In the first ever episode of a new Zone 7 series, CRU sees a dream team of Nancy Grace joining our Host Sheryl McCollum to rehash the most relevant crime topics from the previous weeks news.
Nancy Grace is an outspoken, tireless advocate for victims’ rights and one of television's most respected legal analysts. Nancy Grace had a perfect conviction record during her decade as a prosecutor. She is the founder and publisher of CrimeOnline.com, a crime- fighting digital platform that investigates breaking crime news, spreads awareness of missing people and shines a light on cold cases.
Today Nancy and Sheryl discuss these topics in today’s crime round-up:
P Diddy Federal Raid: Is it a message to a witness?
Sebastian Rogers Missing: Nancy offered to set up a polygraph for the stepfather to take
Byan Koberger Venue Change: Calling potential jurors with a survey: Tainting a jury pool before selection even happens!
Show Notes:
- [0:00] Welcome! Nancy and Sheryl introduce this week’s crime roundup
- [0:30] The Case Against Sean "P Diddy" Combs
- [14:00] The mysterious disappearance of Sebastian Rogers
- [21:30] Byan Koberger: Jury tampering and legal strategies
- [27:00] Closing Thoughts and Story from Nancy and Sheryl’s Past
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
You can connect and learn more about Sheryl’s work by visiting the CCIRI website https://coldcasecrimes.org
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
In addition, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a daily show hosted by Grace, airs on SIRIUS XM’s Triumph Channel 111 and is downloadable as a podcast on all audio platforms.
- Twitter/X: @nancygrace
- Instagram: @thenancygrace
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/NancyGraceOfficial
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Y'all, we have the one and only Nancy Grace with
us for a true crime round up. Back in the day,
we would often get together on Fridays and assess the
week and plan and prepare for Monday, and Nancy would
call it a round up. So I'm gonna get right
to it and let Miss Grace take over. So let's
(00:30):
talk first about Sean Puffy Combs aka P Diddy. So
the Feds hit two of his homes, one in LA
and one in Miami. What did you think when you
heard that?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Okay, number one. I don't know how I feel about
calling it a round up because you make cases sound
like cows or pigs of some sort. But that said,
Sean P. Diddy comes aka Puff aka puff Daddy aka Diddy.
(01:05):
I mean, there's so many more. And Cheryl, you know,
I love nothing more than standing in front of a
jury panel that means sixty to one hundred people and
reading the indictment when the defendant has a long list
of aliases because guess what, Cheryl, most people don't have.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Aliases, That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So everybody looks there with the defendant's like, uh, why
do you have a bunch of fake names. But starting there,
I can tell you this, Cheryl. When the FEDS roll
up in front of your place in armored trucks and
we're in kevlar, you have a problem, a big problem.
And that's exactly what Sean Comes I think that's his
(01:46):
real name has right now. I have disliked Comes ever
since his blow up with j LO Jennifer Lopez, way
back back back when when a shootout started. I think
it was in a night club and she wisely broke
up with him. That's somebody knows that we haven't heard
a peep from her. I bet Ben Affleck ain't happy
(02:08):
one bit his beautiful wife was ever tangled up with
this pos But that said, I don't know anything about
their relationship. I just know that's the best day's work
she ever did, was dumping him. Here's the deal, Cheryl.
Many people are going, oh boo hoo, why did they
mess up his place? It looks so messy now. All
(02:29):
I could see were about I don't know, two or
three hundred thousand dollars of designer tennis hes on the floor.
That's what's stuck out at me. But here's what happens
during a search, especially when there are people at the
search target. We are hearing about guns as well as
sex trafficking. You do not go in to a location
(02:52):
until it is secured. If there are people there, they
have to be taken outside and searched. You can't have
anybody near a gun. Do I have to say the
name Randy Schappany do you remember Randy Cheryl McCollum. My friend,
one of the first friends I made at the District
Attorney's office was a young cop, a rookie. He was
(03:12):
nearly married. He and his wife were trying to have
a baby. And when he would come to grand jury
I believe it was Tuesdays and Fridays. I would you
speak to him, We might have a cup of coffee
if we had time. He did a simple traffic stop
and the ahle shot him dead.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right horrible.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, So when you go into these situations, you never
know what's going to happen. So hgl Yes, they detained everyone,
including Sean Combs his sons, we are told, and handcuffed them.
I mean, how do I know that there wasn't someone
in that home jacked up on meth or something else
(03:51):
that would grab a gun and start shooting. So that's
why that happened. So everybody can quit whining about that.
Can we think instead about his place being left in
a mess and occupants being detained and handcuffed about the women.
Some of the alleged victims are underage, underage, let me
(04:13):
repeat under age. They can't give consent even if they
want to to sex. So what we are getting right
now is the picture of a man with everything, money, fame,
mansions on both sides of our great country, everything he
(04:35):
could want at the tip of his fingerprints. He's won
all sorts of awards, He's been on the cover of
the Rolling Stone, you name it. Many people think he's attractive.
I don't, but many people do. All I can see
when I look at him, I just see sex trafficker.
Of course, he hasn't been proven guilty. That will happen
in a court of law. But let's think about the
(04:58):
alleged victims here. What they've been through, Threatened with losing
their jobs, being given alcohol or drugs, being transported to
have let me put in quotes, sex with multiple quote
sex partners while being videoed. Yeah, when all this comes
out in court, if we reach that day, we're going
(05:20):
to learn a lot about Sean Comes.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Absolutely, it's been alleged ray sex trafficking and other abuses.
