Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
The following is a paid podcast.iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes neither an
endorsement of the products offered or theideas expressed. Welcome to Becoming the Journey.
This show will be a series ofconversations that will inspire listeners along their
life's journey. This show's mission isto cultivate a community of mentorship by sharing
(00:21):
our experiences in our life's journey.Nobody's journey is a straight line, so
no matter where you are in yours, this show is for you. Meet
Grace Loverray, Hi listeners, andas always, thanks for tuning in to
Becoming the Journey and we are onWOR seven ten iHeartRadio. Today's show is
(00:45):
about healthy sex or healthy love,however you want to look at it.
And my guest today is Taylor Sparks. Taylor is an erotic educator specializing in
ethical non monogamy and intimate relationships.Drawing from two decades of experience in the
(01:07):
natural, skincare and cosmetic industries,she founded Organic Lovin', which, by
the way, you can get onher website organiclovin dot com, which is
the largest BIPOC owned online intimacy shop. She is the co founder of the
podcast Sisters of Sexuality Five Shades ofPlay, which is probably more fun than
(01:33):
mine, and the author of anAfrican American guide to ethical non monogamy,
The How, Why and with Whomto explore You're expanding love styles. Welcome,
Taylor, You're also You're welcome.You're also you also go by the
name Mariposa. And so this ismy first question, and usually we have
(01:57):
conversation, but I got to askthis question. How did that come about?
And why? Well? Math postedmeans butterfly in Spanish, and it
is my spirit animal. It ismy ethical non monogamous lifestyle nickname. And
I have a full butterfly wing oneach cheek and not the one on my
(02:20):
face. Very interesting. Well,I've seen you, I'm seen your picture.
You're stunning. So just so everyoneknows you're more than welcome before we
tap into what ethical non monogamy means, it's got to mean different things to
(02:42):
different people. I just want todifferentiate for this show, the difference between
sex and love. I mean alot of it. We will talk about
sex, but how do you doyou differentiate between the two or or is
it really sex is always love?Or it's it's sex for sex sake.
(03:02):
How do you look at that differencebetween sex and love, Well, sex
love is an emotion and sex isa physical act. So you can have
one or the other without the other. You can have sex without the love,
and you can have love without thesex. Many marriagers are sexless for
(03:23):
many reasons people. You know,they talk about how more than fifty percent
of marriages are sexless. But youknow that research is didn't when it was
done, or even when it's donenow, doesn't take into account things like
both partners have decided we really don'twant to have sex right now, or
(03:43):
there could be an illness, orboth partners might be asexual, meaning that
they don't necessarily they have intimacy,but you know, penetrative sex is not
something they're necessarily interested. And soit's not all doom and gloom as to
why people have chosen. As towhy some relationships are sexuals, some of
(04:03):
it is literally by choice, andthat's okay. There's also a term called
alo sexual, which means you're attractedto people, but that doesn't necessarily mean
you have to have sex. Right. That sounds like a sexual right,
but it's not a sexual. Itis different, different, but yes,
(04:27):
it is different. So let's goback a couple of years and just you
were in the cosmetics and skincare industry, how did you segue into what you're
doing now? And just for formy listeners, whatever tailor does today is
purely echo echo sexual, organic,environmental. But what made you get go
(04:57):
from this bodycare mark get to wherewe are where you are today, right,
which is actually still body care,just more towards sexual health and wellness.
My background is I'm certified in holisticaroma therapy as well as human behavior,
but as a holistic aroma therapist.As I kind of went came out
(05:18):
of your basic skincare companies, Iworked as a makeup artist, you know,
and at some of the brands youwould see in the irregular stores,
I ended up getting into the organic. So the organic industry kind of hit
the mark, you know, kindof hit us, hit the world and
as it started to grow. Sothen I became certified and I developed a
(05:39):
line of sixteen hegito care products forbody care products for elite endurance athletes.
I myself ran my first marathon atthe age of forty and since done two
full marathons, eight half marathons,a sprint triathlon, and a full half
and a half iron Man. Excuseme and I had started developing products for
(06:02):
marathonas triathletes, we started sponsoring races. We actually sponsored five different Olympic athletes.
We were in muscle and fitness,herbs and so while this was all
going on and I was growing thisbusiness, my husband and I opened our
relationship twelve years into a ethically monogamousrelationship, and we started traveling to adult's
(06:29):
only resorts and YadA, YadA,YadA, and we met a couple,
Pepe and Claudia Guerre, who ownedluxury lifestyle vacations who we started working with
their teeth and they hired me todevelop a private label line of Central massage
oils for their brand, which wedid. But when it came time to
(06:53):
launch that brand, we realized thatwe really had no place to sell it
because I had a skincare for athletescompany, they had a travel agency.
So with a little bit of loveand support and luck from them, I
launched Organic Loving, which is loveent to educate people in the ethical,
non monogamous community about safe, healthy, organic intimate body products. Because a
(07:19):
lot of the places we would goto events and cruises, most of the
vendors just had things that were justhorrific for the skin let alone, you
know, your intimate body part.I literally started with their four products.
And I'm no longer a formulator.I'm a reseller now, but I started
with their four products. We're currentlymy company sells over thirteen hundred products representing
(07:44):
more than two hundred brands, andwe ship worldwide. We do not carry
any chemical based products. We doour best to work only with companies that
do not test on animals. Icultivate and curate every product. I look
at every ingredient that goes onto oursite. So it will be ten years
(08:05):
in ten days that I launched OrganicLoving, and we've you know, traveled
the world educating and I do.I also devote seminoles around the products to
help people have a better understanding ofwhat's best for their body. So you
worked with skin care products for athletes, which I'm assuming are atopical. Was
(08:28):
I am? I correct? Atopical? Yes, everything is topical. I
didn't do any supplements or anything thatthey would take. So there were body
washes, massage oils, pre workoutoils after workout recovery, facial creams three
and one body washes which was face, body, and hair. Right,
So how curiosity? How like?What was it in you that said,
(08:54):
because that's so different than let's say, sex toys that you are have created.
Was it like, was there likeboth that went off in your head
and said, you know what,let's just do this sexually. I'm a
little I don't know, I'm tryingto I don't even know the question.
(09:15):
I was. Well, I wasin the epconom monogamous community on going on
vacations. I was working with thetravel group, so I could see what
these other vendors and sometimes stores werepresenting to sell, like on the cruises
or in the resorts or at thehotel takeovers. And because I know organic
(09:39):
chemistry, because I was a formulator, I knew that those products were not
healthy and were not safe because ofmy several years in organic skincare for athletes
and then my previous years working asa makeup artisan working around chemical based products.
So I knew these products were notsafe. And when I say not
(10:01):
safe, what the general public maynot know not less this is this area
is that the FDA has something calledglass GRAS and that stands for generally regarded
as safe. So there are alot of chemicals that have been grandfathered in
in the USA by the FDA asgenerally regarded as safe. So if you
(10:26):
have an allergic reaction to something,most topical products, whether it's a space
stream, a deodorant, a bodybody lotion, or hair shampool, the
disclaimer will say if you experience anydiscomfort, itchy, bernie, scratchy,
please discontinue use. It typically takeshundreds of people to call into the FDA
(10:48):
to say, hey, I've hadthe allergic reaction before they will take it
off the market. You know,it's a lot of people really have to
complain about it. It can't justbe you know, one hundred people or
fifty people. They'll just DM youas sensitive. So they they tell you
to stop, you know, justto stop using it. So there are
chemicals that are in the marketplace inthe USA that have been banned in Canada,
(11:13):
Mexico, Europe, South America,China, but we still use those
products here and they are just notthe best. So since I was already
traveling in the industry as a asa you know, as a traveler,
you know, so as a vacationer. And then I decided to launch this
brand to be able to educate peopleon healthier ways to use and to have
(11:37):
intimate body products. And that's soit started with lubercents and for women,
and lubricants for men, and thenvegan condoms, you know, which is
not a let us wrap you can'teat it, but vegan condoms do exist.
And then that went into toys,which what toy materials are safe?
(11:58):
You don't want to use toys thathave failed to them or that are made
of that very gelacious type of squeaglystuff, you know, because they leach
into the body. So as Igot more and more educated and talked to
more and more manufacturers of different products, I kept adding those to my website
(12:18):
and then kind of settled in ononly specific brands that I would work with.
So yeah, interesting, Okay,So you've mentioned the word ethical non
monogamy, and I'm I'm sure peoplewant to know what that means. Can
(12:39):
you explain that a little bit?Yes? Yes, yes, so ethical
really is the operative word when partnerswho are either legally married or committed to
each other decide that they will haveeither sexual relationships or romantic relation relationships with
(13:01):
people outside of their committed relationship,and everybody knows is then consenting of it,
so the ethical part comes that becomesthat everybody knows and under the umbrella
of ethical non monogamy. There areseveral different types of relationships, so you
can have an open relationship where oneor both parties may agree to have sexual
(13:26):
or romantic relationships with other people separately, meaning they may date separately. They
could have something called they don't ask, don't tell, meaning that when they
decide to set their boundaries or maketheir type of rules, it could be
all I need to know is thatyou have a date tonight and what time
you'll be home, and others maysay all I need to know is you
(13:48):
have a day tonight, who thedate is with, where you're going to
be in, what time you'll behome, you know. So that's one
way, right then you have aswinger type relationship, also known as the
life style, where couples mostly areemotionally monogamous but physically non monogamous, so
(14:09):
they may choose to have sex withothers, other couples, other individuals,
but they are not looking to becomeromantically involved. You know, we'd like
to say they're therefore a good time, not a long time, so that
they decide both together. But sometimeseven within a swinging relationship, may maybe
only one partner might be playing withother people. We say playing as a
(14:31):
way to say having sexts playing withother people. Maybe one partner is like,
hey, you know, I've recentlydiscovered my bisexuality. This is something
I want to explore, but Iwant my partner with me. I'm not
looking to go behind their back,not let them know what's happening. I
want this all to be on theup and up. So that's one way,
you know, you have what theycall full swap. Foft swap is
(14:52):
when couples do everything except penetrative sex, so they may only kiss, they
may only hug and cuddle, theymay only flirt and dance, and there
are plenty of people who only dothat. And then full swappers everything including
penetrative sex, but may not includekissing because some people decide that's too intimate.
