April 27, 2022 • 34 mins
The Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast continues Draft Week with Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell discussing the Quarterbacks available and how their job description changes coming into the NFL. College offenses have pass options that make things easier for QBs, but elite defenses in the NFL can make the transition almost impossible for some prospects. Greg gives his final analysis of his top five QB prospects. Teams needing a QB will have to decide between who has the highest ceiling verse who has the quickest ability to start. We wrap up looking at what we expect teams to do in the Draft, but why a team like Seattle could be a total wildcard.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to a brand new edition of tape
Heeds Draft season. We are only as we record this
and drop it to you about a day and a
half away from the cards being turned in. It is
almost time to finally pull the curtain on this two
(00:26):
NFL draft. Been a long time coming. Bobo Schusen, longtime
radio voice of the New York Jets, also college football
for ESPN, and Greg co Sell for over four decades
breaking down the old twenty two at NFL Films and Greg.
We spent a lot of time in the episode that
dropped on Tuesday about all of the position groups, certainly
focusing on the first round ran again through the pass rushers,
(00:49):
the corners, the tackles, some one offs like Kyle Hamilton
at safety and Tyler Linderbaum as a as a center.
The wide receiver class really intriguing um in this draft
as well. The one position group that we saved for
today that we did talk extensively about in our last
episode the quarterbacks. And the quarterbacks always are the position
(01:11):
that and you've said this from the moment we started
this podcast, there are two drafts there's a draft for
all the positions in the NFL, and then there's a
draft for the quarterbacks. Right, It's the value of the
quarterback changes the math for teams in terms of how
they take a guy that might be a question mark
and evaluate their need of that player. And so that's
(01:33):
why you hear every year people that analyze the draft saying, well,
they reached, they reached. Well, that's because teams are so
desperate to get their hands on a franchise guy that
if they see a player they even have a little
bit of belief in. You know, that player at any
other position group might be a second or third round pick.
If he's a quarterback, he's probably gonna go on the
(01:54):
top ten. And you mentioned Malik Willis as the jumping
off point in our last episode of the guy you
think has the highest ceiling physically and maybe a reach player.
But at least before we get of the specific names,
let's start with why teams are having a tough time
with this class. And you know, when you evaluate what
a player does in college, you know has to do
in the NFL as a quarterback, that's a tough evaluation
(02:17):
for some of these teams to make yeah, that is
part of the process, which is really really difficult, Bob,
because ultimately what you see in college football are a
lot of I don't want to say simple things because
that would be really, you know, minimizing what coaches do,
and I don't want to do that. The game is
not quite as detailed and as nuanced at the college
(02:39):
level for many reasons as it is at the NFL level.
And if you draft a quarterback high, and essentially if
you do, he's going to be your starter as a rookie,
those days where you draft a quarterback in the top five,
let's say, and he doesn't play, those days are over.
So if you draft a quarterback that way and you
(02:59):
have to play him, then what can he x acute
at a level that allows you to run your offense?
And that becomes a big question because a lot of
these quarterbacks in college are not asked to do things
that our direct correlation with what they're going to be
ideally asked to do in the NFL. And I've had
(03:21):
this conversation with quarterback coaches is you have to then
run an offense that they're comfortable with so that they
can feel good and that they can execute and Obviously,
it limits what you can do with your playbook and
in some ways makes you much easier to defend. So
there's a balance there. And then the second part of
(03:43):
that question, Bob, is how long does it take for
the quarterback to then learn so that the playbook can
be truly expanded and your offense can become far more
multidimensional and you can do more things that pressure and
stress defenses. And this is all part of the equation.
We can all see when a guy has a big arm,
(04:03):
we can all see when a guy has great athletic talent.
That's not the difficult part of the equation. The equation
is has to do with subtlety, nuance, detail. And I
understand what you're saying. And I've made this kind of
analogy to people before. I'll see if you agree with it.
Where again, you don't want to insult the intelligence the
complexity of playing college quarterback, right Like, it's hard to
(04:26):
play quarterback in the SEC, it's hard to play quarterback
in the big tent. Trying to play quarterback anywhere, yeah,
I mean, you're going up against really really talented players
and they're trying to fool you, and you're trying to
fool them. And there's a lot of check with me.
In college, there's a lot of pre snap post snap diagnosis.
I mean, you're the analogy I've used before. It's almost
(04:47):
like you're taking high school or college level calculus. I
couldn't do that, right, Like, you need to be really
smart to do that. But now you're going to the NFL.
Now we're asking you, can you be like a NASA scientist? Right?
So what you're doing in high school and college still hard,
still difficult, few people can do it. But now to
go to the NFL and execute mentally at the level
(05:08):
of a Matthew Stafford, of a Tom Brady, of an
Aaron Rodgers, of a Russell Wilson. Right, the guys that
we know can computer arize, you know, Patrick Mahomes, the
guys that can look at the defense and see before
the snap, no matter how many times you try and
change the picture. I got it. I see what you're in,
I know where I'm going, I know how I'm going
to fool you in the NFL. That's a whole different
(05:32):
level of brain power. And you're right, I mean, you
don't want to insult the level of intelligence of a
college quarterback is so hard to do. But the NFL,
and again trying to as a general manager to coach,
take the guy from college and figure out can this
guy do that at the NFL level? And how hard
that is. There's a lot more for one of a
(05:53):
better term right now. Easy throws in college that can
help a quarterback if you feel that he's a little uncomfortable.
Don't forget you can always throw a bubble or a
tunnel screen to a wide side of the screen, white
side of the field in college football because it's so wide,
those are easy completions. The one thing that and I
know we spoke about this probably five or six weeks ago,
(06:15):
but the other thing that is really a major adjustment
for quarterbacks coming into the NFL, and you've got to
deal with this as a coach in how you design
your pass game and call your plays, particularly in critical
type situations third and eight, third and nine, is you
have to make throws in the middle of the field
(06:35):
in the NFL. In college, you don't have to make
anywhere near the number of throws in the middle of
the field. And the middle of the field is tight
because the hash marks are closer together in the NFL.
So those throws, it looks like there's a hell of
a lot of defenders there, Bob, It probably looks like
there's fifteen defenders sitting in the middle of the field.
(06:55):
Some quarterbacks are never comfortable with that as they advance
in their NFL career because it's just those are really
difficult rows. So there's so many things that go beyond
just a simple list of traits. Oh, he can spin it,
you know. We know Matt Corral can spin it. We
know that Malik Willis has a hand cannon. We know this.
(07:17):
But it goes way beyond that to determine whether quarterbacks
will be successful at the NFL level and accuracy right,
like being able to throw the ball and basically hit
a dinner plate from twenty five yards away, throwing with anticipation.
How many great quarterbacks in the NFL do you see
The ball is out of their hands, not even before
(07:38):
a wide receiver gets his head around, before a wide
receiver even gets to like the stem of his route,
the ball is out of the quarterback's hand because he
knows the spot of the field that ball has to
be delivered to where that player is going to eventually
end up that is, Bob, you just hit on an
unbelievable point. And I'm glad you did because I learned
this from Ron Jaworski, who I started working with maybe
(07:59):
in nine or ninety. There's spot throws, jaws. You to
tell me that there were certain throws, and I'm not
just talking about four yard throws. I'm talking about like
a deeper out or certain throws. He said, I could
have had a blindfold on and made those throws because
I practiced them so much. And I'm throwing to a spot,
and that's something you don't see a lot of in
(08:19):
college football. So you're a hundred percent right. There are
throws that you have to turn loose your receiver hasn't
even turned around yet. I had a great discussion years
and years ago with Steve Young about the same thing
in Bill Walsh's offense. He said, I did not become
a great quarterback until I understood that I had to
throw the ball to a spot before my receiver was
(08:42):
even close to that spot. And I just had to
understand that he was going to be there and that
spot was going to be open. And until I really
understood that intuitively, I really couldn't become a great quarterback.
