Kelly Wearstler ON: Why Changing Your Environment Will Change Your Mood and How to Access Curiosity to Pursue Your Passion

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Your home reflects who you are. You know, what are
you collecting, and it's just like how you dress. It's
such an important part of who we are. This is
Kelly Whistler.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
She's the famed interior designer of private residences and boutique hotels.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
We were doing three hotels at one time, and I
was burning the midnight oil and then you lose a
team because they're burnt out. Saying no is just as
important to saying yes.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I think that's great life advice and design advice. Before
we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you
to join this community to hear more interviews that will
help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All I
want you to do is click on the subscribe button.
I love your support. It's incredible to see all your
comments and we're just getting started. I can't wait to

(00:47):
go on this journey with you. Thank you so much
for subscribing. It means the world to me.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
The best selling authoring the host the.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Number one healthy wellness.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Podcast on Purpose with Jay Shetty.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Today's guest is a dear friend and an incredibly powerful,
multifaceted and renowned creator of experiential, residential, hospitality, commercial and
retail environments, expansive collections of lifestyle product and thought provoking
brand collaborations. Kelly Weisler has received awards from numerous publications

(01:21):
and organizations, including Architectural Digests, eighty one hundred, Hall of Fame,
Elder Cores, The A List, Titans, Wallpaper Magazines, Top twenty Designers,
and Time Magazines, The Design one hundred, and Vogue's Best
Dressed List. Kelly has just launched a new book with
Rissolue titled Synchronicity. Synchronicity features her most recent work for

(01:43):
Proper hotels as well as several private homes. Please welcome
to the show, Kelly Wistler. Kelly, I'm really happy to
be with you because I've had so many special offline
interactions with you, and I've always loved them because you
always have this really bright, really light energy about you,
and you know, we'll bump into each other in one

(02:04):
of the beautiful hotel projects you've worked on, or we
bumped into each other at mutual friends homes, or you've
been here too, and I've just always appreciated just how
thoughtful that you are, how reflective you and I've been
really looking forward to this, so thank you so much
for doing it.

Speaker 3 (02:20):
Honestly, Oh thank you, Jay.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Well, I'm so honored to be here and be one
of your guests and sitting here with you super excited.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Okay, well, let's dive in. The question I want to
start with you is can design make you happy?

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Yes? Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (02:35):
And you know, one of the most beautiful parts of
my jobs is making people happy, which is like I mean,
you can't. I can't believe I get paid for what
I do because it's making people happy and inspiring people.
And you know, there's nothing better than designing a hotel
and going in time and time again and seeing people

(02:57):
laughing and having fun and listening to music and seeing
them time and time again, you know, whether they're there
as a leaser traveler or business traveler, and knowing that's
their place, that's a local venue for them, just makes
me feel so good.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah. I've been to two of your projects, the one
in Austin the proper hotel there, and the one downtown
in LA and they are just spectacular and you're so right.
Like I remember when I walked in last year, we
were going to watch f one and so come into
the Austin and I bumped into you and you were
listening to the podcast you showed it, Yeah, which is amazing.
I loved it. And then I just looked at this

(03:33):
one place behind the steps and you have all these
most beautiful collected like pots and vases and like they're
just they're so simply and beautifully kept on this like
this kind of step. I've known you.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Have such a good memory.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, I have a picture of on my phone, Like
it's it's stunning, and it's so interesting to me because
I think I underestimate growing up just how much spaces
and esthetics affect on mind. And today is someone who
wants to live an intentional, mindful life. I find that
design and interiors and aesthetics play such a big part

(04:09):
in the mood we experience and how we feel throughout
the day. What do you think it is about design
that does make people happy or sad or drain energy
or bring energy or like you just said, you walk
into space and people are connecting versus isolated, Like what
is it about design that's doing What have you learned
about design?

Speaker 1 (04:28):
People want to see and experience something they haven't seen before,
and that's what you know, I love doing at for example,
a hotel project, and they also want to feel a location.
And you know when you travel to say Austin, Texas
and you remember those beautiful the pottery on the stabs,
I mean all those were designed by local artisans. So

(04:50):
really bringing like this local experience and this authentic experience
to you know, wherever we design, and you know, all
of our projects are you know, very site specific, and
you know, getting very close to our client and really
understanding and listening to what the client you know, intentions are.

(05:12):
There are going to be no surprises, and they're going
to love to be in their environment and it's going
to in turn make them happy.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
And inspire them.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
And we all want to live a better life, and
we all want to look better in our clothing. And
it's the same thing at home, you know, we want
to surround ourselves with things that are familiar and make
us happy.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah. I've got a lot of friends in my life
right now who are trying to redecorate or redesign their homes,
which can be such a challenging thing to do. You
obviously worked on some private homes, obviously work on hotels
and so many other spaces. But if someone's listening right
now and they're thinking Kelly, like, you know, the book
looks stunning, Like they've seen your pictures on Instagram. They're like, Wow,

(05:51):
that living room looks spectacular. But they're thinking, you know what,
maybe I don't have access to a designer. Maybe I
don't have access to Kelly like, but I do now
through the podcast, how do I find my creative spirit?

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Like?

Speaker 2 (06:03):
How do I find that spot to start that process
in my own home?

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well, you know, there's something that everyone gravitates towards. And
I really encourage everyone to go out to museums and
go to a flea market and go to vintage stores.
And I always say vintage stores because I think it's
important for people to see history and see things that
are soulful and that have had like this life. You know,

(06:30):
there's like you know, I love like you know, how
I design is like there's always an old soul and
a new spirit.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
You know.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
I love a merging artist and I love contemporary artists,
and that is you know, parent and everything I do.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
I dress that way as well.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
So really looking at you know, what is something you
like to collect? Are you you know, interested in art
and maybe starting there. You know, do you like color,
Maybe you want to have color in your home, and
you know, maybe that's a good.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Place to start.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And baby steps and pace is so important because when
somebody gets their apartment and I've been there, it's like,
I'm so excited.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
I want to get in there and make it amazing
and enjoy it right away.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
But you really should take your time, like it's really
important because you're going to really value all the pieces
and they'll spark a memory, you know. So maybe you
went to a flea market with a friend and you're
going to remember that day. Or you traveled with your
boyfriend or husband and you found this really cool chair together,

(07:35):
or went to a gallery.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
So baby stepping and being very thoughtful about what you
start to curate.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
I really love what you said about history and vintage,
and I think it's so true. I'll give an example
of something that happened to me recently. So I remember
a quote from Robin Sharma which I read when I
was very young. He wrote a book called The Monk
who Sold His Ferrari. Their quote the quote read, so
it's a fiction story, and it's really funny. I read

(08:03):
it so young but ordinary people have big TVs. Extraordinary
people have big libraries, and that always inspired me. And
today I'm fortunate enough to have a beautiful bookshelf in
our main living room, which is like, you know, there's
a lot of books I can fill in that shelf.
And so what I've been doing is traveling and curating
books for that by myself, because I really enjoy reading,

(08:24):
but I also enjoyed design. I can't wait for this
to be right there. While I was doing that, I
was inside a store. We have a local Buck Mason
store here in LA and I was inside there. They
do a great curation and their curator always finds books
from all over and so I was in there checking
out their books and they said, Jay, you know what,
if you really want books, you should go to this
random vintage store down the road. And I'd never seen

(08:46):
this store, so I start walking around. I walk past
this store and it looks closed, and it looks really small,
and it looks really old, and I don't see anyone
in there, but I start knocking in just to make
sure this lady comes out and to your the door
and I say, hey, I heard you have vintage books here.
I'd love to see them, and she goes, oh, yeah,
she binds books. You could see all these like old

(09:09):
binding materials for like these, you know, massive book covers
and all of the old machinery and tools and processes
you would need. And she said, well, I don't really
sell books, but we have all these books here. And
she said, I'll tell you. You know, she told me a story.
She was like, when I got divorced from my husband,
who used to own loads of bookstores, I got half
the books. So she goes, I just have thousands and
thousands of books. Some of them are here most of

(09:29):
my home. I said, well, I'd love to look through them.
So I started looking through these books and I was
discovering like early editions of really special books, and I was,
you know, starting to make a list, and I got
a whole pile out, and she she was really like
she didn't care. She was like, you can take them
for free. And I was like, no, no, no, I'd love
to pay for them, like you know, this is such
a gift. And so I paid them whatever she asked