(15:15):
Then you have polygamy, which alot of people confuse with polygyny.
So polygamy means to have more thanone spouse. Polygyny is one husband more
than one wife, and traditional andmodern polygyny you have to be married to
at least one of your wives legally. In the United States it is not
(15:39):
legal, but traditional polygyny is mostlyreligious based like Mormons and or Muslims,
both in the United States and without. Polyandreie on the other hand, is
one wife more than one husband,which is my preferred dating style, and
again she has the woman has tobe legally married at least to one of
(16:03):
her husbands. That is a relationshipstyle that still exists today in places in
China and Nepal, and even inplaces in Nigeria and other tribes and cultures
in Africa where the woman can havemore than one husband and the paul they
(16:25):
have something called fraternal pollyandre where thewoman marries brothers and she does that in
order to keep the land in thefamily and create more wealth. And then
lastly we have polly an more re, which is to have more than one
romantic relationship at the same time withall parties knowing and consenting. That means
(16:48):
both the husband and wife, orit could be two wives or two husbands
or you know, three partners.They could all be men, they could
all be women. You could havefour people that are committed in a relations
But it is again like all ofthese styles, they are ethical. Everyone
makes their own agreement. Everyone decideswhich is best for them, And it's
(17:10):
not even a matter that ethical nonmonogamy is better or worse, or right
or wrong compared to ethical monogamy.It is a way to decide what is
the best relationship in love style foryou and those that you love. Some
people are very happy being monogamous,nothing wrong with it, And some people
(17:30):
are happy being ethically non monogamous,also nothing wrong with it. So if
you're ethically ethically non monogamous, it'sreally you. You're telling each other,
I need to do this to havea complete sex life, and if the
(17:55):
other partner grees, then but lovedoesn't come into that. It's always in
that relationship. The man or thewoman come back to each other in that
committed relationship. That is not necessarilytrue, and it depends on the love.
It depends on the relationship style.Is it open, is it swinging?
(18:18):
Is it polyamory? Polyamory is lesssex based and more romantic base,
And sometimes you can have a polyamorousrelationship without the sex. So let me
give you an example, you're married, right, you have a marriage,
and you're very happy in your marriage, and you want to take I'm going
to give you a very general sample, right, and you want to take
(18:41):
salfa dancing lessons. And you telland your husband's like, no, I
don't want to self NaNs like,but I want to learn selfa. Let's
go. And for years he's tellingyou no, So finally you go by
yourself. And because you really reallyjust can't shake this wanting to learn telsa,
so you go take salsa lessons andyou need a guy there. He
may be single, he may not, but he's there as a single So
(19:03):
you guys partner up and now youhave this bond over falsa dancing. So
once or twice a week you meetup at the salsa studio and you self
the dance. But now you're like, let's go to a club. And
now you start going to a clubtogether to false a dance. He has
no interest in you sexually, youhave no interest in him sexually, but
(19:25):
you have this passion for false adancing. And then you know, so
twice a week you're meeting and thenonce on the weekend you're going out to
the clubs, and now you decideyou might want to enter a competition for
newbies and salsue, So now yougot to practice for a nice a week.
In monogamy, this is so shunderupon because you, as a married
woman, are spending all of thistime with this other man, and most
(19:49):
of society will tell you that thiscatch you in a weak moment, as
if you don't have the sense ofyour own self to have sex with you,
And you're like, that's not howit is. But we do have
this passionate bond over self the dancing, and you husband, dear didn't want
to do this with me, soI'm going to go self a dance with
(20:10):
him. Am I never supposed tosalsi for the rest of my life because
my husband doesn't want to do it. So in ethical non monogamy, you
are autonomous. It is not aboutleaving your partner to get something to complete
you. We inter relationships as wholecomplete people. It's the movies and the
(20:32):
romantic era that has led us tobelieve that somebody needs to complete us.
You should be a whole complete personwhen you enter your relationship along with another
whole complete person. That makes awhole complete relationship. And if you divorce
or break up, yes the relationshipis broken, but you are not just
half a person now, you arestill a complete person. So people do
(20:56):
not enter ethical non monogamy because something is missing. Have there been some
Yes. I've been in the ethicalnon monogamous community for sixteen years, in
teaching as an educator in it forten years, and I've heard every single
conversation and every possible reason as towhy somebody decided to open their relationship,
(21:23):
whether it's swinging, polyamory, polygyny, every I mean, there's hundreds of
reasons. Something that's missing is almostis probably one percent of one hundred percent.
Being ethically non monogamous will not fixyour relationship. If anything, it
will put a magnifying glass on whatis the problem and expose every crack in
(21:48):
your relationship because there is a deeperlevel of conversation that has to be had
an ethical non monogamy that is notalways required or expressed in monogamy. Aren't
we a product though, of ourculture where everyone everyone says well to be
(22:10):
a whole well wellbeing, it's gotto involve physical, emotional, mental,
and social. What if people aren'tin a relationship where their whole I mean,
we're we place so much value onprivacy and so you know, women
(22:30):
may be shy and not express thisand for the rest of their lives not
you know, not go out there. And I'll use the word experiment,
but it's probably the wrong word.But how how do we first approach your
coaching? Now? How do youfirst approach someone who comes to you who
(22:51):
has these wants but can't get outof their own way in a sense right
about being shy? You know alot of I'm going to answer that question.
Just I want to say this alsothat the way we look at monogamly
today, modern marriage today has onlybeen this way in the most recent two
(23:15):
hundred years or give it take ahundred, right, because if you look
up the history of marriage, youwould note that, you know, most
marriages were arranged. Love had nothingto do with the marriage at all.
You know, your parents had thisbeautiful daughter named Grace and one hundred acres
(23:37):
of land in two hundred sheep.And the guy across town had this handsome
son who had and they had threehundred cows and four hundred acres of land.
And when these two families got together. They had more power in the
community, they owned more things.And you two got together not out of
love, not for passion. Usuallyyour passion was not even your partner,
(24:00):
or you know, sometimes your passionwas your kneeding circle, or maybe it
was the stable boy and his passionwas, you know, the cook in
the house. But you came togetheras families to pro create, own land
and expand. If you were lucky, love came with it. If you
were fortunate, you married a kindman. You see, and even today
(24:21):
people like, I'm monogamous. Monogamyis to be married to one person for
the rest of your life. Mostpeople today are serial monogamous. They're married
to this one for ten years,that one for twelve years, maybe the
third one for five years, andthey're not really monogamous. So the patriarchy
has led us to believe that womenare shy and weak and we don't have
(24:42):
the ability of our emotions, andthat only most recent research through the Kinsey
Institute, Matters and Johnson since thefifties have told us that women had the
same needs, ones and desires asmen. But as we came up through
the years and before the romantic era, if you were a man of means,
(25:07):
you know, you had to makesure this woman was not having relations
with anyone else, because you needto make sure that that air that she
bore was yours. There was noway to tell back in the day.
So it was said that women werenot able to control themselves and we were
too weak minded, and we neededto not be around the handsome stable boy
(25:27):
because he would just swoon us andtake us over and we would not be
able to control ourselves. So thatcame through the romantic era, that is
all through the movies. Even throughthis today, you see that in the
movies that women just you know,get us all kinds of troubles because we're
just swooned. And it's not true. So when an individual or a couple
(25:51):
come to me and they're interested inethica non monogamy, my first question is
why, you know, why doyou think that this is a lifestyle that
you wish to you know, whichis an alternative lifestyle that comes with a
lot of needing emotional management, andif you cannot get out of your own
(26:12):
way, that is where you startwithin. It's not about making your partner
responsible for your emotions. You reallyhave to do the work inside and it's
not that you don't have jealousy andof the gnom monogamy, you have every
single emotion you were already that youhave in monogamy. What you're learning to
(26:34):
do is to manage it. SoI tell people all the time, just
because you decide to open your relationshipdoesn't make you exempt from your emotion.
But you will learn the difference betweenhonest communication and authentic communication. You know,
honest communication is just the facts.Yeah, I went bowling with Bob
(26:57):
and it was a great time.He gave me a little kiss at the
end of the night and it wasokay, and that was that authentic communication
is. Yeah, I went bowlingwith Bob and he gave me a kiss
and it was the most passionate kissand I thoroughly enjoyed that kiss so much,
and I'm looking forward to seeing himagain. So, you know,
(27:19):
in monogamy, we barely have totalk. We barely have to We're afraid
to tell our partners our needs onceand desires because we now believe that we
are supposed to be one, thatour partner is supposed to fulfill our every
need, one and desire. Oncewe get married, our partner is our
(27:40):
co parent, our tennis partner,our bidwis partner, our travel partner,
our our travel agent. You know, we co parents the dogs. We
can't do anything without them. Andit's you know, and it's just like,
that's okay. But no one personcan feel every need one and desire.
(28:02):
So some needs, wants and desiresare not that important to us.
Are like, so he's not thathandsome, It's okay, it's okay.
