November 14, 2025 • 38 mins
It was a good day to be a Drake Maye lover. After cruising to a win over the New York Jets on Week 11's Thursday Night Football, the New England Patriots became the favorite for the No. 1 seed in the AFC with a league-leading ninth win. Drake Maye looked incredible, TreVeyon Henderson had three touchdowns, and the Jets looked like the Jets. Gregg Rosenthal and Nick Shook recap the game, then re-draft the 2024 QB draft class, comprised in part by Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, Drake Maye, Michael Penix, Bo Nix and J.J. McCarthy.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
A whole long.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Drake's trying to move to make plays.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Snapped to May looks to his left, he pumps, He throws.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Culton in the touchdown Patriots and who caught it? Trim
out Underson, Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hack Trim for the rookie.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm pledged, Bucks, I mean, I'm played fantasy football.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
But who's got thatten on it?
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Dan?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Three touchdowns? Snati your breaking records. He's gonna get another
one too, Tony. He's gonna get the ups out four times.
Oh but he didn't score for Scott Zolac taking.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
An l on the same night that his beloved Patriots
got a ninth w the first team in the NFL
Nick Schook to clinch a winning record for the twenty
twenty five season. Is the New England Patriots twenty seven
to fourteen? Yes, that was also Bob soci on wb
Z twenty seven fourteen. I think it's about accurate in
(00:53):
terms of how this game felt. The Jets were competitive,
but ultimately you never felt that the Patriots were going
to lose. All it took Nick was Rimandre Stevenson and
Treell Jennings getting hurt for Traveon Henderson to become that dude,
and he delivers with three scores on a night where
everyone got to enjoy the young Patriots players.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It's like I tweeted during the game, I'm old enough
to remember when Travion Henderson was barely even a part
of the game plan. Right now he's the star, the
central figure, at least when it comes to scoring touchdowns
for them. Tonight a classic Patriots performance, classic in the
new age of Patriots, with Drake May at the controls
and powering this offense and then Henderson finishing the drives
off with touchdowns. A different game than what we saw
(01:35):
against Tampa Bay last week, which is perfectly fine and
very encouraging for the Patriots, who won a short week,
come home and largely handle their division rivals in a
game in which they just needed to take care of business,
and once again, their quarterback puts together a fantastic performance.
Twenty five and thirty four might not look that great
to you, but I promising you there are so many
highlight throws from this game that are worth watching an
(01:55):
NFL plus, you got to go back and check it out.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Drake May had another great night.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I think that drops his completion percentage on the season,
which is nuts, and he doesn't top three hundred yards,
which he actually hasn't done yet as a pro. So
Mac Jones still the last Patriot to top three hundred
yards and yet as flashy as the Henderson touchdowns were,
and they were interesting for different reasons, the offensive line
did a good job on both of them, and we'll
(02:20):
listen to those later. Drake May's season is one of
the biggest stories in the NFL, not just that he's
that dude. And we're actually gonna do a little redraft
after we talk about this game, picking who we would
take out of the twenty twenty four QB draft class,
just like our top you know, six or seven if
(02:41):
we want to include Spencer Rattler in that mix, and
obviously May's gonna be at or near the top of
that depending on how you feel shook. But like he's
at the level where he's elevating the people around him.
It's not like the past protection has been great. Tonight,
I would say, considering the opponent, it was okay. It
was up and down, but it was okay. But it's
(03:02):
him handling the pressure and then elevating guys like Pop
Douglas and Mac Collins and Stefan Diggs even at the
later points of his career and making them look better.
What to you, it was kind of the most impressive
part of this performance by me.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Oh, Undoubtedly it was his ability to sit amid pressure
in a pocket that was ever changing, step up, effortlessly,
keep his eyes down the field, and hit precise throws
with such precision that I'm you know, on my couch
watching just going wow multiple times, just audibly saying wow.
There was a throw he had over the middle of
(03:38):
Stefon Diggs that Diggs dropped that as he took the throw,
I went, oh, no, you did it, Like just there's
no way you're making this attempt.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
He does it.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He steps up in the pocket and hits another receiver
with incredible precision. He does it to set up a touchdown,
like it's just to move the chains. There's one play
where he's rolling to the sideline it looks like he's
going to give up on any channels as inner Josh
Allen and just tosses a little soft one to Diggs
that the chains as well, like it's just no matter
the situation. He is so calm and poised for a
guy who is only in a second year, and you
(04:07):
combine that with the what I will say is elite accuracy,
and we've seen it, especially over the last couple of weeks,
and you've got a quarterback who can pretty much handle anything,
do everything, and propel your offense forward.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
And there will be more tests, and they continue to
pass these tests of taking care business against inferior competition,
which at this point it's fair to say not only
of the Jets are, but like next week's matchup against
the Bengals, like that's a game that the Patriot should win.
And so far they keep winning those games, and they
keep winning him by a couple of scores. But you're
so right that incompletion by the way to digs over
(04:39):
the middle, which at that point was the best throw
of the night, is a great reason to watch Prime
vision because you realize how just completely ballsy that throw was.
At that point he was eleven for eleven. That was
actually his first incompletion on the night. The push pass
to me was part of the drive that really showed
what Drake May is all about, and that was the
second drive of the third quarter. It's only a fourteen
to seven game, at that point. It starts with the
(05:02):
drive with a throw where he layers one in to
Hunter Henry like he has to go over the underneath defender.
Oh no, to Mac Collins. The underneath receiver was Hunter Henry.
Hollins actually makes a nice catch for him to start
that drive. Then it's the deep over to Stefan Diggs,
and that was the play where Will McDonald wins cleanly
off the snap on the right side and May just
(05:24):
calmly steps up in the pocket and there's also some
pressure on the left side too, and I'm with you,
just the pocket presence is awesome. And then the next
play after that is the Digs push pass where he
is just in create mode because the comparisons and the numbers,
obviously he's playing for the Patriots, to all these numbers
that he's setting. The first guy to do this since
Tom Brady, and there's nothing similar about them except for
(05:45):
tom Brady's superpower was pocket presence. I always thought that's
the thing he was the greatest at that, you know,
compared to any other quarterback that I've ever seen. And
May does it in a different way, but a lot
of times his pocket presence and his ability to get
away from defenders is staying inside the pocket. It's not
rolling out and throwing. He can do that sometimes, but
(06:05):
a lot of times it's staying in the pocket. And
that's what he did tonight. And yeah, a couple of
his best passes even weren't caught, like that one to
Diggs and then he had a fifty yarder down the
field to Matt Collins that he hit him in stride,
and then it was a nice play by Brandon Stevens
to knock it out.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So I'm with you. It just it doesn't seem too
big for him.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
And man, if this is going to help Patrick's points
in the MVP conversation, you know, well, we'll have to
talk about it Sunday.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
But he's in the mix. He's in the mix.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah, I mean, even the touchdown pass to Henderson was
a thing of beauty. Like it's a play in which
he breaks the pocket, looks like he may run. The
defense is fully prepared for him to take off, because,
by the way, he's one of the best running quarterbacks
in the NFL, especially when it comes to extending the
plane finding guys downfield, and then he just calmly off
one foot tosses it over a defender. Oh there's Henderson
in the back of the end zone.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Again.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Great accuracy makes it look easy, effortless, like he's doing
everything so well right now, and I just can't help
but enjoy watching him play football every single week. And
to go back on that Brady point real quick, he
had one other superpower, which is his pre snap diagnosis
of coverages and helping determine where he was going to go,
which that came with years of experience. May I mean,
(07:14):
I feel like I don't even need like that throw
that you mentioned, the one over Henry to mac Collins.
I thought when I watched that live, oh god, he
just forced that ball.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I didn't realize that he layered.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
That one in there that well, like it's we're just
talking about a quarterback who's exceeding all expectations.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I honestly don't think Patriots fans have fully come to
terms of just how preposterous.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
No, they're enjoying it in real time because that little
pop pass. You heard the crowd like ooh, like, oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Like they are.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
But for whatever reason, I think people just didn't see
last year how good he already was before getting McDaniels
and everything and the types of things that he's doing
as a second year quarterback, like when you bought him
out as a team, the hope is that you get
a high draft pick and you get one of those dudes,
and it just I don't like they're taking it for
(08:00):
granted that it's actually happened this way and not just
like a dude that's like pretty good, like Trevor Lawrence
is maybe not even in that category, but one that
you know has a chance to be one of the
five to eight capital d dudes for a while now.
You mentioned the pre snap stuff, and I think you
see it with how defenses are approaching him and they're
(08:21):
good at adjusting. And that's where McDaniels deserves credit because
they played way more zone than they normally play tonight,
and it took them a little while to adjust because
I think they wanted to prevent what he normally does
as as a zone guy, I mean as a as
a scrambler, and in theory like their running games should
be helped more by May, but it's really been inconsistent.
