May 9, 2025 • 23 mins
Nancy Grace and Sheryl McCollum dissect the legal complexities and cultural reverberations of the Sean "Diddy" Combs case.
They discuss how media narratives, witness credibility, and the magnetic pull of celebrity can influence a jury’s perception—regardless of the facts. They unpack how victim stories are often distorted or dismissed and explore the deeply personal, often painful reasons many survivors stay silent for years before finding the strength to speak out
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- (0:30) Happy Mother’s day weekend
- (3:00) Sean Combs…a.k.a Diddy has plead not guilty
- (6:00) Biggest obstacles for Diddy
- (7:30) Diddy's charges and public perception
- (8:00) Charisma in the courtroom
- (10:00) Defense tactics and likeability bias
- (13:00) Questioning victims - why didn’t they speak sooner?
- (15:00) Cassie Ventura’s video
- (19:00) Defining consent and power imbalances
- (20:00) Voir Dire - jury selection strategies explained
- (22:00) Open vs. silent strikes
- (22:30) Prediction of how long Diddy trial will last
---
Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/
Connect with Nancy:
X: @nancygrace
Instagram: @thenancygrace
Facebook: @nancygrace
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice.
Connect with Sheryl:
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to the Crime Roundup. I'm Cheryl McCollum and I'm
joined this morning with the beautiful, talented, brilliant Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
See okay, A, that was that your normal wind up?
You have no energy. I like that because when the
other person has no energy, I can pounce upon them,
and I can shred them much more easily when they
don't fight it back. But also, this is a surprise
everyone because unlike every other single time ever we have
done Crime Roundup, Cheryl has not discussed the topic hand
(00:42):
of time. So this is a surprise, which I don't like.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
It is a surprise.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The big surprise.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Well, first of all, Happy Mother's Day weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I know.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Let me guess what John, David and Lucy got you
tickets to the Lukejimony Musical.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well not yet. Surprisingly they don't. They don't know that
much about him. I don't know. Actually, if I said
his name, they would know about it, because it kept
coming up on TikTok. I'm sorry to say.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, a musical, can you imagine?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I have a question for you. Yesterday we did our
normal chauffeur from the courthouse on Thursdays we normally gave
to the courthouse where Sean Combs aka Diddy is being tried.
But I did an MSM Mary Street media show and
a YouTube program. And I'm just making sure that you
(01:38):
saw the utube program that posted last night.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I saw you and Lauren Conlin.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
You're such a big liar. You did not watch it.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Exactly what Lauren Codlin had on.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You know what, it's so easy to cross examine you.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It's not okay.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Do you have on?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
He had on a green dresser, hair was down and long,
and she had all this just tremendously beautiful colored lipstick.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
She looked flawless.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
She has on a pink top with an unusual neckline.
To objection, you know, I'm color blind. So that's you're out,
because I've got a very unique banner that I made
up myself. Did he need a dip because he has
because he has for a bathroom break. I mean, I
(02:27):
couldn't ignore that.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
He did not ignore that.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Man man up.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh goodness goodness. Yeah, he pled guilty on all all
the charges. He's done nothing, he has, It's all over down.
I picked anybody hadn't cross be teened anybody? He didn't
you know, slip anybody some drugs they were aware of.
He's done nothing wrong, nothing at all. Now tell me
(02:52):
what you think of the latest in the courtroom. I
can't wait to hear this for did.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
He I same? You're referring to Sean Comes, hadn't they?
Y'all were on a nickname.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Since you mean Buffy Puff Daddy.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You know exactly how to drive me crazy, don't you.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It's one of my favorite things to do.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
But listen, now, I don't know that much about what's
going on except he has plaied not guilty. I have
been so busy this week. I've had visitors from the
State Department. I have had training. I've had simulator training,
so I have been a little out of pocket simulator training.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Listen?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It is a screened floor to ceiling where you are
put in real life scenarios where you're told there's.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
An incident going on in a bar, and when.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
You walk into the bar, people pop up and it
could either be the perpetrator or a victim.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So you've got to decide to split second shoot, don't you.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
We've been doing that at Laser Tag for a really
long time, since the twins were like seven yet you
want me? Okay whatever, you're in to the simulator room.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Okay, yeah, it's fabulous.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I can just see Lucy right now with you and
John David does come into order of that poor thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I never scared a little Lucy. She's my little flower.
I love her so much. Why is it so different
with boys and girls? And when people first told me that,
I thought they were being stereotypical, that they were just
putting that on girls when it wasn't true. It's really true.
