July 25, 2023 • 25 mins
Mike and Wes discuss the arrival of training camp, examining the starting competitions at safety (2:14) and right tackle (8:53), along with other storylines involving the young pass-catchers (11:08), preseason playing time (17:30), and the reliance on second-year players on both sides of the ball (23:14).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of Packers Unscripted
from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford. He is
my trusted colleague Weston Hodkowitz. We're still coming to you
from disparate locations at lambeau Field. Hopefully sooner than later
we will get back to normal with the setup in
(00:27):
the studio and all that. But that's a discussion for
another day because Wes. Today is the day before the
first practice of Packers Training Camp. So my first question
to you is are you ready for this?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah? Yeah, Michael, Because the fun thing about this, because
I've had so many people, actually was walking out of
the building with one of our it gurus, Tony Smith
a couple of days ago, and you know, he asked
me about like everyone asks, like, hey, what do you
think of the team? You know, what do you think
about training camp coming up? And the answer I've been
giving anybody, whether it's you and I discussing it or
(01:02):
whether it's inbox, is I'm just excited for the unknown.
And yeah, there's a lot of trials and tribulation that
are gonna come with that. There's gonna be ups and
downs that'll come with that. But at the end of
the day. I've never covered a situation like this before,
and I thought it was very apropos that Matt Lafleur
and his pre training camp presser kind of one of
(01:25):
his last comments was, yeah, in a lot of ways,
I feel like this is my first year again, Like, yeah,
it's the same offense. They're not reinventing the wheel now
at Jordan Love under center, but you are preparing a
new quarterback for your scheme and to actually implement it
on a down out play, play by play basis. And
I think that's very exciting. So yes, am I ready?
I'd better be ready because it's right here in front
(01:47):
of us now.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes, it is. The first practice of training camp is
slated for Wednesday morning at Rainychki Field. It's gonna be hot,
it's gonna be muggy. There's gonna be a lot of
fans around.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Uh, well, you wear your tank top for this one,
your packers tank top?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
At my tank top? No, I might. I might stick
with a uh, stick with with a T shirt and
then another one to change into after I sweat through
the first one. Yeah, but we'll uh, we shall see
lots of stuff to h to pay attention here as
training camp gets going, with the caveat that there is
a ramp up period. The pads are not going to
(02:22):
go on for a few days. Things the first few
days still going to feel a little bit like, uh,
you know, glorified. OTA's just a bigger crowd and and
whatnot in attendance. But but the first couple of things
that come to mind for me, aside from the quarterback
Jordan Love and and and Matt Lafleur did mention also
earlier on Tuesday, about the unknown with with regard to
(02:45):
just where things are going to go with this this
quarterback transition. There is a lot of unknown that everybody
has to work through, players, coaches. But the Packers are
heading into this training camp with what appear, at least
in my eyes to be too open starting positions. And
I'm talking about one on the defensive side of the
ball at safety and the other one on the offensive
(03:06):
side at right tackle. Based on what we saw during
OTA's and mini camp in the spring, those are two
positions that appear to be fairly open in terms of,
you know, how things are going to shake out with
the starting lineup come week one. And I think those
are two spots to definitely keep an eye on here.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Can I kind of tap into your memory bank a
little bit, because you obviously have had a couple of
years on me in terms of covering this football team,
and I want to think, I want to ask you
if you think this is a if this is a
ripe comparison as far as safety is concerned. In some
ways now, I was more of the fan, the youngster
back then as far as how I watched the football team.
But this kind of reminds me of that transition that
(03:47):
the Packers sort of underwent when Mike McCarthy sort of
started and the Packers were trying to figure out what
their combination is going to be. Ultimately, Atari bigb ended
up being one of the answers there. And then obviously,
you know Nick Collins grew into becoming a franchise safety.
But you know, markwan Manuel was signed, the Packers had
a bunch of different guys that they had competing for that.
That's what this feels like right now with Green Bay
(04:08):
because while Darnell Savage is the returner, he's the guy
that's the former first round pick, the fifth year veteran,
the one that I would expect to be in that
starting eleven come week one, the packers are really doing
a full assessment on that entire position and what it's
going to be beyond twenty twenty three. And to me,
as I've said before, with the position of safety itself
(04:28):
in the current the present day, I look at whoever's
going to be the best compliment to Darnell Savage, whoever's
going to be the one that gets the most out
of him back there? Is the guy that I want
to see emerge in that spot because I think when
you look at Rudy Ford, when you look at Tarvarius More,
that list just keeps going on going, right. I mean,
you have John Owens is now in that competition. Dalan
(04:49):
Levitt has been one of the probably the most veteran
players on this roster, and then obviously in his gains,
I think is a guy that's shown some promise. But
who's going to be the one that gets that spot?
Because I feel like safety is one of those positions
you don't want to see a platoon. You want to
see them build a one two combination of battery, if
you will. The pitcher and catcher of those two guys
(05:10):
working back there and I think when you look at
Savage's history, that's the thing that has worked the best
for him when you have that familiarity, when you know
what the assignments are, and ultimately being able to get
the most out of the guy that the Packers really
invested a lot into four years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, I think this, I think, you know, six is
somewhat an apt comparison. I'd also maybe look in some
respects at twenty thirteen when the Packers knew they had
Morgan Burnett in one spot, but the other spot was
kind of wide open. I think the biggest difference there,
and maybe why it's a little bit more like six,
(05:45):
is that the guys that we've seen at the top
of the competition, at least the ones that we saw
rotating in with Savage with the first defense during the
spring Rudy Ford, Jonathan Owens, Tarvarius Moore put him in
whatever order you want to right now. But those three
guys have a lot more NFL experience than the guys
(06:07):
had a decade ago when the Packers were in this
spot where they knew they had Morgan Burnett, but they
didn't know who the other guy was going to be. Obviously,
then later on down the road, the first round draft
pick was spent on Haha Clinton Dix. But the competition
this time around seems to be with experienced players and
it's just a matter of who's who's going to jump
(06:27):
up and take it and run. Rudy Ford has the
most experienced in the Packers system. Jonathan Owens was a
full time seventeen game starter a year ago for the
Houston Texans, and Tarvarius Moore was a half season starter
for the San Francisco forty nine Ers a pretty darn
good defense just a couple of years back, but then
(06:49):
had an injury that cost him his entire twenty twenty
one season before he came back and resumed a prominent
special teams role for San Francisco last year. So none
of these guys are brand new to the NFL in
that respect, And even when you talk about dal Levitt,
Innis Gains, other guys we may see, you know, fight
(07:09):
for this spot as well, so experience experiences there and
the Packers, you know, new secondary coach passinging coordinator Greg Williams,
along with Ryan Downard, along with Joe Berry, the defensive coordinator,
they're going to have to decide, you know, what is
that best combination in the back end there as the
(07:29):
defense makes this transition from Adrian Amos.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, and I'd be remiss, you know. Also to mention
Anthony Johnson, the Packers did use a draft pick on
that pack as well. He is going to be a
part of this because it is about who's going to start.
