May 2, 2022 • 33 mins
The Tape Heads: Draft Season podcast welcomes CBS NFL Analyst Charles Davis to the show. Bob Wischusen and Greg Cosell discuss how QB's fell in the Draft and Charles believes teams just stuck to their evaluations. Charles says the Draft reinforced the thinking of getting players to assist or stop the QB. We turn to the impressive Draft for the Jets and how their players will impact this team. The Eagles also grabbed our attention with Howie Roseman making deals throughout the night. Charles tells us that Houston is his team that really pulled together a great draft without grabbing too many headlines. We wrap up with a look at Travon Walker going #1 and how he'll fit in the NFL.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tapeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and the NFL.
The draft is finally in the books, and so we
have a draft to react to here on TAPEDS Draft season.
Baba Shu was a longtime radio voice of the New
York Jets and also college football for ESPN for years
and years and years and years and for decades and
(00:25):
decades and decades. Breaking down the old twenty two for
NFL films is Greg Costel, who Greg, I'm just happy
that you've made it to the finish line with me,
you know, at your advanced age, to get all the
way through the draft. I think it's impressive that we've
made it this far together. Well, you know, if I
just to you how crazy I am. I'm still gonna
take one more week and watch some guys that I
missed now that I've seen the draft. So fortunately there
(00:48):
were always three guys in the first uh three rounds,
three players that I had not seen in the first
three rounds. Because I think I'm up to about two
guys now that I've seen and in my one man
scouting service, So you know, it's it takes a little time.
As you know, Yeah, you're you're the definition of unwell,
which is not how to guest to try to balance
(01:08):
this out, and it is the incomparable Charles Davis, who
joins us here on te Pets draft season. Of course,
on CBS during the NFL season you'll hear analizing games,
but of course on the NFL network he was covering
the trap put out mock drafts all the way leading
up to the draft. So broke down these prospects, Greg,
probably about as deeply as you did. And Charles, thanks
(01:28):
so much for doing this with us. We appreciate it. Hey, Bob, Greg,
thank you so much for having me. This is fantastic
And I can't wait to talk a little ball with you.
And you know, Bob, with you being the radio voice
of the New York Jets, I have the feeling that
you're feeling pretty good about what you saw come off
the board. And and Greg, you know we're gonna I
know we're gonna talk quarterbacks, which you know, you know
(01:49):
all the players, but you are a true quarterback guru.
And everyone in our league I know checks to see
what you say about quarterbacks because it checks out really
really well. And last but not least, mock drafts we
all know are made to be put out there for
us to be mocked. Once we put them out there,
you go. Is there is there any chance guys you'll
(02:11):
allow me to take all three of mine and use
them in combination so I look better when it's all
said and done, because at different ones I got different guys.
Like I put Tyler Linderball to Baltimore at fourteen with
my second mock draft, but didn't do it with my
final bock draft. You see where I'm going. So can
I get credit for one or get picking at twenty
(02:34):
to Pittsburgh on my first one but not my last?
Oh that's right, it doesn't count that way. But I
don't think this. This should be like the S A T.
You get to like superscore. So yeah, you went, you
might have maybe you had three eleven hundreds in the
end of you so tremendous work. Um, you know what.
I will selfishly get to the Jets at some point.
(02:54):
But you I think Charles touched on the headline, and
Greg I know, has opinions on this as well. The
quarterbacks were fascinating the fact that quarterback Kenny Pikett went
in the first round probably where most talent evaluators thought
he may go the most NFL ready polished product in
college football this year. But no one reached, No one
(03:17):
made a big, huge, aggressive trade up, no one panicked
and thought one of these guys might go late first
round and we better go up and get him. How
surprised were you that in many moth traps you had
Malik Willis projected as possibly the top ten pick. Maybe
people would be, you know, just entranced by the ceiling,
and yet he and Matt Corral and Desmond Ritterer and
(03:38):
Sam Howe, all of these guys that I think we
all think of NFL potential all dropped later to the
third round, and I mean maybe in the end where
they should have gone. What do you think, Well, I
think that that's kind of I think, Bobby, you laid
it out perfectly. And I can't wait for Greg to
chime in on this because I said before, we all
check and see what Craig says about quarterbacks. And that's
(04:00):
that's not because we're on this show. That's just reality.
Like when you asked around the league and you check
with people, a lot of people will say, well, what
did Greg think his quarterbacks? And it's a legit legit item.
I think that the league evaluations for once, instead of
the game of liars poker that we're all used to
for the last month leading up to the draft, where
(04:22):
everyone gives you disinformation, I think the league told us
the truth this time and actually stuck to it. And
I think that you nailed at Bob. There wasn't a panic.
I looked into the camera on day two of the draft.
I looked directly into the camera. I spoke to the people. Actually,
I think I said at night one that someone's gonna
(04:42):
take a quarterback and then the others are going to
dive in. I was wrong, but I was wrong, which
fit the evaluations because before this whole thing started. And
I'm gonna let Greg get in here, because because because
he should, I said before the draft, and I stuck
to it the entire time. There was a single quarterback
in this draft that I had rated as highly as
(05:04):
the fifth quarterback last year, and frankly the sixth quarterback,
which was Davis Mills of Stanford who went to the
Houston Texas. That Davis Mills had played a full year
for David Shaw Stanford this year have a sneaking suspension,
we would have been ranking him the number one quarterback
coming out this year, so that's where my evaluations were.
(05:24):
But as always, that doesn't mean there aren't any stars
in this that remains to be seen. This is all
about evaluation, Greg, How did you say it? You know,
I was as you were just talking, and I thought
about this over the weekend as well, but it even
hit me just more Charles as you were speaking. I
wonder we become so ingrained in thinking that everybody sees
the quarterback position now as a secondary action improvisational position.
(05:49):
And it's easy to say that because we do see guys,
whether it's a Mahomes, whether it's a Josh Allen, do
those kinds of things at are really high level. But
I wonder if somewhere along the line, and I don't
know if this is true or not, As I said,
I it's just reacting to what you said. It's somewhere
along the line. Team said, you know what, that's all great,
(06:11):
but we as coaches work sixteen hours a day, we
have a whole off season. We put in our system
we wanted to be executed, and if you executed properly
within the structure, there's a much higher percentage chance that
our offense will run efficiently, snap after snap after snap,
not waiting for a potentially secondary action, improvisational play which
(06:36):
has somewhat of a random feel to it. And I'm
just wondering, if you know, even with someone like Malik
Willis and I know you watched his tape, I personally
did not think his tape this year was that strong overall.
Now can he make plays, of course, but Charles, you
and I both know coaches and practice don't roll the
ball out and say, you know, our plan today is
(06:58):
to just go make some plays. And I just wonder
somewhere along the line, teams thought, you know what, these
guys have some issues playing consistently within structure, doing the
things that are required at the NFL level, snap after snap.
They're pretty significant works in progress in that area. So
(07:18):
instead of just taking a guy because he can make
a few plays, Hey, Sam Howell made a lot of plays,
and I personally think Sam Howell has a chance, But
you know what, he wasn't that consistent from the pocket.
He would tell you that I spoke to him at
the combine. He said to me, I didn't have a
very good year. Those are his words. So I think
that teams. Who knows. I'm trying to give maybe a
(07:39):
little more of a three thousand foot view of how
teams might have thought, because Malik Willis would have been
seen I think by a lot of people as, oh,
you gotta go get him because he can make plays,
but obviously teams didn't go get him. I love that.
I absolutely love that. I'm glad you brought that into
play because there's a quarterback and retired and unretired, that
(08:00):
makes the plays from the pocket, and he has all
rings and he's the best quarterback we've ever seen, and
that that, of course is Tom Brady. Russell. Wilson gets
mis evaluated in my mind, and was misevaluated coming out
of college by the vast majority of us because the
athleticism was predominant. But I thought that one year at
(08:20):
Wisconsin was huge for him and the biggest place he made.
