March 4, 2020 • 54 mins
Dave Dameshek is joined in Studio 66 by former Cleveland Browns legend Willie McGinest! Shek and Willie do a deep dive into each scenario for where Tom Brady could play in 2020, including a potential trade to his hometown San Francisco 49ers (3:20)! Willie also talks about Clemson defensive star Isaiah Simmons and what position he should play in the NFL (30:50). Shek and Spaghetti round out the show by giving their prediction as to where Tom Brady will play (40:51).
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It'll bring up a second down and ten for the
Rams at the Patriot thirty nine yard line. Second down
in ten St. Louis ball in the near hash trying
to go left to right. Four forty five in the clock,
running patch lead seventeen to ten. Fireside left is Bruce,
near side right is Hope. Robinson is in the left
slot in motion. Right to left goes Conwell. Falk alone
(00:23):
running back, warner back to throw, stands in the pocket.
Now being rushed. Now he gets away back to midfield.
How he's still being chased. These head pack back at
the forty five yard line for the Patriots were relentless
on that one four man ross and they were able
to put that kind of pressure on him. Big, big,
big play. Willie McGinnis made the tackle back at the St.
(00:43):
Louis forty five yard line, third sack of the game.
Foot The Deep damnag Ship Football program available on Apple
Podcasts and at NFL dot com slash g DF. Now
here's your host, d Yeah, there he is number fifty five,
(01:08):
a legend for the Cleveland Browns, also toiled for the
New England Patriots. And you know I've said it about
James Jones. Before um. But William McGinnis might be the
o G in this regard for smelling good all the time.
And in fact, he told me once a number of
years ago, you know, it's a nice thing to do
for your colleagues, for your co workers, is to always
(01:30):
keep yourself, give yourself a little spritz a cologne and nice,
because yeah, it makes a nice impression. And now he
ceded to my immediate left, and uh, as you would suspect,
he smells just divine. It is the aforementioned Willie McGinnis.
What's happening, fella, I'm just chilling man, the awful little
combine run. Yeah, being able to evaluate the young new
(01:52):
talent coming into the league and being able to rub
elbows with the coaches and jams and just talk football,
it's probably it's probably be like that week is one
of the best weeks in football. It is in the
sense that what was striking to me was the season
that right after the Super Bowl um in Indie where
the Giants beat the Patriots. Two weeks later, you're right
(02:15):
back out in Indie and you're and you realize, oh,
the super Bowl, that's amateur hours. This is where this
this is where the pros are gathered. This is where
there's not a yeah, there's no riff raff. I remember
sitting at a at a in a bar next to
Bill Belichick and um Mike Lombardi and Belichick's son before
he was a coach, and they were just sitting there,
(02:36):
just just having a beer, and it was like, Wow,
there's Bill Belichick acting like a like like a guy
would yeah, having a beer. Um any who, Hi and
hello and welcomed to the Dave damn check football program.
Let's get into it here, little Willie post combine, pre
free agency and draft. There's a lot that kid, it's
about and wouldn't you know it, the face of the
twenty one century NFL. Tom Brady is in the newt
(03:00):
I just basically the way the millennium started here. And
you know I've said a lot Willie that I keep
tweeting it out. I don't know if you ever noticed
that I keep tweeting out the last time, uh we kid,
it's about Brady because I think it is. It remains
for all the speculation that's happened. It was exactly three
months ago today at the time of this recording, that
(03:20):
you gave your insights and you shot down my idea, Oh,
Brady should go to the Charges. It makes all the sense,
and you shot it down and then made a case
for what why Brady goes back to the Patriots. Yeah,
well you you laid out an interesting scenario and his
son being on the East Coast and not liking the
(03:41):
West coast. That and also from a football from a
roster building standpoint, you said that it makes sense for
Brady to try and see, not seize control, but to say,
let me have some say in what this offense needs
and and what pieces specifically we need in New England.
(04:02):
In New England, well, I think that happened. Just just remember,
let's just backtrack. So before the season we talked about that. Correct. Um,
he had Antonio Brown, right, a guy who played for
the Steelers who you know really well. Um, he had
Josh Gordon, he had Edelman, he had probably one of
the best offenses in the league at the time. Every
(04:27):
forgotten forgotten about Josh Gordon. Okay, and then you had
all your running back so everybody was like, wow, this
is okay, Patriots are going back to the super Bowl
right away. When that happened, Belichick had took over the defense.
So the defense was the number one defense. So now
you've got a balanced team on both sides of the ball. Well,
(04:48):
um did the bocle. Everything happened with a B and
Josh Gordon gets traded or sent away, probably because they
knew what was coming down the pipe. Now you don't
have two of the best players on your offensive side
of the ball. So now this offense is struggling modely.
Receivers can't get on the same page. They're putting to
(05:09):
kill Harry on ir he's gone for nine weeks, eight
weeks now, said disasterinarybody saying Brady doesn't have any weapons, Like,
what's going on here? They didn't give him what he
what he needed. What they did they did well everybody,
Brady was one of those guys they had, they had everything.
And if they could have kept that together and either
(05:30):
one if either one of those guys you had playing
a b scot, just either one. So a lot of
things broke down over the course of the season and
the end result was twelve and four, losing the first
round to the Titans. Well, and by the way, as
I keep reminding, and you know obviously I like a dynasty,
(05:52):
I also like a diet. But the reason I like
a dynasty is because it gives you the yardstick. It
gives you something to shoot for. As I have said
ad nauseum, now um Star Wars would stink without Darth Vader. Well,
the Patriots have emerged as the NFL starth Vader because
of all their winning um And so I wonder now
with uh if people have kind of are trying to
(06:16):
talk it into being that the Patriots, like you said,
they went twelve and four. You know, they don't lose
that game to the Dolphins in Foxboro. I mean, by
the way, I think that that what that sets up
is either the Patriots or Chiefs in um Baltimore for
the a f C title game. Baltimore gotten knocked off
by but they wouldn't have gotten knocked off in that
(06:37):
they would have had to play. They would have played
the Texas and they would have whipped the Texans. Like
that about Tennessee and in Tennessee going into Baltimore. Who
picked Tennessee? Did you? I didn't, but I but I
did say Spaghetti backed me up? Did I at least
say that there's something about Mike Vrabel's way that somehow
(06:58):
he's going to call it. I didn't. I didn't call it.
I just want to know. I want to know. I
want to know. You should be rich. You shouldn't even
be here right now if you call it that one.
You know what I did call was the Niners win
in that division. So that was a good call. Was
nobody else had that one? That was a good call.
I also had the Titans get into the playoffs. If
Ryan Tannehill and that was a close call that went
(07:18):
between one game like that could have flipped the four
Niners could have easily been the six ceed too. Yeah,
but I threw my juju in that direction and see
how it all worked out. Speaking of that, so let's
start there with this Brady stuff. Do you have any
insights on it? Any updates? If you talk to the guy,
I mean that that's my brother. Of course, we talked.
I try to stay away from Hey, where are you going?
I try not to. You know, we talked about family
(07:39):
and other things. I will say there's possibilities, and I
know the charges are one of those possibilities. UM, just
because they offer what you know, what you would want
as a veteran guy. UM saying if you want to
play two or three more years in the NFL. At
the quarterback position, you need, you need, you need things
around you, You need protection. I think they could get
(08:00):
little bit better at that. But weapons are running game, defense,
guys on the personnel, you like, you need those things
because you're not going somewhere to try to build, right,
You're going somewhere to try to win. That makes sense.
The teams that and I'm just speculating now I would
throw into the mixer are the teams I think the
Patriots get the first shot at it, just out of respect,
(08:22):
out of the relationship, you know, with with Tom and
Belichick and ownership the Craft family. I think the first
conversation should start in Foxboro. Okay, let's talk about the
Patriots to begin with, because I do think that that
kind of nullifies everything that would potentially happen after that.
Is it is there somebody out there or there guys
(08:42):
out there that makes sense for that's the quick fix
for the Patriots to make them from by the way again,
twelve and four team almost was thirteen and three, almost
had to buy again. And who knows where the postseason
goes if all that, if all that comes to be
so It's not like they're miles away from being a
super being back in the Super Bowl in eleven months
from now. But to make that happen, what piece or
(09:05):
two does that offense need that Is there a name
specifically that's I mean because I could been saying Hunter Henry,
but it's clear that they're going to tag him now, yeah,
and that makes sense. You would have to match that
or do something to get him over. So I think
the tight end position is extremely important for the short
adymedia passing routes that you know that exists within that
office with Josh McDaniels, I think a receiver, UM, when
(09:27):
you look at it, Emmanuel Sanders is a free agent.
He's a guy who thought about going to New England.
I know that because I talked to him before. UM,
if there was interest, of course Tom Brady, heck yeah,
I will go and play with Tom Brady. UM. Also draft,
this is one of the deepest drafts. After receiver position.
You can go get a receiver, a big body receiver
with speed that runs routes. UM. Now we we we
(09:50):
also know they have the running backs. But I think
those two positions, UM could My guess is obviously you
know better than I um. But it seems to me
like the way the Patriots like to do things with
McDaniels and Brady is it's going it takes some time
to ramp up to that. You don't just walk in
there as I'm a super talented pass catcher air go
(10:12):
I'm gonna thrive with the goat. It takes a while
because it's a lot of choice by the receiver, right
I mean specifically, well, it's it's game plan specific, you know,
and depending it's you know, they throw the state, the
passing game, depending on who they're planning against, changes, I
would say. But over over the last few years, it's
(10:33):
what short the intermediate. So, Okay, you're drafted to kill
Harry last year, he'll he'll be a little further ahead
this year and understanding the concepts, the playbook and all that.
So you got him, you got Edelman healthier, and you
got the backs tied in. Get another receiver, Okay, if
if that's what you're looking for, maybe in free agency,
then you go get a receiver in the second round
(10:55):
or something like that, whatever whatever the case may be.
But I think as far as um um, he deserves
to have those resources around him. I'm surprised legitimately because
when we talked about this a few months ago, it
is weird because you know, you always would hear about
Jordan's having signed off on roster moves with the Bulls,
(11:17):
and they're various examples of that. It's weird that Tom
Brady isn't more intimately involved that we don't know the
conversations day I thought that was the book. Is that
he stays out of that stuff, I'm not sure. I
think I think he's earned the right to agree that
knowing the guys and what kind of guy fits best
with what they're trying to do, I think him Josh Belichick.
You know, I don't know. We know Belichick runs the
(11:39):
show Football Operations and all out. Of course, there's no
question about it. But I think, why wouldn't you go
to a guy like that and be like, hey, what
do you think about this kid? I exactly, Well, a
lot of the reason I thought that Brady was going
to leave was because I assumed Josh McDaniels was going
to take a coaching gig. But now he stays, and
so he's waiting out Belichick. Is that is that fair assumption?
(12:00):
I don't know. I don't think anybody's gonna push Belichick
out a rushroom to retire. I think he's too great
of a coach to even talk about that. I think
when he's ready, he will UM. And Josh is comfortable there,
his family is comfortable there. He got a new deal
a couple of a year ago, I believe, and I
think the dynamic works great, and it has to be
a perfect situation. It's hard to leave New England and
(12:22):
go find the way that is structured and have that
same um, those same resources, that same power, the same
um influence on what you want to do as a
head coach in another place, and you've got to make
sure it's everything's right from top to bottom. So I
think when Josh this next time around, remember he did
it before when he went to Denver, he understands it
(12:44):
a little bit more and understands what you will need
UM to go and do that. And if it's not right,
why why mess up with you have there? Well that
you know, I've come, I've come kind of full circle.
I'm not gonna I mean, Tampa Bay is interesting. In
Tennessee is interesting, and uh um, the Chargers are interesting,
But ultimately you know, David carr Um was in here
(13:05):
a little while ago and we were talking about it,
and he said, practically, Tom Brady is forty three. Obviously
he's a family guy, loves those kids and and um,
it hasn't reason to love his lifestyle. Why would he
want to disrupt that at this age? Because with the Patriots,
the premises maybe I'll show up at O. T A
(13:26):
S for a day or two in the off season,
you go anywhere else. It's gonna be hard to do
that because even if it's Keenan Allen and Mike Williams,
he's gonna have to develop chemistry and it's gonna take
a lot more reps between now and September. Right, He
doesn't that when it comes to football and it's time
to go to work and doing what he needs to do.
