April 24, 2024 • 38 mins
Judge Glenda Hatchett is an American television personality, lawyer, and judge who is the star of the former court show, Judge Hatchett and current day The Verdict with Judge Hatchett, and founding partner at the national law firm, The Hatchett Firm.
Listeners can learn more about Judge Glenda Hatchett at her website https://smstrial.com/glenda-hatchett/ and on IG @thejudgehatchett
Resources:
Dare to Take Charge: How to Live Your Life on Purpose
Say What You Mean and Mean What You Say!: Saving Your Child from a Troubled World
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum, sits down with the remarkable Judge Glenda Hatchett to discuss her transformative journey through the justice system, emphasizing her role in juvenile court. Judge Hatchett shares powerful stories of her innovative approach to juvenile cases, focusing on rehabilitation over incarceration through creative sentencing, community programs, and personal mentorship. She advocates passionately for investing in youth development to break generational cycles of crime.
Show Notes:
- [0:00] Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum.
- [2:00] Sheryl introduces guest, Judge Glenda Hatchett to the listeners
- [6:00] The story of "Gator"
- [12:45] “Your past doesn’t have to define your future.”
- [13:30] Getting recidivism rates down to single digits
- [16:00] The influence of community programs on juvenile offenders
- [20:00] Costs of incarceration vs. education
- [24:00] Working with schools and families
- [29:00] The story of "Miss Hattie"
- [31:00] Judge Hatchett's current law practice
- [38:00] “It's so easy to get in the juvenile justice system and so hard to get out.”
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Two boys from my old neighborhood were best friends. They
lived on the same street and were the same grade
in school. Eric was a tremendous athlete, football baseball star.
He was a student government rep. He was one of
those just all around good guys. Everybody liked him. Jeremy
(00:32):
was not involved in anything extracurricular, no clubs, no sports,
nothing school sponsored at all. When they were seniors, they
pulled a stunt, They got caught, They got suspended for
five days. That should have been it equal treatment. But
because Eric was suspended that week, he couldn't play in
(00:53):
the big game. Because he couldn't play in the big game,
the colleges that were scouting him didn't get to see
him play, so they stopped recruiting. The principal didn't feel
like his actions kind of supported the moral character of
student government, so he was asked to resign his position.
(01:15):
Then his girlfriend's parents said, he's basically a hoodlum and
we don't want you to see him anymore. I always
felt that what happened to Eric was far worse than
what happened to Jeremy. Five days after being off of school,
Jeremy's life didn't change at all, Eric's changed forever, and
(01:38):
I of course was just lamenting about it, having my
soapbox about it, saying how unjust it was. And my
dad finally said, the more you have, the more you
have to lose. Now, y'all want to tell you something.
They say you can't go home again. They say, don't
(01:58):
meet your heroes. But I feel like I am headed
to a reunion with a hometown hero of mine. Y'all,
this is the first time that I am able to
welcome Judge Glinda Hatchett to Zone seven. Now I want
to tell y'all a little bit about her. You know
her from TVs. Judge Hatchett and from the Verdict with
(02:22):
Judge Hatchett. We are both Native Atlantans, but that ain't
how we met. She graduated from law school at Emory.
From there, she did a federal clerkship in the US
District Court of Northern Georgia. Followed that, she had a
coveted position with Delta Airlines. She served not only as
(02:44):
their senior attorney but also the head of their public relations.
She litigated cases in federal court and supervised global issues
from Asia, Europe and the United States. Ebity magazine recognized
her as one of the one hundred Best and Brightest
(03:08):
Black Women in Corporate America. January of nineteen ninety, Emory
University awarded her the Emory Medal for her commitment to
excellence with service to the community. In nineteen ninety, she
had a hard decision to make. She decided to leave
(03:30):
Delta Airlines and accept an appointment as the Chief Presiding
Judge over the Fulton County Juvenile Court. What she has
gone on to do is earn two Daytime Emmy Award nominations.
She became a best selling author. Her book Say What
You Mean and Mean what You say? Lord of That
(03:51):
don't sound like her followed up with Dare to Take Charge.
How to live your life Life on purpose, y'all. To
know where is to respect her and to just love
her and know that you are in the midst of greatness.
(04:12):
But listen now, this is where our paths cross. In
the first moment that I met Judge Hatchett, every single
thing that I had thought previously about Juvenile Court ceased
to exist. I was watching greatness and I knew it.
(04:32):
I was assigned to Operational Weed and Seed. That's the
most violent zone in Atlanta, if you know, you know,
And every now and then I would have somebody get
in a lot of trouble in juvenile court, and I
would always try to go with them because we had
Thomasville Heights, Inglewood Manor Capital homes in four seasons. Zone
(04:52):
three back in the late eighties and early nineties was violent, y'all.
It was mob cooked and street gang fed baby all
day long. Judge Hatchett, Welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh, Cheryl christ of All. I'm so full. I'm very
touched by that introduction. And you know, what a blessing
to reconnect with you after all of these years. And
as you're saying all these wonderful things about me.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Your audience needs to know that you have been righteously
on the front lines battling for justice, and you've always
been that way.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And I am just grateful for your life and your
dedication because I know that you turn lives around and
for that, I am very grateful, very very grateful.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well those words mean more than you know. Let me
tell y'all something. When I was first assigned to operational
wait and see through the Crime Commission, they sent me
out there with the Atlanta Police Department there was no book,
There was no how do we do this? How do
we get into a community that needs so much help
and really make a difference. The first time, Judge, I
(06:10):
ever met you, I walk in, I've got a little
fellow that you're gonna remember. You noticed. I guess that, hey,
there must be more to this. And the very first
conversation you and I ever had was a sidebar. You
brought me up and you were like, what's happening? And
I said, well, we got a little fellow here that
(06:32):
made a mistake absolutely, Judge, do you remember Gator?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes? Oh yeah, my goodness, I don't because of any
and you don't mean that in a derogatory day. I
just remember that it was.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It was a scene movie worthy. So y'all let me
paint the picture. This little fellow was eight years old,
and he was a tiny eight.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Year old, I mean really tiny for.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It tiny, but he had a smile that took up
most of his face. And that's why they called him Gator.
And everybody loved him. When I tell you, how sweet
and how kind, just what hug you wanted to be
around you, always smiling, always happy. But he of course
(07:23):
heard all the older boys talking all the time, and
he thought, Hey, whatever they do, I'm gonna do. He
just thought that was the thing to do, and he
stole a car. And judge, do you remember what the
police thought was happening.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, let me tell you what happened. First of all,
when he was in my crproom. I mean like, first
of all, as you said, he was so small for
an eight year old and kill and I'm like, why
is this precious little boy in my courtroom?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
The way he got caught the police because he was
so little he was, he scooted it down in the
car because he couldn't.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Touch the accelerator and the brake, so he is like
trying to drive, stretched down, scoot it down, And the
police honestly thought that the car had disengaged and was
rolling on his own and they were trying to stop
the car, only to find Gator was in the car.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yep, fantastic. But let me tell you took him and
spoke to him in such a loving, caring way to
make him understand. You could have been killed, You could
have killed somebody else, but you were not going to
(08:42):
put that child in that revolving. You weren't gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I wasn't gonna do it because the truth is that
he did not understand. Honestly, he was such a good kid.