But one of the other reasons the Packers have all
these prospects, have all these different various players is because
of what they potentially add to special teams as well.
When you mentioned Tarvarius More, yeah, he had a couple
(07:52):
cups of coffee with the defense there in San Francisco,
but he largely, you know, hung on as long as
he did with the forty nine ers because of what
he did on special teams. You look at Rudy Ford.
I think one of the things that Rudy came to
Green Bay, the biggest chip on his shoulder was Yeah,
I know I'm an exceptional flyer. I know I'm an
exceptional coverage player on special teams. I've been looking for
the opportunity to prove that I can be a starter
in this league and stay a starter. And then Jonathan Owens,
(08:15):
I don't know. You'd have to probably search pretty long
on you know, Football Database or NFL Reference and all
these websites to find someone that has traveled such a
long road to become a one year every game starter,
playing almost a thousand snaps and then this offseason trying
to find another opportunity for himself that that chip on
(08:36):
his shoulder remains very large. So when you talk about
all these position battles, there's probably other ones that are
going to be maybe more important or things that the
average fan are going to think about more. But in
terms of the stakes, I don't know if there's anyone
that is the higher. The stakes are higher than what's
available for the Packers and these young safeties on this team,
and the.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Spot on the offensive side of the ball that appears
wide open as training campigins for the Packers is right tackle,
shaping up to be based on what we saw in
the spring again to be a competition between the incumbent
yosh Neimen and the second year pro Zach Tom a
fourth round draft pick out of Wake Forest last year
(09:16):
who proved as a rookie that he could jump in
fill in at various spots, including left tackle for David
Bakhtiari in a pinch. This will be interesting, West because
you're talking about two very different body types. But also
yosh Naimen has a heck of a lot of experience,
Zach Tom not quite so much in that regard, and
one of those things that could take multiple preseason games
(09:39):
to decide, Oh, who's going to be lining up there
in Week one.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, certainly the Packers want to have us starting five
figured out, but you and I have covered enough football
to understand that even in the optimum situations like twenty fourteen,
there was still one game where Brian Blogo wasn't able
to play right, and a lot of times there are
injuries that create domino effects. That's what's kind of funny
to me about this competition right now, because we're whether
or not Zach Tom prevails or Yashneiman prevails. Packers are
(10:03):
going to need both of these guys this year. Whoever
isn't starting is probably the next man up with a
domino effect on the rest of the offensive line regardless.
But to your point, the most exciting part of it
is you have a guy in Zach Tom that I
think everybody agrees probably the better prospect in terms of
the intangibles, right three year starter in college, fourth round pick.
I love everything I saw from him and how he
(10:25):
was able to hit the ground running. In a lesser
year where the Packers are more up against it in
terms of their roster, probably would have started more. It
was just an act circumstance of injuries and different things
that that sort of enabled him to move around as
much as he did. But in some years I could
see him being a guy that would plug in at
one spot and that's your starter. Then you got Yashneiman,
who's taken the long road to this spot. Six foot seven,
(10:48):
three hundred and fourteen pounds. This is how you draw
these guys up. But it took time for him to
use that body type and showed that he could be
a game in and game out starter. It is going
to be a very intriguing battle to watch, But I
think the fun thing for the Green Bay Packers is
it's a good position to be in and regardless, you're
probably gonna need both of these guys to get through
a full season.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, no question about it. And several other storylines for
us to pay attention to, for all the fans to
watch here when training camp gets going. I do have
a story on the website, five storylines as a Packers
open training camp, but I'm gonna throw a few more
at you, Wes, and I'll let you talk about whatever
you want to. There's a rookie kicker who's looking to
take over for the franchisees all time leading scorer. We'll
(11:29):
be waiting to see when Rashaan Gary and or Eric
Stokes is able to come back. By all accounts, everything
with their rehab, different rehab processes, but things are going well.
No timeline promised in terms of when those guys might
come off the pup list physically unable to perform. And
(11:50):
then obviously, you know the getting up to speed, getting
on the same page, whatever you want to call it,
all the young pass catchers with the new quarterback, you've
got the second and your receivers, and Watson and Dobbs,
you have the rookie tight ends in Musgrave and Craft.
There's a lot going on here with this Packers team
on both sides of the ball. And you know, it
(12:12):
feels like, even though training camp is just getting started,
it feels like that game in Week one is right
around the corner.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It does Mike. And the part that I find most
interesting is looking at those pass catchers, those skill position
players that you talked about, because kind of like the
tackle situation, there might be a starter, there might be
someone that plays more snaps, there might be more packages
built around specific guys. But one of the points I
laid out an insider inbox this past week was that
(12:39):
wide receivers three through five I think are all going
to have roles on this team. I think the tight
ends probably all the way one through four are going
to have specific packages and niches that they're going to fill.
