Black Perspective: October 15, 2023

This week on The Black Perspective, Dr. Clayborne Carson speaks about Martin Luther King, Cynthia Bailey talks about her Real Housewives of Atlanta journey, and Erica Campbell talks about new music and why she obeys God.

Doug Davis rounds out the episode with a conversation with a Black female politician running for mayor of a small coastal town.

Listen now!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It's October fifteenth, and today wetalk to an honoree for the Freedom Awards.
Cynthia Bailey joins us to talk aboutmoving on after divorce. We go
to Jackson State to learn about lifelonglearning, and Erica Campbell joins us for
the Gospel Truth. Those stories aremore coming up. Welcome to the Black
Perspective. I'm your host, Mike. I Welcome to the Black Perspective,

(00:22):
a weekly community affairs program on theBlack Information Network featuring interviews and discussions on
issues important to the black community.Doctor Claiborne Carson is the Martin Luther King
Junior Centennial Professor of History Emeritus atStanford University. He is also going to
be an honoree for a Freedom Awardthis week in Memphis. The Black Information
That Works. Mike Stevens talks tothe honoree about his research of Martin Luther

(00:45):
King, Junior and the Freedom Awards. All right, Mike, thank you.
The National Civil Rights Museum every yearhas a Freedom Award. It's the
Museum's signature event. It pays tributeto outstanding people for their signals and contributions
to civil and human rights. Thisyear it has taking place October nineteenth at

(01:07):
the historic Orphium Museum in Memphis,Janareez This year are Kerry Kennedy, Stacy
Abrams, and Claiborne Carson. KerryKennedy is the president of the Robert F.
Kennedy Human Rights Organization. Stacy Abramsis best selling author, civil rights
activist and political leader. And doctorClaiburn Carson, who is my guest today,

(01:33):
perhaps knows more about doctor Martin LutherKing, Junior than any academic.
He's the Centennial Professor of History Emeritusat Stanford University. He's devoted his professional
life to the study of doctor MartinLuther King, Jr. And the human
rights movements inspired by Caretta and MartinLuther King and Mahatma Gandhi and other visionaries.

(01:57):
We are so glad to have youwith us today. Good to be
with you. So in nineteen eightyfive, as I understand, Ita Scott
King chose you to edit and publisha multi volume edition of her late husband's
speeches, sermons, correspondents, publications, all kinds of writings, which is
quite an honor. And there areso many things about you we could say

(02:19):
in your bio, But before werun out of time saying everything that you've
done, let's get into the researchthat you did with on doctor King.
Of all of the studies that youdid, what were some facts that you
learned about him that surprised you orenlightened you the most. Oh, there's
so many of them, it's hardto even count them, because even though

(02:42):
he was a public figure, hisprivate life is not well known. And
now, for example, she marriedKreta Scott, and she had a life
of her own before she even methim. She was very politically active,
and telling the story of their relationshipship has been an eye opening for me
and I hope for a lot ofother people that she was actually more politically

(03:07):
active than he was when they met. She was two years older, very
much involved in the Progressive Party movementof the late forties and early fifties,
So she brought a lot into therelationship herself. And with respect to Martin
Luther King, knowing a lot abouthis family and his family background, and

(03:28):
his relationship to the church. Avenue'sa Baptist church where he was able to
get a lot of exposure to thecivil rights movement, and I think he
was probably the most well prepared leaderwe can imagine in the sense that it's

(03:49):
almost from all of his training,all of his background, all of his
family life was really devoted to exposinghim to the issues and problems and the
church background that enabled him to besuch an impoctful leader. Do you think
he was more inspired through the connectionof his father and Daddy King or was

(04:13):
it Corretta or a combination. It'salways a combination. You know, he
was inspired by a number of people, but certainly his father's inspiration, Corretta's
encouragement. You know, she couldhave been resistant to him becoming a political
leader, and instead I think shewas very much in favor of that and

(04:35):
made it a lot easier for himto know that she played that supportive role.
How much fear did she have forhis life during those years, Well,
it was not only fear for hislife, but for her life.
She was the one who was homewhen the home was bombed, and Montgomery

(04:57):
he was giving a speech, sothe dangers came to her too, and
I think that you know, obviouslyhe had special dangers because he was often
traveling giving speeches and had more visibility, but both of them faced a lot

(05:19):
of challenges and also she realized thatwhen she was in danger, the children
were also in danger, and soI think she recognized that that was part
of the burden that she had toaccept if she was going to be a
supportive wife of a civil rights leader. Martin, what else did you learn

(05:41):
about him that you had not previouslyknown. I think that he had a
complex relationship with other leaders. Theyall respected him in various ways, but
they did not necessarily wait for himto make the decision to take action,
you know. I think his relationshipwith Fred Shuttlesworth and Birmingham, for example,

(06:01):
is really interesting because Fred Shuttlesworth he'strying to get Martin to come to
Birmingham, seeing that as the crucialplace. If you can make a change
in Birmingham, you can make achange anywhere. But it takes years before
Martin really becomes willing to and immersehimself on the Birmingham campaign. And I
think that that relationship remains complex becauseFred Shuttlesworth during the campaign is injured and

(06:29):
sent to the hospital, and he'snot there when King makes the arrangement with
city leaders to bring the protest toan end, and he's pretty get upset
with it that he was not involvedin those negotiations, so I think there
was always a complex relationship with whowas a crucial person. I think both

(06:49):
needed each other. Martin needed someonelike Fred Shuttlesworth to really make the Birmingham
campaign come into existence in the firstplace. But I think in the end
Shuttlesworth understood that he needed Martin LutherKing to bring national attention to the situations
in Birmingham. There's so much thatwent on during the civil rights movement.

(07:14):
Some of it is public knowledge,some of it has been perhaps confused or
not the whole story told. Iremember some years ago speaking with some of
the civil rights leaders from that day, and they were telling me about the
Rosa Parks situation with the bus refusingto give up her seat. The way
I heard it growing up, itwas like kind of a spontaneous sort of

(07:36):
thing. But the way they explainedit, it was definitely planned. It
was not something that just happened.They had to pick the right person at
the right time, perhaps, andthat made all the difference in the world.
It seems like there's quite a differencein the way civil rights groups seem
to act today. There does notseem to be the same sort. It's
not I'm not condemning anyone, butit just seemed like there was so much

(08:00):
planning that went on Black Doctor Kingand others of his era. That's just
different than now. Am I lookingat it wrong? I think there's always
a mixture between what has done spontaneouslyand what is the actions that are planned
over a long periods of time.I think Rosa Parks was prepared to take
that action, but I don't knowif she made the decision that it was

(08:22):
going to happen on that day.You know, I think she probably saw
herself as you know, I'm notgoing to put up with this anymore.
If it happens, it happens.But she's not the first person who refuses
to give up her seat. Youknow, this happens in Montgomery before that,
with two younger women who refuse togive up their seat and are jailed.

