November 10, 2025 • 19 mins
Gregg Rosenthal is joined by NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport to react to the New York Giants firing Head Coach Brian Daboll. The guys discuss want went into the decision (0:10), what could be next for General Manager Joe Schoen (06:15) and what to expect from interim Head Coach Mike Kafka (14:00). Plus, Joe Burrow is back on the practice field (16:10)!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome to NFL Daily, where fourth and goal at the
half yard line is an automatic go for us forever.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I am Greg Rosendal.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am here in my garage for a surprise podcast.
It's not an emergency podcast. There's no emergency happening here,
but there is some news. New York Giants have fired
Brian Dabole on Monday morning, and we are joined by
none other than NFL Network Grand puba insider, Ian Rappaport
(00:34):
to help us break down the news.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Ian, where you surprise that it happened?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Now?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I was not surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Now.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
I would say, you know, once the questions start, there's
really only two ways to handle it, right, And I
think everyone you look on the field, you can hear
all the stuff, but really the product is what it
is on the field, right. And so we've there's been
rumors about Brian Dabele and a potential firing for quite
a while, and then you see how the player react.
And it was another lead, it was another game that
(01:03):
they had in hand on the road, and then it
was another inexplicable collapse.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Plus Jackson Dark got hurt.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
So I think this is the kind of thing that
you know, for me, was on my radar all morning,
knowing that for sure it could be a possibility. It
makes sense, and I think once you know, look, no
one wants to do this during the season, right, It
doesn't doesn't help. It only makes the season just a
lost season. Nobody wants to do it during the season.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
But once you know that you're going to fire him,
just do it, right. I mean, just there's timing.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Is always bad, everything's always bad. Just make it clean,
break and move on. So yeah, I mean, I would
say it was not a surprise. And unfortunately, because Brian
Davie was a really good guy, probably what was necessary.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
He chose to kick a field goal. Like like I mentioned,
it was fourth and goal at the one. They were
up seven in the fourth quarter. We talked about it
in a recapture. It's just a sad way to go out. Unfortunately,
their defense had been struggling overall, but they had had
a great game through three quarters. They get a penalty
on that potential field goal, they hit the field goal,
(02:17):
and they decide not to take the penalty would have
been from the half yard line, and then they blow
the lead in a few days later, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I did notice a beat writer.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I think it was Pat Leonard, excuse me if I'm wrong, said,
you know, one of the things that could get Dable
fired before the bye week, let's say, because they have
three tough games before their bye week, was getting Jackson
Dart hurt. And I do wonder if the four concussion
tests that he has done in his brief time as
a starter and then being ruled out with a concussion
(02:44):
in this game after running again and again and taking
some big hits, some of that is on Dart not
protecting himself, but some of that is on Dable. How
do you think like the Jackson Dart equation played into
this because you know, one thing I think people said
to make the case for DA balls, you don't want
to take away Jackson starts, you know, coach when he's
good with quarterbacks and he's off to a good start.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
In his career. How do you think that worked out
when when making this decision.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, I mean I don't think Brian Dayball got Jackson
Dart hurt.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I think he got hurt because football is a violent
game and people unfortunately sometimes get hurt. I mean, there's
been plenty of really good coaches who have not been
able to get quarterbacks to slide instead of Harm's way.
I don't know that that's Brian Dayball's fault and.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I don't know that.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
I mean whether or not Jackson Darts starts the next game, Like,
to me, that wouldn't change the trajectory of the Giant season.
Like there's been so many games that have followed the
same script that it's like, what could I have seen?
You know, what could I have seen that would make
me say, like, all right, well now because he got
(03:54):
Dart injured, therefore fire him. It's like, no, you know, look,
the development of quarterback is always the most important. And yes,
Jackson Dart has looked very good in Brian dabols system.
We are going to see what he looks like with
Mike Kafka, because this is a little bit of a
tryout to challenge, but a little bit of a try
it And I'm sure Kafka will get interviews. Interim coaches
(04:16):
always get interviews, and you know, we'll kind of see
what he looks like in the same system with a
different head coach. I would also say that, you know,
as we look at this thing, I mean, you have
you know, obviously the Titans and Giants is the only
job that's open. There's a couple other possibilities in Miami
who seem but a lot better this week. That's a possibility.
There's some other possibilities. But this is a really good job.
