December 14, 2023 • 25 mins
This episode's caller has a complicated relationship with his absent father who acts more like a friend than a parental figure. He contemplates whether to invest more in the relationship or break free from the shackles of untrustworthiness and lack of responsibility.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm Nedric lover Towab and you
need to hear this. This week, we're talking about trust issues,
and not just trust issues out of nowhere, but trust
issues that are caused by an unhealthy relationship with our parents.
There are times when we don't feel safe, we don't
(00:23):
feel protected, we don't feel seen, we don't feel loved,
and it causes us to feel that way in other relationships.
Parents are our primary caregivers, and when we don't have
that love and care in those relationships, it can be
questionable if other people can love and care for us.
(00:43):
So let's get started with today's message. It's a doozy.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello somebody, name's Stirlin. I'm thirty male, African American male.
My father wasn't around much for me growing up. I
will say we were a strange innocense, but we speak
maybe once or twice a year if that. This has
been interesting, Like he's never kind of been around. My
parents were in the military, so I feel like that
(01:11):
was one of his excuses kind of comment up. It was, oh,
you know, you move around a lot like he was
in the armor. I was in the Air Force, so
it wasn't as if they didn't both moved. He just
said that was the reason why he couldn't keep in
touch with me because we moved around, versus if he
just see what he was supposed to do. Not that
what he was supposed to do, but if that was important,
(01:31):
you could say that was important.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Really, you would have just kept up with me.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I don't didn't have to tell you where I'm going
if you kept your promises.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So for me, we're at the point now like we'll
call and.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Speak curiodestly, but it's more of if I initiated he
wants to come in now, more as like I'm your friend,
let's be your friend.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
We can hang out, we can drink at the party.
That's our relationship.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So it's never been the father son relationship, which kind
of sad because I kind of like, you know, I
went I had a father, Like I did a lot
of things that you know, sports and stuff my father
and have conversations about things with my father. But I
can't do that. So so for me, like my question
is like, is it I wanna say worth having a
(02:13):
relationship with.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I wouldn't say we were estranged. As soon as I
heard that, I thought, you know, what's another way to
say that we're not a strange, but we're strange. You know,
That's what it made me think of, Like, there is
some ot miss about the relationship, right, it's not the
typical father son relationship. There is something keeping us together,
(02:42):
but we're all so very different. So yes, it's not
a strange, but it's not typical. Now your father using
the excuse of you moved around a lot, if you're
writing this letter in twenty twenty three, I'm just thinking
(03:03):
early two thousand cell phones became a thing, right, so
you know, in our pockets, not even two thousands.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Gosh, nineties.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
You know, in our pockets we could connect with people
right now. It may not have always been very cheap,
but it was possible. There has always been letter writing,
There is email. There are all sorts of ways that
we can keep track of people. Golly g Willigers. I mean,
we could google folks and just find out all this stuff.
(03:31):
So there is a way to keep up with people.
So what I'm hearing here is a lack of ownership,
a lack of accountability. And what does a person say,
you know, I think what could be said is probably
what is most hurtful, right that Honestly, I did not
(03:51):
prioritize this relationship.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
There was no excuse.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
There was not a phone barrier, there was a letter barrier,
there wasn't.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
An email barrier.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I was not prioritizing this relationship, and for that I apologize.
I think that's that's the thing that's you know, certainly
missing here. But this putting it on you of oh,
you know, you moved around a lot what like, Yeah,
but adults can keep track of kids. Can kids keep
(04:26):
track of adults? Probably not, But there is some responsibility
in the rental relationship for him to keep up with
you. You know, as I listen to this a little bit further,
I'm hearing you also like owning like this moving around
was a barrier, Like he wasn't supposed to do anything,
(04:48):
but oh yes he was. I used to work in
juvenile probation when I was in Detroit, and guess what, like,
parents have a responsibility. Parents have to be a con
unable for their children. If you're not accountable for your child,
that's abuse, that's neglect, that's abandonment. Like there are words
and phrases and laws and all sorts of things for this.
(05:10):
So yeah, you were supposed to be around. And that's
why we have these feelings towards our parents when they
are not, because not only is it internal that we
feel that sense of where were you? You were supposed
to be here, it's also legal, you know, it's also spiritual.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
It's also a.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Universal principle of parents are supposed to parent, And so
that is the energy in which you're responding. Now, should
you have a relationship with your father, You know, him
wanting to be your friend reminds me of dating and
people are like, are you accepting friends? And it's like,
(05:58):
now I don't want any more friends. I want to
see this relationship. And it sounds like with your dad,
you want a serious relationship. I want deep, meaningful connection.
