Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
M Hot Happy Mess, Celebrate your magic in the middle
of life's messes. Hot Happy. I'm seriall and this is
(00:20):
hot happy made shoot. What is up? Hello? This is
hot happy Mess and I am Zuri. It's Wednesday. If
you are a real one and listening to this on
the day of upload, and if that is the case,
then happy Wednesday too. That got a little low and vibrato. Eeve.
(00:43):
I'm sorry, I'm a little bit slap happy. I don't know.
I just know I just drank the last of my
coffee and it's hitting, hitting happy. Whatever day today is
for you, I hope that it's a great one. I'm
glad that you've joined me for another episode of Hot
Happy Mess. I am just getting back from a week off,
much needed week off, very much appreciated week off. Went
(01:06):
to Ohio, the home state. Oh h baby, let's go.
Also the Ohio State University, my alma mater, just trademarks
the word the successfully and you really love to see it,
because come on, the Ohio State University. Go bucks. Anyways,
I'm back from some rest, back from some family time,
(01:28):
and now I am I'm thinking about two things, like
I have a housewarming situation that I want to have
because it's been over a year that I've been in
the house. The significant renovations are done for now the
main level, um, and I want to have people over.
But also I'm kind of just like not tired tired.
I'm just like chilling and I'm emphasis on the home
(01:48):
body which, speaking of, you should follow it my side account,
my side Instagram account home Body Hall at home body
Hall on Instagram for all of my home renovation and
took organ design tips and like just sharing all of
my first time homeowners stuff. I didn't want to blow
up my main page with it, but for people who
are interested in a more deep dive insider look, go
(02:12):
follow me at home Buddy Hall. Yeah, so I'm thinking
about planning this housewarming party. I'll definitely have it sometime
this summer or just before Labor Day at the very latest.
So I've got to figure out like a cute theme,
a little menu, drinks, the playlist. So if y'all have
any recommendations slide of my d m s, let me know.
Because I'm too tired. No, I'm not tired. I don't
(02:33):
know why I can't. What is the word that I'm
actually looking for? I am too. I don't care enough.
That's what I'm looking for. I care to have the party,
but I don't care enough to be particularly stressed about
the details right now. Once I have a little more
time on my hands, I can get into the weeds
with it. But it's not imperative that I'd be sorted
(02:54):
out anytime soon. So that's what I mean. I'm not
actually tired. I'm trying to be intentional with my words.
Oh okay, today, speaking of intent, I intend to live
a peaceful life. I wake up in the morning's setting
intentions for my day and myself, and that includes peace.
Today's episode is all about peace, and as you know,
it's a topic that I love talking about. I love
(03:17):
getting other people's perspectives on and having conversations around because
this concept of peace and what it means to feel
it in a consistent and true and deep way has
changed my life. It really has changed my life. It's
it's been transformative. You know. I said many years ago
peace shouldn't feel so foreign. I said that in a
(03:38):
blog post, my alphabet blog post, Oh my gosh, more
than half a decade ago, and that quote resonated with
so many of you. So I'm excited to dive into
more of that in today's episode. You know, peace begins
with Me is not just a saying, and it's something
that I had to really learn how to internalize and believe.
(04:01):
I am in control. I am very much the maker
of the moments that I'm in. And if I have
the foundation, if you have the foundation, if we have
the foundation and the groundwork and the tools, the tool
kits to self regulate and self soothe or get back
to a place of peace and stillness, particularly in turbulent moments,
(04:23):
well then we really have it all. We have so much.
So I'm excited for this conversation coming up next with
Morgan because she just exudes calm, peace, good energy. I
so enjoyed learning from her as she shares four practical
ways for us to practice peace. Um also her personal
story of being diagnosed with autism and how we can
(04:45):
practice peace in our daily lives. You're gonna love it.
Here's Morgan alright. Popular Instagram poet and artist Morgan Harpert
Nichols has created her life's work around the stories of others.
Morgan's popular Instagram feed has garnered a loyal online community
of nearly two million. She also hosts a podcast, The
Morgan Harper Nicole's Show, where she shares daily reflections on
(05:08):
finding meaning and peace and life and work. Morgan is
often on the road, creating, teaching, and performing in hopes
of spreading her unique inspirational message and inviting others into
her creative process. Morgan currently resides in Phoenix, Arizona, with
her husband and son. Her latest book, which I have
had the pleasure of digging into a highly recommend it,
(05:30):
Peace is a Practice and Invitation to breathe deep and
find a new rhythm for life, is available now. Morgan, Hello,
how are you Hello? Thank you so much for the
warm welcome. I'm honored to be here. I'm doing pretty good.
How about yourself, I'm doing well, thank you. It's it's
been a crazy month, but no complaints. So um, I
(05:52):
need your book more than ever. I've got to be
reminded these days that pieces of practice. I mean, you know,
it's I don't know if I'm the only person but
who feels this way, But I feel like I feel
like time is really it's so weird right now, Like
it seems like every month I'm like, wow, is it
still this month? Really? Like, like, we still have another
(06:12):
whole week and they're still totally get that. I'm glad
you feel me. UM. Like I said, your book, this
conversation couldn't have come at a better time. UM, for
those who might be listening and newer to your work
or all of the amazing accomplishments that that you have
under your belt, just kind of break it down for
(06:34):
me a little bit of your journey, because what's so
fascinating is that you've lived many lives. You You've expressed
your art and your talents in so many different ways, UM,
from working on Grammy nominated projects and writing for other
artists to obviously this beautiful and inspirational Instagram and social
media following. UM, talk to me a little bit about
where you started and how you ended up where you
(06:56):
are now. Yes, yes, so I grew up in a
very creative family. UM. I was homeschooled, preacher's kid. So
it was when I talk about it, girl, I'm like, oh,
it sounds like a nice little, you know thing, and
it and it was. But at the same time, I
mean I was really kind of like the weird kid.
(07:17):
I mean I still but I own that proudly. Sometimes
when I say that, people like, don't call yourself that.
I'm like, it's fine, Like I've yeah, I'm gonna cool,
Like it's it's just gonna So I'm like, I'm fine
with that. So it was me and my my sister
who was two years younger than me, and we just
you know, it was through from a very young age.
(07:39):
Like if I did make a friend, it was through creativity.
