Ep 154 Ask The Erins (Again!)

Five years ago, we asked you all to ask us anything, and you delivered. We answered dozens of listener questions, like how we first met, our favorite quarantinis, where we were in our career journeys, and so many more. But in the years since that first “ask us anything”, a lot has changed for both of us! So we’re coming back to you with the answers to more of your probing questions, like “what disease names would make good person names?”, “where are you in the world these days?”, “if you could have only one sandwich for the rest of your life, what would it be?” and a million more, ranging from serious to silly and everywhere in between. Tune in for a non-stop, self-indulgent Ask the Erins!

Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3WwtIAu

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Hi, Hi, I'm Erin Well and I'm Erin Almond Updike
and this is this podcast will kill.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
You un conventional style.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, it feels really weird Erin. We're very It's very awkward.
It's very awkward. We have not recorded in this same
space since twenty eighteen.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yes, right before you left for Finland.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
That was six years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
It was like the very beginning of season two with
the last time that we were together in the same room.
It is very weird. I feel like more nervous. I know,
my cold sweating I.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
Put onto the owner, but probably not enough the same.
It's gonna be fun though, and unconventional a because we
are in the same place recording would be because this
is not our typical episode format case. You may have
noticed from the title of this episode, which we don't
know what it is yet, but it's going to be

(01:38):
something to the effect of ask the errands whatever it
is you want to ask them. And there are a
lot of things you wanted to ask us. Yeah, a
lot of a lot of things, which is thrilling.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Thank you so much to everybody who submitted your questions.
We read every single question. We are going to try
our best to answer as many of them as we
can today.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yes. Also, I just also want to say thank you
so much for all of your little comments too. They
made our.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Day absolutely, our week, our month, my year, lives yeah everything.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
It was amazing.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah. The last time we did this, the only time
we did this was in twenty nineteen, twenty nineteen, and
I think it's safe to say a lot has happened then.
And we're going to get into all of that and
all of your other questions. But before we do that,
it's quarantine. It's still quarantiny time.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Eron.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
What are we calling this one right now? We're drinking
just non alcoholic.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Non alcoholics mes cown nigronies. They're a little bit weird, no.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Lie, we tell it like it is on this podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
We didn't come up with a name for them. We're
drinking of plus e Burita.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
The Errands cheers, so I guess for the quarantini slash
plasy rita. The Errands like, drink whatever you like. What's
your favorite thing that you've been drinking lately?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
What's your favorite quarantini that we've ever made?

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Erin me, Yeah, this is a hard one. I erin
my I feel like my memory, in part because of
the podcast, is so overloaded that I cannot remember anything.
There was a really good peach whiskey one that I
made recently, but I think my go to answer for
that is the Gunneria one Burning Love.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
That's my go to too. Yeah, I mean so good,
it's good. Okay, it's great. Have a spicy marg.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah. I don't think we have any other podcast business,
I mean the usual. Our website exists, and it's got
some things on it like bookshop dot Org, affiliate account,
our Goodreads list a, all of our transcripts. It's got
sources for each and every one of our episodes, links
to music by Bloodmobile, Patreon, diat Say merch, We've got

(04:02):
some pretty cool merch, pretty big merch.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Probably more coming out soon, so check.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
It, check it.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, shall we get into some listener questions?

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Let's do it. Let's take a quick break and then
get started. It started.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
So we have our little listy here, so we're gonna
we're just gonna read through our little listy, shall we.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Megan and Audrey and several other people. This isn't a
real question because so we just combined a whole bunch
of them. They would like to know personal life updates
airin EIRIN five years ago. It was twenty nineteen. You
weren't living here where we are, in your beautiful house,
So tell us about your life.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Let's see. Okay, I'm going to try to be succynct
because I could talk about all I could talk about
all these questions at great length. But in twenty nineteen,
I quit my postdoc in Finland and you know, academia
just wasn't for me, bottom line. And then I moved
back to the US. I moved to Chicago initially, and

(05:35):
then when COVID hit, I drove out to Colorado to
meet up with a friend free grad school, a longtime
friend from grad school, and then uh, basically moved to Denver.
And now we're married.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
You guys, also, they are meant to be together. That's
what I'm going to say. Okay, it's a beautiful love story,
and we love it so much.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
We love you, John, love you John. Yes. So now
we've been in Denver since well John's been in Denver
since twenty twenty. I've moved fully the year after. And
now we have a dog who's toenails you're probably hearing
click on the floor of our sun room.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yep, he's great.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Yay, yeah, yay. What about you, Aaron? A lot has
happened for you.

Speaker 2 (06:25):
A lot has happened for me as well. Let's see,
I don't remember exactly when our first ask the Errands
came out. I want to say it was summer summer. Okay,
so in summer of twenty nineteen is when I had
my first kid. So I don't know if I had
one yet when we recorded.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
I don't know if you did.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
In any case, he's still here with us, and now
he's a giant kid, not a baby. And then I
finished med school. We moved from Illinois back to San Diego,
thrilled to be back there. I finished my whole residency,
which is good, wild that much time has passed. And

(07:02):
then I had another kid in a while back. Now
he's again a toddler and no longer a baby. And yeah,
that's like a short version of my life updates.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
It's great, it's great, right, I love it.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah, finished med school, finish residency, had two kids.

Speaker 1 (07:19):
Podcast podcast, yeah, podcast, All right, thanks for the question.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Yeah, what's next?

Speaker 1 (07:26):
Okay, So we have a question from Kashina Mackenzie, Maddie Ruby,
Chelsea and others. We love how many of the questions
were like very similar because we were like, okay, great,
you do want to know some things about us. Okay,
I'm just going to read one of these questions. It
seems like it's been years since we've heard what you've

(07:47):
both been up to professionally. Are either of you engaged
in any research, taking breaks working in your chosen fields
in the same vein What are your hopes for the
future academically or professionally? Ooh, I like that question. Hey,
any questions? Oh, I have to start. You don't have to.

Speaker 2 (08:04):
But so, I just finished my residency, which means I'm
done with all of the training part of my medical career,
and I am starting in clinical practice in family medicine
in like the next month or so, and then I'm
doing the podcast and that is that's that's the job
right now, and I'm hoping to be able to keep

(08:25):
doing both.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
So far, so good, Yeah, so far, so great. Yeah, Eric,
So I now my I guess my full time job.
I'm not doing any research anymore, any academia anymore at all.
I'm doing podcasts full time. Since twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yeah, what a beautiful year that was.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
It's great and hopes for the future academically or professionally.
I mean, honestly, I think we just want to keep
this podcast going as long as we possibly can. Yeah,
we love making it, and I think that we may
Maybe I'm jumping ahead, and there is a question for
like how long do you think that this podcast can
keep going? But every year the list grows longer and longer,

(09:06):
thanks in large part also to listeners who write in
and say, hey, can you cover this? Hey can you
cover that? So I really just want to keep being
able to do science communication forever and always.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, we really love getting to make this so that's
a big part of our current and future career. Yes, yes, okay,
I love this. Next question Catherine S and.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
Jackie Jackie Jackie love you.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
They asked kind of similar questions. Did a certain person
in your life inspire you to follow the science path
or were you always drawn to it even as a
little kid.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I think I was always drawn to it. I mean
it kind of went from medical to biology at different points.
I watched Beakman's World growing up. Oh my god, I
forgot about that show. Yeh, I totally watched that show.
I loved Beacon's World, like a lot of Bill Nye
Bill Nye. I had like a vet kit and like

(10:02):
a doctor kit and everything, and I would pretend to, like,
you know, treat my dogs and stuff. But no, I
think even in high school, I was drawn to the
field of science and biology in particular. And I don't
know if it was like great teachers or just the
idea of understanding how the world works around us.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
But yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean same. I've always been
a science nerd. Yeah, I'm gonna my friend, good friend
Jackie that I've been friends with since middle school, asked
one of these questions, so I'm gonna shout out to
my roots of just how nerdy we were in high
school during our ap bio class, which like, first of all,
you're taking ap bio, you're probably a nerd. Love it,