He was scared to death coming to court because I'm
sure everybody had told him I was going to put
him in jail.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yes, he was such a good kid.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And when I talked to him, he had such a
good car car. And remember, Cheryl, the reason that he
took the car is that he took the car to
take it to show his mom. That's right, because they
never had a car. They couldn't afford a car. They
were in a situation when they and so he took
the car. He never intended to keep the car. He
(09:24):
was going to take it home, show this cool car
to his mom. And he hadn't thought through taking it back,
how I was going to get it back. He certainly
hadn't thought to the consequences. He certainly didn't understand the
police was gonna stop him, and he certainly didn't understand
that he was going to end up in court that day.
And thank god, he ended up in my courtroom. Amen,
(09:48):
there was no way on this green earth now I
was gonna put that child, an eight year old, in
jail with kids for what have Oh my god, goodness
and so. But but you remember I was strong with
him and I said, listen, what you did, and that's
the whole thing you could. I mean, he really thank
(10:10):
god he didn't hit anything. Thank God he didn't get hurt.
Thank God he didn't hurt somebody else, was what I
told him. But I was not gonna lock that baby up.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And when we left there that day, he looked at
me and he went, she scared me. I said, she
scared me too. Listen, and I told him, I said,
she meant exactly what she said to you, because you
looked at him and again, with all the love, you
talked to him so beautifully. But you told him I
better not ever ever see.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You in my courtroom again. And I looked at it.
I said, ever, you bet not, I bet not ever
ever see you in my courtroom again.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And you did not, and I did not.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I did not. I would love to know where Cator
is now, to know what he's doing, and love to,
you know, just see him again. But that could have
been very different. I mean, he could have gotten caught
up and his life would have been changed forever.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And you know, everybody now knows about creative sentencing and
all that sort of stuff. But back then I had
never heard of it. I sure Lord had never seen
it in action. And I remember coming home that night
and telling Walt, I had just seen the most amazing
thing I had ever seen. I knew a life had
been saved. I knew that he was now back on
(11:36):
the path he should have been. And I thought, you
know what, here with weed and see, we're going to
be able to do some things. So I came back
to you, right and I said, Judge, if it would
be all right. It's not like you weren't busy enough
because you had one of the largest juvenile court systems
in the country.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
In the country, that's true.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
But I said, if I could bring some of the
children to your courtroom and let you just talk to
them and let them see, hey, wait a minute, she
looks like me. And she's a judge, you know, and
she's from Atlanta. She sounds like me.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Way, and you can be a judge too.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And here we have these children that we brought. Not
only did you talk to them and take great time,
you pose for pictures, You let them hold the gavel,
and you just gave them this just raw and honest
talk about school and parents and home and friends in
the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And you told them.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
All of you, all of you can be better than
where you are. You don't have to let that dictate
anything to you.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Your pastes and not have to define your future.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
It does a men. And you told them something so cool,
because I don't think they ever realized this is your courthouse.
And you told them, not your court house for you
to be sitting out there, but to be sitting right here,
and you pointed to your chair. I'll never forget it. Remarkable.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You know, we have some other cases that we you know,
we can talk about because we really have to be
in the business of trying to change the direction of
their lives. And I got a lot of grief. I
got a lot of criticism because they said, oh, that
judge is down there just coddling those children. She's just
(13:33):
coddling those children. But I knew what I was doing instinctively.
I mean, I've never been a judge for it. As
you know, as you said to your audience, I came
out of corporate America, but I came with the heart
of really trying to change that system. And so I
got our With the help of people like you who
(13:57):
understood what I was trying to do, we got that
recent It isn't right down the single digit that is
unheard of single digit anywhere in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We got it down to nine percent nine modeling it is.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
It is mind Bob and I and I can't pure
you know what, because now it's's just too easy on
these kids. But I knew what I was doing. I
was trying to keep them out of the system. I
was very creative with alternative cysts, sentencings. And if you recall,
we started the first pilot of a relationship with the
(14:36):
Boys and Girls Club. Back then it was Boys and
Girls Club. It was both boys and girls club. Now,
I mean it was this boy's club back then. Now
it's you know, it's joint gets girls too. And I
would send the kids. I would say, Okay, if you
do X, Y and Z and I get a good report,
then I will close this case and you won't have
(14:57):
a record. And I and so you know, I got
pushed back from people in the system, but I also
got some pushback from the people and Girls Club and
Frank Sanchez. To this day, it's still a close ally
and we did shoulders. So because there were people like,
we don't want those bad kids in the boys and
girls club. In the boys club, then boy, we don't
(15:19):
want them. And so you know, I had to do
a lot of educating on that side too. But I
can go back and tell you that there were very
few children who fell off the track. And that's what
I needed. I need it, and that's what we did
with the Truancy Intervention Project. As you well know, let's
get these kids off the streets, let's get them back
(15:42):
in school. Chief Graham came over to see me one day.
I'll make this story short, Chief Graham Blewis Graham was
fulting Chief of Fulton count of Police. He came over.
He's a big guy. He came over. I told he
told you my secretary, I need to talk to the judge.
So you know, she passed me. You know, so soon, you know,
since I took a break finish one of whatever was doing.
(16:05):
I came in. He said, Judge, I heard that you
stopped and picked up some kids off the street and
took them to school this morning. I said, yes, I did. Chief.
He said, you can't do that anymore. I said, Chief,
I saw these kids. They was school age. I stopped
my car and I put them in my car. I
(16:27):
go to school because you and I know, And what
I want your audience to know, is it a child
who drops out of school, it's three and a half
times more likely to have a criminal record. And so
we got it. We gotta do better. We've got to
do better about keeping our kids in school and encourage
And I did a lot of workers on National Board
(16:49):
of Boys and Girls Club and I would always say,
you know, because there are kids in these clubs after school,
which we know three to six is the highest incident
of teenage pregnancy. You think it would be, you know,
at night, on the weekends or whatever, but no, it's
that unsupervised time where kids are being recruited by drug
(17:14):
dealers or some some no good older guys. It's come here, baby,
let me rock your world. And so we have to
really be intentional. And that's why I so respect you
and the work that you have done, because we can
change this. We can change it. And as you have
(17:37):
heard me say many a time that if we can
get a hold of these young people, now get them
on the right track out of the system, then we
are making a head start on their children's children's children's
children's children, and in a way that the work lives
(17:58):
beyond us. And I so believe in this. I just
so believe in this work.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
But that's the sermon, that's what people need to hear.
Saving this one child saves generationally.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yes, so we know. Let me tell you what we
know from studies. We know that talked about the true
and see three and a half times more likely to
have a criminal record. But we also know from these
studies that if a child drops out of school, they
are seven times more likely to have a child who
(18:33):
would drop out of school. And so we've got to
change Who've got to change this whole dynamics, the projectory
of all of this. And they are then seven times
more likely to be dependent on welfare during the lifetime.
