April 19, 2024 • 13 mins
Today Nancy and Sheryl discuss these topics in today’s crime round-up:
- Bryan Kohberger's "Galileo Defense"
- The Shocking Oklahoma Custody Killings - four arrested, bitter In-Laws and lost grandchildren
Show Notes:
- [0:00] Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- [0:20] Watch Merit Plus for Free - https://www.meritplus.com/home
- [1:00] Nancy discusses cloud coverage on the night of the Idaho murders
- [5:30] Mother-in-law dynamics in Oklahoma murder cases
- [10:00] “Nobody’s talking about the preacher’s wife.”
---
Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/
Connect with Nancy:
X: @nancygrace
Instagram: @thenancygrace
Facebook: @nancygrace
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice.
Connect with Sheryl:
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Crime Roundup with the peerless Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Nancy, I could not wait to talk.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
To you about what I have dubbed the Galileo defense.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Listen when I was on MSM last night. Merritt Street Media,
which you better be watching, is Doctor Phil's new network PS.
You can also get it for free online Merritt Plus
dot com. That said, we talked all about cloud coverage,
the weather scenario the night of the Idaho murderers. Oh, Cheryl,
(00:50):
it was bad, it was foggy, it was icy. As
I recall, I looked it all up on the Farmer's
Almanight and through the Weather Bureau. But I go back,
I did not mention the word galileo because I knew
that's what you were going to say this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, I looked it up too. And here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
If you're such a fan of the moon, I can't
believe he went out November thirteenth looking at a Wayne
and Gibbons. That's only seventy four percent good when he
could have on the eighth gone out and looked at
the full beaver moon.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
How about that?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Okay, don't even go with full beaver because I'm gonna,
you know, catch hbl online for that. But I want
to tell you this, and I haven't said I thought
about I didn't put it together until after MSM last night.
But Cheryl, I've had a lot of viewers writing in
(01:48):
about where he said he was, and it's just like
Scott Peterson RIGI all over again. There is a parking
dick there. You don't just drive out into that park.
According to what I'm seeing online where he said he was,
there's a parking deck. So is there evidence, is there
(02:11):
photographic or is there a receipt? Remember Scott Peterson when
he went to go dumb Lacy and Connor's bodies, he
got stuck in the marina and couldn't really navigate his
new boat, his new secret boat that well, and so
the attendant remembered him. So whether there's an attendant at
(02:32):
three o'clock in the morning, or whether there is an
in and out, you know, automatic lift for you to
get into the garage, there could be evidence that he
was or was not there.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Rot Row exactly right.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And you know the thing that just blows my mind
about people now saying, see he didn't do it, He
wasn't anywhere near there now they want us to believe
that the real killer ob named a knife, left a
sheath behind with Coburger's DNA, drove a car similar to his,
and committed the crimes while he was out looking at
the moon.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
One other thing is that he ordered that exact knife,
sheath and knife from Amazon, and we have that receipt.
And I'm betting Cheryl McCollum that when they.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Review his full and review reveal his full digital footprint,
we're going to find out where he searched for the
knife and got that particular knife.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Like, Okay, here's an example. This morning, my dog went
out of Squeaky Toys, fat Boy, the love of his life,
and I went to Pet Smart and I looked at
multiple Squeaky toys until I found the one he liked. Okay, example,
Don't you know Coburger, as antal compulsive as he is,
looked and looked and looked for the right knife. And
(03:53):
how is it that he buys a knife and the
sheep and out of all his possessions, that's what's miss
So you've got his knife, his car in the area,
you have his cell phone pinging there. According to the state,
I think that there's going to be a real problem
for the state, though, Cheryl, with the now admission that
(04:15):
there is no stalking, and I want to remind everybody
it was not the state that put that out there
to start with, that Coburger had been stalking at least
one of the four victims. That was put out there
by others, not the state. In fact, the police said,
LA law enforcement set up the get go, we don't
(04:35):
have evidence of stalking. But in open court the state
had to say there is no stalking. Now what is
the defense going to do with that? No stalking, no motive,
no murder. That's my fear.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Well, Nancy, do you think he waited to create this
alibi after the discovery?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well, if the defense acted, pursue it to every other
defense attorney I have ever known in the history of
my law practice.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yes, I did too.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yes, And I want to point out something else. He
is refusing to say exactly his coordinates until the state
hands over more discovery. So he's not exactly telling us
where he was. He's saying, I was in this general
area stargazing. What a co inky dink coincidence that night
(05:25):
he happens to be in the area driving around at
the time of the murders. When they say he's far away,
he's not that far away. It's about ten miles away.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That's right. Listen, I know we've got limited time.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I want to shift gears and get your opinion about Oklahoma.
