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May 11, 2022 73 mins

Gorgeous, gorgeous girls, do NOT date F*CK Boys! Zuri’s back at it again with her girls from the Group Chat (Ashlee and Cleo) for an honest convo about sex and relationships. They’re sharing their personal stories on how to tell if he’s a f*ck boy and the red flags to watch out for! They break down the difference between situationships and friends with benefits (and what are the rules?!), and how to avoid catching feelings for your f*ck buddy!

Listen for the laughs and tips as they share if they’d rather be dominated, the perks of walking home naked,  and  *someone* shares what happened when another girl showed up at her f*ck buddys’ house! 

If you’re ready for a good time, hit play and get ready for a hilariously honest convo with Z and her close friends!

Share this episode with a friend NOW + let us know your favorite part of the convo: @ZuriHall and @HotHappyMess

Don’t forget to hit up hothappymess.com for all the show notes mentioned in this episode and for ALL the deets on how to join our exclusive Facebook group!

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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hot, happy mess, celebrate your magic in the middle of
life's messes. Happy that I'm zeriall and this is hot,
happy mate, shoot Happy Wednesday if you are listening to
this on the day that it uploads, downloads, whatever loads.

(00:32):
But what's up. I'm Zuri and this is not happy mess.
We are bringing you another episode. We've got a super fun,
super chill one. I've got my group chat girls with
me today, and today is all about love and the
relationships boys, because it's all one right, you gotta go

(00:52):
through the boys to get to the love. Um friends
with benefits, all the things. So this is clearly I'm
pretty sure we're gonna have to mark this one explode
sit but only because of the obvious, which is that
the title is a little bit more than PGT. We'll
see where it goes. Maybe this ends up arm maybe
we keep it cute. Who knows? Uh. First up, let's
introduce today's ladies back to the group Chat. I've got

(01:14):
Ashley and I've got Cleo. It's season two, So for
anyone who might be joining us for the very first time,
let's do a quick debrief. Remind them who you are,
what you do, and then what you've been up to
in the last I don't know a few weeks. Ashley,
let's kick it out with you. What up, y'all. My
name is Ashley Ray. I live in Phoenix, Arizona. I

(01:37):
am a people operations executive in the text space, working
out of Silicon Valley. I also am a career coach.
I own my own business. I'm married, love and life.
I'm your friend that is down for whatever. If you
want to fly to China tonight, called me sis. I
actually just got back from North Carolina. I was at
my alma modern wake Forest, where I played tennis there,

(01:58):
and I did a panel with wake Forest and ESPN
w UM celebrating the fifty and anniversary at women's Athletics
at wake Forest University. So that was really fun and
I'm still recovering. It's nice, all right. Our former pro
tennis player here played tennis at wake Forest first before
going Crows, So that's a fun fact for all of
y'all listening. Cleo, reintroduce everyone to you. Who are you?

(02:23):
How do we know each other? What's your vibe? How
you been doing? Okay, y'all? My name is Cleo Ellis.
I live in Toronto, Canada, Toronto for the rest of
the world. Everyone else's Toronto. I work as the director
of brand Partnerships. I have a PR agency and the
digital agency that I co own with my business partners,

(02:45):
and I managed talent in that position, and then I
also co own an all female DJ booking agency and
the Spin corporate and private events all around North America.
You name it, we take care of it. Um and
I get In the last couple of weeks, girl, we
have been like spin your head off, busy, book busy

(03:07):
and blessed, but to the point where it's been like
verying overwhelming. So luckily we are back on track. Things
are calming down, making my way to l A next
week for a little Coachella fund and some vibes. I
am single and uh in the streets if you will,

(03:27):
right it dropped the relations um and I'm Zuri and
I'm here again, and I'm pretty sure I'll have a
general idea, so I'll spare you the detail. But what's
been happening in the last few weeks for me? So
I just I've been going through the house for renovation,
as everyone who's listened consistently knows, and I'm finally um

(03:49):
in the tail end and like the main levels of
the kitchen, the living room, that's all done. Lola was like,
this is my house, you're just living in it, and
I'm just like, you don't pay the mortgage, and she
doesn't care. So really, I am a prisoner to my
very adorable puppy, um and she is living her best life.
She's totally house trained, which is awesome. And I'm about
to start finally sharing like the home design stuff really soon,

(04:12):
so that'll be coming to social media and Instagram soon.
But I've partnered up with some really cool brands. I've
done a lot of stuff just on my own, completely
out of pocket. But it feels good to come into
two from a place of peace and calm. Like I'm
very overwhelmed. I'm not gonna lie. It's been a stressful
few weeks. I let out a really loud, aggressive over

(04:35):
the top screen in my car, like right before we
got on here, and I thought no one heard. And
then I walked out in my garage and the photographer
from the living room was still there and I was like, hey,
sometimes you just a day. I want to do a
quick rapid fire before we get into some other stuff. Um.

(04:59):
One we'll start with Cleo. Who's the last person you called?
What'd you guys talk about? Who the last person I called?
I called Coco and we just talked about our very
sudden plans to go to Coachella, literally that we're decided
today and our trip to Miami tomorrow that we probably
wouldn't have agreed to going on had we known we

(05:19):
were going to Coachella next week. So that's what we discussed,
and basically, how are we going to survive? Are you
going to the bigcoin conference while you're down there in Miami? No,
we're going for a friend of a friend's wedding. Okay, Ashley,
who's the last person you called? Would you guys talk
about I called my sister and she was just I
was just giving her an update on the weekend in

(05:41):
North Carolina. So yeah, we talked. We talked every day.
Love it tell her, I say. The last person I
called was Leah actually of group Chat, and she is
in Germany right now, living her best life. And we
were comparing notes because we're trying We're probably going to

(06:02):
cross paths in the south of France in like June,
so we're trying to figure out what we can do
maybe like check out a couple of new towns together. Um.
So that's what I was talking to. Uh, what is
your favorite song to sing in the shower right now? Cleo?
I jammed to Thames and Drakes Mountains and like, basically

(06:23):
every day. I love it. Ashley, Oh my god. Yah,
I don't even have a jam right now. Um, I
don't know. I've been meditating in the shower. I have
been listening. My jam in the shower right now has
been earth tone meditation music every single day. That's what

(06:44):
I listened to. A car rides so I can just
zin out instead of getting worked up in the l
a rush hour. That's good, you know. My I was
talking to my therapist, um uh a few sessions back,
and she was saying the same thing. You know. I
was just saying, how I've been a little bit overwhelmed
these last couple of weeks and I'm trying to get
back to what I was feeling like at the top
of this year, which was zinned out and floating. And

(07:07):
she was like, what can you do for you? And
like what time can you carve out for that? And
she was like what about the shower? And I was
like you never really think about that as an opportunity
to be intentional. You're just like I'm gonna wash and
I'm going to piece out. But you can completely meditate.
It's not like you have to be asleep. You don't
have to be laying down just to be without bond

(07:27):
or to be mindful. It's something you can absolutely do
in the bath. Yeah, it's like a cleansing of like
the whatever stresses I had the day before, what I'm
thinking about, and then it's also my time to like
take care of my body, take care of my skin.
It just feels like very rejuvenating. M M, I love it.
Um my go to song right now, I'm just loving.

