Black Perspective: November 19, 2023

This week on The Black Perspective, we speak to the first Black woman to represent the United States in the Miss Intercontinental Beauty Pageant; Gospel Artist Jekalyn Carr joins us to talk about following her calling; Esther Dillard talks to an author about race and the workplace, and ESPN’s Ryan Clark joins us to talk about his visit to the White House to discuss college athletes working conditions.

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It's November nineteenth, and today wespeak to the first black woman to represent
the United States in the Mis IntercontinentalBeauty Pageant. Goswartist Jaquelin Carr joins us
to talk about following her calling.Esther Dillar talks to an author about race
and the workplace, and ESPN's RyanClark joins us to talk about his visit
to the White House to discuss collegeathletes working conditions, those stories in war

(00:25):
coming up. Welcome to the BlackPerspective. I'm your host, Mike Eiland.
Welcome to the Black Perspective, aweekly community affairs program on the Black
Information Network featuring interviews and discussions onissues important to the black community. A
black woman will represent the United Statesat the Mis Intercontinental Beauty Pageant this December
for the first time in the competition'sfifty one year history. New York native

(00:48):
and Bronx resident, twenty three yearold Amber Corbett sat down with the Black
Information Networks Mimi Brown about her journey. Thanks, Mike, We have a
remarkable guess who is breaking barriers andmaking history in the world of pageantry and
beyond. Ambra Corbette is a nativeNew Yorker hailing from the Bronx, recently
making headlines as the first black womanto represent the United States and the myths

(01:10):
Intercontinental usas pageants fifty one year history, and Amber is joining me right now,
Amber, how does it feel?Honestly? Right now, it just
feels like a complete whirlwind as I'mpreparing to go to each at for Miss
Intercontinental in the next few weeks,which I can't believe we're already here.
But it truly is an honor becauseI had to be an example representation,

(01:32):
not just in pageantry, but forany industry for young little girls all over
the world, especially black young littlegirls, absolutely, which is so important
for those who don't know. Canyou share your journey through the world of
pageantry, because this isn't your firstpageant, You've done so many, and
kind of talk about how those mighthave prepared you for this one. Of
course, I can't believe that I'dspent ten years a little bit over since

(01:55):
I've been competing in pageants. Istarted competing pageants when I was twelve because
I was shy. I've always beenreally smart, but I never really had
my own voice growing up. Igrew up around a lot of really strong
women, and I surprisingly was prettytimid. So I ended up doing my
first pageant and I did really welland I enjoyed it, and from then

(02:15):
I've been competing throughout my teens andnow in my early twenties, and it's
been one of the best experiences I'veever had. But it's something that I'm
so grateful for because all of mycompetitions and all of my preparations across the
ten year span have really landed mein this Intercontinental USA, which is one
of the grand slands of pageantry.So it's a complete honor. We love

(02:37):
to hear that. We also knowthat your mother played a huge role in
getting you ready and encouraging you andyour involvement in the process. Talk to
me a little bit about what itwas like to have her support throughout this
whole journey. My mom and Iare definitely two peas in a pod,
so it's been so fun to workwith her and do a lot of preparation
and strategy with it. Because mymom is a force in the corporate environment.

(03:01):
She's the head of HR at abiotech company, and me as I'm
beginning my career in marketing. Weboth really love strategy and working on clubic
speaking and working in our communities thatit's a great outlet for us to bond
more and also work on our streamsand our passions. You know, in
my intro I talked about you becomingthe first woman, the first black woman

(03:23):
to kind of represent the USA inthis pageant, But can you tell me
in your own words what that meansto you? To me, being the
first black woman to represent the USAand Miss Intercontinental is a story of growth
and resilience. My grandparents are fromthe deep segregated South in Alabama. I
grew up going there the cemetery wheremy great grandparents are buried, and did

(03:44):
not desegregate until around twenty twelve,officially, like the fence being pulled up,
and I got to see that whenwe went on summer vacation. So
as I've been preparing for the pageantin Egypt, I've been really reflecting on
what this truly means to me andhow how important it is that I get
to be the first, because thereare so many more ways when African Americans

(04:05):
we're going to be able to say, well, I'm the first, But
I don't want to be the firstalways. I don't want to be the
last always either. I want tobe able to open a space so that
more little girls that look like mecan continue to come and exceed and really
dominate their industries. So I'm lookingat it as more of a tool to
help me open doors for young girls. We love that open doors and leave

(04:28):
that door wide open, so somany of little black girls who look like
you and me can just walk rightthrough. Talk to me about what are
some of the goals and the objectivesof the Miss Intercontinental pageant. That's one
of the things that really drove meto Miss Intercontinental is the fact that it
is truly an organization that champions women, champions beauty. I feel like a

(04:50):
lot of the times in the industry, we feel like we have to hide
the fact that we're beautiful because youdon't want to seem shallow. But that's
when you have to really think aboutwhat is the power of beauty and what
does it mean to you To me, Beauty of course is physical, it's
seeing the positivity and everything, butit's also who you are in your soul
and how you want to make achange in this world. And Miss Intercontinental

(05:12):
focuses on the power of beauty andsustainability of women, because that's so important,
especially now we know that there's alot of hardship in the world right
now, especially that being able torepresent that women are beautiful and we can
use that to make a difference inthis world is so important, and as
Miss Intercontinental, I hope to beable to champion that message. Talk to
me a little bit about how youplan to leverage your background with your experience

(05:36):
as a Miss Intercontinental USA. Marketingis everything to me, and at the
end of the day, this pageantis amazing. Miss Intercontinental is an amazing
force in the pageant industry, butit's my goal to expand it. I
want Miss Intercontinental to be a householdname. So using my background and marketing,
I'll be able to really use socialmedia strategies to help as well as

(05:59):
be able to make connections and networkto get us into the spaces that were
not necessarily as known. In inthe US, there are two main pageants
that most people know about and theydon't know about all the other amazing systems
and how much of a force MissIntercontinental is. And as Miss Intercontinental USA,
I've already been making strides from goingto Congressional Black Caucus a few months
ago and networking with a lot ofreally important black leaders, and I'll continue

(06:24):
to do that while also supporting blackbusinesses in the process. You know,
Abe, you're a trailblazer. You'reliterally blazing your own trill and allowing,
like you said earlier, little girlsto come behind you. So for aspiring
pageant contestants, what advice would youhave for them if they want to follow
in your footsteps? My biggest thingis to be authentic. In the pageant

(06:46):
industry. There's a lot of coachesand a lot of consultants that will tell
you you need to be a certainway, but that's not true. The
only way you need to be isyourself. I've seen so much success by
being true to who I am andfinding myself in pagant and a lot of
the typical hardships that young adults faceof not really understanding who they are,
I haven't dealt with as severely.And I do think it's because from a

(07:09):
young HR is thinking about where Iwanted to fit it into this world because
of pageantry. So I feel likeas long as you're being your true self
and figuring out where you want toland that y'all shine and your confidence will
carry you through. What platforms aremost important to you right now and how
do you plan to use those platformsto get that message out to the masses.