And so I used to also say over and over,
and I would go and incruiting corporate partners and religious
(18:57):
partners and social services partners, trying to reread the fabric
of our community and bringing different stakeholders to the table.
As you know, I used to have these bring your bag,
bring your own lunch, and I would do drinks and desserts.
And so I would have people from the housing authority
(19:18):
and the police department, in the school department and the
you know whatever, all these different stakeholders, because we can't
operate in silos. And what I do know to be
true is that we have to figure out these stronger alliances.
And what I do know to be true is that
(19:39):
if we can keep our kids in school and engage
and they have some hope of further opportunities, then we're
making a head start. And so I'd always say, listen,
we're gonna do one or two things. Either we're gonna
invest heavily on the front end like programs had Start
(20:01):
and really figured out how we do after school programs
and you know, the big proponent of after school programs
and how do we do that and a set this
national organization and talking about that and been in Washington
and blah blah blah. But the point is that either
we're going to spend the money and the time the
(20:21):
energy to pour in on the front end or what
I say had Start, meaning kind of generically not just
the head start program, but giving this generation a head start,
Or we're going to pay deeply on what I call
back in costs for prison and so when I was
on the bench. And I haven't looked at the numbers lately,
but I used to pull out the numbers and say, listen,
(20:43):
it costs me four times as much to incarce your
way a jewel now in Fulton County that it would
be me to send them for a year that it
would send me to send them to the University of
Georgia full time. That's as much.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
That's the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And people don't know that tuition it would cost me
four times what it would cost me to send them
to college for a year. What is wrong with that picture?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That's right. You could take what it would cost to
house them in juvenile corrections and then send them to
private school and save money.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That is really true.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It is absolutely true. Woodward would be a song compared
to what it would put in the incarceration fund. Your
world's apart.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And the other thing too, is I used to have
to fight. I would show up at you know me,
I would show guess at the school board meetings.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Oh yeah, oh, I show up.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You know I would show up and they were like
stunned because they'd never had anybody do that before. And
I'm like, no, I'm going to be here. I'm going
to be right here because they were going to cut
the budget for the school in the detention set there
and I'm seeing you. You know, the kids who are
in the detention center still need to go to school
because then when they get out, they're going to be
(22:08):
so far behind. Then they are going to really feel
hopeless and they're going to be likely candidates to drop
out of school. Well, we don't think. I'm like, listen,
I don't care what you think. I need this budget.
I do not need the budget cut. And I will
be here every meeting until you decide that you're going
to do right.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And that's another thing that I won't be able to hear.
You did not stay in the Ivory tower they call
it with your row bone having coffee. No, you're in
the street, you were in the school board meeting, you're
in the community center, you're in the churches. Everybody knew you.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Urban League. I had I had them put a phone
on my you member. I had them put a phone
in the in the on the on.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
The bench, yes, ma'am, because I would have to keep
popping up going to my office and I would call
Linda Wade, then was the head of Urban League in Atlanta,
and I said, listen, Lina, I.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Need a job for this father so I can get
this family stabilized. So I get this kid in the
same school district. But you know, and so I would
call missus Sherman because I grew up here like you
grew up here.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And then one principal said, sent me a message and
said I don't want him school. Excuse me what? And
so I had to show calls because what was happening
is that they were showing the kids on the wall
but then opening the door and tell them don't come
back because they were trouble makers. Oh, I had a fit,
(23:41):
and I said, you know I had. I said, I'm
calling you in here, but the next time I'm calling
you in here, it will be for hearing to hold
you in contemptal court. And I mean that. And I said,
and the next person I will call will be the superintendent,
your boss. And I don't think any of you all
want to be held in contemptal courts. So when I
ordered a child back into school, I mean it. I
(24:04):
mean exactly that.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And that wasn't just an order to that child. That's
to the principal and his teacher and everybody.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Else, everybody. I said, I want this child back in school.
I want this child enroll. If it was a Friday,
I want that child enroll by eight o'clock, nine o'clock
Monday morning. And I meant that. So one parent said,
very early on, she said, there is a blankety blank
down town who is threatening to the lock up parents
(24:33):
because the child. I ordered the child, the mother to
go put the child in school. Child's right back in
my courtroom. A few months later, having burglarize somebody's house.
She never enrolled him in school. So she said, well,
this is Jemini Court. You can't lock me up.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
I said, watch me.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I have jurisdiction over anybody who contributes to the delinquency
or the deprivation of the child. And you have done
you have done both. I said, you think I'm playing
with you. Oh, you know how it would be in court.
So then in the work out around that blankety blank,
that blankly downtown, she gonna be lacking folk up yep.
(25:13):
And I meant that.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
You know, all right, judge, I got to tell on you.
Yes you have the phone put right there on the bench,
and yes you used it for so much good. But
let me tell you what I remember. I remember when
you would give somebody a directive and then they would
come in with their excuse. Well I tried to do
the community service, but so and so happened. Oh so
(25:34):
you couldn't get with mister David. Hold on, you knew
the number by heart, and then you could see everybody else.
Is that crazy? So and so calling David? Wait, she's
checking my story right now in front of everybody, right now,
in front of God and country. You're gonna call David
because number one David knows too. David. If I send
(25:56):
somebody to you to pick up trash on p Stree Street,
that's exactly what they better be doing, right. I mean,
you could watch people's faces and it was like, well,
the next one is not gonna get up and tell
some story because Judge Hash is gonna call.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Oh I'm gonna call. And the other thing is the
court reporters used to tease me because they said, Judge,
we don't even know why we're in here taking stuff
down because you can remember stuff for beata, because somebody
would say something and I said no, no, no, you just
said so and so so I said, no, let's just
check it. Would you read that back on the record
and it would be exactly what I just said. And
they come back in six months later, and I could
(26:32):
remember everything that My own children at home like hated
that because I can remember everything that was to get
that God gave me. But you come back in here
a year later, and I'd be like, Cheryl, excuse me. Now,
we had this conversation when you were in here, and
what did I tell you? I told you if you
came back in here one more time with this foolishness,
(26:54):
you weren't gonna go home. Did I not tell you that? Yes, ma'am.
One kid literally came and turned himself up in He
showed up. This is a true story show. He shows
up at the courthouse and they said, Judge, so and
so is here. I said, why is he here? He
says he needs to talk to you. He said, Judge,
I'm just gonna come in right now. I messed up.
(27:15):
You told me to do this, that and the other.
I didn't do it. I was running with the wrong crowd.
You told me not to do it. I got in trouble.
So I'm just coming here to turn myself in, right now.
I said, well, there's a certain thing called due process.
Let's get you a warrior. Let's just you know, me
appoint a public defense, you know. But he was like, Judge,
I already know what's gonna happen. You already told me.
(27:37):
You already told me what's gonna happen. Uh. And you
know the old stadium I was walking across taking my
own sons to a Braves game lit one afternoon. The
kids were hollering out the windows, you know, hollering they
saw me, and then my kids I was randow on
the bench and they were like, what is going on, mommy?