And the deal is, Nancy, we have four women now,
but more are going to come forward.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I believe. Yeah, You're driving me to a double right now.
I'm on my second cup of tea, Cheryl my column
thinking about Sean. He did e puff puffy Comes because
here's the deal. Let me take a swig of this.
Oh lord, I'll let it get cold, Cheryl. It's hard.
I remember trying a multi millionaire for the murder of
(05:57):
his wife. What he did was he he set his
mansion on fire after he hit her in the head,
and when the fire department rolled up, he was laying
all a Romanesque across the street in the front yard
of another mansion, this beautiful manicured grass. I mean, coming
(06:17):
from bib County, rural George, I had never see anything
like it. And they said what happened? He goes, oh,
you know, my house caught on fire. It was about
a minute in before he said, oh, my wife's in there.
You know how many times I said that to the jury.
But here he was. How did he get out with
his pants, his shoes, his shirt, his wallet, his belt,
(06:40):
his keys, his glasses, and she died in there with
the big blow to the head. Anyway, my point is
he was a multimillionaire. It was just me and he
had a fleet, a fleet of expensive lawyers, all kind
of experts. My point is very hard going up against
someone one that has fame and good will from the jury.
(07:04):
It's very hard. You know, Cheryl, you met me when
I was a state violent felony crime prosecutor in superior Court.
Before that, I don't know if we ever even discussed this.
I was a fed for three years. I would go crazy, Cheryl,
because we couldn't move on a case, even though I
had amassed boxes in a whole I had a whole
(07:27):
room devoted to my boxes of evidence across from my office,
but we couldn't move because the Feds weren't ready. Okay,
it took forever, which is one of the reasons I
become a felony prosecutor, because it's a much more rapid
pace of prosecution. So I'm telling you, the FEDS did
(07:48):
not just roll up in comes this front yard and
execute a search warrant on simultaneous search warrants if they
don't already have him dead to rights.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I am so oh glad you said that, because you're
talking about a home in LA and Miami simultaneously. But
then they started to arrest some of his associates, and
now simultaneously his business partners have all gotten subpoenas. That
tells me just how confident they are in their case.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, because now everybody's going to start trying to cut deals.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Mmmmm.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
The alleged drug mule has been arrested at Miami Airport.
He's going to turn a deal. There's no way, because
a drug mule can get life behind bars with the Feds.
They don't play. They're not cutting any deal with anybody.
They don't need to. So they probably got Diddy all
(08:45):
all kinds of ways, left, right and upside down. They
may have done wire taps. You see. People are going
to roll over so they don't do life behind bars,
so they don't get accomplished to sex trafficking charges. Anybody
that helped comes do this can go down as they should.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And another thing that he's done, he's pretty much had
his entire life and career on videotape. So a lot
of these associations, we're going to be able to see
them live and in color.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You make it sound like the local Kawana's Club. What
association a buck of pimps getting together. I don't care
how much money they have. They're pimps. If these allegations
are true, you know, think about it. You know what,
this is not a hard luck story because I have
everything in the world I could possibly want. I have
the twins, I have David, I got you, I've got
(09:38):
my mom still with me. I've got friends that I
work with, friends from the DA's office. I am so blessed.
I mean like I hate to ever even pray to
God for any help because I'm already so blessed. But
think about it, Cheryl. You know how I grew up,
(09:59):
you know, on red dirt road in the middle of nowhere,
with well my grandfather Doug in the backyard pumping out
red water, muddy water, and you know, getting the bookmobile.
That's how I got books over the summer that come
out to the quote underprivileged families and so the children
(10:20):
would have books to read over the sum I just
thought it was wonderful because you know, that's the first
time I had ever had air conditioned. I did not
want to read the bookmobile. I thought it was the
best thing that ever happened. That said, I mean, I
had an idealic childhood. But look at what Diddy has
everything everything, mansions, money, beautiful cars. I see him in
(10:45):
a fur coat with every new album, I mean a
new I mean, he's got everything. And it always confounds me, Cheryl,
how somebody that seemingly has everything is driven to do
such horrible crimes. I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I've always told people money makes you more of what
you really are.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Ooh, did you make that up? I did.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That's what you really are. That's true, Cheryl McCollum. It
is true. You are loving and kind and given. The
more you have, the more you do for other people.
Look what you do for the Methodist Home. Look what
you've done for domestic violence victims. You give, and you
give and you give. If somebody is not that money
is going to show that too. Big time can't hide
(11:36):
who you are. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Okay, By the way, I think I said that first.
Now now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure from.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Me that could be true. I have stolen a lot
from you. There ain't no doubt. There is no doubt
Sometimes I'll even start a speech and I'll say, have
y'all ever heard of Nancy Grace? And if they say no, honey,
I lost right into some of your good stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So can I just tell you about a speech I
just gave down in Hey, Hi, Georgia, Oh I love
ay Aara. It was the Children's Advocacy What was the
name of it? And I saw these workers just devoting themselves.
I'm looking at right now, Children's Advocacy Center, Children's Advocacy Center.
(12:22):
You know, they had a skeleton staff and they were
trying to raise money. And I gave a speech, and
you know, it never fails. I choke up every time
I talk about certain cases that I remember. You know,
that never goes away. And that's just me having prosecuted them.
Think about these alleged victims. You know what I was
(12:45):
reading just this morning, Cheryl. I was reading about how
Gypsy Rose Blanchard. You know, her mother abused her and
made her pretend to be deathly ill, claiming she had cancer.
