January 9, 2025 • 40 mins
On this episode of Move the Sticks, Bucky Brooks is joined by special guest Lance Zierlein. The duo dives into what makes Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson such a coveted head coaching candidate in the NFL. They explore the challenges that come with transitioning from a successful coordinator to a head coach and whether Johnson can replicate his success with a new roster.
Next, they break down the Game of the Week: Packers vs. Eagles, predicting who will move on to the divisional round. Finally, they preview the College Football Playoff semifinals, highlighting key things to watch.
Tune in for all this and more on the latest episode of Move the Sticks!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:19):
Backslash NFL Welcome to Move the Sticks.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm Bucky Brooks and I am here with my man Alz.
Lance Zerline is stepping in for Daniel Jeremiah and we're
gonna talk all things football today. But before we do it,
I got to give a shout out to my guy
Agetown putting it down with up Lance.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm just subpacking rusher, just trying to come in and
create havoc and disrupt the pocket. That's all I'm trying
to do.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I love that we can call you anytime, just like
Mike Jones. I can't pay you one hundred K to
come and for the show, but I appreciate that in Agetown,
y'all steal respect.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Mike Jones like that.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And I look, I respect the fact that I'm able
to bring you on a week and talk all of
these things, and so what we want to talk today,
we want to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
How hot Ben Johnson is. He is the flavor of
the month when it comes to the head coaching search.
We're gonna talk about game of the week, the Green
Bay Packers taking on the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I think we'll talk about a little bit about this
college football playoff, the semi finals, and who you expect
to move on after the weekend is over. But let's
talk about it. Let's talk about Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson
is hot. Everyone loves him. He's certainly been putting on
the show with the Lions. They lead the NFL and
like points per game thirty three point two points per
game break second and total yards for game with four
(01:39):
nine point five.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
He has scheduled to interview with the Raiders, the Patriots,
the Bears, and then the Jaguars snuck in.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
One, tell me what you think about Ben Johnson, the
job that he's done with Jared Goff and the Detroit Lions.
And two, why do you believe so many people are
hot on his tail?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I mean everyone's I'm going to reverse order, I
mean everyone's hot on his on his scent, because look
at what he's done for the renaissance of Jared Goff
over the last couple of years, it's been unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And you remember Bucky you there in Los Angeles, people
are done with him.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
With the Rams, it started off with that bad game
in the Super Bowl, had no momentum.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
The next year people were done. They brought Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
In and it was like, man, what a you know,
what a what an unbelievable move for LA But it
turns out that it was a great move for Detroit
as well. And a lot of that has to go
I think to to I'm gonna get to Brad Holmes
in a second, but a lot of it goes to
Ben Johnson. I think Ben Johnson did a fantastic job
of recognizing what his quarterback did best, and then over time,
(02:45):
once the personnel came in and I don't know how
much you know, input he had on Gibbs for example,
or not, I would imagine a decent amount he was
able to, I think, work with Brad Holmes and start
picking up different pieces that made the most And that's
and you know, to me, he's he's a brilliant play caller.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You never know what he's going to do. He keeps you,
he keeps he keeps the game loose.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I mean, he's got more trick plays than anybody I've
ever seen in the NFL. A lot of times we
feel like, you know, that's a Dan Campbell. You see
that and you think, man, that's Dan Campbell riverboat. But
it's Ben Johnson calling the plays and designing those plays.
So I think there's a lot of that. But Bucky might.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You know, there's no question why he's hot.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I mean, he's gotten the most out of an offense,
He's got the most out of his quarterback.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
But the tricky part is when you have to say, Okay,
who is this guy as a head coach. It's one
thing to be a great play caller.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
It's one thing to be a great defensive coordinator like
Robert Solo was, but it's another when you have to
take over and lead an organization. And you know, I
didn't think Mike Frable was the best coordinator when he
was with the Houston Texans, for example. US coaching material though,
so you know, I mean he's made to be a
head coach. He may not be made to be a coordinator.
(04:02):
Some guys are made to be coordinators and maybe not
head coaches. You know, I think we're still finding out
what might be Daniel right now? How's that gonna? They
got some turmoil oil? And so it's easy to do
it when you're doing well, but when the adversity sets in,
how do you handle it? And now you've got to
figure out with Ben Johnson, how does he operate independent
(04:24):
of Dan Campbell, independent of Brad Holmes, making personnel decisions,
independent of all of the talent that has been aggregated
over these last few years. Nobody's going to be as
good without those elements. But if you're a real one,
then eventually the cream rises to the top. And I
think figuring out who the real ones are versus who
(04:45):
the good coordinators are, I don't.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Know how you do it.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I mean, I think you just have to have a
feel and as an organization when you interview, and you
have to have guys who know how to read situations
and kind of like feel out personalities in the in
their interviewing process.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Have you ever been involved in a coaching interview?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Have you ever sat in been in a room where
somebody was being interviewed and you had to and you
kind of were trying to read the person in a
short period of time like a card game.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
No, not at a high level in terms of like
understanding the interviewing process and head coaches and those things.
But what I can tell you know, I'll do this
and just so everyone kind of understands, like point of reference. So, uh,
doing my journey in Nation Football League, of the five
coaches once a Hall of Famer Marty Schottenhammer, three were
Super Bowl winners Mike Holmgren, Tom Coughlin, John Gruden, and
(05:38):
then the fourth, I mean the fifth was Marty Schottenhamer
who went two hundred wins. And so when I kind
of compare head coaches to like that compilation of guys
that were in front of the room, the one thing
that those guys were they were extremely consistent. They were detailed,
and they were disciplinarians when it came to the little things.
And so they created a culture of accountability and so
(05:59):
everyone always knew what the standards were and where the
lines were when it came to what you needed to do,
and if you didn't do that, then you're putting yourself
in jeopardy in terms of being on the team. I
think the hard thing to do is to look at
someone who's a coordinator and project out how they're going
to be as a head coach, because head coaching has
nothing to do with being a coordinator. Coordinator, you're responsible
(06:21):
for unit, but really you're a play caller. You're this
guy is trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
As the head coach, you are really managing people, and
you're also the biggest problem solver. And sometimes as a coordinator,
you may not have to answer or solve some of
the problems that exist on other parts of the team
because you're just responsible for your unit. And everyone that
(06:45):
is a great play caller isn't comfortable with the confrontation
that comes with being the head coach. What I would
also kind of warn people, and I will use Ben
Johnson as the example, but would make this point. So,
Ben Johnson is a great play caller, but Ben Johnson
has a lot of weapons and toys to play with.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
They have arguably the best offensive line in football. They
have a former number of work pick at quarterback in
Jerry Golf.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
They have a first round running back and Jamior Gibbs
who everyone slept on. But you can see the closeness
when he was at Georgia Tech and Alabama. You didn't
think about the receivers on the outside, Amaras Saint Brown,
who was underrated in the draft process, Sam la Port
who was the second round pick, Jameson Williams was the
first round pick. I mean, they have empty the clip
when it came to surrounding the quarterback and the play
(07:30):
caller with the best of the best, you take him
out that environment, is he going to be able to
do the same things somewhere else that doesn't have that setup.
So that's the part where you're trying to separate the
play caller from the guy that is able to really
benefit from all the weapons that he had, because if
you're not able to replicate exactly what he has, there's
(07:52):
no guarantee that he's going to be the same guy
that he's been probably's been in Detroit.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, And I think a big part of it is,
I mean, look, you're you're really only as good as
a quarterback. You can be only so good, but eventually,
if you don't get the quarterback right, you just you
can't stick around because you can't win.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
It's why teams make drastic decisions around quarterbacks. My guy
over in Indianapolis is fighting and scrap because you know,
he had Andrew Luck. Just shut it down. He went there,
he had Andrew Luck and all of a sudden he didn't.
And you see what happens, like you get caught up
in this. Do we play to win? Do we do
we take a step back and try to develop a quarterback?
(08:31):
What if we win too many games? We you know,
we're not in position to draft quarterbacks. It's a tricky
tricky road, the quarterback situation. So wherever been I think
wherever Ben Johnson. You know, when Ballard made that decision
to go to Indianapolis, one of the things that appealed
to him was he had a quarterback until he did
in his second year, and so or his third year,
(08:51):
I guess. So you know, even his first year, he
didn't realize how beat up Andrew Luck was and didn't
realize he wasn't going to have that year, and he
thought the best thing is is to get Andrew Luck right.
So let's just set them all year, get them physically right.
If you're Ben Johnson and you're making decisions like you know,
you look at the Jets, the roster looks good in
(09:12):
many regards, but at quarterback you're empty right now, realistically,
right you look at Caleb Williams and then Ben Johnson's
got to go back. And this is why Bucky I
remember asking this question of some scouts years ago, and
actually some front office people.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Why do you guys spend a lot of time?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Why are you interviewing players who are not You don't
have a need at quarterback, you don't have a need.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
A wide receiver. Why are you interviewing him?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And the answer was simple, Hey, there's always free agency.