If you're okay with the friendship, I think you can
be in this relationship with him. What might need to
happen here is you will have to significantly lower your
expectations of him being a father, because it seems like
(06:20):
that's not the relationship that he wants. He wants to
be a friend. He wants to drink and party and
hang out with you, and that is what he can offer.
He cannot offer sports, And you know, deep conversation and
going on walks and fishing trips. That's not what you're
gonna get from your dad. It sounds like he is
(06:42):
giving what he can so you can be in this
relationship if you're willing to accept what he's offering. Let's
keep listening.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Like I mean, I would love to have it.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And people always ask me like, oh my god, would
you give a seventy passed away? And I'm like, I
don't really think I would be because he hasn't been there.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I've only seen him maybe.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Five times in my life, and the past three is
me making an effort to see him. It's never him saying, hey,
I'm coming to see you. I want to spend time
with you. That's never the case at all. I do
know that my relationship with him, I guess when I
was younger, I definitely definitely geared how I trusted people
and a lot of things. Since he always promised me, Oh,
(07:26):
i'm gonna call, You're gonna do this, We're gonna do this,
We're gonna do so he never did it. So for
me when people promise me things, i'm my inspectation. When
I was younger, Yeah, you're not going to do it,
and to today it's like that to a degree, it's
more of your actions will show me everything. I will
just see what you may self what you do to
promise me is nothing, But can you just actually show
me and then I'll know. And so for him, the
expectation the same way I let the expectation go with
(07:49):
him being a father, he's just he's my biological father.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
But he's not a dad. He has anything for me
in an aspect.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So I guess my question is, like it should I
try to have a relationship with him, like it'd be nice.
At the same time, I don't want a friend on
a father. But he's very like you know, like you
know I was there, but you know this is where
we're at right now. And like with him, I have
six other brothers and another sister. I've met some of them,
(08:21):
I've talked to some of them. They're my siblings towards
by blood. But there was never a moment where he
everyone was like, okay, on together all my children there,
let's have conversations, look good together, AT's have a family reunion.
I don't know, like I feel like I've seen my
cousin from my father's side and his mother more than
I seen and interacted with them on vacations just with us,
three than my father has ever come into the picture.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
When your father dies, you may not grieve your father,
but you will grieve having a father. So those things
that you might be missing, those things that you missed
when your father passes, there is some like wow, like
I'll never get it because this person is now gone,
(09:07):
right like, you know, as long as he's alive, there
is this hope that it is possible.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
And I hear it as you're writing, So.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
This idea that, huh, I probably will be okay because
I've only seen him, you know, five times. It's like,
you may grief something. It may not be, oh, my
dad has passed. I won't see him on Tuesday, But
it might be I don't have a dad. Some of
that work is happening right now. I'm hearing that you're
already grieving the relationship that you don't have your with
(09:39):
your father, And I wonder what it might feel like
for you to lean into that a bit more, to
deal with the grief around being disappointed, to deal with
the grief around him not wanting more, to deal with
that grief around this connection could be really healing and
(10:01):
restorative is for you to have some sort of mentorship,
some sort of relationship with an elder male in your family,
so an uncle, a grandfather's stepdad, cousin, and be in
community with those folks to get that love and that
connection in other relationships, not particularly with your father, because
(10:25):
it doesn't seem like not only is he not willing,
but it sounds like maybe he's not capable, because if
he's not doing it in any of the sibling relationships,
there may be an inability there. Right, Like we assume
because our parents are our parents, that they have this
ability to parent.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
But I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I have not seen that be the case, where there
is this beam that comes through us and we're like,
oh my gosh, maturity KICKI in, Oh my gosh, the
equipment to parent and change diapers KICKI, and like it
doesn't happen that way. Like those are practice things. You
have to build that connection. You have to be available,
(11:08):
you have to be open to it. And it sounds
like your dad is not in that space, not just
with you, but with his other children, Like he's consistently
emotionally and physically unavailable, for the father role. That is
a lot to sit with. And I know it's hard
to accept that this person, this living person who created me,
(11:33):
is not interested in parenting me. They have very little interests.
And if I were to remove myself from the task
of keeping this relationship going, what would it look like?
What could this relationship look like if you just remove
(11:53):
yourself from doing all of the work in the relationship,
would he start to do some work with the relationship
in I wonder, you know, the part about him making
these promises and leaving you hanging reminds me of this
movie on Netflix. It's called Roxanne. It is about the
(12:16):
rapper Roxanne Chante, And there's a scene in the movie
where Roxanne and her siblings they are sitting on the
bench outside of their apartment waiting on their father to
show up. And the mom she's like, I know, he
not gonna show up, And you know, she's looking out
the window at her babies and is breaking her heart.