Even with Traveon Henderson, it's under three point five yards
(08:41):
per carry, but they have been better in the red
zone lately. Let's actually listen to the first touchdown of
the night by Travion Henderson.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Able squad under center. He takes the snap, he pitches
it near side for Henderson. He starts inside the defenders
put an assessed touchdown. Patriots, he got a push from
a pair of teammates. He said for six.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Gotta be happy about this rookie.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Yeah, Henderson is showing that he can run with a
little power, and they're showing that they can mix it
up with a crisis tanga, you know, Chris Tonga in
at fullback on some of these and an extra offensive lineman,
Ben Brown. So they're going heavy offensive line and that's
at least help them in the red zone lately.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
And I love this trend in the NFL where we're
just throwing six linemen. We're throwing linemen in his fullbacks,
you know, inside the ten yard line, sometimes inside the five,
and just playing man ball.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Let's just run you over and block better than you can.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But that play in particular really demonstrates why Trevan Henderson
was a second round pick, why he was considered one
of the best running backs in this class.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
In twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
We knew he had the home run ability from his
time at Ohio State, but I think a lot of
people didn't understand that he could run with the power
that you just described and that we just.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Saw on that play.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Now, of course, his teammates all rally behind him to
push him over those last few yards to get in
the end zone, but he's got to keep those legs turning.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
What made him special on that play was catching the toss.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
And instantly seeing where he needed to go, putting a
foot in the ground, and then bursting forward to evade
the defender who had properly read the play and could
have cut it down in the backfield, and then breaking
a tackle. Those are all the things you want to
see from a running back who you know has top
end speed, who can hit the big play. But you
need to be able to thrive in the situations with
the in which the lane is not perfect for him
and he's got to make something out of it.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
He certainly did that tonight.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Yeah, he I don't know if vision is his strength. Overall,
it was great on that play. They still aren't that
effective on a down to down basis. Their success rate
tonight was thirty five percent last week against the Bucks.
They were actually dead last in rushing success rate for
week ten despite those two long runs by Henderson. So
on a snap the snap basis, they're struggling a little bit.
(10:43):
They're better when they do the pin pull stuff. Nate
Tyce pointed this out on Blue Sky that you know,
look when they get a guy pulling in motion, they
have big time plays, but pretty much any of their
other zone or like duo runs, like it's not really
working for him.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Michael on one.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
You had a great block on that second touchdown though,
so good job by them there. I do notice, like
how when they need to play so often in the
passing game, it's Stefan Diggs and he goes over one
hundred yards tonight and it's not an every week thing
where he's gonna have this type of night. He goes
nine for one oh five. But man, when when they
need a third down, like it's Stephan Diggs. He had
(11:22):
a couple crucial ones tonight and even on the first
touchdown drive, I'm thinking Drake may threw a fastball in
on like third and medium and Digs made a great
catch that only went for three or four yards. But
it's set up a fourth and two so that they
could actually go for it, and it's been an underrated
part of May's accuracy is that between Hollins and Henry
(11:44):
and Kayshaun Boody when he's been out there, they really
missed him tonight because because Kyle Wilson, you know, Williams
is always part of these miscommunications.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Those guys have made a lot of tough catches for
Drake May, so that they deserve credit to Stephan Diggs
more than anyone.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
I remember, we spent a lot of time debating how
this receiving corp was going to shake out, which guys
might make the team, and through most of it, Diggs,
you know, arrived ahead of schedule in his recovery from
his injury. But I felt like we were pretty cautious
on what we might expect from him. I think he's
exceeded every expectation possible for him, and that's even for
a guy like Stefan Diggs at this stage in his career.
(12:19):
He has given the Patriots more return on an investment
than I think they ever could have imagined. And I
think that that's also what is lost in the whole
Drake May. You know, the build of the narrative and
the excitement around him is the fact that he's also
making a lot of magic with the guy who's you know,
established a career for making magic with other quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Diggs has been a huge part of this offense.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
This year, and they have him signed for the next
two years at good prices for them.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Now.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
He's a year and a year type of guy at
this point, and it wouldn't surprise me if like this
turns into the honeymoon year and his age thirty three
season next year, which he's almost certainly going to be
back for now because he's playing so well. You know,
it does go as well, that's how these things go.
But they're really happy I think that they have him
under contract and he's been really important to them on
(13:08):
the Jets side. Look, the passing game is limited, but
it was just a case where tonight I think they
took turns making different errors. Ady Mitchell drops a dime
down the field on one third down. Early on another
third down, Justin Fields misses a d Mitchell pretty wide
(13:30):
open on the play. They have a really great first drive.
The Patriots continue to give up first drive touchdowns that's
six times a season they've given up first drive touchdowns.
But the running game and Justin Field's running the ball
aggressively kind of went away for most of the night.
The Patriots lost Milton Williams pretty early in this game
to an ankle injury. He played under ten snaps, so
that's a concern for them. But ultimately, no Garrett Wilson
(13:54):
on the field, you kind of figured the Jets would
be limited offensively, and Fields isn't showing that, Like he
has the ability to kind of overcome what's around him
despite pretty good pass pro.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, good pass pro. And honestly, he had a few
good throws. And I'm not taking this stance as the
Justin Fields defender because you can see the limitations, but
in better pass pro than we've seen for most of
the year, which is a nice encouraging thing to see
from the Jets. But like, he had a few throws
that were just flat out dropped and most of them
were ad Mitchell. And I'm a believer in ad Mitchell.
(14:26):
If he can figure out how to catch the football
because he.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Runs great seems important for a receiver, No.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Finish the job. You run great routes, you get open.
He's putting the ball right on you. You got to catch it.
You could tell he was kind of in his own head,
which has been the story of his second season in
the NFL. Really, but I mean, at one point in
the fourth court, Mitchell comes off the field after dropping
another pass, and I look at the guys out there,
and it's like John Metchi and Tyler Johnson, and I'm
just thinking, like half of this receiving corps wasn't even
(14:52):
on this team to start the season, Like this is
such a team in transition. It's a tough situation for fields,
but it is not the sole explanation for this offense struggles.
I was surprised to see him do better as a
passer tonight, even if some of those passes weren't completed,
because he's been so bad for them for most of
this season, and yet the result ends up being the
same because they can't get out of their own way
(15:14):
very often.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
He runs for sixty seven yards with a touchdown. Need
to see more of that, I think from him.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, But then the Patriots shut it down in the
second half, like it wasn't really a viable option, and
especially when you go down by two scores.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
You know, they can't stretch the field.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
You knew this game was basically over, which is the
story of a team that's two and eight.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Yeah, they had a two game winning Street coming in
and even though he threw the ball better, he ends
up with one hundred and sixteen yards and twenty six
attempts sol though obviously if eighty Mitchell had caught a
couple of those passes, that'll be I'm already seeing this
should be the last we see of justin fields stuff
from for instance, the Athletic I saw put that out there,
and like maybe, first of all, Tyrod Taylor is very
(15:50):
unlikely to stay healthy for the rest of the season,
which it would be what still like seven more games,
Like that's probably not gonna happen. Anyways, I think they
have some pieces. Their tackles are good, Olu Fashionu and
and on the other side, Membu have played well and
I think that's something to build around, along with Breese Hall.
(16:12):
But just just too many mistakes, including like you know,
penalties in big Spot. You know, a couple like unnecessary
roughness penalties that they didn't need. They had a holding
penalty which gave the Patriots a field goal attempt at
the end of the first half. It was just a
lot of mental errors. And I just don't get this
thing with Aaron Glenn. He won't say who his quarterback
(16:34):
is until like game time. It was literally Thursday afternoon,
and Albert Breer was like, Justin Fields is probably going
to be the starting quarterback. You don't really see that
too often in twenty twenty five, but it's like, why
such a mystery? And then the way Glenn is sometimes
acting when reporters ask him questions. Here's Aaron Glenn actually
(16:54):
earlier this week when asked about Garrett Wilson, who, by
the way, was placed on injured reserve on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I'm going to pass on talking about injuries since you're Rich.
Oh he's not here. He has all the answers, so
you can, guys, get all the injuries from Rich.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
It's like he's talking about Rich Simini, by the way,
who reported that Garrett Wilson would be out three to
four weeks, and then a couple of days later they
put him on injured reserve, which literally announces that he's
out for four weeks, and he gets, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Know, it's just unnecessary. It's a first year coach kind
of trying to figure it out. It reminds me a
little bit of Jerrod Mayo and the way that he
dealt with the media.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
He's been Patriots last season.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
He's better at it than Mayo, as Mayo was kind
of a disaster in that department. But it's just like
it's unnecessary. I understand you're frustrated and you're upset that
information gets.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Out with steal the cracks building rest doing his job.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
It's the agent. It's also like, don't worry about other things.
It's really it's really not that important. Shout out to
Christian Barmore, by the way, who gets a sack tonight.
It is his first since missing almost all last season
with blood clots, but he had a couple pressures. He
has been good for the Patriots defense, which I still
have my questions about. I don't think they're going to
(18:07):
be good enough to get through an AFC gauntlet. You know,
people in Foxborough are dreaming about the Super Bowl because
if you look at their schedule, they are now nine
and two. They are going to be heavy favorites in
at least like four of their remaining games, and then
they also have the Bills and the Ravens on the schedule, Like,
it is pretty easy to see them getting to thirteen wins,
(18:29):
which will give them a good chance at winning the
division and possibly even being the one seed. And then,
of course you dream about the Super Bowl. I have
my questions about whether the defense could get it done
in this AFC, But if ever there was a year
to do it, I guess this might be the year.
