August 30, 2024 • 26 mins
Nancy and Sheryl discuss the devastating disappearance of 28-year-old Mamta Bhatt, a young mother from Virginia, whose troubling marriage and isolation from her family in Nepal raise suspicions. Together they dissect details about the ongoing investigation, including the disturbing forensic evidence found in Mamta's home and her husband's evasive behavior. Sheryl and Nancy also discuss the challenges of prosecuting "no body" cases, drawing on examples like Julie Love and Jennifer Dulos to illustrate how justice can be pursued even in the absence of a body.
Show Notes:
- (0:00) Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- (0:30) Sheryl introduces case of 28 year old missing Mamta Bhatt
- (2:00) Nancy details Mamta's disappearance
- (4:40) “What is so critical, there are two things that go together. Timelines and patterns. When you are putting together your timeline, and you see a pattern that has been broken. That should be highlighted. You do not move from that broken pattern.”
- (7:00) Evidence of blood stains found in Mamta’s home
- (8:45) Comparison to Jennifer Dulos case and forensic evidence
- (10:00) The husband's statements and timeline inconsistencies
- (14:00) Concerns for baby Nima's future without her mother
- (15:30) Legal perspectives on the no body no crime defense
- (17:45) Julie Love case: A no-body murder
- (23:00) Final thoughts on Mamta's case
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Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms - https://www.crimeonline.com/
Connect with Nancy:
X: @nancygrace
Instagram: @thenancygrace
Facebook: @nancygrace
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice.
Connect with Sheryl:
Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Y'all, welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum
and I'm joined as always by the Queen herself, Nancy Grace. Hey, honey,
let me tell you something. I was listening to you
on Merritt Street and there is a missing mom, MAMDA
and her friend was talking to you and she said, yes,
(00:30):
her husband, he's just tone death. And you said, and
I quote, I think you're kind and gracious. I'm not so, honey.
Let's get to talking about this poor missing mom.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You know, Cheryl, I just I worry because I've covered
so many cases of missing people and unsolved homicides, and
I don't want mom to or any other person to
get lost in the sea of crime victims. And it's hard,
(01:03):
it's hard to keep going, and sometimes it's hard to hear.
And I would tell yourrs that because sometimes there'd be evidence, Cheryl,
as you will know that, they would like wins physically
WinCE or recoil or look away from a picture. And
it's the same thing here. It's almost like an what
(01:25):
never ending wave. It comes and it comes, and it
comes like the ocean, and once one goes away, there's
another wave right behind it. I don't want mom to
bot to be lost in all of that. Mam Toa
is and I'm saying is because I want to believe
(01:47):
she's still alive. The evidence tells me otherwise. Mom to
Bought is a gorgeous twenty eight year old Virginia mother
near Manassas and she's the pediatric nurse, very devoted. The
rest of her family lives in Nepall. So there's nobody
(02:08):
and that's important. I'm sure you're gonna jump in a
minute explain why that's important. There's no support for her.
And I have a friend, Brian Fitzgibbons, who runs the
National Security Service National something Security Service. He got into
her Facebook and was looking at it and she, oh, oh,
(02:29):
this makes me angry and upset. All at the same time,
she has no support here, and she was on this
anonymous Facebook chat talking about I don't have family here
in town. My husband tells me if I try to leave,
he's going to take the baby and I will never
(02:50):
see the baby again. I don't have a lawyer, I
don't know anything about custody. Now hold on, wait for it.
Then she has this baby shower. Not long after that,
the baby hadn't even turned one yet. Mamta does not
show up at her job as a pediatric nurse. Her
friends that threw her the baby shower. The baby shower
(03:13):
friends get together, they start searching for mom to not
the husband. Police go at their urging, does a welfare check,
and the husband explains it all the way. Oh, she
does this all the time, the same all blah blah blah,
she's having some me time. B s Cheryl. She gave
(03:36):
up working full time to be with the baby. She
worked a few days a week as the pediatric nurse.
She would never have left baby niema. So a husband's
full of crap and the police, you know, bought it
and left out. That's what we've been told. Police may
have a very different story once they speak. So I
(03:58):
don't want to trash the cops because they went to
the home, whatever was said at that time, they believed
everything seemed fine. They left Cheryl. After that, various people
on networks go to try to speak to the husband.