Why are they calling you? And I said, who's calling you?
(27:59):
And I said though my children. And my kids were like, well,
we don't say that they are not your children. We
are your children. I said, no, they're my children now too.
And so I had to explain to my own sons
why this was important and why I was because they
were looking at me kind of crazy. You know, you
left Delta Airlines and now we don't get to do
(28:20):
a lot of stuff anymore. You know, we get in
the back and people don't give us or dirbs or whatever.
So you know, I'm glad to know name cheap anyway.
So my point is that it was, you know, a
big buying from my family as well.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Well, Judge, I got to tell you. We've talked a
lot about statistics and numbers and creative sentencing, but I
just want to talk directly to you, and I want
to tell a story about Miss Hattie.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So there were two little boys that, like boys will
do sometimes, just decide to do something a little mischievous. Well,
they decided they were going to push this mailbox over
and hit it with some baseball bats and damage it
and run off, and that's what they did. Well, they
got caught. They got in front of you, and you said, listen,
(29:18):
I could do this to you or this to you,
or this to you and put you in the system,
but I'm not going to do that. I'm going to
make y'all face the victim and she's going to tell
you what your actions caused her. So Mss Hattie came
to court and there they were, and she started to
(29:39):
speak and she was very kind to them, and she
let them know, I don't think y'all meant to do
the harm that you did. But back then, y'all she
would get her Social Security check, but there was no
such thing as direct deposit. She had to get that
check and go to the bank to put it in
in order to pay her rent and to eat and
(30:01):
to keep her lights on. So she explained that to them,
I didn't have any money because I didn't have a mailbox,
and they weren't just going to leave it on the street.
So she had to wait. I don't know how many
weeks it was for them to be able to reissue
the check or bring it back to her. She explained
all that. She explained that she couldn't get any correspondent,
(30:21):
she wasn't getting her bills, so she couldn't pay them. Again,
for the young people listening, there was no way to
pay on your phone. You had to write a check
and mail it, but you had to have the bill
to do that. It cost her a lot of pain,
and then, being on a fixed income, she did not
have the money to buy the new mailbox, plus the cement,
plus everything else she'd have to do to put it
(30:43):
back in the ground. She was elderly and couldn't physically
do it. So you told them, y'all are going to
buy her a mailbox, and y'all are going to go
install that mailbox. And if you need help from your
daddy or your brothers, or your uncles or neighbors, go
get them. But y'all are going to do it. And
you gave them a certain amount of time, and they
(31:04):
were the three of them to come back. Well, Judge,
when they came back into that courtroom, not only had
they done what you told them to do with the mailbox,
they cut her grass. They helped her put some new
flowers in. They helped you know, she had like a
board or so, you know, loose on her porch. They
fixed that. They stayed in Miss Hattie's life till they
(31:29):
were out of high school, doing things for her. So
I want you to know it was not just that moment.
And because they were afraid that there was going to be,
you know, worse punishment down the road if they saw
you again, they legitimately became Miss Hattie's family.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Oh my god, that is so wonderful. Oh I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I'm tearing up listening to that.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Thank you for sharing, thank you for sharing that. Oh,
thank you. That touches my soul. That is why people
were gonna fit me for a straight jacket when I
left Delton, making a lot of money and stock options
to get flying nowhere in the world. But as I've
told you before, that was not my decision. That was
(32:18):
God's decision to move me there, and that is where
I found my purpose and passion. And even though I
was asked about moving to a higher court, moving to
a pellet court in Georgia or a federal court, I
didn't ever want. I never aspired to go any other
other court, and I would have never applied for a
(32:41):
judge ship had it not been juvenile Court because in
my heart to this day, I still believe that it's
the most important court in the system, because if we
get it right there, then we can turn a lot
of lives around and can save a lot of lives
and take anyway thing away from the Supreme Court, of
(33:02):
the Georgia, Court of Appeical all of them have important work,
but I still believe, in my heart of hearts that
the Juvenile Court is the most important court because it
can either be the gateway to prison further on, or
it can be what my father would tell me was
(33:24):
the intersection of New Hope Road, and I didn't understand
that growing up, I get it, you know, really understand
it as an adult. He said, if you get to
the intersection and you make the decision to turn off
of the bad road that you're on and turn on
to New Hope Road, and you walk down that road
(33:48):
far enough, if you look back over your shoulder, you
can no longer see the old road. And I've told
that story more times than I can ever remember. Lead
that in my heart, and I believe that if we
do a better job in juvenile court of having not
only young people but their families, because I believe, you know,
(34:12):
I believe a holistic approach to the work that I
did in juvenile court, that if you turn that corner
of New Hope Road. And my father died suddenly thirty
years ago, but I thank him for that lesson because
it is a lesson that I've shared with so many
young people and so many families over the years, because
(34:35):
that is what this has to be about. And Cheryl,
I thank God for you. I thank God for the
work you have done, and just thank God for you.
I don't know how else to say it.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Well, ma'am, you have taught me so much. And one
thing you would always say to us is the more
goodwill and understanding you can generate, the better off we
will all be. And you live that. You don't just
write it down. You don't just say it from the bench.
You live it, you walk it.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Everybody thinks I'm just a judge, but I am a
great lawyer. And you know, if you've got a serious gauge,
you want me in the courtroom fighting for you. I'm
based here in Atlanta, but I take cases from all
of the countries. You know, my daughter died tragically in
twenty sixteen after giving birth to their second child, needlessly.
(35:28):
So I am doing wrongful death cases. I mean, I'm
going to be doing some maternal death cases now because
I'm emotionally strong enough to do it. Wasn't it first.
So I do sexual assault cases. You know I've also
been a victim of sexual assault. I'm doing premises liability,
as I said, wrongful death, catastrophic injuries from chucking, and
(35:49):
auto accidents. And I'm at the firm of Stuart Miller
Simmons here in Atlanta, and the season to find me
it's fural for Walker for a law firm, or you
can just text to the number twenty one thousand, and
we'll go into a system and so one will get
back to you.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And I'll tell you what else I'll do for everybody listening.
I'm going to add a link, not just to the
law firm. I think there's a QR code and some
other things. I'm going to make it easy to find her,
especially if you need her. Yes, And I'll tell you know,
I didn't bring it up to me. It wasn't worth
bringing up for a thousand reasons. But here's the part
that is worth bringing up again. You've lived it, you've
(36:33):
walked it. You've shown that you don't just talk about
justice when it's somebody else that's been hurt. You were hurt,
you were assaulted, and you stood up and you pointed
to him and you said what he did and you
stood by it, and you've got justice, not just for yourself.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Thank you, Cheryl. I appreciate that. I never wanted to
be the post a child for sexual assault. But God
puts you where you're supposed to be. And if it
had to happen to someone's best that it happened to me,
and that is not probably the right word. It's better
that it happened to me. Because I have the support,
I know, the law. People really rallied around me, and
(37:13):
the number of people from all of the country. I've
had people even from outside the country reach out to say, Judge,
thank you. I didn't have the strength or didn't know
what to do when it happened to me, and I
felt like you have stood up for a lot of women,
and you've given other women courage now to speak their truth, and.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
You saved who knows how many future victims because you
stopped him.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yes, that's true, that is true. That is true, and
others like him who think that this is really okay.
