November 30, 2023 • 33 mins
Married for eight years, this week's caller experienced a whirlwind romance that led to a controlling and emotionally abusive relationship. A success in other areas in her life, this mother is seeking guidance on rebuilding self-esteem and reclaiming identity while navigating relationships with her husband and mother-in-law as she initiates her divorce.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm Nadrik lover to wab and
you need to hear this. When we start romantic relationships,
sometimes we are looking for a particular thing and a
particular person. Perhaps we are looking for something completely opposite
than what we experienced in our last relationship, or maybe
(00:24):
we're looking for fun, or maybe we are looking for
someone to rescue us. After being in a relationship with
someone for a few years, we may start to realize
that thing that I needed so much of in the
beginning is no longer what I need. And now I'm
in this relationship with this person who met me one
(00:45):
way and I've completely changed or my needs have changed.
How do I show up in a different way? How
do you show up when the person you meet is
very different from who they presented as. So today we
will be talking about one reclaiming your identity and reclaiming
(01:06):
yourself a statement a relationship. But I'll tell you right off,
relationships would be much healthier if we did some work
around not only what we want, but why and exploring
is that something we need to offer ourselves or something
that we need to expect from our partners. Let's get
(01:29):
started with today's letter.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hi Nindra, thank you so much for all of your
impactful work. Your responses to others issues have been a
huge help to me, and I hope that others can
resonate with my situation and get help as well. Where
do I begin. My husband and I have been married
for eight years and we have a three year old son.
I met amount of time in my life when I
(01:53):
need a direction and I wasn't sure if the choices
I was making in my career and personal life or
leading to the life that I want, which was to
be a successful working mother with a supportive husband, and
we would grow with each other as we faced life's adventures.
We had a whirl when romance moved in together after
(02:13):
five months, were engaged at eight months, moved to another
state together four months later, and got married a year
after that. We moved so fast that I didn't recognize
certain aspects of my husband until it felt too late
to get out of the relationship.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
He grew up.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Watching his father emotionally and physically abuse his mom, and
my husband displays many of the behaviors typical of someone
who was emotionally abusive. He likes to control my behavior choices, speech, appearance,
parenting style, and my relationship with others. He's also extremely
critical of everything I do, and he constantly nags and
(02:51):
complains about things that I do, from the food I
cook to how I clean our home to what I
decide to do. When I finally have a moment to myself,
it makes me feel so small and I don't feel
loved or respected in this marriage. I don't feel comfortable
to be myself. I walk on eggshells all day and
I feel like I don't have an identity of my
own anymore since my mind is preoccupied with thoughts of
(03:12):
how to appease him. I never saw myself as someone
that was weak until I met him, and it seems
like I'm always failing to meet his unrealistic expectations. I've
been successful in my career and used to have fruitful
and strong relationships, and now I feel like I've lost
myself as well as been isolated for my friends and family.
After adjusting to life as a mom and surviving in
(03:32):
this emotionally abusive marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
There is a lot to process here. The first thing
that is coming to mind is when did you start
to notice these shifts where you are willing participant. Sometimes
we look at others and we say, oh my gosh,
they made me lose myself When there is some responsibility
(04:00):
and giving ourselves away, and it doesn't happen immediately, it
sort of happens over time. We can get so excited
about people loving us and caring for us that we
just give them everything. Well what do you think about
this thing? Should I wear this? What do you think
about that? And over time it becomes the voice that
they use with us. They are now the criticizer. They
(04:23):
are now this person who who knows how much we
value what they have to say and what they think.
One of the things I've seen work really really well
with this is gaining some courage and strength through therapy.
You need a person where you can be absolutely honest
(04:44):
with about what's happening, so that you're constantly reminded what's
happening is not normal, what's being said is uncomfortable, and
here are some ways that you can start to manage it.
When you don't have those relationships with family and friends,
it's very important that you build those relationships somewhere. Maybe
(05:07):
it's therapy, you know, maybe it's a support group, but
it needs to be some level of support so you're
not isolated in this, because as long as you're isolated,
you will not be able to work through some of
this stuff, because, let's face it, he is your only
support right now. You have to find some other people
(05:27):
who can help build your self esteem, who can help
you reidentify some of those things that you've lost over
time because you're walking on eggshells and trying to figure
out what's happening here. One of my favorite movies is
The Color Purple, and in this movie, the main character, Seeley,
(05:52):
She is sent to live with this man who is
emotionally abusive and physically abusive. She loses her self esteem,
she completely loses her identity, and it's not until she
discovers I'm telling the whole movie, Oh my gosh, spoiler alert.
I forgot to say that, it's not until she discovers
(06:12):
the secret that he's been keeping. I won't say what
the secret is. There, I've saved something that she's able
to start unwrapping some of the damage that has been done,
and she slowly gains courage and her voice and she
starts to use it, and it's, oh my gosh, it's
so offensive. To him, there are times when because of
(06:35):
a relationship, we slowly start to lose parts of ourselves,
and there is an event, there is a person, there
is a relationship that we can have like such as
that with a therapist or with a friend that can
really pull us out to show us this is who
you are, don't you remember? Let's keep listening to hear
(06:58):
more about this story.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Additionally, we decided to move to a new city, San Diego,
a year and a half ago, to care for a
sick mother and get support from his family to help
with our son. But the move was an absolute nightmare.
My husband decided to leave his job and start his
own company once he moved, but his business is not
profitable yet and this has been a huge blow to
his ego, causing him to be more depressed and take
(07:26):
out his frustrations on others close to him. We live
with my mother in law, and her behavior in the
general home environment has been toxic since we moved here.
