Stay Or Go: Couples Therapy

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Fred Show is on. It's stay or go?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hi, Ry Brian, Brian, Brian, what it's like?

Speaker 1 (00:08):
You weren't sure? Well I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I had to click over make sure I don't memorize
every third. I mean, I know most of the thirteen
people's listen to our show's name because my mom is
one of them. I know her name, and like your
dad and your mom Martha, Yeah, Danita Westloup, tom So, Yeah,
I can name most of them.

Speaker 1 (00:27):
Hi, Brian, how you doing all right?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
How are you guys?

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I'm sorry that I don't know your social Security number
and blood type, but I'm sure Rufio will figure it out.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
What's going on with you? Brian?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
What's happening in this is about your wife?

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Yeah, we've been going to kind of a rough patch
for a while now, and I'm just trying to get
some advice about that.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
You know what.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
You have come to the right place because we give
incredible advice. Some people in this room their advice they
follow it in their real life and then things go
really well. Other people, like me, I give great advice.
I just am sort of a disaster personally, So let
me fix your life though, please, By all means tell
us what's going on.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Well, yeah, so, like I said, we've been going through
a rough patch. Everything kind of seems to turn into
a fight. Nowadays, it doesn't matter, you know what we're
talking about. I've been seeing a therapist for a little while.
That's been helping me out a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:23):
Calmer, I'm able to just be in the moment more.
But she's resisting. She doesn't want to go to couple's counseling.
I mentioned that, I mentioned maybe just going to therapy
on her own, so it's not like in front of me.
She says she doesn't need it and she can work
it out, that we can work it out, and we're

(01:43):
not trying hard enough.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Huh. So you guys are not getting along. You can't
solve it yourselves. You're doing the work on your end.
Is she going? Is she at least going to therapy
on her You're not going together, but is she going
on her end?

Speaker 3 (01:59):
No, she says she doesn't need it, that we can
work it out on her own.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Oh, I thought as far as like, she's not going
with you because I have to tell you if things
are not going well, and you did, we've got some
married folks in the room, so you guys can are
nearly married in Jason's case, if things are not going
well in common law, if there was such a thing.

Speaker 4 (02:18):
Oh I wish this was a common law state.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Yeah, there was such a thing.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Then you own half of them exactly, and he owns
half of you, which is a bunch of debts. So right,
But if you're in a relationship, you're married, and it's
not going well and no one, no one has any
solutions for how to make it better. I think therapy
is a good one, or you know, if you're religious,
maybe you go to church. I don't know, some form

(02:42):
of like mediation. But if if no one has any ideas,
then I don't. I don't know how hard anybody's trying,
or how much anybody really wants to be there, because
that requires some self awareness and it requires some compromise.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
It sounds like she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.
Sounds like she thinks is the problem is all you,
So if you just go to therapy and work on it,
we'll get better. And you're saying, no, I have needs
that are being met too.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah, absolutely, Like if it feels like she doesn't want
to even work things out as much as I do.
Like she she doesn't want to put in the work,
Like we're just in a slump and that's just the
way it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Do you think she would agree things are not going well?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:23):
We talk about it all the time, like, okay, we're
fighting constantly.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
Okay, So then have you tried going to her and saying, hey, look,
this isn't working. I'm suggesting couples therapy. You're saying no,
So what is your suggestion? Like, what do you think
we should do to make this better? Have you tried that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
She says we can go on a vacation for a
few days. I'm trying to stay, you know, get away
from all all of our problems. But I'm like, they'll
be here when we get back.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
It's it's going to be a fake thingey, But let's
go on vacation.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yeah, that's almost as good as things are going terribly.
Let's have a child, Yeah, that's next, which is what people.
Unfortunately a lot of people do that and like somehow
that adding that stress of another life, will we'll solve
all the problems? Yeah? I don't know, Brian, We're gonna
talk about you behind your back and take some phone
calls and have the radio on. And I'm sorry going

(04:15):
through this and I wish you the very best man.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
Thank you guy.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
Yeah, eight five five, five nine one one oh three five.
You can call and text the same number. All right,
married people, first, what do you think, Paulina If you're
having trouble in your marriage and you're suggesting therapy, and
in this case, Javier is saying, no way, I won't go.
I'm not going. I know we have problems, but I'm
not gonna do anything about it.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
What do you do?