(10:42):
And we were, and we used to have study groups
together and we wanted to make t shirts that said
hydrogen bonds Rule the World, because that's how amazed I
was when I learned about hydrogen bonds. Like still to
this day when I think about them, I get very excited.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Can we make those t shirts. That would be awesome.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Actually, it's been a dream since high school. So yeah,
I have always been a science nerd for sure.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Love that. Love that. This next question kind of follows
up with that. So, like we talked about what science
nerds we were as kids, but Aisha, Jess, Nicole, Kelly, Daisy,
and Maggie want to know if there was a particular
moment or experience in our lives that made us realize
that we wanted to pursue the careers that we have.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah. I totally have that. So I was definitely like
a science nerd from the beginning, went into undergrad wanting
to do aquatic biology marine biology, fully expected I was
going to be a shark biologist. I was like all in.
And it was a particular class. I feel like I've
told this story so many times, Sorry if it's boring

(11:51):
at this point, but a particular class on the ecology
of parasites that one hundred percent rocked my world made
me interested in the field of diseases and epidemiology, and
that is what led me down the path eventually of
Masters in Public Health and an mdphd. And everything that

(12:12):
has come of that has been that class.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, Yeah, Ecology of Parasites.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
It was such a good class. If you're at UCMB
and it's still there, please take it.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I had wanted to go into nursing initially when I
was an undergrad, and then I had to take as
part of that an intro to microbiology course And it
was at eight am Monday Wednesday Friday, and I had
to ride my bike up this hill, which is probably
not that big of a hill because it was like
central Kentucky. But I found myself not sleeping in and

(12:45):
actually wanting to go to this class and not missing
a class, which I was sometimes known to do with
other classes. And so I switched my major to biology,
being like, I want to know more about the world
of microbiology. I want to know all about these diseases.
And then I also just started to become more interested
in the human impact when I joined a plague lab

(13:05):
studying your cineapestis, and I wanted this big picture view
of like, but how has plague affected things on a
landscape scale and then throughout history? And then that led
me into my master's in epidemiology, and that's when I
was like, but what about the environment? What is that?
What role does that play? And that is when I
did disease ecology, and then of course in later in

(13:29):
our which we'll get talked probably a little bit more
about later, but at the end of our PhDs, we
were like science communication, like, how can we actually talk
about this stuff in a way that is fun for us?

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah? I feel like that gets into another question that
several of you asked, including Jess, Nicole and Kelly, which
was like, what was the most pivotal moment of your
academic or professional careers and why? And I feel like
Aaron years is like really good?

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Is it? I wonderful for thinking of the same pivotal moment.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, so okay, your pivotal moment changed both of our careers. Yeah, okay, yeah, okay,
like Aaron has changed our lives.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Aaron has changed our lives as well. No, yes, it
was okay. So in November of twenty eighteen, I moved
to Finland to start my postdoc and I really enjoyed
the work there. I liked that the research. My postdoc
advisor was phenomenal, really wonderful person. But I had gone

(14:33):
back in February a few months later to uh Texas
to go to my friend's wedding and I had such
a great time and like hanging out, meeting up with
people that I hadn't, like, you know, been around for
a number of years. And I was getting on the
plane back to Finland and I was thinking to myself,
what am I going back to? And I loved the

(14:55):
like I was intrigued by the research. I thought it
was fascinating, but it was the constant sort of cycle
of writing grants, writing papers, analyzing the data, always having
to get that you know, get that thing in having
all of a million deadlines, and I just did not
connect with that at all. And I thought there's got
to be something else. I can't do this forever, and

(15:16):
so I quit my post doc and I was like, Okay,
I'll do the podcast in the meantime for like a
little bit, and then I'll find something else. And then
that has now been five years.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
Yeah, I feel like I mean, when we decided to
make this podcast in twenty seventeen, we did not ever
anticipate that it could become our careers. But there was
a point at which and it was during this time
when you were like, I don't really want to be
doing this. Could we make this podcast something that is
viable as our careers. And at the same time, I

(15:49):
was still in medical school and knowing that things were
only going to get busier, and I was like, I
want to keep making this podcast, but I can't do
it the way that we've been doing it because it
was just too much of a burden for both of
us to keep doing what we are doing. And so
by you then deciding to take that leap of quitting

(16:10):
your like stable, real academic job and becoming the podcast
full time, it has allowed for this podcast to still exist.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
So it has.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Literally changed both of our lives for the better. Like
it's phenomenal, and I it's it.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Is it is. I will say, like it is still
surreal to me every single time that like this is
what we get to do.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
I know it is.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
It is the best thing. It is the best thing,
and like you know, any job is a job, right,
I'm not saying that, like every day is wonderful and
I'm never annoyed at having to take quarantine pictures or
whatever it is, but it is the it's like finding
that thing that I connect with and I am able
to feel fulfilled about has been It's been an incredible

(16:55):
experience I love it. And also, my friend Katie was
the one whose wedding I went to in February of
twenty nineteen, and if you listened to our lactose intolerance episode,
she provided the first hand account, which is still one
of my all time favorite, one of the best first
hand accounts. Such a great storyteller, It's amazing. Oh I

(17:16):
love it. Okay, So I love this next question because

(17:37):
I feel like a piggybacks onto that and I want
to know your answer to this too, especially Aaron. So
Daisy asked, do you currently have the career you thought
you'd have when you first applied to college? Like not?
I didn't know, absolutely not. Like short answer, no, what
did you think you wanted to be when you went
into college? In college?

Speaker 2 (17:57):
I wanted to be a shark biologist?

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Right, Okay, it's like day one.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Yeah, uh, at least as much as I can remember, Like,
I don't remember if there was any other specifics of like, No,
I wanted to study sharks. I wanted to be a
shark biologist. Wow, so this is not what I expected
to be doing. I specifically told my mother after freshman
year that I would never go to med school. So

(18:22):
of course, I didn't need to take all three quarters
of OKEM, so I took a summer course instead and
she was like okay, and I was like, I'm never
going to grad school.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
I'm never.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
I thought I was never going to go to grad
school and be a shapologist. I didn't know what I
was doing, but I definitely thought I would never go
to med school. And now like I am, I am
done with residency.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
You're an MdeR doctor doctor mdphd.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
So no, I do not have the job that I expected,
and I'm very happy about that.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, what about you? No not, I'm yeah. I didn't
know science communication existed until after we were doing the
podcast for a year. Yeah yeah, uh no, I when
I remember it, when I applied to the University of
Kentucky for undergrad which is where I ended up going,
I put in my major as a double major of
anthropology and English.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Oh wow, right, that's even different than nursing, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
And then I got there and I was like, oh, okay,
maybe that's not I want to do nursing. I don't know,
you know, I was eighteen, Like, how do you are
you supposed to choose your entire life at eighteen? But Aaron,
we're going to have a full circle moment.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I'm going to skip like a million pages ahead and
ask you the question that I want to ask you
that someone else.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Let me see who asked it so I can shout
out you.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
To say thank you, Sheila, thanks for asking. You said
that you were an English major when you first started,
so you always knew that you were going to.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Write a book. So when are you going to release
your book? Aaron? Well, I have to like write one first,
and I have to write a book proposal first. Yeah,
it's been floating around in my mind for a really
long time. I have said this for years, yes to people,
to friends. I do really want to do that, and
I just need to actually do it. So if anyone

(20:04):
has any tips for like how to actually do that
and accomplish that, and you know, let me know. We
can't wait to read it. Yeah, I don't know what
it's going to be about yet. Preon's would everyone read
a book about prion?

Speaker 2 (20:18):
I would? I'd love to.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
Thanks done.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Who's next?

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Who is next? Sophie?

