January 10, 2025 • 32 mins
On this episode of Move the Sticks, Bucky Brooks is joined by Lance Zierlein. In this episode, the guys have some fun by ranking the quarterbacks headed into the postseason—but with a twist! Instead of ranking them 1-14, they break them down into four tiers. Where they place these quarterbacks may spark some heated debates, so you won’t want to miss it!
Lastly, they review the NFLPA All-Pro List and discuss standout players who earned top honors this season.
Tune in for all this and more on the latest Move the Sticks!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to move sticks.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am Bucky Brooks with my man lance Z joining
me feeling and for Daniel, Jeremiah and Elz, today is
a fun day because we got the playoffs ahead. But
rather than do a traditional playoff preview that everybody in
their mom is going to do, we want to preview
the playoffs by using the quarterbacks kind of as the
lynchpin to who we believe is going to have an
(00:29):
opportunity to go far in the tournament. So what I
want to do is we're going to talk about the
fourteen quarterbacks that are in the playoffs. We're going to
rank them in tiers. So we have four tiers. We
have Tier one being the elites, Tier two being Jeff
shat greatness these quarterbacks and knocking on the door of
being elite. Tier three they're hot right now, but can
(00:51):
they handle the playoff pressure? And Tier four unpredictable with
some question marks. And so Lance I'm gonna let's throw
out a quarterbacks. Let's talk about like in the AFC,
we got Pat Mahomes, we have Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,
c Shrowd, Justin Herbert Russell, Wilson, and bow Nicks. In
(01:13):
the NFC, we got Jerry Goff, Dalon Hurts, Baker Mayfield,
Matthew Stafford, Sam Donald, Jaden Daniels, and Jordan Love and
so overall, what are your thoughts on the quarterbacks that
are in the postseason tournament? Do you have a strong
field or opinion all the guys they meet?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
If we're gonna turn this out, you know, the elite
quarterbacks to me, there are three and they're all in
the AFC, and they're all one, two three. I know
this hasn't been Pat mahomes best year, but out of respect,
there's really nothing else that you can do but expect
Pat Mahomes to show up at big moment. So I
would say, you know, Mahomes, Seash Allen, and Lamar Jackson
(01:58):
are in that tier one group.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Is there anyone that you would add or.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Some dreamy and saucy.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So when we talk about the elites, the guys that
are there, I agree with you in those three have
my homes. Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson certainly is there. If
there is someone that I would say is kind of
on the line, This is tough because I go back
and forth between like Justin Herbert and Jerry Goff. And
(02:27):
the reason why I say Justin Herbert being the guy
that I kind of put on that line is take
the numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Away from this year.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We've seen in previous years that Justin Herbert has played
at that level. We've seen this year when they've had
to rely on him to make plays, he's done it.
I will put him in that Tier one category and
I'll fight anybody else who says he shouldn't be in there.
I just feel like talent wise, he has all of
that and this is going to be a showcase opportunity
(02:54):
for him to join in that conversation as being one
of the elites at the position.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
One means that you can put the team on your back, though, right, yeah,
go full great Jennings and put the whole team on you.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
You got that ability.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You're good with him, Okay, because I know the other
three can do it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
The other three we've seen we've seen do it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Okay, Well, look, okay, so you know what, I'll drop
Herbert down to tier two. But if we're talking about
the criteria for being elite is putting the team on
the back.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And then that means Jayde Daniels come on into the
to the room.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Because if that's the criterion, we Jayde Daniels has to
come because we saw Jaydon Daniels put the Commanders on
his back. He's looking he's Deck of the year. He
was in the conversation for most of the season about
being MVP until he hurt his ribs, and then at
Lance when he got back healthy and they needed him,
(03:53):
he's done that. I mean when I look at this
commander's team for the elite players, I mean when you
talking about Terry McLaurin, he doesn't have to really run
into blackfield. The offensive line is an elite I mean, look,
this dude is is kind of pulling rapids out of hats.
So if anyone deserves to go in there, I would
(04:14):
say that there are four guys those three that you
mentioned in the AFC that.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Mahomes, Josh and Lauren Jackson and then j Dands. Yeah,
Jay and Danis has to be in there.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I remind you my quarterback C. J. Stroud, he's in
Tier four right now. Yeah, and that man was up
having the same time.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
We were having the same conversations about CJ last year
headed end of this year, and now CJ's in the unpredictable.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
With question marks. I mean, and I'm getting real, that's
what that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I mean, that's where he is.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So I've seen the tier ones are the guys that
we talked about having super hero powers, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen,
Lamar Jackson, and then my bonus fake is gonna be
Jane Daniels. He gets into it. So now let's now
let's go tier two. Because I talked about just Herbert,
but I'm gonna put justin Herbert in tier two.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Who deserves to be in that tier category.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I'm gonna go, I would say Herbert Golf. I mean,
I take tier two very serious. So I'm gonna say
Herbert off. I think you have to go Stafford out
of respect for the game.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And the game that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
He can play like he can have those big games.
And then I got to decide if I'm going to
put hurts are Love there, and I'm gonna say, I'm
gonna say, you know what, No, I'm not putting anyone
else there.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I'm done.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Okay, So so we have Herbert, we have Golf, and
we have Stafford.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Those are the three. Those are the three that we
have in Tier two.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
So Tier two.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Is defined as it has been defined Tier two. Just
these quarterbacks are knocking on the door of elite status. Now,
obviously you can't really say that about Matt Stafford because
he's an older quarterback, But in terms of can he
rise to the occasion to have an elite game, because
(06:13):
that's what we're talking about in the you know when
once you get in the playoffs, I think he could
still put together a big game. Yes, I think Herbert
for sure is there. You have to put Jared Goff there.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Some people would argue with me about Stafford versus Love
or Stafford versus Hearts, and I think it's a legitimate argument.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I think it's a legitimate argument.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Now, look, I think we're good.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
So like I think Herbert, Golf and Stafford, I would
say yes to all of them.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And in fact, I know.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
We could talk about Mayfield playing Gray, Sam Donald playing great,
but then we're talking about being elite. Yeah, I think
I'm gonna go with it. I think it's I think
it's really tight. I think I think that's it. I
think we it's debatable about the others. But if we're
that means you ain't in the category because it should
be clearly obvious. So all right, So we have four
(07:07):
guys and Tier one home Mahomes Allan, Jackson Daniels. Tier two,
we have Herbert Golf and Stafford Tier three, which is
I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Hey, I'm gonna switch it up.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I'm gonna switch it up.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Let's do Tier four first and then everyone else left
is tier three? Okay, because I want to see I
want to put you to the test and see who
you believe is.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
The definition is unpredictable with.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Question marks like where do you put where do you
put CJ. Stroud, Where do you put Russell Wilson, Where
do you put Sam I'm thinking Sam Donald's going to
be Tier three obviously the only he played.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Who do you think is tier four? Those guys that
you think.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Now you're gonna unpredicted that you're gonna have them mad
at me. Now I'm gonna get shouted out after the game.
