May 8, 2025 • 8 mins
In a move that caught most off-guard, Roman Catholic cardinals have chosen the first American-born pope. But while he was born and raised in Chicago, the new Pope Leo XIV has spent more of his life outside the U.S. than in it. We speak with St. Leo University associate professor of theology and religion, Dr. Stephen Okey, about the new pontiff. (Photo: Getty Images and Canva)
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Gordon Bird here with Beyond the News. We're recording this
within just an hour or so after the announcement from
the Vatican that Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost is Pope Leo
the fourteenth, the first American born Pope. And appropriately we
go to doctor Steven Oki, who is a professor of philosophy, theology,
and religion at Saint Leo University here in Florida and
(00:20):
the Tampa Bay area. Doctor Roki, thank you very much
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Again, thanks for having me. Gordon, tell us.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
About the new Pope. Who is he? What is his background?
We know he's from the US, but there's a lot more.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
To it, sure, so obviously again you know, the big
surprise is he's the first pope born in the United States,
which I think I and almost everyone else had told
was the most unlikely outcome of all of us. He
was born in Chicago. He went to Villanova University in
nineteen seventy seven, graduated nineteen seventy seven with a degree
in maths, and from there he joined the august Indians.
(00:54):
The august Indians are a religious order that traces itself
back to the rule of Saint Augustine from the fifth century,
and you know, from there he's actually spent most of
his life out of the United States. You know, after
he joined the Augustine is after he was ordained in
the early nineteen eighties, and so he spent a lot
of the eighties and nineties in Peru working as a pastor, teacher,
(01:17):
diocesan official, you know, a lot of pastoral experience. He
was in two thousand and one made the prior of
the Augustinian Order it was, and held that role for
about twelve years. It would have been in Rome for
most of that time doing so, and then afterwards he
was sent back to Peru. Actually it became in twenty
fifteen the bishop of Chiclio, which is where he was
(01:38):
until twenty twenty three. And in fact, in twenty fifteen
he became a citizen of And so when I say,
you know, he's the first American pope, that's certainly true.
It's also the case that he spent most of the
last forty years of his life outside the United States,
mostly between mostly in Peru and with some long stints
in Rome. So most recently he was only made a
(02:00):
cardinal in twenty twenty three by Pope Francis and was
around that same time made the head of the Dicastery
for Bishops, which is a pretty significant role in the
Roman Curia and in the Catholic Church because it gives
him a lot of influence and sway over you know,
the selection of new bishops, and.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
The fact that he was has spent so much of
his life overseas and particularly in Peru. Was that in
any way you can can you put to that as
a mitigating factor perhaps as against the arguments that would
oppose a US born pope.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, I think that probably made it a lot easier
for a lot of cardinals to accept him. I think,
you know, there's historically been a lot of skittishness about
a US pope, given the you know, the sheer political, military,
financial power of the United States. But I think his
long career in South America and here in Rome makes
(02:58):
him see maybe a little bit less of a US figure.
I mean, I think, to be honest, most Catholics the
United States who have heard of you know, you know,
more famous cardinals, whether it's Cardinal Tobin or Cardinal Burk
or whatnot. None of us had really heard of Prevosts
until the last couple of years. So yeah, I think
that definitely made a difference. I think that likely made
(03:19):
a difference in the vote in the conclavet.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
When we spoke before, of course, one of the points
you made was that this selection doesn't necessarily line up
with secular politics. Having said that, is, is there a
way to place the new pope, Leo the fourteenth on
the spectrum?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So I'd say I'd take two things on this. One
is I wouldn't want to angle him in terms of,
you know, the US political spectrum. But I do think
it's worth thinking a little bit about where he sort
of stacks up with Francis, because I think that that
maybe is a more helpful way of thinking about it.
Very often conclaves are to some extent like a referendum
(03:57):
on the previous vote, and so so the things where
you know, the the evidence thus far indicates the Leo
the fourteenth would be kind of building off of or
working out of, the same concerns that Francis did. He's
expressed a strong concern for the environment previously in line
with Francis and Laudat de Si. He's expressed a strong
(04:18):
concern for you know, the poor, the marginalized, you know,
those in situations of suffering, and so that certainly fits
with Francis's interests. And he's also been a strong supporter
of the Synate on andidality and the idea of the
church being more of a listening church and some of
the processes and principles that have come out of that
Senate in the last several years. So those are things
(04:39):
that seem to align him with Francis. It's not as clear.