Depends depends where the other guys are you buying? Before
(18:49):
we move on to the quarterbacks Patriots, Like, where do
you put them in the AFC hierarchy of teams most
likely to make the Super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'll say it that way.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
So you have the Bills, of course, you have the Chiefs,
you have the Chargers, you have the Ravens if you
want to throw in the Steelers out of out of respect,
and the Broncos certainly, where do you put the Patriots
in that group?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
M I mean, let's not forget the Colts too.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Colts. Oh my god, I'd been banging the Colts drama.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Yes, okay, So I want to give some credit to like, like,
this defense has put together a season that is much
better than we thought it would be.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Like the play of.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Klevon Chasson, for example. Yeah, you know, he's leading them
in sacks. He's been great for most of this year.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
But I also and you have.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Christian Gonzalez back there, and you got Marcus Jones and
everything else. But this is also a defense that was
largely patched together by a lot of off season additions,
Milton Williams being one of them, Robert Spoline being another one.
And I saw a weakness tonight that makes me concerned
about how they could perform against a team like Baltimore.
I don't think they have a linebacker who could effectively
(19:54):
spy a running quarterback, and that could be their biggest
weakness exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Jack Gibbons isn't getting it done for Jack Gibbins actually
played pretty well. He's actually played pretty well for them
since he got inserted in a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
But yeah, yes, but given Splaine, none of those guys
could spy a Lamar and so I think that could
be their weakness.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
But I do Mahomes or maybe even Daniel Jones, and.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
That's gonna take a lot of discipline and defensive integrity,
and I don't know if they've gotten enough time together
to really do that in the biggest spots. But I
do think that they'll give every team they play a
game because of what we've seen from this offense.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
It's a little bit inflated.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Like there was what three or four years ago where
the Vikings I was like, that's one of the most
overrated twelve thirteen win teams whatever they were that year
that I've ever seen, the most fraudulent, and they proved
that when they lost to the Giants in the playoffs.
I wouldn't say the same thing about these Patriots. I
just don't think their ceiling is as high as the
Super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So I would agree with you, Yeah, it's going to
depend on the matchups. But like I said, it's crazy
nine and two. It does make me feel like, Okay,
we're here, We're we're at a point in the season
where a team can be nine and two and Yeah,
they only have six geames left, and four of them
are against the Bengals, Giants, Jets, and Dolphins. Doesn't mean
(21:01):
they're going to win all four, but they'll be favored
in all of them. I give them a chance to
win any game but one and done in the playoffs.
Also wouldn't be a surprise depending on the matchup, but
I give them a chance because of their quarterback.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Let's take a break.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
And we will redraft the twenty twenty four quarterback class.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
After the break back on NFL Daily, it's time.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
It's the twenty twenty four quarterback class redraft. Okay college
tape matters, NFL tape matters more. Based on the now
year and a half sample size, we have of one
of the best quarterback classes we have seen of the
last twenty years. We are going to redraft this much
(21:45):
debated class and we'll each give our picks, but I
want to hear yours first. Who goes first? Out of
your quarterbacks? There's really only a couple options. I would
assume it's only Drake May or Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
But who do you go?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, and you can accuse me of recency bias. I
don't care.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
It's Drake May, home run, slam dunk, Drake May. Easy
choice because of what we just described.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah, we talked about him a lot on the show already.
I think it's clear just because of the style of play.
And I got some pushback already on social of just like, look,
Jayden led his team to multiple playoff wins where he
was the biggest reason by far they won those games
as a rookie, and I think that's all fair, and
(22:29):
I think if you want to say it's a little unfair,
and we'll just talk about these two guys now together
because I have May number one in Jayden two. You
can tell me if you have Jayden two in a second,
but we'll talk about Jayden. I think like the durability
stuff is somewhat fair to talk about with Jayden because
of his frame. And then I just think with how
(22:51):
unique that offense was, you have to worry just a
little bit more than May long term about how he
keeps in pro and stacking how he is as a quarterback.
That said, I think he is so sharp and has
so many assets beyond his incredible athleticism that's Jade Daniels
and its incredible accuracy that frankly, I'm not that worried
(23:15):
about his ability to evolve as a player and an
excellent quarterback, and he would still be in my top
ten quarterbacks I want long term, and I'm still like
very high on where Jaden Daniels' career goes.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It's mostly just the durability.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
And the size, which I think is a skill that
makes me take May over Jadon Daniels.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah, when we look at his career in hindsight, whenever
it ends this is a season we will completely throw
out the window like a professor throws out your lowest
test score, you know, at the end of the semester,
like it's it's completely incomplete. This evaluation this season because
he's been hurt three separate times. He's had a number
of guys around him get hurt. The circumstances surrounding him
have been terrible, and quarterbacks in the league it comes
(24:01):
down to two things usually for them, talent, slash ability
and experience. That's all like in one bucket, and the
other bucket is situation. And the situation for him last
year he elevated this team, but he also had enough
around him to capitalize and maximize what they were going
to do that season, and he did the rest of
the work, which is why he had such a great season.
He had an offensive Rookie of the Year season. We
(24:22):
all held him in high regard. This year, all of
that fell apart. That does not diminish how I see him,
but I do think the durability questions are valid because
of his size, like you said, because of what we
saw this season and his style of play.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Somebody who extends the play, somebody they liked the.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Run read option, with that whole dynamic element of his game,
it matters long term. Now, we said the same things
about Lamar early in his career. He has missed some games,
but it hasn't been as much of an issue as
we thought it would be, and I think the same
will be true for Jaden overall. But the durability is
the reason that I would put him right behind Drake
May at this point after only you know, almost two seasons.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
You know, I think Leabar came into the league with
better pure pocket passing skills, at least that were translatable
from a pro offense that he played in college, Which
is why I always laugh when Kirk Kirkstry just keeps
talking about how much he's improved and like he wasn't
a pocketbaster. He was always that guy. Now he has
of course improved Lamar. That is I just think Jayden,
like I want to see him in different types of offenses.
(25:19):
But it's a small thing. By the way, if May
winds up getting let's say, top five MVP votes, that
type of thing, top three MVP votes. I did a
little research while that second half was going on second
year quarterbacks to win MVP. Patrick Mahomes and of course
he didn't even start his rookie year. Lamar Jackson, Dan
Marino Ye and then Kurt Warner, who was an interesting
(25:42):
case because he played you know, arena ball and he
was twenty eight years old, but he was a second
year quarterback.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
That's about it.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Peyton Manning came in second in the MVP as a
second year player, So it's rare, like all time greatest
stuff to get that high in the end, I personally
don't think think May is gonna wind up with the
m v P, but even to get in the mix
is rare stuff. And you know, for what it's worth,
now that we have more voters, you can go one
through what five on the m v P. Jane Daniels
(26:11):
came in seventh last year, so like he was, he
was in the mix last year, all right, is Jade
and your number two pick, by the way, should have confronted.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
He is, okay, And I just want to expand that
real quick because I was thinking about top five MVP
guys right now, and you hate MVP discussions at this
point in the season.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I'm just gonna throw it out there.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Matthew Stafford, Baker Mayfield, Drake May, Jonathan Taylor option number
five like May is very much in that conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Oh Man, May's ahead of all those guys that order.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I was just throwing those out there.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Yeah, I still just the way that Herbert and Mahomes
have played, I'd probably have Stafford, May, Herbert and Mahomes
would probably be.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
That's my top four.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
But Taylor Taylor is right there too, Okay, is number
three Caleb Williams for you.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yes it is. And I think this is the end
of a clear.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Like lineup demarcation in this group, because look, Caleb is
not super consistent over four quarters, and I'm going to
say the same thing about vote NICKX later in this group,
but what he has done over the last month and
a half and his partnership with Ben Johnson makes me
think that he can actually live up to expectation. His
fourth quarter play in some of these games is just
(27:21):
absolutely scintillating, like just injected in my veins. Caleb Williams, clutch,
Gene I wish I could just spread it to everybody
on the planet that they could perform under pressure like
he does, whether it's running, whether it's throwing. The moment
is never too big for him, and he has those
natural abilities that again he doesn't necessarily show off over
an entire game, but God, when he scrambles and just
lets that arm rip, that is special.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
He has an arm that is very rare, and once they.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Harness that over the course of a full four quarters,
he's gonna be one of the best quarterbacks in the
league as long as he stays in this track.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
And age matters a little bit to me here. And
you know, Caleb Williams is twenty three years old. He
is more than a year younger than Jade Daniels. For instance,
Drake May is almost another year younger even than Caleb Williams,
which which is crazy. Caleb's about to turn twenty four.