So you're right, those kinds of things don't happen very
often in college at all. And along those lines, the
that phrase throwing a guy open, right. I worked with
(09:04):
Brian Greasy for a couple of years doing college football
for ESPN and had a lot of great conversations with
him about quarterback play and what your eyes have to
be able to tell you pre snap, post snap, all
of that. You know, Brock, Youward, Dan Orlovsky like guys
that have played quarterback at a very high level. And
I remember Greece saying that in high school, a wide
(09:24):
receiver was open when he would run a post, run
a slant, you picked the route, run a nine route,
and he would have like seven or eight ten ft
of separation between he and the guy covering him. And
then I got to college and realized, well, if that
guy's got about a yard of separation, then he's open.
Like I still have to deliver an accurate ball, maybe
the defensive back catches up, but I can see he's open.
(09:45):
He's got about a yard a sliver of room. In
the NFL, I had to throw balls two guys I
couldn't see because they were open. Because that's the NFL
version of being open. I can't even see the guy
I'm throwing too, that's how tight the coverage is. But
you know what, by NFL standards, he's open and I
have to be able to make that throw. And that's why,
And again I'm not the only one, but that's why
(10:07):
I always when I take notes about a quarterback, use
the terms either ball placement or ball location, which theoretically
becomes a subset of accuracy. You know, because you have
to be so precise with certain throws with your ball
location that you nailed it. I mean, it's if it's
man coverage, you know. It's funny. I remember again you know,
(10:27):
not to name drop and all that, But I love
these conversations. This is what I try to do so
I can learn. I remember years ago having a conversation
with Troy Aikman, who may have been as accurate a
thrower as we've seen for a guy that had a
power arm um, and he said, hey, if it's man
to man coverage and your receivers are not getting open,
you know you still have to throw the ball because
(10:49):
it's man coverage, he says, then you need new receivers,
not a new quarterback, but the fans always think it's
the quarterback's fall and because there's just you know, receivers
have to create just enough space and it's not a
lot of space, but it's just enough space where the
quarterback can place the ball. And you have to be
able to do that as a quarterback at the NFL level.
(11:10):
If you can't do that, you're going to miss too
many throws. Remember brock Heward backed up Peyton in Indie
for two or three years. Remember the more was the
offensive coordinator, And I remember brock Heward had a whole
bunch of Tom Moore catchphrases that you know, we're like,
you know, the crumbs lead to the cookie, check down
to touchdown, all these things that you know that he
(11:32):
would go to explaining like the simplicity of football concepts
behind what we're calling. And I remember one of the
things that Rock said. Tom Moore always went to said, look,
as the media, the fans, a play doesn't work, everyone
kills the play caller, right, like what a dumb play call?
Everybody buries the offensive coordinator. Fire the offensive coordinator, what's
(11:54):
he doing call on that play? Said? Look, here's my job.
My job is to get you a one on one.
R that's my job. If I call a play and
I get you a one on one, I did my job.
Win You gotta go win it. So if I get
you wide receiver a one on one, hey, quarterback, I
got wide receiver one on one, he has to win
(12:15):
and you have to win by delivering the football. If
you guys can't do that, then I don't care what
plays I call, right like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't
matter what we what we scheme up, what's on the
white board, you know. And that's the challenge. In the NFL,
You're going against the best defensive players in the world
as well. And so yes, my job as a play
caller is to get you a one on one and
(12:36):
I'll do it at some point. Though that one on
one you have to go win it or none of
this is gonna work. And that's why it's really hard
to find guy's talented enough to do this. Let's take
a quick break and come back and talk about the
actual prospects, because you've got your top five quarterback prospects
for this draft, the final look before we start hearing
those names getting called on Thursday. If your team needs
(12:56):
a quarterback you're gonna want to hear with great coat.
Sell's final analysis of this class of signal callers brings
to the table. We're gonna do that when we come
back on tap Heeds Draft Season. All right, Boba shows
a great cost cell back tape Heeds Draft Season kind
of our final analysis pushing towards the first round on
(13:18):
Thursday night, the draft is finally here and Greg again
on In our first episode that dropped on Tuesday this week,
we touched on all of the other big position groups
and kind of left the quarterbacks still on the tree.
Today's the day we get to pick the trade. You
get to pick the fruit and tell everyone your top
quarterback prospects, how high you think they may go, and
who is really worthy of being a top of the
(13:42):
first round pick. Let's start with the guy that I think,
as you said even in our last episode, might be
the biggest mystery, the biggest X factor. You know, that
that raw material that if you're a quarterback coach or
offensive coordinator you probably love to get your hands on
and see if you can mold this clay. And that's
Malik Willis. Yeah, And I think, as I said, the
(14:02):
reason I believe that's the case. Is the feeling that
he can make those special plays that you can't teach.
I mean, he certainly has the athletic and throwing trades
to make special plays off second reaction movement. He's an
explosive athlete. He's an explosive mover. He has a great arm.
Uh So now you start to think, Okay, I draft him,
(14:24):
and I get into a third and nine in a
critical situation, the defense calls a great pressure concept and
and my quarterback has to move because the defense one
early in the down. Malik Willis can then do something,
and that's something might be very special. I think that's
the way a lot of people start to think now.
(14:45):
But then you have to balance that with can he
run the offense snap after snap after snap with needed efficiency?
Because that's the balance. That's what you have to figure out.
He's a really good pure thrower of the football. We
know he has a strong arm. He's an easy natural rower.
We've seen him make touch throws. We've seen him make
(15:06):
velocity throws. We've seen him make intermediate throws. We've seen
him make vertical throws. There's a lot there with Malik Willis.
So you can say that it's raw talent Bob versus
the refinement nuanced discipline. That's the paradigm. And there's no
answer to that until you get him to a team
(15:26):
and a coach. And that's why I've always been a
big believer in coaching at the quarterback position, even at
the NFL level. Is there a team or a coach
that you think is the right spot for Malik Willis
at least in the range where you think he actually
might get drafted, right? I mean, obviously, if you could
take him all the way back at the end of
the first round and sit him behind Matthew Stafford and
(15:48):
behind Tom Brady and let him those teams probably are
not going to be drafting high enough where Malik Willis
is still gonna be on the board. Right. You gotta
think a team, if not in the top ten, certainly
the top fifteen, is going if Malik Willis is there
to say the talent is just too much to pass up.
I want that player and we want to see what
we can do with him. Where what's the ideal spot
(16:09):
for him in the targeted range of teams you think
my draft Malik Willis. That's a great question because in
an ideal world, and the and the world is never
ideal when it comes to quarterbacks. As we know, we
can all remember the Jaguars drafting Blake Borders and saying
he's never going to see a snap as a rookie,
and then week three he's playing, or the Bear is
drafting Drabinsky and saying, oh, he's he's not going to
(16:30):
see the field his first season, and then he's starting
Week three or four. So we know that if Malik
Willis is a top ten draft choice, he is going
to play as a rookie somewhere along the line. So
let's assume that that's the case. You know, I think
Carolina comes into play at six because I know Ben
McAdoo is there, and you know, people may have their
(16:54):
own opinions of Ben McAdoo, but he's a very good
quarterback coach. He spent a good amount of time in
Green Bay as the quarterback coach for Aaron Rodgers. Obvious,
he was with the Giants. He had the one year
they made the playoffs with Eli and then the second
year he got fired. I know he benched Eli and
that was you know, big news obviously in New York.