Raising them is so different. And I think I figured
out why girls think boys just like food, basketball, food Fortnite,
(04:32):
food basketball. But that's that's it. Girls actually have thoughts.
That's the difference. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
That is a great little summation, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Okay, other than your simulating training, did you get some
kind of a badge or certification for that?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
No, it's just training in a you know, in departmental.
But I'll tell you what I did get to do.
The State Department had a delegation from Kerk'smenistan, which was
a country I was not familiar with, so I had
to do a lot of research. They have a horse
that is their country's symbol. Basically, that is the most
(05:12):
gorgeous horse I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They called it a golden horse.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So they were extremely interested in mounted patrol. Here, they
were interested in wildlife crimes, and then they were interested
in cold cases.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
So that's why they selected to meet with me.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I had a fantastic time talking with them and learn
just as much from them. But the remarkable thing is
they brought me a purse, and this purse almost looks
like a Persian rug. It is gorgeous, just as a
thank you for taking the time to meet with them.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, that's wonderful. I don't care your purse. I stuff
everything in my braw so I could beat hands free
when I want their housing projects. Can we talk about
the law, because I'm very uncomfortable talking about perse Is
style fashion I know nothing about it. I would like
to talk about something I'm actually interested in, and that
would either be my children, your children, children in general,
(06:10):
or murder that's pretty or recipes. Those are really the
only things I'm interested in.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Well, you know, I don't care a person either, same
reason I need my hands free.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But what do you see as the biggest obstacle for
the prosecution with Diddy, if any, the.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Biggest obstacle right now would be I was on a
to be let's just say get together yesterday with Harvey
Levin from TMZ and Mark Gergez and I call them
both on They kept referring to the victims as ex girlfriends,
(06:48):
and I got to thinking about it. I think that's
going to be a problem. Not that they are ex girlfriends.
That's not the problem. The problem is the way it's
going to be portrayed, like, oh, they were girlfriends, they
broke up in a snit, and this is a retaliation
that says jealousy. It's a scorn. If they didn't consent
(07:12):
to what was happening, why they stay in it. And
also there's gonna be the issue of Sean Combs's likability.
I've never been up close to Combs, ever been around Combs,
but apparently he has some magnetic and charismatic personality even
if he does not take the stand. That translates to gen.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Mars agreed, yep.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And he's famous. Whether they know him or like him
or a fan, they still know of him. And I
think people like a Carnival Barker, they're gonna want to
see it. They can't turn away from it. And I
think some of the jurors are going to be enthralled
with what all is happening.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I'm worried about that. And I'll tell you who
had a huge likability factory. You know, our friend Renee
rock Wills like that. She has just a charisma about her.
You have that charisma to me. I think that Johnny
Cochranton is a perfect example. He could walk into a room.
(08:16):
It was like moth to a flame. Women wanted to
be with him, men wanted to be him. He just
has an it factor. And I think that that persuaded
Judge Eto and the jury because a lot of what
Johnny said is not the law. But you know, he
has a way. He had a way of turning the
(08:36):
facts in the law. And you know, here's the thing.
When you like somebody, you want to go along with them.
You want to believe what they're saying. You want to
agree with him. There were some defense attorneys that were
so wiley had gotten away with Okay, here you go.
(08:57):
Here's a great example. I won't not say who it is,
but you might remember this. A defense Atorney in Inner
City Atlanta constantly worked out. I swear I thought he's
on steroids because he had to have his pants specially
tailored because they were so fie, like a boy sized pants.
In his chest was like a big barrel, constantly working out. Again,
(09:20):
I think he's on stereot stories. I'd been on like
wife number eight anyway, and at number three I can
blame them right the other party until you get to
like three or four. Now, first thing, I go, oh,
that was a start of marriage. Just that doesn't count
with a big mistake. Then the second one, when that
falls apart, that's believable too, because you're like, well, maybe
(09:44):
they were abusive, maybe they ran through all the money,
maybe they were mean to the stepchild. But when you
get to the third one, you're starting to think, okay, now,
wait a minute, wait a minute, the third fourth, except
of course, Elizabeth Taylor. He's perfect, Okay, wasn't her fault?
