December 21, 2023 • 43 mins
This week, Nedra has a conversation with psychologist and mental health professional, Dr. Raquel Martin. The two share stories on raising a new generation of children based on boundaries, consent, and mutual respect with the lessons learned from generation before them.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Nedri Glover Towab and you need to hear this.
This week, I'm in conversation with doctor Raquel Martin will
be in conversation about intentional parenting. Whether you are a
parent or you are an adult child, if you are
thinking about becoming a parent, I think this is a
(00:21):
wonderful episode for you to tune into. Doctor Martin. I
am so excited to have you on this show. You
have a huge following on Instagram and I'm sure other platforms.
Your work centers on mental health and relationships, and I
am always amazed by your videos on parenting in particular.
(00:46):
The thing that sticks out for me is the way
you approach parenting in this intentional way. I think for
some of us we call it gentle parenting. For others
it might be new Age parenting. But I like to
think of it as parenting with intention and treating children
(01:07):
as people, which is I guess new age. Maybe it's
more new age, But tell me a little bit about
how you develop your personal and professional practice of parenting.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So I always state that I just parent like my
children are human beings, because some people will be like,
are you gentle parenting or are you conscious parenting, and
I'm like, I don't know either of those frameworks, and
as a scientist, I'm not going to subscribe to something
that I haven't done a full literature view on. I
just treat my children like human beings. I lead with
the aspect of respect instead of obedience. You know, obedience
(01:44):
builds resentment. Respect builds relationships, but it also takes more time.
And it's also from one I was parented an amazing way.
Also though training in trauma informed care, trauma focused cognitive
behavioral therapy, child trauma, dealing with assault and attachment disorders,
and learning parent child interaction therapy. Like there's so many
(02:05):
modalities that I had to learn through my training that
some things I was like, oh, I'm off for this,
some things I wasn't. But the underlying aspect was just
being moore intentional about all of the encounters that you
have slowing down. I always state that, like I try
to regulate myself so I can co regulate my children
and then try.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
To just chill, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Like people always ask like, oh, is it easier being
a family and child family psychologist, And I said no,
just because I know it's developmentally appropriate for him to
throw that item doesn't mean I don't want to rip
my face off every time he throws that item. My
husband asked me the other day, like, is it normal
for him to be this dramatic? I said, yeah, it's rough,
Ain't it Like?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It doesn't make it any when we have the freedom
to be that dramatic.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
He has the freedom to do.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, some of us never had that freedom, so we
think it's weird when children are not listening or throwing stuff.
It's like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with these kids.
It's like they're free. They feel comfortable being themselves.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
One of the teachers at my oldest, because I'm a
four year old and a twenty month old, she was like,
I dropped off books because there aren't many books that
look like my baby. I'm in his school. I'm in Nashville, Tennessee,
which is pretty typical, and I already know teachers already
have enough on their hands, so I just buy the
books and give them the books, Like, I'm not expecting
y'all to do anything else.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
You guys already have to decorate your whole stuff and
do everything.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And when I was dropping them off, she said, I
just told Russell like, I can't wait till our parent
teacher conference because she said he does not listen. I said,
he don't do it. Well, here are these books. I'm
gonna see you on Thursday. You know you're not telling
me anything.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
He's used to being at home with Popop and Gigi
or Mama and dad, Dad are t t and Lulu,
whose whole entire world is Russell.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
What would you like? Do you have any questions?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You always are going to get a turn because it's
just you versus going to school and him being like, hey,
my my hand is raised.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
What do you mean You're not gonna what do you
mean You're not gonna call the me? I am Russell.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You're not gonna call me? Like, there's gonna be a transition.
And I had the conversation with my husband and he's
just like, should we be concerned? And I said no,
there's going to be some transition between him getting all
the attention from people who are enamored by their grand
baby and their baby, then people who are amazing at
their job, but they also have like fifteen other kids
in the class. So I just get used to I
(04:17):
let my child query when it comes to disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I actually I enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
My child going toe to toe with me, and I
know that seems like a lot, but he is such
a critical thinker.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Is it exhausting? Yes, have I said to him recently?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
My new thing I say is like, be smart in school, Okay,
you know, just answer the question. But he goes toe
to topy with questions and he's not just respectful, he
just has queries. And I genuinely love it because if
you can't ask your most salient relationship questions, if you
don't feel comfortable, like with the person who's around you
your whole life, asking them questions or problem solving, then like,
(04:53):
what do I expect for him when he's in a
different scenario and there's an adult and something doesn't seem
right or it makes him feel uncomfortable in his body?
Like what can what can I expect? I really I
always state like your children should go a little toe
to toe with you, right, Like what do you know?
It's a dangerous place to have children who just blindly
follow people just because they're adults, despite like what it
(05:14):
makes them feel, how they feel in their body, whether
it feels yucky, like that's a dangerous place to be,
so I typically, you know, facilitate, like, yes, ask me questions,
but I always say, my most important job is to
keep you healthy and safe. So if I'm saying like,
if I'm not giving you a bunch of info, it's
because I'm trying to keep you safe. So it's like,
you know, if don't ask me why a million times
(05:36):
you have to move out of the way of the car,
Move out of the way of the car, honey, and
we'll talk. We'll talk about that in five minutes once
we are out of the way of the car. But
I always try to apologize to my child, make mistakes
in front of my child, normalize mistakes, and just have
normal conversations with them, which are getting more fun as
it gets older, because I don't know if it's all children.
(05:57):
But he's a little like witty, which I'm just like
kids like a dry, corny humor, which I love because
I'm a very corny person. So when he makes these
corny jokes, like I'm on the floor dying laughing, and
my husband is just like rolling his eyes like this
is I'll give it a chuckle, but I'll laugh about
it all day because it's just like funny.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I think for children to be able to be themselves,
it does require them to have a safe adult. And
there are some adults because of who they are and
because of their i would say, lack of mental health care,
it makes sense for them, you know, it may have
made sense for them to raise children who just followed right,
(06:41):
because a kid asking questions is like, what are you
saying about me? I can't tolerate the discomfort of having
to ask it, So it might be easier for me
to say, don't ask me any questions, right, just do
what I say it. And I think sometimes when you
grow up in that environment, it feels like, oh my gosh,
(07:02):
I can't talk to this person, But it's really a
lack of you know, this person being able to withstand
any accountability, because sometimes kids do have really good questions
that are like, yeah, that adult wasn't right and that
could be offensive to an adult with a really fragile ego.
And I think sometimes kids are just talking, you know,
(07:26):
because they're trying to figure out the world make sense
of it. And when you have an adult who hasn't
processed these things of you know, I'm just thinking, like,
why didn't your husband help you with dinner. It's like,
be quiet, kid, It's like, seems like a reasonable question.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah right, versus me will be like a slow pan,
like I don't know, why don't we ask him?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Sorry? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So kids will say stuff, and if an adult hasn't
dealt with their stuff or they're not ready to acknowledge
these things, it comes across as you can't talk to
me about anything and not actually like I'm not ready
to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I don't have the words. I don't know how to
process that yet.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Ooh, that's a really fragile thing for me to even
talk about. You know, it is truly helpful when adults
can do some of their work before they have children.
When you have children, I swear, a lot of your
work is presented in a way like never before. Stuff
(08:33):
you didn't even know, you know. It's like kids just
bring up and not in a bad way, but stuff
is like, oh my gosh, like I didn't even know
I was this impatient until I had to wait for
you to tie your shoes.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, And it's also they're never on the same like
our are not hierarchy, but our agenda is never the same,
like a kid's agenda.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Is to have fun. It doesn't matter like on time.
What is that like?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I also feel like, you know, with parenting, like uh, Externally,
you know, I'm calm and as working with kids and
working in trauma and I've worked in the prison system,
I'm used to like having a poker face and just
get But internally I am screaming at like.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Hey, hey, hey, we're gonna be late. We're gonna be late,
We're gonna be late.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
In my head, I'm like, ah, outside, I'm like, okay, well,
how about we look at what we're doing. That's how
I can tell we're focusing. Let's grab that sock. Please
let me know if you need any help. In my mind,
I am like, it's it's basically let the bodies hit
the floor plan like at max volume. But I also
know that that's not really gonna help him, right, Like
he's not gonna be receptive to that. If anything, it's
(09:42):
just gonna make things more difficult. And then always remembering
that his agenda is different than mine, but it also
doesn't work every single time. Sometimes I'm also like I
have to back up and apologize for raising my voice
because he's so used to like it not being a
thing that if I do raise my voice, He's like,
I don't like when you talk to me like that.
We don't raise our voice, mama. And I'm like, you're
right now. Did you just scream at your brother two
(10:04):
seconds ago?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You sure did. However, we're not on that.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So like, let's like, you know, like he's very good
at pointing out like the rules or like our guidelines
in our home and what we value when I like
mess up a little bit, because I always apologize to
the point where he'll just wait and be like, I'll
wait for the apology because I know it's coming.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
My oldest will do that. Yeah, yeah, my oldest will
say so. And so teacher yells all the time. I'm like,
who yells the most in this house? You you yell
the most? Like I bet you don't yell more than
that teacher. I mean that, I bet you yell more
than that teacher. Right, Like, it's like shocking that people yell.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'm like, you yell. It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
We're going to pause our conversation there and we'll be
back after break. Let's talk about some things that might
happen when parents have not done any emotional healing with
their stuff as their parenting, like what sort of things
(11:06):
might come up for them.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think a lot of parents will be surprised by
their reactions to scenarios. And it doesn't always mean it's
a big scenario, like there was a huge tantrum and
I had a big response, and I couldn't believe I
had that big response. It could just be something as
simple as a statement that brings something up for you
(11:30):
that you haven't address regarding how you feel about yourself.