So I do take on representing representing sexual assault victims
in addition to primisis liability. And so if people need me,
thank you for posting so we will be sure. If
(38:01):
you let April mail, will be sure post the link
to this podcast so that people will know that you
have this wonderful form that you're using for good, but
which I'm very grateful, y'all.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I have no end zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote. It's so easy to give
in the juvenile justice system and so hard to get out.
Anonymous seventeen year old female. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this
is Zone seven.
Two boys from my old neighborhood were best friends. They
lived on the same street and were the same grade
in school. Eric was a tremendous athlete, football baseball star.
He was a student government rep. He was one of
those just all around good guys. Everybody liked him. Jeremy
(00:32):
was not involved in anything extracurricular, no clubs, no sports,
nothing school sponsored at all. When they were seniors, they
pulled a stunt, They got caught, They got suspended for
five days. That should have been it equal treatment. But
because Eric was suspended that week, he couldn't play in
(00:53):
the big game. Because he couldn't play in the big game,
the colleges that were scouting him didn't get to see
him play, so they stopped recruiting. The principal didn't feel
like his actions kind of supported the moral character of
student government, so he was asked to resign his position.
(01:15):
Then his girlfriend's parents said, he's basically a hoodlum and
we don't want you to see him anymore. I always
felt that what happened to Eric was far worse than
what happened to Jeremy. Five days after being off of school,
Jeremy's life didn't change at all, Eric's changed forever, and
(01:38):
I of course was just lamenting about it, having my
soapbox about it, saying how unjust it was. And my
dad finally said, the more you have, the more you
have to lose. Now, y'all want to tell you something.
They say you can't go home again. They say, don't
(01:58):
meet your heroes. But I feel like I am headed
to a reunion with a hometown hero of mine. Y'all,
this is the first time that I am able to
welcome Judge Glinda Hatchett to Zone seven. Now I want
to tell y'all a little bit about her. You know
her from TVs. Judge Hatchett and from the Verdict with
(02:22):
Judge Hatchett. We are both Native Atlantans, but that ain't
how we met. She graduated from law school at Emory.
From there, she did a federal clerkship in the US
District Court of Northern Georgia. Followed that, she had a
coveted position with Delta Airlines. She served not only as
(02:44):
their senior attorney but also the head of their public relations.
She litigated cases in federal court and supervised global issues
from Asia, Europe and the United States. Ebity magazine recognized
her as one of the one hundred Best and Brightest
(03:08):
Black Women in Corporate America. January of nineteen ninety, Emory
University awarded her the Emory Medal for her commitment to
excellence with service to the community. In nineteen ninety, she
had a hard decision to make. She decided to leave
(03:30):
Delta Airlines and accept an appointment as the Chief Presiding
Judge over the Fulton County Juvenile Court. What she has
gone on to do is earn two Daytime Emmy Award nominations.
She became a best selling author. Her book Say What
You Mean and Mean what You say? Lord of That
(03:51):
don't sound like her followed up with Dare to Take Charge.
How to live your life Life on purpose, y'all. To
know where is to respect her and to just love
her and know that you are in the midst of greatness.
(04:12):
But listen now, this is where our paths cross. In
the first moment that I met Judge Hatchett, every single
thing that I had thought previously about Juvenile Court ceased
to exist. I was watching greatness and I knew it.
(04:32):
I was assigned to Operational Weed and Seed. That's the
most violent zone in Atlanta, if you know, you know,
And every now and then I would have somebody get
in a lot of trouble in juvenile court, and I
would always try to go with them because we had
Thomasville Heights, Inglewood Manor Capital homes in four seasons. Zone
(04:52):
three back in the late eighties and early nineties was violent, y'all.
It was mob cooked and street gang fed baby all
day long. Judge Hatchett, Welcome to Zone seven.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Oh, Cheryl christ of All. I'm so full. I'm very
touched by that introduction. And you know, what a blessing
to reconnect with you after all of these years. And
as you're saying all these wonderful things about me.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Your audience needs to know that you have been righteously
on the front lines battling for justice, and you've always
been that way.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
And I am just grateful for your life and your
dedication because I know that you turn lives around and
for that, I am very grateful, very very grateful.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Well those words mean more than you know. Let me
tell y'all something. When I was first assigned to operational
wait and see through the Crime Commission, they sent me
out there with the Atlanta Police Department there was no book,
There was no how do we do this? How do
we get into a community that needs so much help
and really make a difference. The first time, Judge, I
(06:10):
ever met you, I walk in, I've got a little
fellow that you're gonna remember. You noticed. I guess that, hey,
there must be more to this. And the very first
conversation you and I ever had was a sidebar. You
brought me up and you were like, what's happening? And
I said, well, we got a little fellow here that
(06:32):
made a mistake absolutely, Judge, do you remember Gator?
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yes? Oh yeah, my goodness, I don't because of any
and you don't mean that in a derogatory day. I
just remember that it was.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
It was a scene movie worthy. So y'all let me
paint the picture. This little fellow was eight years old,
and he was a tiny eight.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Year old, I mean really tiny for.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
It tiny, but he had a smile that took up
most of his face. And that's why they called him Gator.
And everybody loved him. When I tell you, how sweet
and how kind, just what hug you wanted to be
around you, always smiling, always happy. But he of course
(07:23):
heard all the older boys talking all the time, and
he thought, Hey, whatever they do, I'm gonna do. He
just thought that was the thing to do, and he
stole a car. And judge, do you remember what the
police thought was happening.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, let me tell you what happened. First of all,
when he was in my crproom. I mean like, first
of all, as you said, he was so small for
an eight year old and kill and I'm like, why
is this precious little boy in my courtroom?
Speaker 4 (07:50):
The way he got caught the police because he was
so little he was, he scooted it down in the
car because he couldn't.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Touch the accelerator and the brake, so he is like
trying to drive, stretched down, scoot it down, And the
police honestly thought that the car had disengaged and was
rolling on his own and they were trying to stop
the car, only to find Gator was in the car.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yep, fantastic. But let me tell you took him and
spoke to him in such a loving, caring way to
make him understand. You could have been killed, You could
have killed somebody else, but you were not going to
(08:42):
put that child in that revolving. You weren't gonna do it.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I wasn't gonna do it because the truth is that
he did not understand. Honestly, he was such a good kid.
He was scared to death coming to court because I'm
sure everybody had told him I was going to put
him in jail.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yes, he was such a good kid.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And when I talked to him, he had such a
good car car. And remember, Cheryl, the reason that he
took the car is that he took the car to
take it to show his mom. That's right, because they
never had a car. They couldn't afford a car. They
were in a situation when they and so he took
the car. He never intended to keep the car. He
(09:24):
was going to take it home, show this cool car
to his mom. And he hadn't thought through taking it back,
how I was going to get it back. He certainly
hadn't thought to the consequences. He certainly didn't understand the
police was gonna stop him, and he certainly didn't understand
that he was going to end up in court that day.