A lot of times, it was through when I learned
how to play guitar and like meeting other kids who
knew how to play instruments and stuff. So from a
very young age, creativity became about connection, Like I just
associated that with you know, when you express yourself creatively,
(07:59):
it ends up opportunities for you to meet other people.
And you know, as we know, especially being young, that
is so important. You know for teenagers, like all you're
worried about it's like, oh, you know, how do you
fit in in the world and in these groups and
all those things. So that was kind of like the
first my first real initiation of my team years. Like
(08:20):
I was just your typical cliche millennial, you know, into
my space with you know, coding my little pages and
doing it for friends. Yeah, except again back to the
no friends thing. Like me and my sister we were
just riding out. We were each other number one, and
(08:42):
the rest seven were like bands like just like like
forget everybody else, Like we're just gonna put each other
forget it. Okay, Yeah, we were just we're just like
we're gonna do our own thing like whatever. So yeah,
I was just so fascinated. Like for me, the internet
(09:02):
was an opportunity to just create and and even just
passively just connect with other people. So I say all
that to say, from that point to literally like ten years,
it was just let's just try stuff. Like I went
to college. I I started in music without ange up
graduated with the English degree. I had like a desk
(09:25):
job for two years after I graduated, but even then
it was at my college. It was at my college.
I was a mission counselor. So I was the one
when he called and said, hey, tell me about the school.
That was me, And I'm like, okay, send your transcript
to this address. And I kept, you know, result the
files and all that kind of stuff. Actually really loved
(09:45):
that job. I really loved it because again it was
that connection thing, you know. I was just that was
something I always struggled with, and it felt really special
to like be able to like, I'm still in touch
with some of the students that I that I helped
all says I still am all these years later, because
that was just special to me. Like I was just
(10:06):
like I I really liked helping high schoolers like through that,
Like that was just I enjoyed that job. But the
job moved, it moved to a different part of the state.
I couldn't moved with it. So that is what launched
me into just the freelance chaos of just let me
just try stuff. So you know, it's it's so interesting
(10:27):
even hearing my bio, it's like, oh yeah, those are
some of the peaks in those moments, you know, working
on these big projects, music projects and stuff. But you know,
as many people know, there's also all of those rejections
and those valleys that val well of like me just
putting a lot of hope into I moved to Nashville
(10:47):
and tried to have like a full blown songwriter career.
Then that didn't work, so I was like, well, let
me try a singer songwriter career. Okay, performing artist. Singer songwriter,
performing artist background vocal listening or song how many you're going?
And it got to a point where I was just
(11:08):
like I was so tired, Like I was just burnt out.
I was exhausted. And I ended up writing a poem
about it when I was when I was twenty six,
and this was in sixteen, I just wrote a poem
about just feeling so burned out and exhausted and feeling
like I had let down let down so many people,
(11:28):
especially my family, like I have very supportive parents and
my sister and my husband, and I just felt like, wow,
I just let everybody down, Like all these people have
supported me, and why why didn't you feel like you
were letting them down? That? You know? I think it's
because I saw I saw especially my sister. My sister's
(11:51):
two years younger than me, and she had really fast
success in her music at a very young age. And
even though my younger sister two years younger than me,
she really brought me along, like she was like, Hey,
I'm going on this tour. I have this sister who
also sings, Like can she be an opener? Um? You
(12:11):
know my mom she has background the entertainment industry, Like
I saw her trying to like help me, like get
in the door. And and you know, I me and
my husband we met in college and then he just
like jumped on the band wagon with me of like okay,
this freelance and just figure stuff out. And I saw
him just like being okay with like Okay, yeah, let's
just moved to Nashville, you know, and I'm like, oh,
(12:34):
all that stuff was to help, like to help me,
and and to not see it reached the level that
I thought it was going to. It was just really hard,
you know, it's it was just hard, and I I
just remember just feeling defeated. And I also had like
a few I had a few industry people along the
(12:54):
way as well who were like maybe they weren't like
the top top executive, but they were so one who
was like hey, I see you. I see what you're doing,
Like you're talented, you have something like here's how I
can help. And just feeling like wow, these people really
you know, stuck their nick out for me, like tried
to help me. And you know, I see it now differently,
but you know, back then when I was thinking that
(13:17):
way and I was super broke and I was super tired,
it just felt like and this massive hyphenated like, oh
my gosh, how many more jobs I have to add?
It was just it was just too much. It was
just too much. And um also a whole other thing
that I just found out last year, Um the beginning
(13:37):
of last year is that I have autism. I'm autistic,
and and you just found that out last year. Yeah. Well,
I was diagnosed lash years I technically started to figure out.
But for me, I'm curious to know when you got
the diagnosis, did that bring peace? Did that bring clarity?
(13:58):
Was there a sense of relief? Did you always wonder
if something, if there might be something, you know, particularly
in social interaction? Oh my goodness. Yes, That's why I'm
even able to tell my story the way I tell
it now, because I didn't. I didn't know why I
was struggling. I just assumed it was because I was homeschooled.
(14:19):
You know, I was a prettyer skid. I was like, oh,
that's it. You know, nobody from to hang out with me.
But now I know, I'm like, oh no, there were
other layers. It was just like, for instance, you know,
autism is the spectrum. It looks different for everyone. But
for me, what a lot of times that looks like
because I don't I don't hear a tone of voice
very well, so I could never really differentiate between like
(14:43):
what was like a very friendly hello or what was
just like a just an in passing hello. So sometimes yeah,
and I still I still struggle with it. But growing
up it was a real issue. So there would be
times where I would like think I was be friend
ending a group of girls, and then you know, I
would find out later, Oh, they were just tolerating me
(15:05):
like they weren't. Actually I thought they were legitimately my friends,
and then I found oh, they had a party, they
did the thing I wasn't invited, and just all of that.
