Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Boston's Bulldozer operates seven days a week. The Kuner Report
Weekend edition WRKO the Voice of Boston.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Joining me now is Professor Alan Dershowitz. He is professor
emeritus at Harvard and best selling author. Alan, it is
great to have you on the Kuoner Report. I've got
to ask you, as a professor emeritus at Harvard, how
do you feel now about President Trump freezing over two
(00:30):
billion dollars in federal funds, threatening to freeze nine billion
dollars in taxpayer funds, and maybe even now revoking Harvard's
tax exempt status? Agree? Disagree?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I would ask all the listeners to go back to
a time when I was in college in the nineteen fifties,
when colleges were forced to integrate in Alabama and Mississippi,
and masked plansmen would be preventing black students from going
to class, teachers would be teaching white supremacy in class,
(01:11):
and the Justice Department was threatening these universities. Would anybody
out there be opposed to the federal government cutting off
funding to racist Southern schools that were not protecting black
students and not protecting against the abuse of classes by teachers.
(01:33):
Now the shoes on the other foot, and the people
being protected are Jews and Christians and Zionists and conservatives.
So principally, in principle, you can't make the argument that
the federal government has no proper role to play in
preventing harassment of black students Jewish students. You can't say
(01:55):
it's different because back in the fifties it was black
students that were being protected. Today it's Jewish students that
are being protected. So you have to think of this
in context. Has the Trump administration gone too far? Of
course they shouldn't be cutting off a to research projects,
but they should be cutting off a to groups that
(02:16):
call themselves human rights groups at Harvard, at Harvard Law
School and that are completely biased. They should be cutting
off a to departments that foment anti Semitism. They should
be cutting off a to colleges that refuse to discipline
mask students who are preventing Jewish students from coming to class.
(02:39):
This is a far more nuanced issue, and many of
the same people who are leading the campaign against the
Trump administration would be joining the government if they were
fighting against racism against black people, or if they were
fighting against homophobia or if they were fighting against discrimination
(03:01):
against women. You cannot have a double standard for Jews
and for everybody else. And that's why this is a
nuanced issue. And I'm hoping that Harvard will settle this
case because some of the things the government is asking
for are absolutely correct, some of the things are absolutely wrong,
and some of the things are subject to negotiations. This
(03:23):
is not a black and white issue.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I agree with you, I completely agree with you. Let
me ask you this, Professor Dershowitz, what do you say,
just to play devil's advocate this you know, the argument
that the administration's making, that many professors and students at
Harvard are making, that Trump is a bully, that Trump
is trying to control Harvard, that he is violating the
(03:47):
free speech rights of these pro Palestinian students, of these
anti Israel in many cases anti Semitic professors, and that you,
Alan Dershowitz, are wrong. That Harvard is a private institution.
And if they want to allow Palestinians, or if they
want to allow pro hamas supporters, or if they want
(04:08):
to talk, you know, spread Jew hatred or go on
against Israel and vilify the state of Israel, that is
their First Amendment right, what say you?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
What I would argue is that none of these people
who are making that argument would be making the argument
if these were a klansmen who were wearing hoods and
were harassing black students. These are phony arguments. They are
not principled arguments. Unless you're prepared to say that a
private university can encourage black hatred gay hatred, then you
(04:43):
cannot say that a private university is entitled to encourage
Jew hatred. You have to have a single standard. That's
all I'm asking for. I know some of these professors
who are bringing these lawsuits. They are virulently anti Israel
and anti is Semitic, and they would be jumping up
and down for joy if the federal government were cutting
(05:06):
off funding for anti gay, or anti transphobic, or anti
you name it, anti female, or anti black attitude. So
you need a single standard. Until we get the single standard,
I'm not going to be on the side of these
phonies who are actually in favor of anti Israel, anti Semitic. Take,
(05:31):
for example, the case of this guy Khalil. Would any
of these people be supporting Khalil if he were a
Nazi opposed to black people, if he were calling for
the lynching of blacks, if he was circulating memos on
the campus, if he were blocking black students from going
(05:52):
to class. I refuse to participate in hypocrisy. And that's
what we're seeing on college campuses today is hypocrisy. So
I'm hoping that the university will sit down. They've already
hired two lawyers who are very close to Trump, and
I think that sends a message that they're ready to negotiate,
and I hope they will negotiate and they will admit
(06:15):
that some of the things that the federal government is
demanding are absolutely correct, and they would be on this
side of the people demanding it if the victims of
the discrimination on campus were black instead of you. So
what we're seeing is racism by some of these professors
who are insisting on academic freedom only from me, but not.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
For thee Professor Dershowitz, I think maybe the final question
I have for you is this, if you were not
professor emeritus today, but you were a professor as you
were twenty what is it, twenty thirty years ago, teaching
on campus years eleven years ago, would you feel threatened?
