March 7, 2024 • 28 mins
This week, a 28-year-old man vents about a friend group that has one bad apple who is spoiling the bunch. Due to years of crude and offensive humor and a lack of social awareness, this friend is making it hard to enjoy the group dynamic. Nedra gives permission to make those uncomfortable choices to preserve a bond.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi listeners, welcome back. I'm nedrig Glover to wib and
you need to hear this. Sometimes the relationships that we
needed at eighteen years old, they don't translate to the
relationships we might need at twenty six years old, right,
(00:22):
And there are times when we hang on a little
bit longer than we need to, and it starts to
impact the relationship dynamic. There are some people who grow
with us and their lives reflect some of the changes
that we're making. And there are some people who remain
(00:45):
themselves And that's okay, it's not necessarily problematic, but it
is a problem for the relationship. When we stay in
those situations that are no longer fitted for where we
are in life, be really challenging to the progress we're
trying to make. Sometimes, letting those relationships go it is
(01:10):
a reflection of honoring the good parts of that relationship
and not trying to change people. There are some relationships
that I've had that I think, oh my gosh, that
was that was a wonderful relationship in high school. At
my big age, it may not be a wonderful relationship.
(01:33):
We may not have you know, the same music preferences anymore.
We certainly may not have the same hobbies in life,
and that is okay. It's okay to have those relationships
where we say that was a good time. We can
really mess stuff up when we're trying to continue things
(01:55):
and it's like it's not even good anymore. I think
about that sometimes when I'm watching a series, and you know,
sometimes you get to a point in a TV show
where you're like, you know, season eight, they could have
stopped this in season six, they could have left on
a high note. I would have rather that they left
(02:20):
this series when I was all in, because now I'm
not even in a hurry to watch it anymore. It's
not even that good. I watch it after I watch
everything else that I love, because this is just okay now.
And in some of our relationships, that's where it is.
It's like, this is a just okay friendship, This is
a just okay relationship with cousins so and so, and
(02:45):
maybe two seasons ago in our life we needed to
release it, or we needed to maybe step back and
speak to this person once a year, or speak to
them quarterly, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
But there are.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Times when we are taking things too far for too long.
So in today's letter. I'm sure you've guessed it. It
is a condition of you know, saying in something maybe
a little longer than we need to, and when we're
not ready to leave, we have to remember that the
(03:20):
only solution is not cutting someone off. There are other solutions.
Cutting back is also an option, right, not the cut off,
but the cutback, and so we'll explore some options in
today's call.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Let's get started.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Hi, I'm a twenty eight year old man, and I
have had and built my current friend groups since I
was around fifteen years old. It's a combination of people
I've met through video games and chat rooms, as well
as some folks we've collectively brought in from our respective
colleges and other friend groups have cultivated. What I'm really
struggling with is that at least one person is kind
(03:58):
of infecting the site of our group and pushing people
away at the same time. Most outsiders would view this
guy as racist, homophobic, just generally a bad dude, and
that's not really the problem I have with him, as
most of us actually in the group understand that this
is in jest. He's been more on the dark humor
side since I met him. When I was around nineteen.
(04:20):
By that age, I think most team guys have grown
out of the edgy humor phase, but it always just
seemed to be how he actually is and part of
his true personality, rather than some phase we all went
through before really developing empathy and learning how to be yourself.
I myself identify as bisexual, and I'm one of the
three of us of non white ethnicities, me being the
(04:40):
only non half white ones, so they see me as
an authority on that kind of thing, and if things
are offensive, My problem sort of begins where this kind
of joking doesn't know it's time or place. It's hard
to bring women around, specifically because every single one of
the girlfriends of our friends also end up hating him
for his humor and degrading an and that it's a
(05:02):
big thing that he's known for in a large part
of the overall friend dynamic.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
See I said today's lesson was about keeping people around
for too long.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The puzzling part here for me is most people outgrow this.
Outgrowing is an assumption, right. We think that certain things
with people are a face, and as you can see,
some things might just be a part of who they are.
It might be a phase for you, but it's a
lifestyle for someone else. And you know, some of this
(05:35):
teasing and that sort of thing, When that's the way
that you've predominantly been able to get support and accolades
and encouragement, why would you stop it. You know, people
think it's funny. Even if it's an awkward laugh, it's
a laugh. And so this idea that this person would
(05:57):
outgrow something that's actually benefiting them. Perhaps they don't. They
don't see themselves. We see them, and so it's really
important to remember that the reflection that you see of
people is not always the idea they have of themselves.
