March 20, 2025 • 56 mins
UCBLK's Justin Catchens joins us to celebrate one of his favorite albums of the '00s, Lupe Fiasco's Food & Liquor, the debut album by the Chicago-based rapper-turned-MIT-and-Johns Hopkins University professor!
Food & Liquor is as dense with prose as a classic work of literature, and we do our best to wrap our heads around the storytelling and social/political messages in Lupe's lyrics. We also discuss Lupe's connection to the 'conscious rap' genre, why this album was his commercial peak and how hip hop never fully embraced him.
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
Connect with us on Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast.
(Episode 29.)
Food & Liquor is as dense with prose as a classic work of literature, and we do our best to wrap our heads around the storytelling and social/political messages in Lupe's lyrics. We also discuss Lupe's connection to the 'conscious rap' genre, why this album was his commercial peak and how hip hop never fully embraced him.
Subscribe so you don't miss an episode of At First Listen!
Connect with us on Instagram @AtFirstListenPodcast.
(Episode 29.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Welcome to At First Listen, the music podcast for people
who don't always get the hype but want to. I'm Andrew,
I'm Dominique. We are your co hosts, and today our
guest is Justin Cashens.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, Justin Heaves, Dona, How you do?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We are good. Justin is a Baroklyn based comedian who's
been featured in Fulture, Time Out, and at the New
York Comedy Festival. He can be seen performing improv weekly
on Harald Night at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater also
known as You See Bee, and performing stand up all
around New York City. Justin and I also co host
(00:55):
Ucy Black with fellow comedian Champagnant. You See Black is
a monthly all black variety show, which we'll talk more
about at the end of the episode. But first we're
gonna get into loop A Fiasco's Food and Liquor.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, the stock of us some food and liquor. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So Justin, this was your pick? This album is gonna
be twenty years old soon.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, I didn't even realize.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
That we got these anniversaries. They're coming up and it's scary.
So what made you pick this album?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I was trying to think of impactful albums, albums I
ran back a lot throughout my life that I remember,
and this is definitely one of the more influential albums
that I've had in my life. This is around like
high school into high school for me. Uh yeah, And
when I went back and relistened to the whole thing,
I realized, like, oh, I still know the verses. I
(01:50):
still remember like the vibe when I was first playing
these songs. So it's just really an album I love.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Dominique made a point the other day that this album
is so dense.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's like a book. It's like a work of literature.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So for you to be memorizing versus is pretty Is
this the only album that you have that recall with.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, I have some other albums, like some Danny Brown
albums I have, but that's like the complete opposite of
loopay Fiasco. That's more scumbag it rap. This is more
like I'm reading a book and I understand global politics. Yeah,
so you got to serve both the masters there. But yeah,
(02:36):
I really really enjoyed this album. Also. I feel like,
in terms of albums, I was thinking that it sits
at an interesting point in like rap and the growth
of WRAP, especially now like Loupay the some of the
stuff Wrap Loupe was rapping about some of this stuff,
like the references to Japanese fashion and all that anime
(02:57):
stuff that was I was a getting more pop, but
it's now fully mainstream pop culture, where in two thousand
and six this is like the fringes of rap. This
is alternative quote unquote backpack nerd rap.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Do you think you kind of grew up with him
in a way, like it seems like you were around
the same age as he is, Like was when he
came out, like.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Not to so so movement was nineteen when he signed
his first record deal, but he wasn't nineteen when this
album came out.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah he was, Yeah, he was in his twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, so I don't feel the age kinship with him,
but it feels like of the same time, if that
makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, So when you heard some of the references, was
that sort of your way into this record or was
it like you heard a single, got the record and
then you were like, oh, I feel like I know
this guy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
No, I'm a I'm a big internet head, which is
a wild thing to say. I was online I've always
been online. I had a computer very young at AOL
when I was like six, So I've always been online.
I've always been on round.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So you know the dial up sound by heart. Yeah,
that's one of those verses that you memorized. Yeah, there
you go, a freestyling over a dollarp song. It was
a free idea. But yeah, so I was online a
lot and loope. If you remember, at this time, Loupe
was like very very hyped in the rap circles because
he he was featured on was it Touch This Guy?
(04:26):
Kanye song?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, maybe second album, I think, so that verse was like, oh,
who is this kid? He also was dropping a lot
of mixtapes at the time. I think he had like
there's like Revenge of the Nerds, there's some other ones.
So he was he was coming up big in the
mixtape scene. He's had a Kanye and Pharrell co sign.
So this was this album was like highly anticipated. You
(04:51):
did number one on the rap chart. I think you
peaked at number eight overall, and then I saw number
two on the there's like a R and B hip
hop chart where I don't know if that is a
specific category or it just combines. I have no idea
what that is.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
But it was number two, and I think the number
one record, the record that beat Food and Liquor was
Beyonce's B Day go Off.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I love that they're in the same vertical.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, how times have changed. I feel like a
lot of the stuff that he talks about is like
with fashion, but also like political topics. Is a lot
more stuff that's like in the zeitgeist right now and
a lot less in music now. It's like you put
it on Twitter, but he's still putting it in the songs.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
He's touching on issues, he's tackling, he's commenting on America,
he's commenting on relationships, all that stuff. So yeah, I
really loute down and it's like, I know, also more
lower about the album before we dive into it, is
that it was a big thing that it was leaked
before it was supposed to come out. There's like the
(06:02):
if real heads know, like the Food and Liquor leaked
version where it has maybe like five or six songs
that aren't on this and then that never made it
and I ended up on like mixtapes or all mixtapes
and stuff. And the early Internet debates are like which
one is better. The Leaked one was a classic? What
is the studio one? Still? Like all that stuff?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Well, it makes sense because there's a thousand people on
this album, Like every single person in the Midwest collaborated
on this, and we'll get more into that later. I
wanted to know if you're so you're from the.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Midwest, Yeah, from right outside Detroit.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So I wanted to know if that had an effect
on your connection or understanding of his music or this album.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I think so less consciously than I probably perceived, but
it definitely had to just it is this major city
right next to it. Yeah. I had friends at Columbia
in Chicago, like the art school kids, so very close
to like this type of rap. So it was it
was ingrain and I always listened to the Chicago rap
(07:09):
or it came around me like it was a do
or die twist stuff like that, so you get Chicago
rap naturally.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I'm trying to figure out, like if there is a
conscious rap thing go that go that happened in Chicago
or potentially continued that isn't as popular now, but like
I just feel like the more that I kind of
look into it, and the term conscious rap is controversial, yeah,
(07:40):
because it implies unconscious rap. But I do think that
there's you know, something to be said for like a
lot of rap as it's become more mainstream, it's a
lot more poppy and like more party oriented, more fun.
And this is not getting played at a party. Maybe
it was, you know, at the kickbacks of the early
(08:01):
two thousands. But all that being said, I think it's
really interesting that it seems like, you know, Kanye at
the time.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
This conscious is something yeah, common common, Yeah, major Chicago
rapper I think is like influential and they're like conscious
rap is a controversial term for that reason, and also
there's like anxiety a controversy. Conscious rap as bad, like
sonically bad, like the stereotypical, like lyrical miracle type of rap.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
It's like stop saying so many words and do.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
A song, Yeah, but with like beats that are kind
of like low budget, grimy, and you like have to
be in the weeds, like if you're listening to like
Gino XL or Mortal Technique.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I was just wondering is a Mortal technique also from Chicago.
This is something I'm like googling this because that would
be really funny.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
But I know there's Harlem.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Who is it am Mortal technique?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Oh yeah, famously bullied Lin Lynn Manuel Miranda in high school.
If you've never read that story, Oh my god. There's
like there's just like some like interview with him or
Lynn Menuel where he was like, yeah, I got bullied
in high school about his rapper mortal technique.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I I can't. I'm like, whoa. I'm like, wow, he
should have bullied him more.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Maybe there's even tears among the nerd rappers because immortal
technique hierarchy there that I never knew about.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, he's a truly problematic man, but I was very
into him at the time.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Not important, but you're also into Loop A fi I'm.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Very into Loop a Fiasco. Yeah, I mean I think
I definitely was like not memorizing lyrics like you. When
I came back to it, I really thought I would
know all these songs, but it was it was like
how you remember a book that you read ten years ago.
You're like, Okay, I remember this, I remember this part,
(10:07):
but I didn't remember how it went down because there's
just like so much in there. Yeah, I definitely was.
I was really excited to get back into it. I
did not realize how dense it was. I think I
was just enjoying the music at the time. I would
get into the hits, but like every song it.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Is even a bit of an assignment. I didn't realize, like,
oh I vibed these, but even listening back and like
there's like three songs in a row that are just
extended metaphors, like that's not it's not like he's rapping
about something simple. It's full.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
No. I know this is the first time because we've
we've talked about some complex artists, but none with such
complex lyrics. And and it's interesting because they're not confusing.
They're just like very there's just packed in there. There's
they're mainly stories, but they're kind of like vignettes almost.
(11:06):
But for the first time, I would like, at least
for the music videos because I thought, hopefully those will
get me more context. I think they just gave me
more information to know that was.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
There's one music video that was just like a bunch
of sad facts.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, yes, wait, which you think that's some.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
He SAIDs she's says, she said, I'm yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Honest, I didn't know they made a video for that
that is.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It wasn't on his official YouTube.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
No, it was on some random YouTube page that somebody
was like, I just love this song, and but I
put the music video up and then I put the
lyrics up next to it, and I had my notebook out,
and I was like, Okay, what's going on here? I
don't know if it helps.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I mean, I guess Loupe is partially responsible for the
website US. Then like, what does this mean? Somebody put
the lyrics in.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Straight up? I was like, yeah, Kendrick could never he
wishes like he's not comparing to this amount of narrative
storytelling at all, no offense, sir, love it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So I let's take a break in a minute and
get into the actual track list. Will play some music
to jog people's memories. I just want to say, though,
I loved this pick of Lupe Fiasco. He's an artist
that for a long time have been curious about and
just never got around to checking you checking him out.
