Kevin Mawae: Blocking for 1,000-yard rushers, How He Helped Change the Current NFL, Training Camp Pancakes

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But if I had to put one over the other,
it would be my dad to watching work in the military.
My dad's uniform was starch. They never looked sloppy. I mean, man,
it's like it was details and that those things mold you.
I think everybody should be able to say that their

(00:22):
mom and dads are number one people.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
What's up? Everybody on peanuts to him?

Speaker 3 (00:33):
And this is the NFL Player's Second Act podcast with
me as always my trusy co host Roman Harper, Roman Harper, Yeah, let's.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Go, let's go.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
That was That was That was the first thought.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
I liked that one.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Hey, yeah, man, really looking forward to this gentleman. Who
our next guest? Another Hall of famer. But then at
the same time, I actually played against this one, So
I think we all have yes so excited about that
at one point or another.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Oh yeah, he's a Hall of Fame. Garden Center played
sixteen years in the league, six time first team All Pro,
eight time Pro bowler. Ladies, gentlemen, please welcome Kevin. But
why to the show. Now, Let's let's get into the conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
When I was trying to.

Speaker 3 (01:21):
Start it is so flaps.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, I was. I was a flap, guy, I have
my flap was shown, so flaps meaning backflaps on the
back of shoulder pads. We're mentioning it because Kevin was saying, like, oh,
I just wanted I was looking over my notes like
and Kevin was like, you know, it's just like right
before you hit the field. You know, my gloves tight,
no wrinkles in my jersey for me as a dB,
I'm like, my backflap needs to be out. Like I

(01:44):
got to show off the back flap. I don't know why,
but we got to show off the back flap. I
was like, Peter, what you want one? I definitely And
Kevin has a very strong opinion and I kind of agree,
and I don't get it. But since we have you
in here, offensive lineman with flaps, yay or nay?

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Absolutely not. All I say is like, I don't want
to get hurt when I get put on my back.
I mean, I mean, if you're playing office line and
you're on your feet the whole time and you're the
one pancaking guys so driving them down the field, what
is there ever a need for you to have a
backflap other than you want to look.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Cool, you want to look cool.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
You want your swag?

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Were you a don joy those the knee braces? Did
you have those?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
I didn't have the big A cl ones. I had
the old school They are lotteral braces only on the outside.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
But I start wearing way back in the day, back
in high school. They don't even make my brand anymore,
you know, because you know everybody's now wearing the ones
that fitted the orthopedic ones. I was just like two
side braces and protect yourself from getting smoked from the sign.
I start wearing those back.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
So what do you feel about left tackles wearing the
back flap? Because sometimes the running back is chipping and
they get hit one time.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
It's like, yeah, I don't even know what to say.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
It's like, you know what, don't.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Go Yeah, It's like, you know, it's it's part of
the game. You know, It's not he's hitting in the
back all the time. Sure, you're one of the really
great offensive tackles. You're not asking for help anyways, you
know the guys. I go ask Bruce Matthews if he
ever asked for running backs for chip hip out here,
he probably be like, yeah, maybe once or twice in
his whole career. But no, I mean, but you know,

(03:28):
but now there's common too. I got shots in it.
Back running back, run right up in the middle. Yeah,
it strokes you right down to spinal taps.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
You.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Yeah, I can understand you why you guys wear it, but.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
It's just not it's it's not to.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Look offense line. You're just saying, hey, I follow my
back a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Okay, all right, I like that. Okay, Kevin, what was
your first Welcome to the NFL moment?

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Nineteen ninety four?

Speaker 2 (03:53):
We're in answer.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Oh yeah, no, I need this right off the bat too. Really.
Nineteen ninety four, we're playing in Husky Stadium for you
young guys. The Kingdome was where I was playing. But
the tiles fell there. Fell fell right before preseason started
from the ceiling. So they had to scrape all tiles
and we do it. So we played in Husky Stadium.
We're playing against Tampa Bay and I'm I'm the second

(04:17):
team long snapper, so the second half is mine and
I snapped the ball on a punt. I'm running down
card on no nose, just keep looking up. I'm running
like this. So here's the thing. I got the NFL.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
This is cool.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
I'm not wearing knee braces. I don't have my mouthpiece
in you know the NFL. You cleaning iPad?

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, you don't have to know.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
And I'm stroking. I'm running down sideline like this looking
for the ball. And to this day, I have no
clue who hit me. Caught me under the chin. I
am went up bit my lip came of blood's coming out.
I'm like training, you got a mouthpiece in there, so
and I was. I still I go on YouTube videos

(04:57):
preseason nineteen ninety four Seahawks vers versus Tampa Bay and
that I can't find the video because I want to
figure out who not that matters, but I just like,
I still don't know who hit me. I have no
clue who hit.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
And sometimes YouTube they don't put on the punts.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
No, but sometimes you get the whole game though somebody
I was put up the whole game. So I still
they have no idea who hit me? I sayeah, this
is real.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Did you long snap in college?

Speaker 1 (05:20):
I did as long start. I started long stipeing in
high school, so I was there's times when I was
a starting long snapper. Then the guy the guy in
and he gets hurt, and I have to do it.
I did it all the way through my sixteen years.
Had to snap a few games and my last couple
of you know, a couple of years with Titans. When
the guy gets down, blows his shoulder out or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Hated it. Hated it.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Why you're protected. They made rules to protect you.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
They were. Now when I was.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
There, bro, I was, okay, punt snap snapped the ball.
I was. I was. If you're the guard, you know
you're going to get free because I ain't running down.
I'm gonna pick for you because I'm not. I just
finished ten play drive and all out of the fifty
yard line. Yeah, I'm gassed, you know. And then on
top of that, I'm two hundred and eighty five pounds
with knee braces. I got neck roll on. You think
I'm gonna make a tackle, No, I said, I pick.

(06:11):
I'm running down the field, and look this will happen.
One time I picked the guy for the guards folds
behind me. I start, the guy's got he's holding me up.
I'm like, dude, I'm not making the tackle. I'm not
even trying to make the tackle. And I see this
if I look down and see that I'd make a
ninety degree turn agideline. I don't even try to run
it out. All the skill guys go down there, run

(06:31):
past the guy and the jaw. I'm gonna get you
next time, bro.

Speaker 3 (06:35):
I just appreciate that you play special teams like you
did A ten play drive. I've I played. You play
sposor teams all sixteen years. I play spposor a team
all thirteen years. I ten play drive whatever, and they punt,
I'm still running down. I'm still covering the gunner. This
guy right here never plays special teams his entire career,
like he just he just didn't do it. Oh my

(06:55):
just high dollar guy, high dollar guy. First of all,
high dollar guy.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Neither one of you guys are gonna count my blessings
on this podcast. That's number one, all right. Number two
is he was the backup long snapper. I was.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
It was not like I was.

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Here's a story, so, man, I snapped in high school.
I snapped in college, and uh I remember the first
game I went to go snaping in college was L
s u Or playing Miami of Ohio, and I hurt
my shoulder applied to I just went to cut a
guy and landed on my shoulder kind of hurt, and
I'm like talking about the snap and I rolled it back.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Man, I got you talking about getting chewed out by coach.
And so if anyways, I missed two weeks, so I
had to rehab my shoulder. So so that happens, and
then we go and for so I'm a free agent
nineteen ninety eight, I go from Seattle to the New
York Jets. Bill Parcells is the head coach, and I
had this conversation with a coach. Just look, I said,
I know that, you know that I know how to

(07:48):
deep snap. I said, I don't want to do it.
I don't want to be on special teams. Hey, mawahy,
I'm not gonna pay you the kind of money I'm
gonna pay you to be a deep snapper. You ain't
gotta worry about it. Tin camp comes around. First day
of training camp. Mike Sweatman is a special teams coach.
You see depth chart and then Bill Pails parcels like,
you're on the depth chart for punt team. Make sure

(08:10):
you out there for special teams. I'm like, dude, now
I got to spend extra thirty minutes a special team,
and I got out there early for special teams practice
and I got to do the halfway through. Now I'm
the starting center. All my reps are starting center, and
you know, this way you can appreciate guys the full
time starters that are full time specially. But then I
got I'm a big guy. I'm supposed to be like
chilling out with the boys down in the shade or

(08:32):
doing extra past sets because usually have the special team
is always like one on one pass rushes right next whatever.
I'm down there running and covering punts before one on
one pass rush and parcels like and why you like
the depth chart? I say, hell no, I don't like.
But I never I was never the starter. But guys,
you know, get hurt or whatever. And it's okay if

(08:54):
you get hurt like a like the Sunday, and then
you got to prepare your mind for it. But your
special team's got to get hurt. Had a game and
you had no inclination even going out there, and now
your whole mindset changes.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
And so can I ask one more question about special teams? Yeah?
And Kevin, so if you didn't get smoked your first
preseason game, would your mind have been different about running
down on coverage, because no, it wouldn't have been different.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Because well, yeah, as a special teams guy, especially on
punk coverage, you know not to just keep looking at
the ball the whole Hell yeah, I mean I already
knew this, but I'm sitting there like this is preseason.
I mean it's like, you know, no big deal. Well
I didn't realize that. So there's some dudes out there.
That's the only report to make the club. I got smoked.