For years, not knowing what that was, I just thought
it was my fault. I just thought, oh, it's you know,
something's wrong with me, or it's how I grew up,
(15:26):
it's because of this, is because of that. So to
get that diagnosis was so healing because now I can
look back over my whole life, even that story I
was just telling about twenty six that being I was like, oh,
I wasn't just dealing with burnout. I was also dealing
with autistic burnout. Because for me, I need a lot
(15:46):
of recovery time when it comes to work, especially the
stuff I was doing in the music industry, because I
also have a sensory processing disorder within that. So there
were times where I would be in a vocal booth
doing background vocals and the same kind of timeframe that
a normal background vocalists would do, but I would walk
away from that just just like wanting to cry, just
(16:08):
feeling like my brain was just like And that's because neurologically,
on a sensory level, just hearing all those sounds, hearing
those having those headphones in my ear three or four
hours at a time, it was significantly Yeah, it's the
closest I can explain to it. It's like I, for me,
the sound of like just moderately volume music, it's like
(16:32):
the equivalent of being in like an elementary school lunchroom
with like which is the first grade. I was like,
oh my god, crazy, Yeah, yeah, it's it is very
loud because it's just the differentiation. I'm not getting all
of that. So yeah, I was just tired. We're not
(16:55):
didn't know why. I didn't know. I just it was
wearing out of me. But somehow, through all of that,
I ended up writing a poem about it, and I
just I wrote a poem that starts with when you
start to feel like things should have been better this year,
remember the mountains and valleys that brought you here. And
the poem ends with you were wrapped in endless, boundless grace.
(17:17):
There is more to you than yesterday. And for some reason, I,
you know, I guess it's just the twenty one century,
you know, thing to do. I just felt like, oh,
let me just take a picture of it, and I
put it on Pinterest. And I put it on Pinterest
and I just forgot about it. I just put it
up and I just left alone. And that following in January,
(17:38):
I started to get messages from people. They were like, Hey,
did you write this poem that you know? This reality
star posted it has your name on it, and I
was like, I did. I don't know how they saw it.
Went back and looked the Pinterest had been repinned over
a hundred thousand times. Oh my gosh, who is the
reality star who posted it? I think the first person
I'm blinking on her last name? She she uh, Christina,
(18:02):
she's um HDTV show. I think she and her Christina
Hack Christina Hack or She was married to Tarik el
musa second My Entertainment News Red Carpe reporting, You're like, what,
You're like, I got you? Okay? Yeah. I think she
(18:23):
was the very first one and she shared that and
I was just like, how on earth did she find this?
It just blew my mind. So I was like, let
me go back on like a Pinterest and had been
repinned over a hundred thousand times, and you know, to me,
it was just you know, there's a lot that I
I learned from that, But I think the biggest thing
(18:45):
was I was like, oh, that whole vulnerability thing that
I was struggling with internally, As it turns out, there's
at least a hundred thousands of other people with that
same feeling, and right that, to me, it was just
very healing. It was very encouraging. And I think that's
(19:07):
that's ultimately what led to like the version of what
I did to do today and what was the pinterest
viralty sort of a catalyst to oh well, I just
kind of that was like the trick shot, right, like
when you throw the basketball and who can just walk
away and then everybody's like, yeah, You're like, what happened
you back? And realized, like, did you start being more
(19:30):
intentional I actually try to, Like, yes, I did, and
like everything I wrote just sounded the same like for
a long time after that because I was just like
I don't even know, like you know, because I wasn't
trying to make it happen. So it took me about
it took me. That was January, and then it was
(19:51):
in October when I realized something of that year. I
realized something. I was like, you know what I keep
because I kept trying, like you said, after the trick shot,
I kept like repeat it and I was like, I
just can't figure out. And I was like, but here's
the thing. I was like, for some reason, I feel
like I can write more freely whenever I'm just talking
(20:12):
to someone one on one. So if someone like d
mned me and they were like, hey, I really enjoyed
this poem that you wrote, and they were just sharing
their story with me, so that's when the words would
just kind of flow out in that moment when I'm
just focused on one person instead of trying to, you know,
manage all these other people you know in the world.
And I decided in October between seventeen and I still
(20:35):
do it to this day. I said, hey, I posted
on my Instagram story. I said, hey, if you would
like for me to write something in response to your story,
just send me a d M. I won't share your
story publicly, and I'll just respond to you with art
and poetry. And I thought that maybe I would do
like one or two, but I woke up the next
day and like hundreds of people had deemed me and
(20:58):
it just kept going and I was just so in
love with that process and I still am and now
that that idea of just one person at a time
that really guides like everything that I do. And I
think what I had to learn though, was like one
person time. I had to start with myself though, Like
(21:19):
I had to be the first, the first person. I
had to look at myself in the mirror and say,
I know I may not be a failure, but I
feel like a failure, like I feel this way. And
I had to really really like look at that. And
that's where that first poem came from. And yeah, that's
that's what I tried to do. Today. I still try
(21:42):
to sit and reflect and say, you know, where am
I at right now? Like what do I feel? What
do I feel that might not even be true, but
I feel it anyway, And and yeah, I just try
to start from that place. And you know you started,
you discovered that process, the process that resonates most with you.
What I really love about what you said is you
(22:03):
know that you realized locking in on that one on
one connection ironically allowed you to connect with the world,
quite frankly, and to me, that is the truest thing.
I genuinely literally feel chills just hearing you say that
and and talking about this with you, because we're all
so desperate for connection and that that feeling of being seen,
(22:27):
and we so rarely feel it. I don't care. You
can be the most famous person. I sit on these
purpose these junkets, and I talked to these celebrities who
are miserable. They're alone, they don't feel understood, they don't
feel seen for who they actually are. UM. And to
hear you saying that you were giving that you give
people that opportunity to feel seen, to feel heard through
(22:51):
one on one connection, UM, it kind of it makes
so much sense. Why why that would connect so so swiftly,
um and so profoundly with millions of people? Because now
that that's exactly who you have supporting you. UM. And
I love that it came from this genuine desire to
just make one person a little bit more heard. So
(23:12):
that's that's beautiful. Your book goes into four practical ways
your newest book, I should I should clarify because there's
more than one, but the newest book dives into four
practical ways to practice peace. You talk about the beauty
of being present your personal story of pursuing peace UM
(23:34):
while living on the spectrum you know, after your diagnosis
UM of living with autism, how to be your authentic
self UM, giving yourself grace which is a big one
for me for our audience, UM. And how to find
peace in a fearful world. I mean, we are living
in a world where constant clickbait, scary headlines, the anxiety
(23:55):
fuels the clicks and the subscriptions, and we're all the
poorer for it mentally. UM. Why was now the perfect
time for you to explore this um in published form?
And what is your hope when people read this book?