(12:34):
I read I don't know when, this was, probably ten
years ago, an interview with his bass player Bubby Lewis
and a bass magazine And so Bubby is He's played
with Stevie Wonder a bit but he's also played mainly
plays with Loupe and Snoop Dogg. And I remember it
(12:54):
was just like a quick Q and A. It was
not like a full feature story where they asked him like,
what are the differences between playing with Lupe Fiasco and
and he's like, well, it's way more fun to play
with Lupe Fiasco. When you play with Snoop Dogg. There's
about four other guys on keyboards that if you mess
up the bass part, they're like, oh, I'll play bass instead,
(13:18):
And if you try to improvise, Snoop is like, no,
that's not how it goes. And with Loope, he's just
like solo the whole time, just just go crazy, like
the crazier the better. And I was like, oh, I
love to hear what that guy's music is like. And
then I don't know, a decade went by and finally
someone else suggested I listened to it.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, he's such a collaborative artist.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
All right, So we'll be right back and we'll talk
about some of the songs on the Liquor.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
And we're back on that first listen.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
And we're here with our guest Justin Katchens talking.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
About food and Licter by Luke bi Fiasco.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So the first song that you wanted to bring up
was this skate park anthem.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Do we say kick push? I dedicate this right hand,
So I'm a homie scene.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
There's a lot of strings in the tracks on this album,
which is maybe part of the backlash for conscious rap
because they used all these orchestral sounds to make it
sound really intellectual.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I'm just obsessed that he can't stop thanking his friends
and bringing up people he loves, like you can't stop
like every bit of this every bit of this album
is I dedicate this one right here. He's dedicating it
to everyone all the time, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Not he maintained that his friend for producer whatever Chili free,
Chili Free Chill is like on every album of his
from this era. I think is a guy who just
got out of prison like last year or something.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Whoa for real? Yeah so there was a guy who
was in prison.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah for a while? Wow, you know, as as always
like the conscious is closer than the street than most
people realize. I mean this, even this song is about
skateboarding but also about drug building.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I was curious, like do you skate? What's your Do
you have a connection with this? You just love this song.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I just liked the song. Not a skater, never was
a skater, never had a skateboard at most. I got
into BMX around the time of X Games and uh,
Matt Hoffman that somebody, it's not Dustin Hoffman. There was
a famous BMX biker at the time named Dustin Hall.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
A famous movie start Wow double people don't know Yeah,
people on.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
The pegs is a menace. But so I I really
wasn't and especially at this time, I was not I
wasn't even doing that. So but this I just messed
with this on it's song, which is hard to be
I was like, oh, I like the beat is like
very jazzy and cool. It's like a little story to it,
like the video everybody think about it is like, oh
this is this is smooth.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
It's like this was the first track on the album
where I was like, Okay, this is this sounds like
it might have been a hit. This this is like
the first track that.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I'm really enjoying.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's a very very creative, like like you said, Dominique
vignette where he's telling this story but through like the
skateboard culture. Yeah, I it's like a love story.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It is a love story. It's a total love story.
I it was the first Loop a Fiasco song I
ever heard. For sure. It's the main one that stuck
in my memory, partially because I remember downloading it on
LimeWire ooh and putting it onto a mixed CD that
I gave my crush who was a skateboarder, and I
(17:04):
was really living the fantasy of like the romance. I
was not a skateboarder.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Back of that skateboard. That's what I wanted to somewhere.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That's what I wanted. I wanted it so bad. But
I rode a skateboard once and I ripped my jeans.
I was like, fun this, No.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
It feels like as a non skateboarder, as Steve Hill,
to get on get good enough on a skateboard to
do it publicly, like to be able to stop and
like turn and I look like.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I had a lot of skater friends in high school,
and they never looked like they were doing it well.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
They would do it.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
They would skate all the time and it'd just be
like the loudest noise you've ever heard. They would curse
and maybe like get up and they had like a
their skin, their knee or something like that. It didn't
actually look very fun. Like the one kid who was
good at it. I was like, oh, you should actually
play real sports.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Oh I had. There was like a lot of pretty
serious skaters and but uh, like they would always be
showing up to school with broken arms and stuff. And
I was like, hmm, I don't think I want that. Actually,
I definitely think there's like.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I fell down a hundred sta you know what. But
they get up?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
No, And I never was about that life.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
And they were taking advantage of that insurance that their
parents had.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Right, they did have. They must have had great insurance,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Building in that habit of going to the doctor early.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I think he I think, get your check up and
also meet your deductor.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I think that. No, this song really like it made
me think about how I really identified with it as
like a teen like lover, you know, with a crush,
and how now coming back to it and watching the
music video, how being like an a kid at private school,
(19:02):
I did not identify with his struggle in the least.
I wasn't even a skater, but like this song did
make me feel like I was a part of it,
and I think that there is there's like that is
a beautiful thing as an artist, But there's also that
funny thing of like this like hip hop culture becoming
(19:23):
something that like a broader audience, like a white audience
could identify with, and that he was like welcoming to that.
But maybe it was a slippery slope. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
But also for this song that he's not he's not
saying I throughout it, so he's probably he probably is
a skater or or from that culture. Otherwise why would
he write this song. But like he is, he is
seeming to tell a story like from a third person,
you know, point of view.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, it's like a it is very clear.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
But I don't feel like a lot of rappers then
are now really te all stories like that? You know,
It's it's usually always from the I perspective, right.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I mean a lot of modern songs. Now there's radio songs,
but that's modern rap radios in saying it at this point,
but yeah, just for a single is a is a move,
especially a single in two thousand and six, especially which
is the height not height but very much crunk era. Uh,
we're getting at this point a Little John everything after
(20:30):
Oh my god, being in high school when that sketch
came out and I was like, oh, they discovered them,
and it was just nine years like even after Little
John's music was not VI.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
It started to peter out and then turned down for
what came, and he was just back and he was like,
there's no getting rid of me.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, I think. But I think that kind of contributed
to the popular edit of the song too, because this
song was very playing the car, which your parents friendly
in a way that was like not that you don't
feel like you're compromising your taste in music, and your
parents are like, oh, good vibe with this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Pre recession, you know, deep in the Bush administration moment.
I think subprime mortgage is left and right exactly totally.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Which I think he's wrapped about on later albums.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
That's what we want tell us about the financial crisis.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
You know. Southern rap, it was all like it's the
South is all spread out, and so we're all and
everyone's just in their cars, chilling and you're not really
like witnessing the horror horrors of society as much as
you are in these like dense cities where there's all
this industry. You really see it right away. I know
(21:46):
we're seeing it around us now in New York.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, you get the sense that the album was made
with a goal where it is all sort of telling
the same story, and he's looking at it from for
an angles And there's not a lot of profanity on
this record. I was thinking, there's not even a lot
of slang, which is one of the barriers to entry,
(22:11):
I think to a lot of white people for modern
day hip hop is the slang. There's the words that
you don't understand.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Do you have a list? Because we can answer those
questions for you right here, right now.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Well, I don't even consider that.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But like I'm trying to, like when we were talking
about See China, Oh yeah, I mean that's a great
example of like we're outsiders to this UK rap girl
her culture in the UK. Yes, and then so we're
trying to parse like what is like British slang, what
is like street slang? What is she just making up
(22:47):
because it fits her rhyme scheme?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Right? And then what is like internet girl culture with
like oh, because we have all these like niche niches
that we're in Now. That's a good point, Andrew.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Thanks, that's not getting cut out.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So on that note. Yeah, the next one you want
to talk about was he say? She say? And I
think that makes a lot of sense on this topic
because he is talking about like it's coming out of
a kid's mouth. At least in the music video. He's
like talking from a kid's perspective. This iconic part of
(23:27):
the song.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Okay, so this is featuring Gemini and Sarah Green, so
it's not even a lot of Lupe Fiasco on this record.
I know.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
He just as choruses. It's like a duet.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, she said, so I want you to be your father?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Oh man. So I don't know why I connected with
this song so much, but I did. I remember distinctly.
I would play this in college in the car and
I would love that. And at one point my buddy
Isaac was just like, hey, dog, well you keep playing
this song is sad.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It's like, oh my justin we were I was like,
oh no, is he okay?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
He picked the saddest songs. It's pretty melancholy.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I know my dad, like I talked to him.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I didn't want to ask, but I did. I did
make me.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I was like, huh, come, it'll come out.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
He didn't. We did grow I didn't grow up in
the same household. But it wasn't like at any point
I could have called him anyone I answered the phone,
So like, there's not like I didn't necessarily connect to
this story and like very literally, like you know, obviously
there's some points to it, but I think this is
me discovering that I like storytelling and like a narrative,
(24:49):
because the premise of the song is this, it's the
same exact verse twice, but from the first verses from
the mother's perspective and then the second verse is from
the kids perspective. So he's just you know, like flipping
pronouns essentially, and it's I don't know that like affected me,
And I was like, oh man, this all is like
dope and it's like just changing around. So that little
(25:13):
bit of the song like effects so much, meaning, you know,
just it connected with me. But it's not it's not
a banger.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
It's not like I'm not ambiguity either.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
No, it's very just like straight to your heart.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That's a good point though, justin because I also I
feel like, uh, similarly about my dad we had, you know,
my parents were divorced, and but my dad's cool joint custody,
you know, but like, uh, there was often a dynamic
(25:51):
of my mom being like, you don't check her homework
when she's over your place, and like that feeling that
many of us have of like do we really know
our dads? So I think that there is there is
this sense, you know when we were, when you're a
kid and you're trying to connect with this guy and
(26:13):
then you're seeing something told through a kid's perspective in
this like very adult context, that it is effective in
that way.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, and we're you know, at that age, you're always
looking for as song as you kind of like connect
to in some way, and I guess a lot of
that a lot of people connected to pop punk stuff
or like the angst there and I don't know, this
is a song I connected with, sure.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And then the next one up his daydream and this
was I think you want to Grammy for this one.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So it starts with this like I should have looked
up with the.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Sample I meant to I forgot.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
So that's this very like soul R and B song.
This video is nuts. I can't believe this is the one.
I send you the screenshot from Yeah, where he's dancing
with a He's.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Dancing with the robot.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
He's describing, Yeah, he mentions robot and all of a
sudden there's a CGI robot behind him in the song.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Well, I think this song is amazing. I love hearing
the song every time that you know where he's kind
of came out of, like the I guess for lack
of better than the Kanye school, So you get samples
and it's just an incredible sample. The if you just
listen to the sample, it's cool, like that adream part
it slaps Jill Scott singing on it is amazing on
(27:46):
the song and it's just it's a giant metaphor about
a robot, but it's actually the hood, which is interesting.
And I think, what is it like from a leg
arm and in like eyes like each verse, oh really,
I forget exactly what it is. But he like he
starts each verse with like I stare from the robot's
(28:08):
eyes or like started at the leg something and man,
this is what I tho ones like, let me look
at the article, like what exactly he's talking about? But yeah, man,
this song is. I think the song is a banger.