Maybe this guy busts out and we want to look
at him down the road. But if you're Ben Johnson
and or you're an offensive coordinator that has or a
defense coordinator that's got a shot to elevate to a
head coaching role, I would imagine you want to talk
to as many of these guys as possible, especially quarterbacks,
because you look at Ben Johnson now, and he's got
(10:00):
to look at Caleb Williams. He's going to look at
the Tennessee situation like, you know, not great over there.
You don't have your GM in place right now, You're
gonna look at is Drake.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
May that guy.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
So if he did his work on Caleb Williams and
Drake May I don't know that he did a deep dive.
If he did, he's already got opinions on those guys.
And that's important because your job's going to be tied
to your quarterback.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, it is, and that's why it's also interesting that
the Jags are on the list. Obviously I'm tied to
the jack So knowing that team, well, a lot of
it will depend on For Ben Johnson, we talk.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
About quarterback and quarterback being that critical piece.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
What's his opinion of Trevor Lawrence and coming off a
situation where he just did a rehab project with Jered Goff,
does he feel like he could orchestrate a similar deal
with Trevor Lawrence. Look at it, assess it, say oh,
if we just fixed this and that we have a
quarterback that can play at the top five, top ten level,
and that will be enough with the rest of the
(10:58):
roster to get us over the hump.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Because one thing that we're seeing in the league now, the.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Patience is definitely not there for head coaches and you
can try and trick it when it comes to getting
contract extensions, and all that. But we're even seeing, particularly
on the gym side, where Ran Carthurin has just signed
an extension with four editions of years. That contract doesn't matter.
People are pay to get out of it. They don't care.
You have to be able to jump into place and
(11:24):
win right away while you're rebuilding. Ben Johnson has to
be able to do that. And that's why I would
say the most important part of the Ben Johnson question,
it's not only like the play calling and that stuff,
is who's coming with him in terms of his staff
and if he has the juice where he's gonna bring
(11:44):
a personnel man with him, who's coming with him to
reenact or recreate what they did in Detroit? Because everyone
wants a little bit of that sauce. Right, It looks
fun in Detroit, tough and they're grizzled and when you
look at war Feel, you see how the environment is,
so everyone wants to recreate that. But for Ben Johnson,
(12:06):
who are the people he can bring with him to
recreate what has been so successful in Detroit.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yeah, it's some of that. Bucky's ownership too.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Like you just talked about patients, Hey, impatient ownership is
the number one culprit when it comes to keeping a
team in flux and havoc and.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Understanding who your ownership is and.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Feeling like, you know, will this person support me, Will
they have the faith? Will they have the patience to
tune out the noise, because there's gonna be noise. If
you're not successful, there's gonna be noise. If you're successful,
there's noise. The Houston Texans are in the playoffs. They
won a division for the second time in a row.
The offense, you know, took a little step back this year.
(12:48):
Fans in Houston want Ben Slow, want Bobby Slowing the
offense coordinator. There's a huge contingency of fans who want
him gone. Just fire the play car if you don't
like the way things are going. This is all the
hottest prospects in the coaching carousel. Last year a guy
who got CJ. Stroud looking good. The offense was looking good.
This year, the protection is not as good. CJ regresses
(13:11):
a slow. It doesn't have the same feel, whatever the
case may be. Instead of it being, you know, it's
just a down year. Let's see what happens in year three.
You got people want to say, let's go get rid
of it's out. Let's go to the next one, on
to the next one. And you have to have ownership.
Who doesn't listen, who tunes out social media, tunes out
talk shows, tunes out the podcasts, and who is bought
(13:31):
in with the building, Like the building has to be
moving in a direction that is independent from any outside noise.
And that seems easy, but I think it's increasingly harder
and harder with the amplification of all of these voices
now that are typically a lot more negative. When you're
(13:51):
not doing well, it's hard to have. We're a microwave society, man,
so a guy like bench, you know. So on one hand,
we're microwave society. Bobby Slock is not a hot prospect anymore.
It took one year and now he's kind of rebuild himself.
But it's also a microwave society, and we'll get rid
of you quick. You know what you can You can
get there fast. You can become a hot name fast,
(14:12):
but you can become cold fast. And they, like you
said with Rand Carton, with Jared Mayo, with with a
lot of these guys, now these teams are ownership groups,
are just saying we don't think you're the right guy
onto the next one.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
And I mean it's good for it's.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Great if you got a big contract, you're chilling for
three or four years, But no one wants to do that.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Rand don't want to just sit and Lance will.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I will, but I'm me and Rand are probably built different,
so I'm sure he wants to still be out there
grinding and doing that.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
But if you want to mess.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Around and write me off, of scratch me off for a
three or four year deal and to get rid of me,
I mean, let me know.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
But no, I feel bad for those guys.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I feel bad for dry Mail, But I also understand
that Elliott Wolf and and Roberts guys, and so Manzo
high Smith. They like, if you're with the quarterback or
a head coach Bucky that you don't think is the
right guy.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
The longer you wait, the more your job is potentially
in danger.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, you wasting time.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And you know, the common denominator is really the quarterback
and the quarterback play.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
We've seen it.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So girod Mayo has the young quarterback, but then ownership
feels like, man, we need to make sure we give
the young quarterback what he needs to flourish and we
can build the rest of the team around the guy
that's really linked in with the quarterback. We're also seeing
the failures and look, let's be real, Ballot Ballet went
all in on Anthony Richardson, right, and so now they
(15:41):
gonna hit a crossroads, you know, this offseason. They have
to make a decision because Shane Stakeen and Chris Ballat,
they have their jobs on the line. Do they continue
to believe in Anthony Richardson or do they go and
get someone or hand the ball to Joe Flacco Right now,
I say, Joe, I need you to get us. We
need to get to the play so then we can
get the extension kind of build it the way that
(16:02):
we want.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
But that is a legitimate thing. And if you don't
have a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And I do wonder this because and I'm not being
Debbie Downer when.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I say this, but hey man, the.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Way Cayley Williams look this year, beyond the numbers, I'm
not saying he's a coach killer, but I have some
concerns about it because the perception is that he's going
to be Pat Mahomes two point oh. He's the guy
that whatever, and the coaches are messing in him up. Lance,
(16:34):
I'm just concerned that maybe he's not what many of
us thought he was going to be when he came
into the.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
National Football League.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I am too.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I have my concerns with the draft me. You can
read in my profile. The tape did not look like
all the generational stuff I had heard. You know, That's
why used in generational. We got to stop like I
used it. I probably used it Lawrence, but I thought
I actually had one, and I'm very hesitant to use
that phrase. But we got to stop throwing the word
generational out there for all that like, there was nothing
(17:02):
generational about Caleb Williams take.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
He made nice plays, but he also hung out of
the ball too long, did not throw at the anticipation.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
There was a lot of football stuff that we already
knew if you've done this long enough and you have Bucky.
There's certain things that take a lot longer to coach
out of a player, especially quarterbacks. So you know, with
offensive linemen it can be you know, lunging, it could
be different things with outside hands, with your punch.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I mean, every position has things that takes.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Longer to coach out of you, and for quarterbacks, unfortunately,
those can be the toughest because you're under such duress.
And so the generational tag all that did. All that
did was put it in. I don't think the Bears
necessarily thought he was generational, but that tag is out there,
and now Bears fans have these expectations, and like you said,
(17:49):
it feeds into a negative concept.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
I think, you know, based on what I saw from Caleb,
there's a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I still like a lot about Caleb, but I also
thought it was going to be a process for him
to break some of those bad hats. Jayden Daniels I
thought had the best tape any quarterback last year. It
translated he didn't both oh Nicks had second best tape
of anybody.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
But then I got a little scared when I saw
him a senior ball. I was thought, hey, it's not
as great there.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
He didn't feel like he had the same juice on
the field watching him throw at the combine. But also
in the back of my mind thought, man, if he
could somehow get with Sean Payton, they would be a
perfect match. And I just didn't think it could happen
because of the draft picks. I just thought they got
no second round pick. Seawan's not going to take him
this early, so Bo Nicks, you know, won't, won't go
to that team, and then he did, and then Michael
(18:34):
Pennix went early. And so now you know, now everyone's
job is on the line because every one of those
guys is playing now. And Will Levis, you know, did
did he put he was a second round he was
the second round picker?
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Did that? Did he kill ran carthin Is?
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You know Ballard with Ballard had to make this move,
he had to do something a quarterback, so he went Richardson.
But Richardson is a development It always was a developmental
prospect with high upside traits, but a lot of work
to be done. And then they lost almost his entire
rookie year to an injury, so you didn't get that
development in the first year.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
I mean, man, these quarterbacks, it makes me nervous. Is
talking about this. I'm like, man, well it does.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
But I think here's the lesson to be learned.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Right, So we can talk about Will Levis being a
second round quarterback. I mean you can even talk about
like Brock Perdy being a seventh rounder, Like we can
talk about value and it's a great find in all this,
but at the end of the day, Lance, no one
cares whoever you try to under center. They are judging
him based on is he a franchise quarterback or not.
And so as a decision maker team building, you're almost
(19:48):
better that if you don't like your guy in the
first round, don't waste your time getting someone else. Just
pun on it, find a veteran because no matter who
you put in. We saw in Atlanta with Desmond Ritter.