(07:30):
Wow, as a young woman justentering the corporate world, I'm starting
to see how hard it is tonot only represent our stories but also be
the people behind the scenes working onit. I work in ad sales,
and there's a lot of great talkabout diversity of our stories, but not
who we are and working behind that. And so I created my own nonprofit,

(07:51):
She's Represented, which works to mentorand be a safe place for women
of color in the corporate environment,because we already have to deal with microaggressions
and things that are so real likepay pay despair. That being able to
have a platform where not only areour voices understood and heard, but welcomed
is so important. And I'm soexcited because towards the end of the year,

(08:13):
I'll be starting my own mentorship programwith She's Represented. So please make
sure to follow us on Instagram sothat you can share with all the lovely
young women in your life and youcan support that way and get them started
on the careers absolutely let them knowwhere they can follow you so that they
can make sure that they stay incontact and when you're ready to launch,
they are ready to go, ofcourse. So my personal Instagram is at

(08:35):
Amber Summer XO and then she's represented. You can find that she's represented also
on Instagram. Awesome, Amber,this was so amazing. You are doing
it and we are so proud ofyou. You know, you're going to
just change the world, and I'mso glad that we get a front row
seat and watching that positive change.Thank you again for joining us today.

(08:56):
Thank you so much for having me. I made brown on the Black Perspective.
Mike back to you. Thanks.Mimi Adea. Harvey Wingfield, Vice
Dean of Faculty Development and Diversity andProfessor of Sociology at Washington University is a
leading sociologist and a celebrated author whoresearches racial and gender inequality and professional occupations.

(09:18):
In her new book, Gray Areas, she reveals why racial inequality persists
in the workplace despite today's multi billiondollar diversity industry, and provides actionable solutions
for creating a truly equitable, multiracial future. Esther Dillard speaks to MS
Wingfield in this edition of Color Betweenthe Lines, I'm Esther Dillard on the

(09:39):
Black Information Network, chatting with writersand authors who offer an added perspective for
our listeners. This is Color betweenthe Lines. In this edition of the
Color Between the Lines, we're speakingwith doctor Adia Harvey Wingfield about her latest
book, Gray Area Is How theway we work perpetuates racism and what we

(10:03):
can do to fix it. Welcomedoctor Wingfield to the Bion. Thanks for
having me. All right, Italked to you about two years ago about
another one of your books. Itwas called Flatlining, Race, Work and
Healthcare in the New Economy, andyou touched on a little bit of these
topics. But in this book youuse the words gray areas and you get

(10:24):
really deep into it. Please explainwhat gray areas are, and please give
an example for those who may notquite understand. Sure, So when I
talk about gray areas, I'm talkingnot about the parts of work that are
core pandemic to our jobs, butthe more subtle parts that are associated with
work that are more social, ormore cultural or more relational. So,

(10:46):
for example, I'm a college professor, and that means that my job is
to do research and teaching and sometimesa great deal of university service. But
there are other aspects of work apartfrom just those three core things. When
I think about my work and howI got this job, there are more
social aspects that have to do withhow I learned about this job in the
first place, and how we learnabout which jobs seem like a good fit

(11:07):
for us. There are the culturalaspects of work that have to do with
the organizational cultures and the places thatwe are hired and whether those organizational cultures
seem to reflect our experiences or not. And then there are the relational parts
of work, which have to dowith the relationships that we have that can
help us to move into other higherranking positions and move up the corporate ladder,
so to speak. So when Italk about the gray areas, I'm

(11:28):
talking about those aspects of work,the social, cultural, and relational dynamics
that affect how we work. Andmy finding in the book is that those
gray areas are the areas where wesee a lot of opportunities for racial inequality
to be perpetuated. You start offthis book with a very personal experience.
I was very taken aback after whenI first read it, and it was

(11:52):
interesting how you say that you werereluctant to talk about it in the workplace,
and you say this is the normafter you did your research in the
corporate world. What in your researchdo you believe are some of the reasons
or that people do this they don'ttalk about it and the solutions to that.
Yeah, So the example that you'rereferred to is my basically being at
home, minding my own business andopening my university email to find racist hate

(12:16):
email in my inbox. And likeyou said, I didn't immediately bring it
to anyone's attention. Eventually I sharedit with the it person here, and
even then that was only because Iwanted to. I didn't obviously I didn't
know kind of what the sender's thoughtswere or where it was going. But
in the event that the sender decidedto escalate things, I wanted there to

(12:37):
be a paper trail and a trackrecord to show that this has been part
of my experience. But I didn'ttell anyone in my department what happened because
I was relatively new at the job. It was my first year, and
at the time I was the onlyperson in my department who was not a
white man and not knowing my coworkerssuper well, I didn't think they would
be openly hostile about it at all, But I also felt that they might

(13:03):
want more emotion management than I feltlike providing in the moment. And you're
right that when I talk with otherblack workers about this, that response is
totally normative. Everybody that I speakto gets it and they understand that process.
But it speaks to a bigger issuethat I try to highlight in gray
areas, which is that for manyblack workers, their experiences might not be
quite so severe as getting racist hatemail, although that does happen more frequently

(13:26):
to people in certain professions than others. But for many black workers, when
racist events happen in their workplaces,and when issues like this occur, often
what ends up occurring is those workerstry to deal with it themselves, and
they handle it on their own,and they try to figure out what the
best course of action is by themselves. But they do that because in many
cases, the organizations where they workare not prepared to help address, resolve,

(13:50):
or deal with those issues. Andthat's a part of what I want
to talk about in the book,is how that really sets a tone for
how many black people experience workplaces inways that are not really so congratulatory to
those work environments and the what didyou conclude that some of the things that
perhaps corporate world could do to makethat better or make that much more easy