I always want to hear this song and yeah, it's
this is Loupe and his I'm a writer bag.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah it's confusing. I think it's Wallleas Connection nineteen sixty nine.
Nice Daydream. It's a beautiful song.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
How did you feel about this song? The robot thing
really distracted?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
But I think where I struggle with hip hop is
the same like four bar loop over and over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And this is one of the songs on this.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Record where the musical arrangement actually develops a little bit,
like there is sort of a bridge kind of a section,
which for a four minute hip hop song, really helps
for me to break it up and keep my attention.
And like you can't argue with with Jill Scott's voice,
it's so perfect on this one.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
He gets even more like poetic in this song where
he's not he's not really telling a story. He's kind
of like saying stuff like it's vibes. I couldn't say
what any of these lyrics actually, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
It says like he's like describing it because there's like
a line like crooked police stay stationed at the knees
and they do drive vibes like of an end of
thigh's Like, that's just he's like describing a hood there.
And then some of it is like those stories or
like little vignettes in there, like this is just very
flowery language to describe a neighborhood or.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's what I'm getting. It's not like it's not like
a it's not like a narrative in the way that
some of these other songs are, Like the next one
we're gonna talk about he sucked, but he's it's very
on the of the general loope ethos, like come on, everybody,
let's make cocaine cool. We need a few more naked
half naked women up in the pool. That's his. That's
(30:10):
his like real little bit of hater ration because he's
not I don't think he's a hater, but he is.
He does like he is like I'm not like that.
I'm not like materialistic like those other rappers.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, which is interesting because it's like he is materialists.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
We talked about it before, but like Loupe is, he's
again Kanye, He's in that vertical he was making like
bape cool before, Like he's one of the first bape people.
A lot of his songs he mentions like Japanese high
fashion at school now, like you go yard bags, which
are you have to go to Japan and buy him
(30:50):
and they're like thousands of dollars. He's talking rapping about
like Yogi Yamamoto clothing like, which is very like high fashion,
expensive stuff. He just wasn't doing the classic rapper with
chains and grills stuff, and he does call it out.
I find that annoying as hell. I never liked the
utter word dreams. I'm bit better than that because I
(31:10):
was always trying to be conscious of not being that dude,
because I was like, that is a dweet and I
can't be that guy. But he doesn't do it too much.
And if so, it's like, all right, you can get
you a little issue off, but the song is still
good and it's not corny. Most importantly is corny.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
No, And that's the whole thing, Like, just deliver something
good and we'll let you We'll let some stuff slide.
He was defending himself to some degree because he was
like because people were saying that his stuff wasn't cool,
and I remember that happening to me in my earlier
fashion days as a fashion youth that people would be like,
you're weird, why are you wearing that? And I'll be like,
(31:48):
you just don't get it, and they didn't get it,
and it did become cool later.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
So like I and nowadays, all those people look like.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Shit exactly they do and there you can see that
on face book where they still post and I'm not
salty about it, but they like. I think there's also
a cool thing with what you're just talking about, justin
that this was his first album. There was no way
he was affording go yard like he was talking about.
(32:15):
It was aspirational for the most.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Party, like, where's he getting his money?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
He didn't have it. He didn't have it. He had friends,
that's what we know he had. He had record deals
that I don't think we're making him rich at the time. No.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Famously, famously he complains about this, the record deal that
he is on in this album. I think around the
third or fourth it becomes a big thing about Lubay
and his record deals. You can read a lot about
lube complaining about his record deals and he has. You know,
he says some.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Things, it's cheaper to wear a fake chain. You can
always wear a fake chain, but fake go yard is
harder to come by, so The Cool Cool. I love
how he starts with a thesis statement every song.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I don't think I caught that before.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
In the same suit that he was buried in, similar
to the one his grandfather was married in.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes, he was still fresh to death.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Blame again talking about talking to third person or second person,
not first person.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
That's what I am, not first I think it could
be either a second.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, well third person is when you say the name.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, but he's he describes other things too, yeah right, yeah,
but yeah. This this song gets straight up storytelling about
a guy who gets a name because the Cool is
the name of his next album, uh and which has
a sequel it is and more songs that reference But like,
I guess he created a character Michael Young history. I
(33:46):
guess because it sounds like Mike Cool. It sounds like
the Cool.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I have no not beating the conscious rap allegations there.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
It's a song about dead gangster skeleton that comes back
to life or dead gangster. It goes back to life
and basically goes back to his own block and gets
shot by the The new Gangster is there just as
a commentary on how like the streets don't love you.
How the game is like it's like quick money fast,
(34:15):
like they'll replace you, forget about you. It's a it's
not the path to take. It's kind of uncle vibes.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Thank you for that context because I I did. I Yeah,
I like I said, I studied, I studied the text,
and I would not have caught. I did not catch
that this was a ghost situation.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, because I mean and the lyrics too. It mentions
is like, it mentions like his skeleton like has fallen off.
The chain's falling off his skeleton, and like he's got
a haggard but like the descriptions of her all was like, Oh,
he's still cool. He's still cool. And then like he
meets these gangsters like who the hell are you and
a pull out a gun and shoot him. Obviously it's
not a real story. He was a zombie. They were scared.
(34:54):
But it's just like, oh, he's he's this cool guy.
I know, way to give a ship after after he died,
like you just that's it. Yeah, But I really like
this song is also like this Glupe storytelling. It sets
up the second album or this character, and like it's
the second album does more stuff that's kind of like, uh,
(35:17):
I guess interrogating this idea of coolness or like the streets.
It's like there's way more stories that are like directly
close to this song, where this one is more. This
album is touching more or more things. It also it
sounds good. I like to beat. I like the story.
The story is easy to follow, even though like he's
doing this like metaphor storytelling.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
It's a great song. I think it was easy to
fall like. I think that's something that's great about these
songs is it's easy to follow then then you can
dig deeper into it. I'm like, I need a graphic novel.
I think this would make it good.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I think this would be a pretty good graphic novel.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, I think that. Yeah, maybe we should pitch that,
Loupe if you're listening. I don't know how to make
graphic novels.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But he describes too. He described to shooting. He's like,
what I think I remember now, because I'm like, how
much of a song do I actually remember? It's like, yeah,
he came back to the spot six months after he shot, Yeah,
something like that. So it's like it's even details like
that about this song, I remember it really stuck with
me for some reason.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Well, speaking of great beats, I think the best one
is on the American Terrorist, which is the last one
that you picked out for us. This is one of
this in the track before pressure have like the most
prominent bass lines.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah on the record bass player bias.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, bass player bias.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
But I also think I think something that rap loses
at times during periods is the funk. Sometimes the funk
gets a little bit pushed aside, and you want more funk,
And I want more of the funk.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
You want like the Butterfly.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, yeah, I want a baseline. It's not like just
an eight o eight isn't enough and a high hat
like I want that. I want it to move on
the bottom, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
I love how I guess it's Matthew Santos's he's the
featured artist. I love how he pronounces So would you
have ever would you have ever been able to figure
out what he is saying?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Honestly, he didn't see the title of the song, Yes,
but I would have thought he's saying American Terrorist in
another language. And I'm still not sure he's not saying that. Yeah,
it sounds too close to it. But that like I
was like, oh, even listening now, I don't know if
that's another language that just sounds those two words sound
the same minute, or it's just putting off on the vowels.
(38:04):
Oh yeah, I mean he goes he gets leewayo this
track to go off. There's a runs on here. So
and this is this is a song where it's like, Okay,
he's meeting your conscious expectations to handle him. There's nothing
in this song that's open to interpretation. It's I mean,
the chorus is straight up. They make what they want
to make, they take whatever they want to take.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, he's talking about capitalism, this treatment of Native Americans. Yeah,
like the crack epidemic, domestic terrorism.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Well, kluck plan al Kaida, we got seven forty sevens.
We got it all in here. I like, if this
is one of those songs that comes up and you're like, damn,
we're really doing with the same exact issues.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
This song is present roughly.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
No changes, Just change anthrax to COVID or something, and
that's basically the only update you need to make.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, that's I mean, look, the sign of good art
is you can parallel it to COVID. I watched Jalls
for the first time and I was like, oh, this
is COVID. This is Beach covid, right each covid, this
is Anthraxico, everything is COVID. This. I like this song.
It's I think it captures a lot of things I
like about Loupe. It is like there's not a quote
(39:25):
unquote for lack of better turn woke, scold typey thing.
It's just like this is what it is, kind of
like I don't know if you know, like most Death's
New World water or like which is just about like
water rights which. But it's like a good song. It's
not a boring song.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I was a Blackstar fan. Oh yeah, so he gets
into some stuff too, but go on, Oh.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, they shouldn't be on the internet. We got to
keep somebody takeaway to lives.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Internet comments on my sister's Instagram. So he has a
he's a homie, so you know, be careful. No, he's
really interestra.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
He's gotten in some trouble for saying something that women
will lie.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, they need to be grounded.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
A common problem with the people. What they we call
it conscious. They had a old blind spot for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
No, but I I I gotta say, I really think
that Lupe is a great a great inspiration for people
to put put the stuff in the song. Don't go
on Twitter and say it like do do your job
and we will. We will like accept it because he
(40:38):
he really and I don't know, you know, his personal life,
and I love that. I don't want to know it.
Like I like the controversy. The controversies are relatively small
compared to his actual like, uh discography and impact.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah you mentioned it. I think we did it a
now I'm looking at the track is like, yeah it is.
His album isn't about Loupe at all. It's just like
from the perspective of a loop a similar I guess
to an ail matic is ol mad It just like
I'm reporting on the things I see that is very
very little.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Go dow to Loope Fiasco live from the South Side
of Chicago, Right, I have all these friends here. They're
gonna sing you the news and I'm gonna interpret.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
But he also make sure like the Chicago but also
the world looking totally country. So yeah, this song just
a bit a button, honey. I like the song, but
and if you want to know more about it, just
listen to it. It is everything is spelled out it everything.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, I was saying, if it was a different artist,
I would have like checked out way more of his
work and way more of his current work before now
did not have time. I was I was locked in
just like getting this like a digesting it, and I
like did research on his some interview. I'm really excited
(42:02):
to like to look at the other stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
It gets interesting. He's had an interesting career because that this,
this is like the hype point the next album was.