(09:52):
me to play for them. And then there was one
book and she said, I've been looking for this book
for years and she goes. I couldn't find it because
it was like all these crease pages and hidden away.
And she said, do you mind if I don't sell
this to you, can I keep it? And I said,
of course. I was like, it's your book if you
can get it. Was I really wanted it. It was cool.
I'd never read it, but it's a little book that
was called like the Hidden Temple, and I was like, oh,

(10:14):
that sounds so cool, like especially with my background. But anyway,
she kept that one.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I know, I know that that shop, you know, because
she does bookbinding and there's very few companies that do
that still, and you know the like I love going
to a bookstore and just getting lost in the aisles
and just randomly just pulling books out of something that
I know nothing about. And there's the Strand Bookstore in

(10:40):
New York. Love that and it's amazing bookstore. And there's
so few now, there's a few downtown that are so good.
But I agree like going and just digging around and
exploring and discovery and and really it's all about having
an open heart and being open to all the possibilities
and you know, enlightening yourself.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
I think one of the challenges that makes it hard
to do. What we're both agreeing on is that we're
so used to now seeing the same thing. Like if
you're on Instagram and you're following these channels, everyone's posting
the same kind of interiors, the same kind of rug
with the same kind of table, which there's nothing wrong
with that. That's how things get mainstream and bigger and scaled.
How do you challenge yourself to stay curious and try

(11:26):
and discover new things? Like? How what do you do?
What are the practical steps that you take to be
open minded?

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I guess I'm constantly, you know, in search of something
new that I'm gonna fall in love with. And I
know if I go to a gallery and I'm so
moved and I might see three new materials come together
in this unbelievable creation and something I've never seen before,

(11:53):
and my heart stops.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
It's like seeing you know, that cute guy.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
And just like, oh my God, like like you're just
so moved and it's so inspirational to me. And it's
that feeling of falling in love and you want to
keep falling in love and continue to discover and there,
you know, there's so many new technologies and you know,
I'm inspired.

Speaker 3 (12:16):
By pulp culture and.

Speaker 1 (12:20):
AI, which is like such a huge disruptor in the
you know world of everything.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
It's like a major earthquake happening right now.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
Also, all of our clients are also different, and they come,
you know, they're from all over the world, and all
the architectures different, and the landscape, the view from the
windows different, so everything truly is one of a kind.
So I'm just always searching, Like you know, I have
my bar is like super high, and I just want
to keep doing better and striving, you know, to be

(12:51):
a better designer.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
And I kind of live that way.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
I want to you know, be you know the best
mom I can be, the best you know wife I
can be, and and you know leader at my studio
for my team, you know, just being inspired and sharing,
you know, my love and you know, continuing to make
people happy.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
If there's people watching and listening right now and they're like, Kelly,
I just have bad taste, like they're like, you know,
I just I just don't, you know, I can't. I
don't know what matches like I tribe, but it doesn't
look right like if the people feel like that, like
have you I'm sure, you've worked with places, people, homes,
hotels where you kind of see that creative slump. What

(13:34):
is it that you say to someone who's struggling because
I just have bad taste. I can't think about this, Like,
how would you encourage them to think about that?

Speaker 3 (13:40):
Well, nobody should.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
Back with all of the visuals in our world, with
magazines and social media and everything, like, there's so much
inspiration out there. So it's really just having an open
heart and being aware and finding your passion and what
you love and what moves you, like what excites me

(14:03):
seeing something that I haven't seen before, and you can't
find that unless you go out and seek it out,
Like even you might find somebody it's like, oh my god,
I love the way they dress, or I went to
this home and it was so incredible and inspirational.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
And it happens to me all the time. I'll go
to a.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Party and it's like how they set the bar and
it's like wow, Like I haven't seen that, and that's
really cool, and I'm going to put it in my
bag of tricks for the next time I have, you know,
and I'm inspired and I love it. I take photos
of everything that's like my journal, Like I take photos
of everything, and every month I always.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
Go back and look at you know, what has.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Inspired me, and you know, I share it. I like
to share it with you know, my team and in
social media and just see you know how my I
wanders and what excites me.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, I think you're spot on. When I was on
my tour this year, I took so many pictures around
the world of stores, arts, fabriaks, textures, details, like there
were so many things that I was like, wow, I
would never have thought about that together.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Or and there's a pattern, Like that's why you'll discover
like your style, Like would you Jay, if I say
what is your style?

Speaker 3 (15:13):
What would you say?

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Oh, the way I dress or the way I like.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Myself does inherently because they go like how somebody dresses
and before you answer that question, like I always I
have clients who'll say, you know what, like I really
I'm not sure exactly what I like. And I'm like, listen,
we're going to go in your closet and we're going
to see, like what you gravitate towards.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
Is it all neutral? Like do you like pattern? Do
like little bits of color? Is it modern? Is it
more minimalist and like the answer is there.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, absolutely. I'd say that my overall style is I
try and wear something that's a more or not where
I try everything to have more of an untraditional silhouette
or something that's hopefully a bit thoughtful. I like my
spaces to be very calm and very approachable, and I

(16:04):
think about everything like a sanctuary, So I think about
the energy that it has even more than the item.
And I think when I'm especially putting my spaces together,
I'm like, Okay, well, what how do I want to
feel when I walk into this room? And you know,
even when we had a tiny apartment back in New York,
which we lived in like the six hundred square four apartment,
every corner of our apartment was thought about in that way,

(16:28):
like what can we put in this corner to make
it feel special? Or like how do we differentiate between
the bedroom and the bathroom when it's like in the
same space, right, Like what do you do whether it's
a scent, whether it's something you see. I even think
about like what's the first thing I see in the
morning and what's the last thing I see at night?
All of these kind of things to me are really important,

(16:49):
And like you said, it could be an art piece,
it could be pottery, it could be a picture of
your family. Like I think it can be anything and everything.
But I think we don't often use visual hues and esthetics.
We think of it so esthetically that we forget how
emotional it is, if that makes sense. We think of
it as like, Oh, that's just about looking cool and

(17:10):
being cool. It's not about feeling a certain way. But
to me, like even when I walked in today and
I saw the cover of your book and I was like, oh, wow,
that looks beautiful, like I wanted to feel it, and
I wanted to I was drawn towards it. I was like,
wait a minute, what's the texture like? And I think
when we were kids, that's how we approach things. When
you're a kid, you see something cool and you want
to touch it, you want to press the button, you

(17:30):
want to And I think as adults, I think we
sometimes lose that. Do you, ever, how do you feel
about Do you think that as children we are naturally
that way and that you are connected to your childlike
feeling or is that is that something else?

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Well, I'm like the most curious person and that drives
my passion, and you know, I'm just I want to
know how something's made.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
I want to know, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
And I love going to artist studios and seeing how
how they operate. I love going into a creatives home
and just see how how they organize. Curiosity is such
a big driver. And I just love the imagination, you know.
And it started when I was like really little I
had When I was about seven years old. We would

(18:17):
go visit my grandparents and our you know, cousins and everyone,
and I would make these little designs, like I would
take like an a carton and do something interesting, you
know with it. I would make little cards for the
family to buy, and you know, blank cards or a
drawing on it.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
And then I would.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Pack everything up and I would take it and put
it on my grandparents' table and put little price tags.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
I was in business.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
I wanted to make money because my mom was always
taking my sister and I to the flea market. And
that's where I really started educating my eye. Going to
the flea market and not having any money.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
It's not fun.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
So I'm like, I'm just going to like start making
money myself, you know. And it was a great fun
thing to go. And now I can go to you know,
these vintage stores and flea markets that my mom would
go to all the time and be able to shop.
So just in going to these and being very curious
and just seeing and also I was educating my eye

(19:14):
from you know, a young age.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, No, And I think that that's It's fascinating how
much you pick up from those moments and those times
about what you gravitate towards. And I always wonder whether we've, yeah,
whether we block that as we get older and we
start to follow a more status quo or start to
follow a more rhythmic routine like approach to our spaces

(19:37):
as opposed to like that childlike, as you said, curiosity,
but also that I don't know, that kind of contagious
feeling you get. I guess how do you know when
how do you know, as Kelly, when you're saying, Okay,
I need to be patient. You were just saying that
when someone moves to an apartment or to a home,
they should take their time. How do you know when

(19:58):
you should take your patients with an item or when
you're like, no, I need to buy it now. And
it's almost like taking your example of the cute guy.
How do you know when this is the one to
be with or whether you feel like you're.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Settling, Like that's such a good question.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Like it's intuitive, I think, you know, and the more
that you see and the more that you know what's
out there, like you're you're you know what the anomalies
are and what's really special. But it is, it's an
intuitive feeling. And working with clients and you know, these
projects that we work on can take two years, you know,

(20:34):
five years, and so really taking our time to find
things that are meaningful and that the clients trulier are
going to you know, they're going to live with these
pieces and and it makes them feel good. Also, when
you when you're working and buying things to your house,
you should have like a hierarchy. Everything can't be super expensive.
So that's where if you want to buy something new

(20:56):
and you want to you know, have a really amazing
comfortable sofa versus you know, piece of art is knowing
where to spend the money like a sofa you're going
to have, you know, probably for a shorter time. Where
you have a piece of art and you invest in it,
it brings a memory and it's so personal that you
can take it with you in your next uh, your
next home.