And go back to his Seattle time. He made pocket
throws when he came out of college, and everybody remember
fourth and twenty six and the Big Ten championship game.
That wasn't a broken play, it was a pocket throw
and he makes it and end up going on and
win it. So those types of quarterbacks hit. I thought
that Carson Strong from Nevada, who didn't get drafted, might
(08:44):
have tested that theory Greg, except his knees, and I
think his health were so bad that people passed on him,
and that's why he's gonna end up being a free
agent and last, but not least, one of the all
time great quarterbacks. Aaron Rodgers, you have to help me
with this one. I think that his career revibes, for
lack of a better word, actually continue to ascend or reascended,
(09:07):
whatever word you want to use. When he got out
of that stage near the end of the Mike McCarthy time,
in my mind of every snap he started to create
instead of snap rhythm, look for your guy, throw the football.
I think he's back to doing that, and then the
legs are an accessory, not primary. And that's what I
(09:30):
thought for about a two or three years per stage.
As soon as he got in the snap, he was
off and going and going to create right away. Now
he's back in rhythm, and boy, that's the Aaron Rodgers
we all knew. Maybe I'll wrong, but that's what I said,
and you're so right, because the last two years he's
done that and he's played at an exceedingly high level.
And I think what people are starting to understand is,
(09:51):
you know, sure, we see Mahomes do his thing, Josh
do his thing in Buffalo, but at some point in
this league, you need to drop back passing game. And
if you don't have that, you're going to stop in
your quest to get to the big game. You know.
I think there are teams that are very good examples
of that when I say they don't have one. Obviously, Charles,
it's in their playbook, we know that, but but they
(10:14):
just don't execute it at the level that's necessary to
really advance and become a great team. And I think
we're seeing that, Hey, you know what, maybe that's something
that should be higher on the list as opposed to
lower on the list. Yeah, the second reaction stuff, Bob.
The second reaction stuff, in my mind is that that's
an accessory. That's what you sprinkle in. If the second
(10:36):
reaction is what you're doing right off the top, well,
we're back, We're we're having the turkey ball out back.
Now we're we're playing that, We're coming in and having
the pumpkin pie, and and and that just doesn't work
quite the same way as we go along doing it.
And I think teams are starting to evaluate that a
little bit more. And yes, we remember, just as Greg
put out there, what Mahomes does, what Josh does, all that,
(10:59):
but the biggest plays they make are from the pocket.
And I'm gonna just stop up right here with this
last observation, and it's one I'm gonna continue to jump
up and down the table on quarterback. Pro days have
turned into horse contests at cential? How many players can
I show? How many times can I show you an
off schedule, off platform throw that you all go, wow,
(11:23):
how great was that? How About you hit your back
foot and either the ball comes out of your hand
or your back foot and hitch it to time up
the route and then throw the football and make that
throw time and time and time again. Drew Lock had
a fantastic Pro Day with the off platform throws. We
haven't seen him consistently make the throw on three and
(11:44):
five step drops he's supposed to make to make him
a starting quarterback in the NFL. I think I think
all the Pro days have got to stop doing that. Hey,
you want to give me one of those? Cool? But
we're getting a whole series to show you off platform.
All right, that's fine, but the biggest thing is am
I consistently making the throw on three, five step and
seventh step dropped up supposed to make? Yeah, when Zach
(12:07):
Wilson had his pro day, uh, you know, obviously as
a Jets guy, it went viral when he had like
that office back foot flicked the side on fifty yard
down the middle and and Jet fans saw that like,
oh my god, look what this guy can do. Well,
you don't want him doing that, Like like if he's
if he's doing that a lot, it means whatever play
that you drew up, it didn't work, and now he
(12:28):
has to correctly get an offensive coordinator. I think, show
me what you look like when the play that I
put on the whiteboard comes together the way it's supposed to,
and then you can execute that, And to me, that's
more valuable. I agree, and Greg and I've talked about this, Charles.
I want to get your reaction as well before we
wrap up this segment and maybe get to some teams
and some other positions. But even if the quarterbacks an
(12:51):
anomaly this year dropped, this draft still shows it's still
all about the quarterback, right like, look what teams did.
Look at the trades teams made for big wide receivers.
Look at the top twelve guys that came off the board.
To start, you need to get to Jordan Davis before
that was the first player in this draft that you
can make an argument place a position that isn't about
(13:13):
the quarterback. Everybody else it was the guy who's gonna
catch the ball from the quarterback, or the guy that's
gonna cover the guy that you're gonna try to throw too,
or the guy that's blocking for the quarterback, or right
the top. It's all still about the quarterback, isn't it.
At great point, it's how the quarterback plays and how
you affect the quarterback. All three of us are old
(13:34):
enough to know these coaches. We weren't around totally when
they weren't walked the sidelines, but they're the legends. Bear
Bryant and Bumm Phillips repopularized it. The game is still
about protect ours rush. There's it still comes back to that.
It hasn't changed protect your quarterback. That's what you're talking about, Bob.
(13:56):
All those offensive tackles came off the board, rushed the quarterback.
How about all the all the edge rushers that came
off the border early. Exactly right about that. The game
is still played there, So you're right, even if it
wasn't quarterbacks, it was about making the quarterback either uncomfortable
or are safe enough to throw it to those receivers
that came off the board as well. I love that observation.
(14:17):
That's Charles Davids, Sam Babo shoot, Hi, Gregg Cosell of
course with me as well, and this is Tape Heeds
Draft season. Will step aside for just a moment and
come back and attack some of the teams, some of
the other big position groups that were headline makers in
the NFL Draft in just a moment, Baba shoot, Greg
Cosell and Charles Davis kind enough to spend some time
(14:38):
with us this week wrapping up our coverage of Tape
Heeds Draft Season and the two NFL Draft and you know,
Charles would spent pretty much the entire first segment talking
not just about the quarterbacks, but philosophically how teams went
after players that impact the quarterback. Let's get to some
teams and you know you brought them up, so I
will selfishly take the bait my Jets that seemed had
(14:58):
a pretty good draft, right. Everybody seemed to collectively across
the board think that they got a lot of boxes
checked that they were able to get not only three
first round picks, but three players in the first round,
including Jermaine Johnson at twenty six that many people had
prognosticated to be top ten guys. Um. And then they
(15:19):
did get some other weapons that seemed to be their philosophy.
Just keep getting weapons, um, you know, for for Zach
Wilson or guys that can go cover together team's weapons.
And now, of course with Sauce Gardner their first pick.
So what was your overall take on their performance? I
thought it was phenomenal And one of the points I
tried to make on the on the broadcast, I'll know
(15:39):
if it cut through didn't because let's face there's a
lot of time plus ed mayor narrow, so you know
there's a lot going on for our for our draft.
The people people were hopping on the Jets bandwagon for
the draft, and Joe Douglas and GM, I thought, look
did we forget last year? He already showed you he
knows how to manipulate a board. Remember last year when
(16:00):
you do it, when the Jeff took Zack Wilson at two,
he came back and executed a trade with Minnesota to
get it to get Elijah Vera Tucker to guard tackle
from USC at fourteen. You don't just take the quarterback
and make sure and leave him naked and in his eyes. Hey,
we had McKay Beckton from before. You're bringing Vera Tucker.
You got a heck of a left side. And then
(16:22):
you come back and get the runner of Michael Carter
at four. You got Alijah More in the second round.
I thought last year was a tremendous draft for the Jets.
