118 - Golden State Killer Caught!

Karen and Georgia cover the arrest of the Golden State Killer. Plus investigative journalist Billy Jensen calls in.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Last is that it good bye.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Oh my god, you guys Fox they caught the fucking
Golden Steak killer East Area motherfucking rapist. That this is
one of the fucking weirdest experiences of my life. Let's
talk about last night. I'm laying in bed.

Speaker 3 (00:35):
I'm fucking I've been up since five am. I'm like, great,
I already know I'm gonna need a annext to go
to sleep, just for the fucking shit of it, because
I drank a fucking cold brew that day. Then I
look at my text and immediately and see what I've
been hoping to see every morning I wake up for
fucking ever. You texting me and Stephen they caught the

(00:55):
Golden State Killer. Yes, and I fucking pop out of bed, gasping,
scaring their shit at events. He was like mad at me,
and I call you immediately it.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
I was driving home from the Hollywood Improv just did
a show. There, met some nice listeners who had come
to the show. I was having a wonderful evening coming
down off of that. And I have to admit to you,
although I was not reading and driving, I waited for
a red light. But as I'm addicted to Twitter, sure

(01:27):
I opened my Twitter and I'm actually going to read
his name because this is the first person who told me,
which means the world to me, because someone was on
it and immediately was just like did you hear this?

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Everyone else who's tweeted us after loses to this guy
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
His name's Eric and it's at era er can't see
and he wrote they got him question mark. Reddit is excited.
So he basically came over and let me know. And
so at a red light, I open this thing and
it's basically just like there is an arrest and it's
a DNA match. You know, I didn't see that part yet.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
The thing that got me excited like that, I wasn't
just like, oh, this is just another thing is when
it said when you said Reddit's excited, and I'm like, well, Reddit,
if Reddit's excited, yes, that's like almost better than if
fucking law enforcement is excited.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, Because I feel like Reddit is set up to
make people stop being excited, right, They're like shut there down.
It's like no, no, you're being you're being rash, you're
being immature.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Or you're beingful, or you're fucking pinning it on someone
that has something to do. With it and that's fucking
illegal and crazy and stop it.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Exactly because so, yes, that's very important point to me.
So and what happened?

Speaker 4 (02:43):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Then I lay down and I start fucking googling and
redditing and twittering for fucking hours. And at first it
was they had the name of some dude that it wasn't.
I'm obviously gonna say his name, but he was also
a law enforcement you know, it could have been him,
all this shit and so I all this fucking research
on him.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
Then it wasn't him.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
So and like they put photos up, they put it's
just of the wrong guy, of the wrong guy. But
at the same time, this guy, this guy's a piece
of shit too.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
So I mean, but it's the wrong guy.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
I think.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's like that's the thing that we were talking about before.
It's just this all I can think about is the
beginning of making a murderer where they are having that
exact same kind of press conference, and was it Ken
Kratz or whoever that guy is. It's just like, we
got him. This is it. And it's just that thing
where as we watch stuff like this, then we're just like,
this is it. Joseph D'Angelo is that, you know, police

(03:37):
allege Joseph D'Angelo is the fucking Golden State killer, and
then we want that to be true so bad that
it's just like and now we're going all the way
down this road, and that's all you think about is
these days, how many fucking documentaries have you seen where
then they pull it.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
All apart, right, But I know a hunt, yes, the
one hundred percent DNA match, and the fact that I
think that, yeah, that does make it huge different because
and also because that's been happening, that happens so much,
and what a huge, high profile case this is with
so many different jurisdictions. I don't think these people had

(04:11):
to do so much fact checking. They did not arrest
this fucking guy until they were sure. Otherwise it would
have looked really bad. It would have made them look incompetent.
It would have been a ton of fucking jurisdictions that
it would look bad, not just you know, the fucking
Manitoba County or whatever the fuck Manitoba county. My god, Okay,

(04:33):
if you could get one question answered right now.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Well let me can I just also say this, never
in my life have experienced this from the moment you
and I started talking last night, I had like the Georgia,
so I text that. Then fucking thank god Georgia calls
me because I was like, if I have to be
by myself with this information, I'm gonna lose my mind.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Yeah, and Vince gave zero shits. He fucking fell asleep immediately.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well, they'd be like him going like, oh my god,
mankind he's gonna start in a movie, or you're like,
I want to care Well.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
I just said to h as he was leaving. You know,
we were supposed to go to breakfast. We talked about
a lunch and then I was like, I'm sorry, this
is my WrestleMania.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Yeah. He's like, I know. He made us bacon. He
lives it. He knows.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
He made us coffee, and he made us like a
like a spread, as if we were like reporters.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
But I have to say I've never had the experience
of when we started talking about the reality of it,
getting waves of chills and just continuing to get waves
of chills. I was laying down. It was four hours later,
I was still getting chills, And it's like it's a
feeling that I think everybody wanted to have, and everyone
thought they would never get to have. Right, everybody that

(05:36):
cares about this caser has been paying attention.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
My favorite I just I mean read it. I love
read it. And last night it was like it was
my companion. And the couple of the things that I
thought were so funny, one person, Uh, put up with
the fuck I should find them?

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Can you find no?

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Put up a thing of that. That there's going to
be a fucking sale on yearbooks from nineteen seventy two
and ninety three today. Yes, And also that all the
people who have a fucking lifetime subscription to.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Classmates dot com are really bummed right now.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
So all the people who were like looking through the yearbooks,
they were like, should I.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Do it a one year, a three year, or a lifetime?

Speaker 1 (06:14):
Right?

Speaker 2 (06:15):
And then they're just like, y, a lifetime, but you
never know there somebody else could come up. Yeah, I
mean it's not that's true. Oh it's so crazy. And
then when we were talking about it on like we
were basically texting on two different.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
You were texting you text me, we were texting on
two different threads because Steven hadn't responded yet, which is
so unlike Stephen, what were you.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Doing a first responder at all times? First when I
said it.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
Starts every week, and then I thought it was from
Stephen because he's the one who's always like updating us
on these crazy shit.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
Yes, you are so fired, it's unbelievable. Believable houses fire,
You're beyond fire.

Speaker 3 (06:53):
Leave the equipment, get the fuck out of here, show
us how to use it.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
My cats are in Europe.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Take care of business. Please get the fuck up. And
I just want to say I have Steven's mustache. Did
you see me keep trying to videotape you a little bit?

Speaker 1 (07:06):
You caught me.

Speaker 3 (07:06):
There's no like like holding onto it the whole time.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Well, I just want to do this. I had my
fist in my mouth like I couldn't bite my nails enough.
I just had to them go full fist like an infant.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
I mean, we were leaning closer and closer in the
computer was going on.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Right, okay, But also I have to say it just
as like the casual almost like you know, as this
infota that was such an unsatisfying press conference because we
know he's in custody, we now know his name, we
know that. I mean, that fucking mugshot is so uncool.

(07:45):
It is so unnerving and upsetting looking. But he did
have some scrapes on his forehead, which it looks like
the cops may have accidentally thrown an elbow.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
Well, here's what Here's what I took away from them
explaining how they detained him that they were suspecting he
was going to try to kill himself, which I know
is something that happens a lot, like with the older
suspects when they finally find them and they get that
knock at the door and the fucking they shoot themselves. Yes,
so it sounds like maybe they had it. I mean,
I'm just obviously conjecture yeating out of my mind. They

(08:15):
had to like fucking tackle him to get a gun
away from.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Him, yes, or they had some kind of like they
were so prepared because they had gone through so much
heartbreak that they already had a guy coming in his
back door, you know what I mean, something like that
where it's just like they I would First of all,
I'm so mad Paul Holes didn't get to talk during that.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
You have basically Paul Hole's appearance views way too high
at this point for you. Standing in the back room
he press conference.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
He was like the he was the wallpaper of that
entire press conference was just like step forward cutout. It's
not even him.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
He like sold them the cutout for five hundred dollars
for a one time.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Years and now it's going around to all the craft
stores in the area, all the people that knit and
deuced handstitching and all that are like, yes, Poles, but
I wish, yes, I wish we could have just gotten
the the reason those reporters kept asking the same question
over and over, and then Amory started to get a
little pissy because Amory's like, I control the information, you

(09:13):
can tell. She's just like, I don't like this fact
that there's data miners that know more than I do,
totally clearly, but just the idea that we just want
someone just walk us through real quick the day before
up to the arrest?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Right?

Speaker 2 (09:26):
How?

Speaker 4 (09:27):
What?

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Where?

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Right?

Speaker 3 (09:28):
Or even like I mean, of course, what I'm dying
to know is what you know. It's the thing of
what led them to suspect this person enough to collect
his DNA?

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Was it a tip?

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Was it? You know? Was he on?

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I mean it had to have been a tip, right,
it had to.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
Have been otherwise why would they have I mean, he
fits the profile, is what's obvious about it. He's seventy
two years old, so he's in the right time frame
he was. He had access to police scanners, which is
something they always suspected because he was a cop, which
wasn't something that they had, you know, didn't seem like
something that we're looking into. But no, but that many
had access to. You know, there's like little things there

(10:05):
that would have made him a suspect. But I bet
there were thousands of those people for sure, so there
had to be at least one or two tips of
like And then you look at the photos side by
side of him at that time, the Navy photo of
him and the.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Fucking A couple of the sketches are like dead on,
dead on. That hairline is a super match. That's the
thing I love to do. Yes, that's right, the lips,
the nose in that one picture where his eyes are
real sunken in.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
It's like we were just talking about how and what
we should put this up on Instagram. But the photo
that is the most realistic and creepy that always gave
me chills, looks the least like him. Yes, And the
one that's kind of like oh, someone did not have
to fucking draw looks the most like it's exactly apologized
to whoever fucking drew that I'm a piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
But see, don't you think that that's I mean obviously,
But this part of what all of this is is
we've been in a panic making things up this whole
time of like, here's my theory, here's what I think.

Speaker 3 (10:59):
You know, this thing obviously leads to this thing. How
can you not think it's this person because look at
this he did these things.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
My obsession is like I was like secretly in my
mind but never had the guests to say it was
like he's some kind of a gymnast, he works at circus.
Let that thing of him, like jumping over fences and
shit is so like not the average person can do that.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
Well.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
I wonder if, as we talked about in the episode
where we did the Skylight Books with Patten and everyone,
where they had that tip come in that someone came
into a hospital with a broken shoulder and they had
checked because they realized that jumping over a fence, he wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Have known that there was an incline.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Oh right, right, So they went in and they asked
hospitals around, like, did you get some character coming in?
And there was a dude coming in who fucking had
a broken shoulder. As soon as they were onto him
and realized that his idea was fake, he fucking bolted.
And then the Easteria rapist was fucking out of commission
for a couple months. Yes, fucking probably recovering, you know,

(12:00):
allegedly recovering from his shoulder injury.