You know, May just turned twenty three, so that I
(28:13):
think bolsters May's case.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
In general.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
I always thought, at least coming into this season, that
Caleb Williams' floor is higher than people realize, that he
showed more than enough as a rookie that I was like, oh,
like his floor is cutlersh which it's kind of where
he is now, right, Like people will mock that, but
Jay Cutler like kept getting one hundred million dollar contracts
because he was like the twelfth best player in the
(28:39):
league and sometimes he looked like you know, quarterback in
the league, and sometimes he looked like the eighth, but
he wasn't the consistent guy that you want.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That's his floor.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I think it's gonna end up being higher than that,
and I think we've seen a steady improvement that, like
the way he plays is so special that it really
can create plays that even Drake May and Jane Daniels
can't make, and that he's in moving on all the
other stuff like players do because like they're young and
the experience is gonna help so to me situation, to me,
(29:08):
his ceiling still might be like as high as Jaden
and Drake Mays.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I don't think it's that crazy to say.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
I just think you have to base a pick like
this off of what we've seen so far, and their
ceilings are still sky high, and we've just seen I
think some of the next level processing and everything like
that more than Caleb Williams to this point.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
But I think he.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I think Bears fans feel great about him now, maybe
significantly better than they did at the starting of the season.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
You know how I know they're feeling better about it
because they're getting in my DMS more when I don't
rank them.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Okay, speaking of which, I am very curious. And this
is where it gets even more interesting. Who is number
four for you?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
This is gonna be tough, but I would probably put
Bonnicks there.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Okay, I did.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Too, and I had to like really look at myself
the mirror and say, is that just because I'm afraid
of the Broncos fans? And I haven't answered that question
in my soul because if it was my team, would
I really take bo Nicks over Pennex and JJ and Rattler.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I don't know, but.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
At this point, for what he's done, I think I would.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I am a firm believer that eventually they are going
to figure this out, that his lack of consistency, his
absolute disappearing acts until the fourth quarter of some of
these games, is just a product of them not quite
getting their bearings offensively, which doesn't make sense because Sean
this is not Sean Payton's first year there, it's not
his first year with bow Knicks, but there's been a
difference in offensive style.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
It's almost like they've tried to force.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Themselves square peg into a round hole and they're now
starting to pull back on that and realize, maybe that's
not what we should do. Like last year, they would
roll bow out so much, get him out on the perimeter,
and that's where he was really good. You don't see
that intentionally nearly as much this year. I think there's
been more of a focus on the ground game, which
I think at times has limited their offense. It's just
like they have they don't know what they want to be,
and the lack of identity has held them back until
(31:02):
they absolutely need to turn it on. And I think
that in the moments in which he turns on, you
can see how special he can be. Can we see
it over at least a half or maybe three quarters.
I'm not even asking for all four quarters. That, combined
with what I saw from him last year, save for
the wild mistakes that he tended to make in the
back half of last year, makes me believe that he
can be there. His ceiling is not as high as
the first three guys we talked about, But I feel
(31:24):
better about guys that are no because of the product
that I've seen so far than Pennix or JJ McCarthy,
for example.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I think McCarthy probably has the highest ceiling of the
four remaining quarterbacks. I am including Rattler here, but bo
Nicks is turning twenty six in in February, and he's
just played a lot of football and he will continue
to improve, of course he will, but the fact that
he's played a lot of football, you do wonder, like
(31:50):
how how dramatic that improvement is going to be. Ultimately,
I did put him forth because I think he's proven
he's an NFL QB and and like that's a real thing,
Like he's an NFL starting quarterback. He's in a perfect
system for him right now, and there's every reason to
believe that he will be able to improve as he goes.
(32:11):
And ultimately, I think with the athleticism and frankly he's
made more impressive downfield throws consistently than Michael Pennix, McCarthy
is just a total wild card, and so we'll get
to him. I agree with you with bo at four
In the end, that's that's where I went. And it
wasn't just because I'm afraid of Broncos fans.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
But no, you can come to Cleveland. I'm a man,
I'm thirty three. To quote Mike Gundy, Okay, it's five.
This is hard.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
This is hard because are we talking about potentially? Are
we talking about product?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
We're talking about a redraft.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
So you're starting, so it's basically potential because you're starting
your Nick Shook League, your team, and you have him
for the next four years or whatever. You know, it's
a redraft, you're draft in him. Who do I got
for good? And that's why I say it's like interesting
bo versus JJ, for instance, because JJ is more of
the mystery box right now, but he is maybe a
(33:07):
little toolsy, a little toolsier. Pennix has the bigger arm
you like. I like how he carries himself. I like
a lot of the things about him, but I haven't
loved what's on the field as much.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
So who is your your fifth guy? Now?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
The mystery box could be anything. He'd even be a boat.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
God.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I think I'm gonna go with McCarthy.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
This goes against everything that I've felt about this class.
I felt McCarthy was overrated coming out of Michigan not well,
primarily because the whole thing about him was, Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
He's a winner. He's rarely ever lost. He does make
a lot of plays. He did it at Michigan.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
He's done it at times in his very brief NFL
career so far, where he has the athleticism to take off,
run and and you know, pick up the key downs.
And I think that will benefit him over the course
of his career. It's just that, like, I have the
most recent performance in my brain right now, and it
burned my eyes watching that game against the Ravens, just
the missed throws, the.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
This is your franchise for the next five yearsook?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, I do you just took it. You just took him.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
I was saying, here we go, Okay. I think that's
probably the right move. I wrote down Pennix ahead of
him because I think I'm sticking to my priors. I
think his floor is Okay, Michael Pennix, you do worry,
you know, you think about his early sample size last year,
and that looked really good right off the bat. Michael
(34:30):
Pennox and I think he quarterbacks are going to have
their ups and downs, and I think he's in a
little bit of a lull. His floor is higher JJ
right now. I just don't know from snap to snap
what's going to happen. And I do worry a little
bit because he has been in that building. Everyone's like, well,
it's his rookie years.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
It's okay.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
I mean you did get the benefit of being with
Kevin O'Connell and being in an NFL building for a
year and a half. It's not exactly his his rook
I mean, I know Patrick Mahomes was on on the
field and everything, but he didn't play his rookie you know,
rookieyear Like I I just think, let's say he was
Drake May for instance, or he was Jayden Daniels, like
(35:12):
you would know it after that, you know, being in
the building and stuff like.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Joe Burrow, you know it in week two of the
rookie season.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
That That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
And so do you take what I think is with
Pennix a pretty a decent floor. Is he going to
be like at at the Dalton scale line, you know,
right in the middle, like that could be Michael Pennox's outcome. Obviously,
you hope hope for better because he does have limitations.
I don't love a quarterback that that's not consistently accurate.
(35:40):
And that's kind of what Pennix is right now. A
guy who can run pretty fast in a straight line.
That's not his his mo at all, But the once
or twice he does it, you're like, oh, you can
do that. You just want to see him do it more.
But it's just not natural for his game. It never was.
Whereas JJ McCarthy, I think is a better athlete and
plays with a little more aggress So I just changed
(36:00):
my pick. We haven't thrown the cart up. I am
taking Macarthy over Penix. Ultimately, I think I would think.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Ran out and did a lot of hem and haw,
And that's.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
What I do.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
If the clock ran out on me, like this podcast
would get canceled, you know too much, Honky, I'm taking
I'm taking JJ now. I tucked myself into it because
you know what, I don't want to aim for the
middle and I do. I'd rather flame out with Kyle
Bowler just hoping that that's hoping, hoping that it's actually
(36:31):
Lamar Jackson instead of just like aiming for I don't know,
someone else, yeah, yeah, instead of aiming for someone in
the middle. But I hope for more for Penix. I
guess that means Rattler is is seven for you.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, but you know what, it's not a big gap.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I would love to see the Saints trade Spencer Rattler
to the Jets or the Browns and see how it works,
because I know he had a really hard crash and
burn those couple of games, but the tape before was
really encouraging and I was on board baby he is.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
I mean, he was an older prospect too, but he's
a little younger than Penix and Knicks, and I don't
think his tape was much worse than or much different
than Pennox and Knicks.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So maybe I'm buying, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
The the pre draft kind of hype that I'm just
grading off the draft even even now, because I don't
think his tape was much worse. The problem was he
wasn't quite aggressive enough for a guy that I think
would need to play that way. And when I'm saying
that size as a skill, like McCarthy and Pennex are
much more of the build and like the prototype of
what you want out of a quarterback compared to Raller.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So I'm I'm self hating here.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
I'm picking on the short guys, you know, not the
Rallery short, but for a quarterback, you know relative.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
I mean, there are there are shorter guys that are
still in the league and ones on ir right now.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
That is a topic of conversation that we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And he was a number one overall pick. That That's what.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
I'm saying Patriots fans, like you can get all the
way up to the number one pick, and then you
can have Kyler Murray and you can be like not
totally sure about him six seven years later. Same thing
with like Justin I mean with Trevor Lawrence, or you know,
certainly with the Darnolds and even the Bakers in their
first spots. You know at times snow guarantee. We know now,
all right, we did it, Nick Schook, We had a
(38:19):
great show. Appreciate everyone checking out the TNF preview. We
will be back in the feed with my week eleven
picks with myself and Cynthia Freeland. By the way, we're
back in the studio here on a Thursday night. I
know that makes Chris Babona feel like a little more alive.
He doesn't like it when I go home.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
When I'm I'm in the home studio.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Check out my picks six week witting streak right now
with the picks against the spread.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
We'll see you there
A whole long.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Drake's trying to move to make plays.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Snapped to May looks to his left, he pumps, He throws.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Culton in the touchdown Patriots and who caught it? Trim
out Underson, Hi.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Hack Trim for the rookie.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm pledged, Bucks, I mean, I'm played fantasy football.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
But who's got thatten on it?
Speaker 4 (00:18):
Dan?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Three touchdowns? Snati your breaking records. He's gonna get another
one too, Tony. He's gonna get the ups out four times.