After we do it first on crime stories. He won't
give a statement, he won't look for her, He makes
(04:22):
all sorts of odd comments. But after that, I think
police realize something's very off killed her. This is why
all the baby shaw O friends are out literally searching
for her, putting in flyers, using their own money to
try to find her. I guess you want to talk
about the forensic cabinets that has just recently been uncovered.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
But before that, what is so critical. There are two
things that go together, timelines and patterns. When you are
putting together your timeline and you see a pattern that
has been broken that should be highlighted, you do not
move from that broken pattern. And what we have here
(05:06):
is a daughter that calls her mama every morning and
every evening and those calls stopped. That is the broken
pattern that concerns me more than anything else. And when
you're looking at the timeline, like you said, her co
workers are concerned, not her husband. Her co workers are
(05:27):
calling the police, not her husband. When they show up
and say, hey, she missed, you know, her work day
at the hospital, He's like, no, no, everything's good, everything's fine,
and they leave, but they don't see her, they don't
talk to her. And again there's that timeline that's got
a broken pattern.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
This woman is in touch with her mother and family
even though they are in that Paul as so many
of these women, she may not tell the family, Hey,
I've got problems at huh, because somehow batter women believe
that reflects on them. They don't have the perfect home.
They picked to the wrong person, it's their fault. Well,
(06:10):
none of that is true. In the last days, police
conduct a search of the home and song was too
much to even say. And they find a pink stain
in the carpet. When they move the bed in the
master bedroom, they find a larger quantity of blood. I've
(06:32):
been told when I see police taking your bathtub out
of your home, you got a problem. They apparently find
blood in the calking c a U l ki ng
the calking between the bathtub and the wall, you know,
(06:55):
to fill up that little space so water won't go
down and write out your wood or your wall. They
find blood there that's obviously invisible to the naked eye
because they had to use a blue star kit similar
to luminol. I don't know what else they found, but
I know that much, and they are stating sources are stating,
(07:19):
not official police comment, but sources are saying that police
found evidence of a drag mark, which I assume is
going to be the pink stain. They're talking about that
her body was dragged. Of course, that kicks off an
entire scenario. It's a you know, a chain of investigative technique.
(07:42):
They then go to one nearby Walmart, where they discover
the husband, nash but buys a set of three knives.
One of those knives is found in the home. How
can you get lose two knives in five days? Those
two knives are missing, which is problematic and foreboding. Then
(08:05):
they find him on other Walmart security surveillance buying a
trove of cleaning supplies. If you ever see David Lynch buying.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Tarps and ammonia, you know what, rubber gloves, You go
straight to the police, straight straight, don't even call, go
there and lie on the front steps until somebody will
listen to you and Nancy.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
The other thing about that stain is it is large
enough that would suggest that much blood loss is not
something you could recover from.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Well, it reminds me of the missing Connecticut Mama five
Jennifer DilOS Potus Delos or poc. Husband obviously killed Jennifer
and got rid of her body, and then he and
his girlfriend, his mistress, Michelle Traconis went all over town
getting rid of bloody clothing, bloody rags, bloody bra you
(09:10):
name it. In I forgot how many trash receptacles over
five throwing away blood evidence. Then police did an incredible job.
They put together a video and photographic montage from home
surveillance video of other people's homes, ring doorbell cams, traffic,
(09:33):
red light cameras, stop sign cameras, even when a public
bus door opens. They get the video and they see
photos delos flying by where he's in an employees car
that he just took. Then he changes out the seat
in the back car of a vehicle. He takes the
(09:57):
employees vehicle and gets it details and washed on that
seat that he replaced, Jennifer's hair and blood is found.
So you see him as that bus door opens, flying
by on the way to the detail shop. Then they
pick him up on the survellance video at the detailed
(10:17):
shop getting the car detailed and cleaned out. But there's
still tray evans left behind. So in this case, I
started with Jennifer Dilla's large quantity of blood found in
her garage, an amount that would indicate there was a
fatal injury because you could not survive losing that much blood,
(10:40):
copious amounts of blood.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know, you look at this case with Mamta and
the husband, it meant, hey, we had dinner, everything was great,
everything was normal. He's the lord normal. But then he
never talks about they went to bed, they put the
baby to bed, they got up the next morning, had
breakfast and coffee or whatever. He never talks about her
getting ready for work. He never talks about her leaving
(11:09):
the house again. But again he never called police. And
the timeline is pretty tight.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Nancy.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
On the twenty fourth, she's telling a buddy, hey, we're
having some trouble in the marriage. On the twenty seven,
she misses work. By the thirtieth rolls around, you know,
she's not talking to her mama anymore. Well, again, law
enforcement starts working backwards, and they find out that even
on the twenty eighth, her friends from the baby shower
(11:39):
are already really concerned. And then the husband says, oh, no, no,
I saw her on the thirty first. Well that doesn't
add up. If she's not talking to her mama and
she ain't talking to her friends, she ain't talking to you.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I was just reading and watching everything I could about
Naudia and about mom To and making phone calls. I
found out that Nadia Navarro she tells me that she
took mom to shopping one day, and I don't mean
for a shopping extravaganza out of town. They were just
going less than twenty minutes from the house to the
(12:15):
grocery store that had spices so she could do her
in Nepalese cooking and so they were going to a
special spice store and the husband, Narish Bat, called Nadia.