But Ben McAdoo has been doing this a long time.
(17:15):
He's a very good quarterback coach. He understands the position
extremely well. So that would be a good fit because
it comes down to who the coaches. Because Malik Willis,
and again it's not his fault, but the offense he
ran in college was not the kind of offense he'll
run in the NFL. He will have a transition to
(17:36):
learn a lot of things that are needed to be
learned to play quarterback at the NFL level. And by
the way, most college quarterbacks do some less than others
because of what they were asked to do in college.
But certainly Malik Willis will be one of those that
needs to learn a lot simply because of what he
was asked to do in college. All Right, if he's
(17:56):
got the highest ceiling, the player that we have all
said from day one probably is the most finished NFL
ready product, does Kenny Pickett? So do you see his
talent level his ceiling because he's probably the most known entity,
right Like, because he is as finished a product as
he is, you might have a much better feel for
(18:18):
how good he actually can be. Do teams think that
he can be worthy of being a top ten pick
will a team possibly reach for Kenny Pickett, figuring they'll
just get to the finish line with him faster than
maybe they will with any of these other guys. And
I gotta tell you I'm struggling with with Kenny Pickett.
Not not with my evaluation, which I'll tell you in
(18:38):
a moment, but with so many conversations I've had. Kenny
Pickett is all over people's boards. I mean, I know
people that say he's a third round pick. I know
people that think he's a really good prospect, and in
some ways compare him to Joe Burrow. And I'm trying
to figure out why people don't see Kenny Pickett as
a good prospect or is a higher level prospect. And
(19:00):
by the way, I'm not suggesting talent wise, no one
is saying, even if you really like him as I do,
no one's saying he's Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. So
let's let's clear that up right away. But I think
when you watch Kenny Pickett's tape from one, I think
you see a profile that has all the elements that
(19:22):
are demanded at the NFL level. He has vision, he
has progression reading skills, he has anticipation. He throws with timing.
The ball placement is pretty precise. It's not, let's say,
as precise as consistently as mac Jones from a year earlier,
but it's precise. He has the athleticism and mobility to
(19:43):
make second reaction plays. He's big. He's over six three,
he weighs two twenty, so there's a physical element to
his game. He's very well schooled in NFL route concepts.
Does he have a gun? No, he doesn't have a gun.
Is that his hand size a concern because he did
fumble a lot? Perhaps it is. But I think that
(20:07):
Kenny Pickett is a good prospect. Now, I've heard gms
and and evaluators tell me, well, is he the guy
that you're gonna want to give big money to for
a second contract. That's a hard question to answer because
you don't know where he's going to go, who he's
going to be playing with, and who's going to coach him.
But I think when you put on his twenty twenty
(20:28):
one tape, you see a quarterback who has NFL traits
that can play at a relatively high level. All right,
Matt corral Right, I mean he he seems to be
kind of almost a hybrid of Malik Willis and Kenny Pickett,
kind of somewhere in the middle. Like his physical capability,
his arm strength, his athleticism might be superior to Kenny Pickett,
(20:51):
but not as good as Malik Willis. But he probably
is more of a finished quarterback prospect at this point
than Malik Willis, but maybe not as polished as Kenny Pickett. Right.
He seems to check a lot of boxes, but as
an incomplete grade in a lot of different areas. Have
there been a lot of varying opinions on Matt Corral
For you, absolutely, and I'll give you mind because that's
(21:12):
all I can do, because I studied him last summer
and I studied him quite a bit this year. Well,
you have the only opinion I care about, so well,
thank you say that that should be the one we get.
I mean, he ran a highly schemed, tempo, high percentage
defined one read pass game, very strong emphasis on quick
rhythm throws off play action and run pass option r
(21:34):
p o s and the occasional deep shot. Now, obviously,
with any quarterback who throws it a lot, you will
see NFL route concept. So yes, did you see that
with Matt Corral and Lane Kiffin's offense. Of course you did,
but that was more the exception than the rule. So
this gets into the discussion of here's what he ran
(21:54):
in college. Now, what do you do with him in
the NFL, Because in the NFL is you know, Bob,
you can't live off r p os and you can't
live off just quick game throws. And he ran a
lot by design in college, which he will not do.
Now here's something that really struck me. He came in
at six one in five eights. I was blown away
(22:15):
by that because I think when I watched his tape
and the way in which he threw the ball with
kind of a low angle, because he's got a very
compact delivery, I thought he was gonna come in at
six ft at most because he throws low. And that
to me is I don't want to say it means
he can't play. But think of Drew Brees, a six
(22:36):
ft quarterback. Now, as I said, Corral six one in
five eights, but think of Drew Brees sort of getting
up on his toes and throwing over the top. You
can probably picture that, you know, Corral through with that
kind of tight snap, compact delivery that was low and
I'm wondering how that's going to play in the league
in those quick game kinds of throws when he has
(22:57):
to throw between the numbers and between the hashes. Again
a question, not saying he can't do it. It's just
something I think you have to discuss. We've talked about three,
We've got two more to go. We'll take a quick
break and then maybe get kind of that wide angle
lens of the teams we think are most likely to
get one of these quarterbacks that are in most need
of one of these quarterbacks, and could all five possibly
(23:20):
go in the first round. We've talked about three, two
more to go and a wide angle look at the
quarterback class. When we come back on TAPEDS Draft season,
Bobo shows and Gregg cosal back on TAPEDS Draft season,
it's almost Draft night, and the quarterbacks, they are always
the hottest of topics, even in a year where the
(23:40):
quarterback class isn't thought to be that deep. And this
is certainly a year where we may get five quarterbacks
going in the first round. You might get guys slipping
into the second round or beyond, who knows. We talked
about three greg a moment ago two more kind of
on that top tier list, And you mentioned Drew Brees
setting the standard for you know, it seemly for the
(24:02):
last fifteen years, anytime a quarterback was too short, We're
thought to be too short, everyone said, well, Drew Brees, right, Drew,
Look look at Drew Brees. He can do this at
six ft tall. There's a reason that Drew Brees was
the outlier. Are there's a reason that the teams didn't
draft six ft tall quarterbacks because for the longest time
he was the only guy doing it basically, But then
(24:23):
along came Russell Wilson. That led to guys like Kyler
Murray and and Baker Mayfield getting drafted with the top
overall picks. So quarterbacks are definitely thought of differently now
than they were even five, seven, eight years ago. So
Sam Howell from North Carolina, I think a very interesting
prospect because the first thing you're going to see is
(24:44):
Sam how looks like a short quarterback by NFL standards.
Can he overcome that maybe in the same way that
Matt Karl kent. And it's funny you say that, because
that's what teams do. They look at track record. They
look at what's been successful and what hasn't been Bob,
and they see that Sam Howill is six ft tall,
and if he's to be successful in the NFL, even
(25:06):
though he does have movement ability, he's not Russell Wilson,
he's not Kyler Murray, he's going to have to be
successful as a pocket quarterback. And then you look back
in the history of the league, just as you said,
how many six ft quarterbacks have been really successful? We
know Breeze first ballot Hall of Famer Baker Mayfield's in
a total state of limbo right now, and he's in
(25:27):
a state of limbo because he hasn't had the success
that was expected. So now you look at Sam Howell,
who has some very positive traits, by the way, but
he's a six foot pocket quarterback. And that's where the
rub comes in. That's where people pause because history suggests
that that's a very difficult thing to do, to be
(25:47):
a six foot pocket quarterback and succeed Desmond Ritter right
a totally different physical, you know, specimen than Sam how
He's kind of the taller, lankier, skinnier quarterback. Still a
very good athlete, but you know, he's gonna have to
be to protect himself because he looks like a guy
(26:09):
that could potentially at the NFL get broken in half.
