August 31, 2023 • 21 mins
Mike and Wes discuss the youth on the Packers’ 53-man roster (:32), including the three undrafted rookies who made the team (5:27) – WR Malik Heath, RB Emanuel Wilson and LB Brenton Cox Jr. They also examine the small number of cornerbacks and large number of offensive linemen, and what that means (12:13). Finally, they share some more details of new P Daniel Whelan’s story (17:19).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined as always
by my trusted colleague Weston Hodquitz, and he's right here
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, Wes, Hey Michael.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's been a while.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's been a minute since we've been in this setup.
But I'll tell you what kind of like hopping on
a bike going back to your grandparents hose, you just
feel right back at home. That's happy to be back
in the study, always right.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
It's like we never left in some ways. But we
do have a lot to talk about on this show.
First and foremost the fifty three man roster for the
Green Bay Packers, which is still undergoing some adjustments here
and there. But the biggest thing that stands out about
this Packers roster heading into the twenty twenty three season
(00:50):
west is it is awfully young.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It is now we won't be able to get the
actual NFL superlatives on where the Packers rank and how
they do all that kind of data management will pump
that out after week one, but at this point in time,
I know Jason Wilde was crunching some of the numbers
some other people on Twitter were doing it and average
aged right around twenty five for green Bay, which is
incredibly low compared to obviously the most recent years. But
(01:14):
then when you look at the NFL and the way
things are structured, usually it's more in that twenty six
to twenty seven range. But the green Bay Packers right
now with only one player I think over thirty, and
that's David Baktiari after the decision to let go of
pad O'Donnell's, So it gives you an idea of where
they're heading. One of the things I really did enjoy, Mike.
We're gonna touch on a lot of topics here, but
(01:34):
Brian Gudocun's press conference one of the first things we
heard after the final cuts were announced him mentioning, yes,
we are young, but the expectations don't change. The green
Bay Packers still have very high expectations for this season.
It just so happens that it's going to be with
a roster that is a little bit younger than the norm.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, and Gudakun's talked about how and he's mentioned this
many times before that this roster is built with a
lot of young players that he's expecting are going to
grow together and mature together and whatnot. But that is
it's not as though everybody's just supposed to wait for
an entire season to be in the books before that happens.
(02:13):
Seventeen games is a long time. It's a long season.
This team is expected to look and play much differently
in November and December, when all these young players have
you know, eight, nine, ten games under their belts than
perhaps they do in the beginning. And this is going
to be, I think, more so than any other that
(02:36):
we've seen in Green Bay in our time here, a
season of evolution with regard to what this team is
going to look like and how it's going to play,
and how the coaching staff is going to figure out,
most specifically on the offensive side of the ball, what
this team does best and what it can hang its
hat on, because I you know, and we'll see the
(02:57):
roster change throughout the course of the season, it always does,
but in terms of the actual play on the field,
we may be looking at a very different team in
the second half of the season than the one in
the first half of the season as everybody figures things out.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
More so than any other year I've covered Now you
were here during some of the very early years of
the Mike McCarthy era, those teams also trended very young
as well. But to me, I look at it as
also a huge opportunity because more than any other year,
I think where I cut, whether it was covering final
cuts and the roster construction of the practice squad, there's
(03:29):
so much young talent at all these positions. Right when
you look at receiver, how deep Green Bay goes with
a guy like Malik Heath making this roster Grant du
Bose comes back on the practice squad. But then you
also have you know, Jaden Reid coming in and as
you know, Brian goodkinsin and said looking a lot more
polished than I think a lot of people thought he
was going to as a rookie second round pick. The
(03:52):
tight end situation with Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kraft, you know, defensively,
this plethora of defensive linemen that are going to be
stepping in with Kenny Clark into this starting lineup. I
think that is where the Packers really can separate themselves
this year. Because I give Matt Leafluor a lot of credit.
I give Mike McCarthy a lot of credit. Their teams
(04:13):
did typically get better throughout the course of the year.
They always seem to play their best ball in December's
the reason why Matt Lafluur's record is what it is
during the final month of the season. But that being said,
the ceiling, the upside, the limitless potential of this group,
I think is going to be what you are going
to make the biggest difference. I made a joke, not
a joke, it was serious, but kind of a funny
(04:33):
equip if you will, an insider inbox about people asking
about the opener against Chicago and the importance of it.