And frankly, I think there's even opportunity for an RB
three in this offense. I think you go back to
the construct of how Matt Lafleur originally wanted to build
this thing. I think there's an opportunity there for a
(12:59):
Tyler good Sintat, Patrick Taylor, lou Nicchols, somebody else to
get involved there with Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon, and
that multiplicity of options I think is what makes this
offense the most dangerous. People will talk about, well, you know,
Jordan Love and Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs, and certainly
that is going to be a foundational part of the
passing game. But it's about all these guys they've added
(13:21):
around them that I think is going to be the
most intriguing to me. Tight end, though, as Matt Lafleur illustrated,
it is more than just catching the ball. It's more
than just running seams. It's more than just about being
and having the fastest ten yards split like Muskrave had
at the combine. It's also about running offense, it's about blocking,
it's about understanding all the different nuances that go into
(13:42):
that position that maybe necessarily aren't something that fantasy football
owners are thinking about. That's the part that the Packers
are going to have to master, especially if Marcedes Lewis
doesn't return.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, and when, as you mentioned in talking about our
last topic about the Packers really needing everybody, I see
that very much much the same with with the tight
ends and the wide receivers, because even though you expect
because of where Luke Musgrave and Tucker Craft were drafted,
you expect them to be the future at tight end,
but Josiah Deguarre and Tyler Davis are going to be
(14:14):
needed in this group, particularly in the early part of
the season, as as those young guys get up to
speed and and and prove that they belong in the NFL.
You look at wide receiver, there's a lot of promise
with Samari Toure coming back his second year, you know,
showed some showed some things in the spring. I think
Jaden Reid as a second round draft pick, everybody expects
(14:35):
him to eventually, you know, get to the same type
of level that Christian Watson and Romeo Romeo Dobbs are
at in this offense. But Samarrii Toure is going to
have a spot. He's going to have a role and
and opportunity to, uh, you know, to make an impact
on this offense. And you know how it goes in
this league. If a guy who gets an opportunity seizes
(14:58):
it and starts to produce, it doesn't matter who's behind him.
The coaches are not just going to say, Okay, well
it's this guy's turn. Now. You know, you're ten catches
for one hundred and fifty yards in the first three
weeks of the season, We're just going to kick you
to the curb. It doesn't work like that. If you
if you sees an opportunity and you produce you can
start to establish yourself in this league. And I think
(15:19):
at both wide receiver and tight end the Packers have
young guys behind their younger guys. The opportunities are going
to be there and we'll just have to see what happens.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Here's where this gets fun too, right, Mike, because as
you were mentioning during our intro, well, it's you know,
you have the ramp up period, which in a lot
of ways looks like OTA's. Well, who wasn't here during
OTAs Jyr Alexander Russeul Douglas. When you talk about those
young receivers specifically, I think that's where the bar comes in.
That's where you get the litmus test for these young guys,
(15:49):
seeing how they stand up to that challenge. The fun
thing to me about this is if there wasn't a
Romeo Dobs this year, if there wasn't a Christian Watson,
and shoot, if there wasn't a Samari too Rae. If
you flip the script and go back to last year
and there was no Jaden Reid, I think people would
have been talking a lot more about Dantavian Wicks than
they did, just because there's all these young guys that
(16:10):
these headlines are going to be drawn about. Certainly, you
look at the physique of Christian Watson and everything that
Dobbs did last offseason coming back, those are going to
be people that you naturally sort of gravitate towards. But
I thought Dantavian Wicks looked exceptional during the off season
program and I'm excited to see how he does now
as he gets ready into training camp. Seven former NFL
draft picks mike all taken within the last two years,
(16:31):
helped make up this receiving corps, and it goes beyond
that as well when you look at some of the
guys that could be available for them. I mean, certainly
there's some undrafted dudes in this class that I thought
showed out a little bit during the off season program.
That is where it gets exciting for Green Bay and
also understanding that who is going to be the one
that helps and sort of develops that rapport with Jordan
(16:52):
Love in these practices while going up against the jyr
Alexanders and Rasoul Douglases. I think even during the ramp
up period, even before the pads come on, that's where
we're going to start to learn a lot more about
these young guys seeing when they are going up against
that type of competition.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
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(17:27):
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All right, Well, one of the questions that Matt Lafleur answered,
although he sort of didn't answer it either, understandably. So
everybody's wondering what is going to happen with regard to
the preseason playing time. How much is Jordan Love going
to play? How much are the starters going to play?
(17:48):
There's so many young guys and all that. Matt Lafuer said, Hey,
it's going to be a fluid situation. I think the
fact that the Packers are going to have a joint
practice with the Cincinnati Bengals when they're on the road
they're going to have a pair of joint practices with
the New England Patriots when New England comes to Green Bay.
I think a lot could hinge on just how the
(18:09):
coaches feel about what the guys are, what the young
guys in particular are getting out of those practices, and
where they are, including quarterback Jordan Love. As far as
then deciding, okay, how much should they play in the
preseason game? How much risk do you want to take? There?
One thing I will say, and I said this from
the beginning because people were asking, you know, way back
(18:31):
in February, how much is Jordan Love going to play
in the preseason if he takes over as a starting quarterback?
I think it mostly hinges on how much does Matt
Lafleur want to play the starting offensive line? Because no
offense to any of those other guys, but you're not
going to put Jordan Love out there in a preseason
game behind the number two offensive line. He's not going
(18:53):
to do that. So it's not just about how much
does Jordan Love need to play, but how much are
the offensive is the number one offensive line in front
of him going to play? All of that becomes, you know,
part of the puzzle fitting together. Just what is going
to happen with the preseason playing time when we get
a couple weeks down the road here.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, especially if the Cincinnati Bengals are lining up Trey Hendrickson,
that's a decision that green By Packers need to make
in that moment. The thing that's funny to me about
this process is that I think there was only one
year where this was actually a legitimate question. I think
it's become sort of a pop popular thing for me
to bring up. But twenty twenty one, excuse me, was
the one year where I thought this was actually a
(19:33):
real question in preseason because that year, regardless of what
they were going to do with Aaron Rodgers, I think
actually that offensive line did need to get some snaps
together in the preseason because you knew you weren't going
to get David Baktiari back and you had to figure
out what the plan of action was going to be
at that position. So we saw the first team starters
actually be out there in those first two preseason games.