(12:39):
And you know, those kids are sitting on that bench
all day and the dad doesn't show up.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I mean, I'm.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Watching this and I'm like, ah, where's this dad. You know, like,
if I ever wanted to get on Google and find
a person you know.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Like where is he?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Because it is heartbreaking. It is so sad to see
and it's even worse the experience it. So I get that,
you know, I get that those broken promises led you
to a space of not being able to trust people.
But I promise you there are trustworthy people in the world,
and your work is to not trust the people you
(13:17):
can't trust, and to trust the people that you can
to give them the energy of your father, and they
have then demonstrated that they don't deserve that energy. It's
not fair to you and it's not fair to your
future relationships. He has a hold on you. So there
is some work that you can do to maybe be
(13:42):
released from some of these things that he's created, and
a lot of that work it's going to be grief work.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
We can grieve living people, you know, when we can't
be in relationship with them and the way that is
healthiest for us, in a way that feel safe. We
may have to grieve our expectations of that person. We
may have to grieve what we think a father should be.
(14:11):
We have to grieve, you know, all these stories of
he told me to call, he didn't call and now
I have this thing. We have to grieve the loss
of trust. Let's take a break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So Mona's just interesting. And then everybody's like, do you
talk to your father? And I'm like no, like let
you feel bad. I mean it, so you know, I
don't feel bad. But this is interesting that a lot
of people are like you just has that relationship because
of this. So my thing is that there's periodically mamas,
I'm like, I wonder if I was doing it. But
then I'm like, okay, I get busy and I'm like whatever,
But like he's not making the effort to why am
I breaking my back? Like he has not broken Like
(14:52):
he didn't raise me, he didn't do anything, So for me,
why do I need to break my back to make
sure he's okay? Like, if you call me, tell me
he said, which has happened. I did take a flight,
go see him. He was doing good.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I can't flower her back. I'll do that because he
is my father.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But outside of that, I don't know what else you
want me to do. Like, you know, birthdays, I don't
get happy birthdays. I don't get merry Christmases. I don't
get Happy New Years.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
His wife will text me say, hey, don't forget to
tell your father I happy birthday, which I find to
be interesting that you know his birthday is important. You
need to speak to your father on his birthday, but
mine is non existent. Like I think the last birthday
gift I got the men was in the sis grade
and that was only since he was visiting at the time.
But outside of that, I've never got a birthday gifts,
(15:41):
never gotten the graduatory gifts, never got anything for any
of my accomplishments. So like questions like should I really try
to bond it or let it go, or like I
hate to be like hey I talked to your sister
more like I don't.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
It's just interesting. I mean, I would love to have
a Cogan relationship with him. I would love to have
a fole, but I just don't have one.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So you can have a father, it may not be
a biological father. And that's why I said that mentorship,
that community, that connection, even if it's not an older male,
having a deep connection with a women in your family,
with other people that love you. Sometimes it takes us
(16:23):
seeing that, yes, you know, it would be great to
have a relationship with my father. But I do have
a relationship with my grandmother. I have a great relationship
with my mom. I have a great relationship with my sister.
I have a great recognizing the relationships.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
That you do have.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I have great relationships with my friends. Whatever those relationships
are for you right figuring out that that is one
relationship that you cannot manage, but there are so many
others that you have the power to show up in,
to be present in, to be thoughtful about, well, that
could be really restorative for you. You don't have to
(17:03):
focus on the one that you can't control. I wonder
what this relationship would be if you chose to allow
it to unfold naturally. What happens, you know, when you
stop doing the work here? What happens when you're not
the person initiating the cause. Again, it could be that
(17:25):
that's the whole relationship. But I'm hearing a level of
frustration because you're doing most of the work. You're doing
the Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday, you are keeping the relationship
going by yourself. Is that even a relationship?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
What is that part of it?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Sounds like a one sided connection and you're trying to
encourage this person to connect, but your dad has to
want it. Have you ever asked him directly what does
he want from the relationship with you? Or is it
assume that he wants to party and drink and you
know all these other things. Have you ever asked him directly, like,
(18:05):
what would you like our relationship to look like? How
do you see our relationship going in the future? Just
wonder you know, I'm just curious, like I don't know,
and I love some clarity on what this is for
you. You might get a surprising answer. It might not be
all I just want to be your pal or buddy.
(18:27):
It may be that your dad doesn't know how to start.