Four people have been arrested, Tiffany Adams, Tad Cullen, Colorra,
and Cole Twombly.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But I want to.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Talk specifically about the sixteen year old hero in this
thing that has given law enforcement information about her mother
and stepfather, Clora and Cole Twombley. Sixteen, I mean Lucy's age,
and she's having to give information to law enforcement about
what all went on and what she heard.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And what she was subjected to. Another thing.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I've been thinking a lot about her, like you have, Cheryl.
If she is telling us this much, what does that
mean about the rest of her life with these ghules? Yes, Now,
what it spoils down to is the mother in law
being furious, the granny being furious that the biological mother
(06:37):
now martyr victim, was going to get more custody of
the children. She was never going to get full custody.
The grandma's son, the bio dad, was always going to
have some custody. The whole bunch of them are let's
just say they should all stew in the same part together.
But I'm very curious how this whole thing is going down,
(06:59):
because just recently, you and I worked on the case
of Dan Markel, the Florida law professor who was killed
when he refused to relinquish custody of his own children
and he refused to move to South Florida to be
closer to the grandparents. He wouldn't do it. He ended
(07:19):
up dead in the driveway. Girl. And who was behind that,
according to the state, the mother in law. You know what, Cheryl,
you met my mother in law and Lynch, God rest
her soul. And I've said this a million times. Right now,
you know, I wear on my right hand it looks
like a wedding band, but it is actually some of
(07:40):
miss Lynch's jewelry melted down, and that's what I wear.
And I never in all the years I knew Miss Lynch,
we never had a crossword. She probably bit her song off.
Never said a sane word, neither her nor mischillant. And
(08:01):
when I think about I mean, I just gave myself
chills when I think about a mother in law hating
her daughter in law so much that you would go
to the link of killing her rather than not having
the grandchildren all the time. It's crazy, but not in
a legal sense. Don't jump up with insanity on this
(08:24):
and another thing. How did she convince all these three
other people to go along with a double murder?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Exactly? Well, they're God's misfits. But I'm gonna tell you. You know,
my mother in law too, has never been anything since
I was a kid. I've known her since I was fourteen,
nothing but supportive and kind and loving and would do
anything to help me be a better parent.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh wait a minute, anything to help you, anything to
help me. Do you remember that baby shower she had
at doa house and there were lines of police officer
and prosecutor and a couple of dephboths showed up. Is
he welcomed them all, y'all? Oh, we had a good time.
I wish I could do that all over again.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Y'all. Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
There were supposed to be about one hundred people at
that baby shower. People started coming out of the woodwork.
The police literally had to show up and direct traffic.
I don't even remember how many people we had, but listen,
it was the greatest. It was absolutely just such a
wonderful time in both of our lives.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Your mother in law's home, we are Trump beilt Trump
through her house, and oh we had the best time.
And she was the most gracious and wonderful lady. And
I almost feel guilty about talking about our mother's in
law because I got to tell you, I'll end in
a pot of honey when I hooked up with a
Lynch family. But what I'm saying is it, and think
(09:46):
about the grandchildren involved. The mother is dead, the grandma's
going to jail, and the father, well, you know what,
I'll let his record speak for itself.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And that's the thing that's so just gut wrenching. Here
You've got six children that during the event immediately lost
a parent. And then you've got the sixteen year old,
she's got a brother. We're like at eight or ten
children that lost a parent in some way.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And you know who nobody's talking about. The preacher's wife.