You've seen it and time again, like if you don't
find the right guy early, they're going to move on.
And it's one of those things that I love the
draft process, but we end up doing our sales a
(20:09):
disservice by.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Taking some of these developmental guys.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
And that's absolutely And you know, Indianapolis was caught in
a spot where they had gone older quarterback, older quarterback,
older quarterback. And I remember asking Chris Ballad on the
floor of the combine he was he was looking at
Richardson and he made a comment about, you know, how
talented he was or just you know, he'd made some throws.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And I said, but you can't possibly take him. You
got to win, and he made a comment that I
had a lot of respect for.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
He said, I'm going to do whatever I think is
best for the Colts, and if I get fired, I
get fired. But I gotta make moves that I think
for So even if a guy takes two or three
years and I'm not still here, if it's best for
mister ursay and it's best for the Colts, and we
develop it and he becomes a good player even after
I'm gone, then that's that's what my job is to do.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
And you want your.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
General managers not trying to cover their own asses, but
as head coaches, you want them trying to make moves
that are best for the organization. But when you're firing
these guys so fast, how do you not run? You know,
how do you not operate in cya mode? And another
point that you made about quarterbacks and interesting trend is
I think developing and it speaks to what you're talking about.
(21:16):
The second round is becoming like that's a dead round
for quarterbacks. If you if a guy thinks, if a
team thinks you can be a quarterback, we're taking you
in one.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
And if we don't think your.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Face of the franchise and we don't think you're a franchise.
We're taking you in three. And the Kindy picket.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Draft was one guy in the first and everyone else
went in the.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Three Matt Corral, Desmond Ritter, Malik Willis, they don't even
mess with the second round on quarterbacks. And I get
it because guess what, you still get fired off a
second round quarterback.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
You still second round still have that juice. It will
get you fired where third rounders are like, eh, they're backups.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
They're backups and maybe we scratch off a lottery ticket
and get lucky.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, it's the promise of it is literally the draft
position kind of sets you up to fail if you
don't hit it on the breakout.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So let's take a break. Lance. When we come back,
we will preview the game of the week.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
All right, it's time for Game of the Week, presented
by Draft Kings Sportsbook. This week it's the Green Bay
Packers taking on the Philadelphia Eagles. The spread is minus
four and a half favorite the Eagles the over unders
forty five.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
And a half.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And Lance, we just spent that first segment talking about
quarterbacks and quarterback play and those things, and.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Here we have two quarterbacks. If Jalen Hurst plays that are.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Really intriguing, really been developed in different ways, but they're really.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Critical to both team's success.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
When we talk about the Philadelphia Eagles and the running
game and all the different things that they bring, look
they bring to the table. What stands out to you
about the Eagles in this contest and what they got
to get done on offense?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, I think the Eagles for me has been you know,
the play of Quinnon Mitchell so raggedy in the secondary
last year in pass pro, and he's really added to
see a rookie ad that element of stability on the
back end. I think that's that's a big part of it.
But I mean it starts in the ends with Saquon Barkley.
(23:16):
This has been the year of the running back and
maybe no one more my draft grades. I joked that
my draft grades are looking a whole lot better this year,
Bucky on guys like Sam Darnald, Like, oh see, maybe
I wasn't wrong on Sam Donald.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
You know they took about five years, six years, Oh
maybe I wasn't. You know Saquon.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I had this unbelievably high grade on Saquon and we
didn't see it ever. Materialize in the Giants, but you
see it this year. So I think the addition of
that big time running back and Saquon Barkley takes a
tremendous amount of pressure off of Hurts, off of the
play caller, off of the team to generate, to find
(23:56):
a way to generate offense. When Hurts isn't throwing the ball. Well,
you got a guy now that you can throw swing
passes to, or you can give the ball to him
twenty five times, and Sequon can go win a game.
And I think we you know, there's been I get
the analytics behind the running back arguments over the years
and historically, yes, you can find running backs outside of
(24:17):
the first round.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
But when you have a really good running back, it
makes everyone's life easier. Kyron Williams makes things easier on
the rams. He wasn't even a it was a Day
three pick. I don't care where you're picked. When you
have a guy that can control tempo, they can get
tough yards and they can score touchdowns in a variety
of ways. I think it's it's what has turned Detroit
(24:41):
into Detroit with their two headed monster. And I think,
you know, in a way the two headed monster of
Hurts and Saquon Barkley. It makes them a more consistent team.
They're less likely to have the huge ups and downs.
So I think what I love about him is that
it hurts him playing well.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
It doesn't anymore. It could be a saque.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Game, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
And that's the thing, and I think that's the thing
that everyone has to understand, Like the more balanced you are,
the ability to have the running game.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
And it's not lost on me that most.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Of the teams in the playoffs have really, really good
workhorse running backs that can alleviate some of the pressure
on them. These two teams we're talking about Phil Eagles
with Sayore Barkley, but the Green Bay Packers having Josh
Jacobs who had nearly fourteen hundred yards and gave them
the juice that they needed. It alleviated some of the
pressure on Jordan Love to have to do everything. And
(25:33):
when you have the ability to run the ball, what
it does is it creates they play opportunities on the perimeter,
whether it's the deep ball off play action, whether it's
a tight boxes we're going to stretch from side to
side with the screens and the swing game all of
those things matter, and to me, when we look at
the eas the Eagles can get away with Jalen Hurst
and not having his a game, the Packers can't. The
(25:55):
Packers need Jordan Love to play at a high level
because all eyes are going to be on Jordan Love.
We know Vig Fangio is going to try and minimize
his impact. Jordan Love is going to have to make
the Eagles pay when they either load the box or
when they have those opportunities to attack down the field.
But let me say this, and we said it in
the draft two years ago when Jalen Carter was coming
(26:16):
out prior to the all field issues cloud near evaluation.
That's why you need to grade the player on tape.
You can put like the little addendums about his character,
but Jalen Clark is exactly who we thought he was
going to be when he came into the league.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, if I remember, he was my top rated player
in that draft, and just Jeffrey Simmons. I remember he
had some stuff also, he was injured and I had
him way up there as well when.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
He was coming out.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Those are two guys that look physically dominant and play
physically dominant on tape, and once you throw those guys
in an environment of professional football, with professional weight training,
professional nutrition, if you have any desire to be great,
you're more than likely going to grasp that opportunity.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
And once that happens, the traits and the talent explode.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And so it should not be a surprise that Jalen
Carter is doing what he's doing because it was all
on tape. I mean, he was the most talented prospect
in that draft. You understand why fell, but you also
understand why a team like Philadelphia said, ooh, we're going
to move up and get the best player in a
draft and we'll figure out the other stuff because we're
(27:29):
not passing on this opportunity, this talent. You get burned,
You can get burned by it from time to time,
but at this point it looks like in you know,
an unbelievable steal and one of the catalysts for you know,
a chance to make another Super Bowl run, because frankly,
you look at the injuries that Detroit has and it's
it's astounding that they are not only still standing but thriving.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
But can they do it through the rest of the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
We have to.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
See especially when you look at the defensive talent on
that Eagles roster, that is that's something that is you know,
is going to make life a little bit more difficult
for anyone playing them this year.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, and so okay, so who you got in this one? Lance,
Because I'm looking at the Packers the ability to turn
it over.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I like their defense.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
You can't cant out the Packers' ability to create a
big play in the kicking game. Because Rich Pasati one
of the best special teams coach coaches out there.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
They can they can make the game kind of money.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But I will say this, and I've told people this before,
sometimes there's more pressure on the home team in these
playoff games because when you're the home team, if you
happen to fall behind.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
All the inks, all the anxiety you can feel in
the stadium.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So to me, it is all about the Eagles having
to jump out on them from the jump, because if
they don't, you know, They're fans will turn on them.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I just I don't see the Eagles losing this. I
think the Eagles win. I think they cover.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think you know, I look at this and I think, Josh,
it's going to be a lot harder to run between
the tackles, and that's been one of the magic of
Josh Jacobs and Green Bay is that they've been able
to run between the tackles and he can go break
tackles and extend runs. But I think that Josh Jacobs
the action make it spilled a little bit wider.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
I don't know if the wide receivers from Green Bay,
if you really have a group.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Of guys that can take over, I do know you
have it with the Eagles, and I just think Eagles
have been there.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
They've done that.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
They've got two great running backs, but one I think
is a little bit better with Sakuon Barkley. And then
when you look at the trenches, I give the trench
advantage to the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So I think there's a lot of things flowing in
Eagles favor.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I know that you know, Jalen Hurts just made it
back from the concussions, so that's obviously something you have
to keep an eye on. But as we've talked about previously,
you mentioned Jordan Love, Jordan Loves got to have a
big game.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Jalen Hurts doesn't have to have a big game to
win this one.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So I think there's too much right now, there's too
much pressure on his should I think there's no margin
for error on Green Bay side, where there is some
margin freyre where you still win if you're Philadelphia.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
That's one of the reasons I really like Philly here.
I like them to win by a touchdown or more.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Okay, all right, so we're both gonna take things because
I just went on that riff about them being there.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
But there are more talented team. They're a team that
should move on. They have it going. Let's just see
if they can handle the pressure of having to deal
with it. In the link download the Draft Kings Sportsbook app.
