Dating Abroad with Christine Job

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
H m hm, Hot Happy Mess, celebrate your magic in
the middle of life's messes. Hot Happy. I'm Zeri Hall
and this is hot happy Mess. Cute. Hello, Hello, welcome

(00:26):
back to Hot Happy Mess. Baby who we were gone
for a minute. Now we're back. Don't say with the
jump off, don't stay with the jump off. Oh my god,
I am sorry. What's up, y'all? I'm Zeri Hall. This
is hot Happy Mess. We took a hiatus. We took
a little bit of a break. We got some rest,

(00:48):
some relaxation, some restoration, um, some realignment. All of the
things that are necessary and good and um must happen
so that we can do this whole best life thing
minus the burnout. Right. So, it's been a little while
since I got to talk with you one on one
on the podcast. I've missed you. I've seen your comments

(01:10):
and your d m s and your tweets asking about
when we'd be back with a new episode and things
that you wanted to hear or talk about. And I
am so excited to be back. So thank you for
your patients. We have a lot to cover, a lot
to talk about. UM. I actually batched quite a few
episodes right before the hiatus, so you're gonna get um.

(01:33):
The next few weeks of rollouts are episodes, just so
that you understand for context in case anything sounds a
little bit like wait, what this is not sounding like
in October moment or an Opener moment UM, it's because
we were recording some of these in the summer. We
were recording some of them in the summer. We've had

(01:54):
some changes to the Hot Happy Mess team. I am
very excited to tell you what is happening and what
is in store and what's going to be going down
moving forward very soon, but not in this episode, because
in this episode we are locking in on dating Abroad,
love Abroad. Just a quick update on sort of what's

(02:16):
been going on with me in my life. We are
in the thick of it, um, lots of red carpets
and movie junkets with access Hollywood. UM. I am in
the middle of the interior design process in my house.
I don't know if you all saw or not, but
I recently I did a partnership with Havenley earlier in
the year, and I think I've talked about this on
the show. UM, but I completely redid my living room.

(02:41):
Essence magazine. They actually have an article up if you
want to go check that out with photos of the
before and the after. And I am so in love
with the living room. It's such a place of peace.
It's a lot of warm neutrals and ivories and browns
and creams and olive greens. And I actually I bought myself, um,
this really gorgeous blanket, and I promised myself I wasn't

(03:05):
going to unbox it until after the living room was done.
So I bought this air Mes blanket that, um, you know,
you just throw over the couch. And it was in
the cute little box, a little orange box, for like
a year, collecting dust because that's how long it took
for me to finish anything in this house. But I
have dusted off the box. I have finally allowed myself

(03:27):
to open it up and throw the blanket over the
couch as the final touch on a finished living room design.
And now I'm excited for the next thing because I
am never satisfied and always looking for another project. Um,
So next up, I want to focus on the dining room,
make it, make it cozier. Um. And also, like the
family didn't like the home theater area, I really wanted

(03:50):
to feel lived in and cultured and elevated and really
cozy and combine you know, a little bit of that
West Coast callie cool energy with my Midwestern upbringing and
just really like walking into a home and having it
feel comfortable and lived in. I am not into those

(04:11):
super cold, all white, sterile like box looking houses, no
shade to those houses. My house kind of looks like
that to start. But my plan was to paint everything
warm whites and warm neutrals and then start to add
flavor and color via art and um texture and fabrics
and rugs and all of that stuff. So also, if

(04:33):
you all know of any incredible artists, please please please
send them my way. UM. I'd love to get some
amazing customer and on the walls, UM, even pieces that
aren't customer original. And I'd also love to support um,
some black designers, some black artists, maybe with a commission
piece if fiffff, if the budget allows for that, So

(04:58):
send me all of your artists and if we are
going to try to do this in the most cost
effective way possible. Okay, anyways, uh, back to the subject
at hand. I hope you are well. I'm excited to
get back into the group with you. Today's episode is
a topic that we have not explored yet. It's dating abroad.
And uh, this woman's story is so fascinating. She's so

(05:20):
much fun. We are talking about the best dating apps
when you're traveling abroad, how to date while on vacation.
Go ahead and get your groove back. I am not
mad at it. I advocate for it. Um if the
dating scene is better overseas, especially and particularly for women
of color, UM and black women and so much more so. UM.

(05:42):
Let me think, have I ever dating abroad? I mean,
obviously if you obviously, I was in a relationship quite
a while ago, many many years ago, um, internationally. But
we've actually met in the States. But because of that relationship,
I got to go back and forth UM to Europe,
specifically to the Netherlands, UM a lot off and on.

(06:03):
And that was my first introduction to even the idea
of living abroad, UM, dating abroad. And I have found,
um that it's really fun to be single internationally. You know,
outside of that relationship. After I ended that relationship, there
were chapters when I was super single and happened to
be overseas and I just got to tell you, UM,

(06:25):
it's a good time, y'all. It's just like there's something
about landing in another country where it feels, at least
for me, like there are no rules right like who
you are and um the zury of of the States
is just back at the border and you kind of
get to create this this new world and this new
life and anything goes, but you can kind of build

(06:49):
a new social circle explore. UM. They're not ties to
these ideas of who you are or who you were
based on where you've lived and who you used to
hang out with and who you used today. It's kind
of like anything os and I love that. UM. Dating
in France, I mean we love a French accent. UM.
I've gotten on some dates in Paris that's cute, and

(07:10):
may have had a couple of moments in London through
the years. Loved that for me. Um Where else have
I hung out or got on a date or two France?
In the UK? Those are those are the the ones
I can speak to the most. But I've been really curious,

(07:31):
not even for myself, which is big picture about dating abroad, UM,
across many borders, UM, particularly when it comes to you know,
countries that I haven't been lucky enough to spend a
ton of time. Like one of my favorite favorite cities
in the entire world is Cape Town, and I've been

(07:52):
there twice now, but for very short work trips. But
I always thought whenever i'd go, I'm like, man, this
is a place that I could really spend something unificant time. Um.
And so I've always wondered. You know, I have friends
on the ground there who are in the entertainment industry
in South Africa, and they're always telling me about what
it's like dating there, why they hate it, why they
love it, why they feel like it would be so

(08:13):
much better if they were in l A or New
York or whatever. And I'm like, you say that now,
but wait till you get here, um, fake news. It's
it's not It's not all it's cracked up to be.
But I've always wondered that so um other parts of
Western Europe, various African countries. I am fascinated by dating culture,

(08:35):
particularly in India, UM. And I am excited to learn
more about, you know, how everybody gets down in other
parts of the world and what works and what doesn't.
There's so much that gets lost in translation sometimes because
of those cultural differences, but I also find that to
be the most fascinating and exciting part of getting to
know or dating someone from a completely different culture. And

(08:59):
so I don't mean just two Americans from different you know,
racial backgrounds or whatever it may be. I'm talking about
completely different countries, possibly completely different religions, completely different ways
of viewing the world, which honestly, in America you can
have two Americans. And that's to hopeful, very much like
the situation. But that's a different conversation for a different day.

(09:21):
So let's talk about it. Let's get into it, shall we. Um.
I'm trying to think if there's any fun like most
memorable international date that I've ever got on to share
with you guys. I did have this really fun day
in Paris once on a very casual day, um quite
a few years ago at this point, but I just

(09:42):
remember it was summertime. I was in address with chucks,
like y'all know, I love a sneaker comfort is key,
and the guy had a motorcycle. It was all so
very French. It was just the best sort of like
cliche French day Parisian day you could dream of. And
we hopped on his bike and we rode through the

(10:05):
streets of Paris and went to I can't remember which museum,
but it was incredible. And it wasn't the obvious museum,
like we didn't go to Boliver or maybe we did
at a different point, but this was some other smaller
museum and it was it just felt so local. And
so we're walking through the museum, we're taking pictures of
the art. Um of the different statues is just gorgeous. Um.

(10:27):
We popped out of the museum back on the bike
and then explored these tiny little cobblestone roads. UM grabs
lunch at a tiny little cafe out on the sidewalk,
because you know, one of the things I love most
about a lot of Western European cities is how those
tables sit out on the sidewalk and face out so
that you can actually enjoy people watching and taking in
the sites, sounds, the smells of these incredible cities, specifically Paris.