He missed a lot of time. And what I find
in these situations when a person misses a lot of time,
there's a huge level of you know, shame and embarrassment. Right,
It's like, this is my child, but I don't know them,
don't I don't know what they like, I don't know
(18:48):
what they dislike. I don't know anything. And it can
be much harder for your dad to figure that stuff
out than to just ignore it and pretend like it
doesn't exist, because does it require some work from his
side to be willing to be in the relationship and
show up as you know, maybe not a father, but
(19:10):
at least a relative, right like, maybe show up as
something in the relationship. It would require some work, and
we're not sure if your dad is wanting to do
that work. So have that conversation of you know, what
do you want? Are your expectations too high for him?
(19:30):
Have you set any expectations, have you talked about what
this could look like? Or has all of it been assumed?
As I hear your letter and I hear that, you know,
other people will say, oh, my gosh, you should talk
to your dad. Oh when the last time you talked
to your dad? Are that's your dad? You should you know,
he's the only one you have. And all of these
(19:52):
sort of things that people say, they are speaking from
their reference point, right, So they had a good, reasonable,
or whatever type of thing they had, and so they think, oh,
this is how all fathers are, or it can't be
that bad. It's not their situation. They don't have to
understand it. So this is where community comes in. You
have to find other people in similar situations to you.
(20:15):
So as you're sharing this thing with people, it doesn't
seem so strange because they've experienced it too. Community. There
has to be some community when you're dealing with these issues,
because if not, it feels like, oh my gosh, I
am the only person who has this sort of issue,
when that is not true. You know, I'm thinking of
the community you can have with your siblings. That your
(20:38):
dad is operating in this same way with many people,
so I'm sure some of them have some of the
you know, same issues that you're having these feelings of,
like I want to but I don't. He doesn't call
me on my birthday, and the relationship doesn't have to
totally be about you know, like this this support group
of you know, our dad sucks, but you know, maybe
(21:01):
there is space to just have a conversation and leave
it there with your siblings, maybe just being able to
have a one time conversation of ugh, let me get
all of this out. You can feel that connection from
another person, but the connection piece is what I hear missing. Lastly,
(21:22):
I would strongly encourage outside of the community and connection piece,
I would strongly encourage you to one read drama Free
because I do talk about you know, what it looks
like for us to be a strange from a parent,
from a person in our family, how to deal with
what people say to you when you're a strange or
(21:44):
you don't have a relationship with someone. So drama Free
is a wonderful place to start. I will add that
Drama Free has a workbook coming out in February, so
there's another opportunity to do some of that work around
the family dynamic. But drama Free is a good place
to start. Then developing a relationship with a therapist where
(22:07):
you can talk about this and you can start to
understand that, no, your expectations.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Are reasonable for a parent.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
You know, sometimes we're not hearing that and we're like,
you know, everybody else is saying us like, oh, well
you did move a lot. It's like it doesn't matter.
I don't care if you move to Kuwait. Your father
could have contacted you. We may need a license professional
to say that, because the people in our lives they're
experiencing you, they're experiencing their father, their father, so they
(22:37):
may not have the wherewithal or the proper information to
really lean into some of these challenges you're having. And
so having a therapist who could say like, no, that's interesting,
that's different. No, this is you know, that can be
very helpful and healing because you are not asking for
(22:58):
too much. You're asking to be parented, you're asking to
be loved, you're asking to be noticed. Those are all
very fair things to try to.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Receive from a parent.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And so there's nothing wrong with how you feel about this,
and I understand the desire for you to have it.
My greatest concern is can you get it from this person?
You need to hear this. Our parents are people. They
are people with children. They are people with their own backgrounds.
(23:37):
They are people with unhealed stuff. They are people with
inefficient skills, no tools.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
They are people.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
When someone steps into parenthood, there are no classes, there
is no guide posts in some cases and very often,
and you know, when there's these relationship issues, there is
no connection. There is nothing holding them close to this person.
(24:10):
And that's why we're having this because you know, if
if you have only seen your child a handful of times,
there is you know, the attachment is not there. So
our parents, you know, although we may have these expectations
that they will do this this, and that they are
(24:31):
people and with people, we cannot control how they show
up in our lives. But we can control how we're
willing to show up with them. You need to hear
this is an iHeart production hosted by me Nadra Glover
(24:52):
to wob Our executive producer is Joe L.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Baldique.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Our senior producer and editor is Mia Dante. Send us
a voice memo with your questions about boundaries and relationships
at You need to Hear this at iHeartMedia dot com.