(09:43):
So that was one. But then another one was my
rookie year. So I go into training game, I'm a
week and a half holdout back then that's when the
rookie showed up two weeks early, in two weeks whatever.
So I was a week and a half holdout and
we go to practice and then uh, we go to
one on one pass rush and they don't put me
against like just another rookie in the club. Cortes Kennedy

(10:03):
coming off defensive player of the Year. He taps together
on the guy I don't even know who was. Hey, man,
get the way I got this rook I looked at
test and I'm like, this is gonna be bad, and
I didn't win the REP. But I didn't get embarrassed.
That's all I can say. I was like, all right,
this is what football, this is what's been the NFL
is all. But I gotta play this kind of guy
every week. That's when I just in my mindset just

(10:24):
changed from that perspective. And so, yeah, those are the
two moments.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
RP. Cortez Kennedy.

Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, you hold twenty twelve, you hold the record for
having played in ninety games, and there was one hundred
yard rusher and then there have been you have had
a thousand yard rusher in thirteen of your sixteen seasons.
That's Curtis Smarten, Chris Warren, Lindel White, Lindell White. Excuse me,

(10:51):
Chris Johnson, what do you think about that stat right there?
That's the hell of a status.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
You know, I didn't know those You don't think those
are stats. You don't know until you come through this
process of the Hall of Fame, because your presenters are
they got to put these one one shooters together. And
the thing that I didn't know then the ninety hundred,
ninety or ninety two hundred yard rushing games. Yeah, that's
a lot of hundre yard rushers and I you know,

(11:16):
and that's something I didn't I didn't know they tracked
those things. And so that's one of the ones I'm
most proud of. And then the thirteen hundred, the thirteen
thousand yard running ranks because because at this is the reason.
Why is his offensive lineman only known if you sacks,
you give up sacks or penalties, or you hurt the team.
But the great offensive line groups, not just individuals, but

(11:39):
the units are known for how well they're.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Running back running football.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Yeah, and that's why you know, even in today's game,
you got like Jason Kelcey and the Philadelphia Eagles, they
had a great passing game, they ran the ball, and
all these other teams and the teams are playing late
in the year, what do they do well? And so
so I was proud to be a moment of those.

(12:02):
And there's some of those guys that you just Curtis
Martin still wows me. He won the Russian title, is
the oldest guy to run the Russian title at the time,
I think two thousand and three, and he never had
to run over twenty yards in that year. So I
means we just all grounded out and yeah, those are
the two stats that I'm most proud of.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
All right, you you just gave me a little bit
about Curtis Martin. I want to know about all those
those thousand yard guys and uh kind of each individual? Yeah,
all right, so what like like what the first thing
that kind of comes to mind when I remind you
when I maybe their style of running or who they were, whatever,
whatever comes to your mind. I don't want to leave

(12:39):
you anywhere. Curtis Martin.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
Not flashy at all. We called him cought from behind Kurt.
He was never gonna run past you. You know, he
was never gonna want you. If he gotten second level,
he can get down there. But if you had to
go to eighty, you know he's not He's somebody's gonna
catch him. But consummate pro And he sat in the
old line room with us when we watched film. He

(13:03):
wanted to know where the combination blocks were. He wanted
to know where like if I was pulling in the
open field where I thought I was turning up. And
he was a very patient runner. As far as comparing
him to somebody, I really I really don't know who
I can compare him to. In today's game because he's got,
he's got, he's a He was a bigger like stock
her back, but he wasn't flashy. It wasn't big, but

(13:26):
intuitive and very smart, set his blocks up like nobody
ever played with Chris Warren. He was Derrick Henry before
Derrick Henry, big back, big back I'm talking about, and
we were inside outside zone smooth, but he was big
back and uh, the very patient runner we were. We

(13:46):
were a zone heavy team. Yeah, and uh, another patient runner.
But he can but he can break away. It will
look like he wasn't running very fast, but you weren't
going to catch him. Yeah, all right, Lynndale White, it's
hard to talk about Lyndall without talking about Lyndell.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
That's exactly what.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Usc coming off like a national title game. Him and
Vince Young, you know, we were all teammates together. But
he acts like he's from the streets, grew up in
a neighborhood with a gated fence. Great dude, man, He's
a great guy to have. But it was kind of
funny because he looked more like a fullback totally. And
he played and sometimes when him, you know, we had

(14:34):
crash and dashed in two thousand and eight with with
with Chris Johnson, and so he would play the fullback
role sometimes, so we had a big fullback with a
mod you know, mamad hall serage. But uh, but again,
he was a guy that you need a yard, you're
gonna take Chris Henry out and you're gonna put I
mean Chris Johnson out, and you're gonna put Lindell in.

(14:55):
We're gonna smash it up in there, and he's gonna
get the other yard for you. Okay, all right. Funny dude,
he is funny. He's funny.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
He looked funny in his jersey too, because he's kind
of Yeah, he doesn't look like a football kowski the kicker.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
He looked like he was that is great.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Not so round, but you can see his belly a
little bit. He likes. So he played Kansas City and
this is one that I didn't know he had this
in him. We're playing Kansas City in Arrowhead and we
had two hundred rushers that day, Chris and and him,
and we're we're minus forty yard line when we're running
against eight man box and we're stacking the box for us,
and so they've got bear defense. Eight man box. Dude

(15:35):
breaks it, gets past the second level and he takes.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
It to the house.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
But he's gassed. You see he's looking at the scoreboard.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
You know you's behind it.

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Yeah, but he's gassed. But he pulled away from everybody.
He I think he shocked everybody on the team. But
I love that, all right. Last one Chris Johnson Magical, magical,
that kid can go. And so we were playing early
in his I think it was his first year and
maybe this preseason something. And he pulled away, broke the

(16:05):
second level, hit the sideline and was gone. And he
didn't he wasn't running. He was just kind of striding,
like you're doing ten yards striders, yea. And I asked him,
was Chris, Like, how fast were you going? He's probably
about forty five and he was smoking this cruisy. So
he was a guy like so and nine when we

(16:25):
we uh, we were chasing Eric Dickerson's record, we we
got eliminated, so we eliminated the playoffs. We had like
four or five games to go. So then the whole
team took on the responsibility of chasing this record. Wide
receivers like run my way, I'm gonna stalk this guy. Down,
you know, and that kind of stuff. But he was

(16:45):
the guy if you if you got the second level,
if you cover your linebacker up and you see Chris
run pass, he just stopped blocking, starting to walk to
the sideline because nobody's gonna catch him. And I've done
that one or two times. He just took off and
I'm you know, I'm in the numbers. So I just
walks the sideline. Mike Munchak, my old line coach. He
goes and I'm sitting out that he's had head across
the goal line yet. Yeah, I'm sitting on the sideline already,

(17:07):
was like, what are you doing. I said, nobody's gonna
catch him. I'm not running eighty yards to go celebrate,
so I'll drap him up when he comes back. But
he can go. He could go, and it was it
was fun to watch and chasing Eric's record in that
nine season that was pretty special. And we went We
went two thousand and six yards that year. I think
he's the fifth back in the history to go over
two thousand yards and that was a That was the

(17:29):
last game of my career, so that was pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
Anyway, you made the Pro Bowl that year, I did yeah,
So what's so I think something that most uh uh,
what people don't know is what was the best gift
that you received from all the years that you've played
from the running backs at Christmas time? Because Christmas, because
Christmas time, the quarterback he gives he takes care of
the d line for well, I'll let you explain that.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
Explain quarterbacks take care of the offensive line. It used
to be way. I don't know how old are you,
forty four? Forty four and Roman about okay, So you
guys may or may not remember back in the day,
they used to have the Isotona gloves. Yeah, and Damn
Marinos like take care of the hands and take care
of you. So his gift to all the old linemen

(18:13):
were Isotona gloves, which are pretty sweet gloves.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
By the way, I remember I remember, do you not know?
I remember the infomercials.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
And they're they're warm. So but Damn Marino did commercials
from Isotona gloves and so I'm like, oh man, they
give you know. So I was like, that's my first
when I was like high school, thinking like they give
gifts to the lineman. So then you start hearing stories.
So as you're coming up through college and stuff. So
so the best running back gift I think I can

(18:44):
say that we've ever gotten. When Chris went two thousand
yards six yards, Chris gave the whole offensive lineman tag
Howard watches, Uh, diamond bezels, black tag, diamond watch. Nice
watch didn't fit me very well. It's just awkward deal.
And then Chris John and Chris, but Curtis Martin the
year he won the Russian title, bought the entire offensive

(19:06):
lineman three piece out of Louis uitan luggage three piece.
Yeah you got. You got the Duffel bag, a roller bag,
and then you got like a little shoulder strap bag
or something.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Like that that New York Fields. Yeah, that's Cis.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
Curtis smart. Curtis Martin wore the suits had like fifteen pockets,
not three pockets. But so that was it. And then
I think in ninety eight is the year we went
to the AFC Championship game. We Curtis started reeling off
hundred yard games. So we would have our team meeting
on Saturday night before the game, and if he ran

(19:40):
for hundred yards that that week before, he'd come in
before he broke the meeting and he'd pull off a
Chris hundred dollar bill to every guy in the offensive
line room and that was pretty cool. And then at
the end of that year, Benny Testford, who's now in
the year fourteen or somebody, mixed the Pro Bowl and
he that's the first time I ever got a roll
X watch. Benny bought me a roller X watching and
later on and Vince Young thirteen to three season eight,

(20:04):
he bought the entire office line of a Rolex watch
that year.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
He's got some good gifts, man, I'm telling you, dude,
Like Drew brought some really nice gifts for the old
line in New Orleans through the years as well.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Do you think one of his best ones was, Oh no,
the roll.

