Recovering from Trauma with Kobe Campbell

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hot Happy Mess. Celebrate your magic in the middle of
life's messages. Happy Mess. I'm Zeri Hall and this is
Hot Happy Made. Oh SHOOTE. What's up y'all? Welcome to
another episode of Hot Happy Mess. I am your host,

(00:28):
Zuri Hall, and I am very much looking forward to
the next conversation. You know, we are all about doing
the work here on the podcast, digging into how and
why we are the way we are and also what
we can do about it right, what is within our
power our control to change or understand and oftentimes just accept,

(00:48):
which can often be the hardest thing to do. So
you're really gonna love our next guest Today, I'm joined
by Kobe Campbell. She is a licensed trauma therapist, author,
wellness advocate, podcaster, and mother who doing it all and
making it look good. She's releasing her debut book, Why
Am I Like This? How to Break Cycles, heal from

(01:09):
trauma and Restore your Faith. It's drop in April fourth,
And before I get into all the nitty gritty of
what we can expect with this book, how it's going
to help change your life. Hi, Kobe, how you doing good?
I'm good exciting to talk with you today. Saying to
jump into all the things, all of the things. I've
got to let everyone know Kobe is low key out

(01:32):
here okay. On TikTok, She's got over one hundred thousand followers.
Several of her videos and the sounds have gone viral,
including a viral video you may have seen where she
describes that healing is not becoming the best version of yourself,
but letting the worst version of yourself be loved. I love, love,
love that you also share gems about health and wellness

(01:54):
and healing on your podcast. Talk to me about that
viral moment just for a second. What do you think
it was that resonated most with people about accepting the
worst version of yourself or letting that version be loved
instead of trying to just become your best self. Oh
my goodness, I think, without even realizing that we had
language for it, a lot of us know that the

(02:17):
version of healing that we have been told and taught
in many ways requires us to do the very things
to ourselves that were done to us that traumatized us
right like. It was rejection and abandonment and shame that
made us feel like we weren't worthy of good things.
In our lives, and then we're kind of taught to

(02:38):
turn around and reject a version of ourselves. Kill off
this version of yourself, you know, push away this version
of yourself, and like, how can you come to a
place of true wellness by perpetuating the same heartful things
to yourself that you're healing from when other people did
it to you? You know? And so I think that
resonated with people because they were like, I know, wasn't

(03:00):
like the best version of myself, but I still love
myself at that time, Like two things can be true.
I was struggling and I was doing the best I could.
And what if I got to see myself through the
lens of I was doing the best I could instead
of this version of me doesn't deserve space or time
or to be seen and loved. Right. I think it's

(03:22):
so hard sometimes for us to extend grace to ourselves. Right.
It's like the same way that we show up for
love and try to unconditionally accept the people closest to
us in our lives, whether it's our children, our partner,
a best friend. It's so hard for us sometimes to
offer that same energy to ourselves, to say no, I

(03:43):
am worthy of this love and acceptance and celebration as
I am if another thing never changed about me? Absolutely,
And I think it's because sometimes we conflate acceptance with laziness,
like it's like you're accepting yourself, Like, no, you need
to be working, you need to be developing, you need
to be growing. But sometimes the development has just been

(04:03):
reflecting and saying, I see why I did that, see
why I was here, instead of how can I move
from point A to point B? Yeah? Yeah, I love
that and I'm excited to talk more about it before
we get into the thick of your new book that's
coming out, why you wrote it, and what you hope
people take away. Let's just get to know Kobe a
little bit more. So, first of all, tell me everything,

(04:26):
tell me all of the things we are talking to you.
You were in Charlotte, North Carolina, right, yes, okay, tell
me a little bit about your background, how you got
into this work, what you love, what are you doing
for fun? Yes? So, yes, I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina.
You know, you know when you meet people and they're like,
share your name, where you're from in a fun fact?
So my fun fact is that I'm a twin, and

(04:48):
I have the same first name as my twin sister.
My family's from Ghana, West Africa and the tribe my
parents are from. Your first name is based on the
day you were born, and since we're twins, we have
the same first name, which is so Kobe is actually
my middle name. Oh okay, Oh, so that's how you
switched it up by your twin sister. Yeah, that's what

(05:09):
we had to because it was very confusing. When we
were born. They literally gave us the same social Security
number because they were just like someone submitted the same
thing twice. That Yeah, so, yeah is my first name,
which means born on Thursday, and Cobe means princess. Okay,
basking that as much as I possibly get. Yes, girls,
suck it up. Let the people know. And my husband's

(05:33):
a twin. Two Oh my goodness, Yeah, yeah, my husband's
a twin. We both have lots of twins that run
in our families, and we haven't had any twins. My
body could take that, y'all. Y'all may not have seen
it if you're listening, but she just crossed her fingers
as if to imply that she is not trying to
manifest twins. Oh not at all. Not okay, it's a no. Yeah.