Speaker 2 (12:02):
Yes, because you can't. You can't do all the things right,
that horrible things that he would be doing with just
one arm. You can't control two people, tie them up
all that shit.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
I mean, so how maybe that's the fucking thing that
they were like, this dude has a show old shoulder injury.

Speaker 2 (12:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
I mean had to be someone who put it together.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
And now so let's in the uh. I think it's
both of our favorite piece of information that we have
learned that everyone else has learned online. Yes that this
the reason that Joseph to Angelo, who the police suspect
is the Golden Stacular, right. The reason he was kicked
off the police force in Auburn is because he was

(12:38):
caught shoplifting dog repellent and a hammer at a pay
and save and fucking citrus heights.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
To tell me where that is? What's the place? What
are these places like? To are the rule because you're
from there, they rule as fuck?

Speaker 2 (12:50):
So it's actually not so Auburn is rule as fuck. Okay,
Auburn is very My college roommate lived there is from there,
and it's very like it's not it's like, no, it's
rural like horse people, farm people. It's also like rolling
hills with lots of coverage of oak trees.

Speaker 3 (13:08):
Okay, is it like beautiful and people have expensive houses there? Yes,
it's seed expensive secluded houses exact, were like cheaper kind
of big.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
I mean, I think it's a full range because you
can live there cheaply, right, but also on a nice
like an acre of land that looks amazing, like everything
comes with two oak trees type of place? Is the feel?

Speaker 6 (13:27):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Also, remember that story I told you about the girl
my roommate was friends with who got up in the
middle of the night and there was a man in
the hallway. So she's just started making that noise. Yes,
that's Auburn. Should that happened in Auburn, Jesus. So it's
a little bit like it's it's it's as sketchy as
a country area can be, right, So you think it's safe,
but it's so so secluded that it's it's farm safe.

(13:51):
So like that's shotgun levels safe. You frame your fucking
neighbors aren't going to hear you. They they if they
hear you, they won't be there for seven minutes, right,
and they also will mind their own fucking business. Yeah,
so you can scream if there's a pre agreed screaming situation.
But uh oh so my point with that was, oh,
just you know, then there's We talked about this in

(14:12):
the Skylight Books episode discussion him cutting that dog open,
Like I now want to know when he got caught
it was, so it was before or after because he
cut the dog.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
If you listen to the book, Yeah, he cut a
dog who came upon him while he was prowling.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Fucking cut the dog open. The dog survived, don't worry.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (14:37):
But the dog repellent's interesting for two reasons because one
that this fucking hound dogs who are sniffing his trail,
and in the book they talk about how they lose
the fucking trail at some point they can't follow him
and also the victim said that he had a weird
smell that that couldn't place, which I've always wondered about.

(14:57):
I got an email recently from a fucking cool new
who was like suspecting that it was a migrant worker,
and then we were both like, maybe the fertilizer was
a weird smell that smells familiar or something.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Like that, right, And we were talking and I were
talking about if it were a migrant worker, it would
be such a good hide and plain site type of
job because if he was kind of like, you know,
acting like he was, say, a down and out person
that's just trying to blend in, Like nobody's going to
be like I am suspicious of this guy. That's it's
the perfect kind of society to blend into and have

(15:30):
nobody's going to say any thing about any butt.

Speaker 3 (15:32):
Nope, it's a fucking local dad, husband, neighbor, pop, neighbor,
ex cop, which is even a better fucking way to
hide to blend in.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Right, well, the ultimate fucking way. Right, it can't be
this old white guy in a white T shirt with
white hair, because it's just an old man. It's just
an old man that every once in a while yells
fuck in the street, which is what the neighbors allege
about the alleged Golden State killer on the on the
alleged news we allegedly watched a minute ago.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Oh my god, and then we were talking about uh okay,
so everyone's one of everyone's favorite clues or like conjectures
is that at the town hall meeting that was had
about the Easteria rapists while it was going on, uh
that that he must have been there, because a man
stood up and said, I don't believe that he would

(16:25):
have that he'd be able to break into someone's house
when the husband's home.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
And no man would, no man would let that happen.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
And three months later, everyone's like, a couple of days later, No,
three months later, that man's house cap broken into, which
could have been a coincidence, we don't really know. But
and they were attacked, right, they were attacked, and the
husband got tied up, and.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
I mean his wife was raped horrible. So God, was
he was.

Speaker 3 (16:46):
A cop, you know, was he would be so much
less suspicious to be there. Like when we're looking in
at the photo of who's in the crowd, we're not
looking at the cops right, the people in uniform.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
I would fucking glance right over them, Yes, especially like
if he had the the cop thing, And it would
be interesting to be able to figure out when that
when the news conference was or whatever they called it,
the town meeting, and because they said he was an
Auburn cop from seventy six to seventy nine, So I
did that lie in that I think it's done in
the frame. And then he could have even been standing

(17:16):
in the front.

Speaker 3 (17:17):
He could have had his un on stage fucking with
a bunch of cops.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
Which is the thing that So we were all texting
with Billy Jensen last night, who helped finish Michelle McNamara's book,
and he's also a crime reporter himself, and we were
talking about all of this where it's just like I
just we were just saying, he said himself, I'm afraid
this is a dream. I'm afraid this is a dream

(17:43):
because it's all becoming so cinematically, like it's so heightened
that it's a cop hiding in plane sight. Yeah, it's
just everything about this is as surreal as it can be.

Speaker 3 (17:55):
And then you know on Reddit they're talking about like, well,
why would a cops steal someone was like, it makes
sense someone who likes a thrill, and the Easterie rapist,
it almost was like he got off on almost getting
caught because he did a lot of fucking creepy, weird
things that were over the top dangerous, dangerous, you know,

(18:16):
and so someone having a getting needing to get off
on like just stealing a quick thing that would make sense,
that fucking kleptomania thrill that you get.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
But also because he was a cop, I bet you
he had seen things where people they found the receipt
for something and traced it back, and they only make
these kind of hammers and carry them at this place.
So he's like, there will be no trace of enery stuff.
So he because he left stuff behind a lot.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yeah, and so it's just so but almost like why
would he do that unless he did it on purpose?

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, Because like he's saying, you can't catch it.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
Right, or you can't trace this to anywhere because I
fucking stole it.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, there's you I know he's working on like fucking
nine different levels.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
It's I wonder if the hammer like had the name
of the store on it the way they some some
of them do, and It's like he was going to
leave it behind to be like I was even at
this store and you don't know who I am because
I didn't I didn't interact with the sales girl or whatever.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, because it would lead people there and then dead
end because then he's girl. Sally would be like, well
I sold a hammer to this cop dude that I know.
Dead end doesn't matter, No, wouldn't happen. Yeah, no, trace,
it's beyond. They have to make sure he doesn't kill himself.
They have to get him to talk.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
This is the part that gave me the most fucking
chills that anything ever has. There's in Michelle's book, and
it's known that sometimes he would start crying in the
middle and say I'm sorry mommy or fuck you mommy,
and like kind of lose it. And a lot of
people were wondering, you know, was that just him? Is
that like a red herring? Is he trying to throw

(19:47):
them off and they can think he's crazy something like that. Okay,
So this guy, the fucking amazing Sluice on Reddit did
all this fucking slew thing. This guy, Joseph fucking DiAngelo
when he was younger, was engaged. They found the engagement
fucking article to a woman named Bonnie. Bonnie married someone else.

(20:07):
He married someone else, and that was in nineteen seventy six,
and one of the women who was sexually assaulted insisted
that no, he laid down and said, fuck you Bonnie.
I remember that, not fuck you mommy.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Wow. So yeah, I remember reading the fuck you Bonnie thing?
So is that recently And.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
This dude was fucking engaged to a woman named Bonnie
and the engagement got broken off somehow?

Speaker 2 (20:30):
And was that the piece that made the final thing
go click? Like right, could just uncovering that an old
engagement that yeah, shit doesn't get recorded by the county. No,
only weddings do. Like, how would you know that unless
suddenly Bonnie's like, is Bonnie.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
The one who's like, you need to look at my
fucking ax? He was I broke off my engagement with
him for whatever fucking this reason. And that really liked
to eat.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Fucking dog repellent.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Uh wait wait that was the other one. There was
another that was fucking great. What was it?

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Jesus Christ. I'm like so uh shaking, It's like a
million It's almost like the feeling is supposed to be
that like the Homeland red string board. It's almost like
now we're done with that, but actually a brand new
one is started.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
There's even more now, there's even more of those red
fucking things. I want to know, like what connection he
We sort of know what connection he had to the
other cities. There's always been his guess of like maybe,
well there was the city planner. Maybe he worked for
an architecture firm. Right, so what's the thing about this
company he worked for? Billy Jensen was telling us about
it too.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
So there was an article that they found or it
looked like it was something out of an old yearbook.
So this is like the yearbook, just data, okay, And
it said that he I think it might have been
his his his little thing. They used to write a
little chunk under instead of like as he worked for
a place called Seerra hoist End Hall or some shit

(22:04):
like that. I have the name in here, but essentially
I was. I said to Billy, like, maybe that's the
because they always thought he either had construction connections. He
was in a class learning how to be an architecture
or like a landscape designer.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
That's because of the homework fucking piece of papers, which
is like my favorite fucking evidence in the world.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
It's so creepy and on the back of it is
from your spin off podcast my favorite evidence. Oh are
you read evidence in a fucking monotone voice where he
writes punishment on the back? Yeah, piece of favor at
that point, that part and fucking I'll be done in
the dark is chilling.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
Okay, go on, it's so scary.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
So no, no, no, but it's just there are things
on that uh that company. He was a diver, which
you know divers have like nut bodies, like like you
have to be fit like crazy and humongous caws swimmer
divers they have to stand on their toes on a
diving board. Their cats are.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
And that means he was a good swimmer probably too,
which is like calves for days. So wait, tell me
more about the ark of the company that what do
they do?

Speaker 2 (23:12):
I don't know. I have no idea. I just saw
that the thing that he sent us, it's Sierra hoist
and crane. So it's basically if you have anything that
you need pulled up by a cranees were last name
or pulled out? No, no, no, it's like the two things.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
The company they hoist stuff and they crane, and they
will drive a crane somewhere and they will hoist the
fuck out of side. I was like, mister hoist and
mister crane. I wonder how they hired this teen. Mister
Hoyst was the worst boss. He was such a dick.
You couldn't be.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Four minutes late.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Oh my gosh. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
So there's just a little bit of that, Like it's
just these things that we have no idea how they
actually apply. But then your mind is going crazy of
like just for years thinking about this stuff and not
having answered and suddenly just being like, oh, yeah, hoist
and crane means they pulled trees out of the lots
where they eventually built those you know, That's what my
mind of like. And I said that to Billy Gentsen.