(07:53):
Do y'all know Tiana Major nine? She is so dope.
She's a black British R and b old singer, little
Leo soulish, a little bit of pop um. But I'm
obsessed with her song with Lucky Day, which is older
now it probably came out a year ago called am
red Um. But also her new EP is like a
four song EP. I think she has a song called

(08:15):
try Piece about being a complete self saboteur and low
key avoidant me and then being like, oh there's this
new person in my life, and it feels good and
peaceful and right. Maybe I should try peace instead of
all the normal bullshit that I that I engage with,

(08:38):
or that I you know, entertained, um, and what it
means to consider that. So I love her music because
it's a vibe, it's super catchy, but she also really
is exploring herself and her emotions and why she behaves
the way she does, which I really respect. We have
another game, it's would you rather? It's a fun, slightly
naughty version of it. Um. I'll throw a few out

(09:02):
just to get us a little saucier before we get
into the nitty gritty. But this we're gonna keep it
super fast. So just give me your answer. Don't even
explain why, Um, Ashley. Would you rather clogged the toilet
on a first date or the first day at a
new job? First day at a new job? Cleo job? Sam? Um?
Would you rather be dominant or dominated? Cleo dominated? Ashley? Yeah,

(09:31):
with my man dominated. I love how you had to
put the disclaimer in there, like yas about to beat up? Right?
Depends on the situation, right, right, Um? Depending on the
situation that I would say dominated too. I feel like
I'm just so dominant with life. So, okay, would you
producer star? Oh my goodness, she is asking some questions.

(09:56):
I'm like, I don't even know if I want to
answer these. Okay, would you either have to be naked
at work for an hour or be dropped off two
miles from your house while naked and you have to
try to get home? Um? I'll answer first. I would
rather two miles is a long way to walk, but
naked to my house. You know what, I think it's

(10:19):
weird to say naked at work. I would say naked
at work too. I don't want to be naked anywhere.
You would say naked at work, Cleo, I'm just like,
I gotta see you all tomorrow. But if it's two
miles from my house, I'm like, whatever, These are just
like random people driving Zuri be and Zuri Hi. My

(10:39):
thought exactly. Yeah, Okay, okay, let's see we got one
more good one. Okay, Okay, I'm gonna ask this one
of Cleo. Because you're single. Would you rather find the
love of your life or find three million dollars tax free?
I have a context question, though, Okay, give us an um.

(11:00):
Is it like it's I would never I take this
three million, and I would never find the love of
my life ever or just like tomorrow. That's a great question. No,
it's just like it's not guaranteed. You might never find them,
and maybe you will find someone that works. But this
is hidden, like this is love of your life, like
spiritual so made what every rom com ever is written about,

(11:21):
like the stuff that barely exists for a lot of
people like that type of love. Um forever, for as
long as you live, you in that person will experience
that together. You know what do think three million? I'll
risk it because I think I'll take that money and
then I'll risk that. It's because I think I can
find the person after I have that. Like I think

(11:42):
I can find the person. I'm confident that I can
find that person later in my life, true that you
never know. I like the confidence I am in. I
think I'm more of a romantic than I give myself
credit for. I try to act like I'm all big
and bad, but deep down I just and putty. I
can't to think I don't want the love of my
life if I have it written in blood that we're

(12:04):
not gonna be on that boom, and we're just get
enough be happy and in love. You know that's the key,
that's the key. Yeah, we together later and it will
just make the three million, you know, tax free, which
means I guess we got to come up with six million, right,

(12:25):
so I might have to sleep on this actually, exactly right,
Not that easy, right right right? Okay, let's get into it. Um.
Today we are talking about f boys. We're talking about
friends with benefits. What does a successful relationship like that
look like? I'm curious to know if either of you
have ever had one before? Okay, so first off set

(12:48):
the scene for me. I have either of you had
a friends with benefits situation? Yes, tell us what you're
gonna tell us? Oh? Multiple? What do I know? Every wait?
Wait wait, I'm sorry, I'm thinking of situation ships. But
I've definitely had yeah, like I've had multiple situation ships.

(13:09):
But I've definitely had um too, friends with benefits situations
that have happened um and they for me, they've always
like started off fun and it started off as a
good idea initially because when you're friends, ideally, like if
you spend so much time together, you become attracted to

(13:31):
each other and like, when you're in a serious relationship,
the best part of a relationship to me as your friendship. Um.
But then as you go down the line, like it
never can stay friends with benefits, at some point at
least one or both people, at least one person is
gonna want to take it farther and they're gonna, you know,
have feelings, and it just never it never works out.

(13:54):
So I've never had a successful one. And that's the thing.
I'm like, what is a successful one? I look at
the success rate as how long did it last? And
it was good for both people? And that's it, because
I feel like there's this unspoken understanding that eventually this
is going to go left, because that's how those relationships
always ends. It's because someone gets bored and just doesn't

(14:17):
have an interest in hooking up with you anymore, or
vice versa, or someone falls in love or decides I
want to pursue a romantic relationship with someone else, or
someone catches feelings and the other friend with benefit doesn't
catch the feelings, and now it's awkward and weird, and
so you have to kind of dissolve what it was

(14:38):
and that's always uncomfortable. But I don't know anyone who's like, hey,
this has been so great, what do you say? We
just kind of quit while we're ahead and go back
to being friends. Like you don't do that, because if
you feel that wonderfully and everything is going so smoothly
with that person, that's the person you want to call
up when you just want to you know, good to it.

(15:00):
So you kind of have to wait for things to
get a little weird before it ends, otherwise there's no
reason for day. Yeah, I've had it both ways, Like
I've had it where I'm the person who was catching
feelings and I was just kind of like, where is
this going? And I've also had it where the person
was feeling himself a little bit too much and was
letting people know like bumping his gums and was like, yeah,

(15:22):
actually really feeling me. And I'm like, I'm not you
know you were you literally just said no, I don't
like you know, being useder, Like I will literally talk
to you today and I will never talk to you again,
like please, I'm like, I'm on you like that and
I will never talk to you again. Girl, when I

(15:44):
tell you we are the same person. I was just
thinking this today, like there will be a guy who
will swear I am just head over hills in love,
whatever the things are right, and I could be giving
you that energy I'm scott that I'd be picking up
when I'm putting down. When I tell you lick at
me a little bit sideways, breathe a little funny to

(16:08):
say something that felt a little slick, and I didn't
really like it. If I sit with myself and my
thoughts for five minutes, when I tell you r I P,
and you may never even hear from me to know
that I just put you to rest. It's like a
light switch. It is so night and day, and it's
so extreme because it's opposite into the spectrum. I could

(16:28):
literally be cuddled up with someone one day and be like,
oh my gosh, like is this my future husband, and
seven hours later be like buck him. Honestly, when I
think about it, I just like I don't know, Like
I don't know, I don't I just don't know. Like
I like being alone. I just like being my dog.

(16:48):
I need I need space. It was so bad with
this person that I blocked. I blocked everything right. I
had one mutual friend was like, yeah, so and so
was that he was really feeling him. He was all
on it, but I was like, word blocked everything. The
last dress that I had that I went out with
him in threw that away. Like I was like, wait,

(17:11):
not punishing the dress threw away, it was justlinder. Yeah. Day.
I was just like, this never happened. This whole situation
never happened, and it was all from loving hip. Hop.
I have to receive right here him. I never do him.