I would say equally, he's well received. It's not like
this is considered New York classic. I don't think the coolest,
but it's like a very great, great album. And then
he released Lasers, which is his most commercial one and
(42:27):
album I hate, but especially a thing that is was
more in rap, like you got to make the commercial one.
That one seemed like somebody came to him and said,
you got to make a commercial album. So some of
the stuff is like this is everything.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Got to make up the money you lost on that record.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yeah, everything is like bigger and more obviously singly where
it's just like a lot more songs like that, which
seems and then I think around then that was like
the height of his success. He never like this appeared.
He just kind of slowly got less popular. He also
(43:04):
continued to speak up politically. He was a strong critic
of Barack Obama for his policy in the Middle East.
He's also for Chicago, and I think he criticized Obama
at is an inauguration or like or at a performance.
It was something where like he criticized the yeah, yeah,
(43:27):
which is this right? And I'm not criticized that. But
I think around then there was a lot of stuff
and then it never ramped straight up for I think
from then he kind of just went like, this is Lupe.
He's a dude who can rap, and now and now
he has you know, there's recent albums like Tetsio and Youth,
more anime references. There's like Murals. There's a song on there.
(43:48):
It's a ten minute rap song. If you like, if
you like metaphors and like flowery storytelling, listen to the Murals.
But it's just him like rapping for ten minutes saying
the it's incredibly technically impressive and it's like interesting, but
it's like adventures into super rap.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, that's not the feedback I would want on my art.
It's technically impressive.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
No, it's a very good way too long. I like,
I like what he's doing, but it's hard to call something.
It's a good song. It's ten minutes and it's not
like like you said, funk. It's not like I don't know,
like Magga Braid or something where it's just like it's vibing.
You're kind of you're listening to this song right, like
the's active, the Marvin Gaye song, got to give it up,
(44:36):
same rift the whole time. It's a two part song.
It's like twenty minute song, but it's funky.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, but it's like, yeah, edit.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That's the one that Robin thickkrifted off for Farrell.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Oh really for blurred lines? Oh yeah yeah. Speaking of
long songs, we'll get to one of my favorite parts
of the album outro.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I could not I could not finish that.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I live, I don't I love, I love you know,
bring it back around. He loves his friends. I love
a guy who loves like he. I think there is
there there is a thing in hip hop. I don't
have the encyclopedic knowledge to bring it up of like
name and a lot of people. Yeah, jmies, Yeah, Kanye
(45:21):
did it. And then there's also the time where you
shout out your enemies as well. At Tupac, I can
think of, you know, fuck this guy, fuck that guy,
can bleep that out. He really goes into it and
I and it.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
It's like it's like thirteen minutes of basically the album credits.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, no, yeah, And then my favorite part is like
a part in the middle where he's like, I'm not
gonna name any names.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
That might have been the point at which I actually
looked down to see where I was because I just
had the album on letting it go.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
We're in this outro. Oh, this is very cute.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
He's naming all these people, naming like the promo people
at the label, he's naming people in radio. I'm listening
a little bit more intently. I'm like, oh, maybe he'll
mention someone I know. And then this is going on
for geez a long time. Yeah, And I look down
and I see there's like six minutes left, and I
(46:18):
think maybe I scrubbed it to see if there was
like a hidden track or something at the end. This
was in the era where that could have been front
that was from the CD. You know there might be
a twenty minute song at the end and it's like
mostly silence, but then there's a little song at the end.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Nope, yep. So I'm like, I can't do it. I
love that. Andrew, you got the experience we all got
when this came out, where we were listening like ohm
in his beat it's dope, and oh he's gonna tell
a story like Kanye's Last Call whatever, he'll get into
a rap and then you're in it for and you're like, man,
I really like this beat. I hope he starts rapping
on it, and he just does not. I will say
(46:54):
this is a funny thing about this. I listened to
this whole album maybe twice in the last week. Never
once listen to the outra. Once I heard the outra,
just turn it.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Off, justin not a total freak.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, not a real fan like me. I didn't listen
to I listened to him.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
You spent too much time studying the outro. You could
have studied no.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Well, and yeah, not to mention the intro, which is
also boring and annoying in a but in a in
a more in a different way. It just like says
so much about him and the more I learn about him,
like it's so authentic, Like to us it's annoying. But
each of those people felt good. Probably some of them
(47:33):
probably were not. I mean, like jay Z knew that
he was thanked, but like he is this collaborative guy
and it was it was important to him. You don't
have to put like if you make a painting, you
don't have to like also list all the names to.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Think my paint supply.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, exactly, you don't need it in.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
The thing, but my brush endorser exactly. All Right, let's
take a break and we'll wrap it up with Justin
after this.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
And we're back that first listen. I'm Dominique, I'm Andrew,
and we are gonna talk more with Justin about what's
up with him.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
I just want to say before that a successful episode.
I think this episode did exactly what I want every
episode to do, where I'm more interested in the music.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
It's a bit of a paradox.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
I'm more interested in the artists after we're done talking
about it than.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I was sort of before.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Hell yeah, like I'm gonna listen to probably American Terrorists
and a few of these other tracks.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
And I'm gonna go follow some loop Basie Fiasco social
media if you want. It's surprise, surprise, no one. He's
a sword guy. He's like, I mean his last album
was Samurai, which is an album that is ridden from
the perspective of Amy Winehouse if she was a battle rapper,
(49:12):
which is true. So he's one of the If you
don't think he can get deeper into himself, he does.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
I didn't think that. I didn't doubt it for a.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Sec A sword guy.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Why it's it's funny because there's gun guy and sword guy,
very different guys well swords. Sometimes they come together. Sometimes
there's a guy who's both and that guy you report.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
To the Yeah, that's a scary guy.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
But this is head guy. He had a natural progression
from sword guy.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Is like, amusing, you're not stabbing anyone with a sword.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Knew you knew he's dug. He's a Japano file black
dude from Chicago. Of course, if it comes into he
goes big into samurai and sword guy, he's like a
He's like, yasuh, yeah, redhead of Samurai, that's me now,
Like that's that's what he's on.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, No, I needing where is the anime like this
has to come soon. I'm honestly surprised it doesn't exist
as a He's a man with friends and.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
That some of them surely can draw, right.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
And that's what's maintained his his his career, I think,
is his connection with different people.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
And it's like musically there's like a direct link between
Loupe Fiasco's popularity and like the current popularity of say
Kendrick Lamar and A's Tyler a creator on like each side.
So it's like he's like a rappers rapper in that sense.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
One might say Loope walked so that Kendrick could run.
Hey not you guys, but I said it.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
I was looking at Justin for confirmation. Yeah, nothing, there's
in some ways. Look, Kendrick has some hit songs. They
were like, what do you what is how is this
a hit song? He's just rapping about something.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, you really don't know?
Speaker 2 (50:59):
And was I greatly enjoy it. But I'm just like, oh,
people like this too cool?
Speaker 1 (51:03):
So Justin, is there anything you want to any last
things we can get out of you? I know that
you recently debuted a hit. Maybe it's a hit with me?
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah? At our at the comedy show we go. I
took my foray in a musical comedy and did a
parody of parodies a pastiche I.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Don't know us.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Or whatever, butted of Nellie's EI, and I had a
great idea, what if it was Nelly's a song about
the e I? And I performed that and no one
bowed me off stage taking all right, I was like,
(51:57):
so I considered that a success. I consider myself a
musical comedian and related to Louvey. Every time I tried
some rate lyrics for it, I was like, this has
to be somewhat funny, but also this can't be corny.
I hope to god this is not corny.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
I think it's truly a stroke of genius because the song,
there's a way that you made it. You made it
less corny, like because Nelly is corny and that song
is a classic, but it also is like it's Nelly,
so it's a little corny and you but you made it.
You brought it to the current times and it fits perfectly.
(52:33):
D E I E I because also what is e I?
It's nothing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
It's probably some maybe broken Spanish. Yeah that's a picture.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
All I'm hearing that's that must be it, right. I
think it's the It's the updated conscious rap of our generation.
One might say, I'm not a conscious rap.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
All I'm saying is DEI is a conscious topic. You're awake,
you're not asleep. You are not a sheeple Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Oh we go in old school woke. The definition of
we're going two thousand.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
And six definition, that exact definite.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
That is funny because like that is how I would
describe Lupe up until the point where you can't use
that word anymore. I think that's what I would use
in stet of conscious is like on a woke wrap,
which is which felt better, But now it's like, you know,
obviously we lost that.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I think people who are.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Anymore we lost that. And air Force one rippy.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I think like people under eighteen might not have the
negative connotation of consciousness. Maybe maybe we can ask them
how they feel about this term lupeg.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Is he talking about the issues he does?
Speaker 1 (53:50):
No, I was saying, we could do a whole episode
just on one of these songs, and.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
We're not going.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
We're not going too so you guys of a show
at the end of the month.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
We do it's on April. Nope, this is.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, No, it's not Apripril.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
There's one and I try to get you to say
the wrong day, yes, because its.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
For my show.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yes. No, this is a very a sad time that
we Andrew won't be able to come. But it's March
twenty ninth at eight thirty at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater,
Union Square. Can get tickets on the UCB website. Our
instagram is UCBLK show.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
Yeah, there's a website ucblk dot com you can go
get tickets. There's also you know, if you want to
go to Andrew show. It's a monthly show, so there's more.
There's another one in April of leave April twenty sixth,
so and check it out.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
No, I felt really portrayed because it's I've come to
know it's always on a Friday. It's late on a Friday,
easy to get to hang out in the neighborhood, matriculate
over to the show. But now I have a show
that same night. One hundred thousand is playing at Debonair
Music Hall in New Jersey with our friends in the
(55:07):
band Vaya. It's their album release show. It's gonna be exciting.
So I'm sure there's a lot of crossover tons. Yeah,
all the all the prog boys who are gonna come
watch us, do like our Widley Widley thing exactly, really
want to go to UCB.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Okay, right, I know. I guess the white people will
go to your show probably, and.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
The yeah no and men too. Yeah, yeah exactly. I
think some of the prog boys.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
No, you guys can come to the You can come
to the April show, and you can also live stream
it anytime within a week of the show.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
I'll watch it in the dressing room.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
Yeah, you better watch it even if your show has
already started. Put it on the phone.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
I get one of those little stands for the Mikes stand.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
I love the idea of pump up comedy.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
So that was our first listen to tell us about yours.