Speaker 7 (24:02):
He was like, possibly, I like, so we harasped Billy
Gensen last Nay, I deleted it before I so he
he messaged the two of us in groupmate text.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
Yeah, the reason is did you see my original message?

Speaker 2 (24:17):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
I thought I thought I deleted it before either of
you could see it because I was like, Georgia, chill
the fuck out, but I met he doesn't even know
us that well, like, don't be a fucking we've met
him twice.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
I messaged him and said the three of us and said, Billy,
please tell us anything. I pinky st where we won't
tell like I just wanted. I knew he had more information,
and I just wrote pinky s where we won't say anything.
And then immediately it's like, you are fucking psychotic Georgia.

Speaker 2 (24:41):
And I deleted it. But I guess he already saw
it before I deleted it, so you didn't see it. No,
I did see that my message. And when I saw
that message, I was like, fuck, yes, oh.

Speaker 3 (24:51):
I love that you that's wrong with you?

Speaker 2 (24:53):
No, I love that you did that. Because also I
think he wouldn't tell us anything. He couldn't tell us.

Speaker 3 (24:58):
And then I was like, well, what if he tells
us something, it gets out through some other way and
he thinks that we're the ones who fucking spilled the beans? Right,
So I just I was just like, forget it. But
I guess you can't delete messages. I didn't know that.
I think you can only delete them from your own.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Maybe yeah, maybe it's just like you never have to
acknowledge it again for your own life. But I thought
it was hilarious that you did it. And I think
this is that special circumstance of like it's as if
we all love the Philadelphia Eagle, right.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
I never I've never understood sports stands.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
I get it now. This is it. This is the
feeling of it. You're so engaged, you've been following it
for so long. You care about these people.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Our team has had bad luck for fucking forty years
and everyone thinks that we're cursed, and we fucking won today.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, the super Bowl. Also those women who appeared in
the Case File three part series that were the victims
that spoke for themselves that they're fucking.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
The woman whose mother was the victim, their sisters or family.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
That they read that Anne Marie read that that was
her letter, that was from Debbie because her mom was murdered,
and that part of that book is sad when she's
like the rebellious team nage daughter and then she comes
home one day in our mother's mother caring so bad
and his brother speaking, Yeah, they're the fucking players and.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
We were rooting for them this whole time, and they
finally fucking won and.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
They had to like they have had to endure that motherfucker.
Mister Harrington, Uh no, no, mister hare I thought you
meant that in a positive way.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
I know how.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Motherfucker that bad as the East Area rapists and the
Golden State Killer allegedly Joseph Antel, those police have named
by one hundred percent would call them and harass them
years afterwards.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
That's another one of the things.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
So fucked up.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
It's so fucked up. That's another one of the things.
Is there's that we all watched the it was the
I D Special what was it called, It's not over
yet Until it's over.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
The Golden State Killer, It's not over it ranks.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
So that's an incredible documentary. And actually one of the
guys the like arm they keep calling the armchair Detective
or whatever. He's one of the guys on Reddit who
was like out like he was the one to follow.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
He was telling us every knew it all. Yeah, so
he they it was great in that special, it was
really good.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
They posted a thing about one of the calls was recorded,
the gonna Kill You recording. Yes, and everyone tried to
figure out in the in the documentary what was playing
in the background.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
It sounded like people were talking.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
I went down that rabbit hole one night and it
was They figured out what movie it was. Oh no, no,
it was a TV movie from the nineteen seventies, and
they figured out what part of the movie it was.
But now they're saying this one guy, this random fucking
dude on Reddit posted Yeah, but I think I heard
some like a police scanner chatter in the background, and
it was.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Just a blip. It was just a fucking blip on Reddit.
And it's fucking legit. It's true.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
That's what they fucking heard because not because he had
a fucking scanner, because he was a fucking cop.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
He was a cop. I got a lot of coffee.

Speaker 2 (27:47):
I mean, no, no, no, it look this is like,
this is an explosion. This is a fucking explosion. It's
so I just didn't think it was gonna happen. I
really didn't.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
I just thought I just bought a what are they
call when you monitor your heart to see how fast
it's beeding?

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Was it a heart monitor? Yeah? Should we go see
how I take a cuff?

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Yeah, put your cuff off. I'm gonna go get it
press and we're gonna see.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Yeah, let's keep your let's keep you medically observed. No,
I just it is such a strange. No, it's funny.
We'll just see how you're doing. But also we have
to add the coffee element into it as well. We've
all been drinking a lot of coffee.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
What I'm not going to do it?

Speaker 2 (28:29):
How come because it's weird knowing about your blood pressure?

Speaker 3 (28:34):
Blood pressure cuff? Well, how do you begin with right now,
That's not what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
I'm just texting with my friend Dave Scandari, who we
all lived in Sacramento at the same time, went to
We kind of all were like dropouts that then ended
up going to Sacramento. That sax City was the junior
college there, and he and uh, we had this group
of friends, like six friends, and we jokingly called ourselves

(28:58):
the eighteenth Street Hill. Oh my god, because we all
lived on Eighteenth Street. But it was sarcastic, but then
we actually started doing it for real the best the
hell Cats. But he texted me this morning and I
was like, isn't it weird we lived there? Like this
is this thing that in my and all my ego
mania sism. I'm just like, but this is a weird
thing where this is part of my history, Like I

(29:19):
do know, I had my like when I said to
my sister today I of course called her in the morning,
was like, they caught him. He's this, he's that. Da
da da da dah. And when I said he lives
in Citrus Heights, the man they arrested lives in Citrus Heights,
my sister goes, oh, remember we start to drive out
to Citrus Heights when I had to do that thing
for work, and like we started talking about and it's
what I've already told you. But there is this there's

(29:40):
a bleakness, or there was in the nineties, the eighties
and nineties and Sacramento and this, like these long streets
that went on forever and all it was was asphalt
and mini malls and and a horizon that had nothing
on it. And it I thought I was fucking dying
every day in that city. And this it's that idea
that like it almost feels I know it's also serving.

(30:04):
It just almost feels like I was justified a little bit.
Like fits bad fucking vibes, Those bad vibes were real.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
I keep thinking about so and I'm from Irvine where
a couple like the later in the eighties where when
I was a kid growing up there, Uh, there was
a couple incidents there and murders and stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Ah, it's too much. It's it's a weird like suddenly
you're watching a movie and suddenly you walk by in
the background as an eight year old. Right, it's the feeling.
It's weird, Like, am I background player in this thing?
Which is just I think that's just human that's human nature.
You might be like, is this little bit fair enough?

Speaker 3 (30:41):
But it's like, fine, Well, it's the places that we
thought of and that we inhabited that were sinister and
dark and either were not at all what we thought
they were, or were exactly what they thought we would
think we thought they were if we were creepy kids.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
Yeah, that's right. It's like maybe we were getting a
psychic feeling. Yeah. Maybe it was just too much asphalt
from my precious you know, delicate system.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Maybe your brain inhaled too much asphalt. Can I give
a shout out really quickly? She of Murderino on Twitter.
Her name is Kara Stone. It's k U r R
A Lynn, she tweeted. Jess smuckinged at the press only
conference for the Golden State Killer by saying, I was
with SSDGM.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Daily News, honey, And did she make fake press credentials
or did she just fucking she just like, you don't
need him if you're confident. She just nailed it. She
had her little hat with the word press on the
hat on the ring.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
Oh, she says, I'm kind of freaking out because I'm
wearing my Murderino shirt and everyone else is dressed very nice.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
I didn't think this one through. Then let's see what
she wrote. Uh, will you be live tweeting? Blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
She said, I'm trying to look casual because people are
staring at me.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
Yep, I love girls. She asked it all much for
the SSDGM news.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
Someone says you didn't lie though, Yeah, they are?

Speaker 1 (32:00):
You are now?

Speaker 2 (32:02):
Then I think that's how she wrote. She's probably in
fucking jail, right county jail because she will bail her out.
It will. We will not. Ever, if you do something
you're on your own. Steven will use his money that
we pay him. Finally, his birthday money, his birthday money
he got him us bond birthday Okay, that's it. That well,

(32:26):
it looked like they were having that obviously that press
conference like in front of the station river, So I
wonder how they would have gotten it like you're not
allowed in and you are allowed in, I think pretty easily.
I bet she could park that style.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, I mean yeah, I've lied by saying I'm with
my community college a journalism team to get into like
things before.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Nice, it's not true. What else it wasn't true that
you were on the journalism team or the full story
you just told me wasn't true. No, the journalism team,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
That's not her team.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
I've never seen.

Speaker 3 (33:00):
Oh, that's true.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Howard Dean conference just no.

Speaker 3 (33:05):
There when he did the weird screen Unfortunately, I was
there like two weeks before, and I was like, I
love this guy, Howard. Howard Dean was great, and then
he fucking screamed. What was I going to say? Okay,
if you could get one like how do you do it?

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Question?

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Or one like why this? Why did he do this? Answered?
What would it be? Or like confirmation because I have
this thing of like the couple that was killed, which
is what he got arrested for in Sacramento because the
goddamn mother fucking statute limitations about rape ends pretty quickly,
so it wouldn't matter anyways. So they got him on

(33:43):
these murders. But so the murder.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
That's changing in places, though, isn't it one would hope.
I think there was one story re read where they
were changing they are.

Speaker 3 (33:51):
Yeah, anyway, So Brian and Kate Majore, they were that
sweet couple who were walking their poodle, and it's just
like it's a freak thing that didn't fit the mo
at all, but was for various reasons get you know,
pretty sure that it was Easteria rapist.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
They encountered him.

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Somehow, and he chased them down and shot them in
a backyard. Ye, and threw their poodle in the pool,
which is creepy and weird. So maybe the poodle happened
upon him and was barking and so we threw in
the pool.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
They got in an.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Altercation, or maybe Brian fucking recognized him as a fellow
cop because he was an Air Force officer, and so
he had to kill them.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
This is different than this time where there was an
FBI agent that chased him down. That's a different one, right,
who got he got on a bike and then he
was in a car. No, that's a different one.