I think she said at least twenty times in the
space of you know, a few minutes, screaming at her,
(12:39):
haranguing her on the phone, ordering her to turn the
car around and bring mom to back. And Nadia Navarro
did not turn the car around. Now, I don't know
what hell mom to pay, mom To had to pay
when she got back home for going to the grocery store,
but apparently that happened. I have no reason to disbelieve,
(13:00):
not in Novorro. I'm just thinking about what kind of
life mam Toa was leading, and now she won't be
there to bring up her baby girl. She will be
raised without her mother.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And you know, Nancy, we've seen this play out over
and over and over, and friends notice it. If Lucy
and David walk in the house this afternoon and you go, hey,
how was practice. The way they answer you, you immediately
know are they okay or not. They don't have to
say much, they don't have to do much. You know,
(13:37):
her mama the last time she talked to her, said
she just didn't seem happy.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Having troubles at home, having no one to turn to,
reaching out on an anonymous Facebook site about not knowing
what to do and know where to time, just thinking
about what she lived through and her single biggest fear
I think was being taken away from baby Nima.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
No doubt. And you know, you also wonder did he
do some of the classic things? Well, one he moved
her away from her family to another country. I doubt
she had access to her passport. I doubt she had
access to their money. I doubt she had access to,
you know, have a credit card or to get a
plane ticket home. And you look at these things and you,
(14:28):
just like you said, you wonder what hell she was
living through before what we believe is her murder.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And so now this is interesting and I expect it
to change now, not each spot has been charged with
tampering or concealing a human body, but not murder. I mean,
how can you have one without the other. I think
the blood evidence will carry the day. I've also been
(14:59):
told that baby Nima is with friends of the mom.
Mom to his mother is trying to get here from Nepal,
and she'll probably end up taking Nima back home to Nepal.
Would be my guests, right.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I like the fact they've charged him with something, get
him in jail. And I say this all the time,
and I'm gonna say it again. The investigation does not
stop and arrest. They're gonna keep working. And when I hear,
you know, his defense attorney say, well, there's no body, like,
there's gonna be no case here. You don't need a body.
(15:39):
And second of all, in the words of Nazy Grace,
we're not going to reward him for being a good criminal.
Just because we have not been able to find her
yet doesn't mean we're not going to.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You know, there have been a lot of nobody cases,
but here's the thing. They're difficult to prove and sometimes
they don't happen. To look at Stacy Peterson. Stacy Peterson
was killed by Drew Peterson. He's convicted of killing his
third wife, Kathleen Savio. She was found dead and beaten
(16:13):
in a bone dry bathtub. But since Drew Peterson was
a police officer her cod it was determined was accidental
cause of death drowning in the bathtub. Okay. She was
later exhumed and murder was proven. Now he's in jail
for that. Gee, I wonder what happened to Stacy. So
(16:36):
that has never been prosecuted because there's not a body.
I can tell you where she is. She's in a cooler,
a blue and white cooler at the bottom of the water.
That's where she is. But we don't have her body,
so it hasn't been prosecuted. Then you've got Susanne Morphew.
Her body has just been found and still no prosecution.
But there have been many, many cases where women were
(17:01):
not found. Crystal Rogers is another example. Her case went
uncharged for years, her body still has not been found,
and her fiance, Brooks Hawk, has just been charged. And
that's only because his idiot co defendants blabbed on the phone,
and you know, their phone calls came to light about
(17:22):
moving her car and everything else they did in furtherance
of the crime. So it's very difficult at times to
prove a nobody case. Can I remind you of Julie Love.
That's the case you'll probably remember absolutely she was murdered.
She was a preschool physical therapy and movement teacher in kindergarten.
(17:48):
I believe it was just just as cute as the
day is long. She was on her way home from
a meeting back it's the summer of nineteen eighty eight,
round and her little Mustang and she started walking. Now,
the car was about halfway between her boyfriend's home and
a gas station, so people believe cops thought she set
(18:12):
out for one of those two places, but no one
ever reported seeing her, and the purpose saw her, followed
her and grabbed her. Everyone at first suspected the boyfriend,
and I of course went and met with the district
attorney and I said, you know, why aren't we indicting
the boyfriend and goes, well, well, just gonna wait. Well
(18:32):
Slaton of course was right, because years later they felt
they couldn't approve the case without a body. Years later,
a woman gets beaten within an inch of her life
and she the boyfriend, gets arrested. While he's in jail,
she says, Okay, I've got something. I've got something to
keep in jail. They go what she says, he killed
(18:54):
heally Love, and they're what. So they go to the
location where she says the body was thrown by dumps
her way out in the middle of nowhere, and guess
what they find. Julie loves glass eye. You would never
have even known Julie was wearing a glass eye, but
she was just like the other eye. And they found that.