Now use code MTS.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
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Speaker 2 (30:30):
Only are DraftKings Sportsbook with code MTS. The crown is yours.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
So Lance, right before we go, you know, we got
to talk about these college football playoff games. We have
Ohio State take it on Texas. I know everyone in
your state is really hook them horns.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
They're excited about the law.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Not everyone, not everyone, Bucky. Oh, I mean, there's a
lot of Aggie's in the state. There's a lot of
people I don't like Texas.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I just felt like all you guys would have your
horns up ready to go because the school of the State. Yeah,
so I feel like, Ohi's day Texas. That's gonna be
talked about. And then Notre Dame versus Penn State, let's
start on that. When Notre Dame Penn State, when you
look at that game and you look at the talent
on both teams, what stands out to you?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Well, I think Drew Aller. You know, it's a battle
of the quarterbacks for me. Drew Aller had a nice
bounce back year this year. You look at Riley Leonard
and Riley is one of those classic Riley and Will
Howard have some things in common in terms of how
tough they both are their gamers. They make big plays
at big times. The games don't get too big for him.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I think Leonard is a better runner than Will Howard.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
But you know, the question is going to be can
Drew Aller beat Notre Dame from the pocket and then
can Riley Leonard? Can he stress that really talented defensive
front and pass rush led by Duel Carter from Penn State.
Is he going to be able to stress those guys
with his legs. I think this has been a wonderful
year for Marcus Freeman. I'm just so impressed. They lost
(31:57):
a couple of starters on the offensive line early in
the year, got better and better and better and better.
They were on the short list of our teams that
we consider putting into uh you know, the the Joe
Moore Awards semi finalists. They really improved over the over
the course of the year. They're running a ball well.
I think defensively they found their their groove. So there's
(32:18):
a lot of reasons to like Notre Dame. But I
think the thing that that concerns me the most is
how will Notre Dame's offensive line hold up against the
rush and.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Then can Notre Dame stop Drew Aller, who I think
is built for games like this.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
You don't always see it, but I think this is
a game that is the weather's going to be good,
you know, it's.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Not going to be cold. I think I think it.
I think it benefits Penn State.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I know Penn State is like I think Notre Dame
is a small favorite because of how they're playing, but
this is a very even game and I lean a
little bit to Penn State.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
And yeah, no, it's funny because I look at Notre
Dame and I will say that you can see the
work that they've done since they'd lost in.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Those BCS games.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You know, over the previous decade, how they've become a bigger,
more physical team.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And I'm being honest, like when I watched the old line.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
And didn't get together before the game, and you hear
their leader talk about, this is the f you game.
We're gonna run it down their throat and they're gonna
do all these things. Notre Dame has an edge to
them that didn't exist. Marcus Freeman has really done a
really good job of kind of creating this culture where
they kind of have some tough guys. In terms of
the way that they're going. Penn State is I would
(33:29):
say more dynamic on defense, but really, man, these are
mirrored images in terms of the way these teams are built.
I'm gonna go with Notre Dame in this one over
in Penn State, and I don't really have a reason,
because look, he comes down to the quarterback play whether
you have Riley Leonard or Drew Allett. But there's something
about the way Notre Dame is getting after it, and
(33:51):
I'm just gonna kind of say, I'm gonna say they
kind of get it done. Maybe it's the hype video.
Maybe it's the Rick Ross hype video that they put out.
Maybe it's the young Jezy thing that they put out
a few weeks ago. Their social team has kind of
swayed me. So that's why I'm going with Notre Dame.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
That's good enough. That's good enough for me.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
It's a toss up, all right, Let's go Ohio State Texas.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, Ohio State is being the team that many of
us expected them to be when they showed up this season.
Everyone talks about the twenty million dollars payroll. It didn't
necessarily come to fruition when they lost to Oregon in
Michigan during the regular season, but in the playoffs they
had clearly been the best team.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
How do you think this one goes down?
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Well, you know, on paper, this should be Ohio State.
You look at it and Texas. No one's played like
Ohio State has. I mean, they stopped a good Tennessee defense,
they made them look like they were playing in mud,
and then you know, they completely dominated that Oregon team.
And so you look at You've got the most talented
(34:55):
receiver in all college football who's a freshman over there.
But you got three NFL wide receivers at Ohio State
who are going to be on the field at the
same time. Two NFL running backs at Ohio State. You've
got you know, you've got a lot of but the
problem is you've had a lot of injuries.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
And NFL left tackle is not going to be playing
because he's hurt. An NFL center is not going to
be playing because he's hurt and out for the year.
So it's this weird you know, they tell you that
you went into trenches. Well, you know Texas is beat
up on the offensive line as well. They're not one
hundred percent healthy. So we got to see what the
right tackle looks like with Williams and see if Banks
(35:31):
can hold up over the course of a game because
he's had some problems holding up because he's got a
nagging injury.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Their center, Jake Major, has made it back. But if
you want to talk about the trenches, it favors Texas
because Texas has a lot of NFL guys up front,
Like they've got real talent up front.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
And I think that's you know, that's where we're going
to have to see.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Can they pressure that makeshift line of Ohio State so
that the wide receivers don't have time to get open
because if they, if Will Howard has time to throw,
it's a rap for Texas.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
You just it's a rap for anything. You just can't.
You can't beat that level of talent.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Out there, certainly not man to man, so you have
to play a lot of his own potentially.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
And then on the other side, is quin yours.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Is he that guy like I don't think he show
them that he's that guy that can step up. He
couldn't beat Kirby Smart in two times they had a
chance to beat Kirby Smart Georgia, and that's and that's
a weak Georgia team relative to most Georgia teams, and
quinn Ewers just couldn't step up and get that done.
Can he finally really rise to the occasion in a
spotlight game. If he can't, you have no chance. Now,
(36:39):
Michigan or Michigan. It was not a good offensive game
when they beat Oha State, but they took that game
and put it in in a phone booth.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And I think Ohio State maybe learn something. We're not
that team. We can act like we're not that team.
Well we are that team, but you got to be
who you are.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
And if Texas get them to try to play a
smashmouth game of tech, can get the running game going
with Wisner. If they can get their running and going
on the play action game with Matthew Golden opens up,
they've got a shot. But I mean, I just I
have to see Quinn yours. Can he take a game
by the throat and make it his a game of
(37:19):
this magnitude?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I don't know. Will Howard doesn't really have to.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
He just has to get the ball the guys in
space and let them do their things. Quinn Yours is
gonna have to go win this game, and I don't
know if he has that juice Bucky, I really don't.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
No, it's funny because Ohio State is the most down
to the team and so really, man, if this was
a gold match, all they need to do is just
take the three wood out, just hit it in the
fairway and let their playmakers go. We saw what happened
when Oregon decided they're gonna let Jeremiah Smith have one
on one coverage. He absolutely cooked them in a quarter
and a half and then open it up for the
rest of the playmakers to go busy, to get busy.
(37:54):
For Texas, it is about Quinn Ewers finding a way
to kind of deal with Jim Knowle's defense because Knowles
is going to bring some funny and some different looks
at him and he's going to have to be able
to deliver. And for Quinn Yours, to me, this is
an opportunity game. This is an opportunity for him to
kind of put some respect back on his name as
it relates to the NFL Draft, because at the beginning
(38:16):
of the season we were talking about him maybe being
the QB one of the class that went away despite
him having a really good game against Michigan and some
other moments. If he has a great game against Ohio State,
it changes the narrative about his game and his potential.
That's why there's a lot of pressure on him. But
in spite of that, I think Ohio State Beatson because
(38:37):
Texas barely beat Arizona State and really should have lost
to Arizona State. This is Ohio State's to win. I
think we see Ohio State advance to the championship game.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
When you get a couple of coaches who need that
big game win too.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Sark I think are great coaches, I really do. But
it's funny because some narratives build around Sark can't win
these big games. Right, he lost the SEC championship game.
He couldn't beat Georgia the first time around. You know,
last year he lost in that game against Michigan and
the playoffs, and Sark's done a really good job of
(39:08):
building a program.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
But this is an opportunity game for Sark as well
and for Ryan Day.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Hey, you win the title and you wipe out you know,
I don't know that you can completely wipe out the
loss of Michigan. I'm not sure Ohio State fans, I
don't know if it works that way for them, But
I mean for me, I'm like, man, Ryan Day, win,
the big game thing is gone. If you win this game,
you still have to come. You used to have to
(39:36):
be Michigan.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But right now they look ridiculous when they talk about
like potentially firing Ryan Day when all he has done
is just.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
When and when and when, with the exception of you know,
the Michigan game.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
So it'd be great we'll get a chance to talk
about it after it's all said and done. I appreciate
you jumping on quickly to talk about Ben Johnson, to
preview the game of the week, and to talk about
college football playoffs.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I'm Bucket Brucks, just Land Ze. This was moved to six.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
H m hmmm yeah, mhm
We're all heartbroken by the devastation and destruction from the
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by these fires urgently need support. Help the American Red
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You can donate today to support relief efforts by going
to Redcross dot org.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Backslash NFL Welcome to Move the Sticks.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
I'm Bucky Brooks and I am here with my man Alz.