Speaker 3 (34:42):
That's so crazy, and that guy got shot but didn't die, right,
I don't know if you got I don't know that part.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Okay. Yeah, it's so because it went on so long,
and there's all these there's so many of the sexual assaults,
and there are people who know every single one of
these incidents, and we know, like the people on Reddit
are like mit and we are essentially entertainment tonightly, so
like if you want good, the good stuff, go onto
these Reddit threads because there are people that have been

(35:07):
working on this shit for fucking eight years.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
And I mean, I'm wondering how how many more are
now going to be tight in that don't have DNA
or he's gonna they said, I remember seeing he's talking.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
They caught this guy last night. He's talking, right.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
I wonder if he's just like you know, because a
lot of these fucking killers are actually cocky at the
end of the day and they want to be like no, no, no,
that's not how it happened, and they want credit for
these things that they're not getting credit for. They're being
very well manipulated by detectives in the interrogation to like
get them to spill.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
And I think in this day and age, like truly,
because it's twenty eighteen, they all those guys know how
not to do it. I'm sure they're very, very concerned
about exactly how they interrogate him to get him to
open and stay open, and not only that, so that's
amissible in court exactly, so they're not fuck it up
in any way. Nah, They're putting their best guys on

(35:58):
this one. And I say their best ladies. That guys
and ladies, guys and ladies, but probably especially Paul Holes.
That if Paul Holes came into the room, you did
something wrong. He puts his hands on his hips underneath
his blazer and starts explaining shit to you. You're just like, yes, Mayo, Kolpa,
Paul Holes, I gotta get this off my chest. Or
he's like, Joe, what did you do? Joe? You son
of a bitch, and he does some kind of secret

(36:19):
cop thing with him and then a ring pop but
his favorite ring pop. Hey man, I've brought your ring pop.
The ring pop theory. You know the grape is your favorite?
Oh my god, you love grape. You love grape. It's
also because he's so old. To me, that was the
other part of not having hope. I mean just in

(36:39):
terms of like there's like if he did all these
things and he's not doing them anymore, there's no way
he's still alive.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
And not on a seventy two year old like my
dad Marty. That my dad Marty looks fucking great for
seventy two. He's got a lot of time left. That
guy's a fucking This Joe guy is an old, fucking
piece of shit.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
It looks like it. Something's been weighing on him.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Maybe yeahs over the year, pressing him about.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Yeah, my dad's seventy eight. I think he looks better
than that guy. Yeah, it looks better than my dad.
Your dad looks.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Better than me.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Keep it hell, you got to keep it health, You
got to walk every day. Tricks.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Don't have baggage hanging over your head, like yes, being
a fucking rapist and murderer.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Being like a serial rapist to a degree where I think,
and also it's I understand that Anne Marie was like,
quit trying to say that a bunch of other people
did this work and we didn't do it because we've
been doing the Workshow I get that.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Like, I wonder if even Michelle McNamara, they want to
say thank you for bringing it to the public eye,
but like giving her credit.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Might even piss them off somehow a little bit.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Well some of them.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
It takes away from the people who do it for
a living, maybe, but or how many? Yeah, I just
wish one person had said before Michelle McNamara started writing articles,
doing all the shit writing for fucking lit different magazines,
saying we need to call him the Golden State killer.
We need to collective. I'm going to know everyone. I'm

(38:05):
going to go to all of the scenes. I'm gonna
fucking I'm going to make these cops talk to each other.
I hate my life to this. And there was an
element of pressure from her. They're not going to talk
about being pressured, of course by a citizen, but I
think that her bringing it to the media made them go, yes,
we are working on it, and like, maybe that is
not always a positive thing with the police and like

(38:27):
data miners and armchair experts, but at the same time,
no one was fucking talking about it before. And this
was a thing that like of all the murders and
rape cases in the nation. It was obscure, it was
not well known.

Speaker 3 (38:43):
If this fucking hashtag right now was what was it
eurons earonsthera rapists? What was it etherea rapists? Original knights, originals.
It's so it's aarons. If this fucking hashtag was aarons
right now, do you think you'd be half as fucking
blowing up as Golden State cashag Golden State Killer right
which is like the fucking she was. They were right,
a beautiful catchy name. Go listen to there's the three

(39:05):
part podcasts called I'll Be Gone in the Dark that
just explains with all the players how this book came
to be. It's really well done. It's really quick. Listen
if you just needed to catch up get and one
of them is that she that they knew that this
needed a fucking better name.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
You know, because it needed to reflect that he fucking
terrorized the entire state in all these counties. There was
no jurisdiction that was was more important, although you know,
Sacramento obviously is the grandfather and the original hunting ground
and all that, but that all these other things happen
and it had to be cohesively approached, and I do
think that, and maybe that's just because that's the that's

(39:44):
what I like. Yeah, but I think her going around
and getting evidence herself and just being like, fine, i'll
do it, just copy it for me made everyone else
go like no, no, no, I got it. Yeah, like she
wasn't gonna stop.

Speaker 3 (39:56):
She fucking she branded this fucking thing.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
She really did, and that's brilliantly Yeah, brilliantly branded and
then wrote about it. Oh, I know, we talked about
it so much more. I just it's like it's like
I called, I told my friend today, Oh, it's fact
pros because it's as dry as facts can be. She
then turns it into this thing where suddenly you're looking
at a picture, you're not reading a scentae oh wet it.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Yeahs that I would never use, but fit so perfectly.
I don't know what that's called good writing. You know
what I did last night? I was like, Okay, finally
I'm just refreshing everything. It's the same information. It's fucking
three in the morning, there's nothing new. I took a xanax,
which is I never do anymore, and I knew I
had to, and then I thought.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
You were almost over for twenty four hour right now.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Then I put in my headphones, which I always did,
fall asleep. I've been listening to I needed something nice
and light lately because I've been listening to fucking I'll
be Gone in the dark at night and it's been
scaring the shit out of me. Yes, I've been listening
to fucking Douglas Adams lately. But I fucking put on
I'll be Gone in a fucking in my headphones and
fell asleep to it.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Wow, And I it was awesome because it's a different story.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Fucking I was not freaking out, and I was not scared,
and my heart was fucking happy as I listened to
it and fell asleep. And as mister is it Heatherington
or Harrington Harrington? Mister Harrington said Bruce Harrington, Bruce Harrington.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
The brother of one of the victims and his wife. Yeah,
those victims get to for the first time in fucking
forty something years. They get to rest easy.

Speaker 3 (41:28):
And what I mean, what a relief that he's not dead? Yes,
you know what a satisfying like like it would be great.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
If they found him and he was dead. Glad we
fucking found him exactly that would have been totally satisfying.
But this is a different thing and if they handle
it right, which I believe in these people that they will,
and they're so by the book and they're I mean,
it was funny how crazy careful they started being. It's like,
why take questions if you're not going to answer that question?

(41:55):
But also how about Anne Marie getting super pissed when
they're like, is it related to mister cruel And it
was like no where It's just like, wait, what's the problem.

Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, all these Australians are like, we're just waiting to
hear our guys been caught too.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Right, because there are so many There's so many, you know,
I read the same article everybody else did, but I
was surprised. I didn't know there were that many mo
o matches.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
The eating, like sticking around and eating yep, and surveilling
for like weeks and months before brand and all that.
Oh it's so creepy, so's so crazy.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
What about what else? What else would you want to know?
I want to know what the connections with the other
locations are, obviously, especially Irvine. I already text my dad
and said, hey, did you know an next cop in
Irvine in nineteen eighty six.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Such a good idea. You're like, did you ever hang
out and talk to this guy at the donut shop?
Or maybe I didn't. That wasn't a slurg Pops. It
was the first place I like, where we want to
be right now? Where would Marty hang out? Like a
Whole Foods type of place? Yeah, mothers. They were called
Mother's Market back because he's a little bit of a hippie, right,
He's a fucking carabeating hippie. Kidding me?

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Now?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Was Janet a hippie or she just playned ball? In
the seventies they were just like the heals fed fanatic
hippies smoking pot chilies. Yeah, but they weren't. They were.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
They were yuppies. Oh okay, Yeah, they were totally yuppies,
got it, got it? They were can you be a
yuppie and not have money? They had the yet they
lived the yuppie lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (43:30):
Like if you could see this written, it would be puppies,
but foe yuppies. Oh yeppies, Oh yuppies, that's exactly right.
By yep yuppies, it would still have aux puppies. I mean,
I can't even think of what I want to hear
of those those near miss times. We know of the ones,
but like, because I read that book by one of

(43:50):
the other investigators and he wrote a self published book
that's that thick. It's so long and crazy, but it
was basically just his first hand experience of over and
over again getting called to these houses where the victims
are sitting on the couch crying and they had this
horrible thing happened to them, and it's it's so incredible.
One of the times he talks about was a time

(44:13):
where police pulled a guy over the morning after an attack.
He had all this weird shit in his car, and
they let him go anyway, and he got on the
freeway north and basically tored Auburn shits, yes, and that
part of the story, it's just like they no one
knows and that that was like my thing alleged fucking

(44:33):
all those other legal shit. But it's like if he
was a cop and they saw him in his car,
did they just go, oh, it's that go ahead, you're.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
Fighting, yeah, Or like when you get when you're a
cop and you get pulled over, you fucking hand when
they ask you for your license, you hand them your
fucking cop, i'd and they're like, oh.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Go ahead, Yeah, it's over. That's not there's no discussion
question be it'd be fucking disrespectful, which I wonder if
he kept all this shit around him, So even if
he was kicked off, the fucking dude.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Still dressed up like and the prowling, maybe he wasn't prowling.
Maybe he was fucking walking around dressed well. I guess
someone would have said they saw a cop dress. Yeah,
a cop by himself would be weird, A cop car
might be.

Speaker 2 (45:11):
No. I don't know. I would want to know also
about the real estate element, that thing where there was
a guy that used to show up at open houses
that would be across from places or I mean, that
whole part is I don't even know. I just want
to know everything they do. I think we will, I
hope we do. I wonder if I wish Billy would

(45:31):
call us. Oh you know what they were saying, I
was going to ask you because they were talking, but
they were trying to get at this press conference. They
were just trying to get Amory and our boy Scott Jones,
who I'm positive I drink with at Popeye's in the
late eighties. Popeye is the worst bar in America. He
looks so familiar to me. He's like every guy had

(45:52):
a crush on in Sacramento. But they were talking, they
were trying to get them to answer questions about that surveillance.
How exciting is it to think about those cops where
they were in the lab. They were like, it's a
fucking match. Now go surveil him or get the here's
the thing. We need the thing to match it. It wouldn't
be the match first, Yeah, they would go to get

(46:14):
the match. This guy looks good, This guy looks good.
It's it's eighteen points on the twenty point chart, right,
and then two guys go sit in a car waiting.
Now tell me, Georgia, you are now one of those guys. Okay,
or ladies or ladies, because anything can happen. We stay guys,
we mean people. We Yeah. So you are a police
person that's gotten sent to surveil this very good looking

(46:38):
suspect for as long as it takes, so that he
comes out and spits on the lawn, throws his cup
in the ditch. He's a literal see like what do
you see? What's your dream thing of how that surveillance happened,
that they snuck his DNA okay or or legally acquired.