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Henry Hi Sophie, So Sophie asks, what is the best
piece of advice that either or both of you have
received in going to grad school, med school, or working
in science in general.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Okay, I have now co opted this and we have
like put it into our presentations, which is, don't let
perfect be the enemy of good.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, that's a really good one.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
And also I actually think that we stole this or
I stole this from Brian Allan, our PhD advisor, because
he would whenever we were like stressing about grants or
papers or whatever, he would be like, just put it
down and then we can work on it. Just having
something down. It doesn't have to be perfect, like, don't
wordsmith till the end of time, right, just get started.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah. I don't know if this is specific to like
grad school or anything, but I know and I think
that this advice came from a friend that it is
okay to change your mind personally and professionally. I think
I've changed my mind about almost everything that at some
point I was like absolutely not or absolutely always, and

(21:31):
I've like one hundred percent changed my mind on things.
And I think that's a part of growth, and it
is okay.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
It is, and I think that's really important in the
specific context, not just like personal context, you know, life context,
but in career as well, if you're if you're like,
I don't know, I'm not sure why I started this
in the first place, don't be afraid to explore other options, right,
and to be even if you're like, oh, but I
wanted to do this thing since I was a kid,

(21:57):
So it's going to change your mind to not want
to do that anymore more you were a kid.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, well, and I think what's so awesome is that,
like all of the things that you have done up
until whatever point you decide to change your mind are
still going to be valuable things, like they're just going
to maybe be applied in a different context.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
So yeah, I love that question.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Well, that's really similar to Carrie's question, which I think
a number of other people asked too, which is what
advice would you give to your undergrad self.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
I mean, I think same thing, like, don't be afraid
to change your mind is a great piece of advice
for that. But also this is like such a boring
thing and I would not have taken it because I
know I received this advice a lot of the time
but never took it, which was, Oh my gosh, work
on your time management skills. You don't have to be

(22:45):
studying all night long, all the time, if you actually, like,
you know, block off times in your in your day.
I never ever did that until doing the podcast.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah yet, and I mean I still don't do that.
I still like very bad at it and a chronic procrastinator,
So I could probably be better about that.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think I would.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
Give a similar advice to the idea that like, you
don't you it's okay to change your mind, and like
you don't have to panic every time that you don't
know what's coming next. I spent I think a lot
of time panicking. I still do. Oh yeah, when it's
like you don't know it, like you know that something's
about to change, but you don't know how it's going
to go. That's that is life. It's life, and it's okay,

(23:30):
and it's okay that it's scary. But you don't have
to panic every time.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
Arin there are many different pathways and futures that can
sort of like intersect, and it's not like you're shutting
a door forever.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, that's so true. Oh my gosh, profound Erin, profound.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
Erin, I have a question for you. Actually I don't,
but it's from Jess and Kelly. Okay, if you weren't
science communicators slash doctor. Okay, what other career would you
be interesting sit and exploring?

Speaker 2 (24:01):
Can I still say shark biologists?

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Okay? But like what else right now? Do you want
to be a shark biologist? Right now?

Speaker 2 (24:07):
I mean, there are days when I wonder why did
I ever leave marine biology? Yeah that's fair. Yeah, there
were more days like that when I lived in Illinois.
But there are honestly so many jobs that I think
are fascinating that like, whenever I learn about a new job,
I'm like, wow, I didn't even like consider that as

(24:28):
a career path. That could be such a cool job.
But I can't think of any off the top of
my head right now. I know, yeah, what about you, Erin?

Speaker 1 (24:37):
I have always loved the idea of like working in
a used bookstore and creating curated recommendations for people. But
also there are it's just like so many things right
you watch I love going on, Like some of the
reddits that I love are people who are amazing at crafts. Oh,
whether it's crochet or knitting, or ceramics or working, and

(25:00):
I I just am like, well, I wish that I
had spent my I guess I could still do it,
but I wish I had spent more time, you know,
doing this at an earlier age, to experiment, like what
I liked, what I didn't like, et cetera. I don't know.
I feel like there are so many things out there,
and the more that I learned, the more I'm like, Wow,
that could be a really cool thing to explore. Yeah,
there's like, there's so much out there.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Okay. I love this question so much erin especially because
it comes from Sloan who's been listening to us since
middle school and is now in college, so we are old,
we are.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
In a way that I love it. Yes, I'm thrilled
by it.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
But they asked, how have you felt like your views
on infections and everything that we've covered have shifted since
the start of this podcast, and really, how does this
podcast inform how we go about our own lives? And
other people have asked similar questions.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Yeah, how do I like encapsulate everything? It's it's a
really great question because I think it it is so
one thing that we don't necessarily always do is like
self reflect Onah, Like, how can I put myself in
the mindset of the person I was before starting the
podcast and what I knew about infections and the history
of disease and so on. But I think the bottom

(26:13):
line for me is empathy and realizing that so, like,
these diseases are not just diseases, and they're not just
like a timeline of events, It is people. Yeah, And
that a lot of the way that we learn about disease,
particularly as you get like more and more advanced in
graduate degrees, it removes the actual humanity from any part

(26:35):
of it. And so I think doing this podcast has
been a great exercise in the constant reminder of, like,
these are diseases that are happening to people, and who
are living with these diseases.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, I feel exactly the same Aaron, And I feel like,
especially getting to learn you do such a wonderful job
going over the history of everything that we cover, just
gonna cry. And I really feel like that context is
something that I always missed and I would not have
gotten anywhere else in my training in my life, and

(27:10):
so especially as like a physician, I feel so strongly
that the context that doing this podcast provides, like on
a weekly basis, has made me a better healthcare provider.
It has made me a better human I think that
it has. It just provides so much context of understanding,
like how horrible and terrible the world can be sometimes

(27:32):
and how that affects so many things, Like everything is
so much bigger than we realize if you look deep
into the history of it. And so yeah, I think
it's empathy all the way. And it's not like that's
not the answer I would have expected from like we're
going to start a podcasts called this podcast Will Kill
You about disease, Like that sounds it's.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Like, oh, I wash my hands more right, Like yeah, probably,
but no, I do empathy. It's empathy.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Oh Maggie, Maggie, thank you for this question. Uh, it's
a really relevant one. Yep. Do either of you ever
experience imposter syndrome when you explain things on the podcast
and get worried that maybe you're getting anything wrong and
might get bad feedback. If so, how do you handle that? Yes?

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah, we I won't speak for you, but I know
we both you can, Okay, we both absolutely experience a
lot of imposter syndrome. And also just like we try
really really really hard to be as accurate as we
can and to provide as much context and story as
we can, and we know that not only might we

(28:43):
get things wrong, but there are going to be things
that we leave out out of every single episode, and
so it's something that we're very conscious of that, like
we're there are things that we're going to leave out,
and so we just like we just try our best.
And I think what we keep in mind is something
that you said earlier erin, which is like, don't let
perfection in the way of good. And so we try
and think that by at least providing as much and

(29:06):
as good of information as we can, we're doing something
good by putting that information out there and worry less
about what we might be leaving out or getting wrong,
because the other thing is that if we get something wrong,
you guys let us know, which is phenomenal and then
we can correct it.

Speaker 1 (29:21):
And yeah, yeah, I don't know if I have anything
to add on that, but absolutely get I get worried,
I get imposter syndrome, and yeah, we just sort of
like we do go into each episode very intentionally wanting
to like the amount of reading and research that we
do that we then sort of narrow down to be like, Okay,
what do we present, right, it is a very intentional choice,

(29:43):
and we don't always get it right right because we
are limited in it with time as well and with
just sort of like bandwidth and everything too, but also
because some of these concepts you need so many years
to become an expert in. And so I think that
like we we do kind of struggle with this balance
sometime of being like, we are not experts, but we

(30:04):
are telling you this information, and so how can we
make sure that we're giving you the most accurate information
and that if you want to learn more, here are
our sources.