Speaker 5 (04:39):
So first, I'm really proud of Brian because I feel
like I don't really hear of a lot of men
being the ones to kind of, you know, suggest therapy
and be the one who wants to do it.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
So I love that for them.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
But I have been in Brian's shoes where my husband,
Javier did not want to go to therapy.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
We have not done couple's therapy. It's not off the table.

Speaker 5 (04:57):
I still want to do it, but I want to
understand that it's not a sign of weakness. It doesn't
mean that your marriage is like that you're not good
with this marriage thing. It's just someone's going to provide
tools to help you guys get through your issues.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yes, I would argue it's a sign of strength. I
would argue, for help is strength. That's what I hear
a lot of people, and culturally or otherwise I was
gonna say gender based or whatever it is, there are
people that just have this opinion that it's like voodoo
magic and then it's beyond word.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
And I'm married to a Mexican man, and I think culturally,
I think that's something that's just not ever talked about
or for for him too, like that's not he's not
about that life.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
And I've told him before.

Speaker 5 (05:33):
And I didn't mean to like weaponize it, but I'm like,
I really think therapy would help you and me because
I have a therapist and she told me that for
us to continue doing this together, we can go to
a couple's therapy.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
We'll find another therapist. It doesn't have to be mine,
because you.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Should find you should find a neutral therapist. You should
not go to.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yours exactly or his or his exactly.

Speaker 5 (05:52):
So I was like, we'll find somebody neutral that I
have not spoken to, and we can do this together.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
It's not off the table.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
We have a daughter now, so I want us to
be in the best damn shape or when it comes to, like,
you know, being mentally.

Speaker 4 (06:02):
Good for us to be able to raise her well.

Speaker 5 (06:04):
So for me, I'm still working on it, and I
know he's open to it, he's not shut me down,
but we haven't gotten there yet.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I think for some people it's a pride thing. It's
like to go into a room and tell a stranger
about everything that's not working. You know you're having It's
a kind of vulnerability and a level of exposure that
a lot of people are not comfortable with, and that
that makes sense. I understand that, But I know someone
else is going through something very similar right now, where
it's just not working, and they would both tell you
independently it's not working. But yet he refuses. He will

(06:32):
not accept help. He will not there's no mediation. It
doesn't matter if he picks a therapist, it doesn't matter
if they go to a church, it doesn't matter any
of them.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
He won't do it.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
And it's like, then, my thing is if you're if
you're not going to do anything to make it better,
then I don't even know what they're doing right because
nothing's going to change unless that unless he in this case,
just I guess, caves on everything that he has an
issue with which is not sustainable either.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
What would you do.

Speaker 4 (07:02):
I'm a big advocate for therapy.

Speaker 6 (07:03):
Yeah, I think he should absolutely or she should absolutely
go to therapy to say her marriage, Like, your partner
is still there, Your partner is still willing to fight,
They want to help you guys get over this hump,
like they still the desire to be together is still there.
And if that is the case, then you both parties
should be willing to do whatever it takes to get.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
It right right.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
But it sounds like, you know, in some cases it's like, well,
the problem is all his. And I think if you're
in a relationship and you're saying the problem is entirely
on someone else, I think that shows a tremendous lack
of self awareness because the problem is never one hundred
rarely one hundred percent on one side. It may not
be fifty to fifty all the time, but it's never

(07:46):
always somebody else's fault. There's gotta be something that you
could do in response or get out or leave if
it really is, if the person is that much of
a monster.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Then I don't know what you're doing there?

Speaker 2 (07:56):
Then what's the point and you can't fix it or
work towards it?

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Than why even there?

Speaker 6 (08:01):
True? But as a couple, I just feel like you
got to be willing. Even if you believe in your
mind that it's all the other person, you're still in
a relationship, so you need to be willing to help
work help them work through their issue.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I also think sometimes when people won't go to therapy,
it's because they know that they're going to be told
they're doing things wrong and they can't handle that.

Speaker 4 (08:19):
True, that's a good point.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
It's like they don't they don't want to go because
someone might hold them accountable for something, you know, and
they it might turn out that there are things that
they could do better too, and they don't want to
hear it from a stranger. That's really yeah, and that's
that's fair, and that's really that's really honest.