(04:40):
I mean, Jackson Dart is someone who with the right
coach and system and you know, infrastructure around him, has
proven that he can be a guy.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
And so if you're you know, a young.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Head coach, a retread head coach who wants another shot,
really anyone like this, this would be a job you
want because you don't have to search for a quarterback.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
You have a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's a great call in terms of Jackson Dart is
such a great starting point. Like in that game yesterday
in particular, although he's looked good overall, I was really impressed.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And it's not just his running ability.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And I do think you can get on Dable a
little bit for running like QB power a few times
it's like they're building their offense around him running the
ball quite a bit. But he did more things throwing
the ball in that game and has looked better than
I would have ever expected. In to buttress your point, Ian,
there's a great word Buttress, got Jackson Dart, got a
(05:39):
top five NFL left tackle in Andrew Thomas. You have
Malik Neighbors coming off of an injury next year, But
you have Milik Neighbors, and you have a defensive line
where Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, and Abdul Carter are all
signed through at least twenty twenty seven. You even have
Caven Thibodeau next year still too. For a renovation project,
(06:01):
that's pretty good, especially because of Dark Now, I will
put to you I have my own opinions on this,
but I'm cure curious if you have a feeling of
how the Giants want to operate. Do you think it's
gonna be a full rebuild with a new front office
helping to choose a new head coach, or do you
think Joe Shane, who was brought in at the same
(06:23):
time as Brian Dable, could potentially survive this or even
as likely to survive this and still be running the
team in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, there's been no changes other than Brian Dabel.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Now.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Historically, when you have a major move, it's either one
or both. It's rarely we did see you do see
it sometimes we saw it with Jacksonville last year and
what I would consider to be extenuating circumstances. But almost
always the changes happen and then it's about the next
it's about moving on, it's about fixing and all that. So,
(06:58):
you know, I'd be surprised if that was the case.
I'd be surprised if they made a change a general manager.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You know, they didn't.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
They didn't come in as a package deal, but essentially
they did come in together. You know, I would say,
allowing a GM to make more than one coaching hire
is what most organizations do. Like rarely you bring in
a guy, you package them together, and then you say,
all right, you're done. You don't get the chance to
hire a head coach, so generally you do. I would
(07:27):
also say, you know, as a GM, like really what
you want to do, it's not just about collecting talent,
because I think that's important.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
That's not the job. It's building a team.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
And I would say at least what Joe Shane has
done is built enough talent to win. It has not
been a cohesive team, so like they have not been
you know, they have not won a lot of games,
but the people have spoken with like that defense should
be a lot better.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
They got a lot of talent on the defense.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
I know there was a lot of discussion about moving
on from their defensive coordinator this past offseason. I know
Brian Dable didn't want to do it, and they ended
up not doing it. Would they be better with a
different DC, I think possibly, But to the based on
the people have spoke with, they believe there was more
than enough talent on that roster to win, certainly more
(08:20):
than enough talent to be two and eight.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
It's really interesting having gotten a peek into the Giants
front office with that hard knocks, and I don't think
personally Joe Shane came off incredible in that, not just
in terms of the decisions letting Xavier McKinney and Saquon Barkley,
but just you weren't watching that and feel like you
were seeing you know, nineteen sixties Red hourback or anything
(08:42):
like that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And since since janior.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
I would say let me just interrupt to I would
just say those conversation like that feel was pretty normal, Like.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
That's what it sounds like, you know, Like yes, I
mean I.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Heard from some people in the league that we're kind
of like these are the conversations. We're glad we're we're
competing against these guys.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't get that, And I talked
to a lot of gms.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You talked to a lot more than me.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Let's be ir Yeah, so I didn't get that.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Now, the decisions, like Saquon went on to be an
MVP candidate, would he have been a candidate with the Giants?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Like, I don't think so.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
The offensive line's a lot worse, like they spent the
money elsewhere, Like there are different arguments to be made,
but I don't think that, Like the hard knocks maybe
looked bad to the public because you let Seguon go
and then he plays so great, But I don't get
the sense that really altered Joe Shane's actual job status.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
No, I hear that to me.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Sometimes it was more about just like when they were
talking about Brian Burns and you know they pop in
there like, hey, he had a lot. You know, they're
like counting up the quarterback hits and stuff, and just like,
isn't there didn't there something more there here? I'll just
give you some record, some numbers though. Okay, you mentioned
the four double digit losses on the road this year,
which is crazy. Yeah, Dables, Giants have crazy, by the way,
been just crazy. Really bad luck too, but also just crazy.