They're gonna be they be talking to the sideline reporter.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's a game.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
But Brooks, looky, I saw you handle that guy from
U c l A. Back in the day after he
stared at you. I'm not worried about you. I'm not
worried about you. I've seen you deal with those guys.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Okay, let's see, all right, So we're talking about the unable. Look,
so Russell Wilson has to be there, based on how
they're playing right now.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
C J.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Stroud has to be in that conversation. Unpredictable with question
marks I'm putting.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I'm putting Nixon there, man, I don't know what.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
He put it down against the Kansas City Chiefs. I'm
putting Nickson all the Kansas City Chiefs, they put it down.
They barely even suited up for that game. All right,
it gets there.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
We had to get the Bengals up out of there,
all right. So we got two dates. Okay, so we
c J.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Straw, Russell Wilson, bow Knicks.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I'm gonna say, bo Nicks, I don't know about you.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Bucky, but i'm gonna say I haven't seen them playing
this kind of rookies in these big games.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
It's rough, it's rough. And where does he go?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Mm hmm?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
All right, old weather Buffalo?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
All right, So we got bow Knicks in force. And
now what we're saying is the guy.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
We don't.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I mean, I'm to make it out I'm coming with you. Hey, hey, hey,
no no argument, no argument for me. But I'm just
I'm just saying, I just want to make sure because
I'm putting this out there for the universe, and I
want to make sure you feel okay about when they
when they start, they start me and Muggy you and
they start talking about and Zarren wrote this.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
But I didn't right back and all that. I just
want to make sure you're okay, okay being the coming
after you.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
I've already I've already got that Matt Jorden.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I'm his enemy for life because he thought I had
a bad scatter report on him. Supposedly Juju Smith huesh
Or retweeted him running for a long touchdown. I circled
my scatter import and said he didn't have long speed,
which he doesn't and didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I was right.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And then I've got dk Metcalf, who I gave the
highest grade of anybody like in the whole draft to sphere.
He's got my weaknesses cut out and put in his locker.
I'm used to Bucky, Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I'm not you'd be getting to smoke from folks talking
fucking bad about it.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
You're getting.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Hey, once you put out one mock draft on NFL
dot com and the NFL retweets it, you will never.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Have most more smoke in your entire life. You know
that you're right. I feel comfortable putting I.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Feel comfortable putting Sam Darnold and and and uh Baker
Mayfield in the third category, the hot players. I feel
comfortable with them being I think they're a perfect fit
from tier three.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I'm curious though, on like.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Love, once we get to love Hurts, who else whom
I'm missing here loving Hurts?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I guess Love and Hurts?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Are they tier three? We bump them in a tier two?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
I can't put them in. I can't put them into two.
I can't put them knocking on the door to delete.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
So I don't either. If that's the definition, I can't do.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I can't. I can't say they knocking on the door.
M hmm.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Man, I look, I think I think that's where we
act though. I think we have to put Hurts Love
in that category, like they've been high. But then we
got to see how they're gonna handle the playoff freshure, right,
I mean unless you unless you're trying to drop them
down to unpredictable with some question marks.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean, I don't really have some you can't. I
guess you could try to make that argument if you want.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Some people might argue that for Jalen Hurts because you
know some issues in the playoffs at the time.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I wouldn't do that right now.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So you've heard Love overhears or hears, so.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I would personally put well, I think Love can control
the game potentially with passing, but I think of the
two teams, I feel better with how Hurts doesn't have
to do as much.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
So it's that I think.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Because you don't just like Justin Herbert doesn't have to
do as much as he used to, which has made
him a better quarterback.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Josh Allen, the running game has.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Improved this year, so in a weird way, it's taken
a lot of pressure off of him.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
He still performs at a high level.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
He does the same things he's always done, but he
didn't feel that same pressure.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I think Jordan Love feels a tremendous well.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I don't know if he feels the pressure, but it's there,
like he's got to do a lot for them to win,
and I don't think you know the team that he's playing.
I don't think Hurts has to do as much to win.
So I think Hurts can kind of free stroke it
out there. I think he can play loose and free,
and I think with Love, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna
put him both than three though, but I would put
Hurts above Love just for this playoff run.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay, So we got Bakery. We got Baker Mayfield in there, right,
we feel good about.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
We got Baker's gonna be Bakers. Who would you put ahead? Okay?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So if we're ranking them, so we're ranking the top four,
how are you ranking those.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Four quarterbacks the top four?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And there in group three, we got Hurts, we got Love,
we got Baker, we got Sam Darnald.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
How you how you sack.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Man?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Baker's is right on the line because I think Baker
is Baker's smoking right now, like he's bumping up against
the tier two situation. So I would go Baker first,
then Sam Murs, I think.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Then I would say Love and then Hurts.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Baker really is playing well that that Lion's game shaped
a little bit with Sam.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Donald, He's blowing leaves.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Me in fact, man, when you really look at the
season that Baker had, Man, you can talk about you
can talk about Baker being right up in Tier two
almost man like. He's I mean, the way he's played, he's,
you know what, Baker like. I think I'm gonna move
Baker up to Tier two. I think I'm gonna move Baker.
Baker had forty five yard I think I think I think.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
We were done with Baker. The league was the league
was done with Baker.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
He was just they somehow scraped him off the sidewalk
to play for the Rams and he pulled pulled that
Rams went out of his out of his hat.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Two years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I remember that body.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I mean, it was like for Baker, good for Baker.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And that is the lesson to be learned when we
talk about the quarterbacks and those things. Hey man, that
thing is not easy, and sometimes you got to give
guys opportunities to find their way to other situations. And
Baker found a home and it's really worked out for him.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Let's let's look at that eighteen draft again.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Now, two years ago, we would have said, Josh Lamar
and a bunch of trash. What you're saying, is Josh
and Lamar guys. Baker Mayfield, what a resurgence, what a
what a good quarterback he is. And look at Sam Darnold.
He just needed to have right play caller, the right
pieces around him.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
And now you're just.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Left with Joshua what's his name, Josh Josh Rosen. I mean,
Josh Rosen's out. But those other four guys now, all
of a sudden, the twenty eighteen quarterback draft. So it
looks a lot different, doesn't.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It looks a lot different, And it tells you about
a couple of things.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
He tells you about the patience that you need to
have for quarterback, but it also how important the environment,
the situation is. Right environment, right situation, right play called,
all these guys can have success.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
But I do think that Alan, I think Josh Allen
and Lamar, I think they transcend. I think they transcend
where they are, like, I think they could be these
guys wherever you put them. Eventually, as long as you
put decent pieces around them, I think those guys are
going to be special. There's very that to me, those
are the guys that should get paid the biggest money.
(16:09):
Like right now, the NFL has a mode where they
next up. I guess you're just next up to get
fifty million.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Want to operate that way. Baseball is like, no, if
you're not that good, you don't get paid like that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Realistically, the guys at that stat at that level that
can succeed through adversity, can succeed no matter where they are,
that are special. I mean, I know we got three
of them for sure that are all playing in the AFC.