Now you come back this year and in the game
of can you top yourself? I would say Joe Douglas
did because not only was he waiting to come back
in to get Jermaine Johnson as he kept dropping, he
(16:43):
did how about it a second round what he did
to make sure he got Breece Hall, because I mean
that was a big deal. Breece Hall was I think
the consensus top runner on the board. And now you're
gonna pair Breeze Hall in the second round this year,
Michael Carter in the fourth round last year, Zach Wilson
has that you got Alijah More last year. You now
(17:03):
you come back with uh with Garrett Wilson this year.
You know, oh, by the way he signed the c
j us Alma right, didn't signed Alert Conklin as well,
and in in in free agency. And then you come
making Jeremy Rucker from ohiose date he was a very
underrated tight end and people go, well, you didn't catch
a lot of balls, And I was like, well, then
you don't watch ball because Ohio State was throwing too
(17:27):
Chris Alave, Garrett Wilson, uh Smith and Jagba. I mean,
they were playing the perimeter game. You're not throwing it
to the tight end because those guys are creating big plays.
Jeremy Rutgers a Long Island kid coming home. He's ecstatic
and his past catching potential is more vast than what
people know. I thought it was a masterful draft by
(17:48):
Joe Douglas and Bob If I could just jump in,
I I couldn't agree more. The Rutgert picked. To me,
we all know about the first round picks and obviously
Breeze Hall, but I watched a ton of Rutgers, I
mean and Obviously he did not catch a lot of balls,
but people might forget he was a big, big time
recruit coming out of Long Island and he is a
really talented guy. Obviously he blocked a lot at Ohio State,
(18:11):
but when you really dig into his tape and see
the routes that he ran and the athleticism that he
brings to the table, he's a three level dimension as
a tight end, and I think he's one of those
guys along with a zoom And now now you have
two tight ends, so the Jets are in a position
that every offensive coach wants to be in. And keep
in mind their offensive coordinator has that San Francisco background,
(18:33):
so they can line up with two tight ends, they
can line up with three wide I think this is
a team now that presents a lot of options offensively,
and it puts Zack Wilson ideally in a good position.
I like hearing all that, Charles any other teams. We
were actually touching on the Eagles, Greg and I work
before we came on the fact that they made a
big deal for a primetime wide receiver and a j
(18:54):
Brown and then drafted to Georgia between the tackles front
seven defensive players as part of their top three picks,
you know, in Nakobe Dean and Jordan Davis. I don't
know if that is a team that fascinated your or
any others on your list. Well, let's stick with the
Eagles since you brought him up, because yes, they did
fascinate me. Howie Rosemand, the mojo was there, Okay, not
(19:17):
that it has been. You know, I really feel like
some of these gms and how he's kind of a
lightning ride for people really zeroing in on what happened,
what didn't happen to all this. I'll tell you this
about Howie Roseman. What's he standing? Greg five, Diing five
eight whatever? Right? But he but but Howie Rosemand play
seven feet tall guys in every draft. Howie Roseman gets
(19:40):
after it. Okay, he has he has the gumption of
the cat burglar. Okay, he's a second story guy because
he has conviction on people and he will go and
do what he has to do to try and get them.
Once he got Jordan Davis getting a j Brown in
the trade, that means he had to work out the
contract along the way because he didn't want to say
(20:02):
I'm gonna trade for him and then have to work
out the contract, which cost you even more money down
the road if you hit it wrong. He worked out
all the details and now he's got that tough guy.
See I compare A. J. Brown in a way to
Jarvis Landry because juice in your in your wide receiver room,
A J. Brown is gonna be the same way. You
(20:24):
got to play the game with some toughness as well.
You can't just go run your route to do your stuff.
You gotta do all the things, do the things possible
to be a pro. A J. Brown is like that.
He played through a lot of injuries last year and
played really tough. He made missed some games, but when
he was out there, he was and he played strong.
So let's get back to the draft, getting Jordan Davis
(20:45):
and then, as you pointed out, Bob the Kobe Dean,
the linebacker who many had as their top linebacker on
the board, they get him in the third round because
of an injury. Concerned that can't that emerged at the
combine where he had a peck injury and decided not
to get surgery at the time. So people think he's
gonna be behind in his rehab and will he be
ready for the season. I'm willing to wait on Nakobe
(21:08):
Dean because once he gets healthy, the way we're playing
linebacker these days, they don't have to be huge. He's
better than every linebacker they've got right now. So soon
as he plugs into the lineup, they're often running. So
to me, that was masterful to get him there. And
last year, you remember, they drafted Landon Dickerson out of
Florida's state in Alabama, right he played in two schools.
(21:32):
We thought he was the heir apparent at center for
Jason Kelsey, and he played guard last year. What this
draft pick of Cam Jurgens from Nebraska told me is
that the Eagles and Jeff Stoutland, they're offensive line coach,
have evaluated Landon Dickerson, think that he's really good at guard.
And now we've got our air apparent Camp Jurgens, a
center Kelsey with another one year deal. Give Jurgens a
(21:54):
chance to break in, You leave Dickerson and guard Jerkins
takes over at center. I really like all the things
they did, and I'm gonna leave it at this. Kyran
john In the linebacker out of Kansas, they drafted an
undersized pass rusher. They can use them as a DPR
designated pass rusher until he gets really comfortable, gets a
little weight under him. But boy, he plays with great
(22:15):
leverage that we thought the Senior Bowl he may not
look the part, but he was getting underneath these big
blockers and finding ways passed them and pass rush drills.
You know. You know what I'm curious about with Nakobe Dean.
The tape is very good. You know, you have to
like the player. There's nothing not to like based on tape.
I'd be curious if some teams thought because he's really
(22:37):
close to the bottom end of the spectrum in terms
of height for teams that look at that. And you know, Charles,
there are teams that do that. They have standards and
they have parameters for every position. We know that. But
the thing that stood out to me because Kirby Smart
is one of the few coaches in college football where
when you watch their defense you see true NFL pressure concepts,
(22:58):
and na Kobe Dean was an outstanding blitzer. And I'm
curious if John and Gannon, the d C for the
the Eagles, who last year I don't think could really
do a lot of the things he wanted to do
simply because he didn't have the personnel. I'm wondering if
they see Dean in that role as he matures and
develops and gets coached, because he was a really, really
(23:20):
good blitzer. He's very good playing forward. I like that,
and and the good thing he had. And but I
think what some people might have been concerned with Greg
is what he had in front of him. You guys
watched I mean, Bob, you do college football every week?
How many times have you gotten that shot on TV
that you you were not even talking about, but you
(23:40):
notice it. Greg sees it in the same way where
that shot is from behind the offensive huddle and the
defensive line has broken the huddle and they're waiting for
you and you look up. How many times have we
seen that with Georgia this year because it became a
favorite shot because you look up in that imposing defensive
line is standing their hands on hips. That defensive line
(24:02):
allowed him to do so many things with Nakobe Dean,
with Channing Tenda, with Quay Walker that because of the
size with Nakobe Dean, I think people were wondering was
he protected so well? Kenny hand fight through things if
I can't protect him as well, that caused him concern
as well going forward. But I think Greg is spot
on the Kobe Dean's just such a great player. I
(24:24):
comped him to Jonathan Vilma because he plays the game
with his brain as well. This is gonna be a
guy that that you don't have any worries about running
your defense through. And as soon as he gets healthy,
I love that pick. And to get him in the third,
to me, that's like an extra first round pick. Bob. Yeah, well,
Jonathan Vilma, I was had a hard time interviewing him
because it kind of felt stupid while I was talking
(24:45):
to him. Yeah, well I have that when I have that, Bob,
when I have conversations with him, I'm like, Jonathan, can
you can you translate what you just said to me? Hey? Um,
we're always looking for diamonds in the rough. You did
mock draft, so obviously you were someone that was looking
I mean literally all the way through this draft. So
in this trap, will you know? And I think sometimes
(25:05):
with the fans and media, we've spent so much time
talking about the first round, yeah, that we almost feel
like the draft is over on Thursday night. We're really
the guts of your team are put together in rounds
two through seven. Yeah, so who were which teams do
you think maybe did the best work based on your
you know, player evaluations, where there were some guys in
the second, third, and fourth round you were like, oh,
(25:27):
wait a minute, now they got a guy that I
just think it's a difference maker. Can I take Houston
as a whole? Sure? Sure, Let's face it, it's really easy.