At the same time, I know you've talked to teams
who believe that Desmond Ritter all of the character traits
around him make him really intriguing as well. Yeah, and
Desmond Ritter is one of those guys when you talk
to coaches the first thing they do is point to
their head and because they say, he's wired right, and
that's very important at the quarterback position. And I think
(26:31):
Ridder is one of those guys that has clear flaws,
Bob on Tape, clear flaws. I mean, he's by no
means a perfect prospect. He's got a little bit of
an elongated delivery. There's a lot of motion in his
delivery that impacted his ball placement. He had a tendency
to drop his arm angle and again impacting ball placement.
So he missed too many layups and that's an obvious concern.
(26:52):
You can't miss layups in the NFL and be a
higher level quarterback. But there's also a poise to to Ridder,
a composure to Ritter. There's a sense of him understanding
how to play the position. He will stay in the pocket.
He does not just leave the pocket, even though he
has mobility. He ran a well structured pass game. You
saw NFL throws, so there's there's much to like about
(27:16):
Desmond Ritter. But if he does not clean up the
ball placement issues, the rest doesn't matter. Because you can
do everything right as a quarterback and you can have
great poise, great composure, Bob, but if you can't throw
the ball where you want to, especially in the NFL,
then we know you can't play. So Ritter is one
of those guys that people really like because they really
(27:39):
like him and they think there's something there as do I.
By the way, but when all said and done, those
issues must be cleaned up or it's going to be
difficult for him to be a consistent staughter in the league.
We've touched on all the guys that's really kind of
the top five. We're not the mock draft podcast, so
to speak. But do you believe that these are first
(28:02):
round word players? If of the five, If that's so,
how many and where do you think some of these
players may fall? What teams, uh the quarterback needy teams
do you think are going to be in a position
where they're going to be convinced that one of these
five players is for them. Fascinating question because you have
what you hope someone could be versus what someone is
(28:25):
now with the belief that he may not get a
whole lot better. So, and I'm talking about, of course,
Malik Willison, Kenny Pickett, and I'm looking at Carolina at six.
You know Matt rule, and again I don't know what
the owner thinks. There's a general feeling that Matt rules
on the clock. I don't discuss whether you know that
with coaches at all. That's not my thing. But if
(28:45):
that's true, then the question becomes do they want to
go into the season with Sam Donald as their starting quarterback?
You know Sam Donald very well from his time with
the Jets. He really hasn't changed much from day one
through year four. So do they want to do that?
Or they feel, Hey, if we draft Kenny Pickett, we
(29:06):
have someone we can line up with tomorrow and maybe
that gives us a little breathing room. I think Atlanta
at eight has far too many needs. They did sign
Marcus Mariota, not that he's the answer per se, but
they have so many needs. Then you get to you know,
I think Houston is fine with Davis Mills. What is
(29:27):
Seattle going to do? I think that's there the there
the wild card to me, because they could draft a
quarterback clearly, or they could not based on maybe Pete
Carol thinking, hey, let's really shore up that defense. We
resigned with Shot Penny. We're gonna play old school football
and run the ball. They could easily think that there's
(29:48):
Pittsburgh at I guess Pittsburgh's a twenty. Obviously, they signed
Mitchell Robinsky, it's a two year deal, it's not a
big money deal. They could easily look to a quarterback
of the future. So, you know, I think there's teams
that you could easily say a would be in the
market for a quarterback. And just as you said when
we started all of this, the question becomes if you
(30:12):
don't have one, you know, let's put it this way.
Taking nothing away from the Pittsburgh Steelers, are they in
the minds of most people? You know, you're you work
in the in the a f C doing the Jets.
Are the Pittsburgh Steelers competing with Cincinnati, Buffalo Chargers, Kansas City?
(30:32):
Are they competing at that level with Mitchell Trobinsky, right,
not anytime soon? Right? So, And I don't think it's
no knock on anybody. I think we're just talking facts here.
So if that's the case, then do they look at
a quarterback and maybe this isn't the year in their mind,
but do they look at a quarterback and say, God,
if we draft Sam Howell and we think he can
(30:53):
really reach his potential, we just think he's better than
Mitchell Trobinsky. And obviously I'm just throwing that out. Well, No,
I mean I think I think the point is and
you can almost take that theme and apply it to
like seven other teams in the top fifteen, right, Like
the Texans, do they really believe in Davis Mills? They
have a quarterback? Do they really believe in Davis Mills? Right?
(31:16):
Do the Falcons really believe in Marcus Mariota? To the
Seahawks really believe and Drew Lock? Does Washington really believe
in Carson Wentz? To the Vikings really believe in a
player that you know, I think has basically been the
embodiment of eight and eight, nine and seven walking his
(31:37):
entire career in Kirk Cousins, Right, I mean, I don't
care what numbers he puts up. Every team he's on
is right around five hundred, maybe a game over, maybe
a game under. He's a five hundred quarterback basically. That
that's what he is like. His team never never goes
to the playoffs, it never wins anything. And by the way,
who puts up really good numbers every year? Yeah, he
puts up really good numbers, but the team never goes
(31:57):
to the playoffs, never wins anything. So I think you've
got a lot of guys on this list, even a
Giants with Daniel Jones. All Right, they've got a young quarterback,
but do they really believe in Daniel Jones. It's a
whole new coaching staff, a whole new regime. So I
think it's a fascinating draft from a quarterback perspective, where
there are not the clear cut guys, the guys that
(32:20):
are no brainers to take in the top five, which
is a very unusual draft. Normally there's at least a
couple of quarterbacks where everyone says, yes, this is a
guy that has to go on the top ten, has
to go on the top five, this guy might be
the first pick in the draft. None of these guys
are in that category. But also you've got seven or
eight teams picking that it would be fascinating to be
(32:45):
a fly on the wall in the draft room to
hear the competing opinions when right when the truth serum
is delivered, when there's no fear of anyone outside that
room getting wind of what you're saying, where you can
really speak the truth. How many of these general managers,
when they lay down their head on the loo at night,
really truly believe in the guy they've got. And what
(33:08):
you'll find out is if one of those teams that
has a Carson Wentz or you know, Mitchell Trobinsky or
a Marcus Mariota, whatever, one of those teams you have
to imagine is going to take one of these quarterbacks.
It just always happens. Yeah, and I think that your
point is right. I mean, look, I think Pittsburgh is
(33:28):
really a litmus test here because Pittsburgh has some good players.
They've got a good team overall, as we know, and
they obviously needed a quarterback. Has Big been retired, so
they signed Mitchell Trobinsky. But how do they feel about
that given the conference that they're in and that the
quarterbacks and teams that they would have to leap frog
(33:49):
to get to a super Bowl, and they pick twenty right,
like even the guys they want might be off the
board by some of these other teams that are having
that internal debate before they even get a chance to
pull the trigger on a quarterback. It is gonna be fascinating.
And look, it's finally here, right, We're actually gonna get
some answers, not do distant future. Thankfully we are back tomorrow.
(34:10):
We'll have a full week of tape heeds draft season.