Speaker 2 (30:14):
Right. Oh, Aaron, here's a fun one, right. He Austin
wants to know what is your favorite funny story that
happened because of the podcast or related to the podcast.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
Let's see. I think that some of my funny stories
related to the podcast are when I'm around someone who
finds who's like, oh, I listened to this podcast will
kill you, and they're like, wait, you did this podcast
will kill you? So that that happened? Uh man. Two
of my stories have weddings in them that happened at
a wedding last year. And we were talking about how

(30:50):
well AI would be able to generate a description of
the podcast and it was surprising. It was terrifying, right,
like really good. Yeah. And someone at the table was like, wait,
that's sounds familiar. I know that podcast. That's the only
podcast episode I have ever listened to. And I listened
to it before doing interviews to get me hyped. And

(31:10):
it was the episode about snake venom, and I was like,
this is the best thing ever made me so happy.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
I love it so much. Mine is a lot more awkward.
I think that's classic me. One time I was at
so if you're if you're listening, uh, I want to know.
I want to know if you remember this.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
I was love this.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
I was at a Shakeshack, not like the brand Shakeshack,
but this place called Shakeshack, which is up on the
cliffs near Corona Damar, and I was getting Shakespeare. I
pulled in to get some milkshakes and I was a
little chilly, so I went to the car to grab
a sweater. But the only sweater that was in there
was my husband's this podcast will kill You logo sweater.

(31:56):
And I don't usually wear our merch like in public
public because I'm so awkward, but I was wearing it,
and then I was walking back from the car, and
someone walked past and said, oh my god, I love
that podcast. Obviously didn't know who I was, but I
just panicked and I was like, I get them up
there and then and I had my dog with me,
and I just kind of ran away.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
I can see this perfectly in my mind's I just
ran away. So that was you, Hi.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
I think about it like almost every week about how
terrible and awkward I was.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
Yay, Okay, next question, great question. Okay, so we've got
the next few questions. Yeah, we just took a little

(32:56):
skim over and they're kind of all similar thematically, and
so it's kind of we're gonna let's do one, two, three,
bom boom boom. Right, all right, so diego, Kaz, Patty,
and Sarah all want to know various questions about our
favorite diseases, the scariest diseases, the scariest hypothetical diseases, and

(33:18):
the most interesting type of infectious disease transmission. Oh yeah,
which is a tough one. Mm hmmm. H What do
you think erin transmission? I think I would have to
say vector borne disease. Yeah, I mean, I spent six
years of my life studying it, and I do still
find it fascinating.

Speaker 2 (33:38):
I do too, especially just thinking about all of the
pathogens that are adapted to multiple different hosts, like necessarily
for transmission. I find that just so fascinating evolutionarily and ecologically, well.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Just like the trade offs, and like I think this
applies to just patterns of transmission, right, what are the
trade offs between being super specific to one host versus
being able to be transmitted to a wide variety of hosts,
or what if some vector born diseases that are specifically
adapted to one vector one host, Like, there are so
many different ways that disease can be transmitted and happen,

(34:15):
and it's fascinating to think of the evolutionary history behind that. Yep,
I agree.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
In terms of most terrifying diseases, I still think and
this is maybe like not a fully fair question because this,
I guess is a hypothetical, but like could very much exist,
will maybe someday, is like the hypothetical disease if from contagion. Right, sure,
the movie Contagent, where it was a pathogen that's transmitted

(34:42):
by like airborne or droplet transmission, so like easy to
spread has a very high mortality rate and can be
transmitted before somebody is symptomatic.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Right. We had said this long ago, I think in
our influenza episode. We talked about it in our neupavirus episode,
and I think that with COVID we really did get
to kind of like witness that on a global scale,
it's terrifying. It's terrifying. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yep. Hm.
So like that's like this hypothetical example in terms of

(35:16):
some of the pathogens I think that we've covered that
are terrifying in a different way. Are the ones that
are you know, the ones we always talk about like rabies, right,
parasite manipulation of host behavior or pathogen manipulation of host
behavior where there is nothing that you can do. I
also still think prey are very just not not so

(35:41):
much scary, but just like but how yeah. It really
does sort of like stretch the boundaries of what we
consider it to be infectious diseases or like what is
a disease that is contagious? It's just what is a pathogen?

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Right? I guess, like like Tasmanian devils, Like what is
a pathogen? What is a cancer? It's oh man, Okay,
now we have just some really fun ones. Darcy wants
to know, what are disease names that you think would
be a beautiful person name.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Okay, first one that came to mind was your sinia
not yes, Okay, here's another one. What what about ari
Aris could be actually in the right context and you
call them toulee? I think that's cute.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
Oh. Similarly, Alexis wanted to know what if you had
to have your last name.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Be a disease? What disease would it be?

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Your last name, which I feel like is a little
different than like a first name. I don't think i'd
picked Tulee.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Yeah, what like? What else?

Speaker 2 (36:49):
I can't think of any I'm just because we're put
on the spot.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Honestly, I still am gonna go with Arius as Yeah
it works, Aaron, your sinea doesn't work. No, Aaron, pestis
could work.

Speaker 2 (37:07):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, well good stuff, great stuff. Okay. So the next
few questions are also linked thematically. All about books, All
about books, which I am thrilled. I'm thrilled about, even
though right now I'm also having a little internal panic
because I don't have liked to be like, what have

(37:31):
I read? Because Aaron I cannot remember I cannot remember.
But okay, so rhiannon wants to know about favorite or
best books about microbe slash microbiology. Besides, I contain multitudes,
Ed Young.

Speaker 2 (37:46):
I mean erin you have to answer this question because
you know, I haven't had time to read a book
since at least before my school so that's really embarrassing
to admit on the podcast. But there it is. You know, I.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Don't know, Like, so what I'm struggling with right now
is the qualifier of books about microbes microbiology.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
I think, just what's your favorite science book?

Speaker 1 (38:11):
Okay, I'm going to name two ones about microbes and
ones about it Give it to me, Okay. The one
about microbes is Spillover by David Kwaman. Okay, I read
that before. I read that at some point during my PhD,
before COVID obviously, and I thought it was absolutely terrifying
but enlightening in terms of like how it's the one
is one health right, you know, and that that framing

(38:32):
was still something that we think about every single day
so important. My favorite non microbe science book is probably
an Immense World by Ed Young. I think about this
book all the time. I think it is one of
the most beautiful examples of science writing, and not just
like in the sentence construction, but in how well Edyong

(38:56):
is able to convey information. That is, he's able to
not just be surface level but also actually teach you
something along the way while entertaining you.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
You should see this sparkle in her eyes. And if
you haven't listened to the book Club episode where Aaron
got to interview ed Young, you definitely need to listen.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
It's just such a great book and it really made
me think about the world in a new way.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Well, similarly, Aarin, of all the books that you've read
what in the last like five years? Oh, she can't.
She can't pick a favorite. Sorry, Orianna, there's too many
good ones. Okay, Okay, just gonna try.

Speaker 1 (39:34):
Yeah. Like literally, when we were going through this list
of questions, that question stuck out to me and I
was like, Okay, I have to go through what I
have read, and I can't find a favorite. I have
a really hard time picking favorites about anything. But I
would say I have two that I can remember in
the last year or so that I've read that I've

(39:54):
really loved. One is Matrix by Lauren Groff. Okay, I
loved it. Check it out. That's fiction and then nonfiction.
I really liked a book about the Donner Party called
The Indifferent Stars Above, and I really appreciated how sensitive
the author was and how empathetic the author was with

(40:15):
the story, because you can really tell a donor party
story that is like incredibly horrifict yeah, and like very
kind of voyeuristic or something like that, where you're just
like gratuitous violence and everything. In this I really felt
like he did such a great job of putting you
in the mindset of what it must have been like
to be there, what it might have been like.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
Okay, love that. If you're not following Aaron Walsh on Goodreads,
I don't know what to tell you it.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Don't write reviews. Maybe I should. I don't even rate
most of the books, Okay, okay, so okay. This next
question is for me by Kristen, and it's about why
I Aaron Welsh do not like Richard Preston books. So

(41:02):
I have read a few, and I have found them
somewhat helpful at times. The thing that I don't like,
and I'm going to call out just the hot zone
in particular, and it might even be like, let me
just even be more, you know, I'll give more benefit
of the doubt. The copy that I have has literally
no sources at the end of it, and so I

(41:23):
think that that is where it is. There's any science
book that is conveying information in a way that is
supposed to be educational or informative should have sources, whether
those sources are from conversations or from papers or from whatever.
So that's why I have a you know, teeny tiny
issue with that.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
Yeah, we're going to get like a season desist letter
or something.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Show me the sources.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Okay, now we're just going to go fully silly, Nina,
Thank you. I don't want to answer this question. If
you were starving and your only options were a sandwich
prepared with unwashed hands or a delicious three course meal,
but every bite you took has a long hair in it, Ugh,
which one would you pick? Oh?