(10:52):
At this point, Um and then day turned tonight and
we ended up driving around Paris at on the bike
with the Eiffel Tower glittering, I mean just lit up.
It was giving Emily in Paris before Emily with Ever
in Paris Okay, it was Zuri haul in Paris, living

(11:14):
her best life and loving every minute. Um So, I
highly recommend it if you can ever, um you know,
find a random handsome stranger, maybe do a background check
first two, take it through Paris out of motorcycle. I
loved it anyways. Time for today's episode. Um Today, our
guest is sharing her story of meeting her boyfriend on

(11:36):
a layover and then moving to Spain for him, dealing
with international boys, exoticism, intercultural conflicts, and more. Um So,
without further ado, let's get into it. Here's Christine. All right.
Christine is here with me now. She currently lives in Barcelona,

(11:57):
where she hosts Flourish in the Foreign. It's a pod
cast that celebrates elevation and affirms the voices and stories
of black women living and thriving abroad, while exploring living
abroad as a pathway to wellness, which I absolutely love. Christine,
and welcome to the show. Thank you so much for
having me. I'm really really excited to chat with you.

(12:18):
And I've actually moved. I've moved from Barcelona to Valencia,
so now just found the coast. Okay, we've moved out
the coast. I love that. Okay, So Christina is currently
in Valencia. How long have you been in Valencia? Since
August last year? So almost a year? Yeah, okay, you're
drunk of time. How are you liking it? I love it.

(12:38):
It's less Torsey than Barcelona, It's friendlier. It's just a
chiller vibe, and I think my spirit needed that. It
needed to some renaxation, it needed some friendly faces. That's
what I needed. Okay, good, well, I'm glad that you've
found that there. I cannot wait to hear about your journey,
because really, you're just living the life that I feel

(12:59):
like I'm supposed to be living. I'm not supposed to
be stopped in one spot just hanging out. It's California,
so no complaints. But I absolutely fascinated by expact culture.
People who are brave enough and bold enough to just
go out into new worlds and new places and carve
out a life for themselves. And I've done it in

(13:20):
different ways career wise, but obviously only ever in the States.
But I'm so fascinated by UM international experiences and travels UM,
particularly ones that feel even semi permanent. So thank you
for sharing your story with us today. UM let's go
ahead and just dive in with how the travel buck

(13:40):
first hit you in this way. Where are you from originally,
and when did you decide that you wanted to get
out of there. I'm from Atlanta, and I think I
always knew I wanted to live abroad, Like it consciously
came to me when I was seventeen, And I think
that was because my dad is Trinidadian, so you know,
immigrants father grandparents. And then on my mom's side, I

(14:05):
always call this like a small nomadic tribe of women
have no problem like getting up and going. Like when
my grandmother, you know, was alive, she would just be out.
We'd be calling her house, she wouldn't be home. She'd
come back a week later, she's like, oh yeah, I
was in a Ruba lady. He gives you go in places.
She's like, oh, yeah, I can, and I will. So

(14:26):
for me, I think it's just always been in my blood.
And then when I was about ten years old, my
parents were divorced and my dad actually got stationed in Germany,
and so I would spend my summers in Germany. So
it just was a thing, like I never learned the
fear of flying or being different spaces, even in different languages.

(14:46):
And I did speak any German. I know about enough
German to ask the pastry lady um at the baker
yabt go to to be like, oh, can I have
my favorite pastry? And she just spent look at this
little black girl with her a little bit of do
you like get a pastry? And they'd be like all right,
Like that's the only about the German I knew. But
you know, I just knew that I just never had

(15:09):
the fear. And then because I was going abroad to
see my dad, and then also my mom would go
on like girls trips and just leave us at home
and be like bye, not alone but with my stuff. Right,
But she was living, she was living with her girlfriends,
and she went to Spain before I did, and went
to Mexico and like live the life. That gave me,

(15:32):
I think, the courage to even think about living and traveling.
And then it really wasn't until I was in university
and I stayed abroad actually here in Valencia fifteen years ago,
which um shutterfly keeps on reminding me with like these photos,
like hey do you want this on a mug? And

(15:52):
I'm like no, I don't want a passions on a
mug like please, Well, honestly, it's all coming back. All
of that fashion is back to where I'm like, Oh God,
am I old enough now that I could have just
kept all of my clothes because jen Z is out
here with flare legs and halter tops and y T
K sunglasses. Yes, I should have kept my Puka shell necklace.

(16:13):
I should have kept. I could have sell that like
on some vintage you know, thrift shop website. I should
have kept all my stuff, my butterfly clips, everything, It's
not coming back. So I did that, um in college,
and I didn't have like the best time studying abroad.
You know, it wasn't like I don't know Emily in Paris.
It wasn't that at all. But it didn't deter me

(16:35):
from traveling, and so I still traveled. I still wanted
to live abroad. UM. I graduate from university. I went
to law school, which was an interesting choice. UM, and
I didn't really come back to wanting to travel again
until after I graduated from law school, and I just

(16:56):
was trying to figure it out, like how am I
going to make this happen? I ended up actually landing
a job site unseen in qual Umpur in Malaysia, and
I was hyped because I was in Atlanta at the time.
I'd gone to school in Miami, had returned to Atlanta,
and I was like, yeah, I'm getting out of here,
you know, gave up my beautiful apartment in Edmond Park, Atlanta,

(17:18):
was staying in the suburbs with my mom um, getting
ready to go, trying to get my visa together when
it fell through, and I was just like, what do
you mean I don't have a job, Like what do
you what do you mean I'm not going to through?
It wasn't a visa situation. No, the job fell through.
They're like, oh yeah no. And I was like okay,
because now I don't got a job and I'm living

(17:40):
the suburbs with my mom. There's problems here, you know.
I told everybody I would have like a farewell tour.
I was like bye, you know, and that wasn't gonna happen,
and so I was angry and I was like, what
am I gonna do with my life? This is some
bs And I ended up going on a mountain range

(18:00):
that's actually close to my mom's house or her old house,
called Canniswan Mountain. I was just like trying to walk out.
The anger was really helping. I was just like angry
hiking um and a thought came to me and it
was like Communo Santiago and I was like what now.
I had never heard of the Communo Santiago except for
like six months prior from a friend of mine. It

(18:21):
was like New Year's We're out to dinnersh we were
talking about bucket lists, what we're gonna be doing. She
was like, yeah, I really want to walk this Communo Santiago.
It's like, what is that. She's like, yeah, that's a
really cool trip. We just walk across Spain. And I
was like, why would you do that? I'm like, what
do you mean you just walk across space. She's like, yeah,
you have like a backpack, just walk across Spain. And
I was like, okay, girl, if that's what you want

(18:44):
to do, like you go do that. So the past
forward six months, I'm going on this angry hike. This
thought keeps on coming to me and it haunts me
for days, and nothing like that has ever happened to
me in my life, and so I'm like, final, look
it up. I want to like this forum and it's like, oh, yeah,
this is a five hundred mile trek across Spain. I

(19:05):
was like, oh this is this is not for me
because I'm not out doorsy, because I was like, I'm
out doorsy, like I like to have brunch on terraces,
not like exactly. And he kept on haunting me, and
I made up like all this excuses as to why
I couldn't do it, why I like, I was like,
I'm a single woman. I can't do it. I'm scared.