His family has everybody's family's sacrifice, you know, you sacrifice
(13:49):
that time with your family and friends and all that
when it's time to go to work. And I think that, um,
knowing it's only for a couple more years, the family
will probably be okay with that. To develop that chemistry,
if that's something you have to do, he does that anyway.
He does that in the off season with the receivers
that are there, that's been with him forever anyway in Montana,
so that's not something he's not used to doing. Wherever
(14:11):
he goes, those receivers are gonna be right where he is,
and they're gonna throw, and they're gonna be on the
same page and they're gonna work. So whether it's in
New England, Tennessee, um l A W wherever, wherever, wherever
else in the universe people want to put Tom Brady,
those receivers will be with him throwing and working in
the off season, no question about that. See, it is
(14:32):
a fun like but this is kind of like fantasy football,
not not since Peyton Manning was a free agent? Is
it fun to play the game of where should this
Hall of Fame QB go? And where might you win
a a Lombardi And as far as that goes, our
mutual pal Maurice Jones Drew said when the Jaguars, When
when it became clear he wasn't going back to the
(14:53):
Jaguars and the twilight of his career, he says that
his first call to his agent was get me on
the coach because I'm want to play that team. Twice.
Obviously he goes to the Raiders instead. Um, then there
was the Peyton Manning thing like I don't want to
go to the NFC because I don't want to have
to go up against Eli. So those are two kinds
of trains of thought. Which is Tom Brady because that
(15:15):
will help to inform as we try to read these
tea leaves. Is Tom Brady the sort of guy who's like,
I want to play Belichick, get me in the the
East doesn't have a good landing spot form, but you
could drop in in the a f C. He you
could drop him in the NFC in the a f
C West. As a matter of fact, you could make
a case for the Raiders. You can make a case
(15:35):
for the Chargers. I don't think the Raiders. The Raiders
don't make sense to him. I don't really get that one.
But what where where people keep coming up with that one?
But the Chargers do make sense? So is he is
Tom Brady wired in in a way that's that's like,
you know what, I don't want to do that to
Belichick and Craft and and and do that. I'll see
(15:57):
him in the Super Bowl if I see him, but
I don't want to have to go against them in
the postseason or is he built like or give them
to me. I want I want to be right there.
I want them seeing me my team in the standings.
I want to see him in the seedings of the
a f C. Into I say Tom Brady as a warrior,
and when it comes to competing, Um, wherever you are
(16:20):
on the other side, you know, of the table or
of the field, of the ball, it really doesn't matter.
And I think that's true for all of us. UM.
I left and went to Cleveland and played New England,
and I heard that I couldn't wait. We didn't win,
but I couldn't wait to go out there and and
and play. I just think, if you're a warrior and
you're competitive, it doesn't really matter what happens. Um. There's
(16:44):
that you know, camaraderie and football and family side, and
then there's that business side too, And you hate to
have to address that business side when it comes up
because there's a lot of personal you know, things that
are attached to that, like you know, the uh, the
reputation you build in a certain city, the fan base,
your brothers you've worked with, the staff you've worked with forever,
(17:07):
whether there's coaches, whether it's ownership, UM, where there's people
in the locker room like your own special equipment guys,
whatever the case may be. And when you have to
leave all that, that's the tough decision to make. That's
the thing is you think about UM. You know, his
families on the East Coast New York area, so his
son Jack is there, So that's really really important. Family
(17:30):
is really really important to time, Like we're family, like
with me and all the guys that we played against
that I mean played with. That was an important part
of us why we were so tight because family was
tight and we didn't see each other as teammates, we
saw each other as families. So I think there's a
lot of important factors when you talk about moving and
(17:52):
leaving and going to the West coast, are going here,
like you have to factor in outside of just xs
and those. When it comes to a guy like t
it's it's interesting and it's a point that is you
really shouldn't ignore because that's one thing I've learned over
the past decade is that it is a business like
any other, and in a business like any other, you
(18:14):
develop relationships and people who you're comfortable with people who
you who you vibed with and all that sort of thing.
So how close exactly was Tom Brady to Mike Vrabel?
They were all close. It was close to your Pali
Yeah likes Mike Vrabel. Mike Vrabel likes him, of course. Yeah,
they're good friends. I mean, that's an interesting idea. I mean,
(18:36):
it could be they got they got a pretty good
offensive line right at really nice young pass catchers. I mean,
you know, running game, don't forget that that's important Number
one running game. You in the lead, you forgot about that?
And how I didn't forget about good defense? No, I
didn't forget about anything. It's a possibility, like everybody speculating,
(18:57):
but it's a possibility. There's a lot of teams that
we're not even talking about that's probably called his agent, Like,
we don't know those are the ones. We can boil
it that those are those are the ones that were
just you know, jumping off the paper and everybody's talking about.
But like I said, um, it's it's it's something that
he's never experienced before, like a lot of us that
(19:18):
played there, And there's a lot of things that run
through your hand. Listen, things like this legitimate. I think
fans love this kind of thing. But I think some
players at least care about the idea of like, I
want to play the whole my whole career in this uniform.
I don't want. I don't want to end it. Like
you know, the images that still pop up before we
(19:38):
were alive of Johnny anditas and and Joe Namath, Well
maybe I was alive for some of those. You were
alive for something. I'm trying to like that. The guys
that you like it's weird. Yeah, even when Peyton left.
At first, everybody's like, it looks weird, and until they
until they start doing really well, and you're like, okay,
(19:59):
you know, but it's we'll see. Like I selfishly, I
would like to see him retire a Patriot um and
and finishes. On some level, I would too. Legitimately, I
just think it looks. I think those weird last couple
of Michael Jordan's I guess probably is the number one
example of man, what happened? Why do you wear that
(20:19):
turquoise uniform? Nobody brings that up though when it comes
to Jordan, you always see him in his bull stuff.
Well here's the thing, and I think that you and
I have. Yeah, well, in fact, we did. Go unless
you're not good. See, if you go somewhere and you're
not good, it's different. If you go somewhere and you're
good and the team's good, then that's that's a different.
But like we talked about the last if Jordan went
(20:40):
to that other team and was scoring forty five points
a game and they were in the playoffs and when
and we wouldn't have that, those doesn't make it right, Willie.
And that's that's it. I just said it wouldn't. It wouldn't.
It wouldn't. It wouldn't fizzle out the way it did. No,
I agree, but it was to me there was no
dignity in Brett Farve in Vikings fans buying that shirt.
(21:04):
They were both wrong, but within the division that was
gross business alright, business now, but also relationships. Here's another
one that I was thinking about last week. Would Tom
based on his relationship? I'm just we could talk about
whatever you won. This is interesting. It's interesting stuff. I'll
(21:29):
tell you one thing I don't want speaking of dignity there.
It was put out there a month or two ago.
You know what if Roethlisberger can't come back Tom Brady
for the Steelers. I don't want that. You can let
Tom know that. I think that too. I don't want that.
I don't want you know what I'd rather go. I'd
rather go to and fourteen. I'd rather I don't don't
(21:49):
play that game. I'm not interested. I'd rather go to
and fourteen than than win a super Bowl with Brady.
It wouldn't be right. It would be a super Bowl now,
it wouldn't It would to me, it wouldn't count. I
would ask, I don't want it. I'm not a Vikings fan.
I I I'm not that desperate that I would that.
I would root for the arch rival who tormented me
(22:11):
for fift twenty years now. He is a forty Niners
fan grew up that loved Montana. I asked Tom Brady once,
as a matter of fact, you have to win one game,
all the marbles, you know, fate of the planet hangs
in the balance. Who do you want to under center
for that game? Joe Montana or Tom Brady? He said, Oh,
I gotta go with Joe. I don't think he meant that, though.
(22:32):
I think he would take him. Don't you think he
would take himself over Montana. I know, but he's not
gonna he wouldn't say it, but deep down you know
what he thinks, right, Tom is always Tom. Yeah, that's right. Um,
would he set aside any existing relationship he has with
Jimmy G. Because if you want to talk about a
team that he I mean they win the Super Bowl,
(22:55):
the Niners. I know, it's hard to do the math
on what might have happened over the course of know
and and so it boils down to one that's fair,
you know, completely unfair to Jimmy G, who I still
consider to be a little undervalued with what he did
over the course of the season. Um, but he makes
(23:15):
one throw to Emmanuel Sanders, they win the Super Bowl.
Kyle Shanahan surely sees that Jimmy G floats two to
four balls every sixty minutes that are interceptible, and surely
he sees for a rental for a two year rental.
I could get that, Lombardi, if we bring twelve in.
Then the only sticking point is besides living across the country,
(23:38):
which is a which is a valid concern for Brady,
if you do that is are you really going to
do that to Jimmy G because you'd have to purge
Jimmy G to make that happen. Inhod we're talking about
a guy who the Patriots traded. That's right, that's making
a million dollars, that gave me the franchise guy who
played in a Super Bowl this year, benching him for
(24:02):
two years. So whatever he's making, we're just gonna shelf
that money. And signing Tom Brady is probably gonna make
thirties something millions, whatever the case is not the same,
it'll be about the same. And you got about seventy
million bucks and quarterback money for that one year. One
guy is sitting, one guy's playing, but you also have
the Lombardy. Well you gotta win it first. Well, but
(24:24):
they'll win it. But what about also for real? This
is the sort of fantasy football kind of nonsense. I know,
but it but it is fun. Who would legitimately um
our mutual pal Bill Simmons, who I know you were
on his show a year or so ago and he
was a fan of yours. Um He and I were
talking about this. What I mean, who says he's one
(24:45):
of his favorite phrases? Who who says? Who says no?
Who says no, Belichick calls up Kyle Shanahan or John
Lynch whatever and says Tom Brady for Jimmy G straight up,
who SA Isn't that forty three year old guy versus
(25:05):
a guy who obviously craft on down liked WHOA. I
would say this since they tried to work something out
to keep Jimmy G there, That's always a possibility if
we're talking fantasy, right, So I think, okay, Um, if
the forty Niners could find a guy in the draft
(25:31):
and have Tom Brady would have solid back up. I
don't think that's a loss either. I think both teams
are win. Um. It's just depending on if you want
to go through that whole quarterback process again with the
forty Niners, Like after two years, you gotta well not
at the two right when you get time, you gotta
start working on that next guy, whether it's in the
(25:53):
draft that can sit and learn, or got Jeremiah, it's
got Justin Herb falling all the way to the Patriots
and then snagging him at twenty three. I don't know
if he falls that far. I don't think he does.
But again, you want to play fantasy, that's a fun one.
I don't know if he falls, but that would be good.
And okay, last thing about Brady and then we'll quickly
(26:15):
keep it with you about some other stuff. Um is
um again, you say Tom always bets on Tom. With
Tom bet on Tom, fort three year old Tom in
the same division as Patrick Mahomes. And what is now
the new yard stick? Because that's the looming thing if
you think from a football plaser, winning record against Patrick Mahomes. Know,
but do you think Tom looks at it and I
(26:36):
want to be in a division with that guy. He
has a winning record against Patrick Mahomes and he won
his Super Bowl going through Patrick Mahomes. Alright, that's all
I'm saying. Tom's not scared of anybody like Patrick Mahomes,
not scared of anybody like these guys are fearless. These
guys are warriors. So when you say Pat Pat Mahomes
like he is the future, he's the guy. But when
(26:57):
you talk Tom Brady, he's like, let me add him,
like I'm gonad to head with anybody. Always says these Oh,
that guy is not afraid of anybody. Or do you
come across guys like, well, that guy's scared. You can
see it in some quarterbacks and it's not the quarterback
they're playing against us that defense, you know, but you
could see it like we knew certain quarterbacks we played against.
You get one good hit, we get to talk in
(27:18):
a little bit, get that pressure coming. You can see it,
ball coming out quick. He's not even looking at the
receiver's just getting the ball out. I'm just saying, like,
there's guys out there. Watch does that happen even this year?