Speaker 3 (46:57):
Well, I mean it's really I feel like it seems
so simple, and the most obvious one is if he's
a smoker. But the problem is, say he is a
smoker and he puts a cigarette out in an ashtray, Well,
there's no way to prove that that's his actual but
unless it's a brand new, clean cigarette cigarette ashtray. But
you know, he maybe he's a smoker and he flicks
his fucking cigarette. That guy doesn't look like a fucking

(47:18):
health nut to me, So maybe he's a smoker.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
He definitely looks like a smoker and yellows and it
drinks a huge, big goalbalt absolutely a big gulp. So
I mean, you know, they have their ways.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
The spitting on the ground is good, but it'd have
to be like, remember there was one case where they
did the spitting on the ground, but the only way
they were able to use it is because he did
just rain and so the spit was sitting on top
of the rain and the cement, so it wasn't like
part of the ground because then it'd be like, well
this is.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
They couldn't introduce all the other spit and weird shit
exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (47:51):
Or maybe they have rested him on something else and
got his DNA through that wait, like you know what
I mean? Maybe, but I like, but he probably was
so careful. Yes, and there's no way that they would
have been like, we got you for a stop. You
ran a stop signing, Hey, can we get your DNA
by the way, No, not that guy, and you'll never

(48:13):
speak to.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
That guy and he's going to lawyer up. Not the
guy who uh was caught for shoplifting a dog repellent
and a hammer. And then when they said you have
to go unto a review for the Auburn Police Department,
said no thanks and just took being dismissed right because
he didn't want to even talk about it.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
Okay, Well, so allegedly from what Reddit has told me
that he has a two daughters that were born in
eighty one and eighty six, so of course they're my ageish.
I looked them up on Facebook. Are we friends? I
don't think we are, but I want to know about
them and did they read while be gone in the dark?
Did they ever say to mom and dad, hey are

(48:51):
you guys freaking out that at that time of you know,
at that time.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
You guys, we lived here, because that has happened for
other killers when their children suspect them, really family members
suspect them. Yeah, isn't that The Happy Face Killer's daughter
is the reason.

Speaker 3 (49:06):
Like she's on that article. Was she wrote that article recently?

Speaker 2 (49:09):
What's it called? Like, I don't know, but she did
have a TV show for a little while where she
would go and meet other like she interviewed btk's wife.
You know, she would go and talk to families. And
I would say this too, like nobody should be in
any way contacted obviously, absolutely, but like we know that

(49:30):
there's all this weird access these days for people. Yeah,
it would be living hell to be related to this
person today.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Do you know that they've already tracked down the Yelp
review of what they're assuming read is assuming is his
wife's business. No, And there's some like really negative Yelp
review that what a fucking psycho she is. But it's like,
who knows where she is, what's going on? Who wrote
this review? If it's even her actual business, if it's

(49:56):
even actually his wife. But the article is called the
struggle to find my struggle to find peace as the
daughter of a serial killer on Huffington Post, which I
can't mean to read.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Oh that's her smiling face killer.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
Yeah, one of the Yeah. Okay, what about you? What
is your your You're sitting in the interrogation room with him.
You have one fucking shot?

Speaker 2 (50:26):
What what? What?

Speaker 4 (50:28):
What?

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Would what tactic would you take? I mean I don't
I couldn't do it. I find like these criminals so abhorrent,
Like I just don't even want to be anywhere in
near the building. But I would want if I could
be inside Paul holes or like just watch as what

(50:49):
he did.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
What I would have DNA inside inside of you?

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Right?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
You could? Are you being dirty about Paul holes? If
you could be if you.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Marry surrounded your heart and spirit and smells and tastes
with Paul inside Paul holes.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
If I could just surveil Paul holes. This is we
can't keep doing this, but okay, interrogate Stephen like he's
the now, I can't. This improv is so weird, kidding,
Just interrogate Stephen.

Speaker 3 (51:17):
I just.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Okay, So you're saying you're at Margaritaville, but you don't
see him hungover at all, okay, or that you have
sugar poisoning from what kind of margaret did you get?

Speaker 4 (51:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:28):
I got the spicy, the hot, hot, hot, and I'm
very hungover. Oh you're playing off really nice. Is that
that glow about you? It's that thirty one year old
about him? Oh that's where I hungover, you son of them, Stephen.
There's bacon and fucking bagels right here. Stephen throws up
on all.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
The swell back on it.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Oh wait, you did you puss play? Did you remember
to post play? You drink margarita's that were spicy? I
love spicy. It has like a stuff, the best with salt. Yeah,
oh the best I've So you're ulcer. You're old.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
You're not.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
You're old, but you're you don't.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
It's too late and you said it and it's recorded.
You are an old drinker, meaning like you just did
it again. You're a fucking old drinker. I know, Oh,
I know. You miss the period of like good drinks
one hundred percent. No, I burned out. I burned out
on like Bartles and James acid stomach from wine cooler.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
Yeah, yeah, that's how bad. You didn't get a drink,
fucking classy ship. Now the mixology was far off. No
one had a fucking curly ass mustache. When I was
in bars, it was all free popcorn and like fucking
Miller light and a small glass.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
It was dark shit, and it wasn't Sacramento and smoking
aloud and smoke please smoke, waitresses handing you lit cigarettes.
That never happened. But yeah, no, it was like it
was as it was like it was one hundred years ago.
When I think about all all of those times, they
were like, here, become an alcoholic. It's so easy.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
We wanted, we want to make it happen as in
but when And it's like nowadays they're like, here, every
drink is fourteen fucking dollars, So you could only be
an alcoholic. But you're if you're rich as fuck, and
if you come anywhere near us with a cigarette, we're
gonna murder you, right you.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
It's like you have to be some kind of a
connoisseur these days to be an alcoholic, which I just
don't have the energy for. When you see an a
clock and you're like, oh, that guy must be rich, yes,
because you're buying drinks that have those huge ice ice
cubes in them that are like and they design her
ice cube and they measure everything so like, you're not
it's like an ounce and a half of alcohol. You're like,
it doesn't matter. I'm just gonna swallow it really fast,

(53:32):
like we're giving my dog a treat where she I
look at George and go, please, just chew this twice,
like please, and just go. Like I'll give her leftover
steak from like a dinner we were at and I
hold it out and she swallowed. She inhales it. She
doesn't even taste it. I'm like, bite it twice, You'll
love thee Elvis says that to the cookies. He sometimes
just swallows them. All the fucking alligators. Where were we?

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Yeah, a couple of people have the great idea that
this needs to me in mfm. Uh do you need
a ride crossover? So Chris Fairbanks is just driving us
to fucking Sacramento.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
You know, we could take the entire drive up to
Sacramento to explain to Chris Fairbanks what the entire case
is and what's happening anything.

Speaker 3 (54:15):
Oh, I never heard of this, and I don't care,
and I still don't care.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I'm not interested. I also would just like to say
this really quick. I know that Georgia posted our text
thread where I talked shit about Sacramento, and I just
want people to know. Lots of people texting and saying,
it's not like that anymore. Please come, You're gonna love it.
Blah blah blah. I hear you, I know it, And
is it him? I don't know? Hold on? Oh is

(54:39):
it okay? Is it okay that we're recording our podcast?
We need confirmation?

Speaker 4 (54:43):
Yes, I do want to be honest you guys.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
Yeah, yeah, we're seeing we're being real official, We're trying
to be real. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
We've said the word alleged fifteen fucking times.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yes, in the past two minutes. The police, the man
the police say is the Golden State Killer. How are you?
You must be so thrilled?

Speaker 4 (55:07):
Why what's going on today? Yeah? No, it's been a
it's been definitely a crazy day.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
Congratulations. I mean, how long have you been would you?
Oh shit, Stephen, give me that charture? How long would
you say you've been working on this case altogether?

Speaker 4 (55:26):
For me, not that long. It was only really after
she died.

Speaker 5 (55:30):
Okay, after Michelle died is when I started working on
an idea about it because I was friends with her
and I constantly would talk to her about it and
I read about it a lot, but it was really
only when she died and I started getting into it.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
So because you are professionally you are a crime reporter anyway,
I mean that's your whole this is your whole area, correct.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
Yeah, I'm an investigative crime journalist.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Yeah, so basically you just jumped in when you were needed.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (55:59):
When she when she passed, my first thought was of
the Golden State Killer.

Speaker 4 (56:04):
It wasn't you know.

Speaker 5 (56:05):
I knew other people would be thinking of Alice and
thinking of Pat and I was just like, well, did.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
This guy win?

Speaker 2 (56:11):
Right? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (56:12):
And then it was about the book, and it was
what can we do.

Speaker 5 (56:15):
I will do anything I can to make sure that
this book comes out because I want someone to do
that for me, because I know how much he worked
on it, you know, hours and hours and hours of
working on it. Yeah, that's that's what I That's what I.

Speaker 4 (56:28):
Made sure of.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
And did you watch this press conference they just gave
I did what'd you think?

Speaker 4 (56:37):
I don't necessarily know if I want to talk exactly
about what I.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Thought of Okay, a lot of it was very political.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
Yeah, I think they were definitely the DA's were definitely
all there, and they were covering.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
All their bases bass or asses, you know, and I
would have.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Liked to have seen the guys that were in the trenches.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah, it really worked on this case.

Speaker 6 (57:00):
Where was where was Paul Hols and Ken Clark and yeah,
you know Larry Pool or you know Crompton or Shelby
or Erica, you know those people that really worked it
on a day to day basis, that really took the
stuff home. I mean a lot of them did get mentioned,
but this was very much a political thing.

Speaker 5 (57:20):
They didn't tell us much. The two things that we
did hear one of them that said they kind of
buried a little bit and the press didn't exactly know
to follow up on it is that they confirmed that
he was the Massellia r ansacker, Right.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
They just like glazed over it.

Speaker 4 (57:35):
Yeah, the press didn't realize too.

Speaker 5 (57:38):
You know, they were more interested in whether he was
the guy from Australia because they obviously all googled Golden
State Killer.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
That was the first.

Speaker 5 (57:48):
So what about there was that also the fact that
that he was probably I would put money on the
fact that he was caught via.

Speaker 4 (57:57):
DNA pamelial DNA.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Really, yeah, it was from what they.

Speaker 5 (58:02):
Were saying was that, you know, they they were led.
The words that they were using was that they were
led to a certain area and.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
Then they had to eliminate people, which sounds like.

Speaker 5 (58:15):
They got a last name or they got somebody that
had enough characteristics and enough of the markers from that
DNA of the killer, and then they were able to
go through and then the detective work that you loved,
the detective work that they were doing was really just
saying that's not the guy, that's not the guy, eliminating
people over and over and over again, and then finally

(58:36):
getting into the guy they thought it was. And then
they you know, they remarked that they had to wait
for him. You know, they watched his activities or lack thereof,
which meant that he wasn't leaving the house. Oh, it
was feeling that he just was kind of a couch potato.
He was just kind of sitting there and they were
waiting for him to leave the house so they can
collect DNA. So they very well might have collected that DNA.

(58:58):
What they were calling discard a DM a off of
you know that the way they did it with the
grip sleeper was was off of a piece of piece and.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
I think, yes, that's right, or like collecting his trash,
like doing trash collection.