She and my husband argued constantly for our first year
here about so many things, bills, the past, their ideas
of how our son should be raised, how the house
should be managed. I got dragged into many of the
(07:46):
arguments and was often placed in the middle as a
mediator or for them to use me as someone to
co sign on their viewpoint. Things have been more civil
among all of us now, but my relationship with her
is now ruined, and our relationship with my son is
now strained as well. She's worried she will upset my
husband by getting close to her grandson.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I'm hearing that he is not only abusive in the
relationship with you. There's this dynamic playing out with him
and his mom as well, and it sounds like there
could be some allyship there, and I hear the fear
on your part, But that may be the person in
this with you, or at least having the conversation to
(08:28):
open the floor and say, what do you think about
what he said? When? What do you think about this
thing that he did last week? You know, having that conversation,
you may be able to understand her position and be
able to even get some courage and inspiration from that,
like oh my gosh, like this could be you. You know,
(08:50):
this could be a cycle repeating. You now have a
son who's watching this dynamic and it seems like his
mother is being treated by him how she was treated
by his father, So I would talk more about this
a bit openly, just to see where her head is
and if she's aware of what's happening. If she's aware
(09:13):
of what's even happening with you, let's keep listening.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
As you can imagine, it's been exhausting managing the issues
in my marriage, plus the contentious environment in the home
with my mother in law, plus raising a toddler in
a new city without my friends and family, plus serving
as the breadwinner and taking on the pressure of managing
everything in the household while my husband builds his business.
A month ago, I got the courage to tell my
husband I went out of the relationship. I went out
(09:39):
of the marriage, and I need to move back to
my hometown as soon as logistically possible. I let him
know that I don't feel loved or appreciated and this
isn't how I want to live my life anymore. I
just have had enough of the stress and anxiety, and
I don't want my son to be influenced by the
toxicity anymore, or for him to see me as someone
who is weak and letting others. My husband, my mother
in law disrespects me. I don't want him to think
(10:03):
this behavior is okay. I want to be just as
strong in my home life as I am in my
professional life, which I absolutely thrive in and have received
multiple promotions in the last two years, despite the craziness
going on in my personal life.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I hear that you have some healthy self esteem, and
that healthy self esteem seems to play out in the
work environment. You know, we can be different parts of
ourselves depending on the atmosphere of the environment we're in.
So it's already in you to do the standing up,
to be assertive, to do a wonderful job as a human.
(10:40):
You already do it at work, and I'm sure you
do it as a mother. It's very interesting because of
the environment with him, you're not able to tap into
what's already manifested in you. It's already there. You're not
doing anything different, you're learning any new skills. You already
have the tools. What I'm hearing with you saying, hey,
(11:04):
this marriage is not working. I don't feel love or
appreciate it. It reminds me of the atmosphere we're in
with women initiating more divorces in this season. You know,
I'm hearing a lack of appreciation and over time, that
resentment does turn into stress and anger and anxiety. Because
(11:26):
you want to be noticed for the good that you do.
We want to hear good job, Oh thank you so
much for cooking. Oh thank you so much. You do
such a wonderful job with our son. You take care
of the home so well. And I know that sounds
like what who would say that you know a person
who appreciates you. A thank you can happen at any time,
(11:51):
and it can be for anything. It can be for
you picking something up off the floor. So it is
so important to very many of us that we are
seeing in the way of being thanked. That is how
you appreciate us. It's not you know, oh my gosh,
you have to write a card and send balloons and
all this stuff. Sometimes I think you can go a
long way. I love a thank you, and I love
(12:13):
to send a thank you card. I love to tell
people thank you. That is such a powerful phrase. And
what I'm hearing is you're not being thank You're not
being appreciated. No one is seeing, you know, your hard
work in all of these environments, and instead you're getting
(12:34):
this passive aggressive response of you could be doing more
or this is what I think about this, ah dinner,
This is what you may that is very hurtful, and yes,
it is very harmful. Again, you know, I think you
need some support around this. When people end up in
unhealthy relationships, it can be quite embarrassing to share with
(12:58):
other people, to let people know what you've been going through.
But what I will say is, once we speak about
the things we're going through, you will be shocked and
utterly surprised by other people who've been dealing with the
same stuff, who may have some words of encouragement for you,
(13:22):
who may have some resources for you that can be
very supportive for you in this season. So keeping quiet
is actually keeping that support away. Keeping quiet is more
harmful than you sang to someone who you know, maybe
you haven't spoke to them in a while, and you
can open up and say, hey, you know, I know
(13:44):
it's been a few months, I haven't called. There's been
a lot on my mind and I just want to
tell you I am very drained by my marriage. This
is what I'm going through. Let people know. Maybe not everybody.
You know, it's your business. You don't have to tell everyone,
but it can be really helpful to tell some people
who have the capacity to listen and to be there
(14:07):
for you about what's happening with you, because when you're
operating an isolation, I'm sure you're living in this sort
of questioned city, like was that weird? Do he mean that?
What did he mean by this? What is that? You know,
like all of these questions when in actuality, if you
talk to someone about this and just say, hey, this
(14:28):
is what was said, someone could say, oh my gosh,
that's that's mean, that's not normal. I can't believe he
said that. Like, you know, you can get some feedback
from someone from a friend, from a family member, and
heck yeah, from a therapist. You need some support around
this issue, and the support is not going to be
offered with your son. You know he is. He is
(14:51):
charming and sweet, I'm sure, but he needs to have
the opportunity to be in healthy relationships himself. So think
of you getting some help as showing him a path
for receiving some help as well, some support around managing
his emotions, because he is now an environment where he's
(15:14):
not seeing people do well, is particularly d with managing
his reaction to things, So it can be very helpful
in many ways for you to work on some of
this stuff. I know you have a ton of questions
about what you're going through, and after this break we
will get back to those questions. You know, as we
(15:40):
were on break, I thought about this listical I created
a few years ago, and it is ten signs of
emotional abuse. Let's go through the ten. Number one, the
silent treatment. That is when someone refuses to speak to
you when you are direct speaking to them. We may
(16:03):
say something to them and they're like, you're not even here,
You're invisible, right, So the silent treatment. Number two blaming
others for your feelings. It is your thought. I am angry.
I am mad because you made me mad because you
didn't clean out the dishwasher. Number three. Manipulating to get
(16:24):
what you want, you know, trying to intentionally change someone's
feelings because you want something. Number four Intentionally shaming someone,
trying to make them feel bad. Oh, if you don't
help me, then blank, right, So I'm going to make
you feel bad enough that you will help me. You
will do this thing that I need you to do.
(16:46):
Five Ridiculing someone for expressing emotions. Oh, look at you,
you're crying. What are you crying about? You're always crying
about stuff. Oh you're sad? You know. I think it
sounds as I'm saying this, it sounds very childlike. But
in adult relationships we do this, you know, we ridicule
people for having an expression of emotion. Why are you crying?