As I hear you talking about this, I wonder what
(06:22):
would one on one contact look like versus being in
a group setting with this person. It's very important that
we protect our people, and sometimes we are so concerned
with how the offensive person might be offended that we
protect them and we don't protect the other folks in
(06:44):
the group.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And it sounds like this.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Person is having an impact on the group, So there
is some protection needed for everyone, and your role as
the person who sees the issue clearly you're trying to
work through it. Sometimes your inclusion of this person is
actually more problematic than the exclusion of this person. So
(07:09):
consider ways in which you might want to protect the
overall dynamics of the group and the other people in
the group. Another thing that I'm wondering here is when
we are willing to deal with things with certain people,
(07:30):
what about that makes it okay for other people to
deal with it? Like, it's one thing if I can
tolerate oh my gosh, this person is making me jokes.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Ha ha ha ha.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Ha, Right, but what I tolerate may not be appropriate
for other people. You know, what I listen to might
not be appropriate for other people. And so if you're
noticing that in general, this person is problematic. Again, that
protection piece, We're going to keep coming back to that,
because it's not just about you protecting you, it's about
(08:04):
protecting everyone else in the space as well. Because you
are the facilitator of this group experience. You are the host,
and so how do you host the gathering? How do
you be in community with this person, perhaps on a
one to one basis, and not infect everyone else with
(08:25):
what they're doing. We're going to go to break and
we'll be back.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
We have these huge get togethers around once a year
where we go camping or rarely like a big trip
to a city. I've invited my younger brother along with us,
and even someone that I was romantically interested into these
things because I just genuinely love these people so much.
The one time I brought a guy that I was
talking to to this outing, this friend made some uncomfortable
jokes about some crude things to do with gay men.
(08:57):
Wasn't directed towards us, but this person that I was
interested in did end up feeling like he wasn't really
welcome to stay. I ended up talking him down and
he was pretty understanding, but someone else's girlfriend found it
so rude and disgusting that she yelled and caused a
whole scene, making the rest of the trip pretty uncomfortable
when the four of us were in the same room.
(09:17):
So I guess it's not really him directly causing a
rift in our group dynamic, but the things he says
and does can cause a chain reaction of problems. My
younger brother has felt some discomfort too, and that makes
me especially upset because I've always been protective of him.
As well as this, he does make scenes in public
and tends to pull in appropriate pranks on both our
(09:39):
friends as well as innocent workers and stores, etc. For example,
he'll pretend to not speak English when interacting with workers,
but speak fake Spanish in a heavy American accent, making
it clear he speaks English but toys with the worker's
patience and intelligence. Or he'll tell waiters that a friend
thinks they're attractive when they haven't even said anything about that.
(10:00):
He's even done this to a friend who's engaged. And
like I said earlier, I feel like this kind of
behavior is spreading through the group a bit. Some of
our friends are a bit younger, and I can tell
that they try to impress this friend or just take
on some of his jokes when they originally did an
act like that when we first became acquainted.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You know, as I'm listening to this, I am becoming
aware of my response to the examples of this behavior.
And it feels offensive to me to make fun of
someone's language, to pick on strangers, to disrupt, you know,
(10:45):
the group dynamics so much that you're now making uncomfortable
jokes about someone's dating and.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know, just all of these things.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And I hear you, you know, putting that situation on
other part, Oh, well, this other person, they got upset
and they caused this commotion with him. But it's like
it sounds like she was tired of it to the
point of, hey, somebody has to address this person. This
needs to be handled now. Perhaps she didn't do it
(11:17):
in the best way, but she did something. Laughing things
off is a sign that we are uncomfortable with conversation,
and so in many cases we will let people get
away with saying terrible things, or making inappropriate gestures, or
(11:41):
just doing all sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And our communication of.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Is not sending the message that it's not okay, it
is inappropriate. Now, that may not stop someone's behavior, but
if you have someone who's making jokes about homosexuals and
you just even a that's inappropriate? Why would you say
(12:11):
that about a community that you know, I'm a part of?
How do you think it? You know, may make someone
feel to hear you say that about them.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You know, there are so many different ways we can
handle these situations, but laughing it off is not the
appropriate response as a way to avoid some sort of offensiveness,
because what happens is it encourages the inappropriate behavior.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
They're not even.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Told hey, don't say that. And let's say that you're saying, like, man,
you shouldn't say stuff like that. Even that tone is
laughing it off. There needs to be some seriousness in
the way that you say things to people.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
There's a lot of jokes about how parents would let
you know that you're you know, this is serious. It
could be a look, It could be a certain tone
of the voice.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Sometimes it was the way my mother called my name,
you know, she said a full name is like oh attention, right,
Like how how is this person able to distinguish between
like joke and serious? In your discomfort, you are sort
(13:32):
of participating and keeping it going. There's a saying one
bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. And as I think
about this, I think about the strawberries and my refrigerator
that I discover. You know, you find a little mold
on one, and guess what, you come back the next
day five are covered in mo You come back the
(13:54):
next day, have to container, and so on and so forth.