(08:46):
So it's always going to give youthis mixture of spontaneous actions and actions
that are well planned. And Ithink that's what makes the stories so interesting
is that we can't even predict thatMontgomery would become the first crucial place for
the civil rights movement. This couldhave happened in other cities, and very

(09:07):
quickly did happen. Nor could wehave predicted that the first sit ins would
take place in Greensboro, North Carolina, in February of nineteen sixty. You
know, there have been similar kindsof actions in other places. To me,
a movement is rarely planned from beginningto end, something that people get

(09:28):
caught up in. Some of theactions are really unpredictable, how many people
are going to show up, whetherthere are going to be people who take
the first action. This is whatmakes it an interesting story to tell,

(09:50):
quite frankly, that you go inan interview about a movement and interview different
people and they all tell different stories. During my years of living in Atlanta
from the late nineties through the earlytwo thousands, I worked in the news
media and had the great pleasure tomeet missus King on a couple of occasions,

(10:13):
and I thanked her for her service, and it was truly inspiring to
me. For you, personally,it must have given you a great sense
of satisfaction to have been asked byher to do the academic research on her
husband, and then as a blackman. On top of that, there
must have been a personal connection.I was surprised. I had done work

(10:37):
on the civil rights movement, andI've always seen King as the leader,
you know. I was at themarch in nineteen sixty three where he gave
I Have a Dream speech, butI was just part of the crowd.
I was actually closer to the youngerpeople in the audience, people like stuff,
they combins. Who I met rightbefore the march, Martin Luther King,

(11:01):
was kind of up there on apedestal, literally, and was kind
of surprised when I had the opportunitybecause of the King Paper's project to learn
more about his life. And it'sa lot of the young people who jumped
on very quickly with the George Floydmurder exactly. Yeah, and they seem

(11:24):
to be the ones who have ina lot of ways pushed that forward.
I think there's always going to beyoung people involved, in part because they
have less to lose. You know. One of the things about going to
jail is the trument if you've gota job you've got to get to the
next day, you're going to bea little bit more cautious about going to

(11:46):
jail and maybe do a little bitmore planning. But those of us who
went to jail When we were young, well, we might miss classes the
next day or the next week,less risk involved, and I think you're
more likely to take actions that maybeas an older person you would think twice

(12:11):
about. You know, as Ilistened to doctor King's some of his speeches
and interviews that he did from obviouslyyears ago, he mentioned so many things
that are still happening today, forexample, police brutality, economic issues.
What before we let you go?What is one message you would say to

(12:33):
people today, perhaps the young peopletoday, in terms of what they should
keep in mind. I think arecognition that the movement toward a better world
can put it in terms of theworldhouse. When you think of American history,
the Declaration of Independence said all menbeing created equal and then doubt with

(12:56):
these rights of life, liberty,and the pursuit of happiness. And they
knew when they drafted that declaration thatwomen didn't have those rights, Black men,
white men without property didn't have thoserights. So they knew that it
was imperfect. And each generation afterthat has that imperfect society to try to

(13:20):
feel an obligation to perfect it.You know, the passage of the thirteenth,
fourteenth and fifteenth amendments changed American society. But you know the fifteenth amend
that was about the right to vote, it was more than one hundred years
ago. We still have restrictions onthe right to vote. We still have
places where it's made harder for peopleto vote than in other places. So

(13:46):
it's still an incomplete struggle. Well, you certainly have the insight to make
those statements, and we appreciate youcoming on with us. Doctor Clayburne Carson
is again being honored with the FreedomAward on octobri and nineteenth at the Orphium
Theater in Memphis, Tennessee. Wejust appreciate the work that you've done and

(14:07):
we again appreciate you being with us. Thank you, Mike. Thanks Mike,
and remember for tickets to the FreedomAwards, go to Freedom Award dot
Civil Rights Museum dot org. Theawards will be held October nineteenth at the
Orphium Theater in Memphis, Tennessee,sponsored by the National Civil Rights Museum.
Cynthia Bailey is a reality TV star, model, actress, businesswoman, mom,

(14:33):
and so much more. She talkswith Alexandria Icamoni about her newest Seagrim's
Escape Adult Beverage Real Housewives of Atlanta, love her family and what's to come
Alexandria. Right now, you're allaround the country talking about something amazing with
this new flavor, Seagrums. Yes, tell me more about it. I'm

(14:54):
excited. I'm a lost of girls. I'm gonna let you take it over.
Yesom, I'm doing good to great. Yes, I was doing great
because I am launching my second flavorwith Seagrums Escape. You guys are familiar
with my first flavor, the PeachBallini, which I use the signature fruit
move Real Housewives of Atlanta the Peachto inspire me to do my first freak.

(15:16):
Guys, gotta play Most of yougot a chance to watch it all
play out the launch on the broalHousewives of Atlanta, a little bit of
drama Alta. We'll go on tosay that the Peach Blady flavor has gone
on to be Seagrums one of Seagrum'stop three flavor bad. So what that's
said, Since it's been so successfulthat I've had the Seagrums Escapes partnership since

(15:37):
twenty eighteen, so it's been fiveyears. Was doing good. So we
decided that we would do a secondflavor together and I decided to go with
a berry fruit this time. AndI love mimosas because I'm a brunch girl.
Yes, I'm a daytime kind ofgirl. Oh yeah. To be
honest, love a date, guardy, love a brunch, anything that's where

(15:58):
there's some sunlight going. And i'dlike to you know, got to start
wrapping things up around nine too,what I have done with you. So
this so my very hermosa is perfectfor any kind of brunch food, soups,
salads, fish, chicken, whateveryou can think of it. I
brunch. So I think it isthe perfect follow up to my very successful
peace belt. So we're excited totry it. It might be everybody's new

(16:22):
favorite for the fall into next summer. So that's exciting. And we're talking
about passion and we're talking about love. You gotta dive into it just a
little bit, if that's okay,Okay, I know you. Of course,
the divorce and everything from Mike isfinal, lies and everything. How
are you guys, like a terms, Yeah, I'm good. I spoke
to him the other day. Asa matter of fact. Okay, we're
still very cordial and very respectful towardseach other. And the great thing about

(16:47):
you know, the time that wespent together was you know, we we
Mike was part of my journey,Yeah, and I was a part of
his. And the great thing aboutyou know, you know, if you
can look at it positively, andI really look at you know, I'm
very positive. Yeah said, weboth get an opportunity now to find our
person you know, and will alwaysbe friends. That's good. That's good.
Can I ask how long it tookfor you to really get over it?

