, even if
(26:42):
it feels that way. Our experiences are unique to us,
and they also are always without a doubt in some
way connected to others, and I really want us to
remember that. And that is the glaring message that I
received after actually realizing the lyrics of the song that
(27:04):
I was so drawn to, that we are without a
doubt in our joyful moments and especially in our dark
moments connected to others in some way. But in order
to really really feel that, and to acknowledge that, and
to know that, and to gain the hope that comes
with that, we have to be willing to share parts
(27:28):
of ourselves with people, and we have to be willing
to hear people's stories. So, like I said, if you
are not in the storm right now, know that your
past storms are not in vain. And if you're in
the storm, know that there are people all around you
who have been where you have been. Maybe not exactly
(27:50):
to a tee, but our feelings are all connected. I
hope this was helpful in some way. Like I said
at the beginning of the episode, like I say, every week,
and if you have any thoughts, comments, feelings, questions, feel
free to send those to me Katherine at younedthapy podcast
dot com. Just a reminder that I do a episode
(28:12):
each Wednesday where I answer questions that listeners send to me.
And if you have a question, you can send that
to that email address. Make sure you don't put anything
in that email that you wouldn't want me to share
on the podcast. I won't read your name. I won't
share email address obviously, so we can keep those anonymous.
I will be back with you guys on Wednesday for
(28:33):
couch talks, and until then, I hope you guys are
having the day you need to have
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