Find us at First Listen podcast on Instagram and anywhere
that you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Like and subscribe, download it, do miss an episode.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Never thank you justin Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Thank you
Welcome to At First Listen, the music podcast for people
who don't always get the hype but want to. I'm Andrew,
I'm Dominique. We are your co hosts, and today our
guest is Justin Cashens.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello, Justin Heaves, Dona, How you do?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
We are good. Justin is a Baroklyn based comedian who's
been featured in Fulture, Time Out, and at the New
York Comedy Festival. He can be seen performing improv weekly
on Harald Night at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater also
known as You See Bee, and performing stand up all
around New York City. Justin and I also co host
(00:55):
Ucy Black with fellow comedian Champagnant. You See Black is
a monthly all black variety show, which we'll talk more
about at the end of the episode. But first we're
gonna get into loop A Fiasco's Food and Liquor.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, the stock of us some food and liquor. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
So Justin, this was your pick? This album is gonna
be twenty years old soon.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Oh, I didn't even realize.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
That we got these anniversaries. They're coming up and it's scary.
So what made you pick this album?
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I was trying to think of impactful albums, albums I
ran back a lot throughout my life that I remember,
and this is definitely one of the more influential albums
that I've had in my life. This is around like
high school into high school for me. Uh yeah, And
when I went back and relistened to the whole thing,
I realized, like, oh, I still know the verses. I
(01:50):
still remember like the vibe when I was first playing
these songs. So it's just really an album I love.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Dominique made a point the other day that this album
is so dense.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
It's like a book. It's like a work of literature.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
So for you to be memorizing versus is pretty Is
this the only album that you have that recall with.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
No, I have some other albums, like some Danny Brown
albums I have, but that's like the complete opposite of
loopay Fiasco. That's more scumbag it rap. This is more
like I'm reading a book and I understand global politics. Yeah,
so you got to serve both the masters there. But yeah,
(02:36):
I really really enjoyed this album. Also. I feel like,
in terms of albums, I was thinking that it sits
at an interesting point in like rap and the growth
of WRAP, especially now like Loupay the some of the
stuff Wrap Loupe was rapping about some of this stuff,
like the references to Japanese fashion and all that anime
(02:57):
stuff that was I was a getting more pop, but
it's now fully mainstream pop culture, where in two thousand
and six this is like the fringes of rap. This
is alternative quote unquote backpack nerd rap.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Do you think you kind of grew up with him
in a way, like it seems like you were around
the same age as he is, Like was when he
came out, like.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Not to so so movement was nineteen when he signed
his first record deal, but he wasn't nineteen when this
album came out.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah he was, Yeah, he was in his twenty years old.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, so I don't feel the age kinship with him,
but it feels like of the same time, if that
makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, So when you heard some of the references, was
that sort of your way into this record or was
it like you heard a single, got the record and
then you were like, oh, I feel like I know
this guy.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
No, I'm a I'm a big internet head, which is
a wild thing to say. I was online I've always
been online. I had a computer very young at AOL
when I was like six, So I've always been online.
I've always been on round.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
So you know the dial up sound by heart. Yeah,
that's one of those verses that you memorized. Yeah, there
you go, a freestyling over a dollarp song. It was
a free idea. But yeah, so I was online a
lot and loope. If you remember, at this time, Loupe
was like very very hyped in the rap circles because
he he was featured on was it Touch This Guy?
(04:26):
Kanye song?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, maybe second album, I think, so that verse was like, oh,
who is this kid? He also was dropping a lot
of mixtapes at the time. I think he had like
there's like Revenge of the Nerds, there's some other ones.
So he was he was coming up big in the
mixtape scene. He's had a Kanye and Pharrell co sign.
So this was this album was like highly anticipated. You
(04:51):
did number one on the rap chart. I think you
peaked at number eight overall, and then I saw number
two on the there's like a R and B hip
hop chart where I don't know if that is a
specific category or it just combines. I have no idea
what that is.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
But it was number two, and I think the number
one record, the record that beat Food and Liquor was
Beyonce's B Day go Off.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
I love that they're in the same vertical.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, yeah, how times have changed. I feel like a
lot of the stuff that he talks about is like
with fashion, but also like political topics. Is a lot
more stuff that's like in the zeitgeist right now and
a lot less in music now. It's like you put
it on Twitter, but he's still putting it in the songs.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
He's touching on issues, he's tackling, he's commenting on America,
he's commenting on relationships, all that stuff. So yeah, I
really loute down and it's like, I know, also more
lower about the album before we dive into it, is
that it was a big thing that it was leaked
before it was supposed to come out. There's like the
(06:02):
if real heads know, like the Food and Liquor leaked
version where it has maybe like five or six songs
that aren't on this and then that never made it
and I ended up on like mixtapes or all mixtapes
and stuff. And the early Internet debates are like which
one is better. The Leaked one was a classic? What
is the studio one? Still? Like all that stuff?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Well, it makes sense because there's a thousand people on
this album, Like every single person in the Midwest collaborated
on this, and we'll get more into that later. I
wanted to know if you're so you're from the.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Midwest, Yeah, from right outside Detroit.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
So I wanted to know if that had an effect
on your connection or understanding of his music or this album.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
I think so less consciously than I probably perceived, but
it definitely had to just it is this major city
right next to it. Yeah. I had friends at Columbia
in Chicago, like the art school kids, so very close
to like this type of rap. So it was it
was ingrain and I always listened to the Chicago rap
(07:09):
or it came around me like it was a do
or die twist stuff like that, so you get Chicago
rap naturally.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
I'm trying to figure out, like if there is a
conscious rap thing go that go that happened in Chicago
or potentially continued that isn't as popular now, but like
I just feel like the more that I kind of
look into it, and the term conscious rap is controversial, yeah,
(07:40):
because it implies unconscious rap. But I do think that
there's you know, something to be said for like a
lot of rap as it's become more mainstream, it's a
lot more poppy and like more party oriented, more fun.
And this is not getting played at a party. Maybe
it was, you know, at the kickbacks of the early
(08:01):
two thousands. But all that being said, I think it's
really interesting that it seems like, you know, Kanye at
the time.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
This conscious is something yeah, common common, Yeah, major Chicago
rapper I think is like influential and they're like conscious
rap is a controversial term for that reason, and also
there's like anxiety a controversy. Conscious rap as bad, like
sonically bad, like the stereotypical, like lyrical miracle type of rap.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
It's like stop saying so many words and do.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
A song, Yeah, but with like beats that are kind
of like low budget, grimy, and you like have to
be in the weeds, like if you're listening to like
Gino XL or Mortal Technique.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I was just wondering is a Mortal technique also from Chicago.
This is something I'm like googling this because that would
be really funny.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
But I know there's Harlem.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Who is it am Mortal technique?
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Oh yeah, famously bullied Lin Lynn Manuel Miranda in high school.
If you've never read that story, Oh my god. There's
like there's just like some like interview with him or
Lynn Menuel where he was like, yeah, I got bullied
in high school about his rapper mortal technique.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I I can't. I'm like, whoa. I'm like, wow, he
should have bullied him more.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Maybe there's even tears among the nerd rappers because immortal
technique hierarchy there that I never knew about.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Yeah, he's a truly problematic man, but I was very
into him at the time.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Not important, but you're also into Loop A fi I'm.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Very into Loop a Fiasco. Yeah, I mean I think
I definitely was like not memorizing lyrics like you. When
I came back to it, I really thought I would
know all these songs, but it was it was like
how you remember a book that you read ten years ago.
You're like, Okay, I remember this, I remember this part,
(10:07):
but I didn't remember how it went down because there's
just like so much in there. Yeah, I definitely was.
I was really excited to get back into it. I
did not realize how dense it was. I think I
was just enjoying the music at the time. I would
get into the hits, but like every song it.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Is even a bit of an assignment. I didn't realize, like,
oh I vibed these, but even listening back and like
there's like three songs in a row that are just
extended metaphors, like that's not it's not like he's rapping
about something simple. It's full.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
No. I know this is the first time because we've
we've talked about some complex artists, but none with such
complex lyrics. And and it's interesting because they're not confusing.
They're just like very there's just packed in there. There's
they're mainly stories, but they're kind of like vignettes almost.
(11:06):
But for the first time, I would like, at least
for the music videos because I thought, hopefully those will
get me more context. I think they just gave me
more information to know that was.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
There's one music video that was just like a bunch
of sad facts.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, yes, wait, which you think that's some.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
He SAIDs she's says, she said, I'm yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Honest, I didn't know they made a video for that
that is.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
It wasn't on his official YouTube.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
No, it was on some random YouTube page that somebody
was like, I just love this song, and but I
put the music video up and then I put the
lyrics up next to it, and I had my notebook out,
and I was like, Okay, what's going on here? I
don't know if it helps.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I mean, I guess Loupe is partially responsible for the
website US. Then like, what does this mean? Somebody put
the lyrics in.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Straight up? I was like, yeah, Kendrick could never he
wishes like he's not comparing to this amount of narrative
storytelling at all, no offense, sir, love it.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
So I let's take a break in a minute and
get into the actual track list. Will play some music
to jog people's memories. I just want to say, though,
I loved this pick of Lupe Fiasco. He's an artist
that for a long time have been curious about and
just never got around to checking you checking him out.