(17:10):
Why are you upset? What are you sad about? And
they know exactly what it is because they just did something,
you know, explosive to make you feel that way. Number
six Ignoring a person when they express their feelings or thoughts,
not even listening to you, right like, I heard you
say that, but I also did not hear you say that.
(17:33):
Number seven. Not responding to be is for comfort when
you are upset and a person caused it, and you're like, oh,
can you hold my hand? Can we talk through this?
Can you? You know, all of these things in a
person's like no, you sit there and suffer. You know,
it's almost like a taunting that some people can do sometimes.
Number eight telling someone how they should or should not feel.
(17:56):
You don't have anything to be upset about. You don't
need to cry about that. Why are you angry? You're
the one who said this to me. Nine gaslighting, which
kind of encompasses all of the above, trying to make
you feel as if what happened did not happen. You know,
gaslighting is one of the biggest signs and probably most
(18:17):
prominent signs of emotional abuse that we see, making someone
question their sanity, making someone question what they feel or
what they saw happen. And number ten ignoring attempts to
communicate when you're trying to work through something and the
person isn't clear like, hey, I'll talk to you about
it later. They're just like, I'm not talking about it.
(18:38):
I'm not talking about it, with no indication that they
will follow up on it. You know, if it happens
often enough, it can be a bit abusive. You know,
any one of these things, occasionally, I would not say
is abuse. It's human nature to maybe manipulate sometimes sometimes
we do get caught up and you know, not responding
(19:00):
to someone's bids for comfort. But if this is the
way that a person responds ninety nine point nine percent
of the time, then there may be some things happening
that are not one offs. It is not just you know,
a poor decision on this particular day. It's a pattern
of behaviors. You give me the silent treatment. Often I
(19:23):
can tell you five times in the last week, you
stop talking to me. I've seen this play out where
couples will say, yeah, we haven't talked to each other
in two weeks. What do they mean by that? It's
been like you have our son, Okay, bye, that's the
conversation for two weeks. It's only based on that one
thing where I'm not asking you for anything, I'm not
telling you when dinner's ready, I just will not talk
(19:43):
to you. So some of these things it becomes a
part of the relationship dynamic, not just with you know,
the one person being emotionally withdrawn or abusive, but you
can start to mimic some of this stuff too in
response to other people in our relationship. We have to
look at both parties right. Sometimes we're like, oh my gosh,
(20:05):
this person is always doing this thing to me, and
I wonder, even in our desire to protect ourselves, what
are we doing. You know, sometimes we're doing nothing and
sometimes we are doing something. So be aware of what
you might be bringing to the situation as well. Are
you the person who blames that person for having feelings
(20:27):
when you've created some dynamic. This isn't necessarily for the
letter writer, this is for all of us because we
need to be aware of ourselves in relationships. Am I
gaslighting this person because I just told them that that
didn't happen a way that they thought it did. Maybe
I am? Wow. There is power and self correction. So
(20:48):
if you notice yourself doing any of these things in
a partnership and a friendship and a family ship and
a coworkership, please correct yourself. We're not looking for here,
but we are looking for practice. So just do a
little bit better next time, or go back and say,
oh my gosh, the other day, you know, you were
trying to tell me something and I completely shut you down.
(21:10):
My apologies. Do you want to talk to me about
it now? So there are ways to get out of
these behaviors. Is you notice that you're the perpetrator? Because
to some extent, maybe we all do this, but not
all the time. It's problematic when we are the person
who's constantly in this set of behaviors. Let's get back
(21:32):
to those questions from the letter writer. So my main
questions are, first, how can I start to rebuild my
self esteem after nearly a decade of being put down
by my partner? I know there's so much to learn
from my mistakes, and I'm already feeling stronger than I
have in a really long time. But how can I
keep this momentum up while navigating the separation and pending
(21:54):
the force. I started reading self help books when I
was in high school, and my introduction to self help
was Ayala van zand I was really drawn to her
personality and I liked her books. One of the books
I read that I often recommend to clients is In
(22:15):
the Meantime. Now, imagine me a sixteen seventeen year old
girl reading In the Meantime, which is about you know
what to do when you're in this rocky place in
your relationship or when you're between, you know, dating relationships.
I'm reading this book. A lot of the scenarios at
the time did not apply to me, but I thought
(22:36):
it would be good preparation for my place in the world,
because we all end up in relationships at some point,
so I just wanted to know what might be headed
my way. So I'm going to recommend that book because
I'm hearing some of those scenarios that I read in
that book, which I have read again as a full
(22:56):
fledged adult, playing out in your relationship, and it can
be very helpful for us to identify with the stories
of others, to have some sort of guide to help
us along the way. So the book that I would
recommend for self esteem rebuilding after a difficult relationship is
(23:18):
In the Meantime. Another book that is coming to mind
is Whole Again, Whole Again. In that book, it talks
about how to repair yourself after all of the emotional abuse,
how to recover from toxic relationships. There's a lot of
newer tips about things to do. So I would say
(23:40):
those two books would be very helpful.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I know.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
For in the meantime, there's a journal to accompany the
book that could be really helpful. So if you buy
the book or if you buy the journal, it could
be helpful for processing some of those things. I'm a
fan of a journal, and I will tell you why
I love a guided journal based on whatever issue you're
experiencing in life, because it will give you all of
(24:04):
the questions to do the work. So if you are
working through a challenge with having a partner who has
a substance abuse issue, there is a workbook for that.
There's a workbook for that. And guess what you know.
It'll go through all these areas of the relationship that
maybe you didn't even think about. And I think it's
a great way to prepare to go to therapy or
(24:24):
even to show up in the therapy space. I always
recommend a good old work book to my clients. If
we don't do the pages together, sometimes I'll pull it
out and I'll say, Okay, here's a page, or let's
talk about this. It's not even you have to feel
this in and do this activity. Let's just talk about this.
Let's look at these workbook questions because I may not
(24:44):
even know what to ask, but someone does. There's a
workbook for that. Let's move on to the next question.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
How do I reclaim my identity when so much of
my intention has been drawn elsewhere. I don't even know
where to start when it comes to caring for myself,
figuring out who I really am now since so much
has changed since becoming a mom.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I feel like this episode is about to be a
whole episode about book recommendations, because the thing that I
am hearing the most is there's a lot of work
to be done around personality recovery, identity, lifestyle transition, and
that reminds me that there's not one thing you need
(25:28):
to do. There are many things that need to be done.