Please be sure to rate our show wherever you listen
to it and share this episode with someone who needs
to hear this. Talk to you next time
Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm Nedric lover Towab and you
need to hear this. This week, we're talking about trust issues,
and not just trust issues out of nowhere, but trust
issues that are caused by an unhealthy relationship with our parents.
There are times when we don't feel safe, we don't
(00:23):
feel protected, we don't feel seen, we don't feel loved,
and it causes us to feel that way in other relationships.
Parents are our primary caregivers, and when we don't have
that love and care in those relationships, it can be
questionable if other people can love and care for us.
(00:43):
So let's get started with today's message. It's a doozy.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello somebody, name's Stirlin. I'm thirty male, African American male.
My father wasn't around much for me growing up. I
will say we were a strange innocense, but we speak
maybe once or twice a year if that. This has
been interesting, Like he's never kind of been around. My
parents were in the military, so I feel like that
(01:11):
was one of his excuses kind of comment up. It was, oh,
you know, you move around a lot like he was
in the armor. I was in the Air Force, so
it wasn't as if they didn't both moved. He just
said that was the reason why he couldn't keep in
touch with me because we moved around, versus if he
just see what he was supposed to do. Not that
what he was supposed to do, but if that was important,
(01:31):
you could say that was important.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Really, you would have just kept up with me.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I don't didn't have to tell you where I'm going
if you kept your promises.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So for me, we're at the point now like we'll
call and.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Speak curiodestly, but it's more of if I initiated he
wants to come in now, more as like I'm your friend,
let's be your friend.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
We can hang out, we can drink at the party.
That's our relationship.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
So it's never been the father son relationship, which kind
of sad because I kind of like, you know, I
went I had a father, Like I did a lot
of things that you know, sports and stuff my father
and have conversations about things with my father. But I
can't do that. So so for me, like my question
is like, is it I wanna say worth having a
(02:13):
relationship with.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I wouldn't say we were estranged. As soon as I
heard that, I thought, you know, what's another way to
say that we're not a strange, but we're strange. You know,
That's what it made me think of, Like, there is
some ot miss about the relationship, right, it's not the
typical father son relationship. There is something keeping us together,
(02:42):
but we're all so very different. So yes, it's not
a strange, but it's not typical. Now your father using
the excuse of you moved around a lot, if you're
writing this letter in twenty twenty three, I'm just thinking
(03:03):
early two thousand cell phones became a thing, right, so
you know, in our pockets, not even two thousands.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Gosh, nineties.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
You know, in our pockets we could connect with people
right now. It may not have always been very cheap,
but it was possible. There has always been letter writing,
There is email. There are all sorts of ways that
we can keep track of people. Golly g Willigers. I mean,
we could google folks and just find out all this stuff.
(03:31):
So there is a way to keep up with people.
So what I'm hearing here is a lack of ownership,
a lack of accountability. And what does a person say,
you know, I think what could be said is probably
what is most hurtful, right that Honestly, I did not
(03:51):
prioritize this relationship.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
There was no excuse.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
There was not a phone barrier, there was a letter barrier,
there wasn't.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
An email barrier.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I was not prioritizing this relationship, and for that I apologize.
I think that's that's the thing that's you know, certainly
missing here. But this putting it on you of oh,
you know, you moved around a lot what like, Yeah,
but adults can keep track of kids. Can kids keep
(04:26):
track of adults? Probably not, But there is some responsibility
in the rental relationship for him to keep up with
you. You know, as I listen to this a little bit further,
I'm hearing you also like owning like this moving around
was a barrier, Like he wasn't supposed to do anything,
(04:48):
but oh yes he was. I used to work in
juvenile probation when I was in Detroit, and guess what, like,
parents have a responsibility. Parents have to be a con
unable for their children. If you're not accountable for your child,
that's abuse, that's neglect, that's abandonment. Like there are words
and phrases and laws and all sorts of things for this.
(05:10):
So yeah, you were supposed to be around. And that's
why we have these feelings towards our parents when they
are not, because not only is it internal that we
feel that sense of where were you? You were supposed
to be here, it's also legal, you know, it's also spiritual.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
It's also a.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Universal principle of parents are supposed to parent, And so
that is the energy in which you're responding. Now, should
you have a relationship with your father, You know, him
wanting to be your friend reminds me of dating and
people are like, are you accepting friends? And it's like,
(05:58):
now I don't want any more friends. I want to
see this relationship. And it sounds like with your dad,
you want a serious relationship. I want deep, meaningful connection.