Oh but he didn't score for Scott Zolac taking.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
An l on the same night that his beloved Patriots
got a ninth w the first team in the NFL
Nick Schook to clinch a winning record for the twenty
twenty five season. Is the New England Patriots twenty seven
to fourteen? Yes, that was also Bob soci on wb
Z twenty seven fourteen. I think it's about accurate in
(00:53):
terms of how this game felt. The Jets were competitive,
but ultimately you never felt that the Patriots were going
to lose. All it took Nick was Rimandre Stevenson and
Treell Jennings getting hurt for Traveon Henderson to become that dude,
and he delivers with three scores on a night where
everyone got to enjoy the young Patriots players.
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It's like I tweeted during the game, I'm old enough
to remember when Travion Henderson was barely even a part
of the game plan. Right now he's the star, the
central figure, at least when it comes to scoring touchdowns
for them. Tonight a classic Patriots performance, classic in the
new age of Patriots, with Drake May at the controls
and powering this offense and then Henderson finishing the drives
off with touchdowns. A different game than what we saw
(01:35):
against Tampa Bay last week, which is perfectly fine and
very encouraging for the Patriots, who won a short week,
come home and largely handle their division rivals in a
game in which they just needed to take care of business,
and once again, their quarterback puts together a fantastic performance.
Twenty five and thirty four might not look that great
to you, but I promising you there are so many
highlight throws from this game that are worth watching an
(01:55):
NFL plus, you got to go back and check it out.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Drake May had another great night.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
You know, it's crazy.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
I think that drops his completion percentage on the season,
which is nuts, and he doesn't top three hundred yards,
which he actually hasn't done yet as a pro. So
Mac Jones still the last Patriot to top three hundred
yards and yet as flashy as the Henderson touchdowns were,
and they were interesting for different reasons, the offensive line
did a good job on both of them, and we'll
(02:20):
listen to those later. Drake May's season is one of
the biggest stories in the NFL, not just that he's
that dude. And we're actually gonna do a little redraft
after we talk about this game, picking who we would
take out of the twenty twenty four QB draft class,
just like our top you know, six or seven if
(02:41):
we want to include Spencer Rattler in that mix, and
obviously May's gonna be at or near the top of
that depending on how you feel shook. But like he's
at the level where he's elevating the people around him.
It's not like the past protection has been great. Tonight,
I would say, considering the opponent, it was okay. It
was up and down, but it was okay. But it's
(03:02):
him handling the pressure and then elevating guys like Pop
Douglas and Mac Collins and Stefan Diggs even at the
later points of his career and making them look better.
What to you, it was kind of the most impressive
part of this performance by me.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
Oh, Undoubtedly it was his ability to sit amid pressure
in a pocket that was ever changing, step up, effortlessly,
keep his eyes down the field, and hit precise throws
with such precision that I'm you know, on my couch
watching just going wow multiple times, just audibly saying wow.
There was a throw he had over the middle of
(03:38):
Stefon Diggs that Diggs dropped that as he took the throw,
I went, oh, no, you did it, Like just there's
no way you're making this attempt.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
He does it.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He steps up in the pocket and hits another receiver
with incredible precision. He does it to set up a touchdown,
like it's just to move the chains. There's one play
where he's rolling to the sideline it looks like he's
going to give up on any channels as inner Josh
Allen and just tosses a little soft one to Diggs
that the chains as well, like it's just no matter
the situation. He is so calm and poised for a
guy who is only in a second year, and you
(04:07):
combine that with the what I will say is elite accuracy,
and we've seen it, especially over the last couple of weeks,
and you've got a quarterback who can pretty much handle anything,
do everything, and propel your offense forward.
Speaker 5 (04:19):
And there will be more tests, and they continue to
pass these tests of taking care business against inferior competition,
which at this point it's fair to say not only
of the Jets are, but like next week's matchup against
the Bengals, like that's a game that the Patriot should win.
And so far they keep winning those games, and they
keep winning him by a couple of scores. But you're
so right that incompletion by the way to digs over
(04:39):
the middle, which at that point was the best throw
of the night, is a great reason to watch Prime
vision because you realize how just completely ballsy that throw was.
At that point he was eleven for eleven. That was
actually his first incompletion on the night. The push pass
to me was part of the drive that really showed
what Drake May is all about, and that was the
second drive of the third quarter. It's only a fourteen
to seven game, at that point. It starts with the
(05:02):
drive with a throw where he layers one in to
Hunter Henry like he has to go over the underneath defender.
Oh no, to Mac Collins. The underneath receiver was Hunter Henry.
Hollins actually makes a nice catch for him to start
that drive. Then it's the deep over to Stefan Diggs,
and that was the play where Will McDonald wins cleanly
off the snap on the right side and May just
(05:24):
calmly steps up in the pocket and there's also some
pressure on the left side too, and I'm with you,
just the pocket presence is awesome. And then the next
play after that is the Digs push pass where he
is just in create mode because the comparisons and the numbers,
obviously he's playing for the Patriots, to all these numbers
that he's setting. The first guy to do this since
Tom Brady, and there's nothing similar about them except for
(05:45):
tom Brady's superpower was pocket presence. I always thought that's
the thing he was the greatest at that, you know,
compared to any other quarterback that I've ever seen. And
May does it in a different way, but a lot
of times his pocket presence and his ability to get
away from defenders is staying inside the pocket. It's not
rolling out and throwing. He can do that sometimes, but
(06:05):
a lot of times it's staying in the pocket. And
that's what he did tonight. And yeah, a couple of
his best passes even weren't caught, like that one to
Diggs and then he had a fifty yarder down the
field to Matt Collins that he hit him in stride,
and then it was a nice play by Brandon Stevens
to knock it out.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So I'm with you. It just it doesn't seem too
big for him.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
And man, if this is going to help Patrick's points
in the MVP conversation, you know, well, we'll have to
talk about it Sunday.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
But he's in the mix. He's in the mix.
Speaker 4 (06:32):
Yeah, I mean, even the touchdown pass to Henderson was
a thing of beauty. Like it's a play in which
he breaks the pocket, looks like he may run. The
defense is fully prepared for him to take off, because,
by the way, he's one of the best running quarterbacks
in the NFL, especially when it comes to extending the
plane finding guys downfield, and then he just calmly off
one foot tosses it over a defender. Oh there's Henderson
in the back of the end zone.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Again.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Great accuracy makes it look easy, effortless, like he's doing
everything so well right now, and I just can't help
but enjoy watching him play football every single week. And
to go back on that Brady point real quick, he
had one other superpower, which is his pre snap diagnosis
of coverages and helping determine where he was going to go,
which that came with years of experience. May I mean,
(07:14):
I feel like I don't even need like that throw
that you mentioned, the one over Henry to mac Collins.
I thought when I watched that live, oh god, he
just forced that ball.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
I didn't realize that he layered.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
That one in there that well, like it's we're just
talking about a quarterback who's exceeding all expectations.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I honestly don't think Patriots fans have fully come to
terms of just how preposterous.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
No, they're enjoying it in real time because that little
pop pass. You heard the crowd like ooh, like, oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Like they are.
Speaker 5 (07:39):
But for whatever reason, I think people just didn't see
last year how good he already was before getting McDaniels
and everything and the types of things that he's doing
as a second year quarterback, like when you bought him
out as a team, the hope is that you get
a high draft pick and you get one of those dudes,
and it just I don't like they're taking it for
(08:00):
granted that it's actually happened this way and not just
like a dude that's like pretty good, like Trevor Lawrence
is maybe not even in that category, but one that
you know has a chance to be one of the
five to eight capital d dudes for a while now.
You mentioned the pre snap stuff, and I think you
see it with how defenses are approaching him and they're
(08:21):
good at adjusting. And that's where McDaniels deserves credit because
they played way more zone than they normally play tonight,
and it took them a little while to adjust because
I think they wanted to prevent what he normally does
as as a zone guy, I mean as a as
a scrambler, and in theory like their running games should
be helped more by May, but it's really been inconsistent.
Even with Traveon Henderson, it's under three point five yards
(08:41):
per carry, but they have been better in the red
zone lately. Let's actually listen to the first touchdown of
the night by Travion Henderson.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Able squad under center. He takes the snap, he pitches
it near side for Henderson. He starts inside the defenders
put an assessed touchdown. Patriots, he got a push from
a pair of teammates. He said for six.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Gotta be happy about this rookie.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Yeah, Henderson is showing that he can run with a
little power, and they're showing that they can mix it
up with a crisis tanga, you know, Chris Tonga in
at fullback on some of these and an extra offensive lineman,
Ben Brown. So they're going heavy offensive line and that's
at least help them in the red zone lately.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
And I love this trend in the NFL where we're
just throwing six linemen. We're throwing linemen in his fullbacks,
you know, inside the ten yard line, sometimes inside the five,
and just playing man ball.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Let's just run you over and block better than you can.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
But that play in particular really demonstrates why Trevan Henderson
was a second round pick, why he was considered one
of the best running backs in this class.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
In twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
We knew he had the home run ability from his
time at Ohio State, but I think a lot of
people didn't understand that he could run with the power
that you just described and that we just.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Saw on that play.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
Now, of course, his teammates all rally behind him to
push him over those last few yards to get in
the end zone, but he's got to keep those legs turning.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
What made him special on that play was catching the toss.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
And instantly seeing where he needed to go, putting a
foot in the ground, and then bursting forward to evade
the defender who had properly read the play and could
have cut it down in the backfield, and then breaking
a tackle. Those are all the things you want to
see from a running back who you know has top
end speed, who can hit the big play. But you
need to be able to thrive in the situations with
the in which the lane is not perfect for him
and he's got to make something out of it.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
He certainly did that tonight.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
Yeah, he I don't know if vision is his strength. Overall,
it was great on that play. They still aren't that
effective on a down to down basis. Their success rate
tonight was thirty five percent last week against the Bucks.