It's been really easy to dump on Houston over the
last few years, hadn't it. I mean it's been real easy,
Like that's not even been sport for us. Okay, they've
looked like a total disarray. They look like, you know,
(25:48):
are they even trying out there with that roster? What's
going on? You know? You know, you you hire, you
hire a coach last year, and and and and uh
David McCulley, and then you you fired him in one
year and he's worked his butt off and those guys
play hard for him. So what exactly were you doing
at that place? You know, they have the Deshaun Watson
(26:09):
circus going on. I gotta tell you something, whatever was
said before Nick Cassario, in my mind, in this draft,
they went at it with conviction. I used that word
a lot. They decided to Derek Stingley, who I think
was the most talented corner in this draft. But I
understood why people out of my Gardener ahead of him,
because Gardener had been more consistent the last two seasons.
(26:32):
But Stingley at the top of his game, no question,
my my best corner in this draft. And when he
came back healthy for his Pro Day, and if you
put the time in and I assumed Houston did, to
be convinced that this guy's ready to elevate again. That's
why he went at three instead of a mod Gardener.
Then you come back and you get Kenyan Green at thirteen,
(26:53):
which I was joking with someone the Kenyan Green was
probably at the bowling alley or somewhere else because he
didn't expect to hear his name at thirteen. He didn't
think he even starting to hear name until the mid
twenties and then beyond. But at thirteen he provides I
think the most physical offensive guard in this draft. So
(27:13):
now you provided a second starter right away. Then you
go to Jaln Petrie. My favorite safety in the draft.
My favorite player was Kyle Hamilton and Notre Dame. So
I'm not changing that, but people have heard me throughout
this process. I've had a major man crush on Jaln
Petrie because instincts are huge in the secondary and Tyrone
Matthews the patron saying of instincts, we know that, But
(27:36):
since then I've said, Elijah Molden from who went to
the Titans last year, reminded me Antoine Winfield when he
came out of Minnesota before he went to the Bucks.
Reminded me Jalen Petrie is this year's example to me
of that guy. Now you talking about those guys, Bob
who we got in the third, fourth, fifth, how about
getting Christian Harrison, linebacker from Alabama. And the third Damian
(27:57):
Pierce are running back from Florida who is a thumper
yet catches the ball well out of the backfield. The
oddity he's going to be that his first one yard
rushing game will happen in the NFL. He never had
it in college because they've moved the ball around so
much and they didn't stick with the run as much
of Florida. And then Thomas Booker, the de tackle from Stanford.
(28:17):
It can be a great zero technique and run stopper,
tea Qua Torriano the tight end from Morgan State, more
blocker than catcher, Austin Deculus for tackle from Louisiana State.
I think great value through there because they will compete.
But Derek Stingley one, Kenyan Green one, Jalen Petrie to
John Netchi the receiver from Alabama too when he gets healthy,
(28:40):
Christian Harris free from Alabama. All of them will start
as soon as they are ready to go meeting health wise,
They're immediate starters. And I think Damian Pierce, he immediately
takes some carries from Rex burke Head. I thought it
was about his professional a draft as Houston has had
in a while. Now, you know, just a real quick point,
and I love your thought, and it's probably a longer conversation.
(29:03):
But Jalen Petrie is fascinating to me because he obviously
is you know, Charles, he played what they call the
start position, so he played slot corner, box safety and
outside linebacker. Okay, and obviously when you watch his tape
in college, he was all over the place. He made
a lot of plays. But I kept trying to think,
what is he going to be in the NFL because
(29:24):
and I'm just being honest, and again, this is what
I try to do. I think about projection and transition
because they played a ton of zone at UH in college. Now,
of course Lovely Smith does too, and I know a
lot of people said he's a slot corner, but he
didn't really play much man coverage, So to me, that
would have been a projection if you see him as
a slot corner and then there's a true safety. I
(29:46):
was thinking to myself, is he really truly athletic enough
to be that guy in a love E. Smith system?
He could be. I'm not sure. And then I can
keep coming back to the argument that, well, the guy's
made plays in college, He's just gonna keep making plays.
And I would just love quick thought from you, because
I I think he's a really good player on tape.
(30:07):
I just was uncertain in my mind as to what
his projection would be in the NFL. Yeah, I think you're.
I think you're. It's a great question, Greg, because I
think you have to convince yourself of different things when
you when you go back and look at his measurables
and then go back and watch him run move all
those things. Because he started there as a pure outside linebacker.
(30:28):
So that's this kind of a move was almost like
uh Carnel Lake coming out of U. C l A. Remember,
he was like a pure outside back through c l A.
He was under size, but because he was so athletic,
the Steelers made him a safety, and boy did they
hit on that one. Petrie started as an outside back
or Baylor, but as you pointed out, played that star position,
(30:50):
so he had to have the traits of everything. It's
kind of like an astrology. If you're born within three
days of either side of the dates on your thing,
you get the characteristics of both signs. Well, that's kind
of what Petrie was. He was in the cuff outside
linebacker here, safety here, linebacker, you know, and that dime
linebacker here. What I think he is is where the
(31:12):
game has moved to as well, that Buffalo safety deal, Greg,
where you have three Yeah, you mean the nickel right.
He's more the big nickel guy as opposed to the
nickel corner, as you pointed out, because the nickel corner
wasn't much of what he was really locked in doing. No,
he didn't play a lot of man, didn't play a
lot of man, But I will say this. He moves
(31:34):
and he's fluid, and he ran way better than what
people thought. I think he can do all the characteristics
of everything else. I'm betting on his instincts about the
football to be that type of a player, and I think,
to love you to find find plenty of ways to
do that. That's what I'm counting on. So I think
it's a great question, and it is a little bit
of a projection. And Bob, I think that takes me
(31:57):
to why Trent Baky went number one with Trayvon Walker,
because there is a bit of a project ship. There
is a thing that Treyvon Walker is going to be
a great pass rusher because you don't go draft a
guy at one for six sacks a year. You draft
a guy at one for double digit sacks a year.
And Trayvon Walker never did that at Georgia. Adan Hutchinson
(32:18):
did that in Michigan. That's why people are like, WHOA,
what's going on here? The projection for them is the athleticism,
the scheme he played at Georgia where he took up
double teams where they didn't put him out there is
a wide nine. All those things. They think that all
that can emerge and they see that upside as being
big and that's what Trent Baky put his name on
the line for. Well, Charles, I can't tell you how
(32:40):
much we appreciate the time you've given us all this information.
I mean, we could go team by teams for this
entire drafted you with. The problem is, by the time
we got done with all the information you and Greg have,
you'd be in the booth calling your first team of
the season. Hey hey, we don't, we don't. We'd all
be right there at kickoff, wouldn't we. But hopefully we
can do this again with you at some point down
the road. We love talking ball with you. Thanks a million,
(33:02):
Thanks a million, thanks for having time to give me
this time with you guys. It is flat out terrific
and you know I love picking your brains as well.
Look forward to seeing you again soon. Bob's same with you, Greg. Thanks, Charles,
really appreciate it. Thanks a lot of guys, You're the best.