You know, you can rest and pause. But a book
is coming to mind. I'm thinking of a book called
mom Brain. I'm thinking of another book that could be
really good for this, called self nurture. You're going through
so many things at once. When you become a mom,
(25:49):
many of us take on the new identity as mom.
You know, I'm no longer Nadra, I'm this kid's mom,
and you are still yourself. You are still in there
steal a person with needs, even though this little human
has a ton of needs, even though your husband has
a ton of needs, even though his mom, even though
(26:09):
the household you have all the same needs that you've
always had and you're just adding more to it. So
there is this harmony that we have to create to
make sure we are taking care of ourselves really, really well.
And one way that I think we can do that
better is to learn how we have to learn how
(26:30):
we have to become educated about taking care of ourselves
in this role of being a mother, of being a father,
of you know, even being a friend. We have to
learn how to be friends. Sometimes we have to learn
how to be in healthy relationships, because you can see
what happens when we don't learn anything. We just repeat
(26:51):
what we've seen, We repeat what we know others have done,
and it's not always best and most of the time
it's a disaster. And in this situation you describe, your
husband has seen this stuff and now he's just repeating it.
It would have been so helpful to learn something different
that comes from maybe not our environments, it can come
(27:14):
from educating ourselves about how to show up as a
healthy being in our relationships with others. Let's keep listening.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I'm doing so much reflecting the help of my therapist
on things I should have healed before starting my relationship
with my husband, and developing plans to do even more
healing and growing so that I can be my best self.
Feelings of guilt and regret often creep up while doing
this work, not to mention that I feel like I'm
doing this own loan. Since I've been isolated for my
friends and family and to the controlling marriage. What can
(27:49):
I do to move past those negative thoughts and strengthen
compassion for myself and the situation I put myself in.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I'm so happy to hear your going to a therapist.
Take all of these book recommendations, these workbook recommendations, take
them back to your therapist and see what they feel about.
You know, some of these things. It can be really
helpful for us to figure out, you know, how we
got ourselves to this point. But what is the most
pressing thing right now? Whatever is happening right now? It's
(28:20):
not oh my gosh, five years ago I was in
this space. It's like, girl, he yelled at me yesterday,
right like, that's what we need to work through. It's
wonderful to know how you got here and all those things.
But I would say there are some solution focused approaches
that could be really helpful here. What do you do
next time when he says this thing? What do you
(28:42):
do when he tries to demean you? How do you
respond to him being upset when you say no? Those
are the things that could be helpful right now? Why
you got here? You spoke about it. It was a whirlwind.
He was very nice, and let's face it, people and
they were jerks. On a first date, you would not
be here. I'm sure. He was charming, wonderful, His cologne
(29:05):
smelled good, his fingernails was clipped, he was funny, all
of the things you would not be with a monster
who bopped you over the head on the first date.
It doesn't happen that way. There is a process to it, right,
So how did you get here? And oh my gosh,
I'm a terrible person. You're a person who believed in
other human beings, you were hopeful, you thought love was love.
(29:26):
You listen to your mother's, your friends, like you've watched
some movies like this is what we expect, and hopefully
that happens. Hopefully that happens. Every once in a while.
It does not. And I'm saying every once in a
while loosely, but that's what I want to believe. But
sometimes it does not happen that way. It doesn't mean,
oh my gosh, I was picking the wrong things unless
(29:46):
they were right with the right person. A lot of
these things we do in the beginning, you know, It's like,
with the right person, this wouldn't be an issue five
years later. So some of this stuff you may pick
apart about yourself. Oh I should have did this. It
was this thing, it was that thing. It's like, this
may have been a situation of the person and not
(30:09):
the behavior. Let's keep listening.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Realistically, can the relationships with my mother in law and
my husband be salvaged. I don't want to be connected
to him romantically anymore, but we will need to have
a good working relationship moving forward so that we can
raise our son from our respective households dual custody. Since
I told him my decision to leave, he has not
been critical, has not controlled me, and we've been able
(30:35):
to be cordial and handle logistics of parenting together. He
recognized his part and my decision, but I don't think
he's going to change how he is, which is why
I am moving on. I just don't know how long
this peace will last. I'm terrified that I'll start trying
to micromanage how I raise my son when he's with me.
I'm leaving because I don't have the freedom to be myself.
I just want to make sure I have the tools
(30:57):
to maintain that freedom. Details are important to note. We
attended couples therapy prior to our moved to San Diego
and I found it helpful, but my husband did not,
and he decided that we would manage things on our own.
We each have our own therapists who have been helping
us grow separately since moving to San Diego, and we're
(31:18):
still currently in the same household, but I will be
moving out in a month. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Years ago, I read this book called The Choice by
doctor Edith Ecker, and she spoke about being married for
thirty plus years and divorcing her husband because she built
so much resentment. She was upset at her mental load
in the relationship, she was doing the primary parenting, just
(31:47):
all of these things. She got so upset. They went
their separate ways, they started dating other people, and she
started to realize, oh my gosh, it was me. It
was me, me stopping me from being able to show
up in that relationship. I was looking for him to
grant me permission to do these things that I could
(32:10):
have been doing. So sometimes taking some space away from
a situation, we can see maybe this person isn't really
hold to be back now. They are providing some discomfort
in the environment, but I can still be myself. It
may not be comfortable for them, they may not like
some things, but that doesn't mean that I can't do
those things. So, whether you are in a marriage with him,
(32:33):
you are in a co parenting relationship, you will have
to show up as yourself, so some of your work
will be figuring out how to be yourself with a
difficult person. He may be unwilling to make that easier
for you, but it's what you have to do. You
need to hear this. Some people will not create an
(32:58):
environment for us to be ourselves, and we still need
to be ourselves. You need to hear this. Is an
iHeart production hosted by me Nedra Glover to wob Our
executive producer is Joel Barnique. Our senior producer and editor
is Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with
(33:21):
your questions about boundaries and relationships at You need to
Hear this at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to
rate our show wherever you listen to it, and share
this episode with someone who needs to hear this. Talk
to you next time.