She was just doing a good deed because the mom,
because of the grandma, could only see her children with
court supervisions. So she was just going along as a
good deed. She's a mother, a wife, very involved in
her church and her community. She's dead. She was just
(10:33):
a ride along, she was just a wing man, and
she is dead. And when I think of those pools
of blood outside that car and those depraved animals that
did this to two unarmed ladies over what custody? Oh,
how much custody? You think she's going to get? Buying
bars a week? Leave, visit for a while, and then
(10:55):
the grandchildren would go Grandma who?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And I'll tell you something else.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
She thought she was and slick doing this while her
son was in rehab, thinking she would give him an
automatic alibi. He's liable to never see him again either.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, you're right about that. If it can be proven
that he knew or could have known anything about it,
that is an argument I would make to keep him
away from the children, absolutely, because what else is going
to happen? And what if they already lived through.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
That's right, Listen, I know you've got to run, but
I will leave this.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I feel like you're I feel like you're trying to
get rid of me. I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I would never But do you remember speaking to the
baby shower?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think I feel somebody sitting on my coattails right now?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Who is honey? You know that? Remember that woman that
asked me that, Oh.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You're that girl that just rides Nancy Gray's's coattail?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I said, you don'g gone right, honey, serves up?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
No, wait a minute, what were you going to say
about the shower?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
My mother in law is just like you said, just
this sweet southern woman. She is just the epitome of
a lady. Everything is just perfect. But she told my
other law, don't you come back hunting. You stay gone
until I call you. And he could not resist because
he loved you so much. When he walked in in
those overalls with dirt and grime and fur and whatever
(12:13):
else all over him, I thought she was gonna pass
straight out. But of course you and Renee Rockel and
everybody was so lovely to him too. But he was
such a fan. So I just had to remind you
of that part, because there's a photograph of him kissing
you on the cheek, and every time she says that
she gets mad.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Hey, I want to copy of that picture. Go ahead,
put a copy of that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I will send it.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It was yesterday, oh my goodness. And now the twins
are driving. God help us all.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
God help us all.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I tell you, it just flies, but it's just the
best time.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I guess we're gonna have to We're gonna have to
go to Oklahoma. And I know because I got to
see these trials for myself. I don't want to see
him on a TV lens. I want to see the
whole food.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Girl, I'll drive, let's go.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Okay bye.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
This is the Crime Roundup and I'm Cheryl McCollum.
Welcome to the Crime Roundup with the peerless Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Nancy, I could not wait to talk.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
To you about what I have dubbed the Galileo defense.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Listen when I was on MSM last night. Merritt Street Media,
which you better be watching, is Doctor Phil's new network PS.
You can also get it for free online Merritt Plus
dot com. That said, we talked all about cloud coverage,
the weather scenario the night of the Idaho murderers. Oh, Cheryl,
(00:50):
it was bad, it was foggy, it was icy. As
I recall, I looked it all up on the Farmer's
Almanight and through the Weather Bureau. But I go back,
I did not mention the word galileo because I knew
that's what you were going to say this morning.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, I looked it up too. And here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
If you're such a fan of the moon, I can't
believe he went out November thirteenth looking at a Wayne
and Gibbons. That's only seventy four percent good when he
could have on the eighth gone out and looked at
the full beaver moon.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
How about that?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Okay, don't even go with full beaver because I'm gonna,
you know, catch hbl online for that. But I want
to tell you this, and I haven't said I thought
about I didn't put it together until after MSM last night.
But Cheryl, I've had a lot of viewers writing in
(01:48):
about where he said he was, and it's just like
Scott Peterson RIGI all over again. There is a parking
dick there. You don't just drive out into that park.
According to what I'm seeing online where he said he was,
there's a parking deck. So is there evidence, is there
(02:11):
photographic or is there a receipt? Remember Scott Peterson when
he went to go dumb Lacy and Connor's bodies, he
got stuck in the marina and couldn't really navigate his
new boat, his new secret boat that well, and so
the attendant remembered him. So whether there's an attendant at
(02:32):
three o'clock in the morning, or whether there is an
in and out, you know, automatic lift for you to
get into the garage, there could be evidence that he
was or was not there.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Rot Row exactly right.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
And you know the thing that just blows my mind
about people now saying, see he didn't do it, He
wasn't anywhere near there now they want us to believe
that the real killer ob named a knife, left a
sheath behind with Coburger's DNA, drove a car similar to his,
and committed the crimes while he was out looking at
the moon.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
One other thing is that he ordered that exact knife,
sheath and knife from Amazon, and we have that receipt.
