April 17, 2024 • 26 mins
March 30, 2024, Veronica Butler and her friend Julian Kelly were traveling from Kansas to Oklahoma to pick up Veronica's children for a birthday party when they disappeared. Their abandoned car was found 3 miles from the intended meeting spot, on a desolate dirt road a thousand feet off the main highway. Arrests have been made.
Guest Bio and Links:
Laura Ingle is an award-winning veteran broadcast journalist specializing in True Crime. She served as a Senior Correspondent with Fox News Channel for nearly 20 years from August 2005-June 2023 based in New York City. Laura has been covering the disappearance of Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelly. She has been on the ground in Oklahoma, providing firsthand updates and analysis.
Listeners can learn more about Laura on X @lauraingle and IG @lauraingletv
In this episode of Zone 7, Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum brings Laura Ingle back to give the breaking news of four arrests made in the two women missing in Oaklahoma case. Four arrests have been made, including the grandmother of Butler's children, Tiffany Adams. Tad Bert Cullum, Cole Twombly, and Cora Twombly were also arrested and charged with murder, kidnapping and conspiracy to commit murder. Laura discusses the evidence found, the heroic actions of the 16-year old daughter of one of the suspects, along with the heartbreaking realities for the children left without their mothers.
Show Notes:
- [0:00] Welcome back to Zone 7 with Crime Scene Investigator, Sheryl McCollum
- [0:50] Breaking news of four arrests in the Oaklahoma case
- [3:00] “When you're looking at means, motive, and opportunity, the biggest motive here are those children.”
- [4:00] C.W 16-year-old was key player of giving investigators information
- [6:00] Analysis of the affidavit - evidence of tasers, burner phones, and a brutal crime scene
- [10:00] Revelations of previous murder attempts
- [16:00] Details on where the children were during the incident
- [26:10] “But it's the children who ended up suffering and will suffer now.”
- Thanks for listening to another episode! If you’re loving the show and want to help grow the show, please head over to Itunes and leave a rating and review!
---
Sheryl “Mac” McCollum is an Emmy Award winning CSI, a writer for CrimeOnLine, Forensic and Crime Scene Expert for Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, and a CSI for a metro Atlanta Police Department. She is the co-author of the textbook., Cold Case: Pathways to Justice. Sheryl is also the founder and director of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, a collaboration between universities and colleges that brings researchers, practitioners, students and the criminal justice community together to advance techniques in solving cold cases and assist families and law enforcement with solvability factors for unsolved homicides, missing persons, and kidnapping cases.
Social Links:
- Email: coldcase2004@gmail.com
- Twitter: @ColdCaseTips
- Facebook: @sheryl.mccollum
- Instagram: @officialzone7podcast
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Y'all. Laura Engle and I we recorded last week and
now we've got breaking news, so we had to come
back together to breathe y'all on what has happened out
of Oklahoma. Arrest have been made of four people, and
Laura Ingle's going to be here live again to break
(00:31):
this all down, So y'all just hang on. Part two
starts right now. So Laura, you have laid it out
for us because again you have been there in person,
boots on the ground. But now we have got breaking
news that they have arrested four people. Tell us who
(00:51):
has been arrested.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, we have got a stunning turn of events. We
you know, we've long been talking about the idea that
a member could have been involved in the disappearance of
these two women because of the bitter custody battle, and
in fact, Grandma, the woman that we had been talking
about all along, is in fact one of the four
(01:14):
that was arrested. Tiffany Adams and her boyfriend Tad and
their friends Cole and Cora Twombly, who live in the
general area of where Tiffany Adams lived. And we did
hear that remain bodies have been found, but we are
(01:35):
being kept. You know, there's not a lot of details
yet in terms of exactly what happened, but now the
devastating probable cause. Affidavid lays out some items that were
found near the car of where Veronica Butler, Veronica Butler's
(01:55):
SUV that she was driving in with Gillian Kelly. There
are devastating items that we did not know about, and
you know, the OSBI has been keeping us in the dark,
obviously for good reason. But we're hearing about stun guns,
we're hearing about her that Veronica Butler's glasses were found
on the side of the road, pools of blood. So
(02:17):
you know that there were burner phones that were purchased.
There's a lot going on here that really paint a
different picture and.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Absolutely paints the picture of a conspiracy. There's no doubt
about it. And you and I talked not just why
you were live from Oklahoma, but we also had a
chance to be together in New York at the Hamptons
who done it over the weekend, and it was so
unbelievable to me. You and I were in a session
(02:45):
where Joe Scott Morgan was speaking, and he was speaking
about a case where the grandmother was the mastermind of
killing other family members, and the motive was the children.
And you and I just looked at each other because
we're like, that's what we've been saying. When you're looking
at means motive and opportunity. The biggest motive here are
(03:08):
those children. You don't fight with anybody for nine years
unless it's something you're willing to. I mean, go to
the wall and through the fire.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
For we have been well, you know, longer than I
have being an investigator. Just the stories that we hear
over and over again about you know, I was talking
to a private investigator in Oklahoma and she was telling
me about the long list of things that she deals with,
which has many and she said, the single most violent
thing that we handle in our office with our investigators
(03:42):
as child custody, it's over my dead body, you will
not get this child. And it sounds like that's the
mentality laid out There's I mean, there's a lot of
information in this probable cause Affidavid for the arrest warrants,
and you know, we've got to do it to a
hat tip, and I'm sure that you'll get there as
(04:02):
we read through this that it was a family member
the daughter of Cora Twombly. The friends. So there's like
there's Tiffany Adams and her boyfriend Tad, and then there's
this couple that they're friends with, and it was the
daughter cw Is, the daughter of Cora Twombly and Kobe White.