(12:34):
I read I don't know when, this was, probably ten
years ago, an interview with his bass player Bubby Lewis
and a bass magazine And so Bubby is He's played
with Stevie Wonder a bit but he's also played mainly
plays with Loupe and Snoop Dogg. And I remember it
(12:54):
was just like a quick Q and A. It was
not like a full feature story where they asked him like,
what are the differences between playing with Lupe Fiasco and
and he's like, well, it's way more fun to play
with Lupe Fiasco. When you play with Snoop Dogg. There's
about four other guys on keyboards that if you mess
up the bass part, they're like, oh, I'll play bass instead,
(13:18):
And if you try to improvise, Snoop is like, no,
that's not how it goes. And with Loope, he's just
like solo the whole time, just just go crazy, like
the crazier the better. And I was like, oh, I
love to hear what that guy's music is like. And
then I don't know, a decade went by and finally
someone else suggested I listened to it.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
Yeah, he's such a collaborative artist.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
All right, So we'll be right back and we'll talk
about some of the songs on the Liquor.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
And we're back on that first listen.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
I'm Andrew, I'm Dominique.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
And we're here with our guest Justin Katchens talking.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
About food and Licter by Luke bi Fiasco.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
So the first song that you wanted to bring up
was this skate park anthem.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Do we say kick push? I dedicate this right hand,
So I'm a homie scene.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
There's a lot of strings in the tracks on this album,
which is maybe part of the backlash for conscious rap
because they used all these orchestral sounds to make it
sound really intellectual.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
I'm just obsessed that he can't stop thanking his friends
and bringing up people he loves, like you can't stop
like every bit of this every bit of this album
is I dedicate this one right here. He's dedicating it
to everyone all the time, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Not he maintained that his friend for producer whatever Chili free,
Chili Free Chill is like on every album of his
from this era. I think is a guy who just
got out of prison like last year or something.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Whoa for real? Yeah so there was a guy who
was in prison.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah for a while? Wow, you know, as as always
like the conscious is closer than the street than most
people realize. I mean this, even this song is about
skateboarding but also about drug building.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I was curious, like do you skate? What's your Do
you have a connection with this? You just love this song.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
I just liked the song. Not a skater, never was
a skater, never had a skateboard at most. I got
into BMX around the time of X Games and uh,
Matt Hoffman that somebody, it's not Dustin Hoffman. There was
a famous BMX biker at the time named Dustin Hall.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
A famous movie start Wow double people don't know Yeah,
people on.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
The pegs is a menace. But so I I really
wasn't and especially at this time, I was not I
wasn't even doing that. So but this I just messed
with this on it's song, which is hard to be
I was like, oh, I like the beat is like
very jazzy and cool. It's like a little story to it,
like the video everybody think about it is like, oh
this is this is smooth.
Speaker 3 (16:16):
It's like this was the first track on the album
where I was like, Okay, this is this sounds like
it might have been a hit. This this is like
the first track that.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
I'm really enjoying.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
It's a very very creative, like like you said, Dominique
vignette where he's telling this story but through like the
skateboard culture. Yeah, I it's like a love story.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
It is a love story. It's a total love story.
I it was the first Loop a Fiasco song I
ever heard. For sure. It's the main one that stuck
in my memory, partially because I remember downloading it on
LimeWire ooh and putting it onto a mixed CD that
I gave my crush who was a skateboarder, and I
(17:04):
was really living the fantasy of like the romance. I
was not a skateboarder.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Back of that skateboard. That's what I wanted to somewhere.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
That's what I wanted. I wanted it so bad. But
I rode a skateboard once and I ripped my jeans.
I was like, fun this, No.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
It feels like as a non skateboarder, as Steve Hill,
to get on get good enough on a skateboard to
do it publicly, like to be able to stop and
like turn and I look like.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
I had a lot of skater friends in high school,
and they never looked like they were doing it well.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
They would do it.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
They would skate all the time and it'd just be
like the loudest noise you've ever heard. They would curse
and maybe like get up and they had like a
their skin, their knee or something like that. It didn't
actually look very fun. Like the one kid who was
good at it. I was like, oh, you should actually
play real sports.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Oh I had. There was like a lot of pretty
serious skaters and but uh, like they would always be
showing up to school with broken arms and stuff. And
I was like, hmm, I don't think I want that. Actually,
I definitely think there's like.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
I fell down a hundred sta you know what. But
they get up?
Speaker 1 (18:17):
No, And I never was about that life.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
And they were taking advantage of that insurance that their
parents had.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Right, they did have. They must have had great insurance,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Building in that habit of going to the doctor early.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
I think he I think, get your check up and
also meet your deductor.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
I think that. No, this song really like it made
me think about how I really identified with it as
like a teen like lover, you know, with a crush,
and how now coming back to it and watching the
music video, how being like an a kid at private school,
(19:02):
I did not identify with his struggle in the least.
I wasn't even a skater, but like this song did
make me feel like I was a part of it,
and I think that there is there's like that is
a beautiful thing as an artist, But there's also that
funny thing of like this like hip hop culture becoming
(19:23):
something that like a broader audience, like a white audience
could identify with, and that he was like welcoming to that.
But maybe it was a slippery slope. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
But also for this song that he's not he's not
saying I throughout it, so he's probably he probably is
a skater or or from that culture. Otherwise why would
he write this song. But like he is, he is
seeming to tell a story like from a third person,
you know, point of view.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, it's like a it is very clear.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
But I don't feel like a lot of rappers then
are now really te all stories like that? You know,
It's it's usually always from the I perspective, right.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
I mean a lot of modern songs. Now there's radio songs,
but that's modern rap radios in saying it at this point,
but yeah, just for a single is a is a move,
especially a single in two thousand and six, especially which
is the height not height but very much crunk era. Uh,
we're getting at this point a Little John everything after
(20:30):
Oh my god, being in high school when that sketch
came out and I was like, oh, they discovered them,
and it was just nine years like even after Little
John's music was not VI.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
It started to peter out and then turned down for
what came, and he was just back and he was like,
there's no getting rid of me.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, I think. But I think that kind of contributed
to the popular edit of the song too, because this
song was very playing the car, which your parents friendly
in a way that was like not that you don't
feel like you're compromising your taste in music, and your
parents are like, oh, good vibe with this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Pre recession, you know, deep in the Bush administration moment.
I think subprime mortgage is left and right exactly totally.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Which I think he's wrapped about on later albums.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
That's what we want tell us about the financial crisis.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
You know. Southern rap, it was all like it's the
South is all spread out, and so we're all and
everyone's just in their cars, chilling and you're not really
like witnessing the horror horrors of society as much as
you are in these like dense cities where there's all
this industry. You really see it right away. I know
(21:46):
we're seeing it around us now in New York.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, you get the sense that the album was made
with a goal where it is all sort of telling
the same story, and he's looking at it from for
an angles And there's not a lot of profanity on
this record. I was thinking, there's not even a lot
of slang, which is one of the barriers to entry,
(22:11):
I think to a lot of white people for modern
day hip hop is the slang. There's the words that
you don't understand.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Do you have a list? Because we can answer those
questions for you right here, right now.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Well, I don't even consider that.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
But like I'm trying to, like when we were talking
about See China, Oh yeah, I mean that's a great
example of like we're outsiders to this UK rap girl
her culture in the UK. Yes, and then so we're
trying to parse like what is like British slang, what
is like street slang? What is she just making up
(22:47):
because it fits her rhyme scheme?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Right? And then what is like internet girl culture with
like oh, because we have all these like niche niches
that we're in Now. That's a good point, Andrew.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Thanks, that's not getting cut out.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
So on that note. Yeah, the next one you want
to talk about was he say? She say? And I
think that makes a lot of sense on this topic
because he is talking about like it's coming out of
a kid's mouth. At least in the music video. He's
like talking from a kid's perspective. This iconic part of
(23:27):
the song.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Okay, so this is featuring Gemini and Sarah Green, so
it's not even a lot of Lupe Fiasco on this record.
I know.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
He just as choruses. It's like a duet.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, she said, so I want you to be your father?
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Oh man. So I don't know why I connected with
this song so much, but I did. I remember distinctly.
I would play this in college in the car and
I would love that. And at one point my buddy
Isaac was just like, hey, dog, well you keep playing
this song is sad.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
It's like, oh my justin we were I was like,
oh no, is he okay?
Speaker 3 (24:12):
He picked the saddest songs. It's pretty melancholy.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
I know my dad, like I talked to him.
Speaker 1 (24:21):
I didn't want to ask, but I did. I did
make me.
Speaker 3 (24:24):
I was like, huh, come, it'll come out.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
He didn't. We did grow I didn't grow up in
the same household. But it wasn't like at any point
I could have called him anyone I answered the phone,
So like, there's not like I didn't necessarily connect to
this story and like very literally, like you know, obviously
there's some points to it, but I think this is
me discovering that I like storytelling and like a narrative,
(24:49):
because the premise of the song is this, it's the
same exact verse twice, but from the first verses from
the mother's perspective and then the second verse is from
the kids perspective. So he's just you know, like flipping
pronouns essentially, and it's I don't know that like affected me,
And I was like, oh man, this all is like
dope and it's like just changing around. So that little
(25:13):
bit of the song like effects so much, meaning, you know,
just it connected with me. But it's not it's not
a banger.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
It's not like I'm not ambiguity either.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
No, it's very just like straight to your heart.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
That's a good point though, justin because I also I
feel like, uh, similarly about my dad we had, you know,
my parents were divorced, and but my dad's cool joint custody,
you know, but like, uh, there was often a dynamic
(25:51):
of my mom being like, you don't check her homework
when she's over your place, and like that feeling that
many of us have of like do we really know
our dads? So I think that there is there is
this sense, you know when we were, when you're a
kid and you're trying to connect with this guy and
(26:13):
then you're seeing something told through a kid's perspective in
this like very adult context, that it is effective in
that way.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Yeah, and we're you know, at that age, you're always
looking for as song as you kind of like connect
to in some way, and I guess a lot of
that a lot of people connected to pop punk stuff
or like the angst there and I don't know, this
is a song I connected with, sure.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
And then the next one up his daydream and this
was I think you want to Grammy for this one.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
So it starts with this like I should have looked
up with the.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Sample I meant to I forgot.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
So that's this very like soul R and B song.
This video is nuts. I can't believe this is the one.
I send you the screenshot from Yeah, where he's dancing
with a He's.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Dancing with the robot.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
He's describing, Yeah, he mentions robot and all of a
sudden there's a CGI robot behind him in the song.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
Well, I think this song is amazing. I love hearing
the song every time that you know where he's kind
of came out of, like the I guess for lack
of better than the Kanye school, So you get samples
and it's just an incredible sample. The if you just
listen to the sample, it's cool, like that adream part
it slaps Jill Scott singing on it is amazing on
(27:46):
the song and it's just it's a giant metaphor about
a robot, but it's actually the hood, which is interesting.
And I think, what is it like from a leg
arm and in like eyes like each verse, oh really,
I forget exactly what it is. But he like he
starts each verse with like I stare from the robot's
(28:08):
eyes or like started at the leg something and man,
this is what I tho ones like, let me look
at the article, like what exactly he's talking about? But yeah, man,
this song is. I think the song is a banger.
I always want to hear this song and yeah, it's
this is Loupe and his I'm a writer bag.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah it's confusing. I think it's Wallleas Connection nineteen sixty nine.
Nice Daydream. It's a beautiful song.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
How did you feel about this song? The robot thing
really distracted?
Speaker 3 (28:42):
But I think where I struggle with hip hop is
the same like four bar loop over and over and
over again.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
And this is one of the songs on this.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Record where the musical arrangement actually develops a little bit,
like there is sort of a bridge kind of a section,
which for a four minute hip hop song, really helps
for me to break it up and keep my attention.