Hi, listeners, welcome back. I'm Nadrik lover to wab and
you need to hear this. When we start romantic relationships,
sometimes we are looking for a particular thing and a
particular person. Perhaps we are looking for something completely opposite
than what we experienced in our last relationship, or maybe
(00:24):
we're looking for fun, or maybe we are looking for
someone to rescue us. After being in a relationship with
someone for a few years, we may start to realize
that thing that I needed so much of in the
beginning is no longer what I need. And now I'm
in this relationship with this person who met me one
(00:45):
way and I've completely changed or my needs have changed.
How do I show up in a different way? How
do you show up when the person you meet is
very different from who they presented as. So today we
will be talking about one reclaiming your identity and reclaiming
(01:06):
yourself a statement a relationship. But I'll tell you right off,
relationships would be much healthier if we did some work
around not only what we want, but why and exploring
is that something we need to offer ourselves or something
that we need to expect from our partners. Let's get
(01:29):
started with today's letter.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Hi Nindra, thank you so much for all of your
impactful work. Your responses to others issues have been a
huge help to me, and I hope that others can
resonate with my situation and get help as well. Where
do I begin. My husband and I have been married
for eight years and we have a three year old son.
I met amount of time in my life when I
(01:53):
need a direction and I wasn't sure if the choices
I was making in my career and personal life or
leading to the life that I want, which was to
be a successful working mother with a supportive husband, and
we would grow with each other as we faced life's adventures.
We had a whirl when romance moved in together after
(02:13):
five months, were engaged at eight months, moved to another
state together four months later, and got married a year
after that. We moved so fast that I didn't recognize
certain aspects of my husband until it felt too late
to get out of the relationship.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
He grew up.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Watching his father emotionally and physically abuse his mom, and
my husband displays many of the behaviors typical of someone
who was emotionally abusive. He likes to control my behavior choices, speech, appearance,
parenting style, and my relationship with others. He's also extremely
critical of everything I do, and he constantly nags and
(02:51):
complains about things that I do, from the food I
cook to how I clean our home to what I
decide to do. When I finally have a moment to myself,
it makes me feel so small and I don't feel
loved or respected in this marriage. I don't feel comfortable
to be myself. I walk on eggshells all day and
I feel like I don't have an identity of my
own anymore since my mind is preoccupied with thoughts of
(03:12):
how to appease him. I never saw myself as someone
that was weak until I met him, and it seems
like I'm always failing to meet his unrealistic expectations. I've
been successful in my career and used to have fruitful
and strong relationships, and now I feel like I've lost
myself as well as been isolated for my friends and family.
After adjusting to life as a mom and surviving in
(03:32):
this emotionally abusive marriage.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
There is a lot to process here. The first thing
that is coming to mind is when did you start
to notice these shifts where you are willing participant. Sometimes
we look at others and we say, oh my gosh,
they made me lose myself When there is some responsibility
(04:00):
and giving ourselves away, and it doesn't happen immediately, it
sort of happens over time. We can get so excited
about people loving us and caring for us that we
just give them everything. Well what do you think about
this thing? Should I wear this? What do you think
about that? And over time it becomes the voice that
they use with us. They are now the criticizer. They
(04:23):
are now this person who who knows how much we
value what they have to say and what they think.
One of the things I've seen work really really well
with this is gaining some courage and strength through therapy.
You need a person where you can be absolutely honest
(04:44):
with about what's happening, so that you're constantly reminded what's
happening is not normal, what's being said is uncomfortable, and
here are some ways that you can start to manage it.
When you don't have those relationships with family and friends,
it's very important that you build those relationships somewhere. Maybe
(05:07):
it's therapy, you know, maybe it's a support group, but
it needs to be some level of support so you're
not isolated in this, because as long as you're isolated,
you will not be able to work through some of
this stuff, because, let's face it, he is your only
support right now. You have to find some other people
(05:27):
who can help build your self esteem, who can help
you reidentify some of those things that you've lost over
time because you're walking on eggshells and trying to figure
out what's happening here. One of my favorite movies is
The Color Purple, and in this movie, the main character, Seeley,
(05:52):
She is sent to live with this man who is
emotionally abusive and physically abusive. She loses her self esteem,
she completely loses her identity, and it's not until she
discovers I'm telling the whole movie, Oh my gosh, spoiler alert.
I forgot to say that, it's not until she discovers
(06:12):
the secret that he's been keeping. I won't say what
the secret is. There, I've saved something that she's able
to start unwrapping some of the damage that has been done,
and she slowly gains courage and her voice and she
starts to use it, and it's, oh my gosh, it's
so offensive. To him, there are times when because of
(06:35):
a relationship, we slowly start to lose parts of ourselves,
and there is an event, there is a person, there
is a relationship that we can have like such as
that with a therapist or with a friend that can
really pull us out to show us this is who
you are, don't you remember? Let's keep listening to hear
(06:58):
more about this story.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Additionally, we decided to move to a new city, San Diego,
a year and a half ago, to care for a
sick mother and get support from his family to help
with our son. But the move was an absolute nightmare.
My husband decided to leave his job and start his
own company once he moved, but his business is not
profitable yet and this has been a huge blow to
his ego, causing him to be more depressed and take
(07:26):
out his frustrations on others close to him. We live
with my mother in law, and her behavior in the
general home environment has been toxic since we moved here.
She and my husband argued constantly for our first year
here about so many things, bills, the past, their ideas
of how our son should be raised, how the house
should be managed. I got dragged into many of the
(07:46):
arguments and was often placed in the middle as a
mediator or for them to use me as someone to
co sign on their viewpoint. Things have been more civil
among all of us now, but my relationship with her
is now ruined, and our relationship with my son is
now strained as well. She's worried she will upset my
husband by getting close to her grandson.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
I'm hearing that he is not only abusive in the
relationship with you. There's this dynamic playing out with him
and his mom as well, and it sounds like there
could be some allyship there, and I hear the fear
on your part, But that may be the person in
this with you, or at least having the conversation to
(08:28):
open the floor and say, what do you think about
what he said? When? What do you think about this
thing that he did last week? You know, having that conversation,
you may be able to understand her position and be
able to even get some courage and inspiration from that,
like oh my gosh, like this could be you. You know,
(08:50):
this could be a cycle repeating. You now have a
son who's watching this dynamic and it seems like his
mother is being treated by him how she was treated
by his father, So I would talk more about this
a bit openly, just to see where her head is
and if she's aware of what's happening. If she's aware
(09:13):
of what's even happening with you, let's keep listening.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
As you can imagine, it's been exhausting managing the issues
in my marriage, plus the contentious environment in the home
with my mother in law, plus raising a toddler in
a new city without my friends and family, plus serving
as the breadwinner and taking on the pressure of managing
everything in the household while my husband builds his business.