Thursday's Draft Day. We will be joined by former GM
Rick Spielman. They'll tell us what teams are doing in
the hours leading up to making their picks and also
what he has in terms of just his overall evaluation
of these quarterbacks and how he thinks the top prospects
are going to fall. So we'll have a former general
(34:30):
manager on with us. Be sure to join us on
Thursday when we finally arrive at Draft Day. And thanks
for being a tape ped
Tape Eds. It's a production of I Heart Media and
the NFL. Welcome to a brand new edition of tape
Heeds Draft season. We are only as we record this
and drop it to you about a day and a
half away from the cards being turned in. It is
almost time to finally pull the curtain on this two
(00:26):
NFL draft. Been a long time coming. Bobo Schusen, longtime
radio voice of the New York Jets, also college football
for ESPN, and Greg co Sell for over four decades
breaking down the old twenty two at NFL Films and Greg.
We spent a lot of time in the episode that
dropped on Tuesday about all of the position groups, certainly
focusing on the first round ran again through the pass rushers,
(00:49):
the corners, the tackles, some one offs like Kyle Hamilton
at safety and Tyler Linderbaum as a as a center.
The wide receiver class really intriguing um in this draft
as well. The one position group that we saved for
today that we did talk extensively about in our last
episode the quarterbacks. And the quarterbacks always are the position
(01:11):
that and you've said this from the moment we started
this podcast, there are two drafts there's a draft for
all the positions in the NFL, and then there's a
draft for the quarterbacks. Right, It's the value of the
quarterback changes the math for teams in terms of how
they take a guy that might be a question mark
and evaluate their need of that player. And so that's
(01:33):
why you hear every year people that analyze the draft saying, well,
they reached, they reached. Well, that's because teams are so
desperate to get their hands on a franchise guy that
if they see a player they even have a little
bit of belief in. You know, that player at any
other position group might be a second or third round pick.
If he's a quarterback, he's probably gonna go on the
(01:54):
top ten. And you mentioned Malik Willis as the jumping
off point in our last episode of the guy you
think has the highest ceiling physically and maybe a reach player.
But at least before we get of the specific names,
let's start with why teams are having a tough time
with this class. And you know, when you evaluate what
a player does in college, you know has to do
in the NFL as a quarterback, that's a tough evaluation
(02:17):
for some of these teams to make yeah, that is
part of the process, which is really really difficult, Bob,
because ultimately what you see in college football are a
lot of I don't want to say simple things because
that would be really, you know, minimizing what coaches do,
and I don't want to do that. The game is
not quite as detailed and as nuanced at the college
(02:39):
level for many reasons as it is at the NFL level.
And if you draft a quarterback high, and essentially if
you do, he's going to be your starter as a rookie,
those days where you draft a quarterback in the top five,
let's say, and he doesn't play, those days are over.
So if you draft a quarterback that way and you
(02:59):
have to play him, then what can he x acute
at a level that allows you to run your offense?
And that becomes a big question because a lot of
these quarterbacks in college are not asked to do things
that our direct correlation with what they're going to be
ideally asked to do in the NFL. And I've had
(03:21):
this conversation with quarterback coaches is you have to then
run an offense that they're comfortable with so that they
can feel good and that they can execute and Obviously,
it limits what you can do with your playbook and
in some ways makes you much easier to defend. So
there's a balance there. And then the second part of
(03:43):
that question, Bob, is how long does it take for
the quarterback to then learn so that the playbook can
be truly expanded and your offense can become far more
multidimensional and you can do more things that pressure and
stress defenses. And this is all part of the equation.
We can all see when a guy has a big arm,
(04:03):
we can all see when a guy has great athletic talent.
That's not the difficult part of the equation. The equation
is has to do with subtlety, nuance, detail. And I
understand what you're saying. And I've made this kind of
analogy to people before. I'll see if you agree with it.
Where again, you don't want to insult the intelligence the
complexity of playing college quarterback, right Like, it's hard to
(04:26):
play quarterback in the SEC, it's hard to play quarterback
in the big tent. Trying to play quarterback anywhere, yeah,
I mean, you're going up against really really talented players
and they're trying to fool you, and you're trying to
fool them. And there's a lot of check with me.
In college, there's a lot of pre snap post snap diagnosis.
I mean, you're the analogy I've used before. It's almost
(04:47):
like you're taking high school or college level calculus. I
couldn't do that, right, Like, you need to be really
smart to do that. But now you're going to the NFL.
Now we're asking you, can you be like a NASA scientist? Right?
So what you're doing in high school and college still hard,
still difficult, few people can do it. But now to
go to the NFL and execute mentally at the level
(05:08):
of a Matthew Stafford, of a Tom Brady, of an
Aaron Rodgers, of a Russell Wilson. Right, the guys that
we know can computer arize, you know, Patrick Mahomes, the
guys that can look at the defense and see before
the snap, no matter how many times you try and
change the picture. I got it. I see what you're in,
I know where I'm going, I know how I'm going
to fool you in the NFL. That's a whole different
(05:32):
level of brain power. And you're right, I mean, you
don't want to insult the level of intelligence of a
college quarterback is so hard to do. But the NFL,
and again trying to as a general manager to coach,
take the guy from college and figure out can this
guy do that at the NFL level? And how hard
that is. There's a lot more for one of a
(05:53):
better term right now. Easy throws in college that can
help a quarterback if you feel that he's a little uncomfortable.
Don't forget you can always throw a bubble or a
tunnel screen to a wide side of the screen, white
side of the field in college football because it's so wide,
those are easy completions. The one thing that and I
know we spoke about this probably five or six weeks ago,
(06:15):
but the other thing that is really a major adjustment
for quarterbacks coming into the NFL, and you've got to
deal with this as a coach in how you design
your pass game and call your plays, particularly in critical
type situations third and eight, third and nine, is you
have to make throws in the middle of the field
(06:35):
in the NFL. In college, you don't have to make
anywhere near the number of throws in the middle of
the field. And the middle of the field is tight
because the hash marks are closer together in the NFL.
So those throws, it looks like there's a hell of
a lot of defenders there, Bob, It probably looks like
there's fifteen defenders sitting in the middle of the field.
(06:55):
Some quarterbacks are never comfortable with that as they advance
in their NFL career because it's just those are really
difficult rows. So there's so many things that go beyond
just a simple list of traits. Oh, he can spin it,
you know. We know Matt Corral can spin it. We
know that Malik Willis has a hand cannon. We know this.
(07:17):
But it goes way beyond that to determine whether quarterbacks
will be successful at the NFL level and accuracy right,
like being able to throw the ball and basically hit
a dinner plate from twenty five yards away, throwing with anticipation.
How many great quarterbacks in the NFL do you see
The ball is out of their hands, not even before
(07:38):
a wide receiver gets his head around, before a wide
receiver even gets to like the stem of his route,
the ball is out of the quarterback's hand because he
knows the spot of the field that ball has to
be delivered to where that player is going to eventually
end up that is, Bob, you just hit on an
unbelievable point. And I'm glad you did because I learned
this from Ron Jaworski, who I started working with maybe
(07:59):
in nine or ninety. There's spot throws, jaws. You to
tell me that there were certain throws, and I'm not
just talking about four yard throws. I'm talking about like
a deeper out or certain throws. He said, I could
have had a blindfold on and made those throws because
I practiced them so much. And I'm throwing to a spot,
and that's something you don't see a lot of in
(08:19):
college football. So you're a hundred percent right. There are
throws that you have to turn loose your receiver hasn't
even turned around yet. I had a great discussion years
and years ago with Steve Young about the same thing
in Bill Walsh's offense. He said, I did not become
a great quarterback until I understood that I had to
throw the ball to a spot before my receiver was
(08:42):
even close to that spot. And I just had to
understand that he was going to be there and that
spot was going to be open. And until I really
understood that intuitively, I really couldn't become a great quarterback.