Watch some of these quarterbacks. You think it, But does
that play the younger guys, because I think the mindset
is that guy gets happy feet when guys get closed
him and everything, but he's got to work out of
(27:40):
veteran guys like that. It's the older and young guys.
They get hit too many times and they start there
like I'm thirty eight. They come out quick. So these
these defenses are sophisticated where they're gonna take away the
same college air ray where the balls bop bop bop bop. Right,
they're gonna take away your number one option. They're gonna
make you pull that down. Okay, now we gotta go
through our progression. All we gotta tuck and run. We
(28:02):
gotta go So usually when you take away guys first,
the first option, if he's in that type of system,
he's tucking in and going because he doesn't have time,
or he's smaller in the pocket that pockets caving in. Now,
that's when that pressure starts to kick in. It's not
a lot of guys that are still comfortable poise that
can sit there and be like, oh, I gotta come
(28:22):
off of him. There he is, Oh, let me come back,
let me come back here and deliver. There's not a
lot of guys like that, trust me. So after a
couple of times when you got guys these these monsters
coming off the edge or up the middle, you're like
these you know, these Chris Jones and von Miller's and
and all these other guys coming off the edge and
delivering a blow. Aaron Donalds. You you you you that
(28:45):
that's what starts to trickle up a little bit more.
Trust me, guys, you've seen it in the big games.
Think about it. I'm not gonna mention any guys, but
you've seen it last year and the year before and
the biggest games. When that I should start to hit
the biggest game, Spaghetti, what games he talking about? Well,
we'll figure that out once you leave. We'll do we'll
(29:06):
we'll try to read the tea ball starts coming off
that back foot. They're just trying to get it out
of there. I don't see that returns me. Now see,
now we're back in the off season, and this is
the time where we should just assemble an NFL worthy defense.
I just want to see if I can drive off
an NFL offense for points. Doesn't have to be a
touch Now, let's do it. Start the ball at the forty,
(29:27):
my own forty. I think I could. I could drive
the team, you know, thirty yards and get a field
go yeah, yeah, me a quarterback. I mean you handing
the ball off every time, you gotta be like you
gotta have Derrick Henry or something. A lot. I'm gonna
I'm gonna hand the ball off a lot, Willie. But
at one point you're gonna do a flip pass. No, no, no, no,
we don't need we don't need the nonsense. We don't
(29:50):
need the gadget tree that's selling out. That's that's not
what I'm about. That's one of their players that sweet
passed that little point. They just dumping off the deepo
Samuel boot I'm old school. I don't do that new
fangled jive. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look, I'm gonna, i'm gonna,
I'm gonna run the ball. I'm gonna run the ball.
I'm gonna run the ball. But then my number one receiver,
this is the one, this is the one. I'm gonna
(30:10):
give him the signal then play action bang. You know,
one time I get something like um, hey, uh speaking
of of you mentioned the combine and um, A quick
question for you about that is, Isaiah Simmons, You're you're
legitimately I do cite you. I always say Cam Newton
(30:33):
is the number one specimen I've ever seen uh as
a football player. And when you stand next to you're like,
oh yeah, yeah, you're the You're the biggest dude on
the field. I guess, um, but I always sight like
Willie mcguinnis is a site to behold if you're in
his company, Like, that's a that is a big dude. Um.
Who Isaiah Simmons is a guy who is is sort
(30:55):
of capable. It looks like to be the next Derwin
James type. How hard is that to do? Because of
the bill that it's it's like that in between size.
Do you remember David Fulcher or you two young or
Steve Atwater, those guys who are like they've built like
linebackers at Water. At Water was a beast at safety,
and he does look like a linebacker can run. I
(31:16):
will say this, Um, but at Water played safety in college, correct.
I you know what? I talked him about it a
couple of years ago. I don't remember exactly what the
split was. I think he I think he had played
more safety than than than a linebacker. So Isaiah Um,
everybody wants to put him saying That's what I'm asking
(31:37):
is everybody's like, why do you do the hybrid stuff? Why? Why?
Why would a professional evaluator asked me or ask anybody
what do I do with him? I have a problem
with that, Like the number one thing you want to
do with guys that can affect every single play. If
he's a linebacker, why would I want to put him
at safety? Now, if there's some strange defense that I
(31:59):
want to throw people off and put him as safety
for to do something, Okay, that's great, I'm putting him
in a box. He's a linebacker. Now we know he
can line up in the Star. He can line up
outside and cover. He can do all those different things.
He's covering tight ends, he's covering backs. I'm not putting
him against the riquee. I'm not putting them against Keenan Allen.
I'm not putting against some of these receivers he like.
(32:22):
It's good. He did that in college. These guys are
around him in the league, so it's not the same.
And that's we're playing zone. Okay, I want him in
a box. If he's that fast, then he can cover
the tight ends, running backs, if they stay in the block,
he can rush because we know he can rush if
they run the ball. Is he a willing tackler? Does
(32:43):
he want to come up and play that line of scrimmage?
That's the question about him. Is he physical? Does he
want to play the line of scrimmage? Because if I'm
playing against the forty Niners, guess what, you gotta play
the run. If you're playing against the Ravens, you gotta
play the run. If you're playing against Seattle, you gotta
(33:04):
play the run. And I can go on and on
and on Tennessee, bring it, bring your lunch. We're not
gonna throw the ball fifty times a game. Jimmy g
Jimmy in the playoffs only throw the ball six times
in two games. You gotta play the run until you
can stop it. So if this kid is as advertised,
(33:26):
we know about all the coverage stuff, and we're gonna
use him and that, of course, but we're also going
to use him to affect the pocket more than anything.
Get after the quarterback, play the run, cover, go out
and cover. I'm not gonna waste him by putting the
mass safety because now I can scheme against him being
(33:47):
off the ball. He doesn't affect the play every play
from back there. He just doesn't. It is a different
era because, yes, along with that Water, there was also
David Fulcher, who was I mean nearly that big too
the water as a safety like he came into the
league as his safety. We didn't we didn't question, oh,
should we put him at linebacker? Did he hit like
a linebacker? Hell yeah, they're Ronnie Lott hit like a linebacker,
(34:10):
Hell yeah, there, Ronnie Harrison hit like a linebacker. Hell yeah,
that's just that's just one of the qualities they had.
They hit like linebackers. So I can bring those guys
in the box when we when we got covered three
or something, and we know that they can play like
a hybrid linebacker like a Derwin James right, like the
(34:30):
Seattle Seahawks, Uh Chancellor, like a guy like that that
we can play in a box that's a force. So
that's just one of his qualities. But these guys are safeties.
So I think with him, he's a linebacker, but I
won't if I take him out of the box and
put him at safety. He like, I'm not gonna take
full advantage of all his all his skills. That's all
(34:53):
I'm saying. Um A couple more things I mentioned Cam
Newton and the awe that he evoked. Send other professional
football players. Um Tyreek Hill speed, Um Lamar Jackson speed
comes to mind. You know, Rashan Evans just a week
ago sat here and I was talking about It's like
there's something that stands out, Like I've seen a lot
(35:14):
of fast guys. There's quickness. What if there was one,
if there were four somewhere in that range, is there
a single physical aspect of of one guy like oh,
Kyle Long. I was just talking about Aaron Rodgers arm
that when you see that thing in person, for the
first time, you're like, WHOA that thing is on a
(35:35):
different level. Is there another thing? Is you know Durrell
Reeve's jam anything like that? That's like that one thing.
I've never seen anything like that. Uh. I think when
you talk and depending on what position anything whatever, it
is like get off like a like a defensive n
or outside linebacker like a Derek Thomas cat quick, get
(35:57):
off like a Von Miller cat quick, get off inside
Aaron Donald like he's so explosive. Those type of things,
quickness and an explosion, Like you gotta have the two together.
You could be quick and soft and get and get
punched up in jam, right, But if you're quick and
you're strong, and you're explosive in your hands are violent.
(36:19):
I think those things are the intangibles that separate the
greats from just the goods in the okas. So you
name a couple of different positions, like for a dB,
does he have ketchup speed? If you get beat off
the ball, can you catch up to the guy like
the Dion Sanders of the world. Like those type of
guys the ketchup speed where it doesn't really matter what
(36:41):
happens at the line. Like I know, if the balls
in there, I'm gonna track it, track the ball and
probably come down with the ball and make up big play,
you know what I mean. Or like a Luke Kickley okay,
who was recently retired but one of the best at
the game, and identifying what the player is digesting boom
getting to the play, Like right now he's gonna read
the formation and time the ball gets to where he
(37:01):
needs to be, he's there meeting the ball, taking or
intercepting the ball or making a big hit because he
digests the information and processes is so fast that he's
able to make those type plays. So I think those
little intangibles from the defensive side of the ball um
make you special and separates you from other players. That's
a you know, the one that I threw out that
(37:23):
really is the hardest to fathom for for me, and
I think for a lot of fans, is that Darrell Reeves.
It's like he's I mean, he was a physical specimen
in in certain regards. But the thing, more than anything
else is like I would ask guys all the time,
what is it. Why is Darrell Reeves just a shutdown guy?
And they would just say, because you can't get by
him when the ball is snapped, he just man handles you.
(37:45):
I'm like, really, that just happens every week and there's
just no whipping him because he would just put his
hands on you and just stop it. I think with him, like,
first of all, he like leverage. I wouldn't say it
was the strongest, you know, defensive back or whatever, but
he le rich. His footwork is understanding of routes, understanding
if you're in a certain position, what kind of route
(38:07):
you can run when you're able to run taken out
away his football i Q. And knowing when the jam
not over being over aggressive because if you'd be over aggressive,
you can miss and get beat. Um and being able
like just instincts. Those are other things like you just
can't say, hey, I'm gonna draft you and give you
(38:27):
some instincts. You can't do that. You know, certain players
possessed that ed Re possessed that, like Edvery was one
of the best. Who, um, who do you think will
catch more passes? Um, Mike Evans or Chris Godwin from
Tom Brady? No, man, that's crazy. If Tom Brady is there,
you're talking about Tampa Bay. He could possibly go there
to Tampa st Petey. That's another hen is he gonna
(38:50):
like that pirate ship? I don't know. It's cheesy. It's cheesy,
but you'll hear it a lot of Tom the sort
of guy that would be like, I need to see
the uniforms, what these new MPI uniforms are gonna look like?
Before I can sign here. I can't wear something ridiculous
in my final days. He won't care. I would consider
that he's a handsome man. I would be like, don't
diminish my looks in the twilight of my career with
(39:12):
some ridiculous get up. You know the outfit too, you
know what? That's what I struggle with. See, they're certain
now I've seen you dressing certain. With James Jones in particular,
he wears certain things. I'm like, you look good in that,
And if I wore that, people would point and laugh.
But somehow you look you would look better. But I'm
glad you a little humility there. I'm I'm very humble, Willie.
(39:34):
Don't you find that to be the case? All right, Um,
all right, that's it Willie McGinn. It's always a pleasure
when he comes in for a visit here. It's too long.
It takes too long, Willy. You know, we gotta we
gotta make I don't have to only talk about Tom Brady.
It's interesting. Now you gotta conversation. Do you want to
talk about other stuff? I'll come back. How about that?
(39:55):
All right? Come back at at your convenience, at your leisure. Well,
we'll come back. We could maybe we get Tom we'll
we'll put him in all the outfits you know were Oh,
you're right, we're gonna skip Tom. Right, you're right, anything
but the next time Willie comes in, Spaghetti, that's on you.
Anything but Tom Brady. My rundown was all full of
(40:16):
other stuff. Besides, we could talk about USC. I want
to talk about the state of USC football. You don't
want to talk about that worst worst recruiting class in
the in the whole conferen Oregon stayed as a better
recruiting classy. Yeah, there he goes everybody number fifty five
(40:36):
from the Cleveland Browns and beyond the great Willie McGinnis. Everyone.
Oh yeah, you're listening to Dave Dad the shack. Did
he seem upset there? Spaghetti? The USC dig a little bit.
I think that's the wrong guy to get upset. You
(40:58):
think Willie beats me in a fight. I do too,
So there you go. More more humility from Damna shack Um.