Speaker 5 (59:11):
Trash, but you don't really they probably didd someplace else
because trash you never know who it could be and
it gets a little messy for.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
Lack of a better termino.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
Right, Well, you know, that's what we were talking about,
is we are theory is that these cops, whatever they did,
they did it so carefully and so exactly and so
by the book to make sure that whatever they did
couldn't be like that would hold up entirely. I mean
that's a safe assumption, right I think so, yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
I mean they did go very fast. But you know,
when this was all breaking at two.

Speaker 5 (59:44):
In the morning my time, I uh, you know, I
was looking at it and I had just gotten a
text or.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
Somebody saying, hey, there's a press conference tomorrow. What's that about?

Speaker 5 (59:54):
And then just started digging and calling people or texting
people and emailing people. And once I talked to one
of the victims' families and they said that somebody did
contact them higher up in Sacramento contacted them and said, uh,
there is a suspect in custody.

Speaker 4 (01:00:10):
Then I knew, you know, to talk about it and
start talking about on Twitter and everything.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yes, And that's the one that gave me chills when
you talked about that, because to me, that's so real,
Like they wouldn't be leading people on if they didn't
think they had their guides.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
It seems to me that family is not gonna want
to wake up and they're not gonna want them to
wake up in the morning.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
We're not going to tell the family right, be ridiculously cruel.

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
Yes, And also one of the things that I was
what I was concerned about is that, well, if it's
if they have somebody in custody, maybe it's it's it's
like the majority murder, which is just too which there
wasn't DNA involved in uh, and that potentially could not
be the East Area rapist, but we all think it

(01:00:53):
was and we we consider that as part of the
you know, in the Canada.

Speaker 4 (01:00:56):
The murders. But you know, once they told.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
The family member that I talked to, and then I
got a confirmation that a from another law.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Enforcement source, I was like, all right, this is this
is real. We can run with it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Yeah, it's so cool. And now is that a thing
you deal with sometimes where you suspect things or things
start coming down the pipe, but you have to wait
for those certain moments to actually run with it, like
do you know all those Oh, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
So much.

Speaker 5 (01:01:24):
You know, I don't do it as much as I
used to do when I worked at newspapers. So when
you're working in newspapers, you always had to get it
and obviously get two confirmations. You can't just run with
one confirmation, and that's always you know, you're seeing less
and less of that now, right, Yeah, you have to
do that, and otherwise you're just running. You know, you're
you're potentially running something.

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
That is not not real.

Speaker 5 (01:01:47):
Yeah, that's that's the worst thing you can do as
a journalists, other than completely.

Speaker 4 (01:01:51):
Making something up.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Is there is there a question or like a fact
you're really looking forward to having confirm or answered or
anything like that that you're just excited about or already Yeah,
you know there's a lot.

Speaker 5 (01:02:07):
Of them that are the sort of parlor game questions
like was that your homework?

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yes, we've already and.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
Was that your dog? Because you know that those kind
of things. Yeah, but I really want to know what
other victims there were.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
I'm sure he had other victims, particularly sexual assault victims.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
And that's one of the things that I taught.

Speaker 5 (01:02:28):
It was just on the phone with Paul Haynes, the
researcher from the book, and that's what we talked about,
and I said, you know, go, you know, if you
if you're born tonight, you know, go and start looking
up the places that he was. Let's start building a
timeline on this guy and start seeing reports of sexual
assaults because they didn't take you know, they didn't take

(01:02:49):
rape kits all.

Speaker 4 (01:02:50):
The time you're in sexual assaults.

Speaker 5 (01:02:51):
And this guy might have gone here or there on
a summer camp was who knows what he was doing
at the time.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Yeah, with all them moving around, Yeah, I.

Speaker 5 (01:03:00):
Think there's definitely gonna be while it looks like he
really did stick around in the Golden State. Really was
the Golden State killing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
He bucking stayed in Citrus Heights. I mean, like it's
so crazy. He stayed in the right in the center
of the of the bulls, of the bullseye of the
fucking dart board. Yeah, but how cocky of him, I.

Speaker 4 (01:03:20):
Mean, well, he was comfortable, you know, he was comfortable there.

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:24):
I think that's one of the main.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Reasons why he would do what he did and why
he would only strike certain neighborhoods because he came he
became comfortable in those neighborhoods.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Yeah, are there any pieces right now? Like for me,
there's a million that you're like, oh that makes sense,
Like any of those little answers that are little questions
that are being answered now that you know that he's
either a cop, or he's local, or he stayed there
or he's still alive.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
The cop, the cop thing.

Speaker 5 (01:03:47):
I always thought that he had a scanner, right, Yeah,
because of the way that he knew where the patrols
were when they started amping up the patrols and he
would attack at other locations.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
I thought he had a scanner.

Speaker 5 (01:03:57):
I didn't think he had the scanner. He had a
police scanner because he was an actual policeman. That's going
to be the other shoe to drop in terms of
it's really going to be up to local law media,
somebody at the sack be to figure out what he
was doing as a police officer.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
Why.

Speaker 5 (01:04:16):
I mean, think about this, and this is think about
how big of a red flag this is? You're a cop,
you get arrested for shopping when you get accused and.

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
You weren't arrested.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
You get accused for shoplifting dog repellant and a hammer,
and they say, all right, we're going to do a
disciplinary hearing and everything like that, and no police union
comes to your aid and you don't fight it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
You just said all right, I'm done.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
I'm done that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:42):
You never see that happening.

Speaker 5 (01:04:43):
That should have been a red flag to say, why
does he not want people looking into his background?

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Do you know what year that happened in the shoplifting
and then disciplinary hearing?

Speaker 4 (01:04:55):
It was the seventies. I think it was.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Obviously we're probably right if that was the year he
was out of the Auburn unities, so maybe seven.

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
What about.

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
I mean, I wonder if that disciplinary thing, they were like,
you have all these other points against you, we'll have
someone look into it, or you can just quietly resign
and we won't look at it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:16):
Honestly, I think that could be something there, and I
think it was. You know, they didn't because it was
so political. The guys on the ground, the boots on
the ground, the real detectives, they would say, oh my god,
this was this was one of ours, or it was
somebody that was like us, and they would be upset
and want to know it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Yeah, the political people weren't going to mention it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
They didn't really mention it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
You didn't really hear about it that this was a former.

Speaker 5 (01:05:41):
Copah, how many times was he potentially caught while he
was doing his patrols, meaning his patrols, his nighttime patrols,
his East area rapist patrols and slashed a badge?

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Yes, exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:05:56):
You know, was he potentially in thought when he was
in the sale and he apparently was a police officer
at Exeter, which was about ten miles or eleven miles
from Visalia.

Speaker 4 (01:06:06):
Was he involved in any of the investigations?

Speaker 5 (01:06:08):
I mean, these are all the this is the other
shoe that's going to drop in terms of who could
have stopped him when I'm interested more in what other
crimes he might have convicted and getting answered he might
have thought committed excuse me, and getting answers from those.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
But the other thing is going to.

Speaker 5 (01:06:24):
Be like, you know, could we have caught him, and
you know, was it a good old boys. Never Obviously,
if he was a cop, he knew cop Lengo. He
knew names of other people. So if somebody pulled him over,
or if somebody said, what are you doing in this neighborhood?
He could drop names, he could drop Lengo. He could
just say I'm doing this or this. And I am
sure that that happened a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (01:06:45):
Yeah, absolutely, no way that it didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:06:47):
You know, he was doing everything he could have survive,
and that would have been in one of his one
of his tricks.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
Totally.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
One of the things I noticed mentioned and read it of,
like why it was weird in the beginning is that
he's a little older than and what was originally thought
everyone was calling him a teenager. Do you think that
there's probably was there a Do you think there was
a trigger that made him start in his late twenties
early thirties, which is pretty old to start these things,
or do you think there's stuff that goes way far back.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
That we're going to find out about him.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
That he was.

Speaker 5 (01:07:15):
I think we're going to find out about something I do,
but not at that scope.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
And obviously he didn't know about.

Speaker 5 (01:07:23):
DNA, so he was leaving his deposits everywhere, you know,
So I think there's gonna be there's gonna be little
things here and there, but not at the scope.

Speaker 2 (01:07:31):
Like pre Visailia ransacker.

Speaker 4 (01:07:34):
Yeah, yeah, why did you know? Obviously?

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
Yeah, I mean we saw, you know, he was doing
the ransacking and that was you know, and he was
taking stuff and then he wanted to.

Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
Amp it up.

Speaker 5 (01:07:42):
Yeah, And it was all about It's all about power
for him. First it was the power of I'm in
your house. Second is the power up. I'm in your
house and I'm taking your stuff. It's the power up.
I'm in your house and I'm taking your body. And
then the fourth one was I'm in your I'm going
to kill you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Yeah, as the fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Also, I think it'd be interesting like if they're finding
or they will find things happening in Auburn, cold cases,
cold rape cases, stuff where if he was a police
person in Auburn and like, was there a woman that
came forward that was like a police officer raved to
me but I don't know who it was and they

(01:08:21):
just didn't do anything about it. Like obviously it's the
worst case scenario, but it's that I just keep thinking
of that kind of thing. Where I wonder if he
was able to control himself to save it, to go
into Sacramento or into the East area to do it
and then come home and stay safe that way, or
if it's spilled out onto like wherever he lived in Auburn.

Speaker 5 (01:08:42):
Yeah, I mean, I have a feeling it didn't spill out.
I mean, this is just pure conjecture, but.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
That's what it all is.

Speaker 4 (01:08:51):
Yeah, but I.

Speaker 5 (01:08:52):
Think that that there might have been certain ways that
he might have made somebody feel uncomfortable.

Speaker 4 (01:08:57):
But for the most part.

Speaker 5 (01:08:58):
Now, I mean, he was just like sort of like
an upstanding citizen and he did his thing, and everybody
thought he was a fairly nice guy. But I didn't
know him that that well, you know, I mean, are
we going to see you know, the fact that they
were they commented so often, and listen, what are you
gonna do when you're watching just people bring out boxes

(01:09:18):
from a guy's house.

Speaker 4 (01:09:20):
Are those boxes of all the stuff that he stole
from those houses?

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
Yes?

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
Like direct evidence?

Speaker 4 (01:09:26):
Yeah, that's a question. Did he have a trophy room?

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Of course he did, of course he did, right, I
don't know, And we're not talking golf trophies over here,
and trophies.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
Obviously we are.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
We are talking. We're talking the trophies he took from
his victims.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
The China cabinet.

Speaker 5 (01:09:43):
What are you really what are you really taking from there?
I know you take a lot of stuff because you're
also wondering. You want to you know, they're they're gonna
they're gonna, you know, doubt every I cross every t
so you want to make sure that you're going to
cover everything.

Speaker 4 (01:09:55):
And he could he.

Speaker 5 (01:09:57):
Who knows, he could have been doing something bad now,
but you know what, what were they taken out of there?