(19:19):
I believe they found some bones. And what happened was
the Purp and his gang were driving along. They see
Julie Love. They go, let's get that girl. They pull over.
She runs toward another house and acts like she's going in,
and they wait her out and while she comes back around,
they grab her, rape or rape or rape or raper
(19:39):
and then kill her. Nobody no case until they got
that glass eye here.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
You got that's right, and Hammon's got lethal injection. Nancy,
I was in college when that happened, And.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I was in preschool there. In fact, I don't
think I was even born yet. I was in college.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Go ahead, Well, not that I'm that much younger.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Than that your implications are lost on me because they
are not gerald them. Well in high school when that
happened and you had already graduated from law school, go ahead,
let me be transparent.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It wasn't because I should have been, but it took
me a little longer graduate because I didn't exactly go
full time.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
As Cheryl McCollum and put it. Let me be transparent earth, Okay,
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Because I want to be even more transparent than usual.
So it was. It was one of those things in
the criminal justice department they wanted us to, like pass
out flyers, reminding people, you know, check your old, check
your tires, like, don't run out of gas, Like there's
things you can absolutely do to maybe prevent what happened
(20:59):
to Julie and Will was a horrible, horrible crime.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Nobody, no case. And it wasn't until Emanuel Hammond's was
behind bars for armed robbery some other felony and his
girlfriend ratted him out.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, that's what the defense attorney has already said in
Monty's case, nobody, no crime. But it's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Nancy, especially not when they match that blood up to her.
They're gonna get her DNA, or if they can't find
her DNA in the home, they can compare it to
the DNA of the baby and you'll get mitochondrial DNA
that way, a DNA match through that. So once that
blood matches up to mama, which it will, we will
(21:42):
have enough of a quantity of blood to prove that
she could not have lived. That taken with the totality
of the circumstances, will result in a murder charge.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I guarantee you law enforcement is on that timeline
right now, because between the twenty four and the thirty first,
he didn't go to work because he was by himself
having to take care of that baby, or took the
baby to some babysitter. But that there'll be evidence of
that as well.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
You know another thing about in any spot, he kept
telling everybody that he was with the army, which he was,
and that he still had top secret security clearance. Ladies,
when a guy starts telling you about all of his
covert activities, you pull a covert activity, get up from
the restaurant table, go to the bathroom and leave. Run
(22:37):
run as if you had seen a monster. All of
his secret service, top security my rear end know he
was just a bully in the home and now Mamta
is dead.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
That was so powerful. I was letting you just hang
there because it's absolutely the truth.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And you know what, can ask, when did you ever
let anything just hang there?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Never?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So obviously you're like having lunch or something in the background.
I can't see you.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, I'll tell you. The last time I had something
hanging there is when you told me that's a danglar participle. Eden.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Well, somebody had to tell you, Cheryl. I'm your friend.
I felt I had to tell you.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Well, listen, I heard that danglar participle is how you
get a pregnant Pauls. So be careful.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
You have been waiting to use that on me. I
know that you lay and wait, waiting, waiting for the
right moment to pounce. Hey, question, Cheryl, how long till
they charge him with murder?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Less than a week?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Hm? Does Virginia have the death penalty? Oh? They don't.
July twenty twenty one, Virginia twenty third state in the
Union to completely do away with the death penalty. Okay,
whoever voted for that. You can take him home to
your house because he will get out that will have.
And you know, another aspect of this is Niema will
(24:04):
probably be taken to Nepal to be raised by her grandma,
and she will have no memory of mom to.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's the saddest thing of all, isn't it? As much
as she loved that baby, those adorable selfish she takes
with her in the background.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Over what a trip to the spice door, I mean, yeah,
to cook for his sorry behind. I'm just waiting to
see it all unfold. I just don't want her to
get lost in the sea of victims that we cover
every day. I don't want that for any crime victim.
But you know, Cheryl, I've told so many women when
(24:44):
I was a volunteer at the batter Women's Center, aunt
to today, when you first realize that, when you confront
the reality that there is violence in your home, it's
not getting any better. It will must likely get worse.