And Martha Ray and Martha Ray perfect. But back to
(10:05):
the defense lawyer. So there was a I guess I
played a rayment calendar, and this defense attorney's lawyer, his
client didn't show up. It was getting the end of
the calendar, and I kept saying, okay, he's going to
get bond forfeited, which means he loses his bond and
gets arrested the minute he spotted and he goes, no,
(10:26):
he'll come, he'll come. I'm like, okay, great, well, let's
just wait till the end of the day. By the
end of the day, the guy hadn't shown that. I'm like, okay,
he's going to get a bond forfeit. It was just
like everybody else. The guy goes he's out in the hall.
The defense lawyer went out in the hall and brought
in a defendant. I'm like, great, let's do to the arrayment.
I went and got the file. I went up to
the podium to take you know, to read him his
(10:49):
charges and let him play one way or the other,
and you know, then it would be several ways before
trial calendar or longer. When I opened the file, which
was unusual, there happened to be the right there on
the front at normally was in a folder in the back.
And I looked down, I looked up. I went what
that wasn't his client? He had either paid or gotten
(11:13):
a guy out in the hall to come in and
pretend to be the defendant. And if I hadn't seen
the picture, no one would have noticed.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
From that point on, that was just one of many
of his sneaky tricks. From that point on, every time
I saw him, I'm like, Oh, my stars, here he comes.
Here comes a BS right now. I never believed another
thing he said. On the other hand, there are people,
and I'll tell you one was like Brian Steele, who
was representing dedde Right now. I would see Brian Steele
(11:44):
walking down the court. There'd be a long haul coming
leading up to the courtroom. I go, oh, here come Stele,
And I knew that everything would go smoothly. He'd be prepared,
he'd be pleasant, and I didn't know if it was
going to be ended up being a trial, a not guilty,
a guilty. He might give me some facts I didn't
(12:04):
already know, which might change my opinion. But that's the
way I felt when I would say, Brian's Steel coming.
See what I mean, absolutely, And I think that these
lawyers are like that. That one is Brian Steele. He
just has a way in the courtroom that's likable. And
(12:24):
I'm telling you that makes people more amenable to what
they're saying, whether what they're saying is correct or it's
the law or not. So that's a concern because they've
got a lot of very likable, charismatic lawyers.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat, allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was a medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what
happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice.
(13:06):
For an in depth look at the facts, see what
Happened to Ellen on Amazon? All proceeds to the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Well, I think the prosecution is going to have to
do exactly what you just laid out. They're going to
have to look at that jury and say, you know what,
three or four of these women might have got together
and made something up to come after you know, the accused.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But one hundred and twenty, well, a lot of those.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Are the cases that are not going to come into
similar transactions. The only way some of them will come
in is if good character is brought in by the defense,
you know, like if you're getting tried for armed robbery again,
and I as a prosecutor go, oh yeah, and she's
got plenty of drug disorderlies. I can't say that that
(14:03):
brings in your character for no probative reason.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
The only reason a lot of those civil.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Actions could come in is if good characters brought in
by the defense. They can't just bring in everything comes
has ever been charged with, so it's limited. There's not
that many victims coming in. The thing they've got going
for them is they've got the cassive interiitate, which shows
(14:32):
that what was happening in that room was not consensual.
They have witnesses, thoses are going to be subjected to
a very searing cross exam like were you paid had
you been on an HBO documentary? Did you get paid
for that by the way they did? You know, It's
that kind of thing can ruin your case. But I
(14:53):
agree with you, Cheryl, with that many witnesses are they
all lying and Chilen comes to the only one telling
the truth.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Because here's the reality of those twelve jurors sitting there.
They probably have at least three breakups in their life.
How many of those people came back at you, how
many accused you of something so heinous that you didn't do?
Probably of the jurors, maybe one had somebody say something
(15:23):
about them, not this many, not this horrible. And again,
he's been famous a long long time, he's been rich
a long long time. So if that was their motive
to lie about somebody to try to get money from them,
they sure waited a long time.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, they really did. And another thing that I think
that's fabloid joining us as a legal consultant. Shut up David.
I had to know David was somewhere in the vicinity
because the dog came running through. That usually predeceases either me,
David Lucy or John David. Do you see the dog
run through first? Okay, I don't know who's going to
(16:04):
run by next? Okay? Where was I Cheryl? Oh? Why
wait this long? Why not call police at the time.