Speaker 4 (01:10:01):
I think that's it gonna be a good question.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
Well, what I always thought was so creepy was the
I mean, and this is just such a mind fuck
the way he would take something from one crime scene
and a couple months later leave it at another, which
means he was holding on to stuff. There was a
place where he was keeping it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:17):
Yeah, yeah, no, that was That's that's weird, you know,
And there's there's a lot of weird questions that are
going to be out there. Why'd you bring the TV
into the backyard, right, you know? And and all these.

Speaker 4 (01:10:30):
Things that that we've that we've.

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
Gone round and round about and wondered about the diamond
knots and there's evidence. I think I think I saw
somebody posted a picture of him in the navy.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
Was that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Yeah, that's right, and those not.

Speaker 4 (01:10:44):
I haven't been on social We've just been doing a
bunch of stuff here.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
So it's getting real fun on social. I bet so
you are you guys? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
I mean I kissed, can't imagine.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
So last night you guys had this, but we were talking.
It was four in the morning when we were talking
to you, right, Yes, I.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Did not realize that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:03):
Sorry, sorry, Yeah, last night we were we were in Chicago.
We went to Naperville because Gillian Flynn was talking to myself, Patton,
and Paul about the book. Kind of it's you know,
Gillian is from here and she's the woman that wrote
you A Girl on the Train.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
And Gone Girl and stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:11:24):
And then there was also, you know, it was kind
of close to where she grew up Michelle did, so
Michelle's family was there. We had a great talk about
the case. We said, you know, people like you really
think it's going to be solved, and we said, yeah,
this is going to be solved.

Speaker 4 (01:11:39):
I have no doubt this is going to be solved.

Speaker 5 (01:11:42):
Because of the DNA you know, mine is I don't
think Zodiac potentially could be solved. I wouldn't say that
I would put money on it. But if we have
DNA of somebody that's not you know, you can't fake that.
So then we we were all just pretty white. We
we went home, uh, back to Chicago and stayed in
the hotel and for some reason I woke up to

(01:12:03):
a text, you know, like two in the morning or.

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
Something or one in the morning, and I just started
from there.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
I mean, can you was it like a stomach drop?
Was it an out loud gasp? Was it like did
you just get cold? What was that? What was your
reaction in that moment?

Speaker 5 (01:12:21):
Well, the first reaction was earth is a press conference?
Or well, what's that going to be about?

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
You know? Here?

Speaker 5 (01:12:28):
Yeah, you know it's always going to be is this
real or not. One of the things that I keep
telling people is that once I confirmed it, So my
my first thing was about confirming it. And that's just
my journalist of instincts said I want to confirm this thing.
After I confirmed it, and then I'm like, all right,
I confirmed it, and I put out some tweets and
I told everybody. And I wasn't going to tell Patent

(01:12:52):
yet because Patten was like super tired last night. So
I was like, all right, I'm not going to wake
the little guy up.

Speaker 4 (01:12:59):
But I was like, I'm to grab him right at
like five right. So uh. But then I because we
had a.

Speaker 5 (01:13:05):
Very early flight, so I was sitting there all alone
in this you know, bed of their bed and before
and I'm just I started thinking and questioning my consciousness
of whether I was dreaming or not. I was really
wondering whether this was a dream. And it was like, wait,
I was at a you know, it was weird. I
had the weirdest dream last night. I was in Chicago.

(01:13:25):
It was in the suburbs, and then Gillian Flynn was there.
We didn't eat dinner, but they gave us brownies and
I ate the brownie on the way home, and I
was like going through all this stuff, It's like, well
was this And then I got a call that, you know,
a text message that there's a press conference, and I
was wondering whether this was really a dream or not.

Speaker 4 (01:13:44):
And then we were both doing it, me and Patton.

Speaker 5 (01:13:46):
When we were sitting at the airport waiting for the
plane to board, and we were both saying the same thing.

Speaker 4 (01:13:51):
It's like, if we wake up and we're back in
the hotel, this is.

Speaker 2 (01:13:57):
What was in those brownies? Yeah, exactly when someone does.

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
People think there was anything. I think it was actually fudge.
It was brownie.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
So it's just such a fast It just feels like this,
you guys being on the book tour like it's so
it's such a fast turnaround for the way this kind
of like it built and I feel like everyone was
prepared for this to go on for so much longer.

Speaker 4 (01:14:21):
No, there was no built in this that it was
twelve hours, you know.

Speaker 5 (01:14:25):
Yeah, that's one of the reasons when we were talking
about it, and I was trying to think of what
Michelle would feel, and you know, there would she would
be feeling what the.

Speaker 4 (01:14:34):
Like to calm down right about now?

Speaker 5 (01:14:36):
Yeah, where you know, and we have talked about that
is what are you going to do.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
With your you know, when you finally catch the.

Speaker 5 (01:14:43):
Guy and this was your first, you'd never forget your first,
this was your obsession. If you are able to get
answered to that, what are you going to do next?
And I wanted that to happen because I wanted her
to work on other cases with her. Yeah, and I
conferently have and my own investigations. I kind of instantly
have fifteen to twenty going at the same time because

(01:15:03):
I'm doing street crimes, I'm doing ones that you know,
are a little bit more easier to solve, and they're
not They're not some fromantasized as much as as.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
Somebody like this is.

Speaker 5 (01:15:15):
Yeah, but it uh, you know, I think she would
have that sort of come down and just kind of
you know, sit alone in a room and say like, well,
what you know, what happens now? I think there wo'd
definitely be things like she would be like, god, damn it,
he was the Missilian Ransackers.

Speaker 1 (01:15:28):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:15:29):
She went back and forth on that one, and so
did Paul and so not because you know, he had
that stocky body, you know, they would say that he
had that cherubic face. Yeah, so that he obviously I'm
really interested to see what his pictures look like during
the Ransacker phase than versus the ear phase, because I
think he probably lost some weight because they kept on
talking about how he had this moon face, this baby fit.

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Yeah, and then.

Speaker 5 (01:15:53):
He ended up, you know, with face that was very
kind of lean or at least you know what people
can see of it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:59):
When we were talking about the year, Yeah, it's a
real it's a different those because there was there's one
picture of him as a cop with a mustache that
looks like it's from the late seventies, and he looks
so different than that navy picture or any of those
younger pictures, Like he does not have that stuff on
his face. He did. He doesn't have the width to

(01:16:19):
his face.

Speaker 3 (01:16:20):
He looks very lanky, but it looks like one of
the sketches, the older sketch with a mustache.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
Yes, dude, Yeah, no, I.

Speaker 5 (01:16:28):
Think that's that's probably what happened. And obviously he grew
the mustache after a while. Maybe he grew it to
kind of hide himself. Yeah, you know, but I think
I think he lost some weight and he what he
was doing was strenuous too, you know, I mean, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
You've got to be in shape for that to.

Speaker 5 (01:16:46):
See what he you know, turned into you know what
happened where you couldn't let yourself go huh.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
The cops were.

Speaker 5 (01:16:54):
Sort of like waiting outside for him, saying, or it's
gonna move or what, because you know, they were trying
to collect collect something from him, and obviously he wasn't moved.

Speaker 2 (01:17:03):
So crazy crazy you know what I keep picturing like
when they were talking at the at the press conference,
and I understand, like the da Amory was kept saying
like this is the detective's work and whatever. But what
I like to picture is like Michelle was just this
bossy lady that kept showing up and being like, yeah,
but I need to write about this, so could you
guys get it together? Like she just kept going to

(01:17:25):
places and being like I need you to prioritize this,
We need to this needs to matter more to people,
and like, so, yes, the credit fully goes to those
detectives because they were always there and they had to
work on it and whatever, but there is that like,
you know, I don't know, I feel like we all
know the credit goes to like the fucking mouthy broad

(01:17:46):
that gets in there and goes you guys seriously, like
do something about this.

Speaker 4 (01:17:51):
No, And the fact that they called in the Golden
State Killer, which they wouldn't have called him if not
for Michelle.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
All right, yeah, that's how.

Speaker 4 (01:17:57):
They referred to him as. And then the you know
that they're saying, oh, that. You know, the book didn't
have anything to do with it. Yeah, the book just.

Speaker 5 (01:18:05):
Came out the article though a long time ago, and
the article got everybody buzzing in circles and got people
like you guys interested in it, and it became part
of the lore of people would bring up you know,
when people were mentioning certain serial killers, they would bring

(01:18:25):
up this guy. And nobody ever talked about this guy before.
You know, this guy had one unsolved Mysteries episode. Yeah,
and you know it really was very.

Speaker 4 (01:18:34):
Very low on anybody's radar until she came along and
really really boosted it. It's not about the book.

Speaker 5 (01:18:41):
It really was about her doing you know, you know,
constantly being on you know, writing about it or TV
shows are blogging, and then the article coming out and
then all these people coming you know, like her selling
her life rights because they thought.

Speaker 4 (01:18:55):
It was so interesting and all that jazz.

Speaker 5 (01:18:57):
Yeah, you know, that's you know, does the test sports
happened without her putting that case back into the spotlight,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
And does she and does she have the kind of
uh like engine to go forward if it wasn't for Also,
all those other data miners online that were super dedicated
and doing the same thing she was doing, just not
actually going anywhere. But like the people that, like when
we were talking about Paul looking through every single or

(01:19:25):
I think it's in the book, Actually it's you know,
when he was the one that had already looked through
every year book, or he'd already there's there's just been
people who have truly been dedicating themselves to the minutia
of this case like a police person would, except they
haven't been paid. They've just been doing it out of
the passion.

Speaker 3 (01:19:41):
And the people who who who the victims are willing
to speak to, like someone who's super empathetic and wonderful
like Michelle, because they've been waiting so long for the
detectives to give them an answer, and they don't want
to wait any longer. They speak with Michelle, and that
kind of reinvigorates them into pushing the detective to keep
looking into the cases exactly exactly.

Speaker 5 (01:20:03):
One of the things that I really hope is that
everybody that was working on this case that were data
mining and everything, they go find some other ones. Yes,
you know, go use those skills. This was this this
was your training wheels, and this was one of your
first ones. Now go in and solve one of the
other two hundred thousand unsolved murders that are out there.
That's one thing that I'm working on. I'm writing a

(01:20:23):
book right now and it's about the cases that I've
been able to solve as working as a consulting detective,
consulting digital detective, whatever you want to call me. But
the uh, you know, the fact that we are entering
an age where we're going to have the most educated retirees.

Speaker 4 (01:20:41):
We have ever seen in the baby bapers.

Speaker 5 (01:20:44):
These are people that can just that want to help,
and there's also millennials that want to help.

Speaker 4 (01:20:50):
There's also baby members that want to help.

Speaker 5 (01:20:52):
And what I'm doing is I'm creating sort of a
system and going.