It sounds like was a key player in giving investigators
(04:23):
information about this case and laws.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
She's sixteen years old.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
You've got these four people that came together and conspired
to kill somebody in order to get that person's children.
And the sad part is now those children have none
of these people. And when you have a mob mentality
and you say things like tasers and burger phones and
(04:51):
blood evidence, that would suggest to me that what happened
there was chaotic and violent, and that's why people couldn't
keep up with all the things that they brought with
them and things were left behind, not on purpose, but
because it was just chaos. You probably had, you know,
(05:11):
two of the people screaming at the victims, and the
victims are screaming and they're tussling and things are happening.
So it's no shock to me. The glasses were off,
I think and tell me what you think from reading
the affidavit as well. But I think they might have
possibly bum rushed them a little bit, and whenever things
(05:33):
went down, somebody was tased, somebody might have been punched
and hit, so there was blood evidence. But I think
they were actually murdered at another place, a separate location.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, we originally thought that something happened there on
that side of the road, and I was telling you
about it, and I've been reporting on it that Rode
l And Highway ninety five. When we heard that the
vehicle was found there, you know, we thought it was
right there at the intersection, just kind of off the
main highway. But Rode ol it was one thousand feet
(06:06):
in so that that's where the vehicle was found. But
I just want to read just one part of this.
On April first, this is the probable cause affidavit that
OSBI agents obtained a search warrant for Adam's cellular phone
and OSBI agents performed an extraction on the device. Information
gained from the device included web searches for taser pain level,
(06:29):
gun shops, prepaid cellular phones, and how to get someone
out of their house. But the taser pain level somebody
wanted to know. She wanted to know. According to investigators,
this is what is in black and white in front
of us in this multi page Affidavid that she searched
(06:50):
taser pain level.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Why torture? In my opinion, Laura, if you've got four
people that are armed with a firearm or two, and
you've got two women with no weapons, that's easy to
take control of those folks. All you got to do
is stick the gun in their face. They're gonna do
whatever you say to do. If you tell them we've
(07:15):
got your children at another location. If you don't get
in this car, whoever's with your children are going to
kill them. They would have got in the car easy.
That taser, in my opinion, was to torture, was to
control them early, make them do what they were told
and get in the truck. But again, that wasn't necessary.
(07:37):
You didn't have to have it. When you hear law
enforcement during the press conference, he used the word brutal.
It was a brutal, sing well, that ain't a single
gunshot to the chest. Brutal to me signifies multiple injury.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
There are indications here in this Affidavid as well, that
you know the father wrangler Rickman, who was in the
court appointed drug rehab at the time of this apparent ambush,
he had told his grandmother, Debbie Knox Davis, named in
the Affidavid, that in mid to late February, Rickman told
(08:22):
her they weren't going to have to worry about the
custody battle much longer because quote, Adams had it under control,
and that Adams knew the path. The judge walked to
work and quote, we will take out Veronica at drop off.
He was, you know. It states that he was in
the rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of
(08:43):
the disappearance. The children had remained in the custody of Adams,
and then Rickman denied having that conversation with NOx. So
it sounds like Debbie Knox talked, Debbi Knox Davis talked,
and then they went back to Rickman and he said,
I didn't have that conversation. But that's what the other
grandma had to say, was that Adams had said, We're
(09:04):
going to take Veronica at drop off, take her out,
and that was in February.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
There's no way I'm ever gonna believe that people were
fighting over children for nine years and there ain't threats
all over creation. When you and I were in New York,
we did a short video that you put out where
we talked about the electronic devices are going to be
a money tree. They bought things, they talked about buying things.
(09:30):
They talked about how they were going to get together.
They talked about burner phones. They looked up burner phones.
But this was not the first plan that they put
together to kill this victim. Back in February, they had
a plan to kill her. Tell everybody what that was about.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I mean, according to this Alfhidavid, CW, the daughter of
Cora Twombly, remember sixteen years old, has apparently told investigators,
because it's right here in the Affidavid, that she talked
to her mom about what happened and she said it
says c W asked Cora what happened and was told
things did not go as planned, but they would not
(10:09):
have to worry about her.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Butler.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Again, CW was told that Cora and Cole blocked the
road to stop Butler and Kelly and divert them to
where Adam's, Cullum and Grys were. So there's some other
names here, But to your point about another plan. C
W also disclosed that other attempts to kill Butler occurred
during February of twenty twenty four near Hewitton, Kansas, in
(10:34):
which Adam's Cullum, Cole, Cora, and Gryce as a big
group here went to Butler's home. So, this group of
adults went to the home of Veronica Butler and they
were trying to figure out how to get her out
of their house. Because according to Cora, the plan was
to throw an Anneville through Butler's windshield while she was
(10:57):
driving to make it look like an act accident because
anvil's regularly fall off of work vehicles.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Now I want y'all to understand what is happening. We
have confirmation through this paperwork that in February they were
plotting and planning a murder to make it look like
she's just driving down the road and something fell off
a work truck went through her windshield and killed her.
