June 30, 2025 • 10 mins
We explore the idea that a dominant pitcher, such as Tarik Skubal or Paul Skenes, can be considered a baseball team's best overall player.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
We know our own team, but certain teams, if they
don't have a face, who's the pirate's face?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Cabrian Hayes, Oh, you'll probably Paul Skeens. To your point,
he's not an everyday player.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Right, O'Neil Cruz.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Let me ask you this, when you and your buddies
talk about Trek Skooble, has anyone ever described him as
the Tigers' best player or do they describe him as
the league's best pitcher.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Yeah, it's more so a big picture thing.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
And yeah, when you're talking about everyday players, obviously he's
not even eligible for that. So he comes up in
conversation a lot. But when you talk about best player,
it's usually Riley Green is what people say.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, can a guy be I've asked this question of
pictures in the past, and you know the answer you're
going to be you're going to get. I should say,
if a guy only does one thing, but he does
it at the highest level, compared to a guy who
does a lot of different things, well the guy who
is just singularly great at one thing be your team's
(01:05):
best player.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't know that's a good question, because in football
you'd say maybe the quarterback can be your best player.
Like who's the Chief's best player. It's probably Patrick Mahomes, right,
And he's one thing though, Yeah he's a dual threat quarterback.
But I guess my point is just he's he plays
one position. He does, he has one responsibility.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, I think, yeah, it's a good point. I think
in football, everybody's playing just one position except Travis Hunter. Okay,
I mean maybe you'll have a special teams guy, but
let's be honest, quarterbacks, they're not. No one's George Blanda
who also kicked and was a quarterback, So no one's
doing that stuff anymore. So let's be careful there. But
(01:48):
when it comes to football, I mean, look, Penny Suwle
is ranked as the best player on the team. He
run blocks, he pass protects, I know, he runs over
bassorship It's funny, can you be your best player? I
think in football because everybody does basically does the one thing,
(02:08):
unless it's a punter or a kicker. Because if you're
a defensive player, you're you're tackling, you're intercepting, you're stripping
the ball. There's a lot of different things that you're doing.
You may play one position that doesn't mean you only
do one thing. In baseball, you play the one position pitching,
You're only doing the one thing. Now, you may be
fielding your position, granted, but you're doing the one thing,
(02:29):
and that's pitching.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Same with a d H on the other side, right.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
You're only hitting. On the other hand, when you when
you see certain other sports or certain other if a
team stinks and their best player is the pitcher, how
do you deny that? Like I've told you the story
(02:56):
about Steve Carleton. Remember Steve Carleton arguably the best lefty
of my youth. It's a phenomenal player, all right. The
Hall of Famer won four cy Youngs. All right, he
won twenty seven games in nineteen seventy two. He won
the Cy Young in nineteen seventy two. He was twenty
(03:17):
seven and ten. His team that year was awful. They
won like fifty plus games. So can he be their
best player on a crappy team like that? Can he
be their best player? Who else would it be?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And that the modern example of that is Paul Skins
for the Pirates.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That's that's the long way around where I'm getting, Okay,
team won fifty nine games in nineteen seventy two. That
dude won twenty seven of them.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Think about that for a minute.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
He's doing his fair share.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, can Paul Skeens be part of that? I mean
that team had Larry Boa, Greg Lozinski. They had a
couple of good players on their team, but they weren't
good enough. Tim McCarver was the catcher on that team,
the same guy who won a World Series in nineteen
(04:18):
sixty eight with the Saint Lewis Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
You know what, Mike Schmidt was on that team. He
was a rookie.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think he only had a handful of games. But
Mike Schmidt was on that team. So would you say
now later on in life, you'd take Mike Schmid, of course,
because Hall of Fame third basement one of the best
third basement of all time, arguably the best third basement
of all of them. But that year he was the
best player for the Philadelphia Phillies. To your point, Paul Skeens, Yes,
(04:52):
Trek Schoolbell. Pretty hard to say that on a team
that is the best has the best record in baseball,
don't you think.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Okay, you could say the most dominant player, but that
might be more of pitcher centric.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Like, if you are one of the best teams in baseball,
possibly the best team in baseball, you got the best record,
then of course you're gonna have some great players in
the field.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
At what he does. He's the best at what he does.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yes, Like Riley Green may not be the best home
run hitter, may not be the best hitter, may not
be the best fielder, but all together he is.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
He's their best all.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Those Yeah, he's your best all around player. Tarrek Scouoble
is the best Tiger at what he does, Which does
that mean he's the best player on the team. To me,
that does not compute well.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So, Chef, I like to think about it does make sense,
And I like to think about this in video game terms,
because you play these video games and they have certain
ratings for everyone's ability at every given thing. Right, So
Riley Green might have the best well rounded overall score.