And like you can't argue with with Jill Scott's voice,
it's so perfect on this one.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
He gets even more like poetic in this song where
he's not he's not really telling a story. He's kind
of like saying stuff like it's vibes. I couldn't say
what any of these lyrics actually, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
It says like he's like describing it because there's like
a line like crooked police stay stationed at the knees
and they do drive vibes like of an end of
thigh's Like, that's just he's like describing a hood there.
And then some of it is like those stories or
like little vignettes in there, like this is just very
flowery language to describe a neighborhood or.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's what I'm getting. It's not like it's not like
a it's not like a narrative in the way that
some of these other songs are, Like the next one
we're gonna talk about he sucked, but he's it's very
on the of the general loope ethos, like come on, everybody,
let's make cocaine cool. We need a few more naked
half naked women up in the pool. That's his. That's
(30:10):
his like real little bit of hater ration because he's
not I don't think he's a hater, but he is.
He does like he is like I'm not like that.
I'm not like materialistic like those other rappers.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, which is interesting because it's like he is materialists.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah, like.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
We talked about it before, but like Loupe is, he's
again Kanye, He's in that vertical he was making like
bape cool before, Like he's one of the first bape people.
A lot of his songs he mentions like Japanese high
fashion at school now, like you go yard bags, which
are you have to go to Japan and buy him
(30:50):
and they're like thousands of dollars. He's talking rapping about
like Yogi Yamamoto clothing like, which is very like high fashion,
expensive stuff. He just wasn't doing the classic rapper with
chains and grills stuff, and he does call it out.
I find that annoying as hell. I never liked the
utter word dreams. I'm bit better than that because I
(31:10):
was always trying to be conscious of not being that dude,
because I was like, that is a dweet and I
can't be that guy. But he doesn't do it too much.
And if so, it's like, all right, you can get
you a little issue off, but the song is still
good and it's not corny. Most importantly is corny.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
No, And that's the whole thing, Like, just deliver something
good and we'll let you We'll let some stuff slide.
He was defending himself to some degree because he was
like because people were saying that his stuff wasn't cool,
and I remember that happening to me in my earlier
fashion days as a fashion youth that people would be like,
you're weird, why are you wearing that? And I'll be like,
(31:48):
you just don't get it, and they didn't get it,
and it did become cool later.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
So like I and nowadays, all those people look like.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
Shit exactly they do and there you can see that
on face book where they still post and I'm not
salty about it, but they like. I think there's also
a cool thing with what you're just talking about, justin
that this was his first album. There was no way
he was affording go yard like he was talking about.
(32:15):
It was aspirational for the most.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Party, like, where's he getting his money?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
He didn't have it. He didn't have it. He had friends,
that's what we know he had. He had record deals
that I don't think we're making him rich at the time. No.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Famously, famously he complains about this, the record deal that
he is on in this album. I think around the
third or fourth it becomes a big thing about Lubay
and his record deals. You can read a lot about
lube complaining about his record deals and he has. You know,
he says some.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Things, it's cheaper to wear a fake chain. You can
always wear a fake chain, but fake go yard is
harder to come by, so The Cool Cool. I love
how he starts with a thesis statement every song.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
I don't think I caught that before.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
In the same suit that he was buried in, similar
to the one his grandfather was married in.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Yes, he was still fresh to death.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Blame again talking about talking to third person or second person,
not first person.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
That's what I am, not first I think it could
be either a second.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, well third person is when you say the name.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, but he's he describes other things too, yeah right, yeah,
but yeah. This this song gets straight up storytelling about
a guy who gets a name because the Cool is
the name of his next album, uh and which has
a sequel it is and more songs that reference But like,
I guess he created a character Michael Young history. I
(33:46):
guess because it sounds like Mike Cool. It sounds like
the Cool.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
I have no not beating the conscious rap allegations there.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
It's a song about dead gangster skeleton that comes back
to life or dead gangster. It goes back to life
and basically goes back to his own block and gets
shot by the The new Gangster is there just as
a commentary on how like the streets don't love you.
How the game is like it's like quick money fast,
(34:15):
like they'll replace you, forget about you. It's a it's
not the path to take. It's kind of uncle vibes.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Thank you for that context because I I did. I Yeah,
I like I said, I studied, I studied the text,
and I would not have caught. I did not catch
that this was a ghost situation.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Yeah, because I mean and the lyrics too. It mentions
is like, it mentions like his skeleton like has fallen off.
The chain's falling off his skeleton, and like he's got
a haggard but like the descriptions of her all was like, Oh,
he's still cool. He's still cool. And then like he
meets these gangsters like who the hell are you and
a pull out a gun and shoot him. Obviously it's
not a real story. He was a zombie. They were scared.
(34:54):
But it's just like, oh, he's he's this cool guy.
I know, way to give a ship after after he died,
like you just that's it. Yeah, But I really like
this song is also like this Glupe storytelling. It sets
up the second album or this character, and like it's
the second album does more stuff that's kind of like, uh,
(35:17):
I guess interrogating this idea of coolness or like the streets.
It's like there's way more stories that are like directly
close to this song, where this one is more. This
album is touching more or more things. It also it
sounds good. I like to beat. I like the story.
The story is easy to follow, even though like he's
doing this like metaphor storytelling.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
It's a great song. I think it was easy to
fall like. I think that's something that's great about these
songs is it's easy to follow then then you can
dig deeper into it. I'm like, I need a graphic novel.
I think this would make it good.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
I think this would be a pretty good graphic novel.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, I think that. Yeah, maybe we should pitch that,
Loupe if you're listening. I don't know how to make
graphic novels.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But he describes too. He described to shooting. He's like,
what I think I remember now, because I'm like, how
much of a song do I actually remember? It's like, yeah,
he came back to the spot six months after he shot, Yeah,
something like that. So it's like it's even details like
that about this song, I remember it really stuck with
me for some reason.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Well, speaking of great beats, I think the best one
is on the American Terrorist, which is the last one
that you picked out for us. This is one of
this in the track before pressure have like the most
prominent bass lines.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Yeah on the record bass player bias.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah, bass player bias.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
But I also think I think something that rap loses
at times during periods is the funk. Sometimes the funk
gets a little bit pushed aside, and you want more funk,
And I want more of the funk.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
You want like the Butterfly.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, yeah, I want a baseline. It's not like just
an eight o eight isn't enough and a high hat
like I want that. I want it to move on
the bottom, you know.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
I love how I guess it's Matthew Santos's he's the
featured artist. I love how he pronounces So would you
have ever would you have ever been able to figure
out what he is saying?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Honestly, he didn't see the title of the song, Yes,
but I would have thought he's saying American Terrorist in
another language. And I'm still not sure he's not saying that. Yeah,
it sounds too close to it. But that like I
was like, oh, even listening now, I don't know if
that's another language that just sounds those two words sound
the same minute, or it's just putting off on the vowels.
(38:04):
Oh yeah, I mean he goes he gets leewayo this
track to go off. There's a runs on here. So
and this is this is a song where it's like, Okay,
he's meeting your conscious expectations to handle him. There's nothing
in this song that's open to interpretation. It's I mean,
the chorus is straight up. They make what they want
to make, they take whatever they want to take.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Yeah, he's talking about capitalism, this treatment of Native Americans. Yeah,
like the crack epidemic, domestic terrorism.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Well, kluck plan al Kaida, we got seven forty sevens.
We got it all in here. I like, if this
is one of those songs that comes up and you're like, damn,
we're really doing with the same exact issues.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
This song is present roughly.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
No changes, Just change anthrax to COVID or something, and
that's basically the only update you need to make.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, that's I mean, look, the sign of good art
is you can parallel it to COVID. I watched Jalls
for the first time and I was like, oh, this
is COVID. This is Beach covid, right each covid, this
is Anthraxico, everything is COVID. This. I like this song.
It's I think it captures a lot of things I
like about Loupe. It is like there's not a quote
(39:25):
unquote for lack of better turn woke, scold typey thing.
It's just like this is what it is, kind of
like I don't know if you know, like most Death's
New World water or like which is just about like
water rights which. But it's like a good song. It's
not a boring song.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
I was a Blackstar fan. Oh yeah, so he gets
into some stuff too, but go on, Oh.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Yeah, they shouldn't be on the internet. We got to
keep somebody takeaway to lives.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Internet comments on my sister's Instagram. So he has a
he's a homie, so you know, be careful. No, he's
really interestra.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
He's gotten in some trouble for saying something that women
will lie.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah, they need to be grounded.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
A common problem with the people. What they we call
it conscious. They had a old blind spot for sure.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
No, but I I I gotta say, I really think
that Lupe is a great a great inspiration for people
to put put the stuff in the song. Don't go
on Twitter and say it like do do your job
and we will. We will like accept it because he
(40:38):
he really and I don't know, you know, his personal life,
and I love that. I don't want to know it.
Like I like the controversy. The controversies are relatively small
compared to his actual like, uh discography and impact.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yeah you mentioned it. I think we did it a
now I'm looking at the track is like, yeah it is.
His album isn't about Loupe at all. It's just like
from the perspective of a loop a similar I guess
to an ail matic is ol mad It just like
I'm reporting on the things I see that is very
very little.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
Go dow to Loope Fiasco live from the South Side
of Chicago, Right, I have all these friends here. They're
gonna sing you the news and I'm gonna interpret.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
But he also make sure like the Chicago but also
the world looking totally country. So yeah, this song just
a bit a button, honey. I like the song, but
and if you want to know more about it, just
listen to it. It is everything is spelled out it everything.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, I was saying, if it was a different artist,
I would have like checked out way more of his
work and way more of his current work before now
did not have time. I was I was locked in
just like getting this like a digesting it, and I
like did research on his some interview. I'm really excited
(42:02):
to like to look at the other stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
It gets interesting. He's had an interesting career because that this,
this is like the hype point the next album was.
I would say equally, he's well received. It's not like
this is considered New York classic. I don't think the coolest,
but it's like a very great, great album. And then
he released Lasers, which is his most commercial one and
(42:27):
album I hate, but especially a thing that is was
more in rap, like you got to make the commercial one.
That one seemed like somebody came to him and said,
you got to make a commercial album. So some of
the stuff is like this is everything.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Got to make up the money you lost on that record.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
Yeah, everything is like bigger and more obviously singly where
it's just like a lot more songs like that, which
seems and then I think around then that was like
the height of his success. He never like this appeared.