She had all these forced operations on her, she'd shave
her head or teeth fell out, horrible mistreatment. It just
came out that and she killed her mother. That she
(13:09):
she got out of jail finally, and she married someone.
They just broke up after three months. Okay, I'm not
saying she didn't murder her mother. I'm not saying that
that's not wrong. What I am saying is, once you
suffer trauma, you are never the same. You're never the same.
I'm just thinking about these alleged victims, what they went through,
(13:33):
and it's going to be made out that they did
whatever they had to do for money. That's that's going
to be a defense. But can you say that about underaged,
underage girls. I know you can't.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think it's going to be deeper and wider and uglier.
And they have it right.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You said that about Michael Jackson too, and so did I.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah. So Sebastian Rogers, Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, missing
autistic fifteen year old, no shoes, no cell phone, no
way to get anywhere, and it got down to at
least forty degrees that we know of, and he's been
(14:13):
gone a long time. His mama and stepdaddy are unusual
in the way they answer questions. They seem very vague.
It's almost like they're trying to be polite when they
were talking to you. Everything was yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am,
But then they offer nothing else. If you honestly believed
(14:35):
that your child was missing, you would be out twenty
four hours a day your self, searchant, calling his name,
putting up flowers, begging for help. But they've left the home.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yes, I've gotten a lot of heat about my interview
with them, but I have found this Cheryl. Everybody wanted
me to t and feather them, tear them apart, and
yes I could have done that, But you know what
I want to share on More than I wanted to
(15:10):
vent anger and frustration over Sebastian's disappearance, I wanted facts.
I wanted to find out things that I had not
found out yet before. It was a fact finding mission,
not a judging arena. I tried to hold back incredulity,
(15:32):
smart ass comments that it would have been cheap shots
I could have easily taken. To find out a lot
about what cars were there. I'm very curious, were cars
moved in the middle of the night, what were the
making models? I want to find out if they've got
a NAV system in them, just all sorts of minute
details that matter. Is their emotion activated light on security
(15:58):
lights on their home, did they activate? How far away
did the neighbors live, Just all sorts of things that
I would want to know to build a case, not
necessarily against them, but against whoever got Sebastian out of
that house.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Nancy, you did a beautiful job. You did an outstanding job.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You think I care what people online say? If I
cared about that, I'd be under the bed hiding right now.
No task could ever be completed, no dream would ever
come true.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Amen, But you did a beautiful job. You found out
that he hit him with a belt in the past.
You found out CPS was involved. You found out they
locked their doors, they don't have an alarm, they don't
have emotion sensor. That he's willing to take a polygraph
if you set it up. You did an outstanding job
building what everybody needed to hear them say.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, you know, there is a time to raise hell,
and that time is when you have the facts and
you know that you're right. I'm fact finding right now
and I'm still fact finding. I see a lot of infighting.
I see a lot of attacks on the Cajun the
Cajun Navy, who's trying their best to help but I
(17:13):
really think that now is the time for everyone to
band together to try to find Sebastian. I'm afraid Sebastian
is no longer alive because it's been so long with
no one coming forward, no one having spotted him, no credible,
(17:36):
credible sightings of him. That is very disturbing to me. Now,
think about it, Cheryl, if this boy, autistic boy was
on foot, how far could he have gotten? He was
not in the retention pond. I already know that was drained.
I'm getting conflicting reports as to whether the dog's K
(17:58):
nine or cadaver hit truly hit outside the home. We've
been told by Elie law enforcement they did not, but
Sebastian's mom said they did. What does that mean? I
can extrapolate from that, but I don't know what that means.
But I tell you this, the best witness I've ever
(18:18):
put on the stand was a dog.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I believe a dog over a human any day. So
that how far could he really have gotten? And wouldn't
we have found him by now if he had left
on foot. That's factoring into my deductions. But the United
Cage and Navy has kicked off a search for him.
A law was made about a false hit. Now, when
(18:45):
I say false hit by dogs, I had it explained
to me by the Cage and Navy. This is what happened.
There was a hit, but it was in a on
federal land near a railroad where a lot of homeless
people have been living, and it had been closed off.
And the hit was not about Sebastian. It was on
(19:09):
another person. It was not on Sebastian. There was a
lot of excitement when we heard a dog got a
hit in this federal land. It had nothing to do
with this case. And I've clarified that. I was happy
and sad at the same time when I found out
about the hit. But I don't want to give up
hope yet. But it's been a while now that Sebastian's
(19:32):
been gone. Where is he? Could he really be hiding
in a shed or in an out out? You know,
the curtilage garage is set in a shed of tool house.
That doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, not after three days, six days, nine days. I mean,
it's getting too long, way too long. But you mentioned dog,
and that was one thing that I wanted to say,
that they had dogs in the home, so they didn't
hear the dogs barking. There was no forced entry. Nothing's
missing of value other than the child. But I'm saying
(20:06):
it wasn't like a burglary.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Also exactly, and that also very very important, Cheryl. I
asked the mother about his social media and she said
he didn't have any other than playing games. Then I
questioned her about of course, you know, when my son
John David plays Minecraft or whatever he's playing, I always
ask who are you playing with? And I find out
(20:28):
who's on I'm like, don't ever ever play with people
you don't know in real life because this could be
some creepy purve, you know, out of Alaska and New Jersey,
far far away. Is my point, that you don't know,
you don't know, you have to only play with people
you know. But did he know that? No, so the
(20:49):
mom tells me he didn't have that kind of internet access,
So that if that's true, that rules out him being
groomed online secretively and taken by a purpose. So where
does that leave me? If he hasn't wandered away on foot,
if he wasn't grimmed, if the dad, who I believe
the bio dad, I do believe he was far away
(21:10):
and had nothing to do with this. Where does that
leave me? And I'll leave you to your own conclusions
until the investigations time.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Coburger. Oh, so the defense team is making phone calls
to folks potential jurors and they're giving them some type
of survey. Now, when I first heard it, I'm like,
what in the world, Like I can't imagine just my
phone ringing and then hey, I want to give you
(21:42):
a survey about Coburger. How much do you know about
the case whatever? And apparently they've called four hundred people.