That's an age old tried and t line across examination.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And it works, it does sometimes.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But I think if they get the right maybe even
expert witness to explain they were given drugs where they
didn't have a good memory. It was all fuzzy, but
they knew something horrible happened. They knew they didn't consent
to it. But their testimony would have been limited because
of what was done to them.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Somehow, the state is going to have to explain the
phenomena of women not coming forward when they have been raped,
why they don't come forward? I remember, do you remember
Emmanuel Hammond's kill Teliet Life.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Absolutely, there were.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Similar transactions in that case. One was a lady that
in her culture it was a huge embarrassment to have
been raped, and she had never even told her husband,
and all she would allow the prosecutor to say was
(17:22):
that Emmanuel Hammond's had kidnapped her, beaten her up, tied
her up, and thrown her in his courch trunk, which
is exactly what they did to Julie Love and others.
But she made it clear her husband was sitting out
in the audience that if she was asked, were you raped,
which she was, she would say no. So there's it's
(17:44):
very complicated, very complicated. That's what they're going to have
to explain. Why they thought they'd lose their job, why
they thought they would be blackballed out of the entertainment
industry by one of the most powerful figures in the
entertainment industry, why they didn't come forward, and how they
got the courage to come forward and Cassie Venture spoke up.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
That's right, exactly right, and there was the video, so
now they knew people would believe them because there's.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Prow Yeah, Garret gar said something really interesting and I
had heard this before, but it jogged my memory. Many
people have been stating that Cassie was running down that
hallway away from comes because he was forcing her back
into a freak off. What they are going to argue
the defense is that she was angry because she saw
someone else had texted him another woman, and was angry
(18:35):
and left. That's not gonna watch. She was trying to leave,
he came back. He beat her, gut kicked her, kicked
her in the head, and dragged her back. So I
don't think that's gonna work. But that's what they're going
to claim as to why she was leaving.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay, let's say she left because she was angry and jealous.
He chased her down in a towel, so he was naked,
He beat her, drug her. Why would he be that
angry because she's jealous?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Exactly. You know, that's a bunch of men for you
coming up with that one. But you know, I don't
know what they have in their back of tricks, but
we'll find out soon enough. I thought that vodyre jury
selection would yield a little bit more evidence as to
where they're coming from on the defense. M I did
(19:28):
learn that they're claiming all this was consensual, that did
he was just just a swinger, don't ike mean because
I'm a swinger, And that there was a lot of
volunteering use of the drugs and alcohol. That's where they're
coming from. What else can they do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
It's going to be one of those things where they're
going to have to explain it could have been consensual
up until it wasn't. And I could go to his house,
I could go to a party, I could drink alcohol,
even do a line of cocaine. But the minute you
render me helpless, unconscious, that's where everything took a turn.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
So they're masking I know how to do this. I
know how to violate women.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Where they can't testify against me. It's just like the
Daybreak drug.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
We got a little bit of knowledge from the vodier.
That's your re selection. I won't see more. As soon
as they begin, you'll start seeing the shape of what
the defense is going to be. Of course, an opening
statement and through the cross examination of witnesses.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I'm curious who's going.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
To be giving the openings, how that's going to play out.
The way they're doing for a dyer is really interesting
in inner city Atlanta, and whenever I was part of
a case with the Feds, we would have either open
strikes or silence strikes. Open strikes are as a general
(20:58):
or the whole panel standing. A juror would stand up
and this says, after what I are questioning. The judge
would say, jurre number one, and of course the state
has to go first, and I typically would take nearly
all the jurors. There wouldn't be very many that I
would strike, because the defense would have twenty strikes and
(21:22):
I would have ten, and we would have a jerry
paddle of you know, one hundred or more people. And
I don't like getting off on the wrong foot by
rejecting people. You have to be really like a convicted
felon for me to strike you. And I would say
in open court, the state accepts the Lady Gerard, or
(21:43):
I'd say the state respectfully releases the Lady Gerard. All right,
you go through like that, or typically the defense might
want silence strikes it takes a lot longer, which the
clerk of the court comes over and gets a piece
of paper and it says jar one, and you accept,
(22:05):
the state accepts, or the state rejects, and they hand
the piece of paper in silence to the defense and
they take it up to the judge. And so the
jars never know who is striking you. So I like
for everything to be open and above board. I don't
like silence strikes. That's the way it's going to happen
here Friday. Today, the jurors are not coming back to
(22:28):
the courtroom. The lawyers and the judge, the calendar, the
court reporter will be there and they are selecting the
jury without the jury even being there today, the twelve
germors and I think six alternates. I think they need more.