So you're right, those kinds of things don't happen very
often in college at all. And along those lines, the
that phrase throwing a guy open, right. I worked with
(09:04):
Brian Greasy for a couple of years doing college football
for ESPN and had a lot of great conversations with
him about quarterback play and what your eyes have to
be able to tell you pre snap, post snap, all
of that. You know, Brock, Youward, Dan Orlovsky like guys
that have played quarterback at a very high level. And
I remember Greece saying that in high school, a wide
(09:24):
receiver was open when he would run a post, run
a slant, you picked the route, run a nine route,
and he would have like seven or eight ten ft
of separation between he and the guy covering him. And
then I got to college and realized, well, if that
guy's got about a yard of separation, then he's open.
Like I still have to deliver an accurate ball, maybe
the defensive back catches up, but I can see he's open.
(09:45):
He's got about a yard a sliver of room. In
the NFL, I had to throw balls two guys I
couldn't see because they were open. Because that's the NFL
version of being open. I can't even see the guy
I'm throwing too, that's how tight the coverage is. But
you know what, by NFL standards, he's open and I
have to be able to make that throw. And that's why,
And again I'm not the only one, but that's why
(10:07):
I always when I take notes about a quarterback, use
the terms either ball placement or ball location, which theoretically
becomes a subset of accuracy. You know, because you have
to be so precise with certain throws with your ball
location that you nailed it. I mean, it's if it's
man coverage, you know. It's funny. I remember again you know,
(10:27):
not to name drop and all that, But I love
these conversations. This is what I try to do so
I can learn. I remember years ago having a conversation
with Troy Aikman, who may have been as accurate a
thrower as we've seen for a guy that had a
power arm um, and he said, hey, if it's man
to man coverage and your receivers are not getting open,
you know you still have to throw the ball because
(10:49):
it's man coverage, he says, then you need new receivers,
not a new quarterback, but the fans always think it's
the quarterback's fall and because there's just you know, receivers
have to create just enough space and it's not a
lot of space, but it's just enough space where the
quarterback can place the ball. And you have to be
able to do that as a quarterback at the NFL level.
(11:10):
If you can't do that, you're going to miss too
many throws. Remember brock Heward backed up Peyton in Indie
for two or three years. Remember the more was the
offensive coordinator, And I remember brock Heward had a whole
bunch of Tom Moore catchphrases that you know, we're like,
you know, the crumbs lead to the cookie, check down
to touchdown, all these things that you know that he
(11:32):
would go to explaining like the simplicity of football concepts
behind what we're calling. And I remember one of the
things that Rock said. Tom Moore always went to said, look,
as the media, the fans, a play doesn't work, everyone
kills the play caller, right, like what a dumb play call?
Everybody buries the offensive coordinator. Fire the offensive coordinator, what's
(11:54):
he doing call on that play? Said? Look, here's my job.
My job is to get you a one on one.
R that's my job. If I call a play and
I get you a one on one, I did my job.
Win You gotta go win it. So if I get
you wide receiver a one on one, hey, quarterback, I
got wide receiver one on one, he has to win
(12:15):
and you have to win by delivering the football. If
you guys can't do that, then I don't care what
plays I call, right like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't
matter what we what we scheme up, what's on the
white board, you know. And that's the challenge. In the NFL,
You're going against the best defensive players in the world
as well. And so yes, my job as a play
caller is to get you a one on one and
(12:36):
I'll do it at some point. Though that one on
one you have to go win it or none of
this is gonna work. And that's why it's really hard
to find guy's talented enough to do this. Let's take
a quick break and come back and talk about the
actual prospects, because you've got your top five quarterback prospects
for this draft, the final look before we start hearing
those names getting called on Thursday. If your team needs
(12:56):
a quarterback you're gonna want to hear with great coat.
Sell's final analysis of this class of signal callers brings
to the table. We're gonna do that when we come
back on tap Heeds Draft Season. All right, Boba shows
a great cost cell back tape Heeds Draft Season kind
of our final analysis pushing towards the first round on
(13:18):
Thursday night, the draft is finally here and Greg again
on In our first episode that dropped on Tuesday this week,
we touched on all of the other big position groups
and kind of left the quarterbacks still on the tree.
Today's the day we get to pick the trade. You
get to pick the fruit and tell everyone your top
quarterback prospects, how high you think they may go, and
who is really worthy of being a top of the
(13:42):
first round pick. Let's start with the guy that I think,
as you said even in our last episode, might be
the biggest mystery, the biggest X factor. You know, that
that raw material that if you're a quarterback coach or
offensive coordinator you probably love to get your hands on
and see if you can mold this clay. And that's
Malik Willis. Yeah, And I think, as I said, the
(14:02):
reason I believe that's the case. Is the feeling that
he can make those special plays that you can't teach.
I mean, he certainly has the athletic and throwing trades
to make special plays off second reaction movement. He's an
explosive athlete. He's an explosive mover. He has a great arm.
Uh So now you start to think, Okay, I draft him,
(14:24):
and I get into a third and nine in a
critical situation, the defense calls a great pressure concept and
and my quarterback has to move because the defense one
early in the down. Malik Willis can then do something,
and that's something might be very special. I think that's
the way a lot of people start to think now.
(14:45):
But then you have to balance that with can he
run the offense snap after snap after snap with needed efficiency?
Because that's the balance. That's what you have to figure out.
He's a really good pure thrower of the football. We
know he has a strong arm. He's an easy natural rower.
We've seen him make touch throws. We've seen him make
(15:06):
velocity throws. We've seen him make intermediate throws. We've seen
him make vertical throws. There's a lot there with Malik Willis.
So you can say that it's raw talent Bob versus
the refinement nuanced discipline. That's the paradigm. And there's no
answer to that until you get him to a team
(15:26):
and a coach. And that's why I've always been a
big believer in coaching at the quarterback position, even at
the NFL level. Is there a team or a coach
that you think is the right spot for Malik Willis
at least in the range where you think he actually
might get drafted, right? I mean, obviously, if you could
take him all the way back at the end of
the first round and sit him behind Matthew Stafford and
(15:48):
behind Tom Brady and let him those teams probably are
not going to be drafting high enough where Malik Willis
is still gonna be on the board. Right. You gotta
think a team, if not in the top ten, certainly
the top fifteen, is going if Malik Willis is there
to say the talent is just too much to pass up.
I want that player and we want to see what
we can do with him. Where what's the ideal spot
(16:09):
for him in the targeted range of teams you think
my draft Malik Willis. That's a great question because in
an ideal world, and the and the world is never
ideal when it comes to quarterbacks. As we know, we
can all remember the Jaguars drafting Blake Borders and saying
he's never going to see a snap as a rookie,
and then week three he's playing, or the Bear is
drafting Drabinsky and saying, oh, he's he's not going to
(16:30):
see the field his first season, and then he's starting
Week three or four. So we know that if Malik
Willis is a top ten draft choice, he is going
to play as a rookie somewhere along the line. So
let's assume that that's the case. You know, I think
Carolina comes into play at six because I know Ben
McAdoo is there, and you know, people may have their
(16:54):
own opinions of Ben McAdoo, but he's a very good
quarterback coach. He spent a good amount of time in
Green Bay as the quarterback coach for Aaron Rodgers. Obvious,
he was with the Giants. He had the one year
they made the playoffs with Eli and then the second
year he got fired. I know he benched Eli and
that was you know, big news obviously in New York.