(17:08):
Or are you still not fully onehundred percent over that? I mean,
I have moved on, but Iwill always have love for Mike.
Yeah, you know, I don'tyou know. If I love you,
I'm gonna love you forever. That'snot me. If I love your boy
to love you forever, that no, mean we need to be married to
each other, right, so thelove will always be there, if that
makes sense. What are your hopesas a mom for her in the upcoming

(17:32):
future if you can, like,I don't know, your mom's like,
my mom is like, hey,give me grandkids in like three years,
not saying that's the path that you'rethinking about, But there's always something your
mom wants for you. What doyou want for Noel in the future.
I think it's the child, thedaughter of two celebrity parents. I just
want her to have our own identityand not be identified by us, yeah,

(17:55):
through us, because we are herparents, and just be hacked.
I think as a mom, asad day for noelh is a sad day
for me. Man. When thatgirl calls me, it's like, Mom,
I'm having the best day. Iwas working on this to day and
everything is life is great. Myday instantly becomes happier. Yeah, because

(18:18):
what she said, I'm sad whenshe's happy, I'm happy all the time.
Yeah, So I just wanted tobe happy. I just want her
to be who she is, walkin her own personal purpose and live her
best life. Yeah. No,I love that for her. And we
watched her grow. I mean,I'm a housewife, sann And we watched
her girl up on the show forsure. And you guys have been on
the show for so long now youleft eleven season eleven season and Wall came

(18:41):
on when she was eight years old. It's that crazy. Now she's twenty
three. Isn't that crazy how thatworks out? Looking back? I can't
even believe he did that. Yeah, but I was about to ask,
I know a few months Gay sayyou will never return, but I know,
you know they were really kind ofthing never. Oh what a minute,
what was the records pregnant? Okay, now I know, I this
is what I said. I alwayssay I'll never say never. Okay,

(19:04):
but I have been saying, notwriting it. M h, not right
now, but I'll never say never. I feel like the Housewives will always
be my home or boy from home. Those crazy ladies will always be my
sisters no matter what we've been throughbecause we I feel like, just for
us to be able to coexist ona show, yeah like that and still

(19:26):
be able to make it out withsome level of respect. Bring John on
the other side, Chow, that'sa sister who those are my sisters call
life? So I you know,my focus is my acting career. However,
you know, I don't know reallyGod my steps. I'm letting God
but my steps, and I willnever say never. Okay. I have
a great relationship with BRABO and NBC, and the reason I've been able to

(19:48):
have so much success and get allthese other opportunities has a lot to do
with the incredible platform of the Housewivesthat I've been able to use for the
past eleven here. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot sense. And
you're saying not right now, thisis twenty twenty four account because I'm assuming
they should be filming this upcoming seasonat some point. What did pop in
last season? Yes, yeah,I popped it, okay. And what

(20:11):
I loved about that is my fanswere excited to see me pop back up
on the screen. Of course,it was fun for the network to actually
let me do a confessional as well, because I just want to do a
couple events. And I love theway they gave me my flowers at eleven
years a being a consistent housewife.I've just rolled me out real nuts to

(20:33):
me. I didn't expect any ofthat, but it just felt to feel
like, all right, that's what'sup. Like a litted a couple of
scenes here there that they brought meout on you did they brought me out?
Okay? You old nasty confession.I loved it. Always a fun
time seeing the confessional. Yeah,that's fantastic. So how's the acting going.
I know we have, we've seensome stuff on your social media,

(20:53):
but what's to come in that space? It's it's going amazing we are God
willing wrapping up this strike soon.Yeah, I'll be able to talk about
it a lot more. But Ido have some amazing projects but I was
able to get in the can beforethe strike that I can't wait to promote
and have you guys check out.But there's one project in particular that I'm

(21:14):
excited about you guys seeing, andit's a movie that I did with my
daughter Noel. Oh well, we'rein the same movie. We didn't do
the litvie together, but we didn'thave any scenes together. So I'm excited
for you guys to see missus Noah, Noel. It was quite a your
little actress. Oh yeah, Iwas even surprised. I was like,
oh wow, you know, butyou know her dad is disturbed lyon thespiandoles
as. She got it honestly,But that was exciting for me, for

(21:37):
us too. It was exciting forus to work on the project together.
And it's gonna be so much funpromoting it together next year. Next year,
I was gonna ask one, canwe expect more about that Celle Town
is year, Yes, so Iknow, talk about acting housewife, let's
talk about the modeling side. Recently, we've seen a lot of people on
the runaway, some Paris Hilton toAngela Bassett of Harpus, Bizarre Serbia.

(22:00):
Yes, oh yes, gorgeous,gorgeous, gorgeous. Would you ever return
in a more serious space to modeling? Runaway or whatever the case may be?
One percent, one thousand percent.At the beginning, for me,
you know, I divide my lifeinto chapters. Act one was Cynthia the
Model, Yes, Act two Cynthiathe reality start and Act three the third
act is Cynthia the actress. Butthey all can work together because that is

(22:25):
all that is me. And asmuch as I love to reinvent myself,
when it comes to modeling, that'sthe one time I don't mind spending the
block. Yes, no, man, I like to spend a block.
Good relationship is yeah or usually thatand then's it. But I feel like,
you know, fashion was always myfirst love. Yeah, it was
my first introduction to you know againAct one Cynthia Bailey the Model, And

(22:51):
I feel like it's important to haverepresentation. Representation is so important to have
women like myself, women I wasa certain age and six years old,
and I honestly look at my oldcovers and my old tear sheets and magazines
for me modeling, and I feelmore beautiful now at fifty six than I
ever did in my twenties and thirties. You ut a full one and a