Remember Scott Peterson. The jury and the alternates will be
called over the weekend and told okay, you're in.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Okay, Well here we go. And I think it's only
going to last a couple of weeks, don't you.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I think it'll be dragged out. How do you say
a couple of weeks?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I just think they're going to be very direct, and
those witnesses are going to be up and down. I
think everybody's anticipating so wicked names coming out, but I
haven't heard anything that's going to just set this thing
on its tail.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
I haven't. Okay, I'll see you Corn, all right, baby?
Have you Mother's Day?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You too, Dear bike,
Welcome to the Crime Roundup. I'm Cheryl McCollum and I'm
joined this morning with the beautiful, talented, brilliant Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
See okay, A, that was that your normal wind up?
You have no energy. I like that because when the
other person has no energy, I can pounce upon them,
and I can shred them much more easily when they
don't fight it back. But also, this is a surprise
everyone because unlike every other single time ever we have
done Crime Roundup, Cheryl has not discussed the topic hand
(00:42):
of time. So this is a surprise, which I don't like.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
It is a surprise.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
The big surprise.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Well, first of all, Happy Mother's Day weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I can't believe it.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I know.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Let me guess what John, David and Lucy got you
tickets to the Lukejimony Musical.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well not yet. Surprisingly they don't. They don't know that
much about him. I don't know. Actually, if I said
his name, they would know about it, because it kept
coming up on TikTok. I'm sorry to say.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Yeah, a musical, can you imagine?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I have a question for you. Yesterday we did our
normal chauffeur from the courthouse on Thursdays we normally gave
to the courthouse where Sean Combs aka Diddy is being tried.
But I did an MSM Mary Street media show and
a YouTube program. And I'm just making sure that you
(01:38):
saw the utube program that posted last night.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I saw you and Lauren Conlin.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
You're such a big liar. You did not watch it.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Exactly what Lauren Codlin had on.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
You know what, it's so easy to cross examine you.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
It's not okay.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Do you have on?
Speaker 1 (01:58):
He had on a green dresser, hair was down and long,
and she had all this just tremendously beautiful colored lipstick.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
She looked flawless.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
She has on a pink top with an unusual neckline.
To objection, you know, I'm color blind. So that's you're out,
because I've got a very unique banner that I made
up myself. Did he need a dip because he has
because he has for a bathroom break. I mean, I
(02:27):
couldn't ignore that.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
He did not ignore that.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Man man up.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh goodness goodness. Yeah, he pled guilty on all all
the charges. He's done nothing, he has, It's all over down.
I picked anybody hadn't cross be teened anybody? He didn't
you know, slip anybody some drugs they were aware of.
He's done nothing wrong, nothing at all. Now tell me
(02:52):
what you think of the latest in the courtroom. I
can't wait to hear this for did.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
He I same? You're referring to Sean Comes, hadn't they?
Y'all were on a nickname.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
Since you mean Buffy Puff Daddy.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
You know exactly how to drive me crazy, don't you.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
It's one of my favorite things to do.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
But listen, now, I don't know that much about what's
going on except he has plaied not guilty. I have
been so busy this week. I've had visitors from the
State Department. I have had training. I've had simulator training,
so I have been a little out of pocket simulator training.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
What's that?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
Listen?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
It is a screened floor to ceiling where you are
put in real life scenarios where you're told there's.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
An incident going on in a bar, and when.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
You walk into the bar, people pop up and it
could either be the perpetrator or a victim.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
So you've got to decide to split second shoot, don't you.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
We've been doing that at Laser Tag for a really
long time, since the twins were like seven yet you
want me? Okay whatever, you're in to the simulator room.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Okay, yeah, it's fabulous.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I can just see Lucy right now with you and
John David does come into order of that poor thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I never scared a little Lucy. She's my little flower.
I love her so much. Why is it so different
with boys and girls? And when people first told me that,
I thought they were being stereotypical, that they were just
putting that on girls when it wasn't true. It's really true.
Raising them is so different. And I think I figured
out why girls think boys just like food, basketball, food Fortnite,
(04:32):
food basketball. But that's that's it. Girls actually have thoughts.
That's the difference. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
That is a great little summation, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Okay, other than your simulating training, did you get some
kind of a badge or certification for that?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
No, it's just training in a you know, in departmental.
But I'll tell you what I did get to do.