They're in the AFC playoffs. I think maybe you put both.
You maybe have to put Joe Burrow there, as long
as he's healthy. Joe Burrow looks like he's got that special.
(16:46):
We're waiting to see it on Jayden Daniels. You made
a case for him. I got to see it happen
for for two to three years because I'm worried after
what happened with CJ.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Stroud this year. But it just goes to show you that, man,
you can want those.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You can want the next Josh Allen.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And everyone loves to throw Josh a dray may he
can next Josh Allen. You could also be chasing a unicorn.
So there's not a lot of those.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Not a lot of Josh Allen's running aund There's not
a lot of Lamar Jackson's. There's definitely not a lot
of Pat Mahomes running around. And so we got Jayden
to Lamar, we got I guess Drake may maybe to
Josh Allen would be the comparison. And then we had
the Caleb Williams and Patrick Mahomes. Those are rough comparisons, man,
(17:33):
that's a that's a high, high bar.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
You gotta and so if you're gonna set that bar,
you better help them coaching, help them with offensive line,
and help them with being patient.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
And that's the lesson of that eighteen draft.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But no one's given Baker Mayfield five six years, like
no one's given Sam that must say. It's just if
you're in a bad situation and you can't do it,
gotta go, gotta go.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
That's the way it is. Is It is such an
interesting thing. That's fascinating. I can't wait to kind of
see how it plays out. Interesting conversation. So Lance, we'll
come back after the break. Let's talk about the NFLPA
All Pro lists, all right, Lance, So the nfl PA
just release their all pro teams for the twenty twenty
(18:21):
four season.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
On offense, we'll go through it.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Lamar Jackson, you have Brock Bowers, Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson,
Takwon Barkley, Cal's you check, Tristan Wirfs, Joe Touney, Benna Sewell,
Chris Linstrom, and Create Humphrey. On defense, the first team
features Christ Jones, Jalen Carter, Trey Hendrickson, Miles Garrett, Dexter,
Lawrence Roklan Smith, Fred Warner.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Any Cayle Hamilton, and Pat Sortan Any.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
You can't score on you cannot score on that. You
don't think we score well, we're not scoring on that.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
D So let's let's let's talk about Let's talk about
the offense first. So Lamar Jackson gets.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, this offense is pretty strong.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I mean you were talking about that he scored. I'm like,
what you mean, I can't.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I need I need to see that game. I mean
I need to see I want that. I want that game.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I mean looked at the fascinating things.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
So the first thing that stands out to me, Lance,
how about rock bout you know, doing the draft process.
I know we always talk about like best player available,
and for a lot of us, brought powers was one
of the two three best players in the draft, and
he drops goes out up ten. But then he comes
and he plays. He is everything that we talked about.
(19:35):
What do you think about his season in Las Vegas?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Incredible?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's not like like you knew Brock was going to
get the ball and it didn't matter. He went in there,
and then we have to have those conversations about where
your draft tight ends and the value of tight end
is not good in the first round, and you know,
and then he comes out and has over one hundred catches,
over a thousand yards receiving, He breaks all these rookie records.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
He arguably is the offensive Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
He won't win it, but I mean, if you want
to just go by numbers, rock Bowers is your winner,
it's gonna be Jayden, and I think Jayden deserves to
win it this year. But you can make a case
for Brock and have no problem. Brock is an all Pro.
Brock is an all role and he's not gonna win
(20:29):
Offensive Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Let that sink. My man is the one in the league.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
He is, and win in the league.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And you're right, And I made a case a couple
of weeks ago on my notebook on NFL dot com.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Dad, Look, he should be certainly a contingent, he should
do it.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
But the end that Jayden Daniels reappeared, and Jayden Daniels
just does the thing. I mean, he put the thing.
He put the whammy on the Eagles to clinch your
playoff berth. And then he comes back to knock up
to the Cowboys. He continues to do his thing and
went healthy. This dude is dynamic.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And look, man, we can.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Talk about Lamar Jackson all the wonderful things that Lamar
Jackson was able to do, but the rookie Jaye Daniels
was more polished as a passer and playmaker than Lamar
Jackson was at this stage. And I love what ja
Lamar Jackson was able to do in terms of his
dynamic playmaking ability. How he may be a three time
MVP if they look at the numbers as opposed to
the story that has been the field good story that
(21:22):
Josh Allen has been, It's going to be interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Saikamon Barkley, Look.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think it is fascinated that he is up there
two thousand yard season. They sat him out the last game,
he potentially could have broke the record, but to Eric
Dickerson's delight, they sat him out and so Ed is
able to hold on to the record. But look, it's
just fascinating. And we talked about the lineman. I mean,
Tristan Wurston missed some games, but he's up there, benne Sewel,
(21:48):
Chris Linstrom, Greet Humphrey, all of those guys are in
the mix.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Defensively, though, we talked about that man, Jalen.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Carter and what he's been able to do for the
Philadelphia Eagles, the fact that he is an All Pro.
When we throw grays on players and we talked about
those top five, top teen grades. We're throwing those grades
forecasting that those guys are going to be All pros
early in their career. Jalen Carter has been all that
in a bag of.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Chips right away.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, he has Trey Hendrickson, you know, Miles Garretts, Miles
Garrett's he's one on one. I mean, he's you know,
he'll go down as one of the great pass rushers
of all time. But Trey Hendrickson has was unbelievable and
you know, you and I will be doing draft stuff
down the road, but it just goes to show you.
I mean I remember watching Trey Hendrickson at the East
West Shrine game and like, man, that dude's got a
(22:40):
nice spin move. Hey, he just kind of knows his
way around the pocket. He's got feel as a rusher.