He doesn't make it. You know, I wanted to marry rich Man,
but he makes enough money. It'sgood enough. Ah. The sex is
not that great, it's good enough. I'm not really into sex anyway,
you see. So it's not thatwe're looking for us. The word set,
(28:25):
right, the word set, Idon't know. It's settled. Is
is probably too hard of a word. It's not so much settled. It's
more or less I'm satisfied with whatI have if some of these things are
not that, some things are notthat important to me. I mean,
you could see movies from back inthe day where you know a man who
(28:45):
was betrothed to it. You canuse Princess Prince now King Charles and Princess
Diana. He was in love withCamilla, you know, and his family
basically said, you married this youngvirgin and you keep Camilla on the side.
Because that's the way it was,and it's even that way today.
(29:07):
Even when the whole blow up withPresident Clinton then the girls Monica Lensky happened,
most other countries were like, what'sthe big deal? He had some
set I don't understand it, youknow. But this thing, this monogamy
thing, which is a social construct. I'm telling you, if you look
(29:32):
up the history of marriage, monogamythe way we know it today is a
social construct. It is not theway for millennial for generations. We were
not married this way. We wereethically non monogamous. Women had more than
one husband, men had more thanone wives and or concubines. Everybody was
knowing, everyone was consenting, andit was fine. But when Christianity took
(29:57):
hold and said the romantic error camein with eighteen eighteen hundred and fifty somewhere
around there, it became this,you need to have one wife. We
need to have the men in theyou know, in the in the tribe
and in the community, not havinga wife two hundred miles away and another
one fifty miles away, because ifsomeone's coming and intact before, we need
(30:18):
all the men here, not overthere someplace with their other women. So
well, if you just tuned in, I'm here with my guest Taylor Sparks,
and we're talking about healthy sex inyour opinion, And do you do
you coach more women than men orit's it's fifty to fifty. People come
(30:45):
to me as couples and then sometimesthey come to me as an individual who
is just discovering ethical nonminogamy and theywant to figure out which is the best,
you know, relationship style for them. I have not found it to
be more one than the other.I can say I do have more couples
than I have individuals because people enterinto it. They see things on social
(31:10):
media. They think, you know, they they hear about it and they
think it's a great idea, butthey never take the time to like read
a book, you know, getcoaching, and it blows up in their
faith and then they blame the relationshipstyle as to why their relationship didn't work.
We should have never done that swing. This is why a relationship failed.
(31:32):
It was going to fail anyway.Most likely it's the swinging just helped
push push it along because we knowmonogamous people that get divorced. We know
monogamous relationships where there are people whoare unethical and they cheat. We know
monogamous relationships where people have other relationshipson the side. So it's not the
relationship style, whether it's ethical monogamyor ethical non monogamy, that's going to
(31:59):
decide whether your relationship succeeds or failed. Is the people in the relationship.
It is the being authentically communicating authenticallyyour needs once and your desires. I
have met more people who are justafraid to tell their partners the things they
want, even if it's a certaintype of sexual relationship. They just won't
(32:22):
tell them. You understand. I'vecounseled, you know, and I don't
counsel. I coach, you know. I don't do therapy. You know.
I've coached couples who have been marriedfor more than twenty years and have
never asked their partner what type ofsex do you enjoy? Never in twenty
years, twenty plus years, they'venever asked their partner, Hey, so
(32:45):
like, what kind of sex doyou enjoy? And when I you know,
I interviewed over a hundred people.For my book, I interviewed a
dozen single men who are single swingersin the lifestyle, and they have told
me, you know, when theyhave met women and they ask women what
are they seeking in their in thebedroom and someone are like, I don't
(33:07):
want to talk about it, Justdo whatever you do. I'm like,
what don't mean they don't want totalk about on it? And then you
wonder why both men and women areunsatisfied in their religions just because they don't
use their words. I have awhole sermon, are called us your words?
They don't use their words for outof mostly out of fear. You
(33:27):
know, they weren't taught to usetheir words when they were younger. They
weren't taught to use their words andto express themselves in school. You know,
it's you know, school is alwaysraise your hand and wait to be
called upon, and sometimes you don'tget called upon, so you never get
chanced to speak. So they justdon't speak. Speak. Do you think
(33:47):
women have a harder problem speaking upthan men to their partner? Depends on
the women, But I think womenhave a harder time speaking up in general
because we're not taught to speak.We're taught to just kind of let it
be and learn and just get along. Where men are taught to be more
(34:12):
assertive, I think during the women'smovement of the sixties and seventies, women
were taught to be more assertive,and then some of that assertion became very
masculine, you see, and womenbecame very masculine. And being assertive does
not mean to be masculine. Youcan stay within your feminine energy and still
(34:36):
assert yourself. You don't have tobe hard, you don't have to cut
and swear, you don't have tobe loud. There is a lot of
power in one's feminine energy and beingsoft but still being assertive, you see,
but still saying the things that youneed to say when they need to
be said. Some things are betteroff set in the morning. You know.
(34:59):
Sometimes we need to preface the thingsthat we say to our partners,
especially if it's the synsmitive conversation.So if your mom was brought up,
as you know, as a youngwoman during the seventies and eighties, she
might have taught you as a younggirl, hey, you need to go
in there and ask what you wantand you tell that man, and you
(35:20):
don't need a man when you canmake your own money, and we don't
need to put up with this stuff. And some women are stuck in that
very hard masculine energy and now aretrying to reverse it because they are finding
themselves up against a lot of menwho have not changed. So we all
have both feminine and masculine energy.And you know, women have transitions so
(35:45):
much over the last fifty sixty seventyyears, and men have transitioned a little
bit, not so much. Theytransition a little bit. You know.
You have some that have worked reallyhard to be to look within, to
their feminine life and to be moreunderstanding. But some of them are like,
nah, I don't I don't getthat. So we as wheremen can
(36:08):
be strong, but we do haveto learn to speak up. I think.
I think in my in my mind, I call that sex positivity and
and and so, which you takethe shame away and put the pleasure in
it. And you you don't judge, You judge, you know you're free.
(36:30):
You judge with freedom. But isn'tthere still today a stigma for this
kind of lifestyle. Yes, verymuch, So there's very much a stigma.
Some people think, you know,with a schm Morgsborg. It's just
(36:50):
a free for all and you getto do anything you want without without having
consequences, without having boundaries, withouthaving you know, not so much rules,
but boundary you or we'd like toset boundaries with our partners, not
you know, not borders, soto speak, using Esther Perel's words.
You know, borders are like thecement walls on the canals that the boats
go through, and boundaries are morefluid, like the shoreline. So when
(37:15):
you set boundaries as your partner,you say, these are a boundaries,
right, let's say no spending denied, and or we always you know,
we always use condoms. But youwant your partner to make the decision that
is best for them at the timewhile considering you as their partner. But
(37:37):
at the end of the day,they're like, this is a decision that
was best for me. You don'twant to control your partner, nor do
you wish your partner to control you. And that can be the difficult challenge
when transitioning from monogamy to ethical nonmonogamy because we're used to where you're going,
what you're doing, and not sayingthat people don't do that in ethical
(37:57):
non monogamy. But we're used tohaving so much wanting to control our partners
because they belong to us, whenin fact, nobody belongs to anybody.
You know. Is love is infinite. You can love as many people you
know as you as you want.You know, time about, on the
other hand, is not so youcan only love as many people you have
(38:19):
time for. But love expands.Anyone who has more than one child can
tell you that. And some peoplehave put a hierarchy on romantic love.
Well that's not the same. Thoseare my kids, or that's my mom,
you know, or some people likeI'm not sharing. You are shared
every day. You get shared atyour job, you get shared at the
you know, with your kids,you share with the dog, you share
(38:40):
with your family. We share ourselvesevery day. The thing is, we're
not pie. You are not goingto run out of slices. You're not
going to run out of love foranybody, but you might run out of
time. You got work, yougot kids, you got goals, you
got dreams, you got to exercise, you got to sleep, you got
judicies. So you just can't havetwenty seven partners just because you could love
(39:01):
the ball. Who's got the timewhen you have other responsibilities, but love
is infinite. It to your point. We talk a lot about this is
my body. Of course, thewhole abortion thing brought all that up.
Why wouldn't it be acceptable the sameway just pro sex in a way that
(39:24):
we are responsible for our own bodiesand we can use them however what,
however makes us happy and fulfills us. It's true, and we can.
It's just a matter of choosing todo so. I was going to say,
so you're in, you're married,which by the way, I'm not
(39:47):
a big proponent of marriage anyway,but you're married. I'm not married.
I'm not married. The okay,all right, okay, I had I
had a great twenty I had agreat twenty five year marriage. And it
was a good run. We hadtwo. It was a good run.
Yeah, Mine was a good rununtil it wasn't. So that's it.
(40:08):
Yeah, But you know, ourswas just ours. Was just a matter
of we weren't kicking the can downthe same road. At the end of
our twenty five year marriage, hewanted one thing and I wanted another thing,
and I'm like, I think we'redone here. And it wasn't like
this horrible divorce. We're still goodfriends and it's and it was just like,
(40:29):
yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna.I left at the height of COVID
and it was like I'm gonna go. And he was like okay, and
that was it and was still itwas still good. It was a quick
and easy divorce and it was good. But it was good. You know,
when it was good, it wasgreat. And you know, he's
a great guy and he's gonna getmad. He's getting married again and he's
(40:50):
found a great woman and I andI blessed them both and that's great.