(19:25):
And then I scrolled down the website and there's like
this grandma who's like, this is my fiftieth Comuno and
I was like, man, I can't let grandma like I
would you like that? Nope, I can't. So I turned
that like job falling through from Malaysia into the very
next month. In August two fourteen, I was in France

(19:51):
and I was walking the commune of Santiago over to
the French Pyrenees into Spain, and thirty three days later
I was on the Atlantic coast of Spain, finishing into
the community Santiago, being like, I guess I can do anything,
so I'm going to move to Spain and like that's
like the short story and like how and why that

(20:12):
is fascinating. So waite it was a thirty three day journey.
I mean, I'm assuming obviously you're stopping along the way,
you're exploring the country. Is it safe to say you
fell in love with Spain over the course of that month?
Is that what sold you on moving there? I mean,
I'd already loved Spain. I've been to Spain before, but
I think what really happened, just like on the Camino,

(20:34):
it's just an act of meditation. A lot of nonsense
I hadn't dealt with within myself just bubbled up to
the surface because you're just out here, really alone with
other people. But like you're just out here with your thoughts.
You can't hide from yourself things that you're like, I
don't I don't care, I don't feel that. It's like
just coming up and just tears and you're like, I

(20:56):
don't know what's coming out. You know, like you have
to deal with yourself. You have to get to know
yourself in different stressful situations. And also it was just
like I made a lot of excuses before to hesitate
in my life. I made a lot of excuses as
to why I couldn't do things right. I was like,
I'm not outdoorsy, I can't do this, and I recognize

(21:19):
that it really is me saying no to myself. And
so over the course of that time, I was like,
I just want to say yes to myself, like one time,
and it doesn't mean that it's like all of a sudden,
I'd like, you know, speed walk across Spain. No, like
I got tennanites on my feet. We were left up

(21:40):
because I had, if prepared there messed up. But what
I learned was like step by step, you know, or
in Spanish basso basso, like you can not only accomplish things,
but like you can give yourself the benefit of the doubt.
It doesn't have to be like all or nothing. You
could just say yes to this moment for me. And

(22:01):
so it was that combination of you know, seeing them
a part of Spain yes, and I was like, I
want to live here. There was also this just recognition
of how much I had been playing myself, like I
hadn't really been giving myself the benefit of the doubt,
and so I was like, I think I can move
to Spain, and I think I'm gonna make it happen.

(22:23):
I love that saying yes to this moment because it
really is just one foot in front of the other.
You look up and you've walked miles, not just literally
but figuratively. Also, you look up at a certain point
and you created an entirely different life for yourself. And
it started with that that one yes, that one step
UM at a certain point, you decided to start a
podcast about this, this new life that you're living, about

(22:46):
others or four others who are inspired to um experience
a similar adventure in their own life. Tell me a
little bit about the podcast. Yeah, So my podcast is
called Flourished in the Foreign. It is all about celebrating
the voices and stories of Black women across the diaspra
living and thriving abroad, while exploring living abroad as a

(23:10):
pathway to wellness. I launched it May in the height
of Spanish lockdown, which was very different than us lockdown
because we were actually locked down, could not leave the
apartment unless we were taking out the trash or going
to the supermarket. It was intense, But I wanted to

(23:30):
create the platform because I recognized that, you know, like
I said before, I wanted to live abroad. I knew
I wanted to live abroad since I was seventeen. I
was trying to figure it out for many, many years.
But I just did hear stories of women that looked
like us that was doing it. And I think if
I had heard the stories seeing these faces, I would

(23:53):
have figured out many different ways to do it faster,
because I'd be like, oh, is that what you're going through?
Or like, oh I didn't know I could just do this,
this and this, or oh my gosh, this is a
cool place to live a black people, all right, let
me think about that. And so I throughout my travels
and living abroad, I would just meet incredible black women
and I just have these amazing conversations. They're like, oh yeah, girl,

(24:15):
I've been living thing for three years? What ye or anywhere?
And I'm like, people should know you, like I wish
I would have known you earlier. And so I was
just like, I just want to capture our stories because look,
across the diaspra, you know, our stories are not told right.
A lot of people still to this day, are like,

(24:37):
do you think you could have enough stories for your podcast?
You can't even run out of stories. I'm like see.
The issue is that you think that I would because
you don't see us right, Like you don't see us
out here, so you're like, oh, are they black women
doing this? And it's like, yeah, we just mind our business.
So that business we're not getting right, like we're not
getting legal issues. We just mind not business, enjoying, you know,

(25:00):
our life. But it's so important for us to tell
our stories and for us to to do that for
us by us because I shared history that all black
women and people across that I asked for have is
that our history for the most part, wasn't really defined
or written by us. It's written by victors in history,

(25:22):
and we weren't the victors in a lot of situations.
And so for me, I didn't want to wait until
this was cool or like whatever, and they're so and
so wanted to do a story on black women living abroad?
Can you believe it? Like no, we've been doing this,
and I wanted to showcase our stories and what we
wanted to talk about in our feelings about ourselves, our blackness,

(25:46):
our our womanhood. That was really important to me, and
that's why the podcast is a personal narrative. You don't
even really hear a lot from me because I want
the women to tell their stories and their words, to
share their thoughts, their struggles, their triumphs, and also reflect
on how making this really monumental decision to leave everything

(26:08):
that you know, right, your culture, your your context, Like
that's the thing people don't recognize, Like you make sense
within like a certain context you come out of as
that context, people be like, Okay, it's interesting, it's all
about right, Like, you leave that and you decide that
you're going to thrive. You're going to figure out what

(26:29):
is it that I really want, not with the society
that I come from, without what my family wants, but
and not even necessarily the country that I'm living in,
Like what do I want? Like what is my wellness?
What actually do I value? And I just I wanted
to showcase it and I have and I'm so proud
of it, and the women are so fantastic, and yeah,

(26:50):
I just love it. You've brought up wellness. You've said
that living abroad can be a pathway to wellness, and
obviously you know how happy mess is all about best
life minus the burnout. I got to a point in
my twenties, late twenties where I was just not well.
I was unwell, you know, like mentally, physically, spiritually depleted,

(27:11):
and I had to figure out what works for me.
It's interesting to hear you say that living abroad could
very much be a pathway to that for people. I'm
curious to know in what ways, Like what would you
say would be the number one or number two ways? Um,
that this journey has led to wellness for you, because
some might think, oh my god, that sounds stressful, that

(27:33):
sounds exhausting, or do I get the money, like the
opposite of wellness. So what about doing this has helped
make you well? Yeah? Like you're right, because living abroad
is a hassle. I was gonna let everybody know that
it's a little like, no, it's a hassle. And the
wellness isn't just like arriving at the airport like I
just arrived in Barcelona was like well, like, no, it

(27:56):
didn't happen like that. Right, the wellness comes. And my
belief is in you're actually in this interesting gap, right,
so you're outside of your cultural context. You don't have
those societal pressures in that timeline. I'm from Atlanta. The
societal timeline for Atlanta for women is like we can
you can still get married out of high school. People

(28:17):
really won't like bad and I out of college like cool.
If you wait till after grad school, they're like all right,
you're like jatric, like I am a grandma at this point,
it's like in time, they're like why why did you married?
What's going on? So moving outside of that context, you're
not beholden to these expectations. While also you're in a

(28:39):
situation where your foreign and your other so nobody's really
expecting you to conform to these expectations. Now, obviously always
being respectful of cultural norms and things like that, but
they're not like, oh, why aren't you doing this and
this and this. They're like, you're a foreigner. We guess
that's what foreigners do. Like all right, that's what you're doing.
So you're actually given this space to breathe and decide. Now,

(29:02):
if you move abroad with intention, which you can do
in that space, is you can make conscious decisions and choices. Now,
these choices aren't always like oh, maybe i'll wake up
at ten o'clock today or maybe I'll have siesta, Like
that's not actually where the wellness is the wellness is
in leaning into the contrast that you actually feel because

(29:24):
I'm I'm American, I'm Southern, like we have a certain
kind of way of life, and it doesn't it's not
really an alignment with like Spanish lifestyle. And I could,
like a lot of ex pats complain and be like,
why y'all got lucky charms? Like what is up with this?
I mean some lucky charms in my life and you're like,
you're not gonna have lucky charms. But what you could

(29:45):
do instead of complaining and like stonewalling yourself from a
culture from experience, is be curious to the other choices
that are at hand. And that's where the wellness is.
You start surrendering to this experience. And I make I
always used the example of breakfast because people one gets
super angry about breakfast all over ex platforms, and I'm

(30:06):
not sure why it's territorial over what you should or
shouldn't be eating, whether you should eat at all, Like
where's the argument? Look these Brits And yeah, I'm gonna
call these Brits need their beans, well neither for them,
because I feel some type of way about that too.
I was in London like a month ago, and I'm like,
what are bangers and mash the beans? Like it's ten