They come from anywhere, They come from everywhere. Chris Jones
was the late first, Jayleen Carter was a dude, Miles
Garrett was a dude. Extra Lawrence was a dude. Trey
Hendrickson was like a fourth rounder. So they can come
from anywhere. Max Crosby, who did not make the list,
(23:01):
I mean, he's kind of like Trey Hendrickson. You know,
those dudes are built a little different. They just their
mentality is different. They're talented and they just play with
like just a tenaciousness as rushers that you know you
match it with the skill and uh and you can
go find guys. But it is it's interesting. I look
at both the offensive defense like it's a mixture of
dudes coming out and then guys like there was no
(23:25):
doubt on Saquan Lamar, Well, Lamar had questions, but Saquan Jamar,
Chase rock Bauers Tristan Wurf like Piney Sewel.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
But then you run into Chris lin Linstrom who was
the second round guard, and you run into Joe Toney,
and then you know the Trey Hendrickson. So you know
Fred Warner. I remember watching Fred Warner.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Like, man, this guy, I'm gonna put him in a
fourth I bet he could be a good backup and maybe.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
An eventual starter. I really like him.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
And then you know he has he has a good
backup to eventual starter.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
I thought he had a chance to become an eventual
an eventual starter. Instead he's the most dynamic linebacker in
the game today. And then you know, I think it's
another interesting point is it's Patzertan who me was the
cleanest corner that I've written in ten years since I've
been doing this here at NFL dot com. Then you
(24:17):
have Derek Stingley, who the Singly Sauce thing was getting
Houston was ready to run Nick Caserio out of town
because you have sauce.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Look how good sauce is. Now fast forward.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You know, three years, and Derek Stingley right now is
the better player of those two guys, and he's playing
at a ridiculous level. And of course Kyle Hamilton, who
I had as the number one player on my board,
just ahead of Aiden Hutchinson. Kyle Hamilton has been an
unbelievable difference maker over there.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
He has been an unbelievable difference maker.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Making the move to free safety has been everything for them,
you know, in terms of just giving him a stability
and what it shows you lance. Like a lot of
times when we get into the comment and we start
working about we start talking about speed and length and
all of these things that are measurable and you have
to have those. Sometimes it takes away from what we
(25:10):
fall in love with on tape. And Kylar Hamilton was
a top five player on tape and we got caught
up in the workouts and those things, and he was
a top five player on tape at free safety, and
when they moved him back to his natural position, he's
been nothing short sensational and it's one of the reasons
why this.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Defense has played better down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
He's given them that impact player in the middle of
the field and it's worked out for them.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And it's just a lesson.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
When we talk about like the draft and the tape
and all that I'll say this and we can't technically
do it, but we should do it. Put your pencils
down before you get to the combine because everything that
happens from combine through the workouts only influence you. It
takes away from what you really believed when you watch
the tape. So if you're one of these guys that
(25:59):
loves to do the work and all that, get all
the work done before the combine, because after the combine,
the numbers can influence you to believe one way or
the other. Did the player is not as good as
you think or is even better than you thought based
on watching the tape.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Watching the tape first, don't let the numbers way.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, that's a great point because the numbers the workouts have,
you know, they have created doubt with people. It happened
to uh despite the fact that he looked like a
Greek god and ran really, really fast, there were people
who convinced himself the DK Metcalf's three condrill was the
end of the world.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Look got bad.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
This guy's three condrell is he will never be a
good wide receiver.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And then the list of wide receivers who got drafted
ahead of.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Him was criminal uh, in some elements, you know, in
some regards, so yeah, you gotta you gotta, you can't be.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And that's the other thing, scouting with your ears. That's
a big problem too. When you have a belief and
you start getting different input than what you're thinking, you
have a tendency to.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Kind of challenge your own thoughts and it's sending it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Funny, Bucky, how often we go back a year or
two later and said, I knew I was right on
this guy.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I knew I was right.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It is.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
It is funny how they goes like you know you're right,
you don't trust it. You talk to so many different people,
you can't get swayed by the group I think. You know,
it takes you off of the players that you truly
to believe in. But man, sometimes you have to write
these little things down on note cards and put them
away and tuck them away before the combine and then
go back to them the week or two leading to
(27:36):
the draft. The guys that you love, the list of
players that you really love, because ultimately the ones that
you fell in love with on tape are gonna be
the ones that you uh fall in love with again.
When we started seeing them at the NFL love mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
It's interesting because Chris Jones was that guy for me.
I watched him against.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
LSU and I saw him do things against LSU that
I thought this humans shouldn't be able to do that,
But he didn't have you know, there wasn't a lot
of There wasn't a lot of And plus I love
the traits, but he's a little upright.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
When he played, his pad level was a little high.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
When guys do things that are freaky against good opponents,
it's real. I mean it's real when Darius Leonard aka
Shack Leonard, when he fills up every statistical category known
to man, but then he gets heard, doesn't run a
forty or whatever and falls in the draft and him
becomes an All Pro his rookie year. Now granted, you know,
(28:32):
I mean he's he's I think he's out of the
league completely right now, as as in Devon White too,
so his linebackers don't last as long.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
But man, when they burn, they burn bright, they.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Burn really right, especially if they played and ro Colan
Smith was that guy in college.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Can't believe Ryan Bowls in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Let him go, like you know, he's He's one of
those alphas that you want in the middle of that defense.
And look at what he's done for the Ravens. It's
almost criminal. How the Ravens pickoff player like that, It's unbelievable.
Kyle Hamilton, ro Kwan Smith in years past, Halloding Nada,
they get their hands on Lamar Jackson by trading to
but they don't look into it.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
They're just good. They're good at what they.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
They're good at what they do because they stick to
the conviction that is created by what they see on tape.
When you look at the Ravens over time, they have
been one of the teams that have always said we
stay tried and true to the tape. They don't get
swayed by workouts and those things, and it's one of
the things that has helped him consistently pick good players.
And they have been able to pick good players at
(29:34):
every level of the first or whatever round.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
If you just go back and look at their history,
they're able to do it.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And to me, Lance, when you look at them, just
remember the conversation that the center from Iowood Lindstrom, you know,
and everyone talks about all his arms are short or whatever.
But when you watch three years of tape, he's just
dominating people at the point of attack. They go and
get good football players, and good football players tend to
be really good football players when they get to the pros.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Yeah, Tyler Linderbaum, Yes, yeah, yeah, he's he was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
His arms are a little short. He runs like a
four six forty. What are you talking about? This man
can get to any angle on the planet. He gets
you hooked.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
He's tough.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
He was a.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Wrestler, like, you're right, And that's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Sometimes you got to make sure that you don't fall
in love with the body types like it's important. But
I'm just looking through this list like it's really important
looking through the list.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
But brock Bauers didn't have that. He wasn't a money type.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Now, Lindstrom was just okay, not not a special you know,
physical specimen. Trey Hendrickson is kind of squaring off, doesn't
look you know, he doesn't have the Miles Garrett now.
But a lot of these guys, really it is. It
is amazing though, when you look at this trades matter.
(30:53):
I'm looking at the list right now, I'm.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Like, whoa.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I mean, Jamar Saquan Chris Jones, Jalen Carter, Miles, Garrett
Dexter Lawrence.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
I mean, hey, trades matter, Kyle Hamilton.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
It certainly, it certainly matters. And when you have the
traits and the tape, that's when you go. It's when
you mess it up one way to where you go
too far to the traits and the tape doesn't match,
or you go too far on the film and the
traits are not there. You have to have some requirements
and some minimums, but you are seeing that it plays out.
So that was the nfl PA All Pro Lists, some
commentary on those guys.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Then we had the Tears.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I'm already getting blown up because I tweeted out some
of the Tears stuff and.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
People are mad at me.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
They mad about the Jade and Daniels thing. They're mad
about the Jay danisty that's my pick, Jaye Daniels. They're
mad about it.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
These don't tell me you added me.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Please, don't put you on that won't match you, because
they would get mad at you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Because I've got.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
To get this. One would be on you about the c. J.