What we have here is, oh, they might have been
(11:26):
having car trouble, pulled off the side of the road.
Who in the world would have got them? That's what
it almost looks like their plans obviously, I mean, I
think it's an understatement. When she says, well, it didn't
go as planned, no kidding. But my concern here is
you've listed names of people that have not been arrested yet.
We don't know how why this is going. We don't
(11:48):
know how many people have information of other murder plots
that maybe they just for whatever reason couldn't do those either.
Because in nine years they're just now going to kill.
That tells me that they believed they were going to
lose custody back to her at the court date that
was coming up this week.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And let me ask you this, Cheryl, I want to
ask you a question I am looking at I'm surprised
that this alfidevit has so many names in it that's
not redacted. I mean, these people's names are out there.
They live in that town. We've been talking about what
it's like out there. I mean, is this unusual to
have all these names listed.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Listen, you're talking about a town or two hundred and
eighty one people they already know, they already know. There
were people in the town that knew when you were there,
you knew it. There were people that probably didn't want
to talk because they knew these folks to be violent.
They knew maybe there was going to be some retribution
if they came forward. That's why I'm stunned about the
(12:49):
sixteen year old. What a hero in this whole thing. Absolutely,
and I hope they're telling her that every minute. I
hope her biological father and his family are supporting her
and bragging on her because she did something. There's a
whole lot of grown people in that town that hadn't
done And I'm going to tell you everybody that was
(13:09):
involved in this conspiracy all of February, all of March,
we're now into April fifteenth, and not one of them
stopped it. Not one of them said, y'all, we're out
of bounds here. You know, it was fine last night.
We were all drinking and mad, and yes, we want
you to have the children, but we can't kill that woman.
And we certainly can't kill a second one that had
(13:31):
nothing to do with any of the fights that the
family's been having. She's not even a family member, she
don't even live in Oklahoma. But not one of those
people stopped it. In my opinion, Now, if you're going
to have the death penalty, this is the kind of
case you use it for.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And to take another level, se double. I mean, my
heart is racing fast just thinking about being in her shoes.
And c W asked about Kelly. Jillian. Kelly, the pastor's wife,
asked her mom, it sounds like and asked why she
had to die, and she was told by Cora that
(14:12):
she wasn't innocent either, and she had supported Butler. C
W asked Cora if their bodies were put in a well,
and Cora replied something like that, you're sixteen. What were
you doing at sixteen? I know I wasn't having these
kinds of conversations.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I was trying to find Walt McCollum wherever he was.
Are you kidding? I mean, I mean I had nothing
like this to deal with. Are you joking? It was
when is Walt going to show up in his cutlass?
And what times a football game? And what's everybody wearing?
That was it? This sixteen year old has more than
likely been exposed to a whole lot, heard a whole lot.
(14:53):
I don't know how they got to her, if she
told her dad and her dad called the police, or
if she called law enforcement. I don't no, But again,
she's the hero in this thing to.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Me, and further to the devious potential that is in
the SAFFA, David, when you and I were talking, the
court had approved four people to be supervisors of these
child custody visitations, and Jill and Kelly's on the list.
She was the last person on the list, and there
(15:24):
was another person that was the favorite, Cheryl Brune. And
we want to hear from her at some point and
see what she has to say. But this court document
says that Tiffany Adams had told her to take a
few weeks off. Wow, go ahead and take a few
weeks off. You're not needed. And Cheryl Brune has since
been interviewed apparently and has said that she was available.
(15:48):
So if your name is on that list, if you're
Cheryl Brune or the other two women of the four
could have been, you could have been you do we know?
So who had the children during the actual murders. It
says here that on so this happened, the incident happens
on Saturday. Adams told the OSBI that on Friday night,
(16:11):
March twenty ninth, twenty twenty four, Rickman and Butler's children
stayed the night with Barrett and Lacey Cook. Adam said
she planned to pick them up that morning before visitation.
Adam said she called Butler at nine hundred hours to
confirm the meeting, and Butler told Adams something came up
and she was not going to make it. That's Adam's
(16:32):
talking to the police. So Butler's phone records confirmed the
call occurred. However, the time of the call. At the
time of the call, Butler was in Hugoton, Kansas, in
the process of picking Kelly up to go meet Adams.
So it sounds and it says Adams picked the children
up before twelve o'clock from the Cook's residence, so whatever
(16:52):
the time. However, the time shakes out. They were at
a couple's house named Barrett and Lacey Cook.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Okay, so they had the children placed, they had their
favorite go between out of the way. She had the
alibi for her son because he was in rehab. So
they thought they had planned this whole thing out so beautifully,
and they didn't think the babysitter was going to talk
to the other folks, much less the other people on
the list that you know, could do the exchange. They
(17:20):
thought they did this really well. The problem is the
very first time you and I talked off the record,
it was just you and I on the phone. It
was a short walk to look at Grandma. In my opinion,
even as soon as I heard it, and you and
I were saying, look, you go from a town of
(17:41):
eighteen hundred people to a town of two hundred and
sixty eight people, Your suspect poll is going to be tiny.