Speaker 2 (21:16):
So you just incurage everyone to spend more money on
the the comfies uh that you said every day?

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, you can know because it's just it's like, you know,
it's furniture, and it's so it's so true what you
said about how just with social media and everything is
there's so much sameness out there, and so you know,
your your home reflects you know, who you are.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Your home, you know, reflects who you are. You know,
what what are you collecting?

Speaker 1 (21:43):
And and you know, it's just like how you dress,
and it's such an important part.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
Of who we are.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
And don't you look like when you do zoom meetings?
Are you checking out what's behind them?

Speaker 3 (21:57):
I know? And it says a lot about about the person.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yes, and I'm looking at all these amazing things behind
you and like as all of this are these all
personal choices?

Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes, So what we tried to do. So my biggest
goal for this space, obviously this space is just so
everyone who's listening and watching you know that we're in
my podcast studio and this room is only used to
record the podcast. And so our goal was I wanted
it to feel intimate because a lot of production sets
have like thirty people on them, and I find conversations

(22:29):
like this to be much more intimate and close, and
like this is how I would sit with a friend,
So that was a key need. The second thing was
I didn't want it to be packed with too many
other people, because I think that removes the intimacy. The
choice of art was all to evoke emotion, So I
chose that piece there with the heart because to me,

(22:49):
I want to only have heart based conversations here. That's
what on Purpose is all about. Where we reveal our
hearts to each other, me included, and even our audience
and community is opening up their heart to the ideas
and topics. I genuinely put eyes there through that art
through because I think eye contact is such a beautiful
way of being present and being still and being focused

(23:11):
with someone. And again, these are I'm giving these subliminal
not messaging, but the deeper meaning behind why these things there.
This is an African shield and we had that there
because I wanted people to reminded to put their guard down.
It's almost like hanging your shield up, the thing that
blocks you. And then there were, and they're all pieces
by people of color. So all the art in here

(23:32):
were by people of color. And this was to remind
of the highest good, which is of serving and offering,
and which is such a big part of the philosophy
that I followed.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
And you know, one question that I had is, because
you obviously were working in finance and in London and
you went you became a monk, how has like material
things and design and fashion you look amazing and superstylish,

(24:01):
and like, how has that changed for you?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
It's such a good question. I'm so glad you asked
me that, honestly, because I think that I was always
interested in fashion and design before I became a monk.
So I was always intrigued by graphic design. I loved
college art and design was one of my favorite subjects
at school, and I did really well at it. And
I've talked about my art teacher often, who I credit

(24:28):
so much with my intentional thinking. So let's say we're
doing a college and we're doing mixed design. I would
put something together and I think it would look amazing,
and my friends would think it would look great, and
my teacher would look at it and say, why did
you do that, and if I didn't have a good
enough answer, I didn't get a good grade. And so
he was training me to always ask why. He was like,
why would you put those two things together? What's your reason?

(24:50):
And I started to realize that the intention was so important,
the intuitive design of putting things together. It wasn't just
about the form, it was about the substance. So I
would I loved that from before I became a monk.
I even wanted to. I had the dream of becoming
a graphic design or art director when I grew up
and put magazines together. That was always kind of what
I enjoyed. And obviously I left that all when I

(25:11):
became a monk and moved away from it. And the
monastery was always very minimalist, right, there was no It's
not that there was no design, and I think that's
always important to remember, Like if you've ever seen an altar,
an altar is highly designed, whether it's deities of God,
whether it's forms of sages or gurus. If you ever

(25:31):
walk into a temple.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Atmosphere, it's very decorative, very decorative.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
And some of the temples that I visited in India
had like the most ornate carvings around them telling stories
and histories and pastimes of incredible epics, and you'd see
you'd see that the design that was above the place
where you stand when you're in front of the altar
had specific markings on the ceiling. Like there's so much
intentionality even about a temple and how they were designed.

(25:59):
And so I think I appreciated all those things. Although
in the temple it was very minimalist. It wasn't you know,
it wasn't I guess material in that sense. But I
think for me now, I've just allowed all my passions
to infuse. And I really do believe that designing your home,
designing what you wear or choosing and selecting it carefully

(26:24):
allows you to feel different. And so to me, design
a mindfulness or fashion and mindfulness or how you dress
is probably a better word than even fashion. But how
you dress and mindfulness and how you design your home
and mindfulness are completely synchronized, and they can't be separated.
Because I feel different when I wear something different, I

(26:45):
can express myself differently when I dress differently. I can
sit with you and we can create an atmosphere, hopefully
in this room for you and our guests that allows
you to be comfortable and open, and that allows you
to feel safe and so hopefully the answers you're question.
I don't know if it does, but no, it does.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
It's great, and it is a lifestyle. It's like how
you dress.

Speaker 1 (27:06):
And how you uh, how you design your home, and two,
how you operate your your lifestyle, whether it's wellness to
what you eat, you know, the whole thing goes hand
in hand.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
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the code on Purpose. I think one thing about your work, though, Kelly,

(28:51):
that I like, and it kind of reflects on the
question you asked me, is you know one of the
things I often struggle with is because I lived as
a monk and now don't and I'm married, of course,
and we have businesses and companies and everything else. I've
given myself permission to be all of the complexities of
who I am. And I love meditating, but I also
love media. I also love sharing messages. I also love

(29:13):
management and strategy, and I've just allowed all of myself
to coexist. And I feel that allowing myself to do
that has allowed me to be happier with who I am.
And when I look at your work, and I'll let
you comment on that in a second on me, but
when I look at your work, I see that same
juxtaposition of things that people would often say, well, that

(29:33):
doesn't work or that wouldn't make sense, And if you
walked it through theoretically, most people would argue, I think
with your designs that they wouldn't make sense because I
think you put things together that seem so alien and
challenging and random that people would say, yeah, that doesn't
make any sense. Now you've found a way to make
it cohesive and make it work. I wonder are you

(29:56):
trying to do you agree with that first of all?
And and how have you allowed yourself to permission to
put things together that people would find unexpected?

Speaker 1 (30:06):
You know that that's such a good question. And when
I was starting out, there was a very specific style.
It was like the slip covered furniture and everything was neutral.
And I came to Los Angeles and I, you know,
so grateful for this.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
First job that I got for a couple that.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Lived in Venice Beach and they needed help with like
one dining room and I was going to actually work
with a design studio and this job just fell into
my lap. And so it was on the canals in Venice.
It's really cool bungalow and designed. They were like, listen,
all we do we only have money for one room,
so let's do this. I did it, and there was color,

(30:47):
and there was like vintage things and there was some
contemporary artist pieces and the room like looked, you know, incredible.
They didn't quite understand it, and they were like, well,
it doesn't feel like maybe what I'm seeing, and so
you know, I had to really like talk them through it.
And this is you know, before you know, now you're

(31:07):
doing like renderings for you know, your clients. To really understand,
you know, there was a lot of communication.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
You know.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
I took them to the flea market with me, you know,
and we really made these decisions together. They were a
little apprehensive, but it turned out great. I ended up
doing the whole entire house and then somebody saw that
and so yeah, it was it was a little scary
and still now there are clients that are maybe we'll
do a presentation. They'll say, you know, I like part

(31:35):
of it, but maybe this part I don't like. And
if I truly believe, I'll take the time and kind
of show them the way in my thought process and
maybe give them, you know, a few more visuals. So
the team and I will work on that, you know,
but if it doesn't, if they're not one hundred percent
dialed in and excited, then we'll come up with another option.