(05:56):
I mean I'm a really I love the work I do,
and I love I tell people I'm a trauma therapist,
but I don't feel like my calling is to help
people heal from trauma. My calling is to help people
live lives that they love, and trauma is the tool,
like dealing with trauma, working through trauma is the tool
that God's given me to help people get to the

(06:17):
goal of living the lives they love. So many of
us have just a clear vision of like who we
want to be on the inside, but for some reason
it just can't come out. There's just so many invisible barriers.
And my job is to help people work through process
scale those invisible barriers. And I started doing this work
because I struggled with my own depression, my own anxiety,

(06:40):
and I was just kind of like, I know that
the intangible things that people have said to me really
wounded me. But everything around they told me they're just words,
but something didn't feel like just words, Like the way
it affected me was more than that. And so I, like,
you know, had a really hard moment it I share
it in the book in twenty thirteen, I was in college,

(07:03):
had a suicide attempt and had just like this miraculous
moment where God was just like, no, you're going to
live and you have a purpose for your life. And
that was the moment for me that woke me up,
that shook me up, like, oh my gosh, there's something
out there, there's a god out there who sees me,
and maybe life is not just a cycle of being

(07:24):
rejected and then begging for love and then being rejected again,
you know. And for me, I see that, and so
many of the people I serve, and I see that
like the sense that feeling of rock bottom, that feeling
of it cannot get better. How can I move forward
when I can't forget this? How will I ever not

(07:45):
be affected by the things that they did to me
or said to me? And I felt that I lived that.
I felt there wasn't a world in which I could
be free of my past pain until I went to therapy.
Until I saw, you know, someone who cared about me,
someone who's impartial, someone who had professional wisdom to impart

(08:06):
to my life. And I was like, oh yeah, I
want to do this, and I want to do this
for people who look with me. There are so many
people who can you know, relate to and see and
feel and hear some of their own stories and what
you've been vulnerable and brave enough to share, right and
you know, particularly working in news and in media, it's

(08:28):
heartbreaking the alarming rate at which we're reporting on these
tragic stories, these beautiful young lives lost, you know, taken
in these moments when you really feel like the only
course of action for you is is suicide, is to

(08:49):
end your life, you know, And you know, particularly as
those conversations start to come out and to the public
discourse more and the stigma starts to be removed or
at least encouraged to be removed, I'm curious to know
how do you feel about that? Knowing how personally you've

(09:09):
been affected by struggles with depression and anxiety, what do
you think about sort of the current culture. We know
that particularly young people gen z and younger, are struggling
with depression and anxiety at alarming rates. What is your
perspective on that as a licensed professional and also as

(09:30):
a human soul who has dealt with those same feelings. Absolutely,
that's a fantastic question, you know. I said this to
a friend the other day, the pandemic was like an
earthquake the side in a place that like was near
a body of water. And if you know anything about
like whether if there's an earthquake near a body of water,

(09:54):
tsunami is coming and you may not see it until
it just appears, until it's fair right, And I think
that the pandemic in many ways was their earthquake. Yeah,
we're their problems, absolutely, but I think that the pandemic
exposed those problems. And now, like the truth of what
many of us have been carrying is just like rising

(10:16):
to the surface. And as a clinician, it's heartbreaking, it's
really heartbreaking. And I think that's why resources like my book.
I think that's why platforms like yours matter, because you know,
the work of suicide prevention doesn't start when someone says
I don't want to live. It starts with that person's

(10:37):
very life, their humanity, with their mourning, with how people
speak to them, with how people respond when they're in
distress or experiencing sadness, how people respond to the mistakes
that they make. And I like to remind people that suicide,
suicide audiation doesn't just come out of like I'm so overwhelmed.
I you know, I want to take my life. But

(11:01):
it really does start with these little chips, these little
like moments that just kind of chip away at your soul.
And also, suicidal ideation is deeply tied to fatigue. We're tired.
A lot of people are just tired, tired of the performance,
tired of the expectations, tired of the hustle, tired of

(11:22):
the hurt and the pain, the rejection. And I feel
that I know that you know, on a human level,
on a heart level, and I'm simultaneously grateful that people
are starting to speak up. But we have to start
caring about people before their entire situations. We have to
start caring about ourselves before it's a life or death moment,

(11:43):
because the everyday moments that we gloss over our life
or death moments, those are seeds of life or death moments.
And so for me, for the people who feel like
life is hopeless and nothing can change, there's something so
powerful about getting connected to other people. Like when you
break down the word in courage, it literally means to

(12:04):
impute into infuse courage. That means you have to be
connected to another person. That means you have to be
connected to someone who has a different perspective. And in
the middle of my stuff, there was no other perspective
other than my pain until someone else came in and
was like, there's more. And I hope that this podcast,

(12:25):
for whoever's listening, is that voice saying like, there's more
and joy is possible. Yeah, you saying that we gloss
over the everyday life moments and those are the life
or death moments. It hits so hard. It's so true, right,
you know, I think about this often. It's so easy,
and I've said it publicly and particularly around the time

(12:49):
when the public conversation picked up with Twitches passing, and
you know, everyone had an opinion and a perspective. But
what I what was on my heart to get across was,
you know, we always say, oh, call this number if
you if you need help, Oh, just reach out to
a friend, like people will listen. Advocate for yourself at work,

(13:10):
go to your boss and tell them you're struggling with
this issue or whatever. But until there are systems in place,
and I'm talking at an infrastructural level where people feel
safe in the day to day of their lives, right
that I want to feel safe Monday through Friday, Saturday
through Sunday. Showing up in these places, these systems, particularly