Lance Zerline is stepping in for Daniel Jeremiah and we're
gonna talk all things football today. But before we do it,
I got to give a shout out to my guy
Agetown putting it down with up Lance.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
I'm just subpacking rusher, just trying to come in and
create havoc and disrupt the pocket. That's all I'm trying
to do.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I love that we can call you anytime, just like
Mike Jones. I can't pay you one hundred K to
come and for the show, but I appreciate that in Agetown,
y'all steal respect.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Mike Jones like that.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And I look, I respect the fact that I'm able
to bring you on a week and talk all of
these things, and so what we want to talk today,
we want to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
How hot Ben Johnson is. He is the flavor of
the month when it comes to the head coaching search.
We're gonna talk about game of the week, the Green
Bay Packers taking on the Philadelphia Eagles.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I think we'll talk about a little bit about this
college football playoff, the semi finals, and who you expect
to move on after the weekend is over. But let's
talk about it. Let's talk about Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson
is hot. Everyone loves him. He's certainly been putting on
the show with the Lions. They lead the NFL and
like points per game thirty three point two points per
game break second and total yards for game with four
(01:39):
nine point five.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
He has scheduled to interview with the Raiders, the Patriots,
the Bears, and then the Jaguars snuck in.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
One, tell me what you think about Ben Johnson, the
job that he's done with Jared Goff and the Detroit Lions.
And two, why do you believe so many people are
hot on his tail?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, I mean everyone's I'm going to reverse order, I
mean everyone's hot on his on his scent, because look
at what he's done for the renaissance of Jared Goff
over the last couple of years, it's been unbelievable.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
And you remember Bucky you there in Los Angeles, people
are done with him.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
With the Rams, it started off with that bad game
in the Super Bowl, had no momentum.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
The next year people were done. They brought Matthew Stafford.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
In and it was like, man, what a you know,
what a what an unbelievable move for LA But it
turns out that it was a great move for Detroit
as well. And a lot of that has to go
I think to to I'm gonna get to Brad Holmes
in a second, but a lot of it goes to
Ben Johnson. I think Ben Johnson did a fantastic job
of recognizing what his quarterback did best, and then over time,
(02:45):
once the personnel came in and I don't know how
much you know, input he had on Gibbs for example,
or not, I would imagine a decent amount he was
able to, I think, work with Brad Holmes and start
picking up different pieces that made the most And that's
and you know, to me, he's he's a brilliant play caller.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
You never know what he's going to do. He keeps you,
he keeps he keeps the game loose.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I mean, he's got more trick plays than anybody I've
ever seen in the NFL. A lot of times we
feel like, you know, that's a Dan Campbell. You see
that and you think, man, that's Dan Campbell riverboat. But
it's Ben Johnson calling the plays and designing those plays.
So I think there's a lot of that. But Bucky might.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
You know, there's no question why he's hot.
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I mean, he's gotten the most out of an offense,
He's got the most out of his quarterback.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
But the tricky part is when you have to say, Okay,
who is this guy as a head coach. It's one
thing to be a great play caller.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
It's one thing to be a great defensive coordinator like
Robert Solo was, but it's another when you have to
take over and lead an organization. And you know, I
didn't think Mike Frable was the best coordinator when he
was with the Houston Texans, for example. US coaching material though,
so you know, I mean he's made to be a
head coach. He may not be made to be a coordinator.
(04:02):
Some guys are made to be coordinators and maybe not
head coaches. You know, I think we're still finding out
what might be Daniel right now? How's that gonna? They
got some turmoil oil? And so it's easy to do
it when you're doing well, but when the adversity sets in,
how do you handle it? And now you've got to
figure out with Ben Johnson, how does he operate independent
(04:24):
of Dan Campbell, independent of Brad Holmes, making personnel decisions,
independent of all of the talent that has been aggregated
over these last few years. Nobody's going to be as
good without those elements. But if you're a real one,
then eventually the cream rises to the top. And I
think figuring out who the real ones are versus who
(04:45):
the good coordinators are, I don't.
Speaker 4 (04:48):
Know how you do it.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I mean, I think you just have to have a
feel and as an organization when you interview, and you
have to have guys who know how to read situations
and kind of like feel out personalities in the in
their interviewing process.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Have you ever been involved in a coaching interview?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Have you ever sat in been in a room where
somebody was being interviewed and you had to and you
kind of were trying to read the person in a
short period of time like a card game.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
No, not at a high level in terms of like
understanding the interviewing process and head coaches and those things.
But what I can tell you know, I'll do this
and just so everyone kind of understands, like point of reference. So, uh,
doing my journey in Nation Football League, of the five
coaches once a Hall of Famer Marty Schottenhammer, three were
Super Bowl winners Mike Holmgren, Tom Coughlin, John Gruden, and
(05:38):
then the fourth, I mean the fifth was Marty Schottenhamer
who went two hundred wins. And so when I kind
of compare head coaches to like that compilation of guys
that were in front of the room, the one thing
that those guys were they were extremely consistent. They were detailed,
and they were disciplinarians when it came to the little things.
And so they created a culture of accountability and so
(05:59):
everyone always knew what the standards were and where the
lines were when it came to what you needed to do,
and if you didn't do that, then you're putting yourself
in jeopardy in terms of being on the team. I
think the hard thing to do is to look at
someone who's a coordinator and project out how they're going
to be as a head coach, because head coaching has
nothing to do with being a coordinator. Coordinator, you're responsible
(06:21):
for unit, but really you're a play caller. You're this
guy is trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
As the head coach, you are really managing people, and
you're also the biggest problem solver. And sometimes as a coordinator,
you may not have to answer or solve some of
the problems that exist on other parts of the team
because you're just responsible for your unit. And everyone that
(06:45):
is a great play caller isn't comfortable with the confrontation
that comes with being the head coach. What I would
also kind of warn people, and I will use Ben
Johnson as the example, but would make this point. So,
Ben Johnson is a great play caller, but Ben Johnson
has a lot of weapons and toys to play with.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
They have arguably the best offensive line in football. They
have a former number of work pick at quarterback in
Jerry Golf.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
They have a first round running back and Jamior Gibbs
who everyone slept on. But you can see the closeness
when he was at Georgia Tech and Alabama. You didn't
think about the receivers on the outside, Amaras Saint Brown,
who was underrated in the draft process, Sam la Port
who was the second round pick, Jameson Williams was the
first round pick. I mean, they have empty the clip
when it came to surrounding the quarterback and the play
(07:30):
caller with the best of the best, you take him
out that environment, is he going to be able to
do the same things somewhere else that doesn't have that setup.
So that's the part where you're trying to separate the
play caller from the guy that is able to really
benefit from all the weapons that he had, because if
you're not able to replicate exactly what he has, there's
(07:52):
no guarantee that he's going to be the same guy
that he's been probably's been in Detroit.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, And I think a big part of it is,
I mean, look, you're you're really only as good as
a quarterback. You can be only so good, but eventually,
if you don't get the quarterback right, you just you
can't stick around because you can't win.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
We know that.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
It's why teams make drastic decisions around quarterbacks. My guy
over in Indianapolis is fighting and scrap because you know,
he had Andrew Luck. Just shut it down. He went there,
he had Andrew Luck and all of a sudden he didn't.
And you see what happens, like you get caught up
in this. Do we play to win? Do we do
we take a step back and try to develop a quarterback?
(08:31):
What if we win too many games? We you know,
we're not in position to draft quarterbacks. It's a tricky
tricky road, the quarterback situation. So wherever been I think
wherever Ben Johnson. You know, when Ballard made that decision
to go to Indianapolis, one of the things that appealed
to him was he had a quarterback until he did
in his second year, and so or his third year,
(08:51):
I guess. So you know, even his first year, he
didn't realize how beat up Andrew Luck was and didn't
realize he wasn't going to have that year, and he
thought the best thing is is to get Andrew Luck right.
So let's just set them all year, get them physically right.
If you're Ben Johnson and you're making decisions like you know,
you look at the Jets, the roster looks good in
(09:12):
many regards, but at quarterback you're empty right now, realistically,
right you look at Caleb Williams and then Ben Johnson's
got to go back. And this is why Bucky I
remember asking this question of some scouts years ago, and
actually some front office people.
Speaker 4 (09:28):
Why do you guys spend a lot of time?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Why are you interviewing players who are not You don't
have a need at quarterback, you don't have a need.
Speaker 4 (09:36):
A wide receiver. Why are you interviewing him?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
And the answer was simple, Hey, there's always free agency.
Maybe this guy busts out and we want to look
at him down the road. But if you're Ben Johnson
and or you're an offensive coordinator that has or a
defense coordinator that's got a shot to elevate to a
head coaching role, I would imagine you want to talk
to as many of these guys as possible, especially quarterbacks,
because you look at Ben Johnson now, and he's got
(10:00):
to look at Caleb Williams. He's going to look at
the Tennessee situation like, you know, not great over there.
You don't have your GM in place right now, You're
gonna look at is Drake.