So maybe a bad apple doesn't spoil bunch, but some
bad fruit in a bunch does spoil the whole basket.
Him being in this situation with people of varying maturity levels,
varying experiences. It is dangerous for a group dynamic because
(14:19):
what happens is it creates the group culture. There are
so there are so many you know, articles and books
on this, Like group culture is really important. You think
about in a workplace, if everybody is this grun told
and a happy person comes in, eventually this happy person
has to be less happy or they have to leave
(14:40):
the space. They can't stand that environment because they have
to be a part of the environment. So if you
have someone infecting a group dynamic, yeah, everybody else kind
of has to join in to be a part of that,
or you will have people leaving because they don't want
to be a part of it. I want to share
(15:00):
a quote from the book The Art of Gathering. You
will have begun to gather with purpose when you learn
to exclude with purpose, when you learn.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
To close doors.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Everyone cannot be a part of the gathering. They cannot
be a part of the group, They cannot be a
part of the clique. That's why we have the word group.
We wouldn't have the word group if everybody could be
in it, it would be called everybody. So this group,
(15:36):
what is the tone of the group. What is the
purpose of the group, What is the vibe of the group?
If it's to gather, be respectful, have a great time,
celebrate moments in life, how is this person.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Contributing to the role of the group.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It sounds like there is it's something.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
They're taken away from it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
It doesn't sound like a value add So it's not that,
oh my gosh, I can't have a relationship with this person.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
But perhaps this.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Person doesn't need to be in the group dynamic. Perhaps
there is, you know, another setting and which you need
to be involved. Maybe you can go hang out with
this person in their group. Maybe there's a group of
totally offensive people that they hang out with and you
want to be a.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Part of that group.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But as for your group, it sounds like there is
a mismatch and fit.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
This guy doesn't seem to understand that there's a time
and place for things, and it's a bit embarrassing, especially
because we're nearing thirty, starting families, et cetera. I want
to preserve what the friendship is because it's a really
special bond between us, But at the same time, I'm
starting to think this is unacceptable and I don't really
want to be closely associated with him and lose other
(16:58):
friends and acquaintances as we age. If I could, I
would probably break off the friendship with him, but it's
just not my decision to make, and there are only
one or two others who feel similarly to me about him.
He'll always be around and at our functions and when
we're talking one on one. He's actually a pretty smart
and good guy, but it's impossible to get through out
(17:19):
to him about his behavior when he's getting egged on
or is excited, etc. I'm not sure how to preserve
our friend group dynamic while at the same time not
pushing away other people or having this gross mindset be
all the groups about. Just wanted to try my shot
at getting any advice. Thanks for any help you may have.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I'm hearing more of a reason for a one on one.
There are some people who just don't fit the tone
of a setting, and it doesn't mean that they can't
be in the setting, but you can't be in this group.
We only want the best kickers on this team. So
it sounds like you are good with hands, not feet.
You know, it's okay to have a little bit of
(18:01):
a value system for the groups that we're in or
to have some similarities of people. That's what makes it
a group. And if this person no longer fits into
what the group is about, spend some time with them
one on one, get to know them in a different setting.
(18:22):
I want to say here that you know, I think
sometimes the way that some folks social anxiety shows up
is in the way of being overactive in a group dynamic,
maybe having a little bit too much to drink and
becoming like this funny, offensive person. Like that's the way
(18:46):
that I know how to show up and be comfortable
and just kind of sitting back and letting everybody talk
and somebody else, you know, kind of manage the conversation.
Can be a challenge. Now, I'm not giving this person
an outer or man excuse. I'm just adding a reason, right, Like,
there could be some other things going on, So he
(19:07):
just might not be good in a group dynamic and
might be a great guy. You'll have to find that
out by building this one on one relationship with him.