(10:07):
Twenty ninth in scoring since he arrived. Since the day
they went to Philadelphia Ian for the divisional round of
the playoffs in January of twenty twenty three, not that
long ago, the Giants have gone eleven and thirty four
since they hired Brian Dable and Joe Shane. They have
the fourth worst record in football. Since they won the
(10:29):
Super Bowl against the Patriots, they have won the third
least amount of games, So Giants are thirtieth, Browns and
Jets are two wins behind. And if you break it down,
if you start like since they fired Coughlin's second worst
since McAdoo, fourth worst since Shermer, second worst since Judge,
fourth worst, like, they have consistently been a bottom five franchise.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Which is crazy to say.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Has felt like that, I guess so, but it's just
like you, the Giants ownership has been getting a lot
of I think, benefit of the doubt for a long
time for being good ownership because of what happened, you know,
before the last twelve years. But the reality is they
have not made a good decision, And personally, I do
think it's cleaner when you have a full teardown and
(11:13):
the GM and the coach are starting at the same time.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But we'll see if you tend to think that, yeah,
we'll do that.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Yeah, I don't, And I also am not sure that's true.
And the reason why I would say that is because
it's a hard job and at the beginning a lot
of people are not good at It's just it's really hard.
Like I'll give you another example. The Commander's right, great
offseason last year. Everything that Adam Peters did work right.
(11:39):
I mean they had the second pick of quarterback. Now
both them, you know, Caleb Williams and Jane Danels are
both looking good now, but they had the second pick
of quarterback. And every every veteran that Adam Peters brought
in worked and they went deep into the playoffs. This year,
everything has been bad the whole every move. It seems
like veterans are looking lower. Some of the high price
(12:01):
additions they made have not worked. Like, now, does that
mean Adam Peters as bad as No, It's like these
are hard jobs, these are huge decisions, and people make
mistakes and I think the only way to really get
better unless you just have a Ferrari that you just
get behind the wheel of and you're like ready to roll,
(12:22):
you know, which there's a couple of those.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
They're really hard. And my sense is, considering.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
That he's built a ton of team with a lot
of talent, and considering he has the experience of making
mistakes over the last three years, it feels like they
will be better off with Joe Shane as GM than
you know, someone else who does not have this experience,
because historically there's almost no retread GMS.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, and I think look, if you look at some
of the drafts there with them, they've had been pretty
big swings and missus too. They had Evan Neil was
their first draft pick in the MIDI. They had Deonday Banks,
which is a pretty big miss. Last year's class which
looked really good last year looks solid. But you know,
Tyler Newbin, Drew who is it in the back end,
(13:12):
Drew Phillips.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
You know, they've they've been okay, like Neighbors. You know,
injuries happen, but Neighbors doesn't get injured. That's looking like
a win. So it's like there's it's like it's like,
you know, not everyone can be like like the Browns
draft class they are like all going to be good
this year.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Like that's you know, like they can't all be like that.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
But anyway, my general argument, not just as it pertains
to Joe Shane, is unless it's like two systems clashing
where the guys a total jerk and a head coach
refuses to work with him, which is not the case here,
I think they'll be better off having a GM.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Who's been through it.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
He's put enough talent on the field and will work
with the next head coach that he will help high
That is my general thought.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Mike Kafka and yeah, you mentioned I should have, but
you know you're the real newsman. I should have mentioned
it right off the top of Mike Kafka is the
interim head coach. They did not fire Shane Bowen, who's
their defensive coordinator, and Kafka's gotten a lot of head
coaching interviews over the last three or four years. He
had his time in Kansas City with Patrick Mahomes. It
(14:18):
could be interesting to see what he does because the
number one thing I would think they're looking for out
of a head coach is who can maximize Jackson Dart.
And that's why I do compare it a little bit
to the Drake May situation a year ago. I think
Drake May physically was more obviously going to be a dude.