It's huge, It's a really important game, but it pales
into comparison to what the Week eighteen game against the
Chicago Bears, Yeah, should be and what the Packers want
that game to be. And I think throughout the course
this year, you're gonna see this team take its lumps
at times, but I think you're gonna see tremendous growth
as well.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, And for all the anticipation and excitement about Week
one against the Chicago Bears at Soldier Field, it just
feels like win or lose, whatever the score is. There's
there's almost nothing about that game that's going to define
the twenty twenty three Packers in Week one never really
defines any team, but even more so this year, it
(05:16):
seems that it's that's going to be this team just
getting out of the starting blocks, and but you don't
know what. You don't know what the rest of that
race is going to look like. Well, one of the
reasons that this team is as young as it is
statistically is because not one, not two, but three undrafted
(05:37):
rookies made this fifty three man roster. You wrote about
them on our website. There's a story on packers dot
com to check out. And of course I'm talking about
receiver Malik Heath. You already mentioned running back Emmanuel Wilson,
who won the number three running back job, and then
outside linebacker Brenton Cox Junior. It keeps a street going
(05:59):
now of nineteen years in which the Packers will have
an undrafted rookie on their Week one roster. But more
so than just the streak, three guys in a year
in which the Packers had thirteen draft picks, you know,
three undrafted guys ended up busting through and making the
fifty three. It's a credit to them. Also a credit
(06:19):
to the scouting department that, you know, the building of
the team, the building the acquisition of new players doesn't
end when the draft ends. There are a lot of
guys that are brought in here to get a look,
and the ones that take advantage of that opportunity sometimes
they stick around well.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And it's funny to me because college free agency it's
such a free for all, right. I mean, now, certainly
you build some relationships, you make some phone calls, but
it literally is just teams being able to just grab
whatever players they can get. Afterwards, I mean, it's like
a you know, it's like college recruiting on like just
a complete tripe where it's like you're just trying to
get as many people as possible. But I think Brian
(06:55):
Goodokunz and his scouts, in my opinion, this was the
strongest UFA class they've had so far, because I think
there's guys on this practice squad too that can play
in this league. It's just the way that numbers work out.
But those three guys I think all stood out for
very different reasons. When you look at Malik Heath, I
think there are a lot of parallels there with him
and Romeo Dobbs. This is a guy that won. Did
not look like an undrafted free agent. But at times,
(07:16):
I'll be honest with you, Mike, there was times in
the ots I'm like, is this guy even a rookie?
I mean, he just he was wise beyond his years.
And you know, and as you know Brian Goodekin said
when he addressed the media on Wednesday, this is a
guy that had some stuff happened in college, you would
have probably gotten drafted had it not been for that.
But he you know, the Packers, they do their background checks.
They feel good about these players, the same thing with
(07:37):
Brenton Cox junior, and they bring them in and give
an opportunity in a clean slate. I thought Heath completely maximized.
That led the Packers in receiving twelve catches for one
hundred and forty six yards in the preseason. He was
able to be a starter with the offense. With Romeo
Dobbs dealing with a hamstring in the preseason finale, kind
of a precautionary thing, but the Packers wanted to, you know,
(07:57):
give Heath that opportunity, and you know, made a big
catch on the fifteen play eight r drive everything you
wanted to see from Heath in this gate, in this preseason,
you saw it, whether it was the hast catching or
even him blocking a guy into a field goal net
on the sidelines. And then quickly just to touch on
with Emmanuel Wilson. Here's a guy that spent three days
in Denver after the draft, got cut, ends up in
(08:19):
Green Bay. He had taken a top thirty visit here.
There was interest from Green Bay. But is looking at
a pretty tall depth chart where you have Patrick Taylor
coming back special teamer, fourth year veteran, You had Tyler
Goodson looking really good after working out this offseason with
Aaron Jones, and then Lou Nichols who was the seventh
round pick out of Central Michigan as a rookie. Injuries happened,
(08:41):
Wilson gets his opportunity, and as I wrote in art
that story, he just made himself undeniable.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, and it's funny. I admit I was steered wrong
in some respects on the number three running back competition
because when Wilson's star was starting to rise, we heard
from Matt Lafleur. I believe it was after the New
England preseason game, and he was talking about, well, he's
got a long ways to go and pass protection. He
hasn't done too much on special teams. We really need
(09:07):
him to work on his conditioning, you know, you know,
to be able to carry the ball fifteen sixteen times
in a game. I thought, Okay, they're just you know,
they're downplaying this and they're going to try to slip
him through to the practice squad. This is not a
guy who's going to make the roster and lo and behold.
When push came to shove and the decision had to
be made, they're like, no, this is this is our
number three running back. This is the guy that we
(09:27):
want on the fifty three. I think with Breton Cox,
it's a very interesting case. As as most folks know,
he had some off the field issues. He was dismissed
from two programs in the Southeastern Conference. Packers give him
a chance as an undrafted guy. They say, Hey, same
thing with Malie Heath. In a lot of ways, it's like, hey,
(09:48):
it's a clean slate here, you get to start over,
so make the most of it. And he does. And
what you have now for the Packers that outside linebacker,
you've got Preston Smith, and Rashaun Gary right behind them.
You have a first round draft pick in Lucas Fans,
a second year guy in kings Leannigbari who showed some
real potential as a rookie. You got Justin Hollins, a
(10:09):
veteran who came in last year, played a half a
dozen games and made an impact in Joe Berry's defense.