A month ago, I got the courage to tell my
husband I went out of the relationship. I went out
(09:39):
of the marriage, and I need to move back to
my hometown as soon as logistically possible. I let him
know that I don't feel loved or appreciated and this
isn't how I want to live my life anymore. I
just have had enough of the stress and anxiety, and
I don't want my son to be influenced by the
toxicity anymore, or for him to see me as someone
who is weak and letting others. My husband, my mother
in law disrespects me. I don't want him to think
(10:03):
this behavior is okay. I want to be just as
strong in my home life as I am in my
professional life, which I absolutely thrive in and have received
multiple promotions in the last two years, despite the craziness
going on in my personal life.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I hear that you have some healthy self esteem, and
that healthy self esteem seems to play out in the
work environment. You know, we can be different parts of
ourselves depending on the atmosphere of the environment we're in.
So it's already in you to do the standing up,
to be assertive, to do a wonderful job as a human.
(10:40):
You already do it at work, and I'm sure you
do it as a mother. It's very interesting because of
the environment with him, you're not able to tap into
what's already manifested in you. It's already there. You're not
doing anything different, you're learning any new skills. You already
have the tools. What I'm hearing with you saying, hey,
(11:04):
this marriage is not working. I don't feel love or
appreciate it. It reminds me of the atmosphere we're in
with women initiating more divorces in this season. You know,
I'm hearing a lack of appreciation and over time, that
resentment does turn into stress and anger and anxiety. Because
(11:26):
you want to be noticed for the good that you do.
We want to hear good job, Oh thank you so
much for cooking. Oh thank you so much. You do
such a wonderful job with our son. You take care
of the home so well. And I know that sounds
like what who would say that you know a person
who appreciates you. A thank you can happen at any time,
(11:51):
and it can be for anything. It can be for
you picking something up off the floor. So it is
so important to very many of us that we are
seeing in the way of being thanked. That is how
you appreciate us. It's not you know, oh my gosh,
you have to write a card and send balloons and
all this stuff. Sometimes I think you can go a
long way. I love a thank you, and I love
(12:13):
to send a thank you card. I love to tell
people thank you. That is such a powerful phrase. And
what I'm hearing is you're not being thank You're not
being appreciated. No one is seeing, you know, your hard
work in all of these environments, and instead you're getting
(12:34):
this passive aggressive response of you could be doing more
or this is what I think about this, ah dinner,
This is what you may that is very hurtful, and yes,
it is very harmful. Again, you know, I think you
need some support around this. When people end up in
unhealthy relationships, it can be quite embarrassing to share with
(12:58):
other people, to let people know what you've been going through.
But what I will say is, once we speak about
the things we're going through, you will be shocked and
utterly surprised by other people who've been dealing with the
same stuff, who may have some words of encouragement for you,
(13:22):
who may have some resources for you that can be
very supportive for you in this season. So keeping quiet
is actually keeping that support away. Keeping quiet is more
harmful than you sang to someone who you know, maybe
you haven't spoke to them in a while, and you
can open up and say, hey, you know, I know
(13:44):
it's been a few months, I haven't called. There's been
a lot on my mind and I just want to
tell you I am very drained by my marriage. This
is what I'm going through. Let people know. Maybe not everybody.
You know, it's your business. You don't have to tell everyone,
but it can be really helpful to tell some people
who have the capacity to listen and to be there
(14:07):
for you about what's happening with you, because when you're
operating an isolation, I'm sure you're living in this sort
of questioned city, like was that weird? Do he mean that?
What did he mean by this? What is that? You know,
like all of these questions when in actuality, if you
talk to someone about this and just say, hey, this
(14:28):
is what was said, someone could say, oh my gosh,
that's that's mean, that's not normal. I can't believe he
said that. Like, you know, you can get some feedback
from someone from a friend, from a family member, and
heck yeah, from a therapist. You need some support around
this issue, and the support is not going to be
offered with your son. You know he is. He is
(14:51):
charming and sweet, I'm sure, but he needs to have
the opportunity to be in healthy relationships himself. So think
of you getting some help as showing him a path
for receiving some help as well, some support around managing
his emotions, because he is now an environment where he's
(15:14):
not seeing people do well, is particularly d with managing
his reaction to things, So it can be very helpful
in many ways for you to work on some of
this stuff. I know you have a ton of questions
about what you're going through, and after this break we
will get back to those questions. You know, as we
(15:40):
were on break, I thought about this listical I created
a few years ago, and it is ten signs of
emotional abuse. Let's go through the ten. Number one, the
silent treatment. That is when someone refuses to speak to
you when you are direct speaking to them. We may
(16:03):
say something to them and they're like, you're not even here,
You're invisible, right, So the silent treatment. Number two blaming
others for your feelings. It is your thought. I am angry.
I am mad because you made me mad because you
didn't clean out the dishwasher. Number three. Manipulating to get
(16:24):
what you want, you know, trying to intentionally change someone's
feelings because you want something. Number four Intentionally shaming someone,
trying to make them feel bad. Oh, if you don't
help me, then blank, right, So I'm going to make
you feel bad enough that you will help me. You
will do this thing that I need you to do.
(16:46):
Five Ridiculing someone for expressing emotions. Oh, look at you,
you're crying. What are you crying about? You're always crying
about stuff. Oh you're sad? You know. I think it
sounds as I'm saying this, it sounds very childlike. But
in adult relationships we do this, you know, we ridicule
people for having an expression of emotion. Why are you crying?