But as you said, it comes back to our Elton
(19:56):
Jenkins and David baktier are going to be out there
in Cincinnati. Are they going to be out there against
New England. If they are, okay, let's see Jordan go
out there and maybe work a little bit. If they're not,
you are getting two practices against actual NFL competition guys
that do not look the same as your defense, and
I think there's a value in that. But their only
(20:16):
situation I think Green Bay needs to figure out is
when they travel to Cincinnati knowing whether or not Love
is going to play, because you only have one real
practice to figure that out. After that, maybe you can
start to us, you know, maybe make some judgments on
whether or not you think he needs to work. But
at the end of the day, the Packers, they schedule
these joint practices for a reason. They want to get
that work against other NFL competition, other NFL defensive coordinators.
(20:39):
And I'm sure based on how they feel getting through
Family Night probably will go a long way and determining
which course of action they take as they move into
the preseason.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, you want to get that work against other teams,
But where you have the opportunity to protect your players
and particularly the quarterbacks, and that's where there is a
lot of value, certainly for young quarterbacks particular and young
receivers and others on offense as well, that the packers
are going to try to take advantage of every opportunity
(21:08):
they have. There last thing I'll throw at you here, Wes,
before we go and get ready for Wednesday mornings opening practice.
Anything else that you that is on your radar that
you're going to be keeping an eye on in these
first couple of days of practice before we come back
for another show.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I always look at the special teams. I always look
at the coverage units. I mean, there's not a whole
lot to be drawn about that in the first week
or so, but as you go through it, that's where
you start to get some of those questions answered about
who could potentially be those those secondary guys, those those
guys that could end up making this roster as specialists.
When you see them start working on the first team units,
(21:46):
when you start seeing them build that familiarity, that actually
is sort of an glimpse into what the you know,
Rich Basaci and his coaches are thinking. But also I
think this is very important is seeing how the defense
comes together throughout this training camp. Beause last year, the
whole idea and the mantra of everybody was that this
is going to be a top five group. They're going
to be dominant. Look at how much success they're having
(22:07):
against Aaron Rodgers in this offense, and ultimately they got
off to a kind of a slow start. There are
going to be so many The defense is interesting right
because there are so many positions where everything's solidified. If
Devandre Campbell and Kwai Waraka are healthy, those are your
inside linebackers. They could play together for a thousand snaps
this season. You know, JayR Alexander, Rusoul Douglas and probably
(22:28):
Keishaw Nixon are going to be out there all the time.
We know what the rotation looks like at outside linebacker,
especially once Rashaun Gary's back. But defensive line, there's a
lot of question marks. You have Kenny Clark, who has
been a two time Pro Bowl player, and then you
have the rest of the room that has combined for
two NFL starts. Right now, you look at the questions
at safety right now, those are two big questions that
(22:51):
Green Bay needs to answer with their position groups during
this training camp and into the preseason. And I am
very interested to figure out what that is going to
be because the defense does have I expectations and regardless
of how they look in these training camp practices, it
is going to be about making sure when you step
on the field at Ford Field, excuse me, Soldier Field
in week one, this can be a group that can
(23:11):
be counted on and relied on here to help the
Packers set the tone.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, and I think I think the other piece to
that too is that the Packers may you know, every
year we talk about the second year jump, but you know,
players going from their rookie season to their second year.
This year, in particular, I think the Packers are counting
on that second year jump to play a major part
on both sides of the ball. When you look at Watson, Dobbs,
(23:37):
and Toure at wide receiver. We talked about Zach tom
possibly winning a spot on the offensive line or being
the next man up, being the sixth man, Kway Walker,
Devonte Wyatt. On defense, those guys going into their second seasons,
you know, Matt Lafleur talked about those guys not playing
with any hesitation anymore. They should know the playbook. They
(23:59):
you know, it's it's all out every snap. There isn't
there isn't as much thinking going on Brian Gudakunz mentioned
it's about it's about consistency. Yeah, anybody, a rookie anywhere,
anybody from a rookie to a fifth year guy can
flash in training camp and make a play here and there.
But these guys who are graduating from being rookies into
second year players, can they establish consistency? Can they do
(24:22):
it day in and day out. It's not just you know,
they make the headlines one day and then nobody's talking
about them again for another week. So those are the
things to watch for because this second year, that this
draft class from twenty twenty two, that is that's moving
into their their second season there, the Packers are going
to be counting on a lot of those guys to
make a big time impact in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah. And the other reason to focus on a too mike.
If the Packers didn't feel like DeVante White couldn't handle it,
if they felt like TJ. Slaton could have handled it,
they were not so far up against the salary cap
that they couldn't have brought in veteran help. They did this,
and they went the direction they went because they felt
like these are the guys we drafted We knew the
situation with Dean Lowery and jer and read in a
lot of these veterans, and we were confident in moving
(25:06):
forward with them now as the face of that defensive line.
It's a gamble, it's a risk always, but certainly the
Packers want to give these guys that opportunity. Same thing
at tight ends, same thing at receiver. You have young
guys that you've invested in. Now you want to see
those investments start to pay dividends. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Absolutely, they've got they've got to play. They've got they've
got to prove it. They have to play and prove
that they belong and the Packers are going to be
relying on some big time production out of young players
to make this twenty twenty three season of success. So
with that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition
of Packers Unscript. It'd be sure to follow all of
our coverage of the team, everything going on with training
(25:43):
camp at twenty twenty three. We will have it for
you on Packers dot com and Wes and I will
be back again in a couple of days. So for Wes,
I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody, and
we will see you next time,
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to another edition of Packers Unscripted
from Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford. He is
my trusted colleague Weston Hodkowitz. We're still coming to you
from disparate locations at lambeau Field. Hopefully sooner than later
we will get back to normal with the setup in
(00:27):
the studio and all that. But that's a discussion for
another day because Wes. Today is the day before the
first practice of Packers Training Camp. So my first question
to you is are you ready for this?