If your child says they don't like a certain aspect
of their self or their body, or their hair or
even their voice, and you're just like, I never really
thought about what this would be like to parent, or
that was also something that I didn't like when I
was younger and I don't like now, So how do
I address it?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I feel like the.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Biggest commonality is individuals being surprised by their reactions to
things or their thought processes or statements that they say
and afterwards thinking why did I say that. I didn't
even I don't one hundred percent agree with that statement,
but it was like a knee jerk reaction or feeling
concerned that they don't always know the answer because sometimes
instead of slowing down, parents and characters feel the need
(12:15):
to answer the question right then and there and not
realize that it's okay to say I don't know, but
we can find out together, or I need time to
think about this, or I never thought about it that way, let's,
you know, dig deeper into it.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I remember early on we had a scenario with a
grandparent who said too or said about my oldest daughter, like,
you know, I'm sore. I'm sure you're so happy she
has your complexion and she's not darker, and I'm like, oh,
we don't have colorism issues.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Please don't talk about that.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And she was a baby, right like the baby didn't understand.
But I think with children, like your stuff comes up
like that is your or issue, and it's coming out
in parenting and grandparenting, and those things live with us.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Many of the things that adults are battling are things
that their parents had issues with. When you have a
parent who's constantly dieting and then they're talking about your
body as if you should have an issue with your body,
it sort of leads you toward an issue with your body.
So adults in general, we have to be conscious of
(13:30):
how we're talking to children about our issues, what we're
saying that is really what we mean about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And being able to acknowledge that that's okay, you know,
like you know when things pop up, and just realizing
that even if it's an automatic thoughts and not knowing
how to process it, slowing down and being like, I
did not know that it was embedded in me to
have a preference of a different skin tone.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I identify as like very much pro black, and then
that was my automatic first thought and I said it,
And thinking about understanding that we don't grow up in
a vacuum. And when it comes down to it, these
things are like when it comes down to like stereotypes
and things that are embedded in the system.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
These things are embedded.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
In media and movies and you know, books and how
many times can you remember growing up and reading a
book in school that had a protagonist that looked like
you and it wasn't in like the same character development
or things like that. Like a lot of times we
find things that we have to do work on ourselves
so that we can be even more intentional when it
(14:38):
comes to parenting our children. For example, I just knew
I was having like a million girls. I just knew
I was just going to have like a just a bevy,
like just the whole entire house, which is going to
be womanism all day. And we were just going to
gang up on my husband every day, like that's what
we're gonna do, like quism on Bell Hook's quotes and
you know all this.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
And that's just.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Like how I always amaine to the point where I
was just like I had this whole list of like
teen books, and I would have these books according to
age group, and they would all be like predominantly you know, women,
black girls, and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And then my first one.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Was a boy, and I was like, nah, I don't
that's it's leg I think let's get somebody else in here,
because I'm having girls. And then the next one was
a boy, and I'm like, no, well, okay, And I
had to really reframe the aspect of the books that
I was thinking of. A whole new set of fears
(15:31):
came up in me about rearing you know, black youth
is difficult anyway, but rearing someone who's going to be
you know, a young black man.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I had to think about that perceptions that I had.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
My husband and I had to do work about stuff
just as simple as from I don't know if we're
comfortable with them having certain color items not weave.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's not typically me.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
But like or having to challenge certain things like affection.
If you're not used to seeing family members be affectionate
with boys, how do you feel that's going to come
out in your parenting. I remember when we had a
converse about having a kitchen set that was like a
way bigger conversation than I thought it had to be.
But also just knowing that we're coming in with different
things the way that we were reared and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Rough play.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
It's probably always going to be a state of contention
when it comes to football in my home, because it's
going to be a firm no. You know, like just
certain things come up and you don't even realize that.
Like my son, he's so used to me making sure
I finished work before he gets home that he would
just come in the house and he would just know
I'm in here. He would just walk in the house
(16:32):
and start talking because he just knows, like Mama's in
the kitchen. Are doing something like that, but I would
leave work early to do that. And then one time
I said something like he asked me where I go
when I went somewhere, and I said, I go to work,
and he said, no, Dad, dad works, and like, when
I tell you, I did not know how much. I
was like, what do you mean, what do you mean
I'm not rearing a young man who doesn't think women
don't work too outside of the home. But it was
(16:54):
just because he's like, when I come home, you're home.
Dad is the one who picks me up. So clearly
Dad as at work and you're just biding your time
until I get to come home and grace you with
my presence.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Again, my mom, like, that's what your life is.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
But it brought so much out of me of not
wanting to rear a child who doesn't think that women
have the ability to work or be outside the home
and not having a woman waiting for you at home.
And mind you, he was three, and I was just like, hey,
I talking to myself. I'm like, I think this is
escalated quickly, Raquel. I don't think that's with your three
year old men.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I put my foot in my mouth A few weeks ago.
I work from home. Typically I do go into the
office a day or two a week. And my daughter
had to stay home. And I'm always like, when I'm
at home, I'm working, I'm doing all this stuff. But
the day she stayed home, I had a spy day schedule,
and and she had to go to the spy with
(17:50):
me and sit there through my massage and sit there
through my petticare I'm like, I promise you I'm at
home working hard.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
That would be the worst. How many spat days do
you really get? And day one of my that's the
day she should I'm like, I am at home working
very hard.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I'm getting packages off the porch, I'm getting the mail
out of the box, I'm making sure the meat is
stalled by four o'clock, and.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I am working.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
But you know what that that brings to mind, like
our children need to see us resting as well. I
think about the rest that we did not see with
some of the elders and our families. The women for sure,
you know, sometimes men even we didn't see.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I didn't see a lot of resting.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I had a grandmother who cooked breakfast, lunch, and dinner,
and if she sat down, it was like she was
still moving. She was one of those people who sat
down and her leg would shake. It was like, I
gotta get up and do something right. So it was like,
you know, this constant like care taking. You know, I
was raised by a single parent who worked and came
home and cooked and you know, like all of this stuff.
(19:09):
And so sometimes knowing that, hey, your parent is a person.
They need a spy day, they need to go to
bed early. They want to watch these you know shows
on TV.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Too.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
They don't always want to be doing and going. One
of the things that I will say to my kids is, hey, everyone,
I'm about to sit down. If you need anything, need
it now. Like once I sit down, I'm done. Because
I don't sit down like a lot. So it's like, hey,
if I'm sitting down, please let me don't ask me
(19:42):
for anything.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
This is not to do.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, this is not the time to need like anticipate
what your needs might be. You need a step stool,
a bottle open, let me know ahead of time, because
for the next twenty minutes, I'm going to watch this
you know, short show and drink this cup of tea uninterrupted.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I will tell you that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Seeing my and my mom and my grandmom and my
great grandmom do all of these things and not sit down.
It was actually one of the things that I work
through in therapy with you know, the overt and covert
messages about what rest is, whether it's appropriate or inappropriate.
And it's one of the reasons why I always stay
like just burning the capa black Superwoman's syndrome and acknowledging
(20:25):
like signs and symptoms and things like that, because I
actually had to work through that, because there's no way
to give my children the parents they deserve if I'm
never taking a rest, if I'm not modeling appropriate boundaries,
if i am not sticking to things that I have
decided will guide my behavior, like, there's no way for
them to get the parent they deserve. They deserve a
well regulated, well rested, present parent. And when I am
(20:50):
you know, always picking them up when I don't feel
like it, you know, which is violating my boundary of
personal space.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Or when I am.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Staying up late at night even though I should try
to get back all the time that I didn't have
during the day and I'm just staying up even though
I'm tired, then I'm violating my boundaries when it came
to like what my sleep routine is, and then I'm
cranky the next day. So like I typically have to
be aware of some of these things, you know, I
just were embedded in how I typically saw women that
(21:19):
looked like me as moms on TV or read about
them in books or even my mom. I talked about
it in therapy of being like, you know, I totally
understand that beginning with the end of my end in
mind got me to where I am with like my
bachelors and my master's and my doctorate. But it's that
doesn't serve me in a personal space. It served me
in an academic space and a career space. But having
(21:40):
to work through why is it so difficult for me
to sit down? And why do I think it's so
normal to do like fifty thousand things? Even though I
can see in my mom I want her to rest,
why can't I accept it in myself? And it's really
important to model that for children. Like my oldest knows
to say when, like if he needs space, because if
I get touched out, picking you up is just gonna
you know, really just like it just feels overwhelming. So
(22:02):
I let him know that I need space, or I'll
walk to the front room, or I'll read a book,
and if he wants to read his book near me,
he can. But I wanted to normalize, like if I
don't feel comfortable with doing something with my body, if
I don't want to pick you up, and if I
don't want a hug, then that's that's my right to
have that aspect of consent. And I do that with
him too. I ask him if I can give him
a hug, I ask him I can give him a kiss.