That's my own personal bias. I thought that before the
Patriots took him. But Jackson Dart has played to a
(14:39):
level where he looks like a dude as well, So
everything should be about maximizing Jackson Dart will rap at
least on the Giants just with do you think if
he has a realistic chance to maybe be the dude Mike.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Kafka, Uh yeah, I kind of do.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
And it's been interesting because, like, on one hand, he's
Brian Dables guy they able hired him, but he's not
only Brian Daboles guy. He's been in a lot of
different places. He is a good enough leader, he has
you know, sort of done it, like the league has
done a good job of putting guys in position to lead,
Like he's done the Senior Bowl, you know, and like
(15:15):
coach to the Senior Bowl, like and from what I
was told, got pretty good reviews doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So like I think he does have a chance.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Now, it'd be a surprise because it almost never happens.
But like he's well, he's he's well thought of as
a as a off it'sive coordinator. He has had head
coach interviews. I think in particular in Seattle he did
really well. Didn't get it, but did well. So I
(15:45):
do think he has a chance and probably you know,
probably should.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Mm before I let you go, since you're here. It's
been a while.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
By the way, if you go back to like the
early NFL daily days, I mean rap sheet was on
there all the time. But now now he's on NFL Network.
You he's always always been on a villa. He's on
pass back of fee probably right now.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I always come on when I always come on when
I'm asked.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You really do you're the man you broke the news that,
or at least you were the first one I saw
that Joe Burrow is back at practice this week.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Is there is there.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Anything to I mean, it's November tenth, Uh they started
his activation. That even if he joins the team and
plays at the end of that activation, which I would
think is possible, that's earlier than I expected. What what
can you tell us about Joe Burrow before you go
off into wherever the insiders hide during the day.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, pretty cool news, I have to say.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
For the Cincinnati Bengals, you know, it's it really I'm
not there and they're about to go on the practice
field in a couple of minutes as we're taping this now.
But you know, you talk about a dude like that,
guy's a dude, and for him to be out on
the practice field like that is going to give them
the kind of balance that you can't manufacture.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Manufacture.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
They have been you know, they've won some games. They're
not out of it, are I think three and six.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Right, isn't that the record?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Three and three and six?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yes, this week, if they can, you know, come out
and play well enough, maybe win a game or two,
God forbid, they go two and one over the next
three games, Like Joe Burrow could be back with a
chance to help this team get to the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Like it's crazy, but it's not that crazy.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
And like I would also say this three and six,
like you, it's uphill battle, but you got a chance.
I think he would probably be back almost anyway, Like
I just I don't know that it was ever a decision.
I think it was like, as soon as I can
come back, I'm coming back.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
And that is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, by by all accounts, in terms of how they
run the offense, maybe even how they're deciding to sign people.
I mean, he's kind of the boss and he should be.
I mean, he's the most important person in the organization
and if he wants to play, they're not gonna stop.
You don't think there's any chance of like him playing Sunday?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Do you not?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Sunday? Now? I have to look at the schedule.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It's the Patriots the week after the problem is and.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
It makes Sunday Sunday.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, They're all Sundays coming up, and then a Thursday,
sorry on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
That would be interesting. Wait a minutes Thanksgiving night. I
mean that's how many days eighteen days from now? Yes, possible,
That's crazy and possible.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It kind of breaks my heart though, that they blew
the Jets game and the Bears game because Wacko played
so well, and if they had just won one of
those two, hell, if they had won both those, they'd
be five and four and Joe Burrow coming back in
a few weeks.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Like they could afford to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Because their schedule gets tougher now and it really it
bums me out that they could be three and eight.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
But we'll see because you know, he comes back again.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Like say they go two and one. So let's say
they're five and seven.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Sure, five and seconds nut scenario.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, you got a chance, but you're also playing the Steelers,
the Patriots, the Ravens, the Bills, the Ravens in the
next five weeks. So they kind of just got through
the easy part of their schedule. Unfortunately they got some
tough ones, but they could take out Pittsburgh. Appreciate you
making the time on a busy day.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Ian. You're more than just an insider.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
You're a man, you're a husband, you're a father, and
you're a friend.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
We've known each other a long time.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Now we know each other a long time.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
We've been through a lot. I appreciate you and we
will be back tonight. By the way, this is a
surprise episode, so we would back join us YouTube live
after Eagles and Packers.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Me and Pick Shook. We will see you the
Welcome to NFL Daily, where fourth and goal at the
half yard line is an automatic go for us forever.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I am Greg Rosendal.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
I am here in my garage for a surprise podcast.