But what you will not do is come in and
spoil the rest of my blueberries, because we have to
pluck you out of here. We have to keep this
(19:28):
whole curtain fresh, and so you've got to go. Now
where you go, we can decide maybe, you know, there
is some other space for us. Maybe there are you know,
one or two people from this group, and then you
start another group, or maybe it's just you and this
fella and you figure out what the relationship is at
this point. It is great to have historical relationships. I
(19:53):
love them. I mean, I have a few friends I
could call right now and we can have a our long,
key key about Remember that time that girl drop that
book off your desk and you said, oh my gosh, oh,
I love a good historical friendship where we could just
you know, we could talk about these things. Are these
(20:15):
things that are in the past, nobody else understands. They're
so funny to us, even you know, sometimes we'll try
to pull other people into the story and it's just
not funny to them.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
They were not there.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
They don't have context, so it's not the same. But
I get it. You know, the stories and the situations
you've been through with certain people. It is a huge
part of the relationship. There is someone else, though, who
holds that history, and if not, you may have to
get into the retelling of some old stories because keeping
(20:52):
this person because they know that nineteen year old, twenty
year old version of you, and it's no longer a
good fit for who you are at twenty eight. You know,
it compose a challenge. You know, what happens when you
all are thirty two, What happens when you're forty? What
happens if someone has kids and you have to bring
this person around who's saying ruda inappropriate? You know, like,
(21:15):
I think it could get, you know, worse in some
ways if it's not a situation that's really addressed head
on the passive, you know, sort of, Oh, this is humor.
I have a really good sense of humor. I mean
from I watch all sorts of comedy, from the Office
(21:39):
to Curb Your Enthusiasm to Kat Williams to Kevin Hart. Like,
I love humor, and I think sometimes when we are
in one on one conversations, we take mean comments as
humor because we don't want to believe that this person
(21:59):
is actually mean. I don't think that Kevin Hart is
being mean to his friends and family, Like I think
he's telling jokes, and he's probably telling them on stage,
but he's not actually making comments about somebody's you know,
(22:20):
I hope not, you know, because that's not a good joke.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
It's just me.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
It's not a good joke. And the humor in it
is discomfort. It's like, because we do laugh when it's uncomfortable,
it's like, what else do you do? Sometimes we just
stand there, we stare at people. But there are other
times where we laugh to sort of deflect. But that
laughing is really like encouragement. Let's stop looking at mean
(22:47):
comments as humor statements. There is a big difference. And
I'm trying to be harmful and I'm trying to be funny.
There are some things that people are saying that make
us uncomfortable. We're unwilling to confront them, and so we
(23:11):
try to laugh it off.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
There is.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Space for us to have some uncomfortable conversations with people
that might make us more uncomfortable. Right, we will be
the person who's like, now we want to laugh because
we're so uncomfortable. But it is necessary. We cannot avoid
(23:38):
these hard topics with people because what happens is it's
been nine years. It's turned into nine years of this
person being a group offender. It has gone from oh
my gosh, he's saying these things and we're teenagers and
it's a little bit funny to wow, he is really
(23:59):
offending people. You ended your letter with, I'm not sure
how to preserve our friend group dynamic while at the
same time not pushing away other people or having this
gross mindset be what all the group is about.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Sure you'll be able to do both in this situation,
preserve the group and have this person in it. It
sounds like you've been doing that for nine years and
it hasn't worked. And when something doesn't work, we are
called to do a new thing, even when we don't
want to do that new thing. It would be unwise
(24:43):
of us to continue to do something in the same
way expecting a different result.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And sometimes we.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Do that because doing anything just a little bit different
is a huge discomfort. It is, you know, it's a
huge discomfort to say every year we have this, you know,
big Saint Patrick's blowout, and this year.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
We're not inviting him.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Just this year, we're not sending him our location, we
won't mention it, we will ghost the group chat.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You know, like it will be.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Uncomfortable, I'm sure, not just for you, but for everyone. Else,
there will be questions around where's we're so and so,
where so and so like it will happen, but over
time it will be a much easier process. We have
experienced so many uncomfortable things.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I have a very vivid memory of my first day
of ninth grade. I obsessed over what to wearsessed over
what to wear. I remember uncomfortable. This was a new
school in a new neighborhood. It was ugh. I survived it.
(26:06):
I am here to say that I did ninth grade,
tenth grade, twelfth grade, and I went to college. You know,
many new experiences. So you know I have a wealth
of discomfort under my belt, and so do you. This
is just another thing. You are well trained in discomfort,
and it's something that you can manage. Even though it
(26:30):
feels very overwhelming to do a new thing in this situation,
it's something you can manage. I have full confidence that
you know there's a way for you to preserve this
relationship and continue on in a healthy group dynamic.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
You need to hear this.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Perhaps the solution is not to cut someone off, but
maybe there's a way to cut act on the relationship.
We have to figure out a healthy rhythm of what
works when we want to be in relationships with people
(27:13):
that are no longer meeting our needs or with people
who we have some challenges with but we deeply love.
It doesn't mean that we can't have the relationship, but
it is a question of how can I be in
this relationship? You need to hear This is an iHeart
(27:37):
production hosted by me Nedra Glover to wob Our executive
producer is Joe L. Barnique. Our senior producer and editor
is Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with
your questions about boundaries and relationships at you need to
Hear This at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to
(27:58):
rate our show wherever you listen to it, and share
this episode with someone who needs to hear this. Talk
to you next time.