The State Department had a delegation from Kerk'smenistan, which was
a country I was not familiar with, so I had
to do a lot of research. They have a horse
that is their country's symbol. Basically, that is the most
(05:12):
gorgeous horse I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
They called it a golden horse.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So they were extremely interested in mounted patrol. Here, they
were interested in wildlife crimes, and then they were interested
in cold cases.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
So that's why they selected to meet with me.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
I had a fantastic time talking with them and learn
just as much from them. But the remarkable thing is
they brought me a purse, and this purse almost looks
like a Persian rug. It is gorgeous, just as a
thank you for taking the time to meet with them.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Okay, that's wonderful. I don't care your purse. I stuff
everything in my braw so I could beat hands free
when I want their housing projects. Can we talk about
the law, because I'm very uncomfortable talking about perse Is
style fashion I know nothing about it. I would like
to talk about something I'm actually interested in, and that
would either be my children, your children, children in general,
(06:10):
or murder that's pretty or recipes. Those are really the
only things I'm interested in.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Well, you know, I don't care a person either, same
reason I need my hands free.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
But what do you see as the biggest obstacle for
the prosecution with Diddy, if any, the.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Biggest obstacle right now would be I was on a
to be let's just say get together yesterday with Harvey
Levin from TMZ and Mark Gergez and I call them
both on They kept referring to the victims as ex girlfriends,
(06:48):
and I got to thinking about it. I think that's
going to be a problem. Not that they are ex girlfriends.
That's not the problem. The problem is the way it's
going to be portrayed, like, oh, they were girlfriends, they
broke up in a snit, and this is a retaliation
that says jealousy. It's a scorn. If they didn't consent
(07:12):
to what was happening, why they stay in it. And
also there's gonna be the issue of Sean Combs's likability.
I've never been up close to Combs, ever been around Combs,
but apparently he has some magnetic and charismatic personality even
if he does not take the stand. That translates to gen.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Mars agreed, yep.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
And he's famous. Whether they know him or like him
or a fan, they still know of him. And I
think people like a Carnival Barker, they're gonna want to
see it. They can't turn away from it. And I
think some of the jurors are going to be enthralled
with what all is happening.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I'm worried about that. And I'll tell you who
had a huge likability factory. You know, our friend Renee
rock Wills like that. She has just a charisma about her.
You have that charisma to me. I think that Johnny
Cochranton is a perfect example. He could walk into a room.
(08:16):
It was like moth to a flame. Women wanted to
be with him, men wanted to be him. He just
has an it factor. And I think that that persuaded
Judge Eto and the jury because a lot of what
Johnny said is not the law. But you know, he
has a way. He had a way of turning the
(08:36):
facts in the law. And you know, here's the thing.
When you like somebody, you want to go along with them.
You want to believe what they're saying. You want to
agree with him. There were some defense attorneys that were
so wiley had gotten away with Okay, here you go.
(08:57):
Here's a great example. I won't not say who it is,
but you might remember this. A defense Atorney in Inner
City Atlanta constantly worked out. I swear I thought he's
on steroids because he had to have his pants specially
tailored because they were so fie, like a boy sized pants.
In his chest was like a big barrel, constantly working out. Again,
(09:20):
I think he's on stereot stories. I'd been on like
wife number eight anyway, and at number three I can
blame them right the other party until you get to
like three or four. Now, first thing, I go, oh,
that was a start of marriage. Just that doesn't count
with a big mistake. Then the second one, when that
falls apart, that's believable too, because you're like, well, maybe
(09:44):
they were abusive, maybe they ran through all the money,
maybe they were mean to the stepchild. But when you
get to the third one, you're starting to think, okay, now,
wait a minute, wait a minute, the third fourth, except
of course, Elizabeth Taylor. He's perfect, Okay, wasn't her fault?
And Martha Ray and Martha Ray perfect. But back to
(10:05):
the defense lawyer. So there was a I guess I
played a rayment calendar, and this defense attorney's lawyer, his
client didn't show up. It was getting the end of
the calendar, and I kept saying, okay, he's going to
get bond forfeited, which means he loses his bond and
gets arrested the minute he spotted and he goes, no,
(10:26):
he'll come, he'll come. I'm like, okay, great, well, let's
just wait till the end of the day. By the
end of the day, the guy hadn't shown that. I'm like, okay,
he's going to get a bond forfeit. It was just
like everybody else. The guy goes he's out in the hall.
The defense lawyer went out in the hall and brought
in a defendant. I'm like, great, let's do to the arrayment.
I went and got the file. I went up to
the podium to take you know, to read him his
(10:49):
charges and let him play one way or the other,
and you know, then it would be several ways before
trial calendar or longer. When I opened the file, which
was unusual, there happened to be the right there on
the front at normally was in a folder in the back.