And I'm betting Cheryl McCollum that when they.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Review his full and review reveal his full digital footprint,
we're going to find out where he searched for the
knife and got that particular knife.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Like, Okay, here's an example. This morning, my dog went
out of Squeaky Toys, fat Boy, the love of his life,
and I went to Pet Smart and I looked at
multiple Squeaky toys until I found the one he liked. Okay, example,
Don't you know Coburger, as antal compulsive as he is,
looked and looked and looked for the right knife. And
(03:53):
how is it that he buys a knife and the
sheep and out of all his possessions, that's what's miss
So you've got his knife, his car in the area,
you have his cell phone pinging there. According to the state,
I think that there's going to be a real problem
for the state, though, Cheryl, with the now admission that
(04:15):
there is no stalking, and I want to remind everybody
it was not the state that put that out there
to start with, that Coburger had been stalking at least
one of the four victims. That was put out there
by others, not the state. In fact, the police said,
LA law enforcement set up the get go, we don't
(04:35):
have evidence of stalking. But in open court the state
had to say there is no stalking. Now what is
the defense going to do with that? No stalking, no motive,
no murder. That's my fear.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Well, Nancy, do you think he waited to create this
alibi after the discovery?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Well, if the defense acted, pursue it to every other
defense attorney I have ever known in the history of
my law practice.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yes, I did too.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
Yes, And I want to point out something else. He
is refusing to say exactly his coordinates until the state
hands over more discovery. So he's not exactly telling us
where he was. He's saying, I was in this general
area stargazing. What a co inky dink coincidence that night
(05:25):
he happens to be in the area driving around at
the time of the murders. When they say he's far away,
he's not that far away. It's about ten miles away.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
That's right. Listen, I know we've got limited time.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
I want to shift gears and get your opinion about Oklahoma.
Four people have been arrested, Tiffany Adams, Tad Cullen, Colorra,
and Cole Twombly.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
But I want to.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Talk specifically about the sixteen year old hero in this
thing that has given law enforcement information about her mother
and stepfather, Clora and Cole Twombley. Sixteen, I mean Lucy's age,
and she's having to give information to law enforcement about
what all went on and what she heard.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
And what she was subjected to. Another thing.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I've been thinking a lot about her, like you have, Cheryl.
If she is telling us this much, what does that
mean about the rest of her life with these ghules? Yes, Now,
what it spoils down to is the mother in law
being furious, the granny being furious that the biological mother
(06:37):
now martyr victim, was going to get more custody of
the children. She was never going to get full custody.
The grandma's son, the bio dad, was always going to
have some custody. The whole bunch of them are let's
just say they should all stew in the same part together.
But I'm very curious how this whole thing is going down,
(06:59):
because just recently, you and I worked on the case
of Dan Markel, the Florida law professor who was killed
when he refused to relinquish custody of his own children
and he refused to move to South Florida to be
closer to the grandparents. He wouldn't do it. He ended
(07:19):
up dead in the driveway. Girl. And who was behind that,
according to the state, the mother in law. You know what, Cheryl,
you met my mother in law and Lynch, God rest
her soul. And I've said this a million times. Right now,
you know, I wear on my right hand it looks
like a wedding band, but it is actually some of
(07:40):
miss Lynch's jewelry melted down, and that's what I wear.
And I never in all the years I knew Miss Lynch,
we never had a crossword. She probably bit her song off.