Hi listeners, welcome back. I'm nedrig Glover to wib and
you need to hear this. Sometimes the relationships that we
needed at eighteen years old, they don't translate to the
relationships we might need at twenty six years old, right,
(00:22):
And there are times when we hang on a little
bit longer than we need to, and it starts to
impact the relationship dynamic. There are some people who grow
with us and their lives reflect some of the changes
that we're making. And there are some people who remain
(00:45):
themselves And that's okay, it's not necessarily problematic, but it
is a problem for the relationship. When we stay in
those situations that are no longer fitted for where we
are in life, be really challenging to the progress we're
trying to make. Sometimes, letting those relationships go it is
(01:10):
a reflection of honoring the good parts of that relationship
and not trying to change people. There are some relationships
that I've had that I think, oh my gosh, that
was that was a wonderful relationship in high school. At
my big age, it may not be a wonderful relationship.
(01:33):
We may not have you know, the same music preferences anymore.
We certainly may not have the same hobbies in life,
and that is okay. It's okay to have those relationships
where we say that was a good time. We can
really mess stuff up when we're trying to continue things
(01:55):
and it's like it's not even good anymore. I think
about that sometimes when I'm watching a series, and you know,
sometimes you get to a point in a TV show
where you're like, you know, season eight, they could have
stopped this in season six, they could have left on
a high note. I would have rather that they left
(02:20):
this series when I was all in, because now I'm
not even in a hurry to watch it anymore. It's
not even that good. I watch it after I watch
everything else that I love, because this is just okay now.
And in some of our relationships, that's where it is.
It's like, this is a just okay friendship, This is
a just okay relationship with cousins so and so, and
(02:45):
maybe two seasons ago in our life we needed to
release it, or we needed to maybe step back and
speak to this person once a year, or speak to
them quarterly, or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
But there are.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Times when we are taking things too far for too long.
So in today's letter. I'm sure you've guessed it. It
is a condition of you know, saying in something maybe
a little longer than we need to, and when we're
not ready to leave, we have to remember that the
(03:20):
only solution is not cutting someone off. There are other solutions.
Cutting back is also an option, right, not the cut off,
but the cutback, and so we'll explore some options in
today's call.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Let's get started.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Hi, I'm a twenty eight year old man, and I
have had and built my current friend groups since I
was around fifteen years old. It's a combination of people
I've met through video games and chat rooms, as well
as some folks we've collectively brought in from our respective
colleges and other friend groups have cultivated. What I'm really
struggling with is that at least one person is kind
(03:58):
of infecting the site of our group and pushing people
away at the same time. Most outsiders would view this
guy as racist, homophobic, just generally a bad dude, and
that's not really the problem I have with him, as
most of us actually in the group understand that this
is in jest. He's been more on the dark humor
side since I met him. When I was around nineteen.
(04:20):
By that age, I think most team guys have grown
out of the edgy humor phase, but it always just
seemed to be how he actually is and part of
his true personality, rather than some phase we all went
through before really developing empathy and learning how to be yourself.
I myself identify as bisexual, and I'm one of the
three of us of non white ethnicities, me being the
(04:40):
only non half white ones, so they see me as
an authority on that kind of thing, and if things
are offensive, My problem sort of begins where this kind
of joking doesn't know it's time or place. It's hard
to bring women around, specifically because every single one of
the girlfriends of our friends also end up hating him
for his humor and degrading an and that it's a
(05:02):
big thing that he's known for in a large part
of the overall friend dynamic.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
See I said today's lesson was about keeping people around
for too long.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
The puzzling part here for me is most people outgrow this.
Outgrowing is an assumption, right. We think that certain things
with people are a face, and as you can see,
some things might just be a part of who they are.
It might be a phase for you, but it's a
lifestyle for someone else. And you know, some of this
(05:35):
teasing and that sort of thing, When that's the way
that you've predominantly been able to get support and accolades
and encouragement, why would you stop it. You know, people
think it's funny. Even if it's an awkward laugh, it's
a laugh. And so this idea that this person would
(05:57):
outgrow something that's actually benefiting them. Perhaps they don't. They
don't see themselves. We see them, and so it's really
important to remember that the reflection that you see of
people is not always the idea they have of themselves.