They were actually dead last in rushing success rate for
week ten despite those two long runs by Henderson. So
on a snap the snap basis, they're struggling a little bit.
(10:43):
They're better when they do the pin pull stuff. Nate
Tyce pointed this out on Blue Sky that you know,
look when they get a guy pulling in motion, they
have big time plays, but pretty much any of their
other zone or like duo runs, like it's not really
working for him.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Michael on one.
Speaker 5 (11:01):
You had a great block on that second touchdown though,
so good job by them there. I do notice, like
how when they need to play so often in the
passing game, it's Stefan Diggs and he goes over one
hundred yards tonight and it's not an every week thing
where he's gonna have this type of night. He goes
nine for one oh five. But man, when when they
need a third down, like it's Stephan Diggs. He had
(11:22):
a couple crucial ones tonight and even on the first
touchdown drive, I'm thinking Drake may threw a fastball in
on like third and medium and Digs made a great
catch that only went for three or four yards. But
it's set up a fourth and two so that they
could actually go for it, and it's been an underrated
part of May's accuracy is that between Hollins and Henry
(11:44):
and Kayshaun Boody when he's been out there, they really
missed him tonight because because Kyle Wilson, you know, Williams
is always part of these miscommunications.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
Those guys have made a lot of tough catches for
Drake May, so that they deserve credit to Stephan Diggs
more than anyone.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
I remember, we spent a lot of time debating how
this receiving corp was going to shake out, which guys
might make the team, and through most of it, Diggs,
you know, arrived ahead of schedule in his recovery from
his injury. But I felt like we were pretty cautious
on what we might expect from him. I think he's
exceeded every expectation possible for him, and that's even for
a guy like Stefan Diggs at this stage in his career.
(12:19):
He has given the Patriots more return on an investment
than I think they ever could have imagined. And I
think that that's also what is lost in the whole
Drake May. You know, the build of the narrative and
the excitement around him is the fact that he's also
making a lot of magic with the guy who's you know,
established a career for making magic with other quarterbacks.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Diggs has been a huge part of this offense.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
This year, and they have him signed for the next
two years at good prices for them.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Now.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
He's a year and a year type of guy at
this point, and it wouldn't surprise me if like this
turns into the honeymoon year and his age thirty three
season next year, which he's almost certainly going to be
back for now because he's playing so well. You know,
it does go as well, that's how these things go.
But they're really happy I think that they have him
under contract and he's been really important to them on
(13:08):
the Jets side. Look, the passing game is limited, but
it was just a case where tonight I think they
took turns making different errors. Ady Mitchell drops a dime
down the field on one third down. Early on another
third down, Justin Fields misses a d Mitchell pretty wide
(13:30):
open on the play. They have a really great first drive.
The Patriots continue to give up first drive touchdowns that's
six times a season they've given up first drive touchdowns.
But the running game and Justin Field's running the ball
aggressively kind of went away for most of the night.
The Patriots lost Milton Williams pretty early in this game
to an ankle injury. He played under ten snaps, so
that's a concern for them. But ultimately, no Garrett Wilson
(13:54):
on the field, you kind of figured the Jets would
be limited offensively, and Fields isn't showing that, Like he
has the ability to kind of overcome what's around him
despite pretty good pass pro.
Speaker 4 (14:05):
Yeah, good pass pro. And honestly, he had a few
good throws. And I'm not taking this stance as the
Justin Fields defender because you can see the limitations, but
in better pass pro than we've seen for most of
the year, which is a nice encouraging thing to see
from the Jets. But like, he had a few throws
that were just flat out dropped and most of them
were ad Mitchell. And I'm a believer in ad Mitchell.
(14:26):
If he can figure out how to catch the football
because he.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Runs great seems important for a receiver, No.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Finish the job. You run great routes, you get open.
He's putting the ball right on you. You got to catch it.
You could tell he was kind of in his own head,
which has been the story of his second season in
the NFL. Really, but I mean, at one point in
the fourth court, Mitchell comes off the field after dropping
another pass, and I look at the guys out there,
and it's like John Metchi and Tyler Johnson, and I'm
just thinking, like half of this receiving corps wasn't even
(14:52):
on this team to start the season, Like this is
such a team in transition. It's a tough situation for fields,
but it is not the sole explanation for this offense struggles.
I was surprised to see him do better as a
passer tonight, even if some of those passes weren't completed,
because he's been so bad for them for most of
this season, and yet the result ends up being the
same because they can't get out of their own way
(15:14):
very often.
Speaker 5 (15:14):
He runs for sixty seven yards with a touchdown. Need
to see more of that, I think from him.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
Yeah, But then the Patriots shut it down in the
second half, like it wasn't really a viable option, and
especially when you go down by two scores.
Speaker 3 (15:25):
You know, they can't stretch the field.
Speaker 4 (15:26):
You knew this game was basically over, which is the
story of a team that's two and eight.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Yeah, they had a two game winning Street coming in
and even though he threw the ball better, he ends
up with one hundred and sixteen yards and twenty six
attempts sol though obviously if eighty Mitchell had caught a
couple of those passes, that'll be I'm already seeing this
should be the last we see of justin fields stuff
from for instance, the Athletic I saw put that out there,
and like maybe, first of all, Tyrod Taylor is very
(15:50):
unlikely to stay healthy for the rest of the season,
which it would be what still like seven more games,
Like that's probably not gonna happen. Anyways, I think they
have some pieces. Their tackles are good, Olu Fashionu and
and on the other side, Membu have played well and
I think that's something to build around, along with Breese Hall.
(16:12):
But just just too many mistakes, including like you know,
penalties in big Spot. You know, a couple like unnecessary
roughness penalties that they didn't need. They had a holding
penalty which gave the Patriots a field goal attempt at
the end of the first half. It was just a
lot of mental errors. And I just don't get this
thing with Aaron Glenn. He won't say who his quarterback
(16:34):
is until like game time. It was literally Thursday afternoon,
and Albert Breer was like, Justin Fields is probably going
to be the starting quarterback. You don't really see that
too often in twenty twenty five, but it's like, why
such a mystery? And then the way Glenn is sometimes
acting when reporters ask him questions. Here's Aaron Glenn actually
(16:54):
earlier this week when asked about Garrett Wilson, who, by
the way, was placed on injured reserve on Thursday.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
I'm going to pass on talking about injuries since you're Rich.
Oh he's not here. He has all the answers, so
you can, guys, get all the injuries from Rich.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
It's like he's talking about Rich Simini, by the way,
who reported that Garrett Wilson would be out three to
four weeks, and then a couple of days later they
put him on injured reserve, which literally announces that he's
out for four weeks, and he gets, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
Know, it's just unnecessary. It's a first year coach kind
of trying to figure it out. It reminds me a
little bit of Jerrod Mayo and the way that he
dealt with the media.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
He's been Patriots last season.
Speaker 4 (17:35):
He's better at it than Mayo, as Mayo was kind
of a disaster in that department. But it's just like
it's unnecessary. I understand you're frustrated and you're upset that
information gets.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Out with steal the cracks building rest doing his job.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
It's the agent. It's also like, don't worry about other things.
It's really it's really not that important. Shout out to
Christian Barmore, by the way, who gets a sack tonight.
It is his first since missing almost all last season
with blood clots, but he had a couple pressures. He
has been good for the Patriots defense, which I still
have my questions about. I don't think they're going to
(18:07):
be good enough to get through an AFC gauntlet. You know,
people in Foxborough are dreaming about the Super Bowl because
if you look at their schedule, they are now nine
and two. They are going to be heavy favorites in
at least like four of their remaining games, and then
they also have the Bills and the Ravens on the schedule, Like,
it is pretty easy to see them getting to thirteen wins,
(18:29):
which will give them a good chance at winning the
division and possibly even being the one seed. And then,
of course you dream about the Super Bowl. I have
my questions about whether the defense could get it done
in this AFC, But if ever there was a year
to do it, I guess this might be the year.
Depends depends where the other guys are you buying? Before
(18:49):
we move on to the quarterbacks Patriots, Like, where do
you put them in the AFC hierarchy of teams most
likely to make the Super Bowl?
Speaker 2 (18:58):
I'll say it that way.
Speaker 5 (19:00):
So you have the Bills, of course, you have the Chiefs,
you have the Chargers, you have the Ravens if you
want to throw in the Steelers out of out of respect,
and the Broncos certainly, where do you put the Patriots
in that group?