Those are the statistics. It's not just my fabricated warning,
(25:06):
it's real. Those are the statistics. If you want to
save yourself, but more important, your children, you have to
get out and never go back.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It's never going to get better.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And I know that's not what any person would choose
to break up their home and leave. But the alternative
is much worse, much worse, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
He will love you to death.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I don't know what love has to do with it.
I'll just meet you with one cliche after the next.
But I just hate it from Mom to and her
family and Nima and the feeling of helplessness the mother
must feel coming from Nepal making that journey. Just sick
in her heart, knowing that Mom has gone, wanting to
(25:52):
believe she's still alive, the anxiety of not knowing it's
going to be torture for her, and I just pray
for her and the baby.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is the Crime Roundup with
zones Heaven. Mm hmm
Y'all, welcome to the Crime Round Up. I'm Cheryl McCollum
and I'm joined as always by the Queen herself, Nancy Grace. Hey, honey,
let me tell you something. I was listening to you
on Merritt Street and there is a missing mom, MAMDA
and her friend was talking to you and she said, yes,
(00:30):
her husband, he's just tone death. And you said, and
I quote, I think you're kind and gracious. I'm not so, honey.
Let's get to talking about this poor missing mom.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
You know, Cheryl, I just I worry because I've covered
so many cases of missing people and unsolved homicides, and
I don't want mom to or any other person to
get lost in the sea of crime victims. And it's hard,
(01:03):
it's hard to keep going, and sometimes it's hard to hear.
And I would tell yourrs that because sometimes there'd be evidence, Cheryl,
as you will know that, they would like wins physically
WinCE or recoil or look away from a picture. And
it's the same thing here. It's almost like an what
(01:25):
never ending wave. It comes and it comes, and it
comes like the ocean, and once one goes away, there's
another wave right behind it. I don't want mom to
bot to be lost in all of that. Mam Toa
is and I'm saying is because I want to believe
(01:47):
she's still alive. The evidence tells me otherwise. Mom to
Bought is a gorgeous twenty eight year old Virginia mother
near Manassas and she's the pediatric nurse, very devoted. The
rest of her family lives in Nepall. So there's nobody
(02:08):
and that's important. I'm sure you're gonna jump in a
minute explain why that's important. There's no support for her.
And I have a friend, Brian Fitzgibbons, who runs the
National Security Service National something Security Service. He got into
her Facebook and was looking at it and she, oh, oh,
(02:29):
this makes me angry and upset. All at the same time,
she has no support here, and she was on this
anonymous Facebook chat talking about I don't have family here
in town. My husband tells me if I try to leave,
he's going to take the baby and I will never
(02:50):
see the baby again. I don't have a lawyer, I
don't know anything about custody. Now hold on, wait for it.
Then she has this baby shower. Not long after that,
the baby hadn't even turned one yet. Mamta does not
show up at her job as a pediatric nurse. Her
friends that threw her the baby shower. The baby shower
(03:13):
friends get together, they start searching for mom to not
the husband. Police go at their urging, does a welfare check,
and the husband explains it all the way. Oh, she
does this all the time, the same all blah blah blah,
she's having some me time. B s Cheryl. She gave
(03:36):
up working full time to be with the baby. She
worked a few days a week as the pediatric nurse.
She would never have left baby niema. So a husband's
full of crap and the police, you know, bought it
and left out. That's what we've been told. Police may
have a very different story once they speak. So I
(03:58):
don't want to trash the cops because they went to
the home, whatever was said at that time, they believed
everything seemed fine. They left Cheryl. After that, various people
on networks go to try to speak to the husband.
After we do it first on crime stories. He won't
give a statement, he won't look for her, He makes
(04:22):
all sorts of odd comments. But after that, I think
police realize something's very off killed her. This is why
all the baby shaw O friends are out literally searching
for her, putting in flyers, using their own money to
try to find her. I guess you want to talk
about the forensic cabinets that has just recently been uncovered.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
But before that, what is so critical. There are two
things that go together, timelines and patterns. When you are
putting together your timeline and you see a pattern that
has been broken that should be highlighted, you do not
move from that broken pattern. And what we have here
(05:06):
is a daughter that calls her mama every morning and
every evening and those calls stopped. That is the broken
pattern that concerns me more than anything else. And when
you're looking at the timeline, like you said, her co
workers are concerned, not her husband. Her co workers are
(05:27):
calling the police, not her husband. When they show up
and say, hey, she missed, you know, her work day
at the hospital, He's like, no, no, everything's good, everything's fine,
and they leave, but they don't see her, they don't
talk to her. And again there's that timeline that's got
a broken pattern.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
This woman is in touch with her mother and family
even though they are in that Paul as so many
of these women, she may not tell the family, Hey,
I've got problems at huh, because somehow batter women believe
that reflects on them. They don't have the perfect home.