Stroud thing.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
But now we spared you, We saved you. Thanks Station
Jumping in but DJ this was moved the sticks. We
will talking to you guys next week after all the
playoffs
And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to move sticks.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am Bucky Brooks with my man lance Z joining
me feeling and for Daniel, Jeremiah and Elz, today is
a fun day because we got the playoffs ahead. But
rather than do a traditional playoff preview that everybody in
their mom is going to do, we want to preview
the playoffs by using the quarterbacks kind of as the
lynchpin to who we believe is going to have an
(00:29):
opportunity to go far in the tournament. So what I
want to do is we're going to talk about the
fourteen quarterbacks that are in the playoffs. We're going to
rank them in tiers. So we have four tiers. We
have Tier one being the elites, Tier two being Jeff
shat greatness these quarterbacks and knocking on the door of
being elite. Tier three they're hot right now, but can
(00:51):
they handle the playoff pressure? And Tier four unpredictable with
some question marks. And so Lance I'm gonna let's throw
out a quarterbacks. Let's talk about like in the AFC,
we got Pat Mahomes, we have Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson,
c Shrowd, Justin Herbert Russell, Wilson, and bow Nicks. In
(01:13):
the NFC, we got Jerry Goff, Dalon Hurts, Baker Mayfield,
Matthew Stafford, Sam Donald, Jaden Daniels, and Jordan Love and
so overall, what are your thoughts on the quarterbacks that
are in the postseason tournament? Do you have a strong
field or opinion all the guys they meet?
Speaker 2 (01:33):
I know that.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
If we're gonna turn this out, you know, the elite
quarterbacks to me, there are three and they're all in
the AFC, and they're all one, two three. I know
this hasn't been Pat mahomes best year, but out of respect,
there's really nothing else that you can do but expect
Pat Mahomes to show up at big moment. So I
would say, you know, Mahomes, Seash Allen, and Lamar Jackson
(01:58):
are in that tier one group.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
Is there anyone that you would add or.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Some dreamy and saucy.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
So when we talk about the elites, the guys that
are there, I agree with you in those three have
my homes. Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson certainly is there. If
there is someone that I would say is kind of
on the line, This is tough because I go back
and forth between like Justin Herbert and Jerry Goff. And
(02:27):
the reason why I say Justin Herbert being the guy
that I kind of put on that line is take
the numbers.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Away from this year.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
We've seen in previous years that Justin Herbert has played
at that level. We've seen this year when they've had
to rely on him to make plays, he's done it.
I will put him in that Tier one category and
I'll fight anybody else who says he shouldn't be in there.
I just feel like talent wise, he has all of
that and this is going to be a showcase opportunity
(02:54):
for him to join in that conversation as being one
of the elites at the position.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
One means that you can put the team on your back, though, right, yeah,
go full great Jennings and put the whole team on you.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
You got that ability.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You're good with him, Okay, because I know the other
three can do it.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
The other three we've seen we've seen do it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Okay, Well, look, okay, so you know what, I'll drop
Herbert down to tier two. But if we're talking about
the criteria for being elite is putting the team on
the back.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
And then that means Jayde Daniels come on into the
to the room.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Because if that's the criterion, we Jayde Daniels has to
come because we saw Jaydon Daniels put the Commanders on
his back. He's looking he's Deck of the year. He
was in the conversation for most of the season about
being MVP until he hurt his ribs, and then at
Lance when he got back healthy and they needed him,
(03:53):
he's done that. I mean when I look at this
commander's team for the elite players, I mean when you
talking about Terry McLaurin, he doesn't have to really run
into blackfield. The offensive line is an elite I mean, look,
this dude is is kind of pulling rapids out of hats.
So if anyone deserves to go in there, I would
(04:14):
say that there are four guys those three that you
mentioned in the AFC that.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Mahomes, Josh and Lauren Jackson and then j Dands. Yeah,
Jay and Danis has to be in there.
Speaker 4 (04:24):
I remind you my quarterback C. J. Stroud, he's in
Tier four right now. Yeah, and that man was up
having the same time.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
We were having the same conversations about CJ last year
headed end of this year, and now CJ's in the unpredictable.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
With question marks. I mean, and I'm getting real, that's
what that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I mean, that's where he is.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So I've seen the tier ones are the guys that
we talked about having super hero powers, Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen,
Lamar Jackson, and then my bonus fake is gonna be
Jane Daniels. He gets into it. So now let's now
let's go tier two. Because I talked about just Herbert,
but I'm gonna put justin Herbert in tier two.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Who deserves to be in that tier category.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
I'm gonna go, I would say Herbert Golf. I mean,
I take tier two very serious. So I'm gonna say
Herbert off. I think you have to go Stafford out
of respect for the game.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
And the game that.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
He can play like he can have those big games.
And then I got to decide if I'm going to
put hurts are Love there, and I'm gonna say, I'm
gonna say, you know what, No, I'm not putting anyone
else there.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
I'm done.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Okay, So so we have Herbert, we have Golf, and
we have Stafford.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Those are the three. Those are the three that we
have in Tier two.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
So Tier two.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Is defined as it has been defined Tier two. Just
these quarterbacks are knocking on the door of elite status. Now,
obviously you can't really say that about Matt Stafford because
he's an older quarterback, But in terms of can he
rise to the occasion to have an elite game, because
(06:13):
that's what we're talking about in the you know when
once you get in the playoffs, I think he could
still put together a big game. Yes, I think Herbert
for sure is there. You have to put Jared Goff there.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Some people would argue with me about Stafford versus Love
or Stafford versus Hearts, and I think it's a legitimate argument.
Speaker 4 (06:35):
I think it's a legitimate argument.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Now, look, I think we're good.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
So like I think Herbert, Golf and Stafford, I would
say yes to all of them.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And in fact, I know.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
We could talk about Mayfield playing Gray, Sam Donald playing great,
but then we're talking about being elite. Yeah, I think
I'm gonna go with it. I think it's I think
it's really tight. I think I think that's it. I
think we it's debatable about the others. But if we're
that means you ain't in the category because it should
be clearly obvious. So all right, So we have four
(07:07):
guys and Tier one home Mahomes Allan, Jackson Daniels. Tier two,
we have Herbert Golf and Stafford Tier three, which is
I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
Hey, I'm gonna switch it up.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
I'm gonna switch it up.
Speaker 1 (07:23):
Let's do Tier four first and then everyone else left
is tier three? Okay, because I want to see I
want to put you to the test and see who
you believe is.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
The definition is unpredictable with.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Question marks like where do you put where do you
put CJ. Stroud, Where do you put Russell Wilson, Where
do you put Sam I'm thinking Sam Donald's going to
be Tier three obviously the only he played.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
Who do you think is tier four? Those guys that
you think.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Now you're gonna unpredicted that you're gonna have them mad
at me. Now I'm gonna get shouted out after the game.
They're gonna be they be talking to the sideline reporter.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
That's a game.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
But Brooks, looky, I saw you handle that guy from
U c l A. Back in the day after he
stared at you. I'm not worried about you. I'm not
worried about you. I've seen you deal with those guys.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
Okay, let's see, all right, So we're talking about the unable. Look,
so Russell Wilson has to be there, based on how
they're playing right now.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
C J.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Stroud has to be in that conversation. Unpredictable with question
marks I'm putting.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I'm putting Nixon there, man, I don't know what.