Speaker 3 (19:12):
M I mean, let's not forget the Colts too.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Colts. Oh my god, I'd been banging the Colts drama.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Yes, okay, So I want to give some credit to like, like,
this defense has put together a season that is much
better than we thought it would be.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Like the play of.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Klevon Chasson, for example. Yeah, you know, he's leading them
in sacks. He's been great for most of this year.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
But I also and you have.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
Christian Gonzalez back there, and you got Marcus Jones and
everything else. But this is also a defense that was
largely patched together by a lot of off season additions,
Milton Williams being one of them, Robert Spoline being another one.
And I saw a weakness tonight that makes me concerned
about how they could perform against a team like Baltimore.
I don't think they have a linebacker who could effectively
(19:54):
spy a running quarterback, and that could be their biggest
weakness exactly.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Jack Gibbons isn't getting it done for Jack Gibbins actually
played pretty well. He's actually played pretty well for them
since he got inserted in a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
But yeah, yes, but given Splaine, none of those guys
could spy a Lamar and so I think that could
be their weakness.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
But I do Mahomes or maybe even Daniel Jones, and.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
That's gonna take a lot of discipline and defensive integrity,
and I don't know if they've gotten enough time together
to really do that in the biggest spots. But I
do think that they'll give every team they play a
game because of what we've seen from this offense.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
It's a little bit inflated.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
Like there was what three or four years ago where
the Vikings I was like, that's one of the most
overrated twelve thirteen win teams whatever they were that year
that I've ever seen, the most fraudulent, and they proved
that when they lost to the Giants in the playoffs.
I wouldn't say the same thing about these Patriots. I
just don't think their ceiling is as high as the
Super Bowl.
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So I would agree with you, Yeah, it's going to
depend on the matchups. But like I said, it's crazy
nine and two. It does make me feel like, Okay,
we're here, We're we're at a point in the season
where a team can be nine and two and Yeah,
they only have six geames left, and four of them
are against the Bengals, Giants, Jets, and Dolphins. Doesn't mean
(21:01):
they're going to win all four, but they'll be favored
in all of them. I give them a chance to
win any game but one and done in the playoffs.
Also wouldn't be a surprise depending on the matchup, but
I give them a chance because of their quarterback.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Let's take a break.
Speaker 5 (21:12):
And we will redraft the twenty twenty four quarterback class.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
After the break back on NFL Daily, it's time.
Speaker 5 (21:24):
It's the twenty twenty four quarterback class redraft. Okay college
tape matters, NFL tape matters more. Based on the now
year and a half sample size, we have of one
of the best quarterback classes we have seen of the
last twenty years. We are going to redraft this much
(21:45):
debated class and we'll each give our picks, but I
want to hear yours first. Who goes first? Out of
your quarterbacks? There's really only a couple options. I would
assume it's only Drake May or Jayden Daniels.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
But who do you go?
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Yeah, and you can accuse me of recency bias. I
don't care.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
It's Drake May, home run, slam dunk, Drake May. Easy
choice because of what we just described.
Speaker 5 (22:07):
Yeah, we talked about him a lot on the show already.
I think it's clear just because of the style of play.
And I got some pushback already on social of just like, look,
Jayden led his team to multiple playoff wins where he
was the biggest reason by far they won those games
as a rookie, and I think that's all fair, and
(22:29):
I think if you want to say it's a little unfair,
and we'll just talk about these two guys now together
because I have May number one in Jayden two. You
can tell me if you have Jayden two in a second,
but we'll talk about Jayden. I think like the durability
stuff is somewhat fair to talk about with Jayden because
of his frame. And then I just think with how
(22:51):
unique that offense was, you have to worry just a
little bit more than May long term about how he
keeps in pro and stacking how he is as a quarterback.
That said, I think he is so sharp and has
so many assets beyond his incredible athleticism that's Jade Daniels
and its incredible accuracy that frankly, I'm not that worried
(23:15):
about his ability to evolve as a player and an
excellent quarterback, and he would still be in my top
ten quarterbacks I want long term, and I'm still like
very high on where Jaden Daniels' career goes.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It's mostly just the durability.
Speaker 5 (23:33):
And the size, which I think is a skill that
makes me take May over Jadon Daniels.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Yeah, when we look at his career in hindsight, whenever
it ends this is a season we will completely throw
out the window like a professor throws out your lowest
test score, you know, at the end of the semester,
like it's it's completely incomplete. This evaluation this season because
he's been hurt three separate times. He's had a number
of guys around him get hurt. The circumstances surrounding him
have been terrible, and quarterbacks in the league it comes
(24:01):
down to two things usually for them, talent, slash ability
and experience. That's all like in one bucket, and the
other bucket is situation. And the situation for him last
year he elevated this team, but he also had enough
around him to capitalize and maximize what they were going
to do that season, and he did the rest of
the work, which is why he had such a great season.
He had an offensive Rookie of the Year season. We
(24:22):
all held him in high regard. This year, all of
that fell apart. That does not diminish how I see him,
but I do think the durability questions are valid because
of his size, like you said, because of what we
saw this season and his style of play.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Somebody who extends the play, somebody they liked the.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Run read option, with that whole dynamic element of his game,
it matters long term. Now, we said the same things
about Lamar early in his career. He has missed some games,
but it hasn't been as much of an issue as
we thought it would be, and I think the same
will be true for Jaden overall. But the durability is
the reason that I would put him right behind Drake
May at this point after only you know, almost two seasons.
Speaker 5 (24:59):
You know, I think Leabar came into the league with
better pure pocket passing skills, at least that were translatable
from a pro offense that he played in college, Which
is why I always laugh when Kirk Kirkstry just keeps
talking about how much he's improved and like he wasn't
a pocketbaster. He was always that guy. Now he has
of course improved Lamar. That is I just think Jayden,
like I want to see him in different types of offenses.
(25:19):
But it's a small thing. By the way, if May
winds up getting let's say, top five MVP votes, that
type of thing, top three MVP votes. I did a
little research while that second half was going on second
year quarterbacks to win MVP. Patrick Mahomes and of course
he didn't even start his rookie year. Lamar Jackson, Dan
Marino Ye and then Kurt Warner, who was an interesting
(25:42):
case because he played you know, arena ball and he
was twenty eight years old, but he was a second
year quarterback.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
That's about it.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
Peyton Manning came in second in the MVP as a
second year player, So it's rare, like all time greatest
stuff to get that high in the end, I personally
don't think think May is gonna wind up with the
m v P, but even to get in the mix
is rare stuff. And you know, for what it's worth,
now that we have more voters, you can go one
through what five on the m v P. Jane Daniels
(26:11):
came in seventh last year, so like he was, he
was in the mix last year, all right, is Jade
and your number two pick, by the way, should have confronted.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
He is, okay, And I just want to expand that
real quick because I was thinking about top five MVP
guys right now, and you hate MVP discussions at this
point in the season.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
I'm just gonna throw it out there.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Matthew Stafford, Baker Mayfield, Drake May, Jonathan Taylor option number
five like May is very much in that conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Oh Man, May's ahead of all those guys that order.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I was just throwing those out there.
Speaker 5 (26:39):
Yeah, I still just the way that Herbert and Mahomes
have played, I'd probably have Stafford, May, Herbert and Mahomes
would probably be.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
That's my top four.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
But Taylor Taylor is right there too, Okay, is number
three Caleb Williams for you.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yes it is. And I think this is the end
of a clear.
Speaker 4 (26:59):
Like lineup demarcation in this group, because look, Caleb is
not super consistent over four quarters, and I'm going to
say the same thing about vote NICKX later in this group,
but what he has done over the last month and
a half and his partnership with Ben Johnson makes me
think that he can actually live up to expectation. His
fourth quarter play in some of these games is just
(27:21):
absolutely scintillating, like just injected in my veins. Caleb Williams, clutch,
Gene I wish I could just spread it to everybody
on the planet that they could perform under pressure like
he does, whether it's running, whether it's throwing. The moment
is never too big for him, and he has those
natural abilities that again he doesn't necessarily show off over
an entire game, but God, when he scrambles and just
lets that arm rip, that is special.
Speaker 3 (27:43):
He has an arm that is very rare, and once they.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Harness that over the course of a full four quarters,
he's gonna be one of the best quarterbacks in the
league as long as he stays in this track.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
And age matters a little bit to me here. And
you know, Caleb Williams is twenty three years old. He
is more than a year younger than Jade Daniels. For instance,
Drake May is almost another year younger even than Caleb Williams,
which which is crazy. Caleb's about to turn twenty four.
You know, May just turned twenty three, so that I
(28:13):
think bolsters May's case.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
In general.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
I always thought, at least coming into this season, that
Caleb Williams' floor is higher than people realize, that he
showed more than enough as a rookie that I was like, oh,
like his floor is cutlersh which it's kind of where
he is now, right, Like people will mock that, but
Jay Cutler like kept getting one hundred million dollar contracts
because he was like the twelfth best player in the
(28:39):
league and sometimes he looked like you know, quarterback in
the league, and sometimes he looked like the eighth, but
he wasn't the consistent guy that you want.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That's his floor.