And I looked down, I looked up. I went what
that wasn't his client? He had either paid or gotten
(11:13):
a guy out in the hall to come in and
pretend to be the defendant. And if I hadn't seen
the picture, no one would have noticed.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
From that point on, that was just one of many
of his sneaky tricks. From that point on, every time
I saw him, I'm like, Oh, my stars, here he comes.
Here comes a BS right now. I never believed another
thing he said. On the other hand, there are people,
and I'll tell you one was like Brian Steele, who
was representing dedde Right now. I would see Brian Steele
(11:44):
walking down the court. There'd be a long haul coming
leading up to the courtroom. I go, oh, here come Stele,
And I knew that everything would go smoothly. He'd be prepared,
he'd be pleasant, and I didn't know if it was
going to be ended up being a trial, a not guilty,
a guilty. He might give me some facts I didn't
(12:04):
already know, which might change my opinion. But that's the
way I felt when I would say, Brian's Steel coming.
See what I mean, absolutely, And I think that these
lawyers are like that. That one is Brian Steele. He
just has a way in the courtroom that's likable. And
(12:24):
I'm telling you that makes people more amenable to what
they're saying, whether what they're saying is correct or it's
the law or not. So that's a concern because they've
got a lot of very likable, charismatic lawyers.
Speaker 4 (12:41):
How could a beautiful, young first grade teacher be stabbed
twenty times, including in the bat, allegedly die of suicide? Yes,
that was a medical examiner's official ruling after a closed
door meeting. He first named it a homicide. Why what
happened to Ellen Greenberg? A huge American miscarriage of justice.
(13:06):
For an in depth look at the facts, see what
Happened to Ellen on Amazon? All proceeds to the National
Center for Missing and Exploited Children.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Well, I think the prosecution is going to have to
do exactly what you just laid out. They're going to
have to look at that jury and say, you know what,
three or four of these women might have got together
and made something up to come after you know, the accused.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
But one hundred and twenty, well, a lot of those.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Are the cases that are not going to come into
similar transactions. The only way some of them will come
in is if good character is brought in by the defense,
you know, like if you're getting tried for armed robbery again,
and I as a prosecutor go, oh yeah, and she's
got plenty of drug disorderlies. I can't say that that
(14:03):
brings in your character for no probative reason.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
The only reason a lot of those civil.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Actions could come in is if good characters brought in
by the defense. They can't just bring in everything comes
has ever been charged with, so it's limited. There's not
that many victims coming in. The thing they've got going
for them is they've got the cassive interiitate, which shows
(14:32):
that what was happening in that room was not consensual.
They have witnesses, thoses are going to be subjected to
a very searing cross exam like were you paid had
you been on an HBO documentary? Did you get paid
for that by the way they did? You know, It's
that kind of thing can ruin your case. But I
(14:53):
agree with you, Cheryl, with that many witnesses are they
all lying and Chilen comes to the only one telling
the truth.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Because here's the reality of those twelve jurors sitting there.
They probably have at least three breakups in their life.
How many of those people came back at you, how
many accused you of something so heinous that you didn't do?
Probably of the jurors, maybe one had somebody say something
(15:23):
about them, not this many, not this horrible. And again,
he's been famous a long long time, he's been rich
a long long time. So if that was their motive
to lie about somebody to try to get money from them,
they sure waited a long time.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, they really did. And another thing that I think
that's fabloid joining us as a legal consultant. Shut up David.
I had to know David was somewhere in the vicinity
because the dog came running through. That usually predeceases either me,
David Lucy or John David. Do you see the dog
run through first? Okay, I don't know who's going to
(16:04):
run by next? Okay? Where was I Cheryl? Oh? Why
wait this long? Why not call police at the time.
That's an age old tried and t line across examination.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
And it works, it does sometimes.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
But I think if they get the right maybe even
expert witness to explain they were given drugs where they
didn't have a good memory. It was all fuzzy, but
they knew something horrible happened. They knew they didn't consent
to it. But their testimony would have been limited because
of what was done to them.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Somehow, the state is going to have to explain the
phenomena of women not coming forward when they have been raped,
why they don't come forward? I remember, do you remember
Emmanuel Hammond's kill Teliet Life.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Absolutely, there were.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Similar transactions in that case. One was a lady that
in her culture it was a huge embarrassment to have
been raped, and she had never even told her husband,
and all she would allow the prosecutor to say was
(17:22):
that Emmanuel Hammond's had kidnapped her, beaten her up, tied
her up, and thrown her in his courch trunk, which
is exactly what they did to Julie Love and others.