(23:11):
lot of people look up and inspireto be like Cynthia Bailey, who honestly
shows the real in life, butshows that you can do whatever you set
your mind to. Absolutely. So, what would you like to say to
those women who really are trying tomake it in whatever space they are trying
to take on different industries and soforth. I would say, don't live
in a place of fear. Andone of the things that I love about

(23:34):
just even owning my age and celebrating, you know, getting oga. I
do that because I don't want anywoman to feel like they have to be
defined by their aid. Yeah.I literally started my life all over again
beautiful at fifty five. That's whenI started all over personally and professionally,
transitioning from one career to a newcareer, transitioning from being married to being

(23:57):
single again to being back outside.I feel like you can recreate and reinvent
yourself as many times as you want. Yes, you only get one life.
I said, this is my life. I'm boid to live it my
way and on my terms and justlive my best life. Thank you so
much, Cynthia Baileaf. We're excited. We love what you have going on.
By the way, that Barry Mimosais amazing. Listen, it's very

(24:18):
good, right and good, veryvery very good. And we thank you
Cynthia for joining us. Thank youso much. Thanks Alexandria. The School
of Lifelong Learning at Jackson State Universitywas established in twenty two, twenty one
years ago to provide access to highereducation for non traditional adult learners. And
today we're speaking with doctor Deirdre L. Wheaton, Associate Professor of Interdisciplinary Studies

(24:44):
and Interim Director of the School ofLifelong Learning. Thanks for being with us
today. Thank you for having me. Just when I think I learned something
new every day, there's a schoolfor learning something everyday, Lifelong Learning.
Can you provide an overview of theSchool of Lifelong Learning at Jackson State.
Absolutely so. The School Lifelong Learningis an academic unit that provides coursework to

(25:04):
undergraduate students. We also provide workforcedevelopment for adults who are already in the
workforce but want to upscale or owntheir abilities to perform their jobs effectively.
We also do professional development for teachers, school counselors, and school principles in
partnership with the Mississippi Department of Education. But what we pride ourselves on is

(25:30):
our Professional Eductioninary Studies degree, whichis for undergraduate students, specifically non traditional
students. Now, this degree isthe Professional Interdisciplinary Studies degree. Now,
how does it differ from a traditionaldegree program at Jackson State? That is
a very common question, so thankyou for posing it. The first thing

(25:52):
that I like to say when Itry to explain what's unique about this degree
is to clarify for everyone that everystudent at Jackson State who complete coursework,
especially in the Professional Interuditionary Studies degreeprogram, you earn a traditional Bachelor of
Science degree. It's just like anyother undergraduate degree at Jackson State University.
What differentiates this degree program, however, is that unlike in some more traditional

(26:17):
majors where your coursework is very rigid, like they tell you exactly which classes
you must take, we have amore flexible approach. So we allow students
to decide which courses they want totake in different disciplines so that they can
tailor a unique and individualized academic programthat fits their personal professional and career goals.

(26:40):
Only if that could have happened forme in college. I want to
pick the studies that I want totake to advance myself. That's a very
flexible program. We're talking with doctorDeirdra Wheaton, Associate Professor of Interdisciplinary Studies.
She's also the interim director of theSchool of Lifelong Learning. We're talking
about the the School of Lifelong Learningand the flexibility of the study. Anything

(27:04):
more you want to say about howflexible the program is? Oh? Absolutely
so. One of the ways Ilike to kind of describe this is if
you imagine that if you think abouta traditional undergraduate program, after you finish
your freshman and sophomore level courses andyou get into your junior and senior year,
you have, like I said before, all of these required courses that
you have to take. Well,in our degree program, there are really

(27:26):
only six major courses that everyone isrequired to complete. After that, the
rest of your degree program can beorganized around two disciplinary options, so you'll
take twelve credits and two different minorsalmost and then you get a twenty seven
hour professional concentration. So, forexample, if I were, let's just

(27:48):
say, interested in being an educationalconsultant when I graduate, well, I
might take some classes in education andsome classes in business and some classes in
communications in order to make sure thatthe coursework that I have is putting me
on the pathway to the career thatI want to pursue. I think that
is probably one of the most importantthings about the flexibility of this program.
Those six courses that all of ourmajors take are really designed to help instill

(28:14):
some key twenty first century competencies thatare transferable across career fields. So we
look at research skills, leadership skillsof course, digital literacy and communications,
project management and teamwork, all ofthose key skills that are going to be
relevant no matter what career a studentdecides to go into. That is very

(28:36):
flexible. So someone changes course ofwhat they want to do, they're covered
by this degree program absolutely, andthat's what you are We look for.
People change careers a lot these days, so it can be very, very
very useful. We're talking with doctord Durel Wheaton, School of Lifelong Learning
at Jackson State University. Now,what would you say is the ideal professional
interdisciplinary studies students quite a few peoplethat this program is really really excellent for.

(29:03):
So, if you're a student ata community college and you're getting ready
to transfer to a four year institution, because of the flexibility, our program
is ideal for community college transfer studentsbecause we can't accept a lot of those
community college credits for working adults.So if you have some college credits,
maybe you started at a university orcommunity college a long time ago, but
life happened and you are not ableto complete. We are here and designed

(29:25):
specifically to accept a lot of thoseold credits and apply them toward helping you
to complete your undergraduate degree. Ifyou're a non traditional student, so maybe
you have worked your entire life andyou never even thought about pursuing an undergrad
degree. If you don't have anycollege credits, we can work with you
and start from fresh freshman year andhelp you navigate the college experience as a

(29:48):
non traditional student. If you're inthe workforce right and you're ready or you
think that you're ready to reachtool peoplecan kind of tell as industries change,
getting an undergraduate degree to change careersor to position yourself for promotion is an
excellent step to take to remain competitivein a increasingly diverse and changing workforce.

(30:08):
I would say any student, likewhether you're traditional or non traditional, if
you have started an undergraduate degree butdidn't finish it, we're here to help
you complete where you started. Wehave a few people who fit this demographic,
but we are seeing an increasing numberof people who have retired from their
careers, but they want to keeptheir minds sharp, so they'll come back

(30:29):
into this program, take some coursesand just kind of explore opportunities for doing
new things. So any of thosestudents would be perfect, perfect, perfect,
and ideal for entering into this undergraduateprogram. What a great program.
So a retiree who wants to continuelearning can jump right into this absolutely.
And the good thing about it isif you don't want to seek a degree,

(30:51):
right because that is a pretty bigcommitment. We also have access to
fully online to go program. Soyou just wanted to take a class and
photograph or pottery or computer skills,we give you a pathway to do that
without the commitment, the financial commitment, and the time commitment of doing a
full degree program. So we haveall kinds of opportunities for learning and development.