(22:23):
I ask him if I can take a picture. I
swear for like six months straight, I never had a
kiss because it was a no.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It was a firm no every time.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And I made this joke, like you know, allowing your
children to understand the importance and consent is difficult because
when my child tells me he doesn't want to kiss,
I say okay, And I said, I go and cry
in the corner like an adult, because you know, I
don't want him to think that like I'm gonna wind
and beg and up the ante so that he sacrifices
what he wants. I have to take a step away
and be like, man, that sucks, but that's his right.
(22:54):
And I think sometimes some parents will like, oh, but
I really wanted a hug and I really wanted a kiss.
And it's kind of teaching your children that like, okay,
well their needs are more important than mine, so I
need to sacrifice that.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, and what that looks like for many folks in adulthood,
like when you're outside of your childhood, that sort of
turns into a parent who expects you to call them
a certain amount, or expects you to spend holidays with them,
and you know, all these different things. And if there's
a no, the parent is having a tantrum. I can't believe.
You know, there's a lot of guilt tripping. And you
(23:28):
know that's really a sign of a parent who has
not been able to emotionally regulate themselves. They certainly haven't
thought outside of, wow, how might I be impeding on
my child's boundaries? And so you know, if that isn't
corrected in childhood, we have the power to own that
(23:50):
an adulthood that I understand that you know, this was
a tactic, This was a parenting skill that you use
to get me in this space. But now I have
the power to say no and not worry about how
you might feel about her, I have to clean up
your feelings or help you when you're in the corner.
That that is something that you have to be able
to do for yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
And you know, something that infuriates people a lot is
me saying, oh, yes, my child is allowed to say
no to me.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
I know, excuse excuse me, Like, yeah, my child is
allowed to say no to me. Why wouldn't they be
able to say no to me?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And this is from a child who was not allowed
to say no, Like my mom was like, hmm, that
was cute.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Do what I told you to do and do it quickly, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
You know, like you like clean clean your room, clean
my room because I just let you, I let you
live here. Like my mom's amazing, but like she very
much had this dichotomy of I want you to read
and challenge the system and stuff like that, as long
as it don't come down to me though, like, don't
be asking me no questions and challenge me.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Just challenge the system.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And with my oldest we work on like making sure
that we respect each other's no. And with I have
a night, I have twenty month old and Russell, my oldest,
his thing was oh, well, Jaden didn't say no. So
now we got to the point of saying like okay.
So it's not only about verbally saying no. It's also
about the fact that like you see him scrunching up
his face when you try to give him a kiss,
(25:13):
you see him moving backwards when you try to take
something from him, and even though you're asking him to share,
he's saying no. Rights through his behavior, through his behavior
and that And you know, I don't think I would
have thought about that until and this is what happens
with a lot of parents. You don't think about it
until the situation happens. Because we had been working on
respecting the verbal no, but my youngest couldn't talk. So Russell,
(25:35):
of course, with his little cute self, Well, Mama, Jaden
didn't say no. And I said, well, we also respect
the non verbal no too, right, Like we look at
facial expressions, we look at body language, we look at
just him moving away. These are all signs that it
is a no. Right, And we also talk about just
because I'm rearing young boys, we also talk about the
(25:55):
difference between like a coerce no and an enthusiastic no.
Because of someone who also teaching at a university at
the undergrad and grad level. The level of concerns I
have with children, you know, they're still children. Their brains
aren't developed till twenty five. I think it's like twenty
seven for young men. The concerns I have about individuals
not knowing the different aspects of consent and like no
(26:15):
means no, and also looking for whether or not it's
an enthusiastic no or corrosion. These kind of things come out.
And we're parents. We have one of the most you know,
important jobs ever because this is where it comes from.
It comes from us. My child is always going to
know that because we I reared him in that aspect.
But I'm around students who don't even know that consent
can be removed at any time. I literally had a
(26:37):
conversation about the fact that consent can be removed at
any time because we just got into a topic of children, thinking, well,
you know, I said yes, but then I didn't like it,
so then I said no. But I guess since I
said yes at first, that's not how it works.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We'll get right back to it after this short break.
On any level, you know, whether you're a parent whether
you're a teacher, whether you're in the grocery store and
you see a child, your aunt, your uncle, anyone listening,
I think has the power to respect a child's boundaries.
(27:14):
So it doesn't necessarily have to be their parent. It's
wonderful if it's their parent. But what if it's your teacher.
What if it's the school's social worker. What if it's
the you know, the lady in the neighborhood who understands
that you don't want to give her a hug today,
Like all of those points of contact or opportunity for
(27:34):
Kias to feel a bit more confident about saying though,
so you can be that empowering adult, whether you have
children or not. I think sometimes we think like, oh,
the parents have to do it. I have to do
it with my niece. I have to do it with
my cousins.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
I have to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
You know, when I'm chaperoning a field trip, I have
to do it with all children. It's not just for
my children. It is for you knowl ldren in my community.
You know when they say it takes a village, this
is what the village looks like. It's like having boundaries
in any setting you know, it's not just I will
only do this with my children. It's if a child
(28:13):
doesn't want to talk to me as a stranger. I mean,
I've had strangers challenge that your kid didn't say, Hi,
well you're a stranger. Yeah, what why should they speak
to you?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Because the obedience piece, it's because they want the obedience.
It's obedience. It's because oh I'm the adult. Oh okay, well.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
You are ready adult play and energy we don't want
and attitude, we don't do that energy. Let me go
ahead and get my books out these library so I
could go.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Let me get me and my baby up out of
here before we have out here and get my little child.
I take it on out of here.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
You know, there's so many times parents are or adults
overall are saying like, you know, you're supposed to respect people.
And when I would deal with this in family therapy
and they're like, my child hasn't respecting me, And I said, okay, well,
just to make sure we're on the same page, because
I want to make sure we're using or utilizing the
same vocab.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
What do you identify as respect?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And their definition of respect is just blindly following them.
It's not about building it over time. It's not about
having you have the openness to share. It's about if
I ask you to do something, you do it. I
don't want you to ask me why I want you
to do it quickly. I don't want to hear back talk.
And I said, that's obedience, right, Like, that's not respect.
And I feel like it's very difficult for people to
(29:29):
provide something that they didn't know they had the wrong
term for. Because one of the things I also get
when it comes to parenting in psychology is people really
mix up boundaries versus rules, And I'm like, well, you know,
someone can violate a rule and your boundary still stays firm.
So those are two different things. But also the aspect
of obedience versus respect, and when it comes to this
realm of parenting, there's way more language involved. A lot
(29:52):
of times people will comment on how much my son
talks or his vocab, and I said, that's because I'm
constantly answering his questions. I'm constant happened to explain to
him or even go like if he's like, oh, can
I go to the left or the right, and I'm like, oh,
I guess they both go in the direction that you
want to go.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Which way do you want to go? Right?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Like, if you're consistently having these conversations with children, allowing
them to critically think, allowing them to ask you questions,
you're increasing their verbal acumen. You're leading to their ability
to be able to have a more dialogue, be able
to advocate for themselves. And it's difficult if you don't
even have the language for it. Because children who are
used to asking questions and being affirmed and being apologized
(30:32):
to and having conversations, they're more verbal because they're used
to having conversations. I'm like, yeah, he talk all the time, honey.
And you may think it's just because I'm a talker,
which is also true. But I also talk to my
child about everything, and he asks me questions and I
answer them. I always state that, like my poor husband, like,
I'm very much a big talker. My husband is from Nashville.
(30:53):
He's like I feel like, I always say, he's like
typical Southern man and you know bad, you know, he
uses the words when he doesn't want to when he
does what he does, but like he's surrounded by talkers
and he talks more now too, Like He's always talked.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
A lot to me.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, we've been together for like fourteen years, but
like he talks more now all the time, Like he's
he wasn't weird in a home where he could ask
fifty thousand questions. It's also the fact that, like parents
were working, he has two other siblings. We have stuff
to do. I don't have time to answer your questions
about like when can I do this? When can I
do that?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
What? You know?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So that's how he was brought up, and we typically
parent the way that we were parented.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
It was a learning car for both of us.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
To be to be like, well he's asking I feel like,
you know, the no thing is is a line and
I'm like, I totally get that. Well, let's talk about that,
because I'm all for my child telling me no. Do
I like it every single second?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
My youngest child has figured out to say no thank you,
but she says it for everything. So it's like, okay,
go take your shower, no thank you, no thank you.
I'm like, girl, that is not our shough way, yo.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
You well that have boh okay.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's when I bring in a healthy and safe thing
because with my son, it's the tooth brushing, and I'm
just like honey, and he always wants to be so close,
and I'm like sir, oh, like my goodness, right, And
that's when I bring up the healthy and safe thing,
like listen, now, no, thank you, I get that, but
like you know, if you don't brush your teeth, all
(32:24):
those germs, you're gonna swallow those germs, you're gonna get sick.