(30:28):
ten am, I don't I don't get it, so I'm
not gonna They're always looking for a British breakfast and
they get mad when they don't have it, and I'm like, okay,
but it's that kind of thing. But that's like a
small thing, but you can get angry about like okay,
so yes, that's cool and fury, but then we have
stuff to do. You're like, oh, I can't do stuff.
And then you may go back after ses to be

(30:49):
like y'all open and they're like, actually decide not to
open again. I'm talking, you know, like what's this right?
It's in that contrast, it's in that moment of like
resistance that if you move intentionally, you can choose differently,
you can actually surrender to the experience, and it's in
those little micro decisions that the wellness actually comes into

(31:10):
your life. Why am I moving to Spain and being
angry at the Spanish way of life Like it's cool
on vacation, but I started to live. That means when
it's surrendered to this lifestyle and it's like I want
to be open to a different way of living my life,
to different value system right, I want to actually embrace

(31:32):
a version of myself that maybe could not have been
cultivated or nurtured in Atlanta. And that's what really living
abroad as a pathway to wellness is about. It isn't
crystals and bath bombs. Sorry I like them, I have them,
but that's not what it is. It's a conscious cultivation
of a life. It is going up broad and making

(31:52):
decisions about your values and what's important to you in
a different way of life, even if it feels really
uncome table. For the longest time. I actually was talking
to someone about this last week. I was never a napper,
so cs there was never a thing for me, and
I would feel anxious about napping because I was like,
I'm gonna oversleep, I'm gonna wake up grumpy and just

(32:14):
like and think it's like nineteen seventy two, Like you know,
you wake up, You're like, what was like, it's not productive? Right?
But I it took me like four years, I think
in Spain to be like, let me try this nap thing.
For years before you took a nap in Spain, I mean, yeah,
like to embrace thee us, the culture. I know. I

(32:36):
was exhausted. I was sleeping all up and down that country. Wow. No,
because the thing is like moving abroad, doesn't like moving
to Spain. And when I first went to Spain, I
actually didn't move to Barcelona. I moved to Lauter Yoha.
So wine regions. So people are like, oh, you're just
drinking wine and kicking it, and I was. I was
drinking a lot of wine excellent, so affordable, so affordable

(32:57):
that when I drink wine in the Ice States, I'd
be like, oh, no, child, how much for this gas?
Oh no, get like for two dollars, it's right now.
I'm about doing it. But look tears life and drinking
wine didn't heal me a burnout, and it didn't reprogram
my brain automatically. I had to consciously make that decision.

(33:18):
I had to think about what was it inside of
me that was resisting rest? What was it inside of
me that felt guilty? If I wasn't always doing something
that I needed to always be busy, what's up with that?
I had to actually do that work so that I
could surrender to this experience and let it really transform
me into actually embrace wellness. You know, it's a difference

(33:41):
between wellness as an aesthetic and wellness actually changing your
life and actually healing you being curious about it again,
bath bombs are cool, but bath bombs ain't gonna they're
gonna solve burnout. And that's not. Honestly, the most important
part of self care, the most were in part of
self care is being honest about your fears and your

(34:03):
beliefs that are no longer serving you and to actually
make the steps to heal that. That's what wellnesses and
I think that's what living a broad can create if
you do so intentionally. A man preaching preaching preaching, I
love that. UM. I also love what you said about
um consciously cultivating what what was the phrase you use?
Cultivating conscious living or cultivating a life well lived? Abroad?

(34:28):
Cultivating a life well lived? Because it's so important. And
the thing is is, like it really is cultivating, right,
It's not magic, fairy dust, it's not oils. Live in
Spain for five years and my life will change. No,
there's plenty people who live in proper many years and
they are not changed. And then that is what it is.
It is a cultivation. Have to think about it. We've

(34:51):
been cultivating our lives consciously or unconsciously the entire time. Right,
It's just that society gave us a certain amount of
soil and certain amount of seeds of intention, of accomplishments,
and we were taught to cultivate them, whether they were
really in align with who we were or not, whether
it was really a harvest we want to reap or not.

(35:11):
The issue is is that we come to a point
our lives and you're like, I don't want this harvest.
I don't want these carrots. I want to sleep with items.
I want something else, you know, And so you have
to do that work of understanding. You know, what is
this current soil? Like is this even conducive for what
I want to grow? And then how can I consciously
plant these seeds? And then I have to get to

(35:32):
know these intentions. These intentions need different types of sunlight, water,
love and attention and song, dance or whatever, like it
needs something different, So you have to become different. So
cultivating a life while lived abroad is just that you
gotta get your hands dirty, like it's your life. You
want to get your hands dirty. Should But too often

(35:53):
I think when I talked to a lot of my guests.
You know, they're all black women. They're coming from a
place of burnout. And so when you been working and
hustling and growing something that you don't really want, doesn't
really serve you, doesn't really nourish you. You're like, what,
I gotta grow more things, I gotta I gotta work more,
I gotta do more things. It's like, yeah, but it's

(36:13):
for your benefit. This is your garden, this is your life,
Like this is for you. Um. So you have to
get your hands dirty, and for so many people, that
often includes relationship, right love. You talk a lot about
dating abroad, love abroad, um, And it's interesting. I've compared stories.
I've obviously been in a public relationship that would that

(36:37):
that had that international component. Um. And it was the
first time that my eyes opened to a different way
of living and a different lifestyle and culture. And that
was the first time that I experienced what you talked
about when you said surrender. Right. For the longest, it
was fighting, well, why do y'all do this like this? Well?
Why do y'all eat this? Well? I don't really know
if I like it here, and then one day you say,

(36:58):
screw it, and you sort of ride the ave and
it becomes a really beautiful, interesting, unique experience. UM. Whether
that relationship lasts or not. Um, the way that your
eyes open, that the things that you embrace about a
new way of living stayed with you in a very
permanent way, and I really appreciate that. I'm curious to
know how the experience has been for you. From what

(37:19):
I understand, you met your X out of layover, you
moved to Barcelona for him, um, and now you are
out here dating abroad and internationally just living it up.
Like what's going on? Girl? So much? So much? Actually,
I just did my first speed dating event ever in
my life, like three weeks ago. But we'll talk about that. Yeah,

(37:42):
I met you hosted the same that anything or you
went speed dating, I went, I went to state to
be dating. Okay, three weeks ago, I'll tell you about it.
So my ex, Yeah, I met him on a layover
in Barcelona. UM. I naively have read like an article

(38:02):
that was like, hey, Tinder in Europe is different, you
can make friends, it's all about hookups. And I was like, okay, yeah,
all right, yeah, I because I was going to Milan
and I was like Um. It was during the Classical,
which is a football match between Real Madrid and Barcelona,
and I was like, oh yeah, Spanish football. I want
to like meet some people and just you know, hang out,

(38:25):
and so I put on a tender, turn it on
and I'm like, hey, I'm in town for layover. I
want to watch this soccer match. Who wants to like
host me? Like, let's hang out, let's go to a bar.
And uh, I got crickets because one man is trying
to talk to you during a soccer match, none, especially
an important one. They're like no, girl, I'm with my friends,

(38:45):
Like no, absolutely no. So I was like, oh wow,
I just got complete crickets on this tender. I was like,
all right, when I get something down on Milan and
like live my life after the match, like immediately when
the match was over. My I tend to like blow
is up and like every everything comes in and you know,
it's not different. Actually, tender in Europe is not different.

(39:06):
It's not special. It's like guys who are like, oh,
you want to come to my house and house certain
straight your danger that now when you go to your house. Um.
But my X was one of the guys and he
messaged me he actually had read my profile and demonstrated
that invited me out to like a Cuban jazz club

(39:27):
and like that's all she wrote. We were like together
and that was it. It was very intense and look,
it was not a very healthy relationship. I would admit
that it was for like three years toxic. No, no bueno.
What I can actually say though, which I think is
really important for people to know if they think they're

(39:48):
gonna move abroad and like I don't even love my life,
that's gonna be great. Um, you could, and I'm happy
for you if you do. But I think the thing
is is that you still have to have your same
value use and your same standards abroad. I think for me,
I think I let a lot of things slide because
I was like, well, maybe she's just the way like
Spanish men are like this. Maybe it's just like I

(40:10):
don't understand, it's like a translation difference, like girls not girl.
It's toxic. You keep talking because I might have a
little bit of a traitor moment right now because I'm like, oh,
this is just this is how it happens in your country. Really,
that's what this is. And you just you extend some
grace where men can be men all around the world exactly.