What all right, let's read the tea leaves now here.
That's the third time I've used that phrase too much
Corolla in my in my years and in my life apparently.
But let's read the tea leaves here about Tom Brady.
What do we think, spaghetts? What do you take away
(41:20):
from that? I think now I don't know what the thing? Well, first,
a little quickly, are you upset about the fact that
we did a pod at least a week, if not
two weeks before the rest of the national media have
picked up on this San Francisco thing that you've brought up?
Because you see that's makeaways again. Today I read something
(41:40):
about that and I and I see people like to
seed in their little rite ups, like as I said
a month ago, I like to do that too, to
make it clear where I started it. But I see
no evidence of anybody having brought that up. I think
the first one I saw was Dion and then today
looks like NBC Sports Boston. Tom Curran went on Matt
Dog Radio and said that he believes that chatter is real,
(42:03):
so it looks like the third person who is said this, Okay,
let's again, let's break it down. Chargers Willie seems to
think are in play. He thinks, but he also said
that's across the country. But if the Chargers are in play,
and then obviously so two are the Niners, then the
question becomes, what do you do about Jimmy G. You
(42:26):
would have to purge him in some way, So then, legitimately, Willie,
I mean, I said it was fantasy as well, but
could you really trade Jimmy G. Wouldn't that be the
craziest thing. What have that happened? What if the Patriots
traded back to get Jimmy G. I don't I don't
buy that. I don't buy it either, But it would
be the equivalent of Montana and Steve Young. I still
(42:49):
don't know it would be would be weirder than that,
even though because yeah, Steve Young's a Hall of Famer,
Jimmy G isn't track into the Hall of Fame. At
this point, I ultimately still believe that Briany has just
pushed this to get the most money out of out
of the Patriots, And I still think that they They're
not dumb, Like I don't believe this whole There's like
were rumors coming up to some people in the Patriots
(43:10):
organization believe that they have to do a full rebuild.
They're gonna start pawning off pieces. I don't I understand it.
Like you said, they were almost a two seat away.
You know they could they've beat good teams. This this
past season doesn't make any I mean it's literally, it's
literally can be boiled down to one play. If you know,
Gilmore knocks down a single ball thrown to Parker in
(43:32):
that final drive, knocks down the one pass, then the
you know, the Patriots are thirteen and three in the
two seed. And I'm telling you, man, I don't know
what would have happened if the Patriots go to k C.
But I do know that the Ravens would have beaten
the Texans in Baltimore in the divisional round, and therefore
(43:52):
you would have had that Ravens team that I feel
like needed to get over. I mean that it is
crazy how that I can never get a or how
those single plays can completely impact the trajectory not of
a team, but the way an entire season then shakes
out and then what happens in the next five to
ten years because of that stuff. I mean, really, if
(44:15):
the if the Ravens had vanquished the Chiefs, let's say,
or maybe even the week before Brady gets him, what's
the conversation now. I mean, obviously it's wildly different. Jordan's
Love wouldn't be created. I mean as a complete wild
offshoot of that. Jordan's Love is now creeping up the
board because everybody sees the next Pactor Mahomes. But if
Patrick Mahomes didn't come up big against the Ravens in
(44:38):
the title game, people would be looking for Lamar Jackson.
And you think Taysom Hill is hot now or was
flow or at least a few weeks ago people were
talking about that. People would be at the combine and
be on talking about how do we get the next
Lamar Jackson. That's just a side note to the way
we would regard Andrew Reid and Patrick Mahomes and who
knows Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh might have to Lombard
(45:00):
ease and therefore be a virtual lock to make the
Hall of Fame himself at this point. Fascinating stuff. So
what your guest is Patriots. I think the only way
he leaves the Patriots is if there's a real issue
between Brady, Belichick, and Craft, Like there's just not a
good relationship between those three guys. Besides that, I was
looking up their cash says they have they're gonna have
like in cash phase range. I know DJ said that
(45:23):
that they would take Justin Herbert if he's slid in
the draft. But if you have a pick in the
early twenties, there's a ton of good receivers in this draft,
just take one of those guys to help Brady out.
Like Willie said, you know forever ago about give Tom
all the pieces he could possibly need. Um they're all
I'll be healthy, and I know they miss some guys
last year. They have a bunch of good running backs.
It's like he does not make any sense for him
to go to a new team to try it again
(45:44):
when you're in an easy in a very very winnable division,
depending on what you feel about the Bills. So it
does not make any sense football wise to leave that team.
It's funny because you say, because he Willie said, Tom
bets on Tom. Tom's not afraid of anybody. But again,
I always talk about out um our perception of of
(46:04):
Tom Brady and what his legacy is, and some scoff
at all, Why would he care about that because he's Tom,
because clearly he cares about how he's perceived in the
history of pro football. Um, maybe I wonder if you
do the math on, like, I should get out of
this division now because here comes the Dolphins. They're gonna
(46:25):
be better, The Bills are definitely going to be good,
and the Jets might even be good. Better get out now,
and then I leave as just being the all time
owner of the a f C East. Yeah, but I
feel like that if he went to like the Raiders
are a team always everyone's bringing up, It's like I'd
rather go or rather still be a Patriot in the
a f C East verse the Bills, who may be
(46:48):
you know, back to back year playoff team, or in
the Jets and Dolphins are you know, on the rise,
I guess, versus the Chiefs, who are just you know,
they won the Super Bowl or you know it's another
division that's uh, you go. But if you come up
with it. But if you come up short in the
Chiefs division, at least you say, well, they're the reigning
super sure, but at least but those are those are
a stone cold, lock hard opponent to be to me,
(47:10):
would not shock me if the Pats still, you know,
only lost let's say one or two games out of
the anf C s. I am ruling out the Raiders
right now. That's not gonna happen. Did you see Willie's
reaction to that? I mean, yeah, I don't. I don't
think Willie thinks that Tom is going anywhere though? Is
that really your takeaway? I just again, I don't think
(47:30):
it makes sense, all right, But I mean I thought
he was less He seemed less shure, definitely less sure.
But I think everyone because it's been there hasn't been
any leaks one of where the other there has been like,
but there's been a lot of weird leaks too. Did
anyone actually believe the Giants were in on time? But
I will say I don't feel like whoever does get
(47:51):
Tom Brady if you're if you're the Chargers. This idea
of let's do two things at one time, let's serve
two masters. Let's bring in the goat and also groom
his success or whether it's justin Herbert or otherwise, that
makes no sense. If you're the Chargers and you signed
Tom Brady, you draft a piece to help Tom Brady,
you draft an offensive lineman Beckon right, that's the pick,
(48:15):
or just somebody like that online. I mean the SiNW
trade didn't work out though they wanted to. Maybe you
go take another receiver. So I'm talking about the Chargers.
Oh sorry, yeah, but I'm saying, yes, the Charges you
need to pick. Yes, I mean they will. They may
lose Melvin gor and they may go running back, or
I mean they have holes as well. That's that's my
point ultimately about the pages that they have to me.
Out of the other teams, you can go to the
(48:36):
least amount of holes, the best staff in place, and
the easiest division. The other one is too. It's just
the one that sounds the weirdest to me of them
all is Tampa Bay because Tampa Bay, um before you
were alive. They came into existence. But my brain, they
still seem like a a new team to me that
(48:58):
they still resonate on that level to me because my
earliest football memories include like Tampa Bay finally good after
all these years. They've only been in the league for
five years at that point. But people are like, finally
the long suffering Bucks fans have a winner. As they
made the playoffs and Doug Williams and the cream Sickles
and all that um, and they did well. It just
(49:19):
sounds weird, and I legitimately think part of it in
my brain has to do with the bad uniforms and
the pirate chip in the end zone, and that seems
somehow undignified to me for Tom Brady to go and
play in that situation. But if you remove all that,
if they had simple uniforms and uh and all that
sort of thing from a football perspective, with I mean
(49:42):
just the past catchers they have and then Bruce Arians,
who gets the best out of every quarterback who he's
ever coached, that makes a ton of sense to me. Yeah,
I mean, Arians has been pretty vocal about getting a
replacement in for uh, for jam as their defense is
really good last year they have you know, too great receivers.
They drafted a Titan you know, way too early, that
(50:04):
uh who everyone thought could be a weapon. So it
would make sense for Tom Ready to have a team
like that. It's actually almost like, uh, similar situation to
what the Patriots used to be, you know, a team
with weapons good to even but you know, I don't,
I just can't. I don't imagine it. And also I
always talk about the action and reaction that you get
within the division when one team is doing something then
(50:25):
another team. When you know, five years ago, six years ago,
when Aaron Rodgers was tormenting the rest of the NFC North,
you saw the other teams in the division start to
build their defenses specifically to stop Aaron Rodgers. I wonder
if Tom Brady announced in three weeks, yeah, I'm going
to Tampa, if Carolina would be like, ah, forget it,
let's not bring camp back. Then just rebuild it because
(50:47):
we're not gonna win the division anyway. And then you
have old man Drew Brees, and then you have the Falcons,
who are intriguing but certainly not a lock to rebound
fully in. That's a good situation. I'm get down from
that perspective because Tom Brady doesn't want to get in barrassed.
He doesn't want to go somewhere and go eight and eight.
He wants to win the division and make a Super
(51:08):
Bowl run. I think the only team that he could
go to without having any flak is if he goes
to San Francisco because he could say it's a homecoming
and he wants to end his career playing in the
place where then he's got to be perceived as having
pushed out Jimmy g which and he'll get a bad
guys stink on him for doing that, right, which is
why nothing else makes sense. There's no way Tom Brady,
who is now a brand, could be like, well, I
(51:30):
think going to Tampa Bay is a move, and there's
no I'm trying to think eve in terms of his
his reasoning. You can't say why it's smart to leave
New England for Tampa. But you can't say why it's
smart to leave New England for whether it was Vegas
or if it's Los Angeles or if it's Indianapolis. To me,
there's just no team that makes sense in terms of
a pr move beside San Francisco. That but if you
want if you want publicity for something, if you say
(51:52):
the owner, or if there's a business, a burgeoning business
that bears your name, then you might be incentive to
the Southern California, especially if that is a um a
holistic rehab type center like TB twelve is. If you
land that where's the epicenter of um that twenty one
(52:13):
century sort of doctor in more than Southern California is
in these United States. That makes a lot of sense.
Tom Brady takes his brand to Southern California, that makes
a lot of sense to me. If he is okay
with going eight and eight and having a mediocre Nate
you think he goes eight and a with the Chargers,
I wouldn't be Are you crazy? I do not think
(52:35):
that's a good team with him there at all. Wait
a minute, Well, that's a great one to leave on them.
We'll debate that later in the week. There's just no
put in that what I'm gonna talk about that box.
I think he'd be great in the Bucks or the Colts,
But I mean, I don't see that. But they've already
said the cult of artists, and that's fine. But in
terms of like teams that have been rumored, those make
more sense in terms of football and winning games, Like
(52:57):
what are you talking about if they franchise Tag Hunter Henry?
What are you talking that that's the best trio of
pass catchers? Off the top of my head, I think
that you could throw out in football. Maybe just that
I just don't trust the Chargers. Maybe I don't, you know,
everyone had them very very high last year and they
fell apart. And Tom Tom was okay last year. He wasn't,
you know, obviously not Brady of Old. But I don't know,
(53:19):
and I don't know Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and Hunter Henry.
I'm sure people will let me know that I'm crazy
to say that. I'm obviously I must be forgetting somebody
out there. I guess Travis Kelsey, Tyree Hill, Sammy Watkins
if he goes back, would be a superhero anyway. You
get my point. That's a I think that on offense,
if they can address the offensive line a little bit.
(53:41):
I don't know, man, you need to get a left tackle,
but there are several good options, apparently according to Daniel
Jeremiah coming out of Indianapolis. All Right, that's it. Let's
will continue to debate that um later in the week.
In the meantime, though, um Eddie spaghetti, good stuff from you,
Number fifty five, Willia mc ginnis. Always insightful, always delightful,
(54:02):
and always good smelling, like I said at the top
of the show, and hopefully we'll get him back sooner
rather than later. Spaghetti, stay on that hold him to it.