(31:56):
And you know, we're all about you know, making you know,
our projects amazing and unique, but we also you know,
want to make sure our clients are like so happy
and love the space. So it can be challenging for sure.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
How did you get that confidence, especially early on, right
so you asked to do a dining room? I can't
believe that you is, you know, like, it's beautiful to
hear that that today when you're designing multiple hotels and
that it started with just designing a dining room. And
I think that's so inspiring for so many people listening
and watching who either want to follow in your career
path or do something creative that they can think, wow,

(32:28):
that that's where it can start. How did you have
the confidence at that point to walk them through it
and say, hey, even if you don't get it, this
makes sense. What gave it to you at that point
or did you feel at that point did you feel
a bit nervous when they said, hey, we're not you know,
we don't get it, or did you always have that
confidence about your work.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
No, I was nervous, okay, one hundred percent. Like I
was like, oh my god, am I making the right decision?
Like I felt like in my heart it was the
right decision. So I really wanted to not convince them
but haven't understand like we're I was coming from. And
they they had faith in me, and we went for
it and it looked amazing, and you know, we still

(33:09):
have those clients. But yeah, it was a nervous, nerve
wracking experience. And we still now will do a presentation
like the team and I will work on something for
weeks and it's like a really big concept presentation, and
there will still sometimes be like this just doesn't feel
right because our audience maybe whether it's for a hotel

(33:32):
and it's a group of people, they might not they
might not have seen it before.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
And I strive for that.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
I want to do something that is unique and site specific,
and so they might not see before, so they get
a little a little timid. So again it's being, you know,
really communicating and letting the client know what what you
know is in our minds.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
I tell us about some of the communication skills that
takes because I think think when people think of creative careers,
we think of them as purely artistic, but actually you're
dealing with someone's intimate homes or a hotel space, which
again is people are coming there to rest or relax
or connect or take a break. So they're very important

(34:18):
spaces for us, and therefore people are quite opinionated about them.
What have you learned about communicating more effectively with people,
especially when things are so personal, because I think that's
a unique skill set that people wouldn't understand that you've had.
You'd have to have, but you obviously have to because
you're talking to people about things that they have very

(34:38):
clear thoughts about and specific choices for.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
Dealing with confidence, like presenting it like you have to
believe it, and having confidence is everything.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
The visuals are so.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Important, and so I like to communicate with the visuals.
Because I can talk for an hour and the CLIs
I might still not understand like the direction. So having
the visuals is everything, and the confidence confidence is so
is everything.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
For you, you know, Like we just talked about your
careers started from like humble beginnings, and I wonder what
is what was the hardest thing about getting started? What
was the most difficult thing on this journey to get
to where you are today? What was the thing that
scared you the most, the thing that you struggled with

(35:30):
the most.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Like I'm a really hard worker, and I know what
I like probably going into it like by myself, Like
I did the job starting out for three years by myself.

Speaker 3 (35:44):
I was the.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Business person, the creative person. I was loading my car
up with the flea market with a huge chair and
putting it in myself and doing everything and so doing
that by myself. And I didn't work in a design studio,
so I didn't have that visibility to how a design
studio truly operates. So really figuring out the contracts, the

(36:11):
budgets and how to present that, I did it, you know,
on my own, and I ask a lot of questions
and there were some great contractors and people that I
was working with and collaborating with on these projects, and
I just asked, you know, a million questions.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
But I would say that doing that alone.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
And now when I go to a big meeting and
I get nervous doing a big presentation, and I have
my team and my support team, my family, my husband
who's like my biggest cheerleader, and we do it as
a team, And that was probably like the most kind
of frightening part of starting.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Yeah, And I'm hoping that the reason I asked is
I think there are so many people right now who
are listening, have a passion, have a creative project that
they want to work on, and it can feel daunting
when you say, oh, I don't know accounts, I don't
know how to do my taxes, I don't know how
to put a presentation together. I don't know how to
pitch that. But you're saying, asking questions and just doing it.

(37:10):
I guess I'm guessing there are lots of me.

Speaker 3 (37:12):
You just have to do it.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
I mean, honestly, you just have to do it, and really,
you know, just having the passion and really you know,
the drive to wanting it and educating yourself along the
way and I'm continuing to educate myself along the way,
and every project we have there's a new group of creatives,

(37:33):
whether it's a landscape or architect lighting designer, that we
all learn from one another and that just makes me
and my team a better designer and we pass it
along to all of our next projects and clients.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
What do you think was your biggest mistake that you
made on that part of the journey, Like something that
now you look back and, oh, that's ridiculous. I can't
believe that was a mistake that it doesn't feel that big,
But at that time you're like, oh, no, I don't
know how to do this.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
So I worked.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
I worked on a project and I had one assistant,
but we were working on this project for this music
executive and she loved color, and so she was traveling
and this was actually starting out. She had a really
low budget, and so we were like, listen, we're going

(38:23):
to have this painted. We're going to do something unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
And it looked awful.

Speaker 1 (38:26):
It was like so it was a wreck and it
was just too many colors just went overboard, which you
can do, which is great.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
You to make mistakes.

Speaker 1 (38:34):
It's so important in the creative process to make mistakes,
and so she was going to be back in a
week and my assistant and like we'd spent the money
on the painters. We so I painted myself, with my
assistant the entire house ourselves.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Wow. Wow.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
You know, we wanted to make it great. And that's
not the first time I've done that. We worked on
projects that there was like a little budget, and I
wanted the project so badly to be amazing, and I
wanted to make the client happy and they're just and
so I just like painted myself.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
That's amazing, That's incredible. You sometimes that person now claimed
that Kelly painted my eye.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
I think they moved and then, but you know, I
just did it myself.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
And sometimes you just you know, you have to do it.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
You have to just put in the extra work and
make it happen.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
What do you think was the biggest risk you took
on this journey where you felt like you were kind
of leveling up. I feel everyone goes through this phase
of the doing the work, they're growing the building. You
went from doing the dining room to the whole home.
What was the big risks that you thought or a
leap you had to take which kind of shifted your career.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
I would say, you know, when I was doing interiors
and and this is like what's so great about you know,
my job is like anyone can call any moment. I
got a call from Bergdorf Goodman, you know, this incredible
store in New York, and they were looking for a
designer to do the like iconic restaurant on the top floor.
And so they're like, we'd like to come out and

(40:02):
meet with us, and we did like a presentation, and
I was like they were like, well, listen, we're speaking
to a few other people.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
And I thought for sure was going.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
To be a New York designer, like I was the
only one on the West coast they were speaking with.
And we ended up getting the commission, which was like unbelievable.
And this is like a store that you know, you
just you just dream about because it's you know, so
you know, iconic. So doing that project and it was
like a really you know, big success.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
It looks the same way.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
I think it's been like twelve years since that project
was was completed. So after the project, the president of
the company said, hey, listen, you know we would love
for you to have a shop and I was thinking
about I don't sell anything, like I'm a designer and
I don't have product. So I said, well, let me
think about it, because that was like a dream. Now
I'm going to have like a shop within Birdorf Goodman.