But then I thought different of it, But I want
to get your opinion.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well, I think this's jury tampering. Yes, Brian Coburger's defense
team has been trying to quote survey potential gurrrs. It's
been mixed by the judge. Now his defense team is
whining about it. After the judge ordered both sides to
stay away from potential grrs ahead of the change of
(22:15):
in you hearing that's coming up. They want to change
of in you. I would argue that they have poisoned
their own wealth. They're the ones that are making these calls.
It's like you here, here's something that every good appellate
lawyer knows appellate what does that mean? That means after
there's a conviction. Of course, the the defendant appeals, you
(22:40):
very often bring in the appellate team, not a trial lawyer,
the appellate team within the district attorney's office that does
nothing but write appeals. I always insisted that I write
my own appeals and go to the appellate court, be
at Georgia Court of Appeals or the Georgia Supreme Court
to argue my own case because I wanted to make
(23:01):
sure that it was done. Let me just say, whole hog,
I mean somebody that really cared about holding that conviction,
who I felt I cared. So I would typically do
my own appellate arguments in brief. But that said, if
you cause you the defense caused the error at trial,
(23:25):
you cannot then complain about it on appill. For instance,
in Alex Murdog, the idiot defense lawyer actually he's won
a lot of cases, opened the door and the jury
found out because of the defense about all the millions
and millions of dollars Murdog had stolen, which really gave
them him a motive for murder. Right, that was the
(23:49):
defense problem. They did that. That's now not a ground
for appill they brought it. They did it to themselves.
Now here's another issue. I don't want to go to
deaf con for. But once the lawyer does that, you
can also argue it was in effective assistance of counsel
because the lawyer did that. So you're between a rock
and a hardspot. That said, the defense has brought on
(24:12):
a problem, they can't complain about it if there's a conviction.
They have tainted, have poisoned the jury pool by this survey. Now,
yes they're wrong, but just because the other person is
wrong and you win the argument doesn't mean you win
the war. If they don't grant a change of venue,
(24:36):
even though the defense has caused the problem, later on,
it could be argued that that's reversible error. So I
would go along with the change of venue, even though
I didn't want to.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Really smart, here's what I thought. I thought, you know
what they're doing. They're getting to that jury first, they're
set in the tone. They're going to ask these questions
to feel them out so that they are more prepared
for what are So if there's something that really offends
the majority of these four hundred people. They're going to
toss that out. That's what I think they were doing.
(25:08):
They were playing this game first.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Now here's another thing. The defense lawyer and Taylor just
wrote a motion to resind the judge. His name is
Judge Judge. Judge is actually his last name. Okay, there
was a late Friday afternoon filing, and I find that
to be a strategy to shut down this survey. I'm
(25:35):
very curious about what the defense was thinking, and I
want to hear the reaction of some of the people
that were being quote surveyed. Now, the defense claims they
were just trying to get evidence to support their application
for change of venue. See what I mean, like, Hey,
have you heard about the case? What have you heard
about the case? Have you already reached an opinion? That's
(25:56):
what you do when you strike a jury. You don't
take the pool ahead of time. One hundred residents subjected
to the defense telephone survey. By the way, I found out,
the hardest psychologist, Brian Edelman, to conduct the polling. The
defense is trying to wiggle out of it by claiming
many of his questions dealt with media influence, and the
(26:19):
state is arguing that everything that they did was not
factually correct. So I mean the judge's going to have
a fit, or he should have a fit. But what
I'm really upset about. I mean, I already know there's
going to be a change of venu, so this is
kind of like we're moving changing in you anyway. So
what does that matter except now we know the defense
(26:40):
will cheat. What worries me more is putting this case
off three years past the murders. That's not fair to
the families or the witnesses.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Amen, Amen, it's not Listen. I know you've got other
things to do today, and I appreciate you. This is
just our first true crime rodeo, so I appreciate y'all
being with us for this roundup.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Cheryl McCollum, before you leave, I want to hear one
story from our days together in the courtroom one and
we have not rehearsed this, everybody. I can't wait to
hear what she's going to say. Well, you look great
and me look bad.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But go ahead, remember that time that I gave you
advice on the closing argument. No, I'm just kidding. You
mentioned the dog as a witness, So I will just
tell that story. Nancy absolutely called a dog as a witness,
brought the dog in, put him right up there in
front of God and country, and the defense attorney, as
you can imagine, lost their mind. And Nancy Gray said,
(27:42):
and I quote, it's not a problem. Don't worry. You'll
have a chance to cross examine him.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That's exactly what happened. And I thought the defense attorney,
I can still remember his face right now. He turned
so red. I thought his head was going to blow off.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Anyway, that was in front of one of my favorite
judges of all times, Luther Alverson and Cheryl I've told
you this when I got into his courtroom. He was
the oldest judge on the bench in Fulton County Superior Court,
and he was grandfathered in because he was on the
bench before mandatory retirement happened. And this is this thing.