But Tarrek scouble is a plus at throwing strikes, He's
a plus with armed velocity and all this kind of stuff.
(06:05):
And so to your point, he's the best at what
he does. But Riley Green across the board probably has
the better score. Obviously, Sterrek School's not hitting. Yeah, he's
not hitting. He's not fielding as well, all that stuff, right,
it all comes into play.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I don't know if wins above replacement is the great
equalizer in this conversation.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It could be Terrek Schooble's War is.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Three point nine, Riley Green's is two point seven.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I do think war is a fair stat to look at, yeah,
because that doesn't matter what your position is for war, right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
That's right, absolutely right, So that therein lies right there,
probably the end of the argument that he can be.
I mean, if you look at War for the Pirates
Paul's I mean, I don't know if people realize that
Paul Skean's got a better war than Terrek Schouble. Paul
Skeens's War is four point one to Terrek School is
(07:10):
three point nine. We're splitting hairs here, Okay, Paul skeins
is four and seven. Terrek School just won his tenth
consecutive decision. So that's why wins oftentimes in baseball.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
For misleading, very misleading.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
We talked about it, Paul Skeens, I think it was
three or four starts ago for him. But the Pirates
lost one. Nothing great.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We talked about the number of times his team has
he's had to deal with in his career. We talked
about this two weeks ago, in his career, how many
times he's been supported by one run or less, how
he's walked off the mound giving up just one run
and he ends up taking a loss or a no decision.
(07:58):
That to me is the amount, the percentage is. It's
super high. I forget the exact number right now, but
that's I mean, it's super high. Paul Skeins with that
war at four point one, so put it in perspective.
I'll put it in perspective for you, okay. Aaron Judge's
war is five point nine. Paul Skeenes's war is the
(08:22):
equivalent to that of Kyle Tucker, and Kyle Tucker right
now is fifth in all of baseball in wins above replacement.
The only players better Aaron Judge, Jeremy Pania, who just
got hurt, Cal Rally, who's got thirty two homers. Only
(08:46):
Ken Griffy Junior has more in Seattle history prior to
the All Star Break, and Pete Crow Armstrong. Those are
the only players with a higher war than Paul Skeens,
who are every day play years now, and if you
look at it from a pitching perspective, he has the
highest war then it's terrorist school and Max Freed. So
(09:10):
here's the only thing I would ask you, And I
think you bring up a really good point, and I
think it's legitimate if we think he's the best pitcher
in baseball. I think a lot of people feel that way.
I feel that way, if we feel like we can
use that number to prove that he's the best player
on the Tigers.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Are you with me so far?
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Yes? I know where you're going with this.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yes, Then why can he Why is he the best
pitcher in baseball when his number is not as high
as Paul.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Skins exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And it's a great question, and it's a great point,
and a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Of it is probably because he leads the league in
strikeouts and strikeouts per nine and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And he wins games, and a lot of that has
to do with how good your team is.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
But right or wrong, ill, my apologies, he doesn't lead
the league in strikeouts per nine. Mackenzie Gordon, All Nice,
Dylan Cees, Chris Saals, Zach Wheeler all higher strikeouts per
night doesn't make them better. I'm just saying, I'm just
trying to give you facts here, but that's what we do.
I think a lot of it, too, is the walk factor,
the strikeout to walk. He's got one hundred and thirty
(10:16):
eight strikeouts, he's got fourteen walks. He walked his fourteenth
batter of the year last night. No one's really close.
It's crazy how he is around the zone, challenging batters
and just saying, I dare you because I don't think
you can. And we can all understand that. It's just
a different way to look at it, and I think
(10:38):
it's an important way to look at it.