(17:34):
I don't know his name. I did not know who
this man is. Sorry to that man, right exactly. Okay, cleo,
give it to me. What's what's your I've got a
couple of thoughts. I think it was good to make
a distinction between situationship and friends with benefits. First of all, Um,
I would challenge both of you. I don't think that

(17:55):
there's um it necessarily like if you decide you're going
to end one of those, that it means that it failed.
I don't think that like coming to the end of
a situation, ship or relationship of any kind is always
implicit of failure. I think it sometimes just means a
closed chapter. UM. And I think you know it, it
works for the people as long as it works and
everybody is good and happy with it. So I've had

(18:17):
one successful friends with benefits situation UM with someone who
like years ago. We've known each other since I was
like seventeen, and like we did have like a mutual
like for each other back in the day. Nothing ever
came of it, um And as we got older, like
their safety and awesomeness, and we eventually, like ten years

(18:40):
later after the facts, slept together and now from time
to time we'd lea see each other. We have sex,
and it's great. He lives like where in my hometown.
I live across the country and everything is gucci. UM.
I've had many situation ships. I have one literally right
now that I decided, actually last night is about to
be dead in um and and it's yeah, yeah, yeah,

(19:06):
we're dead. It's not And again, like it's not even
a failure. They haven't done anything wrong. It's not a
situation where like some big crazy thing happened. It's just
not serving me anymore. I'm not feeling aligned with it.
And I ultimately know, like I knew from the beginning
he and I were not a love match. I knew
we were very different people. And now I'm like, no,

(19:28):
I don't want it. So yeah, they work as long
as they work and as long as everybody in those
relationships or eyes wide open, right, I I respect you
know that you can be like, oh, this isn't working
for me anymore, is not serving me, and so it's
time to move on. Um, yeah, that's good sex for
this man is unlikely. Yes, he is going to get

(19:53):
a call. That's exactly true. Like I won't ghost him.
He's he's been break up with it, like why do
you and how do you civilly end friends with benefits situation?
I actually thought about this all day. I'm gonna like,
I'm gonna come back to town. I'm gonna like be like, hey,
let's go out, and I'm gonna tell him face to face.
I don't want to do it on text. Like he's

(20:13):
been kind to me, he's been a good person. It's
not in my ethos to like just text and be like, hey,
that's not gonna work. And I wouldn't do that to
someone in real life, even if we weren't in an
intimate relationship. Like, if something's not serving me, I think
you know, it's always kind of to like close it
and send it. If if this situation calls. Now I

(20:33):
will dead somebody if they've done me dirty. I'm not
sending anything or being kind, but this is not that situation.
He's always been respectful and and you know, generous, and
he works hard and he tries and all the things.
So I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna put it
to bed properly. And there's a place where it sounds
like you guys could just go back to being friends
without right. I mean, we hear that the situation ship,

(20:57):
we're situation ship, not I would not call us friends
and doing abused. This one is a situation ship. Like
he and I, we weren't friends to begin with. This
is the difference. This is we like came together under
the understanding we were just we're saying friends of benefits,
situation ship. The differences what what? What is the difference

(21:18):
to you between the situationship? To me is when okay,
I would like for this to be going somewhere else.
I'm trying to keep it cute until we figure out
if we're taking it to the next level or not.
Maybe it's the guy who's trying to play it cool
until he convinced his me to go all in but
there's a romantic undertone, but we're not committed. So if

(21:42):
I catch you out with someone else, I technically can't
be mad, even though I absolutely will be mad and
vice versa. So that's the situation ship to me, friends
with benefits is come through, all right, have a nice day,
let me know how that promotion goes. Let me know
if you get blackly in a few weeks. You know, like,

(22:02):
there's no there's no faking intimacy because that's not that's
not what that's about. So that's what it is for me.
Does anyone have a different definition or would you agree? No?
I I completely agree, And like sometimes friends with benefits
can be like we knew each other before and we
were actually cool, and then we did cross the line,

(22:22):
not trying for it to go anything further than just
like we have a sex whatever, um, and that's what
it is. And then yeah, situation ships to me is
the same as you s. It's like we're talking, we're dating,
but we don't have the like we're not fully committed,
Like I'm not your girlfriend, you're not my boyfriend. But

(22:43):
if I do see you out, I'm gonna be pissed.
If I see you out with somebody else. I'm gonna
be pissed. And I don't care if I'm on a
date with someone else. That's none of your business. Exactly,
my man, And I see you with a new chick.
You're fake. I shouldn't known. I couldn't have trusted you.
Don't ask your business, and now you're dead to me exactly.

(23:07):
Oh my god, that's so funny. I don't feel like
a situationship is like that, at least not for me.
Like friends with benefits is like we were friends and
then we decided at some point we were gonna have sex,
and as everybody's like, hey, we're agreed on this, and
then situation ship. To me, I just call it a ting.
But like I don't I truthfully with the guy that

(23:29):
is my situation ship, I do not give a funk
at all. I do not care go talk. In fact,
I'm like, please go talk to other people, Please go
do something I would never and it would never bother
me if he was. And to be honest with you,
he doesn't ask me if I am because I don't
think he wants to know the answer. But we're very clear,
like it's nothing that to me benefits if neither one

(23:54):
of the anything more because the situationship to me is
like I mean it's a little situation and like it's complicated,
or like I mean we're in the middle of something.
Friends with benefits is exactly or at least to me,
it's like he's not asking me questions. I'm not asking
him questions because we're friends and sometimes we enjoy benefits.
Like that's it. The situation ship is like, it's the

(24:15):
ship of it all, like that applies. I don't even
have another word for this, So that's fair. I might
know what I might then adjust all of my language.
I will call all of my situations friends with benefits
that I've had. Okay, Cleu has like ten dudes and
situation ship that she didn't even know she's in. She's like, no,
we're super cool and chill and they're over there like

(24:37):
at the house, like, m it's a situation ship right now.
I want to take it to the next level, you
know what. So you thinks they're like chilling, They're just
gonna have to work harder. She a football. You know,
we've been I've been locked up for two years later,
sins been COVID, so I'm here for the streets. I

(24:58):
had my own before, so I've listen before I got
locked out. So as I feel you, what are the
rules for you guys? Do you have any like you
must do this, can never do this? Like, what are
the rules for a successful friends with benefit relationship? If
you even have any? Yeah, I mean I don't. I

(25:20):
think you can't. It's hard to have rules, right, like
unless you just want to be like, hey, if you
are out here in these streets, for the protection of
both of us, please let me know. Um. But outside
of that, I think if you are both agreeing that
this is a friends with benefit situation, then it's fair
on both sides not to ask questions like it is

(25:42):
what it is, right mm hmmm. I think it depends
on you as the person. So I have my own
personal like guidelines that I generally abide by. So back
in the day, when I was much younger, if I
had these situations, I would make sure that I wasn't
like spending the night or doing things with that person
that were like very boyfriend girlfriend uh things. Because I

(26:04):
feel like I had gotten myself into like one or
two situations where I was like, oh, this is something
more because we're spending this kind of time together. That's
changed over the years because now I'm older and I
can cuddle you and go and we can have sex
and it's fine and go home. And I know that
that still doesn't mean anything. But UM, I always try
to just be transparent about our sexual health in particular,

(26:26):
so there's I always have that conversation up front. I
always uh like, show I asked for tests. I get
my test done regularly. UM. And we always have a
conversation about protection, just because I know if I'm sleeping
with other people and they're sleeping with other people, which
I don't care about. I never asked, It doesn't matter
to me. Um. I just want to make sure that

(26:47):
we're always safe and and that we're not taking anything
for granted. So I don't just take someone at their
word when they're like, yeah, I'm clean, I'm like, great,
get me that test though, and like, let's let's be
serious about that, because I take my sexual health very serious. Plea.
So those are the rules. And and then the only
other thing I always tell them is to just like
if something changes in the dynamic where you're like, hey,

(27:07):
I'm not feeling it whatever, just let me know, and
it's no problem amen of that. Safe sex. Guys sexual
so important and I feel like we've all been their
experience that you hear. Good, Now, it's fine. I'm not
doing anything with anybody if they would like to their
whole partner. They're committed spouses of years and years and years,

(27:31):
they're allowed to you, okay, especially if you you're in
a situationship friends with benefit situation like health is so
important and safety and you really have to take that
into your own hands, Like that is not a joint
decision to me, right, Like we can negotiate the rules
of whatever else and how we interact with each other
or whatever that is, but like you don't get to

(27:52):
dictate or get me to just like accept whatever because
you told me something or you promised me. I'm good
absolutely running those pagures. Yeah, I think to like just
to like reiterate what Klio said, like do not do
boyfriend girlfriend things with the friends with benefits because that's

(28:15):
just that's where now it's starting to get into a
situation ship And it's like, is that where you want
this to go? Like, because now it's it's changing into
something that it was not originally intended to be. Now
I want you to clarify. I'm like afraid of what.
I'm not afraid, but I'm like, I feel like this
get specific, But what is the difference? What is a
boyfriend girlfriend thing versus a friends with benefit? Then, like

(28:36):
we're not about It's funny, right, because like I am
such a guy's girl, Like I have a lot of
guy friends and I grew up with and I still
have guy friends, and I'm still friends with people that
I've actually dated, um, even even as a married woman.
And so is my husband's friends with a couple of
friends with a couple of people. He said it before,
but like if we go out, I'm not don't pay.