(28:20):
Do you know this man ran a mile every morning.
He was in his eighties, and he was hell bent
on trying more cases than any other judge in the
courthouse to show that he was still sharpest attack, which
meant the da assigned to his courtroom had to trycases
every other week. That's how I ended up trying all
those cases. This thank toul Luther Alverson. And it was
(28:42):
there I brought on the dog witness and the dog,
the dog was a start, not me. Yeah, you got
a good memory. Okay, you just keep making yourself look good.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Cheryl McCollum, Thank you so much, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Okay, my friend. Bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this zone's heaven by everybody. M
Y'all, we have the one and only Nancy Grace with
us for a true crime round up. Back in the day,
we would often get together on Fridays and assess the
week and plan and prepare for Monday, and Nancy would
call it a round up. So I'm gonna get right
to it and let Miss Grace take over. So let's
(00:30):
talk first about Sean Puffy Combs aka P Diddy. So
the Feds hit two of his homes, one in LA
and one in Miami. What did you think when you
heard that?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Okay, number one. I don't know how I feel about
calling it a round up because you make cases sound
like cows or pigs of some sort. But that said,
Sean P. Diddy comes aka Puff aka puff Daddy aka Diddy.
(01:05):
I mean, there's so many more. And Cheryl, you know,
I love nothing more than standing in front of a
jury panel that means sixty to one hundred people and
reading the indictment when the defendant has a long list
of aliases because guess what, Cheryl, most people don't have.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Aliases, That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
So everybody looks there with the defendant's like, uh, why
do you have a bunch of fake names. But starting there,
I can tell you this, Cheryl. When the FEDS roll
up in front of your place in armored trucks and
we're in kevlar, you have a problem, a big problem.
And that's exactly what Sean Comes I think that's his
(01:46):
real name has right now. I have disliked Comes ever
since his blow up with j LO Jennifer Lopez, way
back back back when when a shootout started. I think
it was in a night club and she wisely broke
up with him. That's somebody knows that we haven't heard
a peep from her. I bet Ben Affleck ain't happy
(02:08):
one bit his beautiful wife was ever tangled up with
this pos But that said, I don't know anything about
their relationship. I just know that's the best day's work
she ever did, was dumping him. Here's the deal, Cheryl.
Many people are going, oh boo hoo, why did they
mess up his place? It looks so messy now. All
(02:29):
I could see were about I don't know, two or
three hundred thousand dollars of designer tennis hes on the floor.
That's what's stuck out at me. But here's what happens
during a search, especially when there are people at the
search target. We are hearing about guns as well as
sex trafficking. You do not go in to a location
(02:52):
until it is secured. If there are people there, they
have to be taken outside and searched. You can't have
anybody near a gun. Do I have to say the
name Randy Schappany do you remember Randy Cheryl McCollum. My friend,
one of the first friends I made at the District
Attorney's office was a young cop, a rookie. He was
(03:12):
nearly married. He and his wife were trying to have
a baby. And when he would come to grand jury
I believe it was Tuesdays and Fridays. I would you
speak to him, We might have a cup of coffee
if we had time. He did a simple traffic stop
and the ahle shot him dead.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Right horrible.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, So when you go into these situations, you never
know what's going to happen. So hgl Yes, they detained everyone,
including Sean Combs his sons, we are told, and handcuffed them.
I mean, how do I know that there wasn't someone
in that home jacked up on meth or something else
(03:51):
that would grab a gun and start shooting. So that's
why that happened. So everybody can quit whining about that.
Can we think instead about his place being left in
a mess and occupants being detained and handcuffed about the women.
Some of the alleged victims are underage, underage, let me
(04:13):
repeat under age. They can't give consent even if they
want to to sex. So what we are getting right
now is the picture of a man with everything, money, fame,
mansions on both sides of our great country, everything he
(04:35):
could want at the tip of his fingerprints. He's won
all sorts of awards, He's been on the cover of
the Rolling Stone, you name it. Many people think he's attractive.
I don't, but many people do. All I can see
when I look at him, I just see sex trafficker.
Of course, he hasn't been proven guilty. That will happen
in a court of law. But let's think about the
(04:58):
alleged victims here. What they've been through, Threatened with losing
their jobs, being given alcohol or drugs, being transported to
have let me put in quotes, sex with multiple quote
sex partners while being videoed. Yeah, when all this comes
out in court, if we reach that day, we're going
(05:20):
to learn a lot about Sean Comes.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Absolutely, it's been alleged ray sex trafficking and other abuses.
And the deal is, Nancy, we have four women now,
but more are going to come forward.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
I believe. Yeah, You're driving me to a double right now.
I'm on my second cup of tea, Cheryl my column
thinking about Sean. He did e puff puffy Comes because
here's the deal. Let me take a swig of this.
Oh lord, I'll let it get cold, Cheryl. It's hard.
I remember trying a multi millionaire for the murder of
(05:57):
his wife. What he did was he he set his
mansion on fire after he hit her in the head,
and when the fire department rolled up, he was laying
all a Romanesque across the street in the front yard
of another mansion, this beautiful manicured grass. I mean, coming
(06:17):
from bib County, rural George, I had never see anything
like it. And they said what happened? He goes, oh,
you know, my house caught on fire. It was about
a minute in before he said, oh, my wife's in there.
You know how many times I said that to the jury.