He just kind of slowly got less popular. He also
(43:04):
continued to speak up politically. He was a strong critic
of Barack Obama for his policy in the Middle East.
He's also for Chicago, and I think he criticized Obama
at is an inauguration or like or at a performance.
It was something where like he criticized the yeah, yeah,
(43:27):
which is this right? And I'm not criticized that. But
I think around then there was a lot of stuff
and then it never ramped straight up for I think
from then he kind of just went like, this is Lupe.
He's a dude who can rap, and now and now
he has you know, there's recent albums like Tetsio and Youth,
more anime references. There's like Murals. There's a song on there.
(43:48):
It's a ten minute rap song. If you like, if
you like metaphors and like flowery storytelling, listen to the Murals.
But it's just him like rapping for ten minutes saying
the it's incredibly technically impressive and it's like interesting, but
it's like adventures into super rap.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, that's not the feedback I would want on my art.
It's technically impressive.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
No, it's a very good way too long. I like,
I like what he's doing, but it's hard to call something.
It's a good song. It's ten minutes and it's not
like like you said, funk. It's not like I don't know,
like Magga Braid or something where it's just like it's vibing.
You're kind of you're listening to this song right, like
the's active, the Marvin Gaye song, got to give it up,
(44:36):
same rift the whole time. It's a two part song.
It's like twenty minute song, but it's funky.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, but it's like, yeah, edit.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That's the one that Robin thickkrifted off for Farrell.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Oh really for blurred lines? Oh yeah yeah. Speaking of
long songs, we'll get to one of my favorite parts
of the album outro.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I could not I could not finish that.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I live, I don't I love, I love you know,
bring it back around. He loves his friends. I love
a guy who loves like he. I think there is
there there is a thing in hip hop. I don't
have the encyclopedic knowledge to bring it up of like
name and a lot of people. Yeah, jmies, Yeah, Kanye
(45:21):
did it. And then there's also the time where you
shout out your enemies as well. At Tupac, I can
think of, you know, fuck this guy, fuck that guy,
can bleep that out. He really goes into it and
I and it.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
It's like it's like thirteen minutes of basically the album credits.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, no, yeah, And then my favorite part is like
a part in the middle where he's like, I'm not
gonna name any names.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
That might have been the point at which I actually
looked down to see where I was because I just
had the album on letting it go.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
We're in this outro. Oh, this is very cute.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
He's naming all these people, naming like the promo people
at the label, he's naming people in radio. I'm listening
a little bit more intently. I'm like, oh, maybe he'll
mention someone I know. And then this is going on
for geez a long time. Yeah, And I look down
and I see there's like six minutes left, and I
(46:18):
think maybe I scrubbed it to see if there was
like a hidden track or something at the end. This
was in the era where that could have been front
that was from the CD. You know there might be
a twenty minute song at the end and it's like
mostly silence, but then there's a little song at the end.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
Nope, yep. So I'm like, I can't do it. I
love that. Andrew, you got the experience we all got
when this came out, where we were listening like ohm
in his beat it's dope, and oh he's gonna tell
a story like Kanye's Last Call whatever, he'll get into
a rap and then you're in it for and you're like, man,
I really like this beat. I hope he starts rapping
on it, and he just does not. I will say
(46:54):
this is a funny thing about this. I listened to
this whole album maybe twice in the last week. Never
once listen to the outra. Once I heard the outra,
just turn it.
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Off, justin not a total freak.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, not a real fan like me. I didn't listen
to I listened to him.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
You spent too much time studying the outro. You could
have studied no.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Well, and yeah, not to mention the intro, which is
also boring and annoying in a but in a in
a more in a different way. It just like says
so much about him and the more I learn about him,
like it's so authentic, Like to us it's annoying. But
each of those people felt good. Probably some of them
(47:33):
probably were not. I mean, like jay Z knew that
he was thanked, but like he is this collaborative guy
and it was it was important to him. You don't
have to put like if you make a painting, you
don't have to like also list all the names to.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Think my paint supply.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, exactly, you don't need it in.
Speaker 3 (47:56):
The thing, but my brush endorser exactly. All Right, let's
take a break and we'll wrap it up with Justin
after this.
Speaker 1 (48:15):
And we're back that first listen. I'm Dominique, I'm Andrew,
and we are gonna talk more with Justin about what's
up with him.
Speaker 3 (48:27):
I just want to say before that a successful episode.
I think this episode did exactly what I want every
episode to do, where I'm more interested in the music.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
It's a bit of a paradox.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
I'm more interested in the artists after we're done talking
about it than.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
I was sort of before.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Hell yeah, like I'm gonna listen to probably American Terrorists
and a few of these other tracks.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
And I'm gonna go follow some loop Basie Fiasco social
media if you want. It's surprise, surprise, no one. He's
a sword guy. He's like, I mean his last album
was Samurai, which is an album that is ridden from
the perspective of Amy Winehouse if she was a battle rapper,
(49:12):
which is true. So he's one of the If you
don't think he can get deeper into himself, he does.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
I didn't think that. I didn't doubt it for a.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Sec A sword guy.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Why it's it's funny because there's gun guy and sword guy,
very different guys well swords. Sometimes they come together. Sometimes
there's a guy who's both and that guy you report.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
To the Yeah, that's a scary guy.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
But this is head guy. He had a natural progression
from sword guy.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Is like, amusing, you're not stabbing anyone with a sword.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Knew you knew he's dug. He's a Japano file black
dude from Chicago. Of course, if it comes into he
goes big into samurai and sword guy, he's like a
He's like, yasuh, yeah, redhead of Samurai, that's me now,
Like that's that's what he's on.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Yeah, No, I needing where is the anime like this
has to come soon. I'm honestly surprised it doesn't exist
as a He's a man with friends and.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
That some of them surely can draw, right.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
And that's what's maintained his his his career, I think,
is his connection with different people.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
And it's like musically there's like a direct link between
Loupe Fiasco's popularity and like the current popularity of say
Kendrick Lamar and A's Tyler a creator on like each side.
So it's like he's like a rappers rapper in that sense.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
One might say Loope walked so that Kendrick could run.
Hey not you guys, but I said it.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
I was looking at Justin for confirmation. Yeah, nothing, there's
in some ways. Look, Kendrick has some hit songs. They
were like, what do you what is how is this
a hit song? He's just rapping about something.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Yeah, you really don't know?
Speaker 2 (50:59):
And was I greatly enjoy it. But I'm just like, oh,
people like this too cool?
Speaker 1 (51:03):
So Justin, is there anything you want to any last
things we can get out of you? I know that
you recently debuted a hit. Maybe it's a hit with me?
Speaker 2 (51:20):
Yeah? At our at the comedy show we go. I
took my foray in a musical comedy and did a
parody of parodies a pastiche I.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Don't know us.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Or whatever, butted of Nellie's EI, and I had a
great idea, what if it was Nelly's a song about
the e I? And I performed that and no one
bowed me off stage taking all right, I was like,
(51:57):
so I considered that a success. I consider myself a
musical comedian and related to Louvey. Every time I tried
some rate lyrics for it, I was like, this has
to be somewhat funny, but also this can't be corny.
I hope to god this is not corny.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
I think it's truly a stroke of genius because the song,
there's a way that you made it. You made it
less corny, like because Nelly is corny and that song
is a classic, but it also is like it's Nelly,
so it's a little corny and you but you made it.
You brought it to the current times and it fits perfectly.
(52:33):
D E I E I because also what is e I?
It's nothing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
It's probably some maybe broken Spanish. Yeah that's a picture.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
All I'm hearing that's that must be it, right. I
think it's the It's the updated conscious rap of our generation.
One might say, I'm not a conscious rap.
Speaker 2 (53:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (53:01):
All I'm saying is DEI is a conscious topic. You're awake,
you're not asleep. You are not a sheeple Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
Oh we go in old school woke. The definition of
we're going two thousand.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
And six definition, that exact definite.
Speaker 2 (53:15):
That is funny because like that is how I would
describe Lupe up until the point where you can't use
that word anymore. I think that's what I would use
in stet of conscious is like on a woke wrap,
which is which felt better, But now it's like, you know,
obviously we lost that.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
I think people who are.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Anymore we lost that. And air Force one rippy.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I think like people under eighteen might not have the
negative connotation of consciousness. Maybe maybe we can ask them
how they feel about this term lupeg.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Is he talking about the issues he does?
Speaker 1 (53:50):
No, I was saying, we could do a whole episode
just on one of these songs, and.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
We're not going.
Speaker 3 (53:57):
We're not going too so you guys of a show
at the end of the month.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
We do it's on April. Nope, this is.
Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah, No, it's not Apripril.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
There's one and I try to get you to say
the wrong day, yes, because its.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
For my show.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yes. No, this is a very a sad time that
we Andrew won't be able to come. But it's March
twenty ninth at eight thirty at the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater,
Union Square. Can get tickets on the UCB website. Our
instagram is UCBLK show.
Speaker 2 (54:33):
Yeah, there's a website ucblk dot com you can go
get tickets. There's also you know, if you want to
go to Andrew show. It's a monthly show, so there's more.
There's another one in April of leave April twenty sixth,
so and check it out.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
No, I felt really portrayed because it's I've come to
know it's always on a Friday. It's late on a Friday,
easy to get to hang out in the neighborhood, matriculate
over to the show. But now I have a show
that same night. One hundred thousand is playing at Debonair
Music Hall in New Jersey with our friends in the
(55:07):
band Vaya. It's their album release show. It's gonna be exciting.
So I'm sure there's a lot of crossover tons. Yeah,
all the all the prog boys who are gonna come
watch us, do like our Widley Widley thing exactly, really
want to go to UCB.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Okay, right, I know. I guess the white people will
go to your show probably, and.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
The yeah no and men too. Yeah, yeah exactly. I
think some of the prog boys.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
No, you guys can come to the You can come
to the April show, and you can also live stream
it anytime within a week of the show.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
I'll watch it in the dressing room.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
Yeah, you better watch it even if your show has
already started. Put it on the phone.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
I get one of those little stands for the Mikes stand.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
I love the idea of pump up comedy.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
So that was our first listen to tell us about yours.
Find us at First Listen podcast on Instagram and anywhere
that you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Like and subscribe, download it, do miss an episode.
Speaker 1 (56:15):
Never thank you justin Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (56:18):
Thank you
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