Off season is here, after all, in the off season
is Damni sick season. So with that being said, we'll
keep It's with you a little later in the week.
Until then, thanks so much, football fans, it's been a
thin slice of heaven.
It'll bring up a second down and ten for the
Rams at the Patriot thirty nine yard line. Second down
in ten St. Louis ball in the near hash trying
to go left to right. Four forty five in the clock,
running patch lead seventeen to ten. Fireside left is Bruce,
near side right is Hope. Robinson is in the left
slot in motion. Right to left goes Conwell. Falk alone
(00:23):
running back, warner back to throw, stands in the pocket.
Now being rushed. Now he gets away back to midfield.
How he's still being chased. These head pack back at
the forty five yard line for the Patriots were relentless
on that one four man ross and they were able
to put that kind of pressure on him. Big, big,
big play. Willie McGinnis made the tackle back at the St.
(00:43):
Louis forty five yard line, third sack of the game.
Foot The Deep damnag Ship Football program available on Apple
Podcasts and at NFL dot com slash g DF. Now
here's your host, d Yeah, there he is number fifty five,
(01:08):
a legend for the Cleveland Browns, also toiled for the
New England Patriots. And you know I've said it about
James Jones. Before um. But William McGinnis might be the
o G in this regard for smelling good all the time.
And in fact, he told me once a number of
years ago, you know, it's a nice thing to do
for your colleagues, for your co workers, is to always
(01:30):
keep yourself, give yourself a little spritz a cologne and nice,
because yeah, it makes a nice impression. And now he
ceded to my immediate left, and uh, as you would suspect,
he smells just divine. It is the aforementioned Willie McGinnis.
What's happening, fella, I'm just chilling man, the awful little
combine run. Yeah, being able to evaluate the young new
(01:52):
talent coming into the league and being able to rub
elbows with the coaches and jams and just talk football,
it's probably it's probably be like that week is one
of the best weeks in football. It is in the
sense that what was striking to me was the season
that right after the Super Bowl um in Indie where
the Giants beat the Patriots. Two weeks later, you're right
(02:15):
back out in Indie and you're and you realize, oh,
the super Bowl, that's amateur hours. This is where this
this is where the pros are gathered. This is where
there's not a yeah, there's no riff raff. I remember
sitting at a at a in a bar next to
Bill Belichick and um Mike Lombardi and Belichick's son before
he was a coach, and they were just sitting there,
(02:36):
just just having a beer, and it was like, Wow,
there's Bill Belichick acting like a like like a guy
would yeah, having a beer. Um any who, Hi and
hello and welcomed to the Dave damn check football program.
Let's get into it here, little Willie post combine, pre
free agency and draft. There's a lot that kid, it's
about and wouldn't you know it, the face of the
twenty one century NFL. Tom Brady is in the newt
(03:00):
I just basically the way the millennium started here. And
you know I've said a lot Willie that I keep
tweeting it out. I don't know if you ever noticed
that I keep tweeting out the last time, uh we kid,
it's about Brady because I think it is. It remains
for all the speculation that's happened. It was exactly three
months ago today at the time of this recording, that
(03:20):
you gave your insights and you shot down my idea, Oh,
Brady should go to the Charges. It makes all the sense,
and you shot it down and then made a case
for what why Brady goes back to the Patriots. Yeah,
well you you laid out an interesting scenario and his
son being on the East Coast and not liking the
(03:41):
West coast. That and also from a football from a
roster building standpoint, you said that it makes sense for
Brady to try and see, not seize control, but to say,
let me have some say in what this offense needs
and and what pieces specifically we need in New England.
(04:02):
In New England, well, I think that happened. Just just remember,
let's just backtrack. So before the season we talked about that. Correct. Um,
he had Antonio Brown, right, a guy who played for
the Steelers who you know really well. Um, he had
Josh Gordon, he had Edelman, he had probably one of
the best offenses in the league at the time. Every
(04:27):
forgotten forgotten about Josh Gordon. Okay, and then you had
all your running back so everybody was like, wow, this
is okay, Patriots are going back to the super Bowl
right away. When that happened, Belichick had took over the defense.
So the defense was the number one defense. So now
you've got a balanced team on both sides of the ball. Well,
(04:48):
um did the bocle. Everything happened with a B and
Josh Gordon gets traded or sent away, probably because they
knew what was coming down the pipe. Now you don't
have two of the best players on your offensive side
of the ball. So now this offense is struggling modely.
Receivers can't get on the same page. They're putting to
(05:09):
kill Harry on ir he's gone for nine weeks, eight
weeks now, said disasterinarybody saying Brady doesn't have any weapons, Like,
what's going on here? They didn't give him what he
what he needed. What they did they did well everybody,
Brady was one of those guys they had, they had everything.
And if they could have kept that together and either
(05:30):
one if either one of those guys you had playing
a b scot, just either one. So a lot of
things broke down over the course of the season and
the end result was twelve and four, losing the first
round to the Titans. Well, and by the way, as
I keep reminding, and you know obviously I like a dynasty,
(05:52):
I also like a diet. But the reason I like
a dynasty is because it gives you the yardstick. It
gives you something to shoot for. As I have said
ad nauseum, now um Star Wars would stink without Darth Vader. Well,
the Patriots have emerged as the NFL starth Vader because
of all their winning um And so I wonder now
with uh if people have kind of are trying to
(06:16):
talk it into being that the Patriots, like you said,
they went twelve and four. You know, they don't lose
that game to the Dolphins in Foxboro. I mean, by
the way, I think that that what that sets up
is either the Patriots or Chiefs in um Baltimore for
the a f C title game. Baltimore gotten knocked off
by but they wouldn't have gotten knocked off in that
(06:37):
they would have had to play. They would have played
the Texas and they would have whipped the Texans. Like
that about Tennessee and in Tennessee going into Baltimore. Who
picked Tennessee? Did you? I didn't, but I but I
did say Spaghetti backed me up? Did I at least
say that there's something about Mike Vrabel's way that somehow
(06:58):
he's going to call it. I didn't. I didn't call it.
I just want to know. I want to know. I
want to know. You should be rich. You shouldn't even
be here right now if you call it that one.
You know what I did call was the Niners win
in that division. So that was a good call. Was
nobody else had that one? That was a good call.
I also had the Titans get into the playoffs. If
Ryan Tannehill and that was a close call that went
(07:18):
between one game like that could have flipped the four
Niners could have easily been the six ceed too. Yeah,
but I threw my juju in that direction and see
how it all worked out. Speaking of that, so let's
start there with this Brady stuff. Do you have any
insights on it? Any updates? If you talk to the guy,
I mean that that's my brother. Of course, we talked.
I try to stay away from Hey, where are you going?
I try not to. You know, we talked about family
(07:39):
and other things. I will say there's possibilities, and I
know the charges are one of those possibilities. UM, just
because they offer what you know, what you would want
as a veteran guy. UM saying if you want to
play two or three more years in the NFL. At
the quarterback position, you need, you need, you need things
around you, You need protection. I think they could get
(08:00):
little bit better at that. But weapons are running game, defense,
guys on the personnel, you like, you need those things
because you're not going somewhere to try to build, right,
You're going somewhere to try to win. That makes sense.
The teams that and I'm just speculating now I would
throw into the mixer are the teams I think the
Patriots get the first shot at it, just out of respect,
(08:22):
out of the relationship, you know, with with Tom and
Belichick and ownership the Craft family. I think the first
conversation should start in Foxboro. Okay, let's talk about the
Patriots to begin with, because I do think that that
kind of nullifies everything that would potentially happen after that.
Is it is there somebody out there or there guys
(08:42):
out there that makes sense for that's the quick fix
for the Patriots to make them from by the way again,
twelve and four team almost was thirteen and three, almost
had to buy again. And who knows where the postseason
goes if all that, if all that comes to be
so It's not like they're miles away from being a
super being back in the Super Bowl in eleven months
from now. But to make that happen, what piece or
(09:05):
two does that offense need that Is there a name
specifically that's I mean because I could been saying Hunter Henry,
but it's clear that they're going to tag him now, yeah,
and that makes sense. You would have to match that
or do something to get him over. So I think
the tight end position is extremely important for the short
adymedia passing routes that you know that exists within that
office with Josh McDaniels, I think a receiver, UM, when
(09:27):
you look at it, Emmanuel Sanders is a free agent.
He's a guy who thought about going to New England.
I know that because I talked to him before. UM,
if there was interest, of course Tom Brady, heck yeah,
I will go and play with Tom Brady. UM. Also draft,
this is one of the deepest drafts. After receiver position.
You can go get a receiver, a big body receiver
with speed that runs routes. UM. Now we we we
(09:50):
also know they have the running backs. But I think
those two positions, UM could My guess is obviously you
know better than I um. But it seems to me
like the way the Patriots like to do things with
McDaniels and Brady is it's going it takes some time
to ramp up to that. You don't just walk in
there as I'm a super talented pass catcher air go
(10:12):
I'm gonna thrive with the goat. It takes a while
because it's a lot of choice by the receiver, right
I mean specifically, well, it's it's game plan specific, you know,
and depending it's you know, they throw the state, the
passing game, depending on who they're planning against, changes, I
would say. But over over the last few years, it's
(10:33):
what short the intermediate. So, Okay, you're drafted to kill
Harry last year, he'll he'll be a little further ahead
this year and understanding the concepts, the playbook and all that.
So you got him, you got Edelman healthier, and you
got the backs tied in. Get another receiver, Okay, if
if that's what you're looking for, maybe in free agency,
then you go get a receiver in the second round
(10:55):
or something like that, whatever whatever the case may be.
But I think as far as um um, he deserves
to have those resources around him. I'm surprised legitimately because
when we talked about this a few months ago, it
is weird because you know, you always would hear about
Jordan's having signed off on roster moves with the Bulls,
(11:17):
and they're various examples of that. It's weird that Tom
Brady isn't more intimately involved that we don't know the
conversations day I thought that was the book. Is that
he stays out of that stuff, I'm not sure. I
think I think he's earned the right to agree that
knowing the guys and what kind of guy fits best
with what they're trying to do, I think him Josh Belichick.
You know, I don't know. We know Belichick runs the
(11:39):
show Football Operations and all out. Of course, there's no
question about it. But I think, why wouldn't you go
to a guy like that and be like, hey, what
do you think about this kid? I exactly, Well, a
lot of the reason I thought that Brady was going
to leave was because I assumed Josh McDaniels was going
to take a coaching gig. But now he stays, and
so he's waiting out Belichick. Is that is that fair assumption?
(12:00):
I don't know. I don't think anybody's gonna push Belichick
out a rushroom to retire. I think he's too great
of a coach to even talk about that. I think
when he's ready, he will UM. And Josh is comfortable there,
his family is comfortable there. He got a new deal
a couple of a year ago, I believe, and I
think the dynamic works great, and it has to be
a perfect situation. It's hard to leave New England and
(12:22):
go find the way that is structured and have that
same um, those same resources, that same power, the same
um influence on what you want to do as a
head coach in another place, and you've got to make
sure it's everything's right from top to bottom. So I
think when Josh this next time around, remember he did
it before when he went to Denver, he understands it
(12:44):
a little bit more and understands what you will need
UM to go and do that. And if it's not right,
why why mess up with you have there? Well that
you know, I've come, I've come kind of full circle.
I'm not gonna I mean, Tampa Bay is interesting. In
Tennessee is interesting, and uh um, the Chargers are interesting,
But ultimately you know, David carr Um was in here
(13:05):
a little while ago and we were talking about it,
and he said, practically, Tom Brady is forty three. Obviously
he's a family guy, loves those kids and and um,
it hasn't reason to love his lifestyle. Why would he
want to disrupt that at this age? Because with the Patriots,
the premises maybe I'll show up at O. T A
(13:26):
S for a day or two in the off season,
you go anywhere else. It's gonna be hard to do
that because even if it's Keenan Allen and Mike Williams,
he's gonna have to develop chemistry and it's gonna take
a lot more reps between now and September. Right, He
doesn't that when it comes to football and it's time
to go to work and doing what he needs to do.