(28:58):
I'm not letting you pay for anything. Like this is
not a date. This is just us going to dinner. Um,
I don't know if cuddling would be in there. I've
been out of the game for a long time, so
I'm sure even the fact that you're like maybe it's
off limits. Wow, yeah, Like I don't just want to
make that like a clear distinction. Yeah, Like you know
how on Jersey Shore is like the calfs here, Like

(29:21):
let's just make you dis station calves. Here's like catch me, yeah,
because I don't want to bar those lines people cut
it with like the Best Season cut it with dogs.
You know, it's just different person though. It depends on
the person. Some people can like separate that stuff with ease,

(29:43):
Like I'm one of those people, Like I can cuddle you,
we could do like all that, I could spend the
night whatever. And then I'll be like douces and I'll
see you in public and be like I don't know you, yeah,
Like I just want to keep myself in line, and
then I would want them to keep themselves in life.
I don't think this is anything more than what it is, right,

(30:05):
I'm not about to invite you as a plus one
for like as a couple's thing, you know what I'm saying, Like,
I just think that's starting to I think I'd just
be so crazy because I would be like, yeah, do
you want to go to go with me to like
this rig carpet gala. There's like a photo walk and
we can say pictures separately, like I just do the
most and again we'll just like never see you again,

(30:26):
Like I don't have to see you tomorrow slash ever
for the rest of my life. It just doesn't mean
anything to me unless it means something. And then sometimes
I think people confuse it or they're like sometimes they
get hyped like oh my god, does this mean more?
Like are we going somewhere else? Sometimes they might get
freaked out, like oh my god, she invited me where
like what does this mean? I'm not trying to do
all that, but either way, for me, it's just like

(30:47):
I'm going to this thing. There's free food, you want
to roll. It's the same as inviting like one of
my homies, like one of you guys do a thing.
But I get that the implications like intention and option
or two very different things. So I've even had to
realize that because then also like with social media, like
I'll share things that to me are not a big deal,

(31:09):
and then people are reading tea like tea leaves, like
is this her new booth? She posted a photo or
story with someone, so like, god forbid, someone have a
penis and be anywhere on my Instagram like we have
to be dating, And I'm just like, I'm sorry, what
can I have? Friends? Is that not a thing? Um?
But I guess I get it. I guess I get
why some people might I might want to draw that

(31:32):
line so they don't, you know, blur them. And that's
just for anything that would be like a couple's ish
type thing, Like I think it was just like, oh,
we're going out, You're trying to go to this party
with me, like whatever, let's row. But if it's just
something that it's like, oh, it's all couples, you're trying
to do my plus one, it's like, oh, she invite
me to this party and it's all couples, like a

(31:52):
couple's date. Like I'm not about to do that. Yeah.
Have you guys ever had of friends with benefits situation
that turned into or that actually turned into like a
relationship for a little while, or something that was unexpected
but pleasant. No, I have not, Cleo shaking her head,
no inside, no night. Okay, So I feel like I

(32:18):
kind of got finessed into it, and like I have attempted.
I'm more than one occasion to you know, not a lot,
but I've tried at least a couple of good times
to have a friends of the benefits situation. And I
this is why guys smoking mirrors like they act big
and tough and like they can just move on and

(32:39):
drop whatever. It's alive for more men, at least than
society would have us believe, because I have very much
negotiated the terms of agreement with someone before and thought
we were on the same page. And so I'm, you know,
moving about the cabin in the way that we agreed to,

(33:00):
and everything's fine. And you know, over the weeks that come,
they start feeling some type of way about my posts
or what I'm doing, and it's not even that I'm
with someone else. I'm just giving single energy and that
makes them feel some type of way and I'm like,
I'm single, Like I don't know what you do was

(33:21):
And at that point it becomes awkward and you have
to figure out how to extract yourself from the situation.
But I think a lot of guys also, because so
many of us, not just men, men and women, have
commitment issues. The way that we drop our guard and
even become comfortable enough to get to know someone and
experience intimacy is only if they promise, ironically not to

(33:46):
try to get too intimate, not to expect anything of us,
not to try to lock us into a commitment. And
so I have found in my experience that more often
than not, when I am, you know, just casually enjoying
a guy's company and genuine expecting nothing else. That's when
their guards starts to drop. That's when they start telling
me stuff about their mom and their daddy in the past,

(34:06):
and this and that's and things that they normally would
hold to their chest if it was a woman across
the table from them who was looking for a husband.
Which is ridiculous that they would do that, right, because
I think so many of us want love deep down
in partnership, but we're so afraid of it, and so
something about their friends with benefit label just makes them think, oh,
like whatever, I'm not going to see this girl in
a few months, so I'll share of myself. And then

(34:29):
in the end, the sharing obviously makes it a little
more complicated and a little more messy. So I've certainly
ended up in some like month long, six month long
situation ships because I thought it was friends with benefits
situation and then I have to break up with them
three times even though I never committed to them, and
I'm just like, this is crazy. Yeah, they like listening.

(34:53):
We I'm about to proposed They about proposed that. You're like, wait,
but we're not even dating. Speaking of egos, what is
enough boy to you? What are the signs? Who? Who
are these men running around freaking havoc innocent folks lives?

(35:15):
You want me to start because I can actually get
in there, get in there. I've dealt with a few,
you know what I'm saying. So, um, well, the one
that I was dealing with, what is I'm pretty like
ninety nine percent. I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist. Pretty
sure he's a narcissist, but um, I would say anybody

(35:39):
that falls in that court category. Um, yeah, just like
playing with your emotions, right, it's like doing girlfriend things.
Yes we're dating, Yes we're in a relationship. However, no,
I'm not dating anybody else. I'm not seeing anybody else.
But very clearly they're out here for the streets lying

(36:00):
with other girls. You literally catch them cheating with your
own two eyeballs or your own two ears, and you
confront them about it and it's like, I'll never do
it again, and so you get back in and then
they're just still doing f boy ship Like it's just
like it's games. They're they're not serious about anything. They're

(36:21):
playing with your emotions. Um, maybe they got two or
three kids out here. Um, maybe they handed the d
out on a platter, like you know what I'm saying.
It could just be in a ray of things. But basically,
at the end of the day, being serious about you,
you are not the one. At the end of the day,
you aren't the one. Um. And so I think us
as women just have to recognize that earlier. Um, you
can't change anybody. Everybody's not for you, and you have

(36:43):
to move on. But that's a boy to me, that's
a amen. I feel like there are two different types,
two different types. They're the super low level. You just fine, fine, fine, fine,
fine as hill. You know it. I know it, Your

(37:04):
mama know your daddy know what. Everyone you have ever
met knows it, and you just can you can just
live in the forty and we'll deal with it because
you find we know we're dealing with you. We're stupid
for doing it. Our friends are judging as it doesn't matter.
I'll see you tonight. Like that's what category, right, And
it doesn't take much emotional intelligence or maybe even intelligence