(13:33):
in corporate and work environments, also where I can trust
that if I show up in a moment of vulnerability
or pain or fear about what I might even do
to myself or how I'm feeling, that I'm safe, that
I'm protected, that I'm supported. It's one thing to say
we're quote unquote here for you, to kind of give

(13:53):
the spiel that we're all supposed to give each other.
It's another thing to actually actively show up. And I
think a lot of us, you know, in certain moments,
myself included in the past, have struggled to figure out
how to show up for the people that we care
about and love in a way that actually supports them

(14:14):
and also feels appropriate and possible for us and sustainable
and sustainable. What do you recommend when it comes to
showing up for one another in the everyday life moments
instead of glossing over them? So great question. I feel

(14:38):
tempted to say, you know, ask for what they need,
and you know, I feel tempted to just give the
surface interview answer. But like I think one of the
hardest things about healing and being connected to other people.
And they're broken seasons, and they're hard seasons where they're
processing of trauma. Their pain is like truly loving yourself

(14:59):
and love other people in their hard moments. It's going
to require you to restructure your life. You cannot live
the American dream and live well. You have to choose
oooh ooh, wait, say that one more time, because I
just got a whole show. You cannot live the American
dream and live well. And what do you mean by that? Yeah?

(15:21):
I think so many people want to scale the corporate ladder.
They want to get the thirty under thirty. They want
to get all these things. They want to get all
these things that require fast paced life, that require deep
sacrifice of time, that require disregard for everyday bodily needs
like rest, hydration, time of silence, Like all the things

(15:43):
that we glorify in our culture requires us to betray ourselves.
You're like, it's a real thing that, like we cannot
work nine to fives, do extracurriculars regarding our jobs, show
up at all of our kids, game support all of
our friends, get eight to ten hours of sleep, eat

(16:04):
healthily three times a day, like it's just not possible,
you know. And I think that like a lot of
us are trying to figure out how to support other
people when we can barely support ourselves. And that's when
that resentment comes in. When we start to offer people
something of ourselves that we haven't even received from ourselves,
we start to be annoyed with their pain, frustrated with

(16:27):
their progress, like irritable that it's not moving faster, why
aren't you over this? Why aren't you getting over this?
Why aren't you doing this? And the truth is, like
the frustration that we are projecting on them, it's really
a frustration that is rooted in the inability for us
to give ourselves what we need. And so when we
are trying to meet someone else's need, we feel frustrated

(16:50):
at them because we're like, I don't even get this,
and I'm giving this to you, right, Like my husband
and I have this idea, this system infrastructure in which
we've built our lives. We are first individually filled up.
After we are both individually filled up, the overflow goes

(17:10):
to our marriage. When our marriage is filled up, the
overflow goes to our kid and our kids in our household,
once our kids are filled up, the overflow goes to
the rest of the world. And a lot of us
have like we have like a couple drops in our
personal cup and then we're pouring like two of the
four drops into a relationship and then it's like everything

(17:32):
has just a little bit, and so when crisis hits,
there's no part of our lives that can sustain such
a demand. Right right, Oh, you are pre ching right now.
I mean when you said you know that there can
be frustration around someone else's sadness or fears because there's resentment,

(17:54):
right because you feel like, well, my cup is empty too,
and I'm over here trying to fill you up with
my non existent you know, liquidity, whatever you want to
call it. And I'll be honest, I've felt that too,
and I think a lot of people can relate to it,
and for you to give a voice to that is real,

(18:17):
because I think there can be shame. I've felt shame
around my own resentment for having to continually show up
for someone in a moment when I really didn't have
an end me to show up for them, and I
didn't even understand at the time. I have, through reflection
and therapy and all of the things, and you articulating

(18:39):
it so beautifully that the resentment came from not me
wanting to not wanting to love them, not me not
wanting to show up for them. It was not loving
and showing up for myself in that chapter, and yet
still being expected to be this all encompassing savior to
someone else when I hadn't even saved myself. Yep. Absolutely,

(19:02):
And so we have to, like, if we are deeply
committed to wellness, wellness that allows people to live and
have a will to live, a will to like look
at the future and see good things instead of more exhaustion.
Like you're right. It is a societal structural thing, and

(19:22):
in many ways we get to contribute to that through
things like voting and advocate advocacy, all those things, But like,
on a micro level, it starts with us structuring our
lives enough that we are well that I'm okay, having
to say, like, I have time to do this, but
I will not do that because that is not what's

(19:44):
going to help me be well in the future. Having
to say no to certain things or yes to certain things.
Deciding that therapies are non negotiable, deciding that spending time
with certain people is non negotiable to like setting those
bounds injuries. And you know, I was telling a client
the other day, boundaries never start with limits. Boundaries start

(20:05):
with needs, establishing what needs need to be met, and
then setting the limits of the ways that we can
protect the environment in which those needs can get met. Right,
And so, you know, I think a lot of us
were tired. We are tired, exhausted. Yeah, now we're tired.