His family has everybody's family's sacrifice, you know, you sacrifice
(13:49):
that time with your family and friends and all that
when it's time to go to work. And I think that, um,
knowing it's only for a couple more years, the family
will probably be okay with that. To develop that chemistry,
if that's something you have to do, he does that anyway.
He does that in the off season with the receivers
that are there, that's been with him forever anyway in Montana,
so that's not something he's not used to doing. Wherever
(14:11):
he goes, those receivers are gonna be right where he is,
and they're gonna throw, and they're gonna be on the
same page and they're gonna work. So whether it's in
New England, Tennessee, um l A W wherever, wherever, wherever
else in the universe people want to put Tom Brady,
those receivers will be with him throwing and working in
the off season, no question about that. See, it is
(14:32):
a fun like but this is kind of like fantasy football,
not not since Peyton Manning was a free agent? Is
it fun to play the game of where should this
Hall of Fame QB go? And where might you win
a a Lombardi And as far as that goes, our
mutual pal Maurice Jones Drew said when the Jaguars, When
when it became clear he wasn't going back to the
(14:53):
Jaguars and the twilight of his career, he says that
his first call to his agent was get me on
the coach because I'm want to play that team. Twice.
Obviously he goes to the Raiders instead. Um, then there
was the Peyton Manning thing like I don't want to
go to the NFC because I don't want to have
to go up against Eli. So those are two kinds
of trains of thought. Which is Tom Brady because that
(15:15):
will help to inform as we try to read these
tea leaves. Is Tom Brady the sort of guy who's like,
I want to play Belichick, get me in the the
East doesn't have a good landing spot form, but you
could drop in in the a f C. He you
could drop him in the NFC in the a f
C West. As a matter of fact, you could make
a case for the Raiders. You can make a case
(15:35):
for the Chargers. I don't think the Raiders. The Raiders
don't make sense to him. I don't really get that one.
But what where where people keep coming up with that one?
But the Chargers do make sense? So is he is
Tom Brady wired in in a way that's that's like,
you know what, I don't want to do that to
Belichick and Craft and and and do that. I'll see
(15:57):
him in the Super Bowl if I see him, but
I don't want to have to go against them in
the postseason or is he built like or give them
to me. I want I want to be right there.
I want them seeing me my team in the standings.
I want to see him in the seedings of the
a f C. Into I say Tom Brady as a warrior,
and when it comes to competing, Um, wherever you are
(16:20):
on the other side, you know, of the table or
of the field, of the ball, it really doesn't matter.
And I think that's true for all of us. UM.
I left and went to Cleveland and played New England,
and I heard that I couldn't wait. We didn't win,
but I couldn't wait to go out there and and
and play. I just think, if you're a warrior and
you're competitive, it doesn't really matter what happens. Um. There's
(16:44):
that you know, camaraderie and football and family side, and
then there's that business side too, And you hate to
have to address that business side when it comes up
because there's a lot of personal you know, things that
are attached to that, like you know, the uh, the
reputation you build in a certain city, the fan base,
your brothers you've worked with, the staff you've worked with forever,
(17:07):
whether there's coaches, whether it's ownership, UM, where there's people
in the locker room like your own special equipment guys,
whatever the case may be. And when you have to
leave all that, that's the tough decision to make. That's
the thing is you think about UM. You know, his
families on the East Coast New York area, so his
son Jack is there, So that's really really important. Family
(17:30):
is really really important to time, Like we're family, like
with me and all the guys that we played against
that I mean played with. That was an important part
of us why we were so tight because family was
tight and we didn't see each other as teammates, we
saw each other as families. So I think there's a
lot of important factors when you talk about moving and
(17:52):
leaving and going to the West coast, are going here,
like you have to factor in outside of just xs
and those. When it comes to a guy like t
it's it's interesting and it's a point that is you
really shouldn't ignore because that's one thing I've learned over
the past decade is that it is a business like
any other, and in a business like any other, you
(18:14):
develop relationships and people who you're comfortable with people who
you who you vibed with and all that sort of thing.
So how close exactly was Tom Brady to Mike Vrabel?
They were all close. It was close to your Pali
Yeah likes Mike Vrabel. Mike Vrabel likes him, of course. Yeah,
they're good friends. I mean, that's an interesting idea. I mean,
(18:36):
it could be they got they got a pretty good
offensive line right at really nice young pass catchers. I mean,
you know, running game, don't forget that that's important Number
one running game. You in the lead, you forgot about that?
And how I didn't forget about good defense? No, I
didn't forget about anything. It's a possibility, like everybody speculating,
(18:57):
but it's a possibility. There's a lot of teams that
we're not even talking about that's probably called his agent, Like,
we don't know those are the ones. We can boil
it that those are those are the ones that were
just you know, jumping off the paper and everybody's talking about.
But like I said, um, it's it's it's something that
he's never experienced before, like a lot of us that
(19:18):
played there, And there's a lot of things that run
through your hand. Listen, things like this legitimate. I think
fans love this kind of thing. But I think some
players at least care about the idea of like, I
want to play the whole my whole career in this uniform.
I don't want. I don't want to end it. Like
you know, the images that still pop up before we
(19:38):
were alive of Johnny anditas and and Joe Namath, Well
maybe I was alive for some of those. You were
alive for something. I'm trying to like that. The guys
that you like it's weird. Yeah, even when Peyton left.
At first, everybody's like, it looks weird, and until they
until they start doing really well, and you're like, okay,
(19:59):
you know, but it's we'll see. Like I selfishly, I
would like to see him retire a Patriot um and
and finishes. On some level, I would too. Legitimately, I
just think it looks. I think those weird last couple
of Michael Jordan's I guess probably is the number one
example of man, what happened? Why do you wear that
(20:19):
turquoise uniform? Nobody brings that up though when it comes
to Jordan, you always see him in his bull stuff.
Well here's the thing, and I think that you and
I have. Yeah, well, in fact, we did. Go unless
you're not good. See, if you go somewhere and you're
not good, it's different. If you go somewhere and you're
good and the team's good, then that's that's a different.
But like we talked about the last if Jordan went
(20:40):
to that other team and was scoring forty five points
a game and they were in the playoffs and when
and we wouldn't have that, those doesn't make it right, Willie.
And that's that's it. I just said it wouldn't. It wouldn't.
It wouldn't. It wouldn't fizzle out the way it did. No,
I agree, but it was to me there was no
dignity in Brett Farve in Vikings fans buying that shirt.
(21:04):
They were both wrong, but within the division that was
gross business alright, business now, but also relationships. Here's another
one that I was thinking about last week. Would Tom
based on his relationship? I'm just we could talk about
whatever you won. This is interesting. It's interesting stuff. I'll
(21:29):
tell you one thing I don't want speaking of dignity there.
It was put out there a month or two ago.
You know what if Roethlisberger can't come back Tom Brady
for the Steelers. I don't want that. You can let
Tom know that. I think that too. I don't want that.
I don't want you know what I'd rather go. I'd
rather go to and fourteen. I'd rather I don't don't
(21:49):
play that game. I'm not interested. I'd rather go to
and fourteen than than win a super Bowl with Brady.
It wouldn't be right. It would be a super Bowl now,
it wouldn't It would to me, it wouldn't count. I
would ask, I don't want it. I'm not a Vikings fan.
I I I'm not that desperate that I would that.
I would root for the arch rival who tormented me
(22:11):
for fift twenty years now. He is a forty Niners
fan grew up that loved Montana. I asked Tom Brady once,
as a matter of fact, you have to win one game,
all the marbles, you know, fate of the planet hangs
in the balance. Who do you want to under center
for that game? Joe Montana or Tom Brady? He said, Oh,
I gotta go with Joe. I don't think he meant that, though.
(22:32):
I think he would take him. Don't you think he
would take himself over Montana. I know, but he's not
gonna he wouldn't say it, but deep down you know
what he thinks, right, Tom is always Tom. Yeah, that's right. Um,
would he set aside any existing relationship he has with
Jimmy G. Because if you want to talk about a
team that he I mean they win the Super Bowl,
(22:55):
the Niners. I know, it's hard to do the math
on what might have happened over the course of know
and and so it boils down to one that's fair,
you know, completely unfair to Jimmy G, who I still
consider to be a little undervalued with what he did
over the course of the season. Um, but he makes
(23:15):
one throw to Emmanuel Sanders, they win the Super Bowl.
Kyle Shanahan surely sees that Jimmy G floats two to
four balls every sixty minutes that are interceptible, and surely
he sees for a rental for a two year rental.
I could get that, Lombardi, if we bring twelve in.
Then the only sticking point is besides living across the country,
(23:38):
which is a which is a valid concern for Brady,
if you do that is are you really going to
do that to Jimmy G because you'd have to purge
Jimmy G to make that happen. Inhod we're talking about
a guy who the Patriots traded. That's right, that's making
a million dollars, that gave me the franchise guy who
played in a Super Bowl this year, benching him for
(24:02):
two years. So whatever he's making, we're just gonna shelf
that money. And signing Tom Brady is probably gonna make
thirties something millions, whatever the case is not the same,
it'll be about the same. And you got about seventy
million bucks and quarterback money for that one year. One
guy is sitting, one guy's playing, but you also have
the Lombardy. Well you gotta win it first. Well, but
(24:24):
they'll win it. But what about also for real? This
is the sort of fantasy football kind of nonsense. I know,
but it but it is fun. Who would legitimately um
our mutual pal Bill Simmons, who I know you were
on his show a year or so ago and he
was a fan of yours. Um He and I were
talking about this. What I mean, who says he's one
(24:45):
of his favorite phrases? Who who says? Who says no?
Who says no, Belichick calls up Kyle Shanahan or John
Lynch whatever and says Tom Brady for Jimmy G straight up,
who SA Isn't that forty three year old guy versus
(25:05):
a guy who obviously craft on down liked WHOA. I
would say this since they tried to work something out
to keep Jimmy G there, That's always a possibility if
we're talking fantasy, right, So I think, okay, Um, if
the forty Niners could find a guy in the draft
(25:31):
and have Tom Brady would have solid back up. I
don't think that's a loss either. I think both teams
are win. Um. It's just depending on if you want
to go through that whole quarterback process again with the
forty Niners, Like after two years, you gotta well not
at the two right when you get time, you gotta
start working on that next guy, whether it's in the
(25:53):
draft that can sit and learn, or got Jeremiah, it's
got Justin Herb falling all the way to the Patriots
and then snagging him at twenty three. I don't know
if he falls that far. I don't think he does.
But again, you want to play fantasy, that's a fun one.
I don't know if he falls, but that would be good.
And okay, last thing about Brady and then we'll quickly
(26:15):
keep it with you about some other stuff. Um is
um again, you say Tom always bets on Tom. With
Tom bet on Tom, fort three year old Tom in
the same division as Patrick Mahomes. And what is now
the new yard stick? Because that's the looming thing if
you think from a football plaser, winning record against Patrick Mahomes. Know,
but do you think Tom looks at it and I
(26:36):
want to be in a division with that guy. He
has a winning record against Patrick Mahomes and he won
his Super Bowl going through Patrick Mahomes. Alright, that's all
I'm saying. Tom's not scared of anybody like Patrick Mahomes,
not scared of anybody like these guys are fearless. These
guys are warriors. So when you say Pat Pat Mahomes
like he is the future, he's the guy. But when
(26:57):
you talk Tom Brady, he's like, let me add him,
like I'm gonad to head with anybody. Always says these Oh,
that guy is not afraid of anybody. Or do you
come across guys like, well, that guy's scared. You can
see it in some quarterbacks and it's not the quarterback
they're playing against us that defense, you know, but you
could see it like we knew certain quarterbacks we played against.
You get one good hit, we get to talk in
(27:18):
a little bit, get that pressure coming. You can see it,
ball coming out quick. He's not even looking at the
receiver's just getting the ball out. I'm just saying, like,
there's guys out there. Watch does that happen even this year?
Watch some of these quarterbacks. You think it, But does
that play the younger guys, because I think the mindset
is that guy gets happy feet when guys get closed
him and everything, but he's got to work out of
(27:40):
veteran guys like that. It's the older and young guys.