And he loves school so much, and I said, and
then you're gona miss school because we don't send the
two kids to school, So you brush your teeth or
you're gonna have to stay home for school eventually because
you're gonna get sick. Right, Like my most supporn jobs
are to keep you healthy and safe. Luckily that works sometimes,
but I still have to repeat it like fifty thousand times,
like the level of patience I have to have, and
to be honest, I don't always have it. Like there
(32:45):
are times when I have to apologize and make that statement,
and the best apology is changed behaviors.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I have to apologize for it. I'm sorry I.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Raised my voice because it's time to go and we
were rushing. Next time, I'm just gonna get you up earlier,
so that I get used to the fact that you
like to ski twenty times between the living room and
the kitchen before taking one bite up the waffle, you know, like.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Because part of that is me.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
A lot of the solutions are stuff that I have
to do, Like I would love to sleep till seven,
but you take an hour to get ready, so now
we both up at six, Like does it suck? Yes,
but this is what we have to do because his
agenda is fun. He's not gonna rush quicker. And sometimes
I get it wrong, like raise my voice, apologize, talk
about how I'm gonna change it and work on it
next time, like that's that's it. But I'm not gonna
(33:26):
get it right every single time because it is frustrating
and I do have things to be on time for
and I can't keep dropping you off late. There's no
reason that the front desk woman should know me my
name and my favorite color, Like, there's no way she
should know that. I gotta check him in so often.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Rock? Hell?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Nothing much? What you doing today? What you got for lunch?
What you got for lunch today? What you don't mind you?
It's because my child is always late. It's just like
what I know hear.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
What I'm hearing in this is whether you have children
or not, this is a beautiful oportunity for us to
figure out what we did not get and to work
through those things that patience. I hear patients coming up
a lot, like how have we become impatient with ourselves?
(34:14):
How have we not explored our boundaries for personal touch
or conversations with other people? I'm hearing a lot of
the parents and work, and for sure, like the challenges
that you have with your children or with other people
is really about you, And I think that's what relationships
(34:36):
are about, right, Like it's teaching you, like this is
your area of growth. You know, the things that are
easy are the things that are easy. You know, it's
very easy for me to you know, listen to people.
It can be a little harder for me to be
patient with them for others. Patients comes a little more east.
So the challenges we have with people is revealing, you know,
(34:59):
those spaces if we want to be in relationship, you know,
where we may need to continue some of the work
and we have to ask those really hard questions of
what did I not get and what do I need?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yes, I always say that's the biggest thing in terms
of communication breakdowns when we're talking about conflict, like in
session or in class, when I'm talking about conflict with
others or family members or even self, and I challenge
individuals to ask to ask yourself and ask the person like, Okay,
you're having a disconnect, what did I get versus what
(35:34):
did I need? Like I got solutions and I needed
a listening year, right, and even just acknowledging the fact
that typically if what you got was what you needed,
you not really have a difficulty with the conflict. But
even just normalizing the fact that you have to teach
people how to treat you at times, not everyone's going
to know how to treat you, especially if you don't
know how to treat yourself. You mentioned such a good
(35:56):
point of like where are you not being patient with yourself?
And most of the time there are so many realms
where individuals are not being patient with themselves or shaming themselves.
And I always say, like with shame, and it's like
a coin. One side of shame, the other side is compassion. Right,
you have to acknowledge that. So it's hard to provide
children and provide others whether they're your children or children
(36:17):
in general, with things that you don't provide to yourself.
Like parenting is all about modeling I very much, you
know I don't. My children are not my world. I
always say, like, you know, I heard describe ones like
they're in my galaxy, like they're one of the planets,
you know, But you know I'm not. Sometimes were about
to go to the Sun, you're you know, Mars and
Pluto or whatever. But it's also the fact that, like
(36:37):
I want to model normal experiences. I consider it to
be one of the most important things that I do
because I'm contributing humans to this world. I want to
normalize certain experiences. I want you to get used to.
Conflict doesn't require degradation. It's not conflict that's the issue.
It's poor conflict resolution. We're going to disagree. Let's talk
about that. I need space. Let's talk about you providing.
(37:00):
We talk about consent and me providing compassion to myself
so I know that they deserve a well rested parent
who has activities outside of them. I don't want my
children to have an unhealthy barometer of well Everything was
sacrificed for me. Nobody ever said no to me because
it also it's a dangerous space where no one says
no to you, so you think it's od for someone
to say no to you.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Power dynamics.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And one of the things that I think about differently
is when I thought I was going to have like
a whole million girls in the house, I thought about
power dynamics and rearing young girls. I still think about
power dynamics, but I think about it in terms of
the fact that I'm rearing young men and I need
them to be aware of consent and coercient and healthy
yeses and like unhealthy nos and power dynamics. I need
(37:43):
them to grasp this because there's so many people who don't,
and like, you know, our job is going to be
done eventually, Like I totally get like we can't put
everything on us, but for now.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
They're going to learn that from me.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
So even when shifting the aspect of having boys, I
was like it shifted in me like I was teaching
I was thinking of teaching girls about power dynamics from
a different realm. Now I'm like, we really have to
I need you to understand consent. I need you to
understand no means no. I need you to understand just
joking and saying, oh no, that's a no, Like I
really need them to grasp this, and I want them
to normalize that because I want my children to be
(38:17):
so normalized in the fact that we ask questions, that
there are no secrets, that we respect each other's know
that we have conversations that any person that doesn't do that,
any environment that doesn't respect them, there's already an alarm
going off because they're so used to being in a
healthy environment that they can pick out the unhealthy ones quicker.
And it's such an amazing I would say responsibility that
(38:40):
all individuals, adults, whether you have children or not, you
can have that amazing responsibility that we're g rearing a
new generation of children who they're so used to like
people make mistakes, that's not my identity, that they try
new things. They're so used to respect that when things
people are being disrespectful, it's a group aspect, the community
aspect to call someone in. We we rear them in
(39:01):
this thing that's so normal that unhealthy is like a
red flare.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
They're like, oh, whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa whoa not
r out here, partner, not right here? You know, like
that's not what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I feel like it's such an amazing job to have,
and another amazing even like responsibility with community, because it
doesn't just have to be your child. You can respect
just like you mentioned on the field trip, you can
respect you know, a niece and a nephew. It's just
if we can create a new generation of you know stuff.
A lot of people really get bogged down on. You know,
I was raised differently, and I always say, listen, as
(39:34):
a psychologist, do you know the results of how we
were raised?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Because I do. I right, I wrote my dissertation, you know,
like it's not it's you know.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Here are the results of the nineties, here are the
results of the eighties.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Let not go different?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
You know, well, who says this work? Well, I'm gonna
tell you what didn't work this? You know, why not
try something different, treat them as humans. If we can
foster this environment, it's just so normalized people make mistakes.
We try something different, we respect, no, we try something different.
Like there's so many children who adults who fear because
they just never got no normalized or they always thought
(40:17):
they had to be perfect, or they felt like they
couldn't take a rest and it comes out. You know,
if it didn't come out, I wouldn't I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Would have a job. It would probably be doing something else.
But like.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Doctor Martin, where can the people find you?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I am on.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
All of the interwebs as Raquel Martin, PhD. I have
a podcast, Mind Your Mental Podcast. We have two seasons out.
We will be having a third season next year. Hopefully
you will also be on.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
That season, which will be phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
But I post pretty regularly just about like mental health content,
talking about how my children have, just how I work
for them and what they ask me to do that day,
and just trying to just normalize the aspect of you know,
it may feel tough, because it is tough, but it's you.
You always have an aspect of community and in safe
(41:08):
space where you're able to get education. And possibly a
chuckle because it's very difficult for me to stay serious
for even a ninety second video, like I can never
I try, like I'd be like and then I just
say something and inappropriate and I'm like, yeah, well what
was that?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
What was that? Twenty seconds? We try, like we really try, and.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
It's only inappropriate if it doesn't lay on well with
your audience.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
And it always does. It always is. It's not inappropriate,
it's appropriate. Yeah, it's appropriate. I'm just a goofa.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm always gonna be like this, like if you're just
working honestly in trauma with child and family therapy. I
have had a child be fine one second, like throw
a chair the next and ask for Teddy Grahams one second.
And that's just ten minutes into the session. We got
forty more minutes to go, like you know, so it's
just like, well, here we are. You just gotta you
just gotta get used to it. That and just a
(41:59):
reminder or parenting will teach you more about yourself than
anything else. I think that's what a lot of people
go into parenting thinking like we don't learn so much
about my child, You're gonna learn more about you. And
it's amazing to have that evolution of thought and give
that in your relationship with your child or with children
in general.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Well, wonderful, Thank you so much for your time today,
doctor Martin.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Thank you for having me. You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
You need to hear. This is an iHeart production host
it by me Nedra Glover to wob Our executive producer
is Joel Baldique. Our senior producer and editor is Mia
don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with your questions
about boundaries and relationships at you need to hear this
at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to rate our
(42:48):
show wherever you listen to it, and share this episode
with someone who needs to hear this. Talk to you
next time
Speaker 2 (43:00):
You say the B
Hi, I'm Nedri Glover Towab and you need to hear this.