It seems like he's probably somewhat more traditional in some
of the symbolic aspects perhaps, and so when you saw
him out on the balcony, you know, he had more
of the traditional garb, you know, the red and everything
else that Francis did not typically get into. And so
(05:00):
that might be a symbol of something it might not,
We're not sure yet. He's generally reputed to maybe be
a little bit more traditional on certain aspects of doctrine,
and so he's you know, he's opposed the ordination of
women to the dacone, for example, although in fairness, so
did Francis. And I think we'll be curious to watch
over the coming months and years, you know, one stylistically
(05:24):
or in the way that he sort of works through symbols,
you know, how does he line up with Francis or
somewhat different from Francis. So that's one thing that I
would say. The other thing that I would say is
there might be a lot that we can take from
the name that he took. So he took the name
Leo the fourteenth, The last pop Leo Lee the thirteenth
died in nineteen oh three. He was the fourth longest
(05:48):
serving pope in history, with Hope for twenty five years.
And I will say Leo the fourteenth is himself, he's
sixty nine, and if he lives as long as friends
that he did, pope almost twenty years, which would be
a long papacy. So I don't know that he's picking
it based on Longevity's probably more picking it based on,
(06:09):
you know, the types of concerns and interests and commitments
that even Leo the thirteenth demonstrated, and so Lead the
thirteenth was someone very concerned with, you know, the Church's
engagement with the modern world, and in some respects that
was very critical and rejected aspects of the modern world
and tried to go back to, you know, earlier aspects
in Truce to the church. To Leida the thirteenth was
(06:30):
a huge advocate of the study of Thomas Aquinas and
sort of reaching back to medieval theology. But Leon the thirteenth,
more famously and pressed more importantly, was very concerned about
the plight of the working class in a you know,
late nineteenth century Europe that had been dramatically restructured by
the Industrial Revolution. And he wrote a very famous encyclical
(06:52):
and eighteen ninety one called Rare Novarum about the conditions
of the laboring classes and the responsibilities of the capital
classes of those who had you know, businesses and money
and power and and so I would imagine that you know,
Leo the fourteenth, reaching back to Leo the thirteenth, is
expressing a concern for Catholic social teaching, the role of
(07:16):
the Church in the world, especially the role of the
Church in you know, giving guidance and you know, moral
principles by which we might consider our political and economic
and financial and military engagement with the wider world.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And that the significance of the name was going to
be my final question. So I greatly.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Appreciate so I would add to it, and I will
say this as a you know, a professor at Saint
Leo University. We are all, I think, super excited that
he took the name Leo the fourteenth, Leo the thirteenth
with the pope when our university was founded, and so
we're named in part after him. We're named in part
after Pope Leo the Great Popolio the First, and so
(07:58):
I think it's just really exciting have a vote with
our name again, and.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And I couldn't. Obviously that was entirely expected and certainly
a great note on which to wrap the interview up,
Doctor Stephen ok.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Uh, maybe we'll get into campus some day.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Indeed, Uh, Doctor Stephen Oki, of Saint Leo University in
the Tampa Bay Area, thank you very much for joining
us on beyond the News
Gordon Bird here with Beyond the News. We're recording this
within just an hour or so after the announcement from
the Vatican that Cardinal Robert Francis Prevost is Pope Leo
the fourteenth, the first American born Pope. And appropriately we
go to doctor Steven Oki, who is a professor of philosophy, theology,
and religion at Saint Leo University here in Florida and
(00:20):
the Tampa Bay area. Doctor Roki, thank you very much
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Again, thanks for having me. Gordon, tell us.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
About the new Pope. Who is he? What is his background?
We know he's from the US, but there's a lot more.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
To it, sure, so obviously again you know, the big
surprise is he's the first pope born in the United States,
which I think I and almost everyone else had told
was the most unlikely outcome of all of us. He
was born in Chicago. He went to Villanova University in
nineteen seventy seven, graduated nineteen seventy seven with a degree
in maths, and from there he joined the august Indians.
(00:54):
The august Indians are a religious order that traces itself
back to the rule of Saint Augustine from the fifth century,
and you know, from there he's actually spent most of
his life out of the United States. You know, after
he joined the Augustine is after he was ordained in
the early nineteen eighties, and so he spent a lot
of the eighties and nineties in Peru working as a pastor, teacher,
(01:17):
diocesan official, you know, a lot of pastoral experience. He
was in two thousand and one made the prior of
the Augustinian Order it was, and held that role for
about twelve years. It would have been in Rome for
most of that time doing so, and then afterwards he
was sent back to Peru. Actually it became in twenty
fifteen the bishop of Chiclio, which is where he was
(01:38):
until twenty twenty three. And in fact, in twenty fifteen
he became a citizen of And so when I say,
you know, he's the first American pope, that's certainly true.
It's also the case that he spent most of the
last forty years of his life outside the United States,
mostly between mostly in Peru and with some long stints
in Rome. So most recently he was only made a
(02:00):
cardinal in twenty twenty three by Pope Francis and was
around that same time made the head of the Dicastery
for Bishops, which is a pretty significant role in the
Roman Curia and in the Catholic Church because it gives
him a lot of influence and sway over you know,
the selection of new bishops, and.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
The fact that he was has spent so much of
his life overseas and particularly in Peru. Was that in
any way you can can you put to that as
a mitigating factor perhaps as against the arguments that would
oppose a US born pope.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, I think that probably made it a lot easier
for a lot of cardinals to accept him. I think,
you know, there's historically been a lot of skittishness about
a US pope, given the you know, the sheer political, military,
financial power of the United States. But I think his
long career in South America and here in Rome makes
(02:58):
him see maybe a little bit less of a US figure.