And then you're adding Breton Cox as a sixth guy
to that group. It's almost like adding another draft pick
because from a talent perspective, Breton Cox would have been
drafted and who knows maybe, I mean, you know, I
don't want to make a prediction necessarily, but probably anywhere
(10:29):
from like the third to the fifth round maybe is
where his talents all without anything else, you know, in
the equation. So it's as though the Packers took the
outside linebacker group they ended last season with. You're bringing
back with Shaan Gary, and you added two draft picks
in Lucas Fanis and Breton Cox Junior. This group as
(10:53):
far as the edge rusher group to get after quarterbacks,
this is as deep as Matt Lafleur has had since
he's been here. I think that's going to be a
boom for Joe Barry as he devises what to do defensive.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I think that's the most impressive thing, Mike, is
you look at running backs, outside linebackers, and receivers. Those
are three of the deepest positions the Packers had in
their roster, and these guys it isn't like they just Okay,
we needed a fourth guy to fill at a depth chart.
All these guys competed to earn those spots and now
the possibilities of this group. I look at that defensive
front too, Mike. The ways you can mix and match
guys were Shaun Gary it sounds like he's gonna be
(11:25):
on a pitch count earlier this season. According to Matt
lafleor a is they try to work him back, but
you got a guy like kings Leyanningbari to eat some
of those snaps you have justin Hollins. You're bringing along
two rookies along with them. It's an intriguing, intriguing group,
and I think that's again getting back to that upside
and this sky's a limit for this group. That is
going to be what carries them, I think throughout the
(11:45):
course of this season.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, I want to get to some other thoughts on
the roster, but we'll take care of some sponsor business here. First.
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(12:07):
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fifty years of better, all right. A couple other thoughts
with regard to the roster. One is that we we
saw with the decisions with this fifty three how much
the not just the size of the practice squad being
sixteen players now over the last couple of years, but
(12:29):
the flexibility that the league allows with regard to game
day elevations. Now there are limitations on certain you know players.
Once you elevate a guy three times, then you have
to make a more definitive decision on his roster status.
But that kind of flexibility, being able to elevate players
from the practice squad to the active roster for game day,
(12:49):
I think is why the Packers were able to to
send in their fifty three with only four cornerbacks. Yeah,
you know, because in this in this day and age,
I've got four cornerbacks on the field in a game
like quite a bit. I mean, you need to have
more than that. But do you need to have more
than that on your fifty three? Not necessarily because of
(13:11):
the practice squad game day elevations. The other thing that
stood out to me, and you touched on a little
bit with the defensive line, but also just the number
of big guys that the Packers kept ended up being
eleven offensive linemen, although the expectation is that Luke Tannuda
will most likely be moved to injured reserve and it
will be down to ten on the active roster, but
(13:33):
even that says something because they wanted to carry Luke
Tanuda through to the fifty three because he's a big
guy that they believe can play in this league. And
just because he got hurt, they didn't want to They
didn't want to lose him and let him go. We
had talked all off season about how deep this offensive
line was, how many guys the Packers were bringing back
who were either on the active roster or the practice
(13:54):
squad from last year. And this is a group. This
offensive line, I think is really the group that forms
the foundation of this team, particularly on offense, when everybody else,
you know, the wide receivers, the titands, and the quarterback
are also young and inexperienced.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, I mean, the Packers have some real skyscrapers, you know,
at the tackle position. I always say that same story.
When yosh Nyman got here in nineteen, I'm like, Wow,
that is a really big tackle, and then Caleb Jones
got here last year and I'm like, he's bigger than you. Yeah,
bigger Luke Tanuda, I mean, you know, Tanuda and Yash
actually played together at Virginia Tech. And it's like, these
(14:31):
are just monstrous, you know types of tackles, and the
Packers want to see what's there, they want to try
to develop it. It is funny to me that it's
that they have all these tackles and then you got
a guy like Zach Tom who's not the biggest offensive
line in the world, and he ends up, you know,
basically winning that right tackle job, finesse, footwork, technique, intelligence,
and is probably going to be the backup at potentially
(14:52):
every spot now on the Packers' offensive line, depending on
if injury should happen. I really like the way that
the offensive line competent played out in camp because I
thought you saw strides from a lot of those draft
picks the Packers had last year. Rashid Walker might have
been the most improved player in camp from where he
was at pound for pound to where he got to
this year blocking for Jordan Love and the two preseason
(15:13):
finales on the left tackle side. You know, Sean Ryan,
I thought put a better effort forward this year. He
talked about cleaning up his diet, getting better sleep, just
being smarter about how he handled everything. I think that's
very important right now in trying to see exactly where
that could all potentially fit. Lastly, just to quickly touch
on this, two preseason games might the last two preseason
(15:34):
games no quarterback hits allowed. It's preseason, I get it. Yeah,
But the fact that that group went that deep, everybody
earned their spot there, as much as that probably caught
some people by surprise. With eleven offensive linemen, I thought
that group, by and large, you know, they earn their
keyp Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And when we I mean we've seen it before. When
you don't have that kind of depth on the offensive line.
You get into the twos and the threes in the
preseason games, and the offense just becomes a mess and
it can't even function because you just you don't have
enough enough continuity and enough execution up front to be
able to make anything work and to be able to
get a look at these other players and you know,
(16:12):
see what they can do. Packers didn't have that problem
in this preseason because because the offensive lines through the
multiple units held up and allowed the offense to function.