(06:57):
Would you feel intimidated. If you had to teach today.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I can tell you the facts. I was one of
the most popular lecturers and teachers until eleven years ago.
I have never once been asked back to speak about Israel.
Since October seventh. I have offered to come to Harvard.
I have offered to debate. They do not want to
hear my pro Israel point of view, even though it's
a moderate two state solution pro Israel point of view.
(07:25):
The students at Harvard are being denied my point of
view and the point of view of millions of others
who are different from the radical left anti Israel perspective
that we see among so many professors at Harvard. So yeah,
I wouldn't feel intimidated because I'd stand up and fight
for my rights. That's who I am. But right now,
(07:48):
somebody with my views are canceled at Harvard. We can't
speak at Harvard. And that's a real problem. And that's today.
That's not you know eleven years ago, that's today. I
have offered over and over again to come to Harvard
and to debate anti Israel speakers. They will not accept it.
The one time that a student group asked me to
(08:08):
come to Harvard. They had to move my speech off
campus for fear of my life that if I made
a pro Israel statement on the Harvard campus, I would
be in danger of being beaten up. That's Harvard today,
and unless it improves, things are going to go and
get worse. And they're worse at Berkeley, and they're worse
(08:29):
in other places in the United States. And so Harvard
has proved that it is not capable of governing itself.
And so just like the University of Mississippi was not
capable of governing itself in the nineteen fifties, and so
federal intervention under various titles of the Civil Rights Law
(08:50):
are appropriate. They shouldn't overdo it. No research should be
cut back that deals with science and cancer and everything else.
But when you get a human rights group at Harvard
Law School that only focuses on Israel and doesn't focus
on much more serious human rights. When you get a
professor at Yale who calls on a student and the
(09:12):
student speaks, he says, are you speaking with an Israeli accent?
And the student says yes, And the professor says, you
cannot speak unless you're willing to admit you're a war criminal.
Should we the taxpayer be funding that department, the Middle
East Studies department at Yale? Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Absolutely, No, I know you're dead on, you're dead on.
Look if I can squeeze one more.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Question out of you at Harvard Law School.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, Professor Dershowitz, We've got about a minute left, but
I've got to ask you, in your view, what accounts
for this explosion of jewe hatred and anti semitism Harvard, Yale,
all of these elite institutions. What do you think is
the root cause?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Number one, it's DEI Diversity Inclusion and Equity and Inclusion,
which is a hotbed of anti Semitism. Number two, it's
these ethnic departments, Middle East Studies, even Jewish studies, Gay studies,
Women's studies. These are not true academic enterprises. These are political, partisan,
(10:14):
ideological propaganda mils. And on October eighth, when thirty two
groups at Harvard blamed what happened on October seventh on Israel,
much of it came from these departments, these bureaucracies. And
until and unless these bureaucracies are rooted out, and we're
going to see left wing professors, hard left anti American
(10:39):
anti Christian groups dominate at schools like Harvard, and that's
the problem is much deeper than just a few people
blocking access to campuses. We're seeing a culture of hatred
against Western democracy, against the United States, against Israel, and
(11:01):
against Jews and against Christians, and that has to be
rooted out. And of course, the Trump administration, as most administrations,
went too far, and that's why we need a negotiated
settlement where some of the demands have to be met
as a condition of federal funding.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
We have been talking with Professor Alan Dershowitz, Professor Emeritus
at Harvard University. Professor is always dynamite stuff and you're
always welcome back on the Kuoner Report. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Thanks, I'm always happy to be on. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
You're locked into Boston's Bulldozer. The Kuner Report Weekend edition,
The Voice of Boston WRKL
Boston's Bulldozer operates seven days a week. The Kuner Report
Weekend edition WRKO the Voice of Boston.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Joining me now is Professor Alan Dershowitz. He is professor
emeritus at Harvard and best selling author. Alan, it is
great to have you on the Kuoner Report. I've got
to ask you, as a professor emeritus at Harvard, how
do you feel now about President Trump freezing over two
(00:30):
billion dollars in federal funds, threatening to freeze nine billion
dollars in taxpayer funds, and maybe even now revoking Harvard's
tax exempt status? Agree? Disagree?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I would ask all the listeners to go back to
a time when I was in college in the nineteen fifties,
when colleges were forced to integrate in Alabama and Mississippi,
and masked plansmen would be preventing black students from going
to class, teachers would be teaching white supremacy in class,
(01:11):
and the Justice Department was threatening these universities. Would anybody
out there be opposed to the federal government cutting off
funding to racist Southern schools that were not protecting black
students and not protecting against the abuse of classes by teachers.