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah? Yeah, Michael, Because the fun thing about this, because
I've had so many people, actually was walking out of
the building with one of our it gurus, Tony Smith
a couple of days ago, and you know, he asked
me about like everyone asks, like, hey, what do you
think of the team? You know, what do you think
about training camp coming up? And the answer I've been
giving anybody, whether it's you and I discussing it or
(01:02):
whether it's inbox, is I'm just excited for the unknown.
And yeah, there's a lot of trials and tribulation that
are gonna come with that. There's gonna be ups and
downs that'll come with that. But at the end of
the day. I've never covered a situation like this before,
and I thought it was very apropos that Matt Lafleur
and his pre training camp presser kind of one of
(01:25):
his last comments was, yeah, in a lot of ways,
I feel like this is my first year again, Like, yeah,
it's the same offense. They're not reinventing the wheel now
at Jordan Love under center, but you are preparing a
new quarterback for your scheme and to actually implement it
on a down out play, play by play basis. And
I think that's very exciting. So yes, am I ready?
I'd better be ready because it's right here in front
(01:47):
of us now.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes, it is. The first practice of training camp is
slated for Wednesday morning at Rainychki Field. It's gonna be hot,
it's gonna be muggy. There's gonna be a lot of
fans around.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Uh, well, you wear your tank top for this one,
your packers tank top?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
At my tank top? No, I might. I might stick
with a uh, stick with with a T shirt and
then another one to change into after I sweat through
the first one. Yeah, but we'll uh, we shall see
lots of stuff to h to pay attention here as
training camp gets going, with the caveat that there is
a ramp up period. The pads are not going to
(02:22):
go on for a few days. Things the first few
days still going to feel a little bit like, uh,
you know, glorified. OTA's just a bigger crowd and and
whatnot in attendance. But but the first couple of things
that come to mind for me, aside from the quarterback
Jordan Love and and and Matt Lafleur did mention also
earlier on Tuesday, about the unknown with with regard to
(02:45):
just where things are going to go with this this
quarterback transition. There is a lot of unknown that everybody
has to work through, players, coaches. But the Packers are
heading into this training camp with what appear, at least
in my eyes to be too open starting positions. And
I'm talking about one on the defensive side of the
ball at safety and the other one on the offensive
(03:06):
side at right tackle. Based on what we saw during
OTA's and mini camp in the spring, those are two
positions that appear to be fairly open in terms of,
you know, how things are going to shake out with
the starting lineup come week one. And I think those
are two spots to definitely keep an eye on here.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Can I kind of tap into your memory bank a
little bit, because you obviously have had a couple of
years on me in terms of covering this football team,
and I want to think, I want to ask you
if you think this is a if this is a
ripe comparison as far as safety is concerned. In some
ways now, I was more of the fan, the youngster
back then as far as how I watched the football team.
But this kind of reminds me of that transition that
(03:47):
the Packers sort of underwent when Mike McCarthy sort of
started and the Packers were trying to figure out what
their combination is going to be. Ultimately, Atari bigb ended
up being one of the answers there. And then obviously,
you know Nick Collins grew into becoming a franchise safety.
But you know, markwan Manuel was signed, the Packers had
a bunch of different guys that they had competing for that.
That's what this feels like right now with Green Bay
(04:08):
because while Darnell Savage is the returner, he's the guy
that's the former first round pick, the fifth year veteran,
the one that I would expect to be in that
starting eleven come week one, the packers are really doing
a full assessment on that entire position and what it's
going to be beyond twenty twenty three. And to me,
as I've said before, with the position of safety itself
(04:28):
in the current the present day, I look at whoever's
going to be the best compliment to Darnell Savage, whoever's
going to be the one that gets the most out
of him back there? Is the guy that I want
to see emerge in that spot because I think when
you look at Rudy Ford, when you look at Tarvarius More,
that list just keeps going on going, right. I mean,
you have John Owens is now in that competition. Dalan
(04:49):
Levitt has been one of the probably the most veteran
players on this roster, and then obviously in his gains,
I think is a guy that's shown some promise. But
who's going to be the one that gets that spot?
Because I feel like safety is one of those positions
you don't want to see a platoon. You want to
see them build a one two combination of battery, if
you will. The pitcher and catcher of those two guys
(05:10):
working back there and I think when you look at
Savage's history, that's the thing that has worked the best
for him when you have that familiarity, when you know
what the assignments are, and ultimately being able to get
the most out of the guy that the Packers really
invested a lot into four years ago.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, I think this, I think, you know, six is
somewhat an apt comparison. I'd also maybe look in some
respects at twenty thirteen when the Packers knew they had
Morgan Burnett in one spot, but the other spot was
kind of wide open. I think the biggest difference there,
and maybe why it's a little bit more like six,
(05:45):
is that the guys that we've seen at the top
of the competition, at least the ones that we saw
rotating in with Savage with the first defense during the
spring Rudy Ford, Jonathan Owens, Tarvarius Moore put him in
whatever order you want to right now. But those three
guys have a lot more NFL experience than the guys
(06:07):
had a decade ago when the Packers were in this
spot where they knew they had Morgan Burnett, but they
didn't know who the other guy was going to be. Obviously,
then later on down the road, the first round draft
pick was spent on Haha Clinton Dix. But the competition
this time around seems to be with experienced players and
it's just a matter of who's who's going to jump
(06:27):
up and take it and run. Rudy Ford has the
most experienced in the Packers system. Jonathan Owens was a
full time seventeen game starter a year ago for the
Houston Texans, and Tarvarius Moore was a half season starter
for the San Francisco forty nine Ers a pretty darn
good defense just a couple of years back, but then
(06:49):
had an injury that cost him his entire twenty twenty
one season before he came back and resumed a prominent
special teams role for San Francisco last year. So none
of these guys are brand new to the NFL in
that respect, And even when you talk about dal Levitt,
Innis Gains, other guys we may see, you know, fight
(07:09):
for this spot as well, so experience experiences there and
the Packers, you know, new secondary coach passinging coordinator Greg Williams,
along with Ryan Downard, along with Joe Berry, the defensive coordinator,
they're going to have to decide, you know, what is
that best combination in the back end there as the
(07:29):
defense makes this transition from Adrian Amos.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Yeah, and I'd be remiss, you know. Also to mention
Anthony Johnson, the Packers did use a draft pick on
that pack as well. He is going to be a
part of this because it is about who's going to start.