(14:11):
for people to talk about a situationthat may be uncomfortable like that. Yeah,
Well, the great thing is thatnow there is actually a lot of
research and data that does talk aboutthings that companies can do differently to try
to achieve more measurable racial diversity inplace. So one involvement, one particular
step when it comes to changing theculture involves creating diversity task forces, and

(14:33):
that is when companies task people fromthroughout the organization to come together, identify
where there are issues, identify wherethere are racial gaps, but maybe more
importantly, to put into place itput into place suggestions for trying to address
those gaps. And that works becauseyou're pulling from people from different levels of
the organization and you're tasking them withfinding a solution, not just saying you're
the problem, you're doing something wrong, or being oblivious to the problems that

(14:56):
exist. People are actually working ontrying to fix those problems, and that's
been shown to create more measurable outcomes. I'm talking to you about diversity.
It was interesting when I was readinghow you said that diversity training, the
diversity equity and closing training doesn't work. And I always wondered, you know,
when I was taking some of thetraining, if that actually did work.
You know, I thought it wasreally interesting, good that I'm taking

(15:18):
it. But does it actually work? And you say it doesn't work?
Why do you think that? Andwhat do you think should be done instead?
Yeah, so I was actually thinkingof that in my last answer to
you. As a counterpoint to whatthe data shows about diversity. Task forces
research shows that task forces work.Task forces work research shows the opposite about
diversity training. It has not beenshown to improve the numbers of black workers

(15:41):
in leadership, particularly if we weretalking about mandated diversity training. And there's
a couple of reasons why that's thecase. For white workers, when they
are mandated to attend diversity trainings,they often start to feel resentful. They
feel as if they are being blamed, and they feel as if they are
being seen as the scapegoat or thereason why this training is happening, and
consequently that makes them less likely towant to be receptive to learning more about

(16:03):
racial issues in the workplace, andperhaps counterintuitively, black workers often also are
a bit skeptical and doubtful of diversitytrainings, especially when they are mandated,
because for black workers, I foundthat they feel as if the organization is
not genuinely committed to addressing the realconcerns that they face, but is doing
so more out of an effort tomaintain regulatory compliance and to be consistent with

(16:26):
laws or actively head off an antidiscrimination lawsuit. So we find that on
both counts, these sets of workersaren't really feeling diversity trainings, particularly mandated
ones, and that they are notshown to increase the numbers of black workers
in leadership. In fact, quitethe opposite, and that's part of why
issues are that's part of why initiativeslike diversity task forces yield different results.

(16:49):
They don't place blame per se,but they focus on collecting data and they
push people to work together collectively acrossthe organization to find solutions. I love
the fact that you're saying that thesetask force will find out different conclusions based
on the place where they work,so there's no blanket answer for what the
solution is it depends on where youwork at and what the dynamics are of

(17:11):
that workplace, right exactly. Yeah, I mean companies are just very different.
Organizations are different. They have differentcultures, which is one of the
things that I talk about in thebook. So what works at a large,
global, multinational corporation may not necessarilywork at a small family owned business,
but it becomes necessary for people internalto the organization, so do the
work and to figure out what theissues are and what the solutions are.

(17:33):
For those of you who are justjoining as mister Dillard speaking with doctor Adia
Harvey Wingfield, and she is aleading sociologist and a celebrated author who researches
racial and gender inequality in professions inprofessional occupations. Doctor Wingfield is a professor
of Arts and Sciences and Westin forFaculty Development and Diversity at Washington University in

(17:56):
Saint Louis, Missouri. She justrecently released her book Ray Areas, How
the way we work perpetuates racism andwhat we can do to fix it.
Now, just piggybacking on the lastanswer to your question. At the end
of the chapters in your book,you kind of provide a sort of checklist
for DEI managers. But my questionis if DEI managers really aren't really given

(18:19):
power in a corporation or company tomake those changes, and upper management has
kind of created this position as windowdressing, so to speak, how can
those actually be helpful or actually makechange. Yeah, that's a great question
and it underscores and it's really criticalfor companies not just to hire DEI managers.

(18:40):
That is an important first step,and DEI managers can do a lot
of really important necessary work. Theycan hold people's feed to the fire,
they can help come up with solutions, they can meet with managers and offer
feedback. But in order to dothat, they've got to have the resources.
And if companies hire DEI managers butthey do not resource them, they
do not give them the support that'srequired, they don't offer them a direct
window and a direct relationship with peoplewho are in the c suite and senior

(19:03):
leadership roles, then like you said, it does become really hard for those
managers to be able to do thejobs of the best of their ability and
at the full capacity. So whenpeople are thinking about what organizations can do,
I certainly want to emphasize that DEImanagers are really important, and they
just are. It's really critical tohave people who are tasked with leading this
type of work and focusing on havinga broad company vision. But again,

(19:26):
like with any other job, it'shard to do a job effectively if you
don't have the resources that you needto carry out the tasks that you've been
assigned. Also, you mentioned inthe book something that I have read about
a lot of black professionals who complainabout the glass ceiling or the glass cliff,
as you've kind of talked about itin your book, where opportunities are

(19:48):
not extended and perhaps denied. Canyou talk about what you found in your
research, why that happens, andwhat can be done to fix that.
Yeah, So the glass glass cliffconcept refers to this idea that underrepresented workers,
particularly black people and white women,are more likely to be hired into
leadership roles when a company is alreadyin crisis. And the most high profile

(20:14):
example that I always think of aboutthat is Barack Obama. Actually, I
remember an Onion headline shortly after hewas elected that said, black man given
the America's worst job. And Ithought that things were for your younger listeners
they may not remember, but thingswere quite dicey and a lot of other
chaos happening. So that's a highprofile example, but it is one that

(20:36):
has been studied by researchers and aphenomenon that is fairly common in many many
companies. Where I would say companiescan think about trying to avoid that tendency
is deceptively simple. The issue isto make sure that you are bringing in
more opportunities for black leaders across theboard and in a variety of context.
So not bringing people when your companyis facing a bankruptcy or about to go

(20:57):
off the cliff, but making surethat your main attaining a consistent pipeline of
potential black leaders who have opportunities tomove into leadership and CEO roles. And
I'll give a big part of thatis making sure that people have the mentoring,
the sponsorship, and the training tomove to those opportunities, which is
also something I talk about in yourbook. And that means that the corporate
leadership has to be open to beingmentors and guidance for the new employees and