And thank god, he ended up in my courtroom. Amen,
(09:48):
there was no way on this green earth now I
was gonna put that child, an eight year old, in
jail with kids for what have Oh my god, goodness
and so. But but you remember I was strong with
him and I said, listen, what you did, and that's
the whole thing you could. I mean, he really thank
(10:10):
god he didn't hit anything. Thank God he didn't get hurt.
Thank God he didn't hurt somebody else, was what I
told him. But I was not gonna lock that baby up.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And when we left there that day, he looked at
me and he went, she scared me. I said, she
scared me too. Listen, and I told him, I said,
she meant exactly what she said to you, because you
looked at him and again, with all the love, you
talked to him so beautifully. But you told him I
better not ever ever see.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
You in my courtroom again. And I looked at it.
I said, ever, you bet not, I bet not ever
ever see you in my courtroom again.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
And you did not, and I did not.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
I did not. I would love to know where Cator
is now, to know what he's doing, and love to,
you know, just see him again. But that could have
been very different. I mean, he could have gotten caught
up and his life would have been changed forever.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
And you know, everybody now knows about creative sentencing and
all that sort of stuff. But back then I had
never heard of it. I sure Lord had never seen
it in action. And I remember coming home that night
and telling Walt, I had just seen the most amazing
thing I had ever seen. I knew a life had
been saved. I knew that he was now back on
(11:36):
the path he should have been. And I thought, you
know what, here with weed and see, we're going to
be able to do some things. So I came back
to you, right and I said, Judge, if it would
be all right. It's not like you weren't busy enough
because you had one of the largest juvenile court systems
in the country.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
In the country, that's true.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
But I said, if I could bring some of the
children to your courtroom and let you just talk to
them and let them see, hey, wait a minute, she
looks like me. And she's a judge, you know, and
she's from Atlanta. She sounds like me.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Way, and you can be a judge too.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
And here we have these children that we brought. Not
only did you talk to them and take great time,
you pose for pictures, You let them hold the gavel,
and you just gave them this just raw and honest
talk about school and parents and home and friends in
the neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And you told them.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
All of you, all of you can be better than
where you are. You don't have to let that dictate
anything to you.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Your pastes and not have to define your future.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
It does a men. And you told them something so cool,
because I don't think they ever realized this is your courthouse.
And you told them, not your court house for you
to be sitting out there, but to be sitting right here,
and you pointed to your chair. I'll never forget it. Remarkable.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
You know, we have some other cases that we you know,
we can talk about because we really have to be
in the business of trying to change the direction of
their lives. And I got a lot of grief. I
got a lot of criticism because they said, oh, that
judge is down there just coddling those children. She's just
(13:33):
coddling those children. But I knew what I was doing instinctively.
I mean, I've never been a judge for it. As
you know, as you said to your audience, I came
out of corporate America, but I came with the heart
of really trying to change that system. And so I
got our With the help of people like you who
(13:57):
understood what I was trying to do, we got that
recent It isn't right down the single digit that is
unheard of single digit anywhere in this country.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
We got it down to nine percent nine modeling it is.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
It is mind Bob and I and I can't pure
you know what, because now it's's just too easy on
these kids. But I knew what I was doing. I
was trying to keep them out of the system. I
was very creative with alternative cysts, sentencings. And if you recall,
we started the first pilot of a relationship with the
(14:36):
Boys and Girls Club. Back then it was Boys and
Girls Club. It was both boys and girls club. Now,
I mean it was this boy's club back then. Now
it's you know, it's joint gets girls too. And I
would send the kids. I would say, Okay, if you
do X, Y and Z and I get a good report,
then I will close this case and you won't have
(14:57):
a record. And I and so you know, I got
pushed back from people in the system, but I also
got some pushback from the people and Girls Club and
Frank Sanchez. To this day, it's still a close ally
and we did shoulders. So because there were people like,
we don't want those bad kids in the boys and
girls club. In the boys club, then boy, we don't
(15:19):
want them. And so you know, I had to do
a lot of educating on that side too. But I
can go back and tell you that there were very
few children who fell off the track. And that's what
I needed. I need it, and that's what we did
with the Truancy Intervention Project. As you well know, let's
get these kids off the streets, let's get them back
(15:42):
in school. Chief Graham came over to see me one day.
I'll make this story short, Chief Graham Blewis Graham was
fulting Chief of Fulton count of Police. He came over.
He's a big guy. He came over. I told he
told you my secretary, I need to talk to the judge.
So you know, she passed me. You know, so soon, you know,
since I took a break finish one of whatever was doing.
(16:05):
I came in. He said, Judge, I heard that you
stopped and picked up some kids off the street and
took them to school this morning. I said, yes, I did. Chief.
He said, you can't do that anymore. I said, Chief,
I saw these kids. They was school age. I stopped
my car and I put them in my car. I
(16:27):
go to school because you and I know, And what
I want your audience to know, is it a child
who drops out of school, it's three and a half
times more likely to have a criminal record. And so
we got it. We gotta do better. We've got to
do better about keeping our kids in school and encourage
And I did a lot of workers on National Board
(16:49):
of Boys and Girls Club and I would always say,
you know, because there are kids in these clubs after school,
which we know three to six is the highest incident
of teenage pregnancy. You think it would be, you know,
at night, on the weekends or whatever, but no, it's
that unsupervised time where kids are being recruited by drug
(17:14):
dealers or some some no good older guys. It's come here, baby,
let me rock your world. And so we have to
really be intentional. And that's why I so respect you
and the work that you have done, because we can
change this. We can change it. And as you have
(17:37):
heard me say many a time that if we can
get a hold of these young people, now get them
on the right track out of the system, then we
are making a head start on their children's children's children's
children's children, and in a way that the work lives
(17:58):
beyond us. And I so believe in this. I just
so believe in this work.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
But that's the sermon, that's what people need to hear.
Saving this one child saves generationally.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yes, so we know. Let me tell you what we
know from studies. We know that talked about the true
and see three and a half times more likely to
have a criminal record. But we also know from these
studies that if a child drops out of school, they
are seven times more likely to have a child who
(18:33):
would drop out of school. And so we've got to
change Who've got to change this whole dynamics, the projectory
of all of this. And they are then seven times
more likely to be dependent on welfare during the lifetime.
And so I used to also say over and over,
and I would go and incruiting corporate partners and religious
(18:57):
partners and social services partners, trying to reread the fabric
of our community and bringing different stakeholders to the table.
As you know, I used to have these bring your bag,
bring your own lunch, and I would do drinks and desserts.
And so I would have people from the housing authority
(19:18):
and the police department, in the school department and the
you know whatever, all these different stakeholders, because we can't
operate in silos. And what I do know to be
true is that we have to figure out these stronger alliances.