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Absolutely, no hesitation. Three course meal with hairs it would
just be like eating a fish with like where you
have to pick out the bones. I don't eat.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I can't. I don't like that.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
I mean, it's more work.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
It's also not the same as fish with bones because
it's a hair from someone's head or body.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
Okay, but like you know, I guess. Okay, two questions,
what type of hair? Every bite? Every bite? I mean
you'll take giant bites and there's one hair.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
But similarly, you're talking about unwashed hands, who's unwashed hands?
How unwashed?

Speaker 1 (42:44):
Right? When was the last washing? And how dirty?

Speaker 2 (42:47):
And whose hand? Like is it my unwashed hands? Is
it my toddler's unwashed hands?

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Is it? We're talking full soiled or just like lightly
mildly dust. Oh, I don't know, it's that this is
a hard question. Oh not for me. Three of course,
gourmet meal. I absolutely, it wouldn't be gourmet. Doesn't it
say three courses with the hair?

Speaker 4 (43:15):
You know?

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Agree to disagree? Yeah, okay, okay. Rachel and Alana want
to know how much time it takes to prepare for
an episode, finding the research, reading the articles and books,
and writing our summaries. A lot, A lot, a lot,
And it varies a lot based on the episode. Yeah.
So for some of the bigger topics that we've covered,

(43:38):
like menopause, like IVF, like.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Three episodes, I think that took us like a month
or more.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
It did, Yeah, But I would say in general, yeah,
I a few solid days, like three to four solid
days of reading and writing. As I'm reading notes like so,
I'll like bullet point a lot of things, and then
it takes me usually a couple days to summarize. Yeah,
and then there's the whole day, like I usually take
a day of finding initial sources, and then as I

(44:06):
start to read and I'm like, oh, those citations look interesting,
I should go find those papers. Oh those citations, and
it's just like you do go down the road at all. Yeah,
you do have to. It is sometimes hard to be
like that's enough, We're going to tell this story and
not the whole story.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
I remember when I was interviewing for residency programs, some
of them asked me like, oh, are you planning on
still doing the podcast during residency, because obviously residency takes
a lot of hours per week And I was like, oh, definitely,
and they were like, well, how many hours do you
spend and I think I said, oh, I don't know,
maybe ten hours per week. It was like such an underestimate.

(44:42):
I ca Anyways, Yep, we survived it.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, it's a lot, but it's also really like it's
fun work.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
It's a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
But it's fun work just.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
Getting to read like something and learn something new every week,
which we didn't get to do in grad school. I
feel like it was very much in your.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Field, right.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Ooh, Vivian wants to know what is something that you
learned about doing this podcast that pops up frequently in
your mind, and they provided their first answer. I think
about maggots all the time. Now, yes, I'm the same.
I also share my top quality pre on facts at barbecues.
I want to go to your barbecue.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
One of us love those. I think, honestly. The thing
that happens every single day and now I'm embarrassed for
the second call out of an Immense World by Ed
Young is the when I walk my dog. I genuinely
every single time he stops and sniffs for what feels
like ten minutes one spot. I'm like, but this is

(45:40):
for him, this is for him. He's smelling much more
than I could ever smell. This is enrichment. So I
think that's probably the things that I think about the most.
It is every single day.

Speaker 2 (45:51):
Oh, I love that. I feel like there's a lot
of things that I think about a lot. I think
maybe the most though, is me, like just the whole
concept of a backstory behind things like hysteria. M M.
I think about that a lot. I think about our
endometriosis episode. I think about how much the medical system

(46:13):
has wronged people with a uterus like. I think about
that and it infuriates me on a daily basis.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
Wow, mine is Mine's like my dog snuffing an old turd.
Yours is like the misogyny in medicine over time. Try
I change my answer. No, no, no kidding, uh okay. Ruby
wants to know if we have other hobbies. Well, I
guess the question was, what other hobbies do we have?

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I have no hobbies, thank you.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Okay, then I'll ask the second question, is it weird
going to the doctor?

Speaker 2 (46:48):
No?

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Are you? Are you a doctor who doesn't like to
go to the doctor?

Speaker 2 (46:51):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (46:52):
Have you been that before becoming a doctor?

Speaker 2 (46:55):
Yes? I never liked doctors.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
I think people who don't like doctors end up being doctors.
I don't know. That's a fun question.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
I am a terrible patient.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yep, Okay, I have a question for you. I'm just
going with this now. When you get a doctor as
a patient, can you tell not always? Okay?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yeah, no, not always.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
I've had that happen a lot.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
And I remember, like first year of residency, I had
a patient who was like a second or third year
resident or something, and I was talking with them about
something for a really long time until we were like, oh, yeah,
I'm in like whatever other specialty. And I was like,
I don't know why you just let me keep talking
for so long, but.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Okay, I love that. Yeah. Yeah, I've always wondered is
it like, ah, yeah, you must also be. But what
about you, Aaron? You have hobbies? I read this. My
number one hobby is reading. That's a good hobby. And
I garden in the summer when it's not a million
degrees outside, which I feel like it has been in

(48:05):
Denver for a bit of time, although depending on when
this episode comes out, but probably will be cool. And
people are like, why are you complaining it's perfect weather
but no gardening? Reading? Uh, you know, camping whenever we can,
which is not very much, but that's basically it. Reading
is my number one hobby.

Speaker 2 (48:22):
That's a really good hobby.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Does it count as a hobby?

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, definitely. Okay, yeah that counts as a hobby. I
hang out with my family, but that doesn't count as
a hobby.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
That's just a hobby.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
It's not.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
It's part of life. I like it.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, it's not a hobby. Okay, I feel like a hobby.
I don't know anyways.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Okay, so this next question I'm going to relate back
to the question about what's it like to be a
doctor going to the doctor and so on and stuff
like that, because I feel like it has to deal
with patient relationships cool or just like in your in
your real life, my real life, in real life. Cassandra

(49:03):
wants to know if you have encountered any anti vaxxers
in your personal or professional lives and how we respond
to that.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
One hundred percent. I live in San Diego, so definitely
I think the thing. And again I think that this
is part of what the podcast has made me much
better at. Is not only like explaining things, and I
think we got some questions later on about explaining complicated
things to people. But when I have patients, which I

(49:31):
do very often, who either don't want to get a
vaccine or who have questions about a vaccine or about
any other medicine that I'm about to recommend to them,
or thing that I'm going to tell them that they
might not want to hear. I think that doing this
podcast has really made me have more empathy for understanding
that everybody has a story about why they came to

(49:53):
believe the thing that they came to believe, even if
it is the exact opposite of what I believe, and
even if I think that I'm right or whatever. And
so I think that the way that I tend to
approach that, especially in my professional life, because in my
personal life, I don't know, maybe I approach it the

(50:14):
same way, but especially in my professional life, I think
I always tried to come from a place of trying
to understand where that person is coming from. So, do
you have questions about this vaccine? Like I'm going to
bring up the flu shot. I see that you haven't
gotten your flu shot? Do you have any questions about it?
And if they say no, I might move on. Or

(50:35):
if I think that maybe I've gotten in I might
ask them a question, have you ever gotten one before?
Have you had a bad reaction? What have you heard
about it? Like most of the time I have found
that just by engaging with people from a place of
understanding and empathy rather than like a judgment of oh
my god, how have you never gotten your flu shot?
Don't you know you're putting people at risk or whatever,

(50:55):
or like fear mongering like never works, but just meeting
people are there and then knowing that, like, if you
foster that kind of relationship, then you probably have an
opportunity to talk to them about it again. And it
might take many times of talking with someone about a
topic that they feel really strongly about before you feel
like you're breaking down a wall or something. But a
lot of times you can get there, especially when it's