Where are you hoping they walk away understanding about themselves
and about how to exist in a world that wants
(24:18):
you to be anything but at peace? Yes, Oh my goodness,
that's such a ah, that's such a good question. And
you know, kind of going back to the one person
at a time thing. Um, you know, as I think
about what, like like what you just said, everything we've
been going through it over the past few years, I
(24:38):
just kept thinking about someone who was ten years younger
than me, a young woman ten years younger than me,
because I just kept thinking about, like, as hard as
it is for me right now, after I've lived a
little bit, you know, I still got ways to go,
but you know, I'm not like fresh out of college
like I was, like, I'm I've lived a little bit
um and as hard as it is, even that a
(25:00):
little bit of experience, a little bit more wisdom than
I had ten years ago. I just kept thinking about, Wow,
it's got to be so hard for someone even younger
than me. So that was the image that I started with.
But you know, like that whole thing about being particular,
you you end up writing for other people as well.
So I ended up writing this book just thinking about
(25:23):
different people in my life that I have been talking
to through you know, my audience, and and also people
that I know personally. We're just feeling really, really overwhelmed
right now, and maybe you don't have time for another,
you know, fifteen step thing to add to your list
to to to make you make you feel better. I
(25:44):
wanted to write something that you could just flip through
and open, or if you want to listen to the
audio book, just swipe over to something and just listen
and say, Okay, here's a small thing that I can
do to just breathe deep today. And that is the
core of the book. And it was very intimidating a
little bit to even think about, you know. I was like,
I'm gonna write about the book, this book about this,
(26:06):
and then I'm like, wait, am I qualified to do this?
And you know I am qualified because it's like you
just now, I'm trying so hard not to be tempted
and like go on this tangent, because please ask yourself
that am I qualified to do this? I asked myself
(26:26):
that almost every day still. And it is so fascinating
right to hear about, you know, to see and how
obviously talented you are. And when you look at your
Instagram is like, oh, I can't I can't find a
more qualified person like this woman, um is admitting from
her pores um, the essence of peace, and it affirmat
positive affirmation and self love and celebration. Um. The fact
(26:51):
that you still would ask yourself that question. It goes
to that idea of impostor syndrome and how it really
is something that we all struggle with no matter where
we are in our life. Yeah, yeah, that was so. Yeah,
it's the question hasn't gone away. And you know, I
think that that that ended up being. I'm like, well,
(27:11):
you know, I told these people I'm gonna write a book,
so I gotta. I got to do it so right.
I can't back out down. It's too late. The papers,
the papers have been signed. So I'm like, how am
I gonna How am I gonna push through it? How
am I gonna write? And I just kept thinking about
again that younger me. I'm like that younger version of
(27:32):
I'm like, younger Morrigan ten years ten years ago, Morrigan
needs to see today Morgan write this and right through
it and right through the question. Am I qualified? And yeah,
I would love to say. When I reached the last chapter,
I was like I feel qualified now, No, I didn't. Not.
Still I'm still scrolling through that word doc, like, oh
(27:55):
my godness, I hope this makes some kind of sense,
um like, okay, editor, fix it out for me. I'm kidding,
but it's it was serious though of like wow, okay, yeah,
this is what it feels like to to right through
that feeling that didn't go away, and that, to me
(28:16):
is what it means to practice peace. It's the unknowns
are still there, the questions are still there, and and
it's so hard too, because the more you know, the
more let's say, you know, marginalized identities that you have,
if you're disabled, if you're you know, if you're black,
if you're in any group that's like, yeah, you're over there.
You know, we only let so many of y'all in.
(28:37):
The more of those that you have, the harder I
think it is to answer that question, because you're constantly
surrounded with the opposite. You're surrounded with people who are
who are oftentimes tokenizing and saying, okay, we only let
so many in, only let so many in. So that question,
that question mark goes from like a you know, just
(28:58):
like a regular question to a bold underlined size font
size are people actually gonna listen? Am I actually going
to be supported? And I had those questions with every chapter.
There's even one part in the book. I wrote about
this because this happened to me like weeks before my um,
(29:19):
weeks before my first book came out first like traditional
book publisher. I had so years ago. I had seen
on Twitter, which it's like, why did this? Why did
this stick with me? I shouldn't just let it go,
But it didn't. It just stuck with me. I also
want to write this. They said no one should write
a book before their thirty you haven't lived long enough.
(29:41):
Who did that exactly? I don't even know, Like that's
the problem. That's the problem, you know. And it just
stuck with me, like it isn't that so terrible? Like
I hate that that's the case. Well, just a few
my books, a few weeks shy by my book coming
(30:02):
out and turning thirty, both of those are happening at
the same time. I was like, oh, yeah, okay, you know,
my book's coming out just like a few days before thirty. Again,
this is a name, the first one Twitter. I don't
even repe who it was. I meet an author that
I used to look up to, and they were speaking
to a very about five of us who were like
(30:25):
different public figures in a different way. And we were all,
you know, relatively young, and they looked at us and said, no,
one including you all should not be writing a book
before year forty. Really, Oh so they just don't want
us out here, right, nothing ever exactly, And I was like, wow,
(30:46):
the audacity and limitation exactly. And it's like, you know,
I'm like this person saying this has and they were
firston who has more privileged than me? Like I'll just
leave it at that. I'm like, wow, you have no idea.
I'm like, you're talking to somebody who literally, just a
(31:10):
few generations ago in my own family, there were anti
literacy laws in this country, Like for me to write poetry,
to read anything at all is an act of resistance,
is a miracle that we're able to do this. So
it's and that's I wrote about that in the book
(31:32):
because I was like, this is literally something I was
just carrying with me. And I was like, no, I'm
not going to carry this with me in to another decade.
I'm not going to carry this with me to another
decade of like, oh, I'm not qualified to forty because
I'll probably meet somebody, but thirty nine birthday telling me
what I can't do till I fifty soft. You know,
(31:55):
y'all want me in my grade with my first publication,
Like what is? I'm sorry, so I actually want the book.
I was like, hey, if you're young reading this, like
please right away, like we want to hear from you. Yeah.
You might look back on some of the stuff you
said and you're like, oh, I wish I could have
said it differently, but I think it's worth it. I
(32:15):
think it's worth it to to make space for that. Absolutely,
and you you just have to begin. You know, if
people waited until they felt a hundred percent already qualified,
um educated to do anything, we would never do anything.