But one of the other reasons the Packers have all
these prospects, have all these different various players is because
of what they potentially add to special teams as well.
When you mentioned Tarvarius More, yeah, he had a couple
(07:52):
cups of coffee with the defense there in San Francisco,
but he largely, you know, hung on as long as
he did with the forty nine ers because of what
he did on special teams. You look at Rudy Ford.
I think one of the things that Rudy came to
Green Bay, the biggest chip on his shoulder was Yeah,
I know I'm an exceptional flyer. I know I'm an
exceptional coverage player on special teams. I've been looking for
the opportunity to prove that I can be a starter
in this league and stay a starter. And then Jonathan Owens,
(08:15):
I don't know. You'd have to probably search pretty long
on you know, Football Database or NFL Reference and all
these websites to find someone that has traveled such a
long road to become a one year every game starter,
playing almost a thousand snaps and then this offseason trying
to find another opportunity for himself that that chip on
(08:36):
his shoulder remains very large. So when you talk about
all these position battles, there's probably other ones that are
going to be maybe more important or things that the
average fan are going to think about more. But in
terms of the stakes, I don't know if there's anyone
that is the higher. The stakes are higher than what's
available for the Packers and these young safeties on this team,
and the.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Spot on the offensive side of the ball that appears
wide open as training campigins for the Packers is right tackle,
shaping up to be based on what we saw in
the spring again to be a competition between the incumbent
yosh Neimen and the second year pro Zach Tom a
fourth round draft pick out of Wake Forest last year
(09:16):
who proved as a rookie that he could jump in
fill in at various spots, including left tackle for David
Bakhtiari in a pinch. This will be interesting, West because
you're talking about two very different body types. But also
yosh Naimen has a heck of a lot of experience,
Zach Tom not quite so much in that regard, and
one of those things that could take multiple preseason games
(09:39):
to decide, Oh, who's going to be lining up there
in Week one.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah, certainly the Packers want to have us starting five
figured out, but you and I have covered enough football
to understand that even in the optimum situations like twenty fourteen,
there was still one game where Brian Blogo wasn't able
to play right, and a lot of times there are
injuries that create domino effects. That's what's kind of funny
to me about this competition right now, because we're whether
or not Zach Tom prevails or Yashneiman prevails. Packers are
(10:03):
going to need both of these guys this year. Whoever
isn't starting is probably the next man up with a
domino effect on the rest of the offensive line regardless.
But to your point, the most exciting part of it
is you have a guy in Zach Tom that I
think everybody agrees probably the better prospect in terms of
the intangibles, right three year starter in college, fourth round pick.
I love everything I saw from him and how he
(10:25):
was able to hit the ground running. In a lesser
year where the Packers are more up against it in
terms of their roster, probably would have started more. It
was just an act circumstance of injuries and different things
that that sort of enabled him to move around as
much as he did. But in some years I could
see him being a guy that would plug in at
one spot and that's your starter. Then you got Yashneiman,
who's taken the long road to this spot. Six foot seven,
(10:48):
three hundred and fourteen pounds. This is how you draw
these guys up. But it took time for him to
use that body type and showed that he could be
a game in and game out starter. It is going
to be a very intriguing battle to watch, But I
think the fun thing for the Green Bay Packers is
it's a good position to be in and regardless, you're
probably gonna need both of these guys to get through
a full season.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, no question about it. And several other storylines for
us to pay attention to, for all the fans to
watch here when training camp gets going. I do have
a story on the website, five storylines as a Packers
open training camp, but I'm gonna throw a few more
at you, Wes, and I'll let you talk about whatever
you want to. There's a rookie kicker who's looking to
take over for the franchisees all time leading scorer. We'll
(11:29):
be waiting to see when Rashaan Gary and or Eric
Stokes is able to come back. By all accounts, everything
with their rehab, different rehab processes, but things are going well.
No timeline promised in terms of when those guys might
come off the pup list physically unable to perform. And
(11:50):
then obviously, you know the getting up to speed, getting
on the same page, whatever you want to call it,
all the young pass catchers with the new quarterback, you've
got the second and your receivers, and Watson and Dobbs,
you have the rookie tight ends in Musgrave and Craft.
There's a lot going on here with this Packers team
on both sides of the ball. And you know, it
(12:12):
feels like, even though training camp is just getting started,
it feels like that game in Week one is right
around the corner.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
It does Mike. And the part that I find most
interesting is looking at those pass catchers, those skill position
players that you talked about, because kind of like the
tackle situation, there might be a starter, there might be
someone that plays more snaps, there might be more packages
built around specific guys. But one of the points I
laid out an insider inbox this past week was that
(12:39):
wide receivers three through five I think are all going
to have roles on this team. I think the tight
ends probably all the way one through four are going
to have specific packages and niches that they're going to fill.