(37:28):
period to be that kind of F boy. And then
you have the other f boy, which is the dangerous one,
that is the guy who is very emotionally intelligent EQ
is through the roof. He knows how to sell you
a dream. He's smart enough and emotionally in tune enough
to know what you might want to hear and you

(37:49):
can give that to you. So basically, this guy has
the power to be a very present, emotionally available partner.
But maybe not for you, or maybe not for any woman,
but the competence is there, and instead of using those
powers for good, he's using it to keep you hooked
and rilled in. So that's the guy who's doing the

(38:12):
bait and switch. The other dude is just like, you're
coming through or not, I'm outside, like whatever. He knows
what it is you either dealing with him or not.
Like he might run your credit through the mud. He
might take the car and bring it back without gas. Right.
But then this other guy is the one who will say,
oh my god, you are just different and amazing and

(38:34):
I've never i haven't felt like this is so long,
and you know, starts gassing you what you might not
even be looking for that, But he knows how to
let those heart strings to where you start to you know,
kind of let the walls down. He can start coming
and going with a little more you know, freedom, you know,
and um, maybe you're starting to get a little emotionally invested.

(38:56):
So if you given it, he'll take a mile, and
he knows that you're gonna give them mile. And I
think those are the dangerous ones because when you finally
come to your senses and call them out, they're really
good at gas lighting, at being like, wait, no, that's
not what this was, or what no, you know how
I feel about you? Like either way it goes, it's

(39:18):
one end of an extreme and you're somewhere in the middle,
like why does this feel so inconsistent? Why do I
feel like I'm the queen of your world one day
and like I'm losing my mind the next day? Um?
And they just kind of seamlessly bounced back and forth
between those two so that it's just enough to keep
you hooked. So those are the boys that our hardest,

(39:38):
in my opinion, to let go of, because they're giving
you tastes, like little samples of who they could be
at their best, but they either are not emotionally ready
to give it to you or they just don't want
to give it to you, but they won't say that
they won't be man enough to just let you go.
They'd rather string you along and enjoy the perks of
your presence. They feel like ladies. You. I don't have

(40:01):
anything to add. You both gave that the most distinct
understanding of what enough boy is. My preference for boys
is obviously the first ones, he described, because at least
everyone's on the same page. You know you're enough boy.
I know you're enough boy. It's fine, we're all Gucci
over here. That second type, that narcissistic one, though, debt it.

(40:22):
Debt it as quickly as you can. Don't ever, yeah,
because it's like when it's good, it's like amazing, right.
So it's like those little bits of goodness that you
do see and the time that you spend together, and
even like maybe the sex that you'll like, it's like amazing, right,
And so it like overshadows the and yes, and that's

(40:47):
what makes it super hard. Right, tell me about the
time and F boy broke your heart or I'll say bruise,
because we're not giving them that much credit. And there
has not been a single one that I have not
bounced back from within dirty days. So what who is
someone who kinda took you through it? What were this
sign when did you first start seeing the signs? Or

(41:07):
this is f boy behavior? Why did you stay? Why
did you keep putting up with it? What was so
charming about it? And then how did it? How did
it play out? Man? I feel like I was young
when this happened. This was one of my first like
this was like a cornerstone one where it was like
the learning the learning lessons. So we would spend time together.
We would hang out, we would go eat, we would

(41:30):
have sex, I would stay at his house all of
these things, and he and I had like great conversation
and um. But then I would notice, like when we
would go to the club, he would kind of just
like ignore me, like we would't go together because but
we always see each other out because really we're one
of the same places. He kind of just ignored me,
but then find his way back to me, like at
the end of the night, like, well, can I get

(41:51):
a ride home? Because I at the time just I
drove everywhere and I never drank. And so it started
to get to this thing where like before he would
want to see hang out with me in the day
and like do these things. And then it only became
a nighttime thing, and then there were like little things
that just kept happening. And I actually remember one time.
This is so crazy, you guys. Uh we were at

(42:11):
his house literally in the middle of doing something, and
there was a knock at his patio door and watched
me when I tell you, it was a woman. It
was like another woman like knocking down since patio door.
And he tried to tell me it was nothing. He's like,
it's my cousin. I'm like what what. I'm sorry. I

(42:33):
could see with my actual two eyeballs and like actually
said was my actual two eyes, like I'm not blind.
So he tried to tell me like it was nothing,
it was his cousin. He's like, I'm just gonna ignore it.
And it was a whole other woman knocking down his door.
Why would you ignore your cousin. That's just like they
just the lines are so ridiculous. Let your cousin in

(42:54):
the house. Can I meet your cousin? Like, I'm gonna
ignore it. Yeah, I'm gonna ignore it because I was like, yo,
opened the door. He's like no, no, no no, it's fine.
They're gone. So that was one of those cornerstone ones
and I was. You know, I think I was so young.
I had never had a boyfriend before. I really liked him,
and you know, I would think I was maybe nineteen
or twenty or something, just fresh to the game. And

(43:15):
that was the quarterstone one where I was like, oh no,
And to be fair, that actually probably set me up
for a lot of the reason I am the way
I am now, which is one of those unfortunate ones.
God bless therapy. We learned from our mistakes. Um, but yeah, yeah, wow,
his cousin was on the patio. We're gonna leave her
outside though, right, I'm like, smote, break, I don't even smoke.

(43:40):
I want to go out to the patio, right, right, exactly,
Let's go patio, right, Let's check it up, Ashley, Do
you have one for him? Do you know? I was
gonna say, like watching some of them because literally, um, yeah,

(44:03):
you know, mine were younger, and I feel like this
is like what your twenties are for, you know, because
you learn from these situations. And I think every I
think everybody needs to have at least one, you know,
for experience, because like it sets you up to appreciate
the good, the good partners that that you do come
across right that maybe your potential spouses. UM. But yeah,

(44:25):
I was younger and met this person. I'm not even
gonna give like super big context and don't want to
get no body credit. But anyways, I met this person.
I was younger. Um. They we actually started off his friends. Uh.
They were very um like pursued me super hard. I
was like, not, I don't want it. He whatever, we're friends,

(44:49):
UM try it. A couple of times, like we kissed
and it was like terrible and I was like no,
not like, we're not across that line. Um. But long
story shore, we actually did cross the line, and we
end up um dating and it was really fun, really great.
Became very close with this person and like some of
their family. UM. And then it became very like emotionally abusive.

(45:11):
And I didn't know at the time that that's what
it was. So it was just like catching him with
other girls or catching him talking to other girls. UM.
Things I would see with my own life literally, things
I would see with my own two eyes, like other
women showing up at parties for this person, um, telling
me that they're with this person, and then me confronting
him and then him being like okay, yeah, like we

(45:34):
messed around a couple of times, but it's nothing, and
me just being on the floor like of my apartments,
brought out, devastated, can't eat, losing weight, like it was
all bad, Like I literally was strong out and it
was so bad that I was like, I feel like
I'm digging myself a grave every time I go back,
and I'm not able to like dig myself out of
the grave. Um. It was like it was a lot,

(45:55):
but it was just like me not believing my own eyes,
letting him talk me out of things that I knew
were true, but I didn't want to believe it. Um.
And it became like I mean, it was just like
so many like girls in situations. Um. It became very
disrespectful at the end, to the point where almost it
started to become physical, Like one time and then I

(46:16):
never talked to this person again, but talk about the
ultimate boy. Like I could walk outside and be like
this guy is blue, and he'd be like this guy
is red, and I'd be like maybe it is red,
Like maybe it is red. Um, And so I you know,
it was a young stage in my life. Therapy really
helped me to like get over a lot of the