I'm sure you look back at the things you did
in your twenties. I certainly do, and you cringe at
some of the things. But then I look at other
(32:36):
things and I say, thank god I started it then,
otherwise I wouldn't be where I am now. When it
comes to evolution and progress. I hate to hear that
someone that you admired to still that too, because it's like,
you know, I heard that after you know, at that point,
I have a book coming out, I'm already I have
a publisher, I have all these things It's like, imagine
(32:59):
somebody hearing that, who is just getting the courage to,
you know, press published on Instagram for the first time.
You know, it's like that stuff kind crushing. So yeah,
I'm just I'm just glad that we're even talking about
it now, because I think that you know that permission
is just so important, right right. You start the book
(33:20):
off with one of my favorite spirituals is Well with
My Soul. One of my favorite songs. I listened to
this thing religiously. It's called Peace Be Still by Hope
Darst and the lyrics are beautiful. I highly recommended whoever
is listening right now check it out. I'm curious to
know more about what peace means for you. You said
(33:42):
that you associate the word piece with a river. I
love the visual that I have when I think about that.
What what do you mean when you say that? Yes? Yes,
so I yeah. I love just even you highlighting the
songs because I think that, Um, you know what, I
started thinking about peace and how I need peace in
(34:03):
my life. I started to think about what I tend
to do, and that's I try. I tend to intellectualized peace.
I tend to try and figure out Okay, what's kind
of the step by step that I need to get
to peace? Or what do I need to clear off
my schedule, or what unknown do I need to get
figured out? I started coming up with the plant so
I can get there. And as I started to reflect,
(34:26):
I went all the way back to childhood, and I
thought about that song it is Well with my soul,
and how from that moment hearing that as a kid,
when the author says peace like a river. When hearing that,
I started to associate peace with the river, and I
just took a little poetic license, and I was like,
you know what, maybe that's not a coincidence. Maybe maybe
(34:48):
we're missing something by only defining these big, important soul
level things such as peace by just a dictionary term
or you know, just some kind of step by step.
What I love about a river is that it's something
that you have to traverse through the wilderness to find.
You have to you have to go and and and
into a place that you might not be comfortable or
(35:10):
or familiar with, and you have to slow down and
listen for for the rush of the water. It's a
whole process trying to find that river, trying to see
I have I have. There's like a I mean, it's
probably technically a creek. I was technically a creek near
by my house, but I call it a river. And
it's times like I drive by that thing and I
(35:35):
try to see and look for that. It takes some
real concentration to see through the trees. I'm like, us
we ever flowing a day? Is there been enough water
coming through? Oh? Yeah, it's it's a whole process. It's
it's a it's almost like a sense that I have
to practice looking for that peaceful thing. So that's why
I defined it as as piece as a river right
(35:57):
from the beginning, because I wanted to give people in it.
I wanted to give something that said, you know, when
when the you know my book falls into this category
and it's like when the self help book is just
like I don't want that right now, like I need answers,
or when you're just like okay, I read enough for
or I did this and I did that and I
still don't feel that piece. I think that we can
(36:18):
still turn to nature, we can still turn and look
at this beautifully divine, creative world as an example as
a way to be reminded of what is actually like
to pursue peace and daily life. And it's not something
like many other things in life that we can just
pick up and buy off the shelf. It's something that
we have to slow down and seek and continue to
(36:39):
seek and return to on a daily basis. So, yeah,
you mentioned nature as one of those ways to find
peace reconnect with it. I've you know, had experts on
the podcast. We've talked about the restorative nature, the restorative
(37:00):
yeah nature, no Punintendo of being out in nature, um,
and what that does to just go outside and breathe
some fresh air, connect with mother nature. Um. You share
a number of ways that we can incorporate peace into
our daily lives in the book. What are maybe just
a couple of those examples that you encourage people to
(37:21):
consider if we're looking to infuse our lives with a
little more peace today? Right? Because Hot Happy Mess is
all about best life minus the burnout. I was just
best life or bust for the first ten years of
my adult life, and all I had to show for
it was frustration, exhaustion, burnout, anxiety about some you know,
situational depression. Um. And I said something has to give,
(37:42):
and so peace has quite literally become a practice for me.
But for those who might be new to that process
or new to the idea of intentionally seeking peace, Um,
what what do you suggest they do to begin? Mm hmmm. Yeah.
So I filled the book with practices that have been
very helpful to me. And um, you know again, just
(38:04):
going back to my autism diagnosis, I didn't know I
was autistic, but because of that, I, for me, seeking
peace is a it's a daily, hourly thing because my
nervous system, it gets pretty packed in there real fast.
So I mean it when I say I've got to
look for every little thing that I can find to
(38:26):
help me breathe deep in daily life. And those have
just become a part of my rhythm. So I go
as small as something I've talked about in the book
is lighting a candle when I sit down to work
on a project. And the reason why is because you know,
there's been research done on what artificial light does to
us and dust to our bodies, and and how it
(38:48):
affects our body's natural rhythms. Because for the first time
in human history, since creating artificial light, we no longer
in our day when the when the sun has gone
from the you know, if our days are twenty four
hour now there's there's lights everywhere, and you know, on
the surface, that might just seem like a passive thing,
(39:10):
just like a you know, remnant of our modern world.
But if you really unpack it, you see that, Oh,
that affects how we sleep, That affects like how we
how we how we even relate to darkness, and and
may even feel restless when things are too dark or
too quiet or too slow. So I'm really interested in
(39:31):
in in how to restore some of that. And for
me personally, since we're processing, the lights really get to me,
like I'm always turned off lights as much as I can.