Speaker 4 (10:11):
May that guy.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
So if he did his work on Caleb Williams and
Drake May I don't know that he did a deep dive.
If he did, he's already got opinions on those guys.
And that's important because your job's going to be tied
to your quarterback.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Yeah, it is, and that's why it's also interesting that
the Jags are on the list. Obviously I'm tied to
the jack So knowing that team, well, a lot of
it will depend on For Ben Johnson, we talk.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
About quarterback and quarterback being that critical piece.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
What's his opinion of Trevor Lawrence and coming off a
situation where he just did a rehab project with Jered Goff,
does he feel like he could orchestrate a similar deal
with Trevor Lawrence. Look at it, assess it, say oh,
if we just fixed this and that we have a
quarterback that can play at the top five, top ten level,
and that will be enough with the rest of the
(10:58):
roster to get us over the hump.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Because one thing that we're seeing in the league now, the.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Patience is definitely not there for head coaches and you
can try and trick it when it comes to getting
contract extensions, and all that. But we're even seeing, particularly
on the gym side, where Ran Carthurin has just signed
an extension with four editions of years. That contract doesn't matter.
People are pay to get out of it. They don't care.
You have to be able to jump into place and
(11:24):
win right away while you're rebuilding. Ben Johnson has to
be able to do that. And that's why I would
say the most important part of the Ben Johnson question,
it's not only like the play calling and that stuff,
is who's coming with him in terms of his staff
and if he has the juice where he's gonna bring
(11:44):
a personnel man with him, who's coming with him to
reenact or recreate what they did in Detroit? Because everyone
wants a little bit of that sauce. Right, It looks
fun in Detroit, tough and they're grizzled and when you
look at war Feel, you see how the environment is,
so everyone wants to recreate that. But for Ben Johnson,
(12:06):
who are the people he can bring with him to
recreate what has been so successful in Detroit.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yeah, it's some of that. Bucky's ownership too.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
Like you just talked about patients, Hey, impatient ownership is
the number one culprit when it comes to keeping a
team in flux and havoc and.
Speaker 4 (12:24):
Understanding who your ownership is and.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
Feeling like, you know, will this person support me, Will
they have the faith? Will they have the patience to
tune out the noise, because there's gonna be noise. If
you're not successful, there's gonna be noise. If you're successful,
there's noise. The Houston Texans are in the playoffs. They
won a division for the second time in a row.
The offense, you know, took a little step back this year.
(12:48):
Fans in Houston want Ben Slow, want Bobby Slowing the
offense coordinator. There's a huge contingency of fans who want
him gone. Just fire the play car if you don't
like the way things are going. This is all the
hottest prospects in the coaching carousel. Last year a guy
who got CJ. Stroud looking good. The offense was looking good.
This year, the protection is not as good. CJ regresses
(13:11):
a slow. It doesn't have the same feel, whatever the
case may be. Instead of it being, you know, it's
just a down year. Let's see what happens in year three.
You got people want to say, let's go get rid
of it's out. Let's go to the next one, on
to the next one. And you have to have ownership.
Who doesn't listen, who tunes out social media, tunes out
talk shows, tunes out the podcasts, and who is bought
(13:31):
in with the building, Like the building has to be
moving in a direction that is independent from any outside noise.
And that seems easy, but I think it's increasingly harder
and harder with the amplification of all of these voices
now that are typically a lot more negative. When you're
(13:51):
not doing well, it's hard to have. We're a microwave society, man,
so a guy like bench, you know. So on one hand,
we're microwave society. Bobby Slock is not a hot prospect anymore.
It took one year and now he's kind of rebuild himself.
But it's also a microwave society, and we'll get rid
of you quick. You know what you can You can
get there fast. You can become a hot name fast,
(14:12):
but you can become cold fast. And they, like you
said with Rand Carton, with Jared Mayo, with with a
lot of these guys, now these teams are ownership groups,
are just saying we don't think you're the right guy
onto the next one.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
And I mean it's good for it's.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Great if you got a big contract, you're chilling for
three or four years, But no one wants to do that.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Rand don't want to just sit and Lance will.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
I will, but I'm me and Rand are probably built different,
so I'm sure he wants to still be out there
grinding and doing that.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
But if you want to mess.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Around and write me off, of scratch me off for a
three or four year deal and to get rid of me,
I mean, let me know.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
But no, I feel bad for those guys.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I feel bad for dry Mail, But I also understand
that Elliott Wolf and and Roberts guys, and so Manzo
high Smith. They like, if you're with the quarterback or
a head coach Bucky that you don't think is the
right guy.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
The longer you wait, the more your job is potentially
in danger.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, you wasting time.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
And you know, the common denominator is really the quarterback
and the quarterback play.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
We've seen it.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So girod Mayo has the young quarterback, but then ownership
feels like, man, we need to make sure we give
the young quarterback what he needs to flourish and we
can build the rest of the team around the guy
that's really linked in with the quarterback. We're also seeing
the failures and look, let's be real, Ballot Ballet went
all in on Anthony Richardson, right, and so now they
(15:41):
gonna hit a crossroads, you know, this offseason. They have
to make a decision because Shane Stakeen and Chris Ballat,
they have their jobs on the line. Do they continue
to believe in Anthony Richardson or do they go and
get someone or hand the ball to Joe Flacco Right now,
I say, Joe, I need you to get us. We
need to get to the play so then we can
get the extension kind of build it the way that
(16:02):
we want.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
But that is a legitimate thing. And if you don't
have a quarterback.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And I do wonder this because and I'm not being
Debbie Downer when.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I say this, but hey man, the.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Way Cayley Williams look this year, beyond the numbers, I'm
not saying he's a coach killer, but I have some
concerns about it because the perception is that he's going
to be Pat Mahomes two point oh. He's the guy
that whatever, and the coaches are messing in him up. Lance,
(16:34):
I'm just concerned that maybe he's not what many of
us thought he was going to be when he came
into the.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
National Football League.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I am too.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I have my concerns with the draft me. You can
read in my profile. The tape did not look like
all the generational stuff I had heard. You know, That's
why used in generational. We got to stop like I
used it. I probably used it Lawrence, but I thought
I actually had one, and I'm very hesitant to use
that phrase. But we got to stop throwing the word
generational out there for all that like, there was nothing
(17:02):
generational about Caleb Williams take.
Speaker 4 (17:04):
He made nice plays, but he also hung out of
the ball too long, did not throw at the anticipation.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
There was a lot of football stuff that we already
knew if you've done this long enough and you have Bucky.
There's certain things that take a lot longer to coach
out of a player, especially quarterbacks. So you know, with
offensive linemen it can be you know, lunging, it could
be different things with outside hands, with your punch.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
I mean, every position has things that takes.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Longer to coach out of you, and for quarterbacks, unfortunately,
those can be the toughest because you're under such duress.
And so the generational tag all that did. All that
did was put it in. I don't think the Bears
necessarily thought he was generational, but that tag is out there,
and now Bears fans have these expectations, and like you said,
(17:49):
it feeds into a negative concept.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
I think, you know, based on what I saw from Caleb,
there's a lot of things.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
I still like a lot about Caleb, but I also
thought it was going to be a process for him
to break some of those bad hats. Jayden Daniels I
thought had the best tape any quarterback last year. It
translated he didn't both oh Nicks had second best tape
of anybody.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
But then I got a little scared when I saw
him a senior ball. I was thought, hey, it's not
as great there.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
He didn't feel like he had the same juice on
the field watching him throw at the combine. But also
in the back of my mind thought, man, if he
could somehow get with Sean Payton, they would be a
perfect match. And I just didn't think it could happen
because of the draft picks. I just thought they got
no second round pick. Seawan's not going to take him
this early, so Bo Nicks, you know, won't, won't go
to that team, and then he did, and then Michael
(18:34):
Pennix went early. And so now you know, now everyone's
job is on the line because every one of those
guys is playing now. And Will Levis, you know, did
did he put he was a second round he was
the second round picker?
Speaker 4 (18:49):
Did that? Did he kill ran carthin Is?
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You know Ballard with Ballard had to make this move,
he had to do something a quarterback, so he went Richardson.
But Richardson is a development It always was a developmental
prospect with high upside traits, but a lot of work
to be done. And then they lost almost his entire
rookie year to an injury, so you didn't get that
development in the first year.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
I mean, man, these quarterbacks, it makes me nervous. Is
talking about this. I'm like, man, well it does.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
But I think here's the lesson to be learned.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Right, So we can talk about Will Levis being a
second round quarterback. I mean you can even talk about
like Brock Perdy being a seventh rounder, Like we can
talk about value and it's a great find in all this,
but at the end of the day, Lance, no one
cares whoever you try to under center. They are judging
him based on is he a franchise quarterback or not.
And so as a decision maker team building, you're almost
(19:48):
better that if you don't like your guy in the
first round, don't waste your time getting someone else. Just
pun on it, find a veteran because no matter who
you put in. We saw in Atlanta with Desmond Ritter.
You've seen it and time again, like if you don't
find the right guy early, they're going to move on.