(46:38):
shame that I felt for not trusting myself. And you know,
it's like you have to trust yourself again to make
sure that you know the signs of like what a
boy is right, um and quite literally a narcissist at
this point. Um. But yeah, that's my experience with it.
But it's also helped me to appreciate like my husband
now and it helped me to like realized when I

(47:01):
met him, um that like, Okay, this is a really
great guy, even though I was still like, we'll see
after six months, we'll see after a year, Okay, so
like the last two years, he's gonna mess up after
three Like okay, we're married, Yes, we're like right, I
mean just because we're married don't mean nothing. Actually he's

(47:21):
literally in the context me right now exactly. Um, No,
that that's a rule. And I remember, I remember the
updates of that one. It was a lot um. And
you're right, they're so narcissistic too, like, and they're so
good at convincing you that you're the one who's tripping.
And I say this often. I've said it on the
podcast quite a few times. We so often extend our

(47:44):
sanity and our grace and our good nature to the
people we interact with. We assume that everyone moves like us,
acts like us, treats people the way that we would
treat people. When they don't. In the most abusive or
manipulative or dangerous of people will know that about you
and use it for their own selfish gain and not

(48:06):
think twice about the fact that that's what got them
what they wanted, then really taking advantage of your kind
heart or um or your good nature for me, like
I've certainly dealt with if you have boys, I feel
like the one that was the most gut ranching was
the first time when I didn't realize in the moment,

(48:26):
and it was only in hindsight after I had cried
my tears and healed and started learning about what the
red flags and the warning signs are, I was like,
oh my god, I can't believe I cried for him
at all. Like this man is definitely a narcissist. And
I don't mean it in the general like, oh, he's
selfish way, like I mean it in manipulative gas lighting.

(48:46):
Lyne to you about black being white, white being black
two plus two equals seven and if you don't agree,
then you're the crazy one. I remember we were he
was so fine. Are they all? They really always are are?
Time has not been kind to him, so that makes
me happy. I'm not gonna I lied and caught up

(49:08):
to him or kick in. But um, he was so fine, gorgeous,
and he played the role of gentlemen like it was
so sweet, whispering sweet nothings. We were in separate spaces,
so it was long distance, um for a significant amount
of time. But he was like, I would love for

(49:28):
you to come out and hang out with me and
like me my family and we it was too much,
too soon, and I was young, and it was just
kind of like whatever, let's see where it goes. And
so we were in this. It sounds ridiculous to even saying, hindsight,
quote unquote committed relationship after only gosh like a few
weeks of talking like whatever. It felt so high school

(49:49):
in hindsight, But in the moment you're caught up, he's
so fine you can't believe, like, oh my god, he's
into me, Like this is great. So this was what
I should have known f voice sign number one. So
I was broke at this point in my life, right
like working my butt off, employed always have been, but
money was tight. I was still in local news, I

(50:11):
was young, I was in my early twenties. UM and
you know, literally toilet tissue from the work from the
workplace to my house because that's one less thing I
had to try to pay for it in my house.
And he was like, I would love for you to
come out and visit me. Like he initiated this offer,
ask request or whatever. And he was like, get a flight.

(50:33):
I'll pay for it, like I'll cover it. I really
want to spend time with you. And I was like, okay,
like I've never bought a flight to go see anybody before.
I really wasn't trying to do it in but he
was the one who wanted to see me. He brought
it up and I was like okay, he said, don't
pay me back whatever. So I spent a few hundred
dollars on this flight, which is not a little bit

(50:53):
of money for someone who was literally taking toilet tissue
from her television station to go to the bathroom at
her UM. And I got to his location in his
state that we will not name unless we identify the
f boys UM and as we're there, the first day

(51:14):
is cool, like we're having fun, and up until this
point we've been talking NonStop. I'm talking hours on the phone,
face time, like we're talking about real stuff. So emotionally
it feels like he's giving and taking UM. By day
two things got weird. He started and I realized now
on hindsight for context, he it was and probably still

(51:35):
is so afraid of emotional intimacy, even though it seems
to be the thing that he wants the most. But
because of some of his personal history that I won't
go into, he has been scarred and hurt people, hurt people,
hurt people. So that's the part of me that still,
even though he doesn't deserve my compassion or empathy necessarily,
UM is there because that's just who I am, and
that's my heart, and I don't ever want that to

(51:56):
change about myself. I can love me from a distance,
and I don't love him at all, so I can
I can have compassion for that. So we I got
to his place, and by day two he was chipping
away at little bits of me, like my physical appearance.
I remember he made fun of UM, like my hair.
At one point he said something slick about like my skin,

(52:19):
like little things, and then peppered in between a bunch
of compliments to where I started to become confused. I
was like, wait, he just said these two or three
really nice things, but then he said this really mean,
unkind thing that like I had, like even my enemies
or people that I don't really deal with having said
stuff like that to me. But he says, it's so slick,

(52:40):
and it's like chipping away at my security. Right. So
I'm starting to build insecure on this trip, and now
I'm in my head about my skin or my hair,
or my feet, or my this or my clothes or whatever,
to where I can't even enjoy it. And the more
I got in my head, I could feel him almost
enjoying the feeling of knowing that he had me in
my head, knowing that suddenly I was policing my behavior,

(53:04):
my appearance, what I said, so that I could get
out of each interaction unscathed. It wasn't about just getting
to know someone anymore. It was about rising to the
occasion and impressing him enough to not have him chip
away at Loki, who I was as a person super toxic,
didn't realize it in the moment, and again buttoned up

(53:25):
with a lot of really, Oh my god, this is
so much fun. Oh my, you were so beautiful. Oh
my god, Like, what are we hanging out next? So
after this weird three days, I go to the airport
and I'm on the I'm on the little rollie sidewalk
head into my gate and I can't wait to get
back to the Midwest. I don't want to give any
more details, but I can't wait to get back home.

(53:46):
And I'm like, oh, it was like a load was
lifting the farther I got from his house. And then
this man texts me and he's like, I miss you already,
and I was like, wait what. He barely paid attention
to me while I was there. There were moments when
like a couple of people close to him were like
I was in uncomfortable situations, and instead of diving in

(54:07):
to save me from that awkward social moment, he sat
in silence and kind of watched me squirm like it
was torture. It was cruel and unusual, honestly. And as
soon as I get to the plane, he's like I
miss you. I was like, you see joking. I never
felt more confused. I was like, is it me? Like
this is maybe I misread all of the weird stuff,
and in the weeks that followed, he would go between

(54:30):
being super sweet and kind to talking with girls on Twitter.
Mind you were in this quote unquote relationship, rolls eyes
but tweeting girls gorgeous women back and forth, blatantly flirtatious.
I remember I got on the phone with him once
and was just like, look, I'm not like I'm so chill.
I really am such a living letlin person. I have
guy friends. I don't care if my guys have girlfriends,

(54:52):
but like, you don't know these women, and you are
blatantly making the connection in real time, and I'm watching
you engage with new half may get chicks on Twitter.
And when I tell you, he literally was like, Zuri,
are you serious right now? You know what You're about
to lose me. You're about to lose me because this

(55:12):
is crazy. I'll hear a question to me. I'm with
you like it's Twitter, it's Twitter. I will never forge.
I was in the parking lot of like Walmart, and
I remember being so confused and like near tears because
I was like, am I tripping I'm about to lose him?
Maybe I shouldn't ask that question. I got off the
phone with him and resolved to call my friends when

(55:35):
I was feeling alienated, insecure, belittled, and I was like,
I'll just vent to them and hopefully that'll get it
out so that I don't have to address it with him,
because maybe I am tripping the fact that my mind
ever got there. It breaks my heart right that to
be that young and that naive. I believed him for