Speaker 6 (08:40):
He put it down against the Kansas City Chiefs. I'm
putting Nickson all the Kansas City Chiefs, they put it down.
They barely even suited up for that game. All right,
it gets there.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
We had to get the Bengals up out of there,
all right. So we got two dates. Okay, so we
c J.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Straw, Russell Wilson, bow Knicks.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I'm gonna say, bo Nicks, I don't know about you.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Bucky, but i'm gonna say I haven't seen them playing
this kind of rookies in these big games.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
It's rough, it's rough. And where does he go?
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Mm hmm?
Speaker 4 (09:16):
All right, old weather Buffalo?
Speaker 2 (09:17):
All right, So we got bow Knicks in force. And
now what we're saying is the guy.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
We don't.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I mean, I'm to make it out I'm coming with you. Hey, hey, hey,
no no argument, no argument for me. But I'm just
I'm just saying, I just want to make sure because
I'm putting this out there for the universe, and I
want to make sure you feel okay about when they
when they start, they start me and Muggy you and
they start talking about and Zarren wrote this.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
But I didn't right back and all that. I just
want to make sure you're okay, okay being the coming
after you.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
I've already I've already got that Matt Jorden.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
I'm his enemy for life because he thought I had
a bad scatter report on him. Supposedly Juju Smith huesh
Or retweeted him running for a long touchdown. I circled
my scatter import and said he didn't have long speed,
which he doesn't and didn't.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
I was right.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
And then I've got dk Metcalf, who I gave the
highest grade of anybody like in the whole draft to sphere.
He's got my weaknesses cut out and put in his locker.
I'm used to Bucky, Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:20):
I'm not you'd be getting to smoke from folks talking
fucking bad about it.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
You're getting.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Hey, once you put out one mock draft on NFL
dot com and the NFL retweets it, you will never.
Speaker 4 (10:34):
Have most more smoke in your entire life. You know
that you're right. I feel comfortable putting I.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Feel comfortable putting Sam Darnold and and and uh Baker
Mayfield in the third category, the hot players. I feel
comfortable with them being I think they're a perfect fit
from tier three.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
I'm curious though, on like.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Love, once we get to love Hurts, who else whom
I'm missing here loving Hurts?
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I guess Love and Hurts?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (11:10):
Are they tier three? We bump them in a tier two?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
I can't put them in. I can't put them into two.
I can't put them knocking on the door to delete.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
So I don't either. If that's the definition, I can't do.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I can't. I can't say they knocking on the door.
M hmm.
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Man, I look, I think I think that's where we
act though. I think we have to put Hurts Love
in that category, like they've been high. But then we
got to see how they're gonna handle the playoff freshure, right,
I mean unless you unless you're trying to drop them
down to unpredictable with some question marks.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean, I don't really have some you can't. I
guess you could try to make that argument if you want.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Some people might argue that for Jalen Hurts because you
know some issues in the playoffs at the time.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
I wouldn't do that right now.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
So you've heard Love overhears or hears, so.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
I would personally put well, I think Love can control
the game potentially with passing, but I think of the
two teams, I feel better with how Hurts doesn't have
to do as much.
Speaker 4 (12:18):
So it's that I think.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Because you don't just like Justin Herbert doesn't have to
do as much as he used to, which has made
him a better quarterback.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Josh Allen, the running game has.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Improved this year, so in a weird way, it's taken
a lot of pressure off of him.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
He still performs at a high level.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
He does the same things he's always done, but he
didn't feel that same pressure.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I think Jordan Love feels a tremendous well.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I don't know if he feels the pressure, but it's there,
like he's got to do a lot for them to win,
and I don't think you know the team that he's playing.
I don't think Hurts has to do as much to win.
So I think Hurts can kind of free stroke it
out there. I think he can play loose and free,
and I think with Love, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna
put him both than three though, but I would put
Hurts above Love just for this playoff run.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Okay, So we got Bakery. We got Baker Mayfield in there, right,
we feel good about.
Speaker 4 (13:09):
We got Baker's gonna be Bakers. Who would you put ahead? Okay?
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So if we're ranking them, so we're ranking the top four,
how are you ranking those.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Four quarterbacks the top four?
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And there in group three, we got Hurts, we got Love,
we got Baker, we got Sam Darnald.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
How you how you sack.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Man?
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Baker's is right on the line because I think Baker
is Baker's smoking right now, like he's bumping up against
the tier two situation. So I would go Baker first,
then Sam Murs, I think.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Then I would say Love and then Hurts.
Speaker 4 (13:49):
Baker really is playing well that that Lion's game shaped
a little bit with Sam.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Donald, He's blowing leaves.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Me in fact, man, when you really look at the
season that Baker had, Man, you can talk about you
can talk about Baker being right up in Tier two
almost man like. He's I mean, the way he's played, he's,
you know what, Baker like. I think I'm gonna move
Baker up to Tier two. I think I'm gonna move Baker.
Baker had forty five yard I think I think I think.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
We were done with Baker. The league was the league
was done with Baker.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
He was just they somehow scraped him off the sidewalk
to play for the Rams and he pulled pulled that
Rams went out of his out of his hat.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Two years ago.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
I remember that body.
Speaker 4 (14:38):
I mean, it was like for Baker, good for Baker.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
You know what?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And that is the lesson to be learned when we
talk about the quarterbacks and those things. Hey man, that
thing is not easy, and sometimes you got to give
guys opportunities to find their way to other situations. And
Baker found a home and it's really worked out for him.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
Let's let's look at that eighteen draft again.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Now, two years ago, we would have said, Josh Lamar
and a bunch of trash. What you're saying, is Josh
and Lamar guys. Baker Mayfield, what a resurgence, what a
what a good quarterback he is. And look at Sam Darnold.
He just needed to have right play caller, the right
pieces around him.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
And now you're just.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Left with Joshua what's his name, Josh Josh Rosen. I mean,
Josh Rosen's out. But those other four guys now, all
of a sudden, the twenty eighteen quarterback draft. So it
looks a lot different, doesn't.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
It looks a lot different, And it tells you about
a couple of things.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
He tells you about the patience that you need to
have for quarterback, but it also how important the environment,
the situation is. Right environment, right situation, right play called,
all these guys can have success.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
But I do think that Alan, I think Josh Allen
and Lamar, I think they transcend. I think they transcend
where they are, like, I think they could be these
guys wherever you put them. Eventually, as long as you
put decent pieces around them, I think those guys are
going to be special. There's very that to me, those
are the guys that should get paid the biggest money.
(16:09):
Like right now, the NFL has a mode where they
next up. I guess you're just next up to get
fifty million.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Want to operate that way. Baseball is like, no, if
you're not that good, you don't get paid like that.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Realistically, the guys at that stat at that level that
can succeed through adversity, can succeed no matter where they are,
that are special. I mean, I know we got three
of them for sure that are all playing in the AFC.
They're in the AFC playoffs. I think maybe you put both.
You maybe have to put Joe Burrow there, as long
as he's healthy. Joe Burrow looks like he's got that special.