(40:50):
And so I went back and I was like, you
know what, I have designed a lot of things, like
a lot of commissions for some of our projects, and
we've done a lot of some things that we couldn't
find and we ended up designing. So within about six
months we designed this incredible space.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
It was like a little jewel.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Box and we were in business and I had accessories
and it was there for ten years. It did so well,
and it was a really fun thing to do, and
you know, I took as a challenge like I want
to do this. I was so excited and I you know,
really educated myself on how to you know, find you know,
fabricators you know, around the world. A lot of our

(41:30):
things were made there in different places. So it was
a you know, really cool.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Thing, and that got me into having a store and
completely different, completely different.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
And I think that's having an open heart and just
like riding the wave and being open to like any
opportunity and now we're you know, designing product and you
know hotels. I never thought in a million years I
designed a hotel, and uh, you know work, we're now
working with a lot of doing really like unbelievable cool things,

(42:04):
and so it's like really exciting.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Are there any particular cities in the world that you
feel you just constantly gravitate towards or have they changed
over the years, And what would be some of your
memories of going to any of your favorite cities or
countries where you discovered something new or something fresh, or
even something that felt familiar.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I would say going to.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Europe, like I love going like the Paris flea Market
as like unbelievable, and just any of the European cities,
like I was in Amsterdam this summer and I was
in so great and in Belgium, and that is so
many incredible artists, like these really great emerging artists, And
when you travel, you just see like what's special. And

(42:51):
I think it's so important to travel because if you
our world is becoming so same, there's not a lot
of you know, if you look on your Instagram and
you know in your technology, things are feeling the same.
So it's so important to travel because you really see
what are the special materials and the inherent designs and

(43:13):
craftsmanship that many of these different countries have. So it
was very important to get out and see things in person.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Absolutely, Kelly, I want to do something intuitive with you,
seeing as we're both being intuitive. So I'm going to
look through your beautiful but which I love to do
in general anyway, and I'm going to pick things that
intuitively call out to me, okay, and then ask you
the story about that. How does that sound?

Speaker 3 (43:35):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Okay, yeah, okay, there's so much stuff already. I saw
this picture. I fell in love with this. Actually, I
was like addicted to this whole space for a second.
Maybe I should ask you to walk me through this
because I saw this on your Instagram too.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Oh yeah, that's a project that's in California, and we
worked on it with an architect, Marron el said, and
he did the I'm on and I'm u Geary right,
and he's just such a talent.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
And this is an.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Aniche Kapor artwork, a Jonas Bolan chair that is from
the eighties. That chair, the chair is like sculpture and
that's why Actually, Jay like one of the things is,
you know, you think you've seen everything, and so for example,
like a stiletto heel, you think you've seen every stiletto heel,

(44:28):
and someone comes out with something that totally blows you
away and it's like a new thing that.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
That your heart stops.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
And it's the same thing with a chair and having
like artists find their creative spirit. You know, that's a
three legged chair, and just people continue to to design
and come up with things that you've seen, you've never
seen before. And it's the same thing with music, Like
you think you've heard like every kind of rhythm or

(44:58):
sample and you just or something new that just blows
you away.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
What about people who think that, like you know, Kelly,
I don't have enough money to make a space look good?
Like do you need to spend big in order to
create a space that feels good to you?

Speaker 1 (45:14):
No, one hundred percent, because you can, just like I did.
You can paint a wall and it could be one wall,
which is actually kind of cool. Every wall doesn't have
to be the same color makes it more interesting. And
just have one amazing chair that you love and one
light we need light light fixture and a table and like,

(45:36):
let it sit for a while and really just that
showcases your style. And it's nice to live in something
a little more minimal for a while.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Like I used to live.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Where I just had so many things that you know,
I found on my travels and there would just be
a lot of stuff. And I've kind of changed. I
like things that are really like a little more minimal
and important less that's the piece shine and have its
own moment.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yeah, I think minimalism is definitely where I feel like
I feel at home. It's quite minimalist. There's a lot
of empty space. Everything's very low as well, which I
really like.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
I know, I love like low, like some of these
like beds and furniture. I mean you need like a
stool to step on. They're so they're so tall, and
it's and it's to say everything's getting.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
Big, yes, everything, like literally we were.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Designed designing tabletop and you know we plates, like you know,
they're so much bigger now.

Speaker 3 (46:34):
It's like everything. And so while I love.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
Really low beds because I think you feel like really
low to the ground, and it also makes a small
bedroom like feel more expansive because it doesn't cut the
room in half.

Speaker 3 (46:48):
So a bed that's note. Yeah, a bed.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
That's like twelve inches in height, and it's so nice.
I mean it's very you know, it's like in Ja Japan,
everything's like really low and it doesn't get in the
way windows, and it makes your space feel so much
more expansive.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
These are very good practical tips. I think everyone, everyone's
everyone's going to be getting low beds because of that.
This space is spectacular. I don't think I've seen this
in real life that you would do. All the tiles
and everything.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
Oh yeah, that is in Austin where we met.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
We actually spoke over on the right side there, and yeah,
so that is a restaurant and so all those tiles.
I was in Portugal and I stumbled upon this shop
that had tiles, and it was like a seventy five
year old family owned tile company.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
And I went.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Inside and I was so moved in this restaurant, the
chef that we were designing this restaurant for. It's Mediterranean,
and so the reason why it's very patchwork is because
all of these tiles came from different like decades and periods,
and so you know, many of it's like dead stock.
And there was seven left or maybe twenty left and
so really created this patchwork of all of this, you know,

(47:58):
different color and pattern and reliefs, and it looks, you know, amazing.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Yeah, I love it. It's I didn't I didn't see
that day. I think we were hitting on the other side.
We're on the other side right well through them. I'm
trying to figure that out.

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
And it's also like making do with what you have
or what you've seen. Like I could easily gone in
this tile store and seen one tile that I absolutely
loved and like, okay, let's just do the entire wall
in that. But you know, having something that that you know, okay,
how can we make this work and make it really
interesting and kind of just you know, letting your creative

(48:35):
juices flow.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
I think that's what's so beautiful about it is that
when we're present and when we're when we observe. I
find that And I don't know how I started doing
it with furniture and things like that, but I feel
like when you've really I think it's just mindfulness training,
But when you get really present with like looking at
even the direction of like the grain lines you know
on a piece of wood, or whether it's looking at

(48:57):
like how it's cut or connected or you know. And
I don't have any of the vocabulary of an interior
design at all, or the language or have any skills
in this space. I can appreciate something that looks beautiful,
and so as I'm looking through.

Speaker 3 (49:10):
This, yeah, and things that are also like imperfect.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
And if you you know, if we're skinning, if we're
skinning a wall in timber, and you know, you want
the hand of it to really show its like dimensionality
and how things are assembled and put together, and it's all,
you know, part of the storytelling. And it does like
things that are imperfect are so beautiful, which is kind

(49:36):
of crazy because I'm a little bit of a perfectionist
and I'm trying to like, you know, let things go
a little more. Like sometimes like I literally will go
to like one of the hotels and I will see
the furniture that's out of place, and people are like,
oh God, there's Kelly, Like she's like moving like the furniture.
I'll I can tell if things are like two inches off.

(49:56):
I mean, I like to keep things like super tight,
but sometimes you have to like let it go.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
No, I'm with you, my wife, and I get into
I will rearrange dining chairs are on the table every night,
just because.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
I totally am that person.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
Yeah, my wife, love, what are you doing? I'm like, no,
these are just too close and I can't appreciate this
space because of this. I'm totally like that. So I
get that, and.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
I told my boys, I'm like, listen, I see everything,
like you'll never pull anything over on me.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Yeah, I see everything.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I love it. This piece I saw. I loved it
from the moment I saw it, and mean, it looks spectacular. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
So this is in the hotel that's in downtown, and
it's a pool suite because the building is a historic
building and it used to in one of its lives
be a YMCA, and so in order to get the
historic tax credits you have to keep a lot of
the programming there. So there was a pool and it's
quite it's like a thirty forty foot pool. And so

(50:58):
it's a three bedroom suite and it has its own
kitchen so you know you can stay in this. You know,
really incredible. I mean, this is an experience that you'll
really rarely get. And that's what we like to do,
is like, you know, give people an experience and something
that they can take an incredible memory home with them.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Well, I mean there's I could stop at every page,
So I'm really trying to be intuitive as I said.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Yeah, and you have to go to the Santa Monica proper.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Yes, I've been there before.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
Have you been there?