(21:22):
giving them an idea of what someof the things that they're looking for in
terms of advancement. That's a reallygood point. There are so many points
in this book, too many toget in fifteen minutes, But I do
want to ask you, what isthe I guess the most important thing that
you want people to come away withafter reading this. I think the So,
if I can cheat a little bit, I think there's two. So

(21:42):
the main things that I really wantreaders to have. One is a better
understanding of the types of challenges thatare facing black workers in our contemporary organizations.
I think when it comes to work, we often have this idea that
the person who works the hardest andis most qualified gets the job, and
that's the beginning and the end ofthe story. But research mine in my

(22:03):
colleagues shows that it's not really thatstraightforward. In many cases, that's often
not what happens. And I'd likefor people to come away with the book
with an understanding of how for blackworkers they often face myriad obstacles and disadvantages
at every stage of the work process. So the other thing I'd like people
to come away with are the realityis the reality that there are solutions,
and there are things that they cando in their own lives. There are

(22:25):
things that companies can do to tryto offset these challenges and to make our
organizations different ones, better ones,and ones that more fit the needs of
a modern multiracial society. Well,I know you've put in a lot of
work into this book. You saidyou interviewed hundreds of workers, you know,
in stairwells and other strange places totalk to people. That must have

(22:48):
been a challenge in itself, tryingto keep everything in order, you know,
as far as being a writer,any advice for someone who's doing kind
of tackling a project as big asyours, what would you say? Actually,
that is a great question, Andpeople ask me that all the time,
and I always tell them, especiallyif you're thinking about a book project,
to shrink it down and think aboutit one page at a time,

(23:10):
because I think if you think aboutthe fact that you owe your editor eighty
thousand words, that's so daunting andso intimidating. But if you tell yourself
just write a page, just getthrough a page. One page turns into
another page, and then you lookup a while later and you've got a
whole chapter, and then you justkeep doing that in the book builds and
grows. But I think whittling itdown to kind of the bare essence of

(23:32):
the page really helps to make adifference. Wow, I appreciate your advice,
and I'm sure there's a lot ofwriters out there that appreciate your advice
as well. Thank you, doctorHarvey Wingfield for joining us on at bi
in. Thank you for having meand the book is great areas how the
way we work perpetuate racism and whatwe can do to fix it. I'm

(23:52):
mister Dillard on the Black Information Network. Thanks esther. She has a new
album out called Jaquelin. But thispowerhouse gospel artist started performing at the age
of twelve and the Black Information Networkson Met Gordon talks to Jaquelin Carr about
when she realized she had a callingfor what she does and does she see

(24:17):
herself having her own church. Wefind out in this episode of The Gospel
Truth. Thanks Mike in the studiowith us today for this segment of The
Gospel Truth. Is the one andonly misster Qaelyn Carr. How you doing
today, I'm good. How areyou? I am doing great? I
am doing great again. One ofmy good friends in the gospel industry.
I've seen you grow up. Everyonehas seen you grow up. In this

(24:40):
industry. And now, ma'am rightnow, your album Jaquelin is out right
now you can go get it rightnow. And how did it feel to
have another one under your belt?It feels great. It's been four years
since I've recorded an hour. Lastone I recorded was in Atlast, Georgia,

(25:00):
and this one is special to mebecause I didn't take the traditional traditional
route that I normally would like,you know, it was like during this
whole that whole time, God waslike, there's more in you and I
want you to access that more andso I did. And I also collaborated
on this album as well, sothere's you know a few Uh. Now,
you didn't just collaborate, girl,you you said, let me get

(25:22):
the army of the Lord with meon this one. I was like Tasha
Cobs on it elevation Yah Papa sign, she said, let's go down to
the islands. Yes, heard fromJaquelin. So what did you like to
collect? Because usually, to behonest with you, when it comes to
your albums, it's really a Jaquelincar album. What I'm used to hearing

(25:44):
not a lot of collaborations, maybeone or two, but this one you
really played around with it a littlebit. What was the reason for that,
I don't know. I just wantedto do something different, And like
I said, over that course ofthe four years, I was able to,
you know, think things through andkind of see what direction I wanted
to go in. And I studiedeach song and I was like, yeah,
I hear this person on that thatperson, And of course everybody was

(26:06):
like, yeah, of course I'llbe a part. Let's go ahead and
get one of these songs in.I'm gonna play a little bit of you
Carried Me right here on the blackperspective. That's my chestimony. I'm gonna

(26:32):
win that you carry that is youcarried Me. That will possibly be the
next single on that. I'm possible. I'm not possible. I've I've been
hearing that he leaves kind of.But I will always remember the first time
I saw you. First time Imet you, I believe you were thirteen

(26:53):
fourteen something like that. It wasI was working for those that are know
there's a pastor John Hannah in Chicago. I was working on his morning show
and we did a live event atsix in the morning, and I just
remember you were I think the firstartist to go like at six fifteen in
the morning, here comes this fourteenyear old with the mic, and I'm

(27:15):
just like, yeah, ain't shesupposed to be in school? Something's coming
up? Like who brought the fourteenyear old? If you had to say?
And then you started going and Iwas just like woo. And to
be honest, you know, Iwasn't really into the church at the time,
you know, I was just aproducer of a radio show. And
getting introduced to you at such ayoung age, I'm like, this is

(27:36):
what they're doing now the fourteen yearslike this, So to start at such
a young age. I've talked toother artists about their calling when they heard
their calling. For me, thequestion I have for you is, did
you have a calling at fourteen?Or did that everyone saw the talent and
they put you in a situation toperform? What do you What I mean,

(27:59):
it's very obvious is that I wascalled called No, I was I
was about this. Oh, yes, I knew. I knew it very
young. I actually knew when Iwas about five years old. Actually maybe
a little before that. I justknew this is what I wanted to do.
I come from a singing family,grew up singing in church and all
of that, but at the endof the day, I couldn't get away
from it because every time I turnedaround, I was singing. I was

(28:21):
in the mirror, I was whateverit had to do with music. And
so now what I didn't know Iwould do was be preaching. God called
me at thirteen to speak or whatever. And it wasn't until I accepted that
calling that my music and everything elsejust fell in line, fell in place.
And so you were able to hearme at fourteen and fifteen with Greater