(40:34):
And it wasn't until literally this year when I'm speaking
to my therapist and she was just like, m I
think your ex is a narcissist and like we're like
unpacking it. And I was like, I thought he was
just Spanish no girl, and I was like, oh day.
So honestly, everyone just be aware, like you need to

(40:56):
still have your standards if things don't feel right, don't
just be like I think just the language like no girl,
run run, run away. There's that. But you know, I've
had a lot of guests on my show that talk
about dating abroad, especially as Black women, and I think
it's because, um, I'll say specifically for Black American women.
You know, some women feel like they just don't have

(41:19):
that many options in the United States, like they're not
being chosen. Like I always feel like whenever going to
the shade room and I read the comments, I'm like,
what is this dynamic of dating? It feels very much
like I'm in an alternate reality because I'm like, what
are you guys talking about? Like high value, low value
this and that and who can do whatever. I'm like

(41:40):
that's some nonsense, and you guys have to tap out
of that reality to tap out, like, don't have that conversation,
like it's not global, Like it's a very weird bubble.
So I think a lot of women are tired of that,
and so they want to like come abroad and they're
like I'm in a date and stuff like that. And
I think you can, but I think that you have
to be really mindful. I've had guests on my show

(42:02):
talk about tokenism, exoticism, fetishism, Like in Japan, I had
a guest I talked about, like, yeah, but this guy
on like a reggae concert and I thought it was cool,
but you know, you know, he made it out or whatever.
And then he was like, I want you a girlfriend,
and she she was like, okay, he was cute. She
was like I think I was just like the like, uh,

(42:23):
what is it like the I don't even know because
I don't watch you, like the crown jewel in his
like reggae culture thing. He's like, oh, I have a
black girl. Now the girl she's Jamaican, right, um there, yeah,
there's yes, Jamaican. Yeah, okay, got it, got it. So
he wanted to to wipe her up real quick because

(42:45):
she was to be the queen of this what like
Jamaican social scene that he was a part of in Japan. Yeah. Interesting, right,
and so and then there's always like this interesting like stereotyped, like, oh,
gotta go to Italy. Italian men love black women. I've
been to italyst so many times. It is not like

(43:06):
my favorite country. It just really isn't like that's not um,
and I understand what people are talking about, like Italian
men are quite forward. I don't really like that because
I'm like, I don't know, you get on my face,
don't follow me, don't touch me, no no no, don't
call me no no oh girl, there will yes, yes,

(43:28):
all the things. You're just like, that's interesting. I've had.
I've had some moments in Italy. I enjoyed my time
in Italy. I will say that. Um, I think i've
in my experience the forward men. I found that to
be something that is very much across the board, just
depending on if you're around. You know, douchebags are not
to be quite frank. I get it in the States,

(43:50):
I get in Europe. It really just depends on the man.
But maybe some cultures are more forward than others. I
could probably think of a couple, but interesting. Okay, so
Italy is not your fruit. It's not that. My thing
is like I never want any any woman, especially Black women,
to like go abroad with their hopes of like dating abroad,

(44:13):
like with everything about that. So I'm like, there's so
much to to discover, and what works for one woman
may not work for you, you know what I mean.
You also have to get to know like the culture
and to understand your values and really understand your intention.
Are you looking for marriage? Okay? Well, you know you
may want to be really mindful about where you moved

(44:33):
to because if you move to a certain culture a
certain region, they're like I only marry people within my culture.
So we can date and we have six but I
ain't gonna marry you. And that happens a lot in
the Middle East, and like then you don't want to
move there, right, So I think the thing is about
dating abroad is you definitely have to be really intentional

(44:54):
about what you're looking for, really understand the environment you're
going into, um and not think it's gonna be like
some kind of cure all for for low self esteem?
You know, like, oh, he'll he call me pretty. I'm like, girl,
you've been beautiful. You don't need somebody to validate you,
don't get caught in that, you know, like all these
different types of things. It's it's really really fascinating. And

(45:16):
then obviously for some of my you know listeners, and
I've had guests who are queer, navigating that dating space
abroad is really interesting. Wanted to, you know, make sure
you're safe. But also I've had guests who like, I've
only dated like black people, so this is weird to
go abroad and have to open up my dating parameters

(45:38):
and what does that mean. So it's it's a lot
of different things besides like date or the body flowers.
But it's cute for the people who do want to
you know, experiences who are opening up their minds, their
hearts and saying, you know, I'll give it a go.
They set their intentions. Maybe they're just dating for fun,
maybe they are looking for their future spouse, whatever it is,
they're on board. What are your recommendations for someone to

(46:01):
really hit the ground running in a new country when
it comes to one, safety, when it comes to two,
where to even find these potential suitors. How do we
just get our our our day life popping from day
one when we land. From day one, learn the language,
which means go to language exchanges, go to class, like

(46:23):
join a class because you'll meet the teacher, they'll have
friends the other people in your class. You'll start creating
a community of people that you can, you know, relatively,
go out in a safe kind of environment that are
going to know the language, make better than you that
I'll know certain places, so you start meeting people. That's
the first thing you definitely want to to start learning
the language. And also with like classes and stuff like that,

(46:46):
you'll start understanding culture and like certain norms. And you
can also pick up slim which is like my teacher,
my sspeciter teacher and he's just like, I'm like, no,
tell me about this. What this mean? He's like that
we'll talking about subjunctive Christine, it was all a bird
tenser and I'm like, I know like all the curse words,
so idn't be able to say this? This is this?
Which that's where you pick it up, right, That's how

(47:08):
you know, like, oh, if somebody says this to me
and that's for me. So that's probably the best way
to get started. The next way is to go out
in do things within your interests. I know, like it's
it's simple, but people resisted. And I think because a
lot of people want to be online in the apps,
and the apps are horrible, they're just getting worse. I

(47:31):
feel like it's just getting worse and worse. Did you
ever use meet up? I remember when I was really
traveling internationally, much more often I would peruse the website.
I don't think I ever actually went to one of
the gatherings, but I was always curious about whether or
not these were actually cool opportunities to meet men and women.

(47:51):
Like I was also just looking for friends. But when
I was traveling, sometimes you know, you want to travel
solo and it's nice to be able to pick up
the phone and call an acquaintance you have on the ground.
But I never did any of the meetups. Did you
do those ever? I think CouchSurfing another one. I never
did CouchSurfing because stranger danger for me. I can't do that,
like I did Hostile Life, But that was about as much.

(48:13):
I can't do CouchSurfing. But I did meet up. They
also have like um a Facebook group that's called Girl
Gone International and they have different chapters all around the world.
That has been really cool to like plug in and
you could do that even when you're just traveling to
be like, what's the event going on? Meet ups? You know,
meet some girls, see what's the vibe is. That's been

(48:33):
really great. I did Inner Nations, which is like an
elevated meet up. So for like corporate expats, so depend
on you know, if you want to get your grown
and sexy, go to a concert, an opera or something
like that, or a book club. It's actually really smart
to do because I feel like the people that do
inter Nation, especially the women, they are super international. They've

(48:56):
lived around the world. They got stories to tell about
men and dating and marriage and craziness. So good teath,
good teeth, because they'll be like, husband, yeah, this is
what he did, but that's okay because I took half
of it, and I'll be like, oh, tell me more, right, right, okay.
So I would say inter Nations, Girl Got International, But

(49:18):
get out, go do things that you're interested in, and
you're gonna be afraid, especially if you have like no
concept of the language, like girl I am supposed to
go to a book club and I don't speak Russian, girl,
go out there, go because going on the apps, it's
just I mean, it's so it's like Amazon, and I
feel bad because you'd be like you're just swiping through

(49:41):
the merchandise. You're looking at them, it's like reviews. You're
like no, no, and it's just you're not gonna get
to what you want, which is at least just a
good time. So get out. That is the that's the
thing to do. And I think you should do it
as soon as you hit the ground because what happens,
especially when you move abroad, you have the honeymoon p
period and then I think everyone has like a homesickness

(50:03):
isolation period, especially you don't have the language. So even
if you aren't socially awkward, all of a sudden you
have like your socially awkward. You have social anxiety. You
don't want to go outside. You're like, I'm gonna go outside,
gonna try to talk you know it's Spanish or whatever,
and they're gonna laugh at me. And I don't want
to do with it. Today you can really hibernate and
like not have a good experience, whereas you launch yourself

(50:25):
out there at least you have people who like what'sapp
you'd be like, girl, where have you been? Why you
go on in Spanish class? Like you know that will
help you to stay out and I'll have activities and
you know, if you were in a major city, we'll
probably speak English, like probably, so you'll have that kind
of bridge. But that's the best way to get out
and meet guys or people. You just have to do it.