Speaker 7 (08:37):
So it's been brought up in our marriage that you know,
we've gotten to the point where it's just like we'll
fight and it's like a big fight and she'll be like,
you need we need therapy like this, you know whatever,
And I am one that like I advocate to anybody
else to go to Like for me, I feel like
it I don't know, like it's it's a pride thing,
it's a it's a cultural thing, like I feel like,

(08:59):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
But it's so you don't want to go in there
and have them say, hey, you know what, Rufio, like
you should do this, this and this differently, and you
don't really want to hear from somebody e yes. Do
you think though that I mean, I'm sure they would
have things for jests too, but do you think that
if you could get past that, that hearing it or
at least working through it with somebody who's trained to

(09:20):
sort of extract information from her and extract information from
you and then sort of because it's not even necessarily
they're going to sit there and judge you. You know,
in a lot of ways, it's about communication techniques. It's
like you're going to say this, and you're going to
say that, and as opposed to having this impast where
you both go to your corners, you know, it would
be the professional who would then say, okay, are you
hearing this from both sides? And you know what I mean,

(09:41):
Like there's there's there's obviously a technique to all this.
It's not necessarily they're going to tell you that you're
a terrible husher.

Speaker 8 (09:45):
I know it.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, I don't. I just don't know. I don't.

Speaker 7 (09:51):
The financial aspect of it also, right, So it's it's
there's so many issues, but like obviously Just and I
work through issues and then we're good. But like, sometimes
it does come up, and I'm always the one to
be like like, I don't want to do it interesting.

Speaker 9 (10:09):
So before things get you know what I mean, Like
you can go when things are good so that things
don't get back, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
I know people who have gone when they're engaged like that,
like I think you should. Things are going great, I
mean great, great enough that you just got engaged, but
they're going ahead of time. Like it's almost you know,
prophylactically preemptively because you're right, we're not fighting yet, but like,
let's maybe get ahead of it and discover some things
about ourselves and our communication techniques and whatever else before

(10:35):
it gets to that point.

Speaker 4 (10:36):
It's honest, it's very scary to go through that.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
No, and that is super honest. I'm proud of you
for saying that, yeah, you know, I don't know. I
think it could. You know, I'm always going to advocate
for it. I'm always going to advocate for therapy because
it's helped me so much.

Speaker 9 (10:47):
And my mom's a therapy you know what I mean.
It's just making that call and like talking to someone new.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
And I grew up with a therapist, so yeah, I
get it.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Yeah, Hey Megan, Right, Hi Megan, So just let me
recap here. There go someone just tuning in. Brian called.
He and his wife are having issues in their relationship
and they fight all the time and they acknowledge that
there are issues. He's saying, hey, let's go to a
couple's therapies. She's saying I'm not going, and so he's
wondering what do I do? What does he do?

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Well?

Speaker 10 (11:16):
I was in a very similar situation as Brian about
two and a half years ago. I wanted to go
to a couple of counseling. I was seeing a therapist
on my own, and my then husband said, nope, I'm
totally fine, there's nothing wrong with me. If we go
to a couple of counseling, the counselor is going to
pick on you. Because you have all the issues, you
have all the problems. So he refused to go. And

(11:39):
now we are two and a half years divorced. So
there's only so much you can do. So much you
can say, is she doesn't want to work on it,
then yeah, she admits that there's problems, but the whole
vacation thing, trying to run away again, problems are going
to be there when you get back.

Speaker 2 (11:55):
And I think it's interesting really in the case I'm
thinking of where it's like, well, then is a friend
of mine for a long time, like, we'll go to him.

Speaker 1 (12:01):
What does he suggest then?

Speaker 2 (12:02):
And the only thing that he seems to suggest is
that she should change everything about who she is and
everything that she's doing. That is not sustainable, that is
not realistic. And even if she did all of that,
that's not true to her. That's not a compromise, that's
not being heard, that's not being self aware or accountable.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
It's not gonna work.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
So, you know, if you're worried about going to so
and so therapist or so and so, then you pick it, fine,
you go find somebody. Then you know, you go find
a professional and not your buddy, like someone who's logo,
your licensed you know who's independent. But thank you Megan
and I. I'm sorry to hear about that outcome, but
I hope, I hope you know, moving forward, it was.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
A good thing.