Never said a sane word, neither her nor mischillant. And
(08:01):
when I think about I mean, I just gave myself
chills when I think about a mother in law hating
her daughter in law so much that you would go
to the link of killing her rather than not having
the grandchildren all the time. It's crazy, but not in
a legal sense. Don't jump up with insanity on this
(08:24):
and another thing. How did she convince all these three
other people to go along with a double murder?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Exactly? Well, they're God's misfits. But I'm gonna tell you. You know,
my mother in law too, has never been anything since
I was a kid. I've known her since I was fourteen,
nothing but supportive and kind and loving and would do
anything to help me be a better parent.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
Oh wait a minute, anything to help you, anything to
help me. Do you remember that baby shower she had
at doa house and there were lines of police officer
and prosecutor and a couple of dephboths showed up. Is
he welcomed them all, y'all? Oh, we had a good time.
I wish I could do that all over again.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Y'all. Let me tell you something.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
There were supposed to be about one hundred people at
that baby shower. People started coming out of the woodwork.
The police literally had to show up and direct traffic.
I don't even remember how many people we had, but listen,
it was the greatest. It was absolutely just such a
wonderful time in both of our lives.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
Your mother in law's home, we are Trump beilt Trump
through her house, and oh we had the best time.
And she was the most gracious and wonderful lady. And
I almost feel guilty about talking about our mother's in
law because I got to tell you, I'll end in
a pot of honey when I hooked up with a
Lynch family. But what I'm saying is it, and think
(09:46):
about the grandchildren involved. The mother is dead, the grandma's
going to jail, and the father, well, you know what,
I'll let his record speak for itself.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
And that's the thing that's so just gut wrenching. Here
You've got six children that during the event immediately lost
a parent. And then you've got the sixteen year old,
she's got a brother. We're like at eight or ten
children that lost a parent in some way.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
And you know who nobody's talking about. The preacher's wife.
She was just doing a good deed because the mom,
because of the grandma, could only see her children with
court supervisions. So she was just going along as a
good deed. She's a mother, a wife, very involved in
her church and her community. She's dead. She was just
(10:33):
a ride along, she was just a wing man, and
she is dead. And when I think of those pools
of blood outside that car and those depraved animals that
did this to two unarmed ladies over what custody? Oh,
how much custody? You think she's going to get? Buying
bars a week? Leave, visit for a while, and then
(10:55):
the grandchildren would go Grandma who?
Speaker 2 (10:58):
And I'll tell you something else.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
She thought she was and slick doing this while her
son was in rehab, thinking she would give him an
automatic alibi. He's liable to never see him again either.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, you're right about that. If it can be proven
that he knew or could have known anything about it,
that is an argument I would make to keep him
away from the children, absolutely, because what else is going
to happen? And what if they already lived through.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
That's right, Listen, I know you've got to run, but
I will leave this.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I feel like you're I feel like you're trying to
get rid of me. I don't like it.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I would never But do you remember speaking to the
baby shower?
Speaker 3 (11:30):
I think I feel somebody sitting on my coattails right now?
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Who is honey? You know that? Remember that woman that
asked me that, Oh.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You're that girl that just rides Nancy Gray's's coattail?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
I said, you don'g gone right, honey, serves up?
Speaker 3 (11:47):
No, wait a minute, what were you going to say
about the shower?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
My mother in law is just like you said, just
this sweet southern woman. She is just the epitome of
a lady. Everything is just perfect. But she told my
other law, don't you come back hunting. You stay gone
until I call you. And he could not resist because
he loved you so much. When he walked in in
those overalls with dirt and grime and fur and whatever
(12:13):
else all over him, I thought she was gonna pass
straight out. But of course you and Renee Rockel and
everybody was so lovely to him too. But he was
such a fan. So I just had to remind you
of that part, because there's a photograph of him kissing
you on the cheek, and every time she says that
she gets mad.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Hey, I want to copy of that picture. Go ahead,
put a copy of that.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
I will send it.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
It was yesterday, oh my goodness. And now the twins
are driving. God help us all.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
God help us all.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
I tell you, it just flies, but it's just the
best time.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
I guess we're gonna have to We're gonna have to
go to Oklahoma. And I know because I got to
see these trials for myself. I don't want to see
him on a TV lens. I want to see the
whole food.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Girl, I'll drive, let's go.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Okay bye.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
This is the Crime Roundup and I'm Cheryl McCollum.
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Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.