(51:17):
someone who's just worried or has questions or is afraid
and not like some people who just are never going
to engage with you, and that's okay. There's some people
who you just don't I and I generally just don't write.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Yeah, I would say, like, you know, the people that
I interact with, which is not very many, I am,
you know, and I acknowledge, like many other people probably
that I live in a bubble, right. The people that
I spend the most time with in my day to
day life are on the same page when it comes
to vaccines and public health and the importance of public health.
And during the times when I do interact with someone

(51:50):
who is has mixed feelings or is strongly anti vaccine,
It's challenging. It's challenging because it feels it feels like
you're up against so much. And I think that sometimes
it is a struggle to be like, Okay, how much
energy do I have right now? How much bandwidth do
I have to try to convince this person? And is

(52:13):
it convincing this person or is it just answering their
questions or asking them where they got their information and
so relatives. I think this is one where it's like, Okay,
I hear you out, I hear you out. Are they
receptive but knowing that sometimes they're not going to be right?
And that's okay, Like it's okay for for you to
just say I can't do this right.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Yeah, I feel like I have a lot of experience
doing this because it's like part of my job when
I'm being a doctor, right, like to try my best,
like to have a conversation with someone, and like I
know that vaccines are important for individual and public health,
So like I'm gonna I'm gonna have a conversation. I'm
gonna try, but like I'm not about to have a
fight with someone on the internet. No, no, no, so yeah,

(52:56):
it's it's picking your battles a little bit too. Yeah. Yeah, right, okay,
well this does Aaron. Our next question from Pamela, and
I think Laura had a very similar question. How do
you go about breaking complex science and history into a
language that a general audience can understand? And do you
have recommendations for people who might want to get into psycom?

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Yes, okay, breaking complex science and history into language the
general audience can understand. You know, I think this is
something that is so important and that is under prioritized
in training, in grad school training. Yeah, in our experience,
in our experience. You know, we went to grad school.

(53:39):
We graduated from grad school six years ago. Yeah, so
a long time time. But I think that there are
many different things that you can practice. And what we
do is that when I am reading all this information,
I'm thinking of the story that I want to tell,
Like how do these pieces fit together? How do I
hook Aaron at the beginning and the rest of our listeners,

(54:03):
Like what is the interesting thing I'm going to lead with?
And then how do I explain it after that. One
of the biggest problems that scientists run into is using
jargon or over using jargon, right. And it's really easy
to do that because that's what we've been trained in,
these overly complex concepts that we spend so much time learning,
you know, you forget how you learn them. And to

(54:25):
have that to be able to say something like hypoxia,
call out, call out my husband John. That's a good
example to say hypoxia. There's a lot of information that
goes into that one word, and it's a shortcut. And
so jargon and these these complex concepts are shortcuts, and
we rely on those because they make communication more precise

(54:46):
and clear in a scientific context, But when it comes
to chatting with like the general audience, it's not it's
not helpful. And so when we're telling stories, you know,
we have the almost like it's a it's an advantage
of we're coming cross this information almost for the first
time ourselves. So when I'm reading about the history of

(55:06):
hemochromatosis or neurovirus or something like that, I've never read
about this before, or if I had, it's not been
as in depth, and so I'm learning it at the
same time that I am thinking what I want to
teach Aaron, right, And putting it in an order that
to me makes sense, And so I think that's one
of the biggest helpful things, is just sort of keeping

(55:27):
in check with myself, like, Okay, how am I reframing
this in my own mind? And then how can I
use that then to teach Aaron?

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Yeah, I do a very similar thing. And I also
I also use my husband a lot.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Yeah, thank you, Brett.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I will be like, can I just read this to you?
Can you tell me if this makes sense? And like
check in with someone. So I think a lot of
times it is practice, right, It's like practicing your story,
bouncing ideas off of someone to make sure that something
is clear or if there's a better way that you
can explain it, and just making sure that we're not
using jargon as much as.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Possible, which I know I am guilty of a lot
of times we all are. It's like, and this is
not something so you know, this kind of answers the
second question or goes into it. So recommending what would
we recommend to scientists who wanted to get into sycom
like podcasting is just like practicing at it and not
being too worried that you get it wrong, right, Like
because It takes a long time, but you have to

(56:21):
practice and you have to ask for feedback. You can't
just be like, go out in the world and start
doing science communication and not want to and not get
any feedback, because you need to know what things you
need to improve on and what things, what things are working,
what things aren't working. And also, you know, I think
this is an advice that we give in workshops, which
is just like, be intentional about all that you do,

(56:43):
about the words that you're using, about the questions that
you're getting, and about what you like about different forms
of SIcom you know what works for you, Who are
your favorite creators, why are they your favorite creators, what
are your favorite stories? Like all of this is just
being very intentional with your science communication.

Speaker 2 (57:01):
Yeah, Leah would like to know, are there any specific
areas of epidemiological research that you're excited to see evolve
and develop in the next few years or decades? So many,
so many. Yeah, in medicine, and I think this is
true in public health as well. I think that we
are really starting to understand how important communication and feedback

(57:24):
and like things other than just diseuse metrics and stuff is.
Like the human side.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
I guess of it all.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
I think it's so important, and so I think I
hope that that will continue to be something that people
focus on and research and like the human impact of
all of these different chronic and acute illnesses that we
see and how people like live with them and experience
them and things like that.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
Yeah, I think that's a great I think that's a
great answer. Online the online the internet is double edged
sword or like many edged sword. But I feel like
one of the things that has has been great is
raising awareness and sharing experiences that I think has highlighted
some of the ways that medicine and science has failed, right,

(58:09):
you know, failed patients, failed the general public, and how
we can do better at that. And I think that
there are you know, is it going to take time, Yes,
but I think that there are people who are really
invested in making this a better situation for everyone, because
we have to have everyone on the same page if
we don't want this rise in anti science. I feel
like I'm lecturing, but like I feel very strongly also.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Can I say, like universal health care in the US?
Can I say that, I really really hope yes, But
that's a thing, ye that we see soon.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
I would also like to add these AI and machine
learning oh death, and like how that's going to help
just make sense of some of the patterns that we
may not see or help like things with drug discovery,
which we've already talked about a few times on the podcast.
I think there's so much potential there.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Talk about double edged sort that gonna have to be
careful but has a lot of potential. I know, like
so much, so much potential and woof.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Okay, with great technology comes great consequences responsibility. Yeah, yeah too.
Oh this question is just the best. Okay, Okay, I
love this. Andrea and Eloise have asked and I'm a
quote word for words. He's very cute. Yea quote. I

(59:28):
listened to your podcast with my mom in my comfiest outfit,
a homemade TPWK why shirt we tied eyed, my shark
Jammi's and comfy song.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
I love that. I want and I.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Wanted to know what's your comfy outfit. I'm not wearing
it right now, I'm wearing jeans same.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I don't know why we chose this.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
I'm sweating, sweating. My comfious outfit is just like, oh,
actually I have I just popped into my head, give
it to me. This is so embarrassing. I full Kirkland gear. Yes,
I have my Kirkland branded sweatpants Kirkland signature. They're the
gray version. They're the comfiest sweatpants I own. I wear

(01:00:07):
them as much as I possibly can. And my Costco
embroidered sweatshirt that when I bought in Costco, the you know,
the person who was scanning me and like doing the
checkout was like, oh, yeah, everyone's buying these as white
elephant gifts because who would want to own one of these?
And he's like, is that what you're buying this for?
And I was like, no, this one's for me, not sponsored, No,

(01:00:33):
just genuinely love Costco and Kirkland branded gear wear. Oh
my god, that's my comfiest outfit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
That's a really good comfious outfit. I don't think I
have one as specific. I can't top that erin, I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Have like a comfius T shirt, Like, what is your
go to T shirt?

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
I think my go to Like the comfiest thing is
when I steal one of my husband's T shirts.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Oh for sure those are always mine.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Yeah, yeah, So I one of his T shirts and
then like a pair of very loose Actually, I have
this one pair of shorts that I They're like, I
could never wear them in anything remotely considered public because
they're just like very very small and very loose.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Are this someone's from your mom? No?