And then you start thinking how many people would know
about the exchange? Well, Grandma would know, the mama would know,
the court appointed person would know, and then maybe a
by logical dad, maybe you know the boyfriend. I mean,
(18:03):
you're talking about less than six people that would have
known this. And then when you told me where the
car was and you described it so beautifully, I'm like,
that's more than one person. That's more than one person
that pulled that off. There's no way if these folks
are at the gas station or your bum rushing two people,
you're not going to drive that car somewhere different. You're
(18:26):
not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And what do you think, Cheryl, in all of your
years of expertise of doing this, like, so they do it.
They and then we'll get to where, you know, we
don't have the exact location of where these women are believed.
You know, it hasn't been confirmed, and it might be
confirmed here any second, but they carry on with their lives.
(18:48):
Did they go, you know, did Tiffany go and get
the children? I want to read you from Cole Twombly's
Facebook page three days ago, a big thank you for
all the one full birthday wishes. Got to dance in
the front yard with a lovely and gracious Core Twombly,
have cake and share the evening with our new daughter
in love.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Okay, here's my opinion. The mother of your grandchildren is missing.
The best thing that's going to come from it is
she's run off with somebody, which means she has abandoned
her own children. And you're worried about your birthday dancing
with anybody. The worst thing that's going to happen is
(19:31):
somebody kidnapped her, and we know the ending if it
had turned out to be a truck or a transient person. Right,
they're not going to keep her not alive. So to me,
his birthday even crossing his mind is suspect.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Well or is it an alibi?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
You know?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Just to everything's fine. I was I was having a
birthday and I wasn't involved.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Oh, absolutely, that's what he's trying to portray. But I'm
saying the reality. I just met your precious puppy, Bailey.
If something Bailey ran off, y'all couldn't find Bailey. Are
you gonna post about your birthday? So I'm just telling you,
people give themselves away. Just like when Grandma as mad
(20:19):
as she has been for nine years about this girl.
She's no good. She's no good for my son, she's
no good for the grandchildren. I am better for those
grandchildren than their own mama. You know, she says things
like just imagine. You know, she don't keep house, she
don't cook for them, she don't take them to school
long time. You know, she's critical, right, So within five
(20:44):
minutes of her not meeting her to pick those children up,
she should have been on the phone with the court
losing her mind. I told y'all she wasn't no good,
she's sorry, she's trash. She didn't even come get these
children on this baby's birthday. Remember it was one of
the children's birthday. So when she didn't call complaining, and
(21:05):
she didn't text everybody, especially the victim, and she didn't
call the go between, y'all are both sorry y'all are
both good for nothing. This baby's sitting here crying, not
celebrating her birthday. That didn't happen, Laura, she gave herself away.
Let's talk about law enforcement for a minute. OSBI, the FBI,
(21:28):
the Oklahoma State Patrol, multiple sheriffs departments, the KBI as well.
Oh yes, they were involved as well. Thank you. They
did a magnificent job because when you and I were
at the Hamptons, you showed me the video of the
tanks and everybody rolling toward Grandma's house. They knew that
(21:51):
could have been a potential hostage situation that could have
ended really badly for everybody, could have been a devastating event.
The fact that they would follow these things privately, nobody
knew what happened, nobody knew anything was going down until
(22:11):
it was in action. I think they saved a bunch
of lives by doing it that way.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I agree. I think that you know, for all the
frustrating days and hours of us, the members of the
media calling and saying, do you have any updates? Can
you tell us anything, can you tell us what you're searching,
And the answer was always, we're investigating. We will let
you know when we have something over and over and
over again, and then you know the anchors that were,
you know, every news anchor and reporters, you know, asking
(22:39):
why don't we hear more, and the people in the
town just say, we just want something, tell us what's
going on. They can't, and time and time again it's
proven why and our team And a huge hat tip
I want to give to my colleagues Nancy lou and
Dana Levitt who were on the ground along with their
photographer Nate, who were getting ready to do a live
(23:02):
shot and saw the zoom zoom zoom, you know, going
down the street and all those cars and they got
in and they they followed them and they got really
close and we have the video of it. So now
the world has seen how this all played out. And
they had there were law enforcement officers on the road
that had guns drawn and said, you guys need to
(23:23):
get back now, and they did, of course, but that's
how close we they came. Because it was all unfolding.
There was no there's no press release saying we're about
to do a raid. You know, stand on the side
of the street so you can watch it. It was
just it was luck that day for them, and they
did a fantastic job of staying safe bringing the story
and I just can't say enough about them.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Now that video. I was, of course just knocked out
by it because I thought, Okay, it's happening, and it
is a grandma and it looks like if she has
the children, they are taking every single in the world.
So this thing does not turn into a hostage situation
where somebody's gonna take everybody out. So again, nobody's going
(24:09):
to have them if I can't have them kind of thing.
But I want everybody to know, go follow Lara Ingle.