(20:30):
And it's especially those of us who are constantly serving
people in our work, you know. And it's like, you know,
it's it's easy to be like, oh, this is just
a podcast, but like, no one sees all the people
we had to serve before we got on these mice.
No one sees how much of ourselves we literally contractually
have to give to other people day in and day out.

(20:53):
And we're tired, you know, and we deserve rest. We
all deserve rest, serve to not have more burdens put
on us, but more peace offered to us. You know
that sentiment. That's exactly why I created this podcast, right,
a decade of just go go, going, hustle, hustle, hustling,

(21:14):
giving what I had to give but being exhausted and
resentful and burnt out about all of it. It was
just like this idea of best life burnout that I
started calling it, because it's like we'd all been conditioned
to chase our best life, chase our best life, chase, chase, chase,
and we're just over it. We're all, I think collectively
the zeitgeist is even moving in the opposite direction of

(21:36):
rest and play and just being still because we are,
to your point, tired. What I really appreciated hearing you
say just now was you know boundaries, right. So many
people think of it as restraint and limiting and pushing
down and fence is going up and you can't cross

(21:57):
my boundary. Boundary boundaries, But I love that you say
that it comes from a place of need, of just
acknowledging what you need first and then creating the systems
that allow those needs to be catered to and prioritized.
When you mentioned that, I don't know hierarchy is the word,
but that flow chart for your family dynamic, right, and

(22:21):
you needing to first and then it going to your
spouse and then the children. I'm curious to know how
intentional I assume it was intentional. So how intentional were
those conversations? Was it always like that? And what had
to happen to make it change? If not, because there
are a lot of people listening right now, probably side

(22:42):
eyeing their husband or their wife or their partners, their kids,
like taking notes, are ready to figure out how to
instate that in their own lives. How was that for you?
Oh my goodness. I think we got to that place
when my husband really we knew something had to change.
We've been having conversations for a couple of months to
like something as a change, like we're just tired, we're exhausted,

(23:03):
were burnt out all the things, and you know, he
had been thinking about it, and we were like, what
is the core problem that we're constantly dealing with? And
the core problem was we were giving to other people
what we hadn't yet given to ourselves. That was true
of our relationship together, like we were like pouring out
as a couple, but then also individually, like I was

(23:26):
pouring into him what I hadn't given to myself, and
he was pouring into me what he hadn't given to himself.
So it was like this like system of clear desire
for generosity but not in order, not in a way
that was ordered for peace, and not in a way
that resisted resentment. You know, it was it was real

(23:48):
easy to be like, I just took out the dishes,
so can you put well, I put this kid down yesterday.
Can you do this one? Well, I have to go
to this meeting and I have to and just being
clear to say like, hey, this is what I need today,
this is what I can offer you today because I
need to take time to do this and him being
able to do the same thing, And it changed the

(24:11):
game in my life because it also made me a
priority in my life and not other people's feelings and
expectations of what I should do with my life. You know,
it's really easy to slide, like it's a slippery slope
from service to like enslavement, right, and then all of

(24:39):
a sudden, everything you do is filtered through what would
they think? What would they feel? Will they be upset? Right? Right?
So we like kind of just like took those barriers
and we were like, okay, like everything before we're doing
anything out there, we got to make sure that we
are overflowing, not just like oh it's suffici shit, I

(25:00):
mean filled to the brim, and we have more than
enough overflowing, as in, when other people get it, we're
still filled up. Mmmmmmm okay, So that is that is
an important sort of distinction to make right. Not just
feels enough to share and have less of a cup
for yourself, but to be so overflowing in it that

(25:24):
even after we give some of it away, we are
still filled to the brim. Yeah, I've never I don't
think I've ever thought about it like that, honestly until
this moment and our kids. Mmm. You know, like I
shared this on TikTok, like I don't make my son's
share if it's his toy, if it's history, if it's

(25:53):
his toy. I asked him, do you want to share this?
He has a little brother, And if he says no,
then the answers no, he does not have to give
you something just because you asked for it. And we
had this this moment of like complete parental pride. I
walked into the daycare, my husband walks into the daycare

(26:15):
and believe I had this toy, and they set out
this toy and this kid came up and took the
toy and my son said, I actually want that back.
And the kid said, well, you need to share it
with me, and my son said, no, thank you. Maybe
I'll share another time, but right now I want my
toy back. I was. I was like, you better be

(26:41):
setting a boundary and not even is he in kindergarten yet?
Like yet? Yeah, like it like for us, like so
many of us have been taught that our existence is
only in service to other people, that when no one's around,
we don't even like existing. We're just like I don't

(27:02):
know who I am, I don't know what I like.
I don't know what I want to do without the
input or the feelings or the pressures or the guilt
of other people, you know, And like, one of my
favorite favorite like guiding principles is that there's two types
of guilt. There's a guilt that comes from not acting
in alignment with your values, and there's a guilt that

(27:23):
comes from anticipating other people's disappointment. And So when I
do something for myself and I feel a sense of guilt,
I ask myself what guilt am I feeling. Am I
feeling guilty because I'm doing something that I really shouldn't
be doing, Or am I feeling guilty because I know
other people are not going to like this, okay, and
that doesn't know it's the ladder. What should we do