(55:57):
even half a second, and even still a few weeks
later it imploded. God was like, girl, okay, just time out,
Like you're clearly not catching the hands, so I'm just
gonna literally pull you out of this. But the fact
that he was so good at it is what threw me.
And it took years to fully process that I was

(56:17):
being manipulated and that he was gaslighting me, and that
I wasn't being unreasonable in my requests. And it was
fuckery because it was peppered in with all the sweet stuff.
I'm like, just be a douchebag, so I can label
you a douchebag. But he would always keep me on
this like baited hook, and then as soon as we

(56:38):
got close he would pull away. It was pretty pretty shitty.
I just realized who that was, and I'm like, oh
my god, it was a lot. You never tell me
who it is, because if you ever point this dude
out in public, it's it's on on site, on site again.
Now you have to hop a light to the middle
of nowhere to even be on it. I'm Paddy, and

(56:59):
I in my head and I'm Harmon has already done
done her work. Well now he's ugly. Now he's he's
ugly and old. So um and and honestly, since then,
like I'm such a person, and like I can forgive.
I don't forget, but I'll move on. You don't have
that access to me anymore. For you, he tried after

(57:22):
that to give me back into his toxic little orbit.
It never did. But we were friendly in the years
that came to pass. I even linked up with him
once or twice, purely platonic. We caught up and he
was fine and civil and kind. And it's so sad
that it's when someone becomes emotionally open and available to
you that that activates your toxicity and your abuse, because
he's only acted like he had since ever since then.

(57:43):
I don't talk to him at all anymore. Um. But
it's so crazy. The people who open their heart to
you are the ones you want to treat the most
unkind like that's wow, wow, anyways, and I think that's important.
I'm sorry, I just want to say, like, I think
it's so important to like talk about this things because
there are people right now that are in those situations
and they have no idea that there's a name to

(58:04):
it um and I just didn't know, like you, and
like many of us, it's like you think it's a
real thing. Like you're like, oh, this must be just
how relationships go. This is just what love is. You
go through ups and downs, and it's like you get
older and you're like, oh, wait a minute, Like no,
like my, my, the person I love shouldn't be putting
me down or should it be chipping away at my

(58:24):
confidence and shouldn't be throwing in peppering in you know,
insults in with compliments at the same time. And I
shouldn't feel like I'm on a hook and it's a
roller coaster ride. Like none of that is normal. And
these are important distinctions to make in the context of
like also situation ships or friends with benefits or any

(58:45):
of those things, because the lines can become blurred so
quickly in any of those situations that you should be
looking out for what some of those things are like
when you're with their friends with benefits situation, you, in
my opinion, like you shouldn't be feeling this way about
things you shouldn't that person shouldn't be doing in any
of these situations treating you like that, whether it's your

(59:06):
friends with benefits or your situation ship or you're like
so called partner, any of that stuff. But this is
why the lines get blurred so quickly, and why it's
also sometimes important, depending on who you are as a person,
to have clear boundaries about what these what the definitions
of these relationships are so that you're able to like
better spot those things. You know, you only get better

(59:27):
with with age and with time and with life lessons
like I couldn't have done you know what I did
what I do now when I was eighteen, nineteen or twenty. Obviously,
if we all have these like stupid funk boys in
our lives doing crazy things, treating us like shit, or
you know, having women at the patio door now that
I mean I wanted to never happen, but I'm very
not likely ever happened to me now, but that's because

(59:50):
we lived and we learned. For wrapping up, we're reaching
the end of the conversation, but I want to close
with like your bits of advice For something that I
have said before on the podcast, I'll say it again,
do not be the fuck boy of your own life.

(01:00:11):
Like dudes might come in, women might come in and
try to mess your stuff up, self set or sabotage you,
um throw you for a loop, sell you a dream,
and then pull the rug from under you. But if
all I can control is myself and how I react
to situations, I have signed up for the free for

(01:00:31):
lack of a better phrase on more than one occasion,
more often than I care to admit. And at that
point I realized, in those past moments it was self sabotage.
I could only be so mad at the f boys
in my life, at the people screwing me over because
I was doing it to myself. I was inviting them in.
I had opportunities to learn lessons, and then instead of

(01:00:55):
learning them, I signed myself up for more drama, more toxicity,
more of the petty or the messiness they promised. This
was different. I knew it wasn't gonna be. I took
de bait anyway. And so I think it's so important
for us as women to stand in our power, to
sit with the lessons we've learned, and also, um, embrace

(01:01:15):
our gut right at a certain At a certain point,
you start to learn the lessons, and your gut does sharpen. Now,
we get really good at ignoring it. But early twenties something,
you're Rosie, she didn't know those were honest mistakes. When
these dudes were treating me like crap or selling me
a dream or lying to me, I was very confused

(01:01:35):
and conflicted with how to navigate it. Thirty something year
old ZERI doesn't really have those excuses anymore. And so
when slash, if I continue to engage with that behavior,
I'm the f boy now for my life, Like, I
can't be mad at anyone but me because I know better. Um,
And that doesn't mean I don't give myself grace, And

(01:01:56):
that doesn't mean we don't have hearts. And sometimes someone
really good gets in there and tugs at it a
little bit and you slip, But you just gotta bounce back,
you know what I'm saying. You just gotta dust it
off and be like, what would your advice be to
your younger self, to yourself even now? I know you're
married now Ashley Cleo, you're single, Um, but when it
comes to not being the f boyd of your own life,

(01:02:19):
what do you hope the ladies at home listening remember
about how not to self sabotage, about how not to
set yourself up for failure, and about how not to
stay in a situation longer than it serves you. Yeah,
I think I would say, like, one of the things
I was really intentional about going into my not marriage

(01:02:39):
but like my relationship, was not to bring anything from
the past into my new relationship. I never forget things right,
So I'm definitely was a lot more guarded in this situation.
But I also it's not it's not fair to anybody
knew to punish them for the sins of the person
that you dated before, right, especially you, especially when you

(01:03:00):
chose to stay in situations like these are all choices.
So definitely, like, don't bring past situations into your new
your new relationship. Um. But the other thing is like
trust yourself. If something doesn't feel right, it's because there's
something wrong, And you know that's not to confuse like
you're gonna go through growing pains and your relationships, but

(01:03:22):
like your relationships should not be painful. You should not
feel like bad about yourself and your relationship. Like you
should not feel like I have to change some part
of myself or I'm not pretty enough, or I'm not
skinny enough, or I'm not whatever enough for my person,
Like they should never make you feel like that. And
so anytime you're starting to feel like something doesn't feel

(01:03:43):
right for you, then like, please take a pause and
figure out where those feelings and emotions are coming from,
and trust yourself enough to know that, like, Okay, I'm
this probably is not the relationship for me, because anything
happening when you're dating amplifies by twenty when you get married.
That's one of the things that I've learned and I
share with my friends now that I know it. Um,
So that for sure is a couple of things, And

(01:04:05):
I think the last one is just like to to
hold your power close to you, like even though I
am married, like I mean, I'm always going to keep
my happiness first. And that's something that like we talk
about in our relationship all the time. Like he's going
to keep his happiness first, and I'm going to keep
my happiness first, because that's how we're going to come
to the table as to hold people and be able
to function um in like a healthy way. Um. And

(01:04:27):
so anytime that's not working for either one of us,
like now we have to have a conversation, right, and so, UM,
hold your power. Always protect yourself, like you're still an
individual person at the end of the day, like who
when you're in a relationship, you're sharing that space with
someone else. But never give away like who you are
and your power, even if you're in a serious relationship

(01:04:48):
or you're in a domestic partnership or if you get married, Like,
never ever ever give that away. So that's what I
would say. Yeah, really, Will said really good advice, Cleo,
how can me not the asp of our own life? Well,
I think there's one question you asked earlier. You said, like,
what would you tell your younger self, like younger women.