It's not an emergency podcast. There's no emergency happening here,
but there is some news. New York Giants have fired
Brian Dabole on Monday morning, and we are joined by
none other than NFL Network Grand puba insider, Ian Rappaport
(00:34):
to help us break down the news.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Ian, where you surprise that it happened?
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Now?
Speaker 4 (00:40):
I was not surprised.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Now.
Speaker 5 (00:41):
I would say, you know, once the questions start, there's
really only two ways to handle it, right, And I
think everyone you look on the field, you can hear
all the stuff, but really the product is what it
is on the field, right. And so we've there's been
rumors about Brian Dabele and a potential firing for quite
a while, and then you see how the player react.
And it was another lead, it was another game that
(01:03):
they had in hand on the road, and then it
was another inexplicable collapse.
Speaker 4 (01:07):
Plus Jackson Dark got hurt.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
So I think this is the kind of thing that
you know, for me, was on my radar all morning,
knowing that for sure it could be a possibility. It
makes sense, and I think once you know, look, no
one wants to do this during the season, right, It
doesn't doesn't help. It only makes the season just a
lost season. Nobody wants to do it during the season.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
But once you know that you're going to fire him,
just do it, right. I mean, just there's timing.
Speaker 5 (01:37):
Is always bad, everything's always bad. Just make it clean,
break and move on. So yeah, I mean, I would
say it was not a surprise. And unfortunately, because Brian
Davie was a really good guy, probably what was necessary.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
He chose to kick a field goal. Like like I mentioned,
it was fourth and goal at the one. They were
up seven in the fourth quarter. We talked about it
in a recapture. It's just a sad way to go out. Unfortunately,
their defense had been struggling overall, but they had had
a great game through three quarters. They get a penalty
on that potential field goal, they hit the field goal,
(02:17):
and they decide not to take the penalty would have
been from the half yard line, and then they blow
the lead in a few days later, it's gone.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I did notice a beat writer.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
I think it was Pat Leonard, excuse me if I'm wrong, said,
you know, one of the things that could get Dable
fired before the bye week, let's say, because they have
three tough games before their bye week, was getting Jackson
Dart hurt. And I do wonder if the four concussion
tests that he has done in his brief time as
a starter and then being ruled out with a concussion
(02:44):
in this game after running again and again and taking
some big hits, some of that is on Dart not
protecting himself, but some of that is on Dable. How
do you think like the Jackson Dart equation played into
this because you know, one thing I think people said
to make the case for DA balls, you don't want
to take away Jackson starts, you know, coach when he's
good with quarterbacks and he's off to a good start.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
In his career. How do you think that worked out
when when making this decision.
Speaker 4 (03:10):
Yeah, I mean I don't think Brian Dayball got Jackson
Dart hurt.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
I think he got hurt because football is a violent
game and people unfortunately sometimes get hurt. I mean, there's
been plenty of really good coaches who have not been
able to get quarterbacks to slide instead of Harm's way.
I don't know that that's Brian Dayball's fault and.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I don't know that.
Speaker 5 (03:32):
I mean whether or not Jackson Darts starts the next game, Like,
to me, that wouldn't change the trajectory of the Giant season.
Like there's been so many games that have followed the
same script that it's like, what could I have seen?
You know, what could I have seen that would make
me say, like, all right, well now because he got
(03:54):
Dart injured, therefore fire him. It's like, no, you know, look,
the development of quarterback is always the most important. And yes,
Jackson Dart has looked very good in Brian dabols system.
We are going to see what he looks like with
Mike Kafka, because this is a little bit of a
tryout to challenge, but a little bit of a try
it And I'm sure Kafka will get interviews. Interim coaches
(04:16):
always get interviews, and you know, we'll kind of see
what he looks like in the same system with a
different head coach. I would also say that, you know,
as we look at this thing, I mean, you have
you know, obviously the Titans and Giants is the only
job that's open. There's a couple other possibilities in Miami
who seem but a lot better this week. That's a possibility.
There's some other possibilities. But this is a really good job.