And we saw, we saw what Sean Clifford to do.
We saw what Alex Magoo did on the final You
know that that what turned out to be the game
winning drive against Seattle in the finale. The guys up
front in on this Packers roster, as you said, they
(16:35):
got the job done there in their spots.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And they gave a guy like Emmanuel Wilson the opportunity
to end up leading the NFL in preseason rushing yards. Mike,
you and I have covered a lot of preseason football,
not just talking about the Green Bay Packers, just NFL
in general, seeing different teams come in a guy having
two hundred and twenty three rushing yards in the preseason
does not happen a lot, especially on thirty eight carries
or whatever it was that he ended up having, I.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Mean, well, and then only three preseason games as opposed
to four the way it used.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
To be exactly. I mean, I was so impressed by
the young man. But it's also the partnership, the synergy
that goes with the offensive line. Again is a very
impressive preseason. And now the Packers hope that being able
to plant all these you know, pieces for this offense,
defense and special teams that that can ultimately be what
you know, is going to be the thing that kind
of catapults him into the season, the season of transition
here at Jordan Love at quarterback.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, one last thing I want to touch on. I
guess we'll call it a tease because I'm going to
be writing a story on this very shortly on Packers
dot com. So when you have a chance, look for it.
Not sure exactly when it's going to get posted. We
talked on our last show about the decision at punter.
Because pad O'Donnell had already been released, the Packers had
decided that Daniel Wheelan would be their punter and his story,
(17:41):
his story is something else, Wes. I mean, it's not
just that he you know, was born in Ireland. He
moved to the United States when he was thirteen years old.
He first played football as a seventeen year old high
school junior. Was just talked into it by the coach
to come out to be the kicker and punter, be
the specialist on the team. Goes to a small college
in California, gets a chance with the Saints as a
(18:05):
as a as an undrafted rookie. It doesn't doesn't work
out there, He's released, and then you know, he goes
to the XFL and then ends up coming to Green Bay.
But there's so there's there's so much else that's in
between there, including from the time that he was released
by the Saints until he stepped onto the field in
the XFL, he was folding towels for eight hours a
(18:28):
day in a hotel spa, like that was his job
out in California, just trying to figure out, like, Okay,
what's next, Like what am I going to do? Then
the XFL comes along, and then not only does he
get a shot with the Packers, but he's got to
beat out a ten year veteran, a guy who has
absolutely been there, done that. The you know, the holding
for field goals, the cold weather, you know, all of it.
(18:50):
And he he gave a big thanks to Pad O'Donnell
for not only the way O'Donnell handled the situation, but
the way he helped him, particularly with regard to holding
on field goals. He said, he said, just watching it
wasn't even so much what O'Donnell said, but just watching
the way he did things, the way he went through
the drills and all that, he learned a lot himself,
(19:12):
and so much so that he tried to He said,
he tried to do between two hundred and fifty and
three hundred holds per day while he was here in
Green Bay. And whether that was Matt Orzik or brought
a hatcher, the two long snappers the Packers had on
the offseason roster snapping to him. Sometimes it was the
special teams coaches would you know, would would fire simulated
(19:35):
snaps back through the holding. And when he was back
home in California with his mother between mandatory mini camp
and the start of training camp, she was lobbing snaps
to him in the kitchen and he and he was
working practicing, doing the holding on the on the linoleum
floor in the kitchen, and he said, yeah, my mom's
my mom's simulated snaps weren't the best, but you know,
(19:57):
it's kind of like a bad ball drill you gotta
work on. I had a workout of touch and the
bad ones too, So it was really fun, really fun
to talk to him. And uh, and I'll be putting
putting that story together soon, but but a heck of
a story. And he's going to be the first Irish
born player in how many years?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
A thirty eight years? Nineteen eighty five Neil mcdona Hughes
last year in the NFL at the Saint Louis Cardinals,
last time.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, and he actually somebody had somebody had tweeted something
that O'donahue had said, I think in a media interview
or something, and then tweeted it at Wheelan because of
Donahue like wished him well and all that kind of stuff.
So he hasn't like directly connected with him, but through
social media and whatnot, he's gotten a message from him.
So a fun story. And uh, and the Packers are
(20:44):
as young as you get at both kicker and punter.
Now heading into twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, somebody asked an inbox, I did my best to
figure this out. Maybe's cliff for you will do a
better job of meet. It seemed like the first time
since nineteen eighty three since the Packers have not had
a guy that has actually played in the NFL on
their roster. But even then that comes with the asterisk
because Johan Stenerud was still here there with Eddie Garcia,
so it's gonna be unprecedently young at that spot. But
(21:08):
I mean Daniel Wheeland, man, the one thing you and
I saw from the beginning of OTAs on the kid
has a huge, huge foot. Yeah, he boomed some complete
moonballs throughout the this camp.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, it's gonna be uh, it's gonna be exciting to
watch his career grow and develop as well. But with
that we will call it a rap on this edition
of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our
coverage of the team on Packers dot com for Wes
I and Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody. We
will see you next time.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from
Packers dot Com. I am Mike Spofford, joined as always
by my trusted colleague Weston Hodquitz, and he's right here
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi, Wes, Hey Michael.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
It's been a while.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It's been a minute since we've been in this setup.