Oh my goodness, I'm always turn off lights the electric bill,
Yes it is, yes, and answer that. And what I
learned and realized with incorporating candles whenever I'm working on something,
(39:53):
especially after the sun has gone from the sky, is
that candles can only stay lit for so long. You know,
a lot bulb can burn for thousands and thousands of
hours before it burns out, whereas a candle cannot burn
that way before that wik is like, hey, I need
a break, like like we've got to cool off for
(40:16):
a minute. And what I've known this is that when
I start something working on that candle, on that candle
burns out and it's ready to go all right, that's
when it's time for me to take a break. When
I candle is taking a break, I'm going to take
a break. And even just that small thing has helped
me so much because I tend to put myself on
the pressure of burning like an artificial light, and I'm
(40:38):
actually a lot more like a candle. I'm a lot
more like a candle. I can only do so much
before I meet that time. So that's one of my
favorite practices in the book because I feel like it's
so simple, like there's no other steps, like just light
a candle. Just light a candle and see how that
that that feels for you. And another one is mindfully
(41:00):
listening to music. And I talk about how how music
because there's so much of it being made right now,
we're not really listening to music the way we used to. It's,
you know, I'm a bunch sound like an old person,
but it's like back in the day we used to
remember going to like Walmer and buying an album and
like listening to it and just sitting there listening to
(41:23):
it and and even you know, for me, maybe this
one everyone's experience, but for me, seeing myself in the music,
finding language from my emotions in the music, and that's
something that that is harder. It gets harder when you
have so much access. So another practice that I that
I encouraged people to do is to go and find
(41:45):
songs that have meaning, maybe it's it's from your culture,
it's from your family, and and just create like a
pieces of practice playlist where it's like, these songs helped
me breathe deep. And for me, a lot of the
songs on my playlist of songs that my parents told
me about when I was a kid, and just having that,
(42:06):
just having that on my playlist is something that now
I can pass on to my child. But it's also
just something that I can just have in that moment
amiss all of the other pressure around me. It's like,
here's a positive way to use my senses listening to
slow down and be present to the to the moment.
(42:26):
Because one of the amazing things about music is that no,
I love podcasts, like that's the thing. I'm mostly listen
to podcasts now. I really don't even like I have
to remind myself listen to music. But you know you
can listen to podcasts and audiobooks on to x speed.
Can't listen to music on two x speed. Doesn't make
sense not So it's just these small things can can
(42:49):
help us. And one of the bigger ones on end
on this will not give the short version of it,
and that is something that I call it a personal
bibliography and I created. I created this inspired by my
college days when I was feeling a bit um, not
making friends, struggling with that whole thing. And I had
(43:10):
this this girl that I met when I first got
on campus in and I told her I liked her
shirt and she was like, oh, it was my favorite
band and we started talking a few hours later, she
comes on my dorm and she had burned a CD
with that band on it and some other bands, and
she was just like, oh, these are you know, here's
that band and some other brands. I thought you might
like it, and I was like, oh, thank you so much.
(43:31):
And from that CD, how I ended up finding out
one of my favorite artists and I still listen to
a lot of the artists art Sufie On Stevens, Sufian Stevens. Yeah,
like full singer, songwriter and just so many beautiful songs.
And I never would have known about him had it
not been from not been for her. And I never
(43:53):
saw her again, I don't know that. I don't know
if she like it was very small school. I don't
know if she transferred the next muster, I don't I
don't know what it was the next day and I
saw her again, and I find and yes, there's grief
and sadness there, and at the same time I find
peace in that because it's like, Wow, how beautiful is
(44:16):
it as someone in being your life literally for a
few hours and impact you for all the time, and
what they offered you, what they gave you, it's just
as significant as someone who you may have known for years.
And I think a lot about how you know, we
have all had to have had our idea of what
(44:38):
community looks like change over the past fyod. It's different,
been different for everyone, but in some capacity we've all
had to see like our lives and the people that
we see and and relate to, and how often we're
able to see people, We've all seen that change in
some way. So I wanted to offer this idea in
the book. And I call it a personal bibliography, and
(44:59):
it's that I keep for myself. I have a hardcover
journal where I just write down any time someone has
had some significant moment for me in my life, and
I just write it in that journal. Because if you're
looking in the back of a nonfiction book, they have
a bibliography. They have a bibliography of all the sources
(45:20):
that impact of that book. So when we think about
like the book of your life, there are people in
that bibliography, and some of those people you may have
only seen them a few times, or you may have
only heard them on a podcast or only read about
them in a book. Write them down, keep this this
this paper trail of wisdom in your life, of all
(45:41):
the people who have impacted you. And there's just a
lot of piece in that just being able to go
back and become that. So yeah, absolutely, I think that's
also a really great way to cultivate gratitude. Also because
they start to mind the moments and memories of your life.
You remember just how many interactions people, sometimes strangers, you
have to be grateful for. That was that was a
(46:03):
lesson I learned. This sounds so l a, but I
went to Burning Man for the person only time, right,
and some people it's some people go to Burning Man
and do god knows what and come back ride. Other
people go there and they have these transformative experiences. And
I decided to go and just try it and see
see what it was. But I was so um surprised
(46:28):
to realize that I did walk away with it with
this newfound understanding of what it means to be a stranger,
the power that a stranger can have in your life.
You know, you go to this desert, You're in the
middle of nowhere, there's no reception, You're you're cut off
from the world, even if you don't want to be.
And trust me, I did not want to be, especially
on day one and I ended up on this bike
(46:49):
and I was just riding through the playa, through the
desert dust, and I was lost. I was crying off
and on because I just felt overwhelmed by this weird world.
Um and I couldn't get in touch with my friends,
the camp that I was with and at a certain
point and I was still trying to control that situation, right,
So there was anxiety, there was a little bit of fear,
(47:11):
there was overwhelmed, there was anything but peace. And then
I realized, it doesn't matter what I do, how much
I cry, how many times I hit refresh on these
non existent bars on my phone. I don't have service,
so I just need to be where I am. And
so I put the phone away and I got on
my bike and I started riding around and I stumbled
(47:33):
into this little community, this little camp, and they said, hey,
how are you. We're so and so, and I said, oh,
I'm Zuri and they were like, are you hungry? And
I was like, I could eat. And so I pop
off my bike and they're like cooking up soup or
something in their little makeshift kitchen in the back of
a camper, and I'm talking to them and we're laughing
and we're exchanging stories about our lives outside of here,
(47:56):
and we had the most beautiful couple of hours. And
so I felt that that was a rare connection. I
felt very desperate to continue. And it was like, let's
hang out on the other side, let's be friends. When
we all get back to l A, let's dada. And
they gave off the energy of oh, she must be
new here, and I realized, and we exchange numbers and
(48:19):
we never talked again to be clear, but Um, after
about two or three interactions like that, UM in the desert,
I realized everyone doesn't have to come into your life
and stay to mean something to your point. Um, people
can come and they can go, and you can just
thank God, thank the universe, think that person for the moment,
(48:42):
for the memory, for the experience. And there was this
overwhelming sense of peace that washed over me the moment
I realized that because I was no longer trying to
control my experience, UM, the conversation, how long these people
stayed in my life, And so it was easier to
just be present in it because I wasn't trying to
(49:03):
figure out how to make the moment last. I was
in it. As long as it lasted and it was over,
I would just be grateful that it had happened. Oh
my goodness, I love that because as you were sharing
that story, it just made me think about how I'm like, oh,
that's kind of like the river thing. Like being still
by the river. It's like you don't have to travel
(49:24):
the full course of the river to embrace the flow
of it. Right there. It's like you can just stand
still and say, here's this flowing by me right now
is this beautiful experience, And I might not be able
to just follow it down, you know what, I might
just be able to stand here and embrace it for
what it is. Wow, that's just so beautiful. I love
(49:47):
that that river visual that that certainly will stick with me.