Not many people can say that inthe middle of a divorce, but that's
fantastic. And but so here here'sa woman in a marriage, commitment,
partnership however you want to and andshe's starting to feel I don't know if
(41:13):
I'm using the right way, butunsatisfied in the relationship and she finds it
difficult to talk up she let's sayshe comes to you as a single person
and you help her make these decisionsor she she actually starts to get in
tune to her mind and her bodyon things that she really feels she doesn't
(41:35):
want to go through life lacking anymore. What if her partner is not open
to any of that, what doesshe do? I mean does that and
the relationship does it? That's aquestion, right, So you know,
the first thing would be, youknow, to talk to them both and
(41:57):
to find out what is it aboutthe wordationship she's finding unsatisfactory because it's because
you're not satisfied in a relationship doesn'tgive you a reason to open it.
Most people succeed in opening in relationshipwhen their relationship is satisfying, not not
satisfying. You understand you If youopen your relationship when it's not good,
(42:19):
it's you're just kind of asking fora disaster to happen. So I would
highly suggest that they figure out away to become satisfied within the relationship and
not open the relationship because it's notgoing to end. Well, I have
not. It's very rare that someonestarts an open relationship because they were ethically
(42:40):
because they were unethical, like theycheated, or starting from infidelity because the
trust is broken. Right, Solet's say it's not infidelity, but she's
just not satisfied, then she needsto look within and say, well,
how do you know your partner isnot responsible for your happiness or to satisfy
you or to make you feel secure. That's an inside job. You are
(43:01):
responsible for your own happiness and yourown bull crap because we all bring bull
crap to the table, right,So it's your responsibility to make yourself happy.
It's not your partner, So openingthe relationship. I would never suggest
that in a relationship that was notalready fulfilling, So that would be my
(43:22):
first and foremost thing. Find away to get happy, find out what
makes you happy, secure your relationship, then come back to me, and
if you like, we're happy.Now we've come to some agreement. Things
are going good. We figured outa way to stay out of each other's
way. Or you know, Iunderstand he is not my or she is
(43:45):
not responsible for my happiness, andI found a way to make myself happy.
But now I'm interested in ethical nonmonogamy and my partner is not boom
okay. So you can be ina mono monogogy in this slash non monogamous
relationship. It's not like you bothhave to do it one. There are
(44:07):
relationships where one partner is monogamous andthey are married to and staying in a
relationship with someone who is non monogamous. Ethical and consensual are the key words.
So how do they navigate that?How do they set the boundaries?
And that is something they have todesign between the two of them. So
(44:28):
let's say it is she's only lookingto date. Maybe she's not looking to
have sex with others. Maybe she'sonly looking to go out every now and
again and flirt and be out withthe girls and just bring that energy home
and be able to say to herpartner, oh my god, I met
Bob. He was this tall latinofrom metazine. We danced sexy on the
(44:51):
dance floor. I didn't give mynumber, and that was all I needed,
just to have that energy, thatthat newness that somebody else designed me.
It could be literally just that.It doesn't have to be all or
nothing, you see, and thepartner could be agreeing to that, but
you have to have that discussion whatwill you agree to? And if the
(45:14):
partner is like, I can't agreeto that, then you're like, okay,
so why not? Is the partner, you know, kind of stuck
in the monogamy in a way thatthat's not the way I was raised and
that doesn't make any sense. Butyou have to peel back the layers to
figure out why people think the waythey think. You know, is it
cultural? Is it religious? Isit because your mama said? So?
(45:37):
You know, why do you feelas though you cannot adjust? And what
will happen if you adjust? Becauseyou know, you don't have to throw
out the whole relationship just because afew things you are no longer aligned in.
Because you could be not aligned inthis and this, what you can
be aligned and that that that that, so you decide, you know that
(46:00):
this and this we won't do thosethings anymore. I will find someone else
to do them with. But becausewe have that, that that and we
are totally aligned in those things inour life, let's keep this marriage together.
Why do we need to throw outthe whole marriage? And I find
that more often in monogamy because we'relooking for our partners to meet every need
(46:23):
one and desire that if they can'tmeet things for us, we get rid
of the whole marriage. People aregetting rid of whole marriages instead of just
adjusting and finding thoth, this andthis that they're no longer aligned with.
Let somebody else fulfill those for you. You know what skin is it off?
Your partners know if they don't wantto fall to the dance or they
(46:45):
don't want to do a certain typeof kink. Let's say, let's say
you know it's kink and not sex. BDSM is not necessarily sex involved.
So maybe the house have been discoversthat he likes, you know, to
be as submissive and he wants tobe dominated, not sexually. He might
(47:07):
want to be humiliated or degraded,not sexually. It could just be verbal
and the wife is not into it. He could choose to find a dominatrix
that he develops a dumb sub relationshipwith to have those needs and desires of
his fulfilled. Why should he haveto sneak and do it behind his partner's
(47:30):
back, the person that he haschosen to love and honor and that means
to be honest with right have thoseconversations. But instead people are sneaking around
and not being honest and not beingauthentic about their needs, wants and desires.
And it's okay that your partner can'tmeet them. There's somebody else that
(47:51):
could meet the this and this?What isn't that the nature of today?
Isn't that how we were raised?I mean, isn't that the nature to
sneak around because you're afraid your partneris not going to be accepting of it,
so you'd rather just do it onthe side instead of being open and
(48:13):
honest because maybe your partner's approved,and maybe you know, I don't know.
I mean, it's just it's Ithink it all comes down to culture
and and and you know, Imean, in your opinion, what is
the percentage of people that are havinga non monogamous polyamorous relationship. You know,
(48:45):
I'd have to look at what thepercentages are now, but and let's
see, I am going to lookat it. They say about forty five
percent of people in the US havehad some sort of non minogal this relationships,
right and even the last I'm lookingI'm looking at you up here,
(49:06):
last the twenty sixteen study, twentypercent of singles in the US have attempted
some form of consensual non monography atsome point, you know, during their
during their during their lives. Becauseyou know, ethymo noomnogamy can be considered
something that a relationship style that isdone by choice or by orientation. So
if it's done by choice, somepeople might tell people Hey, I'm just
(49:30):
dating right now. You're not theonly person I'm dating, you know,
I'm dating several people, So they'reethically nominogamous by choice, and then they
would say they find this one personand then they let everybody else go and
go, this is the only personI want to date right now, and
then they become monogamous, whereas youhave some people who are ethically nomenogamous as
(49:51):
an orientation, which is in thisway I identify. So whether I have
no partners or three partners, I'malways and to consider myself ethically non monogamous
because I believe it's possible to lovemore than one person at the same time
and to make sure that everyone consentsand knows. So in this culture in
(50:14):
America, yes, it is moreaccepting, you know, for your partner
to cheat, meaning you may notlike it, but you'll put up with
it, than it is to beagreeable to open the relationship to something ethical
and consensual. And unfortunately, everythingthat's consensual is not always because there are
(50:34):
people who are in ethically nominogaous thatcheat. You're like, but you have
permission to do whatever you want.Why are you still cheating? Because cheaters
are cheaters. It's not about someonegiving them permission. It's you know,
it's about the sneaking around and thethrill of it all. So but in
places like Europe, I mean,I travel to Europe every year. I've
(50:54):
met many lifestyles, swinger couples ofindividuals in Europe. I mean, even
statistically, I think, ooh,it's either Switzerland or Sweden. I think
it's Switzerland. Like most people don'tmarry, they co have it, they
co parent, but they don't likeget the law involved, you know,
with their relationships. A lot ofpeople in France, you know, even
(51:16):
married, they find it totally atrouble for the husband or the wife to
have a lover on the side.It's like, but they set their boundaries.
I don't interrupt the family, youknow, don't bring anybody home.
It's very acceptable and it's not thatbig of a deal. And a lot
of times, like I said,it's not always about sex. A lot
(51:37):
of times it is about sex,but sometimes it's not about sex. It
is about this bond over some otherpassionate thing, be it cooking or salso
dancing, you know, or evensomething kiky you see. But here in
America, you know, it's justsuch a taboo. Sex itself is such
a taboo still in twenty twenty three. Don't they teach sex education in school?
(52:01):
They teach biology, but they don'tteach anything about pleasure. So you
have all of these young people lookingat porn, and porn is for entertainment,
it is not education. And Ibelieve it is the job of the
parents to teach their children about sexualpleasure. You know, it could be
(52:22):
great for it to be taught inthe schools, but meaning that letting your
children know about their bodies and theirbody parts and what they were designed for.
There's only I think seven animals onthe planet that are actually able to
have sex just for the sake ofhaving it. There's humans, bonobos,
(52:45):
dolphins, apes, chimpanzees, atthe lions, I think in sea otters.
If I got that right, Iso appreciate you being on here.
And before we leave, I justwant to say www. Dot organic lovin
and lovin is spelled lo v n, and I'm going to quote you as
saying, give as much love asyou want to receive, be it monogamous,
(53:07):
non monogamous, polyamorous, straight,by gay or transgender, just love
boldly, deeply, naturally, organicallyand purely. Thanks everyone for listening to
this episode of Becoming the Journey.Love you to keep tuning in to WR
seven ten iHeartRadio and follow us onInstagram at Becoming the Journey. Thank you
(53:31):
so much, Taylor. We cando this again, because I think we
have another hour. We can wecan really touch out a lot more things.
Yes, ma'am, I'm yours whenyou want me. Thanks, Thank
you. You have been listening toBecoming the Journey, hosted by Grace Lovery.
Tune in weekly to hear more conversationsthat will inspire listeners along their life's
(53:54):
journey. The proceeding was a paidpodcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes
neither an endorsement of the products offeredor the ideas expressed
The following is a paid podcast.iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes neither an
endorsement of the products offered or theideas expressed. Welcome to Becoming the Journey.