Thanks Charles. That is Charles Davis, so much information. And
we're back tomorrow with another and I guess our final
episode of Tape Heads Draft season to wrap up our
(33:24):
coverage and our look back at the two NFL trapt
Boble Shoosing a great post, Cell, Thanks for being a
tape pend
Tapeds. It's a production of I Heart Media and the NFL.
The draft is finally in the books, and so we
have a draft to react to here on TAPEDS Draft season.
Baba Shu was a longtime radio voice of the New
York Jets and also college football for ESPN for years
and years and years and years and for decades and
(00:25):
decades and decades. Breaking down the old twenty two for
NFL films is Greg Costel, who Greg, I'm just happy
that you've made it to the finish line with me,
you know, at your advanced age, to get all the
way through the draft. I think it's impressive that we've
made it this far together. Well, you know, if I
just to you how crazy I am. I'm still gonna
take one more week and watch some guys that I
missed now that I've seen the draft. So fortunately there
(00:48):
were always three guys in the first uh three rounds,
three players that I had not seen in the first
three rounds. Because I think I'm up to about two
guys now that I've seen and in my one man
scouting service, So you know, it's it takes a little time.
As you know, Yeah, you're you're the definition of unwell,
which is not how to guest to try to balance
(01:08):
this out, and it is the incomparable Charles Davis, who
joins us here on te Pets draft season. Of course,
on CBS during the NFL season you'll hear analizing games,
but of course on the NFL network he was covering
the trap put out mock drafts all the way leading
up to the draft. So broke down these prospects, Greg,
probably about as deeply as you did. And Charles, thanks
(01:28):
so much for doing this with us. We appreciate it. Hey, Bob, Greg,
thank you so much for having me. This is fantastic
And I can't wait to talk a little ball with you.
And you know, Bob, with you being the radio voice
of the New York Jets, I have the feeling that
you're feeling pretty good about what you saw come off
the board. And and Greg, you know we're gonna I
know we're gonna talk quarterbacks, which you know, you know
(01:49):
all the players, but you are a true quarterback guru.
And everyone in our league I know checks to see
what you say about quarterbacks because it checks out really
really well. And last but not least, mock drafts we
all know are made to be put out there for
us to be mocked. Once we put them out there,
you go. Is there is there any chance guys you'll
(02:11):
allow me to take all three of mine and use
them in combination so I look better when it's all
said and done, because at different ones I got different guys.
Like I put Tyler Linderball to Baltimore at fourteen with
my second mock draft, but didn't do it with my
final bock draft. You see where I'm going. So can
I get credit for one or get picking at twenty
(02:34):
to Pittsburgh on my first one but not my last?
Oh that's right, it doesn't count that way. But I
don't think this. This should be like the S A T.
You get to like superscore. So yeah, you went, you
might have maybe you had three eleven hundreds in the
end of you so tremendous work. Um, you know what.
I will selfishly get to the Jets at some point.
(02:54):
But you I think Charles touched on the headline, and
Greg I know, has opinions on this as well. The
quarterbacks were fascinating the fact that quarterback Kenny Pikett went
in the first round probably where most talent evaluators thought
he may go the most NFL ready polished product in
college football this year. But no one reached, No one
(03:17):
made a big, huge, aggressive trade up, no one panicked
and thought one of these guys might go late first
round and we better go up and get him. How
surprised were you that in many moth traps you had
Malik Willis projected as possibly the top ten pick. Maybe
people would be, you know, just entranced by the ceiling,
and yet he and Matt Corral and Desmond Ritterer and
(03:38):
Sam Howe, all of these guys that I think we
all think of NFL potential all dropped later to the
third round, and I mean maybe in the end where
they should have gone. What do you think, Well, I
think that that's kind of I think, Bobby, you laid
it out perfectly. And I can't wait for Greg to
chime in on this because I said before, we all
check and see what Craig says about quarterbacks. And that's
(04:00):
that's not because we're on this show. That's just reality.
Like when you asked around the league and you check
with people, a lot of people will say, well, what
did Greg think his quarterbacks? And it's a legit legit item.
I think that the league evaluations for once, instead of
the game of liars poker that we're all used to
for the last month leading up to the draft, where
(04:22):
everyone gives you disinformation, I think the league told us
the truth this time and actually stuck to it. And
I think that you nailed at Bob. There wasn't a panic.
I looked into the camera on day two of the draft.
I looked directly into the camera. I spoke to the people. Actually,
I think I said at night one that someone's gonna
(04:42):
take a quarterback and then the others are going to
dive in. I was wrong, but I was wrong, which
fit the evaluations because before this whole thing started. And
I'm gonna let Greg get in here, because because because
he should, I said before the draft, and I stuck
to it the entire time. There was a single quarterback
in this draft that I had rated as highly as
(05:04):
the fifth quarterback last year, and frankly the sixth quarterback,
which was Davis Mills of Stanford who went to the
Houston Texas. That Davis Mills had played a full year
for David Shaw Stanford this year have a sneaking suspension,
we would have been ranking him the number one quarterback
coming out this year, so that's where my evaluations were.
(05:24):
But as always, that doesn't mean there aren't any stars
in this that remains to be seen. This is all
about evaluation, Greg, How did you say it? You know,
I was as you were just talking, and I thought
about this over the weekend as well, but it even
hit me just more Charles as you were speaking. I
wonder we become so ingrained in thinking that everybody sees
the quarterback position now as a secondary action improvisational position.
(05:49):
And it's easy to say that because we do see guys,
whether it's a Mahomes, whether it's a Josh Allen, do
those kinds of things at are really high level. But
I wonder if somewhere along the line, and I don't
know if this is true or not, As I said,
I it's just reacting to what you said. It's somewhere
along the line. Team said, you know what, that's all great,
(06:11):
but we as coaches work sixteen hours a day, we
have a whole off season. We put in our system
we wanted to be executed, and if you executed properly
within the structure, there's a much higher percentage chance that
our offense will run efficiently, snap after snap after snap,
not waiting for a potentially secondary action, improvisational play which
(06:36):
has somewhat of a random feel to it. And I'm
just wondering, if you know, even with someone like Malik
Willis and I know you watched his tape, I personally
did not think his tape this year was that strong overall.
Now can he make plays, of course, but Charles, you
and I both know coaches and practice don't roll the
ball out and say, you know, our plan today is
(06:58):
to just go make some plays. And I just wonder
somewhere along the line, teams thought, you know what, these
guys have some issues playing consistently within structure, doing the
things that are required at the NFL level, snap after snap.
They're pretty significant works in progress in that area. So
(07:18):
instead of just taking a guy because he can make
a few plays, Hey, Sam Howell made a lot of plays,
and I personally think Sam Howell has a chance, But
you know what, he wasn't that consistent from the pocket.
He would tell you that I spoke to him at
the combine. He said to me, I didn't have a
very good year. Those are his words. So I think
that teams. Who knows. I'm trying to give maybe a
(07:39):
little more of a three thousand foot view of how
teams might have thought, because Malik Willis would have been
seen I think by a lot of people as, oh,
you gotta go get him because he can make plays,
but obviously teams didn't go get him. I love that.
I absolutely love that. I'm glad you brought that into
play because there's a quarterback and retired and unretired, that
(08:00):
makes the plays from the pocket, and he has all
rings and he's the best quarterback we've ever seen, and
that that, of course is Tom Brady. Russell. Wilson gets
mis evaluated in my mind, and was misevaluated coming out
of college by the vast majority of us because the
athleticism was predominant. But I thought that one year at
(08:20):
Wisconsin was huge for him and the biggest place he made.
And go back to his Seattle time. He made pocket
throws when he came out of college, and everybody remember
fourth and twenty six and the Big Ten championship game.