(28:42):
is Coming because I accepted my callingof preaching at thirteen, because grown,
I was uncomfortable. I've grown yousounded when I first heard you, and
like you said, because not onlythat, at fourteen, you did preach
at the end of it, likethe song was over, you kept on
going, and I was like,and I was. I was not in
that world at the time, soI was very confused about what the heck

(29:04):
I was seeing. Yeah, andwhat you were doing. I was like,
normal, it's definitely I just Iknew I was born, born to
do it, you know, youknow when you have that feeling like this
is me, this is where I'msupposed to be I've always had that.
You know, I have a greatrelationship with your dad, and he has
been your manager for a while andit's kind of cultivated this this brand for

(29:26):
you. And so I always wonderedI was like dad, because at the
end of the day, a childcan only do so much if they know
they're gifted, but they can't takethemselves here and there or do that.
And he's just it was his chargeas a father, you know what I
mean, to cultivate what was inme. And I'm grateful that I have

(29:47):
the father that I have, themother that I have that saw what was
in me, and I just sawit but sacrifice to make sure that I
could be who I am today.Man. I love Itaquelin Carr a new
album out right now called Kalen,And we talked about the album. We
talked about your calling. We talkedabout you figuring out at the age of

(30:08):
five that you were supposed to besinging. The calling was to sing,
but then at thirteen, your callingwas to preach. Can we talk about
preaching for a second, because Ireally didn't I knew, like I said,
I saw you talk at the endof the song. I didn't really
think of it. Okay, youa preacher, what's it been like for
you preaching? Because you kind ofyou get called to preach, not just
so like no, we don't needyou to preach here and not sing,

(30:30):
or you know, we want youto preach here, but we're the sneaker
song in there to get you out. Of course, I'm wing a sneak
a song in there. What's itbeen like for you? Could? And
do you see yourself maybe having yourown church someday? It's been great.
I love what I do. Ican't really choose which one I love the
most, because, like like yousaid, when I go places to preach,
like you sing a little bit,and I may even just you know,

(30:53):
but because I know what people wantto hear and all that, and
I just do it. And thenwhen I seen like they expect ministry from
me, and so I love it. I love what I do as far
as the pastor thing. If theLord ain't calling, ain't answering, there's
been good catching up with you,Q. They new album qualin in stores

(31:15):
now. Can buy it anywhere,maybe not best buy because they're gett rid
of DVDs and CDs, so maybenot best, but go ahead and download
it, order it, do whatyou need to do to get that.
You got to spell my name forhim. K A L. Why end?

(31:36):
One more time for the people jE K A L. Why end?
Can you let me know before Ilet you go? What is your
gospel truth? My gospel truth isjust continuing to show the characteristics of Jesus
through our in our everyday lives.You know, love, joy, happiness,
and all of that for people whomay not know who Jesus is or
may not go to church, butthey can see them on you and they

(31:57):
can be drawn to Him by that. So I would definitely have to say
that, Thank you so much,Chequela and Lee always appreciate you. And
again go ahead and pick up Jaquelinavailable right now. Back to you,
Mike, thanks med. President JoeBiden and other White House officials met with
multiple former college football players on Wednesdayto discuss the working rights of college athletes,

(32:21):
an unprecedented show of support for playersin the battle over the status of
so called student athletes, one ofthe longest running and most contentious debates in
American sports. ESPN analyst Ryan Clarkand Rod Gilmour attended the roundtable and talked
to the black information that works.Morgan would about the discussion. A name,
image and likeness or NIL deal isdescribed as an agreement between a student

(32:45):
athlete and a third party, suchas a brand, company, or individual,
where the student athlete receives compensation forthe use of their name. Image
and likeness and IL deals have grownin popularity since July twenty twenty one,
when the NCAA proved them, butpolicies surrounding them are different in each state.
Joining me to discuss the White Houseefforts to support NIL deals in college

(33:08):
athletes is Ryan Clark. He playedsafety at Louisiana State University, was selected
All SEC second team, named LSU'sSpecial Teams Player of the Year, and
went on to play for the NewYork Giants, Washington Redskins, and in
twenty eleven he made a Pro Bowlappearance and won a Super Bowl ring with
the Pittsburgh Steelers. Thank you forjoining me, Ryan, Let's kick things

(33:29):
off with your discussion with President Bidenabout name, image and likeness deals.
How did that go? Yeah,So, what we're doing right now is
we want to inform the president andhis staff about some of the things that
are facing the student athlete obviously nowwith name, image and likeness, and
then wait that the NC double Atruly wash their hands of the situation before

(33:51):
and after. It's basically the wildwild West, and you have all of
these people from the NCUBA now warrantteam to cap it. But you want
to camp without talking about a minimum, without talking about how the female soccer
player can be compensated just as themale football player is compensated. Who's the
eighty fourth scholarship player not the HeismanTrophy candidate. And also too, we

(34:15):
wanted to speak about the working conditions, the fact that there is no regulation
on there's a twenty hour rule,but who make sure the college is adhere
to that? And now you're askingthese young players to adhere to those rules
without any promise or any guarantee ofcompensation for what they're doing. And so
we just wanted the president to understandthat one the players need a voice.

(34:37):
The players need a voice not onlyin the NC double A, the university
and those organizations, but they needa voice on Capitol Hill as well.
The same way the NC double Acan come here and speak to the president,
the same way the NC double Acan come here and speak to the
committees. The players need the voicein that same room, at that same
table, And I think those weremore some of the things that we were

(34:59):
talking about, some of the thespecifications and solutions that can be fall into
that as well. Do you foreseethe NC DOUAA stepping in to govern anil
deals or do you think it willcontinue to be state to state should there
be a blanket policy implemented by thefederal government. Hence why you had a

(35:19):
conversation with President Biden. The factthat it's governing state by state is because
you want to allow universities and theNC DOUBLEA as a whole to not be
culpable for anything. Now you haveno accountability, Now you have no responsibility
to the student athlete. So let'snot say that that was a way they
chose to legislate it. That wasthe way they chose to not be involved

(35:39):
in it, which is first andforemost, and I foresee it being that
unless they feel like there's a benefitto them to have it under one roof,
which would be the NC double A, if they in some way manipulate
it to where it works better forthat organization. And so if that's going
to happen, right, if itis going to be legislated a different way,

(36:00):
not the players in the student athletesdo need a voice, because when
you're talking about everything being handled ona state level, right, there will
be people in there. There willbe people that are part of those legislations
that may look out for the studentathletes. If it now goes to the
NC DOUBLEA, they are now makingthe rules much as they made the rules
to build a twenty billion dollar organizationoff of the backs of free labor.