If you're okay with the friendship, I think you can
be in this relationship with him. What might need to
happen here is you will have to significantly lower your
expectations of him being a father, because it seems like
(06:20):
that's not the relationship that he wants. He wants to
be a friend. He wants to drink and party and
hang out with you, and that is what he can offer.
He cannot offer sports, And you know, deep conversation and
going on walks and fishing trips. That's not what you're
gonna get from your dad. It sounds like he is
(06:42):
giving what he can so you can be in this
relationship if you're willing to accept what he's offering. Let's
keep listening.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Like I mean, I would love to have it.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And people always ask me like, oh my god, would
you give a seventy passed away? And I'm like, I
don't really think I would be because he hasn't been there.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I've only seen him maybe.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Five times in my life, and the past three is
me making an effort to see him. It's never him saying, hey,
I'm coming to see you. I want to spend time
with you. That's never the case at all. I do
know that my relationship with him, I guess when I
was younger, I definitely definitely geared how I trusted people
and a lot of things. Since he always promised me, Oh,
(07:26):
i'm gonna call, You're gonna do this, We're gonna do this,
We're gonna do so he never did it. So for
me when people promise me things, i'm my inspectation. When
I was younger, Yeah, you're not going to do it,
and to today it's like that to a degree, it's
more of your actions will show me everything. I will
just see what you may self what you do to
promise me is nothing, But can you just actually show
me and then I'll know. And so for him, the
expectation the same way I let the expectation go with
(07:49):
him being a father, he's just he's my biological father.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
But he's not a dad. He has anything for me
in an aspect.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
So I guess my question is, like it should I
try to have a relationship with him, like it'd be nice.
At the same time, I don't want a friend on
a father. But he's very like you know, like you
know I was there, but you know this is where
we're at right now. And like with him, I have
six other brothers and another sister. I've met some of them,
(08:21):
I've talked to some of them. They're my siblings towards
by blood. But there was never a moment where he
everyone was like, okay, on together all my children there,
let's have conversations, look good together, AT's have a family reunion.
I don't know, like I feel like I've seen my
cousin from my father's side and his mother more than
I seen and interacted with them on vacations just with us,
three than my father has ever come into the picture.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
When your father dies, you may not grieve your father,
but you will grieve having a father. So those things
that you might be missing, those things that you missed
when your father passes, there is some like wow, like
I'll never get it because this person is now gone,
(09:07):
right like, you know, as long as he's alive, there
is this hope that it is possible.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
And I hear it as you're writing, So.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
This idea that, huh, I probably will be okay because
I've only seen him, you know, five times. It's like,
you may grief something. It may not be, oh, my
dad has passed. I won't see him on Tuesday, But
it might be I don't have a dad. Some of
that work is happening right now. I'm hearing that you're
already grieving the relationship that you don't have your with
(09:39):
your father, And I wonder what it might feel like
for you to lean into that a bit more, to
deal with the grief around being disappointed, to deal with
the grief around him not wanting more, to deal with
that grief around this connection could be really healing and
(10:01):
restorative is for you to have some sort of mentorship,
some sort of relationship with an elder male in your family,
so an uncle, a grandfather's stepdad, cousin, and be in
community with those folks to get that love and that
connection in other relationships, not particularly with your father, because
(10:25):
it doesn't seem like not only is he not willing,
but it sounds like maybe he's not capable, because if
he's not doing it in any of the sibling relationships,
there may be an inability there. Right, Like we assume
because our parents are our parents, that they have this
ability to parent.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
But I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I have not seen that be the case, where there
is this beam that comes through us and we're like,
oh my gosh, maturity KICKI in, Oh my gosh, the
equipment to parent and change diapers KICKI, and like it
doesn't happen that way. Like those are practice things. You
have to build that connection. You have to be available,
(11:08):
you have to be open to it. And it sounds
like your dad is not in that space, not just
with you, but with his other children, Like he's consistently
emotionally and physically unavailable, for the father role. That is
a lot to sit with. And I know it's hard
to accept that this person, this living person who created me,
(11:33):
is not interested in parenting me. They have very little interests.
And if I were to remove myself from the task
of keeping this relationship going, what would it look like?
What could this relationship look like if you just remove
(11:53):
yourself from doing all of the work in the relationship,
would he start to do some work with the relationship
in I wonder, you know, the part about him making
these promises and leaving you hanging reminds me of this
movie on Netflix. It's called Roxanne. It is about the
(12:16):
rapper Roxanne Chante, And there's a scene in the movie
where Roxanne and her siblings they are sitting on the
bench outside of their apartment waiting on their father to
show up. And the mom she's like, I know, he
not gonna show up, And you know, she's looking out
the window at her babies and is breaking her heart.