As I hear you talking about this, I wonder what
(06:22):
would one on one contact look like versus being in
a group setting with this person. It's very important that
we protect our people, and sometimes we are so concerned
with how the offensive person might be offended that we
protect them and we don't protect the other folks in
(06:44):
the group.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
And it sounds like this.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Person is having an impact on the group, So there
is some protection needed for everyone, and your role as
the person who sees the issue clearly you're trying to
work through it. Sometimes your inclusion of this person is
actually more problematic than the exclusion of this person. So
(07:09):
consider ways in which you might want to protect the
overall dynamics of the group and the other people in
the group. Another thing that I'm wondering here is when
we are willing to deal with things with certain people,
(07:30):
what about that makes it okay for other people to
deal with it? Like, it's one thing if I can
tolerate oh my gosh, this person is making me jokes.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Ha ha ha ha.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Ha, Right, but what I tolerate may not be appropriate
for other people. You know, what I listen to might
not be appropriate for other people. And so if you're
noticing that in general, this person is problematic. Again, that
protection piece, We're going to keep coming back to that,
because it's not just about you protecting you, it's about
(08:04):
protecting everyone else in the space as well. Because you
are the facilitator of this group experience. You are the host,
and so how do you host the gathering? How do
you be in community with this person, perhaps on a
one to one basis, and not infect everyone else with
(08:25):
what they're doing. We're going to go to break and
we'll be back.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
We have these huge get togethers around once a year
where we go camping or rarely like a big trip
to a city. I've invited my younger brother along with us,
and even someone that I was romantically interested into these
things because I just genuinely love these people so much.
The one time I brought a guy that I was
talking to to this outing, this friend made some uncomfortable
jokes about some crude things to do with gay men.
(08:57):
Wasn't directed towards us, but this person that I was
interested in did end up feeling like he wasn't really
welcome to stay. I ended up talking him down and
he was pretty understanding, but someone else's girlfriend found it
so rude and disgusting that she yelled and caused a
whole scene, making the rest of the trip pretty uncomfortable
when the four of us were in the same room.
(09:17):
So I guess it's not really him directly causing a
rift in our group dynamic, but the things he says
and does can cause a chain reaction of problems. My
younger brother has felt some discomfort too, and that makes
me especially upset because I've always been protective of him.
As well as this, he does make scenes in public
and tends to pull in appropriate pranks on both our
(09:39):
friends as well as innocent workers and stores, etc. For example,
he'll pretend to not speak English when interacting with workers,
but speak fake Spanish in a heavy American accent, making
it clear he speaks English but toys with the worker's
patience and intelligence. Or he'll tell waiters that a friend
thinks they're attractive when they haven't even said anything about that.
(10:00):
He's even done this to a friend who's engaged. And
like I said earlier, I feel like this kind of
behavior is spreading through the group a bit. Some of
our friends are a bit younger, and I can tell
that they try to impress this friend or just take
on some of his jokes when they originally did an
act like that when we first became acquainted.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
You know, as I'm listening to this, I am becoming
aware of my response to the examples of this behavior.
And it feels offensive to me to make fun of
someone's language, to pick on strangers, to disrupt, you know,
(10:45):
the group dynamics so much that you're now making uncomfortable
jokes about someone's dating and.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
You know, just all of these things.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
And I hear you, you know, putting that situation on
other part, Oh, well, this other person, they got upset
and they caused this commotion with him. But it's like
it sounds like she was tired of it to the
point of, hey, somebody has to address this person. This
needs to be handled now. Perhaps she didn't do it
(11:17):
in the best way, but she did something. Laughing things
off is a sign that we are uncomfortable with conversation,
and so in many cases we will let people get
away with saying terrible things, or making inappropriate gestures, or
(11:41):
just doing all sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
And our communication of.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Is not sending the message that it's not okay, it
is inappropriate. Now, that may not stop someone's behavior, but
if you have someone who's making jokes about homosexuals and
you just even a that's inappropriate? Why would you say
(12:11):
that about a community that you know, I'm a part of?
How do you think it? You know, may make someone
feel to hear you say that about them.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
You know, there are so many different ways we can
handle these situations, but laughing it off is not the
appropriate response as a way to avoid some sort of offensiveness,
because what happens is it encourages the inappropriate behavior.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
They're not even.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Told hey, don't say that. And let's say that you're saying, like, man,
you shouldn't say stuff like that. Even that tone is
laughing it off. There needs to be some seriousness in
the way that you say things to people.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
There's a lot of jokes about how parents would let
you know that you're you know, this is serious. It
could be a look, It could be a certain tone
of the voice.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Sometimes it was the way my mother called my name,
you know, she said a full name is like oh attention, right,
Like how how is this person able to distinguish between
like joke and serious? In your discomfort, you are sort
(13:32):
of participating and keeping it going. There's a saying one
bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch. And as I think
about this, I think about the strawberries and my refrigerator
that I discover. You know, you find a little mold
on one, and guess what, you come back the next
day five are covered in mo You come back the
(13:54):
next day, have to container, and so on and so forth.