(01:05:09):
I think the first thing I would say is, um,
don't forget that you're worthy. And what changed for me
in how I deal with or approach these situations or
friends with benefits things is that when I was younger,
I was um, very like I'm happy to be here,
I'm excited that, like you've picked me, I'm excited that
you're giving me attention. And it's a tiny switch of

(01:05:31):
perspective um where it's never that case with any man anymore.
I'm not excited that you're giving me attention UM or
happy like, oh you you chose me because whatever. Um,
I've shed a lot of that, like past trauma about
not feeling worthy or beautiful or any of those things.
And so now when I enter these relationships or any

(01:05:52):
any anything with a man, UM, I am there as
someone who understands that I'm worthy of the attention effect
shouldn't love of anybody. And if I'm choosing to have
this relationship be something that is friends with benefits or
situationship or whatever you want to call it, it's because
I've made that choice because it's what's aligned with me
right now, and not because it is what the other

(01:06:15):
person decided they wanted, because they chose me quote unquote
to be in that. And and this speaks to the
reason why even my current friends with Benefits is about
to end because right now, like I had said before,
it's just no longer serving me and I want to
date with more intention right now. I want to um
be with somebody who reciprocates the same energies that I do,

(01:06:38):
and and right now that's I'm not getting it from
this relationship. So it was very very quick turn um
from becoming something of ease and and use. And it's there,
and I'm in a pandemic. We Toronto has been closed
whatever whatever to literally a switch one off and I'm like, oh, now,
we're done with this now, and I don't need to

(01:06:59):
question it within myself anymore because I know that I'm
worthy of all the things that I want. So I
would say, try to keep that in the back of
your mind and all the things that you're doing, and
and worthiness takes practice. So fail faster, Fail faster is
the number one rule of life. Fail faster and learn
from your mistakes. Yeah, the sooner you fail is there anything,

(01:07:22):
bounce back, realize what we went wrong, and then pivot.
It's great, that's great. I would say that the biggest
thing for me, the biggest two things, really, one is
not settling. And I don't mean that in the My
laundry list of what I want in a man is
so ridiculously long. That I'm gonna just be here until
eighty five waiting for the perfect person. But to your
point earlier, Ashley, if it doesn't feel good, there's a reason.

(01:07:47):
You know, when something feels right, And even if it
doesn't make sense on paper, and it seems like maybe
on paper you are settling, if it feels right, there's
something to that. And I think so often we get
distracted by what society is as we should want, by
what our girlfriends expected us to have, by what we
told ourselves we wanted when we were twelve, thirteen, fourteen

(01:08:07):
years old, Um, that we ignore how we feel to
either make a thing work or to ignore a thing
that's working, because we're in self sabotage mode. And so
really learning to listen to your gut um is something
that I would encourage people to do. Is something that
I've certainly been trying to sharpen in recent years. Um.
And I also have said, you know, I first had

(01:08:30):
this empiphany when I was newly single in my late twenties,
which is self love is so key. When I think
about f boys right and their behavior and how they're
hot in their colds. Some days they treat you good.
Sometimes they treat you like crap. We do it to
ourselves so often. Some days I'm eating sweet green salads
and drinking kombucha and doing my yoga, and I'm feeling

(01:08:51):
good and happy, I'm hydrated. And then other days I'm like,
they're steventine cold French fries in the fridge, Zurie, just
eat and shut up and go to work for thirty
seven hours and like deal with it. And it's so
unkind to myself. And if I was being reasonable and
just taking a breath, I realize there's way more time
for self love and self nourishment than we realize, and

(01:09:14):
that we want to admit. And I can't ask a
thing of a person that I'm not willing to give myself.
So when it comes to avoiding the you know, the
effery and the f boys, I think the better I
treat myself, the more clear it becomes, and the more
quickly I realize when someone isn't treating me well. If

(01:09:36):
every day I show up half asked in my own life,
I'm normalizing what it feels like to kind of show up.
And so when someone comes into my life and does that,
well that just goes normal. That's just what humans do
I do it to myself? Why would I be any
more upset at you for doing it to me? But
when you were treating yourself good, and you are loving

(01:09:57):
on yourself and pouring into yourself, and you've got ho
bees and a strong friend group, community, family friends, you
start to feel so fulfilled that you don't need anything else.
And so when you feel something that's red flag, red flag,
it's easier to walk away from it because it doesn't
feel like the only source of nourishment or love or

(01:10:20):
affection or attention. And we have the power to give
that to ourselves. So I just encourage everyone to pour
into yourself, you know, the way that you eventually hope
that a partner will to um because that's certainly, certainly,
certainly will gospel. In a word from one Missouri Hall,

(01:10:42):
happy event Well, ladies, I love you both. I so
appreciate the time and the wisdom and the horror stories
that you share with me and with our happiness audience. Um,
they love y'all. By the way, like people are always
so excited, chats are like the favorite episodes. If people
want to keep up with you, where can they find you? Ashley?

(01:11:06):
You can find me on Instagram y'all at at ash
ray A s h r A y E. But honestly,
I have been very intentional the last probably six months
about not being on social media so much. Um for
a yeah, at you today, like, can I get a
double tap? I did repast, I did repost on stories Okay, yeah,

(01:11:27):
for my own mental health reasons. But um, every now
and then I may like post and pop up. But
that's where you can follow me on on on Instagram.
M okay, amazing. You guys can all follow me on
Instagram or Twitter at Cleo C L e O. Last
name is E L l I S with an underscore
at the end and lovett. And of course y'all can

(01:11:50):
follow me at Zuri Hall's U R I h A
l L or at Hot Happy Mess. Uh. Stay tuned, y'all.
We've got new episodes every Wednesday this season season two.
We're doing within days, no more Mondays. We're getting you
through hump Day. Okay, So make sure that you are subscribed, um,
so you get those notifications. I think nowadays you have
to turn on an alert or something to even know
when there's a new episode. To make sure you do

(01:12:12):
that so you don't miss anything. We have so many
really fun, cool episodes coming up about astrology, dating abroad,
how to make friends as an adult with an actual
expert whose job it is to help women make friends
as adults, which I think is just fascinating. Um, a
really cool one about a really cool one about mantras
and affirmations. Um. So make sure you guys are subscribed

(01:12:33):
if you want to be featured on the podcast. This
is a top priority for me this season. Real women,
real stories, whether you have a wild confession, whether you
have something you just want to get off of your heart.
If an episode spoke to you and you have something
you want to share with our audience, hit me up.
I honest to go out. I want to talk to you.
So submit your story to hot hoppy mess dot com

(01:12:54):
or slide in the d M s, or you can
email us hello at hot happy mess dot com with
your story, what it is you want to share with
the audience, or what you want to talk about, or
if you have a question for me, hit me up.
Asked the question. I'm clearly too much of an open
book sometimes, so I'll probably answer um and really quickly
before we go. If you can be a real one
to leave a five star review, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iTunes,

(01:13:18):
all the places. Well it's Rochelle says. I love it.
I'm late to the party, but I love the topics.
Every discussion is super relatable. And I'm binge listening at
this point. Rochelle, that is what we love to hear.
Keep on binging. And if you're listening now and haven't
left a review yet, go ahead and drop us five
stars and a quick well you know something something, tell
us how you're like in the show. Um, and that's that.

(01:13:39):
I will talk to you next week. Ashley Cleo, thank
you both so much again. Um, this is not happy mess.
I'm ZERI hall next weekie next weekie next weekie next
Weekill next week
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