(12:39):
And you know, those kids are sitting on that bench
all day and the dad doesn't show up.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
I mean, I'm.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Watching this and I'm like, ah, where's this dad. You know, like,
if I ever wanted to get on Google and find
a person you know.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Like where is he?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Because it is heartbreaking. It is so sad to see
and it's even worse the experience it. So I get that,
you know, I get that those broken promises led you
to a space of not being able to trust people.
But I promise you there are trustworthy people in the world,
and your work is to not trust the people you
(13:17):
can't trust, and to trust the people that you can
to give them the energy of your father, and they
have then demonstrated that they don't deserve that energy. It's
not fair to you and it's not fair to your
future relationships. He has a hold on you. So there
is some work that you can do to maybe be
(13:42):
released from some of these things that he's created, and
a lot of that work it's going to be grief work.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
We can grieve living people, you know, when we can't
be in relationship with them and the way that is
healthiest for us, in a way that feel safe. We
may have to grieve our expectations of that person. We
may have to grieve what we think a father should be.
(14:11):
We have to grieve, you know, all these stories of
he told me to call, he didn't call and now
I have this thing. We have to grieve the loss
of trust. Let's take a break and we'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So Mona's just interesting. And then everybody's like, do you
talk to your father? And I'm like no, like let
you feel bad. I mean it, so you know, I
don't feel bad. But this is interesting that a lot
of people are like you just has that relationship because
of this. So my thing is that there's periodically mamas,
I'm like, I wonder if I was doing it. But
then I'm like, okay, I get busy and I'm like whatever,
But like he's not making the effort to why am
I breaking my back? Like he has not broken Like
(14:52):
he didn't raise me, he didn't do anything, So for me,
why do I need to break my back to make
sure he's okay? Like, if you call me, tell me
he said, which has happened. I did take a flight,
go see him. He was doing good.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
I can't flower her back. I'll do that because he
is my father.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
But outside of that, I don't know what else you
want me to do. Like, you know, birthdays, I don't
get happy birthdays. I don't get merry Christmases. I don't
get Happy New Years.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Nothing.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
His wife will text me say, hey, don't forget to
tell your father I happy birthday, which I find to
be interesting that you know his birthday is important. You
need to speak to your father on his birthday, but
mine is non existent. Like I think the last birthday
gift I got the men was in the sis grade
and that was only since he was visiting at the time.
But outside of that, I've never got a birthday gifts,
(15:41):
never gotten the graduatory gifts, never got anything for any
of my accomplishments. So like questions like should I really try
to bond it or let it go, or like I
hate to be like hey I talked to your sister
more like I don't.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
It's just interesting. I mean, I would love to have
a Cogan relationship with him. I would love to have
a fole, but I just don't have one.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
So you can have a father, it may not be
a biological father. And that's why I said that mentorship,
that community, that connection, even if it's not an older male,
having a deep connection with a women in your family,
with other people that love you. Sometimes it takes us
(16:23):
seeing that, yes, you know, it would be great to
have a relationship with my father. But I do have
a relationship with my grandmother. I have a great relationship
with my mom. I have a great relationship with my sister.
I have a great recognizing the relationships.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
That you do have.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
I have great relationships with my friends. Whatever those relationships
are for you right figuring out that that is one
relationship that you cannot manage, but there are so many
others that you have the power to show up in,
to be present in, to be thoughtful about, well, that
could be really restorative for you. You don't have to
(17:03):
focus on the one that you can't control. I wonder
what this relationship would be if you chose to allow
it to unfold naturally. What happens, you know, when you
stop doing the work here? What happens when you're not
the person initiating the cause. Again, it could be that
(17:25):
that's the whole relationship. But I'm hearing a level of
frustration because you're doing most of the work. You're doing
the Merry Christmas, Happy Birthday, you are keeping the relationship
going by yourself. Is that even a relationship?
Speaker 4 (17:41):
What is that part of it?
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Sounds like a one sided connection and you're trying to
encourage this person to connect, but your dad has to
want it. Have you ever asked him directly what does
he want from the relationship with you? Or is it
assume that he wants to party and drink and you
know all these other things. Have you ever asked him directly, like,
(18:05):
what would you like our relationship to look like? How
do you see our relationship going in the future? Just
wonder you know, I'm just curious, like I don't know,
and I love some clarity on what this is for
you. You might get a surprising answer. It might not be
all I just want to be your pal or buddy.
(18:27):
It may be that your dad doesn't know how to start.