But here he was. How did he get out with
his pants, his shoes, his shirt, his wallet, his belt,
(06:40):
his keys, his glasses, and she died in there with
the big blow to the head. Anyway, my point is
he was a multimillionaire. It was just me and he
had a fleet, a fleet of expensive lawyers, all kind
of experts. My point is very hard going up against
someone one that has fame and good will from the jury.
(07:04):
It's very hard. You know, Cheryl, you met me when
I was a state violent felony crime prosecutor in superior Court.
Before that, I don't know if we ever even discussed this.
I was a fed for three years. I would go crazy, Cheryl,
because we couldn't move on a case, even though I
had amassed boxes in a whole I had a whole
(07:27):
room devoted to my boxes of evidence across from my office,
but we couldn't move because the Feds weren't ready. Okay,
it took forever, which is one of the reasons I
become a felony prosecutor, because it's a much more rapid
pace of prosecution. So I'm telling you, the FEDS did
(07:48):
not just roll up in comes this front yard and
execute a search warrant on simultaneous search warrants if they
don't already have him dead to rights.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
I am so oh glad you said that, because you're
talking about a home in LA and Miami simultaneously. But
then they started to arrest some of his associates, and
now simultaneously his business partners have all gotten subpoenas. That
tells me just how confident they are in their case.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, because now everybody's going to start trying to cut deals.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Mmmmm.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
The alleged drug mule has been arrested at Miami Airport.
He's going to turn a deal. There's no way, because
a drug mule can get life behind bars with the Feds.
They don't play. They're not cutting any deal with anybody.
They don't need to. So they probably got Diddy all
(08:45):
all kinds of ways, left, right and upside down. They
may have done wire taps. You see. People are going
to roll over so they don't do life behind bars,
so they don't get accomplished to sex trafficking charges. Anybody
that helped comes do this can go down as they should.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And another thing that he's done, he's pretty much had
his entire life and career on videotape. So a lot
of these associations, we're going to be able to see
them live and in color.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
You make it sound like the local Kawana's Club. What
association a buck of pimps getting together. I don't care
how much money they have. They're pimps. If these allegations
are true, you know, think about it. You know what,
this is not a hard luck story because I have
everything in the world I could possibly want. I have
the twins, I have David, I got you, I've got
(09:38):
my mom still with me. I've got friends that I
work with, friends from the DA's office. I am so blessed.
I mean like I hate to ever even pray to
God for any help because I'm already so blessed. But
think about it, Cheryl. You know how I grew up,
(09:59):
you know, on red dirt road in the middle of nowhere,
with well my grandfather Doug in the backyard pumping out
red water, muddy water, and you know, getting the bookmobile.
That's how I got books over the summer that come
out to the quote underprivileged families and so the children
(10:20):
would have books to read over the sum I just
thought it was wonderful because you know, that's the first
time I had ever had air conditioned. I did not
want to read the bookmobile. I thought it was the
best thing that ever happened. That said, I mean, I
had an idealic childhood. But look at what Diddy has
everything everything, mansions, money, beautiful cars. I see him in
(10:45):
a fur coat with every new album, I mean a
new I mean, he's got everything. And it always confounds me, Cheryl,
how somebody that seemingly has everything is driven to do
such horrible crimes. I don't get it.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
I've always told people money makes you more of what
you really are.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Ooh, did you make that up? I did.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
That's what you really are. That's true, Cheryl McCollum. It
is true. You are loving and kind and given. The
more you have, the more you do for other people.
Look what you do for the Methodist Home. Look what
you've done for domestic violence victims. You give, and you
give and you give. If somebody is not that money
is going to show that too. Big time can't hide
(11:36):
who you are. I'm telling you.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Okay, By the way, I think I said that first.
Now now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure from.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Me that could be true. I have stolen a lot
from you. There ain't no doubt. There is no doubt
Sometimes I'll even start a speech and I'll say, have
y'all ever heard of Nancy Grace? And if they say no, honey,
I lost right into some of your good stuff.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So can I just tell you about a speech I
just gave down in Hey, Hi, Georgia, Oh I love
ay Aara. It was the Children's Advocacy What was the
name of it? And I saw these workers just devoting themselves.
I'm looking at right now, Children's Advocacy Center, Children's Advocacy Center.
(12:22):
You know, they had a skeleton staff and they were
trying to raise money. And I gave a speech, and
you know, it never fails. I choke up every time
I talk about certain cases that I remember. You know,
that never goes away. And that's just me having prosecuted them.
Think about these alleged victims. You know what I was
(12:45):
reading just this morning, Cheryl. I was reading about how
Gypsy Rose Blanchard. You know, her mother abused her and
made her pretend to be deathly ill, claiming she had cancer.
She had all these forced operations on her, she'd shave
her head or teeth fell out, horrible mistreatment. It just
came out that and she killed her mother. That she
(13:09):
she got out of jail finally, and she married someone.
They just broke up after three months. Okay, I'm not
saying she didn't murder her mother. I'm not saying that
that's not wrong. What I am saying is, once you
suffer trauma, you are never the same. You're never the same.
I'm just thinking about these alleged victims, what they went through,
(13:33):
and it's going to be made out that they did
whatever they had to do for money. That's that's going
to be a defense. But can you say that about underaged,
underage girls. I know you can't.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
I think it's going to be deeper and wider and uglier.