When we talk about peace, there are also important conversations
around the things, the people, the situations that rob us
of it or that may try to take it from us.
And in a digital world, it's a it's a double
(50:09):
edged sword because you know, careers are made there, right
you found vieral success, This one woman on Pinterest turned
into this beautiful a new chapter in your life and career.
And yet with your over two million followers, I can
only imagine the noise that you have to filter out sometimes,
the negativity or the trolls, because we all are dealing
(50:32):
with it in varying degrees, whether you have twenty followers
or twenty million, And that the crazy part is it
doesn't hurt any less unless you're intentional about not letting
those things in to get to you. How did you
keep your peace in the world of social media? Um,
so that it doesn't spill into your offline life? Oh, yeah,
that is such a good question, and you're absolutely right.
(50:55):
And I actually feel like it's it's gotten worse in
terms of, you know, trolls and negative comments. I went
from like not having really anything I post relatively neutral
stuff like you know, I'm posting deep poetry, but it's poetry,
you know, really like a target most of the time,
or like, oh my gosh, I hate this, you know,
(51:17):
don't post it. So there's a lot of stuff that
I just didn't have that experience, and that wasn't even
I wasn't even trying to, but I just didn't end
up having a lot of that. But I would say,
oh was this past here? And especially this year, it
is definitely cracked up without at poetry. It's open to interpretation.
Ways they are finding ways making like TikTok videos in
(51:42):
response saying I'm telling you it isn't. It is increased.
Its increased and I'm not a lot you know, I'm
human like it. It affects me. It's like, whoa this is?
I you know, I don't I'm gonna pay demanded side here,
(52:04):
I saw, I saw. I want to say I think
it was I may be saying her name is it
Toronto Burke, the founder of the Me Too movement Toronto.
I maybe um I saw her, she says only in
her commradar. Yes, yes, she said once in her comments
(52:25):
manage ourselves in these comments. And I was like, I'm
going to keep that because it gives that way. I mean,
the infighting, the like back and forth, it's just like, whoa,
this is even for healthy debate, Like this is not sustainable,
Like it's not sustainable to just go back and forth
and back and forth all the time. And for me,
(52:46):
the biggest way that I have to deal with it
is just communicate that to people. Like I've had people
who have wanted to be like, well, I need you
to and to me on this and that, and I'm
just like I don't have the capacity for that. I
don't have the capacity for it. I was bound with
the capacity for it. Yeah, the boundaries are so serious.
(53:07):
And you know I will say too, it's it's also
you know, one thing I talk about, I'm like, practicing
piece is not about staying quiet. I Mean there are
times where I'm like, no, I'm going to address this.
I'm going to say this, And I typically do that,
especially when when if someone's talking about like someone else.
Then I'm like, I'm nope, I'm not going to tolerate that.
(53:30):
You know, I'm I've got the older sister thing. I'm like,
I'm no, I'm not going to tolerate that because you're
seeing very peaceful, very very woosa. But I'm like you yeah, sometimes,
I mean sometimes I do exeriously. It's me and again,
me and my sister in each other's top eight, like
(53:50):
we were doing that since you know, two thousands that
was timas Facebook. There's yeah, it was a time where
you know, like not too long. Again, it's increasing. My
sister just posted like the most neutral thing about her
life and someone just came for talking about her body,
(54:12):
and oh, I let him have it. I was just like,
you know, this is not going to happen, Like you're
not going to speak to my sister that way or
anybody that way. But I'm like, I saw it and
I let them know that was out of line, and
they don't their comment. Yeah there, um, It's it's hard
to manage that sometimes because they're I don't know, you know,
(54:34):
I don't know if other people feel this way, but
sometimes you know, if you feel yourself reacting to something
like you might be like, oh no, I don't want
to like succumb to the trolls. But it's not always trolls,
Like sometimes it's literally people who are just crossing the line.
And sometimes yeah, the best thing to do might be
to respond and maybe have like a you know, a
(54:56):
comment respond buddy that you can just text texted to
first and say. By the way, sometimes they're like, I'm like,
what do you think about this? Especially might be a
little too light. I really do think that's helpful. I
really do think that self. Well, I can't. I can't
ask my husband though, because he's one. He's like, yeah, yeah,
(55:16):
tell him you better time. I'm like, you don't even
use Instagram. You're not going to be here for the
fallout when I gotta go. But okay, okay, Well that
that is certainly be the boundaries when it comes to
protecting your piece online, offline, just period. Um. You know
(55:40):
where we talk a lot about mental health and mental
wellness on this on this podcast, on this show, um
and burnout, something that we've already touched on is such
a big part of dwindling mental health. That is the
biggest thing for me, that is that will be the
struggle of my life as a as a very ambitious person,
as an overachieved or I don't think that will ever
(56:01):
stop being who I am, but I'm learning to manage it,
and I'm learning to recognize the warning signs when I'm
starting to get out of a healthy zone or when
my mental health is suffering. I'm curious to know for
you as a creative, when you experience burnout? Um, what
do you do to alleviate it? Um? And how do
(56:23):
you stay inspired to create? Um? When you kind of like,
do you ever feel the pressure to just turn it out,
turn it out, turn it out, which ironically takes away
your creativity? Yeah? Oh my goodness. Guess the burnout thing
is so real. And one thing I've just started to
ask myself and and look at on a daily basis
(56:45):
is recognizing that there's something I've internalized and I think
I think, I think a lot of it's probably just cultural.