She's at Laura Ingle on x and she's Laura Ingle
TV on Instagram. All the videos are there, and she
has been boots on the ground and she has the
videos from her colleagues and it's I mean, I think
(24:33):
it's the best reporting on this thing I've seen. I'm
just telling you, and you have been so fantastic keeping
us up to date of you know, what all is
transpired since they were reported missing, and with this new development,
I just I'm going to give you the final word
because again I think you said something so incredible when
(24:56):
we were in the Hamptons that I just want you
to repeat it for everybody to hear.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The most heartbreaking thing of all of this, of course,
are the children that are left without their mothers. And
while this has been going on for the last several weeks,
you know, you wonder how much did they know. Two
of them were really young, the other ones were older.
And you know, for Jillian's family, they were getting ready
(25:22):
to move and start a new life, and the pastor
had just got a new job and they were packing up,
and locals told me that they were halfway already moved
out of the state. So I don't know how you
know what the final move date was going to be
for the Kellys, but you just, you know, you just
keep thinking about both women. But just that happenstance that
(25:45):
Gillian took the ride that day. But on this day,
there are six children without their mothers who are living
on the planet. And now with the long list of
people not only arrested but also implication in this warrant,
we know that there are more children, especially the hero
(26:05):
of the story, c W who has told law enforcement
what she overheard a bunch of adults talk about and
what she witnessed. And she has a brother, so you
know now we're up to eight and probably more, but
it's the children who ended up suffering and we'll suffer now.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone seven
Y'all. Laura Engle and I we recorded last week and
now we've got breaking news, so we had to come
back together to breathe y'all on what has happened out
of Oklahoma. Arrest have been made of four people, and
Laura Ingle's going to be here live again to break
(00:31):
this all down, So y'all just hang on. Part two
starts right now. So Laura, you have laid it out
for us because again you have been there in person,
boots on the ground. But now we have got breaking
news that they have arrested four people. Tell us who
(00:51):
has been arrested.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, we have got a stunning turn of events. We
you know, we've long been talking about the idea that
a member could have been involved in the disappearance of
these two women because of the bitter custody battle, and
in fact, Grandma, the woman that we had been talking
about all along, is in fact one of the four
(01:14):
that was arrested. Tiffany Adams and her boyfriend Tad and
their friends Cole and Cora Twombly, who live in the
general area of where Tiffany Adams lived. And we did
hear that remain bodies have been found, but we are
(01:35):
being kept. You know, there's not a lot of details
yet in terms of exactly what happened, but now the
devastating probable cause. Affidavid lays out some items that were
found near the car of where Veronica Butler, Veronica Butler's
(01:55):
SUV that she was driving in with Gillian Kelly. There
are devastating items that we did not know about, and
you know, the OSBI has been keeping us in the dark,
obviously for good reason. But we're hearing about stun guns,
we're hearing about her that Veronica Butler's glasses were found
on the side of the road, pools of blood. So
(02:17):
you know that there were burner phones that were purchased.
There's a lot going on here that really paint a
different picture and.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
Absolutely paints the picture of a conspiracy. There's no doubt
about it. And you and I talked not just why
you were live from Oklahoma, but we also had a
chance to be together in New York at the Hamptons
who done it over the weekend, and it was so
unbelievable to me. You and I were in a session
(02:45):
where Joe Scott Morgan was speaking, and he was speaking
about a case where the grandmother was the mastermind of
killing other family members, and the motive was the children.
And you and I just looked at each other because
we're like, that's what we've been saying. When you're looking
at means motive and opportunity. The biggest motive here are
(03:08):
those children. You don't fight with anybody for nine years
unless it's something you're willing to. I mean, go to
the wall and through the fire.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
For we have been well, you know, longer than I
have being an investigator. Just the stories that we hear
over and over again about you know, I was talking
to a private investigator in Oklahoma and she was telling
me about the long list of things that she deals with,
which has many and she said, the single most violent
thing that we handle in our office with our investigators
(03:42):
as child custody, it's over my dead body, you will
not get this child. And it sounds like that's the
mentality laid out There's I mean, there's a lot of
information in this probable cause Affidavid for the arrest warrants,
and you know, we've got to do it to a
hat tip, and I'm sure that you'll get there as
(04:02):
we read through this that it was a family member
the daughter of Cora Twombly. The friends. So there's like
there's Tiffany Adams and her boyfriend Tad, and then there's
this couple that they're friends with, and it was the
daughter cw Is, the daughter of Cora Twombly and Kobe White.
It sounds like was a key player in giving investigators
(04:23):
information about this case and laws.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
She's sixteen years old.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
It's unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
You've got these four people that came together and conspired
to kill somebody in order to get that person's children.
And the sad part is now those children have none
of these people. And when you have a mob mentality
and you say things like tasers and burger phones and
(04:51):
blood evidence, that would suggest to me that what happened
there was chaotic and violent, and that's why people couldn't
keep up with all the things that they brought with
them and things were left behind, not on purpose, but
because it was just chaos. You probably had, you know,
(05:11):
two of the people screaming at the victims, and the
victims are screaming and they're tussling and things are happening.