(17:10):
Why are you upset? What are you sad about? And
they know exactly what it is because they just did something,
you know, explosive to make you feel that way. Number
six Ignoring a person when they express their feelings or thoughts,
not even listening to you, right like, I heard you
say that, but I also did not hear you say that.
(17:33):
Number seven. Not responding to be is for comfort when
you are upset and a person caused it, and you're like, oh,
can you hold my hand? Can we talk through this?
Can you? You know, all of these things in a
person's like no, you sit there and suffer. You know,
it's almost like a taunting that some people can do sometimes.
Number eight telling someone how they should or should not feel.
(17:56):
You don't have anything to be upset about. You don't
need to cry about that. Why are you angry? You're
the one who said this to me. Nine gaslighting, which
kind of encompasses all of the above, trying to make
you feel as if what happened did not happen. You know,
gaslighting is one of the biggest signs and probably most
(18:17):
prominent signs of emotional abuse that we see, making someone
question their sanity, making someone question what they feel or
what they saw happen. And number ten ignoring attempts to
communicate when you're trying to work through something and the
person isn't clear like, hey, I'll talk to you about
it later. They're just like, I'm not talking about it.
(18:38):
I'm not talking about it, with no indication that they
will follow up on it. You know, if it happens
often enough, it can be a bit abusive. You know,
any one of these things, occasionally, I would not say
is abuse. It's human nature to maybe manipulate sometimes sometimes
we do get caught up and you know, not responding
(19:00):
to someone's bids for comfort. But if this is the
way that a person responds ninety nine point nine percent
of the time, then there may be some things happening
that are not one offs. It is not just you know,
a poor decision on this particular day. It's a pattern
of behaviors. You give me the silent treatment. Often I
(19:23):
can tell you five times in the last week, you
stop talking to me. I've seen this play out where
couples will say, yeah, we haven't talked to each other
in two weeks. What do they mean by that? It's
been like you have our son, Okay, bye, that's the
conversation for two weeks. It's only based on that one
thing where I'm not asking you for anything, I'm not
telling you when dinner's ready, I just will not talk
(19:43):
to you. So some of these things it becomes a
part of the relationship dynamic, not just with you know,
the one person being emotionally withdrawn or abusive, but you
can start to mimic some of this stuff too in
response to other people in our relationship. We have to
look at both parties right. Sometimes we're like, oh my gosh,
(20:05):
this person is always doing this thing to me, and
I wonder, even in our desire to protect ourselves, what
are we doing. You know, sometimes we're doing nothing and
sometimes we are doing something. So be aware of what
you might be bringing to the situation as well. Are
you the person who blames that person for having feelings
(20:27):
when you've created some dynamic. This isn't necessarily for the
letter writer, this is for all of us because we
need to be aware of ourselves in relationships. Am I
gaslighting this person because I just told them that that
didn't happen a way that they thought it did. Maybe
I am? Wow. There is power and self correction. So
(20:48):
if you notice yourself doing any of these things in
a partnership and a friendship and a family ship and
a coworkership, please correct yourself. We're not looking for here,
but we are looking for practice. So just do a
little bit better next time, or go back and say,
oh my gosh, the other day, you know, you were
trying to tell me something and I completely shut you down.
(21:10):
My apologies. Do you want to talk to me about
it now? So there are ways to get out of
these behaviors. Is you notice that you're the perpetrator? Because
to some extent, maybe we all do this, but not
all the time. It's problematic when we are the person
who's constantly in this set of behaviors. Let's get back
(21:32):
to those questions from the letter writer. So my main
questions are, first, how can I start to rebuild my
self esteem after nearly a decade of being put down
by my partner? I know there's so much to learn
from my mistakes, and I'm already feeling stronger than I
have in a really long time. But how can I
keep this momentum up while navigating the separation and pending
(21:54):
the force. I started reading self help books when I
was in high school, and my introduction to self help
was Ayala van zand I was really drawn to her
personality and I liked her books. One of the books
I read that I often recommend to clients is In
(22:15):
the Meantime. Now, imagine me a sixteen seventeen year old
girl reading In the Meantime, which is about you know
what to do when you're in this rocky place in
your relationship or when you're between, you know, dating relationships.
I'm reading this book. A lot of the scenarios at
the time did not apply to me, but I thought
(22:36):
it would be good preparation for my place in the world,
because we all end up in relationships at some point,
so I just wanted to know what might be headed
my way. So I'm going to recommend that book because
I'm hearing some of those scenarios that I read in
that book, which I have read again as a full
(22:56):
fledged adult, playing out in your relationship, and it can
be very helpful for us to identify with the stories
of others, to have some sort of guide to help
us along the way. So the book that I would
recommend for self esteem rebuilding after a difficult relationship is
(23:18):
In the Meantime. Another book that is coming to mind
is Whole Again, Whole Again. In that book, it talks
about how to repair yourself after all of the emotional abuse,
how to recover from toxic relationships. There's a lot of
newer tips about things to do. So I would say
(23:40):
those two books would be very helpful.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I know.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
For in the meantime, there's a journal to accompany the
book that could be really helpful. So if you buy
the book or if you buy the journal, it could
be helpful for processing some of those things. I'm a
fan of a journal, and I will tell you why
I love a guided journal based on whatever issue you're
experiencing in life, because it will give you all of
(24:04):
the questions to do the work. So if you are
working through a challenge with having a partner who has
a substance abuse issue, there is a workbook for that.
There's a workbook for that. And guess what you know.
It'll go through all these areas of the relationship that
maybe you didn't even think about. And I think it's
a great way to prepare to go to therapy or
(24:24):
even to show up in the therapy space. I always
recommend a good old work book to my clients. If
we don't do the pages together, sometimes I'll pull it
out and I'll say, Okay, here's a page, or let's
talk about this. It's not even you have to feel
this in and do this activity. Let's just talk about this.
Let's look at these workbook questions because I may not
(24:44):
even know what to ask, but someone does. There's a
workbook for that. Let's move on to the next question.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
How do I reclaim my identity when so much of
my intention has been drawn elsewhere. I don't even know
where to start when it comes to caring for myself,
figuring out who I really am now since so much
has changed since becoming a mom.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I feel like this episode is about to be a
whole episode about book recommendations, because the thing that I
am hearing the most is there's a lot of work
to be done around personality recovery, identity, lifestyle transition, and
that reminds me that there's not one thing you need
(25:28):
to do. There are many things that need to be done.