But she made it clear her husband was sitting out
in the audience that if she was asked, were you raped,
which she was, she would say no. So there's it's
(17:44):
very complicated, very complicated. That's what they're going to have
to explain. Why they thought they'd lose their job, why
they thought they would be blackballed out of the entertainment
industry by one of the most powerful figures in the
entertainment industry, why they didn't come forward, and how they
got the courage to come forward and Cassie Venture spoke up.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
That's right, exactly right, and there was the video, so
now they knew people would believe them because there's.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Prow Yeah, Garret gar said something really interesting and I
had heard this before, but it jogged my memory. Many
people have been stating that Cassie was running down that
hallway away from comes because he was forcing her back
into a freak off. What they are going to argue
the defense is that she was angry because she saw
someone else had texted him another woman, and was angry
(18:35):
and left. That's not gonna watch. She was trying to leave,
he came back. He beat her, gut kicked her, kicked
her in the head, and dragged her back. So I
don't think that's gonna work. But that's what they're going
to claim as to why she was leaving.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Okay, let's say she left because she was angry and jealous.
He chased her down in a towel, so he was naked,
He beat her, drug her. Why would he be that
angry because she's jealous?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Exactly. You know, that's a bunch of men for you
coming up with that one. But you know, I don't
know what they have in their back of tricks, but
we'll find out soon enough. I thought that vodyre jury
selection would yield a little bit more evidence as to
where they're coming from on the defense. M I did
(19:28):
learn that they're claiming all this was consensual, that did
he was just just a swinger, don't ike mean because
I'm a swinger, And that there was a lot of
volunteering use of the drugs and alcohol. That's where they're
coming from. What else can they do.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
It's going to be one of those things where they're
going to have to explain it could have been consensual
up until it wasn't. And I could go to his house,
I could go to a party, I could drink alcohol,
even do a line of cocaine. But the minute you
render me helpless, unconscious, that's where everything took a turn.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
So they're masking I know how to do this. I
know how to violate women.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Where they can't testify against me. It's just like the
Daybreak drug.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
We got a little bit of knowledge from the vodier.
That's your re selection. I won't see more. As soon
as they begin, you'll start seeing the shape of what
the defense is going to be. Of course, an opening
statement and through the cross examination of witnesses.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I'm curious who's going.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
To be giving the openings, how that's going to play out.
The way they're doing for a dyer is really interesting
in inner city Atlanta, and whenever I was part of
a case with the Feds, we would have either open
strikes or silence strikes. Open strikes are as a general
(20:58):
or the whole panel standing. A juror would stand up
and this says, after what I are questioning. The judge
would say, jurre number one, and of course the state
has to go first, and I typically would take nearly
all the jurors. There wouldn't be very many that I
would strike, because the defense would have twenty strikes and
(21:22):
I would have ten, and we would have a jerry
paddle of you know, one hundred or more people. And
I don't like getting off on the wrong foot by
rejecting people. You have to be really like a convicted
felon for me to strike you. And I would say
in open court, the state accepts the Lady Gerard, or
(21:43):
I'd say the state respectfully releases the Lady Gerard. All right,
you go through like that, or typically the defense might
want silence strikes it takes a lot longer, which the
clerk of the court comes over and gets a piece
of paper and it says jar one, and you accept,
(22:05):
the state accepts, or the state rejects, and they hand
the piece of paper in silence to the defense and
they take it up to the judge. And so the
jars never know who is striking you. So I like
for everything to be open and above board. I don't
like silence strikes. That's the way it's going to happen
here Friday. Today, the jurors are not coming back to
(22:28):
the courtroom. The lawyers and the judge, the calendar, the
court reporter will be there and they are selecting the
jury without the jury even being there today, the twelve
germors and I think six alternates. I think they need more.
Remember Scott Peterson. The jury and the alternates will be
called over the weekend and told okay, you're in.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Okay, Well here we go. And I think it's only
going to last a couple of weeks, don't you.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I think it'll be dragged out. How do you say
a couple of weeks?
Speaker 1 (23:01):
I just think they're going to be very direct, and
those witnesses are going to be up and down. I
think everybody's anticipating so wicked names coming out, but I
haven't heard anything that's going to just set this thing
on its tail.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
I haven't. Okay, I'll see you Corn, all right, baby?
Have you Mother's Day?
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You too, Dear bike,
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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