(50:47):
No asks, I'm not apps. Don't do the app save yourself.
Same that applies in the States, right, It's like everyone
apps dating abroad As a black woman, what's it like?
Like like, if you have to sum it up um
and a few sentences, how can it impact our self worth?

(51:07):
Would you recommend it? Is it good or bad? I'm
assuming it's not one size fits all. I mean, it
definitely isn't one site fits all because black women we
aren't a monolith, right. And what I think was it's
really interesting about dating abroad is that it really is
whatever you make it. And so whatever you what baggage
you take with you from the U. S Or wherever

(51:29):
you're from, you're still gonna have to unpacked that abroad.
What's interesting, though, is that because you're outside of your
cultural context, you aren't around people who will reinforce maybe
some of your toxic nonsense and so your toxic beliefs.
You know, maybe maybe there will be other values that
will actually help you to really actually find a match

(51:53):
for you. For example, when I looked at Barcelona, I
used to like always get befronted by Eastern European women.
I don't know why, but like Romanian, Bulgarian, like everybody's like,
oh yeah, Christine. And what I found is like these
are one brilliant, really amazing, always speak like multiple languages,
like five languages, incredible. But these women would always talk

(52:14):
to me about like the things they see in American culture.
They'd be like, I don't understand why it is seen
as bad or somehow materialistic to want a partner a
man who can provide for you. They're like, this doesn't
make sense. I work, he can't work. Like to require

(52:34):
that in a first date is like crazy. That's the
kind of thing when you have different values, when you're
put in different environments, you're actually able to really assess
what is important to you and what are some of
the things you just co signed because you're just in
the mix. I think also the thing about dating abroad,
especially for black women. I've had a couple of guests

(52:56):
on my show talk about this, is that perhaps dating
a odd it's the only opportunity for them to actually
practice dating, they may not have actually had the opportunity. Specifically,
I had a guest Latrice. She's in Italy. She's now
happily engaged, but she says, you know, she moved to
Italy in her her early forties, I believe, and she

(53:19):
has an NBA. She's in real estate investment. She was
in Chicago, she was doing it, but she was like
nobody was checking for me, Like nobody wanted to date me.
I just America in the state. In the states. In Chicago,
she was like, people are just like, no, you're my friend,
and she was just like okay, um. And she recognized

(53:39):
when she moved to Italy, Yeah, you know, Italian men
can be very flirtatious. Italiman love beauty, so they're gonna
comment on it like yeah, we like that. But she
recognized that she didn't have the skills to date, and
so she needs to actually get those skills. And actually
it's funny because she recently made like a Facebook post
giving a recommendation people who are dating abroad, and this

(54:00):
is what she said, and I'm just gonna say this.
She she she posted, and I was like, I gave
her a side xuse. I was like, I want to
do any of this literally, so like I don't want
to do any of this already I had the resistance,
but she said, okay, go onto your dating app. And
as we discussed before, I'm like, no dating app. She's like,
go on your dating app, go on Tinder, and do

(54:21):
what guys do, which is swipe on everyone, swipe right
on every point. And I was like, that's what you got.
And I was like, oh, I don't think I can
do that. She goes, then we have those matches. Then
obviously the guys with like no photos something very disturbing
immediately in the profile, you're gonna unmatch those. Then all
the guys that you're like, oh he suld already h

(54:42):
You're going to actually hold onto that and you're going
to see who message you first, then from who, how
they message you, how they approach you. You can decide
whether to go on like quick coffee date just to
see to get those kind of reps in or do
some kind of like face time chat. But she's like,
it's important to get to the date as quickly as
possible and get those reps in because then you start

(55:05):
understanding who you are in this dating market, and you
can also start seeing you know, uh, you can't judge
a book by its cover, and maybe perhaps someone that
you would not have swept right on would actually have
you know more of your values. But I think that's
the thing about dating abroad for black women. It's a
combination of being exposed to different values, different social norms

(55:28):
that actually might be an alignment with what you want,
and also actually having practice dating, like having people take
you out and not just want to Netflix and Chilia Dada.
So yeah, I think that's a really great idea. Actually,
I have never thought to just heart heart heart everybody,
but I've heard that guys do that. I've had guys
tell me that they do that, like friends of mine,

(55:49):
and I'm like, yeah, what do you have to lose?
The worst case scenario is you just unmatched the people
you're not interested in. But it really is a great
exercise and maybe opening your mind up to other people.
And I love that she pointed out waiting until the
date to decide if you're you know, cutting a boose
or not, because sometimes things that don't quite translate on
mine or digitally are on these apps. Um, you can

(56:12):
hit a little bit different in person. Maybe he looks
a little short or is technically a little short, but
he's just got big man persona, you know, a little
b d E going on. So the date actually started
to do a second one, I mean, or like he
just brings it and I've had another guest. Her episode
is actually go live in two weeks. Candice. She lives
in Istanbul now, but she was living in Rome and

(56:33):
she was like, she told me this story about one
of the best days she's ever had, and it was
like a first date. Maybe it was a second date.
The guy shut down the entire restaurant. She walked in.
She was like, oh, the restaurants closed. I guess we
have to find somewhere else. He was like, no, it's
just for you, and she was like, uh, what so
that's the thing being open? You might he might be
like I'm sure, but I'm I'm shutting down the restaurant

(56:56):
for you, you know, and that might be what you
can for and preconceived notions when it comes to dating abroad,
particularly you know, like Producers, Star has had something like
this happened to her in Paris, where she was assumed
to be a sex worker while traveling like they're on
more than one occasion, this has happened in Paris and

(57:17):
in Germany for her. Have you dealt with experiences like that?
I have any of your your listeners or people that
you're friends with, has similar um misunderstandings or preconceived notions
projected onto them. Yes. I think every woman that I've
ever spoken to black woman who has lived in Spain
has a story about being mistaken as a prostitute. Now,

(57:41):
I don't think has anything to do with dating. It's
not like you're you know, you're on tender. You can
get up someone and they're like, oh, I'm paying you
for this. It's not that it's usually or all the
stories I've heard is just black women mining our black business.
You know, the grocery store, reading a book, at a
at a park, walking around an old men, old Spanish

(58:02):
man being like, hey, do you want to take a walk,
and being like wait what no, what? Or in my case,
I was literally I was in a park, I was
in Barcelona in a park. I was reading a book.
It was a beautiful spring day. It was just one
of those days to be like, wow, I live in Spain.
This is great. I sit down on the bench. I'm
reading this book. This old man with a walker and

(58:23):
I wish I was lying. I'm not, but with a
walker like scoots over come sits down, and I was
just like, oh, because's cute. Oh man, I'm in spade
and he starts talking to me and I'm like, okay,
let's back to some Spanish. And he is fine at first,
but then he's like, oh, why don't you come and
sit on my lap? Like do what do you understand?

(58:44):
Do I understand in the Santa Claus exactly. He's like, oh, well,
what'd you give me a kiss? And I was like,
oh no, and he was like, well, I have something
for you, and I was like, sir, I do not
want to like do some elderly abuse. So I'm gonna
walk away, but like absolutely not. And that is a
definitely a fear right, and it kind of you can

(59:07):
sometimes get conflated. I feel there's this notion of blackham
Goldbroad You're the exotic, you know one, and I'm like
I'm always little good. I have some trepidation about it
because it's like, Okay, yeah, you're exotic, I'm different. There's
not a lot of people look like me walking around
with Spain. Yeah, but I definitely don't want to be
fetish sized, and I'm definitely on a sex worker. And

(59:30):
even if I was, there's like certain times and days
and and locations, like it's not all the time, not
at the museum on a Tuesday afternoon, So like, what
what makes you think exactly? And you know I'm an entrepreneur.
So I'm also like, why do you even think like
I would be even in your price bracket? Sir? Absolutely?