So it's no shock to me. The glasses were off,
I think and tell me what you think from reading
the affidavit as well. But I think they might have
possibly bum rushed them a little bit, and whenever things
(05:33):
went down, somebody was tased, somebody might have been punched
and hit, so there was blood evidence. But I think
they were actually murdered at another place, a separate location.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You know, we originally thought that something happened there on
that side of the road, and I was telling you
about it, and I've been reporting on it that Rode
l And Highway ninety five. When we heard that the
vehicle was found there, you know, we thought it was
right there at the intersection, just kind of off the
main highway. But Rode ol it was one thousand feet
(06:06):
in so that that's where the vehicle was found. But
I just want to read just one part of this.
On April first, this is the probable cause affidavit that
OSBI agents obtained a search warrant for Adam's cellular phone
and OSBI agents performed an extraction on the device. Information
gained from the device included web searches for taser pain level,
(06:29):
gun shops, prepaid cellular phones, and how to get someone
out of their house. But the taser pain level somebody
wanted to know. She wanted to know. According to investigators,
this is what is in black and white in front
of us in this multi page Affidavid that she searched
(06:50):
taser pain level.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Why torture? In my opinion, Laura, if you've got four
people that are armed with a firearm or two, and
you've got two women with no weapons, that's easy to
take control of those folks. All you got to do
is stick the gun in their face. They're gonna do
whatever you say to do. If you tell them we've
(07:15):
got your children at another location. If you don't get
in this car, whoever's with your children are going to
kill them. They would have got in the car easy.
That taser, in my opinion, was to torture, was to
control them early, make them do what they were told
and get in the truck. But again, that wasn't necessary.
(07:37):
You didn't have to have it. When you hear law
enforcement during the press conference, he used the word brutal.
It was a brutal, sing well, that ain't a single
gunshot to the chest. Brutal to me signifies multiple injury.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
There are indications here in this Affidavid as well, that
you know the father wrangler Rickman, who was in the
court appointed drug rehab at the time of this apparent ambush,
he had told his grandmother, Debbie Knox Davis, named in
the Affidavid, that in mid to late February, Rickman told
(08:22):
her they weren't going to have to worry about the
custody battle much longer because quote, Adams had it under control,
and that Adams knew the path. The judge walked to
work and quote, we will take out Veronica at drop off.
He was, you know. It states that he was in
the rehabilitation facility in Oklahoma City at the time of
(08:43):
the disappearance. The children had remained in the custody of Adams,
and then Rickman denied having that conversation with NOx. So
it sounds like Debbie Knox talked, Debbi Knox Davis talked,
and then they went back to Rickman and he said,
I didn't have that conversation. But that's what the other
grandma had to say, was that Adams had said, We're
(09:04):
going to take Veronica at drop off, take her out,
and that was in February.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
There's no way I'm ever gonna believe that people were
fighting over children for nine years and there ain't threats
all over creation. When you and I were in New York,
we did a short video that you put out where
we talked about the electronic devices are going to be
a money tree. They bought things, they talked about buying things.
(09:30):
They talked about how they were going to get together.
They talked about burner phones. They looked up burner phones.
But this was not the first plan that they put
together to kill this victim. Back in February, they had
a plan to kill her. Tell everybody what that was about.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I mean, according to this Alfhidavid, CW, the daughter of
Cora Twombly, remember sixteen years old, has apparently told investigators,
because it's right here in the Affidavid, that she talked
to her mom about what happened and she said it
says c W asked Cora what happened and was told
things did not go as planned, but they would not
(10:09):
have to worry about her.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Butler.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Again, CW was told that Cora and Cole blocked the
road to stop Butler and Kelly and divert them to
where Adam's, Cullum and Grys were. So there's some other
names here, But to your point about another plan. C
W also disclosed that other attempts to kill Butler occurred
during February of twenty twenty four near Hewitton, Kansas, in
(10:34):
which Adam's Cullum, Cole, Cora, and Gryce as a big
group here went to Butler's home. So, this group of
adults went to the home of Veronica Butler and they
were trying to figure out how to get her out
of their house. Because according to Cora, the plan was
to throw an Anneville through Butler's windshield while she was
(10:57):
driving to make it look like an act accident because
anvil's regularly fall off of work vehicles.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Now I want y'all to understand what is happening. We
have confirmation through this paperwork that in February they were
plotting and planning a murder to make it look like
she's just driving down the road and something fell off
a work truck went through her windshield and killed her.
What we have here is, oh, they might have been
(11:26):
having car trouble, pulled off the side of the road.
Who in the world would have got them? That's what
it almost looks like their plans obviously, I mean, I
think it's an understatement. When she says, well, it didn't
go as planned, no kidding. But my concern here is
you've listed names of people that have not been arrested yet.
We don't know how why this is going. We don't
(11:48):
know how many people have information of other murder plots
that maybe they just for whatever reason couldn't do those either.
Because in nine years they're just now going to kill.
That tells me that they believed they were going to
lose custody back to her at the court date that
was coming up this week.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
And let me ask you this, Cheryl, I want to
ask you a question I am looking at I'm surprised
that this alfidevit has so many names in it that's
not redacted. I mean, these people's names are out there.
They live in that town. We've been talking about what
it's like out there. I mean, is this unusual to
have all these names listed.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Listen, you're talking about a town or two hundred and
eighty one people they already know, they already know. There
were people in the town that knew when you were there,
you knew it. There were people that probably didn't want
to talk because they knew these folks to be violent.