Speaker 5 (20:20):
Bro like you just their classics, Yeah, like they don't
like I like, for my tenth anniversary, my wife and
I bought uh matching Rolexes with diamonds and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
But the sub Mariner, it's just it's a classic watching
for anything you work out in it, you can do it.
And that's I still have those. I still those are
my two favorite watches I have.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
But then the cool one of the just things that
because I've heard of guys getting like ATVs and all
that kind of stuff. So in third we go thirteen
and three that year and Carrie Collins was all it
was quarterback. He goes, hey, I got something for you guys.
Come out in the back behind the equipment room. There
was a flatbed trailer at four wheelers, like Honda four

(21:03):
wheelers up there. Every off the lineman got a Honda
A TV that was pretty cool. So I'd already had one,
So I left out that one and I said it,
gave it to my brothers. I had just hold on
and whatever. I come back three months later, where's it?
Where's the four wheler? Oh? Bro, bills to pay?

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I sold it? Oh no, my brother sold the four wheeler.
Oh wow, Bro, you can't like you gave it to me.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
You even had gave me the title. I said, yeah,
but if I give you something, make sure we talk
about it, you know, So learn my lesson on that one.
But that was the four wheeler was was one. It
was an unexpected kind of just or something you would
expect her to watch or something like that. But carry
went off off.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Those are those are cool?

Speaker 1 (21:44):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
I want to go back to Curtis Martin a little bit.
I mean, not only was in an outstanding gift giver,
but he was my favorite running back to watch for
a couple of years when he was up there with
the Jets. You blocked for him for seven out of
his ten thousand yard seasons because you maybe just say,
I mean, that's already super unique. I don't know a
lot of running backs that stayed in meetings with the

(22:07):
offensive lineman to see like, okay, hey, when you're pulling
in this situation, what is offensive lineman thinking? So then
I know when he's out there in front of me
what he's thinking. So then I know already know I'm
setting up the block. That's such a unique detail that
most people don't know that running backs, well, especially if
his caliber, that they did. But maybe just kind of
go into other details that what made him so great,

(22:28):
what made him so important for that locker room, and
maybe who he was as a person or a team.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
I think Parcels said it at one time, is when
your best player in the locker room is the best
person in the locker room, maybe just an genuine person,
then you're gonna have a special locker room. And that
that's what that what Curtis was. That's what Curtis was.
Treated everybody right, respected everybody. You go in locker room
with with, you know, your best running back or receiver

(22:53):
or whatever, and there's a sense of ego about it.
And and Curtis wasn't that guy. He was humble guy.
Nobody knows what he did in his off time. I
mean he didn't just I mean he would be one
weekend he'd be down in Central Park playing chess with
homeless people, and the next weekend he's out giving food
out some of it, but you never knew about it.
He was a very humble person during that time. And

(23:17):
even today. I saw him last night and you ask
him what he does, and he really can. He's kind
of a mysterious dude.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
It's kind of like like Tommy or Martin.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
No one ever knew what he did.

Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, yeah, you don't know. But you know, he's not
doing anything wrong. He's not being nefarious about anything, he's
not trying to hide anything. He just he just lives
his life. And he and he said it in his
Hall of Fame speeches. He told people he said he
didn't love football. It was just a means to an
end for him. And I'm like, you can't go through
what I've seen Curtis go through in the times he
spent the training room and not love football. But I

(23:48):
also know, you know, he's a he's a spiritual man,
a man of faith and is a lot of us are,
and we're like, you know, we operate on a different
level for different reasons. And Curtis was that guy. But
if you ever look at any of his notes and
how meticulous he writes, like, you know, I don't know
what your handwriting looks like, but like I'm a chicken

(24:09):
scratch guy. I only I can read it. But when
you look at Curtis's notes, yeah, I swear it's like
the figure out that girl in high school that had
the best curse of handwriting, that's Curtis. Yeah, his penmanship
is an incredible note taking was was detailed beyond major
and so for him to be that guy and how

(24:31):
the success he has is it wasn't just by chance. Now,
he was gifted with talent and stuff like that, but
it was meticulous about how he went about his business
and that's what made it really cool about it, and
everybody gravitated towards him. He had an end with every
position group and the team. Everybody wrote what was respected
in the building. But he made you feel like you

(24:53):
were a part of all that he's doing. And that
was pretty cool about it. And there was no pretension
about him or or whatever. So for him for us
to have me, so we would always and it was,
you know, thursdays after it's a shorter practice or whatever.
So then we'd always a line. We'd always get together.
We'd watch Blitz film, we watched the run cut up tape,
and Curtis were coming there with us, and it got

(25:15):
to where we had all the running backs and all
the tight ends in there with us, and we'd all
just we just go through it together because he wanted
to know what he wanted to know what we were
seeing as we ran to play. And but it wasn't
just in the room. And so how he lived his
life on a regular basis.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
Yeah, you talk about gifted and being talented. You got
a special gift and you got you pretty talented your
damn self. Like, so your third season you go from
guard to center. That takes a special talent, especially at
this level. Yeah, to be able to switch positions like that,
how was how was that transition going from guard to tackle.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Was it easy?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Was it hard? It wasn't. So I played center in
high school exclusively, got signed to LSU to play center.
I ended up starting to left guard left tackle for
three years. I played tight end and shot yards. Early on,
I was starting left tackle, and then my junior year
I started three games of center, one game at guard,

(26:10):
four games of tackle. That's the year I made thirteen
All American in a like a two to nine season.
And then I got moved to center. My senior year, I.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
Was coach then too. He was They didn't they did not,
They don't.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
So I came under Mike Archer, came into the NFL.
He went to Virginia and came in the NFL. And
then the coach took his place was a guy by
the name of Curly Homan. And what put him on
the map was he was the head coach at Southern
Miss who beat Florida State in Alabama in the same season.
Who was their quarterback? It was Brett Farv And then

(26:43):
LSU just took a slump. So I was at l
s U for five of the worst season six seasons
in the history at school, and uh, I think Brett
Farv every time I see him, appreciate thanks.

Speaker 2 (26:54):
You did.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
I know what I love. My love for the game
was greater than my disc take for how our coaching
staff was, the losing, and my love for LSU. And
back then nobody transferred you just check quit. Yeah, but
my love for LSU was greater than all that, and
my glove for the game was greater than the losing.
And so I just played ball, you know. And uh

(27:17):
so I get drafted to play center and I go in.
I'm a third team center behind Ray Donaldson who was
a twelve year VET, Joe Tofemeier who was like a
six or seven year VET, and then there was me
and that was it. And so we go into the
second week training camp and the starting right guard hurts
his neck ends up becoming a career kN injury. So

(27:37):
this guy, Mitch Arrot, God rest his soul. He blew
his neck out, and so I moved over to second
team guard while still being third team center. And then
we go into week four of the season against Indianapolis Colts.
Bill Hitchcock, the starting right guard from I think he
was from pitt Canadian guy. He gets down in the

(28:00):
stance snapped the ball. Twenty one guys on the field
move and Bill's still stuck in the stance, ruptured a
disc right before right for the snap or something like that,
So really in his back just for career kN injury done.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
So now I'm like literally couldn't get out of the stand.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
I mean, he's like still in his three point stance
and I'm sitting there thinking, now I'm next guy up.
So now I'm playing guard. That's my rookie year. So
I played guard for the next eleven games and then
I'm just maintaining the starting guard spot. The whole plan
was for me to move to center when Ray Donaldson retired,
but you know whatever, they just when Ray left to
go to Dallas Cowboys. The second season that we brought

(28:40):
Jim Sweeney in from New York Jets, who's the older guy.
Which is good because now I got broken into the
league by Ray. I got taught the game by Jim Sweeney,
very better than just a savvy guy, and so it
kind of worked out, and then I got to see
the game from from that perspective. Yeah, and then I
finally moved out to I moved into center, but I

(29:03):
was small man. I wait, my first two years I
played two seventy five. Yeah, I was small, and Howard
mud or Mole line coach. You got to get bigger
than this. So I went from two seventy five to
three ten in one off season.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
And that was how how much eating.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
It was horrible.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I was eating.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
But they didn't they didn't do nutrition.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah, you didn't even have kitchen in Seattle at the time. Okay,
so back then everybody had racketball courts and stuff. Right,
So we come out of our locker room, hang it right,
and then there's a hallway that went to the back
of the building and you take stairs downstairs go to
Rackaball Court. The hallway was just folding tables that we
put trays on. And it wasn't telling my second or
third year that we started getting like breakfast and stuff.