This show will be a series ofconversations that will inspire listeners along their
life's journey. This show's mission isto cultivate a community of mentorship by sharing
(00:21):
our experiences in our life's journey.Nobody's journey is a straight line, so
no matter where you are in yours, this show is for you. Meet
Grace Loverray, Hi listeners, andas always, thanks for tuning in to
Becoming the Journey and we are onWOR seven ten iHeartRadio. Today's show is
(00:45):
about healthy sex or healthy love,however you want to look at it.
And my guest today is Taylor Sparks. Taylor is an erotic educator specializing in
ethical non monogamy and intimate relationships.Drawing from two decades of experience in the
(01:07):
natural, skincare and cosmetic industries,she founded Organic Lovin', which, by
the way, you can get onher website organiclovin dot com, which is
the largest BIPOC owned online intimacy shop. She is the co founder of the
podcast Sisters of Sexuality Five Shades ofPlay, which is probably more fun than
(01:33):
mine, and the author of anAfrican American guide to ethical non monogamy,
The How, Why and with Whomto explore You're expanding love styles. Welcome,
Taylor, You're also You're welcome.You're also you also go by the
name Mariposa. And so this ismy first question, and usually we have
(01:57):
conversation, but I got to askthis question. How did that come about?
And why? Well? Math postedmeans butterfly in Spanish, and it
is my spirit animal. It ismy ethical non monogamous lifestyle nickname. And
I have a full butterfly wing oneach cheek and not the one on my
(02:20):
face. Very interesting. Well,I've seen you, I'm seen your picture.
You're stunning. So just so everyoneknows you're more than welcome before we
tap into what ethical non monogamy means, it's got to mean different things to
(02:42):
different people. I just want todifferentiate for this show, the difference between
sex and love. I mean alot of it. We will talk about
sex, but how do you doyou differentiate between the two or or is
it really sex is always love?Or it's it's sex for sex sake.
(03:02):
How do you look at that differencebetween sex and love, Well, sex
love is an emotion and sex isa physical act. So you can have
one or the other without the other. You can have sex without the love,
and you can have love without thesex. Many marriagers are sexless for
(03:23):
many reasons people. You know,they talk about how more than fifty percent
of marriages are sexless. But youknow that research is didn't when it was
done, or even when it's donenow, doesn't take into account things like
both partners have decided we really don'twant to have sex right now, or
(03:43):
there could be an illness, orboth partners might be asexual, meaning that
they don't necessarily they have intimacy,but you know, penetrative sex is not
something they're necessarily interested. And soit's not all doom and gloom as to
why people have chosen. As towhy some relationships are sexuals, some of
(04:03):
it is literally by choice, andthat's okay. There's also a term called
alo sexual, which means you're attractedto people, but that doesn't necessarily mean
you have to have sex. Right. That sounds like a sexual right,
but it's not a sexual. Itis different, different, but yes,
(04:27):
it is different. So let's goback a couple of years and just you
were in the cosmetics and skincare industry, how did you segue into what you're
doing now? And just for formy listeners, whatever tailor does today is
purely echo echo sexual, organic,environmental. But what made you get go
(04:57):
from this bodycare mark get to wherewe are where you are today, right,
which is actually still body care,just more towards sexual health and wellness.
My background is I'm certified in holisticaroma therapy as well as human behavior,
but as a holistic aroma therapist.As I kind of went came out
(05:18):
of your basic skincare companies, Iworked as a makeup artist, you know,
and at some of the brands youwould see in the irregular stores,
I ended up getting into the organic. So the organic industry kind of hit
the mark, you know, kindof hit us, hit the world and
as it started to grow. Sothen I became certified and I developed a
(05:39):
line of sixteen hegito care products forbody care products for elite endurance athletes.
I myself ran my first marathon atthe age of forty and since done two
full marathons, eight half marathons,a sprint triathlon, and a full half
and a half iron Man. Excuseme and I had started developing products for
(06:02):
marathonas triathletes, we started sponsoring races. We actually sponsored five different Olympic athletes.
We were in muscle and fitness,herbs and so while this was all
going on and I was growing thisbusiness, my husband and I opened our
relationship twelve years into a ethically monogamousrelationship, and we started traveling to adult's
(06:29):
only resorts and YadA, YadA,YadA, and we met a couple,
Pepe and Claudia Guerre, who ownedluxury lifestyle vacations who we started working with
their teeth and they hired me todevelop a private label line of Central massage
oils for their brand, which wedid. But when it came time to
(06:53):
launch that brand, we realized thatwe really had no place to sell it
because I had a skincare for athletescompany, they had a travel agency.
So with a little bit of loveand support and luck from them, I
launched Organic Loving, which is loveent to educate people in the ethical,
non monogamous community about safe, healthy, organic intimate body products. Because a
(07:19):
lot of the places we would goto events and cruises, most of the
vendors just had things that were justhorrific for the skin let alone, you
know, your intimate body part.I literally started with their four products.
And I'm no longer a formulator.I'm a reseller now, but I started
with their four products. We're currentlymy company sells over thirteen hundred products representing
(07:44):
more than two hundred brands, andwe ship worldwide. We do not carry
any chemical based products. We doour best to work only with companies that
do not test on animals. Icultivate and curate every product. I look
at every ingredient that goes onto oursite. So it will be ten years
(08:05):
in ten days that I launched OrganicLoving, and we've you know, traveled
the world educating and I do.I also devote seminoles around the products to
help people have a better understanding ofwhat's best for their body. So you
worked with skin care products for athletes, which I'm assuming are atopical. Was
(08:28):
I am? I correct? Atopical? Yes, everything is topical. I
didn't do any supplements or anything thatthey would take. So there were body
washes, massage oils, pre workoutoils after workout recovery, facial creams three
and one body washes which was face, body, and hair. Right,
So how curiosity? How like?What was it in you that said,
(08:54):
because that's so different than let's say, sex toys that you are have created.
Was it like, was there likeboth that went off in your head
and said, you know what,let's just do this sexually. I'm a
little I don't know, I'm tryingto I don't even know the question.
(09:15):
I was. Well, I wasin the epconom monogamous community on going on
vacations. I was working with thetravel group, so I could see what
these other vendors and sometimes stores werepresenting to sell, like on the cruises
or in the resorts or at thehotel takeovers. And because I know organic
(09:39):
chemistry, because I was a formulator, I knew that those products were not
healthy and were not safe because ofmy several years in organic skincare for athletes
and then my previous years working asa makeup artisan working around chemical based products.
So I knew these products were notsafe. And when I say not
(10:01):
safe, what the general public maynot know not less this is this area
is that the FDA has something calledglass GRAS and that stands for generally regarded
as safe. So there are alot of chemicals that have been grandfathered in
in the USA by the FDA asgenerally regarded as safe. So if you
(10:26):
have an allergic reaction to something,most topical products, whether it's a space
stream, a deodorant, a bodybody lotion, or hair shampool, the
disclaimer will say if you experience anydiscomfort, itchy, bernie, scratchy,
please discontinue use. It typically takeshundreds of people to call into the FDA
(10:48):
to say, hey, I've hadthe allergic reaction before they will take it
off the market. You know,it's a lot of people really have to
complain about it. It can't justbe you know, one hundred people or
fifty people. They'll just DM youas sensitive. So they they tell you
to stop, you know, justto stop using it. So there are
chemicals that are in the marketplace inthe USA that have been banned in Canada,
(11:13):
Mexico, Europe, South America,China, but we still use those
products here and they are just notthe best. So since I was already
traveling in the industry as a asa you know, as a traveler,
you know, so as a vacationer. And then I decided to launch this
brand to be able to educate peopleon healthier ways to use and to have
(11:37):
intimate body products. And that's soit started with lubercents and for women,
and lubricants for men, and thenvegan condoms, you know, which is
not a let us wrap you can'teat it, but vegan condoms do exist.
And then that went into toys,which what toy materials are safe?
(11:58):
You don't want to use toys thathave failed to them or that are made
of that very gelacious type of squeaglystuff, you know, because they leach
into the body. So as Igot more and more educated and talked to
more and more manufacturers of different products, I kept adding those to my website
(12:18):
and then kind of settled in ononly specific brands that I would work with.
So yeah, interesting, Okay,So you've mentioned the word ethical non
monogamy, and I'm I'm sure peoplewant to know what that means. Can
(12:39):
you explain that a little bit?Yes? Yes, yes, so ethical
really is the operative word when partnerswho are either legally married or committed to
each other decide that they will haveeither sexual relationships or romantic relation relationships with
(13:01):
people outside of their committed relationship,and everybody knows is then consenting of it,
so the ethical part comes that becomesthat everybody knows and under the umbrella
of ethical non monogamy. There areseveral different types of relationships, so you
can have an open relationship where oneor both parties may agree to have sexual
(13:26):
or romantic relationships with other people separately, meaning they may date separately. They
could have something called they don't ask, don't tell, meaning that when they
decide to set their boundaries or maketheir type of rules, it could be
all I need to know is thatyou have a date tonight and what time
you'll be home, and others maysay all I need to know is you
(13:48):
have a day tonight, who thedate is with, where you're going to
be in, what time you'll behome, you know. So that's one
way, right then you have aswinger type relationship, also known as the
life style, where couples mostly areemotionally monogamous but physically non monogamous, so
(14:09):
they may choose to have sex withothers, other couples, other individuals,
but they are not looking to becomeromantically involved. You know, we'd like
to say they're therefore a good time, not a long time, so that
they decide both together. But sometimeseven within a swinging relationship, may maybe
only one partner might be playing withother people. We say playing as a
(14:31):
way to say having sexts playing withother people. Maybe one partner is like,
hey, you know, I've recentlydiscovered my bisexuality. This is something
I want to explore, but Iwant my partner with me. I'm not
looking to go behind their back,not let them know what's happening. I
want this all to be on theup and up. So that's one way,
you know, you have what theycall full swap. Foft swap is
(14:52):
when couples do everything except penetrative sex, so they may only kiss, they
may only hug and cuddle, theymay only flirt and dance, and there
are plenty of people who only dothat. And then full swappers everything including
penetrative sex, but may not includekissing because some people decide that's too intimate.