Like I don't think it's like any one person who
made me feel this way, this cultural internalization of I
have been kind of conditioned to burn much brighter than
(57:07):
I need to. And maybe maybe my burnout is coming
from feeling like that kind of like that candle, like
I need to just I know that wax is slipping,
but I need to just slipper, but I need to
just keep keep that fling and keep that And I've
just been really experimenting even with giving less um of
(57:31):
myself and and just seeing what happens, because I think
for a very long time, and I've even start to
change how I write about this. Like I was all
about like give your all, give your all, give your all,
and I'm like, yeah, sometimes like absolutely, you got to
give your all times a million, but a lot of
times are being asked to do too much. Yeah, And
(57:53):
I've just been you know, when I go to respond
to an email, it's just like, how can I answer
this email? And one sentences of the two paragraphs that
I would write? And it is hard, But at the
same time, it's exciting because I see myself growing and
I see I'm like, God, it's gonna take inch by
(58:14):
inch just releasing myself from needing to do this everywhere
all the time. Like there are gonna be like when
I'm sitting in front of artwork and I'm making artwork, Yeah,
I'm giving like all of me and more to like
these paintings because I love it, like I love to
just get in there with the colors and the textures
and just but it's like I don't have to do
(58:36):
that in every area of my life. I don't have to.
It's like, just because people expect me to be inspiring artists,
it's like my emails don't have to be art It's
like I'm like, I don't have to you know, a
simple Hello, that's fine, Um, it's okay, it's or or
(59:01):
that's just not gonna work for me. How don't I stay?
I don't have to explain why it's not gonna work
for me. All those things take energy. All of those
even like saying no takes energy. So if you've had
to recognize, like I've got to work some nos into
my life that are just knows, not a no and
oh next time or no, because I it's like no,
(59:22):
it's just no. Yeah this sentence. It is so much
easier said than done, because Lord knows, I love a
comma behind it. No, I can't, I can't I have
it still hasn't done. No, I still don't think I've
done like a text no to a reconvert guy. No,
I'm getting ages just like are sweating thinking about anyway. Goodness, Yeah,
(59:48):
it is, it is. Yeah, I've gotten I've got the
I'm just really fully transparent. The only full sentence no
is so you know my business partner is my husband,
and he'll ask you like, hey, it's so, don't wants
to do this X, Y and Z. We've gotten good
at saying no. No, there's still some facial expressions like
(01:00:10):
a body of my timeue like you don't need to
say anything else, like don't give anybody to actually do this.
You already decided everybody needs at least one person that
they can just say no period to whether the partner
of best friend, it's m h its good. It's really incredible,
(01:00:30):
Like how how hard that is? So that's what I've
been practicing. I love that. I love that. Um. Obviously
we've talked a lot about the book. If people want
to pick up a copy, dive deep into your world,
your artistry, where can they go to find you online
to maybe get a copy of Pieces of Practice too? Yeah,
(01:00:54):
So I am Morgan Harper Nichols pretty much everywhere, So
Morgan Harper, Nikeles dot com. It's exactly the same on
Instagram and TikTok and Pinterest and all the places. So yeah,
and then the book, it's it's on my website. So
there's just a little tab called book and you can
find it there. So yes, that's what do you Morrigan?
(01:01:16):
Hope that whoever is listening today understands about the necessity
for peace in their life. If there's anything that you
could leave us with, anything at all, what would you
tell us? What is your hope for us? Yes, so
you know I will I will end it on this
(01:01:38):
story because I think I'm all about the imagism, all
with the imagists. So you know, I struggle with parallel
parking always happen. And I remember growing up in Atlanta
trying to parallel park, and I would always get to
a point where I would get I'm like, okay, I'm
doing I'm getting in the spot, and then I would
do one little turn wrong or whatever, and now there's
(01:01:59):
a car behind me. Well I have anxiety, so I'm like, well,
now I gotta go all the way around the block
and try again because all these people are behind me.
Sometimes I would do that three or four times. I
would go around that block three or four times before
I even got in that spot. And I always hold
onto that image because I was like, you know what,
eventually I got in the spot. It took me way
(01:02:20):
longer that I wanted to it still a lot of gas,
a lot of time doing that, but eventually I got
in my parallel parking spot. So what I want to
do is I want to encourage everyone to think about
what is that that parallel parking spot for you right now?
Like what do you feel like you should be able
to get in that one and one time? You're like
(01:02:42):
I should be able to just take a deep breath
and just be fine with it, or I should just
be like, what is it that you just have to
keep circling back? You just have to keep circling back,
And how can you extend grace to yourself to keep
circling back, to keep trying again and again and again
until you find that piece. Do you find that that grace,
that compassion, whatever is that you have to keep circling
(01:03:04):
back to so and just keep on circling because eventually
you might hit the curb, you might bump up on
the curb into the spot. Okayly, I love it. I
love it well, Morgan, this has been an amazing conversation.
I've taken so much away from it, so I know
and know that our audience has too. So thank you
(01:03:25):
so much for sharing your time, your energy, your wisdom,
your artistry with us. Um I appreciate you. Thank you. Likewise,
I really enjoyed this, I really did. Thank you so much.
Happy Thank you again Morgan for joining me on Hot
Happy Mess. That was such a beautiful conversation. Oh I'm
(01:03:47):
just still floating. I hear her, her voice is so
soothing to write her voice, and I think about all
of the gems she dropped, and it's so appreciated and
it's so real, so that that conversation is still ring,
being true for me and still staying with me as
I as I moved through my days. So I hope
that it now will do the same for you as well. Morgan,
(01:04:08):
thank you so much again for joining me. And if
you're listening loved it, let me know what resonated with you.
The most words of affirmation keep team Hot Happy Mess going,
specifically words like this at I'm Laura says, this podcast
is so captivating and driven by topics with real substance.
I found my history with podcasts to be strenuous and
not finding something to really capture my attention as I
(01:04:31):
fulfill other tasks. But this isn't that. This makes me
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I love you. I wish you a wonderful day, a
(01:05:16):
wonderful week. Let's keep finding our magic in the middle
of life's messes. Let's banish that burnout while we live
our best lives and remember that peace begins with me,
Peace begins with you, Peace begins within Okay, I'll see
you on the other side. New episodes on Wednesday. You
can follow me at Zuri Hall or at Hot Happy
Mess on Instagram and I'll talk to you next week. Audio,
(01:05:39):
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