(04:40):
I mean, Jackson Dart is someone who with the right
coach and system and you know, infrastructure around him, has
proven that he can be a guy.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
And so if you're you know, a young.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Head coach, a retread head coach who wants another shot,
really anyone like this, this would be a job you
want because you don't have to search for a quarterback.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
You have a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
It's a great call in terms of Jackson Dart is
such a great starting point. Like in that game yesterday
in particular, although he's looked good overall, I was really impressed.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
And it's not just his running ability.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
And I do think you can get on Dable a
little bit for running like QB power a few times
it's like they're building their offense around him running the
ball quite a bit. But he did more things throwing
the ball in that game and has looked better than
I would have ever expected. In to buttress your point, Ian,
there's a great word Buttress, got Jackson Dart, got a
(05:39):
top five NFL left tackle in Andrew Thomas. You have
Malik Neighbors coming off of an injury next year, But
you have Milik Neighbors, and you have a defensive line
where Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, and Abdul Carter are all
signed through at least twenty twenty seven. You even have
Caven Thibodeau next year still too. For a renovation project,
(06:01):
that's pretty good, especially because of Dark Now, I will
put to you I have my own opinions on this,
but I'm cure curious if you have a feeling of
how the Giants want to operate. Do you think it's
gonna be a full rebuild with a new front office
helping to choose a new head coach, or do you
think Joe Shane, who was brought in at the same
(06:23):
time as Brian Dable, could potentially survive this or even
as likely to survive this and still be running the
team in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Well, there's been no changes other than Brian Dabel.
Speaker 6 (06:36):
Now.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
Historically, when you have a major move, it's either one
or both. It's rarely we did see you do see
it sometimes we saw it with Jacksonville last year and
what I would consider to be extenuating circumstances. But almost
always the changes happen and then it's about the next
it's about moving on, it's about fixing and all that. So,
(06:58):
you know, I'd be surprised if that was the case.
I'd be surprised if they made a change a general manager.
Speaker 4 (07:05):
You know, they didn't.
Speaker 5 (07:06):
They didn't come in as a package deal, but essentially
they did come in together. You know, I would say,
allowing a GM to make more than one coaching hire
is what most organizations do. Like rarely you bring in
a guy, you package them together, and then you say,
all right, you're done. You don't get the chance to
hire a head coach, so generally you do. I would
(07:27):
also say, you know, as a GM, like really what
you want to do, it's not just about collecting talent,
because I think that's important.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
That's not the job. It's building a team.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
And I would say at least what Joe Shane has
done is built enough talent to win. It has not
been a cohesive team, so like they have not been
you know, they have not won a lot of games,
but the people have spoken with like that defense should
be a lot better.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
They got a lot of talent on the defense.
Speaker 5 (07:58):
I know there was a lot of discussion about moving
on from their defensive coordinator this past offseason. I know
Brian Dable didn't want to do it, and they ended
up not doing it. Would they be better with a
different DC, I think possibly, But to the based on
the people have spoke with, they believe there was more
than enough talent on that roster to win, certainly more
(08:20):
than enough talent to be two and eight.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
It's really interesting having gotten a peek into the Giants
front office with that hard knocks, and I don't think
personally Joe Shane came off incredible in that, not just
in terms of the decisions letting Xavier McKinney and Saquon Barkley,
but just you weren't watching that and feel like you
were seeing you know, nineteen sixties Red hourback or anything
(08:42):
like that.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
And since since janior.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
I would say let me just interrupt to I would
just say those conversation like that feel was pretty normal, Like.
Speaker 4 (08:54):
That's what it sounds like, you know, Like yes, I
mean I.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Heard from some people in the league that we're kind
of like these are the conversations. We're glad we're we're
competing against these guys.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't get that, And I talked
to a lot of gms.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
You talked to a lot more than me.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Let's be ir Yeah, so I didn't get that.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
Now, the decisions, like Saquon went on to be an
MVP candidate, would he have been a candidate with the Giants?
Speaker 4 (09:20):
Like, I don't think so.
Speaker 5 (09:21):
The offensive line's a lot worse, like they spent the
money elsewhere, Like there are different arguments to be made,
but I don't think that, Like the hard knocks maybe
looked bad to the public because you let Seguon go
and then he plays so great, But I don't get
the sense that really altered Joe Shane's actual job status.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
No, I hear that to me.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Sometimes it was more about just like when they were
talking about Brian Burns and you know they pop in
there like, hey, he had a lot. You know, they're
like counting up the quarterback hits and stuff, and just like,
isn't there didn't there something more there here? I'll just
give you some record, some numbers though. Okay, you mentioned
the four double digit losses on the road this year,
which is crazy. Yeah, Dables, Giants have crazy, by the way,
been just crazy. Really bad luck too, but also just crazy.