(16:46):
We're waiting to see it on Jayden Daniels. You made
a case for him. I got to see it happen
for for two to three years because I'm worried after
what happened with CJ.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Stroud this year. But it just goes to show you that, man,
you can want those.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
You can want the next Josh Allen.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
And everyone loves to throw Josh a dray may he
can next Josh Allen. You could also be chasing a unicorn.
So there's not a lot of those.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Not a lot of Josh Allen's running aund There's not
a lot of Lamar Jackson's. There's definitely not a lot
of Pat Mahomes running around. And so we got Jayden
to Lamar, we got I guess Drake may maybe to
Josh Allen would be the comparison. And then we had
the Caleb Williams and Patrick Mahomes. Those are rough comparisons, man,
(17:33):
that's a that's a high, high bar.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
You gotta and so if you're gonna set that bar,
you better help them coaching, help them with offensive line,
and help them with being patient.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
And that's the lesson of that eighteen draft.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
But no one's given Baker Mayfield five six years, like
no one's given Sam that must say. It's just if
you're in a bad situation and you can't do it,
gotta go, gotta go.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
That's the way it is. Is It is such an
interesting thing. That's fascinating. I can't wait to kind of
see how it plays out. Interesting conversation. So Lance, we'll
come back after the break. Let's talk about the NFLPA
All Pro lists, all right, Lance, So the nfl PA
just release their all pro teams for the twenty twenty
(18:21):
four season.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
On offense, we'll go through it.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Lamar Jackson, you have Brock Bowers, Jamar Chase, Justin Jefferson,
Takwon Barkley, Cal's you check, Tristan Wirfs, Joe Touney, Benna Sewell,
Chris Linstrom, and Create Humphrey. On defense, the first team
features Christ Jones, Jalen Carter, Trey Hendrickson, Miles Garrett, Dexter,
Lawrence Roklan Smith, Fred Warner.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
Any Cayle Hamilton, and Pat Sortan Any.
Speaker 4 (18:50):
You can't score on you cannot score on that. You
don't think we score well, we're not scoring on that.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
D So let's let's let's talk about Let's talk about
the offense first. So Lamar Jackson gets.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, this offense is pretty strong.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
I mean you were talking about that he scored. I'm like,
what you mean, I can't.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
I need I need to see that game. I mean
I need to see I want that. I want that game.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
I mean looked at the fascinating things.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
So the first thing that stands out to me, Lance,
how about rock bout you know, doing the draft process.
I know we always talk about like best player available,
and for a lot of us, brought powers was one
of the two three best players in the draft, and
he drops goes out up ten. But then he comes
and he plays. He is everything that we talked about.
(19:35):
What do you think about his season in Las Vegas?
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Incredible?
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's not like like you knew Brock was going to
get the ball and it didn't matter. He went in there,
and then we have to have those conversations about where
your draft tight ends and the value of tight end
is not good in the first round, and you know,
and then he comes out and has over one hundred catches,
over a thousand yards receiving, He breaks all these rookie records.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
He arguably is the offensive Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
He won't win it, but I mean, if you want
to just go by numbers, rock Bowers is your winner,
it's gonna be Jayden, and I think Jayden deserves to
win it this year. But you can make a case
for Brock and have no problem. Brock is an all Pro.
Brock is an all role and he's not gonna win
(20:29):
Offensive Rookie of the Year.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Let that sink. My man is the one in the league.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
He is, and win in the league.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
And you're right, And I made a case a couple
of weeks ago on my notebook on NFL dot com.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Dad, Look, he should be certainly a contingent, he should
do it.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
But the end that Jayden Daniels reappeared, and Jayden Daniels
just does the thing. I mean, he put the thing.
He put the whammy on the Eagles to clinch your
playoff berth. And then he comes back to knock up
to the Cowboys. He continues to do his thing and
went healthy. This dude is dynamic.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
And look, man, we can.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Talk about Lamar Jackson all the wonderful things that Lamar
Jackson was able to do, but the rookie Jaye Daniels
was more polished as a passer and playmaker than Lamar
Jackson was at this stage. And I love what ja
Lamar Jackson was able to do in terms of his
dynamic playmaking ability. How he may be a three time
MVP if they look at the numbers as opposed to
the story that has been the field good story that
(21:22):
Josh Allen has been, It's going to be interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Saikamon Barkley, Look.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
I think it is fascinated that he is up there
two thousand yard season. They sat him out the last game,
he potentially could have broke the record, but to Eric
Dickerson's delight, they sat him out and so Ed is
able to hold on to the record. But look, it's
just fascinating. And we talked about the lineman. I mean,
Tristan Wurston missed some games, but he's up there, benne Sewel,
(21:48):
Chris Linstrom, Greet Humphrey, all of those guys are in
the mix.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Defensively, though, we talked about that man, Jalen.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Carter and what he's been able to do for the
Philadelphia Eagles, the fact that he is an All Pro.
When we throw grays on players and we talked about
those top five, top teen grades. We're throwing those grades
forecasting that those guys are going to be All pros
early in their career. Jalen Carter has been all that
in a bag of.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Chips right away.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, he has Trey Hendrickson, you know, Miles Garretts, Miles
Garrett's he's one on one. I mean, he's you know,
he'll go down as one of the great pass rushers
of all time. But Trey Hendrickson has was unbelievable and
you know, you and I will be doing draft stuff
down the road, but it just goes to show you.
I mean I remember watching Trey Hendrickson at the East
West Shrine game and like, man, that dude's got a
(22:40):
nice spin move. Hey, he just kind of knows his
way around the pocket. He's got feel as a rusher.
They come from anywhere, They come from everywhere. Chris Jones
was the late first, Jayleen Carter was a dude, Miles
Garrett was a dude. Extra Lawrence was a dude. Trey
Hendrickson was like a fourth rounder. So they can come
from anywhere. Max Crosby, who did not make the list,
(23:01):
I mean, he's kind of like Trey Hendrickson. You know,
those dudes are built a little different. They just their
mentality is different. They're talented and they just play with
like just a tenaciousness as rushers that you know you
match it with the skill and uh and you can
go find guys. But it is it's interesting. I look
at both the offensive defense like it's a mixture of
dudes coming out and then guys like there was no
(23:25):
doubt on Saquan Lamar, Well, Lamar had questions, but Saquan Jamar,
Chase rock Bauers Tristan Wurf like Piney Sewel.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
But then you run into Chris lin Linstrom who was
the second round guard, and you run into Joe Toney,
and then you know the Trey Hendrickson. So you know
Fred Warner. I remember watching Fred Warner.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Like, man, this guy, I'm gonna put him in a
fourth I bet he could be a good backup and maybe.