And they have it right.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
You said that about Michael Jackson too, and so did I.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah. So Sebastian Rogers, Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, missing
autistic fifteen year old, no shoes, no cell phone, no
way to get anywhere, and it got down to at
least forty degrees that we know of, and he's been
(14:13):
gone a long time. His mama and stepdaddy are unusual
in the way they answer questions. They seem very vague.
It's almost like they're trying to be polite when they
were talking to you. Everything was yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am,
But then they offer nothing else. If you honestly believed
(14:35):
that your child was missing, you would be out twenty
four hours a day your self, searchant, calling his name,
putting up flowers, begging for help. But they've left the home.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yes, I've gotten a lot of heat about my interview
with them, but I have found this Cheryl. Everybody wanted
me to t and feather them, tear them apart, and
yes I could have done that, But you know what
I want to share on More than I wanted to
(15:10):
vent anger and frustration over Sebastian's disappearance, I wanted facts.
I wanted to find out things that I had not
found out yet before. It was a fact finding mission,
not a judging arena. I tried to hold back incredulity,
(15:32):
smart ass comments that it would have been cheap shots
I could have easily taken. To find out a lot
about what cars were there. I'm very curious, were cars
moved in the middle of the night, what were the
making models? I want to find out if they've got
a NAV system in them, just all sorts of minute
details that matter. Is their emotion activated light on security
(15:58):
lights on their home, did they activate? How far away
did the neighbors live, Just all sorts of things that
I would want to know to build a case, not
necessarily against them, but against whoever got Sebastian out of
that house.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Nancy, you did a beautiful job. You did an outstanding job.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
You think I care what people online say? If I
cared about that, I'd be under the bed hiding right now.
No task could ever be completed, no dream would ever
come true.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Amen, But you did a beautiful job. You found out
that he hit him with a belt in the past.
You found out CPS was involved. You found out they
locked their doors, they don't have an alarm, they don't
have emotion sensor. That he's willing to take a polygraph
if you set it up. You did an outstanding job
building what everybody needed to hear them say.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, you know, there is a time to raise hell,
and that time is when you have the facts and
you know that you're right. I'm fact finding right now
and I'm still fact finding. I see a lot of infighting.
I see a lot of attacks on the Cajun the
Cajun Navy, who's trying their best to help but I
(17:13):
really think that now is the time for everyone to
band together to try to find Sebastian. I'm afraid Sebastian
is no longer alive because it's been so long with
no one coming forward, no one having spotted him, no credible,
(17:36):
credible sightings of him. That is very disturbing to me. Now,
think about it, Cheryl, if this boy, autistic boy was
on foot, how far could he have gotten? He was
not in the retention pond. I already know that was drained.
I'm getting conflicting reports as to whether the dog's K
(17:58):
nine or cadaver hit truly hit outside the home. We've
been told by Elie law enforcement they did not, but
Sebastian's mom said they did. What does that mean? I
can extrapolate from that, but I don't know what that means.
But I tell you this, the best witness I've ever
(18:18):
put on the stand was a dog.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Amen.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
I believe a dog over a human any day. So
that how far could he really have gotten? And wouldn't
we have found him by now if he had left
on foot. That's factoring into my deductions. But the United
Cage and Navy has kicked off a search for him.
A law was made about a false hit. Now, when
(18:45):
I say false hit by dogs, I had it explained
to me by the Cage and Navy. This is what happened.
There was a hit, but it was in a on
federal land near a railroad where a lot of homeless
people have been living, and it had been closed off.
And the hit was not about Sebastian. It was on
(19:09):
another person. It was not on Sebastian. There was a
lot of excitement when we heard a dog got a
hit in this federal land. It had nothing to do
with this case. And I've clarified that. I was happy
and sad at the same time when I found out
about the hit. But I don't want to give up
hope yet. But it's been a while now that Sebastian's
(19:32):
been gone. Where is he? Could he really be hiding
in a shed or in an out out? You know,
the curtilage garage is set in a shed of tool house.
That doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
No, not after three days, six days, nine days. I mean,
it's getting too long, way too long. But you mentioned dog,
and that was one thing that I wanted to say,
that they had dogs in the home, so they didn't
hear the dogs barking. There was no forced entry. Nothing's
missing of value other than the child. But I'm saying
(20:06):
it wasn't like a burglary.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Also exactly, and that also very very important, Cheryl. I
asked the mother about his social media and she said
he didn't have any other than playing games. Then I
questioned her about of course, you know, when my son
John David plays Minecraft or whatever he's playing, I always
ask who are you playing with? And I find out
(20:28):
who's on I'm like, don't ever ever play with people
you don't know in real life because this could be
some creepy purve, you know, out of Alaska and New Jersey,
far far away. Is my point, that you don't know,
you don't know, you have to only play with people
you know. But did he know that? No, so the
(20:49):
mom tells me he didn't have that kind of internet access,
So that if that's true, that rules out him being
groomed online secretively and taken by a purpose. So where
does that leave me? If he hasn't wandered away on foot,
if he wasn't grimmed, if the dad, who I believe
the bio dad, I do believe he was far away
(21:10):
and had nothing to do with this. Where does that
leave me? And I'll leave you to your own conclusions
until the investigations time.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Coburger. Oh, so the defense team is making phone calls
to folks potential jurors and they're giving them some type
of survey. Now, when I first heard it, I'm like,
what in the world, Like I can't imagine just my
phone ringing and then hey, I want to give you
(21:42):
a survey about Coburger. How much do you know about
the case whatever? And apparently they've called four hundred people.