(15:15):
Then you have polygamy, which alot of people confuse with polygyny.
So polygamy means to have more thanone spouse. Polygyny is one husband more
than one wife, and traditional andmodern polygyny you have to be married to
at least one of your wives legally. In the United States it is not
(15:39):
legal, but traditional polygyny is mostlyreligious based like Mormons and or Muslims,
both in the United States and without. Polyandreie on the other hand, is
one wife more than one husband,which is my preferred dating style, and
again she has the woman has tobe legally married at least to one of
(16:03):
her husbands. That is a relationshipstyle that still exists today in places in
China and Nepal, and even inplaces in Nigeria and other tribes and cultures
in Africa where the woman can havemore than one husband and the paul they
(16:25):
have something called fraternal pollyandre where thewoman marries brothers and she does that in
order to keep the land in thefamily and create more wealth. And then
lastly we have polly an more re, which is to have more than one
romantic relationship at the same time withall parties knowing and consenting. That means
(16:48):
both the husband and wife, orit could be two wives or two husbands
or you know, three partners.They could all be men, they could
all be women. You could havefour people that are committed in a relations
But it is again like all ofthese styles, they are ethical. Everyone
makes their own agreement. Everyone decideswhich is best for them, And it's
(17:10):
not even a matter that ethical nonmonogamy is better or worse, or right
or wrong compared to ethical monogamy.It is a way to decide what is
the best relationship in love style foryou and those that you love. Some
people are very happy being monogamous,nothing wrong with it, And some people
(17:30):
are happy being ethically non monogamous,also nothing wrong with it. So if
you're ethically ethically non monogamous, it'sreally you. You're telling each other,
I need to do this to havea complete sex life, and if the
(17:55):
other partner grees, then but lovedoesn't come into that. It's always in
that relationship. The man or thewoman come back to each other in that
committed relationship. That is not necessarilytrue, and it depends on the love.
It depends on the relationship style.Is it open, is it swinging?
(18:18):
Is it polyamory? Polyamory is lesssex based and more romantic base,
And sometimes you can have a polyamorousrelationship without the sex. So let me
give you an example, you're married, right, you have a marriage,
and you're very happy in your marriage, and you want to take I'm going
to give you a very general sample, right, and you want to take
(18:41):
salfa dancing lessons. And you telland your husband's like, no, I
don't want to self NaNs like,but I want to learn selfa. Let's
go. And for years he's tellingyou no, So finally you go by
yourself. And because you really reallyjust can't shake this wanting to learn telsa,
so you go take salsa lessons andyou need a guy there. He
may be single, he may not, but he's there as a single So
(19:03):
you guys partner up and now youhave this bond over falsa dancing. So
once or twice a week you meetup at the salsa studio and you self
the dance. But now you're like, let's go to a club. And
now you start going to a clubtogether to false a dance. He has
no interest in you sexually, youhave no interest in him sexually, but
(19:25):
you have this passion for false adancing. And then you know, so
twice a week you're meeting and thenonce on the weekend you're going out to
the clubs, and now you decideyou might want to enter a competition for
newbies and salsue, So now yougot to practice for a nice a week.
In monogamy, this is so shunderupon because you, as a married
woman, are spending all of thistime with this other man, and most
(19:49):
of society will tell you that thiscatch you in a weak moment, as
if you don't have the sense ofyour own self to have sex with you,
And you're like, that's not howit is. But we do have
this passionate bond over self the dancing, and you husband, dear didn't want
to do this with me, soI'm going to go self a dance with
(20:10):
him. Am I never supposed tosalsi for the rest of my life because
my husband doesn't want to do it. So in ethical non monogamy, you
are autonomous. It is not aboutleaving your partner to get something to complete
you. We inter relationships as wholecomplete people. It's the movies and the
(20:32):
romantic era that has led us tobelieve that somebody needs to complete us.
You should be a whole complete personwhen you enter your relationship along with another
whole complete person. That makes awhole complete relationship. And if you divorce
or break up, yes the relationshipis broken, but you are not just
half a person now, you arestill a complete person. So people do
(20:56):
not enter ethical non monogamy because something is missing. Have there been some
Yes. I've been in the ethicalnon monogamous community for sixteen years, in
teaching as an educator in it forten years, and I've heard every single
conversation and every possible reason as towhy somebody decided to open their relationship,
(21:23):
whether it's swinging, polyamory, polygyny, every I mean, there's hundreds of
reasons. Something that's missing is almostis probably one percent of one hundred percent.
Being ethically non monogamous will not fixyour relationship. If anything, it
will put a magnifying glass on whatis the problem and expose every crack in
(21:48):
your relationship because there is a deeperlevel of conversation that has to be had
an ethical non monogamy that is notalways required or expressed in monogamy. Aren't
we a product though, of ourculture where everyone everyone says well to be
(22:10):
a whole well wellbeing, it's gotto involve physical, emotional, mental,
and social. What if people aren'tin a relationship where their whole I mean,
we're we place so much value onprivacy and so you know, women
(22:30):
may be shy and not express thisand for the rest of their lives not
you know, not go out there. And I'll use the word experiment,
but it's probably the wrong word.But how how do we first approach your
coaching? Now? How do youfirst approach someone who comes to you who
(22:51):
has these wants but can't get outof their own way in a sense right
about being shy? You know alot of I'm going to answer that question.
Just I want to say this alsothat the way we look at monogamly
today, modern marriage today has onlybeen this way in the most recent two
(23:15):
hundred years or give it take ahundred, right, because if you look
up the history of marriage, youwould note that, you know, most
marriages were arranged. Love had nothingto do with the marriage at all.
You know, your parents had thisbeautiful daughter named Grace and one hundred acres
(23:37):
of land in two hundred sheep.And the guy across town had this handsome
son who had and they had threehundred cows and four hundred acres of land.
And when these two families got together. They had more power in the
community, they owned more things.And you two got together not out of
love, not for passion. Usuallyyour passion was not even your partner,
(24:00):
or you know, sometimes your passionwas your kneeding circle, or maybe it
was the stable boy and his passionwas, you know, the cook in
the house. But you came togetheras families to pro create, own land
and expand. If you were lucky, love came with it. If you
were fortunate, you married a kindman. You see, and even today
(24:21):
people like, I'm monogamous. Monogamyis to be married to one person for
the rest of your life. Mostpeople today are serial monogamous. They're married
to this one for ten years,that one for twelve years, maybe the
third one for five years, andthey're not really monogamous. So the patriarchy
has led us to believe that womenare shy and weak and we don't have
(24:42):
the ability of our emotions, andthat only most recent research through the Kinsey
Institute, Matters and Johnson since thefifties have told us that women had the
same needs, ones and desires asmen. But as we came up through
the years and before the romantic era, if you were a man of means,
(25:07):
you know, you had to makesure this woman was not having relations
with anyone else, because you needto make sure that that air that she
bore was yours. There was noway to tell back in the day.
So it was said that women werenot able to control themselves and we were
too weak minded, and we neededto not be around the handsome stable boy
(25:27):
because he would just swoon us andtake us over and we would not be
able to control ourselves. So thatcame through the romantic era, that is
all through the movies. Even throughthis today, you see that in the
movies that women just you know,get us all kinds of troubles because we're
just swooned. And it's not true. So when an individual or a couple
(25:51):
come to me and they're interested inethica non monogamy, my first question is
why, you know, why doyou think that this is a lifestyle that
you wish to you know, whichis an alternative lifestyle that comes with a
lot of needing emotional management, andif you cannot get out of your own
(26:12):
way, that is where you startwithin. It's not about making your partner
responsible for your emotions. You reallyhave to do the work inside and it's
not that you don't have jealousy andof the gnom monogamy, you have every
single emotion you were already that youhave in monogamy. What you're learning to
(26:34):
do is to manage it. SoI tell people all the time, just
because you decide to open your relationshipdoesn't make you exempt from your emotion.
But you will learn the difference betweenhonest communication and authentic communication. You know,
honest communication is just the facts.Yeah, I went bowling with Bob
(26:57):
and it was a great time.He gave me a little kiss at the
end of the night and it wasokay, and that was that authentic communication
is. Yeah, I went bowlingwith Bob and he gave me a kiss
and it was the most passionate kissand I thoroughly enjoyed that kiss so much,
and I'm looking forward to seeing himagain. So, you know,
(27:19):
in monogamy, we barely have totalk. We barely have to We're afraid
to tell our partners our needs onceand desires because we now believe that we
are supposed to be one, thatour partner is supposed to fulfill our every
need, one and desire. Oncewe get married, our partner is our
(27:40):
co parent, our tennis partner,our bidwis partner, our travel partner,
our our travel agent. You know, we co parents the dogs. We
can't do anything without them. Andit's you know, and it's just like,
that's okay. But no one personcan feel every need one and desire.
(28:02):
So some needs, wants and desiresare not that important to us.
Are like, so he's not thathandsome, It's okay, it's okay.