(36:24):
I think they will continue to seethings in that like and work from that
perspective in prison, which we can'tallow them to do. We don't want
to take this huge step forward andnow take five steps back in the NC
DOUBLEA now becoming the leader in handlingthe name, image enlighteness. That all
sounds great if your name is ShadorSanders or Angel Reese. But how can

(36:46):
the small town college or the smallHBCU bowling athlete, the small HBCU volleyball
athlete leverage NIL deals to work forthem. I think what we have to
be understanding of is, you know, I played thirteen years in the NFL
and everyone was compensated, but noteveryone was compensated the same. I'm not

(37:08):
saying that the HBCU athlete deserves orshould get paid as Andurice is getting paid.
What I'm saying is the HBCU athletedeserves more than zero. And so
what we have to figure out iswhen you're talking about the HBCU school that
isn't bringing in the amount of moneyas the power fives, how do you

(37:31):
distribute their money and their opportunities asopposed to the lsus in what you mentioned.
And I think that's a larger conversation. Speaking of conversations, who's having
that conversation on campus with the studentathletes? Is it coaches, is it
teammates, is it random people,athletic directors? Who's having that conversation about

(37:52):
what to look for in an NILdeal? Because I can imagine not all
deals are good. So that's turnedinto a recruiting tool for agents and agencies.
When you're looking at the cias theathletes first, the w andmes they
are now because you can't sign akid to an agent, but you can
sign him to a marketing deal.And so now as you sign him too

(38:14):
a marketing deal and you manage him, what is that doing you're managing his
branding deals as an NIL player,expecting when that guy becomes a first round
draft pick, he signs to thesame agency to be represented for his play
as a professional. But the issueis not that kid who can get a
marketing deal, who can get amanager. This issue is the kid that

(38:35):
can that may only bring in twentythousand dollars, who's having the conversation with
him of how to not only navigatethat money, but navigate negotiating those deals.
And there's the means of the worldwho do it because I have certain
relationships who do it because at myschool, in particular, my voice is
valued by the president of the school, and so I am brought in to

(38:58):
have these conversations. There are committeesat schools that try to help these kids
understand what the new world is asit pertains to name, image and likeness.
And then there's bad advisors. Right. Then there's the guy that runs
the AAU team in Maryland who everytime he takes a kid to campus,

(39:19):
he's saying, Hey, keep mesome of the NIL money, or how
much do I get? How muchdo I get when I bring these four
or five stars to campus? Right? And so when he's doing that,
who's speaking up for that student athletesaying, well, that shouldn't come out
of what this kid has the abilityto earn R And So I think what

(39:40):
happened when the NCAA didn't put rulesand regulations around nil, they sort of
opened a Pandora's box that can't beclosed without hurting some of the people who
are benefiting from you know, especiallywhen you refuse to have the conversation with
the players, and when you don'thave a union right when you don't have

(40:07):
a governing body negotiating on your behalfexplaining things to the entire group, you
can now also pin, as youmentioned earlier, you can pit the angel
Reesis against the eighty fifth scholarship playeron the football team and say, why
would you want to give up threemillion dollars just so they have fifteen thousand.

(40:30):
What do you think the president tookaway from this conversation, Well,
I think he received it well.I also think he welcomed an opportunity to
just have conversation. You know,he shared a lot of stories about his
life. We got a tour ofthe Oval office as well, which I
wasn't which I wasn't prepared for Ithought that was amazing. But he asked

(40:52):
questions. He asked, Okay,what are the biggest issues facing the student
athlete? And then had that wespoke about in NIL and someone brought up
working conditions, someone brought up thehealth and player health and safety, which
there is again no rules and regulationsfor in college ball. He said,

(41:13):
Okay, what are your biggest concernsthere? And you know, I'm sure
you've been in a relationship before,Morgan. You know, it feels good
when somebody asks you a follow upquestion because it means they listen to the
first answer, you know, Andhe was engaged. He seems care.
The committee around him seem the careand so hopefully this isn't the last conversation

(41:35):
we had the ability to have.That was former college and pro football star
Ryan Clark. Next week, Morganwill continue this conversation with former college and
pro football player Rod Gilmour. TheDirect Relief's Fund for Health Equity was created
to increase access to healthcare and improvehealth outcomes for marginalized communities. The Black
Information That Works Mimi Brown is backwith an organization that talked about how Direct

(41:58):
Relief has benefit to their community.I Mimi Round from the Black Information Network
and I am honored to be inconversation today with mister Henry Ford from a
Promise to Help, a nonprofit organizationbased in Alabama. The organization is dedicated
to improving the quality of life forthose who are experiencing financial hardship, lack
of access to healthcare, and otherchallenges that can impact their well being.

(42:22):
Mister Ford, thank you for takingthe time to speak with me. We
are so excited about the work thatyou were doing. How are you?
I am blessed and thankful. Howare you doing today? I'm well.
Thank you for asking. So let'sjust get started. Can you tell us
about the history of a Promise toHelp and how it got started? Yes,

(42:44):
this is our twentieth year anniversary.We started out of a fast that
my wife and I we went onwith our church and doing that fast,
we were praying about just different thingsand we ran across an article in the

(43:06):
Birmingham Times that was talking about theBlack Belt, Alabama's Third World and we
started reading that article doing that fast, and it just rekindled something a promise
my wife had made when she wasa child. The dad took her to

(43:27):
the doctor. Well, while shewas waiting, an older lady got really
sick and she was moaning and andall like that. And my wife was
about eight, and she said thatshe asked her dad, she said,
Dad, why want anybody to cometo help her? And then make a
long story short, Well, nobodycame. She actually died there in the

(43:51):
waiting room, waiting to be seen. And she remembers making a promise to
her dad. She said, Dad, if God allow me to become I'm
a physician, I'm going to comeback and help down here. And so
fast forward, you know, thirtyyears or whatever later, twenty something years
later, and now that she wasa physician in practicing, and now we