That wasn't a broken play, it was a pocket throw
and he makes it and end up going on and
win it. So those types of quarterbacks hit. I thought
that Carson Strong from Nevada, who didn't get drafted, might
(08:44):
have tested that theory Greg, except his knees, and I
think his health were so bad that people passed on him,
and that's why he's gonna end up being a free
agent and last, but not least, one of the all
time great quarterbacks. Aaron Rodgers, you have to help me
with this one. I think that his career revibes, for
lack of a better word, actually continue to ascend or reascended,
(09:07):
whatever word you want to use. When he got out
of that stage near the end of the Mike McCarthy time,
in my mind of every snap he started to create
instead of snap rhythm, look for your guy, throw the football.
I think he's back to doing that, and then the
legs are an accessory, not primary. And that's what I
(09:30):
thought for about a two or three years per stage.
As soon as he got in the snap, he was
off and going and going to create right away. Now
he's back in rhythm, and boy, that's the Aaron Rodgers
we all knew. Maybe I'll wrong, but that's what I said,
and you're so right, because the last two years he's
done that and he's played at an exceedingly high level.
And I think what people are starting to understand is,
(09:51):
you know, sure, we see Mahomes do his thing, Josh
do his thing in Buffalo, but at some point in
this league, you need to drop back passing game. And
if you don't have that, you're going to stop in
your quest to get to the big game. You know.
I think there are teams that are very good examples
of that when I say they don't have one. Obviously, Charles,
it's in their playbook, we know that, but but they
(10:14):
just don't execute it at the level that's necessary to
really advance and become a great team. And I think
we're seeing that, Hey, you know what, maybe that's something
that should be higher on the list as opposed to
lower on the list. Yeah, the second reaction stuff, Bob.
The second reaction stuff, in my mind is that that's
an accessory. That's what you sprinkle in. If the second
(10:36):
reaction is what you're doing right off the top, well,
we're back, We're we're having the turkey ball out back.
Now we're we're playing that, We're coming in and having
the pumpkin pie, and and and that just doesn't work
quite the same way as we go along doing it.
And I think teams are starting to evaluate that a
little bit more. And yes, we remember, just as Greg
put out there, what Mahomes does, what Josh does, all that,
(10:59):
but the biggest plays they make are from the pocket.
And I'm gonna just stop up right here with this
last observation, and it's one I'm gonna continue to jump
up and down the table on quarterback. Pro days have
turned into horse contests at cential? How many players can
I show? How many times can I show you an
off schedule, off platform throw that you all go, wow,
(11:23):
how great was that? How About you hit your back
foot and either the ball comes out of your hand
or your back foot and hitch it to time up
the route and then throw the football and make that
throw time and time and time again. Drew Lock had
a fantastic Pro Day with the off platform throws. We
haven't seen him consistently make the throw on three and
(11:44):
five step drops he's supposed to make to make him
a starting quarterback in the NFL. I think I think
all the Pro days have got to stop doing that. Hey,
you want to give me one of those? Cool? But
we're getting a whole series to show you off platform.
All right, that's fine, but the biggest thing is am
I consistently making the throw on three, five step and
seventh step dropped up supposed to make? Yeah, when Zach
(12:07):
Wilson had his pro day, uh, you know, obviously as
a Jets guy, it went viral when he had like
that office back foot flicked the side on fifty yard
down the middle and and Jet fans saw that like,
oh my god, look what this guy can do. Well,
you don't want him doing that, Like like if he's
if he's doing that a lot, it means whatever play
that you drew up, it didn't work, and now he
(12:28):
has to correctly get an offensive coordinator. I think, show
me what you look like when the play that I
put on the whiteboard comes together the way it's supposed to,
and then you can execute that, And to me, that's
more valuable. I agree, and Greg and I've talked about this, Charles.
I want to get your reaction as well before we
wrap up this segment and maybe get to some teams
and some other positions. But even if the quarterbacks an
(12:51):
anomaly this year dropped, this draft still shows it's still
all about the quarterback, right like, look what teams did.
Look at the trades teams made for big wide receivers.
Look at the top twelve guys that came off the board.
To start, you need to get to Jordan Davis before
that was the first player in this draft that you
can make an argument place a position that isn't about
(13:13):
the quarterback. Everybody else it was the guy who's gonna
catch the ball from the quarterback, or the guy that's
gonna cover the guy that you're gonna try to throw too,
or the guy that's blocking for the quarterback, or right
the top. It's all still about the quarterback, isn't it.
At great point, it's how the quarterback plays and how
you affect the quarterback. All three of us are old
(13:34):
enough to know these coaches. We weren't around totally when
they weren't walked the sidelines, but they're the legends. Bear
Bryant and Bumm Phillips repopularized it. The game is still
about protect ours rush. There's it still comes back to that.
It hasn't changed protect your quarterback. That's what you're talking about, Bob.
(13:56):
All those offensive tackles came off the board, rushed the quarterback.
How about all the all the edge rushers that came
off the border early. Exactly right about that. The game
is still played there, So you're right, even if it
wasn't quarterbacks, it was about making the quarterback either uncomfortable
or are safe enough to throw it to those receivers
that came off the board as well. I love that observation.
(14:17):
That's Charles Davids, Sam Babo shoot, Hi, Gregg Cosell of
course with me as well, and this is Tape Heeds
Draft season. Will step aside for just a moment and
come back and attack some of the teams, some of
the other big position groups that were headline makers in
the NFL Draft in just a moment, Baba shoot, Greg
Cosell and Charles Davis kind enough to spend some time
(14:38):
with us this week wrapping up our coverage of Tape
Heeds Draft Season and the two NFL Draft and you know,
Charles would spent pretty much the entire first segment talking
not just about the quarterbacks, but philosophically how teams went
after players that impact the quarterback. Let's get to some
teams and you know you brought them up, so I
will selfishly take the bait my Jets that seemed had
(14:58):
a pretty good draft, right. Everybody seemed to collectively across
the board think that they got a lot of boxes
checked that they were able to get not only three
first round picks, but three players in the first round,
including Jermaine Johnson at twenty six that many people had
prognosticated to be top ten guys. Um. And then they
(15:19):
did get some other weapons that seemed to be their philosophy.
Just keep getting weapons, um, you know, for for Zach
Wilson or guys that can go cover together team's weapons.
And now, of course with Sauce Gardner their first pick.
So what was your overall take on their performance? I
thought it was phenomenal And one of the points I
tried to make on the on the broadcast, I'll know
(15:39):
if it cut through didn't because let's face there's a
lot of time plus ed mayor narrow, so you know
there's a lot going on for our for our draft.
The people people were hopping on the Jets bandwagon for
the draft, and Joe Douglas and GM, I thought, look
did we forget last year? He already showed you he
knows how to manipulate a board. Remember last year when
(16:00):
you do it, when the Jeff took Zack Wilson at two,
he came back and executed a trade with Minnesota to
get it to get Elijah Vera Tucker to guard tackle
from USC at fourteen. You don't just take the quarterback
and make sure and leave him naked and in his eyes. Hey,
we had McKay Beckton from before. You're bringing Vera Tucker.
You got a heck of a left side. And then
(16:22):
you come back and get the runner of Michael Carter
at four. You got Alijah More in the second round.
I thought last year was a tremendous draft for the Jets.
Now you come back this year and in the game
of can you top yourself? I would say Joe Douglas
did because not only was he waiting to come back
in to get Jermaine Johnson as he kept dropping, he
(16:43):
did how about it a second round what he did
to make sure he got Breece Hall, because I mean
that was a big deal. Breece Hall was I think
the consensus top runner on the board. And now you're
gonna pair Breeze Hall in the second round this year,
Michael Carter in the fourth round last year, Zach Wilson
has that you got Alijah More last year. You now
(17:03):
you come back with uh with Garrett Wilson this year.