(27:44):
or consider? Okay, they were getting really deep now, so
it's the ladder. We can engage in this idea of
emotional vaccination. Right, So, the principle of vaccination is that
you expose a person to a small dose of the virus,
so when the virus comes in a bigger dose, the
body is prepared to fight it off. Right, When we

(28:06):
emotionally vaccinate, we allow ourselves to entertain the emotional reality
of other people's disappointment before it comes, so that when
it comes, it doesn't surprise us, and when it comes,
it doesn't shock us. And oftentimes, when we're not shocked,
we're not controlled. When we're not shocked, we're not reflexive,
we're not shocked, we're not impulsive. So sitting and saying

(28:28):
I'm gonna make this boundary, this person is probably gonna
be upset. They might say this, I'm gonna feel sick
to my stomach. I'm probably gonna start sweating a little bit,
I'm gonna feel a little bit nervous. Like talking to them,
i might stutter a little bit, but the reality is,
this is what I want to do, and I can't
do it right, building up that tolerance to ye get

(28:49):
through the hard part. Rip the band data emotional vaccinations
that I've heard that phrase, but I love it. Wow. Yes,
it's an amazing psychologist, doctor Becky Kennedy. She I lend
it from her and it stuck with me ever since. Okay, oh, okay,
whole time because I am I am in real time

(29:11):
processing all of this new information in a way that
is so exciting for me. You know, we have these
conversations all the time in the podcast, we have incredible guests,
but too in real time I am so it's I'm
having to remember Zuri podcast host vibes like, we have
a bunch of talking points we have to get through

(29:32):
because you are dropping so many gems that I'm wanting
to sit with and uncover. And I know everyone listening
is feeling the same, or that so many people listening
are feeling the same because a lot of you know,
the high achievers, particularly high achieving women, We've been so
conditioned to be everything to everyone, right, so I know

(29:54):
there are a lot of people pleasers who listen to
this podcast. I am one of those recovering people pleasers,
and so to hear these remedies resolutions for our people
pleasing in a way that gets back our power. I
have had NonStop tills for the last five minutes. I
can't wait to go replay my whole episode of this
podcast with you with the wisdom that you're imparting. You

(30:20):
know the title of the book, why am I like this? Right? Yes?
I think that's a question we've all asked ourselves a
thousand times, particularly in our darkest moments or the moments
when we would rather be anything except who we seem
to be in that moment. Why did you? Why did
you title the book? Why am I like this? It's
a question I've asked myself many times, whether jokingly or

(30:45):
through tears, you know, like why am I like this?
Or like why the heck am I like this? Right?
And it's something that I recurrently hear from my clients,
you know, and I realize a lot of healing starts
with helping people understand why they are where they are,
validating this is how you got here. These are the

(31:07):
influences that made you want to people please, These are
the things that made you feel like you weren't enough.
These are the lies that you've adopted and now applied
to your life and your relationships. And so before we
even do the whole Okay, moving forward and like who
do I want to be in the future? A lot
of it is locating why am I like this right now?

(31:28):
And when we figure out where we are, we can
get a better perspective of who we want to become. Okay,
when it comes to figuring out who we are, this
book would be a great FIRSTEP for someone who hasn't,
you know, maybe delved into that. What do you recommend
we do consider? How should we be sitting with ourselves

(31:49):
to figure out why we are the way we are?
Why do people tend to be the way they are?
I mean we always go back to parenthood, you know,
or parenting in our childhood. Yeah, oh, great question again,
that's what you do what you do? I really like
tangible things that people can like, go and do. So

(32:10):
I don't want to give like theory. I want to
give an actual activity that any person listening can do.
So I want you to think about any moment of
your life that has been disappointing and that your brain
references throughout different seasons of your life. Right, So, usually
have a current pain and then our brain is like,

(32:31):
it's just like when this person blink, or it reminds
me of when this person did this, or it reminds
me when I didn't experience this. There's always like this
moment our brain latches onto over and over that is
like a reference, like the key reference for a specific
narrative in our life. Right. Right, Trauma is not just
the experiences that we've had. Trauma is what the experiences

(32:54):
we've have have left us with, right, And the truth
is those experien aparances have left us with a distorted
perspective of ourselfs in the world around us. That's why
we need healing, That's why we need restoration. And so
when I ask my clients, like when I'm doing the
trouble work with them, I usually say, Okay, when you

(33:14):
have a really difficult moment, when you are deeply disappointed.
If I were to say, I am blank and you
feel in the blank, what's the first thing that comes
to mind if I'm feeling disappointed. Yeah, when you're feeling
disappointed heartbroken, like something just absolutely devastating has happened and

(33:35):
you're just down on yourself and you're just not feeling
the best. Right. For some, it might be I'm unworthy
or I'm unlovable. No one cares about me, no one
actually wants to be with me. I'm gonna be alone forever,
like I'm right, right, and and the like. If we

(34:02):
took the I'm going to be alone forever and we
like filtered it down to our I am statement, it
could be many. It could be I'm unlovable, it could
be undesirable, right, And so now we know what we
have just identified the negative core belief, which is the
fuel and the engine of our lives. You don't see

(34:22):
the fuel tank. You don't actually see what's going in
the fuel tank. You see the little lever you stick
it in the car, and you just see the fuel
going and you don't see the fuel. The negative core
belief is the fuel to our lives, the fuel to
how we interact with the world. It's the subconscious driver
of how we interact with the world around us, right,

(34:44):
And so a lot of us don't realize that we
are walking around with a life fueled by this lie. Right.
That's what I love about negative core beliefs. When you
identify the negative core belief. You identify the lie, right,
the lie is that I will be alone forever. Yeah,
the lies that I'm unlovable, I'm unwanted, And you begin
to interact with the world through the lens of that lie.