And it's one of those things that I love the
draft process, but we end up doing our sales a
(20:09):
disservice by.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Taking some of these developmental guys.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
And that's absolutely And you know, Indianapolis was caught in
a spot where they had gone older quarterback, older quarterback,
older quarterback. And I remember asking Chris Ballad on the
floor of the combine he was he was looking at
Richardson and he made a comment about, you know, how
talented he was or just you know, he'd made some throws.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
And I said, but you can't possibly take him. You
got to win, and he made a comment that I
had a lot of respect for.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
He said, I'm going to do whatever I think is
best for the Colts, and if I get fired, I
get fired. But I gotta make moves that I think
for So even if a guy takes two or three
years and I'm not still here, if it's best for
mister ursay and it's best for the Colts, and we
develop it and he becomes a good player even after
I'm gone, then that's that's what my job is to do.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
And you want your.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
General managers not trying to cover their own asses, but
as head coaches, you want them trying to make moves
that are best for the organization. But when you're firing
these guys so fast, how do you not run? You know,
how do you not operate in cya mode? And another
point that you made about quarterbacks and interesting trend is
I think developing and it speaks to what you're talking about.
(21:16):
The second round is becoming like that's a dead round
for quarterbacks. If you if a guy thinks, if a
team thinks you can be a quarterback, we're taking you
in one.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
And if we don't think your.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Face of the franchise and we don't think you're a franchise.
We're taking you in three. And the Kindy picket.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Draft was one guy in the first and everyone else
went in the.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Three Matt Corral, Desmond Ritter, Malik Willis, they don't even
mess with the second round on quarterbacks. And I get
it because guess what, you still get fired off a
second round quarterback.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
You still second round still have that juice. It will
get you fired where third rounders are like, eh, they're backups.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
They're backups and maybe we scratch off a lottery ticket
and get lucky.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah, it's the promise of it is literally the draft
position kind of sets you up to fail if you
don't hit it on the breakout.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So let's take a break. Lance. When we come back,
we will preview the game of the week.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
All right, it's time for Game of the Week, presented
by Draft Kings Sportsbook. This week it's the Green Bay
Packers taking on the Philadelphia Eagles. The spread is minus
four and a half favorite the Eagles the over unders
forty five.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
And a half.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
And Lance, we just spent that first segment talking about
quarterbacks and quarterback play and those things, and.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Here we have two quarterbacks. If Jalen Hurst plays that are.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Really intriguing, really been developed in different ways, but they're really.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Critical to both team's success.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
When we talk about the Philadelphia Eagles and the running
game and all the different things that they bring, look
they bring to the table. What stands out to you
about the Eagles in this contest and what they got
to get done on offense?
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, I think the Eagles for me has been you know,
the play of Quinnon Mitchell so raggedy in the secondary
last year in pass pro, and he's really added to
see a rookie ad that element of stability on the
back end. I think that's that's a big part of it.
But I mean it starts in the ends with Saquon Barkley.
(23:16):
This has been the year of the running back and
maybe no one more my draft grades. I joked that
my draft grades are looking a whole lot better this year,
Bucky on guys like Sam Darnald, Like, oh see, maybe
I wasn't wrong on Sam Donald.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
You know they took about five years, six years, Oh
maybe I wasn't. You know Saquon.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
I had this unbelievably high grade on Saquon and we
didn't see it ever. Materialize in the Giants, but you
see it this year. So I think the addition of
that big time running back and Saquon Barkley takes a
tremendous amount of pressure off of Hurts, off of the
play caller, off of the team to generate, to find
(23:56):
a way to generate offense. When Hurts isn't throwing the ball. Well,
you got a guy now that you can throw swing
passes to, or you can give the ball to him
twenty five times, and Sequon can go win a game.
And I think we you know, there's been I get
the analytics behind the running back arguments over the years
and historically, yes, you can find running backs outside of
(24:17):
the first round.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
But when you have a really good running back, it
makes everyone's life easier. Kyron Williams makes things easier on
the rams. He wasn't even a it was a Day
three pick. I don't care where you're picked. When you
have a guy that can control tempo, they can get
tough yards and they can score touchdowns in a variety
of ways. I think it's it's what has turned Detroit
(24:41):
into Detroit with their two headed monster. And I think,
you know, in a way the two headed monster of
Hurts and Saquon Barkley. It makes them a more consistent team.
They're less likely to have the huge ups and downs.
So I think what I love about him is that
it hurts him playing well.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
It doesn't anymore. It could be a saque.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Game, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
And that's the thing, and I think that's the thing
that everyone has to understand, Like the more balanced you are,
the ability to have the running game.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
And it's not lost on me that most.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Of the teams in the playoffs have really, really good
workhorse running backs that can alleviate some of the pressure
on them. These two teams we're talking about Phil Eagles
with Sayore Barkley, but the Green Bay Packers having Josh
Jacobs who had nearly fourteen hundred yards and gave them
the juice that they needed. It alleviated some of the
pressure on Jordan Love to have to do everything. And
(25:33):
when you have the ability to run the ball, what
it does is it creates they play opportunities on the perimeter,
whether it's the deep ball off play action, whether it's
a tight boxes we're going to stretch from side to
side with the screens and the swing game all of
those things matter, and to me, when we look at
the eas the Eagles can get away with Jalen Hurst
and not having his a game, the Packers can't. The
(25:55):
Packers need Jordan Love to play at a high level
because all eyes are going to be on Jordan Love.
We know Vig Fangio is going to try and minimize
his impact. Jordan Love is going to have to make
the Eagles pay when they either load the box or
when they have those opportunities to attack down the field.
But let me say this, and we said it in
the draft two years ago when Jalen Carter was coming
(26:16):
out prior to the all field issues cloud near evaluation.
That's why you need to grade the player on tape.
You can put like the little addendums about his character,
but Jalen Clark is exactly who we thought he was
going to be when he came into the league.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
Yeah, if I remember, he was my top rated player
in that draft, and just Jeffrey Simmons. I remember he
had some stuff also, he was injured and I had
him way up there as well when.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
He was coming out.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Those are two guys that look physically dominant and play
physically dominant on tape, and once you throw those guys
in an environment of professional football, with professional weight training,
professional nutrition, if you have any desire to be great,
you're more than likely going to grasp that opportunity.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
And once that happens, the traits and the talent explode.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
And so it should not be a surprise that Jalen
Carter is doing what he's doing because it was all
on tape. I mean, he was the most talented prospect
in that draft. You understand why fell, but you also
understand why a team like Philadelphia said, ooh, we're going
to move up and get the best player in a
draft and we'll figure out the other stuff because we're
(27:29):
not passing on this opportunity, this talent. You get burned,
You can get burned by it from time to time,
but at this point it looks like in you know,
an unbelievable steal and one of the catalysts for you know,
a chance to make another Super Bowl run, because frankly,
you look at the injuries that Detroit has and it's
it's astounding that they are not only still standing but thriving.
Speaker 4 (27:51):
But can they do it through the rest of the playoffs.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
We have to.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
See especially when you look at the defensive talent on
that Eagles roster, that is that's something that is you know,
is going to make life a little bit more difficult
for anyone playing them this year.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, and so okay, so who you got in this one? Lance,
Because I'm looking at the Packers the ability to turn
it over.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I like their defense.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
You can't cant out the Packers' ability to create a
big play in the kicking game. Because Rich Pasati one
of the best special teams coach coaches out there.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
They can they can make the game kind of money.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
But I will say this, and I've told people this before,
sometimes there's more pressure on the home team in these
playoff games because when you're the home team, if you
happen to fall behind.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
All the inks, all the anxiety you can feel in
the stadium.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
So to me, it is all about the Eagles having
to jump out on them from the jump, because if
they don't, you know, They're fans will turn on them.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
I just I don't see the Eagles losing this. I
think the Eagles win. I think they cover.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I think you know, I look at this and I think, Josh,
it's going to be a lot harder to run between
the tackles, and that's been one of the magic of
Josh Jacobs and Green Bay is that they've been able
to run between the tackles and he can go break
tackles and extend runs. But I think that Josh Jacobs
the action make it spilled a little bit wider.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
I don't know if the wide receivers from Green Bay,
if you really have a group.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Of guys that can take over, I do know you
have it with the Eagles, and I just think Eagles
have been there.
Speaker 4 (29:24):
They've done that.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
They've got two great running backs, but one I think
is a little bit better with Sakuon Barkley. And then
when you look at the trenches, I give the trench
advantage to the Eagles.
Speaker 4 (29:34):
So I think there's a lot of things flowing in
Eagles favor.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
I know that you know, Jalen Hurts just made it
back from the concussions, so that's obviously something you have
to keep an eye on. But as we've talked about previously,
you mentioned Jordan Love, Jordan Loves got to have a
big game.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Jalen Hurts doesn't have to have a big game to
win this one.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
So I think there's too much right now, there's too
much pressure on his should I think there's no margin
for error on Green Bay side, where there is some
margin freyre where you still win if you're Philadelphia.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
That's one of the reasons I really like Philly here.
I like them to win by a touchdown or more.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Okay, all right, so we're both gonna take things because
I just went on that riff about them being there.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
But there are more talented team. They're a team that
should move on. They have it going. Let's just see
if they can handle the pressure of having to deal
with it. In the link download the Draft Kings Sportsbook app.