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
I don't think so, Okay, No, I bought. I think
I bought these like right before I delivered my first
kid as like comfy clothes to wear postpartum, and just
like still wear them all the time. Also several pairs
of postpartum likings.

Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Although okay, anyways, Oh, I love that question though it's
a really good ones.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Elsie would like to know how many times has someone
commented or spoken to us and said that they were
diagnosed after listening to an episode.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
You know, this has been one of the most incredible
and I'll say it against surreal moments of this podcast
where we do get emails, we get messages where people say,
I listened to this episode and it kind of resonated
with me in terms of my symptoms. So I went
talked to a doctor and I have this condition. Yeah,

(01:02:10):
so it's you know, it's several, it's any people. It
is a surprising number of people. And I feel like
that is what has been so incredibly powerful, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
It breaks my heart and fills my heart at the
exact same time, because I don't want anyone to have
to live with all of these things that we cover.
And I cannot believe how thankful I am, or maybe
thankful is not the right word, but how grateful I
am that we were able to help somebody in that
way of being able to like be empowered with more

(01:02:40):
information and things like that, Like it's really.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
It's it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
One of the best parts of the job. That truly
And when people get their flu shots for the first
time after listening, yes, or like, oh, I need to
check out my boosters, right, do I need my tea
Depp or so many of you who now are like
having careers in public health and epidemiology and science and medicine.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Like I we read every.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Single one of those comments, you guys, and it we're
not doing a good job of explaining how incredible and
amazing it is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
I think we're it's it's overwhelming, Yeah, and we don't
know how to articulate how.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
How think how thank you?

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Yeah? Like how it just I still cannot believe it, Yeah,
and it still feels it feels not real. Yeah, Like
there are times because Aaron and I record this well
most often in other places, and it's just us talking
to each other, right, it is just us talking to
each other, right. And occasionally we'll do you know, seminars

(01:03:40):
or keynotes or workshops or whatever, and it's like this
is you know, we have an audience, right, But for
the most part, it still feels like it is just us.
And so then when we get these emails from people
all around the world, it is I don't I don't
have the words.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
No, I don't think we're doing a good job our
ticulating ourselves. But we are just so immensely grateful for
every single one of you listening. You don't understand the
impact that you have had in our lives.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Yes, so so thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
We love it. Okay, well I'm going to cry, so
we should move on. Oh a fun one erin sure
Selena wants to know what is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
A book or movie that you wish you could read.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
Or watch again for the first time. I have an
answer for this. I have read books in my life.
I just haven't been able to read the last few
years because I just read papers like for the podcast. Anyways,
Golden Compass, Great Golden Compass, and like that whole trilogy
I reread every few years because I just love it
so much. And if I could experience that, especially the

(01:04:45):
third book, my heart being ripped out of my body
for the first time again, I would love that.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, okay, okay, I just had to
take a full on computer break to worth it. We
want a true as you know, and I still I
still have like several I feel like I'm going to
do the two first. I like, I feel like Fingersmith
and the Sparrow, great books. Love those. Wish I could

(01:05:13):
read those again for the first time because of the
way it evolved throughout the narrative evolved throughout the book.
But the other book that I think I wish I
could read again for the first time because it was
so surprising to me was Cloud at Lists.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
So, okay, I remember you telling me to read this, Yes, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
So what happened was when and this might be now
spoiling it for like the experience for people, So if
you don't want that, just skip ahead, like me thirty
seconds to a minute when I was in between my
undergrad and my masters and I was having to like,
do a bunch of microscope work in this neuroscience lab.
I would listen to books on CD back then, Wow,

(01:05:54):
uh yeah yourself a little bit. Oh yeah. And I
picked out Cloud Outless because the cover looked interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
That was it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
I knew nothing about it, didn't have good reads back then,
and I just popped in the first CD. And then
I got to the end of the first CD, you know,
end of Disc one, switched to Disc too. I put
in Disc Too, and I was like, oh, are you
kidding me? Somebody scratched up the entire CD. It was.
It was a totally different narrator, totally different story. And

(01:06:21):
I was like, I don't understand what is going on here,
but I have nothing else, so I'm just going to
go with it. And it turns out that that's the
way the book is. It breaks off abruptly in between chapters.
And that made the entire experience, not going into it
knowing that made the entire experience so much more compelling

(01:06:42):
and surprising. And I you know how I hate spoilers
more than anything, well, not more than anything else, but
they're one of my biggest pet peeves on this earth.
Saying that there's a twist in a book is a spoiler.
I stand very firmly in that, you know, that's my
very strong position. Yeah, and so this has also made
me realize how much not knowing something about a book

(01:07:06):
or a movie or a TV show, that's that's my
preferred state of being right before I you know, partaking.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Right shares it. It shapes the experience.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah. Oh so that was a very long answer, but
I wanted to give context. No, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
I like that too, when you don't know anything about
what it's going to be, like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:24):
Yeah, Aaron, Yeah, I this is such a great question.
Kiara wants to know if we could have only one
type of sandwich for the rest of our lives, what
sandwich would you pick?

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
And why? This is a very difficult question for me.
I know it's not hard for you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Got it, got, cut it back, Go go Italian sandwich
with like provolone, you know, pickled maybe like jardonara on
their vinegar, just like cured meats, pickled vegetables, melted cheese.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
I think that this only feels difficult to me because
I feel like my answer is very boring and I
feel like I should have a sexier answer. But I
think that my if I go to my heart of hearts,
my answer is the sandwich that I wanted so badly
both times that I was pregnant and I was like
terrified of listerious so I wasn't eating any lunch meat,
and that is turkey sandwich on sourdough bread or like

(01:08:16):
something similar with like I don't know, a cheddar cheese,
a lot of mayo. I don't need bacon on it.
Some avocado would be great, some lettuce that's crunchy. I
don't care that much about tomatoes. Plus or minus. It's
like a it's a turkey sandwich. Is a boring turkey sandwich?

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
I mean? Is an Italian sandwich sexy? It feels like it? Yeah,
with like jardinia and like some peppers like ooh ooh
you know No I love a turkey sandwich.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
I yeah I do too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Anyways, I love this question because like we've been we've
been reviewing these questions as they've come in, and so
this I feel like has generated a lot of conversation
outside of Yes the podcast, see it's the other great answer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
Yeah, I don't think anyone has said like a meatball
sub yet. Know what about grilled cheese. Ooh, I forgot
about grilled cheese. That would be my kid's answer for sure.
Oh but then there's pep and j Right, I'm okay
with not eating pep and ja. Ever again, I had
so much during fieldwork that I.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Am okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
Well, thinks Shira would like to know. What is something
interesting that each respective Aaron doesn't know about the other.
I don't know we have anything.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
I really don't know, like especially something interesting. Thing is
there's nothing interesting about me. I'm like, I own this
many pairs of socks, Like you don't know how many
pairs of socks I own.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
But that's not I know that you wont know way
too many pairs of socks, is what I know about you?
I love I'm gonna shout out dark dart, but I
think here's the thing, is, like we know everything there
is to know about each other.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
Let me tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Aaron loves weird flavors like grape it's delicious so gross, Nerds,
ropes and nerds, jelly oh God, nerds.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
Jelly beans need to go off of the shelves because
it is a problem. I love them. Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Anyways, yeah, okay, So next question, Heather would like to know.
Oh this is similar speaking of nerds ropes. Yes, what
desserts do you like? And I would love it if
we got to eat them at Mile High API C conference.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Yes, okay, I love this year and I feel like
you have great answers for this.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
I love almost every dessert. Yes, I love let's see,
I love cheesecake. I love a chocolate dessert. I love
almost any kind of pie. I love cream pies.

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
I love fruit pies, fruit pies a little.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
Less than cream pies, if I'm being honest, chocolate pies.
You know what's funny is I don't love a cake,
but I will always eat a cake.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
You don't love a cake? Nope, I don't love a cake.
Are you including cheesecake in that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
No, cheesecake is separate.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Is cheesecake a cake?