So maybe a bad apple doesn't spoil bunch, but some
bad fruit in a bunch does spoil the whole basket.
Him being in this situation with people of varying maturity levels,
varying experiences. It is dangerous for a group dynamic because
(14:19):
what happens is it creates the group culture. There are
so there are so many you know, articles and books
on this, Like group culture is really important. You think
about in a workplace, if everybody is this grun told
and a happy person comes in, eventually this happy person
has to be less happy or they have to leave
(14:40):
the space. They can't stand that environment because they have
to be a part of the environment. So if you
have someone infecting a group dynamic, yeah, everybody else kind
of has to join in to be a part of that,
or you will have people leaving because they don't want
to be a part of it. I want to share
(15:00):
a quote from the book The Art of Gathering. You
will have begun to gather with purpose when you learn
to exclude with purpose, when you learn.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
To close doors.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Everyone cannot be a part of the gathering. They cannot
be a part of the group, They cannot be a
part of the clique. That's why we have the word group.
We wouldn't have the word group if everybody could be
in it, it would be called everybody. So this group,
(15:36):
what is the tone of the group. What is the
purpose of the group, What is the vibe of the group?
If it's to gather, be respectful, have a great time,
celebrate moments in life, how is this person.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Contributing to the role of the group.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It sounds like there is it's something.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
They're taken away from it.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
It doesn't sound like a value add So it's not that,
oh my gosh, I can't have a relationship with this person.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
But perhaps this.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Person doesn't need to be in the group dynamic. Perhaps
there is, you know, another setting and which you need
to be involved. Maybe you can go hang out with
this person in their group. Maybe there's a group of
totally offensive people that they hang out with and you
want to be a.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Part of that group.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
But as for your group, it sounds like there is
a mismatch and fit.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
This guy doesn't seem to understand that there's a time
and place for things, and it's a bit embarrassing, especially
because we're nearing thirty, starting families, et cetera. I want
to preserve what the friendship is because it's a really
special bond between us, But at the same time, I'm
starting to think this is unacceptable and I don't really
want to be closely associated with him and lose other
(16:58):
friends and acquaintances as we age. If I could, I
would probably break off the friendship with him, but it's
just not my decision to make, and there are only
one or two others who feel similarly to me about him.
He'll always be around and at our functions and when
we're talking one on one. He's actually a pretty smart
and good guy, but it's impossible to get through out
(17:19):
to him about his behavior when he's getting egged on
or is excited, etc. I'm not sure how to preserve
our friend group dynamic while at the same time not
pushing away other people or having this gross mindset be
all the groups about. Just wanted to try my shot
at getting any advice. Thanks for any help you may have.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
I'm hearing more of a reason for a one on one.
There are some people who just don't fit the tone
of a setting, and it doesn't mean that they can't
be in the setting, but you can't be in this group.
We only want the best kickers on this team. So
it sounds like you are good with hands, not feet.
You know, it's okay to have a little bit of
(18:01):
a value system for the groups that we're in or
to have some similarities of people. That's what makes it
a group. And if this person no longer fits into
what the group is about, spend some time with them
one on one, get to know them in a different setting.
(18:22):
I want to say here that you know, I think
sometimes the way that some folks social anxiety shows up
is in the way of being overactive in a group dynamic,
maybe having a little bit too much to drink and
becoming like this funny, offensive person. Like that's the way
(18:46):
that I know how to show up and be comfortable
and just kind of sitting back and letting everybody talk
and somebody else, you know, kind of manage the conversation.
Can be a challenge. Now, I'm not giving this person
an outer or man excuse. I'm just adding a reason, right, Like,
there could be some other things going on, So he
(19:07):
just might not be good in a group dynamic and
might be a great guy. You'll have to find that
out by building this one on one relationship with him.
But what you will not do is come in and
spoil the rest of my blueberries, because we have to
pluck you out of here. We have to keep this
(19:28):
whole curtain fresh, and so you've got to go. Now
where you go, we can decide maybe, you know, there
is some other space for us. Maybe there are you know,
one or two people from this group, and then you
start another group, or maybe it's just you and this
fella and you figure out what the relationship is at
this point. It is great to have historical relationships. I
(19:53):
love them. I mean, I have a few friends I
could call right now and we can have a our long,
key key about Remember that time that girl drop that
book off your desk and you said, oh my gosh, oh,
I love a good historical friendship where we could just
you know, we could talk about these things. Are these
(20:15):
things that are in the past, nobody else understands. They're
so funny to us, even you know, sometimes we'll try
to pull other people into the story and it's just
not funny to them.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
They were not there.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
They don't have context, so it's not the same. But
I get it. You know, the stories and the situations
you've been through with certain people. It is a huge
part of the relationship. There is someone else, though, who
holds that history, and if not, you may have to
get into the retelling of some old stories because keeping
(20:52):
this person because they know that nineteen year old, twenty
year old version of you, and it's no longer a
good fit for who you are at twenty eight. You know,
it compose a challenge. You know, what happens when you
all are thirty two, What happens when you're forty? What
happens if someone has kids and you have to bring
this person around who's saying ruda inappropriate? You know, like,
(21:15):
I think it could get, you know, worse in some
ways if it's not a situation that's really addressed head
on the passive, you know, sort of, Oh, this is humor.