Speaker 10 (12:40):
Oh no, that's okay. I'm not sorry at all.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Fair enough, thank you. Someone said, did Fred to say prophylactically?
Look it up. It's not just condoms. I didn't just
tell people to work condoms. There's another meaning for the word. Yeah,
that's interesting, Actually how you do it. Every time I
say prophilogically, people are like, he just had condoms?

Speaker 1 (13:02):
I did. I didn't, Hi, Ashley, what do you want
to say?

Speaker 11 (13:05):
So I was saying go only because I went through
literally the same exact thing. But I have two experiences
of wanting of somebody I was with wanting to go
to therapy. The first time it happened, I was engaged.
I was so mentally checked out of that relationship. She
was actually the one that wanted to go to therapy,

(13:26):
and I was one hundred percent like how Brian's wife
is acting, didn't want to go, blamed all the problems
on her or whatever.

Speaker 10 (13:35):
Yeah, it wasn't great.

Speaker 11 (13:36):
In that relationship, But needle us to say that relationship
ended after we were engaged, never got married. I am
happily married. Now we kind of hit a little bit of.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
A rough patch.

Speaker 11 (13:46):
My wife suggested therapy, and I, you know, I love
her so much and I was absolutely one hundred percent
on it with going to therapy with her.

Speaker 10 (13:56):
I let her choose who we went to.

Speaker 11 (13:58):
We've been seeing the same thing therapist for a couple
months now and it's actually been going amazing and it's
been helping. So I'm saying, oh, only because if she
wanted to go, if she loved it and wanted to
fix it.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
She would go to therapy.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Well, Ashley, thank you for sharing that. And I'm glad
that it sounds like maybe you learned from the last
situation and didn't make the same mistake twice. So good
for you. All right, thank you, Thank you, Ashley. Have
a good day. She's like, good, I got friend's approval,
so I can move on with life now. I don't
care what you think.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Hey Kendall, Hi, good morning, Hey, good morning guys. Hi
are you yeah? I go doing great? Stare go? What
do you think?

Speaker 12 (14:35):
So I would say to try to stay and I
only say this, and I have to kind of backstory slightly.
I started therapy way back in the day when I
was eighteen or nineteen, and I had a father that
didn't advocate for therapy and told me I just needed
to try harder. So it was really difficult to accept
the help just on my own going I needed something else.

(14:58):
So it's the one thing that I've learned, and I'm
happily married now. We're so mainly went for going on
three years, but with me doing the therapy on my own,
it's actually helped my perspective on how I communicate with
my husband. And yes, it's hard to get someone to
do something they don't want to do. You can't force that.

(15:19):
But by being able to go, okay, well this is
how I feel, and to kind of pull the therapy
card on them, it does kind of help that communication
with each other. And I also feel there's that stereotype of,
for whatever reason, the generations before us think if you're
in therapy, there's something wrong with you. But again, as

(15:40):
you all were saying, it's very admirable to admit, hey,
I need to work on this, I need to help,
we need to help. And if it takes one person
to just work a little harder to kind of open
that door for his significant other. Then that might be
what happens, and if it doesn't, then there might be
another discussion. But it's just communica. She needs to go

(16:00):
both ways. Yeah, yeah, I'm a coal advocate.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
They well, and Kendall, I'm glad you've had your having
success and you're happy and everything's going well. And thank
you for listening for calling. Have a great day you too.
And I know there are a lot of different barriers
to entry for therapy. Maybe it's expense, maybe it's a stigma,
maybe it's you know, I don't know, misunderstanding or whatever,
a lack of vulnerability. But I have to tell you,

(16:25):
as someone who has gone to therapy consistently for ten years,
I almost resent people in my life who refuse to
do it, especially if they want to sit back and
make comments about me or about a relationship.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
It's like, wait a minute.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
But and in some ways I have to even rain
it in a little bit because I become like it's
almost the elitist. It's like, wait a minute, I'm doing
the work like I every week, and how.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Hard is it?