(35:07):
And it's not an obvious way. It's not like you
walk with your head down. But you might enter into
a relationship as soon as things start getting good, start
thinking about what's wrong with this person for liking you
because in your brain, you're unlovable, right, right, Or it
might be you finding a way to get out of
this relationship because you don't want them to discover that

(35:29):
you're unlovable. Right. This subconscious thing that drives our lives
and why I love trauma work is when you discover
the lie, then you know what the truth is because
the negative core belief, when you invert it is always
the truth about who you are. It's always the most
powerful truth about who you are. Right, if you feel

(35:50):
like you are unlovable, it's actually because you are deeply lovable.
It's actually because you're probably widely loved. Right. Trauma takes
the inverse of our core identities and serves it to
us on a platter, leading us away from the destiny
that we're creative for mmm. Right, and yeah, continue please please,

(36:16):
Oh okay, I was just gonna say. And oftentimes we
feel that tension. Yeah, we feel that tension of like,
I feel I'm lovable in secret, but everyone keeps telling
me how much they love me. Everyone keeps telling me
that I just can't believe it. But I just can't
take hold of it. I can't. I feel like I
can't grasp it. Right, And so my job is to

(36:36):
help people identify the lie, identify the truth, and then
figure out the path, a unique individual path that will
lead them from the lie to the truth when it
comes to the truth, right, the inverse of that lie
for folks who might be listening and being like, yeah,
that could be true for some people, that they are worthy,
or they are lovable, or they are whatever. But I'm

(36:57):
telling you right now, that's not the case for me, right,
person who's listening and might feel that, what would you
say to them, though, Like, is this in your opinion?
And at this point, I don't know if this is
more of a spiritual question or a professional question in
the context of license therapy, But why is that true?
Why is the inverse true. Why is it true that

(37:19):
we are worthy, that I am lovable, that I am worthy? Why?
Why does it have to be true? Yeah? I think
it's both. I think it's both a clinical and a
spiritual question because you exist, right. And the reason why
I can say the inverse of what your negative core
belief is is the opposite of the truth is because

(37:42):
we are all uniquely made and all uniquely have unique perspectives.
And there's a reason why that lie hurts more to
you than it would to anybody else. Right, Like one
line has different values to every person, right, But there's
a running back by a lie that would have another

(38:04):
person ready to spiral. Yes, Oh my gosh, perfect perfect example.
The truth is the lie that feels most piercing to
you has a value to you for a reason, and
oftentimes that reason is because the inverse is true. The
depth of the pain that the lie causes reflects the

(38:25):
value of the truth of who you are. It hurts
so badly because it's the very antithesis of who you are.
That's why that why hurts you still badly. Wow? Wow, wow, Oh,
I just need a second to just sit with that.
I mean, it's it's so real, and like I know

(38:46):
this in my heart of hers ray, like that's been
a part of my journey. But it's it never gets
old to hear it, and we all neither room, even
those of us who know it and are in the
middle of the work. And Lord knows, I'm a but
Julia light years away from where I'm trying to get
with my own work. And it's like those reminders feel
good to hear to everyone, to myself in this moment,

(39:09):
like I am appreciating that reminder that when I struggle,
even with my own limiting beliefs, that it is highly
likely that the inverse is true. And for whatever reason,
that is the thing that I am working so hard
to reject. I wouldn't put that much energy into it
if it didn't matter, if it wasn't true, if it
wasn't something that I actively felt I needed to reject

(39:31):
because if something in my past that's happened to me,
or because of what I was conditioned to believe about myself. Wow. Yes,
And for those people who are like, how do I start?
Like the work in microbits like so we identify the
moments that lead to the emotional state that reveal the line,
right and you might want to go back and listen

(39:51):
to that part. But now the inverse of the lies
your positive core belief or some quality adaptable belief. We're
positive core belief. And now, so what do I do
with this positive core belief? I know what it is.
It doesn't feel true. Okay, now what do I do now? Well,
part of what trauma does for the sake of safety
it keeps our internal alarm system on, meaning it keeps

(40:15):
us ever wary of the things we're most afraid of,
and therefore most attuned to the things we're most afraid of. Therefore,
we see most of what we're afraid of. Right, that's
what we see the most because we're attuned to it
the most because it's what we're most afraid of. And
so what I do with some of my clients is like,
start by write down your positive core belief and write

(40:37):
down every moment, even if it was like super tiny,
where even for a second, that positive core belief felt true.
And as you write them down, you're going to start
to realize, oh, yeah, that was there, but your brain
didn't latch onto that the way it latched onto the
lie because the truth wasn't a threat and so the