(29:46):
You know, it's like you had to stop by McDonald's
on the way to work at lunch time. You left
to go to the Chariokey chicken place right down the
road when I was in Seattle. And then so finally
we started getting food and everything was chicken. So we
call our cook was chicken Joys because everything was baked chicken, chicken, sandwiches,
chicken fet of cheenie chicken, this chicken, that deal on
the chicken bro but I ate everything. So in the morning,

(30:10):
I would make a gallon like majoring picture of peanut
butter batter, I mean of pancake batter, and I would
get up they go to work out, come home, eat
stacked pancakes, big breakfast whatever. And before lunch, if I
got hunger again, I eating know, stack of pancakes, I mean, dude,
because I love breakfast, so like, I would literally eat
a gallon of pancakes, battered like you know, throughout the

(30:34):
whole day. I went from two seventy five to three
ten to three months.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
It was awful, awful.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
I was thirty eight waisted my pants, you know, I
was like a skinny guy, looked good at my only
back of pictures round. See. I was like, god, man,
I look good in that uniform. And then I go
from that to where I now wearing size forty two.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
I want to get a new Wars.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
I went from a size thirteen shoe to a size fourteen,
so my feet spread on me and my back.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
Was killed me.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
So I played there for two years. I did okay,
and I did all right. So then I've become a
free agent, go to New York and I remember this.
I weigh in at three o five first day of
offseason training and we got to run five three fifties
around the field. John lots o strength coach, and he's
set in the pace. And I prided myself on the
running because I knew that I was. I was always
a rabbit in workouts. So as a jailer, if you

(31:22):
stay on my tail, I'm going cross right at the line.
So if you're behind me, you're not gonna make your
times just but I can pace the scroup man. I
got to the second three fifty, I was gassed. The
third one, I didn't make my time. And I'm sitting
that thinking this is awful, and Parcels is over by
the locker room looking at it.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
This is your first year, right, this is my first
year with New York.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
On the high end center. I was like Parcels maybe
the highest pace center in the history of the league.
And he said, sothing is I paid this fat bet?
Be beat? This is much money. You can't even make
your b be beep. And I'm like John Lott our
strength coach old country dude, Hey, big Giff, you ain't
three or five. You can't play this out. I said,
I don't want to be this big here. We're gonna

(32:02):
work on this. So I got down to ninety that year. Yeah,
and then I go to Camp two ninety, I got
down to eighty. And so the next next thirteen years
I played it two hundred and eighty pounds. Word. I
moved inside in the center, and I figured out and
then that's why I used all my my kung fu
and ninja moves. But yeah, so, but so the idea

(32:25):
of how was that transition from in the middle to
back inside, It's something I did the whole time, all
the way from college, all the way through. I didn't
even I was at the Olie Masterminds a couple weeks
ago and I told the guys, how you still you
know you're trying to how do you steal reps in practice?
You know? How do you get better when it's not
your turn to go? And my thing is volunteer for

(32:46):
Scout team. Go play Scout team, man, because that's where
you can go experiment and screw up. Nobody, nobody knows. Hey,
as long as you do if you're a DV, as
long as that receiver catches the ball, you're good. But
just like I want to, I'm gonna try something different
my back pedaling, you're going or something like that. So
I'd go out there. Man, I'm gonna play left tackle
on Scout team against the Kyle Vandenbosch. Wise, I don't know,

(33:06):
just because I want to have fun doing it. So
in my mind, I was one. I was working working
tools that who knows might work on the inside or whatever.
But the other part of it is it made practice fun.
And because I enjoyed practice, I was a guy that
liked going to practice. But it also it also helped
me develop skills that if you're just the one position
guy all the time, you're not going to expand your

(33:28):
your toolbox. And so like I volunteered for Scout team,
and then early on when I was playing, when I
end up starting to guard, I was right up to
the number two center, so I had to take all
the one reps at guard, all the two reps at center,
and then I had to take all the Scout team
reps at center. So I never came off the practice field.
I never got a break during practice. And that you

(33:48):
know so. But I just always prided myself. You canna
put me on the field if you if your goal
is to have five, your five best offensive linemen, and
you're best offense line, and his best position is center,
move me to guard. I'm gonna be one of your
best five. I don't care. And that's kind of my mentality.

Speaker 2 (34:07):
That's a small mentality because you're gonna get on the field.
A quick question, quick answer here. When you played tackle
in college, how much.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Did you weigh to forty one? I started in the
SEC at left tackle at two hundred and forty one pounds,
this blowing sec.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
How I was an athlete?

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Bro, heybody, it's all it's all angles. The whole game
of football is angles and technique. That's yes, it is
you get you know, like if I got to pound
myself against the big guy tech washing four hundred twenty
pounds whatever he was, and you want me to stop him,
ain't gonna happen. But I angle him. I can get
to that point before he can, and I'll just hunker

(34:52):
down and play leverage. So and I was a weight
room guy. I love being the weight roomy. Squatt was
my favorite exercise how much squat?

Speaker 2 (34:59):
How much just squat all time? Hi? Would you say.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Single rep like six five six o five?

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (35:05):
And then and then you know, cleans, Like I tell
guys all this time, like I believe it that you
have to lift weights just as hard during the season
as you getting off. I love that you have to
me because that's why you stay healthy. So my goal
in my sixteenth year in the season was to be
cleaning hand cleaning at the end of the crew of
the year as much as I was during my workouts

(35:26):
in the office in the preseason.

Speaker 2 (35:28):
Yeah, so my last.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
Year in the NFL, on Thursdays was my clean day.
I was. I was hand cleaning three fifty and you know,
but I probably I had to because I had to
stay strong through the year. But but yeah, I started
my first game at LSU at left tackle.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
I had to ask because I know the whole weight
thing was and I kind of creeped up by the.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Time I got drafted. I was like to eighty two,
seventy nine or whatever it was. But but the problem
was for me, I lost weight so much during the season.
So if I go into to eighty, I played down
to sixty five. So that's why I was had going
in to ninety and play down to eighty.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
All right, Bill Parcells said, you were the best center
he's ever had, big compliment. Yeah, there we go. Why
is that such a big competent knowing because he's.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
One of the greatest coaches ever coach the game, And
to you know, three Super Bowls in New England, two
of the with the New York Giants. And this is
so I go to my free agent visit and i'm
I went to New Orleans, I went to Philly, I
went to San Diego, I came to New York and

(36:31):
Parceales was talking about what he needs to win football,
and his philosophy is, in order to have a winning
football team, you gotta be strong down in the middle
of the field. You're running back, quarterback, center, middle, linebacker, safety,
that's if you If you're strong down in the middle
of the field, you can make everything else work. And
he said, until he goes, we were gonna have great
teams with the New York Giants with Phil Simms and

(36:53):
all his defense and all that, with Carl Banks and
lt and all those guys. He goes, but we were
not going to take it to next level until I
had a premier center. He goes, that's when I signed
bart Oates and he reaches back and he grabs a
binder from behind him like this, he opens up, he
pulls out his top priorities for this offseason, for this,
for this free agency class, and number one thing was

(37:13):
the center. He goes, We're not gonna win here until
I have a premier center, and you're that guy. And
I probably I told him so, I'm gonna make good
on this and I did, and uh, to this day,
I tell maybe he's the best coach I've ever played for.
I love that.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, yeah, I love when coaches flirt with players too,
Like that's a good way to flirt with you, to say, hey,
you know.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
It builds you up. Yeah, it builds you. And then
then you don't want to let him down. Yeah exactly,
you don't want to disappoint him.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
And that's the good coaches know how to do that.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Though.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
I call that the seat up or factor liked his
coaches know the dude.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Had Yeah yeah, but this is so I got picked
up from I flew from Seattle to New York, and
I walked through the Jets facility and they had like
their All Pro wall and I asked Scott Pioli at
the time was like, not way up. He was the
Gopher boy for Parcels. I'm sure his title is higher
than that. Mike and then uh my Tannehill or Mike Tannama.

(38:11):
So they were they were the dynamic duo I call him.
And so I walked by the hall. When was the
last time I had an All Pro player? They're like,
we don't know, and it was Winston Hill back in
like the late seventies earlier's I'll be the next one
and I made a promise that I was gonna be
the next guy the next one alignment and I was
for that team.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Is there a play that defines who you are? Like,
we all have our legacy, but is there one play
that is out there that you that you know of?
And then when we watched that week, say, oh, that's
Kevin why because he does X Y Z.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
I think there's two that I can think of out
the top of my head. It's kind of funny. I
think most guys could answer this question. I'm sure you
could have about your guys' career. She hate to do it
because you know, on draft day when you're in college
and you're not the one getting drafted, like man, I
hope I'm not to do highlight film, you know, one of.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Those kinds of deals.

Speaker 1 (39:07):
But this is no disreck because because I respect the
heck out of Zach Thomas. But there's a there's a
play that's in my highlight reels. Were playing against Zach
and I pulled from the center spot to a left
to the left and whether Zach took a wrong angle whatever,
and I put the right shoulder on, dropped him, never

(39:28):
lost stride, just kept running and Curtis Martin was right
behind me the whole time.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Oh like Sunshine and uh in the in the the movie. Yeah,
remember remember the tight running down there? It was one
of the d did through it.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Zach put Zack on his back and I just kept
running through it, chased the next safety down the roay
and we just kept rolling. That's one because that's when
my game I was opening. I was known for my
open field play against the second level guys, screens and
tosses and all that kind of stuff. And then in
the past game we're playing New York Giants, New York Jets.
I think it was my last year in in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
I can't remember, but.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
There was a throwback game, so they had their New
York Titans uniform.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
That's why I remember it.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
And uh so it's I passed that and it's a
slide left, but I'm covered up, so I take my
nose back. I got him, and the linebacker's got a
blitz coming and he's not even my responsibility. But once
I knew, once I locked onto my guy, if I
can keep my head on a swivel, I can put
myself in my body in a position to close the
gap between me and.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
The guard or me and the other guard.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
And I saw the linebacker coming to my right side,
and all I did is I locked this guy out.
I leaned back in and I just drew a shoulder
to him, and I like blew a blindside shot. He did,
He wasn't look no, And I took two guys out
and the running back got to Scott release and come out.
He didn't get the ball, but still he didn't have
to hit my running back. So those are two plays