(31:14):
That's designed to help strengthen the workforceand help people to achieve their personal,
professional and academic goals. We aretalking with doctor Deirdre Whek, Associate
Professor of Interdisciplinary Studies and interim Directorof the School of Lifelong Learning, and
how can prospective students learn more aboutthe School of Lifelong Learning. I would
say that the best way to learna little bit more about our program is

(31:36):
to just check out our website wwwdot jsums dot edu slash life Learning,
and you'll find all of our contactinfo for our faculty and our staff.
We're absolutely here, ready and willingand able to help you navigate the process
of being admitted and seeking financial assistanceto continue your higher education at Jackson State

(31:59):
Universe. It sounds like something whereyou get a bachelor's degree and certificates to
go along with it. Primarily ouremphasis is on the bachelor's degree, but
we do have other opportunities for peopleto earn continuing education units, so we
do workshops and things such as that. So absolutely both of those things are
pathways to professional development that we offerhere in next School Lifelong Learning. Fantastic

(32:21):
stuff. Doctor Deirdre Wheaton, AssociateProfessor of Interdisciplinary Studies and she's the interim
director of the School of Lifelong Learning. Thank you for talking with us and
giving us this great information. Willgive out more information on your website to
make sure they can get in contactwith this great program at Jackson State University.
Thanks for your time and information today. Thank you so much. I
really appreciate this opportunity. Now.Erica Campbell has her third studio solo album

(32:45):
out called I Love You, andin this week's Gospel Truth, she talks
to im Ed Gordon about music lifeand what it means to obey God.
All right, thanks Mike. Yes, we have the one and only,
the legendary Miss Erica Campbell in thebuilding with us. How you doing.
I'm doing good. Thank you forhaving me. That is great. This
is like family reunion here you gotmy birrel Misty with you. Then this

(33:07):
is just it feels good to bein the same place with you yet again.
New album out. We're we're gonnaget this, you know, the
particulars out the way and then we'regonna delve deeper into it. New album
out. This is your third soloalbum. Yes, I Love You album
I Love You. Can we talkabout because music is so different now,

(33:28):
yes, albums. You've been puttingout singles for a while now, Yeah,
what is it like to have thethird solo out? It's amazing.
It's been eight years. I feellike I've been working on this album for
at least five definitely since twenty nineteen, before the pandemic. You know,
we were talking about it, gettingready for it, and then you know,
all that happened in the world gotturned upside down. But in that

(33:49):
time, growing more confident in myself, my gifts, my talents, who
God is, who he's been listeningto him, hearing him and then singing
that I heard correctly, watching myfamily grow, my daughter in college and
my two youngest doing things. It'sjust been This record is for me.
It oozes love, love for myself, for God, God's love for me

(34:12):
even in difficult situations. And soa lot of gratefulness, a lot of
thankfulness, and I'm just excited tofinally be here, be having meetings and
zoom meetings with my team and whatare we doing and where are we going
and how are we gonna let theworm out? So the fact that I'm
actually here is really really great.I think it's so exciting for me to
see you in this space because it'slike I've seen you in I've been around

(34:32):
you in different times of your life, whether it be chaotic or you know,
peaceful or you know, you know, the reality show part of your
life. There's been so many differentvariations of Erica and literally over the last
seven years, so many things havecome at you, whether it be testing
you or things like that. Whathas that like been for you. I've

(34:55):
spent many years saying that I'll walkthrough whatever door God has for me.
And God has opened some interesting doors, some scary doors, some doors where
you look in and it's black whenyou get in there. But if he
tells me to do it, I'lldo it. I trust him that much
because I've seen the other side ofnot following him, trying to do it

(35:15):
my own win, trying to configure, trying to make my own put my
own life pieces together. Oh,I'll do this and this will work,
and then that will work. Andthen you do all that and it doesn't
turn out you know, the wayyou want it, And so over this
time, from losing managers, gainingmanagers Mary Mary to Erica Campbell, I

(35:36):
had Zaiah in that time becoming asolo artist, the radio show, the
TV you know, the book,the church. All those things were happening.
And if the blessings of the Lordmake it rich and add no sorrow,
if I look at it as ablessing, then I have to process
it and see it different. Right. So Church, that's a blessing.
Family book. All those things wereblessing. But they didn't come without challenges,

(36:00):
right, But I would, Iwould honestly say, and I still
do this to this day. God, this is your stuff. Hmm.
What you want me to do?How am I handling this? You placed
this in my lap, you gaveme this talent? What do you want
me to do for you? I'mlistening, I'm paying attention. If you
tell me to stop, I will, If you tell me to move,
I will. And so I alwaystry to put myself in the position to

(36:20):
hear what God is saying. Well, speaking of that, you have a
song off your new album that's calledTrust No Bay. Yes, I want
to play a little bit of itright now that people take a listen to
it, and then when you comeback around, I want to talk about
the song and what, Yes,what's this I hear? I can hear
it so clear, speaking right intomy soul, telling me things I should

(36:47):
already No open ways are too hotto go trystan okay, truststand okay not
he will just say I must doit your way. Trust stand should trust?

(37:22):
That was trust and obey or Campbellfor a brand new album, I
love you and trust and obey.I hear you, I hear it is
something that when you grow up inchurch, trust and obey. For someone
like me, when it comes totrust and obey, the question for me
is obey what? Because? Because? Because? Because it's like trust and

(37:45):
obey because I feel like within ourselvesthere's a battle. Even when you have
Christ in your life and things likethat, you have to be able to
filter out the noise that are youobeying Him or are you obeying your your
guttural human bless you feelings. Yes, So when you say trust and obey,
what are you obeying? Hereic Campbell, I am trusting God. I'm

(38:06):
trusting his word. A lot oftimes our trust is filtered through how we
feel. So if it includes someoneelse, sometimes trusting that you're making the
right decision, even if it willbe be harmful for them or mean for
them, we don't make those decisionsbecause they're going to think, but it
may one thousand percent be the rightdecision. Say someone has to leave a