(10:07):
Twenty ninth in scoring since he arrived. Since the day
they went to Philadelphia Ian for the divisional round of
the playoffs in January of twenty twenty three, not that
long ago, the Giants have gone eleven and thirty four
since they hired Brian Dable and Joe Shane. They have
the fourth worst record in football. Since they won the
(10:29):
Super Bowl against the Patriots, they have won the third
least amount of games, So Giants are thirtieth, Browns and
Jets are two wins behind. And if you break it down,
if you start like since they fired Coughlin's second worst
since McAdoo, fourth worst since Shermer, second worst since Judge,
fourth worst, like, they have consistently been a bottom five franchise.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Which is crazy to say.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Has felt like that, I guess so, but it's just
like you, the Giants ownership has been getting a lot
of I think, benefit of the doubt for a long
time for being good ownership because of what happened, you know,
before the last twelve years. But the reality is they
have not made a good decision, And personally, I do
think it's cleaner when you have a full teardown and
(11:13):
the GM and the coach are starting at the same time.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
But we'll see if you tend to think that, yeah,
we'll do that.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Yeah, I don't, And I also am not sure that's true.
And the reason why I would say that is because
it's a hard job and at the beginning a lot
of people are not good at It's just it's really hard.
Like I'll give you another example. The Commander's right, great
offseason last year. Everything that Adam Peters did work right.
(11:39):
I mean they had the second pick of quarterback. Now
both them, you know, Caleb Williams and Jane Danels are
both looking good now, but they had the second pick
of quarterback. And every every veteran that Adam Peters brought
in worked and they went deep into the playoffs. This year,
everything has been bad the whole every move. It seems
like veterans are looking lower. Some of the high price
(12:01):
additions they made have not worked. Like, now, does that
mean Adam Peters as bad as No, It's like these
are hard jobs, these are huge decisions, and people make
mistakes and I think the only way to really get
better unless you just have a Ferrari that you just
get behind the wheel of and you're like ready to roll,
(12:22):
you know, which there's a couple of those.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
They're really hard. And my sense is, considering.
Speaker 5 (12:30):
That he's built a ton of team with a lot
of talent, and considering he has the experience of making
mistakes over the last three years, it feels like they
will be better off with Joe Shane as GM than
you know, someone else who does not have this experience,
because historically there's almost no retread GMS.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Yeah, and I think look, if you look at some
of the drafts there with them, they've had been pretty
big swings and missus too. They had Evan Neil was
their first draft pick in the MIDI. They had Deonday Banks,
which is a pretty big miss. Last year's class which
looked really good last year looks solid. But you know,
Tyler Newbin, Drew who is it in the back end,
(13:12):
Drew Phillips.
Speaker 5 (13:13):
You know, they've they've been okay, like Neighbors. You know,
injuries happen, but Neighbors doesn't get injured. That's looking like
a win. So it's like there's it's like it's like,
you know, not everyone can be like like the Browns
draft class they are like all going to be good
this year.
Speaker 4 (13:28):
Like that's you know, like they can't all be like that.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
But anyway, my general argument, not just as it pertains
to Joe Shane, is unless it's like two systems clashing
where the guys a total jerk and a head coach
refuses to work with him, which is not the case here,
I think they'll be better off having a GM.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Who's been through it.
Speaker 5 (13:52):
He's put enough talent on the field and will work
with the next head coach that he will help high
That is my general thought.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
Mike Kafka and yeah, you mentioned I should have, but
you know you're the real newsman. I should have mentioned
it right off the top of Mike Kafka is the
interim head coach. They did not fire Shane Bowen, who's
their defensive coordinator, and Kafka's gotten a lot of head
coaching interviews over the last three or four years. He
had his time in Kansas City with Patrick Mahomes. It
(14:18):
could be interesting to see what he does because the
number one thing I would think they're looking for out
of a head coach is who can maximize Jackson Dart.
And that's why I do compare it a little bit
to the Drake May situation a year ago. I think
Drake May physically was more obviously going to be a dude.