Speaker 2 (16:49):
I mean I sit there and I go and I
bear my soul to this woman and then she tells
me what she thinks or whatever. But it's like, but
you're not even willing to do that for yourself, but
yet you're gonna tell me what you think about me.
It's like, that's I don't like that. I think it's
very telling when you're doing the work and somebody else
won't do the work and will continue to point fingers
at you. I've also I've also known people to weaponize

(17:11):
therapy too, but that's a whole different conversation.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
I think, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
I think what happens in the confines of your therapy,
you have to keep in mind is for you. And like,
you can tell your therapist whatever you want. You can
you can tell your therapist any story you want, and
they can give you the advice based in the story
you told. Then you can use that against somebody else.
Doesn't make it doesn't mean it's true. It doesn't mean
you were telling the story accurately or that. And that's

(17:36):
another thing too. It's like, if you're going to go
in and tell your therapist a bunch of bs so
that they can tell you that your partner's an idiot,
well that's not going to help anything, So you're what
you're wasting everybody's time at that point, Like you got
to go into this thing willing to say here, here
are here are my issues that I have with the
other person, and here are the issues they have with me.
You know, you've got to be willing to do that,
otherwise you won't work. Is it am a met Yes?

Speaker 1 (18:00):
How you do? Hey, good morning to be on Hi
there go? What are you think? So?

Speaker 8 (18:05):
One of my mentors say, is a relationship beat spousal anything.
It's always one hundred hundred, not fifty to fifty. So
I believe at times when we as spouse and I'm
myself married, we tend to see that, okay, what can
we do together?

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Fifty fifty?

Speaker 8 (18:23):
Putting in the relationship. I think somehow that dogma fails,
and I think I'm just trying to change the frame
from going to couple therapy as a question point to
more of how could brand solve this issue? There are
I'm from India and what I've seen is back in India,
unlike in Western cultures, a couple therapy is not a

(18:44):
big big thing over there. Over there, typically we seek
advice from elders and obviously it could change something over
here in the similar respect looking but seeking advice from
somebody who has gone through those ups and downs in
the journey is definitely very helpful. And one of the

(19:04):
advice that I think that can help Brian would be
that there's an event by Tony Robbins. He calls it
as a date with Destiny in which there's a specific
segment around relationships. So instead of if this spouse is
not ready to go for a couple therapy, it's sort
of that same thing, but he opens the door for

(19:25):
your own opening, uh and changes a vantage point to
see the relationship itself and with more than so many people.
I'm not trying to advocate it the event, but I
understand say some of those things, some of those interventions
are definitely required. It could be in any shape and
form that I've been working there.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
All right, that's a good point, Yeah, yeah, it is.
Thank you have a great day. I'm glad you called him.

Speaker 6 (19:47):
He may not have a therapist, but like he mentioned,
going to other couples who have been through it already
or confiding in like elders.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I know for Timothy and.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
I like our therapist is my brother and his wife,
Like we both go to the when there's an issue
and we've had them you know, come to us with things,
and it kind of like it helps. You know, it's
not therapy, but you should have an outlet that you
can trust that's non biased, that can help you get advice.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
And that's good that it's your people, but but you
both feel in this case like like like they're able
to be impartial. Right, That's because that's another thing is
about the therapy is you could go to your sister
and be like big Tim's is an idiot for all
these reasons and not talk about any of the you know,
maybe culpability that you have.

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Right, maybe it's not fifty to fifty.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Maybe it's seventy thirty, maybe it's sixty forty, whatever it is,
but it's you know, if you go to the Homer
and you tell the Homer everything it's terrible, then they're
going to be they're gonna tell.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
You're right, right, Like if I go to my sister
and they're going to enable you, there's.

Speaker 6 (20:43):
Absolutely like my she's like, Kiki's right, I don't care
what I'm talking about, but my brothers will actually called
me out on my stuff.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Too.

Speaker 6 (20:49):
So doing that kind of couple or friendship that you
can go to is helpful to because.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Everyone's got that person that can go to who's going
to gass them up no matter what. And it's just
not that may not be helpful, you know, because because
they may just be gassing you up, but you may
be dead ass wrong.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
Oh yeah, no. Everyone tells me I'm wrong, but I
asked them. I'm like, be honest, especially my mom.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Because it doesn't do you any good for people just
to tell you that you're right all the time when
maybe you're not.

Speaker 5 (21:14):
Nope, literally like roast me, drill me, Like tell me
what you gotta tell me? No, Like like like tell me,
be honest.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Roast me, drill me. I think it's a song. And yeah,
yeah yeah, if you want to roast drill me. What
were the other two tall?

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Push me? It's carpenter topic.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, I know it's coming up in just a minute,
the Entertainment Report and she'll be Shelly.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Both next friends