This week, I'm in conversation with doctor Raquel Martin will
be in conversation about intentional parenting. Whether you are a
parent or you are an adult child, if you are
thinking about becoming a parent, I think this is a
(00:21):
wonderful episode for you to tune into. Doctor Martin. I
am so excited to have you on this show. You
have a huge following on Instagram and I'm sure other platforms.
Your work centers on mental health and relationships, and I
am always amazed by your videos on parenting in particular.
(00:46):
The thing that sticks out for me is the way
you approach parenting in this intentional way. I think for
some of us we call it gentle parenting. For others
it might be new Age parenting. But I like to
think of it as parenting with intention and treating children
(01:07):
as people, which is I guess new age. Maybe it's
more new age, But tell me a little bit about
how you develop your personal and professional practice of parenting.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So I always state that I just parent like my
children are human beings, because some people will be like,
are you gentle parenting or are you conscious parenting, and
I'm like, I don't know either of those frameworks, and
as a scientist, I'm not going to subscribe to something
that I haven't done a full literature view on. I
just treat my children like human beings. I lead with
the aspect of respect instead of obedience. You know, obedience
(01:44):
builds resentment. Respect builds relationships, but it also takes more time.
And it's also from one I was parented an amazing way.
Also though training in trauma informed care, trauma focused cognitive
behavioral therapy, child trauma, dealing with assault and attachment disorders,
and learning parent child interaction therapy. Like there's so many
(02:05):
modalities that I had to learn through my training that
some things I was like, oh, I'm off for this,
some things I wasn't. But the underlying aspect was just
being moore intentional about all of the encounters that you
have slowing down. I always state that, like I try
to regulate myself so I can co regulate my children
and then try.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
To just chill, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Like people always ask like, oh, is it easier being
a family and child family psychologist, And I said no,
just because I know it's developmentally appropriate for him to
throw that item doesn't mean I don't want to rip
my face off every time he throws that item. My
husband asked me the other day, like, is it normal
for him to be this dramatic? I said, yeah, it's rough,
Ain't it Like?
Speaker 1 (02:44):
It doesn't make it any when we have the freedom
to be that dramatic.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
He has the freedom to do.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, some of us never had that freedom, so we
think it's weird when children are not listening or throwing stuff.
It's like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with these kids.
It's like they're free. They feel comfortable being themselves.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
One of the teachers at my oldest, because I'm a
four year old and a twenty month old, she was like,
I dropped off books because there aren't many books that
look like my baby. I'm in his school. I'm in Nashville, Tennessee,
which is pretty typical, and I already know teachers already
have enough on their hands, so I just buy the
books and give them the books, Like, I'm not expecting
y'all to do anything else.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
You guys already have to decorate your whole stuff and
do everything.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And when I was dropping them off, she said, I
just told Russell like, I can't wait till our parent
teacher conference because she said he does not listen. I said,
he don't do it. Well, here are these books. I'm
gonna see you on Thursday. You know you're not telling
me anything.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
He's used to being at home with Popop and Gigi
or Mama and dad, Dad are t t and Lulu,
whose whole entire world is Russell.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
What would you like? Do you have any questions?
Speaker 2 (03:47):
You always are going to get a turn because it's
just you versus going to school and him being like, hey,
my my hand is raised.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
What do you mean You're not gonna what do you
mean You're not gonna call the me? I am Russell.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
You're not gonna call me? Like, there's gonna be a transition.
And I had the conversation with my husband and he's
just like, should we be concerned? And I said no,
there's going to be some transition between him getting all
the attention from people who are enamored by their grand
baby and their baby, then people who are amazing at
their job, but they also have like fifteen other kids
in the class. So I just get used to I
(04:17):
let my child query when it comes to disrespectful.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I actually I enjoyed.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
My child going toe to toe with me, and I
know that seems like a lot, but he is such
a critical thinker.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Is it exhausting? Yes, have I said to him recently?
Speaker 2 (04:31):
My new thing I say is like, be smart in school, Okay,
you know, just answer the question. But he goes toe
to topy with questions and he's not just respectful, he
just has queries. And I genuinely love it because if
you can't ask your most salient relationship questions, if you
don't feel comfortable, like with the person who's around you
your whole life, asking them questions or problem solving, then like,
(04:53):
what do I expect for him when he's in a
different scenario and there's an adult and something doesn't seem
right or it makes him feel uncomfortable in his body?
Like what can what can I expect? I really I
always state like your children should go a little toe
to toe with you, right, Like what do you know?
It's a dangerous place to have children who just blindly
follow people just because they're adults, despite like what it
(05:14):
makes them feel, how they feel in their body, whether
it feels yucky, like that's a dangerous place to be,
so I typically, you know, facilitate, like, yes, ask me questions,
but I always say, my most important job is to
keep you healthy and safe. So if I'm saying like,
if I'm not giving you a bunch of info, it's
because I'm trying to keep you safe. So it's like,
you know, if don't ask me why a million times
(05:36):
you have to move out of the way of the car,
Move out of the way of the car, honey, and
we'll talk. We'll talk about that in five minutes once
we are out of the way of the car. But
I always try to apologize to my child, make mistakes
in front of my child, normalize mistakes, and just have
normal conversations with them, which are getting more fun as
it gets older, because I don't know if it's all children.
(05:57):
But he's a little like witty, which I'm just like
kids like a dry, corny humor, which I love because
I'm a very corny person. So when he makes these
corny jokes, like I'm on the floor dying laughing, and
my husband is just like rolling his eyes like this
is I'll give it a chuckle, but I'll laugh about
it all day because it's just like funny.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
I think for children to be able to be themselves,
it does require them to have a safe adult. And
there are some adults because of who they are and
because of their i would say, lack of mental health care,
it makes sense for them, you know, it may have
made sense for them to raise children who just followed right,
(06:41):
because a kid asking questions is like, what are you
saying about me? I can't tolerate the discomfort of having
to ask it, So it might be easier for me
to say, don't ask me any questions, right, just do
what I say it. And I think sometimes when you
grow up in that environment, it feels like, oh my gosh,
(07:02):
I can't talk to this person, But it's really a
lack of you know, this person being able to withstand
any accountability, because sometimes kids do have really good questions
that are like, yeah, that adult wasn't right and that
could be offensive to an adult with a really fragile ego.
And I think sometimes kids are just talking, you know,
(07:26):
because they're trying to figure out the world make sense
of it. And when you have an adult who hasn't
processed these things of you know, I'm just thinking, like,
why didn't your husband help you with dinner. It's like,
be quiet, kid, It's like, seems like a reasonable question.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah right, versus me will be like a slow pan,
like I don't know, why don't we ask him?
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Sorry? Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
So kids will say stuff, and if an adult hasn't
dealt with their stuff or they're not ready to acknowledge
these things, it comes across as you can't talk to
me about anything and not actually like I'm not ready
to talk about that.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
I don't have the words. I don't know how to
process that yet.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Ooh, that's a really fragile thing for me to even
talk about. You know, it is truly helpful when adults
can do some of their work before they have children.
When you have children, I swear, a lot of your
work is presented in a way like never before. Stuff
(08:33):
you didn't even know, you know. It's like kids just
bring up and not in a bad way, but stuff
is like, oh my gosh, like I didn't even know
I was this impatient until I had to wait for
you to tie your shoes.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, And it's also they're never on the same like
our are not hierarchy, but our agenda is never the same,
like a kid's agenda.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Is to have fun. It doesn't matter like on time.
What is that like?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I also feel like, you know, with parenting, like uh, Externally,
you know, I'm calm and as working with kids and
working in trauma and I've worked in the prison system,
I'm used to like having a poker face and just
get But internally I am screaming at like.
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Hey, hey, hey, we're gonna be late. We're gonna be late,
We're gonna be late.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
In my head, I'm like, ah, outside, I'm like, okay, well,
how about we look at what we're doing. That's how
I can tell we're focusing. Let's grab that sock. Please
let me know if you need any help. In my mind,
I am like, it's it's basically let the bodies hit
the floor plan like at max volume. But I also
know that that's not really gonna help him, right, Like
he's not gonna be receptive to that. If anything, it's
(09:42):
just gonna make things more difficult. And then always remembering
that his agenda is different than mine, but it also
doesn't work every single time. Sometimes I'm also like I
have to back up and apologize for raising my voice
because he's so used to like it not being a
thing that if I do raise my voice, He's like,
I don't like when you talk to me like that.
We don't raise our voice, mama. And I'm like, you're
right now. Did you just scream at your brother two
(10:04):
seconds ago?
Speaker 3 (10:04):
You sure did. However, we're not on that.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
So like, let's like, you know, like he's very good
at pointing out like the rules or like our guidelines
in our home and what we value when I like
mess up a little bit, because I always apologize to
the point where he'll just wait and be like, I'll
wait for the apology because I know it's coming.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
My oldest will do that. Yeah, yeah, my oldest will
say so. And so teacher yells all the time. I'm like,
who yells the most in this house? You you yell
the most? Like I bet you don't yell more than
that teacher. I mean that, I bet you yell more
than that teacher. Right, Like, it's like shocking that people yell.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
I'm like, you yell. It's a lot.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
We're going to pause our conversation there and we'll be
back after break. Let's talk about some things that might
happen when parents have not done any emotional healing with
their stuff as their parenting, like what sort of things
(11:06):
might come up for them.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
I think a lot of parents will be surprised by
their reactions to scenarios. And it doesn't always mean it's
a big scenario, like there was a huge tantrum and
I had a big response, and I couldn't believe I
had that big response. It could just be something as
simple as a statement that brings something up for you
(11:30):
that you haven't address regarding how you feel about yourself.