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Very is beautiful. No, I've been there. I've had I've
been there for birthdays and events, and yeah, that space
is spectacular. Downstairs upstairs, have been on the rooftop as well,
It's a really beautiful space. I love the use of
like plants and nature like to me, these kind of spaces.
Of course, these kind of spaces are really special with

(51:48):
like this kind of composition. But that feel similar to
the first one I showed you, I think, but when
people are trying to do plants in their home, how
should they think about it? Because I feel like that's
something that people try hard and struggle with keeping them
any life is one thing, but you know.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Like that is where having something that if you have
a really incredible yeah, that's that's so great. Well, we
are so fortunate to work with some amazing talents and
but I actually love going to the nurseries and seeking
out these unbelievable specimens that have that are imperfect and
that really transform your interior.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
And I think too like less.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Is more, although I do love uh, you know, we're
working on a project where there's a selarium and there's
there's so many you know, incredible you know plants and
uh in different colors of green and the pots and
it just tells like a really beautiful story. And that
project that is an artwork. That's a vase, the chair,

(52:49):
do you see.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, this this this is probably one of my favorite
rooms you've ever done. Like I love this room.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
So that's the grotto and the grotto actually the inspira
it's a library.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
When we were.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Working on this hotel, I wanted an intimate space where
people could go and have a meeting and hang out.
And this is a hotel that's in Santa Monica and
so the it's like maritime. I mean that was the inspiration.
And so I went to a friend's parents' house and
there were an older couple and they live in Malibu,
and I remember walking in their home and being so

(53:23):
inspired because they had this incredible artwork and they had
a library and all of these things that you know,
they're well traveled couple that they've collected their whole life
and it just felt so real and represented them. And
so this room, the grotto we called it. We brought
in a lot of emerging artists from Los Angeles and
then we also found a lot of vintage pieces as well,

(53:46):
and it's just a great place that you can have
a meeting and it's like being in a grotto.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Yeah lit podcast studio right there. Yeah, I love it. No,
it's beautiful And like I said, I could going on
and I'm glad we did that though, because I love
hearing you react and tell us the story behind incredible things.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
And I'm such a visual person, like it helps to
like see to see things because I am like so
visual and it's such a you know, a big part
of you know, my spirit and what I do. And
that's like when I was doing the masterclass, they were like, listen,
we want you to you know, you're going to be
you know, the teacher and you're just going to talk.

(54:23):
And I was like, but you guys, everything is like
so visual and tactile and there's like materiality and so
much to the story. And so we uh went outside
the box and went on some site visits yeah, so fun.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Yeah, oh yeah, you actually went out with.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
The way we went out.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Yeah, that's incredible.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, we went out too and toured and and I
think then people can apply and I think if somebody
is not like really skilled, if designed, like, they also
need to see things as well, so that helps them,
you know, to apply it to you know, what they're
trying to do.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Absolutely, and people can actually learn from you directly from
the master class. So that's that's a great way of
giving people the tools. If you're inspired from today, then
hopefully the master class will help you piece together all
these amazing lessons that Kelly sharing. Kelly, you didn't You've
said before or I've learned before that you didn't always
plan on being a mom or like you didn't think
about it as your natural course. But it's something that

(55:20):
of course I've even met some of your children, I
believe as well.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
So yes, yes, yeah, so my like growing up, you know,
my my mom worked, my grandmothers both worked, and so
having you know, the white picket fence was not you
know in my in my mind, I wanted to work
and I really love designed, you know, from when I
was doing my bunny shop, when I was seven years
old and really discovering my passion in high school and

(55:47):
just like you, I love graphic design. And that's kind
of where it all started from, is going to the
flea markets with my mom and seeing all the magazines
and so I really wanted to work and.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
Be, you know, have a career.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
And then I met my incredible husband, Brad, and a
family was important to him, and I was like, okay,
I got to think about it. You know, I have
an open heart, like I'm in love with you. You know,
I'm in love with my husband, and so I said,
let's do We'll have one. We got engaged and and

(56:21):
I got pregnant. That was the most transformational like moment
in my life. My family's everything and kids are like
the most like incredible layer to life.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
And I love what I do, like absolutely love what
I do.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
But it's like there's nothing like it and it's like
just everything, and yeah, it's the most beautiful thing. Like
my kids are my heroes. They teach me like so
much about life and you know, and I just had
a baby, and you know, so many people were like, oh, well,
you have two older kids, and like, you know, what
would do do differently? Like reflecting and is spend the

(57:01):
most amount of time with your kids now because it
goes by so fast.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, how's that? How's that been with? Also, of course
your ambition and you're working on so many projects like
you've been able to. It sounds like be so present
with your kids and not have to give up your passion.
And I think that that's such an important thing that
we also need to see as well, because I think
in that advice of people thinking, God, I just spend
every time, we kind of let go of the things

(57:28):
that you value. How have you? And I don't like
the word balance because I don't think that's necessarily what
I'm asking. It's almost like, how do you keep passion
and presence alive, present with your family, but then your passion,
which kind of keeps you alive. How do you keep
both alive?

Speaker 3 (57:42):
It can be a struggle.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
And what I do is when I'm at work, I'm
so present with my team and I go to my
studio like I love going to my studio.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
I'm like in the thick of it with them every day.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
But I make time for my kids and obviously they're
things that you miss out on, and you know, it's
all about prioritizing and having a routine and schedule and yes,
like reflecting, you know, with with Oliver and Elliott when
they were younger, and this is before there was like

(58:16):
zoom meeting and working from home and all that is.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
I miss things.

Speaker 1 (58:20):
I was traveling and you know it, it broke my heart,
but I was also happy. I was happy that I
was being fulfilled as a designer and I was living
my dream and I am living my dream and they
see that and and makes me an incredible mom because
I get to teach them things. But yeah, it's definitely,

(58:41):
you know, can be can be tough.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
What is the difference between creativity and replication? And is
replication the thief of creativity?

Speaker 1 (58:51):
It's it's such an interesting question. And for me, creativity
comes within. It's your soul and it's your stylistic voice,
and replication is looking outward. So what maybe inspires you

(59:12):
to design a certain way? And you know, for example,
replication can inform creativity. And if we're designing a front
desk of a hotel and the functionality works so well,
we're going to incorporate that, but then we're going to

(59:32):
give it a new spirit by skinning it with another material.
So that's where the replication comes into play. But creativity
truly comes from within, and it's an artist or a
designer or chefs, it's like it's their creative their creative voice.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
When you are on the journey towards this successful career
you have, now we are there moments of experiencing burnouturs Okay,
taking this project on, Okay, well I've got another project,
but oh no, they want me to do the whole house,
and oh my gosh, now I've got another one. And
I feel like a lot of creators today, especially online,
feel a lot of burnout because they feel like they

(01:00:11):
have to keep up with their own success. They may
have had an overnight moment which led to more work,
which is exciting but equally challenging. Even during the pandemic,
there were so many companies that went through their biggest
scaling but also led to people having to work harder
and longer. So how have you thought about burnout?

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Saying no is just as important to saying yes. And
there are projects that I really wanted to take but
it just would have just over and data and stressed
the studio. And so timing is everything. And I know
there's going to be other projects that will be on
the horizon, but you want to do a great job.

(01:00:51):
I'm personally so involved in every aspect of my business.
I mean my studio every day, providing the creative leadership.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
To the team. I'm involved in the business.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I'm involved in so every aspect of the studio, And
so you really have to kind of pick and choose,
like the right time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Yeah, how do you trust that the next project will come?
I think that's so brave and thoughtful that you're like, look,
I want to do a great job. I'm only going
to take these few projects. I get it. I have
to say no, even though I'm so in love with this,
but I trust that the right projects will come. How
did you kind of build that sense of trust? Because
I think a lot of us fear that, oh no,

(01:01:33):
maybe I'll never get an opportunity again if I missed
this one. So how did you have that more open
mindset that yes, I trust.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Well, because it came from the mistake of taking on
At one point, I took on a lot of work
and I just remember just, oh my god, I cannot
wait for these projects. It was we were doing three
hotels at one time in some residential projects. And so
of course I'm like, well, we're just going to hire
more people. But you have to be so in tune
with your team. And when you have a lot of

(01:02:03):
new team, it takes like a year or so for
them to really get in sync with what's going on
in the studio, how it operates, what's the the the philosophies,
and so making the mistake of taking on too much
and I remember it was a really like, you know,
stressful time, and I was burning the midnight oil and uh,
you know, and the team was and and then you

(01:02:25):
lose a team because they're burnt out, and you know
that's you know, terrible and so so really from those mistakes,
I learned to.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
To pace myself.

Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Do you have a ten off.

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
When I sleep?

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
When I sleep and I hit the pillows so hard
and I'm out and I have the or ring, which
I love, So I know I sleep very well. But yeah,
when I sleep is when I completely turn it off.
But then I dream design. I really I dream design
is amazing, and I'll wake up and I'm like, oh
my god, I wish I had turned the corner to

(01:03:03):
see like what was next or so, but sleep and
I go a million miles a minute and I love it.
I would not have it any other way. I love
I'm not like a great person with a lot of
free time.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
I love being busy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I mean, tell us about some of your dreams. Have
you ever invented, created, curated in your dreams and taken.

Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
Something out of it one hundred percent?

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Like there was like the staircase actually in Austin case,
Like that was like kind of a moment of something
that that I dreamed about, and the pottery and it's
kind of like not something you would traditionally see, like
a really big staircase and a new you know, contemporary architecture,
and so that was something that that I dreamed about.

(01:03:47):
And like the other night, I was having a dream
that I was in a house and there was like
this really amazing light fixture that had all of these
like strings of some sort with these small little lights,
and it was like, really, it's like very artistic, Like
it's in my mind's eye and we'll see where it
comes up in the design.

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
But yes, I do dream design.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
I love. That's that's wonderful to hear because yeah, it
just shows how obsessed you are and how much you
are in the world that it's it's even happening in
your dreams and that staircase it's so it's so amazing though,
And I love that it's.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Dream probably also as being visual because I see so
many images like all day because when we're doing concept presentations,
like we're constantly curating images to help present our story
and the concept to the client, and so I just
have like this library of like images constantly going through

(01:04:43):
my head. So I know that obviously is the inspiration.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
For my brain.

Speaker 2 (01:04:48):
M hmm. Yeah. And I love the dream to design
because when I'm reacting to that staircase, people like Jay,
it's a staircase, relaxed, but it really does spark so
much joy. Like I look at it and I go wow,
like you know, And so it's amazing how design from
your dream can actually spark moments of awe, which are
so nice to experience when you're just walking around doing

(01:05:09):
your daily tasks. You know, so special. I want to
ask you a question, Kelly, around artists valuing their work
or even creatives or coaches or experts or whatever it
may be. I think so many of us and I
get this question a lot. Jay I don't feel confident
enough to charge what I think I'm worth. Like people

(01:05:30):
forget the amount of time they trained, People forget the
amount of time they worked. It becomes really hard to
come up with an hourly rate, or a project rate
or a piece of art. Right. I have friends who
are artists who are constantly like not knowing how to charge.
How did you make sense of how you wanted to
price yourself and how do you encourage people to figure
out how they price themselves? What things could they think

(01:05:52):
about in order to do that?

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Well, it all has to do whether if you really
want to be involved in the project. For example, we
just had this happen, like there's a really amazing project
that's in Asia that you know, I'd love to be
part of, and our few is too high, and I
know I'm going to be very involved, but I really
want to take the project. And so the client came

(01:06:14):
back and was like, how can we make this work?
So I think it's like communication and you know, and really,
you know, both parties valuing each other's worth, and so
I think just being a really you know, great communication
and we'll have you know, some emerging artists that I
know are struggling and they're just getting started, and we
want to bring them on to a projects for a commission,

(01:06:37):
and you know, we'll figure out ways, like can we
internally help them get to a place where it's not
going to be as time consuming. So I think there's
really many different ways that communication is key.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
How did you go about creating your first pricing structure?
Because I feel like when someone's starting out as a creative,
as a designer, as an artist, they can struggle so
much much with their self worth and what their value is,
but they don't want to miss out in the client
And so how would you encourage someone to think about

(01:07:08):
pricing themselves and how did you do it?

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
I really wanted the job, Like my first project, I
really wanted a job, and as I said, I didn't
work for a design studio, so I didn't know really
how how to charge. And so I asked them, I said,
what do you feel comfortable paying me to do this project?
And they told me and I was like wow, And

(01:07:32):
so I came back to them with something I found,
you know, thought was fair, and we met in the middle.
But I was doing I really wanted the project, and
so you know, that is one of the projects that
I actually did the painting myself. And if you know
this is a stepping stone in your career, then maybe
you do take less for it. I think you have

(01:07:52):
to like look at all the different factors in how
you charge and is it, you know, for a friend,
is this going to be a big step in your
career or is this something that you know is going
to take a lot of time on your part and
your team's part, and you have to charge accordingly.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Yeah, And I think that, honestly, what you just shared
there is really smart and I want people to really
listen to that. Is it a favor for a friend?
Is it a project because it's just so epic? You
don't get to do things like that. Is it actually
just going to take a lot of your time and
it's not that epic, like it's just work? Which level
is it? Because that's going to affect how you price yourself.

(01:08:35):
And I'd also add that I found that when people
are coming up with that hourly rate, they're usually thinking
about how much an hour is worth, But really it's
not about your hourly rate. It's about the hours it
took to get there. So for you to learn the
skills you have the hours it took for you to
make it as simple or as accessible or as useful
as it did to that individual. Whatever it is you're offering,

(01:08:59):
of course includes the hard costs of materials and things
like that, but really you're charging for how much someone
values that time or effort or work. And in these
circles it can be hard to understand. And I think
looking at other people that you aspire to be like
or people that are in your fields can help you

(01:09:19):
find that middle ground. But again I love what you
said about figuring out where it ranks in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
The order of Yeah, and most clients and are like
reasonable and if you if you really lay out like
it's going to take me this amount of hours or
it's going to take a year to get this done,
and it's like this, you know, uh, this much of
a team.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
And on also the skill set.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Because if you're if you're going to bring someone on,
you know that they have an incredible skill set. They're
going to save you time, but they're also going to
save you money at the end, because a mistake is money,
and so is it worth to pay someone up front
who knows exactly what they're doing and how to operate.

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
That was great, Kelly. It's been such a joy talking
to you today, and I'm glad that we've this has
been a very unique episode. We've been reacting to beautiful
pictures in your book. I've loved hearing about your stories
as well of just you know, the steps that it's
taken to build this phenomenal career that you're having, and
I love that you still feel like you're just at
the beginning, which is such a great mindset to have.
But as you know as a fan of the podcast,

(01:10:23):
we end every episode with a final five, and you
have to answer all these in one word or one sentence.
But I always digress, So let's let's start with the
final five. All right. Question one is what is the
best design advice you've ever heard, received or given?

Speaker 3 (01:10:42):
Diversity of everything.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
I'll let you expand now, diversity of scale, of eras materiality,
because you don't want to buy all your furniture in
one place, and so many people do.

Speaker 3 (01:10:59):
They'll go to one place and buyo.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
The furniture because they're in a rush, and so diversity
is like so so important.

Speaker 2 (01:11:07):
Good advice, all right, So don't don't buy everything from Ikea,
trust me, I know. Yeah, I've done that many times.
All right. Got a second question, what is the worst
design advice you've ever heard, received or given That.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
A project has to be done in such a short
amount of time that you're forced to buy everything right now.

Speaker 3 (01:11:32):
Good advice, because you want.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
To to curate everything over time, so it's meaningful.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
I made that mistake earlier this year and we didn't. Luckily,
I didn't go through with it, but with the house
was finished and I wanted to do art, and that's
the thing you should least rush. But there was so
much a part of me that was like, I'm just
tired of looking at blank walls, and I wanted to
feel inspired in this space, and I like, I was
quickly looking at collections and everything. Luckily my wife is

(01:12:00):
so I'm a very decisive quick person and my wife
is like really slow, and we'll never make a decision
if she doesn't have to, and so we balance each
other out really well because I'll be like, yeah, I
think this will fit there and she were like, no,
I don't think so, and then we'll sit with it.
And I think this idea of sitting with things is
such a great You mentioned it multiple times in this conversation.
And I've learned that skill through through working on my

(01:12:23):
own home that sitting with something is the most important thing.
But often we think once we bought it and put
it together, we have to keep it. And luckily there
is a refund policy in return policy, you can give
things back. And I think it's interesting the idea of
sitting with something is something we struggle to do. We
think once we bought it, we have to keep it,
or we didn't buy it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
Well, everything is just so fast now, everything like just
is like going a million miles a minute, and you
feel like you have to get something done and it's
such an exciting process of like you're curating things that
you're going to put into your home, but you know,
take the long road home.

Speaker 2 (01:13:05):
Question three. I know you do a lot of health
and fitness is a big priority in your life. In
order to how does that affect your creativity?