But Ben McAdoo has been doing this a long time.
(17:15):
He's a very good quarterback coach. He understands the position
extremely well. So that would be a good fit because
it comes down to who the coaches. Because Malik Willis,
and again it's not his fault, but the offense he
ran in college was not the kind of offense he'll
run in the NFL. He will have a transition to
(17:36):
learn a lot of things that are needed to be
learned to play quarterback at the NFL level. And by
the way, most college quarterbacks do some less than others
because of what they were asked to do in college.
But certainly Malik Willis will be one of those that
needs to learn a lot simply because of what he
was asked to do in college. All Right, if he's
(17:56):
got the highest ceiling, the player that we have all
said from day one probably is the most finished NFL
ready product, does Kenny Pickett? So do you see his
talent level his ceiling because he's probably the most known entity,
right Like, because he is as finished a product as
he is, you might have a much better feel for
(18:18):
how good he actually can be. Do teams think that
he can be worthy of being a top ten pick
will a team possibly reach for Kenny Pickett, figuring they'll
just get to the finish line with him faster than
maybe they will with any of these other guys. And
I gotta tell you I'm struggling with with Kenny Pickett.
Not not with my evaluation, which I'll tell you in
(18:38):
a moment, but with so many conversations I've had. Kenny
Pickett is all over people's boards. I mean, I know
people that say he's a third round pick. I know
people that think he's a really good prospect, and in
some ways compare him to Joe Burrow. And I'm trying
to figure out why people don't see Kenny Pickett as
a good prospect or is a higher level prospect. And
(19:00):
by the way, I'm not suggesting talent wise, no one
is saying, even if you really like him as I do,
no one's saying he's Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes. So
let's let's clear that up right away. But I think
when you watch Kenny Pickett's tape from one, I think
you see a profile that has all the elements that
(19:22):
are demanded at the NFL level. He has vision, he
has progression reading skills, he has anticipation. He throws with timing.
The ball placement is pretty precise. It's not, let's say,
as precise as consistently as mac Jones from a year earlier,
but it's precise. He has the athleticism and mobility to
(19:43):
make second reaction plays. He's big. He's over six three,
he weighs two twenty, so there's a physical element to
his game. He's very well schooled in NFL route concepts.
Does he have a gun? No, he doesn't have a gun.
Is that his hand size a concern because he did
fumble a lot? Perhaps it is. But I think that
(20:07):
Kenny Pickett is a good prospect. Now, I've heard gms
and and evaluators tell me, well, is he the guy
that you're gonna want to give big money to for
a second contract. That's a hard question to answer because
you don't know where he's going to go, who he's
going to be playing with, and who's going to coach him.
But I think when you put on his twenty twenty
(20:28):
one tape, you see a quarterback who has NFL traits
that can play at a relatively high level. All right,
Matt corral Right, I mean he he seems to be
kind of almost a hybrid of Malik Willis and Kenny Pickett,
kind of somewhere in the middle. Like his physical capability,
his arm strength, his athleticism might be superior to Kenny Pickett,
(20:51):
but not as good as Malik Willis. But he probably
is more of a finished quarterback prospect at this point
than Malik Willis, but maybe not as polished as Kenny Pickett. Right.
He seems to check a lot of boxes, but as
an incomplete grade in a lot of different areas. Have
there been a lot of varying opinions on Matt Corral
For you, absolutely, and I'll give you mind because that's
(21:12):
all I can do, because I studied him last summer
and I studied him quite a bit this year. Well,
you have the only opinion I care about, so well,
thank you say that that should be the one we get.
I mean, he ran a highly schemed, tempo, high percentage
defined one read pass game, very strong emphasis on quick
rhythm throws off play action and run pass option r
(21:34):
p o s and the occasional deep shot. Now, obviously,
with any quarterback who throws it a lot, you will
see NFL route concept. So yes, did you see that
with Matt Corral and Lane Kiffin's offense. Of course you did,
but that was more the exception than the rule. So
this gets into the discussion of here's what he ran
(21:54):
in college. Now, what do you do with him in
the NFL, Because in the NFL is you know, Bob,
you can't live off r p os and you can't
live off just quick game throws. And he ran a
lot by design in college, which he will not do.
Now here's something that really struck me. He came in
at six one in five eights. I was blown away
(22:15):
by that because I think when I watched his tape
and the way in which he threw the ball with
kind of a low angle, because he's got a very
compact delivery, I thought he was gonna come in at
six ft at most because he throws low. And that
to me is I don't want to say it means
he can't play. But think of Drew Brees, a six
(22:36):
ft quarterback. Now, as I said, Corral six one in
five eights, but think of Drew Brees sort of getting
up on his toes and throwing over the top. You
can probably picture that, you know, Corral through with that
kind of tight snap, compact delivery that was low and
I'm wondering how that's going to play in the league
in those quick game kinds of throws when he has
(22:57):
to throw between the numbers and between the hashes. Again
a question, not saying he can't do it. It's just
something I think you have to discuss. We've talked about three,
We've got two more to go. We'll take a quick
break and then maybe get kind of that wide angle
lens of the teams we think are most likely to
get one of these quarterbacks that are in most need
of one of these quarterbacks, and could all five possibly
(23:20):
go in the first round. We've talked about three, two
more to go and a wide angle look at the
quarterback class. When we come back on TAPEDS Draft season,
Bobo shows and Gregg cosal back on TAPEDS Draft season,
it's almost Draft night, and the quarterbacks, they are always
the hottest of topics, even in a year where the
(23:40):
quarterback class isn't thought to be that deep. And this
is certainly a year where we may get five quarterbacks
going in the first round. You might get guys slipping
into the second round or beyond, who knows. We talked
about three greg a moment ago two more kind of
on that top tier list, And you mentioned Drew Brees
setting the standard for you know, it seemly for the
(24:02):
last fifteen years, anytime a quarterback was too short, We're
thought to be too short, everyone said, well, Drew Brees, right, Drew,
Look look at Drew Brees. He can do this at
six ft tall. There's a reason that Drew Brees was
the outlier. Are there's a reason that the teams didn't
draft six ft tall quarterbacks because for the longest time
he was the only guy doing it basically, But then
(24:23):
along came Russell Wilson. That led to guys like Kyler
Murray and and Baker Mayfield getting drafted with the top
overall picks. So quarterbacks are definitely thought of differently now
than they were even five, seven, eight years ago. So
Sam Howell from North Carolina, I think a very interesting
prospect because the first thing you're going to see is
(24:44):
Sam how looks like a short quarterback by NFL standards.
Can he overcome that maybe in the same way that
Matt Karl kent. And it's funny you say that, because
that's what teams do. They look at track record. They
look at what's been successful and what hasn't been Bob,
and they see that Sam Howill is six ft tall,
and if he's to be successful in the NFL, even
(25:06):
though he does have movement ability, he's not Russell Wilson,
he's not Kyler Murray, he's going to have to be
successful as a pocket quarterback. And then you look back
in the history of the league, just as you said,
how many six ft quarterbacks have been really successful? We
know Breeze first ballot Hall of Famer Baker Mayfield's in
a total state of limbo right now, and he's in
(25:27):
a state of limbo because he hasn't had the success
that was expected. So now you look at Sam Howell,
who has some very positive traits, by the way, but
he's a six foot pocket quarterback. And that's where the
rub comes in. That's where people pause because history suggests
that that's a very difficult thing to do, to be
(25:47):
a six foot pocket quarterback and succeed Desmond Ritter right
a totally different physical, you know, specimen than Sam how
He's kind of the taller, lankier, skinnier quarterback. Still a
very good athlete, but you know, he's gonna have to
be to protect himself because he looks like a guy
(26:09):
that could potentially at the NFL get broken in half.