You know, you can rest and pause. But a book
is coming to mind. I'm thinking of a book called
mom Brain. I'm thinking of another book that could be
really good for this, called self nurture. You're going through
so many things at once. When you become a mom,
(25:49):
many of us take on the new identity as mom.
You know, I'm no longer Nadra, I'm this kid's mom,
and you are still yourself. You are still in there
steal a person with needs, even though this little human
has a ton of needs, even though your husband has
a ton of needs, even though his mom, even though
(26:09):
the household you have all the same needs that you've
always had and you're just adding more to it. So
there is this harmony that we have to create to
make sure we are taking care of ourselves really, really well.
And one way that I think we can do that
better is to learn how we have to learn how
(26:30):
we have to become educated about taking care of ourselves
in this role of being a mother, of being a father,
of you know, even being a friend. We have to
learn how to be friends. Sometimes we have to learn
how to be in healthy relationships, because you can see
what happens when we don't learn anything. We just repeat
(26:51):
what we've seen, We repeat what we know others have done,
and it's not always best and most of the time
it's a disaster. And in this situation you describe, your
husband has seen this stuff and now he's just repeating it.
It would have been so helpful to learn something different
that comes from maybe not our environments, it can come
(27:14):
from educating ourselves about how to show up as a
healthy being in our relationships with others. Let's keep listening.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I'm doing so much reflecting the help of my therapist
on things I should have healed before starting my relationship
with my husband, and developing plans to do even more
healing and growing so that I can be my best self.
Feelings of guilt and regret often creep up while doing
this work, not to mention that I feel like I'm
doing this own loan. Since I've been isolated for my
friends and family and to the controlling marriage. What can
(27:49):
I do to move past those negative thoughts and strengthen
compassion for myself and the situation I put myself in.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I'm so happy to hear your going to a therapist.
Take all of these book recommendations, these workbook recommendations, take
them back to your therapist and see what they feel about.
You know, some of these things. It can be really
helpful for us to figure out, you know, how we
got ourselves to this point. But what is the most
pressing thing right now? Whatever is happening right now? It's
(28:20):
not oh my gosh, five years ago I was in
this space. It's like, girl, he yelled at me yesterday,
right like, that's what we need to work through. It's
wonderful to know how you got here and all those things.
But I would say there are some solution focused approaches
that could be really helpful here. What do you do
next time when he says this thing? What do you
(28:42):
do when he tries to demean you? How do you
respond to him being upset when you say no? Those
are the things that could be helpful right now? Why
you got here? You spoke about it. It was a whirlwind.
He was very nice, and let's face it, people and
they were jerks. On a first date, you would not
be here. I'm sure. He was charming, wonderful, His cologne
(29:05):
smelled good, his fingernails was clipped, he was funny, all
of the things you would not be with a monster
who bopped you over the head on the first date.
It doesn't happen that way. There is a process to it, right,
So how did you get here? And oh my gosh,
I'm a terrible person. You're a person who believed in
other human beings, you were hopeful, you thought love was love.
(29:26):
You listen to your mother's, your friends, like you've watched
some movies like this is what we expect, and hopefully
that happens. Hopefully that happens. Every once in a while.
It does not. And I'm saying every once in a
while loosely, but that's what I want to believe. But
sometimes it does not happen that way. It doesn't mean,
oh my gosh, I was picking the wrong things unless
(29:46):
they were right with the right person. A lot of
these things we do in the beginning, you know, It's like,
with the right person, this wouldn't be an issue five
years later. So some of this stuff you may pick
apart about yourself. Oh I should have did this. It
was this thing, it was that thing. It's like, this
may have been a situation of the person and not
(30:09):
the behavior. Let's keep listening.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Realistically, can the relationships with my mother in law and
my husband be salvaged. I don't want to be connected
to him romantically anymore, but we will need to have
a good working relationship moving forward so that we can
raise our son from our respective households dual custody. Since
I told him my decision to leave, he has not
been critical, has not controlled me, and we've been able
(30:35):
to be cordial and handle logistics of parenting together. He
recognized his part and my decision, but I don't think
he's going to change how he is, which is why
I am moving on. I just don't know how long
this peace will last. I'm terrified that I'll start trying
to micromanage how I raise my son when he's with me.
I'm leaving because I don't have the freedom to be myself.
I just want to make sure I have the tools
(30:57):
to maintain that freedom. Details are important to note. We
attended couples therapy prior to our moved to San Diego
and I found it helpful, but my husband did not,
and he decided that we would manage things on our own.
We each have our own therapists who have been helping
us grow separately since moving to San Diego, and we're
(31:18):
still currently in the same household, but I will be
moving out in a month. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Years ago, I read this book called The Choice by
doctor Edith Ecker, and she spoke about being married for
thirty plus years and divorcing her husband because she built
so much resentment. She was upset at her mental load
in the relationship, she was doing the primary parenting, just
(31:47):
all of these things. She got so upset. They went
their separate ways, they started dating other people, and she
started to realize, oh my gosh, it was me. It
was me, me stopping me from being able to show
up in that relationship. I was looking for him to
grant me permission to do these things that I could
(32:10):
have been doing. So sometimes taking some space away from
a situation, we can see maybe this person isn't really
hold to be back now. They are providing some discomfort
in the environment, but I can still be myself. It
may not be comfortable for them, they may not like
some things, but that doesn't mean that I can't do
those things. So, whether you are in a marriage with him,
(32:33):
you are in a co parenting relationship, you will have
to show up as yourself, so some of your work
will be figuring out how to be yourself with a
difficult person. He may be unwilling to make that easier
for you, but it's what you have to do. You
need to hear this. Some people will not create an
(32:58):
environment for us to be ourselves, and we still need
to be ourselves. You need to hear this. Is an
iHeart production hosted by me Nedra Glover to wob Our
executive producer is Joel Barnique. Our senior producer and editor
is Mia don Taylor. Send us a voice memo with
(33:21):
your questions about boundaries and relationships at You need to
Hear this at iHeartMedia dot com. Please be sure to
rate our show wherever you listen to it, and share
this episode with someone who needs to hear this. Talk
to you next time.
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