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
I come up with a lot of ideas. It's just
it's unbelievable having just this. It's active meditation for me
where I can just cleanse my my brain and uh,
and a lot of things come to me when I
want to run and UH, and I love Disana as well. Yeah,
it's my active meditation. And when you create this clear

(01:13:33):
space in your brain, it allows for creativity.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
And he's running your main form of that or is
there or are there others? Or is that your main you?

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
No, I do. I do a little bit of everything.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I like to change it up because you want to
surprise your body, just like you always want to surprise
your audience. You know, it's the same thing with you
and me and in design and so surprising your body
so important. So I'll do pilates, uh, cardio, strength training,
like mobility work, like a little bit everything. And I
love playing tennis and also padel.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
I love padel.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
Padel is so cool.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
I keep missing your tennis Fuse I'm so upset with myself.
I love tennis too, and whenever you invite me i'm
out of town or traveling, it makes me so sad.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
We just put in a padel court at our house
and it's so much fun. It's such a great like
social sport with the glass walls. And we played the
first time last year. We went to Brazil and they're
all over there and it's so much fun.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
I got into it in Dubai and so Dubai has
really taken off, and then I played in Miami, but
it hasn't taken off in LA because pickleball has. So
I've been playing pickleball. But padell is.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
We just this weekend met this guy who's a Padel.
He's from Spain. He's like a Padel expert. He's a teacher,
and he told us there are eleven courts in Los Angeles.
They're like there were people's homes. There's actually one ironically
on Santa Monica, like near like by the Peninsula Hotel,
like a really random place. But it's such a it's

(01:15:05):
such a fun sport. And I like it because it's
a little more like skill and uh and a little
more challenging.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
It's a little more unpredagial than pable, for sure, because
you've got to be great at physics to play Padel.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
Yeah, it's like chess. It's like active chess. It's like
so yeah, it's so fun and social and really social.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Absolutely all right. Question four and five. Last two questions.
Question four, what's the first thing you think about when
you look at a space to bring it to life?

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
What's outside the window?

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Interesting? Walk us through that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
It's like what is outside the windows so important because
it's part of your interiors, Like you have to look
at it is it's like your first piece of art
in the room. So is it a tree, is it
another building across the street? Is it the mountains? You know,
it's so important to the space.

Speaker 2 (01:15:57):
Wow, that I did not expect that. There you go,
you know, and how how do you use that to
info what goes on inside?

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Well, if we're selecting, like we were working on a
project in New York and there was a terracotta building
outside the window, and so like it was their large windows.
There was five of them that go across this elevation,
and so it's really it's like a large piece of
art in the room. So we need some something that
really speaks to the window and the materiality on the building.

(01:16:29):
And so we had to consider it. And so it's really,
you know, important part of design.

Speaker 2 (01:16:35):
What are some of I'm digressing here from the final five,
but what's what are some of the biggest mistakes you
think we make when it comes to setting up our
spaces in our rooms. What are some things to avoid
that people can look out for?

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Like one thing that I love that I think a
lot of people. Like for small spaces, mirror goes so
such a long way and it actually really feels good.
Like there's great feng shui and mirror and where it's
placed is so important.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
And it not only creates.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
A window if you have one window in your room.
Like we're working on a hotel project in like Tahoe,
and you know we're using you know, really beautiful millwork
and incorporating mirror, and like the transformation of the room
and what it does to the space is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
Well, yeah, that's a great note.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
But I would say too the furniture, like really low
seating just makes your space seem so much more expansive.
And lighting is so important, and like one thing like
we really avoid is like just directional downlights.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
You have to be so careful.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
That they're not over seating areas because you know, we
have people and come to the hotel.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
We want people to look like great.

Speaker 1 (01:17:51):
And feel amazing, and so lighting is like really I
think underestimated and should be really considered.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Got it all right? Great answers? All right. Fifth and
final question. If you could create one design law that
everyone in the world had to follow, what would.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
It be really understand what your style is, and frequent
museums and galleries and go out and see what things
say to you, because you're going to discover something.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
That you didn't know was inside you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
That's going to make your interior represent who you are.

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
I think that's great life advice and design advice. It's
knowing who you are and allowing enough input. I definitely
found that when we moved from London to New York
and then from New York to LA it was just
I just got exposed to so much more than I'd
ever been exposed to. And that exposure is what also
helped define an edit who you were and who you

(01:18:53):
wanted to be.

Speaker 1 (01:18:53):
And you're constantly changing, like the more you see. Like
I look at projects I did twenty years ago and
they're they're great, but they're different than how I would
approach things now. Just taking your time it's like so
important and I go my million miles a minute and

(01:19:16):
I get excited about things and I want things to
happen now, but really it's like taking your time, like
pace is everything.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
Well, Kelly, thank you for your time today, and thank
you for being so present and gracious and kind, and
that you've been so trusting of me. I've loved having
this conversation with you, and I hope that everyone who's
been listening or watching has found some inspiration, some sparks,
some creativity to help enliven and bring to life their spaces,
because I really do believe design can make you happy.

(01:19:45):
I really do believe that design and aesthetics in our
spaces can define how we feel and how we move
and the emotions that we go through.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
And so and design too jays of something else about
design that we're speaking that is very more esthetic, but
it also makes our lives easier.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
And that's something that continues to get.

Speaker 1 (01:20:07):
Better and better and which is going to give us
more time. And so not only the esthetic of design,
but also the functionality, which is really you know critical.

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
Give us an example of that, because that's a great,
great point and we didn't talk about that. Tell us
a bit more about how we can think about our
spaces functionally in order to make them easier as well.
What have you found what little tips have worked for
you for that?

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
Well, in our studio, we're actually working with AI and
after like during the holidays and you know, the fall
when open AI announced the the you know, generative.

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
Intelligence and what it can do.

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
I just listened to a lot of podcasts and read
up on it, and I was like, I'm going to
implement this in my studio in some way. And obviously
you can't go full force into it, so department I
have like a director and we're using it every day
and it's been like really profound and really inspirational, and
it's not designing spaces for us, but it is actually

(01:21:14):
generating ideas that we can implement into a project and
something that maybe we never thought of.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
And you know, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:21:21):
Tell the team, I'm like, listen, this is like you
have like a junior designer by your side that can
help implement. And I'm super bullish on AI and what
it's doing for my business is unbelievable. And we're only
like at the surface, and soon we're not going to
have just a junior designer. Everyone's going to have a
senior designer working for them. And it's not going to

(01:21:44):
take away what we do because you've got to have
somebody driving the ship. But it's it's fascinating and love it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
Yeah, No, I love hearing you embrace that because I
think so many people get scared like, oh no, like
people can just design their rooms by AI. But I
think when you're confident in conscious of what you're doing,
what do you think what parts do you think it's
going to help replace and help solve versus what parts
do you think you're like, well, wait a minute, my
brain will always be able to do this part.

Speaker 1 (01:22:13):
It's just generating, like idea generation, but also like Photoshop
and how quickly that you can get things done now,
So maybe we can take on a certain amount of
work a year, but it's going to enable us to
probably take on more projects and be more efficient with
our time. And then when you're more efficient with your time,
your team's more happy because then they have free time.

(01:22:36):
So I think it's going to make our And this
is I'm not an expert in AI. I'm just telling
you how I'm using it and my studio using it,
But it's going to benefit us in so many ways
and helping give us more free time and idea generation,
which is great because it's like having a new person

(01:22:58):
on your team, a new creative spirit on a project
every day, which is unbelievable, Which is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Yeah, that's great. I love it. Thank you again, Kelly,
thank you, thank you so wonderful. I hope you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
Yeah, you're amazing and I and thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:23:15):
And I'm so happy to be here finally with you
and uh and your You're amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
Thank you, min Well. I'm glad that we keep deepening
our friendship. And I'll never forget the first time I
met you and how kind and sweet you are to me.
So thank you so much. And I'm glad that you
know the book's available. I'm glad that I'm glad that
we're drinking from your classes. This is this is spectacular,
this is a beautiful. I can't wait to shove the
whole collection. Thank you so much. If you love this episode,

(01:23:42):
you'll enjoy my interview with doctor Daniel Ahman on how
to change your life by changing your brain.

Speaker 4 (01:23:48):
If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with
a healthy brain.

Speaker 3 (01:23:54):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:23:54):
I've had the blessing or the curse to scam over
a thousand convictions to felons and over a hundred murderers,
and their brains are very damaged.

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Jay Shetty

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