But then I thought different of it, But I want
to get your opinion.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Well, I think this's jury tampering. Yes, Brian Coburger's defense
team has been trying to quote survey potential gurrrs. It's
been mixed by the judge. Now his defense team is
whining about it. After the judge ordered both sides to
stay away from potential grrs ahead of the change of
(22:15):
in you hearing that's coming up. They want to change
of in you. I would argue that they have poisoned
their own wealth. They're the ones that are making these calls.
It's like you here, here's something that every good appellate
lawyer knows appellate what does that mean? That means after
there's a conviction. Of course, the the defendant appeals, you
(22:40):
very often bring in the appellate team, not a trial lawyer,
the appellate team within the district attorney's office that does
nothing but write appeals. I always insisted that I write
my own appeals and go to the appellate court, be
at Georgia Court of Appeals or the Georgia Supreme Court
to argue my own case because I wanted to make
(23:01):
sure that it was done. Let me just say, whole hog,
I mean somebody that really cared about holding that conviction,
who I felt I cared. So I would typically do
my own appellate arguments in brief. But that said, if
you cause you the defense caused the error at trial,
(23:25):
you cannot then complain about it on appill. For instance,
in Alex Murdog, the idiot defense lawyer actually he's won
a lot of cases, opened the door and the jury
found out because of the defense about all the millions
and millions of dollars Murdog had stolen, which really gave
them him a motive for murder. Right, that was the
(23:49):
defense problem. They did that. That's now not a ground
for appill they brought it. They did it to themselves.
Now here's another issue. I don't want to go to
deaf con for. But once the lawyer does that, you
can also argue it was in effective assistance of counsel
because the lawyer did that. So you're between a rock
and a hardspot. That said, the defense has brought on
(24:12):
a problem, they can't complain about it if there's a conviction.
They have tainted, have poisoned the jury pool by this survey. Now,
yes they're wrong, but just because the other person is
wrong and you win the argument doesn't mean you win
the war. If they don't grant a change of venue,
(24:36):
even though the defense has caused the problem, later on,
it could be argued that that's reversible error. So I
would go along with the change of venue, even though
I didn't want to.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Really smart, here's what I thought. I thought, you know
what they're doing. They're getting to that jury first, they're
set in the tone. They're going to ask these questions
to feel them out so that they are more prepared
for what are So if there's something that really offends
the majority of these four hundred people. They're going to
toss that out. That's what I think they were doing.
(25:08):
They were playing this game first.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Now here's another thing. The defense lawyer and Taylor just
wrote a motion to resind the judge. His name is
Judge Judge. Judge is actually his last name. Okay, there
was a late Friday afternoon filing, and I find that
to be a strategy to shut down this survey. I'm
(25:35):
very curious about what the defense was thinking, and I
want to hear the reaction of some of the people
that were being quote surveyed. Now, the defense claims they
were just trying to get evidence to support their application
for change of venue. See what I mean, like, Hey,
have you heard about the case? What have you heard
about the case? Have you already reached an opinion? That's
(25:56):
what you do when you strike a jury. You don't
take the pool ahead of time. One hundred residents subjected
to the defense telephone survey. By the way, I found out,
the hardest psychologist, Brian Edelman, to conduct the polling. The
defense is trying to wiggle out of it by claiming
many of his questions dealt with media influence, and the
(26:19):
state is arguing that everything that they did was not
factually correct. So I mean the judge's going to have
a fit, or he should have a fit. But what
I'm really upset about. I mean, I already know there's
going to be a change of venu, so this is
kind of like we're moving changing in you anyway. So
what does that matter except now we know the defense
(26:40):
will cheat. What worries me more is putting this case
off three years past the murders. That's not fair to
the families or the witnesses.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Amen, Amen, it's not Listen. I know you've got other
things to do today, and I appreciate you. This is
just our first true crime rodeo, so I appreciate y'all
being with us for this roundup.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Cheryl McCollum, before you leave, I want to hear one
story from our days together in the courtroom one and
we have not rehearsed this, everybody. I can't wait to
hear what she's going to say. Well, you look great
and me look bad.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But go ahead, remember that time that I gave you
advice on the closing argument. No, I'm just kidding. You
mentioned the dog as a witness, So I will just
tell that story. Nancy absolutely called a dog as a witness,
brought the dog in, put him right up there in
front of God and country, and the defense attorney, as
you can imagine, lost their mind. And Nancy Gray said,
(27:42):
and I quote, it's not a problem. Don't worry. You'll
have a chance to cross examine him.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
That's exactly what happened. And I thought the defense attorney,
I can still remember his face right now. He turned
so red. I thought his head was going to blow off.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Anyway, that was in front of one of my favorite
judges of all times, Luther Alverson and Cheryl I've told
you this when I got into his courtroom. He was
the oldest judge on the bench in Fulton County Superior Court,
and he was grandfathered in because he was on the
bench before mandatory retirement happened. And this is this thing.
(28:20):
Do you know this man ran a mile every morning.
He was in his eighties, and he was hell bent
on trying more cases than any other judge in the
courthouse to show that he was still sharpest attack, which
meant the da assigned to his courtroom had to trycases
every other week. That's how I ended up trying all
those cases. This thank toul Luther Alverson. And it was
(28:42):
there I brought on the dog witness and the dog,
the dog was a start, not me. Yeah, you got
a good memory. Okay, you just keep making yourself look good.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Cheryl McCollum, Thank you so much, ma'am.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Okay, my friend. Bye everybody.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this zone's heaven by everybody. M
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