I mean, I think, to be honest, most Catholics the
United States who have heard of you know, you know,
more famous cardinals, whether it's Cardinal Tobin or Cardinal Burk
or whatnot. None of us had really heard of Prevosts
until the last couple of years. So yeah, I think
that definitely made a difference. I think that likely made
(03:19):
a difference in the vote in the conclavet.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
When we spoke before, of course, one of the points
you made was that this selection doesn't necessarily line up
with secular politics. Having said that, is, is there a
way to place the new pope, Leo the fourteenth on
the spectrum?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So I'd say I'd take two things on this. One
is I wouldn't want to angle him in terms of,
you know, the US political spectrum. But I do think
it's worth thinking a little bit about where he sort
of stacks up with Francis, because I think that that
maybe is a more helpful way of thinking about it.
Very often conclaves are to some extent like a referendum
(03:57):
on the previous vote, and so so the things where
you know, the the evidence thus far indicates the Leo
the fourteenth would be kind of building off of or
working out of, the same concerns that Francis did. He's
expressed a strong concern for the environment previously in line
with Francis and Laudat de Si. He's expressed a strong
(04:18):
concern for you know, the poor, the marginalized, you know,
those in situations of suffering, and so that certainly fits
with Francis's interests. And he's also been a strong supporter
of the Synate on andidality and the idea of the
church being more of a listening church and some of
the processes and principles that have come out of that
Senate in the last several years. So those are things
(04:39):
that seem to align him with Francis. It's not as clear.
It seems like he's probably somewhat more traditional in some
of the symbolic aspects perhaps, and so when you saw
him out on the balcony, you know, he had more
of the traditional garb, you know, the red and everything
else that Francis did not typically get into. And so
(05:00):
that might be a symbol of something it might not,
We're not sure yet. He's generally reputed to maybe be
a little bit more traditional on certain aspects of doctrine,
and so he's you know, he's opposed the ordination of
women to the dacone, for example, although in fairness, so
did Francis. And I think we'll be curious to watch
over the coming months and years, you know, one stylistically
(05:24):
or in the way that he sort of works through symbols,
you know, how does he line up with Francis or
somewhat different from Francis. So that's one thing that I
would say. The other thing that I would say is
there might be a lot that we can take from
the name that he took. So he took the name
Leo the fourteenth, The last pop Leo Lee the thirteenth
died in nineteen oh three. He was the fourth longest
(05:48):
serving pope in history, with Hope for twenty five years.
And I will say Leo the fourteenth is himself, he's
sixty nine, and if he lives as long as friends
that he did, pope almost twenty years, which would be
a long papacy. So I don't know that he's picking
it based on Longevity's probably more picking it based on,
(06:09):
you know, the types of concerns and interests and commitments
that even Leo the thirteenth demonstrated, and so Lead the
thirteenth was someone very concerned with, you know, the Church's
engagement with the modern world, and in some respects that
was very critical and rejected aspects of the modern world
and tried to go back to, you know, earlier aspects
in Truce to the church. To Leida the thirteenth was
(06:30):
a huge advocate of the study of Thomas Aquinas and
sort of reaching back to medieval theology. But Leon the thirteenth,
more famously and pressed more importantly, was very concerned about
the plight of the working class in a you know,
late nineteenth century Europe that had been dramatically restructured by
the Industrial Revolution. And he wrote a very famous encyclical
(06:52):
and eighteen ninety one called Rare Novarum about the conditions
of the laboring classes and the responsibilities of the capital
classes of those who had you know, businesses and money
and power and and so I would imagine that you know,
Leo the fourteenth, reaching back to Leo the thirteenth, is
expressing a concern for Catholic social teaching, the role of
(07:16):
the Church in the world, especially the role of the
Church in you know, giving guidance and you know, moral
principles by which we might consider our political and economic
and financial and military engagement with the wider world.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
And that the significance of the name was going to
be my final question. So I greatly.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Appreciate so I would add to it, and I will
say this as a you know, a professor at Saint
Leo University. We are all, I think, super excited that
he took the name Leo the fourteenth, Leo the thirteenth
with the pope when our university was founded, and so
we're named in part after him. We're named in part
after Pope Leo the Great Popolio the First, and so
(07:58):
I think it's just really exciting have a vote with
our name again, and.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And I couldn't. Obviously that was entirely expected and certainly
a great note on which to wrap the interview up,
Doctor Stephen ok.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Uh, maybe we'll get into campus some day.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Indeed, Uh, Doctor Stephen Oki, of Saint Leo University in
the Tampa Bay Area, thank you very much for joining
us on beyond the News
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