They knew maybe there was going to be some retribution
if they came forward. That's why I'm stunned about the
(12:49):
sixteen year old. What a hero in this whole thing. Absolutely,
and I hope they're telling her that every minute. I
hope her biological father and his family are supporting her
and bragging on her because she did something. There's a
whole lot of grown people in that town that hadn't
done And I'm going to tell you everybody that was
(13:09):
involved in this conspiracy all of February, all of March,
we're now into April fifteenth, and not one of them
stopped it. Not one of them said, y'all, we're out
of bounds here. You know, it was fine last night.
We were all drinking and mad, and yes, we want
you to have the children, but we can't kill that woman.
And we certainly can't kill a second one that had
(13:31):
nothing to do with any of the fights that the
family's been having. She's not even a family member, she
don't even live in Oklahoma. But not one of those
people stopped it. In my opinion, Now, if you're going
to have the death penalty, this is the kind of
case you use it for.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
And to take another level, se double. I mean, my
heart is racing fast just thinking about being in her shoes.
And c W asked about Kelly. Jillian. Kelly, the pastor's wife,
asked her mom, it sounds like and asked why she
had to die, and she was told by Cora that
(14:12):
she wasn't innocent either, and she had supported Butler. C
W asked Cora if their bodies were put in a well,
and Cora replied something like that, you're sixteen. What were
you doing at sixteen? I know I wasn't having these
kinds of conversations.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
I was trying to find Walt McCollum wherever he was.
Are you kidding? I mean, I mean I had nothing
like this to deal with. Are you joking? It was
when is Walt going to show up in his cutlass?
And what times a football game? And what's everybody wearing?
That was it? This sixteen year old has more than
likely been exposed to a whole lot, heard a whole lot.
(14:53):
I don't know how they got to her, if she
told her dad and her dad called the police, or
if she called law enforcement. I don't no, But again,
she's the hero in this thing to.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Me, and further to the devious potential that is in
the SAFFA, David, when you and I were talking, the
court had approved four people to be supervisors of these
child custody visitations, and Jill and Kelly's on the list.
She was the last person on the list, and there
(15:24):
was another person that was the favorite, Cheryl Brune. And
we want to hear from her at some point and
see what she has to say. But this court document
says that Tiffany Adams had told her to take a
few weeks off. Wow, go ahead and take a few
weeks off. You're not needed. And Cheryl Brune has since
been interviewed apparently and has said that she was available.
(15:48):
So if your name is on that list, if you're
Cheryl Brune or the other two women of the four
could have been, you could have been you do we know?
So who had the children during the actual murders. It
says here that on so this happened, the incident happens
on Saturday. Adams told the OSBI that on Friday night,
(16:11):
March twenty ninth, twenty twenty four, Rickman and Butler's children
stayed the night with Barrett and Lacey Cook. Adam said
she planned to pick them up that morning before visitation.
Adam said she called Butler at nine hundred hours to
confirm the meeting, and Butler told Adams something came up
and she was not going to make it. That's Adam's
(16:32):
talking to the police. So Butler's phone records confirmed the
call occurred. However, the time of the call. At the
time of the call, Butler was in Hugoton, Kansas, in
the process of picking Kelly up to go meet Adams.
So it sounds and it says Adams picked the children
up before twelve o'clock from the Cook's residence, so whatever
(16:52):
the time. However, the time shakes out. They were at
a couple's house named Barrett and Lacey Cook.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Okay, so they had the children placed, they had their
favorite go between out of the way. She had the
alibi for her son because he was in rehab. So
they thought they had planned this whole thing out so beautifully,
and they didn't think the babysitter was going to talk
to the other folks, much less the other people on
the list that you know, could do the exchange. They
(17:20):
thought they did this really well. The problem is the
very first time you and I talked off the record,
it was just you and I on the phone. It
was a short walk to look at Grandma. In my opinion,
even as soon as I heard it, and you and
I were saying, look, you go from a town of
(17:41):
eighteen hundred people to a town of two hundred and
sixty eight people, Your suspect poll is going to be tiny.
And then you start thinking how many people would know
about the exchange? Well, Grandma would know, the mama would know,
the court appointed person would know, and then maybe a
by logical dad, maybe you know the boyfriend. I mean,
(18:03):
you're talking about less than six people that would have
known this. And then when you told me where the
car was and you described it so beautifully, I'm like,
that's more than one person. That's more than one person
that pulled that off. There's no way if these folks
are at the gas station or your bum rushing two people,
you're not going to drive that car somewhere different. You're
(18:26):
not going to do it.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And what do you think, Cheryl, in all of your
years of expertise of doing this, like, so they do it.
They and then we'll get to where, you know, we
don't have the exact location of where these women are believed.
You know, it hasn't been confirmed, and it might be
confirmed here any second, but they carry on with their lives.
(18:48):
Did they go, you know, did Tiffany go and get
the children? I want to read you from Cole Twombly's
Facebook page three days ago, a big thank you for
all the one full birthday wishes. Got to dance in
the front yard with a lovely and gracious Core Twombly,
have cake and share the evening with our new daughter
in love.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Okay, here's my opinion. The mother of your grandchildren is missing.