We know our own team, but certain teams, if they
don't have a face, who's the pirate's face?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Cabrian Hayes, Oh, you'll probably Paul Skeens. To your point,
he's not an everyday player.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Right, O'Neil Cruz.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Let me ask you this, when you and your buddies
talk about Trek Skooble, has anyone ever described him as
the Tigers' best player or do they describe him as
the league's best pitcher.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Yeah, it's more so a big picture thing.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
And yeah, when you're talking about everyday players, obviously he's
not even eligible for that. So he comes up in
conversation a lot. But when you talk about best player,
it's usually Riley Green is what people say.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, can a guy be I've asked this question of
pictures in the past, and you know the answer you're
going to be you're going to get. I should say,
if a guy only does one thing, but he does
it at the highest level, compared to a guy who
does a lot of different things, well the guy who
is just singularly great at one thing be your team's
(01:05):
best player.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I don't know that's a good question, because in football
you'd say maybe the quarterback can be your best player.
Like who's the Chief's best player. It's probably Patrick Mahomes, right,
And he's one thing though, Yeah he's a dual threat quarterback.
But I guess my point is just he's he plays
one position. He does, he has one responsibility.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, I think, yeah, it's a good point. I think
in football, everybody's playing just one position except Travis Hunter. Okay,
I mean maybe you'll have a special teams guy, but
let's be honest, quarterbacks, they're not. No one's George Blanda
who also kicked and was a quarterback, So no one's
doing that stuff anymore. So let's be careful there. But
(01:48):
when it comes to football, I mean, look, Penny Suwle
is ranked as the best player on the team. He
run blocks, he pass protects, I know, he runs over
bassorship It's funny, can you be your best player? I
think in football because everybody does basically does the one thing,
(02:08):
unless it's a punter or a kicker. Because if you're
a defensive player, you're you're tackling, you're intercepting, you're stripping
the ball. There's a lot of different things that you're doing.
You may play one position that doesn't mean you only
do one thing. In baseball, you play the one position pitching,
You're only doing the one thing. Now, you may be
fielding your position, granted, but you're doing the one thing,
(02:29):
and that's pitching.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Same with a d H on the other side, right.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
You're only hitting. On the other hand, when you when
you see certain other sports or certain other if a
team stinks and their best player is the pitcher, how
do you deny that? Like I've told you the story
(02:56):
about Steve Carleton. Remember Steve Carleton arguably the best lefty
of my youth. It's a phenomenal player, all right. The
Hall of Famer won four cy Youngs. All right, he
won twenty seven games in nineteen seventy two. He won
the Cy Young in nineteen seventy two. He was twenty
(03:17):
seven and ten. His team that year was awful. They
won like fifty plus games. So can he be their
best player on a crappy team like that? Can he
be their best player? Who else would it be?
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:38):
And that the modern example of that is Paul Skins
for the Pirates.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
That's that's the long way around where I'm getting, Okay,
team won fifty nine games in nineteen seventy two. That
dude won twenty seven of them.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Think about that for a minute.
Speaker 4 (03:57):
He's doing his fair share.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah, can Paul Skeens be part of that? I mean
that team had Larry Boa, Greg Lozinski. They had a
couple of good players on their team, but they weren't
good enough. Tim McCarver was the catcher on that team,
the same guy who won a World Series in nineteen
(04:18):
sixty eight with the Saint Lewis Cardinals.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
You know what, Mike Schmidt was on that team. He
was a rookie.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think he only had a handful of games. But
Mike Schmidt was on that team. So would you say
now later on in life, you'd take Mike Schmid, of course,
because Hall of Fame third basement one of the best
third basement of all time, arguably the best third basement
of all of them. But that year he was the
best player for the Philadelphia Phillies. To your point, Paul Skeens, Yes,
(04:52):
Trek Schoolbell. Pretty hard to say that on a team
that is the best has the best record in baseball,
don't you think.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Okay, you could say the most dominant player, but that
might be more of pitcher centric.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Like, if you are one of the best teams in baseball,
possibly the best team in baseball, you got the best record,
then of course you're gonna have some great players in
the field.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
At what he does. He's the best at what he does.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Yes, Like Riley Green may not be the best home
run hitter, may not be the best hitter, may not
be the best fielder, but all together he is.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
He's their best all.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Those Yeah, he's your best all around player. Tarrek Scouoble
is the best Tiger at what he does, Which does
that mean he's the best player on the team. To me,
that does not compute well.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So, Chef, I like to think about it does make sense,
And I like to think about this in video game terms,
because you play these video games and they have certain
ratings for everyone's ability at every given thing. Right, So
Riley Green might have the best well rounded overall score.