(38:27):
church or or leave a job orwhatever. You have to trust that God
has opened a door and you justhave to be honest and pay attention to
yourself. A lot of times wespend so much time rationalizing and you know,
well I shouldn't because well they didn'tmean it, and I wasn't,
you know, on all those things. I remember going through a breakup,
nice guy, church, god,you know, father was a pastor,

(38:47):
worked in music, all those thingsthat made sense on paper and to the
people around me. But there wassomething inside that said, this isn't it.
I already had the ring, andI said, Lord, you told
me to trust you with all myheart and not to my own understanding.
Right. That's where we get introuble, our own understanding, our own
perspective, our own emotions, ourown feeling. It's a trust him right,

(39:10):
and he will direct my path right. And one version says he'll make
your paths straight. And so asI begin to say that over and over,
Okay, I'm trusting you, Ieventually called it off. I eventually
gave the ring back. I eventuallylet my cousin in New York use that
dress and we went on to marrysomebody else and we've been married twenty two

(39:30):
years. It's not a bad right, I've been all right, not a
bad guy. But most women it'schurch, it'll be okay. No,
he's fine. And then if youhave people around you, we can't even
have time to going to church's obsessionwith marriage. But that's a whole other
subject for a different day. Buta lot of people walk into bad situations
because they are speaking from their emotion. You really have to get your emotion

(39:52):
out of the way. And ifyou look in the word, he really
is clear on so many things,whether it's business, contracts, emotional things,
so many things. Am I?Am I selfish? Or self serving?
Like? Is this? What isthis? What is it rooted in?
Insecurity? Is it rooted in fear? Is it rooted in anger?
Are is that me? Are thosethings that's in the way. That's a

(40:12):
tough part for me. And sothe question I have for you to follow
that is what do you hear whenyou know it's God and it's not you?
Because I think the problem that weall of us have is we think
we're listening to God, but it'swhat we want for ourselves. And sometimes
the two can be the same,yes, but sometimes the two can be
different. Yes, But how doyou know? Like like for me,
I tell people all the time,when God speaks to me, it has

(40:35):
to be loud. It has tobe where it's just like, dummy,
Yo, this is it. Ican't spell this out no of the way.
I don't take small. I can't. I don't. I'm small.
Don't work for me. It hasto be loud and crashing for you.
It got to be loud and crashingversus like, oh I see it.
Two things in mind. First,I would say, God, is is
it bigger dreamer than me? Sousually what he's calling me to do,

(41:00):
he is kind of impossible on myside, okay, right, Usually he's
like when I started the radio show, I was like, I live in
LA. Got to real, howin the world am I gonna do this?
I listened, But we make ithappen, and I believe that it
was a God assignment in my life, but it was much bigger than me.
I said yes to it because myhusband was like, no, we
need to do this. And thenThe side too of that is why do

(41:22):
we make God have to prove themselvesto us? If we believe that he's
God, and he's sovereign and he'sin control, why do we say,
God, give me five signs?Why can't God speak once? And we
listened the first time. I gotto make sure it ain't me. So
then that means you don't know hisvoice. Well, if your wife came
outside that door and said something,you would recognize her voice absolutely. But

(41:42):
if you don't recognize his voices,that hammers at you. Right. I
heard I was in a grocery storeand I heard somebody go, I'm two
miles over, and I said,that's my dad. I knew how he
cleared his throat, and I wentto two miles over and my dad was
in the room in the grocery store, and I said, God, I
want to know your voice like thatif you whisper. There's a line in

(42:05):
my song I was saying, Idon't have to holler. I can say
dear Jesus to Jesus, dear Jesus, I don't have to holler. You
hear me regardless. He hears mewhen I speak out loud, and he
hears my heart and I want tobe able to hear him that way too.
I want to build my relationship withhim where I have I can trust
his track worker. I can lookat his word and what he said and
what he's done and go that don'tlook like God to me. You know

(42:25):
what I'm saying. And if I'mgetting it wrong, I love the Holy
Spirit will always guide me the rightway. You'll get some type of confirmation
message, something that will it willshow up. God has been showing up
in my life this year in crazyways. My daughter's going viral from a
video that will put out in twentyseventeen, and the calls that followed that
video, Me and my husband aregoing, what is what is going on?

(42:49):
You know what I mean? Butit's so cool. But it lines
up with the prophecy that I got. Somebody said, prepare yourself for this
in the season. Prepare your childrenfor this in the season, prepare your
family for this in the season.I didn't know what they were talking about,
right, and then I get totwenty twenty three and I'm going,
oh, what I'm preparing? Right? I didn't have to say, well,
God, are you sure? Well? Maybe they lied I just trust
and live. I'm a very carefree person. I kind of go with

(43:14):
the flow. I don't, youknow, I don't know. It'll go
wrong or it'll go right. Period. You know, anything else is useless.
I think to sit there and toilover because you can't change what the
outcome will be, no matter howhard you try. But I think,
I like what you said is thatonce you've made the decision, whether it's
the wrong decision or the right decision, it'll find a way to say,
is this is not what I wantedyou to do? Yeah, like this

(43:36):
is all right? Keep going exactlywhere you're supposed to be in And I
know I've seen that in my life, you know, But it's just like
I'm the guy that's like I fromIt's fine. My father would always say
to us when in doubt, don'tI remember, you know, as me
and Tina and my other sisters weregetting out of high school and going into
college, and you know, shouldI go away? Should I stay here?

(43:57):
Should I just stay at the churchand serve at the church? Am
I supposed to be other place?He said, when in doubt, don't
don't jump and move, don't jumpand make a decision. And I remember,
I'm not sure where I got thisanalogy, but I just imagined a
storm, right, and everything's blowingand it's and you've got an umbrella,
and the umbrella's going, but yougot five boxes and you're trying to move
in the middle of the storm.That person would look crazy, right right,

(44:19):
We do that in our lives.Things go upside down, You get
into a big argument, and youmake a decision right there, and a
lot of times, let the dustsettle first, right, if it's really
what you want to do, letthat feeling settle. I don't like to
move when i'm when it's when it'swhen it's up and it's as I'm like,
let me just let me, letme dig my feet in the sand
for a minute, let me dealwith the wind, let me deal with

(44:39):
the rain and the storm. Andwhen the storm is over, then I'm
going to make a decision. Youknow, how did I get through the
storm? How did the people aroundme operate in this storm? Let me
take a look back, let melet me check the let me check the
tape what happened? And then Imake a decision. I don't I don't
make the decisions in storms. II all of that makes a lot of
sense to me, which is Iapprec she ate the answer, and you