If your child says they don't like a certain aspect
of their self or their body, or their hair or
even their voice, and you're just like, I never really
thought about what this would be like to parent, or
that was also something that I didn't like when I
was younger and I don't like now, So how do
I address it?
Speaker 3 (11:50):
I feel like the.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Biggest commonality is individuals being surprised by their reactions to
things or their thought processes or statements that they say
and afterwards thinking why did I say that. I didn't
even I don't one hundred percent agree with that statement,
but it was like a knee jerk reaction or feeling
concerned that they don't always know the answer because sometimes
instead of slowing down, parents and characters feel the need
(12:15):
to answer the question right then and there and not
realize that it's okay to say I don't know, but
we can find out together, or I need time to
think about this, or I never thought about it that way, let's,
you know, dig deeper into it.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I remember early on we had a scenario with a
grandparent who said too or said about my oldest daughter, like,
you know, I'm sore. I'm sure you're so happy she
has your complexion and she's not darker, and I'm like, oh,
we don't have colorism issues.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Please don't talk about that.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
And she was a baby, right like the baby didn't understand.
But I think with children, like your stuff comes up
like that is your or issue, and it's coming out
in parenting and grandparenting, and those things live with us.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
You know.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Many of the things that adults are battling are things
that their parents had issues with. When you have a
parent who's constantly dieting and then they're talking about your
body as if you should have an issue with your body,
it sort of leads you toward an issue with your body.
So adults in general, we have to be conscious of
(13:30):
how we're talking to children about our issues, what we're
saying that is really what we mean about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
And being able to acknowledge that that's okay, you know,
like you know when things pop up, and just realizing
that even if it's an automatic thoughts and not knowing
how to process it, slowing down and being like, I
did not know that it was embedded in me to
have a preference of a different skin tone.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Where did that come from?
Speaker 2 (14:01):
I identify as like very much pro black, and then
that was my automatic first thought and I said it,
And thinking about understanding that we don't grow up in
a vacuum. And when it comes down to it, these
things are like when it comes down to like stereotypes
and things that are embedded in the system.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
These things are embedded.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
In media and movies and you know, books and how
many times can you remember growing up and reading a
book in school that had a protagonist that looked like
you and it wasn't in like the same character development
or things like that. Like a lot of times we
find things that we have to do work on ourselves
so that we can be even more intentional when it
(14:38):
comes to parenting our children. For example, I just knew
I was having like a million girls. I just knew
I was just going to have like a just a bevy,
like just the whole entire house, which is going to
be womanism all day. And we were just going to
gang up on my husband every day, like that's what
we're gonna do, like quism on Bell Hook's quotes and
you know all this.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
And that's just.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Like how I always amaine to the point where I
was just like I had this whole list of like
teen books, and I would have these books according to
age group, and they would all be like predominantly you know, women,
black girls, and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (15:09):
And then my first one.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Was a boy, and I was like, nah, I don't
that's it's leg I think let's get somebody else in here,
because I'm having girls. And then the next one was
a boy, and I'm like, no, well, okay, And I
had to really reframe the aspect of the books that
I was thinking of. A whole new set of fears
(15:31):
came up in me about rearing you know, black youth
is difficult anyway, but rearing someone who's going to be
you know, a young black man.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
I had to think about that perceptions that I had.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
My husband and I had to do work about stuff
just as simple as from I don't know if we're
comfortable with them having certain color items not weave.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
It's not typically me.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
But like or having to challenge certain things like affection.
If you're not used to seeing family members be affectionate
with boys, how do you feel that's going to come
out in your parenting. I remember when we had a
converse about having a kitchen set that was like a
way bigger conversation than I thought it had to be.
But also just knowing that we're coming in with different
things the way that we were reared and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Rough play.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
It's probably always going to be a state of contention
when it comes to football in my home, because it's
going to be a firm no. You know, like just
certain things come up and you don't even realize that.
Like my son, he's so used to me making sure
I finished work before he gets home that he would
just come in the house and he would just know
I'm in here. He would just walk in the house
(16:32):
and start talking because he just knows, like Mama's in
the kitchen. Are doing something like that, but I would
leave work early to do that. And then one time
I said something like he asked me where I go
when I went somewhere, and I said, I go to work,
and he said, no, Dad, dad works, and like, when
I tell you, I did not know how much. I
was like, what do you mean, what do you mean
I'm not rearing a young man who doesn't think women
don't work too outside of the home. But it was
(16:54):
just because he's like, when I come home, you're home.
Dad is the one who picks me up. So clearly
Dad as at work and you're just biding your time
until I get to come home and grace you with
my presence.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Again, my mom, like, that's what your life is.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
But it brought so much out of me of not
wanting to rear a child who doesn't think that women
have the ability to work or be outside the home
and not having a woman waiting for you at home.
And mind you, he was three, and I was just like, hey,
I talking to myself. I'm like, I think this is
escalated quickly, Raquel. I don't think that's with your three
year old men.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
I put my foot in my mouth A few weeks ago.
I work from home. Typically I do go into the
office a day or two a week. And my daughter
had to stay home. And I'm always like, when I'm
at home, I'm working, I'm doing all this stuff. But
the day she stayed home, I had a spy day schedule,
and and she had to go to the spy with
(17:50):
me and sit there through my massage and sit there
through my petticare I'm like, I promise you I'm at
home working hard.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
That would be the worst. How many spat days do
you really get? And day one of my that's the
day she should I'm like, I am at home working
very hard.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I'm getting packages off the porch, I'm getting the mail
out of the box, I'm making sure the meat is
stalled by four o'clock, and.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
I am working.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
But you know what that that brings to mind, like
our children need to see us resting as well. I
think about the rest that we did not see with
some of the elders and our families. The women for sure,
you know, sometimes men even we didn't see.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
I didn't see a lot of resting.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I had a grandmother who cooked breakfast, lunch, and dinner,
and if she sat down, it was like she was
still moving. She was one of those people who sat
down and her leg would shake. It was like, I
gotta get up and do something right. So it was like,
you know, this constant like care taking. You know, I
was raised by a single parent who worked and came
home and cooked and you know, like all of this stuff.
(19:09):
And so sometimes knowing that, hey, your parent is a person.
They need a spy day, they need to go to
bed early. They want to watch these you know shows
on TV.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Too.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
They don't always want to be doing and going. One
of the things that I will say to my kids is, hey, everyone,
I'm about to sit down. If you need anything, need
it now. Like once I sit down, I'm done. Because
I don't sit down like a lot. So it's like, hey,
if I'm sitting down, please let me don't ask me
(19:42):
for anything.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
This is not to do.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, this is not the time to need like anticipate
what your needs might be. You need a step stool,
a bottle open, let me know ahead of time, because
for the next twenty minutes, I'm going to watch this
you know, short show and drink this cup of tea uninterrupted.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
I will tell you that.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Seeing my and my mom and my grandmom and my
great grandmom do all of these things and not sit down.
It was actually one of the things that I work
through in therapy with you know, the overt and covert
messages about what rest is, whether it's appropriate or inappropriate.
And it's one of the reasons why I always stay
like just burning the capa black Superwoman's syndrome and acknowledging
(20:25):
like signs and symptoms and things like that, because I
actually had to work through that, because there's no way
to give my children the parents they deserve if I'm
never taking a rest, if I'm not modeling appropriate boundaries,
if i am not sticking to things that I have
decided will guide my behavior, like, there's no way for
them to get the parent they deserve. They deserve a
well regulated, well rested, present parent. And when I am
(20:50):
you know, always picking them up when I don't feel
like it, you know, which is violating my boundary of
personal space.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Or when I am.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Staying up late at night even though I should try
to get back all the time that I didn't have
during the day and I'm just staying up even though
I'm tired, then I'm violating my boundaries when it came
to like what my sleep routine is, and then I'm
cranky the next day. So like I typically have to
be aware of some of these things, you know, I
just were embedded in how I typically saw women that
(21:19):
looked like me as moms on TV or read about
them in books or even my mom. I talked about
it in therapy of being like, you know, I totally
understand that beginning with the end of my end in
mind got me to where I am with like my
bachelors and my master's and my doctorate. But it's that
doesn't serve me in a personal space. It served me
in an academic space and a career space. But having
(21:40):
to work through why is it so difficult for me
to sit down? And why do I think it's so
normal to do like fifty thousand things? Even though I
can see in my mom I want her to rest,
why can't I accept it in myself? And it's really
important to model that for children. Like my oldest knows
to say when, like if he needs space, because if
I get touched out, picking you up is just gonna
you know, really just like it just feels overwhelming. So
(22:02):
I let him know that I need space, or I'll
walk to the front room, or I'll read a book,
and if he wants to read his book near me,
he can. But I wanted to normalize, like if I
don't feel comfortable with doing something with my body, if
I don't want to pick you up, and if I
don't want a hug, then that's that's my right to
have that aspect of consent. And I do that with
him too. I ask him if I can give him
a hug, I ask him I can give him a kiss.