At the same time, I know you've talked to teams
who believe that Desmond Ritter all of the character traits
around him make him really intriguing as well. Yeah, and
Desmond Ritter is one of those guys when you talk
to coaches the first thing they do is point to
their head and because they say, he's wired right, and
that's very important at the quarterback position. And I think
(26:31):
Ridder is one of those guys that has clear flaws,
Bob on Tape, clear flaws. I mean, he's by no
means a perfect prospect. He's got a little bit of
an elongated delivery. There's a lot of motion in his
delivery that impacted his ball placement. He had a tendency
to drop his arm angle and again impacting ball placement.
So he missed too many layups and that's an obvious concern.
(26:52):
You can't miss layups in the NFL and be a
higher level quarterback. But there's also a poise to to Ridder,
a composure to Ritter. There's a sense of him understanding
how to play the position. He will stay in the pocket.
He does not just leave the pocket, even though he
has mobility. He ran a well structured pass game. You
saw NFL throws, so there's there's much to like about
(27:16):
Desmond Ritter. But if he does not clean up the
ball placement issues, the rest doesn't matter. Because you can
do everything right as a quarterback and you can have
great poise, great composure, Bob, but if you can't throw
the ball where you want to, especially in the NFL,
then we know you can't play. So Ritter is one
of those guys that people really like because they really
(27:39):
like him and they think there's something there as do I.
By the way, but when all said and done, those
issues must be cleaned up or it's going to be
difficult for him to be a consistent staughter in the league.
We've touched on all the guys that's really kind of
the top five. We're not the mock draft podcast, so
to speak. But do you believe that these are first
(28:02):
round word players? If of the five, If that's so,
how many and where do you think some of these
players may fall? What teams, uh the quarterback needy teams
do you think are going to be in a position
where they're going to be convinced that one of these
five players is for them. Fascinating question because you have
what you hope someone could be versus what someone is
(28:25):
now with the belief that he may not get a
whole lot better. So, and I'm talking about, of course,
Malik Willison, Kenny Pickett, and I'm looking at Carolina at six.
You know Matt rule, and again I don't know what
the owner thinks. There's a general feeling that Matt rules
on the clock. I don't discuss whether you know that
with coaches at all. That's not my thing. But if
(28:45):
that's true, then the question becomes do they want to
go into the season with Sam Donald as their starting quarterback?
You know Sam Donald very well from his time with
the Jets. He really hasn't changed much from day one
through year four. So do they want to do that?
Or they feel, Hey, if we draft Kenny Pickett, we
(29:06):
have someone we can line up with tomorrow and maybe
that gives us a little breathing room. I think Atlanta
at eight has far too many needs. They did sign
Marcus Mariota, not that he's the answer per se, but
they have so many needs. Then you get to you know,
I think Houston is fine with Davis Mills. What is
(29:27):
Seattle going to do? I think that's there the there
the wild card to me, because they could draft a
quarterback clearly, or they could not based on maybe Pete
Carol thinking, hey, let's really shore up that defense. We
resigned with Shot Penny. We're gonna play old school football
and run the ball. They could easily think that there's
(29:48):
Pittsburgh at I guess Pittsburgh's a twenty. Obviously, they signed
Mitchell Robinsky, it's a two year deal, it's not a
big money deal. They could easily look to a quarterback
of the future. So, you know, I think there's teams
that you could easily say a would be in the
market for a quarterback. And just as you said when
we started all of this, the question becomes if you
(30:12):
don't have one, you know, let's put it this way.
Taking nothing away from the Pittsburgh Steelers, are they in
the minds of most people? You know, you're you work
in the in the a f C doing the Jets.
Are the Pittsburgh Steelers competing with Cincinnati, Buffalo Chargers, Kansas City?
(30:32):
Are they competing at that level with Mitchell Trobinsky, right,
not anytime soon? Right? So, And I don't think it's
no knock on anybody. I think we're just talking facts here.
So if that's the case, then do they look at
a quarterback and maybe this isn't the year in their mind,
but do they look at a quarterback and say, God,
if we draft Sam Howell and we think he can
(30:53):
really reach his potential, we just think he's better than
Mitchell Trobinsky. And obviously I'm just throwing that out. Well, No,
I mean I think I think the point is and
you can almost take that theme and apply it to
like seven other teams in the top fifteen, right, Like
the Texans, do they really believe in Davis Mills? They
have a quarterback? Do they really believe in Davis Mills? Right?
(31:16):
Do the Falcons really believe in Marcus Mariota? To the
Seahawks really believe and Drew Lock? Does Washington really believe
in Carson Wentz? To the Vikings really believe in a
player that you know, I think has basically been the
embodiment of eight and eight, nine and seven walking his
(31:37):
entire career in Kirk Cousins, Right, I mean, I don't
care what numbers he puts up. Every team he's on
is right around five hundred, maybe a game over, maybe
a game under. He's a five hundred quarterback basically. That
that's what he is like. His team never never goes
to the playoffs, it never wins anything. And by the way,
who puts up really good numbers every year? Yeah, he
puts up really good numbers, but the team never goes
(31:57):
to the playoffs, never wins anything. So I think you've
got a lot of guys on this list, even a
Giants with Daniel Jones. All Right, they've got a young quarterback,
but do they really believe in Daniel Jones. It's a
whole new coaching staff, a whole new regime. So I
think it's a fascinating draft from a quarterback perspective, where
there are not the clear cut guys, the guys that
(32:20):
are no brainers to take in the top five, which
is a very unusual draft. Normally there's at least a
couple of quarterbacks where everyone says, yes, this is a
guy that has to go on the top ten, has
to go on the top five, this guy might be
the first pick in the draft. None of these guys
are in that category. But also you've got seven or
eight teams picking that it would be fascinating to be
(32:45):
a fly on the wall in the draft room to
hear the competing opinions when right when the truth serum
is delivered, when there's no fear of anyone outside that
room getting wind of what you're saying, where you can
really speak the truth. How many of these general managers,
when they lay down their head on the loo at night,
really truly believe in the guy they've got. And what
(33:08):
you'll find out is if one of those teams that
has a Carson Wentz or you know, Mitchell Trobinsky or
a Marcus Mariota, whatever, one of those teams you have
to imagine is going to take one of these quarterbacks.
It just always happens. Yeah, and I think that your
point is right. I mean, look, I think Pittsburgh is
(33:28):
really a litmus test here because Pittsburgh has some good players.
They've got a good team overall, as we know, and
they obviously needed a quarterback. Has Big been retired, so
they signed Mitchell Trobinsky. But how do they feel about
that given the conference that they're in and that the
quarterbacks and teams that they would have to leap frog
(33:49):
to get to a super Bowl, and they pick twenty right,
like even the guys they want might be off the
board by some of these other teams that are having
that internal debate before they even get a chance to
pull the trigger on a quarterback. It is gonna be fascinating.
And look, it's finally here, right, We're actually gonna get
some answers, not do distant future. Thankfully we are back tomorrow.
(34:10):
We'll have a full week of tape heeds draft season.
Thursday's Draft Day. We will be joined by former GM
Rick Spielman. They'll tell us what teams are doing in
the hours leading up to making their picks and also
what he has in terms of just his overall evaluation
of these quarterbacks and how he thinks the top prospects
are going to fall. So we'll have a former general
(34:30):
manager on with us. Be sure to join us on
Thursday when we finally arrive at Draft Day. And thanks
for being a tape ped
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