They get hit too many times and they start there
like I'm thirty eight. They come out quick. So these
these defenses are sophisticated where they're gonna take away the
same college air ray where the balls bop bop bop bop. Right,
they're gonna take away your number one option. They're gonna
make you pull that down. Okay, now we gotta go
through our progression. All we gotta tuck and run. We
(28:02):
gotta go So usually when you take away guys first,
the first option, if he's in that type of system,
he's tucking in and going because he doesn't have time,
or he's smaller in the pocket that pockets caving in. Now,
that's when that pressure starts to kick in. It's not
a lot of guys that are still comfortable poise that
can sit there and be like, oh, I gotta come
(28:22):
off of him. There he is, Oh, let me come back,
let me come back here and deliver. There's not a
lot of guys like that, trust me. So after a
couple of times when you got guys these these monsters
coming off the edge or up the middle, you're like
these you know, these Chris Jones and von Miller's and
and all these other guys coming off the edge and
delivering a blow. Aaron Donalds. You you you you that
(28:45):
that's what starts to trickle up a little bit more.
Trust me, guys, you've seen it in the big games.
Think about it. I'm not gonna mention any guys, but
you've seen it last year and the year before and
the biggest games. When that I should start to hit
the biggest game, Spaghetti, what games he talking about? Well,
we'll figure that out once you leave. We'll do we'll
(29:06):
we'll try to read the tea ball starts coming off
that back foot. They're just trying to get it out
of there. I don't see that returns me. Now see,
now we're back in the off season, and this is
the time where we should just assemble an NFL worthy defense.
I just want to see if I can drive off
an NFL offense for points. Doesn't have to be a
touch Now, let's do it. Start the ball at the forty,
(29:27):
my own forty. I think I could. I could drive
the team, you know, thirty yards and get a field
go yeah, yeah, me a quarterback. I mean you handing
the ball off every time, you gotta be like you
gotta have Derrick Henry or something. A lot. I'm gonna
I'm gonna hand the ball off a lot, Willie. But
at one point you're gonna do a flip pass. No, no, no, no,
we don't need we don't need the nonsense. We don't
(29:50):
need the gadget tree that's selling out. That's that's not
what I'm about. That's one of their players that sweet
passed that little point. They just dumping off the deepo
Samuel boot I'm old school. I don't do that new
fangled jive. I'm gonna, I'm gonna look, I'm gonna, i'm gonna,
I'm gonna run the ball. I'm gonna run the ball.
I'm gonna run the ball. But then my number one receiver,
this is the one, this is the one. I'm gonna
(30:10):
give him the signal then play action bang. You know,
one time I get something like um, hey, uh speaking
of of you mentioned the combine and um, A quick
question for you about that is, Isaiah Simmons, You're you're
legitimately I do cite you. I always say Cam Newton
(30:33):
is the number one specimen I've ever seen uh as
a football player. And when you stand next to you're like,
oh yeah, yeah, you're the You're the biggest dude on
the field. I guess, um, but I always sight like
Willie mcguinnis is a site to behold if you're in
his company, Like, that's a that is a big dude. Um.
Who Isaiah Simmons is a guy who is is sort
(30:55):
of capable. It looks like to be the next Derwin
James type. How hard is that to do? Because of
the bill that it's it's like that in between size.
Do you remember David Fulcher or you two young or
Steve Atwater, those guys who are like they've built like
linebackers at Water. At Water was a beast at safety,
and he does look like a linebacker can run. I
(31:16):
will say this, Um, but at Water played safety in college, correct.
I you know what? I talked him about it a
couple of years ago. I don't remember exactly what the
split was. I think he I think he had played
more safety than than than a linebacker. So Isaiah Um,
everybody wants to put him saying That's what I'm asking
(31:37):
is everybody's like, why do you do the hybrid stuff? Why? Why?
Why would a professional evaluator asked me or ask anybody
what do I do with him? I have a problem
with that, Like the number one thing you want to
do with guys that can affect every single play. If
he's a linebacker, why would I want to put him
at safety? Now, if there's some strange defense that I
(31:59):
want to throw people off and put him as safety
for to do something, Okay, that's great, I'm putting him
in a box. He's a linebacker. Now we know he
can line up in the Star. He can line up
outside and cover. He can do all those different things.
He's covering tight ends, he's covering backs. I'm not putting
him against the riquee. I'm not putting them against Keenan Allen.
I'm not putting against some of these receivers he like.
(32:22):
It's good. He did that in college. These guys are
around him in the league, so it's not the same.
And that's we're playing zone. Okay, I want him in
a box. If he's that fast, then he can cover
the tight ends, running backs, if they stay in the block,
he can rush because we know he can rush if
they run the ball. Is he a willing tackler? Does
(32:43):
he want to come up and play that line of scrimmage?
That's the question about him. Is he physical? Does he
want to play the line of scrimmage? Because if I'm
playing against the forty Niners, guess what, you gotta play
the run. If you're playing against the Ravens, you gotta
play the run. If you're playing against Seattle, you gotta
(33:04):
play the run. And I can go on and on
and on Tennessee, bring it, bring your lunch. We're not
gonna throw the ball fifty times a game. Jimmy g
Jimmy in the playoffs only throw the ball six times
in two games. You gotta play the run until you
can stop it. So if this kid is as advertised,
(33:26):
we know about all the coverage stuff, and we're gonna
use him and that, of course, but we're also going
to use him to affect the pocket more than anything.
Get after the quarterback, play the run, cover, go out
and cover. I'm not gonna waste him by putting the
mass safety because now I can scheme against him being
(33:47):
off the ball. He doesn't affect the play every play
from back there. He just doesn't. It is a different
era because, yes, along with that Water, there was also
David Fulcher, who was I mean nearly that big too
the water as a safety like he came into the
league as his safety. We didn't we didn't question, oh,
should we put him at linebacker? Did he hit like
a linebacker? Hell yeah, they're Ronnie Lott hit like a linebacker,
(34:10):
Hell yeah, there, Ronnie Harrison hit like a linebacker. Hell yeah,
that's just that's just one of the qualities they had.
They hit like linebackers. So I can bring those guys
in the box when we when we got covered three
or something, and we know that they can play like
a hybrid linebacker like a Derwin James right, like the
(34:30):
Seattle Seahawks, Uh Chancellor, like a guy like that that
we can play in a box that's a force. So
that's just one of his qualities. But these guys are safeties.
So I think with him, he's a linebacker, but I
won't if I take him out of the box and
put him at safety. He like, I'm not gonna take
full advantage of all his all his skills. That's all
(34:53):
I'm saying. Um A couple more things I mentioned Cam
Newton and the awe that he evoked. Send other professional
football players. Um Tyreek Hill speed, Um Lamar Jackson speed
comes to mind. You know, Rashan Evans just a week
ago sat here and I was talking about It's like
there's something that stands out, Like I've seen a lot
(35:14):
of fast guys. There's quickness. What if there was one,
if there were four somewhere in that range, is there
a single physical aspect of of one guy like oh,
Kyle Long. I was just talking about Aaron Rodgers arm
that when you see that thing in person, for the
first time, you're like, WHOA that thing is on a
(35:35):
different level. Is there another thing? Is you know Durrell
Reeve's jam anything like that? That's like that one thing.
I've never seen anything like that. Uh. I think when
you talk and depending on what position anything whatever, it
is like get off like a like a defensive n
or outside linebacker like a Derek Thomas cat quick, get
(35:57):
off like a Von Miller cat quick, get off inside
Aaron Donald like he's so explosive. Those type of things,
quickness and an explosion, Like you gotta have the two together.
You could be quick and soft and get and get
punched up in jam, right, But if you're quick and
you're strong, and you're explosive in your hands are violent.
(36:19):
I think those things are the intangibles that separate the
greats from just the goods in the okas. So you
name a couple of different positions, like for a dB,
does he have ketchup speed? If you get beat off
the ball, can you catch up to the guy like
the Dion Sanders of the world. Like those type of
guys the ketchup speed where it doesn't really matter what
(36:41):
happens at the line. Like I know, if the balls
in there, I'm gonna track it, track the ball and
probably come down with the ball and make up big play,
you know what I mean. Or like a Luke Kickley okay,
who was recently retired but one of the best at
the game, and identifying what the player is digesting boom
getting to the play, Like right now he's gonna read
the formation and time the ball gets to where he
(37:01):
needs to be, he's there meeting the ball, taking or
intercepting the ball or making a big hit because he
digests the information and processes is so fast that he's
able to make those type plays. So I think those
little intangibles from the defensive side of the ball um
make you special and separates you from other players. That's
a you know, the one that I threw out that
(37:23):
really is the hardest to fathom for for me, and
I think for a lot of fans, is that Darrell Reeves.
It's like he's I mean, he was a physical specimen
in in certain regards. But the thing, more than anything
else is like I would ask guys all the time,
what is it. Why is Darrell Reeves just a shutdown guy?
And they would just say, because you can't get by
him when the ball is snapped, he just man handles you.
(37:45):
I'm like, really, that just happens every week and there's
just no whipping him because he would just put his
hands on you and just stop it. I think with him, like,
first of all, he like leverage. I wouldn't say it
was the strongest, you know, defensive back or whatever, but
he le rich. His footwork is understanding of routes, understanding
if you're in a certain position, what kind of route
(38:07):
you can run when you're able to run taken out
away his football i Q. And knowing when the jam
not over being over aggressive because if you'd be over aggressive,
you can miss and get beat. Um and being able
like just instincts. Those are other things like you just
can't say, hey, I'm gonna draft you and give you
(38:27):
some instincts. You can't do that. You know, certain players
possessed that ed Re possessed that, like Edvery was one
of the best. Who, um, who do you think will
catch more passes? Um, Mike Evans or Chris Godwin from
Tom Brady? No, man, that's crazy. If Tom Brady is there,
you're talking about Tampa Bay. He could possibly go there
to Tampa st Petey. That's another hen is he gonna
(38:50):
like that pirate ship? I don't know. It's cheesy. It's cheesy,
but you'll hear it a lot of Tom the sort
of guy that would be like, I need to see
the uniforms, what these new MPI uniforms are gonna look like?
Before I can sign here. I can't wear something ridiculous
in my final days. He won't care. I would consider
that he's a handsome man. I would be like, don't
diminish my looks in the twilight of my career with
(39:12):
some ridiculous get up. You know the outfit too, you
know what? That's what I struggle with. See, they're certain
now I've seen you dressing certain. With James Jones in particular,
he wears certain things. I'm like, you look good in that,
And if I wore that, people would point and laugh.
But somehow you look you would look better. But I'm
glad you a little humility there. I'm I'm very humble, Willie.
(39:34):
Don't you find that to be the case? All right, Um,
all right, that's it Willie McGinn. It's always a pleasure
when he comes in for a visit here. It's too long.
It takes too long, Willy. You know, we gotta we
gotta make I don't have to only talk about Tom Brady.
It's interesting. Now you gotta conversation. Do you want to
talk about other stuff? I'll come back. How about that?
(39:55):
All right? Come back at at your convenience, at your leisure. Well,
we'll come back. We could maybe we get Tom we'll
we'll put him in all the outfits you know were Oh,
you're right, we're gonna skip Tom. Right, you're right, anything
but the next time Willie comes in, Spaghetti, that's on you.
Anything but Tom Brady. My rundown was all full of
(40:16):
other stuff. Besides, we could talk about USC. I want
to talk about the state of USC football. You don't
want to talk about that worst worst recruiting class in
the in the whole conferen Oregon stayed as a better
recruiting classy. Yeah, there he goes everybody number fifty five
(40:36):
from the Cleveland Browns and beyond the great Willie McGinnis. Everyone.
Oh yeah, you're listening to Dave Dad the shack. Did
he seem upset there? Spaghetti? The USC dig a little bit.
I think that's the wrong guy to get upset. You
(40:58):
think Willie beats me in a fight. I do too,
So there you go. More more humility from Damna shack Um.
What all right, let's read the tea leaves now here.
That's the third time I've used that phrase too much
Corolla in my in my years and in my life apparently.
But let's read the tea leaves here about Tom Brady.