(01:33):
Now the shoes on the other foot, and the people
being protected are Jews and Christians and Zionists and conservatives.
So principally, in principle, you can't make the argument that
the federal government has no proper role to play in
preventing harassment of black students Jewish students. You can't say
(01:55):
it's different because back in the fifties it was black
students that were being protected. Today it's Jewish students that
are being protected. So you have to think of this
in context. Has the Trump administration gone too far? Of
course they shouldn't be cutting off a to research projects,
but they should be cutting off a to groups that
(02:16):
call themselves human rights groups at Harvard, at Harvard Law
School and that are completely biased. They should be cutting
off a to departments that foment anti Semitism. They should
be cutting off a to colleges that refuse to discipline
mask students who are preventing Jewish students from coming to class.
(02:39):
This is a far more nuanced issue, and many of
the same people who are leading the campaign against the
Trump administration would be joining the government if they were
fighting against racism against black people, or if they were
fighting against homophobia or if they were fighting against discrimination
(03:01):
against women. You cannot have a double standard for Jews
and for everybody else. And that's why this is a
nuanced issue. And I'm hoping that Harvard will settle this
case because some of the things the government is asking
for are absolutely correct, some of the things are absolutely wrong,
and some of the things are subject to negotiations. This
(03:23):
is not a black and white issue.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
I agree with you, I completely agree with you. Let
me ask you this, Professor Dershowitz, what do you say,
just to play devil's advocate this you know, the argument
that the administration's making, that many professors and students at
Harvard are making, that Trump is a bully, that Trump
is trying to control Harvard, that he is violating the
(03:47):
free speech rights of these pro Palestinian students, of these
anti Israel in many cases anti Semitic professors, and that you,
Alan Dershowitz, are wrong. That Harvard is a private institution.
And if they want to allow Palestinians, or if they
want to allow pro hamas supporters, or if they want
(04:08):
to talk, you know, spread Jew hatred or go on
against Israel and vilify the state of Israel, that is
their First Amendment right, what say you?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
What I would argue is that none of these people
who are making that argument would be making the argument
if these were a klansmen who were wearing hoods and
were harassing black students. These are phony arguments. They are
not principled arguments. Unless you're prepared to say that a
private university can encourage black hatred gay hatred, then you
(04:43):
cannot say that a private university is entitled to encourage
Jew hatred. You have to have a single standard. That's
all I'm asking for. I know some of these professors
who are bringing these lawsuits. They are virulently anti Israel
and anti is Semitic, and they would be jumping up
and down for joy if the federal government were cutting
(05:06):
off funding for anti gay, or anti transphobic, or anti
you name it, anti female, or anti black attitude. So
you need a single standard. Until we get the single standard,
I'm not going to be on the side of these
phonies who are actually in favor of anti Israel, anti Semitic. Take,
(05:31):
for example, the case of this guy Khalil. Would any
of these people be supporting Khalil if he were a
Nazi opposed to black people, if he were calling for
the lynching of blacks, if he was circulating memos on
the campus, if he were blocking black students from going
(05:52):
to class. I refuse to participate in hypocrisy. And that's
what we're seeing on college campuses today is hypocrisy. So
I'm hoping that the university will sit down. They've already
hired two lawyers who are very close to Trump, and
I think that sends a message that they're ready to negotiate,
and I hope they will negotiate and they will admit
(06:15):
that some of the things that the federal government is
demanding are absolutely correct, and they would be on this
side of the people demanding it if the victims of
the discrimination on campus were black instead of you. So
what we're seeing is racism by some of these professors
who are insisting on academic freedom only from me, but not.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
For thee Professor Dershowitz, I think maybe the final question
I have for you is this, if you were not
professor emeritus today, but you were a professor as you
were twenty what is it, twenty thirty years ago, teaching
on campus years eleven years ago, would you feel threatened?