(22:23):
I ask him if I can take a picture. I
swear for like six months straight, I never had a
kiss because it was a no.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
It was a firm no every time.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
And I made this joke, like you know, allowing your
children to understand the importance and consent is difficult because
when my child tells me he doesn't want to kiss,
I say okay, And I said, I go and cry
in the corner like an adult, because you know, I
don't want him to think that like I'm gonna wind
and beg and up the ante so that he sacrifices
what he wants. I have to take a step away
and be like, man, that sucks, but that's his right.
(22:54):
And I think sometimes some parents will like, oh, but
I really wanted a hug and I really wanted a kiss.
And it's kind of teaching your children that like, okay,
well their needs are more important than mine, so I
need to sacrifice that.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, and what that looks like for many folks in adulthood,
like when you're outside of your childhood, that sort of
turns into a parent who expects you to call them
a certain amount, or expects you to spend holidays with them,
and you know, all these different things. And if there's
a no, the parent is having a tantrum. I can't believe.
You know, there's a lot of guilt tripping. And you
(23:28):
know that's really a sign of a parent who has
not been able to emotionally regulate themselves. They certainly haven't
thought outside of, wow, how might I be impeding on
my child's boundaries? And so you know, if that isn't
corrected in childhood, we have the power to own that
(23:50):
an adulthood that I understand that you know, this was
a tactic, This was a parenting skill that you use
to get me in this space. But now I have
the power to say no and not worry about how
you might feel about her, I have to clean up
your feelings or help you when you're in the corner.
That that is something that you have to be able
to do for yourself exactly.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
And you know, something that infuriates people a lot is
me saying, oh, yes, my child is allowed to say
no to me.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
I know, excuse excuse me, Like, yeah, my child is
allowed to say no to me. Why wouldn't they be
able to say no to me?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
And this is from a child who was not allowed
to say no, Like my mom was like, hmm, that
was cute.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
Do what I told you to do and do it quickly, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
You know, like you like clean clean your room, clean
my room because I just let you, I let you
live here. Like my mom's amazing, but like she very
much had this dichotomy of I want you to read
and challenge the system and stuff like that, as long
as it don't come down to me though, like, don't
be asking me no questions and challenge me.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Just challenge the system.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
And with my oldest we work on like making sure
that we respect each other's no. And with I have
a night, I have twenty month old and Russell, my oldest,
his thing was oh, well, Jaden didn't say no. So
now we got to the point of saying like okay.
So it's not only about verbally saying no. It's also
about the fact that like you see him scrunching up
his face when you try to give him a kiss,
(25:13):
you see him moving backwards when you try to take
something from him, and even though you're asking him to share,
he's saying no. Rights through his behavior, through his behavior
and that And you know, I don't think I would
have thought about that until and this is what happens
with a lot of parents. You don't think about it
until the situation happens. Because we had been working on
respecting the verbal no, but my youngest couldn't talk. So Russell,
(25:35):
of course, with his little cute self, Well, Mama, Jaden
didn't say no. And I said, well, we also respect
the non verbal no too, right, Like we look at
facial expressions, we look at body language, we look at
just him moving away. These are all signs that it
is a no. Right, And we also talk about just
because I'm rearing young boys, we also talk about the
(25:55):
difference between like a coerce no and an enthusiastic no.
Because of someone who also teaching at a university at
the undergrad and grad level. The level of concerns I
have with children, you know, they're still children. Their brains
aren't developed till twenty five. I think it's like twenty
seven for young men. The concerns I have about individuals
not knowing the different aspects of consent and like no
(26:15):
means no, and also looking for whether or not it's
an enthusiastic no or corrosion. These kind of things come out.
And we're parents. We have one of the most you know,
important jobs ever because this is where it comes from.
It comes from us. My child is always going to
know that because we I reared him in that aspect.
But I'm around students who don't even know that consent
can be removed at any time. I literally had a
(26:37):
conversation about the fact that consent can be removed at
any time because we just got into a topic of children, thinking, well,
you know, I said yes, but then I didn't like it,
so then I said no. But I guess since I
said yes at first, that's not how it works.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We'll get right back to it after this short break.
On any level, you know, whether you're a parent whether
you're a teacher, whether you're in the grocery store and
you see a child, your aunt, your uncle, anyone listening,
I think has the power to respect a child's boundaries.
(27:14):
So it doesn't necessarily have to be their parent. It's
wonderful if it's their parent. But what if it's your teacher.
What if it's the school's social worker. What if it's
the you know, the lady in the neighborhood who understands
that you don't want to give her a hug today,
Like all of those points of contact or opportunity for
(27:34):
Kias to feel a bit more confident about saying though,
so you can be that empowering adult, whether you have
children or not. I think sometimes we think like, oh,
the parents have to do it. I have to do
it with my niece. I have to do it with
my cousins.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
I have to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
You know, when I'm chaperoning a field trip, I have
to do it with all children. It's not just for
my children. It is for you knowl ldren in my community.
You know when they say it takes a village, this
is what the village looks like. It's like having boundaries
in any setting you know, it's not just I will
only do this with my children. It's if a child
(28:13):
doesn't want to talk to me as a stranger. I mean,
I've had strangers challenge that your kid didn't say, Hi,
well you're a stranger. Yeah, what why should they speak
to you?
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Because the obedience piece, it's because they want the obedience.
It's obedience. It's because oh I'm the adult. Oh okay, well.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
You are ready adult play and energy we don't want
and attitude, we don't do that energy. Let me go
ahead and get my books out these library so I
could go.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Let me get me and my baby up out of
here before we have out here and get my little child.
I take it on out of here.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
You know, there's so many times parents are or adults
overall are saying like, you know, you're supposed to respect people.
And when I would deal with this in family therapy
and they're like, my child hasn't respecting me, And I said, okay, well,
just to make sure we're on the same page, because
I want to make sure we're using or utilizing the
same vocab.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
What do you identify as respect?
Speaker 2 (29:06):
And their definition of respect is just blindly following them.
It's not about building it over time. It's not about
having you have the openness to share. It's about if
I ask you to do something, you do it. I
don't want you to ask me why I want you
to do it quickly. I don't want to hear back talk.
And I said, that's obedience, right, Like, that's not respect.
And I feel like it's very difficult for people to
(29:29):
provide something that they didn't know they had the wrong
term for. Because one of the things I also get
when it comes to parenting in psychology is people really
mix up boundaries versus rules, And I'm like, well, you know,
someone can violate a rule and your boundary still stays firm.
So those are two different things. But also the aspect
of obedience versus respect, and when it comes to this
realm of parenting, there's way more language involved. A lot
(29:52):
of times people will comment on how much my son
talks or his vocab, and I said, that's because I'm
constantly answering his questions. I'm constant happened to explain to
him or even go like if he's like, oh, can
I go to the left or the right, and I'm like, oh,
I guess they both go in the direction that you
want to go.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Which way do you want to go? Right?
Speaker 2 (30:08):
Like, if you're consistently having these conversations with children, allowing
them to critically think, allowing them to ask you questions,
you're increasing their verbal acumen. You're leading to their ability
to be able to have a more dialogue, be able
to advocate for themselves. And it's difficult if you don't
even have the language for it. Because children who are
used to asking questions and being affirmed and being apologized
(30:32):
to and having conversations, they're more verbal because they're used
to having conversations. I'm like, yeah, he talk all the time, honey.
And you may think it's just because I'm a talker,
which is also true. But I also talk to my
child about everything, and he asks me questions and I
answer them. I always state that, like my poor husband, like,
I'm very much a big talker. My husband is from Nashville.
(30:53):
He's like I feel like, I always say, he's like
typical Southern man and you know bad, you know, he
uses the words when he doesn't want to when he
does what he does, but like he's surrounded by talkers
and he talks more now too, Like He's always talked.
Speaker 3 (31:07):
A lot to me.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
You know, we've been together for like fourteen years, but
like he talks more now all the time, Like he's
he wasn't weird in a home where he could ask
fifty thousand questions. It's also the fact that, like parents
were working, he has two other siblings. We have stuff
to do. I don't have time to answer your questions
about like when can I do this? When can I
do that?
Speaker 3 (31:25):
What? You know?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So that's how he was brought up, and we typically
parent the way that we were parented.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
It was a learning car for both of us.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
To be to be like, well he's asking I feel like,
you know, the no thing is is a line and
I'm like, I totally get that. Well, let's talk about that,
because I'm all for my child telling me no. Do
I like it every single second?
Speaker 3 (31:44):
No.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
My youngest child has figured out to say no thank you,
but she says it for everything. So it's like, okay,
go take your shower, no thank you, no thank you.
I'm like, girl, that is not our shough way, yo.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
You well that have boh okay.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
That's when I bring in a healthy and safe thing
because with my son, it's the tooth brushing, and I'm
just like honey, and he always wants to be so close,
and I'm like sir, oh, like my goodness, right, And
that's when I bring up the healthy and safe thing,
like listen, now, no, thank you, I get that, but
like you know, if you don't brush your teeth, all
(32:24):
those germs, you're gonna swallow those germs, you're gonna get sick.