(44:15):
are sitting here experiencing this together becauseboth our parents were from the Black Belt
and so we both had a tiethere. And she told me about this
promise she made, and it justkind of stimulated writing this vision. And
God gave us this vision of howwe could help, and so we wrote
that down and that became our roadmapand we are still following that road map

(44:39):
twenty years later, and it's justbeen a blessing and we've been able to
service people in the Black Belt fortwenty years now, we've fed over thirty
thousand people, we've clothed over twentythousand, we've had we set up clinic

(45:00):
in the communities. We go tofree clinics and we treated over ten thousand
folks and giving them medicines and opportunitiesto have physicals done and the work and
ekg's and all the type of Wehave about four different tests machines that we

(45:22):
have available, and so that's whatwe've been doing the last twenty years.
We also feed everybodyuse we go tothe most under ensured, most impovious communities
in the black Belt, Alabama's BlackBelt for those of you are familiar with
those twelve thirteen counties. First ofall, I want to go back really

(45:45):
quick, and I have to sayyour wife, Sandra, sounds like an
amazing woman. And the name apromise to help. Thank you for telling
us that story, because now weknow where that name came from. It
sounds like you guys are really reallymaking an impact the community. And I
want to know how has receiving thedirect grant relief impacted your organization's ability to

(46:07):
provide aid to those in need.I know you mentioned it was free,
but tell me how the direct grantrelief is aiding you in your your quest
to help the community. They werethe first real grant that we've ever gotten.
And so what happens when they cameinto we had a old mobile clinic.

(46:29):
That was it was. It wascrazy because maybe and in my house
some reason to do with why wegot the grant from directly Release, because
we had people have been telling usthat you should go on to become a
five O one C three. Sothe first fifteen years, okay, we
didn't ask for any money per se. We would just do. Our concept

(46:52):
was to people give of themselves.So all these volunteers were volunteers and you
just bring what you had our mattodo what you can do, and that's
what we spread around. So whenDirect Release came in our life, it
was such a great time. Wewere able to uh help. They helped
us get a new mobile clinic becauseour mobile clinic just stopped on the highway

(47:15):
one time and it just decided itwasn't going in the more. We gotta
all we could get out of it. So but and so they came and
so we were able to h geta mobile clinic and then in the second
year. Uh we getting a trucknow with their ongoing and doing also it's

(47:37):
supplying hooking us up with organizations thatsupply all kinds of different medicines and and
care. They sent us some carepackages full of all kinds of things that
we passed out. And so wehad this long table, uh may maybe
about five or six of those thoselong eight foot tables just lined up together

(47:59):
and we had supplies to stack uphaith on both of them so the people
could come down with their bags andjust get a tissue, get paper,
towels, get sanitary and nappers,get soaked, your toothpaste, get you
know, those essential things that everybodyneeds. You know, Direct Belief is
still helping them. That's not allthey're doing. But I'll stop breaking.

(48:22):
I Memi Brown with the Black InformationNetwork, and I am in conversation with
mister Henry Ford from a Promise toHelp in Alabama. We are talking about
the incredible work that they are doingto make a difference in the lives of
those in their community. Mister Ford, one more question for you and just
you know, if there's anything thatyou would like to share about a Promise

(48:44):
to Help that we haven't covered.I'm sure our listeners would love to know
how they can connect, how theycan volunteer, you know what they can
do to be of service to you. Please go to our website and a
promise to help dot com word apromise to help dot com financial help.

(49:05):
We have all our means of receivinga financial assistance from you, and we
have our calendars and dates and addresswhere we're going to be for the next
year. Every month we go oncea month and we'll have that listed.
You're in Birmingham, if you're inthe Black Belt somewhere, you want to

(49:25):
come and participate. You got aservice, Please give us a call or
you could just show up. MisterFord, thank you so much for taking
the time to speak with us todayhere at the Black Information Network. We
are so excited about the work thatyou were doing. Thank you so much
for filling in our listeners. Well, thank you and you have a blessing,
wonderful day. Thanks mem Doug Davisis back with another your Black Business

(49:49):
as he speaks with an organization thatis putting black workers without a four year
degree into family sustaining positions. Doug, this is Doug Davis with your Black
Business and we are back with anotherupdate from one ten. One ten is
a coalition of top executives and companiescommitted to hiring, promoting, and advancing
one million black people without four yeardegrees to family sustaining careers with us.

(50:13):
To catch us up to date withthe progress is CEO Debbie Dyson. Debbie,
welcome back to the bi in rankdev Thanks for having me. Happy
to be here, GSN. We'rehappy to have you here as well,
so catch us up to date.Can you tell me about one ten's recent
research on skills first hiring. Whydid you feel it was important to do
this type of research? Yeah,I mean it's you know, from the
very beginning with one ten two anda half years ago when we formed,

(50:37):
our initial focus was all around studyingthe needs of black talents, you know,
without four year degrees. As timeis obviously moved on, I think
what we've come to realize is thatin order for us to gain more attraction,
it's really getting deeper into the mindsof our hiring managers in terms of
what are they looking for and theneed to really lean into what we would
call this skills first hiring mindset andreally what that's all about is, you

(51:01):
know, helping managers understand that youcan really focus on skills as a pathway
opposed to the college degree. Right, So what do the research tell you?
What were the key takeaways from thesurvey findings? Seventy seven percent of
our hiring managers absolutely see the benefitsof using a skills first approach. They're
challenged by trying to open up thepathways for more talents. You know,

(51:24):
if every person in America actually didget a job fascinating enough, we would
still be four million dollars a jobshort. So there's definitely a need to
try to find more talents and againgoing this particular pathway. So I think
that's one thing. I think theother piece that they've come to realize is
that when you're able to lean intoa skills first approach, your productivity actually

(51:45):
improves because you're very very specific ona specific job type. If you're looking
to do cybersecurity, we are trainingyou for cybersecurity, and that's it.
After you know, six weeks,eight weeks, twelve weeks, depending upon
the link of the program, andyou are ready to go, you are
quote unquote work ready. I thinkthe other piece that we've seen is beyond

(52:05):
the talent that's coming in the otherassociates that are working with new people that
are coming into the organization are feelingmore engaged, so now they are equally
more productive. And then in return, it's sort of this wonderful service profit
chain. You know, better employees, happier returns, happier clients. So
it's actually sort of a full circle. That's why we wanted to do the