He doesn't make it. You know, I wanted to marry rich Man,
but he makes enough money. It'sgood enough. Ah. The sex is
not that great, it's good enough. I'm not really into sex anyway,
you see. So it's not thatwe're looking for us. The word set,
(28:25):
right, the word set, Idon't know. It's settled. Is
is probably too hard of a word. It's not so much settled. It's
more or less I'm satisfied with whatI have if some of these things are
not that, some things are notthat important to me. I mean,
you could see movies from back inthe day where you know a man who
(28:45):
was betrothed to it. You canuse Princess Prince now King Charles and Princess
Diana. He was in love withCamilla, you know, and his family
basically said, you married this youngvirgin and you keep Camilla on the side.
Because that's the way it was,and it's even that way today.
(29:07):
Even when the whole blow up withPresident Clinton then the girls Monica Lensky happened,
most other countries were like, what'sthe big deal? He had some
set I don't understand it, youknow. But this thing, this monogamy
thing, which is a social construct. I'm telling you, if you look
(29:32):
up the history of marriage, monogamythe way we know it today is a
social construct. It is not theway for millennial for generations. We were
not married this way. We wereethically non monogamous. Women had more than
one husband, men had more thanone wives and or concubines. Everybody was
knowing, everyone was consenting, andit was fine. But when Christianity took
(29:57):
hold and said the romantic error camein with eighteen eighteen hundred and fifty somewhere
around there, it became this,you need to have one wife. We
need to have the men in theyou know, in the in the tribe
and in the community, not havinga wife two hundred miles away and another
one fifty miles away, because ifsomeone's coming and intact before, we need
(30:18):
all the men here, not overthere someplace with their other women. So
well, if you just tuned in, I'm here with my guest Taylor Sparks,
and we're talking about healthy sex inyour opinion, And do you do
you coach more women than men orit's it's fifty to fifty. People come
(30:45):
to me as couples and then sometimesthey come to me as an individual who
is just discovering ethical nonminogamy and theywant to figure out which is the best,
you know, relationship style for them. I have not found it to
be more one than the other.I can say I do have more couples
than I have individuals because people enterinto it. They see things on social
(31:10):
media. They think, you know, they they hear about it and they
think it's a great idea, butthey never take the time to like read
a book, you know, getcoaching, and it blows up in their
faith and then they blame the relationshipstyle as to why their relationship didn't work.
We should have never done that swing. This is why a relationship failed.
(31:32):
It was going to fail anyway.Most likely it's the swinging just helped
push push it along because we knowmonogamous people that get divorced. We know
monogamous relationships where there are people whoare unethical and they cheat. We know
monogamous relationships where people have other relationshipson the side. So it's not the
relationship style, whether it's ethical monogamyor ethical non monogamy, that's going to
(31:59):
decide whether your relationship succeeds or failed. Is the people in the relationship.
It is the being authentically communicating authenticallyyour needs once and your desires. I
have met more people who are justafraid to tell their partners the things they
want, even if it's a certaintype of sexual relationship. They just won't
(32:22):
tell them. You understand. I'vecounseled, you know, and I don't
counsel. I coach, you know. I don't do therapy. You know.
I've coached couples who have been marriedfor more than twenty years and have
never asked their partner what type ofsex do you enjoy? Never in twenty
years, twenty plus years, they'venever asked their partner, Hey, so
(32:45):
like, what kind of sex doyou enjoy? And when I you know,
I interviewed over a hundred people.For my book, I interviewed a
dozen single men who are single swingersin the lifestyle, and they have told
me, you know, when theyhave met women and they ask women what
are they seeking in their in thebedroom and someone are like, I don't
(33:07):
want to talk about it, Justdo whatever you do. I'm like,
what don't mean they don't want totalk about on it? And then you
wonder why both men and women areunsatisfied in their religions just because they don't
use their words. I have awhole sermon, are called us your words?
They don't use their words for outof mostly out of fear. You
(33:27):
know, they weren't taught to usetheir words when they were younger. They
weren't taught to use their words andto express themselves in school. You know,
it's you know, school is alwaysraise your hand and wait to be
called upon, and sometimes you don'tget called upon, so you never get
chanced to speak. So they justdon't speak. Speak. Do you think
(33:47):
women have a harder problem speaking upthan men to their partner? Depends on
the women, But I think womenhave a harder time speaking up in general
because we're not taught to speak.We're taught to just kind of let it
be and learn and just get along. Where men are taught to be more
(34:12):
assertive, I think during the women'smovement of the sixties and seventies, women
were taught to be more assertive,and then some of that assertion became very
masculine, you see, and womenbecame very masculine. And being assertive does
not mean to be masculine. Youcan stay within your feminine energy and still
(34:36):
assert yourself. You don't have tobe hard, you don't have to cut
and swear, you don't have tobe loud. There is a lot of
power in one's feminine energy and beingsoft but still being assertive, you see,
but still saying the things that youneed to say when they need to
be said. Some things are betteroff set in the morning. You know.
(34:59):
Sometimes we need to preface the thingsthat we say to our partners,
especially if it's the synsmitive conversation.So if your mom was brought up,
as you know, as a youngwoman during the seventies and eighties, she
might have taught you as a younggirl, hey, you need to go
in there and ask what you wantand you tell that man, and you
(35:20):
don't need a man when you canmake your own money, and we don't
need to put up with this stuff. And some women are stuck in that
very hard masculine energy and now aretrying to reverse it because they are finding
themselves up against a lot of menwho have not changed. So we all
have both feminine and masculine energy.And you know, women have transitions so
(35:45):
much over the last fifty sixty seventyyears, and men have transitioned a little
bit, not so much. Theytransition a little bit. You know.
You have some that have worked reallyhard to be to look within, to
their feminine life and to be moreunderstanding. But some of them are like,
nah, I don't I don't getthat. So we as wheremen can
(36:08):
be strong, but we do haveto learn to speak up. I think.
I think in my in my mind, I call that sex positivity and
and and so, which you takethe shame away and put the pleasure in
it. And you you don't judge, You judge, you know you're free.
(36:30):
You judge with freedom. But isn'tthere still today a stigma for this
kind of lifestyle. Yes, verymuch, So there's very much a stigma.
Some people think, you know,with a schm Morgsborg. It's just
(36:50):
a free for all and you getto do anything you want without without having
consequences, without having boundaries, withouthaving you know, not so much rules,
but boundary you or we'd like toset boundaries with our partners, not
you know, not borders, soto speak, using Esther Perel's words.
You know, borders are like thecement walls on the canals that the boats
go through, and boundaries are morefluid, like the shoreline. So when
(37:15):
you set boundaries as your partner,you say, these are a boundaries,
right, let's say no spending denied, and or we always you know,
we always use condoms. But youwant your partner to make the decision that
is best for them at the timewhile considering you as their partner. But
(37:37):
at the end of the day,they're like, this is a decision that
was best for me. You don'twant to control your partner, nor do
you wish your partner to control you. And that can be the difficult challenge
when transitioning from monogamy to ethical nonmonogamy because we're used to where you're going,
what you're doing, and not sayingthat people don't do that in ethical
(37:57):
non monogamy. But we're used tohaving so much wanting to control our partners
because they belong to us, whenin fact, nobody belongs to anybody.
You know. Is love is infinite. You can love as many people you
know as you as you want.You know, time about, on the
other hand, is not so youcan only love as many people you have
(38:19):
time for. But love expands.Anyone who has more than one child can
tell you that. And some peoplehave put a hierarchy on romantic love.
Well that's not the same. Thoseare my kids, or that's my mom,
you know, or some people likeI'm not sharing. You are shared
every day. You get shared atyour job, you get shared at the
you know, with your kids,you share with the dog, you share
(38:40):
with your family. We share ourselvesevery day. The thing is, we're
not pie. You are not goingto run out of slices. You're not
going to run out of love foranybody, but you might run out of
time. You got work, yougot kids, you got goals, you
got dreams, you got to exercise, you got to sleep, you got
judicies. So you just can't havetwenty seven partners just because you could love
(39:01):
the ball. Who's got the timewhen you have other responsibilities, but love
is infinite. It to your point. We talk a lot about this is
my body. Of course, thewhole abortion thing brought all that up.
Why wouldn't it be acceptable the sameway just pro sex in a way that
(39:24):
we are responsible for our own bodiesand we can use them however what,
however makes us happy and fulfills us. It's true, and we can.
It's just a matter of choosing todo so. I was going to say,
so you're in, you're married,which by the way, I'm not
(39:47):
a big proponent of marriage anyway,but you're married. I'm not married.
I'm not married. The okay,all right, okay, I had I
had a great twenty I had agreat twenty five year marriage. And it
was a good run. We hadtwo. It was a good run.
Yeah, Mine was a good rununtil it wasn't. So that's it.
(40:08):
Yeah, But you know, ourswas just ours. Was just a matter
of we weren't kicking the can downthe same road. At the end of
our twenty five year marriage, hewanted one thing and I wanted another thing,
and I'm like, I think we'redone here. And it wasn't like
this horrible divorce. We're still goodfriends and it's and it was just like,
(40:29):
yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna.I left at the height of COVID
and it was like I'm gonna go. And he was like okay, and
that was it and was still itwas still good. It was a quick
and easy divorce and it was good. But it was good. You know,
when it was good, it wasgreat. And you know, he's
a great guy and he's gonna getmad. He's getting married again and he's
(40:50):
found a great woman and I andI blessed them both and that's great.