(40:57):
threat didn't require that much attention, because that's what trauma does.
Trauma latches onto negative thoughts and negative experiences so that
it can hold onto the threat, understand it, and then
use it as a protective factor in the future. Exactly,
you know, like that, we always hear it as our
minds are meaning makers, right, and if we've been hurt

(41:18):
or traumatized in the past, our main course of action
is how do I protect myself from that experience again?
How do I avoid that at any cost? And so
we perceive interactions, encounters, experiences that could be affirming our
positive truths, right those the truths that we are, and

(41:41):
instead we're actively rejecting it and looking for like that
tiny little crack in the delivery of a truth that
might actually mean this is a threat. See, I knew
the lie was a lie, Like I know how to
protect myself from this. And this is the part where
shut down or I self sabotage or I pull away
instead of embracing that maybe what is true is what's

(42:03):
being presented to me right now. Absolutely, our brain loves
the idea of safety, right, but sometimes safety will leave
you stuck in the lies that break your heart. Okay,
so obviously this is something that you dive deeply into
in the book. What else do you sort of uncover

(42:24):
delve into what work can people expect to drum up
through reading? Why am I like this? Guess? One of
my favorite favorite favorite chapters of the book is the
chapter that goes over triggers and helping people understand that
triggers are not your faults, but they're not They are
your responsibility. They're not your fault. You didn't make it happen,

(42:47):
and you can't control when they happen, but you can
control the life you live after you experience them. Right,
And so I have an activity in the book that
you'll have to get to do that's called trace your Triggers,
And it really helps people understand the value of emotions,
like when you are triggered, what emotion comes up? And
what is that emotion communicating to you? With us? All

(43:10):
emotions are messengers, right, what to do with those emotions
oftentimes movement to deep breathing, connection to other people, solitude,
and then also understanding like what do I do with
this trigger and how do I decrease the intensity of
these triggers? A lot of people just kind of feel
like I'm gonna be triggered forever. You know, I'm triggered.
It is what it is. But like that's not true.

(43:32):
We can slowly through safety and tenderness, not harshness and meanness,
teach our bodies that we're safe enough to try new things,
to be a new environment, and to interpret the world
around us differently. So that's like my favorite part of
the book. M Okay, I'm curious to know because you know,

(43:53):
this is your life's work in this moment and your
license therapist. At this point, you talked about your journey
to where you are now. What was the catalyst to
you getting into this line of work? You know, you
mentioned that the depression and the anxiety your experience in college.
Before college, had you been in therapy? Were there any

(44:18):
conversations around mental health? Was there stigma around it for
you personally? Oh? Yes, so there was a lot of stigma.
I was not in therapy before all of this. Um,
you know, after my suicide attempt. What happened was like
I had this moment I felt so connected to God
and like gave my life to Christ all this stuff,

(44:39):
and then I was depressed again and I was like
somebody's not right here, and I was just like, what's
going on? And there's a reality that I just wanted.
I wanted my faith to somehow absolve me of my humanity.
And like the reality is, I'm a human being who
has experienced that were deeply wounding, and I'm gonna have

(45:03):
to live out a healing process, a life of healing,
a journey of healing um and that's the only way
I get out of it, like you know. And so
it was me going to therapy and honestly being in
a small town where I couldn't find a therapist that
looked like me. Like my therapists were incredible and they
helped me in ways I cannot even put words to,

(45:24):
and yet I hungered to have a therapist who understood
my jokes you know who you know, didn't look at
me kind of crazy when my hair came in. I
came in with different hair. You know, Wait what my
therapist he knows. I see my virtually and I have

(45:46):
a bonnet and I'm laying in bed and have my safety.
That is peace, I will take it. So for me,
getting into the space was about like I think that
there are people who look like me people who believe
in God, and even people who don't but believe in something,
who are trying to figure out how to be connected

(46:07):
to something outside of themselves and live in the world
we live in with the pain that they're carrying in
their bodies. And so I was like, I want to
understand this. So I went to therapy for several years,
and then after a while I was like, yeah, I
want to do this. Yeah, and then went to school
for therapy. Incredible, you know, you brought up faith, and
I think it's such an important part of this conversation

(46:29):
for so many people, myself included, right, like growing up
in a Christian household and you know, kind of experiencing
faith in a very like unquestioned way, like I just
I grew up, I'm a Christian and this is what
we believe in whatever, you know. And then I got
to a point where I found it for myself, and
so like that commitment to faith in college became a choice.

(46:49):
And then on the other side of that came the disillusionment.
Like for a brief chapter when it's like, wait, this,
this won't fix everything, This isn't enough for me to
not feel traumatized, not feel depressed, not feel anxious always
like and that was when I had to get real
with myself and figure out there's got to be a

(47:12):
way to have my faith and cling to it while
also actively supporting my own growth and um work in
a more um what's the word I'm looking for. It's
not scientific, it's um in a more you know. And
I even hesitated, like the deep down Christian to me,

(47:36):
like from eight years old, like, we don't need evidence,
we don't need you know, I guess we did. Yeah,
that's exactly like evidence based work to compliment my faith
based practices. Just yeah, that's something I think that I
had to reconcile. And I think a lot of people
who grew up in you know, traditionally very spiritual, specifically Christian.