(45:00):
know, I want to go tobat You're talking about your daughter, your
children, yes, and talking aboutyou, and you know you're and Tina
leaving high school going to college makingdecisions. Your daughter is she's going to
Spelman, Yes, all the wayacross the whole country. Jesus being in
Atlanta right now, and and andseeing like I've had some friends who daughters

(45:20):
graduated from Spelman recently, and Ijust see the whole pompus. I'm like,
this is a four day event.What is this? This? It
is crazy? What is that likebeen for you? Because I've seen the
videos of her coming home and it'slike, hey mommy, I got I
gotta go hang out with my friends, and was like, whole word,
right, really right, you're kickingme to the curve. I think I
did the whole topic on that,kicking your parents are the curve? What
was what was that like? Soyeah, talk to me just about having

(45:45):
a young adult as a as achild, your child being a young adult
being her own person, because thatwas the thing about being in college once
you left, that was I toldyou all the time, going to college
is being on your own. Thatwas the biggest lesson outside the classes and
the courses. It was being onmy own, taking care of bills.
Even if my mom was send memoney, I was taking care of bills,

(46:07):
learning how to live with other peopledeal. That is the life lessons
that you get more from college thananything else. So what is that like
for you to have that person leaveand come back and probably a different person.
If I could be honest, ifChrista said Mammy, I want to
come home, I'd go, okay. My husband would say no, right.
I love Krista. We have agreat relationship, and it is challenging

(46:27):
to go from parenting to hands oncoaching to mentoring. You know, as
they get older, you can givethem suggestions, but it becomes their decision.
If you have followed the scripture,train up a child in the way
they should go, and when theyare old, they will not depart.
They'll always come back. I rememberwhen I first started dating Warren and he

(46:49):
was still working and you know alot of R and B and hip hop,
and he was playing for Brandy.So I had gone on the road
to sing background with Brandy. Andwhen I came back. We were sitting
in front of the house, andhe said, you know, I just
feel like this guy is really tryingto pull you into the secular world and
into R and B. And Iwas like, Dad, he's not.
You know. He had grew upin church, his father was pastor,
but he just he had a badexperience and just wasn't doing church at all

(47:13):
when I first met him, whichwas a sin in Red Flash and all
the church people. I knew growingup to kach It that there was something
beautiful about him. I knew thatthere was something warm in his heart.
I knew that in my soul thatthere was something wonderful about him. And
so I sat with my father andI said, do you think you did
a good job as a father?And he said, what do you mean?

(47:34):
I said, do you think youequipped me and taught me everything that
I was supposed to know, likehow to pray and make good decisions?
And he said yeah. I said, well, then don't trust me,
trust you, Oh, trust thatyou gave me everything I needed. And
our relationship was very different from thatday because he did, you know what
I mean, spent many a wasspent many days praying around the bed,

(47:58):
spent many days being reprimand and gettingin trouble for certain things. The demand
on you better get good gradest.You know, I don't care how much
you sing it, how much yougoing to church, you better bring some
good grades. All those things thatrequired something of me while I was still
busy but really prepared me for this. So that's what I'm trying to do
with Christa. I'm trusting the prayers, the prayer meetings, and it's really
difficult to not even get emotional whenI talk about my kids because I work

(48:22):
and I travel a lot, andI was like, Lord, these are
my kids, though, you know, and I believe that He gave me
the family that I need for theministry that I need. I believe they
have the mama that they need forthe ministry and the life that they're going
to go into. And so wehave a great relationship. We talk about
everything, even the difficult stuff.I don't run away from messes. I
don't demonize and vilify them for certainthings. I'm very clear on what I

(48:45):
don't like. You know, Idon't like that you're doing that. I'm
not on board with it. Butwhen you stand before God, he won't
ask you what Mama said? Whatare you going to say to God?
I don't want you to not doit because you're going to get in trouble,
which you will get in trouble.But after you get in trouble me
in the end of time, whenyou go stand before God, what you're
gonna say? Got you? EricGamble? What is your gospel truth?

(49:06):
My gospel truth that I love Godand He loves me and nobody can change
that. It's a Black Information Network, Mike, back to you. Thanks
mad There's a black woman running formayor for an historic southern coastal island town
with a pepperate history of slavery.Hey, this is Doug Davis and for
the first time, the historic townof Tybee Island in Georgia has an African

(49:29):
American woman running for mayor. Hername is Julia Pierce. She's a Spelman
College graduate and a retired healthcare professionaland has lived on Tybee for over twenty
five years. Tybe is located justoff the historic city of Savannah, Georgia.
Julia, welcome here to the BlackInformation Network. Thank you, Thank
you Jess for having me appreciate you. Now, before we get started,

(49:50):
there are a lot of Black historyfacts centered on Tybee Island. Can you
share a little bit of history thatyou know about the island in relation to
enslaved Africa? Sure, Kybee Island, you know, it's quite interesting.
Kybe means salt, is a NativeAmerican word for salt. We're talking about
in seventeen eighty two, the GeneralAssembly of Georgia, this is before Georgia

(50:16):
was a stake. They said,because of the frequent importation of Negroes into
our province, there needs to bea lodging, and so they build a
thing called a Lazaretta. Anybody whoremembers their Sunday school lesson Lazarus was Married's
brother. And the shortest passage inthe Bible is Jesus wept. Jesus was

(50:37):
weeping because they were crying over Lazarus. But of course Christ brought Lazarus back
to life. So the Lazareth hasto do with coming across that water.
Sometimes it would be forty six weeksand they would come through the Middle Passage
and they would need to be revived. They need a place to rest,
a place to get ready to gointo Savannah. Because if the enslaves lived

(51:01):
they would be sold at city marketin Savannah. And if the enslave died,
and thousands of them died, theirbodies are left in the mud here
at Tybee Island. There's no marker. No, there's nothing, there's nothing
there. We have contacted the federalgovernment, which is a Fort Pulaski National

(51:22):
Park. They have a Confederate monumentup and we're asking them to do the
same with the enslaved people, toput up a marker. And so we
talked to them. We talked tothe counting and we talked to the state,
and of course we talked to thelocal city and so we are making
inroads, we hope. But thisis a history they don't want to talk

(51:45):
about. This is a tourist place, but we know about historic tourism,
meaning you have people who will travelin order to get this history. And
we have connected Tybee Island with theCape Coast Ghana Door of No Return because
we know that the place of CapeCoast Ghana is a demarkation from leaving Africa

(52:07):
coming to the America. So wewanted to make that full circle and we've
been able to do that with ourorganization called Tybee Melt beautiful, beautiful.
So after you retired, what madeyou want to decide to run for mayor
of Tybee Island. Tybee has alwayshad white men as mayors always. We

(52:27):
have a beautiful white woman right nowwho is the mayor, and she's done
a great job. But she saidthat she wasn't going to run again.
So that left the door open.She wasn't gonna run again. And so
I went to her actually, andI said, you know, I'm thinking
about running. If you're not goingto run. Brian doesn't have any opposition.
His name is Brian Way. Andso she said, Julia, you
would make a fine men. Ihave a lot of respect for Shirley.