(52:25):
survey, and I think the benefitsof it definitely gave us the insights that
we were hoping to find. Gotcha, we want to switch gears just a
quick second. You know, withthe attack on DEI initiatives by some right
wing conservative groups that are trying todo away with it, saying that,
you know, DEI is discriminatory againstwhite people, you know, what kind

(52:46):
of feedback are you getting from,let's say, some of your top corporate
companies regarding their DEI initiatives and whatyou're doing right now with one ten Yeah,
I mean it's a great question.You know, at the end of
end of June, where we werefortunate enough to have a meeting like two
weeks later, and we were ableto gather all of our CEOs and our
CHROs and the folks that are leadingthe diversity efforts, and we had a

(53:08):
pretty robust conversation about you, howare you feeling? And you know,
I will tell you very uplifting.There was not a blink or a hesitancy
in terms of the need for usto stave the course that if we companies
are still committed and dedicated to thiswork as well as just DEI overall,
this type of narrative or the disruptionthat's out there shouldn't be enough to sort

(53:32):
of knock us off our path.So I think, if anything, it
probably gave the organizations in one tenas well more resiliency to lean in further,
because if you think about the attackmore or less, that says this
is benefiting not necessarily the case.Our intention was absolutely to close this racial
opportunity wealth gap that we've seen usingthis approach. However, as a result

(53:57):
of what we've been doing, otherraces other people have actually benefit as well.
So this isn't so singular that you'reonly helping black talent. It's much
more broad, it's much more robust, and companies are giving us evidence of
that and a resiliency again as acommunity to sort of lock arms and stand
taller opposed to shrink, you know. Again, based on this noise and

(54:19):
this disruption that's coming, it's it'squite it's like humbling, but it's very
very encouraging, and I think that'sgiven us even more momentum, you know,
candidly over the last couple of months, which is a surprise and maybe
an extra benefit that we had notseen coming. That's a great perspective.
What are some of the great opportunitiesright now that you're seeing, I should
say, the trends, the jobtrends where people without four year degrees are

(54:43):
getting, you know, some goodpaying opportunities. What's out there right now?
Yeah, no, it's one.It's a great question. Let me
tell you. There's probably three orfour spaces that I will tell you are
incredibly hot and have been hot forquite some time, probably not a surprise.
One of them being healthcare. Soif you think about when we were
formed two and a half years ago, it was in the height of the
pandemic. So the need for healthcarejust around nurse practitioners, you know,

(55:07):
clinical labs, specialists. There arevery very good jobs, high paying jobs
with focus skills training. You canget into those jobs pretty quickly. And
the healthcare industry is quite eager fortrying to find young, not even just
young, but experience people regardless ofwhat their prior background is to sort of
lean in there. So that's numberone. Number two, a lot of

(55:28):
logistical positions. So when we saythat, you know, you've got you
know, the Amazons, the UPS's, the Federal expresses, anything that sort
of does delivery type services or hotI mean, I don't know about you,
but I'm like on Amazon all daylaunch. So the need to obviously
get your baggage is quicker from whoeverthe distributor is is really an area of
focus. So that's the second.Hospitality and retail. You know, airline

(55:52):
industry, hotel industry has definitely reboundedpost pandemic, so the need for the
customer services and those that to getinto that field. And then the last
which is again probably no surprise,is still it, but the focus on
it, which is interesting is nowlike cybersecurity, you know, how do
you protect your data, your datapersonally or your data for a company.

(56:14):
Lots of eagerness to try to getpeople that are interested in that field,
which the subset of that is isyou know, I'm sure a hot topic
for many of us is you knowthis artificial intelligence and how do you actually
lean and learn you know, whatthese bots are doing so that you can
benefit from doing the programming around that. So that's that's the other area that
we've seen. Wow, what ifa blackmail that may have somewhat of a

(56:37):
peppered past and I've been rehabilitated,I'm in society and I just can't seem
to crack that ceiling. What wouldyou tell someone you know who may be
a former convict who is looking toget that job to help out his family.
You know, there is an awarenessobviously people have a past and whatever
that pask happens to be. We'relooking for companies that are willing to I

(57:00):
don't want to say ignore, butobviously have an awareness that this may have
been that path. But we're tryingto go a different direction. So if
you focus on who the individual isand what they can offer right now,
and that we have trained whoever thatis in terms of the skills that they
need, I think it does givea different perspective. So I think to
me, one ten is about openingthe aperture for without the four year degree,

(57:22):
whatever your past might be, butgiving opportunity where opportunities typically have been
closed. So there have been i'llsay, areas of success and so think
you can come here and we candefinitely help round you out. That's great.
Outside of mediums like this the BlackInformation Network, how are you getting
the word out and how can peopleyou know learn more about it? Yeah,

(57:44):
that's great. Like we just recentlydid a campaign around you know,
sort of higher skills for higher returns. So it was a whole advertising campaign
in elevators on trains, So wedid a big blitz to really sort of
elevate who is one tend today.So that's one place. Our website continues
to evolve. So you know www. Dot O N E T e N

(58:07):
dot org is another great place.It has all the information our companies that
are in there, the trainers andthe talent developers that we use. We
have talent stories. Stories are sopowerful, So if you want to learn
more about people that have actually benefitedfrom our efforts, you know, our
website is a fantastic place to go. So you know, we're on LinkedIn,
We're on Twitter, so just followingus there as well. We have

(58:30):
events, we do different panels.I mean, we're definitely continuing to get
our name out there so that thisis something that again becomes more infectious.
We need to grow not only thepeople and talent that are coming to one's
end. We want more companies toreally lean in and understand that this is
the best place to come in orderto elevate not only just through diversity focus,

(58:52):
but to elevate just a different wayto expand and get good talent into
good jobs. One tend Ceowi Dyson, thank you. Thank you so much
for catching us up to date withthe progress going on, and I know
our listeners are very very encouraged bythe things that you guys are doing over
there. Keep up the great work. My name is Doug Davis. You're
listening to The Black Perspective on theBlack Information Network. Thanks Doug for more

(59:15):
on these stories. Listen to theBlack Information Network on the free iHeartRadio app
or log onto binnews dot com whereyou can hear this program in its entirety
on demand. Also follow us onsocial media at Black Information Network and on
x formerly known as Twitter. Atblack Info Net, we thank you for
joining us on the Black Perspective andlook forward to continuing to have needed conversations

(59:38):
for the black community. Next week, I'm Mike Island on the Black Information Network.