(59:51):
Not like absolutely, she said, the rate is high. It
is high, sir. So it has happened. It's not think
that happens often. It's happened to me three times in
the time in the time that I've lived here in Spain,
even actually even before when I was walking to Commune Santiago.

(01:00:11):
I had a weird experience. But doesn't happen every every day,
every year, every month. Um, most people don't assume I'm
a sex worker, and they think I'm a student because
I walk around in kids most of the time and
they're like, you're an adult. Yeah, yes, I can't confirmed. Um,
I know we talked a little bit about apps. You
are not a big fan of the apps for those

(01:00:32):
movies or living abroad, but for the babes who might
be on vacation, for you know, anybody who's landing. He
just wants to have a little fun and needs to
get to it as quickly as possible. Um, what apps
would you recommend or what apps just are there? You
know there are Spanish jading apps um Han's UK bumble okay,
cubid like sort of breakdown the vibe that we might
find on any given one of these apps. Okay, So

(01:00:54):
it deadly depends on where you are in the world.
But I'll say from my point of view being in Valencia, Spain,
Hinge is very much like the UK blokes. The lads
are like all up on there. I think it's because
of the location, very close to Alicante and very close
to beneath RM which is a big like British hot spot. Um.

(01:01:16):
And then also there are definitely a lot of Germans
because the Germans like the vacation in the Belliard Island.
So I'm like, in this interesting radius of men. So
that's what I'm saying. Hinge is like more about like
the British lads. For me, that's what I've I've picked
up on Bumble. It's definitely the guys that are, you know,
well educated, very cute, usually taller, good jobs. That's the

(01:01:42):
ones on bumble Bubbles. Where is that? I tried. I tried,
you know, okay Cupid and Hinge and even Tender, and
it was like it was night and day. I was like, oh,
this is what all the fine men are. They're on Fumble. Yeah,
So for Spade, we're looking for, you know, somebody who's
just look a little rugged, little be like. Yeah, I

(01:02:04):
would say Bubble, Okay, Cupid is interesting because I feel like, um,
that is the alternative app like all the alternative lifestyle.
If you're looking to be a unicorn, a plus one,
if you're looking for something else that's quote unquote alternative,
I would say, okay Cupid because that is where everybody

(01:02:25):
is open and honest and free, so you can just
be yourself. For Short and Tender, I think Tinder is
still kind of a good like it's the I don't know,
it's a it's a standard because there's just so many
people on that app, so your odds up getting so
that's high for sure. All right, okay, UM. You know

(01:02:48):
we've talked a lot about what it's like to date
or explore abroad romantically in Europe. I'm curious to know
how that compares to dating in African countries. You know,
some people might think it would be a little bit easier,
perhaps because potentially your partner is also black. It's more
likely than not that that that is the case. Um.

(01:03:09):
But I have a few friends who are married to
Caribbean and West African people, and they've mentioned in the
past that they've had plenty of cultural differences to deal with,
which makes total sense to me. So I'm curious to know, Um,
have you had any experience dating African men while abroad? Um?
And what was that like for you where the cultural
difference is huge, where they very small and minute. Did

(01:03:30):
you like it more or less compared to dating others
people of other nationalities. I having dated seriously African men abroad,
I've gone a couple of coffee ags and things like that.
I do have a couple of stories from some of
my guests that have that are currently based on the continent.
And what I can say is that once again, like

(01:03:50):
blackness is not monolithic, and I think people really understand that,
especially Black Americans or anyone else from a diaspar when
they go to the continent, it is not all saying
and it's not this is not I think with deity,
you have to be really careful, um about how you
approach it, because there are cultural norms that if you

(01:04:14):
may be forward, you might be like, well, I'm gonna
do the choosing, but that might put you in a
whole different category for dating that might not be like
serious dating. Another thing is that you know, I've had
a guest yasmine, and she's in Sierra Leone and she says,
there's this I'm gonna mess it up. But there's this
creole phrase, Uh, wean a mate. It's called bonna mates

(01:04:37):
and basically means we all date everybody. Okay. Sierra Leone
is a very religious country. Uh it's Christian or Muslim like,
that's what it is. But there is a culture of
h she says, entanglements, um. But it's a culture of
people are open in their relationships, even if they're not

(01:04:58):
calling it open. It's not like how we think of
it in the West. Um, so you can be married
or people are in you know, committed relationships and they
are dating and sleeping with other people all the time,
and you have to be very cautious or be very
maybe explicit, be like are you available? Are you married?

(01:05:18):
Is this somebody think they're married to you? Sir? Did
you say that question right? Does someone else think they're
married to you? Because they'll say no, what I heard me,
I don't got nothing to do with their whole married
spouse who absolutely acknowledged the relationship exactly. See, they really
explicit because she's had several you know situations where she
was like, are you married? He's like yeah, and and

(01:05:41):
she's like okay, no, no, thank you no. Also because yes,
mean was raised in the West. Uh and she went
to Sierra Leone. Um, there is like resistance or or
a little bit of friction sometimes between cultures because she's
not only well educated, but there is this sense of independence.

(01:06:02):
She has her own business in Sierra Leone, she has
her own foundation, she has her own car, she has
this things. She discuss her own stuff, and so men
may feel like, what do you need me for it?
And she's like well, I am about to tell you.
If you would be open and available and honest with me,
I'll tell you what I can do for it. Right.
So there are so many different kind of dynamics you

(01:06:22):
have to be careful for. So the thing is just
like this before. Blackness isn't monolithic, and just because we
all black doesn't mean that we all get along. Right.
Colorism is a big thing. Socio economic status is a
big thing. Depending on what country you are in. Uh, language,
religion and tribe, like all these things are really important

(01:06:47):
to consider. I also have had a guest uh Halena.
She went to Togo when she was about like for
Peace Corps, met a Togalese man, got married aid and
was this love. They went back to the United States
and he was just like nah nah because he was

(01:07:08):
on her like her church, and so the dynamic changed.
He wasn't he wasn't like fluent in English, and she
was one the one had to teach him everything and
show him everything and culturally and he was like, no, no,
I teach you. I am then I teach you. And
it was really hard for him to adjust to that

(01:07:28):
kind of dynamic, and you know, it didn't work out.
So there's a lot of things to think about, you know,
when you're dating abroad, um and culturally, there's so many
different things to to consider gender roles in regardss of
how sense of people might feel about gender roles and
things like that. It's true like you have some type

(01:07:49):
of role. Maybe it's not facing gender in your relationship.
You got some kind of expectation and you need to
make sure that's in alignment and understand like that's going
to work. And then briefly just to kind of up
Africa is like, actually just had another guest season two
episode too, Nafisa. She's a diplomat, author extraordinaire, super awesome. Um.

(01:08:11):
She met her husband, who's most embecon in India, and
when they moved back to Mozambique for a brief a
period of time, his family was like, why did you
do this? Why did you do that? They were so there,
like she's black, so why don't you do all the
things that we do? And she's like, but I'm not
from Mozambique. And she even said on the show, she
was like, it would be better if I was just white,

(01:08:32):
because then y'all want to expect me to do any
of this stuff. But because I'm black, You're like, whyching
this is? And she was like, because I'm not from here,
I'm not from here, and I'm not gonna necessarily assimilate. Right,
So there's so many different dynamics to consider when dating,
and don't just like kind of broad brush it to
be like we're all black, it's gonna be fine. I'm like,

(01:08:52):
it's it's a little more complex than that, oh much
more complex absolutely. Um For those who are traveling abroad
who might be wanting to step into the language game
the way that they're currently unfamiliar, are there any apps
um or resources that you recommend, like translation apps? We
I love ninety Defiance. I've been watching for years and

(01:09:13):
years since before it became this like crazy popular, like
zeitgeist moment um, and we see often right like they
play it up. The couples there are sometimes a little extreme,
but it's like they barely speak each other's languages and
they're on the translation I'm going back and forth and
you're thinking to yourself, how is this even a functioning relationship?
Do they even know who they're with? Because they don't