But I'll tell you what kind of like hopping on
a bike going back to your grandparents hose, you just
feel right back at home. That's happy to be back
in the study, always right.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
It's like we never left in some ways. But we
do have a lot to talk about on this show.
First and foremost the fifty three man roster for the
Green Bay Packers, which is still undergoing some adjustments here
and there. But the biggest thing that stands out about
this Packers roster heading into the twenty twenty three season
(00:50):
west is it is awfully young.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
It is now we won't be able to get the
actual NFL superlatives on where the Packers rank and how
they do all that kind of data management will pump
that out after week one, but at this point in time,
I know Jason Wilde was crunching some of the numbers
some other people on Twitter were doing it and average
aged right around twenty five for green Bay, which is
incredibly low compared to obviously the most recent years. But
(01:14):
then when you look at the NFL and the way
things are structured, usually it's more in that twenty six
to twenty seven range. But the green Bay Packers right
now with only one player I think over thirty, and
that's David Baktiari after the decision to let go of
pad O'Donnell's, So it gives you an idea of where
they're heading. One of the things I really did enjoy, Mike.
We're gonna touch on a lot of topics here, but
(01:34):
Brian Gudocun's press conference one of the first things we
heard after the final cuts were announced him mentioning, yes,
we are young, but the expectations don't change. The green
Bay Packers still have very high expectations for this season.
It just so happens that it's going to be with
a roster that is a little bit younger than the norm.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
Yeah, and Gudakun's talked about how and he's mentioned this
many times before that this roster is built with a
lot of young players that he's expecting are going to
grow together and mature together and whatnot. But that is
it's not as though everybody's just supposed to wait for
an entire season to be in the books before that happens.
(02:13):
Seventeen games is a long time. It's a long season.
This team is expected to look and play much differently
in November and December, when all these young players have
you know, eight, nine, ten games under their belts than
perhaps they do in the beginning. And this is going
to be, I think, more so than any other that
(02:36):
we've seen in Green Bay in our time here, a
season of evolution with regard to what this team is
going to look like and how it's going to play,
and how the coaching staff is going to figure out,
most specifically on the offensive side of the ball, what
this team does best and what it can hang its
hat on, because I you know, and we'll see the
(02:57):
roster change throughout the course of the season, it always does,
but in terms of the actual play on the field,
we may be looking at a very different team in
the second half of the season than the one in
the first half of the season as everybody figures things out.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
More so than any other year I've covered Now you
were here during some of the very early years of
the Mike McCarthy era, those teams also trended very young
as well. But to me, I look at it as
also a huge opportunity because more than any other year,
I think where I cut, whether it was covering final
cuts and the roster construction of the practice squad, there's
(03:29):
so much young talent at all these positions. Right when
you look at receiver, how deep Green Bay goes with
a guy like Malik Heath making this roster Grant du
Bose comes back on the practice squad. But then you
also have you know, Jaden Reid coming in and as
you know, Brian goodkinsin and said looking a lot more
polished than I think a lot of people thought he
was going to as a rookie second round pick. The
(03:52):
tight end situation with Luke Musgrave and Tucker Kraft, you know, defensively,
this plethora of defensive linemen that are going to be
stepping in with Kenny Clark into this starting lineup. I
think that is where the Packers really can separate themselves
this year. Because I give Matt Leafluor a lot of credit.
I give Mike McCarthy a lot of credit. Their teams
(04:13):
did typically get better throughout the course of the year.
They always seem to play their best ball in December's
the reason why Matt Lafluur's record is what it is
during the final month of the season. But that being said,
the ceiling, the upside, the limitless potential of this group,
I think is going to be what you are going
to make the biggest difference. I made a joke, not
a joke, it was serious, but kind of a funny
(04:33):
equip if you will, an insider inbox about people asking
about the opener against Chicago and the importance of it.