He missed a lot of time. And what I find
in these situations when a person misses a lot of time,
there's a huge level of you know, shame and embarrassment. Right,
It's like, this is my child, but I don't know them,
don't I don't know what they like, I don't know
(18:48):
what they dislike. I don't know anything. And it can
be much harder for your dad to figure that stuff
out than to just ignore it and pretend like it
doesn't exist, because does it require some work from his
side to be willing to be in the relationship and
show up as you know, maybe not a father, but
(19:10):
at least a relative, right like, maybe show up as
something in the relationship. It would require some work, and
we're not sure if your dad is wanting to do
that work. So have that conversation of you know, what
do you want? Are your expectations too high for him?
(19:30):
Have you set any expectations, have you talked about what
this could look like? Or has all of it been assumed?
As I hear your letter and I hear that, you know,
other people will say, oh, my gosh, you should talk
to your dad. Oh when the last time you talked
to your dad? Are that's your dad? You should you know,
he's the only one you have. And all of these
(19:52):
sort of things that people say, they are speaking from
their reference point, right, So they had a good, reasonable,
or whatever type of thing they had, and so they think, oh,
this is how all fathers are, or it can't be
that bad. It's not their situation. They don't have to
understand it. So this is where community comes in. You
have to find other people in similar situations to you.
(20:15):
So as you're sharing this thing with people, it doesn't
seem so strange because they've experienced it too. Community. There
has to be some community when you're dealing with these issues,
because if not, it feels like, oh my gosh, I
am the only person who has this sort of issue,
when that is not true. You know, I'm thinking of
the community you can have with your siblings. That your
(20:38):
dad is operating in this same way with many people,
so I'm sure some of them have some of the
you know, same issues that you're having these feelings of,
like I want to but I don't. He doesn't call
me on my birthday, and the relationship doesn't have to
totally be about you know, like this this support group
of you know, our dad sucks, but you know, maybe
(21:01):
there is space to just have a conversation and leave
it there with your siblings, maybe just being able to
have a one time conversation of ugh, let me get
all of this out. You can feel that connection from
another person, but the connection piece is what I hear missing. Lastly,
(21:22):
I would strongly encourage outside of the community and connection piece,
I would strongly encourage you to one read drama Free
because I do talk about you know, what it looks
like for us to be a strange from a parent,
from a person in our family, how to deal with
what people say to you when you're a strange or
(21:44):
you don't have a relationship with someone. So drama Free
is a wonderful place to start. I will add that
Drama Free has a workbook coming out in February, so
there's another opportunity to do some of that work around
the family dynamic. But drama Free is a good place
to start. Then developing a relationship with a therapist where
(22:07):
you can talk about this and you can start to
understand that, no, your expectations.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Are reasonable for a parent.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
You know, sometimes we're not hearing that and we're like,
you know, everybody else is saying us like, oh, well
you did move a lot. It's like it doesn't matter.
I don't care if you move to Kuwait. Your father
could have contacted you. We may need a license professional
to say that, because the people in our lives they're
experiencing you, they're experiencing their father, their father, so they
(22:37):
may not have the wherewithal or the proper information to
really lean into some of these challenges you're having. And
so having a therapist who could say like, no, that's interesting,
that's different. No, this is you know, that can be
very helpful and healing because you are not asking for
(22:58):
too much. You're asking to be parented, you're asking to
be loved, you're asking to be noticed. Those are all
very fair things to try to.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Receive from a parent.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
And so there's nothing wrong with how you feel about this,
and I understand the desire for you to have it.
My greatest concern is can you get it from this person?
You need to hear this. Our parents are people. They
are people with children. They are people with their own backgrounds.
(23:37):
They are people with unhealed stuff. They are people with
inefficient skills, no tools.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
They are people.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
When someone steps into parenthood, there are no classes, there
is no guide posts in some cases and very often,
and you know, when there's these relationship issues, there is
no connection. There is nothing holding them close to this person.
(24:10):
And that's why we're having this because you know, if
if you have only seen your child a handful of times,
there is you know, the attachment is not there. So
our parents, you know, although we may have these expectations
that they will do this this, and that they are
(24:31):
people and with people, we cannot control how they show
up in our lives. But we can control how we're
willing to show up with them. You need to hear
this is an iHeart production hosted by me Nadra Glover
(24:52):
to wob Our executive producer is Joe L.
Speaker 4 (24:55):
Baldique.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Our senior producer and editor is Mia Dante. Send us
a voice memo with your questions about boundaries and relationships
at You need to Hear this at iHeartMedia dot com.
Please be sure to rate our show wherever you listen
to it and share this episode with someone who needs
to hear this. Talk to you next time
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