(40:52):
that just still awareness, you know, my visual awareness for
that special awareness.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
All right, Kevin, You know, so the NFL is the
Honors this year they're gonna have an award too. It's
called Protector of the Year. So the best offensive lineman's
about time. Okay, I like that, so tell me your
opinion about them. Finally, give him the award to the
best offensive linement, and then I have a follow up.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
I think it's a hard award to give out because
there's really no stats, you know now, But here's here's
you take guys games, say he played eight hundred snaps
this year and three hundred and fifty have more passing
games or pass plays, And my idea is they take
you gotta filter out the ones where he had slide

(41:40):
help or when this dude was on a island by
himself against the premier pass rusher, whether it be a
tackle or nose tackle, whatever, did he get beat and
I get beat? And how many times? Whats the percentage
of times did he won that rep or whatever. I
don't know how they're gonna do it, but that's how
I envisied it. Like if I get stuck on the
island by myself against whoever you know, Casey Hampton and
or whoever the best Nigomigan Sue or Aaron Donald or whatever,

(42:04):
did I beat him? A higher percentage of times because
he's a premier pass rusher, And that's kind of how
I've measured it going. But I think more importantly for me,
because everybody knows, pass protection is not a single person guy.
It's a unit. And I think it should be a
unit award. That's how I see it. If you can
get through the season and you give up less than
twelve sacks the entire year, you're you know, you're winning

(42:27):
football games. And you know if you only give up
like ten sacks as a unit for the entire year,
because what happens is a running back miss is a
block and the sacks go on the line, yep, you know,
and and what it does is and a lot of
people don't know this, but when the quarterback get sacked,
that they take that off your rushing yards and the stats,
and so that that damages the offensive lines credibility as well.
So I think it's a unit. I think it should

(42:47):
be a unit award, and I think that that's how
they should go about doing it. And you know, how
many how many sacks do you give up? What your
sack ratio the percentage of passes in the game, and
you come up some mathematical formula for that. But I
heard that. I was at the ol Line Mass Minds
a couple weeks ago they announced that they're going to
do this award, So I think that's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
What did What would you name the award?

Speaker 1 (43:14):
I like, I love it, Protector of the Year, you know,
But I would, man, what would.

Speaker 3 (43:19):
The design look like if you could present the award?
Which how would you?

Speaker 1 (43:22):
Well? Have you guys, you know what the Joe More
Award is, Yes, the Office Line Award for the greatest
the best office line college football. It's got to be
something like that. It's a whole group of guys. Though, Yeah,
it's the whole five. Man. That's why if it's a
unit award, it's got it should mimic something like that,
you know what I'm saying. But it could look like,
I mean, you take the greatest of so hard because
you got like, you know, the greatest of the game.

(43:42):
In my ear, I'm thinking guys like you know, John
Hannah and and Gene Upshaw and Art Schell and Anthony
Munos and Munchak. But those guys they say the greatest
of the game. For them, it's guys gim Otto and
ring and all those guys that came before them. So
I don't know what that's gonna look like. I don't
know who you call it, what you call it, I
don't know.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
Maybe you take one guy from each era, a guy
from like the sixties, seventies, eighties, best tackle.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
From like the fifties and six. Yeah, your best guard
from the like the seventies, and the center from the eighties.
What Mike Webster is going to be that guy? Yeah,
you know, And I say that because I'm in the
Hall of Fame, But no disrespect to Demoni Dawson, but
DEMONI took over after Mike Webster. And then you get
Bruce Matthews the right guard, and you get Jonathan Augen
or whoever even though his left tackle, or Seyes, Who're

(44:29):
gonna put up there? Walter Jones? I mean, you got you,
Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, you got all these guys that
were our contemporaries. But I look back and think John
Hannah and Anthony Munos. I mean, I played tackle and
I studied Anthony Munos's game. So who are you gonna
put up there? I don't know, but you know, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Okay, good, No, no, no, And I don't know it's
a good answer. I think I don't know the good answer.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
I agree, it's kind of it's kind of like the
basketball logo, like they they got Dre West, Like you
had to pick somebody to make this logo after.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
But if you're not a fat basketball fan, you don't
know who that is, right, you know, everybody knows that
Jordan's shoes. You know that's Jordan. Yeah, you ain't got
to say it, you just but that's the greatest for
our time. He was the greatest guy that ever played
the game. Right Now, there's argument as Lebron and Kobe
and all that kind of stuff, Like I'm not a
basketball fan, but I know nobody wanted Lebron James shoes

(45:21):
nineteen eighty nine. They wanted Jordan's shoes. You know what
I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
Absolutely, So this is something I'm really excited to get
into because this is very close to my heart. What
made you want to start to get into the more
leadership roles for the NFLPA When you did, I saw
it was like after your like four and five. Yeah,
it's when you started to take on more and more
leadership and more roles. You were rep first, yeah, and

(45:46):
then being in it.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
I was always bent that way as far as like
just I was a fourth fourth grade classroom president, you know,
so it' what a stat but that was so you
think it's like I got still trapped. So all these
random stupid memories. But uh, and then all we did.
Miss Sandela was my fourth grade teacher, and we lived

(46:09):
in Germany, and and I was American school, so we
had to clean the classroom and everybody did and and
every you know, and it's about doing the little things
and picked it. And so I'm looking around, you know,
backpacks need to be under your desk and all that
kind of stuff. I go up to the white board
and I erased the date up on the board and
put the correct date up there. Miss and Della's like,
what would you do? I said, well, the date was wrong,

(46:30):
it's like two days ago. And she goes, Kevin's Kevin's
our our new president of the classroom. So I like,
I carry it out like a bad man. Your backpacked,
put your pencils underneath the counters out. But uh, but
I've always been bent that way. I always spend the
outspoken guy on the team. But I think it comes
from my dad's background. My dad was military. He was

(46:52):
He was a sergeant Army East seven. He retired after
twenty three years. But he always taught us, man, if
you're going to do it, do it right, and don't
let anybody else. You don't go down to somebody else's level.
You make them rise up to yours. And so I
get in the NFL, and four years I just pay
attention in the PA meetings and all that kind of stuff,
don't really get involved. And then ninety eight I go

(47:12):
to near Jets. I'm sitting in the you know, the
annual meeting when they come to and the guy sitting
in front of me asking me questions all the time,
and I'm the one answering the questions. He goes, well,
why don't why aren't you our player rep. I said, well,
why don't you? If you have, I will be, But
you got to nominate me. I'm not going to raise
my hand, nominate myself. And he did, and I got
nominated and I got elected. And so for the first

(47:34):
time I started understanding the business of the game. I
was welcome to the business of the game, and it
was really off this field, welcome to the game. Moment
when I was a week and a half holdout trying
to get the best contract for me, and that's this
is a business. This is just spoutfall. This is a business.
And so when I became the PA rep for the team,
I started understanding the inner workings of the CBA, what

(47:56):
it meant, how it got there, the history of the league.
Understanding that that contract that I was working on my
rookie year was the first time they had a CBA
since nineteen eighty seven. Because they worked with they played
without a CBA. There was a Plan B free agency,
the Reggie White case. So I started learning about all
this stuff that a lot of our young players don't
even have a clue about. And I just kind of

(48:16):
was involved and just make myself available. And the best
availability is just to be able to know the answer.
So when your teammates ask, you have a quality answer
to give them, or at least tell them where the
resources are. And so did that for I think it
was six years or something as a player rep and
eventually got elected to they got nominated at the Bord
of Rep meetings, got elected as a vice president and

(48:39):
again you get a little a little bit more knowledge
of what's going on now is more about the inner
workings of the building itself and stuff like that. But
what I think prior to that trace Armstrong, Anias Williams,
Tim Brown, Robert Smith. They were all these extitive committee
members and they would they would do handpicked guys out

(49:01):
of the border reps meetings and identify guys that they
thought could be future leaders of the organization. And so
when they had executive committee meetings outside of the big
board meeting, they would invite us to go sit in
on these meetings. We didn't have a voice, we didn't
have a voter or anybody was just to listen to
the conversation and how they think those things were. So
they identified about eight to ten of us, and we

(49:23):
all kind of rose through the ranks of the PA.
Then became presidents. The two of us became presidents, and
many of us became vice presidents of the Union. And
so that's just kind of how it worked. And then
then flashed forward to like two thousand and nine or eight.
I was gonna walk away from the Union twelve years in.

(49:44):
I'm ready to just whatever, and then things started happening
and I just made the decision to run for president,
became the president, and literally the day of training camp started,
Gene passed away. So then I got thrust into the
whole new role of responsibilit But it's just I was
always been that way. I was a class class officer

(50:04):
my whole through time through high school, I went to
Boise State. I was just I was always that guy
at my school. I was a student council officer in
my high school, and then in college I was you know,
team captain and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
So I just okay, So so Jean, guys, no, only
that the owners opt out. Let's let's talk.

Speaker 1 (50:25):
About what really popped it off. So I know.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Already already.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
I know where the conversations headed.

Speaker 3 (50:34):
No, this is he's got his own personal because yeah,
we've we've talked about your TID.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
You're personally affected by a lot of this, no question.
That's some point, at some point in the way we
all works, either you're a contract guy or like on
any of your contract, things are changing, or you're in
the leadership side and it changes the whole dynamic of
your season because you're in the middle of all these
conversations and all that kind of stuff. So it affected everybody.