They picked to the wrong person, it's their fault. Well,
(06:10):
none of that is true. In the last days, police
conduct a search of the home and song was too
much to even say. And they find a pink stain
in the carpet. When they move the bed in the
master bedroom, they find a larger quantity of blood. I've
(06:32):
been told when I see police taking your bathtub out
of your home, you got a problem. They apparently find
blood in the calking c a U l ki ng
the calking between the bathtub and the wall, you know,
(06:55):
to fill up that little space so water won't go
down and write out your wood or your wall. They
find blood there that's obviously invisible to the naked eye
because they had to use a blue star kit similar
to luminol. I don't know what else they found, but
I know that much, and they are stating sources are stating,
(07:19):
not official police comment, but sources are saying that police
found evidence of a drag mark, which I assume is
going to be the pink stain. They're talking about that
her body was dragged. Of course, that kicks off an
entire scenario. It's a you know, a chain of investigative technique.
(07:42):
They then go to one nearby Walmart, where they discover
the husband, nash but buys a set of three knives.
One of those knives is found in the home. How
can you get lose two knives in five days? Those
two knives are missing, which is problematic and foreboding. Then
(08:05):
they find him on other Walmart security surveillance buying a
trove of cleaning supplies. If you ever see David Lynch buying.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Tarps and ammonia, you know what, rubber gloves, You go
straight to the police, straight straight, don't even call, go
there and lie on the front steps until somebody will
listen to you and Nancy.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
The other thing about that stain is it is large
enough that would suggest that much blood loss is not
something you could recover from.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Well, it reminds me of the missing Connecticut Mama five
Jennifer DilOS Potus Delos or poc. Husband obviously killed Jennifer
and got rid of her body, and then he and
his girlfriend, his mistress, Michelle Traconis went all over town
getting rid of bloody clothing, bloody rags, bloody bra you
(09:10):
name it. In I forgot how many trash receptacles over
five throwing away blood evidence. Then police did an incredible job.
They put together a video and photographic montage from home
surveillance video of other people's homes, ring doorbell cams, traffic,
(09:33):
red light cameras, stop sign cameras, even when a public
bus door opens. They get the video and they see
photos delos flying by where he's in an employees car
that he just took. Then he changes out the seat
in the back car of a vehicle. He takes the
(09:57):
employees vehicle and gets it details and washed on that
seat that he replaced, Jennifer's hair and blood is found.
So you see him as that bus door opens, flying
by on the way to the detail shop. Then they
pick him up on the survellance video at the detailed
(10:17):
shop getting the car detailed and cleaned out. But there's
still tray evans left behind. So in this case, I
started with Jennifer Dilla's large quantity of blood found in
her garage, an amount that would indicate there was a
fatal injury because you could not survive losing that much blood,
(10:40):
copious amounts of blood.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
You know, you look at this case with Mamta and
the husband, it meant, hey, we had dinner, everything was great,
everything was normal. He's the lord normal. But then he
never talks about they went to bed, they put the
baby to bed, they got up the next morning, had
breakfast and coffee or whatever. He never talks about her
getting ready for work. He never talks about her leaving
(11:09):
the house again. But again he never called police. And
the timeline is pretty tight.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
Nancy.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
On the twenty fourth, she's telling a buddy, hey, we're
having some trouble in the marriage. On the twenty seven,
she misses work. By the thirtieth rolls around, you know,
she's not talking to her mama anymore. Well, again, law
enforcement starts working backwards, and they find out that even
on the twenty eighth, her friends from the baby shower
(11:39):
are already really concerned. And then the husband says, oh, no, no,
I saw her on the thirty first. Well that doesn't
add up. If she's not talking to her mama and
she ain't talking to her friends, she ain't talking to you.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I was just reading and watching everything I could about
Naudia and about mom To and making phone calls. I
found out that Nadia Navarro she tells me that she
took mom to shopping one day, and I don't mean
for a shopping extravaganza out of town. They were just
going less than twenty minutes from the house to the
(12:15):
grocery store that had spices so she could do her
in Nepalese cooking and so they were going to a
special spice store and the husband, Narish Bat, called Nadia.