And what I do know to be true is that
(19:39):
if we can keep our kids in school and engage
and they have some hope of further opportunities, then we're
making a head start. And so I'd always say, listen,
we're gonna do one or two things. Either we're gonna
invest heavily on the front end like programs had Start
(20:01):
and really figured out how we do after school programs
and you know, the big proponent of after school programs
and how do we do that and a set this
national organization and talking about that and been in Washington
and blah blah blah. But the point is that either
we're going to spend the money and the time the
(20:21):
energy to pour in on the front end or what
I say had Start, meaning kind of generically not just
the head start program, but giving this generation a head start,
Or we're going to pay deeply on what I call
back in costs for prison and so when I was
on the bench. And I haven't looked at the numbers lately,
but I used to pull out the numbers and say, listen,
(20:43):
it costs me four times as much to incarce your
way a jewel now in Fulton County that it would
be me to send them for a year that it
would send me to send them to the University of
Georgia full time. That's as much.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
That's the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And people don't know that tuition it would cost me
four times what it would cost me to send them
to college for a year. What is wrong with that picture?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
That's right. You could take what it would cost to
house them in juvenile corrections and then send them to
private school and save money.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That is really true.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
It is absolutely true. Woodward would be a song compared
to what it would put in the incarceration fund. Your
world's apart.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
And the other thing too, is I used to have
to fight. I would show up at you know me,
I would show guess at the school board meetings.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Oh yeah, oh, I show up.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
You know I would show up and they were like
stunned because they'd never had anybody do that before. And
I'm like, no, I'm going to be here. I'm going
to be right here because they were going to cut
the budget for the school in the detention set there
and I'm seeing you. You know, the kids who are
in the detention center still need to go to school
because then when they get out, they're going to be
(22:08):
so far behind. Then they are going to really feel
hopeless and they're going to be likely candidates to drop
out of school. Well, we don't think. I'm like, listen,
I don't care what you think. I need this budget.
I do not need the budget cut. And I will
be here every meeting until you decide that you're going
to do right.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
And that's another thing that I won't be able to hear.
You did not stay in the Ivory tower they call
it with your row bone having coffee. No, you're in
the street, you were in the school board meeting, you're
in the community center, you're in the churches. Everybody knew you.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Urban League. I had I had them put a phone
on my you member. I had them put a phone
in the in the on the on.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
The bench, yes, ma'am, because I would have to keep
popping up going to my office and I would call
Linda Wade, then was the head of Urban League in Atlanta,
and I said, listen, Lina, I.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Need a job for this father so I can get
this family stabilized. So I get this kid in the
same school district. But you know, and so I would
call missus Sherman because I grew up here like you
grew up here.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
And then one principal said, sent me a message and
said I don't want him school. Excuse me what? And
so I had to show calls because what was happening
is that they were showing the kids on the wall
but then opening the door and tell them don't come
back because they were trouble makers. Oh, I had a fit,
(23:41):
and I said, you know I had. I said, I'm
calling you in here, but the next time I'm calling
you in here, it will be for hearing to hold
you in contemptal court. And I mean that. And I said,
and the next person I will call will be the superintendent,
your boss. And I don't think any of you all
want to be held in contemptal courts. So when I
ordered a child back into school, I mean it. I
(24:04):
mean exactly that.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
And that wasn't just an order to that child. That's
to the principal and his teacher and everybody.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Else, everybody. I said, I want this child back in school.
I want this child enroll. If it was a Friday,
I want that child enroll by eight o'clock, nine o'clock
Monday morning. And I meant that. So one parent said,
very early on, she said, there is a blankety blank
down town who is threatening to the lock up parents
(24:33):
because the child. I ordered the child, the mother to
go put the child in school. Child's right back in
my courtroom. A few months later, having burglarize somebody's house.
She never enrolled him in school. So she said, well,
this is Jemini Court. You can't lock me up.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
I said, watch me.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I have jurisdiction over anybody who contributes to the delinquency
or the deprivation of the child. And you have done
you have done both. I said, you think I'm playing
with you. Oh, you know how it would be in court.
So then in the work out around that blankety blank,
that blankly downtown, she gonna be lacking folk up yep.
(25:13):
And I meant that.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
You know, all right, judge, I got to tell on you.
Yes you have the phone put right there on the bench,
and yes you used it for so much good. But
let me tell you what I remember. I remember when
you would give somebody a directive and then they would
come in with their excuse. Well I tried to do
the community service, but so and so happened. Oh so
(25:34):
you couldn't get with mister David. Hold on, you knew
the number by heart, and then you could see everybody else.
Is that crazy? So and so calling David? Wait, she's
checking my story right now in front of everybody, right now,
in front of God and country. You're gonna call David
because number one David knows too. David. If I send
(25:56):
somebody to you to pick up trash on p Stree Street,
that's exactly what they better be doing, right. I mean,
you could watch people's faces and it was like, well,
the next one is not gonna get up and tell
some story because Judge Hash is gonna call.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Oh I'm gonna call. And the other thing is the
court reporters used to tease me because they said, Judge,
we don't even know why we're in here taking stuff
down because you can remember stuff for beata, because somebody
would say something and I said no, no, no, you just
said so and so so I said, no, let's just
check it. Would you read that back on the record
and it would be exactly what I just said. And
they come back in six months later, and I could
(26:32):
remember everything that My own children at home like hated
that because I can remember everything that was to get
that God gave me. But you come back in here
a year later, and I'd be like, Cheryl, excuse me. Now,
we had this conversation when you were in here, and
what did I tell you? I told you if you
came back in here one more time with this foolishness,
(26:54):
you weren't gonna go home. Did I not tell you that? Yes, ma'am.
One kid literally came and turned himself up in He
showed up. This is a true story show. He shows
up at the courthouse and they said, Judge, so and
so is here. I said, why is he here? He
says he needs to talk to you. He said, Judge,
I'm just gonna come in right now. I messed up.
(27:15):
You told me to do this, that and the other.
I didn't do it. I was running with the wrong crowd.
You told me not to do it. I got in trouble.
So I'm just coming here to turn myself in, right now.
I said, well, there's a certain thing called due process.
Let's get you a warrior. Let's just you know, me
appoint a public defense, you know. But he was like, Judge,
I already know what's gonna happen. You already told me.
(27:37):
You already told me what's gonna happen. Uh. And you
know the old stadium I was walking across taking my
own sons to a Braves game lit one afternoon. The
kids were hollering out the windows, you know, hollering they
saw me, and then my kids I was randow on
the bench and they were like, what is going on, mommy?
Why are they calling you? And I said, who's calling you?
(27:59):
And I said though my children. And my kids were like, well,
we don't say that they are not your children. We
are your children. I said, no, they're my children now too.
And so I had to explain to my own sons
why this was important and why I was because they
were looking at me kind of crazy. You know, you
left Delta Airlines and now we don't get to do
(28:20):
a lot of stuff anymore. You know, we get in
the back and people don't give us or dirbs or whatever.
So you know, I'm glad to know name cheap anyway.