(51:02):
It wasn't just yeah, you know the guys, the leadership.
There's twenty five hundred players that were affected by this.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
It was more or less when we have these converences,
we have this, We've had this conversation often over the years.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Well everybody has an opinion too, well everyone, Yeah, everyone
has an opinion.

Speaker 3 (51:18):
And it didn't affect me as much as it affected you.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Okay, right, you.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Yes, we all got affected by it, but it affected
you more because that was your contract here.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
Yes, so the opt out was actually happened in twenty ten. Yes,
they opted out in twenty ten. Jane passed away in
obviously two thousand and eight. So I was a president
at the time, and you can't negotiate unless you got
your executive director. So I'm in the year fifteen, I
mean year fifteen. I spent every Monday either on a

(51:50):
conference call or traveling in Washington, DC, and I was
there till Tuesday night, and then I would fly back.
And so then we started, how do we go about
this process to find the news direct so the exact
committee will talk about the process, and then we spent
weeks vetting search firms I'm talking about not days, weeks
like search frinsdays fifteen to twenty five, and we'd interview

(52:11):
every one of them, like what's your process, what do
you think? And you know whatever, what's your ties? Do
you have ties in the NFL? Do you not have
ties in the NFL? If you have ties, is it
high ties? Are you tied to the Commissioner's office? If
you are, we don't want you. You know that kind
of stuff. We had those conversations and we got down
to that. So then they present you a book of
candidates and it starts off with fifty and then they

(52:34):
get fifty and you just talk about them and say, well, okay,
we're going not these all. We'll give us a book
of twenty five candidates, the best possible twenty five candidates.
So then you got it. Then this this was our process.
Then we had to interview twenty five candidates. So you
wouldn't do those interviews. They weren't going to be phone interviews.
There was no zoom back then. We didn't have zoom.
So we would fly in to Washington, d C. On Mondays,

(52:55):
interviewing candidates Mondays and Tuesdays, fly back Tuesday night. So
you can go to practice on Wednesday morning. And that
was my whole two thousand and eight season a lot,
and it was brutal. It was brutal, but it was
the best season I had. And this is why. It's
because when I got to practice, I had three hours.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
It was just all about me.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
Didn't have to do a phone call, didn't have to
answer a question. I just went out there and played
ball and that's all I did. And so so that's
what happened. Well, that was two thousand and eight, So
we worked through that. Two thousand and nine things lightened
up because we finally get to a point where we
select the executive director and then in twenty ten is
when they opt out of the deal, and then that's when.

(53:35):
But we'd already now we have our leadership in place
already for a year and a half, and we're starting
to strategize as an executive committee. Some guys cycled out
of retirement and new guys are in and now we've
kind of built our war team of what we're gonna
do when we start our negotiations, and we only had
a year and a half, a year ready for it,
where it's this next upcoming ones, not they got five

(53:56):
more years to figure it out. But yeah, it was.
It was tumultuous, It was tough, and it was very stressful.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah, I can only imagine. And I'd heard those stories
because Scott Fajeta was one of my who was very
much so with a lot of you guys, with a
lot of this stuff through the through the wars, and uh,
it only really affected me. And I have no opinion
on the leadership. Ye I would just would love to
you were in the room. So it was very cool.
But no, I was one of those guys that was

(54:23):
a four year guy who just went on my first
Pro Bowl, just won the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
And now the salary dynamics changed huge. They know this
is what happened, right, So we go twenty eleven, we
get the deal, so that's that would be the year
after your contract whatever.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
So it made me I couldn't become a free agent because.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
You had to be six years yeah yeah, yeah, more
because of the because of the lockout, because of the
opt out, the opt out, they extended it. So you
got stuck. And yes, tended offer deals, yes right, yes, yeah,
and it happens.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
It sucks for you.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
And I was like in that one that one to
two years.

Speaker 1 (54:59):
Maybe ten guys or something like that. They're follow that
because this is and this is what I learned from Gene.
From Gene Upshaw, you worry about the minority voices, of course,
and listen to their problems, but you always have to
side with the majority.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
I saw that in the write up that you said,
up have those words were to me? It landed so
well for me.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
The minority will be heard, but the majority will always rule.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
And what's going on in our country today, right we
hear the libar and on what's sad, whatever side of
the fence, and politically you sen on. If you're the minority,
you got the loudest voice. You always do. But at
the end of the day, majority always wins. And it's
like that everything we do. That's why we live in
a democratic society. And that's the way the NFLPA was.
You got guys that are squeaky wheels, and they're all

(55:43):
the time squeaky wheels. If they hear you, we're gonna
address this as best as we can. But at the
end of the day, we got thirty two teams are
going to vote on behalf of their fifty five and
eighty five players. And that's what's going to be heard
whether you like it or not. And that's the hard
part about sitting in the position I was in, and
with Jeans in you're hated by half the guys in
the NFL.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
See, I never felt like we hated our leadership as
much as like it felt like guys never paid enough
attention until all of a sudden, until that's exactly what happens.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
Exactly what does that.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Matter to you until it affects you? And that's the
problem with leadership in general. Yes, because nobody wants to
jump in until yes, and so the guys that become
leaders And this is this is how I felt about it.
I'm not doing it for me. I'm not And I
told my executive committee, whatever decisions we make over the

(56:38):
next four years through negotiation stuff, just know this all
of us, most of us are going to be retired.
It's not going to affect you one bit. You still
got your four to one. You guys still got your severance,
you still got your your annuity, all the stuff that
we fought for up to this point in time, you're
getting all that. You're not going to have a part
of the new salary cap. You're not going to have
a part unless that next leadership group says, well, we're
getting way too much money, let's make a new benefit it,

(57:00):
which they have a little bit right through through some
programs in half. But it doesn't You don't care until
it affects you. And that's when you sit in these
meeting rooms. And it used to be you get your
rebate check from the NFL, p I players ink or whatever.
That's all they wanted. Give me my fifteen.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
Hundred dollars check and so I can leave, So I
can leave.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
But they didn't care about the free agency and how
the new collector Bargaining Agreement is going to affect you
and down the road and all that kind of stuff
until you become the guy that gets stuck in the middle.
Right now, all of a sudden, you want answers, You
want them now. I'm getting screwed.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yeah, I never thought about half back and then, but
then I don't think it ever really happened until it happened.
It doesn't happen until it happened. Happened till that happened. Yeah,
and it was super ity. So for me, it was
just like, man, this was like did you I was
supposed to hit it. I didn't. And look it doesn't matter.

(57:53):
It's one of the bridge you know what I mean.
I still got my business.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
I'm saying the thing. If I was ten years younger,
I would have signed made a contract. These guys are
making more in the third round for a signing bonus
that I made in my entire career.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
But you know what, it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
I don't care. I don't care. God has blessed me.
I do what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I love this. I got this question for you because
I think that negotiation really, in my opinion, changed everything
about what we know is off season football. Yes, and
so how what negotiations When you guys are in there negotiating,
at what point do you say, Okay, well, if we're
going to do this, this is what we got to

(58:32):
have because now there was no more to days. You
guys like that was like a huge change. And now
there's no more too days.

Speaker 1 (58:37):
In college everyone always goes all yeah, and so there
are to days. The rules of two days have changed dramatic, dramatically,
So like, how did you come about with that?

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Even including the off seasons? Coach because you guys, in
my opinion, have changed the whole world of what we deceived.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
So the biggest issue at the time, and then you
guys probably remember this was was brain injuries and CTEs
and stuff like that, and so that became the forefront
of health and health matters and issues. Well, but they've
always have been. So when I became a player rep
in ninety nine, my first meetings was the two thousand
player rep meetings, was the first time they had changing
helmets in like twenty years, and I remember sitting in

(59:17):
there and then they were presenting this new helmet which
I actually wore, and there was a lightweight helmet made differently,
kind of like a motorcycle helmet, but it had different
kind of path and stuff like that. And that was
the first time that the helmet's ever been changed ever, right,
And so then re buysing their league in two thousand
and two, they buy the entire league out. Me and
about fifteen guys on the execut committee and on the

(59:38):
board gets selected to go to Rebok headquarters in Massachusetts
for research and development. And that's the first time we've
ever talked about where they're asking you about the shoes
positional playing shoes. But those are the kind of things
you always talked about because everybody knew astral turf was horrible.
It's like playing in your grandma's back patio with the

(59:58):
green carpet, you know. So so then that's where they started
talking about, like how does the pattern of the cleats
match with the playing surface and all that kind of stuff.
So those are things that the normal public and many
of the players have no clue that the player and
the player, the players association, the leadership was always involved

(01:00:20):
in a lot of those conversations. And now which I
think one of the greatest things I've seen is given
organizations report cards on their facilities of free agency. Right,
I mean, how are teams like LSU and Alabama and
Nebraska beating everybody else in recruiting going to the facilities

(01:00:41):
and look what they've got, you know, and now a
lot of guys going in the NFL. It's a downgrade
from the dollars. So go back to twenty eleven, or
when we're doing the negotiations about the health, well, how
do we get to the practice. The biggest issue was
brain trauma, and guys are suffering from brain injury and stuff,

(01:01:01):
and so you had to think about what causes it. Well,
it's multiple becussive hits throughout the course of their career. Well,
how do you eliminate that? Well, if you're going two
day practices and sometimes like with a Jets, we did
three days, you had like a morning practice, special teams practice,
and they had afternoon practice. Well, every time you had
step on the football field for every play, that's the
opportunity to have a helmet to helmet contact hit. And

(01:01:24):
so well, how do you eliminate that. Well, you got
to eliminate either the time of practice or the amount
of times you're on the football field. So that's how
the conversation started. So we gotta get rid of two days. Well,
if you don't get rid of two days, and the
coaches still want two days, and that was part of
the conversation was, well, the coaches aren't gonna like this,
So we're not negotiating against coaches, we're negotiating against ownership.
The coaches don't have a say in this. They go

(01:01:46):
form their own union, but you guys won't let them
because then they're they're part of management, you know. So
so the coaches don't have a say in this we
hear their concerns, but at the end of the day,
this is not their decision to make. It's going to
be us against you guys. And so great point to
the culmination of it was the only way you eliminate
concussive episodes is eliminate the opportunities to have the custom efficcudes.