What do we think, spaghetts? What do you take away
(41:20):
from that? I think now I don't know what the thing? Well, first,
a little quickly, are you upset about the fact that
we did a pod at least a week, if not
two weeks before the rest of the national media have
picked up on this San Francisco thing that you've brought up?
Because you see that's makeaways again. Today I read something
(41:40):
about that and I and I see people like to
seed in their little rite ups, like as I said
a month ago, I like to do that too, to
make it clear where I started it. But I see
no evidence of anybody having brought that up. I think
the first one I saw was Dion and then today
looks like NBC Sports Boston. Tom Curran went on Matt
Dog Radio and said that he believes that chatter is real,
(42:03):
so it looks like the third person who is said this, Okay,
let's again, let's break it down. Chargers Willie seems to
think are in play. He thinks, but he also said
that's across the country. But if the Chargers are in play,
and then obviously so two are the Niners, then the
question becomes, what do you do about Jimmy G. You
(42:26):
would have to purge him in some way, So then, legitimately, Willie,
I mean, I said it was fantasy as well, but
could you really trade Jimmy G. Wouldn't that be the
craziest thing. What have that happened? What if the Patriots
traded back to get Jimmy G. I don't I don't
buy that. I don't buy it either, But it would
be the equivalent of Montana and Steve Young. I still
(42:49):
don't know it would be would be weirder than that,
even though because yeah, Steve Young's a Hall of Famer,
Jimmy G isn't track into the Hall of Fame. At
this point, I ultimately still believe that Briany has just
pushed this to get the most money out of out
of the Patriots, And I still think that they They're
not dumb, Like I don't believe this whole There's like
were rumors coming up to some people in the Patriots
(43:10):
organization believe that they have to do a full rebuild.
They're gonna start pawning off pieces. I don't I understand it.
Like you said, they were almost a two seat away.
You know they could they've beat good teams. This this
past season doesn't make any I mean it's literally, it's
literally can be boiled down to one play. If you know,
Gilmore knocks down a single ball thrown to Parker in
(43:32):
that final drive, knocks down the one pass, then the
you know, the Patriots are thirteen and three in the
two seed. And I'm telling you, man, I don't know
what would have happened if the Patriots go to k C.
But I do know that the Ravens would have beaten
the Texans in Baltimore in the divisional round, and therefore
(43:52):
you would have had that Ravens team that I feel
like needed to get over. I mean that it is
crazy how that I can never get a or how
those single plays can completely impact the trajectory not of
a team, but the way an entire season then shakes
out and then what happens in the next five to
ten years because of that stuff. I mean, really, if
(44:15):
the if the Ravens had vanquished the Chiefs, let's say,
or maybe even the week before Brady gets him, what's
the conversation now. I mean, obviously it's wildly different. Jordan's
Love wouldn't be created. I mean as a complete wild
offshoot of that. Jordan's Love is now creeping up the
board because everybody sees the next Pactor Mahomes. But if
Patrick Mahomes didn't come up big against the Ravens in
(44:38):
the title game, people would be looking for Lamar Jackson.
And you think Taysom Hill is hot now or was
flow or at least a few weeks ago people were
talking about that. People would be at the combine and
be on talking about how do we get the next
Lamar Jackson. That's just a side note to the way
we would regard Andrew Reid and Patrick Mahomes and who
knows Lamar Jackson and John Harbaugh might have to Lombard
(45:00):
ease and therefore be a virtual lock to make the
Hall of Fame himself at this point. Fascinating stuff. So
what your guest is Patriots. I think the only way
he leaves the Patriots is if there's a real issue
between Brady, Belichick, and Craft, Like there's just not a
good relationship between those three guys. Besides that, I was
looking up their cash says they have they're gonna have
like in cash phase range. I know DJ said that
(45:23):
that they would take Justin Herbert if he's slid in
the draft. But if you have a pick in the
early twenties, there's a ton of good receivers in this draft,
just take one of those guys to help Brady out.
Like Willie said, you know forever ago about give Tom
all the pieces he could possibly need. Um they're all
I'll be healthy, and I know they miss some guys
last year. They have a bunch of good running backs.
It's like he does not make any sense for him
to go to a new team to try it again
(45:44):
when you're in an easy in a very very winnable division,
depending on what you feel about the Bills. So it
does not make any sense football wise to leave that team.
It's funny because you say, because he Willie said, Tom
bets on Tom. Tom's not afraid of anybody. But again,
I always talk about out um our perception of of
(46:04):
Tom Brady and what his legacy is, and some scoff
at all, Why would he care about that because he's Tom,
because clearly he cares about how he's perceived in the
history of pro football. Um, maybe I wonder if you
do the math on, like, I should get out of
this division now because here comes the Dolphins. They're gonna
(46:25):
be better, The Bills are definitely going to be good,
and the Jets might even be good. Better get out now,
and then I leave as just being the all time
owner of the a f C East. Yeah, but I
feel like that if he went to like the Raiders
are a team always everyone's bringing up, It's like I'd
rather go or rather still be a Patriot in the
a f C East verse the Bills, who may be
(46:48):
you know, back to back year playoff team, or in
the Jets and Dolphins are you know, on the rise,
I guess, versus the Chiefs, who are just you know,
they won the Super Bowl or you know it's another
division that's uh, you go. But if you come up
with it. But if you come up short in the
Chiefs division, at least you say, well, they're the reigning
super sure, but at least but those are those are
a stone cold, lock hard opponent to be to me,
(47:10):
would not shock me if the Pats still, you know,
only lost let's say one or two games out of
the anf C s. I am ruling out the Raiders
right now. That's not gonna happen. Did you see Willie's
reaction to that? I mean, yeah, I don't. I don't
think Willie thinks that Tom is going anywhere though? Is
that really your takeaway? I just again, I don't think
(47:30):
it makes sense, all right, But I mean I thought
he was less He seemed less shure, definitely less sure.
But I think everyone because it's been there hasn't been
any leaks one of where the other there has been like,
but there's been a lot of weird leaks too. Did
anyone actually believe the Giants were in on time? But
I will say I don't feel like whoever does get
(47:51):
Tom Brady if you're if you're the Chargers. This idea
of let's do two things at one time, let's serve
two masters. Let's bring in the goat and also groom
his success or whether it's justin Herbert or otherwise, that
makes no sense. If you're the Chargers and you signed
Tom Brady, you draft a piece to help Tom Brady,
you draft an offensive lineman Beckon right, that's the pick,
(48:15):
or just somebody like that online. I mean the SiNW
trade didn't work out though they wanted to. Maybe you
go take another receiver. So I'm talking about the Chargers.
Oh sorry, yeah, but I'm saying, yes, the Charges you
need to pick. Yes, I mean they will. They may
lose Melvin gor and they may go running back, or
I mean they have holes as well. That's that's my
point ultimately about the pages that they have to me.
Out of the other teams, you can go to the
(48:36):
least amount of holes, the best staff in place, and
the easiest division. The other one is too. It's just
the one that sounds the weirdest to me of them
all is Tampa Bay because Tampa Bay, um before you
were alive. They came into existence. But my brain, they
still seem like a a new team to me that
(48:58):
they still resonate on that level to me because my
earliest football memories include like Tampa Bay finally good after
all these years. They've only been in the league for
five years at that point. But people are like, finally
the long suffering Bucks fans have a winner. As they
made the playoffs and Doug Williams and the cream Sickles
and all that um, and they did well. It just
(49:19):
sounds weird, and I legitimately think part of it in
my brain has to do with the bad uniforms and
the pirate chip in the end zone, and that seems
somehow undignified to me for Tom Brady to go and
play in that situation. But if you remove all that,
if they had simple uniforms and uh and all that
sort of thing from a football perspective, with I mean
(49:42):
just the past catchers they have and then Bruce Arians,
who gets the best out of every quarterback who he's
ever coached, that makes a ton of sense to me. Yeah,
I mean, Arians has been pretty vocal about getting a
replacement in for uh, for jam as their defense is
really good last year they have you know, too great receivers.
They drafted a Titan you know, way too early, that
(50:04):
uh who everyone thought could be a weapon. So it
would make sense for Tom Ready to have a team
like that. It's actually almost like, uh, similar situation to
what the Patriots used to be, you know, a team
with weapons good to even but you know, I don't,
I just can't. I don't imagine it. And also I
always talk about the action and reaction that you get
within the division when one team is doing something then
(50:25):
another team. When you know, five years ago, six years ago,
when Aaron Rodgers was tormenting the rest of the NFC North,
you saw the other teams in the division start to
build their defenses specifically to stop Aaron Rodgers. I wonder
if Tom Brady announced in three weeks, yeah, I'm going
to Tampa, if Carolina would be like, ah, forget it,
let's not bring camp back. Then just rebuild it because
(50:47):
we're not gonna win the division anyway. And then you
have old man Drew Brees, and then you have the Falcons,
who are intriguing but certainly not a lock to rebound
fully in. That's a good situation. I'm get down from
that perspective because Tom Brady doesn't want to get in barrassed.
He doesn't want to go somewhere and go eight and eight.
He wants to win the division and make a Super
(51:08):
Bowl run. I think the only team that he could
go to without having any flak is if he goes
to San Francisco because he could say it's a homecoming
and he wants to end his career playing in the
place where then he's got to be perceived as having
pushed out Jimmy g which and he'll get a bad
guys stink on him for doing that, right, which is
why nothing else makes sense. There's no way Tom Brady,
who is now a brand, could be like, well, I
(51:30):
think going to Tampa Bay is a move, and there's
no I'm trying to think eve in terms of his
his reasoning. You can't say why it's smart to leave
New England for Tampa. But you can't say why it's
smart to leave New England for whether it was Vegas
or if it's Los Angeles or if it's Indianapolis. To me,
there's just no team that makes sense in terms of
a pr move beside San Francisco. That but if you
want if you want publicity for something, if you say
(51:52):
the owner, or if there's a business, a burgeoning business
that bears your name, then you might be incentive to
the Southern California, especially if that is a um a
holistic rehab type center like TB twelve is. If you
land that where's the epicenter of um that twenty one
(52:13):
century sort of doctor in more than Southern California is
in these United States. That makes a lot of sense.
Tom Brady takes his brand to Southern California, that makes
a lot of sense to me. If he is okay
with going eight and eight and having a mediocre Nate
you think he goes eight and a with the Chargers,
I wouldn't be Are you crazy? I do not think
(52:35):
that's a good team with him there at all. Wait
a minute, Well, that's a great one to leave on them.
We'll debate that later in the week. There's just no
put in that what I'm gonna talk about that box.
I think he'd be great in the Bucks or the Colts,
But I mean, I don't see that. But they've already
said the cult of artists, and that's fine. But in
terms of like teams that have been rumored, those make
more sense in terms of football and winning games, Like
(52:57):
what are you talking about if they franchise Tag Hunter Henry?
What are you talking that that's the best trio of
pass catchers? Off the top of my head, I think
that you could throw out in football. Maybe just that
I just don't trust the Chargers. Maybe I don't, you know,
everyone had them very very high last year and they
fell apart. And Tom Tom was okay last year. He wasn't,
you know, obviously not Brady of Old. But I don't know,
(53:19):
and I don't know Mike Williams, Keenan Allen and Hunter Henry.
I'm sure people will let me know that I'm crazy
to say that. I'm obviously I must be forgetting somebody
out there. I guess Travis Kelsey, Tyree Hill, Sammy Watkins
if he goes back, would be a superhero anyway. You
get my point. That's a I think that on offense,
if they can address the offensive line a little bit.
(53:41):
I don't know, man, you need to get a left tackle,
but there are several good options, apparently according to Daniel
Jeremiah coming out of Indianapolis. All Right, that's it. Let's
will continue to debate that um later in the week.
In the meantime, though, um Eddie spaghetti, good stuff from you,
Number fifty five, Willia mc ginnis. Always insightful, always delightful,
(54:02):
and always good smelling, like I said at the top
of the show, and hopefully we'll get him back sooner
rather than later. Spaghetti, stay on that hold him to it.
Off season is here, after all, in the off season
is Damni sick season. So with that being said, we'll
keep It's with you a little later in the week.
Until then, thanks so much, football fans, it's been a
thin slice of heaven.
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