And frankly, I think there's even opportunity for an RB
three in this offense. I think you go back to
the construct of how Matt Lafleur originally wanted to build
this thing. I think there's an opportunity there for a
(12:59):
Tyler good Sintat, Patrick Taylor, lou Nicchols, somebody else to
get involved there with Aaron Jones and AJ Dillon, and
that multiplicity of options I think is what makes this
offense the most dangerous. People will talk about, well, you know,
Jordan Love and Christian Watson and Romeo Dobbs, and certainly
that is going to be a foundational part of the
passing game. But it's about all these guys they've added
(13:21):
around them that I think is going to be the
most intriguing to me. Tight end, though, as Matt Lafleur illustrated,
it is more than just catching the ball. It's more
than just running seams. It's more than just about being
and having the fastest ten yards split like Muskrave had
at the combine. It's also about running offense, it's about blocking,
it's about understanding all the different nuances that go into
(13:42):
that position that maybe necessarily aren't something that fantasy football
owners are thinking about. That's the part that the Packers
are going to have to master, especially if Marcedes Lewis
doesn't return.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, and when, as you mentioned in talking about our
last topic about the Packers really needing everybody, I see
that very much much the same with with the tight
ends and the wide receivers, because even though you expect
because of where Luke Musgrave and Tucker Craft were drafted,
you expect them to be the future at tight end,
but Josiah Deguarre and Tyler Davis are going to be
(14:14):
needed in this group, particularly in the early part of
the season, as as those young guys get up to
speed and and and prove that they belong in the NFL.
You look at wide receiver, there's a lot of promise
with Samari Toure coming back his second year, you know,
showed some showed some things in the spring. I think
Jaden Reid as a second round draft pick, everybody expects
(14:35):
him to eventually, you know, get to the same type
of level that Christian Watson and Romeo Romeo Dobbs are
at in this offense. But Samarrii Toure is going to
have a spot. He's going to have a role and
and opportunity to, uh, you know, to make an impact
on this offense. And you know how it goes in
this league. If a guy who gets an opportunity seizes
(14:58):
it and starts to produce, it doesn't matter who's behind him.
The coaches are not just going to say, Okay, well
it's this guy's turn. Now. You know, you're ten catches
for one hundred and fifty yards in the first three
weeks of the season, We're just going to kick you
to the curb. It doesn't work like that. If you
if you sees an opportunity and you produce you can
start to establish yourself in this league. And I think
(15:19):
at both wide receiver and tight end the Packers have
young guys behind their younger guys. The opportunities are going
to be there and we'll just have to see what happens.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Here's where this gets fun too, right, Mike, because as
you were mentioning during our intro, well, it's you know,
you have the ramp up period, which in a lot
of ways looks like OTA's. Well, who wasn't here during
OTAs Jyr Alexander Russeul Douglas. When you talk about those
young receivers specifically, I think that's where the bar comes in.
That's where you get the litmus test for these young guys,
(15:49):
seeing how they stand up to that challenge. The fun
thing to me about this is if there wasn't a
Romeo Dobs this year, if there wasn't a Christian Watson,
and shoot, if there wasn't a Samari too Rae. If
you flip the script and go back to last year
and there was no Jaden Reid, I think people would
have been talking a lot more about Dantavian Wicks than
they did, just because there's all these young guys that
(16:10):
these headlines are going to be drawn about. Certainly, you
look at the physique of Christian Watson and everything that
Dobbs did last offseason coming back, those are going to
be people that you naturally sort of gravitate towards. But
I thought Dantavian Wicks looked exceptional during the off season
program and I'm excited to see how he does now
as he gets ready into training camp. Seven former NFL
draft picks mike all taken within the last two years,
(16:31):
helped make up this receiving corps, and it goes beyond
that as well when you look at some of the
guys that could be available for them. I mean, certainly
there's some undrafted dudes in this class that I thought
showed out a little bit during the off season program.
That is where it gets exciting for Green Bay and
also understanding that who is going to be the one
that helps and sort of develops that rapport with Jordan
(16:52):
Love in these practices while going up against the jyr
Alexanders and Rasoul Douglases. I think even during the ramp
up period, even before the pads come on, that's where
we're going to start to learn a lot more about
these young guys seeing when they are going up against
that type of competition.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Yeah. Absolutely, well, I wanted to care a little bit
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(17:27):
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All right, Well, one of the questions that Matt Lafleur answered,
although he sort of didn't answer it either, understandably. So
everybody's wondering what is going to happen with regard to
the preseason playing time. How much is Jordan Love going
to play? How much are the starters going to play?
(17:48):
There's so many young guys and all that. Matt Lafuer said, Hey,
it's going to be a fluid situation. I think the
fact that the Packers are going to have a joint
practice with the Cincinnati Bengals when they're on the road
they're going to have a pair of joint practices with
the New England Patriots when New England comes to Green Bay.
I think a lot could hinge on just how the
(18:09):
coaches feel about what the guys are, what the young
guys in particular are getting out of those practices, and
where they are, including quarterback Jordan Love. As far as
then deciding, okay, how much should they play in the
preseason game? How much risk do you want to take? There?
One thing I will say, and I said this from
the beginning because people were asking, you know, way back
(18:31):
in February, how much is Jordan Love going to play
in the preseason if he takes over as a starting quarterback?
I think it mostly hinges on how much does Matt
Lafleur want to play the starting offensive line? Because no
offense to any of those other guys, but you're not
going to put Jordan Love out there in a preseason
game behind the number two offensive line. He's not going
(18:53):
to do that. So it's not just about how much
does Jordan Love need to play, but how much are
the offensive is the number one offensive line in front
of him going to play? All of that becomes, you know,
part of the puzzle fitting together. Just what is going
to happen with the preseason playing time when we get
a couple weeks down the road here.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, especially if the Cincinnati Bengals are lining up Trey Hendrickson,
that's a decision that green By Packers need to make
in that moment. The thing that's funny to me about
this process is that I think there was only one
year where this was actually a legitimate question. I think
it's become sort of a pop popular thing for me
to bring up. But twenty twenty one, excuse me, was
the one year where I thought this was actually a
(19:33):
real question in preseason because that year, regardless of what
they were going to do with Aaron Rodgers, I think
actually that offensive line did need to get some snaps
together in the preseason because you knew you weren't going
to get David Baktiari back and you had to figure
out what the plan of action was going to be
at that position. So we saw the first team starters
actually be out there in those first two preseason games.