Speaker 5 (28:45):
I think it's gonna end up being higher than that,
and I think we've seen a steady improvement that, like
the way he plays is so special that it really
can create plays that even Drake May and Jane Daniels
can't make, and that he's in moving on all the
other stuff like players do because like they're young and
the experience is gonna help so to me situation, to me,
(29:08):
his ceiling still might be like as high as Jaden
and Drake Mays.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I don't think it's that crazy to say.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
I just think you have to base a pick like
this off of what we've seen so far, and their
ceilings are still sky high, and we've just seen I
think some of the next level processing and everything like
that more than Caleb Williams to this point.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
But I think he.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
I think Bears fans feel great about him now, maybe
significantly better than they did at the starting of the season.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Maybe I'm wrong, Yeah, you know what.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
You know how I know they're feeling better about it
because they're getting in my DMS more when I don't
rank them.
Speaker 5 (29:45):
Okay, speaking of which, I am very curious. And this
is where it gets even more interesting. Who is number
four for you?
Speaker 4 (29:52):
This is gonna be tough, but I would probably put
Bonnicks there.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Okay, I did.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Too, and I had to like really look at myself
the mirror and say, is that just because I'm afraid
of the Broncos fans? And I haven't answered that question
in my soul because if it was my team, would
I really take bo Nicks over Pennex and JJ and Rattler.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
I don't know, but.
Speaker 3 (30:16):
At this point, for what he's done, I think I would.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
I am a firm believer that eventually they are going
to figure this out, that his lack of consistency, his
absolute disappearing acts until the fourth quarter of some of
these games, is just a product of them not quite
getting their bearings offensively, which doesn't make sense because Sean
this is not Sean Payton's first year there, it's not
his first year with bow Knicks, but there's been a
difference in offensive style.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
It's almost like they've tried to force.
Speaker 4 (30:40):
Themselves square peg into a round hole and they're now
starting to pull back on that and realize, maybe that's
not what we should do. Like last year, they would
roll bow out so much, get him out on the perimeter,
and that's where he was really good. You don't see
that intentionally nearly as much this year. I think there's
been more of a focus on the ground game, which
I think at times has limited their offense. It's just
like they have they don't know what they want to be,
and the lack of identity has held them back until
(31:02):
they absolutely need to turn it on. And I think
that in the moments in which he turns on, you
can see how special he can be. Can we see
it over at least a half or maybe three quarters.
I'm not even asking for all four quarters. That, combined
with what I saw from him last year, save for
the wild mistakes that he tended to make in the
back half of last year, makes me believe that he
can be there. His ceiling is not as high as
the first three guys we talked about, But I feel
(31:24):
better about guys that are no because of the product
that I've seen so far than Pennix or JJ McCarthy,
for example.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
I think McCarthy probably has the highest ceiling of the
four remaining quarterbacks. I am including Rattler here, but bo
Nicks is turning twenty six in in February, and he's
just played a lot of football and he will continue
to improve, of course he will, but the fact that
he's played a lot of football, you do wonder, like
(31:50):
how how dramatic that improvement is going to be. Ultimately,
I did put him forth because I think he's proven
he's an NFL QB and and like that's a real thing,
Like he's an NFL starting quarterback. He's in a perfect
system for him right now, and there's every reason to
believe that he will be able to improve as he goes.
(32:11):
And ultimately, I think with the athleticism and frankly he's
made more impressive downfield throws consistently than Michael Pennix, McCarthy
is just a total wild card, and so we'll get
to him. I agree with you with bo at four
In the end, that's that's where I went. And it
wasn't just because I'm afraid of Broncos fans.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
But no, you can come to Cleveland. I'm a man,
I'm thirty three. To quote Mike Gundy, Okay, it's five.
This is hard.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
This is hard because are we talking about potentially? Are
we talking about product?
Speaker 2 (32:44):
We're talking about a redraft.
Speaker 5 (32:46):
So you're starting, so it's basically potential because you're starting
your Nick Shook League, your team, and you have him
for the next four years or whatever. You know, it's
a redraft, you're draft in him. Who do I got
for good? And that's why I say it's like interesting
bo versus JJ, for instance, because JJ is more of
the mystery box right now, but he is maybe a
(33:07):
little toolsy, a little toolsier. Pennix has the bigger arm
you like. I like how he carries himself. I like
a lot of the things about him, but I haven't
loved what's on the field as much.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
So who is your your fifth guy? Now?
Speaker 3 (33:22):
The mystery box could be anything. He'd even be a boat.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
God.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I think I'm gonna go with McCarthy.
Speaker 4 (33:27):
This goes against everything that I've felt about this class.
I felt McCarthy was overrated coming out of Michigan not well,
primarily because the whole thing about him was, Oh.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
He's a winner. He's rarely ever lost. He does make
a lot of plays. He did it at Michigan.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
He's done it at times in his very brief NFL
career so far, where he has the athleticism to take off,
run and and you know, pick up the key downs.
And I think that will benefit him over the course
of his career. It's just that, like, I have the
most recent performance in my brain right now, and it
burned my eyes watching that game against the Ravens, just
the missed throws, the.
Speaker 5 (34:01):
This is your franchise for the next five yearsook?
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, I do you just took it. You just took him.
Speaker 5 (34:08):
I was saying, here we go, Okay. I think that's
probably the right move. I wrote down Pennix ahead of
him because I think I'm sticking to my priors. I
think his floor is Okay, Michael Pennix, you do worry,
you know, you think about his early sample size last year,
and that looked really good right off the bat. Michael
(34:30):
Pennox and I think he quarterbacks are going to have
their ups and downs, and I think he's in a
little bit of a lull. His floor is higher JJ
right now. I just don't know from snap to snap
what's going to happen. And I do worry a little
bit because he has been in that building. Everyone's like, well,
it's his rookie years.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
It's okay.
Speaker 5 (34:51):
I mean you did get the benefit of being with
Kevin O'Connell and being in an NFL building for a
year and a half. It's not exactly his his rook
I mean, I know Patrick Mahomes was on on the
field and everything, but he didn't play his rookie you know,
rookieyear Like I I just think, let's say he was
Drake May for instance, or he was Jayden Daniels, like
(35:12):
you would know it after that, you know, being in
the building and stuff like.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Joe Burrow, you know it in week two of the
rookie season.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
That That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
And so do you take what I think is with
Pennix a pretty a decent floor. Is he going to
be like at at the Dalton scale line, you know,
right in the middle, like that could be Michael Pennox's outcome. Obviously,
you hope hope for better because he does have limitations.
I don't love a quarterback that that's not consistently accurate.
(35:40):
And that's kind of what Pennix is right now. A
guy who can run pretty fast in a straight line.
That's not his his mo at all, But the once
or twice he does it, you're like, oh, you can
do that. You just want to see him do it more.
But it's just not natural for his game. It never was.
Whereas JJ McCarthy, I think is a better athlete and
plays with a little more aggress So I just changed
(36:00):
my pick. We haven't thrown the cart up. I am
taking Macarthy over Penix. Ultimately, I think I would think.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Ran out and did a lot of hem and haw,
And that's.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
What I do.
Speaker 5 (36:10):
If the clock ran out on me, like this podcast
would get canceled, you know too much, Honky, I'm taking
I'm taking JJ now. I tucked myself into it because
you know what, I don't want to aim for the
middle and I do. I'd rather flame out with Kyle
Bowler just hoping that that's hoping, hoping that it's actually
(36:31):
Lamar Jackson instead of just like aiming for I don't know,
someone else, yeah, yeah, instead of aiming for someone in
the middle. But I hope for more for Penix. I
guess that means Rattler is is seven for you.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Yeah, but you know what, it's not a big gap.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
I would love to see the Saints trade Spencer Rattler
to the Jets or the Browns and see how it works,
because I know he had a really hard crash and
burn those couple of games, but the tape before was
really encouraging and I was on board baby he is.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
I mean, he was an older prospect too, but he's
a little younger than Penix and Knicks, and I don't
think his tape was much worse than or much different
than Pennox and Knicks.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
So maybe I'm buying, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
The the pre draft kind of hype that I'm just
grading off the draft even even now, because I don't
think his tape was much worse. The problem was he
wasn't quite aggressive enough for a guy that I think
would need to play that way. And when I'm saying
that size as a skill, like McCarthy and Pennex are
much more of the build and like the prototype of
what you want out of a quarterback compared to Raller.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
So I'm I'm self hating here.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
I'm picking on the short guys, you know, not the
Rallery short, but for a quarterback, you know relative.
Speaker 4 (37:47):
I mean, there are there are shorter guys that are
still in the league and ones on ir right now.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
That is a topic of conversation that we've talked about.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
And he was a number one overall pick. That That's what.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
I'm saying Patriots fans, like you can get all the
way up to the number one pick, and then you
can have Kyler Murray and you can be like not
totally sure about him six seven years later. Same thing
with like Justin I mean with Trevor Lawrence, or you know,
certainly with the Darnolds and even the Bakers in their
first spots. You know at times snow guarantee. We know now,
all right, we did it, Nick Schook, We had a
(38:19):
great show. Appreciate everyone checking out the TNF preview. We
will be back in the feed with my week eleven
picks with myself and Cynthia Freeland. By the way, we're
back in the studio here on a Thursday night. I
know that makes Chris Babona feel like a little more alive.
He doesn't like it when I go home.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
When I'm I'm in the home studio.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (38:41):
Check out my picks six week witting streak right now
with the picks against the spread.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
We'll see you there
Host
Gregg Rosenthal
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