It's huge, It's a really important game, but it pales
into comparison to what the Week eighteen game against the
Chicago Bears, Yeah, should be and what the Packers want
that game to be. And I think throughout the course
this year, you're gonna see this team take its lumps
at times, but I think you're gonna see tremendous growth
as well.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, And for all the anticipation and excitement about Week
one against the Chicago Bears at Soldier Field, it just
feels like win or lose, whatever the score is. There's
there's almost nothing about that game that's going to define
the twenty twenty three Packers in Week one never really
defines any team, but even more so this year, it
(05:16):
seems that it's that's going to be this team just
getting out of the starting blocks, and but you don't
know what. You don't know what the rest of that
race is going to look like. Well, one of the
reasons that this team is as young as it is
statistically is because not one, not two, but three undrafted
(05:37):
rookies made this fifty three man roster. You wrote about
them on our website. There's a story on packers dot
com to check out. And of course I'm talking about
receiver Malik Heath. You already mentioned running back Emmanuel Wilson,
who won the number three running back job, and then
outside linebacker Brenton Cox Junior. It keeps a street going
(05:59):
now of nineteen years in which the Packers will have
an undrafted rookie on their Week one roster. But more
so than just the streak, three guys in a year
in which the Packers had thirteen draft picks, you know,
three undrafted guys ended up busting through and making the
fifty three. It's a credit to them. Also a credit
(06:19):
to the scouting department that, you know, the building of
the team, the building the acquisition of new players doesn't
end when the draft ends. There are a lot of
guys that are brought in here to get a look,
and the ones that take advantage of that opportunity sometimes
they stick around well.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And it's funny to me because college free agency it's
such a free for all, right. I mean, now, certainly
you build some relationships, you make some phone calls, but
it literally is just teams being able to just grab
whatever players they can get. Afterwards, I mean, it's like
a you know, it's like college recruiting on like just
a complete tripe where it's like you're just trying to
get as many people as possible. But I think Brian
(06:55):
Goodokunz and his scouts, in my opinion, this was the
strongest UFA class they've had so far, because I think
there's guys on this practice squad too that can play
in this league. It's just the way that numbers work out.
But those three guys I think all stood out for
very different reasons. When you look at Malik Heath, I
think there are a lot of parallels there with him
and Romeo Dobbs. This is a guy that won. Did
not look like an undrafted free agent. But at times,
(07:16):
I'll be honest with you, Mike, there was times in
the ots I'm like, is this guy even a rookie?
I mean, he just he was wise beyond his years.
And you know, and as you know Brian Goodekin said
when he addressed the media on Wednesday, this is a
guy that had some stuff happened in college, you would
have probably gotten drafted had it not been for that.
But he you know, the Packers, they do their background checks.
They feel good about these players, the same thing with
(07:37):
Brenton Cox junior, and they bring them in and give
an opportunity in a clean slate. I thought Heath completely maximized.
That led the Packers in receiving twelve catches for one
hundred and forty six yards in the preseason. He was
able to be a starter with the offense. With Romeo
Dobbs dealing with a hamstring in the preseason finale, kind
of a precautionary thing, but the Packers wanted to, you know,
(07:57):
give Heath that opportunity, and you know, made a big
catch on the fifteen play eight r drive everything you
wanted to see from Heath in this gate, in this preseason,
you saw it, whether it was the hast catching or
even him blocking a guy into a field goal net
on the sidelines. And then quickly just to touch on
with Emmanuel Wilson. Here's a guy that spent three days
in Denver after the draft, got cut, ends up in
(08:19):
Green Bay. He had taken a top thirty visit here.
There was interest from Green Bay. But is looking at
a pretty tall depth chart where you have Patrick Taylor
coming back special teamer, fourth year veteran, You had Tyler
Goodson looking really good after working out this offseason with
Aaron Jones, and then Lou Nichols who was the seventh
round pick out of Central Michigan as a rookie. Injuries happened,
(08:41):
Wilson gets his opportunity, and as I wrote in art
that story, he just made himself undeniable.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, and it's funny. I admit I was steered wrong
in some respects on the number three running back competition
because when Wilson's star was starting to rise, we heard
from Matt Lafleur. I believe it was after the New
England preseason game, and he was talking about, well, he's
got a long ways to go and pass protection. He
hasn't done too much on special teams. We really need
(09:07):
him to work on his conditioning, you know, you know,
to be able to carry the ball fifteen sixteen times
in a game. I thought, Okay, they're just you know,
they're downplaying this and they're going to try to slip
him through to the practice squad. This is not a
guy who's going to make the roster and lo and behold.
When push came to shove and the decision had to
be made, they're like, no, this is this is our
number three running back. This is the guy that we
(09:27):
want on the fifty three. I think with Breton Cox,
it's a very interesting case. As as most folks know,
he had some off the field issues. He was dismissed
from two programs in the Southeastern Conference. Packers give him
a chance as an undrafted guy. They say, Hey, same
thing with Malie Heath. In a lot of ways, it's like, hey,
(09:48):
it's a clean slate here, you get to start over,
so make the most of it. And he does. And
what you have now for the Packers that outside linebacker,
you've got Preston Smith, and Rashaun Gary right behind them.
You have a first round draft pick in Lucas Fans,
a second year guy in kings Leannigbari who showed some
real potential as a rookie. You got Justin Hollins, a
(10:09):
veteran who came in last year, played a half a
dozen games and made an impact in Joe Berry's defense.