(48:00):
In my case, the households have to reconcile like they're
not mutually exclusive. Both can exist together. Yeah, and they
almost always do, you know. Like I it's funny, I
was telling another clinician, I have quite a few Muslim
clients because the way that I approached mental health and faith,

(48:22):
They're like I can resonate with that. I get that.
I understand that I have clients from all religious backgrounds,
because the truth is, we all believe in something, even
if the only thing we believe in is ourselves, you know,
And so like there's a reality that I also had
to learn. This was a process of me healing, and
healing was not didn't exclude my faith. I had to

(48:46):
ask myself questions and say, the truth is, the way
it was taught to me, the way it was presented
to me did not actually work. That was so hard
to say out loud. It did not work. This there
has to be more of God than what was presented
to me. There has to be. And that's what actually
led me into the science and led me into the

(49:08):
studies and led me into the like, oh, there is
something that biologically changes when we put words to our
emotions and say something out loud. Right, it's the principles
called name entertainment. Right. It our right side of our brain,
connected to our emotion, sends off calming signals to the
left side. Rather, the left side of the brain sends

(49:29):
calming signals, So the right side of the brain when
we put words to our emotions, right, that's why we
should talk about it. There's like an I could nerd out,
but like I went into all of this because the
truth was I was like, God has to care about
my pain, and a lot of what I was talking
about it was just system. It's like God cares about
your pain if someone put their hands on you. And
it's like, no, God cares about the pain that's caused

(49:51):
by the words that people speak to me. Like, the
part of the brain that metabolizes physical pain is the
same part of the brain that metabolizes emotional and social pain.
Getting hit is no less painful than someone's speaking ill
over you. Right, it's painful, you know it hurts. People's
words hurt us on a biological level. Um and than ever.

(50:15):
We can give you words left and right all day
every day, girl, everything they oh yeah, yep, every single thing.
What are you doing? What you shouldn't say that you're
and like I have, I have a no tolerance for foolery.
If I even feel like you said something kind with

(50:35):
a spirit of condescension, you're blocked and you never get
a chance of okay. See that's just like I can't, Yeah,
I can't be emotionally distraught for my kids because it's
something you you commented at seven am in the morning, right, real,
not happening, you know, And so yeah, this book is

(50:58):
for This book is for every person who believes in
God because they've experienced because they felt like there's God
out there. But as questioned, is the way that people
have taught me about God good from my mind and
my body? And I dig a lot into that that, like, No,

(51:22):
God is not over here trying to beat you and
punish you. God is giving you comfort. God is giving
you peace, God is giving you grace. God for me,
God was the only place I found a sense of
rest and joy in the middle of the hard stuff.
So I hope this book communicates that to every single

(51:42):
person who reads it. Oh oh, well, the book It's
out April April fourth, The book is out. Why am
I like this? How to break cycles He'll from drama
and to restore your faith? So I asked all of
the above, where can we get book? We can get
the book anywhere books are sold, Burdens and Noble, Amazon, Target, Walmart,

(52:07):
Book Similian, all of it. And you know, I have
this crazy dream as a first time mental health and
faith author of getting this book on the New York
Time bestseller list. Do you know I tell people all
the time, like remember when Twilight came out and it
was popping and then it was vampires everything for ten years. Well,
what happens when a black woman who talks about trauma

(52:30):
recovery gets on the list? We tell the industry, we
want more women of color talking about trauma recovery. We
want more women leading us in healing. We want more
women of color in the conversation of healing. Who knows
pain like women of color, and who knows healing like
women of color? Right, And so for me, it has

(52:52):
meant so much to be able to stand on platforms
offered to me like this and say, like boldly, I
want to be on that list, and I want you
to be a part of the miracle of that happening. Claimant. Claimant,
And I am right there sending you all of the
good vibes in the manifestation. Listen, after one hour talking
to you, I'm like, there's no way that is not

(53:14):
only up from here. You have been such a blessing
to my audience, to this show, to me, like I am.
I was excited to talk to you and I love
what you're doing. But after this conversation, I am just
overjoyed and grateful because you have. You've been a blessing
to me. This conversation has moved me in ways that
I couldn't have even expected. So thank you for that. Well,

(53:36):
thank you for having me. It's been I love talking clearly,
so you're gonna pleasure good at it. It's good with
you and having this conversation, So thank you. If people
want to follow you, keep up with you. Where can
we find you online? On social media? All of those places? Yes,
everywhere online, it's at Kobe c Ampbel l So it's

(53:58):
at Kobe and then amble like the soup, Kobe leg
Bryant Campbell, like the soup underscore. I love it, Kobe
Leg Bryant Campbell, like the soup underscore. Kobe, thank you
so much. Thank you. All right, y'all, that's it for
this week's episode of Hot Happy Mess. Make sure you
all go pick up Kobe's brand new book again. It's
called Why Am I Like This? How to Break Cycles,

(54:20):
Heal from Trauma and Restore Your Faith April fourth, wherever
books are sold, and I will talk to you next week.
Every Wednesday, we've got a new episode of Hot Happy Mess.
I'm Zuri Hall. You can keep up with me. At
Zuri Hall and at Hot Happy Mess in the meantime,
and I'll talk to y'all next week. Ye hi, Happy Bess.

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