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
Yes, but cheesecake is not cake. It's not okay, Okay, No,
this is good. Yeah, Like I'm talking like a layer cake,
like a cupcake cake. You know that's a different than
a cheesecake. All right, I love cookies.

Speaker 1 (01:11:12):
There's not a dessert. So those are your favorite desserts.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
There's a long Listen. Favorite is a strong word, like
you were saying about books. That's how I feel about
to share it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Here's a question, is I don't have good reads for desserts?
But you could say, maybe, all right, if is there
a dessert where if you saw like a table of desserts,
you would be like, no, I'm okay if even if
that's the only dessert on the table, you know what
I mean? Like, is there a dessert that I would reject?

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Or like a.

Speaker 1 (01:11:39):
Style of donut we'll say, you know, like that kind
of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
No, especially not donut. I love donuts. I don't actually
think that there is, and it's to a fault, like
even maybe the like cruddiest of like conference cookie, you
know the ones.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
The ones that have like let sugar cookies with the frosting,
or like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
Just like a you're at a conference at like a
cruddy hotel and they bring out the like tray of
cookies and you can tell that they're like meally, you
know you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:12:10):
I'm talking about. No, you don't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Someone out there does that Those might be the only
thing that if I were super full, I wouldn't eat.
Is like a cookie okay, that doesn't look like a
good cookie. Okay, But otherwise all those little like not
I would eat most desserts.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
All right, Yeah, what is your favorite ice cream flavor?
If you could have one ice cream flavor? I love?
This is my favorite type of question, if you could
have one ice cream flavor, one sandwich.

Speaker 2 (01:12:36):
Because here's the thing, is you like these kind of
hypothetical questions and I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:12:41):
It's not going to happen. I know it will be
allowed to have whatever ice cream you want.

Speaker 2 (01:12:44):
Dressful I I don't. I don't have an answer to that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:53):
I love.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
I love ice cream so much. I can't pick one flavor. Okay,
that's fine to have to I'm stressed out. George would
like to know are there any episodes that we'd like
to revisit, re record, add on to, or go back
and connect more explicitly to episodes that we recorded later.

Speaker 1 (01:13:17):
Question. That's a doozy of a question, and I think
the short answer is yes, Yes. I think it would
be really interesting to approach well, to approach some of
the diseases we've already covered, particularly in the earlier early
episode seasons. Yeah, from a different perspective, Yeah, like from
more of a either, like from a the like I

(01:13:38):
would like I would love to do a germ theory
episode where it's like, what are the actual steps instead
of just like and everyone knows germ theory happened, then
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
Aaron, we could still do that could okay, like we
didn't cover and we've talked about germ theory.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
But at the same time, I would also love to
revisit in more depth some of the ones that we did,
because I feel like there are so many stories that
we didn't tell.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Yeah, I think that's true of so many I think
that was what was fun about re kind of redoing Influenza,
our very first episode, right because yeah, especially in our
early season, we just know how much we left out
because we didn't know what we were doing.

Speaker 1 (01:14:15):
We know what we're doing, but yeah, I think just
different perspectives of things, and I feel like we've been
doing that more like the history of the stethoscope or
what is a fever? Stuff like that, where it's like,
let's take this and then spin it a little differently
instead of just our usual format, and I've been really
having it it's with That would be really fun. Yeah,

(01:14:36):
I agree, Thank you for that. Gank Taren would like
to know what our favorite thing is that we have
learned recently.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
I want to steal yours that you taught me earlier today.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Go ahead, But did you know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
That cows can swim? Aaron just taught me this as
we were reading through these questions and showed me a
video of cows like jumping off of both.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Yeah. That was the most surprising part of it is
that they left off of the no alsitation A cow
a cow like a regular looking cow, A beautiful looking cow.
I am to an island.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
To grace it did not the way they went underwater
and came back up. Wow, I did not.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Yeah, you were real nervous the first cow leap. Yeah,
it's not well.

Speaker 2 (01:15:22):
And when the two leapt off at the same time,
I was like, how's that gonna go?

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Great? They were fine. Yeah, that is one of my
favorite things. Yes, that's what I was going to do.

Speaker 2 (01:15:31):
Yeah, okay, we have a couple of questions.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
We're almost done. We only have a couple of questions.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Lest Yes, Sydney and Carol would both like to know
will we do any live shows or have we ever
thought of going on tour or doing more seminars?

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Well, okay, definitely yes to the seminars and workshops, I
come workshops and putting those together to try to you know,
like basically take what we have learned this bizarre podcast
experience that was totally unexpected and helped teach other people
to work on their pyecom skills. So totally absolutely, seminars

(01:16:09):
et cetera live show tour would be really fuck what
would you all want them? Let us know? It sounds
really nerve wrecking? Does sound nerve wracking? Like we're not performers,
Like we got into this because we're scientists. Even right now,
we're sweating and we're like just in a room with

(01:16:29):
each other.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
We're just nervous, sweating this whole entire time.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, but we are.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
I think there was a question earlier about like what's
your hopes for the future, And I am really excited.
We've been trying working really hard on kind of like
expanding all that we have learned about science communication into
these like workshops and seminars that I'm like super excited
about moving forward. So yeah, if you have an organization
or are part of a university or whatever and you're interested,

(01:16:59):
shout out to our tech page on this podcast. We
till You dot com we would love to come talk totally.

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
Okay, we have one last question. Oh my gosh, this
has been really fun.

Speaker 2 (01:17:11):
I know, better than I expected, even though I'm nervous sweating.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
I'm nervous sweating, but also it's just felt really good,
like I don't know, I know, to talk about some
of these things, especially the three course meal versus that. Okay,
last question. My last question comes from Casey, and it

(01:17:34):
is what are you most proud of about the podcast?

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
Every one of you listening? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:17:42):
I am.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Also, I sometimes feel ridiculous just how proud I feel
of this podcast. Me too, Like I love so much
that we are able to keep doing this, And it
is one hundred percent because of every person listening.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Absolutely it is. I mean I can't I can't even
add any to that, like that is it is all
of you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
Can we be proud of you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
We are?

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
Huh yeah? Oh wow, this was fun here, This was
really fun. Yeah, I loved it. I love doing this
podcast with you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Too, forever, Aaron. No, I have a second thing I'm
really proud of. Oh actually this is really important. I
know you do, and I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:18:31):
Can I can I guess what you're about to say,
yeah that we're still really good friends throughout this whole thing.
We get to be best friends still. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
That is that. So when this was part of the
conversation that we had when you decided to do this
podcast full time, it's like we knew that that was
going to be very stressful and a lot like okay,
now we're business partners, yeah, and we knew that that
was going to be really hard and stressful, and we said, Okay,
if we are going to do this, our first priority

(01:19:01):
has to be that we stay friends.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
Yeah, and we did. We did.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
We just spent how many days like together non stop?
And I still love you.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
I still love you too.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
We're so cute. We should stop now.

Speaker 4 (01:19:17):
Yeah all right, Yeah, I mean I don't know how
to end this other than like thank you all again.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
And sorry that we didn't get to every single question.
There were so many great ones. Thank you all again
for so many of your questions. Thank you for all
of the kind messages that you wrote. Yes, yeah, we said,
it means the world so much.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
It really does, and we also appreciate you like yeah, yes,
letting us keep doing this, Yeah, writing to us about
other things other than questions. Like, we love getting emails
from you, messages from you. Yeah, yeah, we should. We
need to, We need to cut ourselves. We've got to
wrap this up.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Thank you also to Bloodmobile for providing the music for
this episode, every single one of our episodes.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
Thank you to Leana Sculacci and Tom Bryfogel for all
the incredible audio mixing.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Couldn't do it without yet. Thank you to everyone at
Exactly Right Network.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Thank you to you listeners. We've said it a million times,
but we're gonna say it again. Thank you, thank you, thank.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
You, and a special shout out as always to our patrons.
Your support means the world to us.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Totally wow. Well, until next time, wash your hands you
feel the animals