You know, oh, by the way he signed the c
j us Alma right, didn't signed Alert Conklin as well,
and in in in free agency. And then you come
making Jeremy Rucker from ohiose date he was a very
underrated tight end and people go, well, you didn't catch
a lot of balls, And I was like, well, then
you don't watch ball because Ohio State was throwing too
(17:27):
Chris Alave, Garrett Wilson, uh Smith and Jagba. I mean,
they were playing the perimeter game. You're not throwing it
to the tight end because those guys are creating big plays.
Jeremy Rutgers a Long Island kid coming home. He's ecstatic
and his past catching potential is more vast than what
people know. I thought it was a masterful draft by
(17:48):
Joe Douglas and Bob If I could just jump in,
I I couldn't agree more. The Rutgert picked. To me,
we all know about the first round picks and obviously
Breeze Hall, but I watched a ton of Rutgers, I
mean and Obviously he did not catch a lot of balls,
but people might forget he was a big, big time
recruit coming out of Long Island and he is a
really talented guy. Obviously he blocked a lot at Ohio State,
(18:11):
but when you really dig into his tape and see
the routes that he ran and the athleticism that he
brings to the table, he's a three level dimension as
a tight end, and I think he's one of those
guys along with a zoom And now now you have
two tight ends, so the Jets are in a position
that every offensive coach wants to be in. And keep
in mind their offensive coordinator has that San Francisco background,
(18:33):
so they can line up with two tight ends, they
can line up with three wide I think this is
a team now that presents a lot of options offensively,
and it puts Zack Wilson ideally in a good position.
I like hearing all that, Charles any other teams. We
were actually touching on the Eagles, Greg and I work
before we came on the fact that they made a
big deal for a primetime wide receiver and a j
(18:54):
Brown and then drafted to Georgia between the tackles front
seven defensive players as part of their top three picks,
you know, in Nakobe Dean and Jordan Davis. I don't
know if that is a team that fascinated your or
any others on your list. Well, let's stick with the
Eagles since you brought him up, because yes, they did
fascinate me. Howie Rosemand, the mojo was there, Okay, not
(19:17):
that it has been. You know, I really feel like
some of these gms and how he's kind of a
lightning ride for people really zeroing in on what happened,
what didn't happen to all this. I'll tell you this
about Howie Roseman. What's he standing? Greg five, Diing five
eight whatever? Right? But he but but Howie Rosemand play
seven feet tall guys in every draft. Howie Roseman gets
(19:40):
after it. Okay, he has he has the gumption of
the cat burglar. Okay, he's a second story guy because
he has conviction on people and he will go and
do what he has to do to try and get them.
Once he got Jordan Davis getting a j Brown in
the trade, that means he had to work out the
contract along the way because he didn't want to say
(20:02):
I'm gonna trade for him and then have to work
out the contract, which cost you even more money down
the road if you hit it wrong. He worked out
all the details and now he's got that tough guy.
See I compare A. J. Brown in a way to
Jarvis Landry because juice in your in your wide receiver room,
A J. Brown is gonna be the same way. You
(20:24):
got to play the game with some toughness as well.
You can't just go run your route to do your stuff.
You gotta do all the things, do the things possible
to be a pro. A J. Brown is like that.
He played through a lot of injuries last year and
played really tough. He made missed some games, but when
he was out there, he was and he played strong.
So let's get back to the draft, getting Jordan Davis
(20:45):
and then, as you pointed out, Bob the Kobe Dean,
the linebacker who many had as their top linebacker on
the board, they get him in the third round because
of an injury. Concerned that can't that emerged at the
combine where he had a peck injury and decided not
to get surgery at the time. So people think he's
gonna be behind in his rehab and will he be
ready for the season. I'm willing to wait on Nakobe
(21:08):
Dean because once he gets healthy, the way we're playing
linebacker these days, they don't have to be huge. He's
better than every linebacker they've got right now. So soon
as he plugs into the lineup, they're often running. So
to me, that was masterful to get him there. And
last year, you remember, they drafted Landon Dickerson out of
Florida's state in Alabama, right he played in two schools.
(21:32):
We thought he was the heir apparent at center for
Jason Kelsey, and he played guard last year. What this
draft pick of Cam Jurgens from Nebraska told me is
that the Eagles and Jeff Stoutland, they're offensive line coach,
have evaluated Landon Dickerson, think that he's really good at guard.
And now we've got our air apparent Camp Jurgens, a
center Kelsey with another one year deal. Give Jurgens a
(21:54):
chance to break in, You leave Dickerson and guard Jerkins
takes over at center. I really like all the things
they did, and I'm gonna leave it at this. Kyran
john In the linebacker out of Kansas, they drafted an
undersized pass rusher. They can use them as a DPR
designated pass rusher until he gets really comfortable, gets a
little weight under him. But boy, he plays with great
(22:15):
leverage that we thought the Senior Bowl he may not
look the part, but he was getting underneath these big
blockers and finding ways passed them and pass rush drills.
You know. You know what I'm curious about with Nakobe Dean.
The tape is very good. You know, you have to
like the player. There's nothing not to like based on tape.
I'd be curious if some teams thought because he's really
(22:37):
close to the bottom end of the spectrum in terms
of height for teams that look at that. And you know, Charles,
there are teams that do that. They have standards and
they have parameters for every position. We know that. But
the thing that stood out to me because Kirby Smart
is one of the few coaches in college football where
when you watch their defense you see true NFL pressure concepts,
(22:58):
and na Kobe Dean was an outstanding blitzer. And I'm
curious if John and Gannon, the d C for the
the Eagles, who last year I don't think could really
do a lot of the things he wanted to do
simply because he didn't have the personnel. I'm wondering if
they see Dean in that role as he matures and
develops and gets coached, because he was a really, really
(23:20):
good blitzer. He's very good playing forward. I like that,
and and the good thing he had. And but I
think what some people might have been concerned with Greg
is what he had in front of him. You guys
watched I mean, Bob, you do college football every week?
How many times have you gotten that shot on TV
that you you were not even talking about, but you
(23:40):
notice it. Greg sees it in the same way where
that shot is from behind the offensive huddle and the
defensive line has broken the huddle and they're waiting for
you and you look up. How many times have we
seen that with Georgia this year because it became a
favorite shot because you look up in that imposing defensive
line is standing their hands on hips. That defensive line
(24:02):
allowed him to do so many things with Nakobe Dean,
with Channing Tenda, with Quay Walker that because of the
size with Nakobe Dean, I think people were wondering was
he protected so well? Kenny hand fight through things if
I can't protect him as well, that caused him concern
as well going forward. But I think Greg is spot
on the Kobe Dean's just such a great player. I
(24:24):
comped him to Jonathan Vilma because he plays the game
with his brain as well. This is gonna be a
guy that that you don't have any worries about running
your defense through. And as soon as he gets healthy,
I love that pick. And to get him in the third,
to me, that's like an extra first round pick. Bob. Yeah, well,
Jonathan Vilma, I was had a hard time interviewing him
because it kind of felt stupid while I was talking
(24:45):
to him. Yeah, well I have that when I have that, Bob,
when I have conversations with him, I'm like, Jonathan, can
you can you translate what you just said to me? Hey? Um,
we're always looking for diamonds in the rough. You did
mock draft, so obviously you were someone that was looking
I mean literally all the way through this draft. So
in this trap, will you know? And I think sometimes
(25:05):
with the fans and media, we've spent so much time
talking about the first round, yeah, that we almost feel
like the draft is over on Thursday night. We're really
the guts of your team are put together in rounds
two through seven. Yeah, so who were which teams do
you think maybe did the best work based on your
you know, player evaluations, where there were some guys in
the second, third, and fourth round you were like, oh,
(25:27):
wait a minute, now they got a guy that I
just think it's a difference maker. Can I take Houston
as a whole? Sure? Sure, Let's face it, it's really easy.