(52:51):
So I said I would. That'swhat I'm gonna do. I went in
and what was interesting about it isI took a picture of my grandfather.
I guess it's my great grandfather becausein nineteen twenty three he left Lagrange,
Georgia as part of a great migration, going to Aliquippa, Pennsylvania, looking
for work because he could not votein Lagrange, Georgia. That's exactly one

(53:12):
hundred years ago. Because here weare, you know, if you fall,
I'm saying nineteen twenty three. Herewe are in twenty twenty three,
and I said, this is good. I'm going to actually run for mayor
of this small Georgia town because heleft a small Georgia town looking for equality.
How are you being perceived in acommunity that has less than three percent
black people. We had a forumlast night and it went very very well.

(53:38):
There was three people running, twowhite gentlemen and myself, and I
was very well received in the audiencebecause you know, we go without any
pretense. I tell them that thisis a big curve for you because you've
only had white men to vote for. But I'm giving you an option,
and this option is something that weshould take into consideration because we're getting ready

(54:01):
to go into twenty thirty, meaningthe next mayor will be mayor of the
island until twenty twenty eight, gettingready to bring us into twenty thirty.
And how are you going to bea city so narrow minded when we are
the playground of Georgia. We're anisland, but Georgia comes to us,

(54:22):
and Georgia is a very diverse state. We just happened to be primarily white.
So real quick, real quick,when you said that, I mean,
first off, I want to giveyou super props for addressing you know,
folks at the forum the way youdid. You came straight ahead,
You didn't, you know, holdanything back technically, of course you were

(54:44):
a professional, but you told thempretty much what it is. How did
they receive you after you said that? That's what I want to know.
What kind of reaction did they giveyou? I got applause, I got
applause, Meaning you have people whoreally would like to see somebody in color
in the office who is competent tohandle it. Because we have issues that
cross borders, you know, wehave we have an issue called Orange Crush

(55:08):
that happens once a year here onTybee. It is African American college students
spring break. Well, it hasmorphed into more than that because now has
gotten so big and there is acriminal element that follows these young people when
they've been coming for thirty years,and the island always gets very anxious about

(55:30):
this. And like I'm telling them, is that what we need is to
build relationships, meaning we need tobuild relationship with social media, with historic
black institutions, with the NAACP,with youth in Savannah, so that when
these young people come out, Weembrace that, have something for them to

(55:51):
do, not just you know,say oh oh, we're being invaded.
So just trying to get solutions,and so I think people are open for
that. I really do. Nowwhether or not I'll be elected, we
won't know until November seventh, butwe'll say I love your attitude. What
are some of the other important issuesthat residents are talking about and that you
know, you feel you can bethe solution to help solve some of those

(56:14):
problems? Sure? Sure, well, we got a water issue. We
need our own deep well. Rightnow, we're using the Florida Aqua further
to supply our water. We haveone million point six gallons of water during
a busy day here on the IslandWest. How much water we use,
and so we have to be consciousabout as we go into the next millennium

(56:35):
of twenty thirty, how we aregoing to supply water. I'm saying that
we need a water plant, weneed a treatment water plant, and that's
that's pricey, but we can dothat hotel motel taxes, we'll be able
to put in one, but wehave to pay attention to that. So
that's that's an issue we have onour island, a charter school. I'm
real concerned about the charter school becausethey get Chatham County dollars, but they

(56:59):
look nothing like Chatham County, meaningit looks like a private white school.
It's a very very good school,very good school, but the city gives
them money. The county and givesthem money, so they should look like
the county. They should be morediverse, and so working with them to
make sure that they have a diverseeducation for the children. So those are

(57:20):
issues that cross over lines that peopleI think can have common ground on and
to understand. Gotcha, and arethose the issues that are anchoring your platform
to run for mayor what's important toyou? What is it that you want
to provide the inhabitants of Tybee Islandthat no one else could come close to
touching? Well, I think thatI provide Tybee Islands with the understanding of

(57:45):
institutional because I've been here now twentyseven years, and in that twenty seven
years, we've gone through a lotof changes and being able to remember and
recount the changes we've gone through andwhy we have a thirty five foot height.
We put that in effect because wewould like to keep the small town
feel of the island. We don'twant to high rises on our island,

(58:07):
so we have that forty yard techback. So when you get ready to
build a house, you have tohave some green space around your property.
So I happen to be married toan environmentalist who was on council for ten
years, and so we try topay attention to our environment. So I
bring not only diversity to the officeand also what we're doing with the environment.

(58:30):
Julia Peers, thank you so much. Well. I appreciate you giving
me the platform to speak. Ireally really do appreciate that, and they
could reach out if they want totalk to me. I'm at TYBMLK at
gmail dot com and we appreciate theinterest. Are you on social media?
Yes, yes, I'm on socialmedia. You can go to Facebook.

(58:52):
Julia Pierce is put in Tybee JuliaPeers all right, Julia Peers, thank
you so much. She's running formayor of the historic beachtown Tybee Island.
Thank you for sharing that history too. I know our audience will definitely benefit
from from hearing that information. Thisis Doug Davis. You're listening to the
Black Information Network and the Black Perspective. Thanks Doug for more on these stories.

(59:15):
Listen to the Black Information Network onthe free iHeartRadio app or log onto
binnews dot com where you can hearthis program and its entirety on demand.
Also follow us on social media atBlack Information Network and on x formerly known
as Twitter. At black info Net, we thank you for joining us on

(59:35):
the Black Perspective and look forward tocontinuing to have needed conversations for the black
community. Next week, I'm MikeIsland on the Black Information Network.