Not many people can say that inthe middle of a divorce, but that's
fantastic. And but so here here'sa woman in a marriage, commitment,
partnership however you want to and andshe's starting to feel I don't know if
(41:13):
I'm using the right way, butunsatisfied in the relationship and she finds it
difficult to talk up she let's sayshe comes to you as a single person
and you help her make these decisionsor she she actually starts to get in
tune to her mind and her bodyon things that she really feels she doesn't
(41:35):
want to go through life lacking anymore. What if her partner is not open
to any of that, what doesshe do? I mean does that and
the relationship does it? That's aquestion, right, So you know,
the first thing would be, youknow, to talk to them both and
(41:57):
to find out what is it aboutthe wordationship she's finding unsatisfactory because it's because
you're not satisfied in a relationship doesn'tgive you a reason to open it.
Most people succeed in opening in relationshipwhen their relationship is satisfying, not not
satisfying. You understand you If youopen your relationship when it's not good,
(42:19):
it's you're just kind of asking fora disaster to happen. So I would
highly suggest that they figure out away to become satisfied within the relationship and
not open the relationship because it's notgoing to end. Well, I have
not. It's very rare that someonestarts an open relationship because they were ethically
(42:40):
because they were unethical, like theycheated, or starting from infidelity because the
trust is broken. Right, Solet's say it's not infidelity, but she's
just not satisfied, then she needsto look within and say, well,
how do you know your partner isnot responsible for your happiness or to satisfy
you or to make you feel secure. That's an inside job. You are
(43:01):
responsible for your own happiness and yourown bull crap because we all bring bull
crap to the table, right,So it's your responsibility to make yourself happy.
It's not your partner, So openingthe relationship. I would never suggest
that in a relationship that was notalready fulfilling, So that would be my
(43:22):
first and foremost thing. Find away to get happy, find out what
makes you happy, secure your relationship, then come back to me, and
if you like, we're happy.Now we've come to some agreement. Things
are going good. We figured outa way to stay out of each other's
way. Or you know, Iunderstand he is not my or she is
(43:45):
not responsible for my happiness, andI found a way to make myself happy.
But now I'm interested in ethical nonmonogamy and my partner is not boom
okay. So you can be ina mono monogogy in this slash non monogamous
relationship. It's not like you bothhave to do it one. There are
(44:07):
relationships where one partner is monogamous andthey are married to and staying in a
relationship with someone who is non monogamous. Ethical and consensual are the key words.
So how do they navigate that?How do they set the boundaries?
And that is something they have todesign between the two of them. So
(44:28):
let's say it is she's only lookingto date. Maybe she's not looking to
have sex with others. Maybe she'sonly looking to go out every now and
again and flirt and be out withthe girls and just bring that energy home
and be able to say to herpartner, oh my god, I met
Bob. He was this tall latinofrom metazine. We danced sexy on the
(44:51):
dance floor. I didn't give mynumber, and that was all I needed,
just to have that energy, thatthat newness that somebody else designed me.
It could be literally just that.It doesn't have to be all or
nothing, you see, and thepartner could be agreeing to that, but
you have to have that discussion whatwill you agree to? And if the
(45:14):
partner is like, I can't agreeto that, then you're like, okay,
so why not? Is the partner, you know, kind of stuck
in the monogamy in a way thatthat's not the way I was raised and
that doesn't make any sense. Butyou have to peel back the layers to
figure out why people think the waythey think. You know, is it
cultural? Is it religious? Isit because your mama said? So?
(45:37):
You know, why do you feelas though you cannot adjust? And what
will happen if you adjust? Becauseyou know, you don't have to throw
out the whole relationship just because afew things you are no longer aligned in.
Because you could be not aligned inthis and this, what you can
be aligned and that that that that, so you decide, you know that
(46:00):
this and this we won't do thosethings anymore. I will find someone else
to do them with. But becausewe have that, that that and we
are totally aligned in those things inour life, let's keep this marriage together.
Why do we need to throw outthe whole marriage? And I find
that more often in monogamy because we'relooking for our partners to meet every need
(46:23):
one and desire that if they can'tmeet things for us, we get rid
of the whole marriage. People aregetting rid of whole marriages instead of just
adjusting and finding thoth, this andthis that they're no longer aligned with.
Let somebody else fulfill those for you. You know what skin is it off?
Your partners know if they don't wantto fall to the dance or they
(46:45):
don't want to do a certain typeof kink. Let's say, let's say
you know it's kink and not sex. BDSM is not necessarily sex involved.
So maybe the house have been discoversthat he likes, you know, to
be as submissive and he wants tobe dominated, not sexually. He might
(47:07):
want to be humiliated or degraded,not sexually. It could just be verbal
and the wife is not into it. He could choose to find a dominatrix
that he develops a dumb sub relationshipwith to have those needs and desires of
his fulfilled. Why should he haveto sneak and do it behind his partner's
(47:30):
back, the person that he haschosen to love and honor and that means
to be honest with right have thoseconversations. But instead people are sneaking around
and not being honest and not beingauthentic about their needs, wants and desires.
And it's okay that your partner can'tmeet them. There's somebody else that
(47:51):
could meet the this and this?What isn't that the nature of today?
Isn't that how we were raised?I mean, isn't that the nature to
sneak around because you're afraid your partneris not going to be accepting of it,
so you'd rather just do it onthe side instead of being open and
(48:13):
honest because maybe your partner's approved,and maybe you know, I don't know.
I mean, it's just it's Ithink it all comes down to culture
and and and you know, Imean, in your opinion, what is
the percentage of people that are havinga non monogamous polyamorous relationship. You know,
(48:45):
I'd have to look at what thepercentages are now, but and let's
see, I am going to lookat it. They say about forty five
percent of people in the US havehad some sort of non minogal this relationships,
right and even the last I'm lookingI'm looking at you up here,
(49:06):
last the twenty sixteen study, twentypercent of singles in the US have attempted
some form of consensual non monography atsome point, you know, during their
during their during their lives. Becauseyou know, ethymo noomnogamy can be considered
something that a relationship style that isdone by choice or by orientation. So
if it's done by choice, somepeople might tell people Hey, I'm just
(49:30):
dating right now. You're not theonly person I'm dating, you know,
I'm dating several people, So they'reethically nominogamous by choice, and then they
would say they find this one personand then they let everybody else go and
go, this is the only personI want to date right now, and
then they become monogamous, whereas youhave some people who are ethically nomenogamous as
(49:51):
an orientation, which is in thisway I identify. So whether I have
no partners or three partners, I'malways and to consider myself ethically non monogamous
because I believe it's possible to lovemore than one person at the same time
and to make sure that everyone consentsand knows. So in this culture in
(50:14):
America, yes, it is moreaccepting, you know, for your partner
to cheat, meaning you may notlike it, but you'll put up with
it, than it is to beagreeable to open the relationship to something ethical
and consensual. And unfortunately, everythingthat's consensual is not always because there are
(50:34):
people who are in ethically nominogaous thatcheat. You're like, but you have
permission to do whatever you want.Why are you still cheating? Because cheaters
are cheaters. It's not about someonegiving them permission. It's you know,
it's about the sneaking around and thethrill of it all. So but in
places like Europe, I mean,I travel to Europe every year. I've
(50:54):
met many lifestyles, swinger couples ofindividuals in Europe. I mean, even
statistically, I think, ooh,it's either Switzerland or Sweden. I think
it's Switzerland. Like most people don'tmarry, they co have it, they
co parent, but they don't likeget the law involved, you know,
with their relationships. A lot ofpeople in France, you know, even
(51:16):
married, they find it totally atrouble for the husband or the wife to
have a lover on the side.It's like, but they set their boundaries.
I don't interrupt the family, youknow, don't bring anybody home.
It's very acceptable and it's not thatbig of a deal. And a lot
of times, like I said,it's not always about sex. A lot
(51:37):
of times it is about sex,but sometimes it's not about sex. It
is about this bond over some otherpassionate thing, be it cooking or salso
dancing, you know, or evensomething kiky you see. But here in
America, you know, it's justsuch a taboo. Sex itself is such
a taboo still in twenty twenty three. Don't they teach sex education in school?
(52:01):
They teach biology, but they don'tteach anything about pleasure. So you
have all of these young people lookingat porn, and porn is for entertainment,
it is not education. And Ibelieve it is the job of the
parents to teach their children about sexualpleasure. You know, it could be
(52:22):
great for it to be taught inthe schools, but meaning that letting your
children know about their bodies and theirbody parts and what they were designed for.
There's only I think seven animals onthe planet that are actually able to
have sex just for the sake ofhaving it. There's humans, bonobos,
(52:45):
dolphins, apes, chimpanzees, atthe lions, I think in sea otters.
If I got that right, Iso appreciate you being on here.
And before we leave, I justwant to say www. Dot organic lovin
and lovin is spelled lo v n, and I'm going to quote you as
saying, give as much love asyou want to receive, be it monogamous,
(53:07):
non monogamous, polyamorous, straight,by gay or transgender, just love
boldly, deeply, naturally, organicallyand purely. Thanks everyone for listening to
this episode of Becoming the Journey.Love you to keep tuning in to WR
seven ten iHeartRadio and follow us onInstagram at Becoming the Journey. Thank you
(53:31):
so much, Taylor. We cando this again, because I think we
have another hour. We can wecan really touch out a lot more things.
Yes, ma'am, I'm yours whenyou want me. Thanks, Thank
you. You have been listening toBecoming the Journey, hosted by Grace Lovery.
Tune in weekly to hear more conversationsthat will inspire listeners along their life's
(53:54):
journey. The proceeding was a paidpodcast. iHeartRadio's hosting of this podcast constitutes
neither an endorsement of the products offeredor the ideas expressed
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!