I have a really good sense of humor. I mean
from I watch all sorts of comedy, from the Office
(21:39):
to Curb Your Enthusiasm to Kat Williams to Kevin Hart. Like,
I love humor, and I think sometimes when we are
in one on one conversations, we take mean comments as
humor because we don't want to believe that this person
(21:59):
is actually mean. I don't think that Kevin Hart is
being mean to his friends and family, Like I think
he's telling jokes, and he's probably telling them on stage,
but he's not actually making comments about somebody's you know,
(22:20):
I hope not, you know, because that's not a good joke.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
It's just me.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
It's not a good joke. And the humor in it
is discomfort. It's like, because we do laugh when it's uncomfortable,
it's like, what else do you do? Sometimes we just
stand there, we stare at people. But there are other
times where we laugh to sort of deflect. But that
laughing is really like encouragement. Let's stop looking at mean
(22:47):
comments as humor statements. There is a big difference. And
I'm trying to be harmful and I'm trying to be funny.
There are some things that people are saying that make
us uncomfortable. We're unwilling to confront them, and so we
(23:11):
try to laugh it off.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
There is.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Space for us to have some uncomfortable conversations with people
that might make us more uncomfortable. Right, we will be
the person who's like, now we want to laugh because
we're so uncomfortable. But it is necessary. We cannot avoid
(23:38):
these hard topics with people because what happens is it's
been nine years. It's turned into nine years of this
person being a group offender. It has gone from oh
my gosh, he's saying these things and we're teenagers and
it's a little bit funny to wow, he is really
(23:59):
offending people. You ended your letter with, I'm not sure
how to preserve our friend group dynamic while at the
same time not pushing away other people or having this
gross mindset be what all the group is about.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Sure you'll be able to do both in this situation,
preserve the group and have this person in it. It
sounds like you've been doing that for nine years and
it hasn't worked. And when something doesn't work, we are
called to do a new thing, even when we don't
want to do that new thing. It would be unwise
(24:43):
of us to continue to do something in the same
way expecting a different result.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
And sometimes we.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Do that because doing anything just a little bit different
is a huge discomfort. It is, you know, it's a
huge discomfort to say every year we have this, you know,
big Saint Patrick's blowout, and this year.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
We're not inviting him.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Just this year, we're not sending him our location, we
won't mention it, we will ghost the group chat.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You know, like it will be.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Uncomfortable, I'm sure, not just for you, but for everyone. Else,
there will be questions around where's we're so and so,
where so and so like it will happen, but over
time it will be a much easier process. We have
experienced so many uncomfortable things.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I have a very vivid memory of my first day
of ninth grade. I obsessed over what to wearsessed over
what to wear. I remember uncomfortable. This was a new
school in a new neighborhood. It was ugh. I survived it.
(26:06):
I am here to say that I did ninth grade,
tenth grade, twelfth grade, and I went to college. You know,
many new experiences. So you know I have a wealth
of discomfort under my belt, and so do you. This
is just another thing. You are well trained in discomfort,
and it's something that you can manage. Even though it
(26:30):
feels very overwhelming to do a new thing in this situation,
it's something you can manage. I have full confidence that
you know there's a way for you to preserve this
relationship and continue on in a healthy group dynamic.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
You need to hear this.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Perhaps the solution is not to cut someone off, but
maybe there's a way to cut act on the relationship.
We have to figure out a healthy rhythm of what
works when we want to be in relationships with people
(27:13):
that are no longer meeting our needs or with people
who we have some challenges with but we deeply love.
It doesn't mean that we can't have the relationship, but
it is a question of how can I be in
this relationship? You need to hear This is an iHeart
(27:37):
production hosted by me Nedra Glover to wob Our executive
producer is Joe L. Barnique. Our senior producer and editor
is Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with
your questions about boundaries and relationships at you need to
Hear This at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to
(27:58):
rate our show wherever you listen to it, and share
this episode with someone who needs to hear this. Talk
to you next time.
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