And then you're adding Breton Cox as a sixth guy
to that group. It's almost like adding another draft pick
because from a talent perspective, Breton Cox would have been
drafted and who knows maybe, I mean, you know, I
don't want to make a prediction necessarily, but probably anywhere
(10:29):
from like the third to the fifth round maybe is
where his talents all without anything else, you know, in
the equation. So it's as though the Packers took the
outside linebacker group they ended last season with. You're bringing
back with Shaan Gary, and you added two draft picks
in Lucas Fanis and Breton Cox Junior. This group as
(10:53):
far as the edge rusher group to get after quarterbacks,
this is as deep as Matt Lafleur has had since
he's been here. I think that's going to be a
boom for Joe Barry as he devises what to do defensive.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And I think that's the most impressive thing, Mike, is
you look at running backs, outside linebackers, and receivers. Those
are three of the deepest positions the Packers had in
their roster, and these guys it isn't like they just Okay,
we needed a fourth guy to fill at a depth chart.
All these guys competed to earn those spots and now
the possibilities of this group. I look at that defensive
front too, Mike. The ways you can mix and match
guys were Shaun Gary it sounds like he's gonna be
(11:25):
on a pitch count earlier this season. According to Matt
lafleor a is they try to work him back, but
you got a guy like kings Leyanningbari to eat some
of those snaps you have justin Hollins. You're bringing along
two rookies along with them. It's an intriguing, intriguing group,
and I think that's again getting back to that upside
and this sky's a limit for this group. That is
going to be what carries them, I think throughout the
(11:45):
course of this season.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, I want to get to some other thoughts on
the roster, but we'll take care of some sponsor business here. First.
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(12:07):
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fifty years of better, all right. A couple other thoughts
with regard to the roster. One is that we we
saw with the decisions with this fifty three how much
the not just the size of the practice squad being
sixteen players now over the last couple of years, but
(12:29):
the flexibility that the league allows with regard to game
day elevations. Now there are limitations on certain you know players.
Once you elevate a guy three times, then you have
to make a more definitive decision on his roster status.
But that kind of flexibility, being able to elevate players
from the practice squad to the active roster for game day,
(12:49):
I think is why the Packers were able to to
send in their fifty three with only four cornerbacks. Yeah,
you know, because in this in this day and age,
I've got four cornerbacks on the field in a game
like quite a bit. I mean, you need to have
more than that. But do you need to have more
than that on your fifty three? Not necessarily because of
(13:11):
the practice squad game day elevations. The other thing that
stood out to me, and you touched on a little
bit with the defensive line, but also just the number
of big guys that the Packers kept ended up being
eleven offensive linemen, although the expectation is that Luke Tannuda
will most likely be moved to injured reserve and it
will be down to ten on the active roster, but
(13:33):
even that says something because they wanted to carry Luke
Tanuda through to the fifty three because he's a big
guy that they believe can play in this league. And
just because he got hurt, they didn't want to They
didn't want to lose him and let him go. We
had talked all off season about how deep this offensive
line was, how many guys the Packers were bringing back
who were either on the active roster or the practice
(13:54):
squad from last year. And this is a group. This
offensive line, I think is really the group that forms
the foundation of this team, particularly on offense, when everybody else,
you know, the wide receivers, the titands, and the quarterback
are also young and inexperienced.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, I mean, the Packers have some real skyscrapers, you know,
at the tackle position. I always say that same story.
When yosh Nyman got here in nineteen, I'm like, Wow,
that is a really big tackle, and then Caleb Jones
got here last year and I'm like, he's bigger than you. Yeah,
bigger Luke Tanuda, I mean, you know, Tanuda and Yash
actually played together at Virginia Tech. And it's like, these
(14:31):
are just monstrous, you know types of tackles, and the
Packers want to see what's there, they want to try
to develop it. It is funny to me that it's
that they have all these tackles and then you got
a guy like Zach Tom who's not the biggest offensive
line in the world, and he ends up, you know,
basically winning that right tackle job, finesse, footwork, technique, intelligence,
and is probably going to be the backup at potentially
(14:52):
every spot now on the Packers' offensive line, depending on
if injury should happen. I really like the way that
the offensive line competent played out in camp because I
thought you saw strides from a lot of those draft
picks the Packers had last year. Rashid Walker might have
been the most improved player in camp from where he
was at pound for pound to where he got to
this year blocking for Jordan Love and the two preseason
(15:13):
finales on the left tackle side. You know, Sean Ryan,
I thought put a better effort forward this year. He
talked about cleaning up his diet, getting better sleep, just
being smarter about how he handled everything. I think that's
very important right now in trying to see exactly where
that could all potentially fit. Lastly, just to quickly touch
on this, two preseason games might the last two preseason
(15:34):
games no quarterback hits allowed. It's preseason, I get it. Yeah,
But the fact that that group went that deep, everybody
earned their spot there, as much as that probably caught
some people by surprise. With eleven offensive linemen, I thought
that group, by and large, you know, they earn their
keyp Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And when we I mean we've seen it before. When
you don't have that kind of depth on the offensive line.
You get into the twos and the threes in the
preseason games, and the offense just becomes a mess and
it can't even function because you just you don't have
enough enough continuity and enough execution up front to be
able to make anything work and to be able to
get a look at these other players and you know,
(16:12):
see what they can do. Packers didn't have that problem
in this preseason because because the offensive lines through the
multiple units held up and allowed the offense to function.
And we saw, we saw what Sean Clifford to do.