(01:09:35):
seem to be able to communicate at all. Uh So,
what have you used in the past to get your
point across to someone who maybe doesn't speak your language
or vice versa. So well, a lot of smiling and minding,
that's what I've used. Smiling mind, went in doubt, smiling
mind and make billy big gestures of people, just like okay, sure,

(01:09:56):
um no, I evilize Google Translate all the time. Definitely
get that on offline mode. I think it's excellent now
if you want to learn a language. There's so many
different ways to learn a language, if you want to
do that, and before you go and I think actually,
if you're going on vacation, if you're just like I'm
gonna be there for a month or whatever abroad, I

(01:10:17):
think it actually does so much for your confidence, especially
if you want to date, to just pick up some classes,
whether it be on some kind of like babble or
prepperly or do a lingo. Um, there's a lot of
like video kind of apps and they're from people all
around the world. To the price point could be like

(01:10:38):
ten dollars an hour to an hour, maybe even less
than ten dollars an hour. So I think that actually
is really important to sit down get some kind of
like basic language and actually give your teacher like the
like the topic that you want to talk about. You like,
I'm gonna go abroad, I'm gonna date. They're gonna think
it's hilarious. They're gonna stop laughing, and they're gonna help you. Right,

(01:10:59):
They're gonna be like, okay, because what you say, they
say this that's really rude, that's really forward. That's actually
a really great way to learn the language, not just
like the alphabet, but actually learning the context like that.
You're gonna be in and say I want to be
able to be flirty or I want to be able
to be witty in this way, how would I say
this thing? Right? I think that would be really great.

(01:11:22):
But as we talked about before, I say, when you're
on the ground, you land, you're gonna be scrolling through
tender and things like that, find a language exchange. They're
usually in most major cities and just go. And they're
usually at bars or cafes. So even if it's a
total dud, you'll be out go and just be like,
let's see what happens. That's the breast way I think. Obviously,

(01:11:46):
you know people are out on the dating game. That's
one thing you're single and mingling sometimes I if I
love sometimes you actually do, UM take it to the
next level with whoever you're dating, and then you have
this interesting combining of two word worlds, and it can
make for a lot of interesting and fun conversation and experience,
and it can also make for a lot of miscommunication.

(01:12:08):
You know. It's it's hard enough to get on the
page the same page with someone when you're both of
the same mind and culture and maybe community. You add
you know, the intersection of another language, another lifestyle, of
potentially different religions. UM, family that doesn't speak the language.
You know. I've experienced that where it's like, Wow, I

(01:12:29):
want to bond with my potential in laws, but I
literally can't talk to them. You know. So what do
you recommend people consider think about or how can we
best navigate intercultural relationships? Any advice for making it work?
The first thing, this is probably not gonna be very helpful,
is like, if you can fall in love with somebody

(01:12:51):
who is also international, so they can give a different
culture and religion all those things, but they've also lived
somewhere else, or try appled, because I think that's going
to help the relationship it's weird or hard. Would say,
it's hard to have that kind of grace or have
your partner extend you that grace if they don't recognize

(01:13:11):
that your foreigner, like this is hard on many different levels,
not just language, like you know, like emotionally and mentally,
like there's so many the layers. And then you'd be like,
all right, well you're in class, so like get on
with it, like it's not a big deal. I think
that's the number one. You need to have somebody who
gets it, who's been afraid, it's been an insecure who
who's been a fish out of you know, water. That

(01:13:33):
I think helps because I think for a lot of
the relationships that I've seen friends, when one of the
partners hasn't really gone anyplace, they don't really have the compassion.
It's not that they don't want to, but they just
don't get it, and that's a huge rift in the relationship.
I think another thing is is that it's just important

(01:13:54):
to be as intentional as possible in that relationship and
to be at and try to communicate as much as possible. Now,
Like I know that in my past relationship, my ex
is from Spanish, he's from sevilla um, and so when
I would get upset, I wouldn't speak like proper you know,
North American English, you get like real southern and twiny,

(01:14:18):
you know, throwing in some different kind of you know,
He's like, wait, nobody ever told me this thing? What's
she talking about? Exactly? And so if you'd like, wait what,
and you're like, I've just been given this moment of
grace where I'm gonna repeat my smart stuff that i
just was spitting at him, or I'm gonna take a
beat and I'm gonna communicate in an adult manner. And

(01:14:39):
that's also the thing is being like, let me like
take it down and like actually speak to you and
not say all these crazy things to you better from Atlanta,
you know what I mean. I think that is the
biggest thing, having that kind of patience with one another.
But also, you know, in laws can always be kind
of difficult if you especially if you don't speak the language,

(01:14:59):
and if they really have no concept of anything outside
their own culture. Because unfortunately, I think, you know, media
has done such a great job really perpetuating certain images
of black women. I mean, even like American white women.
I used to hear all these crazy things, Like Italian
guys would say they're like stroety girls, They're you know,

(01:15:22):
the sweety block girls, They're like really easy, and I'd
be like, excuse. So they may only have a certain
idea of you or whatever they think of you from media,
and that could be really difficult as well. So I
think communication and patients as much as possible really great advice.
If people are interested in learning more about your journey UM,

(01:15:44):
are interested in maybe working with you, having conversations with you,
or just sort of diving into um the world of
expat living. What are some resources that people can check out?
What services do you offer? If you offer services so
people can begin to needs of their own. Yeah, I
have a really great guide called living around with Intention,

(01:16:06):
and I also have a course of the same name.
You can check it out at flourish sliporn dot com.
And I also have business Strategists. I help black women
and women of color leverage to talents and their expertise
into viable and sustainable businesses. So if you're interested in
starting your entrepreneurial journey abroad or to go abroad, you
can also check out that guide at floursh sliporn dot com.

(01:16:27):
As well, I love it. Christine. Oh my god, I
can talk to you for so much longer. It is
killing me and I have to go to the studio
now the TV studio. But this was such a pleasure. Um,
I'm actually going to be in Europe in gosh to
three weeks. I'm gonna be hopping around and kind of
solo traveling for the first time ever that so I'm
really excited about that. So I'm gonna have to pick

(01:16:48):
your brain get sometimes we'll have to offline about it. Hope,
really hit me up. We'll do. Thank you so much, Christine.
You guys check her out on Instagram. Check out her
services one more time. The name of the podcast Larry
in the Foreign Thank you so much. It was great
talking to you today. Thank you, happy best. Such a

(01:17:08):
fun combo. Christine, thank you, thank you, thank you again
for joining me on the podcast. We're excited to dig
into more love and relationships. Um. We're focusing more on
the love, the relationships and dating of it all in
coming months because you all have really responded to that content.
You said you want more of it. You have so
many questions, a lot of asked Zuri, a lot of
bringing in therapists and experts UH to navigate the world

(01:17:32):
of relationship because it's so much more than just the
love and the dating, right It's interpersonal relationships between parents
and child, brothers and sisters, of friends, colleagues, And that's
the stuff that I'm most passionate and curious about. I
always have been. UM, so I'm excited to give you
more of what you want and more of what I'm
interested in. If you have a story to share, you

(01:17:52):
can hit us up at Hello at hot happy mess
dot com or sliding the d M s on Instagram.
I cannot wait to hear from you, and before I leave,
I just want to close it out with a listener review.
Kirsten One says, appreciate the realness. Keep it up. I
look forward to listening and need authentic topics like what
you discuss in your podcast. I replace certain episodes that
resonate with me. I love to hear that. Thank you

(01:18:14):
so much for listening and supporting, and thank you for
the review. UM. This is the easiest way that you
listening can support the podcast. It's free, it's easy, it's
so fast. UM hit us with a five star rating
and a couple of sentences about what you love most
about the podcast. Um, so thank you again to Kirsten
for the review. If you haven't leave one now, I

(01:18:35):
love that so much and I will be back next
week with another episode. Every Wednesday, we're back at it again.
Don't forget to tell a friend, share it, send this
episode to anyone you think you might want to listen,
And in the meantime, you can keep up with me
on Instagram at Zuri Hall z U r I h
l L and at Hot Happy Mess. I'll talk to

(01:18:57):
you next week. Bye. By the

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