(01:02:08):
The only way you eliminate opportunities is to cut back
on aunt of practices. And so that's how you elimination
of practice. That's why your second practice, if you don't,
has to be a walk through with no helmets, because
what happens is a walkthrough becomes a speed through. We're
running full speed because coaches can't help themselves. And now
that I've been on the coaching side of it, I

(01:02:28):
see it because you get so frustrated we're not going
to get this because the angles are the timing is
not right right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:35):
I gotta see it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
And that's and so that's kind of how that conversation
started and how it happened. And of course we take
into account we had Tom Mayer was our medical director
of the PA Mark or Stagan, who owned who opened
started exos way back in the day. He was always
on the board of our Health and Welfare Committee and
things like that, and then we have to this is
the thing that people underestimate the intelligence for football players.

(01:03:00):
On our executive committee during that time, every one of
us had an advanced degree, whether it be NBA like
I have a master's sports management. Every one of us had,
and then Dominic Foxers ended up going to Harvard, you
know what I'm saying, So they underestimate your intelligence. The
challenge is every four years you got new leadership on
the PA side, the NFL has got what the same

(01:03:20):
thirty two guys every time. That's what the challenge is.
But that's how the conversation works. And so the players
will say, I think this is a great idea. Okay,
let's let's research this idea and we can maybe implement this.
But that's how we came to no two days or
two days modified the hard part and then like full practices,
you know, full Paddy only like one a week for

(01:03:41):
the first fourteen weeks or something like that, and then
you get whatever that is, like seventeen Yeah, I don't
know what you like, total seventeen over fourteen weeks or whatever.
I don't ever know the rule is, and that's kind
of how it all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
I like it. I liked it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
As an older guy when we had all those it was.

Speaker 2 (01:04:00):
It was very interesting because you know, from a younger
guy's perspective, it was like, I don't know if I
cared as much versus But then when you get older,
you care a lot more. But I appreciate it. I
loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
As you get older, you learn how to practice. Yeah,
you had learned how to be more efficient in your practice.
So okay, I can cut back. I don't have to
go you know, if I'm running go routes, I don't
have to run dead springt go route. Now, I just
got to make sure I get to my point. I
know where my point is, or if I'm on a
deep slant, I need to know where how far I
got get to the field before I make my break
or we.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Get all that kind of stuff pre and post practice too.
You're just more efficient with your.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
More time when not out there smart. And then it
goes back to the modalities now that they have that
they're now mandated to have in the training room all,
whether it be hyperbaric or red laser or things like that.
You know, and then enough of course, another part of
that was the big the whole marijuana thing. And you know,
there's a lot of guys who are self medic Kayden

(01:05:00):
with with by smoking and all that kind of stuff,
and and you know, it's become a big part of
the culture, and it's been legalized in so many any
in the NFL is like, just because it's legal in
this state, doesn't mean you guys allowed to do it.
We're still going to test you. So that's why they
dropped the numbers and the thresholds. And then I don't know,
I think the roll all together is like nobody can
nick for meat anymore, you know, And but you know,

(01:05:22):
and my whole mind is like, I don't know how
that makes you play better. But I've never done it before,
so I don't know. But for some guy it might
work for you. I mean, I had teammates. It was
the drink a fifth of jack on a Saturday night
before a game, because the calm the nurse to me,
I'd be like so sick the next day. But like
I ate two cups of the size of Eminem's the
night before game. I just you know, I was carbloading.

(01:05:43):
So everybody had a different deal but but that's how
the conversation started. It all started with CTE and how
to protect our guys from having uh, you know, chronic
brain image.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Well, I appreciate you for sharing because I just, you know,
I want you to know that a lot of us
appreciate what you did that And I don't know if
you even think about it, but you really, and you
and your guys and us as the league change the
way everything that happens in football going forward, because nowadays

(01:06:14):
you see guys even in college, like they think, oh
my gosh, training camp so hard. I'm like, yeah, I
do exactly what you just did. And I'm just saying
you have no idea, you have no clue and what
you can't tell them that it's not hard because that's
their life. But at the same time, yeah, and I
just don't know if we understood, like that decision that offseason,

(01:06:36):
how much it changed everything about football going forward.

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
And it goes back to you got to understand that
the changes that you're implementing may not ever affect you,
but it's going to make life better for the guys
come after you. Absolutely, and that's I think a great leader,
no matter what role you're in whether you're in corporate politics, whatever.
A great leader understands you not making decisions for yourself.
You're making decisions so that when you leave, whatever arena

(01:07:01):
you're in is better than what you found it. And
that's I feel like during my presidency those four years,
and I think that's what we left myself. Just Saturday,
Mike Rable, Tony Richardson, Drew Brees, you know guys are
on the connect with other other guys. I can't name
them all, Brian Dawkins, you know, all of us guys.
We felt like we left the game better because all

(01:07:22):
of us were in like double digit years except for
Dominque Foxworth, who became the president after I left. And
that I think that's a true sign of leader. It's
not about what's going to help you. It's going to
help what helps everybody after you, right, And that's that's
how and I think that's how it should be done.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
I want to read something to you, and I want
you to expend upon it. Really put some time in
thought and to who you'd want to be if you
never had the game of football in your life.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
You made that comment, Yeah, I made it about transitioning. Yeah,
there's a we all know there's guys that are lost
without football because that's all they've ever known. And I
was one of the early on I was one of
those guys. All I want to do is be a
football player. I went to LSU. I joke around now
that I was an eligibility major at LSU. They're like,

(01:08:11):
what's that. That's like, my goal was to stay past
twelve hours every semester so I can be eligible to
play football. I grew up and figured out I need
to graduate and get something sometime of degree. But it's
been my experience in the stories that I've heard the
former players that I've met that struggle when they're outside
of the locker room because they don't have the surrounding

(01:08:32):
of the boys in the locker room. Yep, they don't
have the game, they don't have the they don't have
the platform, the platform or the pedestal that they spent
their whole lives on. You were a five star athlete
in high school, you were a second round draft, or
you were like All American college, you were a second
third round pick in the NFL. You blow your knee
out and nobody cares, And that's got to be heart

(01:08:55):
soul crushing for men, and for me, I was on
that trajectory because it was all about ball for me.
But I was married, I had a wife, and then
I had circumstances in my life that made me change
my whole perspective. I had the death of a brother
after my second year in the NFL, and my wife
became pregnant at the same time. So all of a sudden,
now you're going to be a husband, you're gonna be

(01:09:16):
a dad, and your best friend just passed away tragically, unexpectedly,
and you think around, look around, like, man, this is nothing,
this means nothing. And so it led me on a
spiritual journey, of my faith driven journey where I became
a born again Christian and understood I believe the word
of the Bible, and the Bible telling me that God

(01:09:37):
has a purpose for every one of us, and everybody's
purpose is different. My purpose was not to play football.
My purpose was to find football that He has a
platform to make it better for me, to be able
to have a voice to make things better for everybody else.
And so when you have that mindset, you can walk
away from the game say okay, how do I And
this is what the trust is really good about how

(01:09:58):
do I transition from a player to the corporate world,
or a player to the community, or the player in
the teacher or coach or whatever. But understanding that the
reason why I have a louder voice is because football
gave that to me and then using that to make
whatever difference you want to make in the world. And
the guys that don't understand that are the ones who

(01:10:20):
struggle when they leave the game. The other ones that
I missed the locker room, I don't know what I'm
gonna do with in my life, and they go on
too tailspin and things like that, And of course there's
injuries and head to trauma that might play along with it.
But I think the earlier in the game that you
start thinking about the exit of the game, then the
better off going to be. And for me, we didn't

(01:10:41):
have continuing education in my first ten years in the league.
We didn't have all that, and most of the guys
weren't a lot of guys weren't graduating before they come
in the NFL. Now colleges are accelerating their graduation rates.
Guys are graduating with masters before they even get in
an NFL. True statistically, I don't know if it's changed
statistic when I was playing, statistic players they graduated from

(01:11:02):
college before they joined the NFL statistically have longer careers
than those who didn't graduate from college. And the reason,
and I don't know what the reason why, but my
high surmise that the reason was because they figured out
a way how to be committed to something, to get
through something. So now you have that mentality that I
got through that. I mean, I had to go through

(01:11:23):
twenty hour rules in college, I carried eighteen hour workload,
I had a study, I still wanted my social life
and then all this, but I figured out a way
to get done. So then you come to the NFL.
You've had that success. Now you just apply all those
same things to an NFL player and then you move on.
So then statistically, on top of that is a guy
that makes it to this fifth year in the NFL