We saw what Alex Magoo did on the final You
know that that what turned out to be the game
winning drive against Seattle in the finale. The guys up
front in on this Packers roster, as you said, they
(16:35):
got the job done there in their spots.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
And they gave a guy like Emmanuel Wilson the opportunity
to end up leading the NFL in preseason rushing yards. Mike,
you and I have covered a lot of preseason football,
not just talking about the Green Bay Packers, just NFL
in general, seeing different teams come in a guy having
two hundred and twenty three rushing yards in the preseason
does not happen a lot, especially on thirty eight carries
or whatever it was that he ended up having, I.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Mean, well, and then only three preseason games as opposed
to four the way it used.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
To be exactly. I mean, I was so impressed by
the young man. But it's also the partnership, the synergy
that goes with the offensive line. Again is a very
impressive preseason. And now the Packers hope that being able
to plant all these you know, pieces for this offense,
defense and special teams that that can ultimately be what
you know, is going to be the thing that kind
of catapults him into the season, the season of transition
here at Jordan Love at quarterback.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah, one last thing I want to touch on. I
guess we'll call it a tease because I'm going to
be writing a story on this very shortly on Packers
dot com. So when you have a chance, look for it.
Not sure exactly when it's going to get posted. We
talked on our last show about the decision at punter.
Because pad O'Donnell had already been released, the Packers had
decided that Daniel Wheelan would be their punter and his story,
(17:41):
his story is something else, Wes. I mean, it's not
just that he you know, was born in Ireland. He
moved to the United States when he was thirteen years old.
He first played football as a seventeen year old high
school junior. Was just talked into it by the coach
to come out to be the kicker and punter, be
the specialist on the team. Goes to a small college
in California, gets a chance with the Saints as a
(18:05):
as a as an undrafted rookie. It doesn't doesn't work
out there, He's released, and then you know, he goes
to the XFL and then ends up coming to Green Bay.
But there's so there's there's so much else that's in
between there, including from the time that he was released
by the Saints until he stepped onto the field in
the XFL, he was folding towels for eight hours a
(18:28):
day in a hotel spa, like that was his job
out in California, just trying to figure out, like, Okay,
what's next, Like what am I going to do? Then
the XFL comes along, and then not only does he
get a shot with the Packers, but he's got to
beat out a ten year veteran, a guy who has
absolutely been there, done that. The you know, the holding
for field goals, the cold weather, you know, all of it.
(18:50):
And he he gave a big thanks to Pad O'Donnell
for not only the way O'Donnell handled the situation, but
the way he helped him, particularly with regard to holding
on field goals. He said, he said, just watching it
wasn't even so much what O'Donnell said, but just watching
the way he did things, the way he went through
the drills and all that, he learned a lot himself,
(19:12):
and so much so that he tried to He said,
he tried to do between two hundred and fifty and
three hundred holds per day while he was here in
Green Bay. And whether that was Matt Orzik or brought
a hatcher, the two long snappers the Packers had on
the offseason roster snapping to him. Sometimes it was the
special teams coaches would you know, would would fire simulated
(19:35):
snaps back through the holding. And when he was back
home in California with his mother between mandatory mini camp
and the start of training camp, she was lobbing snaps
to him in the kitchen and he and he was
working practicing, doing the holding on the on the linoleum
floor in the kitchen, and he said, yeah, my mom's
my mom's simulated snaps weren't the best, but you know,
(19:57):
it's kind of like a bad ball drill you gotta
work on. I had a workout of touch and the
bad ones too, So it was really fun, really fun
to talk to him. And uh, and I'll be putting
putting that story together soon, but but a heck of
a story. And he's going to be the first Irish
born player in how many years?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
A thirty eight years? Nineteen eighty five Neil mcdona Hughes
last year in the NFL at the Saint Louis Cardinals,
last time.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, and he actually somebody had somebody had tweeted something
that O'donahue had said, I think in a media interview
or something, and then tweeted it at Wheelan because of
Donahue like wished him well and all that kind of stuff.
So he hasn't like directly connected with him, but through
social media and whatnot, he's gotten a message from him.
So a fun story. And uh, and the Packers are
(20:44):
as young as you get at both kicker and punter.
Now heading into twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, somebody asked an inbox, I did my best to
figure this out. Maybe's cliff for you will do a
better job of meet. It seemed like the first time
since nineteen eighty three since the Packers have not had
a guy that has actually played in the NFL on
their roster. But even then that comes with the asterisk
because Johan Stenerud was still here there with Eddie Garcia,
so it's gonna be unprecedently young at that spot. But
(21:08):
I mean Daniel Wheeland, man, the one thing you and
I saw from the beginning of OTAs on the kid
has a huge, huge foot. Yeah, he boomed some complete
moonballs throughout the this camp.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, it's gonna be uh, it's gonna be exciting to
watch his career grow and develop as well. But with
that we will call it a rap on this edition
of Packers Unscripted. Be sure to follow all of our
coverage of the team on Packers dot com for Wes
I and Mike. Thank you for tuning in everybody. We
will see you next time.
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