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Speaker 1 (30:25):
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Speaker 2 (30:30):
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Speaker 1 (30:35):
So Lance, right before we go, you know, we got
to talk about these college football playoff games. We have
Ohio State take it on Texas. I know everyone in
your state is really hook them horns.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
They're excited about the law.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Not everyone, not everyone, Bucky. Oh, I mean, there's a
lot of Aggie's in the state. There's a lot of
people I don't like Texas.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
I just felt like all you guys would have your
horns up ready to go because the school of the State. Yeah,
so I feel like, Ohi's day Texas. That's gonna be
talked about. And then Notre Dame versus Penn State, let's
start on that. When Notre Dame Penn State, when you
look at that game and you look at the talent
on both teams, what stands out to you?
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Well, I think Drew Aller. You know, it's a battle
of the quarterbacks for me. Drew Aller had a nice
bounce back year this year. You look at Riley Leonard
and Riley is one of those classic Riley and Will
Howard have some things in common in terms of how
tough they both are their gamers. They make big plays
at big times. The games don't get too big for him.
Speaker 4 (31:32):
I think Leonard is a better runner than Will Howard.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
But you know, the question is going to be can
Drew Aller beat Notre Dame from the pocket and then
can Riley Leonard? Can he stress that really talented defensive
front and pass rush led by Duel Carter from Penn State.
Is he going to be able to stress those guys
with his legs. I think this has been a wonderful
year for Marcus Freeman. I'm just so impressed. They lost
(31:57):
a couple of starters on the offensive line early in
the year, got better and better and better and better.
They were on the short list of our teams that
we consider putting into uh you know, the the Joe
Moore Awards semi finalists. They really improved over the over
the course of the year. They're running a ball well.
I think defensively they found their their groove. So there's
(32:18):
a lot of reasons to like Notre Dame. But I
think the thing that that concerns me the most is
how will Notre Dame's offensive line hold up against the
rush and.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Then can Notre Dame stop Drew Aller, who I think
is built for games like this.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
You don't always see it, but I think this is
a game that is the weather's going to be good,
you know, it's.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
Not going to be cold. I think I think it.
I think it benefits Penn State.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I know Penn State is like I think Notre Dame
is a small favorite because of how they're playing, but
this is a very even game and I lean a
little bit to Penn State.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
And yeah, no, it's funny because I look at Notre
Dame and I will say that you can see the
work that they've done since they'd lost in.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
Those BCS games.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
You know, over the previous decade, how they've become a bigger,
more physical team.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And I'm being honest, like when I watched the old line.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
And didn't get together before the game, and you hear
their leader talk about, this is the f you game.
We're gonna run it down their throat and they're gonna
do all these things. Notre Dame has an edge to
them that didn't exist. Marcus Freeman has really done a
really good job of kind of creating this culture where
they kind of have some tough guys. In terms of
the way that they're going. Penn State is I would
(33:29):
say more dynamic on defense, but really, man, these are
mirrored images in terms of the way these teams are built.
I'm gonna go with Notre Dame in this one over
in Penn State, and I don't really have a reason,
because look, he comes down to the quarterback play whether
you have Riley Leonard or Drew Allett. But there's something
about the way Notre Dame is getting after it, and
(33:51):
I'm just gonna kind of say, I'm gonna say they
kind of get it done. Maybe it's the hype video.
Maybe it's the Rick Ross hype video that they put out.
Maybe it's the young Jezy thing that they put out
a few weeks ago. Their social team has kind of
swayed me. So that's why I'm going with Notre Dame.
Speaker 4 (34:06):
That's good enough. That's good enough for me.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
It's a toss up, all right, Let's go Ohio State Texas.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Yeah, Ohio State is being the team that many of
us expected them to be when they showed up this season.
Everyone talks about the twenty million dollars payroll. It didn't
necessarily come to fruition when they lost to Oregon in
Michigan during the regular season, but in the playoffs they
had clearly been the best team.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
How do you think this one goes down?
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Well, you know, on paper, this should be Ohio State.
You look at it and Texas. No one's played like
Ohio State has. I mean, they stopped a good Tennessee defense,
they made them look like they were playing in mud,
and then you know, they completely dominated that Oregon team.
And so you look at You've got the most talented
(34:55):
receiver in all college football who's a freshman over there.
But you got three NFL wide receivers at Ohio State
who are going to be on the field at the
same time. Two NFL running backs at Ohio State. You've
got you know, you've got a lot of but the
problem is you've had a lot of injuries.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
And NFL left tackle is not going to be playing
because he's hurt. An NFL center is not going to
be playing because he's hurt and out for the year.
So it's this weird you know, they tell you that
you went into trenches. Well, you know Texas is beat
up on the offensive line as well. They're not one
hundred percent healthy. So we got to see what the
right tackle looks like with Williams and see if Banks
(35:31):
can hold up over the course of a game because
he's had some problems holding up because he's got a
nagging injury.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Their center, Jake Major, has made it back. But if
you want to talk about the trenches, it favors Texas
because Texas has a lot of NFL guys up front,
Like they've got real talent up front.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
And I think that's you know, that's where we're going
to have to see.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
Can they pressure that makeshift line of Ohio State so
that the wide receivers don't have time to get open
because if they, if Will Howard has time to throw,
it's a rap for Texas.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
You just it's a rap for anything. You just can't.
You can't beat that level of talent.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
Out there, certainly not man to man, so you have
to play a lot of his own potentially.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
And then on the other side, is quin yours.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Is he that guy like I don't think he show
them that he's that guy that can step up. He
couldn't beat Kirby Smart in two times they had a
chance to beat Kirby Smart Georgia, and that's and that's
a weak Georgia team relative to most Georgia teams, and
quinn Ewers just couldn't step up and get that done.
Can he finally really rise to the occasion in a
spotlight game. If he can't, you have no chance. Now,
(36:39):
Michigan or Michigan. It was not a good offensive game
when they beat Oha State, but they took that game
and put it in in a phone booth.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
And I think Ohio State maybe learn something. We're not
that team. We can act like we're not that team.
Well we are that team, but you got to be
who you are.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
And if Texas get them to try to play a
smashmouth game of tech, can get the running game going
with Wisner. If they can get their running and going
on the play action game with Matthew Golden opens up,
they've got a shot. But I mean, I just I
have to see Quinn yours. Can he take a game
by the throat and make it his a game of
(37:19):
this magnitude?
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I don't know. Will Howard doesn't really have to.
Speaker 3 (37:23):
He just has to get the ball the guys in
space and let them do their things. Quinn Yours is
gonna have to go win this game, and I don't
know if he has that juice Bucky, I really don't.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
No, it's funny because Ohio State is the most down
to the team and so really, man, if this was
a gold match, all they need to do is just
take the three wood out, just hit it in the
fairway and let their playmakers go. We saw what happened
when Oregon decided they're gonna let Jeremiah Smith have one
on one coverage. He absolutely cooked them in a quarter
and a half and then open it up for the
rest of the playmakers to go busy, to get busy.
(37:54):
For Texas, it is about Quinn Ewers finding a way
to kind of deal with Jim Knowle's defense because Knowles
is going to bring some funny and some different looks
at him and he's going to have to be able
to deliver. And for Quinn Yours, to me, this is
an opportunity game. This is an opportunity for him to
kind of put some respect back on his name as
it relates to the NFL Draft, because at the beginning
(38:16):
of the season we were talking about him maybe being
the QB one of the class that went away despite
him having a really good game against Michigan and some
other moments. If he has a great game against Ohio State,
it changes the narrative about his game and his potential.
That's why there's a lot of pressure on him. But
in spite of that, I think Ohio State Beatson because
(38:37):
Texas barely beat Arizona State and really should have lost
to Arizona State. This is Ohio State's to win. I
think we see Ohio State advance to the championship game.
Speaker 4 (38:45):
When you get a couple of coaches who need that
big game win too.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Sark I think are great coaches, I really do. But
it's funny because some narratives build around Sark can't win
these big games. Right, he lost the SEC championship game.
He couldn't beat Georgia the first time around. You know,
last year he lost in that game against Michigan and
the playoffs, and Sark's done a really good job of
(39:08):
building a program.
Speaker 4 (39:09):
But this is an opportunity game for Sark as well
and for Ryan Day.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Hey, you win the title and you wipe out you know,
I don't know that you can completely wipe out the
loss of Michigan. I'm not sure Ohio State fans, I
don't know if it works that way for them, But
I mean for me, I'm like, man, Ryan Day, win,
the big game thing is gone. If you win this game,
you still have to come. You used to have to
(39:36):
be Michigan.
Speaker 1 (39:37):
But right now they look ridiculous when they talk about
like potentially firing Ryan Day when all he has done
is just.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
When and when and when, with the exception of you know,
the Michigan game.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
So it'd be great we'll get a chance to talk
about it after it's all said and done. I appreciate
you jumping on quickly to talk about Ben Johnson, to
preview the game of the week, and to talk about
college football playoffs.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I'm Bucket Brucks, just Land Ze. This was moved to six.
We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
H m hmmm yeah, mhm
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Daniel Jeremiah
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