But as you said, it comes back to our Elton
(19:56):
Jenkins and David baktier are going to be out there
in Cincinnati. Are they going to be out there against
New England. If they are, okay, let's see Jordan go
out there and maybe work a little bit. If they're not,
you are getting two practices against actual NFL competition guys
that do not look the same as your defense, and
I think there's a value in that. But their only
(20:16):
situation I think Green Bay needs to figure out is
when they travel to Cincinnati knowing whether or not Love
is going to play, because you only have one real
practice to figure that out. After that, maybe you can
start to us, you know, maybe make some judgments on
whether or not you think he needs to work. But
at the end of the day, the Packers, they schedule
these joint practices for a reason. They want to get
that work against other NFL competition, other NFL defensive coordinators.
(20:39):
And I'm sure based on how they feel getting through
Family Night probably will go a long way and determining
which course of action they take as they move into
the preseason.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, you want to get that work against other teams,
But where you have the opportunity to protect your players
and particularly the quarterbacks, and that's where there is a
lot of value, certainly for young quarterbacks particular and young
receivers and others on offense as well, that the packers
are going to try to take advantage of every opportunity
(21:08):
they have. There last thing I'll throw at you here, Wes,
before we go and get ready for Wednesday mornings opening practice.
Anything else that you that is on your radar that
you're going to be keeping an eye on in these
first couple of days of practice before we come back
for another show.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I always look at the special teams. I always look
at the coverage units. I mean, there's not a whole
lot to be drawn about that in the first week
or so, but as you go through it, that's where
you start to get some of those questions answered about
who could potentially be those those secondary guys, those those
guys that could end up making this roster as specialists.
When you see them start working on the first team units,
(21:46):
when you start seeing them build that familiarity, that actually
is sort of an glimpse into what the you know,
Rich Basaci and his coaches are thinking. But also I
think this is very important is seeing how the defense
comes together throughout this training camp. Beause last year, the
whole idea and the mantra of everybody was that this
is going to be a top five group. They're going
to be dominant. Look at how much success they're having
(22:07):
against Aaron Rodgers in this offense, and ultimately they got
off to a kind of a slow start. There are
going to be so many The defense is interesting right
because there are so many positions where everything's solidified. If
Devandre Campbell and Kwai Waraka are healthy, those are your
inside linebackers. They could play together for a thousand snaps
this season. You know, JayR Alexander, Rusoul Douglas and probably
(22:28):
Keishaw Nixon are going to be out there all the time.
We know what the rotation looks like at outside linebacker,
especially once Rashaun Gary's back. But defensive line, there's a
lot of question marks. You have Kenny Clark, who has
been a two time Pro Bowl player, and then you
have the rest of the room that has combined for
two NFL starts. Right now, you look at the questions
at safety right now, those are two big questions that
(22:51):
Green Bay needs to answer with their position groups during
this training camp and into the preseason. And I am
very interested to figure out what that is going to
be because the defense does have I expectations and regardless
of how they look in these training camp practices, it
is going to be about making sure when you step
on the field at Ford Field, excuse me, Soldier Field
in week one, this can be a group that can
(23:11):
be counted on and relied on here to help the
Packers set the tone.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, and I think I think the other piece to
that too is that the Packers may you know, every
year we talk about the second year jump, but you know,
players going from their rookie season to their second year.
This year, in particular, I think the Packers are counting
on that second year jump to play a major part
on both sides of the ball. When you look at Watson, Dobbs,
(23:37):
and Toure at wide receiver. We talked about Zach tom
possibly winning a spot on the offensive line or being
the next man up, being the sixth man, Kway Walker,
Devonte Wyatt. On defense, those guys going into their second seasons,
you know, Matt Lafleur talked about those guys not playing
with any hesitation anymore. They should know the playbook. They
(23:59):
you know, it's it's all out every snap. There isn't
there isn't as much thinking going on Brian Gudakunz mentioned
it's about it's about consistency. Yeah, anybody, a rookie anywhere,
anybody from a rookie to a fifth year guy can
flash in training camp and make a play here and there.
But these guys who are graduating from being rookies into
second year players, can they establish consistency? Can they do
(24:22):
it day in and day out. It's not just you know,
they make the headlines one day and then nobody's talking
about them again for another week. So those are the
things to watch for because this second year, that this
draft class from twenty twenty two, that is that's moving
into their their second season there, the Packers are going
to be counting on a lot of those guys to
make a big time impact in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah. And the other reason to focus on a too mike.
If the Packers didn't feel like DeVante White couldn't handle it,
if they felt like TJ. Slaton could have handled it,
they were not so far up against the salary cap
that they couldn't have brought in veteran help. They did this,
and they went the direction they went because they felt
like these are the guys we drafted We knew the
situation with Dean Lowery and jer and read in a
lot of these veterans, and we were confident in moving
(25:06):
forward with them now as the face of that defensive line.
It's a gamble, it's a risk always, but certainly the
Packers want to give these guys that opportunity. Same thing
at tight ends, same thing at receiver. You have young
guys that you've invested in. Now you want to see
those investments start to pay dividends. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
Absolutely, they've got they've got to play. They've got they've
got to prove it. They have to play and prove
that they belong and the Packers are going to be
relying on some big time production out of young players
to make this twenty twenty three season of success. So
with that, we'll call it a wrap on this edition
of Packers Unscript. It'd be sure to follow all of
our coverage of the team, everything going on with training
(25:43):
camp at twenty twenty three. We will have it for
you on Packers dot com and Wes and I will
be back again in a couple of days. So for Wes,
I am Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody, and
we will see you next time,
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