Speaker 4 (23:48):
An eventual starter. I really like him.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
And then you know he has he has a good
backup to eventual starter.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
I thought he had a chance to become an eventual
an eventual starter. Instead he's the most dynamic linebacker in
the game today. And then you know, I think it's
another interesting point is it's Patzertan who me was the
cleanest corner that I've written in ten years since I've
been doing this here at NFL dot com. Then you
(24:17):
have Derek Stingley, who the Singly Sauce thing was getting
Houston was ready to run Nick Caserio out of town
because you have sauce.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Look how good sauce is. Now fast forward.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
You know, three years, and Derek Stingley right now is
the better player of those two guys, and he's playing
at a ridiculous level. And of course Kyle Hamilton, who
I had as the number one player on my board,
just ahead of Aiden Hutchinson. Kyle Hamilton has been an
unbelievable difference maker over there.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
He has been an unbelievable difference maker.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Making the move to free safety has been everything for them,
you know, in terms of just giving him a stability
and what it shows you lance. Like a lot of
times when we get into the comment and we start
working about we start talking about speed and length and
all of these things that are measurable and you have
to have those. Sometimes it takes away from what we
(25:10):
fall in love with on tape. And Kylar Hamilton was
a top five player on tape and we got caught
up in the workouts and those things, and he was
a top five player on tape at free safety, and
when they moved him back to his natural position, he's
been nothing short sensational and it's one of the reasons
why this.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Defense has played better down the stretch.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
He's given them that impact player in the middle of
the field and it's worked out for them.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
And it's just a lesson.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
When we talk about like the draft and the tape
and all that I'll say this and we can't technically
do it, but we should do it. Put your pencils
down before you get to the combine because everything that
happens from combine through the workouts only influence you. It
takes away from what you really believed when you watch
the tape. So if you're one of these guys that
(25:59):
loves to do the work and all that, get all
the work done before the combine, because after the combine,
the numbers can influence you to believe one way or
the other. Did the player is not as good as
you think or is even better than you thought based
on watching the tape.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Watching the tape first, don't let the numbers way.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, that's a great point because the numbers the workouts have,
you know, they have created doubt with people. It happened
to uh despite the fact that he looked like a
Greek god and ran really, really fast, there were people
who convinced himself the DK Metcalf's three condrill was the
end of the world.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Look got bad.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
This guy's three condrell is he will never be a
good wide receiver.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And then the list of wide receivers who got drafted
ahead of.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
Him was criminal uh, in some elements, you know, in
some regards, so yeah, you gotta you gotta, you can't be.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And that's the other thing, scouting with your ears. That's
a big problem too. When you have a belief and
you start getting different input than what you're thinking, you
have a tendency to.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Kind of challenge your own thoughts and it's sending it.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Funny, Bucky, how often we go back a year or
two later and said, I knew I was right on
this guy.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
I knew I was right.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
It is.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
It is funny how they goes like you know you're right,
you don't trust it. You talk to so many different people,
you can't get swayed by the group I think. You know,
it takes you off of the players that you truly
to believe in. But man, sometimes you have to write
these little things down on note cards and put them
away and tuck them away before the combine and then
go back to them the week or two leading to
(27:36):
the draft. The guys that you love, the list of
players that you really love, because ultimately the ones that
you fell in love with on tape are gonna be
the ones that you uh fall in love with again.
When we started seeing them at the NFL love mm hmm.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
It's interesting because Chris Jones was that guy for me.
I watched him against.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
LSU and I saw him do things against LSU that
I thought this humans shouldn't be able to do that,
But he didn't have you know, there wasn't a lot
of There wasn't a lot of And plus I love
the traits, but he's a little upright.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
When he played, his pad level was a little high.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
When guys do things that are freaky against good opponents,
it's real. I mean it's real when Darius Leonard aka
Shack Leonard, when he fills up every statistical category known
to man, but then he gets heard, doesn't run a
forty or whatever and falls in the draft and him
becomes an All Pro his rookie year. Now granted, you know,
(28:32):
I mean he's he's I think he's out of the
league completely right now, as as in Devon White too,
so his linebackers don't last as long.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
But man, when they burn, they burn bright, they.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Burn really right, especially if they played and ro Colan
Smith was that guy in college.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Can't believe Ryan Bowls in Chicago.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Let him go, like you know, he's He's one of
those alphas that you want in the middle of that defense.
And look at what he's done for the Ravens. It's
almost criminal. How the Ravens pickoff player like that, It's unbelievable.
Kyle Hamilton, ro Kwan Smith in years past, Halloding Nada,
they get their hands on Lamar Jackson by trading to
but they don't look into it.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
They're just good. They're good at what they.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
They're good at what they do because they stick to
the conviction that is created by what they see on tape.
When you look at the Ravens over time, they have
been one of the teams that have always said we
stay tried and true to the tape. They don't get
swayed by workouts and those things, and it's one of
the things that has helped him consistently pick good players.
And they have been able to pick good players at
(29:34):
every level of the first or whatever round.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
If you just go back and look at their history,
they're able to do it.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
And to me, Lance, when you look at them, just
remember the conversation that the center from Iowood Lindstrom, you know,
and everyone talks about all his arms are short or whatever.
But when you watch three years of tape, he's just
dominating people at the point of attack. They go and
get good football players, and good football players tend to
be really good football players when they get to the pros.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
Yeah, Tyler Linderbaum, Yes, yeah, yeah, he's he was. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
His arms are a little short. He runs like a
four six forty. What are you talking about? This man
can get to any angle on the planet. He gets
you hooked.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
He's tough.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
He was a.
Speaker 4 (30:16):
Wrestler, like, you're right, And that's the other thing.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Sometimes you got to make sure that you don't fall
in love with the body types like it's important. But
I'm just looking through this list like it's really important
looking through the list.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
But brock Bauers didn't have that. He wasn't a money type.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Now, Lindstrom was just okay, not not a special you know,
physical specimen. Trey Hendrickson is kind of squaring off, doesn't
look you know, he doesn't have the Miles Garrett now.
But a lot of these guys, really it is. It
is amazing though, when you look at this trades matter.
(30:53):
I'm looking at the list right now, I'm.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Like, whoa.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I mean, Jamar Saquan Chris Jones, Jalen Carter, Miles, Garrett
Dexter Lawrence.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
I mean, hey, trades matter, Kyle Hamilton.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
It certainly, it certainly matters. And when you have the
traits and the tape, that's when you go. It's when
you mess it up one way to where you go
too far to the traits and the tape doesn't match,
or you go too far on the film and the
traits are not there. You have to have some requirements
and some minimums, but you are seeing that it plays out.
So that was the nfl PA All Pro Lists, some
commentary on those guys.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Then we had the Tears.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I'm already getting blown up because I tweeted out some
of the Tears stuff and.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
People are mad at me.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Boy.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
They mad about the Jade and Daniels thing. They're mad
about the Jay danisty that's my pick, Jaye Daniels. They're
mad about it.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
These don't tell me you added me.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
Please, don't put you on that won't match you, because
they would get mad at you.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Because I've got.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
To get this. One would be on you about the c. J.
Stroud thing.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
But now we spared you, We saved you. Thanks Station
Jumping in but DJ this was moved the sticks. We
will talking to you guys next week after all the
playoffs
Hosts And Creators
Daniel Jeremiah
Bucky Brooks
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