I think she said at least twenty times in the
space of you know, a few minutes, screaming at her,
(12:39):
haranguing her on the phone, ordering her to turn the
car around and bring mom to back. And Nadia Navarro
did not turn the car around. Now, I don't know
what hell mom to pay, mom To had to pay
when she got back home for going to the grocery store,
but apparently that happened. I have no reason to disbelieve,
(13:00):
not in Novorro. I'm just thinking about what kind of
life mam Toa was leading, and now she won't be
there to bring up her baby girl. She will be
raised without her mother.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
And you know, Nancy, we've seen this play out over
and over and over, and friends notice it. If Lucy
and David walk in the house this afternoon and you go, hey,
how was practice. The way they answer you, you immediately
know are they okay or not. They don't have to
say much, they don't have to do much. You know,
(13:37):
her mama the last time she talked to her, said
she just didn't seem happy.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Having troubles at home, having no one to turn to,
reaching out on an anonymous Facebook site about not knowing
what to do and know where to time, just thinking
about what she lived through and her single biggest fear
I think was being taken away from baby Nima.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
No doubt. And you know, you also wonder did he
do some of the classic things? Well, one he moved
her away from her family to another country. I doubt
she had access to her passport. I doubt she had
access to their money. I doubt she had access to,
you know, have a credit card or to get a
plane ticket home. And you look at these things and you,
(14:28):
just like you said, you wonder what hell she was
living through before what we believe is her murder.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
And so now this is interesting and I expect it
to change now, not each spot has been charged with
tampering or concealing a human body, but not murder. I mean,
how can you have one without the other. I think
the blood evidence will carry the day. I've also been
(14:59):
told that baby Nima is with friends of the mom.
Mom to his mother is trying to get here from Nepal,
and she'll probably end up taking Nima back home to Nepal.
Would be my guests, right.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I like the fact they've charged him with something, get
him in jail. And I say this all the time,
and I'm gonna say it again. The investigation does not
stop and arrest. They're gonna keep working. And when I hear,
you know, his defense attorney say, well, there's no body, like,
there's gonna be no case here. You don't need a body.
(15:39):
And second of all, in the words of Nazy Grace,
we're not going to reward him for being a good criminal.
Just because we have not been able to find her
yet doesn't mean we're not going to.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
You know, there have been a lot of nobody cases,
but here's the thing. They're difficult to prove and sometimes
they don't happen. To look at Stacy Peterson. Stacy Peterson
was killed by Drew Peterson. He's convicted of killing his
third wife, Kathleen Savio. She was found dead and beaten
(16:13):
in a bone dry bathtub. But since Drew Peterson was
a police officer her cod it was determined was accidental
cause of death drowning in the bathtub. Okay. She was
later exhumed and murder was proven. Now he's in jail
for that. Gee, I wonder what happened to Stacy. So
(16:36):
that has never been prosecuted because there's not a body.
I can tell you where she is. She's in a cooler,
a blue and white cooler at the bottom of the water.
That's where she is. But we don't have her body,
so it hasn't been prosecuted. Then you've got Susanne Morphew.
Her body has just been found and still no prosecution.
But there have been many, many cases where women were
(17:01):
not found. Crystal Rogers is another example. Her case went
uncharged for years, her body still has not been found,
and her fiance, Brooks Hawk, has just been charged. And
that's only because his idiot co defendants blabbed on the phone,
and you know, their phone calls came to light about
(17:22):
moving her car and everything else they did in furtherance
of the crime. So it's very difficult at times to
prove a nobody case. Can I remind you of Julie Love.
That's the case you'll probably remember absolutely she was murdered.
She was a preschool physical therapy and movement teacher in kindergarten.
(17:48):
I believe it was just just as cute as the
day is long. She was on her way home from
a meeting back it's the summer of nineteen eighty eight,
round and her little Mustang and she started walking. Now,
the car was about halfway between her boyfriend's home and
a gas station, so people believe cops thought she set
(18:12):
out for one of those two places, but no one
ever reported seeing her, and the purpose saw her, followed
her and grabbed her. Everyone at first suspected the boyfriend,
and I of course went and met with the district
attorney and I said, you know, why aren't we indicting
the boyfriend and goes, well, well, just gonna wait. Well
(18:32):
Slaton of course was right, because years later they felt
they couldn't approve the case without a body. Years later,
a woman gets beaten within an inch of her life
and she the boyfriend, gets arrested. While he's in jail,
she says, Okay, I've got something. I've got something to
keep in jail. They go what she says, he killed
(18:54):
heally Love, and they're what. So they go to the
location where she says the body was thrown by dumps
her way out in the middle of nowhere, and guess
what they find. Julie loves glass eye. You would never
have even known Julie was wearing a glass eye, but
she was just like the other eye. And they found that.
(19:19):
I believe they found some bones. And what happened was
the Purp and his gang were driving along. They see
Julie Love. They go, let's get that girl. They pull over.