But Tarrek scouble is a plus at throwing strikes, He's
a plus with armed velocity and all this kind of stuff.
(06:05):
And so to your point, he's the best at what
he does. But Riley Green across the board probably has
the better score. Obviously, Sterrek School's not hitting. Yeah, he's
not hitting. He's not fielding as well, all that stuff, right,
it all comes into play.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
I don't know if wins above replacement is the great
equalizer in this conversation.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It could be Terrek Schooble's War is.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Three point nine, Riley Green's is two point seven.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I do think war is a fair stat to look at, yeah,
because that doesn't matter what your position is for war, right.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
That's right, absolutely right, So that therein lies right there,
probably the end of the argument that he can be.
I mean, if you look at War for the Pirates
Paul's I mean, I don't know if people realize that
Paul Skean's got a better war than Terrek Schouble. Paul
Skeens's War is four point one to Terrek School is
(07:10):
three point nine. We're splitting hairs here, Okay, Paul skeins
is four and seven. Terrek School just won his tenth
consecutive decision. So that's why wins oftentimes in baseball.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
For misleading, very misleading.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
We talked about it, Paul Skeens, I think it was
three or four starts ago for him. But the Pirates
lost one. Nothing great.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
We talked about the number of times his team has
he's had to deal with in his career. We talked
about this two weeks ago, in his career, how many
times he's been supported by one run or less, how
he's walked off the mound giving up just one run
and he ends up taking a loss or a no decision.
(07:58):
That to me is the amount, the percentage is. It's
super high. I forget the exact number right now, but
that's I mean, it's super high. Paul Skeins with that
war at four point one, so put it in perspective.
I'll put it in perspective for you, okay. Aaron Judge's
war is five point nine. Paul Skeenes's war is the
(08:22):
equivalent to that of Kyle Tucker, and Kyle Tucker right
now is fifth in all of baseball in wins above replacement.
The only players better Aaron Judge, Jeremy Pania, who just
got hurt, Cal Rally, who's got thirty two homers. Only
(08:46):
Ken Griffy Junior has more in Seattle history prior to
the All Star Break, and Pete Crow Armstrong. Those are
the only players with a higher war than Paul Skeens,
who are every day play years now, and if you
look at it from a pitching perspective, he has the
highest war then it's terrorist school and Max Freed. So
(09:10):
here's the only thing I would ask you, And I
think you bring up a really good point, and I
think it's legitimate if we think he's the best pitcher
in baseball. I think a lot of people feel that way.
I feel that way, if we feel like we can
use that number to prove that he's the best player
on the Tigers.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Are you with me so far?
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Yes? I know where you're going with this.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yes, Then why can he Why is he the best
pitcher in baseball when his number is not as high
as Paul.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Skins exactly exactly.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
And it's a great question, and it's a great point,
and a lot.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Of it is probably because he leads the league in
strikeouts and strikeouts per nine and so on and so forth.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
And he wins games, and a lot of that has
to do with how good your team is.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
But right or wrong, ill, my apologies, he doesn't lead
the league in strikeouts per nine. Mackenzie Gordon, All Nice,
Dylan Cees, Chris Saals, Zach Wheeler all higher strikeouts per
night doesn't make them better. I'm just saying, I'm just
trying to give you facts here, but that's what we do.
I think a lot of it, too, is the walk factor,
the strikeout to walk. He's got one hundred and thirty
(10:16):
eight strikeouts, he's got fourteen walks. He walked his fourteenth
batter of the year last night. No one's really close.
It's crazy how he is around the zone, challenging batters
and just saying, I dare you because I don't think
you can. And we can all understand that. It's just
a different way to look at it, and I think
(10:38):
it's an important way to look at it.
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