It's been really easy to dump on Houston over the
last few years, hadn't it. I mean it's been real easy,
Like that's not even been sport for us. Okay, they've
looked like a total disarray. They look like, you know,
(25:48):
are they even trying out there with that roster? What's
going on? You know? You know, you you hire, you
hire a coach last year, and and and and uh
David McCulley, and then you you fired him in one
year and he's worked his butt off and those guys
play hard for him. So what exactly were you doing
at that place? You know, they have the Deshaun Watson
(26:09):
circus going on. I gotta tell you something, whatever was
said before Nick Cassario, in my mind, in this draft,
they went at it with conviction. I used that word
a lot. They decided to Derek Stingley, who I think
was the most talented corner in this draft. But I
understood why people out of my Gardener ahead of him,
because Gardener had been more consistent the last two seasons.
(26:32):
But Stingley at the top of his game, no question,
my my best corner in this draft. And when he
came back healthy for his Pro Day, and if you
put the time in and I assumed Houston did, to
be convinced that this guy's ready to elevate again. That's
why he went at three instead of a mod Gardener.
Then you come back and you get Kenyan Green at thirteen,
(26:53):
which I was joking with someone the Kenyan Green was
probably at the bowling alley or somewhere else because he
didn't expect to hear his name at thirteen. He didn't
think he even starting to hear name until the mid
twenties and then beyond. But at thirteen he provides I
think the most physical offensive guard in this draft. So
(27:13):
now you provided a second starter right away. Then you
go to Jaln Petrie. My favorite safety in the draft.
My favorite player was Kyle Hamilton and Notre Dame. So
I'm not changing that, but people have heard me throughout
this process. I've had a major man crush on Jaln
Petrie because instincts are huge in the secondary and Tyrone
Matthews the patron saying of instincts, we know that, But
(27:36):
since then I've said, Elijah Molden from who went to
the Titans last year, reminded me Antoine Winfield when he
came out of Minnesota before he went to the Bucks.
Reminded me Jalen Petrie is this year's example to me
of that guy. Now you talking about those guys, Bob
who we got in the third, fourth, fifth, how about
getting Christian Harrison, linebacker from Alabama. And the third Damian
(27:57):
Pierce are running back from Florida who is a thumper
yet catches the ball well out of the backfield. The
oddity he's going to be that his first one yard
rushing game will happen in the NFL. He never had
it in college because they've moved the ball around so
much and they didn't stick with the run as much
of Florida. And then Thomas Booker, the de tackle from Stanford.
(28:17):
It can be a great zero technique and run stopper,
tea Qua Torriano the tight end from Morgan State, more
blocker than catcher, Austin Deculus for tackle from Louisiana State.
I think great value through there because they will compete.
But Derek Stingley one, Kenyan Green one, Jalen Petrie to
John Netchi the receiver from Alabama too when he gets healthy,
(28:40):
Christian Harris free from Alabama. All of them will start
as soon as they are ready to go meeting health wise,
They're immediate starters. And I think Damian Pierce, he immediately
takes some carries from Rex burke Head. I thought it
was about his professional a draft as Houston has had
in a while. Now, you know, just a real quick point,
and I love your thought, and it's probably a longer conversation.
(29:03):
But Jalen Petrie is fascinating to me because he obviously
is you know, Charles, he played what they call the
start position, so he played slot corner, box safety and
outside linebacker. Okay, and obviously when you watch his tape
in college, he was all over the place. He made
a lot of plays. But I kept trying to think,
what is he going to be in the NFL because
(29:24):
and I'm just being honest, and again, this is what
I try to do. I think about projection and transition
because they played a ton of zone at UH in college. Now,
of course Lovely Smith does too, and I know a
lot of people said he's a slot corner, but he
didn't really play much man coverage, So to me, that
would have been a projection if you see him as
a slot corner and then there's a true safety. I
(29:46):
was thinking to myself, is he really truly athletic enough
to be that guy in a love E. Smith system?
He could be. I'm not sure. And then I can
keep coming back to the argument that, well, the guy's
made plays in college, He's just gonna keep making plays.
And I would just love quick thought from you, because
I I think he's a really good player on tape.
(30:07):
I just was uncertain in my mind as to what
his projection would be in the NFL. Yeah, I think you're.
I think you're. It's a great question, Greg, because I
think you have to convince yourself of different things when
you when you go back and look at his measurables
and then go back and watch him run move all
those things. Because he started there as a pure outside linebacker.
(30:28):
So that's this kind of a move was almost like
uh Carnel Lake coming out of U. C l A. Remember,
he was like a pure outside back through c l A.
He was under size, but because he was so athletic,
the Steelers made him a safety, and boy did they
hit on that one. Petrie started as an outside back
or Baylor, but as you pointed out, played that star position,
(30:50):
so he had to have the traits of everything. It's
kind of like an astrology. If you're born within three
days of either side of the dates on your thing,
you get the characteristics of both signs. Well, that's kind
of what Petrie was. He was in the cuff outside
linebacker here, safety here, linebacker, you know, and that dime
linebacker here. What I think he is is where the
(31:12):
game has moved to as well, that Buffalo safety deal, Greg,
where you have three Yeah, you mean the nickel right.
He's more the big nickel guy as opposed to the
nickel corner, as you pointed out, because the nickel corner
wasn't much of what he was really locked in doing. No,
he didn't play a lot of man, didn't play a
lot of man, But I will say this. He moves
(31:34):
and he's fluid, and he ran way better than what
people thought. I think he can do all the characteristics
of everything else. I'm betting on his instincts about the
football to be that type of a player, and I think,
to love you to find find plenty of ways to
do that. That's what I'm counting on. So I think
it's a great question, and it is a little bit
of a projection. And Bob, I think that takes me
(31:57):
to why Trent Baky went number one with Trayvon Walker,
because there is a bit of a project ship. There
is a thing that Treyvon Walker is going to be
a great pass rusher because you don't go draft a
guy at one for six sacks a year. You draft
a guy at one for double digit sacks a year.
And Trayvon Walker never did that at Georgia. Adan Hutchinson
(32:18):
did that in Michigan. That's why people are like, WHOA,
what's going on here? The projection for them is the athleticism,
the scheme he played at Georgia where he took up
double teams where they didn't put him out there is
a wide nine. All those things. They think that all
that can emerge and they see that upside as being
big and that's what Trent Baky put his name on
the line for. Well, Charles, I can't tell you how
(32:40):
much we appreciate the time you've given us all this information.
I mean, we could go team by teams for this
entire drafted you with. The problem is, by the time
we got done with all the information you and Greg have,
you'd be in the booth calling your first team of
the season. Hey hey, we don't, we don't. We'd all
be right there at kickoff, wouldn't we. But hopefully we
can do this again with you at some point down
the road. We love talking ball with you. Thanks a million,
(33:02):
Thanks a million, thanks for having time to give me
this time with you guys. It is flat out terrific
and you know I love picking your brains as well.
Look forward to seeing you again soon. Bob's same with you, Greg. Thanks, Charles,
really appreciate it. Thanks a lot of guys, You're the best.
Thanks Charles. That is Charles Davis, so much information. And
we're back tomorrow with another and I guess our final
episode of Tape Heads Draft season to wrap up our
(33:24):
coverage and our look back at the two NFL trapt
Boble Shoosing a great post, Cell, Thanks for being a
tape pend
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