(01:11:45):
statistically has a better chance of making it to year
ten than the guy that only makes it that doesn't
get to year five, you know what I'm saying. So
if you get to year two, your statistics to get
to year ten are a lot lower than the guys
that's already in the year five obviously, because you are
god three years on deal. But you learn how to
you figure it out. You figure it out, and here's

(01:12:05):
the best thing you do. Don't come to the locker
room thing, you know. And I used to tell young
guys all this time, and I learned it. I knew
it when I went in. I picked a guy in
the locker room that I watched how he lived his
life a lot. This guy's twelve and it's got to
be a ten or twelve year vet or something like that.
And just watch how he goes about his business. He's
not the loudest guy in the locker room. He's always
on time. He's always got a notebook. You know. When

(01:12:25):
he gets done, he's going home to his family. Those
are guys that are playing forever. You know what I'm saying,
And that's why I locked onto So then as I
became an older guy, I would tell young guys this.
You keep your mouth shut, eyes and ears open, see everything,
hear everything. Nobody wants your opinion until you've earned the
respect of the guys in the locker room. And then if

(01:12:46):
you see something, then you become the guy that, hey,
young man, that's not ye, you're not gonna be around
very long. That's how you're going to keep going, you
know that kind of thing. But but going back to
the part about knowing who you are in the outside
of the game. When I realized that my priorties was
be a great husband, to be a great father, a
great brother, and a great friend, football didn't matter because

(01:13:09):
if I can be all those things, then I just
apply all those principles being a great footbo boarder, right,
And that's kind of was my mentality.

Speaker 2 (01:13:16):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
So this is a this is a question we like
to ask a lot of the guests that come on
the pod. You have had a tremendous life, successful high school, college,
professional career, NFLPA president, the leadership from your dad and
and everything else. If you had four people to pick
and put on your mount Rushmore, who would those four

(01:13:39):
people be that have helped you shaped you, mold you
into the man we are talking to right now.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
My mom and dad too. Okay, we'll puts down.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Yeah, you want to be one of one together. You
want to do them this, one and two.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
I would have to put them one together because you
know what I mean, you learned something from each one
of them. But they ran the household together, you know
what I'm saying. So it wasn't like mom's rules and
dad's rules. It was the house rules, you know. And
however they developed that mentality or whatever. But but I
would say, but if I had to put one over
the other, it would be my dad. And my dad's

(01:14:13):
very quiet.

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
But you I just if you got in trouble, mamas
weren't whipping you. Yeah, if Dad said something, boy, you were.

Speaker 2 (01:14:31):
In trouble, you knew you were in trouble.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Man. Uh, But to watch them work. He was in
the military, and I just remember, Oh, now the guys
in the army don't even know they wear these boots
that you don't even have to polish. I mean you
can see yourself. You can part your hair by looking
at my dad's boots, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
I remember that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
And uh, my dad's uniform was starch. They never looked sloppy.
I mean, man, it's like it was details. And the
mom make the bed. We had the forty five degree
angle on the back end with the sheets tucked and
you had to bounce quarter off it and that those
things mold you, you know, and then you watch your
dad get ready for work and he passes rucksack and
everything's meticulous. I mean the fox socks are folded just right,

(01:15:15):
and his his his sleeping bags folded up. But uh,
that's where I think if everybody should be able to
say that their mom and dads are number one people
and a lot of guys, a lot of people don't
have that, And I understand that, and that's I think
that's a lot of what a lot of the issues
we have in our world today is because there's a

(01:15:36):
lot of people that don't have that. And so so
dad and mom would be definitely number one. I'll call
him one and too because because they're so influential. The
next one, not just because it comes to my mind.
As a great friend of mine. His named Stina Rizzo.
He was the founding pastor of Healing Place Church in Bountdruse, Louisiana.

(01:15:57):
He now works at Church of Highlands and bring him
out Alabama. When I became a believer a Christian, he
was a guy that led me to the Lord. And
I remember he married my wife and I when I
was in college and at the time he just started
a church and he says, hey, I want to talk

(01:16:18):
to you about this Jesus, I want to talk to
you about the Bible. He does that you interested? I said, Nope,
not interested, don't want any of it. I said, if you,
if that's what it's going to take for you to
marry my wife and I, we'll go find somebody else.
And uh, two years later, after my brother passed away,
I was having some serious questions and doubts and and
uh we ended up back at his church and UH

(01:16:39):
had to meeting him June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety seven.
My life changed forever. And uh, and he's been a
part of every major decision.

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
I've ever made in my life since then.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Uh, my free agency in New York, my second contract
in New York, whether I take it or let it ride,
going to Tennessee, becoming the president of the PA, my
retire vironment decision. He has been a part of every
major decision in my life. You know, we've now he's
moved away, and we see each other maybe once or
twice a year, but we talked, you know, a little

(01:17:11):
bit more than that. But I've never made a major
decision without him like counseling me through it. So that
would be three and uh, man, the fourth one influential
in my life man, my wife.

Speaker 3 (01:17:31):
Yeah, it's a good one.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
We celebrated thirty two years this last May. We've been
together for thirty five years. And man, she's been through
every and I talked about it in my speech in
twenty nineteen. But man, I don't do nothing without her.
I don't do nothing. I would rather go hang out
with my wife than to go I mean, I like
being around my dudes, but I'd rather go hang out
with my wife and go do something with her then

(01:17:58):
go have a beer at a bar or something like that.
That's not my vibe anyways. But uh, Tracy and I
we we've been through some stuff, so uh yeah, i'd
be Tracy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
That's a good list.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
Man. That's that's a good amount. Rushmore, by the way,
that's it's beautiful. It's beautiful, healthy.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
It is extremely that cry all the time. So anyways,
but that that would be it, man, because it's the
people closest to you, because you know what, they're the
ones who affect you the most and the ones that
are affected by your decisions the most. And outside of Dino,
you know, he's the only outside guy. But I've been
with this dude since he married us in ninety three,

(01:18:44):
led me to the Lord in ninety seven vacation together. He
went to my first Pro Bowl with me. Uh A
couple years later we just want a guy's Pro Bowl trip.
He was one of the guys that came. He was
at my Hall of Fame induction. He we I mean,
I said, I remember sitting. I was at the end

(01:19:04):
of my career two thousand and nine season, two thousand
and six yards y two K. It's c J two K.
I was val in voluntary at Vandonbilt University, had the
opportunity to go a one year minimum wage deal on
the West coast or just call it, call it quits
and shut it down. And I remember sitting at the
Vandonbilt practice field at eleven o'clock at night, all by myself,

(01:19:25):
leaning up against the fans, talking to Dino and just
going through this whole process. Say, this is what God
has done in your life, your family, your kids, your
leadership of the NFL, all this stuff, and you've done
everything right. He goes, you know, and whatever, so and then,
but he's always been that guy just kind of bringing
me back to center, you know, and understand, like perspective wise,

(01:19:49):
if you claim to be a man of faith, then
you don't act on an emotion, you act on truth.
So what does the word of God say? What does
the word of God say about being a husband, a man,
your future, a business leader? Whatever? And if he'd always
had a way to bring me back to center and
then I made my decisions from that and uh, and
that was it. But you know, outside my family and
then everything else is my kids. You know, It's like

(01:20:10):
my decisions are based on how it affects my kids,
who are now twenty eight and twenty five and about
to be their own adults. My daughter actually sent money
back to me today.

Speaker 2 (01:20:18):
She goes, how does that feel to have your kids
pay you back?

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
Because she asked for some money I sent her. She goes,
and the zel. So she goes, Zel, it was a
double payment. She goes, I'm send sending part of it
back to you. What was more I got? I got
two hundred bucks in my bank account.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Yeah, I did something right.

Speaker 3 (01:20:38):
I haven't gotten that yet.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
No, No, I'm not on that level. I'm not on
that level. Kevin Man, appreciate it. Man, Thanks for man
so candid, so open with us. You talked about being
a crowd baby. I just think it's okay to share
emotions and when you know this is probably I told
Bill Cowerd this the other day, was like, this is
probably what I missed the most about the locker room.
Is this when I'm around my guys, just knowing that

(01:21:01):
it's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:02):
Yeah, no doubt about it. That everybody wants you to
be real.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
Yeah, real, you know what I mean. And uh, you
don't always get that outside of the locker room, but
when we when we all get back together, this is
just what we do. It's naturally and Uh, any day
that you have a day full of emotions, whether I'm crying, happy, smiling, laughing.
If you can cry, laugh and have all these emotions
in the same day, that's a full day. That's a day.

(01:21:27):
Put a full day. And so congratulations on putting in
a full.

Speaker 1 (01:21:31):
Day, big dog. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Thank you guys. Thank you what you're doing with trust
everything else. Appreciate your guys' careers that you guys had
and continue to be a voice of the players. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Thanks man. It's all about you, your guys voices man,
and we got a great team that helps us out man,
So thank you for all of our viewers and listeners
out there, wherever you pick up your podcast, where this
Apple podcast, iHeartRadio app or anywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:21:52):
Else you listen to them.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
So trust me, man, leave a comment like, subscribe, share.
You can also check us out on the NFL pages
not new but YouTube channel. Just check them out anyways,
Peanut Man, get us out of here. Hey I'm Peanut.

Speaker 3 (01:22:06):
That's wrong, Bro, That's Kevin And this is the NFL
Player's second act podcast, We Out

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