So my point is that it was, you know, a
big buying from my family as well.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Well, Judge, I got to tell you. We've talked a
lot about statistics and numbers and creative sentencing, but I
just want to talk directly to you, and I want
to tell a story about Miss Hattie.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
So there were two little boys that, like boys will
do sometimes, just decide to do something a little mischievous. Well,
they decided they were going to push this mailbox over
and hit it with some baseball bats and damage it
and run off, and that's what they did. Well, they
got caught. They got in front of you, and you said, listen,
(29:18):
I could do this to you or this to you,
or this to you and put you in the system,
but I'm not going to do that. I'm going to
make y'all face the victim and she's going to tell
you what your actions caused her. So Mss Hattie came
to court and there they were, and she started to
(29:39):
speak and she was very kind to them, and she
let them know, I don't think y'all meant to do
the harm that you did. But back then, y'all she
would get her Social Security check, but there was no
such thing as direct deposit. She had to get that
check and go to the bank to put it in
in order to pay her rent and to eat and
(30:01):
to keep her lights on. So she explained that to them,
I didn't have any money because I didn't have a mailbox,
and they weren't just going to leave it on the street.
So she had to wait. I don't know how many
weeks it was for them to be able to reissue
the check or bring it back to her. She explained
all that. She explained that she couldn't get any correspondent,
(30:21):
she wasn't getting her bills, so she couldn't pay them. Again,
for the young people listening, there was no way to
pay on your phone. You had to write a check
and mail it, but you had to have the bill
to do that. It cost her a lot of pain,
and then, being on a fixed income, she did not
have the money to buy the new mailbox, plus the cement,
plus everything else she'd have to do to put it
(30:43):
back in the ground. She was elderly and couldn't physically
do it. So you told them, y'all are going to
buy her a mailbox, and y'all are going to go
install that mailbox. And if you need help from your
daddy or your brothers, or your uncles or neighbors, go
get them. But y'all are going to do it. And
you gave them a certain amount of time, and they
(31:04):
were the three of them to come back. Well, Judge,
when they came back into that courtroom, not only had
they done what you told them to do with the mailbox,
they cut her grass. They helped her put some new
flowers in. They helped you know, she had like a
board or so, you know, loose on her porch. They
fixed that. They stayed in Miss Hattie's life till they
(31:29):
were out of high school, doing things for her. So
I want you to know it was not just that moment.
And because they were afraid that there was going to be,
you know, worse punishment down the road if they saw
you again, they legitimately became Miss Hattie's family.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Oh my god, that is so wonderful. Oh I love it.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
I'm tearing up listening to that.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
So thank you for that.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
Thank you for sharing, thank you for sharing that. Oh,
thank you. That touches my soul. That is why people
were gonna fit me for a straight jacket when I
left Delton, making a lot of money and stock options
to get flying nowhere in the world. But as I've
told you before, that was not my decision. That was
(32:18):
God's decision to move me there, and that is where
I found my purpose and passion. And even though I
was asked about moving to a higher court, moving to
a pellet court in Georgia or a federal court, I
didn't ever want. I never aspired to go any other
other court, and I would have never applied for a
(32:41):
judge ship had it not been juvenile Court because in
my heart to this day, I still believe that it's
the most important court in the system, because if we
get it right there, then we can turn a lot
of lives around and can save a lot of lives
and take anyway thing away from the Supreme Court, of
(33:02):
the Georgia, Court of Appeical all of them have important work,
but I still believe, in my heart of hearts that
the Juvenile Court is the most important court because it
can either be the gateway to prison further on, or
it can be what my father would tell me was
(33:24):
the intersection of New Hope Road, and I didn't understand
that growing up, I get it, you know, really understand
it as an adult. He said, if you get to
the intersection and you make the decision to turn off
of the bad road that you're on and turn on
to New Hope Road, and you walk down that road
(33:48):
far enough, if you look back over your shoulder, you
can no longer see the old road. And I've told
that story more times than I can ever remember. Lead
that in my heart, and I believe that if we
do a better job in juvenile court of having not
only young people but their families, because I believe, you know,
(34:12):
I believe a holistic approach to the work that I
did in juvenile court, that if you turn that corner
of New Hope Road. And my father died suddenly thirty
years ago, but I thank him for that lesson because
it is a lesson that I've shared with so many
young people and so many families over the years, because
(34:35):
that is what this has to be about. And Cheryl,
I thank God for you. I thank God for the
work you have done, and just thank God for you.
I don't know how else to say it.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
Well, ma'am, you have taught me so much. And one
thing you would always say to us is the more
goodwill and understanding you can generate, the better off we
will all be. And you live that. You don't just
write it down. You don't just say it from the bench.
You live it, you walk it.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Everybody thinks I'm just a judge, but I am a
great lawyer. And you know, if you've got a serious gauge,
you want me in the courtroom fighting for you. I'm
based here in Atlanta, but I take cases from all
of the countries. You know, my daughter died tragically in
twenty sixteen after giving birth to their second child, needlessly.
(35:28):
So I am doing wrongful death cases. I mean, I'm
going to be doing some maternal death cases now because
I'm emotionally strong enough to do it. Wasn't it first.
So I do sexual assault cases. You know I've also
been a victim of sexual assault. I'm doing premises liability,
as I said, wrongful death, catastrophic injuries from chucking, and
(35:49):
auto accidents. And I'm at the firm of Stuart Miller
Simmons here in Atlanta, and the season to find me
it's fural for Walker for a law firm, or you
can just text to the number twenty one thousand, and
we'll go into a system and so one will get
back to you.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
And I'll tell you what else I'll do for everybody listening.
I'm going to add a link, not just to the
law firm. I think there's a QR code and some
other things. I'm going to make it easy to find her,
especially if you need her. Yes, And I'll tell you know,
I didn't bring it up to me. It wasn't worth
bringing up for a thousand reasons. But here's the part
that is worth bringing up again. You've lived it, you've
(36:33):
walked it. You've shown that you don't just talk about
justice when it's somebody else that's been hurt. You were hurt,
you were assaulted, and you stood up and you pointed
to him and you said what he did and you
stood by it, and you've got justice, not just for yourself.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Thank you, Cheryl. I appreciate that. I never wanted to
be the post a child for sexual assault. But God
puts you where you're supposed to be. And if it
had to happen to someone's best that it happened to me,
and that is not probably the right word. It's better
that it happened to me. Because I have the support,
I know, the law. People really rallied around me, and
(37:13):
the number of people from all of the country. I've
had people even from outside the country reach out to say, Judge,
thank you. I didn't have the strength or didn't know
what to do when it happened to me, and I
felt like you have stood up for a lot of women,
and you've given other women courage now to speak their truth, and.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
You saved who knows how many future victims because you
stopped him.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yes, that's true, that is true. That is true, and
others like him who think that this is really okay.
So I do take on representing representing sexual assault victims
in addition to primisis liability. And so if people need me,
thank you for posting so we will be sure. If
(38:01):
you let April mail, will be sure post the link
to this podcast so that people will know that you
have this wonderful form that you're using for good, but
which I'm very grateful, y'all.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
I have no end zone seven the way that I
always do with a quote. It's so easy to give
in the juvenile justice system and so hard to get out.
Anonymous seventeen year old female. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this
is Zone seven.
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