The best thing that's going to come from it is
she's run off with somebody, which means she has abandoned
her own children. And you're worried about your birthday dancing
with anybody. The worst thing that's going to happen is
(19:31):
somebody kidnapped her, and we know the ending if it
had turned out to be a truck or a transient person. Right,
they're not going to keep her not alive. So to me,
his birthday even crossing his mind is suspect.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Well or is it an alibi?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
You know?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Just to everything's fine. I was I was having a
birthday and I wasn't involved.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Oh, absolutely, that's what he's trying to portray. But I'm
saying the reality. I just met your precious puppy, Bailey.
If something Bailey ran off, y'all couldn't find Bailey. Are
you gonna post about your birthday? So I'm just telling you,
people give themselves away. Just like when Grandma as mad
(20:19):
as she has been for nine years about this girl.
She's no good. She's no good for my son, she's
no good for the grandchildren. I am better for those
grandchildren than their own mama. You know, she says things
like just imagine. You know, she don't keep house, she
don't cook for them, she don't take them to school
long time. You know, she's critical, right, So within five
(20:44):
minutes of her not meeting her to pick those children up,
she should have been on the phone with the court
losing her mind. I told y'all she wasn't no good,
she's sorry, she's trash. She didn't even come get these
children on this baby's birthday. Remember it was one of
the children's birthday. So when she didn't call complaining, and
(21:05):
she didn't text everybody, especially the victim, and she didn't
call the go between, y'all are both sorry y'all are
both good for nothing. This baby's sitting here crying, not
celebrating her birthday. That didn't happen, Laura, she gave herself away.
Let's talk about law enforcement for a minute. OSBI, the FBI,
(21:28):
the Oklahoma State Patrol, multiple sheriffs departments, the KBI as well.
Oh yes, they were involved as well. Thank you. They
did a magnificent job because when you and I were
at the Hamptons, you showed me the video of the
tanks and everybody rolling toward Grandma's house. They knew that
(21:51):
could have been a potential hostage situation that could have
ended really badly for everybody, could have been a devastating event.
The fact that they would follow these things privately, nobody
knew what happened, nobody knew anything was going down until
(22:11):
it was in action. I think they saved a bunch
of lives by doing it that way.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I agree. I think that you know, for all the
frustrating days and hours of us, the members of the
media calling and saying, do you have any updates? Can
you tell us anything, can you tell us what you're searching,
And the answer was always, we're investigating. We will let
you know when we have something over and over and
over again, and then you know the anchors that were,
you know, every news anchor and reporters, you know, asking
(22:39):
why don't we hear more, and the people in the
town just say, we just want something, tell us what's
going on. They can't, and time and time again it's
proven why and our team And a huge hat tip
I want to give to my colleagues Nancy lou and
Dana Levitt who were on the ground along with their
photographer Nate, who were getting ready to do a live
(23:02):
shot and saw the zoom zoom zoom, you know, going
down the street and all those cars and they got
in and they they followed them and they got really
close and we have the video of it. So now
the world has seen how this all played out. And
they had there were law enforcement officers on the road
that had guns drawn and said, you guys need to
(23:23):
get back now, and they did, of course, but that's
how close we they came. Because it was all unfolding.
There was no there's no press release saying we're about
to do a raid. You know, stand on the side
of the street so you can watch it. It was
just it was luck that day for them, and they
did a fantastic job of staying safe bringing the story
and I just can't say enough about them.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Now that video. I was, of course just knocked out
by it because I thought, Okay, it's happening, and it
is a grandma and it looks like if she has
the children, they are taking every single in the world.
So this thing does not turn into a hostage situation
where somebody's gonna take everybody out. So again, nobody's going
(24:09):
to have them if I can't have them kind of thing.
But I want everybody to know, go follow Lara Ingle.
She's at Laura Ingle on x and she's Laura Ingle
TV on Instagram. All the videos are there, and she
has been boots on the ground and she has the
videos from her colleagues and it's I mean, I think
(24:33):
it's the best reporting on this thing I've seen. I'm
just telling you, and you have been so fantastic keeping
us up to date of you know, what all is
transpired since they were reported missing, and with this new development,
I just I'm going to give you the final word
because again I think you said something so incredible when
(24:56):
we were in the Hamptons that I just want you
to repeat it for everybody to hear.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
The most heartbreaking thing of all of this, of course,
are the children that are left without their mothers. And
while this has been going on for the last several weeks,
you know, you wonder how much did they know. Two
of them were really young, the other ones were older.
And you know, for Jillian's family, they were getting ready
(25:22):
to move and start a new life, and the pastor
had just got a new job and they were packing up,
and locals told me that they were halfway already moved
out of the state. So I don't know how you
know what the final move date was going to be
for the Kellys, but you just, you know, you just
keep thinking about both women. But just that happenstance that
(25:45):
Gillian took the ride that day. But on this day,
there are six children without their mothers who are living
on the planet. And now with the long list of
people not only arrested but also implication in this warrant,
we know that there are more children, especially the hero
(26:05):
of the story, c W who has told law enforcement
what she overheard a bunch of adults talk about and
what she witnessed. And she has a brother, so you
know now we're up to eight and probably more, but
it's the children who ended up suffering and we'll suffer now.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone seven
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