She runs toward another house and acts like she's going in,
and they wait her out and while she comes back around,
they grab her, rape or rape or rape or raper
(19:39):
and then kill her. Nobody no case until they got
that glass eye here.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
You got that's right, and Hammon's got lethal injection. Nancy,
I was in college when that happened, And.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Well, I was in preschool there. In fact, I don't
think I was even born yet. I was in college.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Go ahead, Well, not that I'm that much younger.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Than that your implications are lost on me because they
are not gerald them. Well in high school when that
happened and you had already graduated from law school, go ahead,
let me be transparent.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
It wasn't because I should have been, but it took
me a little longer graduate because I didn't exactly go
full time.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
As Cheryl McCollum and put it. Let me be transparent earth, Okay,
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Because I want to be even more transparent than usual.
So it was. It was one of those things in
the criminal justice department they wanted us to, like pass
out flyers, reminding people, you know, check your old, check
your tires, like, don't run out of gas, Like there's
things you can absolutely do to maybe prevent what happened
(20:59):
to Julie and Will was a horrible, horrible crime.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Nobody, no case. And it wasn't until Emanuel Hammond's was
behind bars for armed robbery some other felony and his
girlfriend ratted him out.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, that's what the defense attorney has already said in
Monty's case, nobody, no crime. But it's not gonna work.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Nancy, especially not when they match that blood up to her.
They're gonna get her DNA, or if they can't find
her DNA in the home, they can compare it to
the DNA of the baby and you'll get mitochondrial DNA
that way, a DNA match through that. So once that
blood matches up to mama, which it will, we will
(21:42):
have enough of a quantity of blood to prove that
she could not have lived. That taken with the totality
of the circumstances, will result in a murder charge.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And I guarantee you law enforcement is on that timeline
right now, because between the twenty four and the thirty first,
he didn't go to work because he was by himself
having to take care of that baby, or took the
baby to some babysitter. But that there'll be evidence of
that as well.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
You know another thing about in any spot, he kept
telling everybody that he was with the army, which he was,
and that he still had top secret security clearance. Ladies,
when a guy starts telling you about all of his
covert activities, you pull a covert activity, get up from
the restaurant table, go to the bathroom and leave. Run
(22:37):
run as if you had seen a monster. All of
his secret service, top security my rear end know he
was just a bully in the home and now Mamta
is dead.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
That was so powerful. I was letting you just hang
there because it's absolutely the truth.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And you know what, can ask, when did you ever
let anything just hang there?
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Never?
Speaker 2 (23:02):
So obviously you're like having lunch or something in the background.
I can't see you.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, I'll tell you. The last time I had something
hanging there is when you told me that's a danglar participle. Eden.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Well, somebody had to tell you, Cheryl. I'm your friend.
I felt I had to tell you.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Well, listen, I heard that danglar participle is how you
get a pregnant Pauls. So be careful.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
You have been waiting to use that on me. I
know that you lay and wait, waiting, waiting for the
right moment to pounce. Hey, question, Cheryl, how long till
they charge him with murder?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Less than a week?
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Hm? Does Virginia have the death penalty? Oh? They don't.
July twenty twenty one, Virginia twenty third state in the
Union to completely do away with the death penalty. Okay,
whoever voted for that. You can take him home to
your house because he will get out that will have.
And you know, another aspect of this is Niema will
(24:04):
probably be taken to Nepal to be raised by her grandma,
and she will have no memory of mom to.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
That's the saddest thing of all, isn't it? As much
as she loved that baby, those adorable selfish she takes
with her in the background.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Over what a trip to the spice door, I mean, yeah,
to cook for his sorry behind. I'm just waiting to
see it all unfold. I just don't want her to
get lost in the sea of victims that we cover
every day. I don't want that for any crime victim.
But you know, Cheryl, I've told so many women when
(24:44):
I was a volunteer at the batter Women's Center, aunt
to today, when you first realize that, when you confront
the reality that there is violence in your home, it's
not getting any better. It will must likely get worse.
Those are the statistics. It's not just my fabricated warning,
(25:06):
it's real. Those are the statistics. If you want to
save yourself, but more important, your children, you have to
get out and never go back.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
It's never going to get better.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
And I know that's not what any person would choose
to break up their home and leave. But the alternative
is much worse, much worse, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
He will love you to death.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
I don't know what love has to do with it.
I'll just meet you with one cliche after the next.
But I just hate it from Mom to and her
family and Nima and the feeling of helplessness the mother
must feel coming from Nepal making that journey. Just sick
in her heart, knowing that Mom has gone, wanting to
(25:52):
believe she's still alive, the anxiety of not knowing it's
going to be torture for her, and I just pray
for her and the baby.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is the Crime Roundup with
zones Heaven. Mm hmm
Host
Sheryl McCollum
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