Speaker 4 (01:20:57):
To do a pilot program somewhere where some police depart.
Everyone wants to do it.

Speaker 5 (01:21:00):
We'll just open it up, you know, screen people, make
sure they're good.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
Yep, say them.

Speaker 5 (01:21:06):
They'll have their own computers and they'll just go in
and be able to do this stuff. And yes there
is a chain of command, yes there is. They will
only get you so far and then the police have
to take over. But when you're looking for a needle
in a Haystack. You can get them to that needle,
and then you just have to prove that that needle
is guilty.

Speaker 4 (01:21:23):
These murders are just piling up.

Speaker 5 (01:21:26):
Yeah, it's five thousand new on solid murders every year,
and they're just calling on top of each other. You
might hear about, oh this murder, Okay, we just we
just cleared twelve. You know from a few different years.
There's so many that are out there, and you know,
there are a lot of smart people now that want
to help that we should be able to work with
them and have law enforcement.

Speaker 4 (01:21:46):
So that's one of the big projects that I'm working
on right now.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
That's amazing, Billy, such a good idea.

Speaker 3 (01:21:51):
Sign us the fuck up because we're signing Steven up right,
And I'm really bad at research, but I have a
lot of passions and I'm fun to drink coffee with.

Speaker 5 (01:22:01):
Right, you got hired, you guys, just bring the coffee
and wine, and you know, everybody's got to play their part.

Speaker 2 (01:22:06):
Yeah, maybe we do it like Sunday nights. It's not
a game night, it's just prime solving night. Sure that
we all do.

Speaker 5 (01:22:12):
It's kind of similar to that. I mean, the thing
that I'm talking about is a little more.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
Serious than that.

Speaker 5 (01:22:16):
But yeah, I mean you're going to see a lot
of that. I think people want to want to get involved,
and they're not going to be the sexiest cases. You know,
They're going to be cases that you know, we you know,
this one in particular was so interesting just because there's
so many clues.

Speaker 4 (01:22:31):
There was almost too many clues, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:22:34):
And it really became like something that could have been
a really intricate board game.

Speaker 4 (01:22:41):
Or Choose your Own Adventure or something. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
I think it's also oh, just that there's a beautiful
aspect to it of like we a lot of times
talk about the problems in the police, police not talking
to each other, you know, all that kind of the
zodia are, Yeah, when they don't want to share information,
but we're it's like real time, we're watching as the

(01:23:05):
DNA evidence like develops, as all these different new technologies develop.
There's also the consciousness of detectives and these people who
are starting to understand how they have to change and
they're doing it. And I think there's part of that
that's so hopeful and beautiful. You know, Like even just
in that the Golden State special that was on a

(01:23:27):
d where they're kind of talking about that changing their
approach so that these things can get solved.

Speaker 5 (01:23:34):
It's a matter of numbers, and it's not like we're
getting a bunch more detectives.

Speaker 4 (01:23:40):
So if you're adding five thousand murders.

Speaker 5 (01:23:42):
Every year that are unsolved, you're not adding five thousand
new detectives. Well, and what happens with these detectives is
is that they might be working on a cold case,
so they might be working on a case that happened
two weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (01:23:53):
Then they catch another.

Speaker 5 (01:23:54):
Murder, meaning they have another murder that they need to
go solve and that other one has to to.

Speaker 4 (01:24:00):
Take a back seat.

Speaker 5 (01:24:01):
Yeah, and you know, the idea of the professional detective
has only been around for like one hundred.

Speaker 4 (01:24:07):
And fifty years. Before it was it was.

Speaker 5 (01:24:10):
You know, different people that were actually solving these murders,
and they weren't necessarily professional detectives.

Speaker 2 (01:24:16):
And Pinkerton's yeah, well.

Speaker 5 (01:24:19):
Even though before that, you know, it was been before
that there were you know police, you know, real police
squads that were out there.

Speaker 4 (01:24:28):
You know, the police were created not to solve solve crimes.

Speaker 5 (01:24:30):
They were really created to keep the peace and stop
riots and stuff like that.

Speaker 7 (01:24:34):
Wow.

Speaker 5 (01:24:35):
So you know, I think that you're going to see
something along those lines in some place, and it's going
to be like community policing. But it's not going to
be you know, walking the streets and doing uh, guardian
angel type stuff. It's going to be a little bit
more of that data mining variety and using the skill
that you have in your in your neck.

Speaker 4 (01:24:54):
Of the woods.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
It's so cool. Thank you so much for calling us, Billy.
It is amazing to talk to you on a day
like this.

Speaker 5 (01:25:00):
Yeah, you're welcome, guys, and hello to all the murderingos
out there.

Speaker 4 (01:25:06):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
Keep in touch please so much.

Speaker 5 (01:25:09):
I mean, if there was one thing that you mean,
you guys have such a powerful platform to talk to people,
and you guys are one of the biggest things that
are going on at True Crime right now.

Speaker 4 (01:25:18):
And it's great to see you guys. I don't know
if you guys know this or not.

Speaker 5 (01:25:21):
But I went to see you at Upright Citizen's Brigade
once thirty people there, forty people.

Speaker 2 (01:25:26):
There was that the Cracked podcast with Jack O'Brien.

Speaker 4 (01:25:29):
No, no, no, no, it was like you guys were
just there. I think Margaret Show was there.

Speaker 2 (01:25:33):
Yeah, that was Jamie. Oh awesome. Wait did we met
beforehand at the restaurant though, right?

Speaker 4 (01:25:41):
We did?

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
You came in said Hi, yes, that's right.

Speaker 4 (01:25:44):
Yeah, so uh yeah, you know, I know that.

Speaker 5 (01:25:48):
You know, there's a lot of people that are out
there that just are learning a lot from your from
the stuff that you're talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:25:55):
They can look in the cases.

Speaker 5 (01:25:56):
What I say is like, look into that one hometown
case that you've got, just u and if you are
happen to be a victim or a family of a victim,
you know, squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Speaker 4 (01:26:06):
That's certainly one of the things that happened here.

Speaker 5 (01:26:08):
If you see what Debbie Domingo was doing, you know,
she was constantly calling and trying to get information. And
if if you've got a crime that happened, at violent
crime that happened, just keep calling the police. Don't lose hope.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
Awesome, amazing, Thank you so much, Billy. Okay, we'll talk
to you, so talk to you soon. Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
I guess that's so incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:26:29):
If that was rad what a get that felt like
a real news, a real news situation. I have to say,
maybe even close it up.

Speaker 3 (01:26:38):
But I'm like honored that we get to be a
voice in the background of this. And like Michelle McNamara,
as we've I've been, we've been such a fan of hers,
a fangirl of a fangirl crime and like, I'm just
honored that we got to even talk about this.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
What a yeah, what a magical thing that in real time.
Not it's not like twenty years from now where we
get back together to talk about that they finally found
the guy or they finally figured out who it is.
It's just like, this is shocking, it's thrilling, and yeah,
kudos to fucking Michelle McNamara and her.

Speaker 4 (01:27:18):
It.

Speaker 2 (01:27:19):
Like people keep using the phrase of dogged persistence, but
I think there's something. It's it's like this righteousness and
this like kind of call for justice that I think
we all feel. And I think most people are good
in that way where they don't want other people to
suffer like this. Yeah, and that's what's cool. It's like

(01:27:40):
all those people at that press conference, everybody that's talking
about it, everybody is just like, no more of this shit,
no more pretending right doesn't matter, No more pretending that
you that you know all these weird old things are
really going by the wayside, these old attitudes, all that
kind of stuff, and it's like building a new fucking tomorrow.

(01:28:01):
As corny as that sound, I agree, and.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
It is this.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
What was I gonna say, Oh, it's gonna be great? Well,
do you want me to say really quickly? I was
when Billy called, I was just trying to say, people
in Sacramento now who are loving Sacramento and want to
defend Sacramento, you don't have to because I get towns
change whatever, but I also get to have my opinion
about this. The very short amount of time that I
suffered greatly in that town. Every day I was suffering.

(01:28:28):
I was a goth in the summer. It sucked shit,
and I couldn't go anywhere and be happy. We're gonna work.
It doesn't mean anything about you, or your family or
your fucking grandparents.

Speaker 3 (01:28:38):
And we weren't even our we weren't even planning our
tour agent wasn't even planning on sending us to Sacramento.
And we insisted because it's become this running joke.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
Well because Sacramento mourn arenas are like showing up and
they're like they're like, come here, we love it. We
love you. So we love that. It's been so fun.
But you cannot change my mind about nineties Sacramento. I
think they love it.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
Oh, I know what I wanted to say, Yes, And
I love what I love about Reddit, about what about
this press conference? About I'm what I'm sure Michelle would
say is that no one is saying I knew it, I.

Speaker 2 (01:29:16):
Took credit for this. It's because I said this. I
said that it's this.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
It's wanted to be solved by so many people, and
that's so much bigger than anyone's ego. They wanted to
be solved for the victims and for the victims families
and friends, and to put an end to this fucking
monster and bring them to justice. Yeah, and so I
love that this fight is not for credit or being
the one who solves it, about justice. And I know

(01:29:44):
Michelle would be saying something to us along the lines
of no, no, no, it has nothing to do with it.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
You know, she would be.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
Demuring, and she would be rightfully so, giving a huge
amount of credit to the detectives who have worked on
this for years and years and you know, and wanted
just as much to solve this passionately as we did.

Speaker 2 (01:30:03):
Percent and the way that sheriff was saying at the beginning.
I wrote his name down, Scott Jones, my party friend,
Scott Jones, that he was saying in the beginning. He
when he became the sheriff, the person who was the
sheriff before him, was like, this case is huge and
important and you have to work on it. So there
are all those people that over the years when they
were just trying to go place to place with no technology,

(01:30:27):
with everything, was writing everything up by hand and putting
it into a file.

Speaker 3 (01:30:31):
I saw something that was like one page of files
from back then takes you know, three weeks for us
to like translate.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
That's so wrong.

Speaker 3 (01:30:41):
But you know what I mean, to put into a
computer to find a tiger computer, like one file takes
we have to Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
It just takes forever to make it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:49):
Maybe it's one.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
I don't know. It was great, but basically it takes
fucking forever, and it's tons of work. It was really
hard work back then work, and those people suffered. The
police who worked on it suffered too, Like they they're
the ones that had to go and and suffer by
not catching him and by meeting more victims and there's

(01:31:13):
so much. It just is so incredible that there gets
to be at least it's not closure, but it is
this like it's next steps. Yep, it's real next steps. Finally,
it's fucking finally. Fuck guys, thanks for listening. Let us
know what you think. Yeah this is really cool. Yeah
I'm thrilled, me too. All right, stay sexy, don't get murdered.

(01:31:36):
Bye bye Elvis, Do you want to cook it?

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
Are it is?

Speaker 2 (01:31:43):
Goodbye Ray