That's my own personal bias. I thought that before the
Patriots took him. But Jackson Dart has played to a
(14:39):
level where he looks like a dude as well, So
everything should be about maximizing Jackson Dart will rap at
least on the Giants just with do you think if
he has a realistic chance to maybe be the dude Mike.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Kafka, Uh yeah, I kind of do.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
And it's been interesting because, like, on one hand, he's
Brian Dables guy they able hired him, but he's not
only Brian Daboles guy. He's been in a lot of
different places. He is a good enough leader, he has
you know, sort of done it, like the league has
done a good job of putting guys in position to lead,
Like he's done the Senior Bowl, you know, and like
(15:15):
coach to the Senior Bowl, like and from what I
was told, got pretty good reviews doing it.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
So like I think he does have a chance.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
Now, it'd be a surprise because it almost never happens.
But like he's well, he's he's well thought of as
a as a off it'sive coordinator. He has had head
coach interviews. I think in particular in Seattle he did
really well. Didn't get it, but did well. So I
(15:45):
do think he has a chance and probably you know,
probably should.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Mm before I let you go, since you're here. It's
been a while.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
By the way, if you go back to like the
early NFL daily days, I mean rap sheet was on
there all the time. But now now he's on NFL Network.
You he's always always been on a villa. He's on
pass back of fee probably right now.
Speaker 4 (16:02):
I always come on when I always come on when
I'm asked.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
You really do you're the man you broke the news that,
or at least you were the first one I saw
that Joe Burrow is back at practice this week.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Is there is there.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Anything to I mean, it's November tenth, Uh they started
his activation. That even if he joins the team and
plays at the end of that activation, which I would
think is possible, that's earlier than I expected. What what
can you tell us about Joe Burrow before you go
off into wherever the insiders hide during the day.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
Yeah, pretty cool news, I have to say.
Speaker 5 (16:35):
For the Cincinnati Bengals, you know, it's it really I'm
not there and they're about to go on the practice
field in a couple of minutes as we're taping this now.
But you know, you talk about a dude like that,
guy's a dude, and for him to be out on
the practice field like that is going to give them
the kind of balance that you can't manufacture.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Manufacture.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
They have been you know, they've won some games. They're
not out of it, are I think three and six.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Right, isn't that the record?
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Three and three and six?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Yes, this week, if they can, you know, come out
and play well enough, maybe win a game or two,
God forbid, they go two and one over the next
three games, Like Joe Burrow could be back with a
chance to help this team get to the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Like it's crazy, but it's not that crazy.
Speaker 5 (17:21):
And like I would also say this three and six,
like you, it's uphill battle, but you got a chance.
I think he would probably be back almost anyway, Like
I just I don't know that it was ever a decision.
I think it was like, as soon as I can
come back, I'm coming back.
Speaker 4 (17:40):
And that is pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, by by all accounts, in terms of how they
run the offense, maybe even how they're deciding to sign people.
I mean, he's kind of the boss and he should be.
I mean, he's the most important person in the organization
and if he wants to play, they're not gonna stop.
You don't think there's any chance of like him playing Sunday?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Do you not?
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Sunday? Now? I have to look at the schedule.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
It's the Patriots the week after the problem is and.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
It makes Sunday Sunday.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yeah, They're all Sundays coming up, and then a Thursday,
sorry on Thanksgiving.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
That would be interesting. Wait a minutes Thanksgiving night. I
mean that's how many days eighteen days from now? Yes, possible,
That's crazy and possible.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
It kind of breaks my heart though, that they blew
the Jets game and the Bears game because Wacko played
so well, and if they had just won one of
those two, hell, if they had won both those, they'd
be five and four and Joe Burrow coming back in
a few weeks.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Like they could afford to lose.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
Because their schedule gets tougher now and it really it
bums me out that they could be three and eight.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
But we'll see because you know, he comes back again.
Speaker 5 (18:52):
Like say they go two and one. So let's say
they're five and seven.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Sure, five and seconds nut scenario.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, you got a chance, but you're also playing the Steelers,
the Patriots, the Ravens, the Bills, the Ravens in the
next five weeks. So they kind of just got through
the easy part of their schedule. Unfortunately they got some
tough ones, but they could take out Pittsburgh. Appreciate you
making the time on a busy day.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Ian. You're more than just an insider.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
You're a man, you're a husband, you're a father, and
you're a friend.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
We've known each other a long time.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
Now we know each other a long time.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
We've been through a lot. I appreciate you and we
will be back tonight. By the way, this is a
surprise episode, so we would back join us YouTube live
after Eagles and Packers.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Me and Pick Shook. We will see you the
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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