(06:57):
Would you feel intimidated. If you had to teach today.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I can tell you the facts. I was one of
the most popular lecturers and teachers until eleven years ago.
I have never once been asked back to speak about Israel.
Since October seventh. I have offered to come to Harvard.
I have offered to debate. They do not want to
hear my pro Israel point of view, even though it's
a moderate two state solution pro Israel point of view.
(07:25):
The students at Harvard are being denied my point of
view and the point of view of millions of others
who are different from the radical left anti Israel perspective
that we see among so many professors at Harvard. So yeah,
I wouldn't feel intimidated because I'd stand up and fight
for my rights. That's who I am. But right now,
(07:48):
somebody with my views are canceled at Harvard. We can't
speak at Harvard. And that's a real problem. And that's today.
That's not you know eleven years ago, that's today. I
have offered over and over again to come to Harvard
and to debate anti Israel speakers. They will not accept it.
The one time that a student group asked me to
(08:08):
come to Harvard. They had to move my speech off
campus for fear of my life that if I made
a pro Israel statement on the Harvard campus, I would
be in danger of being beaten up. That's Harvard today,
and unless it improves, things are going to go and
get worse. And they're worse at Berkeley, and they're worse
(08:29):
in other places in the United States. And so Harvard
has proved that it is not capable of governing itself.
And so just like the University of Mississippi was not
capable of governing itself in the nineteen fifties, and so
federal intervention under various titles of the Civil Rights Law
(08:50):
are appropriate. They shouldn't overdo it. No research should be
cut back that deals with science and cancer and everything else.
But when you get a human rights group at Harvard
Law School that only focuses on Israel and doesn't focus
on much more serious human rights. When you get a
professor at Yale who calls on a student and the
(09:12):
student speaks, he says, are you speaking with an Israeli accent?
And the student says yes, And the professor says, you
cannot speak unless you're willing to admit you're a war criminal.
Should we the taxpayer be funding that department, the Middle
East Studies department at Yale? Oh?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Absolutely, No, I know you're dead on, you're dead on.
Look if I can squeeze one more.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Question out of you at Harvard Law School.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, Professor Dershowitz, We've got about a minute left, but
I've got to ask you, in your view, what accounts
for this explosion of jewe hatred and anti semitism Harvard, Yale,
all of these elite institutions. What do you think is
the root cause?
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Number one, it's DEI Diversity Inclusion and Equity and Inclusion,
which is a hotbed of anti Semitism. Number two, it's
these ethnic departments, Middle East Studies, even Jewish studies, Gay studies,
Women's studies. These are not true academic enterprises. These are political, partisan,
(10:14):
ideological propaganda mils. And on October eighth, when thirty two
groups at Harvard blamed what happened on October seventh on Israel,
much of it came from these departments, these bureaucracies. And
until and unless these bureaucracies are rooted out, and we're
going to see left wing professors, hard left anti American
(10:39):
anti Christian groups dominate at schools like Harvard, and that's
the problem is much deeper than just a few people
blocking access to campuses. We're seeing a culture of hatred
against Western democracy, against the United States, against Israel, and
(11:01):
against Jews and against Christians, and that has to be
rooted out. And of course, the Trump administration, as most administrations,
went too far, and that's why we need a negotiated
settlement where some of the demands have to be met
as a condition of federal funding.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
We have been talking with Professor Alan Dershowitz, Professor Emeritus
at Harvard University. Professor is always dynamite stuff and you're
always welcome back on the Kuoner Report. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Thanks, I'm always happy to be on. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Take care.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
You're locked into Boston's Bulldozer. The Kuner Report Weekend edition,
The Voice of Boston WRKL
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