And he loves school so much, and I said, and
then you're gona miss school because we don't send the
two kids to school, So you brush your teeth or
you're gonna have to stay home for school eventually because
you're gonna get sick. Right, Like my most supporn jobs
are to keep you healthy and safe. Luckily that works sometimes,
but I still have to repeat it like fifty thousand times,
like the level of patience I have to have, and
to be honest, I don't always have it. Like there
(32:45):
are times when I have to apologize and make that statement,
and the best apology is changed behaviors.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I have to apologize for it. I'm sorry I.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Raised my voice because it's time to go and we
were rushing. Next time, I'm just gonna get you up earlier,
so that I get used to the fact that you
like to ski twenty times between the living room and
the kitchen before taking one bite up the waffle, you know, like.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Because part of that is me.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
A lot of the solutions are stuff that I have
to do, Like I would love to sleep till seven,
but you take an hour to get ready, so now
we both up at six, Like does it suck? Yes,
but this is what we have to do because his
agenda is fun. He's not gonna rush quicker. And sometimes
I get it wrong, like raise my voice, apologize, talk
about how I'm gonna change it and work on it
next time, like that's that's it. But I'm not gonna
(33:26):
get it right every single time because it is frustrating
and I do have things to be on time for
and I can't keep dropping you off late. There's no
reason that the front desk woman should know me my
name and my favorite color, Like, there's no way she
should know that. I gotta check him in so often.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
What's up?
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Rock? Hell?
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Nothing much? What you doing today? What you got for lunch?
What you got for lunch today? What you don't mind you?
It's because my child is always late. It's just like
what I know hear.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
What I'm hearing in this is whether you have children
or not, this is a beautiful oportunity for us to
figure out what we did not get and to work
through those things that patience. I hear patients coming up
a lot, like how have we become impatient with ourselves?
(34:14):
How have we not explored our boundaries for personal touch
or conversations with other people? I'm hearing a lot of
the parents and work, and for sure, like the challenges
that you have with your children or with other people
is really about you, And I think that's what relationships
(34:36):
are about, right, Like it's teaching you, like this is
your area of growth. You know, the things that are
easy are the things that are easy. You know, it's
very easy for me to you know, listen to people.
It can be a little harder for me to be
patient with them for others. Patients comes a little more east.
So the challenges we have with people is revealing, you know,
(34:59):
those spaces if we want to be in relationship, you know,
where we may need to continue some of the work
and we have to ask those really hard questions of
what did I not get and what do I need?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yes, I always say that's the biggest thing in terms
of communication breakdowns when we're talking about conflict, like in
session or in class, when I'm talking about conflict with
others or family members or even self, and I challenge
individuals to ask to ask yourself and ask the person like, Okay,
you're having a disconnect, what did I get versus what
(35:34):
did I need? Like I got solutions and I needed
a listening year, right, and even just acknowledging the fact
that typically if what you got was what you needed,
you not really have a difficulty with the conflict. But
even just normalizing the fact that you have to teach
people how to treat you at times, not everyone's going
to know how to treat you, especially if you don't
know how to treat yourself. You mentioned such a good
(35:56):
point of like where are you not being patient with yourself?
And most of the time there are so many realms
where individuals are not being patient with themselves or shaming themselves.
And I always say, like with shame, and it's like
a coin. One side of shame, the other side is compassion. Right,
you have to acknowledge that. So it's hard to provide
children and provide others whether they're your children or children
(36:17):
in general, with things that you don't provide to yourself.
Like parenting is all about modeling I very much, you
know I don't. My children are not my world. I
always say, like, you know, I heard describe ones like
they're in my galaxy, like they're one of the planets,
you know, But you know I'm not. Sometimes were about
to go to the Sun, you're you know, Mars and
Pluto or whatever. But it's also the fact that, like
(36:37):
I want to model normal experiences. I consider it to
be one of the most important things that I do
because I'm contributing humans to this world. I want to
normalize certain experiences. I want you to get used to.
Conflict doesn't require degradation. It's not conflict that's the issue.
It's poor conflict resolution. We're going to disagree. Let's talk
about that. I need space. Let's talk about you providing.
(37:00):
We talk about consent and me providing compassion to myself
so I know that they deserve a well rested parent
who has activities outside of them. I don't want my
children to have an unhealthy barometer of well Everything was
sacrificed for me. Nobody ever said no to me because
it also it's a dangerous space where no one says
no to you, so you think it's od for someone
to say no to you.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Power dynamics.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
And one of the things that I think about differently
is when I thought I was going to have like
a whole million girls in the house, I thought about
power dynamics and rearing young girls. I still think about
power dynamics, but I think about it in terms of
the fact that I'm rearing young men and I need
them to be aware of consent and coercient and healthy
yeses and like unhealthy nos and power dynamics. I need
(37:43):
them to grasp this because there's so many people who don't,
and like, you know, our job is going to be
done eventually, Like I totally get like we can't put
everything on us, but for now.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
They're going to learn that from me.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
So even when shifting the aspect of having boys, I
was like it shifted in me like I was teaching
I was thinking of teaching girls about power dynamics from
a different realm. Now I'm like, we really have to
I need you to understand consent. I need you to
understand no means no. I need you to understand just
joking and saying, oh no, that's a no, Like I
really need them to grasp this, and I want them
to normalize that because I want my children to be
(38:17):
so normalized in the fact that we ask questions, that
there are no secrets, that we respect each other's know
that we have conversations that any person that doesn't do that,
any environment that doesn't respect them, there's already an alarm
going off because they're so used to being in a
healthy environment that they can pick out the unhealthy ones quicker.
And it's such an amazing I would say responsibility that
(38:40):
all individuals, adults, whether you have children or not, you
can have that amazing responsibility that we're g rearing a
new generation of children who they're so used to like
people make mistakes, that's not my identity, that they try
new things. They're so used to respect that when things
people are being disrespectful, it's a group aspect, the community
aspect to call someone in. We we rear them in
(39:01):
this thing that's so normal that unhealthy is like a
red flare.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
They're like, oh, whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa whoa not
r out here, partner, not right here? You know, like
that's not what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I feel like it's such an amazing job to have,
and another amazing even like responsibility with community, because it
doesn't just have to be your child. You can respect
just like you mentioned on the field trip, you can
respect you know, a niece and a nephew. It's just
if we can create a new generation of you know stuff.
A lot of people really get bogged down on. You know,
I was raised differently, and I always say, listen, as
(39:34):
a psychologist, do you know the results of how we
were raised?
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Because I do. I right, I wrote my dissertation, you know,
like it's not it's you know.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Here are the results of the nineties, here are the
results of the eighties.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
Let not go different?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
You know, well, who says this work? Well, I'm gonna
tell you what didn't work this? You know, why not
try something different, treat them as humans. If we can
foster this environment, it's just so normalized people make mistakes.
We try something different, we respect, no, we try something different.
Like there's so many children who adults who fear because
they just never got no normalized or they always thought
(40:17):
they had to be perfect, or they felt like they
couldn't take a rest and it comes out. You know,
if it didn't come out, I wouldn't I mean, I.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Would have a job. It would probably be doing something else.
But like.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Doctor Martin, where can the people find you?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
I am on.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
All of the interwebs as Raquel Martin, PhD. I have
a podcast, Mind Your Mental Podcast. We have two seasons out.
We will be having a third season next year. Hopefully
you will also be on.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
That season, which will be phenomenal.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
But I post pretty regularly just about like mental health content,
talking about how my children have, just how I work
for them and what they ask me to do that day,
and just trying to just normalize the aspect of you know,
it may feel tough, because it is tough, but it's you.
You always have an aspect of community and in safe
(41:08):
space where you're able to get education. And possibly a
chuckle because it's very difficult for me to stay serious
for even a ninety second video, like I can never
I try, like I'd be like and then I just
say something and inappropriate and I'm like, yeah, well what
was that?
Speaker 3 (41:22):
What was that? Twenty seconds? We try, like we really try, and.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
It's only inappropriate if it doesn't lay on well with
your audience.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
And it always does. It always is. It's not inappropriate,
it's appropriate. Yeah, it's appropriate. I'm just a goofa.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
I'm always gonna be like this, like if you're just
working honestly in trauma with child and family therapy. I
have had a child be fine one second, like throw
a chair the next and ask for Teddy Grahams one second.
And that's just ten minutes into the session. We got
forty more minutes to go, like you know, so it's
just like, well, here we are. You just gotta you
just gotta get used to it. That and just a
(41:59):
reminder or parenting will teach you more about yourself than
anything else. I think that's what a lot of people
go into parenting thinking like we don't learn so much
about my child, You're gonna learn more about you. And
it's amazing to have that evolution of thought and give
that in your relationship with your child or with children
in general.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Well, wonderful, Thank you so much for your time today,
doctor Martin.
Speaker 3 (42:19):
Thank you for having me. You're welcome.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
You need to hear. This is an iHeart production host
it by me Nedra Glover to wob Our executive producer
is Joel Baldique. Our senior producer and editor is Mia
don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with your questions
about boundaries and relationships at you need to hear this
at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to rate our
(42:48):
show wherever you listen to it, and share this episode
with someone who needs to hear this. Talk to you
next time
Speaker 2 (43:00):
You say the B
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